Revolutionizing the Golf Experience: The Power of GolfLogix with CEO Pete Charleston

GS#1013 August 19, 2025 In this episode we welcome back Pete Charleston, co-founder of GolfLogix, to discuss the evolution of golf technology, particularly the GolfLogix app. We explore the journey from handheld GPS devices to smartphone applications, the introduction of green books for reading greens, and the legal compliance of these tools. Pete shares insights into the mapping techniques used to gather data for greens and the challenges of user interface design, including battery life for mobile devices. The conversation also touches on the innovative features of the GolfLogix app, including its integration with Aimpoint, user feedback on app updates, and the groundbreaking 3D technology that enhances the golfing experience. Check them out at golflogix.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Mike Burke from Elverst, Illinois.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
I play at cag Hill. Welcome to Golf Smarter. Hi.
This is Tamaso Johnson in Seattle, Washington, and I play
at the Links at inter Bay. This is Golf Smarter
oneenty thirteen. All it takes is confirming that you have
the read write. Now you're playing with confidence. That's what
the app is all about. The golf Lodget app experience
is really about playing with confidence, playing with precision, playing

(00:29):
with intelligence. How do you get out there and just
see the course, have that vision when you're standing on
the tee, when you're making that approach on the green.
Once you get pretty good at reading these green maps
and approach, and let's not forget about approach, it's every
bit as important as a green. Like when you get
to see the green from the approach and where the
pin is, your course management gets way better and you

(00:49):
certainly score lower. And so once you get good at that,
you can literally walk up behind your ball, whether you're
using the phone, the book, the watch, and just take
a very quick look and you'll never walk the putt again.
And it's not cheating. Most of don't get a play
with the caddy. All this is is allowing any amateur
to play without having the caddy behind him. But it's
like someone whispering your friend, this put's a little uphill.

(01:09):
I want you to hit it like two feet past
and it's going to move right to left. I know
your little rotten eyes are telling you left or right,
but this is a right to left.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Or revolutionizing your golf experience using the golf Logics app
with the founder, Pete Charleston. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories,
tips and insights from great golf minds to help you
lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host,

(01:40):
Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Pete, Hello, Uncle Fred. Good to be back on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Okay, you can get away with that, right. Pete is
friends with one of my nephews and who always, even
in his fifties, calls me Uncle Fred, which is a
adorable and so he introduces me when I go out
to Arizona and I visit him and we go out
and play at Arizona Country Club. He always introduces me
as uncle Fred, so all his buddies call me Uncle Fred.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Got to go with Uncle Fred, I want to be
adorable too.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
You are, buddy. So this is the third time that
you've been on Golf Smarter. First time we met on
the show was well, the first time you were introduced
to the Golf Smarter community was in November of twenty nineteen,
and then you returned in June of twenty twenty. So
it's great to have you back five years later to

(02:36):
talk about what you guys claim to be the number
one app in golf, and it's Golf Logics with an.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
X with an AX. Yeah, it's great to be back on. Yeah,
a lot, a lot has happened in five years. We
were always moving and shaking and you know, trying to
change things and tweet things, and you know, I think
we made another, you know, big step since we spoke last.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
I'm so excited to hear about it. I've just returned
from three weeks on vacation, not thinking about golf, letting
everything publish on its own, which I set up ahead
of time, including that grade Chim NaN's piece, but so
so now here. I my head's back. As soon as

(03:21):
I got back, first thing I told my wife I
wanted to do is I need to go play some
golf I mean, it's like I need to just go
hit something. And so I was able to play a
couple times and bring out the Golf Logics app, the
new version, except I didn't have the upgrade available to me,

(03:41):
so I still used it. And we'll talk about the
details of that in a few minutes, but I want
to go back and talk about other things that's been
going on, because this is a fascinating story. You were
a golf app playing app way head of the game.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, it's crazy. So my partner and I started this
in nineteen ninety nine, so we are definitely we are
old school for the golf industry. Twenty five years here,
and you know, we were actually the first company to
do a handheld GPS for golf. We ended up partnering
with Garman. We were selling systems, handheld systems to golf

(04:23):
courses all around the world. We have Pebble and Valderrama
and Mission Hills in China, traveled all over the world.
But we realized that the consumers that we wanted to
get in the consumers hands, and you know, at the time,
using electronic measuring devices they were illegal, illegal according to the
rules of golf. So technically you put it close to handicap.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, and it was probably also what seven eight years
before the iPhone came out and the whole app ecosystem.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Happened yep, yeah, maybe ten.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Years before the ecosystem happened.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah, So this device we with garment, I mean, it
was great, but it was ahead of its time. And
you know, back then, if you asked somebody you put
ten people in a room and said what does GPS
stand for, I'd say maybe one if they were a
pilot or like a high end yachtsman. Other than that,
they're just the personal navigation devices. They weren't out. The
car nab wasn't there when we started this. So now

(05:22):
it's just you know, like you know, GPS is everywhere
you look, and everybody knows exactly what it is, what
it does.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, you know, they made it easy for you, Pete.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Our business model definitely improved after the GPS did, for sure.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah. Yeah, and then you went through so keep going
with that evolution of how technology caught up with you.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah. You know, we kept slugging away and putting these
things on golf courses, and I think we realized that
this was not the model that was gonna, you know,
put my kids through college. I actually didn't have kids
back then, but.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Now you're getting closed, now I do.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, I got to actually think about it. Uh. But
in two thousand and six, the USGA changed that stance,
and you know, they allowed electronic measuring devices, and so
we went back to our shareholders like, hey, you know,
we need to raise more money. Let's go out, let's
put this at retail. And uh, you know, in six uh,
you know, we we kind of transitioned into this, you know,

(06:22):
to the consumer market and had three just amazing years
of explosive growth. We were on the you know, the
Golf channel, if you remember they used to have the
old thirty second infomercial and uh, you know, for the
older members in your audience, like like me and you,
the cob had cost us them accord and they were
yucking it up. And you know, we spent more money

(06:43):
on the Golf Channel in two years than almost anybody
on these infomercials. And you know, it was it was
a special time. We were just cranking. We were in
all tons of golf courses, we were in all the
major sports retailers, and you know, things were going great.
And then eight Arizon have felt it because we're a
real estate uh you know, city, country or state, and

(07:07):
we we kind of heard about the first phone that
was going to come out with GPS, and we're like,
I don't think people are going to keep buying this
with this downturn. We need to find a better solution.
And you know, sure enough, we we went to our
shareholder and said, hey, we need more money. And I
know we're doing the best we've ever done. It's time
to pivot. We need to be on a phone because
then that's going to be in everyone's pocket. And so

(07:30):
we ended up being the first company to launch, you know,
on on a smartphone. And funny enough, it was BlackBerry
that the BlackBerry Curve that we launched on with this
little you know screen about yay big and yeah, a
little little keypad, but it was a touch screen, which
was a treat for us because we were using you know,

(07:51):
we didn't have touch screen with our prior handeld devices.
And then Apple came right behind it with their first phone,
and you know, we just just took off again, and
you know, I had this incredible run you know through
the you know, call it all the way up to
like sixteen. And in twenty sixteen, we saw the first

(08:14):
tour players out on the green and they were they're
holding a book on the green and we couldn't figure
out what they were doing because we know you had
the yardage books, right, they've had them for as long
as you can remember. They've had little hand drawn yards
books and they're out referenced. But this is the first
time you start seeing people out on the green and
you're like, you know, they're looking at it, looking at
their caddy, and we're like, what do they have? And
we got a hold of one and realized that they

(08:35):
had mapped all the green contours and they had arrows
and contours, and so we're going, oh wow, like this
is something that no one else has, Like this is
the pot of gold. Most everybody, including me, struggle reading greens,
and you know, here you give the opportunity for every
player to feel like they have a caddy standing behind

(08:56):
and reading their putt. And it took us a long
time to figure out how to harness it was a
newer technology to harness this technology, and not only harness it,
so we created something that you know, gave really viable
putting feedback, but to actually put it in an app
with a user interface that people could work with. Like

(09:19):
at first we're like, oh, we got it, and then
people are like, I don't even know what this means. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
People had never seen you know, the you know, the greens,
and you know, we were the first company to launch,
you know, in the app with these green contours and
these we call them heat maps, which basically show the

(09:40):
elevation so you know kind of in ours the red
and orange and yellow or kind of the real you know,
five six seven eight slope and then you know, as
you get down to the blue and white, that's your
real flat areas. And it was it was immediate. I
mean people people were like, oh wow, this is this
is just different. And then what's crazy is the last

(10:02):
time we talked in twenty twenty. As a byproduct of
this in app experience with Greens, we had so many
people reach out and say, I love this, but I
don't like taking my phone to the green. Can you
give me a paper version of it? And we're like, yeah,
we're a software company, you know, we don't do paper,

(10:24):
you know, And it just kept yeah, just kept but
I mean it just kept going and going and going
and we're like, all right, there's something to this and yes,
and so we're like, great, let's give it a try.
And well, of course we reach out. At the time
in twenty twenty, no one was doing print on demand one, right,

(10:45):
you know, Fred, you want to order the course down
the street and you want to order one, I can't
stock it because there's eighteen thousand courses just in the US.
And so we had to figure out this inline printing
solution that would take an order, send it through the system,
kick a book out the other end, have the shipping software,

(11:05):
put it in an envelope, and ship it right fulfill
it all like in the same day. So we had
to build it ourselves, which was an experience. And that's
when I was talking to you last time. We had
just built this crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
Correct yeah if I remember correctly, with a very expensive
printing press.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Oh yeah. We had these paper cutters and these binders
that would like fold and staple. I mean, it's just
I mean it was very interesting time. And I packed
a lot of boxes and made a lot of trips
to the post office, you know, as all entreprens do. Yeah,
I mean it was, but it was it was a
fun time, but ultimately it went so well that we

(11:45):
ended up getting we found a fulfillment company that could
actually do it. You know, I take this off our hands, like,
you know, because then you can scale. And so since then,
we we've we've done an amazing job, you know with
these green books. The app is continue to be incredibly successful,
and finally we we actually did our first major app overhaul.

(12:09):
We just redid the entire thing and launched in late April.
So it's been a long time coming, but very exciting.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
So the books are still happening, You're still doing those,
and you've said me to like, but I was like,
wait a minute, I got a book here for the
course that I play all the time, and I guess
for country club players, which I'm not, but I have
a favorite course. How often do they pull that out?
It's like, yeah, yeah, I got this, I got this.
Are they still using the books?

Speaker 1 (12:42):
That's that's our target demographic? Really yeah, yeah, fascinating most
And I'm you know, I am now I'm going to
say it. I'm absolutely addicted to having, you know, my
green book and we actually will talk about today, but
I have it on the watch as well now just
even better, But I'm addicted to having that with me

(13:06):
at all times. Now. It's that Arizona Country Club which
you've played. The green breaks are very subtle, but I
probably break between my watch and my green book seven
eight holes a day. I'm just not sure, you know.
And all it takes is confirming that you have the

(13:27):
read write and now you're playing with confidence. And that's
that's what this is all about. That's what the app
is all about. Are the golf Loge app experience is
really about, you know, playing with confidence, playing with you know, precision,
playing with intelligence. You know, how do you get out
there and just you know, see the course, you know,

(13:49):
have that vision when you're standing on the tee, when
you're making that approach on the green. That's that's what
this whole new thing is all about.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well it's perfect because that's what this game is all about.
You play with confidence, you play better. It's that simple.
Because how often you stand over a shot going oh yeah,
so sure about this? You feel your tension all the
way down your body and your head's dictating I'm going
to make a mistake here. So playing with confidence anything
you can get is awesome. Now, is it legal? Tell

(14:22):
me where we are with that and what's going these days.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Everything in our app is legal. The green books are
one hundred percent complaint. You know, we don't make any
non complaint green books. You can use those in any
tournament where they're allowed. And so we've got junior golfers,
the best junior golfer in the country or buying these books.
You know, we got high school, college, you know, we've
got you know, people playing in there, you know, Buddies,

(14:48):
member guest, you know, they're they're definitely out there and
everywhere the app. The one difference in our app and
we're with us relaunch, we stripped out the abilit to
turn off the non compliant features, but we're going to
put it back in here shortly. We just had to
get the app live. But the only thing that you

(15:09):
cannot do, which is a really cool feature by the way,
when you're on the green, we built a physics engine
that allows you to basically, you know, tap the screen
here's the cup, and then you just here's the ball,
and then you hit read my putt, and it runs
a physics engine and will predict the perfect putt and

(15:29):
so the rea it'll tell you right on the screen
just like a caddy. Would you know, hey, I want
you to aim twelve inches short and one ball left.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Whoa, it's amazing because now you're putting name point and
everybody else out of business. That's incredible.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Remind me to talk about a point. I want to
come back to that after after we get through this.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah, game point. I'm glad I brought it up.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
But amazing technology and which, by the way, you don't
need it. I mean, once you get pretty good at reading,
uh these green maps and and and approach, and let's
not forget about approach like it's every bit as important
as a green Like when you get to see the
green from the approach and where the pin is, your

(16:19):
course management, you know, gets way better and you you
certainly score lower.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
But yeah, you can really pinpoint your distances at that.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Point, right yep. And so once you get good at that,
you can literally walk up behind your ball, whether you're
using the phone, the book, the watch, and just take
a very quick look and you'll never walk the putt again,
you literally And it's not cheating, it's I mean, most
of us don't get a put of the caddy, right,
This is all this is is allowing any amateur to

(16:48):
play without having you know, without having the caddy behind them.
But it's like someone whispering you'roine fred ankle Fred. I
want you to this puts a little uphill. I want
you to hit it like two feet past and it's
going to move right to left. I know your little
rotten eyes are telling you left or right, but this
is a right to left or you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
So it's but you don't have an AI voice talking
to me right, You're just looking at this.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Should I better? I better? Uh?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, I'd love to be the voice of that. Hey,
this is uncle Fred, and your butt's going to break
from left to right about four inches.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, don't mess this up. Trust trust the read.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Absolutely, trust the read. Trust the read. I need to
go back to something because I'm really curious about this.
When you first saw somebody with a book that had
the greens, you know, mapped out, and you were like,
what is that? You said, we found somebody whose book
we can look at.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Who was oh that is we can't tell you that,
but uh we did, uh we we did get a
hold of one, and it was it was hard or
you know, you know, getting one. But you know once,
once you saw it, we were like, oh wow, now
I will tell you this when we saw it. You know,

(18:11):
I'm over fifty as well, and my eyes don't work
quite as good as they used to. But the green
books that we saw are like, oh no, no, no,
we're going to make these things readable for people over
the age of fifty as well. So we made bigger
arrows and boulder arrows and boulder colors. Yeah, it was.
It was very difficult to decipher. But most tour pros

(18:33):
are you know, in their twenties and thirties, you know. Yeah,
so it's the same with the caddies. So that was
the only subtle tweak we made there.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
So where does this information come from? Because you can't
go out and map every single green I mean it's
mapping courses is one thing. And getting the GPS data
on distances, you know, that's great from you know, Google
or wherever it comes from. But where do you go
at the distances, elevation change directions, all that information for greens?

(19:08):
How do you acquire that?

Speaker 1 (19:11):
There's a bunch of different teams. Yeah, there's we've got
we're almost a twenty. I think we're a little over
twenty thousand now worldwide.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
But yeah, there's a bunch of different techniques. You know.
One of them is actually you do go to the
course with a scanner, you do go to the course
with a drone. And then there's you know other solutions
where you have you know, low flying aircraft you know
that that use this technology called light ar that captures
this incredible data. I mean it really truly is you know,

(19:41):
if you leave the flagstick in you see it like
if you if you left you know, a golf ball
on the ground, that's the kind of elevation you can
actually see. It's it's that detail. And so you know,
when you're looking at these greens and you're not trusting me,
and you're like, Pete, I don't believe it, and you're
you know, I don't believe in your greens, it's you know,

(20:03):
in the center meter type of accuracy. And so it's
it's your eyes that aren't lining you up correctly. And
that's the art form here, you know, the first time,
first few times you got to look at it. Oh
and a helpful hint is imagine you're standing behind your ball,
you're looking at your read, you're looking at the pin.
If you poured a giant bucket of water on the green,

(20:25):
where would where would the water run off to?

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Not even.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
You just you just need to get your brain like, oh,
so those arrows, if it's going, you know, slightly out
the right and coming back to the left, that means
it's you know, a little right to left breaker. If
you're seeing the arrows point towards you, that's an uphill putt.
If you're seeing the arrows point away from you, that's
a downhill putt. And then it varies depending on how

(20:50):
much those arrows are turning in point learn.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, we learned from on golf smarter years ago from
a golf course architect, and I'm like, I remember asking him,
you know, people say it breaks to the water, it
breaks to the ocean, it breaks to the mountain. Is
that true? And they went, no, No, it's all about irrigation.
You can't have a flat green because you have to
have the water roll off somewhere. So it all it's

(21:16):
all about where the water would go if you're pouring
a glass of water or something. But it's all about
where the water is for irrigation purposes, to get the
water off the green.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, yeah, And there's a lot of courses where you're
right where oh yeah, this breaks towards the city. This
breaks towards the It doesn't till it doesn't until the
architect took that green and you know, made it look
like it's going like this, and yet it's actually uphill.
You know, you see it all the time and it
looks like a downhill. Put it's actually uphill. And that's
because the architect. This is what he did. And you know,

(21:49):
this doesn't lie. This tells you exactly what the ground does.
So whether you're approaching from the fairway or you're you know,
you've got a pitch shot, or you've got a chip shot,
a bunker shot, you know, or you're putting on the green,
you know what's going on up there and that that
will help you shave a ton of strokes of your game.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
And you're saying that the information that you get on
the app, you'll also if you have an Apple Watch
or I guess if this works Android and Apple.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yes, So we launched on Apple first, and that's kind
of our testing ground. And I know I was on
a call last Friday morning, I believe our development call,
and I think by mid to late this month, in June,
June of twenty five, June of twenty twenty five, we

(22:43):
will have the Android done as well.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Okay, okay, so you're telling people when we recorded this,
because they won't be hearing this probably till August. But
that's well, great, Now, what kind of impact. One of
the things that I get frustrated about when I'm using
an app and then i'm it also works on my phone,
is my watch battery dies by the thirteenth hole. There

(23:06):
were real battery drains.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, and when we launched let's go back, let's back
up to two thousand and nine, when we came out
on the first you know, smartphone battery issue was huge,
you know back then, like they just hadn't figured out
the batteries, and you know, you had to come up
with all these solutions to protect the golfer and their battery,

(23:29):
and so they had a great user experience. I will
tell you now, if you've got a problem with your
battery on your phone now with Golf, GPS or any
app for that matter, you need to get a new phone.
Because the new phone is just they don't have any
battery issues.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
We have an iPhone ten yeah, it's time to well
thirteen or fourteen, it's time to upgrade.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, yes, it is what it is. But with respect
to the watch again, now we've we've got a new
problem we're solving for the newer ones as you get
into the you know those the bigger ones, the ultras,
those things, the battery life is really good and they're
going to continue to get better and better. But just
know we're continually working on different methods and features and

(24:15):
color palettes and you know, things that will you know,
bring the brightness down but yet you still be able
to see. You know, we're we're definitely always thinking about
the user interface and how to make that experience work.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Were you a serial entrepreneur leading up to nineteen ninety
nine when you launched this the first time? Were you
dabbling in all these different things? Where did you come from?

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Fred, I've never had a job, which is a good
or bad? I guess I don't know. My resume is
you know, you know, kind of funny. But now, before
before we started this, you know, my partner Scott and
I we we created a company called Golf I mean
Premium Cigars International. We were part of this group that

(24:59):
launched the product. Were the first company to put premium
cigars in humid orders in convenience stores across the country.
Oh yeah, yeah it.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Was NBA guys or no, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I love Nbay absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
That's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
And since ninety nine when you started golf Logics as
that been totally your focus. Yeah, are you still dabbling
in other ideas?

Speaker 1 (25:27):
Now? This is I mean, as you can see, as
we've talked through all these different pivots we've made over
the years, this is an investors Oh yeah, all the
things that you're navigating on a daily basis, you know,
there's not a lot of time left to go out
and come up with other crazy ideas. But you know,
as long as we're we're continually creating and building and

(25:48):
you know, innovating, you know, and things like you know,
when we'll I know, we'll get into it. But this
new three D view that we came out with in
our app, it's freaking crazy like it it's just it's
crazy like when you look through the screen and you
see what's in front, you're like, oh oh wow, you know,
it's it's definitely the wow factor.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
It definitely is now just before we started recording, you
helped me upgrade to the premium model, and since I
lived next to a golf course, I was able to
just like tap right into it. And you've got a
three hundred and sixty degree view. If you're holding your
phone up, you can turn it. You can turn your
body all the way around and see everything with shot direction.

(26:37):
It's it's really remarkable. Oh look there's the Milky Way.
Now that's not on there, but good idea. You don't
want to put the stars in there. We will break
down the new functions and features of this three d

(26:58):
amazing golf Logics app. But I need to get to
aim point. Is now the time? Can I ask you
about aim?

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah? Yeah, Well it's funny because you said, oh, this
is going to put a point out of business, and
you know I would say it's actually the opposite. You know,
we we know the folks at a point and and
I know a lot of people that use their their
their great system, right. I mean, you have to spend
some time to learn the system. But if you learn

(27:26):
their system, you are a better putter. You're a better
putter like I just there's no doubt about it. And
one of the things that's hardest in their learning process
is you got to you know, you kind of get
the slope and you're holding a series of fingers up
and you come up with a number. Well, we have
the number. And there's a setting actually in in in

(27:47):
the golf Lyders app where you can actually lay the
instead of having you know, just the arrows and the contours,
you can actually drop in the slope percentages so you
can look actually what the slope is, you know, between
you and the ball. So I would say this is
actually a friend of uh you know, a yeah, yeah,

(28:08):
we we we solve one of the problems you know
that you need to solve to be able to do
the rest of it that is important with aim points.
So no, they're they're great.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Awesome, awesome. So tell me about some of the testimonials
that you get about people who are just blown away
by using this app.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Well, I have to start with the inverse first, and
only because we're in the heat of it right now.
But when when you we haven't done a major like
a major app you know, overhaul in probably six years,
right right, you get a lot of people, you know,
imagine we have hundreds of thousands of people using our
our app on any given weekend and when yeah, thank you.

(28:49):
But when you change, change is not always easy, so
golfs oh boy. So the first wave of feedback is
never good. It's always the people that are like god,
you know, they're just and you're like, yeah, our customer now,
and I get it. Changes changes hard, but you know,

(29:11):
just know, we're just trying to make a better app
experience and we're not going to nail it in the
first month of the first two months, right. I mean,
we do all of our testing and you know, we've
got focus groups and all these different people out trying
every before we launch. But you can't predict what you
really don't know, and it takes a lot of rounds.
But the feedback is valuable. You know when someone calls

(29:33):
and said, ah, is that okay? Why are you saying that?
Oh oh, we didn't think of it that way. Okay,
what if we tweak this? So we do a lot
of active work with people that call into complain and
we turn them into you know, coach us up, how
do we make it better?

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Right?

Speaker 1 (29:52):
And and you learn.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
How much can you learn when somebody goes, I love this,
thank you?

Speaker 1 (29:57):
I mean it does feel good, don't get me wrong.
Fred like, yeah, yeah, but you don't make any changes.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
You don't just like we go like, oh we're good today.
Yeah yeah, you buy it. Okay, fine, we're great.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah. So we get a we do and have you know,
with our Apple reviews and this and that. But we're
able to reach out and you know, work with these
folks and understand their their logic, and you know, some
of it is unreasonable, and you know, others were like, wow,
what a great idea. That's not hard to do. We're

(30:28):
going to fix that. So, I mean, anybody that's got
our app, you're going to see updates, probably certainly within
the first three months after a launch. I mean we're
throwing an update out every two weeks, you know, at
a bare minimum, you know, wow. I mean, because it's
just and there are a lot of times it's just
real little little things. You know. One of the things

(30:51):
that you know, I just my feedback. You know, the
watch is going live this week with the new build,
and you know, I got it using the test build,
and I'm like, this is too small. I know you
wanted to jam all this information on here, but I'm
telling you, I don't wear my glasses when I'm mountain
playing and I'm wearing polarized you know, sunglasses, and I

(31:12):
can't see these numbers, and oh, you know, and a
lot of our developers or you know, twenties, thirties and
early forties, and you know, they're like, what do you
mean you can't see it. I'm like, well, you just wait.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
I want to say, yeah, right, don't worry, don't wait
while you're working on it, get to it now. Yeah,
just trust me on this one.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, I mean those are the type of you know,
real kind of deep dive as we take into you know,
the user interface.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
I want to talk about my user experience with it again.
I was not using the new, the upgraded version yet,
but it's still using the latest version of the free app.
And let's let everyone know there's a free app here
at golf logics dot com or on your app store
wherever you get it. But I was telling you that
I played a couple of rounds this week and I

(32:07):
was using it, and I compared it with the stats
that I got from Arcos, which I don't have to
pay attention to, right, I have the Arcos tabs on
my on my clubs, and so at the end, I
wanted to look back and see how it compared. And
because Arcos is really detailed and it's very good, but

(32:29):
it's a whole different kind of system, right, very very different.
But statistically, you guys were right on the money as
far as my score, fairways, greens and regulation, number of putts,
and but you gave me things like how many misputts,

(32:51):
how many green side bunkers, how many pitches, how many
you know, like things like that were on a simple
look at the end of the round. All this information
is like, that's really valuable stuff. I love that.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, we we and Anarcos has been in the game
a long time and they've they've they've done a great
job building their you know, their technology. You know, their
technology has a lot to do with learning after you play, right, like,
you know, going back and looking at They've made a

(33:24):
seamless way for you to collect a lot of performance
data while you're out there, club distances and such, and
so when you're done, you're actually able to look at
in a lot of different new and unique ways. Our
primary goal has been how do I help you while
you're on the course, right, And so I'm trying to

(33:44):
make you smarter why you play. I'm trying to help
you lower your score while you're playing the game of
golf in it, and we do offer you know, a
number of we get real deep. If you start, we
default only the four things on, but if you click
on them expanded, like you said, you must have done it,
like you can get down and you can get really

(34:05):
down on the nitty gritty and track a tremendous amount
of things out there, and then you get to look
at it afterwards. So I feel like we're the best
of both worlds. But we don't at this time, and
not to say we won't hear in the future, but
we don't auto track your shots, right, we don't. We're
not telling you actually have to just tap the screen

(34:26):
on the t box, tap the screen on the fairway,
you know, if you want your distances. Whereas you know
a company like Arcos's, you know it's swing detected.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Right right, Okay, So may I make a suggestion, please
a criticism? But what when you have when I'm entering
the data of the score, you know, if I was
in a bunker or if I hit the fairway, enter
that data at the end of each hole, which is
not a problem, and I'm looking forward to doing that

(34:59):
on my work if possible. But on the greens when
you're finished, it asked you about did you go left
of the hole, right of the hole, above the hole
or below the hole right? And it kind of confused
me because here I am on a downhill putt that
went long. Am I love the hole? Or am I

(35:19):
below the hole? Right? Because now I'm coming back, so
I'm now below the hole, So I would have preferred
my suggestion and do whatever you want with this is
long or short, yep, versus above or below?

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Okay, No, that's it's funny, it's great feedback. What the
goal of what we're trying to achieve is are you
leaving the putt short? You know? Are you hitting it long?
Are you missing the right? You're missing the left? But
maybe the terminology could be improved to where you know.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
It's yeah, I mean I had I had a long,
very long I had a very long downhill putt. Yeah, right,
that I left three feet past the hole.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
So I'm like, which, by the way, is what you're
supposed to do?

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah? Exactly. No, I was happy with the butt. That's
not the issue. I too, putted on a seventy foot
put my first one. But and what I found out
is two of the people I was playing with had
bets on how far I was going to be from
the hole because they, you know, we were at the
fourteen to fifteenth hole at that point, and I was
I was hitting my leg shots pretty well. Yeah, and

(36:25):
then this guy like, yeah, I had you at seven
feet and you were at six so that's pretty good.
But anyway, I was, now I am below the hole
going up, but I went long, so I didn't know, like,
was that above the hole? I know, I didn't know
how to respond to that.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I I'm gonna I already I already locked that in
and and things like that are very easy, right, that's
a late change, yeah, one word. Yeah, it's not a
you know, a true UI change where we have to
redevelop something. It's like, hey, how about our terminal? Is
you know long short? Do you miss long short right

(37:04):
or left left?

Speaker 2 (37:05):
You're right?

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, listen.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
I I don't have a lot of criticisms about this app.
And I've used a lot of golf apps. We featured
a lot of golf apps on this show. Uh, And
I'm really impressed with this one. Uh well, you call
me uncle Fred. How can I not be? So let's
get into the new stuff and the AI and three D.

(37:29):
Let's let's dig deep.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Sure, the the true groundbreaking thing that that we launched
in this new you know, overhaul is the ability you're
standing on the first tee or at home for that matter,
but you're standing on the first t and you're looking
down the fairway and you're seeing those trees on the left,
You're you're seeing that bunker on the right, and you're

(37:54):
seeing you know, kind of distances, your carry distances pop
up in the field of you. So hey, it's two
twenty five to the left bunker. It's you know too,
you know, forty two to carry that left bunker. And
it's so it's very obvious if you walk or drag
your finger down the fairway, the view starts to change

(38:14):
and so you're actually you're able to see, you know better,
able to see what's up in front of you. So,
you know, this is the first time someone's actually been
able to It's always been a you know, we've tried
to make our imagery, our whole imagery three D, and
you know, and try all those things. But this is
the first time you've actually had a real immersive experience,

(38:36):
you know, when you're out there playing and if you
actually in the setup process that you actually put in
your your club distances. You know, obviously in your in
your mind, Hey, I hit my driver between this range,
I hit my my irons, my wedges, blah blah blah.
If you put that in, you can actually almost play
around a golf you know, preview around the golf on

(38:59):
a course that maybe you're going to go play, and
it'll show you your club distances and where you would land.
So it's really it's really interesting. It's you know, I
can really see this if you're going to play your
buddy's member, guest, or you're a junior golfer, a high
school golfer and you haven't played a course. I mean,

(39:20):
why would you not spend a half hour, you know,
pre playing this course. Oh I don't need driver on
this hole. Oh this is a three with all this.
Oh this is just my hybrid off the tee. Oh
I've got to stay. I got to really watch out
for the left side here.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
I hate to interrupt you, I'm sorry, but I know
when I go to play new courses. I'll go to
their website, of course website and watch the videos.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
As the holes.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Well, this changes that dramatically by being in three D,
and I guess what you're doing is eliminating line shots?

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah, what's really out there?

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Can I Can I go over these trees? Do I
have to go around? What's on the other side of
these this? You know this dog leg? How far do
I have to get to it? I mean that's remarkable.
Great information again, information.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Again, It's it's that intelligence, you know, it's not playing
smarter and that confidence, right Like when you're standing on
that tee, unsure of what's up there, and you're like,
I'll hit my now most of us, I'll hit my driver,
you know, And then you get up and you're like,
oh man, right over this bunker is the water and
I couldn't see it, and you know, everything funnels down

(40:42):
to the right. Now I'm blinded. You know, I'm blocked
by a tree. You know, that shouldn't happen again. Like,
so you you could take a different line or use
a different club just by standing on the t box
because you have this new information.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Tell me about some of your competitors that you look
to and go, hmm, that's a good idea.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Wow. Well, I would like to say we thought of
everything first, but we've been in the game so long,
you don't. I've been asked this a number of times.
You know, how come you guys don't have you know,
it's that question. And most we focus on the encourse experience.

(41:28):
We focus on golf better, smarter, faster, you know, just
score lower, all those things. What we have chosen not
to do, and some of our competitors do and do
very well, is the sense of community. You know. They
it's the crap talking, you know, it's the you know,

(41:52):
the banter back and forth leader boards and you know,
things like that, being able to post your round to
social media, you know, all those different things. We did
a lot of that very early on. So in twenty eleven,
twelve thirteen, when we were doing stuff before Facebook, right
there was community driven and we realized it just wasn't

(42:14):
at the time, it wasn't who we were, and so
we focused on the encourse golf experience. But there's some
great apps out there, you know that that provide a
really you know, different service on the social side, and
who knows. I mean, we always go back and revisit things.

(42:37):
But right now we've chosen to invest our time in
R and D into things like this that makes your
playing experience better while you're out there with this you know,
new three D view. And you know, one of the
other things we just launched is the fairway view, which
you can toggle back and forth if you want to

(42:57):
look at more of a traditional view. We used to have,
you know, kind of a traced you know, a whole
imagery like you'd see on a sim and then and
then that was it, you know, but in our most
recent launch we actually now included the actual true imagery
on the surround. So now you're able to see the

(43:19):
buildings and I'm sure I probably you're looking at it
right now, but it gives you another layer and another
piece of information. And that was technically definitely a challenge
what we did there. And it looks easy you're looking
at it now, but to make that work was was definitely,
you know, technically challenging, but it's it's very cool. So
now and we've got a target, right, so a tap

(43:42):
target on every hole and so now as we don't
always hit the ball down the middle of the fairway, right,
So now all of a sudden, you're able to see
you're in the other fairway. You're actually able to see it.
You're able to see what's in between, and you're still
able to get distanced back to the hole and hopefully
you have an errant drive tug one a little bit
and and you're actually able Oh whatever, I'm only one

(44:05):
seventy eight, uh, you know, and you hit it up
on or near the green. And I just got out
of the same with a bow gear apart instead of
a double like we normally get.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
As I am, you're right, I am looking at the
app as we're talking, and it's I queued it up
to the hole right next to my backyard. Here there.
You have a lot of different buttons on the screen.
You've got, you know, the center of the green to
the front to the back. You have a two D
button and a three D button, right you want to

(44:35):
explain those?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, the three D is the view that we discussed.
This is the new groundbreaking you know view this, you know,
immersive view from the t box or the fairway. But
not everybody wants to work in that view, you know,
And so we allow you to go back and see
the we called the two D view that has the
you know, the the imagery surround with the trace hole

(44:59):
in the middle, and so that's it's super helpful there.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Also you have a compass, a camera button, yeah, an
airplane button, and what is the airplane button.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
That's that's our fly flyovers and it flies over in
that immersive three D experience and it would use the
cool thing if you don't even want to play around
with it. We talked about previewing a course and playing around.
If you hit the flyover button, it's actually going to
take if you fill in your club distances, and let's
say it's a four hundred and twenty yard part four

(45:37):
and you hit your driver two fifty, it's going to
show your two to fifty driver where it would land,
and then it's going to show what club you would
hit in towards the green. So you you actually really
quickly could flow through eighteen holes and show what clubs
you would hit based on your own averages.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Wow. And then you've got a button for club selection,
which I'm running right through now.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah. Club tracking that would be what if you wanted
to track your clubs more.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
Arcos like right, but and what I kind of like
about this. It's not asking what kind of club are
you playing? Right, It's like why is that relevant?

Speaker 1 (46:16):
It's not. It's only about do you want.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
To you know, it's like, yeah, it's like a scan
this and it's like I don't It's okay, fine, So
it does it make does it make clubs choices for you?
Does it tell you, look, you're based on your past,
I think you should be hitting your eight iron here,
blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
So no, and there's a reason for that. Okay, it'll
that is illegal. Real climb, real time club recommendation while
playing around the golf is not legal with the USGA.
So yeah, so we've stayed out right, we don't want
to provide that. It allows you to show where you're

(47:00):
club would land if you hit a club, you know,
but it does not it's not going to suggest clubs, right.
We've had it before and then we ended up pulling
it out.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, for that very reason.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
Yeah, I mean there's a balance between you know, making
sure that your rules compliant, yeah, and providing a golfer
with the tools to have more fun. Like some people
just don't write, Hey, I'm not out here, I'm not
trying to win the low gross here at a you know,
at the state, you know, amateur level. I'm just trying

(47:36):
to go out and have fun with my my pals,
and you know, I want to make sure that the
app has an experience that allows them to just enjoy themselves.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
So I just love this. Oh look at all these
little things that I've just turned on by hitting the
settings button. Oh that's a lot of information. Okay, so
you take it.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I love that you talk about playing smarter because you
know who we are, you know, and that's hopefully it's
not just the name of the show.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Might able to use that, like, am I going to
get a lawsuit in the mail? Here?

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Absolutely, Assist is already on the way, unless you want
to sign an NDA or I'll trade you if you
want to use my voice going it's Uncle Fred.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
It's Uncle Fred.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Remember Fred, you will remember. You don't want to don't
don't put from this far away off the green bad idea.
Tell me so golf Logics one word l O g
I X golf Logics dot com in your favorite app store.
What are the costs involved? Starting it free?

Speaker 1 (48:44):
The beauty of what we offer and we put our
money where our mouth is we offer free so you
download the app, like you said, you can go into
the Apple App Store or the Android Play Store. You
can go you know online if you do it on
your phone, you can check out all the different features
and then we have buttons that will take you right
into your respective store, and then we actually give you

(49:05):
a trial when when you're out there on the golf course.
So you're going to get us see the immersive three
D experience. You're going to get to see the three
D flyovers, the new imagery with the you know, with
the satellites around, and you're going to see all the
touch point distances and the green reading all those things.
And then you know, at the end of that trial,
you know, we give you a seven day trial if

(49:27):
you decide to, uh, you know, stay on and sign up.
That that that's amazing. If you don't, you're always going
to get a distance to the middle of the green
and you're going to get you know, the imagery of
the whole. You just won't have some of the you know,
those higher end features. But it's it's at sixty nine
a year and quite reasonable.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yeah, I mean it's around the.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Golf, it's around the golf and and for all these things,
and anybody that tends to wager a bit, you know
it is it is. It's not right. You make that
one putt and you may pay for the whole membership.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Right, and you'll get that putt because of reading and
getting the green read on this amazing Pete. Real happy
for you, dude, And since you call me uncle Fred,
I'll say I'm real proud of you too, and I
love having you back on and catching up together. This
is a great product and I highly recommend it, so

(50:25):
thanks so much for coming back and updating

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Us, of course, and I'm sure we're going to have
something in another couple of years, and I'll be blessed
enough to come back on your show and talk about
it again