PGA Tour Caddy for J.B. Holmes, Brandon Parsons

GS#444 July 8, 2014 PGA Tour player J.B. Holmes grew up with Brandon Parsons who is now his caddy. This 70 minute episode features Brandon talking about Target Oriented Golf and Aimpoint putting to achieve the lowest scores possible.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Golf Smarter number four hundred and forty four, originally published
on July eighth, twenty fourteen.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
You start trying to take a picture when you make
your golf cleen what that part it is? And when
you can't do it, it's because it won't happen. You
had early palm wine. You're cringing the club that happened,
And then you want to why I don't make your
golf One for a kind of gotigator talking about will
president not be the redult orient and we're talking about
doing at a golf what called OFWF What it is? You're
outside with friend or people you like to at least
be around. You're at a park. Basically, you've got land

(00:52):
set aside that is free of course, about a beautiful bird,
water ducks, all the beautiful bad and you got.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
This picture app years that you can look at.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
And I'm saying you just start looking at them, because
everybody looks down at the grown into the white ball,
and then that's the frustraction. I'm saying. You look up
and find the party and set that in your mind
and then enjoying the times and then you start feeling
like having a good time on the golf course, and
then you can say I'm a good golfer and your
score nor reflected. But it won't be in the score.
That won't be while you know you're parent, you know

(01:21):
you're good, and you enjoy the time. Spin out there
which your friend.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
PGA Tour caddy for JB. Holmes, Brandon Parsons. This is
Golf Smarter. Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Brandon, Hey, how are you doing.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
I'm doing well.

Speaker 5 (01:41):
Where are you.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
Right now? I am between Campbellsville and Bowling Greens and
Punty and it's just going down to talk a little
bit about a target, owning your golf and a point
golf and a way to communicate and nation to the player.
Right now. You know, I caddy, So my brother intent

(02:05):
parking and instructor at Oldstone and I'm heading out the
Oldstone Country Club and goinger into.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Customs and how much of your life has spent on
the road.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
A great amount. I travel just with word about thirty
weeks plus the Ninus a few weeks, about thirty weeks
with the tour events, and then while I'm home sometimes
I scheduled some time like today to try to, you know,
just advance my learning in regards to golf. So I'm
using I've got a few days here before the British Open,

(02:37):
and I'm just using this time to try to to
brush up on some things, just green oriented, just just
reading green, trying to get a few more puts to
fall in.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, well, we'll definitely talk about aime point putting. And
because Colin Cromac was on the on the show just
a few weeks ago talking about tour target oriented golf,
that's how you and I got together. So I'm going
to want to focus and talk a lot about target
oriented golf from your perspective. But if you don't mind
me asking, I'm just fascinated you were You've been on

(03:13):
the tour this year with JB Holmes and caddying catting
for him. Is this your first year caddying for JB?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Now? I started cattying in two thousand and eight, so
I had caddy for JB. And just like we grew
up playing golf together and sometimes we would take turns
catting for each other. So we very much know each
other's games. And he had me come out just to
a couple of random tour events. I think it was
a fun I in Florida when he was on tour

(03:44):
and like oh six and I started full time.

Speaker 4 (03:47):
In eight and we really enjoyed it. I had quite
a bit of success.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
I took some time to play in two thousand, late
twenty twelve, first part twenty thirteen, and then he asked
me to come back. So it's happy to come back
get back to work with him. We've had a great
year to about fourteen. I think he's made just over
two million dollars.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
So yeah, the last time I checked, it looked like
it was just over two million dollars. And you still
have quite a way to go in the season.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah, we still have quite a season left, so we're
just trying to cone in on little ways to get better.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Some things we can do. Even at this level, it's.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Great to always feel like you can get a little
bit better. And I think that's what draws us to golf,
you know. I mean, even if you go out and
shoot eighteen under, there was still you're like, man, that
one left on the edge. Maybe it was for a
hole in one, but that's that's crazy. That's what the
mind does.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
You know, you never seem to be happy.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Feel like you can strive for just to get a
little better, and perfection never happens.

Speaker 5 (04:51):
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, I've never met let me take that back. I've
met one golfer in my life that said he was
a good golfer. I've never met anybody say are you
a golfer? Like I'm okay, you know, but you know,
at my barber, he's like, oh yeah, I'm good, I'm
a good golfer.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Like really, I've never heard anybody say that before. It's
really amazing.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
But like you see, and then you want to you
want to go play with your barber and see what
he thinks is good, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (05:21):
Because a different level, I have.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
No interest in playing with this guy because I don't
want him to start giving me lessons on the course.
I just have a feeling he's going to start telling
me what I'm doing wrong, and I have no interest
in that whatsoever. I understand, But but it's like, you know,
you you you go out and play with somebody and
they say, so, are you a good golfer? I'm like, yeah,

(05:44):
you know, I'm okay, I'm shooting in the you know,
the mid eighties right now, Like wow, you're really good,
and it's like, you know, but then if you you know,
from his perspective, I always kind of see shooting in
the eighties is kind of like turning sixty, you know. Uh,
it's when you're sixty year old to young people and

(06:04):
you're young to old people.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Right. Yeah, well I'm starting to know again. I mean,
if you want to get away from score, I'm just
starting to notice that. I would call anyone that can
be on the golf course and hitting shots and playing
and keeping score if it looks like they're enjoying it,
so you see them smiling, I would call them a
good golfer. Somehow they've managed to hear you're keeping score

(06:29):
and obviously you're not going to hit a perfect shot
every time, so you deal with the frustration in a
happy way. So anybody that can do that, in my mind,
i'm you know, I'm starting to because that's the guys
you know at programs and even on the tour where
it just looks like they're not enjoying it like while
you know, like while the understanding of that this is
a game.

Speaker 5 (06:48):
So I love that, I think along with h Yeah,
if he's.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Present and just seeing the golf course and that gets
us back again to the targeting or the golf.

Speaker 5 (06:57):
Yeah, no, I like that.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's like if you think you're if you're having fun,
then you're a good golfer.

Speaker 5 (07:02):
Why not my little.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
Boy, I don't know. He's five and we go out
and he sees everything you know out there in the
golf work.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
He has a black Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I mean he shoots one hundred and fifty if you
ask him, So he's a good golfer.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Oh, I didn't realize. You've got you've got a five
year old and you're on the road thirty weeks a year.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
That's got to be tough.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Yeah, that cannot with me. Just when we can make
it happen.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
But my wife is very supportive and it's been it's
been a really good ride.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
You know.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yeah, Well, when when the guy you're working for is
generating over two million dollars, you know, part the way
through the season. Yeah, I think you should be supportive.
I think she realized you're having.

Speaker 5 (07:49):
Fun, but she realizes.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
You know, I'm lucky enough that I really love golf.
I love gathering more information and learning, and that's what,
you know, Golf is my motivation. You get to do that,
and you know I take walks every day. We're out
on the course for four four and a half hours
with with my best buddy. You know, so it's.

Speaker 5 (08:09):
It's it's well, your best buddy.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
This year, yeah, this year, his winnings. You know, we
we've we've talked about enough. But he's had some tough
years the last couple of years too. He wasn't even
did he not even get to compete for a while.
He had some tough time.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, Yeah, he had he had some surgery just the
ki mountformation, so he had some skull removed which was
very scary. Oh and then uh, he had a rollerblading
accident and broken ankle and then he's had some surgery
on his elbow and it's amazing. But again he used
it as a motivation just to say, Okay, I'm gonna
work out. I'm going to overcome all these things, and
he's kind of out and want to get on tour.

(08:47):
And I'm you know, I'm very proud of him.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
I would think, well, being an old friend of his,
have you guys grew up playing together and competing against
one another. I got to imagine, and as as a cat,
I've got to imagine there's been a lot of pep
talks that come from you to get him back on track.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
Yeah, just you know more, it's just like, you know,
you just wanted to hang in there because golf, like
we just talked about, and very frustrating. So we're just
trying to get back to the enjoyment and while we
love golf and just every day, you know, just try
to see the golf course and just noticing just little things.
You know, you can play golf for a long time

(09:30):
and never noticed that there are any birds chirping on
the golf course today, You've not heard any for four years,
and maybe you start hearing those, you know, you're on
the right tranck if that may soon.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, I've had a new discovery just recently. Two of
the golf courses that I play in the county I
live in are dog friendly. Golf courses.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
And so I have I have a little dog. I
mean she's only about seventeen pounds, but she has been
out with me four times now, and I'm like, look,
if I'm gonna have to take my dog for a
walk and I walk the golf course, why don't I
just bring the dog. And she's been awesome. And the
friends that I play with like when I bring her out,

(10:12):
They're like, really, you're bringing your dog. And by the
end of the round they were so happy that she
was there because she's got this calming thing about her.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
You know.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
It's like when you're feeling frustrated stuff, you go over
and you snuggle and pet with the dog and you
feel great.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yeah, dog doesn't Your dog doesn't care if you know,
if he cop a shot or hit it in the woods,
or if you burnied a hole you never made burnie
on before, hit your longest drive. I mean, she's enjoying
being It's like a park to dog, you know. So
she's enjoying that experience from that point of view, which
is what we should be doing. You know. I think
we forget some time to get attached to the results

(10:49):
and everything.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, well, I think that's maybe an episode will be Yeah,
we'll be That's an episode we're going to be doing soon.
Is how what your dog could teach you on the
golf course.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
That's very good, very good.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
But if you ever get the chance to take a
dog out with it, you got to give it a try.

Speaker 5 (11:06):
It's really a lot of oh you have yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
I love.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I had a black lab growing up, and we took
him to the golf course some and their experiences just
really opened your eyes, you know differently, you really do.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
But I live next to a golf course and on
July fourth Holiday, just recently, somebody who lives on my
block had company over and brought their dog with them,
and the dog jumped over the fence onto the golf
course and the dog and these guys are looking around like,
who's that? Wait a minute, what is this dog doing here?

(11:42):
You can see these golfers were so frustrated, and the
dog was one of those hurting shepherds and was having
so much fun. But every time a guy would take
a shot, the dog would run down the fairway, pick
up the ball and bring it back. You could imagine
what this, yeah, you can imagine these these country club
guys who just play the same course over and over

(12:05):
again and play the same shot, and play the same
club at the same tea box and hit it in
the same bunker every time, and they never changed their
game with something like that really rattled their cage.

Speaker 5 (12:15):
It was very funny to watch exactly.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
It's two opposite energies flipping. You know. Dogger is just
all all blah. And you got people that you know, like,
like you just said, play the same game. They play
the same course, and it's like they've never thought, well,
you know, is it good? I always I'm always long

(12:40):
as this screen and it's terrible back there. It's all downhill,
or you know, I never I don't like that ship.
I wonder why they don't just hit a different club
to a different spot and or go look and see
where the good spot is.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Recently, Dave Stock and we had a really great conversation
and he talked about how he took two clubs with
him to every shot. He would never decide just based
on the yardage. He would take two different clubs and
decide for him it was is it a high shot
or a low shot? And he didn't make any decision
until he was standing behind the ball and assessing exactly

(13:19):
what he needed to accomplish before he decided which club
to hit. Yeah, which was a huge lesson for me.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
The main thing when I took away from him, it
is just using your imagination. Sure I can talk about
with where you want your ball to be, just using
your imagination more and seeing he takes two clubs because
he's playing with the trajectory. So he just would rather
instead of trying to deloss a sixty degree. Everybody uses
a sixty degree now at team, So instead of trying
to deloss that and force the club into doing a

(13:49):
shot it's not really built for, he would just switch
to a fifty six or fifty four or nine iron
and then he can keep it. He can keep his
body or his technique if you will, whatever you want
to call that. He doesn't have to channel, can just
change the tool to match the trajectory that he has
in his imagination. You know which You're awesome? Right?

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Spectacular?

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Well?

Speaker 1 (14:12):
If do you when you're when you're traveling, So now
you're traveling by car, but during in between tournaments and stuff,
you're flying with JB all the time.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Though right now we fly, we travel separately, So it's
an hour. If I can, it's I can work it
out so that I can get home, because if I
can drive, then I have more freedom, you know, if
I'll have to wait on a flight or rush to
a flight. I just felt like I don't like the
experience really going through airports and you're having to be
somewhere at a certain time. So if if I can drive,

(14:43):
its ten hours away. It just depending on, you know,
if we're going to be four weeks in a row.
If we're going to be four in a row, I'll fly.
But if I can, if I can find a way
to drive, I try to drive, but we fly separately.
We're gonna fly to the British Open. We are going
to do that together.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Then we'll come home, be home a week, and then
we'll be heading to Acron for.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
The Firestone and then the PGA, and then we'll get
ready for the playoffs and we'll do several in a
row in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
So looking forward to to all those events.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, I bet good luck on those. When now, when
you say you when you fly separately, do you mean
he flies first class and you fly coach or he
flies charter and you fly commercial or you take different planes.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, different, we're on different airplanes usually because why I'm flying,
I'm flying home, or maybe you have scheduled a different flight.
We're just seat responsible for our own travel, you know. Now,
there there are times like he did have a deal
in the.

Speaker 4 (15:49):
Past where maybe he has the private planes.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
I mean, if he's flying privately or something like that,
he's taking me along, and you know, I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
It's awful.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
It's just a matter of schedule. We just schedule, schedule
our own flights. And here recently he's been flying just
commercial a lot more so hm hmm.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Do you listen to audio books when you're on the
road or do you know if JB.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
But Jady and I have talked about it. He's been
listening to more and more audio books, which is you know,
is great. So we talked about just some audiobooks and
things that he's listened to. And I think it'll be
great because I don't have to take you know, now,
with today's technology, don't have to have a book with
you and and you know, come on the I phone

(16:35):
and on the fly or in the car. So that
would be great.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, and it's true. You download stuff automatically right down
to your iPhone. I know that you're you, and I
are talking on your cell phone right now on your iPhone.
I actually just took a driving trip down from the
San Francisco area down to Los Angeles and found an
eight hour book that took me there and back and

(16:59):
it was a really fun book. I really enjoyed it.
It's called ten Percent Happier. How I tamed the voice
in my head, reduced stress without losing my edge, and
found a self help that actually works. And it's written
by this guy named Dan Harris. Now, he was the
nightline anchor and he's worked for ABC Network and he

(17:23):
had a panic attack live on television while he was
doing a newscast on Good Morning America, and so he
realized at that point that he had to make some changes.
He's a non believer. He found himself in a very
bizarre situation, and then ABC made him their religious reporter,

(17:43):
and he was like, why am I covering religion? I
don't make it. But he just went on this self
help exploration and he found a way to tame his voice.
And it's interesting because while I was listening to it,
and he talked about meditation, he talked about mindfulness. It
resonated to me because so much of what I have

(18:05):
talked about on Golf Smarter really is kind of mindfulness,
and that is all that is is being present, being
in the moment. And so many instructors, so many mental
coaches that we've had on the show, talk about being
in the moment, focusing on the process and not about

(18:27):
the outcome. And Dan Harris talks about how all of
this work for him made him ten percent happier. And
it's a really entertaining book because there's so many stories,
especially if you like media and get his background and
turning Diane Sawyer onto meditation, that kind of stuff. It's
a great book to check out.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Yeah, well that's great. Just mindfulness and being president. That's
exactly what Tarry Orion Golf is about. And what you know,
what Colin is figured out how to do is just
basically get somebody. So it's easiest to okay, be mindful,
and it's easy to say, okay, be present, but now
how do you help me? Right? How do you know?
How do I do that?

Speaker 4 (19:05):
What does that look like?

Speaker 3 (19:06):
And so he has actually studied, you know, the brainway
patterns and everything of what what the brainways look like
when they're in this when someone is in the zone
that you know when you talk about all was in
the zone and is that okay? Why don't you just
get back to the zone. Why do you call out
his zone? Why does that happen? I'm a golfer and
it's happened to me, and it's like, how do you
put your finger on that? So that's what he has,
you know, the vault, a way to just basically do that.

(19:29):
And he called the target or in a golf and
it makes sense because the easiest way to do it
is just by finding a specific target. And it can
be anything that you enjoy looking at that is in
the picture of where you would like to get the golf.
So let's say you're staying on this and bocks and
you know there's this panoramic you but you're not necessarily

(19:52):
looking in the tree still left of the fairway. You're
looking somewhere through the stairway. There'll be something that just
stands out and on toward everywhere there's a specific tree.
It's like an architect put it there on purpose. Every
hole we have that, and I found when I play
other places every hole has that there's something that stands out.

(20:13):
It's like God put it there for you to look
at the architecture. You know, who never built the gout force,
whatever it is, that's where you should be looking to
hit this shot. And that's what you should be thinking
about while you swing, not your golf swing, Not what
you're going to tell your friends, Not that this is
going to be your longest sea side to day, not
that you're down for in your match, not that you're
up for in your match. Think about the party every

(20:35):
time on the driving range and the event of your life.
And that is the breakdown that happens when when people
are playing golf, you know, And it's simple to explain
once you understand, in my opinion, once you understand what
Paul's talking about with target orient golf. But it's not

(20:56):
necessarily easy to do because it's falling into this trap
the results only in it, like you just said, and
going past future and lighting your mind just just run
them up. So you know, said before to someone that
you either control your mind or it's going to control you.
And everybody goes up to the golf course and they

(21:18):
let their mind control them, and you can tell it's
controlling them because they don't seem to be enjoying golf
very much. They'll come back and play again tomorrow or
next weekend. They like it enough because they hit that
one shot.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
They're hooked.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
They hit that shot they know they can do, and
they keep saying, walk down and do that every time. Right,
you're adlter. So so.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
You have worked with Colin, you've studied with Colin, or
you just like the concept that he's he's been doing.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
You know, I calling something. So I got together with
Colin just basically I'd played in some advances and I've
been away from competition golf for a while. So the
first thing that happened I near that acuse, the payment event,
anything that you're looking forward to for a long time
and you practice for, and that's what you're thinking about
when you're practicing, Right, that's how you could practice all

(22:09):
practice event I want to do well. You're practicing your touch,
you're thinking about that, So that's the future. You're not
being in the present when you practice. Then that event happens,
and it's impossible to be in the president at that part.
You haven't really practicing in the president. And then you
don't get the results you wanted, and you're like, what,
you know the practice? HA spent all these hours practicing golf,

(22:30):
and so I knew I had a problem that no
one had. Really. It was the first time I knew
it was a problem. I went, I went to the
huge school event and just hit you know, I was
playing well and just hit this shot off the map
and that's not like me. I hit it in the water,
you know. Lastly, I guess you would call a double cross.
I've never really hit that kind of shot before. And
I thought, I knew that my mind had it's gotten

(22:51):
away from me. So I just started looking for anybody,
you know, just anybody could on online basically, and there
was Target Warning a golf and I read about it,
and on his website he was describing what exactly what
I thought my problem was. And then he had these

(23:12):
one after shots and you could tell a different I
couldn't tell what the difference was. And so I got
ahold of just through actually end point golf model thing
in the UK said hey, you know this guy is
actually I just went with that with that calling. So
he put us in touch, introduced us, and I started
talking to him and I posted conversation. I mean, he

(23:36):
he call and explain to me exactly what my problem was.
And I talked to him every week for the next
few weeks and we just talked about target warning golf
and I would send him videos of me doing it,
and yeah, you know, I came to an understanding of
exactly what he was talking about and was able to
put in practice. And more importantly, I'm able to from

(23:58):
a caddy standpoint, help the player focus on the things
that we need to focus on, you know what I mean,
which is the target. We practice with the target, and
we played them with the parties, and now we're able
to practice more closely instead of being worrying about the
swinging so much. I mean again, if the traffic comes

(24:19):
up right. But you'll find for the weekend golfers out there,
you'll find that it's when you spend time practicing or
you're thinking at home about the target, like a hole
that you saw, if you knew what your target was,
that's different than just knowing that there was a fairly
there and you had no idea really what you were

(24:39):
swinging in You're trying to get the ball affairly and
you were thinking about maybe your release, or maybe your
weight shift, or maybe something somebody told you you got
to make sure this dellow.

Speaker 4 (24:48):
Is here or that.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
That's totally different experience than thinking about the target and
reacting to the target. Totally different. And you'll know what
I'm talking about when you reflect that.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Maybe you're cooking.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Then a leader and you can go through the holes
and every hole is you have a target, and you'll
be at first when you start doing this sorry orient
a golf, there'll be holes that you slipped up and
you'll realize, oh, I don't know what my parget was there.
And when you get really good at it, you start
you start catching it when you step into your shot,
and when you in mind you start trying to paint
a picture. When when you make your dolls clean, what

(25:22):
that part it is? And when you can't do it,
it's because you don't have one, because you never really
sold one. You're just swinging the club at nothing, and
then you wonder why you don't get your results you want.
So I kind of go together. You're talking about being present,
not being a results oriented, and we're talking about enjoyment
a golf and what's called dolfhood. It is you're you're

(25:42):
outside with friends or people you like to at least
be around.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
You're at a park.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Basically, you've got landset aside that is free. Of course,
it is not as beautiful birds, water ducks, you know,
all these beautiful things. And you've got these picture, these
these pictures, these views that you can look at, and
I'm saying, just start looking at them, because everybody looks
down at the ground and see this white ball, and
then that's the frustration. I'm saying, look up and find

(26:07):
the target. It's get that in your mind and the
enjoyment comes, and then you start feeling like that the
story you just talked about with the dog, I mean
he's having a blast, is having a good time on
the golf course. And then you can say I'm a
good golfer and your score won't reflect it. But it
won't be in the score.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
That won't be while you know you're good.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
You know you're good because you enjoyed the time you
stand out there which your friends.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
On the target concept, Am I picking a spot that
I want the ball to land on? Am I picking
like you were saying, a tree in the distance that
I want my ballflight to follow?

Speaker 5 (26:51):
I'm looking that.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Give me specific because I know that sometimes I'll look
at a spot on the fairway and I'll focus on
that spot on the fairway, and then when I get
you know, and then I bring my head back, and
all of a sudden, now that I'm looking at the ball,
I start thinking about, Okay, make sure my elbow doesn't
fly out, make sure that my weight shift is correct, right,
you know, I'll get lost in that, and then I

(27:16):
but but don't and then you know, and then I
hear myself, but don't forget where you're trying to hit
the ball. So there's too many things obviously going on
in my head at once, but I get lost on
whether I'm you know, focusing on a landing spot or
a ball flight or are they mutually exclusive? Are they
the same thing?

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Well, yeah, that's so. On the on the tea box,
most often, what what I will talk about is there
will be playing to wear that has tree. So I'm
usually looking at a certain color tree or a trunk.
Maybe there's a clickd trunk. Maybe there's a tree that
makes a why so you would your ball would never

(27:55):
get to that tree that might be through the fair
way on the line that would be anywhere on that
line would be good. So maybe maybe the cover to
get to the fairway is like to twenty and then
you run out to go and through the rough on
the other side is like three thirty. You with me,
So we have a line created and you you can
draw into that line. You can fade into that line

(28:16):
that you're wanting to call the end somewhere on that line,
but it can never get to that tree because it's
three is four hundred yards away or four und yards
away maybe, or maybe it's three hundred and thirty yards away.
So there's this picture, and then what if I took
a picture with a camera and then brought it to you.
I would circle on a rip saying, hey, you know
on this line, I can show you on this line,

(28:37):
if you get it towards this tree, you have to
get a two and twenty yards get to the fairway,
or two hundre yards get to the fairway, and then
three hundred and thirty three. Now, if those numbers that
work for you can can't hit it to it in
twenty yards, you need to have a different target. You
with me, Yeah, you would shift it over to where
you can reach the fairway. Say, okay, So if I'm

(28:57):
describing a target for my wife, is just a game
golf I describe, I'm like, hey, do you see that?
You know, there's this tree, there's this group of pie.
Now my target sometimes is way less closer to the green,
you know, and I find something that I like to
think about. She may not ever see you're playing the
framed golf course, but she would never see what I'm

(29:19):
necessarily looking at. And I would never look when I'm
playing off. I would never necessarily look where she's looking.
But it needs to be something. It can be a
bird on a tree, you know. You know, a bird
might fly away, but a bird might direct you towards
the tree you never saw before. So that's on the
pie that is when we get closer to the hole.
They can be that spot on the green. But there's
a problem if you're picking the spot to land in

(29:42):
the fairway, well what if your drive is man a
favor than that, you know, so it's easier just to
pick trunking up and you want to you know, and
it's doing the track man. Everything is related, but TrackMan
never say to me the boss fall you will end up,
you know, pluck two to four degrees and sing out well,
So you want to be looking at something higher because
you want to hit up on a driver. You want
to catch it on the upswing right of your circle

(30:05):
by spurs of chips. You're going to land somewhere short
of the can so now and if it's breaking to
the left, your target will be shortened to the right
of the top and if you and you can make
your circle, depending on how good at golf, how much
you get, lady to make your circle bigger, you can
have a bigger target, or you can make it smaller,
especially if you're playing well, or or if it's significantly downhill.

(30:27):
Maybe maybe you have a small fot it's closer to
you and you just have to bump it. We've all
done this. You just want to where you were doing it.
Maybe you're going to hear a little nine here and
it's a downhill right left breaking you know, twenty feet away.
You're not trying to knock a nine iron in the hole. Oh.
You shift your target closer to you and further to
the right, and you're like, I just think it's that

(30:48):
fought and the ball will tunnel down to the hole
that moment you're doing target only a golf and most
of the time people are successful on those types of shots.
It's just I'm talking about and talk expanding that fought
all the way back toity and doing it every time.
So in a sense it can be a little bit boring,
but it's not boring, and that you get to see
more of the golf course and you notice these things

(31:09):
that were there all along. But most of the time
people are just looking at the golf ball and thinking
about the golfspel. So then you want to get to
enjoy the golf course.

Speaker 5 (31:21):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah, it's mind blows because they're all along and most
people have done it, you know, they just don't they're
not aware. So really, Colin has a systematic way of
just becoming aware. And if you do that every day
you practice and every day you play golf, you get
better because you get feedbacks when you miss your target.

(31:44):
You don't have to go to the golf swing and
think technically, all my faces up at your feet and
you have a feeling all of a sudden, feelings is
so big because your mind is the only thinking about
the target, and then you can adjust your feeling and
guess what your swing comes out looking just like track
man says it should, or just like the guys on tour.
It takes time and you're I'm not saying you're gonna

(32:05):
have You're gonna have your tour swan that you understand,
and that is golf actually knowing where the golf ball
is going to go before you hit it, whether it's
a favor or all, whatever it is. Once you have,
once you can hit a four and different difference in
a set of iron and then some sort of wood
a little bit further than before you are playing golf.

(32:28):
The next thing you want to do then is understanding
uphiel shots are easier in general than downhill shots because
gravity will stop it. So then you're looking for places
that you can get your ball around the green, that
you have an uphill chip or an upfield putt, and
then you can start having lower scores. You know, so
eighteen number is nine. So if you're not working ninety,

(32:51):
you need to find some way where do you like
to hit your shot from the fairway, Like if you
block out on the left, if the dog leg left,
you already know you don't want your target to be
down the left unless you hate it. Maybe it's great.
If you're gonna hear it the sling, you're going to
the that part of the saily. So your target to
be you could start it on the left corner. There
may be a tree that you love to swing it,

(33:12):
and you can just wear it out and do your
swing at that target. But you know the balls want
to cut. You're playing golf. Now when you get to
the next shot, you know you only shore the hole. Well,
you're seven, I might get through the hole. Getting through
the whole badge is it's extremely downhill. So you choose
an adie and you find a target that you like
looking at, and you know it's gonna fade. So maybe
the front left of the green. There the tree, there's

(33:35):
the green. Maybe there's a cart path there. Everybody's seeing
these places I'm talking about, and they've done it. It's
just being aware and starting to do it every time.
Then you're playing golf, you aid out and stay shore.
Maybe you get to get it and it just creeps up.
Now you have an upfield chair, throw an upfield cut,
chip up putt that's above chip up. Make a putt
below the hole.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
That's a part and then just waiting for those opportunities
where you're comfortable with anchershot and then you might make
a birdie, had a birdie Clott. But those happen almost
by accident, and it's not like you purpose to say
I'm going to burdy this whole. No, there's a plane
you can put in play with targets that can lead
you to a birdie, you know, but it's not just

(34:17):
step up and work and just swinging targ I can
you know, and think about releasing the club and think
about this elbow that's not going to lead you where
you want to be. That's frustration, the that's what you know.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Yeah, and this is all a critical element of the
pre shot routine.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
Correct, correct, And what I really liked about talking with
Colin you know about the pre shot routine is that
you're maybe stepping across a creek or you know, climbing
not climbing once. Once you have a process that you're
comfortable with, and it starts with you and confirming okay,
you have that thing. You need to be aware you're

(34:58):
on a golf course. You want to be here right,
so you're going to enjoy the next thirty You needs
to be enjoyment, which is where you're chosen to be.
Then you're going too what do I see you before me?
You know, oh, okay, there's a creek. Am I going
over the creek?

Speaker 4 (35:11):
Short the creek?

Speaker 3 (35:12):
So you're making a decision on your club. Okay, we're
gonna go over the creek and we have one hundred
and fifty yards to the front is longod from a
catting standpoint. I'm just telling you what I would do
it in a couple of seconds to help the player.
You know, it might take me longer to explain, but
you do this in a few seconds. Short, this pin
is better. You know, we have twenty yards to cover

(35:35):
over the creek, so shorts good. One fifty front, so
nine ie gets to the front and the king down seven.
But we know shorts, okay, we could maybe chip it
in or you know, we are gonna feel shot, so
we're gonna choose a nine iron. The wind is you know,
there's not my twin right now? And then you're gonna
find a target. Okay, what is short left? When I

(35:56):
look short left, what do I see? And that there
will lead this tree track? All right, that's my target.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
I'm just gonna hit the tree truck.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Now, if it's saved a little bit, yeah, maybe I
hit it closer I'm into. But if it goes exactly
where I want, I would have an upheel left to
right Bertie put Now, if you want to write an
uphill right to left Birdy putt. I'm talking about people
that have played the golfers. They know what they know
where they like to put from. You might choose a
target a different tree just to the right, opinion right.

(36:23):
If you get close enough and you have an a
R shot and you really are good with your legs,
your target can be a pin. You know, it doesn't
have to be. Your desired outcome is different than your target,
most of it. Sometimes they are the same. The time
that's the same would be like a three foot straight putt.
All right, But as far as you get what we've

(36:45):
learned from main point, if you're above the whole breaking
left to right and the drink since eleven, now your
target is closer to you on further out to the
left as a whole, because gravity's gonna think it to
the right, so your target can't be the whole. You'll
miss it. Well right, we won't have to hit it hard.
You could go straight over the cup your target.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
Then are you with me?

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Yeah, where people kind of get confused your cognitive that
place a place like that niner and where do you
make this fall and you can go back in. You
can do it to this place and then grabbing it
kind of the rest with a driver. Your target is
somewhere down range and it's fun. You know, it can
be a cloud if they're not moving.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
I mean growing up.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
There there was some guys and then we were doing
this stuff. And I think people do it all the
time when they play.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
They're just not aware of this that we're doing this
stuff when we're unger.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Oh, you'll hit it fat, you know, you'll hit this
uh the tier line poles, you know. I mean, as
long as you hit that direction, you'll see down to
the right and kind of going fairly or you know
that's the rough, the land and the rough, but it's
going to just down. That's your target, the self a pulse.
But that cloud above them today, there's a cloud there.
It's fay. They're not might not be. That's why cloud
aren't necessarily good accuses the target, you know, But as

(37:58):
long as you're there in the moment, you can choose
that your ball is ever going to hit that cloud,
though the question about where the target would.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Be, Yeah, your mind may hit the cloud. But that's
a different topic altogether.

Speaker 4 (38:11):
I like and that's yes exactly.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I like the the concept of desired outcome is different
than the target. You said that a moment ago, and.

Speaker 5 (38:29):
Should we not?

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Are you saying that folks on the target and forget
about the desired outcome? Or is desired outcome an important
part of your preshot routine?

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Well, the desired outcome we need keep the choosing the target,
doesn't it?

Speaker 5 (38:45):
Yea in the hole of course?

Speaker 3 (38:47):
How am I going to get this ball to roll
in the hole? Well, that's how you're gonna shoot your target. Now,
let's say you go through your pre short routine. Like
I said, you can't too on a large So you know,
now we're putting all right, uh downhill left the riot
your chosen point pain point. Also that knowledge has helped
us maybe choose a choose a target, but really desired outcome.
You know from experience that this put's going to go

(39:08):
down onto the left, and you've chosen there's this little uh,
there's this little ball mark that you know that your
ball just rolls over the inside edge, then it'll just
be it just funnels over to the hole. So now
that's our target inside, you know, the inside part of
this ball mark and you're gonna step in, and you
have this checklist of things that helps you get comfortable.

(39:29):
Some people get tour players do it, you know. Some
people twist their hips a little bit. Some people fidget
with their whatever they're doing, they do that. It's not
that they're they're not thinking about shaking their hands. It's
that they're thinking about something else, and they shake their
hand when they think about that, right, And that's why
they do it.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
Every time they use that, they use that as a trigger.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
They use that to try to get their mind away
from getting in that direction.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Well, you know a lot of people that talk to
don't know that they're doing it.

Speaker 5 (39:59):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
But it's not a matter necessarily of to change to
get their mind away from something. It's just a matter
of that's that's what helps them. That little move gets
that's how they double check to make sure that maybe
they're the right elbow. You know. So I do some
things when I'm setting up and in my mind I'm like, okay,
all right, up, it's such an you know, my hip
and and so what it looks like externally is not

(40:22):
what it feels like internally. So what my mind, what
I'm doing is totally different than what people would perceive
when they watch my body move or what a camera
would show me and be like, wow, why do I
do that? You know? So you're stepping in and doing
these things, and then once once you checklist is that,
once you've done everything, it's time to hit the ball.
At that moment, you're thinking about the target, but you're

(40:42):
looking at the ball.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (40:45):
So it's like driving down the road. You know where
the road is that you can look at. You can
notice a tree to the left, or you're like, oh
there's a lake, and you look away from the road,
but you don't the wheel over and run off the road.
You stay on the road, you know, and keep and
keep traveling. You just for a second. That's what looking
at the ball should be. Like, the ball's there, but

(41:06):
that's not where your mind goes. The fine stays on
the target. Your eyes come to the ball, notice it
for a second so you can do your stroke. Other
people have said this, They said, trace with your eyes,
you know, from the hole back to the ball, and
as soon as your eyes get to the ball, it's
trying to hit your stroke. That's what they mean.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I think that isn't that Jeff Mangum who says that
on putting, because I've done that for years. I will
trace the line from the hole back to my ball,
and as soon as my eyes get to the ball,
I'm pulling off the stroke.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Yeah, there you got it. And then and then all
I'm saying is fine and good and do that. And
that's externally what it may look like. And then target
owing at golf, Colin has found that you can control
your brain waves and get in the zone. It's in
your mind when you're when you're looking at that ball.
Once your eyes get to that ball, you're thinking about

(42:00):
your target and you can only think about it if
you saw it. If you can't think about it, that
means you didn't see it. And that's when you see
to our guys back out. You come back out and
you're like, oh, didn't you didn't even see my target?
What is my target? And you use that use that voice,
you know that that goes through your head. Just control it.
Either you control it or it's going to control you
and use that voice to talk about your targets yourself.

(42:22):
You say out loud if you want, but if you're
around people, you just do it internally and inside your
head and you're like, okay, that's why, justin, I love
that spot. Set my club down. Okay, it's a club plant. Yeah,
the clubs plant the spot on my hands where you
know your hands are good.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
That is good.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Uh, there's my checklist and the us I left to
that spot. There's the ball stroke and the ball will
go and so I left to that spot funnel into
the hole. And now you got your our outcome. Now
you just ask do we don't work about this orry outcome?
If you did everything and you're happy with doing everything,
you did everything that you can control, and you roll

(42:57):
it over the inside left. Maybe you misread you couldn't
just read it. That happens, or maybe it hits something.
So if the ball doesn't go in the hole, there's
no point in getting angry and mad and letting it
affect your next shot or affect your day. Just notice
that you misread it, and you can say that I
hit it too hard. Then you know something that I
need to adjust my target thing. Maybe greens are slower.

(43:18):
You can't control these things, superintend and then mother greens
today they're slower. Just notice that if they're slower. You know,
some people change the you can change the weights before
the round. But the easiest thing to do is just
change your target. And now I feel put You pretend
the hole further up the hill than it than it
currently is, and then you hit it as if the
holes behind the actual hole. So the holes behind you

(43:43):
know there's three feet up the hill, You're gonna hit
three feet behind it and the ball will just go
in and you don't you know, you don't have to
worry about it. And if you show up and the
greens are faster, you bring your target closer to you.
So all of a sudden you have a maybe you
have a ten footer and the greens are faster and
used to playing on you're playing some quotes you haven't
played for bring a target closer to you. You know

(44:05):
in your mind, Yeah, there's a hole that's just supposed
to you. No, that's it.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Now, what about untarget oriented golf? And I'm going to
want to talk about aim point putting too, but on
target oriented golf, the post shot routine. Where do you
incorporate target oriented golf in your post shot?

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Well, A lots of people. Oh that's very important.

Speaker 4 (44:26):
That's a good question.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
Think you have to get feet in order to get better,
you must get feedback. So you've got to watch where
the ball went, all right, You've got to know where
the ball goes in relation to your target. And then
it helps me to think about the sensations I had
when I was swinging okay, and then the out that

(44:50):
I get the desire outcome. No, you got some outcome.
It may not be the desired outcome, but those sensations
led to that result. You accept that result, get back,
and then go get your next shot. And that's what's
great about the range. But you can use the range
just to stand projectiles down this field, or you can
go to the range and work on your desire outcome

(45:13):
and think about the target and and and feel and
golf really is just feeling an imagination.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Now let's move over to aim point. All right, how
how did you get started with that?

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Where?

Speaker 5 (45:24):
What is it about it that you like and how
has it made you?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Or you're the person you're caddy and carrying for, you're
looping for uh, how does it make them better?

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Well? Really, am point Mark twen is doing a good
job just having a systematic way. It's just physics, you know,
of the ball rolling friction and that generates break. So
side hill and then he has a chart you know
that he's developed and he can just look at the numbers.
And the gist of it is is downhill is a tightrope.

(46:02):
So downhill is speed sensitives and aim sensitive. So I
can it to a tightrope or you have this fine line,
if you hit it a little bit too hard, it
might not go in.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
You hear a little bit too easy, it's not gonna
go in.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
An uphill is the funnel, you have wider margin for error, right,
And basically that's what I'm going, you know, to work
on a little bit today is just you know, the expressory.
But basically I JD likes my opinion. When we're reading
greens group, we read greens together, so we've got to
have some sort of way to communicate and we use

(46:37):
you know, I'm using target oriented golf to communicate the
line I'm seeing. But basically we just you know, as
greens get faster, you play more break downhill fall, it
takes longer for the ball to get to the hole
because you don't put as much energy into if you
put the same amount of energy into if the ball
will you know, roll straight over the hole and just

(46:58):
keep going off the green. So you already know that
that's not what we're gonna do, So you just keep
bringing it back and basically you're trying to get the
ball to roll about eight inches past all that's just
the speed that makes the hole the biggest. The more
you can get, we said earlier for amateur golfers, the
more you can have those up to shots from left

(47:18):
or right in the hole. I mean, see you're just
pouring pouring the ball into the hole. You know it's
just going to go in all day. You have wider margin,
prayer ship shots, I can you know, I can take
a green and drop balls around and say, you know,
statistically you're going to miss. This is going to be
very difficult to speed into this and line. Now there's

(47:38):
you know, studies that show that downhill putt you are
more likely to make, but that's skewed because you're more
likely to get a downhill putt to the hole. So
if it never gets there, it never goes there. Well,
that's true, But you want to pack in all day
or do you want to grinding out six footers? You know, saying.

Speaker 5 (47:58):
Tap in, please.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Die, just die down to the hole, play more bike.
So that's and just communicating, communicating there and just working
with the sea.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
So do you are you one of those guys that
when you're looking looking at your putts you're thinking, okay, uh,
you know one ball outside the cup or are you
looking at the line that it's going to take and
you're looking at on the break, You're looking at where
the apex of that break is and you're trying to

(48:31):
follow that line.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
Yeah, it's weird for me. And you know, so I
always since I've been point off, I start to see
this like dark green. It's like darker green looks like
a shadow almost hardest my imagination does. So to me,
it's there, I see this line that goes through the
hole and it beings and it's darker green usually darker

(48:58):
in shade, and it's the width of the whole. It
comes all the way back to the ball for me,
and then just incorporating, you know, aain point shows me
how you know, if I walk in and it's four
percent slope, and I can feel that in my feet
by where my singer gravity goes when I step in.
I went agreeing with my free a lot on towards
help j you know, JB. And we have books on
tour that have the amount of slope and everything. So

(49:21):
anything around two percent is pretty flat when you start
getting two and a half thirty percent to fill that
in your feet. And so if I walk in and
I'm like you, I look at the book and it's
like four percent, and then we're on a nine every
angle to the whole. So we're hole high basically, which
everybody wants to be whole high. You never actually want
to be a hole.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
High below the whole way.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Better, now that this stuck's going to break, you know
as much on his chart, Just know that it's going
to break as much as the hand. Whether the seed
is eleven, you know, fourteen or eight, it doesn't matter.
It's gonna break a lot. So you just need to
look a little higher. So now I'm seeing I'm kind
of I'm using looking backwards four percent or on the

(50:04):
ninth it's going to probably come in from somewhere to
the top of the hole now I'm in my line
out that way. Does that make sense? So I see
a dark shadow, and then there might be something on
my little shadow target wise, there's that ball mark again,
or there's a piece of sand or something that my
ball maybe not roll over, but I'm going to start
at that line and it becomes a straight putt's setting

(50:26):
up and I'm gonna put it straight up at that target.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 5 (50:31):
Yes? It does, Yes it does.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
So I incorporated maybe everything because every I really feel
like everybody's describing, you know, the same thing. But he's
everything I've learned to kind of guide mine. I play
so much golf, I just start seeing these dark lines
and now I'm using your knowledge I'm currently learning to
help me adjust that line. But really it all started
with even before it's called target warning and golf. I

(50:57):
mean that's how kids are doing that. They're already doing
it children when they play right.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
How much golf do you get to play?

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Yeah? Ever plays very much this year. But it's weird
because I'm getting I'm playing the last golf and just
from learning target orient and golf, I mean really feel
like I'm getting better and better without playing golf. But
that's a new experience for me. I used to feel
like I had the balls for two weeks before I
just get back to where I was. I never felt

(51:27):
like I was getting any better. Now I feel like
I don't catch a club for weeks and come home.
I mean, I am enjoying it more. My wife has
started playing, and I'm I'm just talking. What we talk
about was target orient golf. She is playing better. She's
broken fifty and she's doing She's probably only played twenty times.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
She's broken white, so that's remarkable.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
She broke fifty. I'm nine holes. Wow. Okay, yeah, I
mean from the ladies team, you know, but I mean.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
We'll call those the fronties. Let's not be said, because
I know guys that should be playing the front ties,
but they're like, now they're the ladies.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
He is, shut up.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
You still can't shoot part?

Speaker 5 (52:10):
Just play there?

Speaker 3 (52:12):
Yes? Well, and again shots are coming someone within a
hunter yard anyway, right, So does it's irrelevant. It's basically like,
do you want to hit a seven iron into the
screen or a four iron or or maybe maybe you
know back in maybe it's a wood. So if you
have a wood, you like it, you might as well
play about TV your driver.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Right, nobody nobody wants to hit a Nobody wants to
hit a four iron to the green. That's that's painful.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Right.

Speaker 1 (52:47):
Is there a a like a secret society of caddies
that you guys have this little club going on, or
because your buddies with JB, you guys just hang together
the whole time and keep to yours Or are there
things that you know that you do with other caddies.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
No, I mean I'm not you know, I hang out with,
you know, other caddies, just depending on who is going
to be at each event. Some guys. You know, there's
points in the year where I'm maybe going to a
gym each week and working out, So there's caddies that
maybe I'll see at the gym. But pretty much I

(53:29):
hang out alone or with JB. Some with Patrick Sherry
who caddies for Forrey Madison. We've stayed together sometimes, but
mostly I'm I'm by myself with JB or sometimes my
wife and a boy girl.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
M Now your boys getting old though, He's gonna start
going to school. That's gonna make it tough.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Yeah, he's been. Yeah, he's been going to school. So
through the year, you know, we just we do the
best we can with what obstacles come up. So golf
helps us understand that too.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
So but okay, so now during a round or during
a weekend, when you guys are playing and you're paired
up with the same guy for a couple of days. Yeah,
what what goes on between the caddies?

Speaker 3 (54:11):
Then?

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Are you guys communicating? You you have little side bets. Oh,
I don't want to use the word bets, you know,
you know, because you probably can't. But you got little
games going on that you played between yourselves.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Yeah. No, I've never I've never had any side bets
or anything like that going on. We've not played, you know,
any any short of games. I mean, we just we
might talk, you know, and uh, there might be a
couple of minutes, Uh we'll I'll be sitting on a
te waiting and somebody will tell this a story or
something else.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
So that's that's been fun.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
But mostly it's just, uh, you know, you're you get
in the moment and you're just you're working on you're
doing you do everything the exact same to help you
get into that zone. So we're just in there trying
to get in the zone, you know, and so just
as you know, it's if we can help each other

(55:03):
rate bunkers if somebody's coming into some trouble or something,
you know, and and kind of help in that regard
getting the pan, wiping each other, the players ball off
on the green, you know, if they just come out
of the bunker and things like that. But now not
a real you know, secret society or anything like that.
We mostly there's so much money involved.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
You know, these days, we don't even travel together.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
I heard and you know, in years past, lots of
caddies traveled together and drove together, but you know, anymore,
it's just, uh, the game has changed so much. So
much money is involved, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
Yeah, yeah, so you're you're competing. You're competing too, I mean.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yeah, in the sense really the name of our game
is how good can you get your player to play? Really,
you know what I mean, that's just it.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
So you're a coach without a coach here, that's what
you are.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
You know, you're basically a coach. Someday he's a player
needs something, you know, maybe a little bit different, they
need it phrased a little bit different way, or they
need more motivation. Some days they need less motivation, you know,
some days just it's just reading your guy, I mean,
which is great for me. I mean, Jabi and I
grew up together. I mean, we really know each other

(56:16):
and we just try to really use that to our advantage.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
You know, so interesting.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Are there things that you do that would help us?
Like the first thing that comes to mind is like
I've I've never been a big fan of tossing a
couple blades of grass in the air to tell me
what's going on with the wind. A I have trouble
finding where the grass went when it does. But it
also I find that tossing grass, Okay, thet the wind

(56:46):
is blowing in that direction, but it's not telling me
is the wind swirling? Is it?

Speaker 5 (56:51):
Is it going you know, hard.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Left to right?

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Is it? You know?

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Are there other things that you have found that work
for you or you've seen other caddies do that?

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Oh? Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that's that's what I
do every day. I just checked the forecast of the wind.
There's a couple of different sides, you know, I might
use the Weather Channel on it, and so it says,
you know, south southeast, you know, and then there's another
app I use. You're not allowed to use it during
tournament play, but it's just that you know, the beginning
of the day, primost wind gives you a wind direction

(57:21):
and gives you the exact direction, like two hundred and
forty degrees, you know, so if you want, like I'm
a caddy, I'll use a compass. Most people aren't going
to use a compass, so you just know it's south
southwest and you figure out which way south southwest is.
And when I'm playing at home now, just from being
a caddy in my experiences, I know that in general
the wind comes from south southwest. When I'm at home

(57:42):
playing in Campbellsville, you know, it shifts in the morning
it's in, so it's like an opposite direction. And then
at about two o'clock at south southwest. So it's fun
for me because I can hear it really far down
wind on a few of these far formoles, so I like,
you know, I just like those holes, so I like
to play it about that time so I can catch win.
It's like being a surfer. I talked to some tudle
surf I've talked to surfers and they do the same

(58:04):
thing with catching waves. I'm just doing it with wind
and and what is the app again? Primos p r
I ms primost wind.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Okay, good, well we'll remember to put that in the
show notes.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
And do you.

Speaker 5 (58:23):
Hmm?

Speaker 1 (58:24):
So uh, you said you use a compass? Is that?
Are you allowed to have one on the course.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
During We're allowed to change that, We're allowed. I check.
I couldn't believe it, so I keep checking and asking
you to get hired, me asking, But yeah, we're allowed
to use a compass during a round. Seeing some caddies,
you know at Bay Hill there was a guy who's
the compass, so you know I use a compass, just
uh in general south southwest. And then if you feel
a swirl when you're playing, so you're throwing a grass,
you're seeing these swirls, so you throw it the rest

(58:51):
one time and it's blowing it to the left, and
you throw it up again, it's blowing it to the right.
But if you know it's generally supposed to be down.
Unless you look at the tree tops and every thing
is moving where the trees are the same direction, you
can just tell a lot about the tree tops and
just notice and then noticing how much of the tree
is moving. If it's just believe you got a lot
of win to worry about, and you can strike a

(59:12):
golf ball well when is not really going to affect
it anyway. But if you're seeing you know, the branches
closer to the trunk start to move, you know, you're
talking about some major wind. So you might want to
play and you're trying to get to that spot you know,
whether it's shipping or putting or whatever there below the
hole in that funnel.

Speaker 4 (59:30):
That's what you're trying to do.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
And is the flag helpful at all?

Speaker 3 (59:34):
I mean you can't. I just think if you're looking
at the tree tops because unless you're gonna hit your
golf ball, flag high all the way there, right like
if you're looking up if you have trees around, But
if you don't have any trees around, then yeah, you
can look at the flag and you see it one
hundred and fifty yards or two in yards away if
it's blowing straight down and where you're standing it feels

(59:55):
like it's blowing straight in. You know, in general, I
would play with the flags doing because that's where the
ball is losing speed. It comes off the face as
all the speed so the wind's not really affecting it
where you're standing anyway. It's when the ball loses speed
that the wind starts to move it around.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Have you ever noticed if anybody in the gallery is
maybe smoking and you can see what the smoke is doing,
is it's coming off their cigarette.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Or the Yeah, I'm looking.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Yeah, I'm looking at all all all of that smoking
at the clubhouse or by the clubhouse, and you know
that maybe they have a chimney with their cooking, and
watching that smoke and watching the American flags, you know,
the stadium, the stadium feet sometimes have flags. I'm looking
at all of those, you know, comparing feeling what it
feels like to me it's hitting me in the face,
or coming off the right, checking checking, uh, you know,

(01:00:45):
just the wind. Dire actually have a compass drawn in
our book, so that's an easy way. It'll actually have
to pull out a compass. Unles. I want the exact
between employe degrees if I want to say it's helping
off the right. But in general, you can look at
the compass that I have drawn in the most people
don't even know which way the golf course has turned.
So just getting familiar with that would help people a lot. Sure,

(01:01:05):
you know, because I mean it sounds like you're mainly
talking You're not talking about people that play different places
all the time, but just going out to normal club, Like, hey,
do you know that you know has just win? Is
this hole? Generally when you plays it down down went
off the right, you know, or you know lots of
different things. You know, playing before a storm is that
you know, if there's a storm coming in your golf,
one's going to go really far, you know, like I've been,

(01:01:29):
you're playing just up until they blow the horn or
there's lightning, or you don't know if the storm is
going to hit or miss. You know, but the temperature
drops and he's been playing before and that happened, right, Yeah,
Well the golf all goes further. So normally you hit
a seven iron, you know, from maybe one hundred and
fifty yards or you know, I don't know how far
you hit a seven iron. You might want to bump
it down to an eight, you know, especially if the
players to be short. That's the first question. You want

(01:01:49):
to be long and short here, they want to be
long and short, and then you can make an assessment
from there. If there's a storm coming in, your hate
iron is going to go pretty far because the baron
had pressure tends to drop, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
M so, but yeah, well you so, like you and
JB grew up in the South, so you're very used
to humid weather. I would think, So, do you maybe
perhaps carry some talcum or some baby powder in your
bag so that you can keep your hands a little
drier and then when you clap your hands and to

(01:02:21):
get the powder off, you'll see a little puff of
that blowing around.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
Yeah, that's smart.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
We don't but yeah, you know exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
I wonder if you kept some talcolm powder in your
bag to do that to dry off his hands, if
somebody would like not, that's illegal, you can't use it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:39):
It's like, what about drying my hands?

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Dude, leave me alone?

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
You know. Yeah, we would, Yeah, we would check everything
if we make any changes to our you're basically just
talking about a change in routine. The right thing that
we're gonna shire. We're going to make sure that you know,
we're checking the rules community at the beginning, and we
need to make sure that that's okay. Us a rain
grip for the reason that black strip that he uses,
you know, basically it's because of the humidity and everything.

(01:03:02):
You just you go through those leather grips as fast. Uh,
this material that they make the rain grips out of,
which is smart and you don't have to change grips
throughout the day. Gloves.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
How many gloves and how many gloves in a h
in a weekend?

Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
Will he go through.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
One to day really like he's one to day just
a new glove each day. Yeah hmm.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
And let's see, we'll listen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
We know, next time you play, I want I want
you to. I want you to really if you like
this idea, I want you to consider having some talking
with you and if he and if he uses it,
when when he slaps his hand and look over to
a camera and wink, and then you will know, we'll
know that it was from us.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Well, and then some of the other thing. Now we're
you know, differentage. Everybody has some sort of technology, whether
it's on their watch or a range bonder, you know
for a GPS, whatever it is they use. Just start
some sort of how far your golf ball actually goes.
That'll help people out so much because if you ask somebody, well,

(01:04:07):
how far is your seven iron? How far are you
that you're seven iron. They'll say a general number like
you know, one fifty five whatever, one fifty some people
one a whatever. Well, when you start playing, and when
you do that, the fetes fast hold you a driver
there a five iron, I had two in the yards,
I had a five iron. I had two hundred two
the pen, and I have a ball mark next to

(01:04:30):
the whole. It flew two hundred yards, but it probably didn't.
It's more like one ninety. And I was trying to
be short, so just trying to notice and then write
that down like five iron one ninety. That's that's the
biggest difference that tour guys have that well, they have
a caddy. So that's that's one of the things I do,
right down how far he hits every shot, how far
the ball flew in the air, So even in the
fair way, if I can find a ball mark where

(01:04:51):
his driver landed. And we had three twenty five to
cover a bunker and then covered about ten steps, I
knew that ball flew three thirty five. All right, drivers
very top, you know, and then we know if it's
running out how far hot did it run out? Twenty yards?
They run out thirty yards, Like, what is the ball
generally doing the name of the game is moving your
golf ball around this course. So knowing how far you

(01:05:15):
hit it is very important and people don't yep.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Very important, very important. Yeah, there's a there's a product
out now. There's a product out now called game Golf
that I know that Have you seen it?

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Yeah? I saw it. I just couldn't understand why you
wouldn't just write it down.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Well, I'll tell you. It's interesting because I know that
Lee Westwood, Graham McDowell, and now Jim Furika are using it.
I actually played golf with the CEO of the company
last week and I did a video that's going to
be coming up and an episode's going to be coming
up with him soon. It for me writing down I

(01:05:55):
don't have the wherewithal to write down every shot and
what how or it went and what it did. But
when I take when I use this thing and I
take it off at the end of the round and
I plug it into my computer, it gives me all
that information and it gives me statistics. It's really helped
my game and what it where it's helped my game

(01:06:15):
more is showing me where my holes are. In my
game and what I should be working on. I think
I think it's a great product.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, we'll talk more about that soon in the upcoming episodes.
Hey Brandon, this has been a long time. I know
you've got to get back on the road because you've
got things to do. I really appreciate your time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Yeah, I'm George talking so anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Thank you, thank you, and best of luck to you
and JB. Safe travels. Of course, have a great time
at the Open Championship, and I would love to catch
up with you maybe after the season, maybe we can
try to get together again and and and hear how
things went for you.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
Yeah, thanks so much. I was a part of talking.
Thanks for having me on your joff