August 29, 2025 • 37 mins
GS#429 March 25, 2014 In the last episode, we stumped Richard Todd on a few details of specific rules. In part 2 we get the correct explanation and discuss other rules that are broken regularly because we don’t know the exact USGA wording or ruling.
Unlike the painfully dry legalese of the USGA's Rules of Golf, Richard's book takes you on a round with a typical foursome as they encounter...and break.. the rules. http://TheGolfRules.com
In addition to being a lifelong golfer, Richard’s also one of the original Golf Smarter listeners from 2005.
Get more when your visit the refreshed golfsmarter.com!
This episode is brought to you by 5Hour Energy. 5-hour ENERGY Transfusion flavor is available online or in stores. Head to 5hourENERGY.com and order yours today!
Check out "Invested in the Game", a new original podcast from Charles Schwab. This podcast is their way of sharing the incredible stories behind the game. Listen now at schwab.com/TheGame or wherever you get your podcasts.
This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply.
This episode is sponsored by HIMS. Start your free online visit today HIMS.com/golfsmarter and received personalized ED treatment options.
This episode is brought to you by RULA. Find a therapist or psychiatric provider who specializes in you at rula.com/golfsmarter.
Unlike the painfully dry legalese of the USGA's Rules of Golf, Richard's book takes you on a round with a typical foursome as they encounter...and break.. the rules. http://TheGolfRules.com
In addition to being a lifelong golfer, Richard’s also one of the original Golf Smarter listeners from 2005.
Get more when your visit the refreshed golfsmarter.com!
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This episode is brought to you by 5Hour Energy. 5-hour ENERGY Transfusion flavor is available online or in stores. Head to 5hourENERGY.com and order yours today!
Check out "Invested in the Game", a new original podcast from Charles Schwab. This podcast is their way of sharing the incredible stories behind the game. Listen now at schwab.com/TheGame or wherever you get your podcasts.
This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply.
This episode is sponsored by HIMS. Start your free online visit today HIMS.com/golfsmarter and received personalized ED treatment options.
This episode is brought to you by RULA. Find a therapist or psychiatric provider who specializes in you at rula.com/golfsmarter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Golf Smarter number four hundred and twenty nine, published on
April twenty five, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
If you're practicing, that's not a stroke. That's a swing
because you don't have intent to hit the ball. So
you know, quite often we're practicing a little too close
and we knock it off. That is not a stroke.
There is no penalty for.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
That, okay, So let me try to graphically explain this one.
So your go to address the ball, you place your
driver right down next to it, and it taps the
ball and the ball falls off the tee.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
That is not a stroke.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That is not a stroke. Because you'll have guys in
your forest and all. That's one and you can turn
around and say no, it's not right, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Good. On the opposite side, you can swing with the
intent of putting it out there and it go two inches.
That it would have that is a stroke and that
is your ball played.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
More on the Golf Rules Stroke Play with Richard Todd.
This is Golf Smarter. Welcome back to Golf Smarter, Richard.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Thanks so much, Bred, it's great.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
To have you on again. I want to get right
back into the conversation about your fun little book called
the Golf Rules Stroke Play. Learn the rules of golf
by watching others break them again, a fun little read.
I was picking your brain. I'm so curious. You know,
now that you have the book out, do you talk
(01:53):
to people about rules or do you get a sense
that people always follow the rules or that they admit
they broke the rule? Do you get any sense of that?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yes? Actually, I was just at the Cleveland Golf Show.
Twenty five thousand people came through, and most everybody I'm
sure it's tongue in cheek, but it's a lot of
smart alec comments saying, oh, we don't play by the rules,
we don't need the rules, I don't like the rules,
those kind of things. Although we know that at least
to a great extent, everybody plays by the rules. You
(02:25):
might have your personal ones that you like to bend
a little as you were saying before. Inside the leather
is good, but overall, selling the rule book was akin
to setting up an alcoholics anonymous table at a bar.
At least, that was my takeaway from everybody that came by.
(02:48):
Loved the idea, but they were shy of admitting that
they knew less than everything.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So they don't admit that they're breaking the rules, but
they also won't admit that they know the rules exactly. Wow. Well, uh,
I'll fall in that kind of I know, I admit,
I admit I know there are rules that I break
because I just don't care. I think that they're absurd.
I think that there's some of these rules are just
ridiculous and I and it's it's part of my whole
(03:23):
issue with the us GA and having a driver up there,
you know up It just drives me crazy. Why to me,
so many of these rules are to be And I
know I'm gonna really upset a lot of people with this,
but I get the sense that these rules are to
be the advocate for the golf course, not the advocate
(03:47):
for the golfer.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I've heard you say.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
That before, and it never made sense to you then,
And it doesn't make sense to you.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I know, I understand what you're saying, but I have
more of a perspective after dealing with the USGA and
for the book and going through the rural school, and
to make another metaphor, I feel like the USGA is
a police officer. Nobody wants to see a police car
(04:20):
in their rear view mirror with the lights on, but
when somebody is trying to break into their house, they
don't mind calling nine one one for some reason. That's
just the way people feel. You know, if you're speeding,
it's very simple. You know, here's the speed limit. If
(04:41):
you break it, there's the potential for the penalty.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So if you're a victim, that's one thing. If you're
the perpetrator.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Exactly, so you know, the question is that you are
you're breaking the rule intentionally and you're trying to get
away with something or is it an accident and you
just need to talk your way out of the two
stroke Banetley Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Fine, so let's let's let's pick into the book. I
would love to go over some of the rules that
seem to be common mistakes or common misinterpretations or just
I didn't know that type of rules and so I'd
love to do two things. One, I'm going to ask
you a series of questions and see if we can
(05:23):
get a ruling from our official, even though you're not
the official, you wrote a book. And then also, if anybody,
let's just do this. If anybody has any rules questions
they're not sure of and would like clarification, send me
an email. I'll get Richard on Skype and we'll do
(05:44):
a little video of Richard explaining that rule to you.
I mean, and if it works or not. So just
go click on the Hey Fred button and send me
your question and we'll get Richard to answer the question.
So Richard here, let's start right at the tea box.
Is there's rules there, you know, like are the rules
where the your playing partners are allowed or not allowed
(06:09):
to stand while you're teeing off?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
There are not rules, but that's an etiquette.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Issue and that's in the next book.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That is in the next book. You know. The tea box,
of course, is an interesting thing. It is defined by
the tea markers, which actually the tea box goes to
the outside of the tea markers. So if you depending
on if you have the little balls or blocks, it
actually extends on the outside.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Of that how far outside just to.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
The end of it, right to the outside outside edge, right,
and it's two club blanks back. Granted that don't remember
the USGA specifying which club. But you know, for some people,
like there's an issue in the book where one of
the players knows he it's his eight iron one hundred
(07:01):
and thirty five yards and the tea markers at one
hundred and thirty and so he backs up five yards. Well,
that was outside of the actual defined tea box. And
so that's something you can't do, okay, because if you're
playing outside of the tea box, you effectively didn't tee
off properly, then you can qualification.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right. Are you allowed to not use a T on
the tea box, Yes, but you're not allowed to use
a T anywhere else. But I'm just making I'm just
asking here.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I've heard that starters should do that. But yes, no,
you cannot use a tee throughout the green or through
the green as we were just talking about. Four that's
the definition of the area between the tea box and
the putting green through the green, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And when you say that, you can set up two
club lengths generally, I would think that's people using their driver.
Whenever there's a two club length thing, people pull out
the longest club, which would be the driver. Right. Usually
you can't use your you're not you're not allowed to
use your ball retriever that has still a scopic ball retriever,
(08:18):
right right, Okay, So.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And the interesting thing with that is the ball has
to be in the T box.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, That's what I was going to ask, is like
can the ball be well, it can't be right to
the outside edge because you may hit it. But if
you put the ball like right, say you're a right
handed hitter and you go to the tea box when
you're facing the fairway the T box, it's on the
(08:43):
far left right, the left side, which is for a
right handed here, so you put the you put the
ball just inside that that marker, but you could stand.
Is it legal to stand outside that?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Okay, good, good to know you.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
You'd have to have a really strange fairway that you'd
want to be able to do that, but yeah, it's
an option.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Well no, I mean it's like I know when like
when I go bowling. Okay, And it's a weird analogy here,
and you know you're from Ohio. You bowl, Oh yeah,
it was not good. So anyway, so like you know,
you got the seven to ten, you know the outside
pins right, you got the ten pin over on the
far right. Now, to me, it makes much more sense
(09:32):
to start on the far left of the lane and
give yourself the angle to go at it. Then try
to just hug the ball straight down the right side
and hope that it hits it right. So for me,
the same thing. If my target line is to put
the ball on the right side of the fairway to
give me a better angle to approach the green, then
I'm going to hit from the left side of the
(09:53):
t box.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
It's something you could do.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yes, okay, that's not a rule thing. That's just how
I approach it. It's like, yeah, I'll hit on the
far side. I think, now you've listened, because I don't
listen to my interviews when I'm doing them. I'm just
like recording them so I hear. But I remember when
I asked when I had the woman at TPC Scottsdale
and I asked her if she noticed anything, and she
(10:19):
she said to me, oh, yeah, you tea up on
the right side of the tea box every time, and
I'm like, I do. I don't think I do, And
she said that I do.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
That is exactly what came into my mind when you
gave your description.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Is what she said. Yes, dude, you're not supposed to
take notes on the on the shows. You're just supposed
to listen. It's a podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a great podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Stop. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I appreciate that's very nice.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Can you tell people in my family that it's like
we're thet They're like, why do you still do that?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Okay, let's go to the book.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, you kidding, it's it's already in a frame and no,
it's going to be though. I'm just so touched. Water hazards.
Let's get back to because we talked about water hazards
and you know, I kind of caught you off guard there.
Let's go over the water. You've done a little research, now,
(11:12):
what can you tell me?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
First, we're talking about We mentioned water hazards versus lateral
water hazards before, and the lateral water hazard can actually
be part of a water hazard, but the lateral part
is positioned so that you can't play behind it. You're
(11:36):
outside of the you can't drop a ball behind the
water hazard and still be in the playing area. That
goes back to what we were saying. Okay, so there's
four things you can do when you're in a water hazard.
First one is play it as it lies. And this
is one of those things you got to think about
for a second because most people like, well, my ball's
in the water, how can I play it? Well, your
(11:57):
ball doesn't have to be in the water to be
in a water hazard. You know, if you see those
those red lines or the red steaks, you're you could
technically be in the water hazard but still have a
nice dry approach way.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Oh caught you with that one. Huh.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, no, it's like, say, say that the golf course,
you know, the water begins and there's crocodiles, you know,
the waters there, and the ball is like three or
four inches before it gets into the water, and yet
there's a red line that's been spray painted onto the
grass about two feet away from the water. Now that
(12:35):
red line is ob is it not?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Now that's well the water that's a water hazard.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Okay, that says it's the water red lines. So even
though it's inside the red line, but not in the water.
You can still hit from there without penalty. Yes, oh okay.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
So you can hink you and as we're saying, you
can go back to the tee or not necessarily a
tea box, but you can go back to where your
last shot was, which may not be in the tea box.
You could have been like a Part five, you could
have put it in the water from your second, third,
or eighth shot. So there's number two three is we're
talking about dropping a ball online from the tee or
(13:23):
not the t the flag stick behind the water hazard,
and you can go as far back as you want, but.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You have to stay online from where you pull the
ball out the line, not the line your ball flight was,
but the line to the flag.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, where it crossed the water hazard to the flag.
And there are options where you were saying about dropping
within two club links, not near the hole. Now, an
interesting part on that one is we know closer to
the hole, we can see that, but that line goes
(14:03):
left and right, so you literally could possibly drop on
the other side of the water being the same distance
from the hole. It's an interesting one. The rule book
does have a nice little diagram for that, and I'm
sure the USG website also discusses that or has that
same graphic. But again, this just goes to show you
(14:28):
why it's so difficult to play by the rules. Yeah,
as opposed to just take it back and hit another one,
as you were saying before, you could hit a provisional,
but there are other options.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah. Then I'm still not clear on when you're allowed
to just move the ball, the difference between taking the
ball all the way back to where you originally hit
or just saying, you know, out it's over here, but
(15:04):
I'm moving it so it's in play here and hitting
it here and taking hitting three versus going back to
the T box hitting three. Is there an instance where
I'm allowed to hit it from where it is out
of bounds and just move it laterally and then take
my third shot from there? Is that legal?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Every I'm trying to say yes, but I'm having a
tough time remembering the exact situation.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah. Yeah, We're gonna have to do a little more
research on that one.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
But yeah, that goes back to your question you ask
me a little earlier. Do people come up and ask
me rule questions? And that happened a lot at the
golf show. And I'm an author. I'm not a rules
official for the USGA, so I will from time to
time just like everybody else. Forget how that rule goes.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Dude, you're a compliance guy.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
It doesn't mean we're always right. That's our goal.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Well that you know. I don't believe the rules are
always right, but I have to play by them. He's
not comment on that. No, Okay, are you? Are we
there more water hazard things that we should know?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yes, but you know that's more than enough for today.
All right, so much to have fun with?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, right, right, right right? Let's see what about testing hazards?
What is the ruling on that? What does that mean?
Like you know with bunkers? I remember that? Is that
a us open Like if it's if.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You know, are you talking about Let's see what was
that Johnson?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Was that Dustin Johnson?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Justin Johnson?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
If it's it's a hazard?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And he was like that he got penalized and laws
It was like terrible.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
You know, it's funny. Is I actually struck up a
conversation with one of the presenters at last year's Real
School about that, and he was laughing because he was
there and he was telling me how every caddy and
player was told over and over and again, you know
they were they were shown where all the bunkers are at.
And even as I guess as Dustin was going up there,
(17:24):
his caddy was told, that's a that's a bunker hazard.
So what we see on TV doesn't always actually happen
is the way we think it does. Uh, and sometimes
they just don't pay attention. So uh, but yes, to
answer your question, you can. You can dig your feet in.
You can, I think the rules call that getting a
(17:46):
firm stance. Uh. You cannot take a practice stroke that
means hitting the sand, but you can take a practice
swing into the air. Again, that goes back to your
h the legal descriptions of swing versus stroke.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Like my ball versus the A ball.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Right right, So as long as you don't swing into
the sand, you're okay in those in those situations.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Okay, okay. So then testing hazards no, no, correct, cannot
have your club touch the hazard while practicing correct, Okay,
don't do it. Don't do that, but they have to
be designated. Now, obviously that was tournament play and there
(18:41):
was you know, like that hazard that he got penalized
for it was like the size of a size seven shoe, right,
and I.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Believe there were a spectator standing in it too, Yeah, exactly.
It makes it even more difficult to.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh that was so painful. Yeah, that was so painful. Okay,
So you really, if you're just playing, you should know
your course. But I mean they're probably.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
No, there are, Yes, that's always an interesting question to
ask before you t off, you know, at the starter
and what is defined as the hazards on the courses,
and you know they'll always give you recommendations and suggestions
and things to watch out for because you know they
(19:30):
know the course and they want you to have a
good time.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yes, sure they do, all right, Well, they want you
to come back, that's what they want. You care if
you enjoy yourself or not. They want you to shoot
on hundred and thirty. So then then I guess that
would bring up the conversation about debris or what are
they called obstacles or impediments.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Loose or faced impediments and.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Fixed.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yes, I'm sorry, I'm losing my thought process again.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
And I understand that. I apologize. You know, we're three
hours difference on time zone, and I'm just throughout. You know,
I'm getting it's getting late in your day, and I
apologize you get a pot.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
You had made a comment earlier about the being on
the tee box and knocking the ball off the tee.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, there's gonna go.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
That kind of goes with being in the bunker. Is
it a stroke or is it a swing? If you're
practice practicing, that's uh, not a not a stroke. That's
a swing because you don't have intent to hit the ball.
So you know, quite often we're practicing a little too
(20:47):
close and we knock it off. That is not a stroke.
There is no penalty for that, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
So like so let me let me try to graphically
explain this one. So your tea, you're you've teed up
the ball, you're about to do it. You go to
address the ball, you place your driver right down next
to it, and it taps the ball and the ball
falls off the tee.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
That is that is not a stroke.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
That is not a stroke. Because you'll have guys in
your forest and all going that's one you're and you
can turn around and say no, it's not right, okay, good.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Now on the opposite side, you can swing with the
intent of putting it out there two seventy five and
it go that two inches that it would have. That
is a stroke and that is your ball played. And
some people think, well, okay, I went three inches, let
me just pull it back, put it back on the tee. Well,
(21:42):
effectively you've gone back to what we just talked about,
that stroke and distance, and.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
And then you you do not get to tee it
up again right at that point? Well, no, the balls
you play it where it lies. If you only had
three inches, you got to hit it there, right, okay, okay,
And and but what about uh say you take a
practice swing. No, you take you address the ball. You
(22:10):
take your swing and miss the ball completely. It has happened.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It has happened. And that is a stroke because you
had the intent of hitting it.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So if you swing and miss completely and this was
your swing, but you're missing and the ball is still
sitting exactly where it was when you started, that counts
as a stroke.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
That strike one.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes, oh wow, No I don't do that. I do that. No, never,
never do that. No, but I've seen I've seen it
happen because I don't I play with anybody. It's like, oh,
you've never played golf. Come on, let's go on. This
will be fun. But so that actually counts as a stroke.
(22:54):
That would be defeating if you were that happened to
you and you weren't very good players, Like, well, I
don't want to play. That's going to count.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
At least there's no penalty because you don't have to,
you know, bring the ball back. You're still in a
good lie.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
What do you mean there's no penalty. I didn't hit
it and it counts, well, there's no penalty. But you're right.
I like that you actually said strike one that you
know that counts as a swing. Say you hit your
ball and it goes into the woods, and I hope
(23:27):
I'm okay with this. It goes into the woods and
the ball lands under some stuff that has fallen from
the tree, you know, and then there's a branch here
and there, and there's some leaves and the balls under there.
And what am I allowed to do to make it
so I can get a clean shot at the ball?
Speaker 3 (23:49):
No, we've we saw again. Not to bring up the tour.
There was an interesting one not too long ago. I
think it was down a Hilton head where it was
live thick brush and in the backswing. If you clear
out some of that brush, that is a penalty, even
(24:09):
though I don't know how you could not do it.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Wait live but live brush, yes.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Some tall weeds. Okay, And I think there's been other
people that have called a penalty on themselves or something
which somebody watching from TV at home. But you've got
to be very careful about changing the lie.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
So am I allowed to if it's if it goes
into the fescue and there's all this tall grass around
it and I can get to it. But if I
hit it, it's just going to get caught up in
this tall stuff. So I can't pat down the grass
in front of it on the direction my SHOT's going,
I can't correct.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
You can't go in there and clear out your path.
H Okay, And no, I don't know how you'd really,
I guess just smack away and try.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
To Can you say you know? But you can say listen,
I know that if I try to hit this, it's
not going anywhere. I'm going to take five or six strokes.
I'm stuck in this. Can you just can you say
I'm going to take a drop, I'm going to move
the ball and take a drop over there, you.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Can play it as a drawing a blank on the
terminology shown unplayable.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Lie, unplayable Ie, Okay.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I'm trying to think though, where your drop zone is
at very if I'm sure it's going to be close
to where the ball's at. So if you're if you're
surrounded by fifteen feet of this stuff, I don't think
you're going to get out easily.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Right, But there's a penalty involved with that. I mean
you can.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Exactly right, yes, And that kind of goes back with
the rule you're not trying to get out of trouble
because you know I played the course as it lies.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
No, I'm just trying to get closer.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
You're trying to well, right, but you're trying to get
relief from something that is not normal, like on a
cart path. And that's probably one area that most people
don't understand. You can be on a cart path and
most everybody will drop to the fairway side of the
(26:26):
cart path. Well, that may not be your quote quote
closest point of relief. It depends if you're a right
hand or a left hander. You know, you you literally
have to almost measure where that ball's at and how
far you have to move it so that you can
take a stance to play the ball. And it may
(26:47):
be to the inside, it may be into the rough.
And I've even seen where your closest point of relief
could be right behind a tree. Now you're not taking relief.
You're not trying to better your next shot. You're just
taking relief from the car path. That doesn't mean that
(27:08):
you're going to have a great next shot, but it
means you're not going to hit on the carpath right.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And if you do land on the card path and
you take relief from that, is there a penalty. No,
So you should not hit from the card.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Path unless you have no good relief. I mean you
can get relief from the car path, but that could
put you into a more troublesome position. You could have
roots on one side tree, maybe the dirts all tore up.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Do you remember, now this is funny. Do you remember
the interviews that I did with the caddies at Pebble
Beach a couple of years ago, number of years.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Ago about using some other guy's club.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yes, I love that story. I love the guys, The
guys like they were playing you know, I gotta play
it real, liies gotta play it real lies. And the
guy's like, he landed on the card path and it
was like like it was asphalt. It wasn't just a cement.
It was asphalt, right, So there's rocks in it and
pebbles and it's rough. And the guy was like, oh,
I'm going to just take relief here, and his playing
(28:20):
partner said, no, got to play it where it lies. Now.
Was he wrong?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Well, yes, that's not the rules. The rule says you
could you can take free relief from there. Those two
were they Well, again, they broke the rules before they
even started because they decided that they were going to
play everything down and that was contrary to taking your
a loud relief mm and so yes. And then the
(28:50):
golfer that was hitting asked if he could take a
practice wing, and the golfer said sure, right, took several
practice wings.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
And he took several practice wings and and he's like,
you know, he's making sure. Then there's sparks flying from
the club and you know it's just he's just destroying
the golf club. I loved this story. And finally he
takes the shot and sticks it, puts it right next
to the pin and his playing partner said, wow, that
(29:17):
was a great shot. Which club did you use? And
he said your six iron? I thought that was funny,
now it was it was, But now wait a minute,
using your partner's six iron is illegal? Correct?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Okay? You can share clubs as long as the total
number of clubs don't exceed fourteen.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Whoa total number of clubs that you use and around
or because you may be carrying fourteen, but you're not
going to hit your seven iron at all today, you can't.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
It's in your bag, You're going to use it. Okay,
it's available to you.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Right, So if you're only carrying.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I never thought about that one. He probably he's got
a penalty for having too many clubs, right.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So that you can carry thirteen clubs and say to
your buddy, I didn't bring my hybrid today. Can I
borrow yours? And as long as you've got thirteen clubs
in your bag, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Well, it's okay one way. I'm trying to think of
the other golfer because now he's shared a club. I'm
not sure how that falls. I think he might be Okay,
it gets a little tricky there. Oh, sure, the penalty can.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Go, where's the lawyers when we need them exactly?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Another point about the rules that we're getting into is
it's not always about penalizing yourself. It's about the opportunities
that you missed, like dropping it off the cart path
or taking it out of the embedded life so you
don't take four strokes to move it a foot and
a half. So the rules are there just to try
(30:55):
to make the game more enjoyable, or at least even.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's making the game more enjoyable is being able to
tee it up every time? What about cleaning the ball?
You know sometimes you'll get when where there's win. There
are when people say winter rules, Is that an official designation?
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It is an official designation. It's called preferred lies in
the book, and it's there for the care of the course. Okay,
that hole or maybe the entire grasp because of the
weather conditions. They don't want you taking big chunks of
sod out so you can move the ball slightly so
(31:43):
that you have a better lie, so that you don't
do as much damage to the course.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Sure, but what if you've got a big chunk of
mud on your ball?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
There are times that you can clean the ball, but
just I'm not sure how the preferred lies rolls in
with cleaning your ball. I don't think that that's an
option there. Wow, of course you can clean it on
the putting green.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
On the putting green, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
After your market, before you tee off, you can clean
your ball slightly for identification purposes. You know, you might
have a big clump of dirt, but that dirt might
be right over your marking and you need to be
able to identify. So there are opportunities where you can
(32:32):
touch up the ball a little bit. Playing an unplayable
live believe that's an option too, where you can clean
your ball before you redrop. So, m okay, a lot
of fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
A lot of fun stuff. Let's see, I'm gonna throw
one more at you. Let's see if you can come
up with your ball. You've just hit your ball from
the fairway. You're now on the green, and your playing
partner hits up and comes up short of the green.
He's just on the fringe. And then he goes to
(33:05):
take his next shot from the fringe, and in the
process of hitting it from the fringe, he hits your ball.
Is that a penalty or is that okay, because you
haven't gotten up to mark your ball yet. I mean,
you know, obviously you're going to go mark your ball
what you're allowed to do, right and pick it up. Okay,
But if he hits it from off the green, no
(33:30):
matter what club he's using. And this is one thing
that cracks me up all the time. People say, oh,
I had three putts there. It's like, no, you had
three strokes with your putter, but you only had two
official putts. Correct. Just because you're using your putter doesn't
mean it counts as a putt because people putt from
off the green all the time, right, okay, so excuse me.
(33:52):
So then now, guys, he's using his putter, he's on
the fringe and he hits it and it hits your ball.
Is that a penalty? And if it is, well, whose
ball gets moved? Or do they both? How does that work?
Speaker 3 (34:09):
All? Right? Hopefully I get this right. There is no penalty.
The ball that was there first sitting will be replaced
for no penalty. The player that was just hitting that
knocked the ball. I believe that's a rub of the
green and his ball stays where it bounced off.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So one gets moved The ball that's originally there gets
moved back to where it was, and the other one
wherever it ricocheted onto that stays where it is, right, Okay,
Now he hits that shot and it trickles from the fringe.
He hits his approach shot, it trickles just over the
fringe and makes it onto the first two inches of
the green. Now he's actually putting on the green, and
(34:51):
you still haven't moved your ball because you're on the
opposite of the green, and for whatever reason, and he
puts it and it hits you your ball. Is that
a penalty?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
How much of a penalty?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Two strokes? Most everything is two strokes for match or
for stroke play. Match play is usually the loss of whole.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Okay, okay, So two strokes meaning I'm hitting my third shot.
Let's see, I'm hitting you hit hitting my third shot.
I hit his ball for my my third shot. Ye,
and now I'm a two penalty strokes. So now my
(35:38):
next stroke four or five, I'm now hitting six, right
or I'm hitting five.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
You're hitting six because you hit three, you four and
five is your penalty, and then your next shot will
be stroke will be six.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Okay, But on the on the out of bounds situations,
you're you hit it in, you pull it out, that's penalty.
You get one stroke penalty.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Well you're hitting the first it counts and then your
penalty stroke coming back.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
And so you when you're hitting a and you're hitting
three not four, that's okay, right dude, I am. I
know you got to be exhausted for me grinding you
like this. I'm I'm I'm tapped out, but I really
enjoy your time. And again, I can't thank you enough
for your long term support of the podcast and your
(36:31):
very kind words. And I'm still don't get why you
would dedicate your book, but now that you've done it,
you've got to dedicate all three of them to me,
So screw you, buddy, And again, thanks so much. And
I really want to advise anyone who's interested in getting
(36:52):
more about learning the rules so you can repeat them
to your friends. Forget the Rules of Golf written by
the USGA is it's little, but it's little pages because
they want you to put it in your back pocket,
but it's over two hundred pages long. No the golf
role stroke play. Learn the rules of golf by watching
others break them, which actually is kind of fun because
(37:14):
you get yourself into situations going I've been there, I
know that, and you start getting to know the people
that are in the book. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Pick that up.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's in the Golfer's mart The Golf Rules by Richard Todd. Richard,
thanks again, man, thank you, I appreciate it.
Golf Smarter number four hundred and twenty nine, published on
April twenty five, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
If you're practicing, that's not a stroke. That's a swing
because you don't have intent to hit the ball. So
you know, quite often we're practicing a little too close
and we knock it off. That is not a stroke.
There is no penalty for.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
That, okay, So let me try to graphically explain this one.
So your go to address the ball, you place your
driver right down next to it, and it taps the
ball and the ball falls off the tee.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
That is not a stroke.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That is not a stroke. Because you'll have guys in
your forest and all. That's one and you can turn
around and say no, it's not right, okay.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Good. On the opposite side, you can swing with the
intent of putting it out there and it go two inches.
That it would have that is a stroke and that
is your ball played.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
More on the Golf Rules Stroke Play with Richard Todd.
This is Golf Smarter. Welcome back to Golf Smarter, Richard.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Thanks so much, Bred, it's great.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
To have you on again. I want to get right
back into the conversation about your fun little book called
the Golf Rules Stroke Play. Learn the rules of golf
by watching others break them again, a fun little read.
I was picking your brain. I'm so curious. You know,
now that you have the book out, do you talk
(01:53):
to people about rules or do you get a sense
that people always follow the rules or that they admit
they broke the rule? Do you get any sense of that?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yes? Actually, I was just at the Cleveland Golf Show.
Twenty five thousand people came through, and most everybody I'm
sure it's tongue in cheek, but it's a lot of
smart alec comments saying, oh, we don't play by the rules,
we don't need the rules, I don't like the rules,
those kind of things. Although we know that at least
to a great extent, everybody plays by the rules. You
(02:25):
might have your personal ones that you like to bend
a little as you were saying before. Inside the leather
is good, but overall, selling the rule book was akin
to setting up an alcoholics anonymous table at a bar.
At least, that was my takeaway from everybody that came by.
(02:48):
Loved the idea, but they were shy of admitting that
they knew less than everything.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
So they don't admit that they're breaking the rules, but
they also won't admit that they know the rules exactly. Wow. Well, uh,
I'll fall in that kind of I know, I admit,
I admit I know there are rules that I break
because I just don't care. I think that they're absurd.
I think that there's some of these rules are just
ridiculous and I and it's it's part of my whole
(03:23):
issue with the us GA and having a driver up there,
you know up It just drives me crazy. Why to me,
so many of these rules are to be And I
know I'm gonna really upset a lot of people with this,
but I get the sense that these rules are to
be the advocate for the golf course, not the advocate
(03:47):
for the golfer.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I've heard you say.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
That before, and it never made sense to you then,
And it doesn't make sense to you.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I know, I understand what you're saying, but I have
more of a perspective after dealing with the USGA and
for the book and going through the rural school, and
to make another metaphor, I feel like the USGA is
a police officer. Nobody wants to see a police car
(04:20):
in their rear view mirror with the lights on, but
when somebody is trying to break into their house, they
don't mind calling nine one one for some reason. That's
just the way people feel. You know, if you're speeding,
it's very simple. You know, here's the speed limit. If
(04:41):
you break it, there's the potential for the penalty.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
So if you're a victim, that's one thing. If you're
the perpetrator.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Exactly, so you know, the question is that you are
you're breaking the rule intentionally and you're trying to get
away with something or is it an accident and you
just need to talk your way out of the two
stroke Banetley Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Fine, so let's let's let's pick into the book. I
would love to go over some of the rules that
seem to be common mistakes or common misinterpretations or just
I didn't know that type of rules and so I'd
love to do two things. One, I'm going to ask
you a series of questions and see if we can
(05:23):
get a ruling from our official, even though you're not
the official, you wrote a book. And then also, if anybody,
let's just do this. If anybody has any rules questions
they're not sure of and would like clarification, send me
an email. I'll get Richard on Skype and we'll do
(05:44):
a little video of Richard explaining that rule to you.
I mean, and if it works or not. So just
go click on the Hey Fred button and send me
your question and we'll get Richard to answer the question.
So Richard here, let's start right at the tea box.
Is there's rules there, you know, like are the rules
where the your playing partners are allowed or not allowed
(06:09):
to stand while you're teeing off?
Speaker 3 (06:13):
There are not rules, but that's an etiquette.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Issue and that's in the next book.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That is in the next book. You know. The tea box,
of course, is an interesting thing. It is defined by
the tea markers, which actually the tea box goes to
the outside of the tea markers. So if you depending
on if you have the little balls or blocks, it
actually extends on the outside.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Of that how far outside just to.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
The end of it, right to the outside outside edge, right,
and it's two club blanks back. Granted that don't remember
the USGA specifying which club. But you know, for some people,
like there's an issue in the book where one of
the players knows he it's his eight iron one hundred
(07:01):
and thirty five yards and the tea markers at one
hundred and thirty and so he backs up five yards. Well,
that was outside of the actual defined tea box. And
so that's something you can't do, okay, because if you're
playing outside of the tea box, you effectively didn't tee
off properly, then you can qualification.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right. Are you allowed to not use a T on
the tea box, Yes, but you're not allowed to use
a T anywhere else. But I'm just making I'm just
asking here.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I've heard that starters should do that. But yes, no,
you cannot use a tee throughout the green or through
the green as we were just talking about. Four that's
the definition of the area between the tea box and
the putting green through the green, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And when you say that, you can set up two
club lengths generally, I would think that's people using their driver.
Whenever there's a two club length thing, people pull out
the longest club, which would be the driver. Right. Usually
you can't use your you're not you're not allowed to
use your ball retriever that has still a scopic ball retriever,
(08:18):
right right, Okay, So.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And the interesting thing with that is the ball has
to be in the T box.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, That's what I was going to ask, is like
can the ball be well, it can't be right to
the outside edge because you may hit it. But if
you put the ball like right, say you're a right
handed hitter and you go to the tea box when
you're facing the fairway the T box, it's on the
(08:43):
far left right, the left side, which is for a
right handed here, so you put the you put the
ball just inside that that marker, but you could stand.
Is it legal to stand outside that?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Okay, good, good to know you.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
You'd have to have a really strange fairway that you'd
want to be able to do that, but yeah, it's
an option.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Well no, I mean it's like I know when like
when I go bowling. Okay, And it's a weird analogy here,
and you know you're from Ohio. You bowl, Oh yeah,
it was not good. So anyway, so like you know,
you got the seven to ten, you know the outside
pins right, you got the ten pin over on the
far right. Now, to me, it makes much more sense
(09:32):
to start on the far left of the lane and
give yourself the angle to go at it. Then try
to just hug the ball straight down the right side
and hope that it hits it right. So for me,
the same thing. If my target line is to put
the ball on the right side of the fairway to
give me a better angle to approach the green, then
I'm going to hit from the left side of the
(09:53):
t box.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
It's something you could do.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yes, okay, that's not a rule thing. That's just how
I approach it. It's like, yeah, I'll hit on the
far side. I think, now you've listened, because I don't
listen to my interviews when I'm doing them. I'm just
like recording them so I hear. But I remember when
I asked when I had the woman at TPC Scottsdale
and I asked her if she noticed anything, and she
(10:19):
she said to me, oh, yeah, you tea up on
the right side of the tea box every time, and
I'm like, I do. I don't think I do, And
she said that I do.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
That is exactly what came into my mind when you
gave your description.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Is what she said. Yes, dude, you're not supposed to
take notes on the on the shows. You're just supposed
to listen. It's a podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
It's a great podcast.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Stop. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I appreciate that's very nice.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Can you tell people in my family that it's like
we're thet They're like, why do you still do that?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Okay, let's go to the book.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Yeah, you kidding, it's it's already in a frame and no,
it's going to be though. I'm just so touched. Water hazards.
Let's get back to because we talked about water hazards
and you know, I kind of caught you off guard there.
Let's go over the water. You've done a little research, now,
(11:12):
what can you tell me?
Speaker 3 (11:15):
First, we're talking about We mentioned water hazards versus lateral
water hazards before, and the lateral water hazard can actually
be part of a water hazard, but the lateral part
is positioned so that you can't play behind it. You're
(11:36):
outside of the you can't drop a ball behind the
water hazard and still be in the playing area. That
goes back to what we were saying. Okay, so there's
four things you can do when you're in a water hazard.
First one is play it as it lies. And this
is one of those things you got to think about
for a second because most people like, well, my ball's
in the water, how can I play it? Well, your
(11:57):
ball doesn't have to be in the water to be
in a water hazard. You know, if you see those
those red lines or the red steaks, you're you could
technically be in the water hazard but still have a
nice dry approach way.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Oh caught you with that one. Huh.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, no, it's like, say, say that the golf course,
you know, the water begins and there's crocodiles, you know,
the waters there, and the ball is like three or
four inches before it gets into the water, and yet
there's a red line that's been spray painted onto the
grass about two feet away from the water. Now that
(12:35):
red line is ob is it not?
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Now that's well the water that's a water hazard.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Okay, that says it's the water red lines. So even
though it's inside the red line, but not in the water.
You can still hit from there without penalty. Yes, oh okay.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
So you can hink you and as we're saying, you
can go back to the tee or not necessarily a
tea box, but you can go back to where your
last shot was, which may not be in the tea box.
You could have been like a Part five, you could
have put it in the water from your second, third,
or eighth shot. So there's number two three is we're
talking about dropping a ball online from the tee or
(13:23):
not the t the flag stick behind the water hazard,
and you can go as far back as you want, but.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
You have to stay online from where you pull the
ball out the line, not the line your ball flight was,
but the line to the flag.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, where it crossed the water hazard to the flag.
And there are options where you were saying about dropping
within two club links, not near the hole. Now, an
interesting part on that one is we know closer to
the hole, we can see that, but that line goes
(14:03):
left and right, so you literally could possibly drop on
the other side of the water being the same distance
from the hole. It's an interesting one. The rule book
does have a nice little diagram for that, and I'm
sure the USG website also discusses that or has that
same graphic. But again, this just goes to show you
(14:28):
why it's so difficult to play by the rules. Yeah,
as opposed to just take it back and hit another one,
as you were saying before, you could hit a provisional,
but there are other options.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah. Then I'm still not clear on when you're allowed
to just move the ball, the difference between taking the
ball all the way back to where you originally hit
or just saying, you know, out it's over here, but
(15:04):
I'm moving it so it's in play here and hitting
it here and taking hitting three versus going back to
the T box hitting three. Is there an instance where
I'm allowed to hit it from where it is out
of bounds and just move it laterally and then take
my third shot from there? Is that legal?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Every I'm trying to say yes, but I'm having a
tough time remembering the exact situation.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Yeah. Yeah, We're gonna have to do a little more
research on that one.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
But yeah, that goes back to your question you ask
me a little earlier. Do people come up and ask
me rule questions? And that happened a lot at the
golf show. And I'm an author. I'm not a rules
official for the USGA, so I will from time to
time just like everybody else. Forget how that rule goes.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Dude, you're a compliance guy.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
It doesn't mean we're always right. That's our goal.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Well that you know. I don't believe the rules are
always right, but I have to play by them. He's
not comment on that. No, Okay, are you? Are we
there more water hazard things that we should know?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yes, but you know that's more than enough for today.
All right, so much to have fun with?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, right, right, right right? Let's see what about testing hazards?
What is the ruling on that? What does that mean?
Like you know with bunkers? I remember that? Is that
a us open Like if it's if.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You know, are you talking about Let's see what was
that Johnson?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Was that Dustin Johnson?
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Justin Johnson?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
If it's it's a hazard?
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Right?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And he was like that he got penalized and laws
It was like terrible.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
You know, it's funny. Is I actually struck up a
conversation with one of the presenters at last year's Real
School about that, and he was laughing because he was
there and he was telling me how every caddy and
player was told over and over and again, you know
they were they were shown where all the bunkers are at.
And even as I guess as Dustin was going up there,
(17:24):
his caddy was told, that's a that's a bunker hazard.
So what we see on TV doesn't always actually happen
is the way we think it does. Uh, and sometimes
they just don't pay attention. So uh, but yes, to
answer your question, you can. You can dig your feet in.
You can, I think the rules call that getting a
(17:46):
firm stance. Uh. You cannot take a practice stroke that
means hitting the sand, but you can take a practice
swing into the air. Again, that goes back to your
h the legal descriptions of swing versus stroke.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Like my ball versus the A ball.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Right right, So as long as you don't swing into
the sand, you're okay in those in those situations.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Okay, okay. So then testing hazards no, no, correct, cannot
have your club touch the hazard while practicing correct, Okay,
don't do it. Don't do that, but they have to
be designated. Now, obviously that was tournament play and there
(18:41):
was you know, like that hazard that he got penalized
for it was like the size of a size seven shoe, right,
and I.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Believe there were a spectator standing in it too, Yeah, exactly.
It makes it even more difficult to.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Oh that was so painful. Yeah, that was so painful. Okay,
So you really, if you're just playing, you should know
your course. But I mean they're probably.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
No, there are, Yes, that's always an interesting question to
ask before you t off, you know, at the starter
and what is defined as the hazards on the courses,
and you know they'll always give you recommendations and suggestions
and things to watch out for because you know they
(19:30):
know the course and they want you to have a
good time.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yes, sure they do, all right, Well, they want you
to come back, that's what they want. You care if
you enjoy yourself or not. They want you to shoot
on hundred and thirty. So then then I guess that
would bring up the conversation about debris or what are
they called obstacles or impediments.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Loose or faced impediments and.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Fixed.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Yes, I'm sorry, I'm losing my thought process again.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
And I understand that. I apologize. You know, we're three
hours difference on time zone, and I'm just throughout. You know,
I'm getting it's getting late in your day, and I
apologize you get a pot.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
You had made a comment earlier about the being on
the tee box and knocking the ball off the tee.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, there's gonna go.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
That kind of goes with being in the bunker. Is
it a stroke or is it a swing? If you're
practice practicing, that's uh, not a not a stroke. That's
a swing because you don't have intent to hit the ball.
So you know, quite often we're practicing a little too
(20:47):
close and we knock it off. That is not a stroke.
There is no penalty for that, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
So like so let me let me try to graphically
explain this one. So your tea, you're you've teed up
the ball, you're about to do it. You go to
address the ball, you place your driver right down next
to it, and it taps the ball and the ball
falls off the tee.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
That is that is not a stroke.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
That is not a stroke. Because you'll have guys in
your forest and all going that's one you're and you
can turn around and say no, it's not right, okay, good.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Now on the opposite side, you can swing with the
intent of putting it out there two seventy five and
it go that two inches that it would have. That
is a stroke and that is your ball played. And
some people think, well, okay, I went three inches, let
me just pull it back, put it back on the tee. Well,
(21:42):
effectively you've gone back to what we just talked about,
that stroke and distance, and.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
And then you you do not get to tee it
up again right at that point? Well, no, the balls
you play it where it lies. If you only had
three inches, you got to hit it there, right, okay, okay,
And and but what about uh say you take a
practice swing. No, you take you address the ball. You
(22:10):
take your swing and miss the ball completely. It has happened.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
It has happened. And that is a stroke because you
had the intent of hitting it.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So if you swing and miss completely and this was
your swing, but you're missing and the ball is still
sitting exactly where it was when you started, that counts
as a stroke.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
That strike one.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yes, oh wow, No I don't do that. I do that. No, never,
never do that. No, but I've seen I've seen it
happen because I don't I play with anybody. It's like, oh,
you've never played golf. Come on, let's go on. This
will be fun. But so that actually counts as a stroke.
(22:54):
That would be defeating if you were that happened to
you and you weren't very good players, Like, well, I
don't want to play. That's going to count.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
At least there's no penalty because you don't have to,
you know, bring the ball back. You're still in a
good lie.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
What do you mean there's no penalty. I didn't hit
it and it counts, well, there's no penalty. But you're right.
I like that you actually said strike one that you
know that counts as a swing. Say you hit your
ball and it goes into the woods, and I hope
(23:27):
I'm okay with this. It goes into the woods and
the ball lands under some stuff that has fallen from
the tree, you know, and then there's a branch here
and there, and there's some leaves and the balls under there.
And what am I allowed to do to make it
so I can get a clean shot at the ball?
Speaker 3 (23:49):
No, we've we saw again. Not to bring up the tour.
There was an interesting one not too long ago. I
think it was down a Hilton head where it was
live thick brush and in the backswing. If you clear
out some of that brush, that is a penalty, even
(24:09):
though I don't know how you could not do it.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Wait live but live brush, yes.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Some tall weeds. Okay, And I think there's been other
people that have called a penalty on themselves or something
which somebody watching from TV at home. But you've got
to be very careful about changing the lie.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
So am I allowed to if it's if it goes
into the fescue and there's all this tall grass around
it and I can get to it. But if I
hit it, it's just going to get caught up in
this tall stuff. So I can't pat down the grass
in front of it on the direction my SHOT's going,
I can't correct.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
You can't go in there and clear out your path.
H Okay, And no, I don't know how you'd really,
I guess just smack away and try.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
To Can you say you know? But you can say listen,
I know that if I try to hit this, it's
not going anywhere. I'm going to take five or six strokes.
I'm stuck in this. Can you just can you say
I'm going to take a drop, I'm going to move
the ball and take a drop over there, you.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Can play it as a drawing a blank on the
terminology shown unplayable.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Lie, unplayable Ie, Okay.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
I'm trying to think though, where your drop zone is
at very if I'm sure it's going to be close
to where the ball's at. So if you're if you're
surrounded by fifteen feet of this stuff, I don't think
you're going to get out easily.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Right, But there's a penalty involved with that. I mean
you can.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Exactly right, yes, And that kind of goes back with
the rule you're not trying to get out of trouble
because you know I played the course as it lies.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
No, I'm just trying to get closer.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
You're trying to well, right, but you're trying to get
relief from something that is not normal, like on a
cart path. And that's probably one area that most people
don't understand. You can be on a cart path and
most everybody will drop to the fairway side of the
(26:26):
cart path. Well, that may not be your quote quote
closest point of relief. It depends if you're a right
hand or a left hander. You know, you you literally
have to almost measure where that ball's at and how
far you have to move it so that you can
take a stance to play the ball. And it may
(26:47):
be to the inside, it may be into the rough.
And I've even seen where your closest point of relief
could be right behind a tree. Now you're not taking relief.
You're not trying to better your next shot. You're just
taking relief from the car path. That doesn't mean that
(27:08):
you're going to have a great next shot, but it
means you're not going to hit on the carpath right.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
And if you do land on the card path and
you take relief from that, is there a penalty. No,
So you should not hit from the card.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Path unless you have no good relief. I mean you
can get relief from the car path, but that could
put you into a more troublesome position. You could have
roots on one side tree, maybe the dirts all tore up.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Do you remember, now this is funny. Do you remember
the interviews that I did with the caddies at Pebble
Beach a couple of years ago, number of years.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Ago about using some other guy's club.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yes, I love that story. I love the guys, The
guys like they were playing you know, I gotta play
it real, liies gotta play it real lies. And the
guy's like, he landed on the card path and it
was like like it was asphalt. It wasn't just a cement.
It was asphalt, right, So there's rocks in it and
pebbles and it's rough. And the guy was like, oh,
I'm going to just take relief here, and his playing
(28:20):
partner said, no, got to play it where it lies. Now.
Was he wrong?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Well, yes, that's not the rules. The rule says you
could you can take free relief from there. Those two
were they Well, again, they broke the rules before they
even started because they decided that they were going to
play everything down and that was contrary to taking your
a loud relief mm and so yes. And then the
(28:50):
golfer that was hitting asked if he could take a
practice wing, and the golfer said sure, right, took several
practice wings.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
And he took several practice wings and and he's like,
you know, he's making sure. Then there's sparks flying from
the club and you know it's just he's just destroying
the golf club. I loved this story. And finally he
takes the shot and sticks it, puts it right next
to the pin and his playing partner said, wow, that
(29:17):
was a great shot. Which club did you use? And
he said your six iron? I thought that was funny,
now it was it was, But now wait a minute,
using your partner's six iron is illegal? Correct?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Okay? You can share clubs as long as the total
number of clubs don't exceed fourteen.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Whoa total number of clubs that you use and around
or because you may be carrying fourteen, but you're not
going to hit your seven iron at all today, you can't.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
It's in your bag, You're going to use it. Okay,
it's available to you.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Right, So if you're only carrying.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I never thought about that one. He probably he's got
a penalty for having too many clubs, right.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
So that you can carry thirteen clubs and say to
your buddy, I didn't bring my hybrid today. Can I
borrow yours? And as long as you've got thirteen clubs
in your bag, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
Well, it's okay one way. I'm trying to think of
the other golfer because now he's shared a club. I'm
not sure how that falls. I think he might be Okay,
it gets a little tricky there. Oh, sure, the penalty can.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Go, where's the lawyers when we need them exactly?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Another point about the rules that we're getting into is
it's not always about penalizing yourself. It's about the opportunities
that you missed, like dropping it off the cart path
or taking it out of the embedded life so you
don't take four strokes to move it a foot and
a half. So the rules are there just to try
(30:55):
to make the game more enjoyable, or at least even.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
That's making the game more enjoyable is being able to
tee it up every time? What about cleaning the ball?
You know sometimes you'll get when where there's win. There
are when people say winter rules, Is that an official designation?
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It is an official designation. It's called preferred lies in
the book, and it's there for the care of the course. Okay,
that hole or maybe the entire grasp because of the
weather conditions. They don't want you taking big chunks of
sod out so you can move the ball slightly so
(31:43):
that you have a better lie, so that you don't
do as much damage to the course.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Sure, but what if you've got a big chunk of
mud on your ball?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
There are times that you can clean the ball, but
just I'm not sure how the preferred lies rolls in
with cleaning your ball. I don't think that that's an
option there. Wow, of course you can clean it on
the putting green.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
On the putting green, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
After your market, before you tee off, you can clean
your ball slightly for identification purposes. You know, you might
have a big clump of dirt, but that dirt might
be right over your marking and you need to be
able to identify. So there are opportunities where you can
(32:32):
touch up the ball a little bit. Playing an unplayable
live believe that's an option too, where you can clean
your ball before you redrop. So, m okay, a lot
of fun stuff.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
A lot of fun stuff. Let's see, I'm gonna throw
one more at you. Let's see if you can come
up with your ball. You've just hit your ball from
the fairway. You're now on the green, and your playing
partner hits up and comes up short of the green.
He's just on the fringe. And then he goes to
(33:05):
take his next shot from the fringe, and in the
process of hitting it from the fringe, he hits your ball.
Is that a penalty or is that okay, because you
haven't gotten up to mark your ball yet. I mean,
you know, obviously you're going to go mark your ball
what you're allowed to do, right and pick it up. Okay,
But if he hits it from off the green, no
(33:30):
matter what club he's using. And this is one thing
that cracks me up all the time. People say, oh,
I had three putts there. It's like, no, you had
three strokes with your putter, but you only had two
official putts. Correct. Just because you're using your putter doesn't
mean it counts as a putt because people putt from
off the green all the time, right, okay, so excuse me.
(33:52):
So then now, guys, he's using his putter, he's on
the fringe and he hits it and it hits your ball.
Is that a penalty? And if it is, well, whose
ball gets moved? Or do they both? How does that work?
Speaker 3 (34:09):
All? Right? Hopefully I get this right. There is no penalty.
The ball that was there first sitting will be replaced
for no penalty. The player that was just hitting that
knocked the ball. I believe that's a rub of the
green and his ball stays where it bounced off.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So one gets moved The ball that's originally there gets
moved back to where it was, and the other one
wherever it ricocheted onto that stays where it is, right, Okay,
Now he hits that shot and it trickles from the fringe.
He hits his approach shot, it trickles just over the
fringe and makes it onto the first two inches of
the green. Now he's actually putting on the green, and
(34:51):
you still haven't moved your ball because you're on the
opposite of the green, and for whatever reason, and he
puts it and it hits you your ball. Is that
a penalty?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
How much of a penalty?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Two strokes? Most everything is two strokes for match or
for stroke play. Match play is usually the loss of whole.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Okay, okay, So two strokes meaning I'm hitting my third shot.
Let's see, I'm hitting you hit hitting my third shot.
I hit his ball for my my third shot. Ye,
and now I'm a two penalty strokes. So now my
(35:38):
next stroke four or five, I'm now hitting six, right
or I'm hitting five.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
You're hitting six because you hit three, you four and
five is your penalty, and then your next shot will
be stroke will be six.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Okay, But on the on the out of bounds situations,
you're you hit it in, you pull it out, that's penalty.
You get one stroke penalty.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Well you're hitting the first it counts and then your
penalty stroke coming back.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
And so you when you're hitting a and you're hitting
three not four, that's okay, right dude, I am. I
know you got to be exhausted for me grinding you
like this. I'm I'm I'm tapped out, but I really
enjoy your time. And again, I can't thank you enough
for your long term support of the podcast and your
(36:31):
very kind words. And I'm still don't get why you
would dedicate your book, but now that you've done it,
you've got to dedicate all three of them to me,
So screw you, buddy, And again, thanks so much. And
I really want to advise anyone who's interested in getting
(36:52):
more about learning the rules so you can repeat them
to your friends. Forget the Rules of Golf written by
the USGA is it's little, but it's little pages because
they want you to put it in your back pocket,
but it's over two hundred pages long. No the golf
role stroke play. Learn the rules of golf by watching
others break them, which actually is kind of fun because
(37:14):
you get yourself into situations going I've been there, I
know that, and you start getting to know the people
that are in the book. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Pick that up.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's in the Golfer's mart The Golf Rules by Richard Todd. Richard,
thanks again, man, thank you, I appreciate it.
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