November 11, 2025 • 56 mins
GS#1025 This week we reconnect with John Sabino, who shares his remarkable journey of playing the Top 100 golf courses in the world, culminating in his experience at Augusta National. John reflects on his time playing with Masters champions, the lessons learned from the Augusta experience, and the insights he gained while writing his book, 'The Augusta Principles.' The conversation delves into the meticulous attention to detail at Augusta, the impact of Cliff Roberts on the Masters' legacy, and how these principles can be applied to all type of businesses. John also shares his personal story of overcoming leukemia and how the Masters played a significant role in his recovery.
This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker with over 300+ locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to warbypaker.com/golfsmarter right now to try on any pair virtually!
This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is sponsored by HIMS. Start your free online visit today HIMS.com/golfsmarter and received personalized ED treatment options.
This episode is brought to you by Policygenius. Secure your family’s future at Policygenius.com to compare free life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save.
This episode is also brought to you by Taelor, an award-winning menswear rental subscription service. Visit taelor.style and get 25% OFF your first month of men's clothing subscription with our exclusive code GOLFSMARTER.
If you have a question about whether or not Fred is using any of the methods, equipment or apps we’ve discussed, or if you’d like to share a comment about what you’ve heard in this or any other episode, please write because Fred will get back to you. Either write to golfsmarterpodcast@gmail.com or click on the Hey Fred button, at golfsmarter.com
This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker with over 300+ locations to help you find your next pair of glasses. You can also head over to warbypaker.com/golfsmarter right now to try on any pair virtually!
This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is sponsored by HIMS. Start your free online visit today HIMS.com/golfsmarter and received personalized ED treatment options.
This episode is brought to you by Policygenius. Secure your family’s future at Policygenius.com to compare free life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save.
This episode is also brought to you by Taelor, an award-winning menswear rental subscription service. Visit taelor.style and get 25% OFF your first month of men's clothing subscription with our exclusive code GOLFSMARTER.
If you have a question about whether or not Fred is using any of the methods, equipment or apps we’ve discussed, or if you’d like to share a comment about what you’ve heard in this or any other episode, please write because Fred will get back to you. Either write to golfsmarterpodcast@gmail.com or click on the Hey Fred button, at golfsmarter.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, I'm Bob NIS's from cold Spring, Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I golf at aj Jolly Golf Course in Alexandria, Kentucky.
Welcome to Golf Smarter.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Hi. This is Bob Cordero from Haverford, Pennsylvania, and I
play at the Shore Club in Kate May Courthouse, New Jersey.
This is Golf's Smarter Number one twenty five.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
The Masters has these limited edition garden Nomes. They're about
a foot toll in classic Masters fashion. They don't tell
you a lot of things about what goes on behind
the scenes. They don't tell you how many of them
they issue per year. But I tell a story where
as a millennial he lives in suburban Georgia, bought the
garden Nome. The first year it was thirty nine dollars
(00:47):
and fifty cents in twenty sixteen. He sold it in
twenty twenty four for eighty nine hundred dollars. So that
tells you number one, Anything with a Master's logo on
it is worth something. You can travel anywhere in the
world and people know what the Master's logo is about.
But it also it's one of the ten principles I
talk about in the book how do you use scarcity
(01:08):
to create value? They've perfected that you can only buy
their things seven days a year in person.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I dream the world could be more like the Masters.
With author of the Augusta Principles, John Sabino, this is
Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf
minds to help you lower your score and raise your
golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to
(01:39):
the Golf Smarter podcast. John.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Hello, Fred, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Thank you for reaching out again. Now it's interesting I'm saying,
welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast, but you haven't
been on since two thousand and eight and episode one
hundred and fifty nine, and the listeners that were that
were here back then, and there are some you may remember.
We never learned John's name. He was anonymous at the
(02:09):
time because he was on episode number fifty two in
two thousand and six, episode number one hundred and eight
in two thousand and seven, and then episode one fifty
nine in two thousand and eight, and what we were
doing at the end of each year you had I
don't know how you found me, but it was early
on in podcasting days, and you reached out to me
(02:31):
to say, I'm trying to play the best golf courses
in the world, the top one hundred courses, and so
you gave us a recap of your year of what
you were doing. And I do distinctly remember in two
thousand and eight, I think it was you felt like
there was one course you would never get to.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
That true. That's it took me. Uh it took me,
I think twelve years to play the top ninety nine
in the world, and it took me another three or
four to get on Augusta. But I had given up.
I thought, okay, ninety nine is pretty good. I had
been to the Masters and walked the course. That's pretty
close sort of ninety nine and a half. But then,
(03:17):
out of the blue, to the company I worked for,
they invited the CEO to play, but luckily there was
a board meeting that week and he couldn't go. So
he called my boss, who lives in Charlotte, but he
had played it already, and he did the most gracious
thing anybody could do, and he said, well, John needs
(03:38):
to play. Let's give it to John. And that's how
I got on and I ended up.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Did they know you were going? You were your quest
to get it?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
They knew about it, Yeah, it was. It was widely known.
That was a different company. The reason I came on
your podcasts anonymous before is the company I worked for
at the time, Morgan Stanley, didn't really want any publicity,
you know, they were very shy on everything. But when
I worked for Capitol One, which is where I got
(04:08):
the invite to Augusta, they didn't. They didn't care as
much about that, and I ended up. Yeah, I ended
up playing. That was the last course I played, obviously,
and I played with Marco Mera the day before the
Masters in twenty thirteen. Yeah, it was. It was quite
an event. And we played on the front nine Mark
(04:32):
and I played alone, and then on the we were
going and on the tenth tee Jose Maria Olthabo came
off the practice putting green and said, oh, do you
guys mind if I join you? And Mark said, it's
okay with me. Let's see if John wants you to
join or not. So he turned to me and he said,
is it okay if John joins? And what am I
(04:55):
going to say? Fred, Like, Yeah, we're in a groove here. Mark,
let's just keep going. So I played the back nine
with two Masters champions and it was phenomenal because they're friends,
and you know, there was a very comfortable pairing and
they would each drop a ball on different greens and say,
when I won the Masters, here's the pot I had
(05:16):
on thirteen, and they recreated shots for me. It was
there's only one way to end a quest, to do
what I was doing, and that's the way I did.
I tell people now, I'm probably the only golfer maybe
in the world that doesn't want to play Augusta because
nothing I could do with top the experience I had.
(05:36):
So if I ever got invited again, I would I
would pay it forward and invite a couple of my friends. Yeah,
I have a living you wanted hand up the others
drop out, Fred, I'll slought you in Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, you know, Morgan Stanley. You know they didn't want
the publicity. They also probably would have to get a
team of lawyers and compliance people to make sure that
you didn't say anything. I was like, so, yeah, but
you wanted to remain Yeah, you had to remain anonymous
by being on the podcast. But you were so nice
to come back but then you disappeared. I reached out
(06:15):
to you and I never heard from you again. So yeah,
well that was pretty awesome. We got three years. I
wonder whatever happened, and your name came up to me
in twenty ten when I was playing at Harding Park
with the two crazy Kiwis.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's right, yeah, Jamie, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, Michael and Jamie. So these kids were traveling around
the world and we're going to play a different course
for three hundred and sixty five days in a row
yep and circumvent the planet Untilda and play golf. And
they did it. And so when they stopped in San Francisco,
I played with them at Harding Park and they told
(06:56):
me that they played with you, and they told told
me your name was John. I'm like, I didn't know that.
He's like, what do you mean he never told me
his name? When I asked, He's like, no, I can't
really tell you.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I'll just tell you my stories, but that's all I
can do. Yeah, Yeah, they were fun.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Where did you play with them?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I believe it or not. In Melbourne in Australia. I
met them. I was playing Walton Heath and I think
one of the cat He said, oh, you have to
meet these guys. So I met them down there. We
played a couple of holes, and then when they were
coming through the US, I played with them. I hosted
them in New Jersey a couple of times and helped
them out getting on different courses where I could. Yeah,
(07:39):
they were they were I forget how well, maybe twenty
three at the time, and I told them they were
going to ruin their lives. They picked too early. You can't, Like,
that's right. Think about think about how great that is
to play golf for sixty five days in a row.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
But you got to be twenty three to have that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Exactly that, yeah, exactly, just go.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Out every single day. It's like, couldn't do it today.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I couldn't either. My back couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, absolutely not, absolutely not. But I'm curious. I'm going
to go back to Augusta in the time that you
played with two Masters champions. Yep, how was your game
at the time.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It wasn't bad. I shot to my handicap. The highlight
of the round was I played amen corner and even parr.
I parted eleven. I birdied twelve, which is one of
those iconic holes in the world where you think about
if there's holes you want a birdie, you know, Cyprus
point sixteen, TPC Saws seventeen, you know, with the water.
(08:40):
But Augustus twelfth is pretty high up on that list.
And then I bogied thirteen. So yeah, I played to
my handicap. You know, Mark was very gracious. You're extremely
nervous when you play Augusta under any conditions, of course,
So on the first two holes he played the members
teas with me instead of playing the proteas, just to
(09:00):
sort of, you know, help me get into the situation
and make sure I wasn't too nervous, which I was.
But I hit the first fairway, I parted the second hole, Yeah,
I did, Okay, I played to my handicap. The greens
are insane, They're extremely difficult, and they were tournament speed.
Like on eighteen, I hit above the hole and I
(09:21):
just tapped the pot to try to get it to
the hole, and it ran off the front of the
green and then Jose Maria comes up and it drops
the ball and he says, there's just nothing you could do.
There's no speed you could hit it to stop it.
He goes. The lesson is you just can't be above
some of these holes. So yeah, it was. It was
really interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So what's the difference between the members teas and the proteas.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
The members teas, I think are sixty six hundred, and
god knows what the what the proteins are these days,
probably seventy four or seventy five hundred. They keep lengthening it,
but yeah, sixty six hundred is manageable for the average golfer,
which I was at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Is it true that you cannot post or the course
is not rated?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
It doesn't have a slope rating, that's correct, it doesn't
have it. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So you just it's just a story you get to tell.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Just a great round of golf that you remember forever,
but you can't post the score.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right, and it lasts and the story lasts longer than
your twenty rounds exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And I'm still telling people that I birdied twelve. So
thanks for giving me the opportunity to do it again.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Oh absolutely, I'm going to give you a lot of
opportunities to brag about this because it's such an amazing story.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
And just wait, when you were saying you were playing
your handicap, Come on, give me more than that.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
My handicap at the time was sixteen. So I did
break one hundred, but not by a lot. Wow. Yeah,
Like certain holes just didn't suit my eye. Like sixteen
I hit into the water I had left into the water.
Seventeen I hit At this time the Eyesenhower tree was
(11:04):
still there. I hit it with my drive. Eighteen I
just had I just butchered up ten. I had a
really hard time on. I ended up in that big
bunker at the bottom of the hill and had a
hard time getting out. And part of the reason for
that was on the ninth hole, Tiger Woods had just
(11:25):
teed off and he saw us and he came walking over.
So Mark introduced me. So I got to meet Tiger
and had a little chat with him. So even though
I threw the first eight holes, I was fine after
meeting Tiger. It took me two holes to settle down,
Like I was hyperventilating. That Caddy saved me. He's like
he came over. He said, Okay, just take deep breaths.
(11:47):
It's gonna be okay. Don't worry about it. And luckily
I rallied frame end quarter.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh my gosh. And were there moments there like that
you were incredibly self conscious being his sixteen handicap playing
with these pros on the course.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yep. And it gets even worse. I had worse. It
was the sixth hole. Yeah, the sixth hole. We walk
up to it and there was these two older gentlemen
sitting in a golf cart and there were two like
teenagers about to tee off and Mark Mark says to me, goes, oh,
(12:24):
let me introduce you to these gentlemen. One of them
was Bob Goldby, who won I think in sixty seven,
that's the with the incident with the Argentine Tinian golfer
who disqualified himself. And then he said, this other gentleman
is Bob is it Bob Ford? Doug Ford? Excuse me?
(12:50):
So we we uh. They let us play through. We
hit our shots, and down at the green, I said,
I said, I recognize Goldbie's name, but who is Doug Ford?
And he said, well, he won the Masters in nineteen
fifty seven. If you could imagine, I'm like, how how
is this person even alive? So yeah, I pulled that
(13:12):
shot pretty good too, because I had a couple of
Masters champions watching on that. But if you let it
get in your head, it's intimidating. I mean I had
played obviously around the court core world on very good
courses and sometimes playing with golfers that were plus two
(13:32):
and plus three handicaps, which can be a little bit intimidating.
But I think because it was Marco Mira and he's
just such a gracious person, a nice man, it was
just the nerves weren't as bad as I thought they
were most of the round.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I'm curious to know how you hooked up with Marco Mirra.
I mean, like they said, i'll let John play this,
but how at what point did you know that it
was going to be with Marcomera.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well after after they invited me, I knew right away.
Capital One spends a lot of money on golf related things,
and it's sort of a way that they they pay
it back, you know, when they get opportunities to have
people that sponsor tournaments and spend a lot of money
on golf, they give them those kind of perks and
(14:28):
and you know, I guess there was just an opportunity
that came up and I was lucky enough to get it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So you're playing there the day before.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Twenty thirteen Masters.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, so what was this on a Wednesday? Was Tuesday?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, it's the Saturday, the Saturday.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Okay before everybody, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The Sunday, the Sunday before. So the tournament, the practice
rounds start on Monday, so we say it was the
Sunday before. Yeah, and the only the only people allow
on the course of that day or former champions and
they're allowed one guest each.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Oh okay, Yeah, so I twenty twenty five, I got
to go on Wednesday and Thursday, and it was mind
blowing for me. But one of the things that really
kind of not shook me up, but I was just
so surprised. It's just like there's no rough anywhere. Yes,
(15:28):
you know, I mean the one thing about the greens
being I would see guys take a stroke that would
be for like a five foot putt and it would
go thirty five feet. Yep, there was that. But the
fact that like the second cut, which is you know
what everyone else would call it rough, seemed to be
like most of the putting greens that I play.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean, aside from hitting into the water, you
can't really get in a lot of trouble. I mean
you could, you could hit onto the pine straw. That's
a little difficult to hit at. But you're right, the
fairways are in perfect condition. The first cut he's very
easy to hit at of not very thick most of
(16:10):
the courses. The difficulty is the approaches to the green.
Can you hold the green if you're coming in from
the wrong spot, And most of the time the answer
is no. And then once you're on the putting greens,
if you're not in the right spot, it's very difficult
to put because they're very fast. That's the challenge of Augusta.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I would think that the challenge of the Gusta is
the intimidation factor.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yes, yes it is. It is very intimidating. Yep, no
doubt about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So, okay, now we've got that established. That's not why
you're here today. You've just written a book that I
thoroughly enjoyed, and thank you. I promise you there will
be copies given out this holiday season to a number
of my friends who are not only golfers and a
(16:59):
you know, but they appreciate what Augusta is and what
the Masters is in the world of sports.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But they're also in business, and so you took this
approach on the book, and why don't you give me
the overview of what you think the book is and
then we can go on.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so you've been to the Masters, and even for
people that haven't been to the Masters, they get a
sense of obviously how perfect the course is watching on
TV and it's also the best broadcast of the year
for a variety of reasons. So the thing that strikes
me when you're actually on the property Augusta, and I've
(17:39):
been lucky enough to go nine times, wow, is it's perfect.
There are so many things that they do well. You know,
the attention to detail is the one that most people
pick up on. You can't find any weeds on the property.
Everybody's cheery, there's just you know, everybody's well behaved while there,
(18:04):
while they're on property, And every time I left Augusta,
I said to myself, how do they do this? You know,
this is a perfect place. And then you get out
of Augusta and people are rude and it's loud, and
everything is commercialized and everything is not perfect. So the
idea behind the book was to deconstruct what what it
(18:28):
is that goes into the Masters. How are the members
of Augusta National, how have they what's the secret formula
that they use? And I reverse engineered and they didn't
have access to any members or to the club. I
did a lot of research. I read for months and
months everything I could about about the Masters and what
(18:50):
goes into it. So most books that have been written
about the Masters are about the tournament, are about their
about the course itself. This is the first book that's
really about what makes it special. And originally I was
going to write it as a business, as a just
a golf book, but then as I started to get
into it, I asked the question, and this was really
(19:11):
the driving force behind the book, why can't the world
be more like the Masters? Right? It's it's just a
lot of people describe it that have been there as
an adult disney Land and to many in many respects,
it is nobody has a bad day when they go there.
(19:34):
Everybody is going out of their way to please you,
and just the way that the patrons behave and the
civility behind it. So I went through and I deconstructed
what makes it such a great tournament? That was the
idea behind it and the reason I decided to make
it a business book is certainly I'd say, you know,
(19:56):
the majority of the book, probably eighty percent, talks about
the Masters and what they do right, But then I
also said, okay, are there other businesses and are there
other examples where other companies who take the same philosophy
and the same approach can make the world more like
the Masters. So that's that's the idea behind it, to
(20:18):
try to spread the formula that they have for people
that are in business or making decisions. What can they
do to make their businesses operate better, or to treat
customers with more respect, or to create a more civil environment.
So and as you know, there's a lot that can
be done in the world to improve things, and we
(20:39):
could talk about some of the specifics.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Well, yeah, I mean early on in the book you
establish and page twenty four you say, AUGUSTA National's principles
can be replicated yep, And yeah, you know you're it
from there.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah. And one of the things that one of the
things that so like take attention to d detail. They
they hand clip the edges of the of the grass
near the bunkers to make sure that they're perfect. The
pro shop if you pay in cash. All the cash
(21:18):
and the pro shop are brand new bills. They won't
give you a bill that's been used before. Now that's
a quirk that Cliff Roberts set up. He didn't like
dirty bills. But you know, they still abide by that.
When they cut the flower bed in Founder Circle, which
is at the end of Magnolia Lane, they have a
horizontal ladder that they use so that they don't tramp
(21:40):
down on any of the flowers. I mean, it's things
that it's an insane attention to detail. But you know,
let's take two examples. Outside of Augusta. Ritz Carlton also
does a fantastic job on attention to detail. You know,
partly they do that by empowering their employees. Partly it's
just part of their culture and their those So that's
(22:01):
one example, and people are going to think, Okay, yeah, sure,
Augusta has a lot of money. Ritz Carlton's a very
expensive hotel. If you have a lot of money, it's
a lot easier to pay attention to detail. So I
also made sure that a bunch of the examples that
I gave in the book were not companies that are
high and only and my favorite example is a company
(22:24):
called BUCkies. BUCkies runs convenience centers slash gas stations slash
superstores along highways, primarily in the South, and BUCkies is interesting.
The reason I put it in the book is another
thing Augusta does really well. If you've ever been to
the Masters and you go to the bathroom, they have
(22:47):
an attendant that cleans the stall after each use. It's insane, right, like, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Definitely going to the bathroom is one of the highlights
of my two days there.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Right, you're greeted by an attendant. There's people in there
cleaning everything all the time. And what's what's a good
example is one of the things that Bucky's has made
part of their mission statements. They say they have the
cleanest bathrooms in America. Right, so for gas stations on
highway rest stops, how do you do that? Right? You
(23:22):
do that by committing you have an you want to
have an attention to detail. They take the time to
make sure that that's part of their culture. They train
their associates to do that, and the place has a
cult following. It's it's if you've ever been in one.
If you haven't, I recommend visiting they have it's very
(23:43):
similar to Augusta. They have tons of branded gear and
merchandise that they sell. Everybody is upbeat and cheery. It's
just a really good example of yes, there are ways.
Not everybody's not going to be perfect all the time,
but pick something, pick a couple things, and you can
really help to drive business and make it. And it's
(24:04):
a cult brand. People will drive an hour out of
their way to go get their gas at Bucket's because
they know that they're going to get a clean restroom.
So that's just one example that is a way to
replicate what Augusta does.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Have to share. My experience in the bathroom, I was
like around I think it was around whole number four.
I had to go to the bathroom. Pull my buddy,
I'll be back in the night. After the bathroom, and
there was this young man with the greatest energy and
the biggest smile saying, if you gotta go number one,
get in line here, you gotta go number two, just
(24:45):
wait against the wall, and he was like he just
repeated it that his enthusiasm every single time that he
repeated It's when I got to the front of line,
I was, you know, I was like, did you audition
for this job? You know? I said, do you enjoy
repeating you? He goes, I love this job. I've been
doing this. He couldn't have been more than twenty five
(25:07):
years old. He says, I've been doing this for seven years.
I absolutely love doing this.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
But I also saw that in the parking lot as
soon as you got out of the car, there was
a friendly person saying welcome to the masters.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Isn't it crazy? Yep? And you hear that about twenty
times even before you get in the gate. Yep. The
security guards. There's members in green jackets. People think that
AUGUSTA members are aloof and you never see them. I mean,
they're captains of industry. They're very successful people. But there
are three or four members who are assigned to the
(25:40):
parking lots and that's what they you know. And before
you get through the gates there they're saying hello, and
they're welcoming and welcoming you in again. Like you look
at there are businesses that do that. Buckets happens to
be another one where you get a warm greeting. Another
one I have in the in the book is Public's
supermarket chain. Also in the South, and Publics has what
(26:03):
they call they have a couple rules. They have a
ten second rule, which is every customer has to be
greeted within ten seconds of coming into your department. And
it just makes a big difference, right, it's that same
and you know it's supermarket, it's not it's not a
golf tournament run by a lot of affluent people. But
it makes a huge difference, and they have a huge, uh,
(26:27):
you know, customer satisfaction rating as a result. That's just
that's just one of the small things that they do.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Just one of the small things. You you briefly dropped
his name in, but we need to talk more about
Cliff Roberts. We hear a lot about Bobby Jones, obviously,
especially on this show because doctor Bob Jones, the fourth
his grandson, has been a regular on this show, nice
and telling stories about his grandfather, who he refers to
(26:54):
as bubb for the last number of years. But we
really don't hear a lot about the thumb print that
Cliff Roberts put on Augusta National.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yep. Yeah, I talk about a lot of the things
that Roberts does in the book, and one of the
things I speculate about is he was never diagnosed with OCD,
but in my opinion, he definitely had it. So, you know,
aside from only, he hated dirty money, so he made
(27:28):
sure there is only clean and brand new bills there.
He also made sure that every picture in the clubhouse
has to have two hooks on it so that no
pictures are ever crooked. They make sure that the pine
straw around the trees is raked in a clockwise fashion only.
So if you look at at the Masters, Jones was
(27:55):
the reason most people came to the tournament. Both fans
came to the tournament, and that's the reason it got
established as a major, because the pros came to honor
Bobby Jones. But everything behind the scenes was really Roberts.
Jones really operated at a high level, let's say thirty
(28:16):
thousand feet. Roberts got into the detail of everything and
one of the reasons that the Master's broadcast to this
day is still so good. Those are the things that
Roberts laid down as the law. Right. He didn't want commercials.
(28:37):
He didn't want it commercial. He set it up so
that the agreements with the broadcasters are year to year,
so if they don't like what is going on. They
have control over it. And he would sit down with
CBS executives after every year and he would critique and say,
I like this, I don't like this. So again, one
(28:58):
of the reasons he he made the TV broadcast so
good is he said, look, I don't like chatty conversation.
I don't like broadcasters talking all the time. And for
any of your listeners that watch golf, which I'm sure
most of them do, it's very annoying. It's it's it's
sort of like the broadcasters feel like they can't have
(29:23):
any dead space, they can't have any quiet there.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
This business.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And Roberts said, the last thing I want is quote
unquote chatty conversation. I don't want that. Golfers want useful information.
So a good example of that is if you go back,
I know you've had Jim Mantz as a guest on
your show. If you go back and look at his
most famous call, which was eighty six when Jack Nicholas
(29:53):
was charging for his last green jacket. That is where
he says the bear has come out of hibernation. If
you actually go and you listen to that, there are
long pauses and periods of silence even throughout that. After
Nant says the bear has come out of hibernation, he's
(30:16):
silent and nobody else talks. And the same thing if
you look at the most famous call with Tiger woodshot
on the sixteenth hole, where Verne Lunquist screams in your life,
have you ever seen that? After that, nobody says anything
for twenty seconds because they knew. You know that those
are the types of things that Cliff Roberts instilled in it,
(30:39):
And the fact that there's four minutes of commercials makes
it fantag fantastic. Roberts was just dead set against commercialism.
And I think I have a quote in the book
on this where one of the former chairmen said, we'd
rather shut the tournament down than have it be the
pizza hut masters. They just they don't they don't want
(31:00):
commercialism to be a part of it. And that goes
back to to what Cliff Roberts said he was, he
was the detail man.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah. Well, you you repeat multiple times throughout the book
that it's not about the money.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
No, it's not, it's not about the money at all.
If you look at if you look at like take
take the ability to buy anything. I notice you have
a Master's set on. The Only way to buy a
Master's brandy gear is to go and buy it in
person at the Masters. Certainly you can buy it in
the secondary market on eBay or other websites, but you
(31:36):
know you're paying a huge markup. Now, Augusta, they could
flood the zone. They could. They could make Masters items
available throughout you know, they could, they could, anybody could
buy it. They don't want to do that, they don't
need the money. They could certainly raise the price of
a sandwich, right instead of costing two fifty or five
dollars for a beer, they could double or triple those
(31:58):
and people would still buy them. It's just it's it's
they it's again, it's part of the ethos and they
they Yeah, it's just a core part of the club.
And again I give throughout the book, I give credit
to all the chairmen and members of the club over
the last hundred years that have stuck to that. It's
(32:20):
one thing for Jones and Roberts to say that, it's
another thing for the club to live up to those principles.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And it's the Old South.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, it's the Old South very much. I agree, and
it's created some crazy things. One of one of one
of my favorite things in the book is I don't
know how much people know about these The Masters has
these gnomes. They have limited edition garden gnomes. They're about
a foot toall. They won't tell you how many of
them in classic and classic Masters fashion. They don't tell
(32:52):
you a lot of things about what goes on behind
the scenes. They don't tell you how many of them
they issue per year. But I tell us story where
and I actually spoke to this individual. It's a millennial.
He lives in suburban Georgia. He bought the garden home.
The first year it was thirty nine dollars and fifty cents.
In twenty sixteen he bought it. He sold it in
(33:14):
twenty twenty four for eighty nine hundred dollars. So that
tells you a couple of things, right. It tells you,
Number one, how much people really value what you know.
Anything with a Master's logo on it is worth something.
You can travel anywhere in the world and people know
what the Master's logo is about. But it also it's
(33:38):
it's one of the ten principles I talk about in
the book, which is how do you use scarcity to
create value? Right? They've perfected that you can only buy
their things seven days a year in person, that's you
use scarcity and things create value. And the company in
the book that I use as an example where other
(34:02):
companies can do it outside is Ermes, the French high
end fashion retailer. You know they make the Birken bags
and they also limit those and they don't you basically
can't buy them, but they won't tell you how many
they make. So again it's just another example of how
you can take some of the things that Augusta does
and replicate them. But imagine buying something for thirty nine
(34:25):
fifty and selling it for almost nine thousand dollars. I mean,
hedge funds don't even have that rate of return.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
So I need to share like my purchasing history when
I was there this year, And it still makes me
laugh when I do it, because I knew that I
wasn't aware that the scarcity mentality that they had about that,
but I knew I was going to have to buy
gifts for people I'm you know, my friends. I don't
(35:01):
have the opportunity that I had, and so I literally
went online starting to look for it, like, well, I
can get some hats cheaper and then I'll just buy
them and give them my friends say. I was there
and there was nothing. I couldn't mind anything, right, And
my son who he and I have been like who's
going to go first? Who's going to go first? You know?
(35:22):
And I never thought I was going to get to go,
and he was convinced he was going to go. I
went Wednesday and Thursday. He went Friday and Saturday. But
I was the guest of a member. So he said,
You've got to get me a hat from Augusta National.
That has Augusta National. I'm like, okay, I will, I
will find one. So I the first as soon as
(35:45):
we went through the gates, we went right to the
pro shop for the members that we got to go into.
We had the special members passes, and I asked him
when I said, do you have Augusta National hats? Like, no,
only Master's hats. And that was the end of the conference.
I'm like, oh, okay, Well, so I text my son, no,
there's no it's just Master is not a gust National.
(36:07):
So I'm still looking around and I'm shopping, and my
first shopping experience while I was there and I buy
the hat that I'm wearing right now for you. And
then my son, when I saw him two weeks later,
he's like, where'd you get that hat? And I said, well,
I bought it in the pro shop. It was the
one that I kind of liked it a lot and
(36:28):
it fit me really well. So yeah, I bought this
hat and he goes, well, that was only available in
the member's pro shop. Why didn't you get me that hat.
I'm like, I had no idea. They just told me
there were none, and he's like, well, give me the hat.
I'm like, no, I'm not going to give me the hat.
I love this hat. I'm going to wear this hat
a lot. And I don't wear baseball caps, but I'm
going to wear this hat a lot because we know
(36:49):
you got to give it. I'm not going to give
it to you. I love you, but I'm not going
to give you my hat. And he goes, well, that's okay,
I'll get it when you die. Okay, great, that's something
to look forward to. Then that's all you're getting from
me is my hat.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That's funny. Yeah, there's a whole most people wouldn't even
wouldn't even know, like.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Somebody offered me one thousand dollars in the market, a
trader Joe. Someone came up and goes, real, there're this
here and yeah, and he goes, I want your hat.
I'm like no, he goes, no, I'll give you a
thousand bucks. I'm like, no, my son wants it, and
he goes, I'll get and he followed me around the
market and we said goodbye, and then he came back
to my wife and he says, can you please get
him to give me the hat. I'm like, no, you
(37:32):
can't have that.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And my son's like, you didn't take one thousand dollars
for the hat, and I'm like, no, it's going to
give it to you. He goes, I'd sell it for those.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, but one of the lines that you have here
just hit me right between the eyes. It was paid
one hundred ninety two. So excited to attend the Masters,
and I'm sure if they will ever return. Patrons sometimes
lose their senses, they do. That was me. That was me.
(38:09):
I went shopping four times in the two days that
I was there. I bought a home, only the little
one because they were out of the big ones and.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I went the big one's the big ones fell out
the door. Yeah, the big ones.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
They do have a small one. And I spend I
and this is of course, I know I'm never going
to play and I you know, if I go shopping
in a pro shop because oh I'm never gonna play
this course again, or I had a great round or
something like that, I'll go right to the sales rack
and if I have to, I'll move beyond that and
spend ninety dollars. I spent eighteen hundred dollars YEP in
(38:45):
four trips. Luckily they let you go back to your
car and come back.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yes, they also went nuts. They also allow you to
They have a UPS shipping station there. You can just
walk out of the pro shop. They'll box it up
and and you can send it to yourself. The average
spend is four hundred and fifty dollars more or less
(39:10):
there and they asked, I have this in the book too,
because again it's that whole scarcity factor. They asked one
of the ladies that was working check out, what's the
biggest purchase she ever saw, and she said twenty thousand dollars,
So that could be there's a lot of people that
(39:31):
just go to the Masters and get tickets just to
sell on eBay. She said, basically they bought like three
of everything. To me, that sounds like a reseller, which
at some point, you know, it's very very difficult, if
not impossible, to resell Masters tickets now they're all coded
and if you try to sell them, they'll deactivate the ticket.
(39:52):
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they do
the same thing with people that are trying to resell,
because they really One of the things that they do
exceptionally well, and I go through this in the book
is nothing is more important than the brand. You alluded
to it, right, It's not about money. They could certainly
make more money by doing a lot of different things.
They could start to charge the broadcasters, for instance, but
(40:16):
they are just very protective of the brand, which in
the long run makes all the sense in the world. Right,
look at that little logo on your hat. How much
that's worth. That's the brand, exactly right. It's not always
about money, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
They also get the right people to do this. You
talk about in the book about how they their national
the chief Merchandise and Creative Services Officer correct, give you
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yes, So I would say the most frequent comment I
hear from people, even when you're on property or after
the fact, is it feels like an adult Disneyland. And
part of that is there everybody's aim is to have
(41:05):
you feel good that day, and everybody, like you said before,
bathroom attendance, people that are checking you out after you
buy your permento, cheese sandwich, et cetera. But one of
the things that they do exceptionally well that I think
they don't get enough credit for is the way they
manage talent. And the example I give is they hired
(41:28):
someone who ran the merchandising operation for Walt Disney, and
I think that person's been at the club for a
dozen years or so. And if you look at what
they've done in terms of merchandise and what they offer
over that dozen years, they've greatly expanded the size of
the of the pro shop that you go into buy
(41:50):
Master's gear, and they now do brand partnerships with selected
brands that are only high quality. That's just one example.
So obviously, you know, the three hundred members of Augusta
are all very successful people. They can't do the day,
the day today, and when you go, if you sit
(42:11):
down and you have lunch, you know, to a person,
all the people that you're dealing with are cheerful. And
I don't I don't know any other company or brand
or location in the world. You know, Disney's probably the
closest where everybody is that good. So again I couldn't
find out what they do exactly in terms of their
(42:33):
training program. But I don't know how you get every
single person on a location to be that up beaten,
chirpy all the time. It's it's it's an exceptional part
of what they do, and to me, they don't get
enough credit for that. But again, I think it's talent management.
It's going out, it's finding the right people, it's paying
them well, it's grooming them and taking care of them.
(42:57):
There's there's just so many and that again, that's one
of the reasons when where I started out as a
golf book and then transitioned over. You know, it's still
seventy eighty percent golf and golf fans will will really
enjoy the book, even if they're not, you know, into
making business decisions. But it's just really interesting some of
(43:19):
the decisions that they've made. The other thing that they
don't get enough credit for. Right, It's it's essentially a
lot of wealthy people that are successful. They're not young,
you know they and I give an example, they have
a technology committee and the average age of their technology
committee is sixty five years old. But arguably they are
(43:43):
one of the best users of technology in the world
across any industry. If you use the Master's app, if
you look at what they do in terms of their broadcast,
or you can go and you can just watch Amen Corner.
You can watch every shot of any player they're on.
(44:05):
I think it's fifteen different social media channels. I mean,
you know, you and I aren't aren't Spring chickens either.
But they're huge users of TikTok. Right. The average age
of a TikTok user is is high teens, right, and
most most TikTok users are in Asia or Latin America.
(44:26):
They're very sophisticated in terms of how they use technology.
And it's and it's one of the lessons that to
me that really came out as I started to analyze
the company. And frankly, when you go outside the Master's
most you know, Masters only uses technology to help you.
(44:49):
And most technology and I use a couple of examples
in the books. Try calling your cable company or your
power company or ups. First of all, you're not going
to get anybody. You're going to get at some phone
tree that's mind numbing and it's going to take you
five minutes to get through that. When you get through that,
you're going to get to some chatbot that doesn't work,
and then maybe you're going to be put on hold
(45:10):
for twenty minutes. That's the way most companies use technology.
They're using it to prevent you from getting to a person.
They're using it to save money. And again there's a
huge lesson in there about how you don't have to
do that. And I use a company in of all places,
a pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin, called you Line, and they sell
(45:34):
shipping supplies and cardboard boxes and stuff. When you call
you Line, the phone never rings. Go look up their
eight one hundred number and dial their number. I guarantee
the phone will in a second or less. The head
of the company says, we pick up the phones faster
(45:54):
than nine one one when you dial nine to one one,
and he's right, it's incredible. That's that's an that's a
brilliant use of technology. So again it's a it's a small,
relatively small, privately held company. It's just another good example
of how if you use technology wisely, you can actually
help people and create a better environment. And it's another
(46:17):
good example of how the world can be more like
the Masters if more companies and decision makers decided that
it was it was a good goal and worthy to
do that.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
To me, what stands out about your book what I
enjoyed so much is how you take a business view
of something that all golfers and many non golfers appreciate,
and that is what The Masters represents, not only to
the sport, but also to the passage of time. It's like,
(46:55):
when the Masters happens, it's ah, it's springtime. It's time
to start thinking about and going out and playing golf again.
Why is it in the book that you felt that
the Masters would fly over the heads of private equity people.
Going back into the business element of.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
It, Yeah, one of the things I did is so
if I look, I have something like twenty twenty two
or twenty four companies that I compare The Masters to.
So it's it's it's Disney it's you line, it's Bucky's,
but it's also you know, places like publics and stuff.
(47:39):
And one of the things I did when I started
to analyze it, even though publics is a huge supermarket,
it's employee owned. And eighty percent of the companies that
I ended up comparing to from in the book were
either employee owned or privately owned, and the other twenty percent,
(48:01):
and frankly most I give a lot of examples of
companies that do a horrible job, almost all of them
were owned by they're either public big public companies, or
they were owned by private equity. So it's not something
I came in and said, this is something I want
to try to prove or disprove. I just looked at
and analyzed as I went through it, and I think,
(48:22):
fred it comes back to just money. If if you're
in private equity and you're investing in something and you
want to get a return on it, what's your time horizon?
Right Augusta's time horizon. They're looking at twenty thirty years
and they're thinking about the brand. They're not thinking about money.
So same thing. If your employee owned, you're going to
(48:46):
do everything you can to make sure that the company
is successful, because if the company does well, you do well.
It's just a matter of the incentives, I think. And
obviously there are public companies like Disney that do a
good job. But my experience, the bigger the company, the
more bureaucratic, and companies that are that are owned by
(49:09):
private equity and and and other owners that are just
looking to milk it and make money out of it,
to me, they don't. They don't live the principle. Certainly,
there's going to be exceptions. I'm sure I'll get calls
from people that are in private equity complaining about that comment,
but as a general rule that that's what I found
as I analyzed.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
The book interesting. You also, and I hope it's okay
to talk about this. You were quite revealing about your
personal story. Yes, you even said I've lived two lives.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
I have. Yeah, yeah, I think the way I describe
it is the first life was I mean, I was.
I was wildly successful, given you know, I didn't excel
at school. I was fantastic at sports, but I ended
(50:03):
up doing very well in business. I have a fantastic family.
I played the top hundred courses, right, I mean it
was a dream life, and then in twenty eighteen, I
was diagnosed with leukemia and my first life ended in
one day. Leukemia is cancered the blood, and I had
(50:23):
a particular strain that is very deadly, unfortunately, so they
put me in an ambulance. I went to the hospital.
I wasn't allowed to leave for thirty days. I had
a bone marrow transplant and since then, you know, there's
a lot of complications. I'm lucky to be alive. Let
(50:44):
me just say first and foremost that I'm not complaining
about anything. Every day is a gift. I'm happy to
be here. But you know, I deal with a lot
of issues from the bone marrow transplant. And it sounds goofy,
but you know, when I was in the hospital and
I had some moments that were not so great, and
(51:05):
you know, I obviously wanted to get out to be
with my family and my friends and so forth, but
I also dreamed about one day, like returning to go
back to the Masters. As odd as that sounds, because
you know, I'm stuck in After you have a bone
marrow transplant, It's sort of like the Seinfeld episode with
the bubble Boy. You're stuck in a room. When nurses
(51:27):
and doctors come in, they have to put on special equipment.
You're not allowed to leave the room for thirty days.
You know. I'm hooked up to five or six different
monitors and ivs and so forth. It's such an antiseptic
environment and it really just crushes the soul. And to me,
(51:47):
the best place in the world. And you've been there,
anybody that's been there. When you're standing by the thirteenth
Green or you're near Amen Corner, it's heaven. And I
just you know, one of the things that motivated me
to write the book is I just wanted to know
more about it. I wanted to go back, and I
did a couple of years after. You know, my doctor said, no,
(52:12):
you really can't go. You can't fly. You don't have
a good immune system. You know. She was hemming and
horn and eventually I say in the book, I say,
you know, like most people don't know a lot about golf,
the majority of people out there, but they know what
the Masters is. And you know, she's seventy years old,
my oncologist, she has no clue about golf, but she
(52:35):
knows what the Masters is. You know, she recognizes the
theme song and she'll watch on Sunday. That's the only
golf she ever watches. So she gave me permission and
we ended up going back and I said, you know,
that's when my mental healing began. You know, the doctors
that treated me did a phenomenal job. I'm forever grateful
(52:56):
to what they did, but it just beats you down
spiritually and mentally, and for me, everybody's got something different.
That's one of the things I really wanted to do.
So call it an obsession about Augusta National or the Masters,
whatever you want, but that's one of the things I
dreamed of and I've been working on the book for
(53:17):
three years and it's just been a dream project for
me because I can't get enough things Augusta. I just
love everything about what they do because, as you know,
you've been there, and hopefully you know, people listening if
they haven't been able to go and keep trying the lottery,
eventually you'll win. I won the lottery last year for
(53:40):
the first time ever. It took fifteen years to win,
so there's hope for anybody to go. And it's I
think it should be a life goal of anybody because
you know, Disneyland is for kids, but Augusta's for adults.
And it's hard to describe right, as much as I
try to do it in the book, unless you have
(54:02):
actually been on property and experience at firsthand, it's very
difficult to relate that, which is why people are so
insane when they come back from the Masters and they
lose their minds when they go into the pro shop,
because it's like you're a kid at a candy story.
You're like, I finally made it, and I might never
come back. So I'm going to buy everything, and I'm
(54:22):
going to give a gift to everybody I know. Yep,
it's not uncommon, Fred, not uncommon.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Well, good gee, that makes me feel better. Well, here's
a little gift for you. John.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Oh awesome, best song in the world.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yeah, you know, there are probably I can think of
three life goals for golfers. One would be a hole
in one yep. Two getting to witness the Masters in person. Yeah,
And to me, my ultimate one now is someday shooting
(54:59):
my ag.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah. That's a good one too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
I hope you're well now, Yes, thank you. I'm so
sorry about all the troubles that you've been through and.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I consider myself lucky in many respects. But thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, and I consider myself lucky because I
got a chance to talk to you again and about
this book again. I think if anybody listening, if in
fact you have or are part of a business that
you want to help grow, yeah, to look at this
book and take it seriously. It's called The Augusta Principles.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Right, yes, thank you, Fred.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Please please share with us how to find more about
the book about you where to get it.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, there's a website. I think I sent the link
with this episode. There's a website called the Augusta Principles
that people could visit or google or the books available
on am on a lot of people buy it on Amazon.
But thank you for that, Fred.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yep, absolutely, John, it was great to catch up again
after so long. I can't believe the Gulf Smarter is
still going on and that we were able to reconnect
after so many years.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
Ye. Well, your podcast is so good, that's why you've
been doing it for so long.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Fred, No, I'm just I've got that, you know, the
OCD thing that we talked about with Clip Roberts, like
can't stop just can't stop because if I do, I'll
never come back. I gotta keep going. But it's it's
been an incredible journey, and I'm so glad to have
you help me put it all together. On both sides.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Oh, pleasure is mine.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Thanks again, Thank you, Fred
Hi, I'm Bob NIS's from cold Spring, Kentucky.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I golf at aj Jolly Golf Course in Alexandria, Kentucky.
Welcome to Golf Smarter.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Hi. This is Bob Cordero from Haverford, Pennsylvania, and I
play at the Shore Club in Kate May Courthouse, New Jersey.
This is Golf's Smarter Number one twenty five.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
The Masters has these limited edition garden Nomes. They're about
a foot toll in classic Masters fashion. They don't tell
you a lot of things about what goes on behind
the scenes. They don't tell you how many of them
they issue per year. But I tell a story where
as a millennial he lives in suburban Georgia, bought the
garden Nome. The first year it was thirty nine dollars
(00:47):
and fifty cents in twenty sixteen. He sold it in
twenty twenty four for eighty nine hundred dollars. So that
tells you number one, Anything with a Master's logo on
it is worth something. You can travel anywhere in the
world and people know what the Master's logo is about.
But it also it's one of the ten principles I
talk about in the book how do you use scarcity
(01:08):
to create value? They've perfected that you can only buy
their things seven days a year in person.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
I dream the world could be more like the Masters.
With author of the Augusta Principles, John Sabino, this is
Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf
minds to help you lower your score and raise your
golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to
(01:39):
the Golf Smarter podcast. John.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Hello, Fred, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Thank you for reaching out again. Now it's interesting I'm saying,
welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast, but you haven't
been on since two thousand and eight and episode one
hundred and fifty nine, and the listeners that were that
were here back then, and there are some you may remember.
We never learned John's name. He was anonymous at the
(02:09):
time because he was on episode number fifty two in
two thousand and six, episode number one hundred and eight
in two thousand and seven, and then episode one fifty
nine in two thousand and eight, and what we were
doing at the end of each year you had I
don't know how you found me, but it was early
on in podcasting days, and you reached out to me
(02:31):
to say, I'm trying to play the best golf courses
in the world, the top one hundred courses, and so
you gave us a recap of your year of what
you were doing. And I do distinctly remember in two
thousand and eight, I think it was you felt like
there was one course you would never get to.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
That true. That's it took me. Uh it took me,
I think twelve years to play the top ninety nine
in the world, and it took me another three or
four to get on Augusta. But I had given up.
I thought, okay, ninety nine is pretty good. I had
been to the Masters and walked the course. That's pretty
close sort of ninety nine and a half. But then,
(03:17):
out of the blue, to the company I worked for,
they invited the CEO to play, but luckily there was
a board meeting that week and he couldn't go. So
he called my boss, who lives in Charlotte, but he
had played it already, and he did the most gracious
thing anybody could do, and he said, well, John needs
(03:38):
to play. Let's give it to John. And that's how
I got on and I ended up.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Did they know you were going? You were your quest
to get it?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
They knew about it, Yeah, it was. It was widely known.
That was a different company. The reason I came on
your podcasts anonymous before is the company I worked for
at the time, Morgan Stanley, didn't really want any publicity,
you know, they were very shy on everything. But when
I worked for Capitol One, which is where I got
(04:08):
the invite to Augusta, they didn't. They didn't care as
much about that, and I ended up. Yeah, I ended
up playing. That was the last course I played, obviously,
and I played with Marco Mera the day before the
Masters in twenty thirteen. Yeah, it was. It was quite
an event. And we played on the front nine Mark
(04:32):
and I played alone, and then on the we were
going and on the tenth tee Jose Maria Olthabo came
off the practice putting green and said, oh, do you
guys mind if I join you? And Mark said, it's
okay with me. Let's see if John wants you to
join or not. So he turned to me and he said,
is it okay if John joins? And what am I
(04:55):
going to say? Fred, Like, Yeah, we're in a groove here. Mark,
let's just keep going. So I played the back nine
with two Masters champions and it was phenomenal because they're friends,
and you know, there was a very comfortable pairing and
they would each drop a ball on different greens and say,
when I won the Masters, here's the pot I had
(05:16):
on thirteen, and they recreated shots for me. It was
there's only one way to end a quest, to do
what I was doing, and that's the way I did.
I tell people now, I'm probably the only golfer maybe
in the world that doesn't want to play Augusta because
nothing I could do with top the experience I had.
(05:36):
So if I ever got invited again, I would I
would pay it forward and invite a couple of my friends. Yeah,
I have a living you wanted hand up the others
drop out, Fred, I'll slought you in Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, you know, Morgan Stanley. You know they didn't want
the publicity. They also probably would have to get a
team of lawyers and compliance people to make sure that
you didn't say anything. I was like, so, yeah, but
you wanted to remain Yeah, you had to remain anonymous
by being on the podcast. But you were so nice
to come back but then you disappeared. I reached out
(06:15):
to you and I never heard from you again. So yeah,
well that was pretty awesome. We got three years. I
wonder whatever happened, and your name came up to me
in twenty ten when I was playing at Harding Park
with the two crazy Kiwis.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
That's right, yeah, Jamie, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, Michael and Jamie. So these kids were traveling around
the world and we're going to play a different course
for three hundred and sixty five days in a row
yep and circumvent the planet Untilda and play golf. And
they did it. And so when they stopped in San Francisco,
I played with them at Harding Park and they told
(06:56):
me that they played with you, and they told told
me your name was John. I'm like, I didn't know that.
He's like, what do you mean he never told me
his name? When I asked, He's like, no, I can't
really tell you.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I'll just tell you my stories, but that's all I
can do. Yeah, Yeah, they were fun.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Where did you play with them?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I believe it or not. In Melbourne in Australia. I
met them. I was playing Walton Heath and I think
one of the cat He said, oh, you have to
meet these guys. So I met them down there. We
played a couple of holes, and then when they were
coming through the US, I played with them. I hosted
them in New Jersey a couple of times and helped
them out getting on different courses where I could. Yeah,
(07:39):
they were they were I forget how well, maybe twenty
three at the time, and I told them they were
going to ruin their lives. They picked too early. You can't, Like,
that's right. Think about think about how great that is
to play golf for sixty five days in a row.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
But you got to be twenty three to have that.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Exactly that, yeah, exactly, just go.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Out every single day. It's like, couldn't do it today.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I couldn't either. My back couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
No, absolutely not, absolutely not. But I'm curious. I'm going
to go back to Augusta in the time that you
played with two Masters champions. Yep, how was your game
at the time.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
It wasn't bad. I shot to my handicap. The highlight
of the round was I played amen corner and even parr.
I parted eleven. I birdied twelve, which is one of
those iconic holes in the world where you think about
if there's holes you want a birdie, you know, Cyprus
point sixteen, TPC Saws seventeen, you know, with the water.
(08:40):
But Augustus twelfth is pretty high up on that list.
And then I bogied thirteen. So yeah, I played to
my handicap. You know, Mark was very gracious. You're extremely
nervous when you play Augusta under any conditions, of course,
So on the first two holes he played the members
teas with me instead of playing the proteas, just to
(09:00):
sort of, you know, help me get into the situation
and make sure I wasn't too nervous, which I was.
But I hit the first fairway, I parted the second hole, Yeah,
I did, Okay, I played to my handicap. The greens
are insane, They're extremely difficult, and they were tournament speed.
Like on eighteen, I hit above the hole and I
(09:21):
just tapped the pot to try to get it to
the hole, and it ran off the front of the
green and then Jose Maria comes up and it drops
the ball and he says, there's just nothing you could do.
There's no speed you could hit it to stop it.
He goes. The lesson is you just can't be above
some of these holes. So yeah, it was. It was
really interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So what's the difference between the members teas and the proteas.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
The members teas, I think are sixty six hundred, and
god knows what the what the proteins are these days,
probably seventy four or seventy five hundred. They keep lengthening it,
but yeah, sixty six hundred is manageable for the average golfer,
which I was at the time.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Is it true that you cannot post or the course
is not rated?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
It doesn't have a slope rating, that's correct, it doesn't
have it. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So you just it's just a story you get to tell.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Just a great round of golf that you remember forever,
but you can't post the score.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Right, and it lasts and the story lasts longer than
your twenty rounds exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And I'm still telling people that I birdied twelve. So
thanks for giving me the opportunity to do it again.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Oh absolutely, I'm going to give you a lot of
opportunities to brag about this because it's such an amazing story.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
And just wait, when you were saying you were playing
your handicap, Come on, give me more than that.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
My handicap at the time was sixteen. So I did
break one hundred, but not by a lot. Wow. Yeah,
Like certain holes just didn't suit my eye. Like sixteen
I hit into the water I had left into the water.
Seventeen I hit At this time the Eyesenhower tree was
(11:04):
still there. I hit it with my drive. Eighteen I
just had I just butchered up ten. I had a
really hard time on. I ended up in that big
bunker at the bottom of the hill and had a
hard time getting out. And part of the reason for
that was on the ninth hole, Tiger Woods had just
(11:25):
teed off and he saw us and he came walking over.
So Mark introduced me. So I got to meet Tiger
and had a little chat with him. So even though
I threw the first eight holes, I was fine after
meeting Tiger. It took me two holes to settle down,
Like I was hyperventilating. That Caddy saved me. He's like
he came over. He said, Okay, just take deep breaths.
(11:47):
It's gonna be okay. Don't worry about it. And luckily
I rallied frame end quarter.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Oh my gosh. And were there moments there like that
you were incredibly self conscious being his sixteen handicap playing
with these pros on the course.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yep. And it gets even worse. I had worse. It
was the sixth hole. Yeah, the sixth hole. We walk
up to it and there was these two older gentlemen
sitting in a golf cart and there were two like
teenagers about to tee off and Mark Mark says to me, goes, oh,
(12:24):
let me introduce you to these gentlemen. One of them
was Bob Goldby, who won I think in sixty seven,
that's the with the incident with the Argentine Tinian golfer
who disqualified himself. And then he said, this other gentleman
is Bob is it Bob Ford? Doug Ford? Excuse me?
(12:50):
So we we uh. They let us play through. We
hit our shots, and down at the green, I said,
I said, I recognize Goldbie's name, but who is Doug Ford?
And he said, well, he won the Masters in nineteen
fifty seven. If you could imagine, I'm like, how how
is this person even alive? So yeah, I pulled that
(13:12):
shot pretty good too, because I had a couple of
Masters champions watching on that. But if you let it
get in your head, it's intimidating. I mean I had
played obviously around the court core world on very good
courses and sometimes playing with golfers that were plus two
(13:32):
and plus three handicaps, which can be a little bit intimidating.
But I think because it was Marco Mira and he's
just such a gracious person, a nice man, it was
just the nerves weren't as bad as I thought they
were most of the round.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
I'm curious to know how you hooked up with Marco Mirra.
I mean, like they said, i'll let John play this,
but how at what point did you know that it
was going to be with Marcomera.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Well after after they invited me, I knew right away.
Capital One spends a lot of money on golf related things,
and it's sort of a way that they they pay
it back, you know, when they get opportunities to have
people that sponsor tournaments and spend a lot of money
on golf, they give them those kind of perks and
(14:28):
and you know, I guess there was just an opportunity
that came up and I was lucky enough to get it.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So you're playing there the day before.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Twenty thirteen Masters.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Yeah, so what was this on a Wednesday? Was Tuesday?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
No, it's the Saturday, the Saturday.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Okay before everybody, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
The Sunday, the Sunday before. So the tournament, the practice
rounds start on Monday, so we say it was the
Sunday before. Yeah, and the only the only people allow
on the course of that day or former champions and
they're allowed one guest each.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Oh okay, Yeah, so I twenty twenty five, I got
to go on Wednesday and Thursday, and it was mind
blowing for me. But one of the things that really
kind of not shook me up, but I was just
so surprised. It's just like there's no rough anywhere. Yes,
(15:28):
you know, I mean the one thing about the greens
being I would see guys take a stroke that would
be for like a five foot putt and it would
go thirty five feet. Yep, there was that. But the
fact that like the second cut, which is you know
what everyone else would call it rough, seemed to be
like most of the putting greens that I play.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean, aside from hitting into the water, you
can't really get in a lot of trouble. I mean
you could, you could hit onto the pine straw. That's
a little difficult to hit at. But you're right, the
fairways are in perfect condition. The first cut he's very
easy to hit at of not very thick most of
(16:10):
the courses. The difficulty is the approaches to the green.
Can you hold the green if you're coming in from
the wrong spot, And most of the time the answer
is no. And then once you're on the putting greens,
if you're not in the right spot, it's very difficult
to put because they're very fast. That's the challenge of Augusta.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I would think that the challenge of the Gusta is
the intimidation factor.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Yes, yes it is. It is very intimidating. Yep, no
doubt about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So, okay, now we've got that established. That's not why
you're here today. You've just written a book that I
thoroughly enjoyed, and thank you. I promise you there will
be copies given out this holiday season to a number
of my friends who are not only golfers and a
(16:59):
you know, but they appreciate what Augusta is and what
the Masters is in the world of sports.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
But they're also in business, and so you took this
approach on the book, and why don't you give me
the overview of what you think the book is and
then we can go on.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, so you've been to the Masters, and even for
people that haven't been to the Masters, they get a
sense of obviously how perfect the course is watching on
TV and it's also the best broadcast of the year
for a variety of reasons. So the thing that strikes
me when you're actually on the property Augusta, and I've
(17:39):
been lucky enough to go nine times, wow, is it's perfect.
There are so many things that they do well. You know,
the attention to detail is the one that most people
pick up on. You can't find any weeds on the property.
Everybody's cheery, there's just you know, everybody's well behaved while there,
(18:04):
while they're on property, And every time I left Augusta,
I said to myself, how do they do this? You know,
this is a perfect place. And then you get out
of Augusta and people are rude and it's loud, and
everything is commercialized and everything is not perfect. So the
idea behind the book was to deconstruct what what it
(18:28):
is that goes into the Masters. How are the members
of Augusta National, how have they what's the secret formula
that they use? And I reverse engineered and they didn't
have access to any members or to the club. I
did a lot of research. I read for months and
months everything I could about about the Masters and what
(18:50):
goes into it. So most books that have been written
about the Masters are about the tournament, are about their
about the course itself. This is the first book that's
really about what makes it special. And originally I was
going to write it as a business, as a just
a golf book, but then as I started to get
into it, I asked the question, and this was really
(19:11):
the driving force behind the book, why can't the world
be more like the Masters? Right? It's it's just a
lot of people describe it that have been there as
an adult disney Land and to many in many respects,
it is nobody has a bad day when they go there.
(19:34):
Everybody is going out of their way to please you,
and just the way that the patrons behave and the
civility behind it. So I went through and I deconstructed
what makes it such a great tournament? That was the
idea behind it and the reason I decided to make
it a business book is certainly I'd say, you know,
(19:56):
the majority of the book, probably eighty percent, talks about
the Masters and what they do right, But then I
also said, okay, are there other businesses and are there
other examples where other companies who take the same philosophy
and the same approach can make the world more like
the Masters. So that's that's the idea behind it, to
(20:18):
try to spread the formula that they have for people
that are in business or making decisions. What can they
do to make their businesses operate better, or to treat
customers with more respect, or to create a more civil environment.
So and as you know, there's a lot that can
be done in the world to improve things, and we
(20:39):
could talk about some of the specifics.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Well, yeah, I mean early on in the book you
establish and page twenty four you say, AUGUSTA National's principles
can be replicated yep, And yeah, you know you're it
from there.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah. And one of the things that one of the
things that so like take attention to d detail. They
they hand clip the edges of the of the grass
near the bunkers to make sure that they're perfect. The
pro shop if you pay in cash. All the cash
(21:18):
and the pro shop are brand new bills. They won't
give you a bill that's been used before. Now that's
a quirk that Cliff Roberts set up. He didn't like
dirty bills. But you know, they still abide by that.
When they cut the flower bed in Founder Circle, which
is at the end of Magnolia Lane, they have a
horizontal ladder that they use so that they don't tramp
(21:40):
down on any of the flowers. I mean, it's things
that it's an insane attention to detail. But you know,
let's take two examples. Outside of Augusta. Ritz Carlton also
does a fantastic job on attention to detail. You know,
partly they do that by empowering their employees. Partly it's
just part of their culture and their those So that's
(22:01):
one example, and people are going to think, Okay, yeah, sure,
Augusta has a lot of money. Ritz Carlton's a very
expensive hotel. If you have a lot of money, it's
a lot easier to pay attention to detail. So I
also made sure that a bunch of the examples that
I gave in the book were not companies that are
high and only and my favorite example is a company
(22:24):
called BUCkies. BUCkies runs convenience centers slash gas stations slash
superstores along highways, primarily in the South, and BUCkies is interesting.
The reason I put it in the book is another
thing Augusta does really well. If you've ever been to
the Masters and you go to the bathroom, they have
(22:47):
an attendant that cleans the stall after each use. It's insane, right, like, it's.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Definitely going to the bathroom is one of the highlights
of my two days there.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Right, you're greeted by an attendant. There's people in there
cleaning everything all the time. And what's what's a good
example is one of the things that Bucky's has made
part of their mission statements. They say they have the
cleanest bathrooms in America. Right, so for gas stations on
highway rest stops, how do you do that? Right? You
(23:22):
do that by committing you have an you want to
have an attention to detail. They take the time to
make sure that that's part of their culture. They train
their associates to do that, and the place has a
cult following. It's it's if you've ever been in one.
If you haven't, I recommend visiting they have it's very
(23:43):
similar to Augusta. They have tons of branded gear and
merchandise that they sell. Everybody is upbeat and cheery. It's
just a really good example of yes, there are ways.
Not everybody's not going to be perfect all the time,
but pick something, pick a couple things, and you can
really help to drive business and make it. And it's
(24:04):
a cult brand. People will drive an hour out of
their way to go get their gas at Bucket's because
they know that they're going to get a clean restroom.
So that's just one example that is a way to
replicate what Augusta does.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Have to share. My experience in the bathroom, I was
like around I think it was around whole number four.
I had to go to the bathroom. Pull my buddy,
I'll be back in the night. After the bathroom, and
there was this young man with the greatest energy and
the biggest smile saying, if you gotta go number one,
get in line here, you gotta go number two, just
(24:45):
wait against the wall, and he was like he just
repeated it that his enthusiasm every single time that he
repeated It's when I got to the front of line,
I was, you know, I was like, did you audition
for this job? You know? I said, do you enjoy
repeating you? He goes, I love this job. I've been
doing this. He couldn't have been more than twenty five
(25:07):
years old. He says, I've been doing this for seven years.
I absolutely love doing this.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
But I also saw that in the parking lot as
soon as you got out of the car, there was
a friendly person saying welcome to the masters.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Isn't it crazy? Yep? And you hear that about twenty
times even before you get in the gate. Yep. The
security guards. There's members in green jackets. People think that
AUGUSTA members are aloof and you never see them. I mean,
they're captains of industry. They're very successful people. But there
are three or four members who are assigned to the
(25:40):
parking lots and that's what they you know. And before
you get through the gates there they're saying hello, and
they're welcoming and welcoming you in again. Like you look
at there are businesses that do that. Buckets happens to
be another one where you get a warm greeting. Another
one I have in the in the book is Public's
supermarket chain. Also in the South, and Publics has what
(26:03):
they call they have a couple rules. They have a
ten second rule, which is every customer has to be
greeted within ten seconds of coming into your department. And
it just makes a big difference, right, it's that same
and you know it's supermarket, it's not it's not a
golf tournament run by a lot of affluent people. But
it makes a huge difference, and they have a huge, uh,
(26:27):
you know, customer satisfaction rating as a result. That's just
that's just one of the small things that they do.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Just one of the small things. You you briefly dropped
his name in, but we need to talk more about
Cliff Roberts. We hear a lot about Bobby Jones, obviously,
especially on this show because doctor Bob Jones, the fourth
his grandson, has been a regular on this show, nice
and telling stories about his grandfather, who he refers to
(26:54):
as bubb for the last number of years. But we
really don't hear a lot about the thumb print that
Cliff Roberts put on Augusta National.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yep. Yeah, I talk about a lot of the things
that Roberts does in the book, and one of the
things I speculate about is he was never diagnosed with OCD,
but in my opinion, he definitely had it. So, you know,
aside from only, he hated dirty money, so he made
(27:28):
sure there is only clean and brand new bills there.
He also made sure that every picture in the clubhouse
has to have two hooks on it so that no
pictures are ever crooked. They make sure that the pine
straw around the trees is raked in a clockwise fashion only.
So if you look at at the Masters, Jones was
(27:55):
the reason most people came to the tournament. Both fans
came to the tournament, and that's the reason it got
established as a major, because the pros came to honor
Bobby Jones. But everything behind the scenes was really Roberts.
Jones really operated at a high level, let's say thirty
(28:16):
thousand feet. Roberts got into the detail of everything and
one of the reasons that the Master's broadcast to this
day is still so good. Those are the things that
Roberts laid down as the law. Right. He didn't want commercials.
(28:37):
He didn't want it commercial. He set it up so
that the agreements with the broadcasters are year to year,
so if they don't like what is going on. They
have control over it. And he would sit down with
CBS executives after every year and he would critique and say,
I like this, I don't like this. So again, one
(28:58):
of the reasons he he made the TV broadcast so
good is he said, look, I don't like chatty conversation.
I don't like broadcasters talking all the time. And for
any of your listeners that watch golf, which I'm sure
most of them do, it's very annoying. It's it's it's
sort of like the broadcasters feel like they can't have
(29:23):
any dead space, they can't have any quiet there.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
This business.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
And Roberts said, the last thing I want is quote
unquote chatty conversation. I don't want that. Golfers want useful information.
So a good example of that is if you go back,
I know you've had Jim Mantz as a guest on
your show. If you go back and look at his
most famous call, which was eighty six when Jack Nicholas
(29:53):
was charging for his last green jacket. That is where
he says the bear has come out of hibernation. If
you actually go and you listen to that, there are
long pauses and periods of silence even throughout that. After
Nant says the bear has come out of hibernation, he's
(30:16):
silent and nobody else talks. And the same thing if
you look at the most famous call with Tiger woodshot
on the sixteenth hole, where Verne Lunquist screams in your life,
have you ever seen that? After that, nobody says anything
for twenty seconds because they knew. You know that those
are the types of things that Cliff Roberts instilled in it,
(30:39):
And the fact that there's four minutes of commercials makes
it fantag fantastic. Roberts was just dead set against commercialism.
And I think I have a quote in the book
on this where one of the former chairmen said, we'd
rather shut the tournament down than have it be the
pizza hut masters. They just they don't they don't want
(31:00):
commercialism to be a part of it. And that goes
back to to what Cliff Roberts said he was, he
was the detail man.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Yeah. Well, you you repeat multiple times throughout the book
that it's not about the money.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
No, it's not, it's not about the money at all.
If you look at if you look at like take
take the ability to buy anything. I notice you have
a Master's set on. The Only way to buy a
Master's brandy gear is to go and buy it in
person at the Masters. Certainly you can buy it in
the secondary market on eBay or other websites, but you
(31:36):
know you're paying a huge markup. Now, Augusta, they could
flood the zone. They could. They could make Masters items
available throughout you know, they could, they could, anybody could
buy it. They don't want to do that, they don't
need the money. They could certainly raise the price of
a sandwich, right instead of costing two fifty or five
dollars for a beer, they could double or triple those
(31:58):
and people would still buy them. It's just it's it's
they it's again, it's part of the ethos and they
they Yeah, it's just a core part of the club.
And again I give throughout the book, I give credit
to all the chairmen and members of the club over
the last hundred years that have stuck to that. It's
(32:20):
one thing for Jones and Roberts to say that, it's
another thing for the club to live up to those principles.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And it's the Old South.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Yeah, it's the Old South very much. I agree, and
it's created some crazy things. One of one of one
of my favorite things in the book is I don't
know how much people know about these The Masters has
these gnomes. They have limited edition garden gnomes. They're about
a foot toall. They won't tell you how many of
them in classic and classic Masters fashion. They don't tell
(32:52):
you a lot of things about what goes on behind
the scenes. They don't tell you how many of them
they issue per year. But I tell us story where
and I actually spoke to this individual. It's a millennial.
He lives in suburban Georgia. He bought the garden home.
The first year it was thirty nine dollars and fifty cents.
In twenty sixteen he bought it. He sold it in
(33:14):
twenty twenty four for eighty nine hundred dollars. So that
tells you a couple of things, right. It tells you,
Number one, how much people really value what you know.
Anything with a Master's logo on it is worth something.
You can travel anywhere in the world and people know
what the Master's logo is about. But it also it's
(33:38):
it's one of the ten principles I talk about in
the book, which is how do you use scarcity to
create value? Right? They've perfected that you can only buy
their things seven days a year in person, that's you
use scarcity and things create value. And the company in
the book that I use as an example where other
(34:02):
companies can do it outside is Ermes, the French high
end fashion retailer. You know they make the Birken bags
and they also limit those and they don't you basically
can't buy them, but they won't tell you how many
they make. So again it's just another example of how
you can take some of the things that Augusta does
and replicate them. But imagine buying something for thirty nine
(34:25):
fifty and selling it for almost nine thousand dollars. I mean,
hedge funds don't even have that rate of return.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
So I need to share like my purchasing history when
I was there this year, And it still makes me
laugh when I do it, because I knew that I
wasn't aware that the scarcity mentality that they had about that,
but I knew I was going to have to buy
gifts for people I'm you know, my friends. I don't
(35:01):
have the opportunity that I had, and so I literally
went online starting to look for it, like, well, I
can get some hats cheaper and then I'll just buy
them and give them my friends say. I was there
and there was nothing. I couldn't mind anything, right, And
my son who he and I have been like who's
going to go first? Who's going to go first? You know?
(35:22):
And I never thought I was going to get to go,
and he was convinced he was going to go. I
went Wednesday and Thursday. He went Friday and Saturday. But
I was the guest of a member. So he said,
You've got to get me a hat from Augusta National.
That has Augusta National. I'm like, okay, I will, I
will find one. So I the first as soon as
(35:45):
we went through the gates, we went right to the
pro shop for the members that we got to go into.
We had the special members passes, and I asked him
when I said, do you have Augusta National hats? Like, no,
only Master's hats. And that was the end of the conference.
I'm like, oh, okay, Well, so I text my son, no,
there's no it's just Master is not a gust National.
(36:07):
So I'm still looking around and I'm shopping, and my
first shopping experience while I was there and I buy
the hat that I'm wearing right now for you. And
then my son, when I saw him two weeks later,
he's like, where'd you get that hat? And I said, well,
I bought it in the pro shop. It was the
one that I kind of liked it a lot and
(36:28):
it fit me really well. So yeah, I bought this
hat and he goes, well, that was only available in
the member's pro shop. Why didn't you get me that hat.
I'm like, I had no idea. They just told me
there were none, and he's like, well, give me the hat.
I'm like, no, I'm not going to give me the hat.
I love this hat. I'm going to wear this hat
a lot. And I don't wear baseball caps, but I'm
going to wear this hat a lot because we know
(36:49):
you got to give it. I'm not going to give
it to you. I love you, but I'm not going
to give you my hat. And he goes, well, that's okay,
I'll get it when you die. Okay, great, that's something
to look forward to. Then that's all you're getting from
me is my hat.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
That's funny. Yeah, there's a whole most people wouldn't even
wouldn't even know, like.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Somebody offered me one thousand dollars in the market, a
trader Joe. Someone came up and goes, real, there're this
here and yeah, and he goes, I want your hat.
I'm like no, he goes, no, I'll give you a
thousand bucks. I'm like, no, my son wants it, and
he goes, I'll get and he followed me around the
market and we said goodbye, and then he came back
to my wife and he says, can you please get
him to give me the hat. I'm like, no, you
(37:32):
can't have that.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
And my son's like, you didn't take one thousand dollars
for the hat, and I'm like, no, it's going to
give it to you. He goes, I'd sell it for those.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, but one of the lines that you have here
just hit me right between the eyes. It was paid
one hundred ninety two. So excited to attend the Masters,
and I'm sure if they will ever return. Patrons sometimes
lose their senses, they do. That was me. That was me.
(38:09):
I went shopping four times in the two days that
I was there. I bought a home, only the little
one because they were out of the big ones and.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I went the big one's the big ones fell out
the door. Yeah, the big ones.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
They do have a small one. And I spend I
and this is of course, I know I'm never going
to play and I you know, if I go shopping
in a pro shop because oh I'm never gonna play
this course again, or I had a great round or
something like that, I'll go right to the sales rack
and if I have to, I'll move beyond that and
spend ninety dollars. I spent eighteen hundred dollars YEP in
(38:45):
four trips. Luckily they let you go back to your
car and come back.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Yes, they also went nuts. They also allow you to
They have a UPS shipping station there. You can just
walk out of the pro shop. They'll box it up
and and you can send it to yourself. The average
spend is four hundred and fifty dollars more or less
(39:10):
there and they asked, I have this in the book too,
because again it's that whole scarcity factor. They asked one
of the ladies that was working check out, what's the
biggest purchase she ever saw, and she said twenty thousand dollars,
So that could be there's a lot of people that
(39:31):
just go to the Masters and get tickets just to
sell on eBay. She said, basically they bought like three
of everything. To me, that sounds like a reseller, which
at some point, you know, it's very very difficult, if
not impossible, to resell Masters tickets now they're all coded
and if you try to sell them, they'll deactivate the ticket.
(39:52):
I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they do
the same thing with people that are trying to resell,
because they really One of the things that they do
exceptionally well, and I go through this in the book
is nothing is more important than the brand. You alluded
to it, right, It's not about money. They could certainly
make more money by doing a lot of different things.
They could start to charge the broadcasters, for instance, but
(40:16):
they are just very protective of the brand, which in
the long run makes all the sense in the world. Right,
look at that little logo on your hat. How much
that's worth. That's the brand, exactly right. It's not always
about money, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
They also get the right people to do this. You
talk about in the book about how they their national
the chief Merchandise and Creative Services Officer correct, give you
a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Yes, So I would say the most frequent comment I
hear from people, even when you're on property or after
the fact, is it feels like an adult Disneyland. And
part of that is there everybody's aim is to have
(41:05):
you feel good that day, and everybody, like you said before,
bathroom attendance, people that are checking you out after you
buy your permento, cheese sandwich, et cetera. But one of
the things that they do exceptionally well that I think
they don't get enough credit for is the way they
manage talent. And the example I give is they hired
(41:28):
someone who ran the merchandising operation for Walt Disney, and
I think that person's been at the club for a
dozen years or so. And if you look at what
they've done in terms of merchandise and what they offer
over that dozen years, they've greatly expanded the size of
the of the pro shop that you go into buy
(41:50):
Master's gear, and they now do brand partnerships with selected
brands that are only high quality. That's just one example.
So obviously, you know, the three hundred members of Augusta
are all very successful people. They can't do the day,
the day today, and when you go, if you sit
(42:11):
down and you have lunch, you know, to a person,
all the people that you're dealing with are cheerful. And
I don't I don't know any other company or brand
or location in the world. You know, Disney's probably the
closest where everybody is that good. So again I couldn't
find out what they do exactly in terms of their
(42:33):
training program. But I don't know how you get every
single person on a location to be that up beaten,
chirpy all the time. It's it's it's an exceptional part
of what they do, and to me, they don't get
enough credit for that. But again, I think it's talent management.
It's going out, it's finding the right people, it's paying
them well, it's grooming them and taking care of them.
(42:57):
There's there's just so many and that again, that's one
of the reasons when where I started out as a
golf book and then transitioned over. You know, it's still
seventy eighty percent golf and golf fans will will really
enjoy the book, even if they're not, you know, into
making business decisions. But it's just really interesting some of
(43:19):
the decisions that they've made. The other thing that they
don't get enough credit for. Right, It's it's essentially a
lot of wealthy people that are successful. They're not young,
you know they and I give an example, they have
a technology committee and the average age of their technology
committee is sixty five years old. But arguably they are
(43:43):
one of the best users of technology in the world
across any industry. If you use the Master's app, if
you look at what they do in terms of their broadcast,
or you can go and you can just watch Amen Corner.
You can watch every shot of any player they're on.
(44:05):
I think it's fifteen different social media channels. I mean,
you know, you and I aren't aren't Spring chickens either.
But they're huge users of TikTok. Right. The average age
of a TikTok user is is high teens, right, and
most most TikTok users are in Asia or Latin America.
(44:26):
They're very sophisticated in terms of how they use technology.
And it's and it's one of the lessons that to
me that really came out as I started to analyze
the company. And frankly, when you go outside the Master's
most you know, Masters only uses technology to help you.
(44:49):
And most technology and I use a couple of examples
in the books. Try calling your cable company or your
power company or ups. First of all, you're not going
to get anybody. You're going to get at some phone
tree that's mind numbing and it's going to take you
five minutes to get through that. When you get through that,
you're going to get to some chatbot that doesn't work,
and then maybe you're going to be put on hold
(45:10):
for twenty minutes. That's the way most companies use technology.
They're using it to prevent you from getting to a person.
They're using it to save money. And again there's a
huge lesson in there about how you don't have to
do that. And I use a company in of all places,
a pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin, called you Line, and they sell
(45:34):
shipping supplies and cardboard boxes and stuff. When you call
you Line, the phone never rings. Go look up their
eight one hundred number and dial their number. I guarantee
the phone will in a second or less. The head
of the company says, we pick up the phones faster
(45:54):
than nine one one when you dial nine to one one,
and he's right, it's incredible. That's that's an that's a
brilliant use of technology. So again it's a it's a small,
relatively small, privately held company. It's just another good example
of how if you use technology wisely, you can actually
help people and create a better environment. And it's another
(46:17):
good example of how the world can be more like
the Masters if more companies and decision makers decided that
it was it was a good goal and worthy to
do that.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
To me, what stands out about your book what I
enjoyed so much is how you take a business view
of something that all golfers and many non golfers appreciate,
and that is what The Masters represents, not only to
the sport, but also to the passage of time. It's like,
(46:55):
when the Masters happens, it's ah, it's springtime. It's time
to start thinking about and going out and playing golf again.
Why is it in the book that you felt that
the Masters would fly over the heads of private equity people.
Going back into the business element of.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
It, Yeah, one of the things I did is so
if I look, I have something like twenty twenty two
or twenty four companies that I compare The Masters to.
So it's it's it's Disney it's you line, it's Bucky's,
but it's also you know, places like publics and stuff.
(47:39):
And one of the things I did when I started
to analyze it, even though publics is a huge supermarket,
it's employee owned. And eighty percent of the companies that
I ended up comparing to from in the book were
either employee owned or privately owned, and the other twenty percent,
(48:01):
and frankly most I give a lot of examples of
companies that do a horrible job, almost all of them
were owned by they're either public big public companies, or
they were owned by private equity. So it's not something
I came in and said, this is something I want
to try to prove or disprove. I just looked at
and analyzed as I went through it, and I think,
(48:22):
fred it comes back to just money. If if you're
in private equity and you're investing in something and you
want to get a return on it, what's your time horizon?
Right Augusta's time horizon. They're looking at twenty thirty years
and they're thinking about the brand. They're not thinking about money.
So same thing. If your employee owned, you're going to
(48:46):
do everything you can to make sure that the company
is successful, because if the company does well, you do well.
It's just a matter of the incentives, I think. And
obviously there are public companies like Disney that do a
good job. But my experience, the bigger the company, the
more bureaucratic, and companies that are that are owned by
(49:09):
private equity and and and other owners that are just
looking to milk it and make money out of it,
to me, they don't. They don't live the principle. Certainly,
there's going to be exceptions. I'm sure I'll get calls
from people that are in private equity complaining about that comment,
but as a general rule that that's what I found
as I analyzed.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
The book interesting. You also, and I hope it's okay
to talk about this. You were quite revealing about your
personal story. Yes, you even said I've lived two lives.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
I have. Yeah, yeah, I think the way I describe
it is the first life was I mean, I was.
I was wildly successful, given you know, I didn't excel
at school. I was fantastic at sports, but I ended
(50:03):
up doing very well in business. I have a fantastic family.
I played the top hundred courses, right, I mean it
was a dream life, and then in twenty eighteen, I
was diagnosed with leukemia and my first life ended in
one day. Leukemia is cancered the blood, and I had
(50:23):
a particular strain that is very deadly, unfortunately, so they
put me in an ambulance. I went to the hospital.
I wasn't allowed to leave for thirty days. I had
a bone marrow transplant and since then, you know, there's
a lot of complications. I'm lucky to be alive. Let
(50:44):
me just say first and foremost that I'm not complaining
about anything. Every day is a gift. I'm happy to
be here. But you know, I deal with a lot
of issues from the bone marrow transplant. And it sounds goofy,
but you know, when I was in the hospital and
I had some moments that were not so great, and
(51:05):
you know, I obviously wanted to get out to be
with my family and my friends and so forth, but
I also dreamed about one day, like returning to go
back to the Masters. As odd as that sounds, because
you know, I'm stuck in After you have a bone
marrow transplant, It's sort of like the Seinfeld episode with
the bubble Boy. You're stuck in a room. When nurses
(51:27):
and doctors come in, they have to put on special equipment.
You're not allowed to leave the room for thirty days.
You know. I'm hooked up to five or six different
monitors and ivs and so forth. It's such an antiseptic
environment and it really just crushes the soul. And to me,
(51:47):
the best place in the world. And you've been there,
anybody that's been there. When you're standing by the thirteenth
Green or you're near Amen Corner, it's heaven. And I
just you know, one of the things that motivated me
to write the book is I just wanted to know
more about it. I wanted to go back, and I
did a couple of years after. You know, my doctor said, no,
(52:12):
you really can't go. You can't fly. You don't have
a good immune system. You know. She was hemming and
horn and eventually I say in the book, I say,
you know, like most people don't know a lot about golf,
the majority of people out there, but they know what
the Masters is. And you know, she's seventy years old,
my oncologist, she has no clue about golf, but she
(52:35):
knows what the Masters is. You know, she recognizes the
theme song and she'll watch on Sunday. That's the only
golf she ever watches. So she gave me permission and
we ended up going back and I said, you know,
that's when my mental healing began. You know, the doctors
that treated me did a phenomenal job. I'm forever grateful
(52:56):
to what they did, but it just beats you down
spiritually and mentally, and for me, everybody's got something different.
That's one of the things I really wanted to do.
So call it an obsession about Augusta National or the Masters,
whatever you want, but that's one of the things I
dreamed of and I've been working on the book for
(53:17):
three years and it's just been a dream project for
me because I can't get enough things Augusta. I just
love everything about what they do because, as you know,
you've been there, and hopefully you know, people listening if
they haven't been able to go and keep trying the lottery,
eventually you'll win. I won the lottery last year for
(53:40):
the first time ever. It took fifteen years to win,
so there's hope for anybody to go. And it's I
think it should be a life goal of anybody because
you know, Disneyland is for kids, but Augusta's for adults.
And it's hard to describe right, as much as I
try to do it in the book, unless you have
(54:02):
actually been on property and experience at firsthand, it's very
difficult to relate that, which is why people are so
insane when they come back from the Masters and they
lose their minds when they go into the pro shop,
because it's like you're a kid at a candy story.
You're like, I finally made it, and I might never
come back. So I'm going to buy everything, and I'm
(54:22):
going to give a gift to everybody I know. Yep,
it's not uncommon, Fred, not uncommon.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Well, good gee, that makes me feel better. Well, here's
a little gift for you. John.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Oh awesome, best song in the world.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yeah, you know, there are probably I can think of
three life goals for golfers. One would be a hole
in one yep. Two getting to witness the Masters in person. Yeah,
And to me, my ultimate one now is someday shooting
(54:59):
my ag.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah. That's a good one too. Yeah. Yeah. So it's.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
I hope you're well now, Yes, thank you. I'm so
sorry about all the troubles that you've been through and.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
I consider myself lucky in many respects. But thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, and I consider myself lucky because I
got a chance to talk to you again and about
this book again. I think if anybody listening, if in
fact you have or are part of a business that
you want to help grow, yeah, to look at this
book and take it seriously. It's called The Augusta Principles.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Right, yes, thank you, Fred.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Please please share with us how to find more about
the book about you where to get it.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, there's a website. I think I sent the link
with this episode. There's a website called the Augusta Principles
that people could visit or google or the books available
on am on a lot of people buy it on Amazon.
But thank you for that, Fred.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yep, absolutely, John, it was great to catch up again
after so long. I can't believe the Gulf Smarter is
still going on and that we were able to reconnect
after so many years.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
Ye. Well, your podcast is so good, that's why you've
been doing it for so long.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Fred, No, I'm just I've got that, you know, the
OCD thing that we talked about with Clip Roberts, like
can't stop just can't stop because if I do, I'll
never come back. I gotta keep going. But it's it's
been an incredible journey, and I'm so glad to have
you help me put it all together. On both sides.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Oh, pleasure is mine.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Thanks again, Thank you, Fred
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