October 10, 2025 • 36 mins
GS#443 July 1, 2014 Ever wonder why you’re a scratch golfer on the range and a bum on the course? Ken Doherty returns to discuss some technical issues, but the biggest factor is mental. Once you understand the difference, you'll see a change in your scoring.
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If you have a question about whether or not Fred is using any of the methods, equipment or apps we’ve discussed, or if you’d like to share a comment about what you’ve heard in this or any other episode, please write because Fred will get back to you. Either write to golfsmarterpodcast@gmail.com or click on the Hey Fred button, at golfsmarter.com
This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply.
This episode is sponsored by HIMS. Start your free online visit today HIMS.com/golfsmarter and received personalized ED treatment options.
If you have a question about whether or not Fred is using any of the methods, equipment or apps we’ve discussed, or if you’d like to share a comment about what you’ve heard in this or any other episode, please write because Fred will get back to you. Either write to golfsmarterpodcast@gmail.com or click on the Hey Fred button, at golfsmarter.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Golf Smarter number four hundred and forty three, originally published
on July first, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction never gets old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's not just the clubhead to me, it's their hands.
Very often when they're swinging, their hands are stopping at
the ball, and that snaps that clubhead ahead. You'll hit
behind the ball, that you can hook the ball. There's
many unfortunate things that can happen on your handstop. So
I want somebody to take their hands as they're hitting
the ball and to swing their hands out to the
target so that ensures that their hands stay forward. We
don't want to hit at the ball, like you said,
(00:50):
you want to hit through the ball. So you try
to think of either hitting through the ball swinging your
hands to the target. I like to have people pick
a spot beyond the ball, maybe an inch or two beyond,
and try to hit the ground or see their club
go through the grass beyond the ball. It can help
a tremendous amount in short game and long to actually
see your club go through the grass pass the ball.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
And I've also used this opposite effect.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
People want to get the ball in the air, so
what they do is they try to flip their hands,
they stay behind the ball, they fall away. I've told people,
I want you to hit this ball as low as possible,
drill it five feet off the ground, and they've made
perfect golf shots that go exactly the height they're supposed to,
and they hit them crisply. When somebody tries to hit
the ball low, they instinctively know, Okay, I've got to
(01:33):
del off the club. I got to get my hands
forward and try to hit this ball low and get
my way to the left.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
That's how you hit a golf ball.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
How to take your a game from the range to
the course With Ken Doherty.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
This is Golf Smarter.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Ken. Thank you,
it's great to have you back on the show. It's
great to have you back on the studio. I appreciate
also let people know you and I recently did a
video together that's on the golf Smarter YouTube page golf
Smarter TV. And even though we did it for Marine
Country Club, I think everybody should be aware of this
(02:15):
because we did it on course care and little things
that you should know, and most importantly to me, how
to clean up your divots on the green.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, what we did applies to every golf course, every
single golf course.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Absolutely. I mean I now since I feel like, okay,
this is how you put a rake back in the bunker.
You know, some people just throw them there, they're in
the bunker, they're sitting on the side. No, we put
it down with the handle sticking out.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, there are different rules when it comes to that
for different clubs. Some like them in, some like them out.
So some like the head in with a handle out.
That's how we do it, but there are different rules
for there. But as far as fixing a ball mark
and raking the bunker and things like that, they're pretty standard.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I still go back to my number one rule
that everyone should be following, which is spend more time
cleaning up divots on the green than looking for lost balls.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah if only, Yeah, okay, I guess so.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
But today I wanted to talk about taking your a game.
How do we take our a game from the driving
range to the golf course? And you and I were
having a conversation about this once and you mentioned that
it's a very different type of golf on the range
because of the balls, your mindset, things like that, and
(03:37):
I thought it was worth pursuing because there's some tidbits
in there that someone's gonna be able to walk away
with going, Okay, I'm going to be a better player
because of that.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I don't even know where to begin. I mean, there's
so many variables when it comes to all right, let
me let me throw one out on the range. The balls, yeah,
well let's start with that. In most cases, they're very different.
They're not the quality of the golf ball you use
on the on the golf course. In fact, we took
our yardage markers away because we have limited flight golf
ballsk because we have a little shorter range, and we
(04:07):
don't feel that are if they hit range ball, If
they hit a range ball one hundred and fifty yards,
a good golf ball or one that you take to
the golf course will go further. So it's really not
a good indication of how far they're hitting the golf ball.
So I don't want I don't want that, for lack
of a better phrase, that false advertisement. I don't want
them thinking they're hitting at one hundred and fifty yards.
(04:29):
They go to the golf course, take that eight iron
or seven iron, and now they're hitting at one hundred
and sixty hundred and sixty five yards, don't I don't
think the range should be used for yardage anyways. I
think that should be used for hitting the ball straight
and working the ball and working some of those kinks.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Out well, I would tend to I don't know if
I'm gonna disagree with you on this, but where are
you going to learn how far you hit each club?
It's really hard to do on the golf course because
you need to know. It's one of the things that
I'm having with my right now is like he's really
complaining he's not very good, and I said, well, learn
how far you hit each club? You don't know. You're
(05:07):
asking me if I had a five iron here. I
don't know how far do you hit a five iron?
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yeah, I think you can do some of that on
the range, but to be exact and know exactly how
you hit it. I will tell somebody to go out
in the late evening when nobody's around, and if you're
not quite sure how far your clubs go, or how
far your seven iron goes, or whatever the club you're
you're looking to find out, take three or four golf
balls from certain distances and hit them to the green
(05:34):
using you know, your GPS or whatever device you have
to see how far. And then you'll know for sure
because it's on the golf course, it's actual yardage, it's
the real ball, and so on.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's fine for country clubs.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, you're right, you're right. It's not an easy task.
You're right.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
No, So is there a way? Well, should we basically
assume that every course is using low compression golf balls
on the range? Not necessarily, So how do we find
so we need to find that out before we even
start hitting balls from them.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Well, it's not just low compression. I don't think a
lot of people use the the limited flight golf.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Balls as we do.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I meant limited flight.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
But there's also range ball differences from from your average
golf balls. Some some country clubs use brand new titleists
or brand new callaways for their range balls. They might
have a stripe around them, but they're actual golf balls.
To me, that's realistic. But how many of those practice
on the Yeah, if they say practice, you know they're
(06:33):
they're they're not the quality of a golf ball you're
gonna be playing on the golf course.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So how are we able to compute that? When we're like, Okay, good,
I'm hitting these limited range, limited flight balls. I'm hitting
at one hundred and fifty yards with my six iron.
How do I say, okay, So that means with my
pro V one X, my pro V one, my Dixon
(07:00):
Earth Dixon wind ball, how much more is that gonna fly?
How do we figure that out?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
How do we I don't think you can do it exactly.
And let's just say you've got a bucket of brand
new range balls. Well, then you can have some idea,
maybe calculate ten percent or whatever.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
You're not going to get exact.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
But the problem with with with most ranges is you've
got some old golf balls, you've got some new golf balls.
They're not going to fly the same. I've hit two
shots that I thought that were the same. One falls
out of the sky and the other one sails. That's
too inconsistent for me to to be concerned about how
far that ball's going.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
It's a real tough one because that's the first place
in the uh in the golf course where you definitely
see a difference. Like I was hitting that one a
you know, like all day long, I can hit it,
so I know that for me, what I'll what I'll
tend to do is with a bucket that has mixed
balls of old and new, and you eats pretty obvious
(07:59):
which they are a lot older and which ones are
a lot newer, just by the shining, because they don't
really clean them that well, just get the dirt off
of it. But if it's if it's a beat up ball,
I'll use that for my short game. I'll just use
that to work on my stroke for the pitching and
the chipping, which I do a lot of. Like I
have one driving range over here Indian Valley that it's
a line of mats, and what I do is just
(08:23):
hit over the mat. It's like, Okay, I want to
hit that mat. Now, I want to hit that because
there's no one else there. I want to hit the
third mat. Now, I want to hit the fourth mat,
you know, and see if I can get it to
bounce on each mat from thing to think. So I
take you a much.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Better way to practice, actually because you want to You
want to practice how far you hit the golf ball.
There's a lot of people that are they look at
the flag stick, and then there's others that are very
good at chipping and pitching and they pick at location
to land the ball. And picking a location to land
the ball and having a lamb. There is very important.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Target oriented golf. So let let's talk about that. Okay, Well,
I'm glad that I'm doing something right. The thing that's
hard to figure out then is how long is it
going to roll? You know, depending on But when we
talked to Dave Stockton a while ago, he said that
it's for him, it's all about is it a low
shot or is it a high shot?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
And that's how I describe them as well. If I'm
teaching that, you know, people get confused with different shots
and chip pitch, whatever you call them. It's a high
ball or a low ball, and you know, the low
ball is the one you want to hit as much
as you can, and the green's going to tell you
or the surrounding area is going to tell you whether
you need to hit a high ball, and I think
you should be hitting the high ball only when forced.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Two.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You're a big proponent of keeping the ball on the
ground as long as possible.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Not only do I believe people are
more consistent that way, but they eliminate disaster too. You
take a bigger swing and try to hit it up
in the air and you miss it slightly, and you
could hit it right over the green or put the
club in the ground and leave it right in front
of you, where if you try to hit it low
it's more of a short putting type of stroke, or
certainly below the waist, your inconsistency is much less, and
(10:02):
obviously you can almost eliminate the disastrous shot.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, And I've definitely taken to that idea and really
worked on do I need to hit a high shot
or a low shot here? Okay, there's a you know,
there's a sprinkler head there if I just need to
get over that, all right, So I'm gonna have to
go a little higher, obviously, but I just want to
get over it, or there's a bunker in the way,
or the pin is close to the side of the
(10:28):
green I'm on. Obviously, you don't want the ball to
roll a lot. You want to just kind of let
it land softly and stop.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
There are some people that are one club chip pitchers
and they use just their sandwedge or whatever it is, and.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
If they're good at it, God bless them. Good good.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But if you know, if you are struggling or you
occasionally miss one pretty badly, you probably shouldn't be using
that unless you're forced to.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Actually, there's a video that I put on our members
site from Tony Manzoni a great tip about keeping it
on the ground that when you're on the fringe or
just off the fringe on the green. He has this
tip and I've been using it and I cannot believe
how close I've been getting to the pin with these.
I take the eight iron and I use it like
(11:13):
a putter, but I stand it on the toe.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, toe down, absolutely, and just use.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
A putting motion.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Absolutely, people are like, how'd you do that? It's like,
it's not that hard. And what's funny to watch when
I show people when I learned with this is putting
it on the toe. It makes them very uncomfortable. Yeah,
people do not like to do that. Yeah, my friends
don't at least.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I saw somebody using that method thirty years ago and
he was very consistent with it. Now, it's not one
where you want to you're going to hit it a
long chip. I think that most of the time you're
going to use that method, you're fairly close because the
ball doesn't come off hot. It comes off kind of dead,
which is kind of nice. The ball doesn't get away
from you.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, and it feels like a putter roll. Yeah, once
it gets going. And I've never done it where the
ball was in the air. And when I say in
the air about six inches off the ground, I've never
done it where the ball is in the air from
more than four maybe.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Five feet exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And I have a friend who likes to use his
hybrid to do that and just get over.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
But that ball, that's perfect. When you're immediately around the green,
around that fringe area, right.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
The ball explodes off the face of the hybrid.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Well, that's true.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I mean it's a very different stroke than a putting
stroke at that point because it just it goes really
fast and I'm really good at going in other directions.
So back to the driving range and the difference between.
All right, so we started with balls, so there's really
no way of knowing you know, what kind of balls
they use. You can ask, but you're really not going
to be able to send. So you're just saying, and
(12:45):
even the older balls in these buckets that have lost
a lot of the dimples that are worn out, are
you going to be able to tell if you you're
hitting the ball straight that day?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I mean, it's going to be less curvature with a
ball that doesn't have any dimples. So it's you know,
I a lot of times ago it depends on the
golf balls. But if they're not very good to me,
that's just stretching an exercise more than practice.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So work on your short game with those bat absolutely, yeah, okay,
all right, so just no way to know. So and
I'm surprised that you took away the yardage things. I would.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Well think about it.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
If I've got range balls that are fifteen anywhere from
ten to fifteen percent less plus, we're hitting a little uphill.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right, you're hitting up hills.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You've got somebody who normally hits a seven iron, and
I'll just throw a figure out there. One hundred and
forty five yards and now they're hitting it one hundred
and thirty five yards and coming to me wondering, you know,
or they're misjudging when they're going to the golf course
and vice versa. It's just it's not a good representation
of what they're actually doing. So I don't want to
give them any false advertisement and believe it or not.
(13:54):
I you know, out of five hundred golfers over there,
well more than that, five hundred memberships and eight or
nine hundred golfers, I had two people ask me about
where they were.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
No one else, really, two people.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's it really, So it's not that big of an issue. Now,
what is the issue that comes back to you? What
are the members come back to you with this? I'm
having an issue with the driving range.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Well, it's what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Is I hit the ball great on the driving range,
but I can't take it to the golf course.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
All right, Well, before we get there, how about the
difference between hitting off of mats versus hitting off of grass.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Mats are very forgiving, and again it's not a true
test of compression, and where you're hitting on the ground,
you can hit behind the ball on a mat and
get away with it right.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
You can hit the ground first exactly and you're going
to get a good stroke off against Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah again, I much prefer as most players probably prefer
to be off the grass because there's a true test
versus the mats, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And some mats are very different. I mean, you guys
have really nice cushiony mats that I mean they don't
even the bottom of the bottom of your clubs don't
turn green on those.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Well yeah, yeah, And I'll tell you what, if you
want to give a lesson and have it be successful,
put them on the mats.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh that was it. We'll get to the lesson in
a minute, all right. So let's let's see how we
can take our a game from the course, from the
from the range to the course. How do we take
our a game when we just leaving the range going oh,
I feel great today, and then it just doesn't pan out.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Well. Most people that hit driving range balls don't have
a care in the world. They're free, they let it fly,
there's no penalty, there's no score. They've got a whole
bucket of golf balls to hit, and they swing freely,
and I mean mind. And when you go to the
golf course, that's a very different scenario there. It's one ball,
(16:05):
one hole, one score, and so on. So we tend
to get a little bit tighter, we tend to steer
a little bit course. On the golf course. Our mind
is cluttered with information, mechanics and so on, and that
is not conducive to hitting a good golf ball or
playing good golf. You've got to be able to go
(16:28):
to the golf course and be free. I'm sure there's
some of you with either played a golf course that
is wide open and you can just swing for the fences,
and those are the days that you hit it really good.
And then there's a golf course that you play very
tight and you don't swing the same. You try to
steer it or you get a little afraid to let
(16:48):
it go, and you won't hit it as good. And
you need to be able to go to that tight
golf course or that tight hole and be loose and
let it fly. And that's a tough thing to do.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Would you recommend if you feel that tension, if you
know well, you know the other thing at the driving
range is that you have multiple swings. I mean, you know,
it's like, Okay, I just took three swings and one
of them was worked. I'm ready to go.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, you know it's like get three in a row.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
You don't get a second serve, do you know?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You know I'm a second swing all American is what
we will.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Well, you can go back, we can go right into
how many times do you take a second put or
second swing and you hit it very well. That's because
it doesn't mean anything, So you're relaxed and you let
it fly, and that should give you some information about
what you should do. On the first one, we do
get too tense and swing too tightly and steer it,
and we're much freer on the second one when it
(17:45):
doesn't matter. And I've told people it seems kind of strange,
but you don't play well because you care too much.
If you didn't care, you would play well better.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And it's is that, like people say, play like a
little kid.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah. Absolutely. When you're young, you're fearless and you let
it fly. And when we're old, our mind moves a
lot more, and different experiences make us think differently as
we go on, and it makes a big difference.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Well, a couple of shows back Jim Waldron of Balance
Point Golf School, and I hate to be name dropping,
but this is my show, so I will. But Jim
talked about on putting and this was a huge one
for me. He says, the keys to putting are confidence
and positive indifference. And I think that's basically what you're saying,
(18:33):
the positive indifference.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Like Okay, I'm good, that's interesting, and if.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
It doesn't go in, I'm okay, Yeah, I'll let it go,
you know, just pull back and let it's okay and
stop overthinking it and worrying about something.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
But life for life for death on the golf course
and it's not at the range around the putting green.
It makes a big difference. Tension and what our minds
go through makes a big difference. And there's a whole
different mindset on that golf course than there is at
the rain in practicing.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Stop playing for money.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Or be able to put your mind in the right
place while you're playing for money.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, you know, so you're saying, there's so much. It's
such a mental element there is.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
And there was a gentleman that came about a year
ago at our club and he had a laptop computer,
and he hooked me and another member up to this
device where he put something on our head and it
measured electrodes and all this stuff. And this program he
had made a certain sound when you were thinking too much,
(19:35):
when you were swinging the club, and it was a
it was a tone, a long tone, and then it
would change to a different tone if your mind was clear.
And the member got it and it had the tone
that was you could tell he was thinking a lot
swinging the whole bit, and he had a very hard time,
took a long time to get out of that tone
and to clear his mind. And I was able to
(19:57):
do it pretty quickly. And the reason why is because
I don't think of mechanics when I play golf.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I pick a target. So I was on the range.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I picked home at the end of the range, a
specific window, and I looked at it, studied it, and
I swung at it.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So my mind was free. It was clear.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
And you know, there's many ways of you know, there's
books out there and so on, but this actually measured
something in your head that had your mind scrambled over
mechanics or it was clear and let you be free.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
And I believe in that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I really do that if you are too cluttered with
mechanics and stress and so on, and all the thoughts
are at the front of your mind, I think you're
going to struggle.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Then let's talk about the pre shot routine and how
that can help you clear your mind.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yes, well, pre shot routines are very good because it's familiarity.
So when you're familiar with your surroundings, you have more confidence.
So that's one of the reasons why good players always
have a.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Pre shot routine.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
So if it's in the masters or hitting range balls,
they have a familiarity with every single movement. A lot
of the average golfers don't do that. They don't have
the same movements every time. Uh, so there's less familiarity.
So preshot routines I think are very important because it's
a set arrangement and they do not deviate no matter
(21:18):
the golf course, right or situation.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Right. A lot of the a lot of the range
activity is a lot of sweep and swing and sweep
and swing and sweep and swing.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Right, we become machine guns. Yeah right, Yeah, there's no
there's not much quality there. It's more what do you
learn from that.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I mean, how what where's the takeaway on that that
you're feeling looser, that you've gotten your swings in and
you're ready to go.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
It's exercise, that's you know, that to me is what
it is mostly. And you go back to what Jack
Jack Nicholas said he never hit a shot even on
the range that he didn't make countract a purpose absolutely
every single swing. I don't know many people that do that, Yeah,
including yours, true, you know, I you know, I get
up and just start swinging before you know, you go,
whoa slow down, you know, think about this walk away,
(22:07):
you know.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I've also noticed for myself, I've been struggling
with three putts lately, and the third putt being inside
of five feet and that just kills me that I'm
that I'm doing that. But I've recognized that that's because
I walk up to it go yeah, I got it,
and I just like, if I go it's a good. No,
it's not good, but you know you got to put
(22:27):
it all right, fine, so I'll just go ahead. And
of course I missed, you know, a half inch to
the right, but I've gone back to Okay, I'm gonna
do my even on this short one, I'm going to
do my pre shot routine. And I had twenty eight
putts the other day.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Yeah, you know dif versus thirty eight. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
And when you struggle in an area like you might
struggle in those short puts, we tend to get more tense,
but we tend to rush them too.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Right things get them over quickly.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
So by you doing going into your pre shot routine
and taking that deep breath and taking your time, I'll
guarantee it helped.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And tell me about your pre shot routine. Walk us
through it.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Boy, that's why I stink. I don't I don't you know.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I probably have a pre shot routine, but I don't
think about it. It's not conscious. I probably do the
same thing every single time.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But do you teach a pre shot routine?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Depends on who it is. It depends on who it is.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
If I see somebody who's in a big hurry, I
will start to tell them, Okay, I want you to go.
I want you to back away from the ball. I
want you to look at your target. I want you
to step into it and try to develop that pre
shot routine. But most lessons, no, I don't know of
many lessons that are that you teach a pre shot routine.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I think, you know, depends on what your goal is.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
If you've got somebody that's you know, later on in life,
I think that they've played golf for a long time,
and you know, if you want to get to a
certain level in golf playing very well and you start
out young, I think it's good to start with a
pre shat routine.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Of the players that are at the country club that
you're at, do you think people mostly go to the
range play, go to the range play? Or are there
people you see a significant number, a noticeable number of
people who go to the range go home? I mean
they just come there just to be working on the
range or is it always just a warm up to
get out there.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Well, the mornings, that's when you see people just coming
up to warm up and hit balls to go play.
It's the afternoon that you see people will come out
just to practice and camp out over that basket of
golf balls. That doesn't usually happen in the morning. So
there's two different you know, two different times of the
day when I see people out on the range in
(24:43):
the afternoon, they're out there practicing and they're there for
a purpose. When I see people in the morning, they're
just loosening up to go play. Now, there might be
some that are working on something specific, but for the
most part, they're just getting warmed up for the day.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
When we talked about on the preshot routine, the word
that comes up a lot in mechanics and things is tempo.
But the pre shot routine has its own tempo, right,
has its own rhythm. I guess this is a rhythm
versus a tempo, and getting into a solid rhythm, a
solid tempo all the way across can really help.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Well.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, and I think everybody has.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I I'll watch somebody's golf swing and how they are,
and I'll and I'll actually be able to tell whether
they're a type, a personality or something like that. And
I think that if you are, if that blood rushes
through your veins very quickly, that's not really conducive to
a very smooth tempo in your golf swing. It's going
to be very aggressive and very hard, and your pre
(25:48):
shot might be might be quick if you probably don't
even have a pre shot because you can't wait to
get to hit the ball. Those are the people that
I think would be would benefit from developing some sort
of a pre shot routine to slow them down to
take the deep breath. They need it more than anybody.
Other people are very relaxed and their swing you can
(26:08):
see with their swing tempo that they're kind of a
late back person and the blood runs through their veins
kind of slowly, if you know what I mean. But
I think the pre shot to routine's more important for
some than others.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Well, it helps, It definitely does help. So one of
the things that you know, I've been doing the show now,
I'm in the ninth year of doing it, and I
talk to a lot of people, and I've really developed
a very strong I feel like I've developed a strong
mental game and I understand corese strategy, which has really
(26:45):
helped my game lately. But one of the things that
I haven't done a lot of over these years is
take lessons. And you give me a lesson recently, I
can't let me publicly thank you because I can't believe
what a change my game has had in the last
two months. I mean, the day after we had this lesson.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Your mind was spending when we had that lesson, because it.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Well, I said, I mentioned to you we were doing
something else was going on, and I mentioned, I said,
I'm really playing the best golf of my life right now,
but I'm struggling with my long irons. I'm either chunking
the ball or hitting it way right. And he said,
come on, let me take a look. And within four
or five swings you saw exactly what was going on.
(27:31):
And I've been developed that. And so the day after
this lesson, we spent an hour together. I went out
on the course and I probably lost ten balls and
shot in the high nineties. And I hadn't shot in
the nineties in a while. I've been playing consistently in
the eighties, which was great, and the next five rounds
I couldn't break ninety. I was really struggling. And then
(27:53):
it clicked. Something happened. And this last month, the month
of June, we've had great weather. I've played six times,
which is a tremendous amount of golf for me, and
I had one round at eighty nine, one at eighty five,
and everything below that. And this week I played, of
course San Geronimo, which I don't think I've ever had
(28:13):
lower than an eighty nine in that course, and I
shot an eighty.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Good for you, so thank.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You' notly you worked hard at it.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
All I did was the range.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I've never gone to the range just to hit balls
real since that. But I understood what you were having
me do. So when I see the ballflight not doing
what I was hoping it, I.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Now I now know why you need to leave in
knowing the why. You absolutely need to know if your
ball's curving or moving in a certain direction, you've got
to know why it's doing that and what it's going
to take you physically or mentally to make it change.
And a lot of people they don't know that, and
then they try. I always say, people tend to reach
(28:58):
down in the grab bag and let me try this,
let me try that, and very often it's not even
close to what they should be doing or changing. So
I always believe that if if you want to improve yourself,
you need to go to your instructor and find out
why is my ball going to the right mechanically, the law,
the ball flight laws, whatever it is, and when it
(29:21):
does that, what do I need to do to fix
it on the next shot, or at least minimize it.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And there's a lot of people that don't know that.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, there's so many people on the golf course that
just continue to do the same thing over and over
and can't.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Figure they they play their mistakes or their faults. If
they keep slicing it, they just aim farther left and
they play their game.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah. Yeah, they make the adjustments. And there's some people
that have a quality game with all these flaws, but
they've learned how to work it. So you just kind
of step back and keep your mouth shut and going yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
And they're so used to playing their game that when
you do make a change, like if you know the
lesson we gave you, it can be very difficult to
make that change because they feel like, hey, I'm playing
okay the way I am. But when you make a change,
invariably or very often, you can go backwards first.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, oh yeah, Well look at the tour. I mean,
how many names can we give you guys who made
swing changes and disappeared for a while. Yeah, hopefully they
come back. Very few have ye, not all do, that's correct,
and yeah, and then they just disappear and it's kind
of scary. But one of the things that I also
learned from you, and I think that gets missed is
(30:30):
we were talking about when you're on the range, hitting
the ball, hitting the ball. Hitting the ball is the goal.
Really hitting the ball or hitting through the ball is
the full swing. Ball is only the middle part of
the full swing.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I gave a lesson this morning and
that was one of the things we talked about. This
person was hitting at the ball. So you do things
to have them swing. It's not just the clubhead. To me,
it's their hands. Very often when they're swinging, their hands
are stopping at the ball, and that snaps that clubhead ahead.
You'll hit behind the ball. You can hook the ball.
(31:01):
There's many unfortunate things that can happen when your handstop.
So I want somebody to take their hands as they
follow through or as they hitting the ball, and to
swing their hands out to the target so that ensures
that their hands stay forward. We don't want to hit
at the ball, like you said, you want to hit
through the ball. So you try to think of either
hitting through the ball swinging your hands to the target.
(31:21):
I like to have people pick a spot beyond the ball,
maybe an inch or two beyond, and try to hit
the ground or see their club go through the grass.
Beyond the ball. It can help a tremendous amount in
short game and long to actually see your club go
through the grass pass the ball. And I've also used
this opposite effect when you see people want to get
(31:43):
the ball in the air. Okay, So what they do
is they try to flip their hands, they stay behind
the ball, they fall away, And I've told people, I
want you to hit this ball as low as possible,
drill it five feet off the ground, and they've made
perfect golf shots that go exact exactly the height they're
supposed to, and they hit them crisply. When somebody tries
(32:04):
to hit the ball low, they instinctively know, okay, I've
got to delf the club. I got to get my
hands forward and try to hit this ball low and
get my way.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
To the left. That's how you hit a golf ball.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
I mean you want to accentuate that even further in
some cases and move the ball back in your stance.
And so I had to hit the ball low. But
when you tell somebody who's been flipping their hands and
falling away to try to hit it low, I can't
tell you how many times it's actually had somebody hit
the ball properly, and so even come out of a bunker.
I'll say, every time you hit a bunker shot, I
want you to try to hit it purposely.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Into the bank.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And now this doesn't apply to everybody, but to me,
it applies for those that are hanging back or flipping
and hitting behind the ball and then their club is
rising before it even gets to the golf ball. Those
are the people I want to try to hit it
into the bank and follow through and that ball comes
out every time.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, there was this last round and there was a
couple of shots I had that were and I realized
when I started thinking about it, oh, my hands are
coming around to the left here, No wonder the ball
is doing what it's doing as opposed to going through
it and ending up facing the target.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, you know so.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And I think that one of the things that you
you didn't really touch on, but you talk about when
you talk to your teacher, and this is a big
one that I've just learned. You got to find the
right teacher. I've worked with a lot of people, I've
talked to hundreds of coaches, but finding somebody who is
articulate enough and has you can understand what you're doing
(33:40):
and can communicate that with you in a way that
you're not getting defensive or confused. And I would suggest,
so find a teacher that you can work.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, there's some better than others, but clearly there's somebody
for everybody. And I think that you know, you can
be a very good instructor and just not communicate the
way that fits them.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
And I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Whether it be a doctor or an instructor or whatever
it is, Uh, you need to find somebody that you
understand and they communicate how you know, how you need
them to communicate.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
And that you trust, and I means you build that
trust and because of it, right now, like I said,
I'm playing with more confidence. Yeah, and it's really apparent.
That's like really at one point, I was standing behind
the ball. I was about to take a shot and
my eyes were closed and my friend like, I guess
I was closed for a while, and he goes, are
(34:33):
you all right? I'm like, yeah, I'm just trying to
visualize what it's this swing's going to look like?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I just want to because like I've had a couple
of bad swings in a row, and I just I
need to know what it's supposed to look like on
my body and visualized and went up and nailed it.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
So good for you.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So thank you. You're welcome publicly. Thank you. I appreciate
I'm having so much fun. So now my goal is
to try to have and I've only done the three
times this year, but try to get so I more
rounds in the seventies than in the nineties.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
That good for you.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
And I'll tell you going back to the instructor, for
all of you out there, you need to find somebody
that you believe what they're saying. And I asked this
question sometimes after a lesson, are you drinking the kool aid?
And for those of us old enough to know what
that means, it just means do you believe?
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Terrible situation, but it's do you believe in what I'm saying,
because if you don't, you're not going to change. You're
not going to make this change that we need to.
And so if you're not believing in that change, well
then you need to find somebody else, or at least
get that person to communicate it differently to see if
you do understand and believe.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Well, that was something else that happened to me those
first four or five rounds where I just was not
doing anything right. But I was committed to making it
work because I understood what you were trying to accomplish.
And there were so many moments where I was going,
you know what, I'm just going back to what I
was doing before, I'm not to do this, but I
stopped myself and I made right exactly exactly, And then
(36:04):
they don't like the teacher, and it's really.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
It's their comfort zone. Well, change is difficult. It just is.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Sometimes you can go to somebody and and say something
and it it's a quick change and they tend to
get it and move on. But then there's others that
you know, the change is difficult to make and it's
a commitment and it's very difficult. It's much easier to
go back to your own swing, even if you know
you're going to have those poor outcomes sometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well, I want to thank you once again for making
time to be able to come over and have a
conversation with me, because I really enjoy talking to you
about this and you you, You and I can go
on for a long time and hopefully we'll get these
opportunities do so again. Thanks so much for coming.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Back my pleasure. Thank you so much,
Golf Smarter number four hundred and forty three, originally published
on July first, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction never gets old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
It's not just the clubhead to me, it's their hands.
Very often when they're swinging, their hands are stopping at
the ball, and that snaps that clubhead ahead. You'll hit
behind the ball, that you can hook the ball. There's
many unfortunate things that can happen on your handstop. So
I want somebody to take their hands as they're hitting
the ball and to swing their hands out to the
target so that ensures that their hands stay forward. We
don't want to hit at the ball, like you said,
(00:50):
you want to hit through the ball. So you try
to think of either hitting through the ball swinging your
hands to the target. I like to have people pick
a spot beyond the ball, maybe an inch or two beyond,
and try to hit the ground or see their club
go through the grass beyond the ball. It can help
a tremendous amount in short game and long to actually
see your club go through the grass pass the ball.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
And I've also used this opposite effect.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
People want to get the ball in the air, so
what they do is they try to flip their hands,
they stay behind the ball, they fall away. I've told people,
I want you to hit this ball as low as possible,
drill it five feet off the ground, and they've made
perfect golf shots that go exactly the height they're supposed to,
and they hit them crisply. When somebody tries to hit
the ball low, they instinctively know, Okay, I've got to
(01:33):
del off the club. I got to get my hands
forward and try to hit this ball low and get
my way to the left.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
That's how you hit a golf ball.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
How to take your a game from the range to
the course With Ken Doherty.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
This is Golf Smarter.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Ken. Thank you,
it's great to have you back on the show. It's
great to have you back on the studio. I appreciate
also let people know you and I recently did a
video together that's on the golf Smarter YouTube page golf
Smarter TV. And even though we did it for Marine
Country Club, I think everybody should be aware of this
(02:15):
because we did it on course care and little things
that you should know, and most importantly to me, how
to clean up your divots on the green.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, what we did applies to every golf course, every
single golf course.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Absolutely. I mean I now since I feel like, okay,
this is how you put a rake back in the bunker.
You know, some people just throw them there, they're in
the bunker, they're sitting on the side. No, we put
it down with the handle sticking out.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, there are different rules when it comes to that
for different clubs. Some like them in, some like them out.
So some like the head in with a handle out.
That's how we do it, but there are different rules
for there. But as far as fixing a ball mark
and raking the bunker and things like that, they're pretty standard.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And I still go back to my number one rule
that everyone should be following, which is spend more time
cleaning up divots on the green than looking for lost balls.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah if only, Yeah, okay, I guess so.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
But today I wanted to talk about taking your a game.
How do we take our a game from the driving
range to the golf course? And you and I were
having a conversation about this once and you mentioned that
it's a very different type of golf on the range
because of the balls, your mindset, things like that, and
(03:37):
I thought it was worth pursuing because there's some tidbits
in there that someone's gonna be able to walk away
with going, Okay, I'm going to be a better player
because of that.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
I don't even know where to begin. I mean, there's
so many variables when it comes to all right, let
me let me throw one out on the range. The balls, yeah,
well let's start with that. In most cases, they're very different.
They're not the quality of the golf ball you use
on the on the golf course. In fact, we took
our yardage markers away because we have limited flight golf
ballsk because we have a little shorter range, and we
(04:07):
don't feel that are if they hit range ball, If
they hit a range ball one hundred and fifty yards,
a good golf ball or one that you take to
the golf course will go further. So it's really not
a good indication of how far they're hitting the golf ball.
So I don't want I don't want that, for lack
of a better phrase, that false advertisement. I don't want
them thinking they're hitting at one hundred and fifty yards.
(04:29):
They go to the golf course, take that eight iron
or seven iron, and now they're hitting at one hundred
and sixty hundred and sixty five yards, don't I don't
think the range should be used for yardage anyways. I
think that should be used for hitting the ball straight
and working the ball and working some of those kinks.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Out well, I would tend to I don't know if
I'm gonna disagree with you on this, but where are
you going to learn how far you hit each club?
It's really hard to do on the golf course because
you need to know. It's one of the things that
I'm having with my right now is like he's really
complaining he's not very good, and I said, well, learn
how far you hit each club? You don't know. You're
(05:07):
asking me if I had a five iron here. I
don't know how far do you hit a five iron?
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Yeah, I think you can do some of that on
the range, but to be exact and know exactly how
you hit it. I will tell somebody to go out
in the late evening when nobody's around, and if you're
not quite sure how far your clubs go, or how
far your seven iron goes, or whatever the club you're
you're looking to find out, take three or four golf
balls from certain distances and hit them to the green
(05:34):
using you know, your GPS or whatever device you have
to see how far. And then you'll know for sure
because it's on the golf course, it's actual yardage, it's
the real ball, and so on.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
That's fine for country clubs.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, you're right, you're right. It's not an easy task.
You're right.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
No, So is there a way? Well, should we basically
assume that every course is using low compression golf balls
on the range? Not necessarily, So how do we find
so we need to find that out before we even
start hitting balls from them.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Well, it's not just low compression. I don't think a
lot of people use the the limited flight golf.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Balls as we do.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I meant limited flight.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
But there's also range ball differences from from your average
golf balls. Some some country clubs use brand new titleists
or brand new callaways for their range balls. They might
have a stripe around them, but they're actual golf balls.
To me, that's realistic. But how many of those practice
on the Yeah, if they say practice, you know they're
(06:33):
they're they're not the quality of a golf ball you're
gonna be playing on the golf course.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So how are we able to compute that? When we're like, Okay, good,
I'm hitting these limited range, limited flight balls. I'm hitting
at one hundred and fifty yards with my six iron.
How do I say, okay, So that means with my
pro V one X, my pro V one, my Dixon
(07:00):
Earth Dixon wind ball, how much more is that gonna fly?
How do we figure that out?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
How do we I don't think you can do it exactly.
And let's just say you've got a bucket of brand
new range balls. Well, then you can have some idea,
maybe calculate ten percent or whatever.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
You're not going to get exact.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
But the problem with with with most ranges is you've
got some old golf balls, you've got some new golf balls.
They're not going to fly the same. I've hit two
shots that I thought that were the same. One falls
out of the sky and the other one sails. That's
too inconsistent for me to to be concerned about how
far that ball's going.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
It's a real tough one because that's the first place
in the uh in the golf course where you definitely
see a difference. Like I was hitting that one a
you know, like all day long, I can hit it,
so I know that for me, what I'll what I'll
tend to do is with a bucket that has mixed
balls of old and new, and you eats pretty obvious
(07:59):
which they are a lot older and which ones are
a lot newer, just by the shining, because they don't
really clean them that well, just get the dirt off
of it. But if it's if it's a beat up ball,
I'll use that for my short game. I'll just use
that to work on my stroke for the pitching and
the chipping, which I do a lot of. Like I
have one driving range over here Indian Valley that it's
a line of mats, and what I do is just
(08:23):
hit over the mat. It's like, Okay, I want to
hit that mat. Now, I want to hit that because
there's no one else there. I want to hit the
third mat. Now, I want to hit the fourth mat,
you know, and see if I can get it to
bounce on each mat from thing to think. So I
take you a much.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Better way to practice, actually because you want to You
want to practice how far you hit the golf ball.
There's a lot of people that are they look at
the flag stick, and then there's others that are very
good at chipping and pitching and they pick at location
to land the ball. And picking a location to land
the ball and having a lamb. There is very important.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Target oriented golf. So let let's talk about that. Okay, Well,
I'm glad that I'm doing something right. The thing that's
hard to figure out then is how long is it
going to roll? You know, depending on But when we
talked to Dave Stockton a while ago, he said that
it's for him, it's all about is it a low
shot or is it a high shot?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
And that's how I describe them as well. If I'm
teaching that, you know, people get confused with different shots
and chip pitch, whatever you call them. It's a high
ball or a low ball, and you know, the low
ball is the one you want to hit as much
as you can, and the green's going to tell you
or the surrounding area is going to tell you whether
you need to hit a high ball, and I think
you should be hitting the high ball only when forced.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Two.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You're a big proponent of keeping the ball on the
ground as long as possible.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Not only do I believe people are
more consistent that way, but they eliminate disaster too. You
take a bigger swing and try to hit it up
in the air and you miss it slightly, and you
could hit it right over the green or put the
club in the ground and leave it right in front
of you, where if you try to hit it low
it's more of a short putting type of stroke, or
certainly below the waist, your inconsistency is much less, and
(10:02):
obviously you can almost eliminate the disastrous shot.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, And I've definitely taken to that idea and really
worked on do I need to hit a high shot
or a low shot here? Okay, there's a you know,
there's a sprinkler head there if I just need to
get over that, all right, So I'm gonna have to
go a little higher, obviously, but I just want to
get over it, or there's a bunker in the way,
or the pin is close to the side of the
(10:28):
green I'm on. Obviously, you don't want the ball to
roll a lot. You want to just kind of let
it land softly and stop.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
There are some people that are one club chip pitchers
and they use just their sandwedge or whatever it is, and.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
If they're good at it, God bless them. Good good.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But if you know, if you are struggling or you
occasionally miss one pretty badly, you probably shouldn't be using
that unless you're forced to.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Actually, there's a video that I put on our members
site from Tony Manzoni a great tip about keeping it
on the ground that when you're on the fringe or
just off the fringe on the green. He has this
tip and I've been using it and I cannot believe
how close I've been getting to the pin with these.
I take the eight iron and I use it like
(11:13):
a putter, but I stand it on the toe.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, toe down, absolutely, and just use.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
A putting motion.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Now.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Absolutely, people are like, how'd you do that? It's like,
it's not that hard. And what's funny to watch when
I show people when I learned with this is putting
it on the toe. It makes them very uncomfortable. Yeah,
people do not like to do that. Yeah, my friends
don't at least.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
I saw somebody using that method thirty years ago and
he was very consistent with it. Now, it's not one
where you want to you're going to hit it a
long chip. I think that most of the time you're
going to use that method, you're fairly close because the
ball doesn't come off hot. It comes off kind of dead,
which is kind of nice. The ball doesn't get away
from you.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, and it feels like a putter roll. Yeah, once
it gets going. And I've never done it where the
ball was in the air. And when I say in
the air about six inches off the ground, I've never
done it where the ball is in the air from
more than four maybe.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Five feet exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And I have a friend who likes to use his
hybrid to do that and just get over.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
But that ball, that's perfect. When you're immediately around the green,
around that fringe area, right.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
The ball explodes off the face of the hybrid.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Well, that's true.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I mean it's a very different stroke than a putting
stroke at that point because it just it goes really
fast and I'm really good at going in other directions.
So back to the driving range and the difference between.
All right, so we started with balls, so there's really
no way of knowing you know, what kind of balls
they use. You can ask, but you're really not going
to be able to send. So you're just saying, and
(12:45):
even the older balls in these buckets that have lost
a lot of the dimples that are worn out, are
you going to be able to tell if you you're
hitting the ball straight that day?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
I mean, it's going to be less curvature with a
ball that doesn't have any dimples. So it's you know,
I a lot of times ago it depends on the
golf balls. But if they're not very good to me,
that's just stretching an exercise more than practice.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So work on your short game with those bat absolutely, yeah, okay,
all right, so just no way to know. So and
I'm surprised that you took away the yardage things. I would.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Well think about it.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
If I've got range balls that are fifteen anywhere from
ten to fifteen percent less plus, we're hitting a little uphill.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Right, you're hitting up hills.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
You've got somebody who normally hits a seven iron, and
I'll just throw a figure out there. One hundred and
forty five yards and now they're hitting it one hundred
and thirty five yards and coming to me wondering, you know,
or they're misjudging when they're going to the golf course
and vice versa. It's just it's not a good representation
of what they're actually doing. So I don't want to
give them any false advertisement and believe it or not.
(13:54):
I you know, out of five hundred golfers over there,
well more than that, five hundred memberships and eight or
nine hundred golfers, I had two people ask me about
where they were.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
No one else, really, two people.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's it really, So it's not that big of an issue. Now,
what is the issue that comes back to you? What
are the members come back to you with this? I'm
having an issue with the driving range.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Well, it's what we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Is I hit the ball great on the driving range,
but I can't take it to the golf course.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
All right, Well, before we get there, how about the
difference between hitting off of mats versus hitting off of grass.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Mats are very forgiving, and again it's not a true
test of compression, and where you're hitting on the ground,
you can hit behind the ball on a mat and
get away with it right.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
You can hit the ground first exactly and you're going
to get a good stroke off against Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah again, I much prefer as most players probably prefer
to be off the grass because there's a true test
versus the mats, that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
And some mats are very different. I mean, you guys
have really nice cushiony mats that I mean they don't
even the bottom of the bottom of your clubs don't
turn green on those.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Well yeah, yeah, And I'll tell you what, if you
want to give a lesson and have it be successful,
put them on the mats.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh that was it. We'll get to the lesson in
a minute, all right. So let's let's see how we
can take our a game from the course, from the
from the range to the course. How do we take
our a game when we just leaving the range going oh,
I feel great today, and then it just doesn't pan out.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Well. Most people that hit driving range balls don't have
a care in the world. They're free, they let it fly,
there's no penalty, there's no score. They've got a whole
bucket of golf balls to hit, and they swing freely,
and I mean mind. And when you go to the
golf course, that's a very different scenario there. It's one ball,
(16:05):
one hole, one score, and so on. So we tend
to get a little bit tighter, we tend to steer
a little bit course. On the golf course. Our mind
is cluttered with information, mechanics and so on, and that
is not conducive to hitting a good golf ball or
playing good golf. You've got to be able to go
(16:28):
to the golf course and be free. I'm sure there's
some of you with either played a golf course that
is wide open and you can just swing for the fences,
and those are the days that you hit it really good.
And then there's a golf course that you play very
tight and you don't swing the same. You try to
steer it or you get a little afraid to let
(16:48):
it go, and you won't hit it as good. And
you need to be able to go to that tight
golf course or that tight hole and be loose and
let it fly. And that's a tough thing to do.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Would you recommend if you feel that tension, if you
know well, you know the other thing at the driving
range is that you have multiple swings. I mean, you know,
it's like, Okay, I just took three swings and one
of them was worked. I'm ready to go.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, you know it's like get three in a row.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
You don't get a second serve, do you know?
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You know I'm a second swing all American is what
we will.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Well, you can go back, we can go right into
how many times do you take a second put or
second swing and you hit it very well. That's because
it doesn't mean anything, So you're relaxed and you let
it fly, and that should give you some information about
what you should do. On the first one, we do
get too tense and swing too tightly and steer it,
and we're much freer on the second one when it
(17:45):
doesn't matter. And I've told people it seems kind of strange,
but you don't play well because you care too much.
If you didn't care, you would play well better.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And it's is that, like people say, play like a
little kid.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Yeah. Absolutely. When you're young, you're fearless and you let
it fly. And when we're old, our mind moves a
lot more, and different experiences make us think differently as
we go on, and it makes a big difference.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Well, a couple of shows back Jim Waldron of Balance
Point Golf School, and I hate to be name dropping,
but this is my show, so I will. But Jim
talked about on putting and this was a huge one
for me. He says, the keys to putting are confidence
and positive indifference. And I think that's basically what you're saying,
(18:33):
the positive indifference.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Like Okay, I'm good, that's interesting, and if.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
It doesn't go in, I'm okay, Yeah, I'll let it go,
you know, just pull back and let it's okay and
stop overthinking it and worrying about something.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
But life for life for death on the golf course
and it's not at the range around the putting green.
It makes a big difference. Tension and what our minds
go through makes a big difference. And there's a whole
different mindset on that golf course than there is at
the rain in practicing.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Stop playing for money.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Or be able to put your mind in the right
place while you're playing for money.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, you know, so you're saying, there's so much. It's
such a mental element there is.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
And there was a gentleman that came about a year
ago at our club and he had a laptop computer,
and he hooked me and another member up to this
device where he put something on our head and it
measured electrodes and all this stuff. And this program he
had made a certain sound when you were thinking too much,
(19:35):
when you were swinging the club, and it was a
it was a tone, a long tone, and then it
would change to a different tone if your mind was clear.
And the member got it and it had the tone
that was you could tell he was thinking a lot
swinging the whole bit, and he had a very hard time,
took a long time to get out of that tone
and to clear his mind. And I was able to
(19:57):
do it pretty quickly. And the reason why is because
I don't think of mechanics when I play golf.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I pick a target. So I was on the range.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I picked home at the end of the range, a
specific window, and I looked at it, studied it, and
I swung at it.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
So my mind was free. It was clear.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
And you know, there's many ways of you know, there's
books out there and so on, but this actually measured
something in your head that had your mind scrambled over
mechanics or it was clear and let you be free.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
And I believe in that.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I really do that if you are too cluttered with
mechanics and stress and so on, and all the thoughts
are at the front of your mind, I think you're
going to struggle.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Then let's talk about the pre shot routine and how
that can help you clear your mind.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yes, well, pre shot routines are very good because it's familiarity.
So when you're familiar with your surroundings, you have more confidence.
So that's one of the reasons why good players always
have a.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
Pre shot routine.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
So if it's in the masters or hitting range balls,
they have a familiarity with every single movement. A lot
of the average golfers don't do that. They don't have
the same movements every time. Uh, so there's less familiarity.
So preshot routines I think are very important because it's
a set arrangement and they do not deviate no matter
(21:18):
the golf course, right or situation.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Right. A lot of the a lot of the range
activity is a lot of sweep and swing and sweep
and swing and sweep and swing.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Right, we become machine guns. Yeah right, Yeah, there's no
there's not much quality there. It's more what do you
learn from that.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I mean, how what where's the takeaway on that that
you're feeling looser, that you've gotten your swings in and
you're ready to go.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
It's exercise, that's you know, that to me is what
it is mostly. And you go back to what Jack
Jack Nicholas said he never hit a shot even on
the range that he didn't make countract a purpose absolutely
every single swing. I don't know many people that do that, Yeah,
including yours, true, you know, I you know, I get
up and just start swinging before you know, you go,
whoa slow down, you know, think about this walk away,
(22:07):
you know.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah. Yeah. I've also noticed for myself, I've been struggling
with three putts lately, and the third putt being inside
of five feet and that just kills me that I'm
that I'm doing that. But I've recognized that that's because
I walk up to it go yeah, I got it,
and I just like, if I go it's a good. No,
it's not good, but you know you got to put
(22:27):
it all right, fine, so I'll just go ahead. And
of course I missed, you know, a half inch to
the right, but I've gone back to Okay, I'm gonna
do my even on this short one, I'm going to
do my pre shot routine. And I had twenty eight
putts the other day.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
Yeah, you know dif versus thirty eight. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
And when you struggle in an area like you might
struggle in those short puts, we tend to get more tense,
but we tend to rush them too.
Speaker 4 (22:49):
Right things get them over quickly.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
So by you doing going into your pre shot routine
and taking that deep breath and taking your time, I'll
guarantee it helped.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
And tell me about your pre shot routine. Walk us
through it.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Boy, that's why I stink. I don't I don't you know.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I probably have a pre shot routine, but I don't
think about it. It's not conscious. I probably do the
same thing every single time.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
But do you teach a pre shot routine?
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Depends on who it is. It depends on who it is.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
If I see somebody who's in a big hurry, I
will start to tell them, Okay, I want you to go.
I want you to back away from the ball. I
want you to look at your target. I want you
to step into it and try to develop that pre
shot routine. But most lessons, no, I don't know of
many lessons that are that you teach a pre shot routine.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I think, you know, depends on what your goal is.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
If you've got somebody that's you know, later on in life,
I think that they've played golf for a long time,
and you know, if you want to get to a
certain level in golf playing very well and you start
out young, I think it's good to start with a
pre shat routine.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Of the players that are at the country club that
you're at, do you think people mostly go to the
range play, go to the range play? Or are there
people you see a significant number, a noticeable number of
people who go to the range go home? I mean
they just come there just to be working on the
range or is it always just a warm up to
get out there.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
Well, the mornings, that's when you see people just coming
up to warm up and hit balls to go play.
It's the afternoon that you see people will come out
just to practice and camp out over that basket of
golf balls. That doesn't usually happen in the morning. So
there's two different you know, two different times of the
day when I see people out on the range in
(24:43):
the afternoon, they're out there practicing and they're there for
a purpose. When I see people in the morning, they're
just loosening up to go play. Now, there might be
some that are working on something specific, but for the
most part, they're just getting warmed up for the day.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
When we talked about on the preshot routine, the word
that comes up a lot in mechanics and things is tempo.
But the pre shot routine has its own tempo, right,
has its own rhythm. I guess this is a rhythm
versus a tempo, and getting into a solid rhythm, a
solid tempo all the way across can really help.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Well.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah, and I think everybody has.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
I I'll watch somebody's golf swing and how they are,
and I'll and I'll actually be able to tell whether
they're a type, a personality or something like that. And
I think that if you are, if that blood rushes
through your veins very quickly, that's not really conducive to
a very smooth tempo in your golf swing. It's going
to be very aggressive and very hard, and your pre
(25:48):
shot might be might be quick if you probably don't
even have a pre shot because you can't wait to
get to hit the ball. Those are the people that
I think would be would benefit from developing some sort
of a pre shot routine to slow them down to
take the deep breath. They need it more than anybody.
Other people are very relaxed and their swing you can
(26:08):
see with their swing tempo that they're kind of a
late back person and the blood runs through their veins
kind of slowly, if you know what I mean. But
I think the pre shot to routine's more important for
some than others.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Well, it helps, It definitely does help. So one of
the things that you know, I've been doing the show now,
I'm in the ninth year of doing it, and I
talk to a lot of people, and I've really developed
a very strong I feel like I've developed a strong
mental game and I understand corese strategy, which has really
(26:45):
helped my game lately. But one of the things that
I haven't done a lot of over these years is
take lessons. And you give me a lesson recently, I
can't let me publicly thank you because I can't believe
what a change my game has had in the last
two months. I mean, the day after we had this lesson.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
Your mind was spending when we had that lesson, because it.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Well, I said, I mentioned to you we were doing
something else was going on, and I mentioned, I said,
I'm really playing the best golf of my life right now,
but I'm struggling with my long irons. I'm either chunking
the ball or hitting it way right. And he said,
come on, let me take a look. And within four
or five swings you saw exactly what was going on.
(27:31):
And I've been developed that. And so the day after
this lesson, we spent an hour together. I went out
on the course and I probably lost ten balls and
shot in the high nineties. And I hadn't shot in
the nineties in a while. I've been playing consistently in
the eighties, which was great, and the next five rounds
I couldn't break ninety. I was really struggling. And then
(27:53):
it clicked. Something happened. And this last month, the month
of June, we've had great weather. I've played six times,
which is a tremendous amount of golf for me, and
I had one round at eighty nine, one at eighty five,
and everything below that. And this week I played, of
course San Geronimo, which I don't think I've ever had
(28:13):
lower than an eighty nine in that course, and I
shot an eighty.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Good for you, so thank.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
You' notly you worked hard at it.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
All I did was the range.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
I've never gone to the range just to hit balls
real since that. But I understood what you were having
me do. So when I see the ballflight not doing
what I was hoping it, I.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Now I now know why you need to leave in
knowing the why. You absolutely need to know if your
ball's curving or moving in a certain direction, you've got
to know why it's doing that and what it's going
to take you physically or mentally to make it change.
And a lot of people they don't know that, and
then they try. I always say, people tend to reach
(28:58):
down in the grab bag and let me try this,
let me try that, and very often it's not even
close to what they should be doing or changing. So
I always believe that if if you want to improve yourself,
you need to go to your instructor and find out
why is my ball going to the right mechanically, the law,
the ball flight laws, whatever it is, and when it
(29:21):
does that, what do I need to do to fix
it on the next shot, or at least minimize it.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And there's a lot of people that don't know that.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, there's so many people on the golf course that
just continue to do the same thing over and over
and can't.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Figure they they play their mistakes or their faults. If
they keep slicing it, they just aim farther left and
they play their game.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah. Yeah, they make the adjustments. And there's some people
that have a quality game with all these flaws, but
they've learned how to work it. So you just kind
of step back and keep your mouth shut and going yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
And they're so used to playing their game that when
you do make a change, like if you know the
lesson we gave you, it can be very difficult to
make that change because they feel like, hey, I'm playing
okay the way I am. But when you make a change,
invariably or very often, you can go backwards first.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, oh yeah, Well look at the tour. I mean,
how many names can we give you guys who made
swing changes and disappeared for a while. Yeah, hopefully they
come back. Very few have ye, not all do, that's correct,
and yeah, and then they just disappear and it's kind
of scary. But one of the things that I also
learned from you, and I think that gets missed is
(30:30):
we were talking about when you're on the range, hitting
the ball, hitting the ball. Hitting the ball is the goal.
Really hitting the ball or hitting through the ball is
the full swing. Ball is only the middle part of
the full swing.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I gave a lesson this morning and
that was one of the things we talked about. This
person was hitting at the ball. So you do things
to have them swing. It's not just the clubhead. To me,
it's their hands. Very often when they're swinging, their hands
are stopping at the ball, and that snaps that clubhead ahead.
You'll hit behind the ball. You can hook the ball.
(31:01):
There's many unfortunate things that can happen when your handstop.
So I want somebody to take their hands as they
follow through or as they hitting the ball, and to
swing their hands out to the target so that ensures
that their hands stay forward. We don't want to hit
at the ball, like you said, you want to hit
through the ball. So you try to think of either
hitting through the ball swinging your hands to the target.
(31:21):
I like to have people pick a spot beyond the ball,
maybe an inch or two beyond, and try to hit
the ground or see their club go through the grass.
Beyond the ball. It can help a tremendous amount in
short game and long to actually see your club go
through the grass pass the ball. And I've also used
this opposite effect when you see people want to get
(31:43):
the ball in the air. Okay, So what they do
is they try to flip their hands, they stay behind
the ball, they fall away, And I've told people, I
want you to hit this ball as low as possible,
drill it five feet off the ground, and they've made
perfect golf shots that go exact exactly the height they're
supposed to, and they hit them crisply. When somebody tries
(32:04):
to hit the ball low, they instinctively know, okay, I've
got to delf the club. I got to get my
hands forward and try to hit this ball low and
get my way.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
To the left. That's how you hit a golf ball.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
I mean you want to accentuate that even further in
some cases and move the ball back in your stance.
And so I had to hit the ball low. But
when you tell somebody who's been flipping their hands and
falling away to try to hit it low, I can't
tell you how many times it's actually had somebody hit
the ball properly, and so even come out of a bunker.
I'll say, every time you hit a bunker shot, I
want you to try to hit it purposely.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Into the bank.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
And now this doesn't apply to everybody, but to me,
it applies for those that are hanging back or flipping
and hitting behind the ball and then their club is
rising before it even gets to the golf ball. Those
are the people I want to try to hit it
into the bank and follow through and that ball comes
out every time.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, there was this last round and there was a
couple of shots I had that were and I realized
when I started thinking about it, oh, my hands are
coming around to the left here, No wonder the ball
is doing what it's doing as opposed to going through
it and ending up facing the target.
Speaker 4 (33:16):
Yeah, you know so.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And I think that one of the things that you
you didn't really touch on, but you talk about when
you talk to your teacher, and this is a big
one that I've just learned. You got to find the
right teacher. I've worked with a lot of people, I've
talked to hundreds of coaches, but finding somebody who is
articulate enough and has you can understand what you're doing
(33:40):
and can communicate that with you in a way that
you're not getting defensive or confused. And I would suggest,
so find a teacher that you can work.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Well, there's some better than others, but clearly there's somebody
for everybody. And I think that you know, you can
be a very good instructor and just not communicate the
way that fits them.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
And I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Whether it be a doctor or an instructor or whatever
it is, Uh, you need to find somebody that you
understand and they communicate how you know, how you need
them to communicate.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
And that you trust, and I means you build that
trust and because of it, right now, like I said,
I'm playing with more confidence. Yeah, and it's really apparent.
That's like really at one point, I was standing behind
the ball. I was about to take a shot and
my eyes were closed and my friend like, I guess
I was closed for a while, and he goes, are
(34:33):
you all right? I'm like, yeah, I'm just trying to
visualize what it's this swing's going to look like?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Good for you.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I just want to because like I've had a couple
of bad swings in a row, and I just I
need to know what it's supposed to look like on
my body and visualized and went up and nailed it.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
So good for you.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So thank you. You're welcome publicly. Thank you. I appreciate
I'm having so much fun. So now my goal is
to try to have and I've only done the three
times this year, but try to get so I more
rounds in the seventies than in the nineties.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
That good for you.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
And I'll tell you going back to the instructor, for
all of you out there, you need to find somebody
that you believe what they're saying. And I asked this
question sometimes after a lesson, are you drinking the kool aid?
And for those of us old enough to know what
that means, it just means do you believe?
Speaker 4 (35:21):
Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Terrible situation, but it's do you believe in what I'm saying,
because if you don't, you're not going to change. You're
not going to make this change that we need to.
And so if you're not believing in that change, well
then you need to find somebody else, or at least
get that person to communicate it differently to see if
you do understand and believe.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Well, that was something else that happened to me those
first four or five rounds where I just was not
doing anything right. But I was committed to making it
work because I understood what you were trying to accomplish.
And there were so many moments where I was going,
you know what, I'm just going back to what I
was doing before, I'm not to do this, but I
stopped myself and I made right exactly exactly, And then
(36:04):
they don't like the teacher, and it's really.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
It's their comfort zone. Well, change is difficult. It just is.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Sometimes you can go to somebody and and say something
and it it's a quick change and they tend to
get it and move on. But then there's others that
you know, the change is difficult to make and it's
a commitment and it's very difficult. It's much easier to
go back to your own swing, even if you know
you're going to have those poor outcomes sometimes.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Well, I want to thank you once again for making
time to be able to come over and have a
conversation with me, because I really enjoy talking to you
about this and you you, You and I can go
on for a long time and hopefully we'll get these
opportunities do so again. Thanks so much for coming.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
Back my pleasure. Thank you so much,
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