July 4, 2025 • 31 mins
GS#392 July 9, 2013 Ken Doherty, Head Golf Pro at Marin Country Club discusses how your intent impacts mechanics. No matter the situation, as long as you focus on a target and are clear about your intent, then you stop thinking about mechanics which will free you to hit better shots.
Please check out this article about Fred's golf and podcast journey called "A Lifetime On The Air" that was published in the NCGA Magazine (Northern California Golf Association) recently! Get more when your visit the refreshed golfsmarter.com!
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This episode is brought to you by the Tour Striker Golf Academy. Visit tourstriker.com/TSGA and use the code GOLFSMARTER to get your first month of the Tour Striker GolfAcademy Online free, plus instant access to two bonus courses—'The Recipe for Better Golf' and 'Bombs: How to Consistently Smash the Driver”: a $194 value for free.
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This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply.
Please check out this article about Fred's golf and podcast journey called "A Lifetime On The Air" that was published in the NCGA Magazine (Northern California Golf Association) recently! Get more when your visit the refreshed golfsmarter.com!
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This episode is brought to you by the Tour Striker Golf Academy. Visit tourstriker.com/TSGA and use the code GOLFSMARTER to get your first month of the Tour Striker GolfAcademy Online free, plus instant access to two bonus courses—'The Recipe for Better Golf' and 'Bombs: How to Consistently Smash the Driver”: a $194 value for free.
This episode is brought to you by 5Hour Energy. 5-hour ENERGY Transfusion flavor is available online or in stores. Head to 5hourENERGY.com and order yours today!
Check out "Invested in the Game", a new original podcast from Charles Schwab. This podcast is their way of sharing the incredible stories behind the game. Listen now at schwab.com/TheGame or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is sponsored by Indeed. Please visit indeed.com/GOLFSMARTER and get a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT. Terms and conditions apply.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Golf Smarter number three hundred and ninety two, published on
July ninth, twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
If you're before kids in career or after kids in career,
you've got a chance to practice, and you have to
practice a lot. This isn't that bucket of balls before
you play. You need to go five six times a
week and hit plenty of golf balls. And I've got
one story about a guy I used to work with.
He was on the PGA Tour back in the sixties
and he was one of the best college players ever
(00:51):
at the time of him being on the tour. Ben
Hogan said that he was one of the best players
on the tour. He just didn't know it, which he
didn't know how to take it, whether as a compliment
or not. But anyways, he was switching his grip and
he was just making a little weaker so for him,
he was moving his right hand rotating it to the
left a little bit, and he asked Ben Hogan how
long it would take for it to be natural, and
Ben Hogan told him a year.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Your intent will impact ball striking success with Ken Doherty.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers
and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked
for your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Ken. Thank you,
it's good to have you back. I'm glad that you
guys are keeping very good care of this golf course.
I appreciate that gives me something to look at. I
don't have to criticize anything.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
That superintendent does a great job.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Your superintendent does a very good job. How big is
the staff his staff?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Superintendent, Yeah, I believe he's got a round fifteen working
for him.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Grounds crew. So because I noticed a a about eight o'clock,
seven thirty eight o'clock, there are machines running around and
there's three or four guys cleaning bunkers, and I got
to imagine they're not the only ones doing They must
be multiple groups simultaneous.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
That's right, And it depends on the day too. If
we're doing starting times off the first tea, they can
start at one and just go and stay ahead. But
if we have an event like we did this morning,
they've got to go off into different places to because
of the shotgun start that starts to day thirty. So
they get multiple groups that go to different holes and
go from.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
There, and they have to stay ahead of those groups.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
They got to stay ahead. And you know there's also
some areas like we have here in a residential area
where there's noise ordinance, so we have to stay away
from certain areas until seven am.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
All right, let's get some questions have come in from
various listeners, and I thought it would be fun to
talk to you about them. And the first one is
someone who's saying that they hit their woods really well,
but they can't hit irons at all. And I'm like,
iron play versus hybrids and woods. Why, I would think
that the driver is probably the hardest club to hit.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Not necessarily, I think the hardest clubs to hit are
probably the long irons or even the three wood off
the ground. Those are probably the most difficult clubs to hit.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Why.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Well, there's several factors for one. Sometimes somebody's swing type
or shape can determine whether they are better at irons
or better at woods. If you have a very descending
blow on your swing descending angle, well, irons might be
better for you. You might a wood needs to be
more of a shallow approach, a sweeping type swing. You
(03:38):
also have a hozzle that's on that iron, and you
can hit a golf ball on the heel of a
golf club and a wood you're going to be fine,
and an iron you're going to be in some trouble.
So you know, there's again there's different factors. I think
a lot of people. I think you only find that
the better golfers really descend into the ball the way
(04:00):
they should, So the higher the handicap, the better, or
I think they're happier they'll be with their woods because
you don't have to descend. It's more of a sweeping
People tend to jump up and look up and try
to lift the ball up. Well, you can kind of
get away with that with a wood, so I think
you know, when you tee it up with a driver,
it's funny. Some people have a more difficult time with
(04:22):
a driver because it's so long and it's so cumbersome
that they have a hard time getting through it and
they slice the ball where others the balls teed up.
So it is easier for them because there's they don't
worry about hitting the ground. They feel free to swing.
So it really depends on an individual and sometimes what
those individual flaws are in their swing it can determine it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
So you really need to develop different swings for your irons,
as you do have with you.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, and here's a perfect example. When I first started
started hitting at hybrid, I didn't hit it very well
and I kept one why And it wasn't until I
figured out that it was it was an iron. It
was more like an iron. You've got to hit this
on a descending blow that I you know, I moved
the ball back a little bit my stands to create
more of an iron type hit and my intent, which
(05:14):
I think is a very important thing in golf, is
your intent. My intent was to swing and hit down
on the ball instead of trimating and committing to my intent.
Once I did that, I've it's my favorite club in
the bag. I love hybrids because of that. Yeah, So
it's a I think a lot of times it's intent.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I've actually considered. Recently, I've been struggling with my five
iron because I have a hybrid for my four and
my three iron, so and I love them. Guess what's
coming and I'm I'm really considering getting rid of my
uh so right now I have driver three wood, two hybrids,
then five, six, seven.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Let me ask you a question before you go on.
Why do you have a three wood?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Do you like your three I love my three wood? Okay, so,
but here's the interesting point. So Jesse Ortiz of Bobby
Jones Golf, he was, I went down. It's about an
hour away, and hey where his shop is. And he
made me these clubs, and he said, I'm gonna I'm
gonna make this club for you, but based on your
(06:19):
numbers that you provided me once you got fitted, I'm
going to make it more like a four wood, but
you can tell everyone it's a three wood.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Good for him, And so he answered, you answered my question.
You don't really hit a three wood. Three woods are
very difficult to hit. And bye, by the makeup of
your set, I'm thinking if you like all those clubs,
there's gonna be a big difference between your three wood
and your hybrid. So there's got to be something in
the middle. So that forwood helps that it moves it
(06:47):
a little closer. So two things are going to happen.
You may not hit it as far as the three wood,
but I guarantee you're going to be more consistent. And
that's much more important.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And I'll tell you that I recently have put the
driver in the bag for the first four or five
holes because I'm so much more confident with my three
four wood four three wood, and and and it just
gives me more confidences that go on. And then as
I feel like I've got my swing and I know
where I'm going, I'll pull out the driver. Smart play,
(07:16):
thank you, but golf smarter. So but I don't you know, obviously,
on my driver, I'm going to tee it up very high.
And my and my my hybrid, my three four wood, okay,
give me crazy. On on the wood, you know, I'll
tee them up very low. Like if I'm going to
tee up.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Where's your driver go right, left, high, low? What's proba?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Well, if I start with it, it's gonna it's gonna
go right. Okay, it's gonna go right. Sometimes a nice
fade my ball has a tendency to fade to the right.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You're the instructor, I'm asking you. I've never given you
a lesson. Have you taken lessons? Well kind of yeah, yeah,
So you don't have that answer.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Why it goes to the right is because I I
don't know. I I think that it's because I'm going inside.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Out, outside in. You're most likely swinging to the left
of your target and your club face is open. So
now you got to.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Determine with my wrists breaking too, you.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Got to determine why you're not closing that club face
and why you're swinging what they call over the top
or you know, to the left of your target.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
The lessons that I've been working on recently, I'm just
learning how to roll my hands over for the impact.
That's like wow, And that's a hard one because then
I'm able to keep the right angle on the club
farther down and then make the roll.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Just remember this, tend to call me. Let's give you
a lesson intent anytime we have at our We have
a hitting bay at our facility with with video and
a flight scope which is a launch monitor and it's
radar base and it gives you all the details of
club face angle and and uh uh swing path and
ball speed, clubhead speed, you name it, spin rate. So
(09:04):
it's it's a great tool to have. But I can
tell you without even seeing in your swing, most slicers,
and I'm gonna put you in a general category, most
slicers turn rotate their chest too quickly through the ball,
and not their wrists and forearms, their hands and forearms.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, that's the other thing I've been working on is
my hip turn on the back swing.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Okay, and then.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Increasingly having one.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Okay, right, where do your shoulders aim at impact?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
At impact? Probably left? Yeah, it probably should that's right,
and that should be at They should be square square.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
This is so much fun, and that would that would
hopefully allow you to turn your hands over. Once you
turn your shoulders way too past your your target line
or left of your target line, you are not going
left unless you will with a short iron, because it's
easy to keep the clubhead of the short club up
with your rotation, but because the club is so long
(10:03):
for the driver, your your body will turn much quicker
than your hands can get the club head squared up.
So there's a good there's a good drill to feel
the right motion.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And I would love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
There's a good drill to feel the right motion.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And I would love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
What you need to do is put get the distance
away from the ball that you want to hit the ball. Okay.
Put your feet so they're touching together. Okay, and now
take your right foot and move it straight back as
if you're in a walking motion. Okay, so you're gonna
putting it on the ground. You're putting it on the ground, flat, flat,
both feet. Okay. So your feet were together, yep, your
(10:50):
feet were together initially. And you move your front your
right foot directly back. Now this is for a right
handed golfer, okay, okay, and I want you to take
a full swing without either foot leaving the ground, especially
your right heel. And what that's gonna do is it's
gonna lock your hips down on the follow through, so
it's gonna be very difficult to rotate your body through.
(11:12):
It's going to force you to swing your arms and
hands more, which is something that when I get somebody
who who does that, I want them to feel like
they're using more arms and hands on the downswing. And
I know that you hear about the rotation and rotate, rotate,
But I don't think slicers use their hands and forearms enough.
They don't snap their their their club head through. Interesting,
(11:38):
So try that drill, and if you're a left hander,
the left foot goes back.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So with the The key though, is to keep that
right heel down if you're a right hander, and that
in that swing.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And the goal here is to be square at impact,
not having one.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, you're gonna be forced to You're gonna be forced
to use your arms and hands a lot more.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's what it feels like. I'm doing this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
That's right. And the key you got to keep your
when you swing you hit that ball.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's always been a problem to keep your balance on
my driver especially, it's always been a problem where I'll
take it. You know, I'll finish my swing and I'll
be four or five steps in a different direction from
where I started. Well, swing too hard.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
A drill for that is the same one. Make sure
that your feet are together. Put your right foot back,
you could even to make it real difficult, put the
right foot directly behind the left foot, both on the ground,
not touching each other. In the same distance away as
if you were walking, and then put both feet down
and try to take a golf swing and watch how
difficult it is to keep your balance. But if you
(12:34):
get to the point where you can take a full swing,
hit the ball and keep your balance count to two
or three after you swing, watch how much better your
swing gets because you're forcing yourself to swing around a center.
So it's it's very good. You won't find yourself most
people fall away from it to their back foot and
you'll find yourself losing your balance quite a bit initially.
(12:58):
But it's a real good drill to feel your head
still and have you swing around to around a center.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
All we got to figure out how we can get
a video of this of that drill. Sure, yeah, we're
going to have to put that up.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
We'll put you on it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, you you're going to be giving.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I'll swing. I do it all the time, and I'll
show you how to do it and keep your balance.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Awesome, Oh that's great. So what is it? What does
it mean when occasionally I'll just on a driver t shot, Well,
I'll just pop the ball up.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, what happens also when you come over the top
is you create a very steep angle of attack. That's right.
So you're coming over the top, you create a steep
angle of attack, and when you hit basically down on
the ball, the ball goes straight up in the air.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And how many times have I played with people do
the same thing. Oh, I tee it up too high.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's not the reason, although it's you know, I'm sure
it's possible, but for the most part, it's an over
the top move and a steep angle of attack. And
what you want when you're hitting a driver, you actually
want to be on the upswing that that ball. That's
why we put it up by the inside of our
left heel. If you're a right handed golfer, is so
(14:07):
you want to hit this thing just as it starts
the upswing of your of your arc.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, there is. I do have one video on golf
Smarter TV where he's how to hit straight drives a
teacher up in Lake Tahoe, and he said, you know,
get your feet together at the ball. Address the ball.
Put your feet together, take a very little step to
the left with your right your left foot, and then
a big step.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
To the right. That's exactly what you want to do.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah. So, if if this is an issue for you. You
should definitely look at the video on a golf Smarter
TV on our YouTube channel. All right, Ken, now coming
to the realization that hybrids are irons, Yes, but they're
not playing like like woods, and you have to you
have to have a difference. You have to develop two
kinds of swings. You can't have the same swing. That's
(14:56):
not easy to do. Now, it's not what is the difference? Well, well,
I think a lot of times it's intent. And remember
you're putting the ball forward for a wood, so you
want to hit a sweeping type motion. And I think
the big thing with irons is I think people can
get away from the woods because it is at the
bottom the swing's arc or with a driver on the
way up. And I think that the average golfer does
(15:18):
not hit down on the ball.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
They swing up on the ball. So that makes an
iron very difficult. So intent has to change. And I
think another drill that's very good is if you put
a tee in the ground about an inch past the ball,
right in front of the ball about an inch and
make sure that the tea is about grass light, grass
(15:40):
level or even a little lower. And I want you
to not only hit the golf ball, but I want
you to knock the tea out of the ground, so
the t is barely going to be above the ground.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And wait, with which club is this any iron? Any iron?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Any iron? I want you to make sure that you
take it so that the divot goes forward. Now this
this what it does is it gives you something visual
to go after, and it changes your intent. And I
believe wholeheartedly in intent. If you try to lift the ball,
that's what you're gonna do. You're going to try to
get the ball in the air. Your body's gonna come up,
(16:13):
You're going to lift your hands up. If you change
your intent and say I'm going to hit the tee
beyond the ball, I'm going to make the divot beyond
the ball, you can change the mechanics of your swing
by changing your intent. I do it a lot in
the bunker with people too. I do it with chip shots.
Change their intent and they hit better shots. We didn't
talk about the mechanics, but yet their mechanics changed. So
(16:36):
I think that's a very good drill. When you're on
the ground and you're having trouble making a divot is
to just put that tea. Put that little carrot out
there and go after it, and do it until you
start knocking that tea out of the ground, and you
watch the difference. You'll compress the ball, You'll hit it farther,
you'll hit it more solid. You won't believe how good
it feels.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's the whole concept of little ball, big ball versus
big ball hitting big ball, ball, big ball being earth.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
You need a little ball then the big ball. And
it is such a hard thing for the average golfer,
from what I witness and from what I experience, uh
to to get a good divot.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
We don't grow up well. Some obviously, the people that
start playing golf early get it. It's easy to learn
when you're younger, but when you're older, it's harder to learn.
And also when you're growing up, you don't play any
other sport. I guess maybe hockey, but you don't really
play any other sport where you're swinging down to make
the ball go up. You know, baseball isn't meant to
hit that way. You don't play tennis that way. So
(17:35):
I think it's very unorthodox.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
All right now, I want to get back to your
You're real high on the word intent. Yeah, okay, intent
is not getting the ball unto the green. That's not
what you mean.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I think. I think that that's another level of it,
if your intent is to get the ball green instead
of saying I don't want to go in the bunker.
You know, I think that there's also that positive thought too.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know, well, if you're think if you got the
bunker in your head at all, that's not a positive thought.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Don't even think about it exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, So to find intent in what you mean when
you're talking about using your wood versus the hybrid, and
you know what your intent is on the swing? You know,
you have different types of swings.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I do, and when when I have an iron in
my hand, I am trying to purposely stay down and
take a divit. I can see a blade of grass
beyond the ball, and my intent is to swing down
through that grass. Do you.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Aim when you're addressing when you're at a dress. Are
you looking at the front of the ball, the back
of the ball, the center of the ball. What are
you looking at? What is and is that your end point?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
It doesn't matter what I'm looking at because I don't
see what I'm looking at and you're gonna look at
me like what Wait a minute, okay, what Yeah, exactly
what I do before I take a swing, as I
pick a target. It could be a chimney, it could be.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
A branch routine.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yes, so I'm building the image that I want to
swing at. If that chimney's above my flagstick, or a
tower on the hillside, or a tree branch or sometimes
it has to be the flagstick itself, I'm looking at
that and I'm building that image in my head. So
when I finally look back down to the ball, I'm
there for about a second or less and I see
(19:24):
that image because I'm swinging at the image in my head.
I'm trying to stay totally positive.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So the ball is not the target.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, so no, I look at the ball, but I
really am not seeing it. I mean, that's more of
him when I periphery, because I'm still I still have
that object in my head because I want to swing
positively at something where I'm going, and that does a
few things. It takes the mechanics out of my head.
Too many people think mechanically and they think backwards when
(19:52):
they're swinging and playing golf. Think backwards on the range.
When you're on the golf course.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
What do you mean thinks backswing?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Oh okay, thinking of their backswing, their position, cocking the wrists,
whatever they have to think of. I think that you
need to think of that stuff on the range when
you go play golf. You need to play golf and
think forward. Always think forward when you're playing golf.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Are you an advocate of target golf? Yes, focusing on that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Target absolutely, because again, it takes mind off your mechanics
and trouble there's people think of mechanics, they also think
of oh no, there's out of bounds over there, so
they're right, Oh, I got to stay away from that bunker. Yeah.
Don't hit it in the water. You know that type
of thing.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
And I've always cracked up that when you and you
just said, you've set me up perfectly. Don't hit it
in the water. Don't hit What are the last three words.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
That hit it in the water? Exactly?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And that's why I think that building that image in
your head and swinging at it, it does several things
and they're all positive. It keeps mechanics out of your head.
It makes you think of forward, and you don't think
of hitting it someplace negatively. You think of hitting something
authoritatively at a positive object, and I think that's very important.
And you go ahead and think of other sports. When
(21:11):
you're shooting a basketball up and do a hoop, do
you think of how you're cocking your arm back and
the philosophy there you're exactly you're looking at your target
and shooting at it. And I think we do that
in most sports. The golf we don't. And one of
the reasons why we don't is we can think about
it before we swing.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, right, I mean, I have a book over there
and we've done this show. The head pro over at
Pinehurst did this book on and I can't I think
an intentional putting. But it's it's he looks at the hole.
He doesn't look at the ball. I mean, he gets
all set and then he's you know, he does. Why
why are we looking down at the ball when that's
not the target.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, that's still a rarity to see.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Oh yeah, practicing like practicing like that.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I see people practicing like that, but I don't know
if I've really seen anybody on the golf course doing it. Yeah,
that's a good question. Why I don't. I'm not quite sure.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
But would you ever try to putt like that?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
No, but I can understand the practice of either looking
at the hole or even better yet looking at the hole,
going back to the ball and closing your eyes. I
like that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Whoa, whoa, wha, wha.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
What you closing your eyes when you're talking about I'm
talking about practicing now? Oh okay, yeah, because I think
it's important to get the feel and when you take
the vision out of it, you have to feel the
stroke and feel how much you're swinging and so on.
So I think that's very good because I think we
(22:38):
sometimes allow ourselves to use our vision too much and
it can fake you out. And I think it's a
comfort to have yet another sense working for you.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So a lot of what you're talking about makes sense
for somebody who's been playing golf for most of their
life and they don't think about it. Then you get
to person and there are so many people, and I
receeve emails from people I just started playing golf, or
I've just picked it up again after being away for
twenty years, or you know, I'm about to retire and
I'm thinking of playing golf. A lot of that, Okay,
(23:09):
So you people who start out at a different part
of life, and so they're much more in their head
than a kid. Right, the ball just landed in my backyard.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
The hazards are living on a golf course.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I rarely ever hear it hit the Uh it must
have hit the card path ors. I'm because I'm so
glad my wife isn't here, because I've convinced her that
we'll never get it's yeah. Wow. So so when someone
like myself who started playing at forty okay, and then
I played for a number of years before I took
(23:45):
my first lesson, and now all of a sudden, the
mechanics are just driving me nuts because how do I
I've got a nice preshot routine. I focus on a target,
I step up to the ball and try not to
think of it. But there are now all these things,
and it's not easy when you've been through as much
life as you've been and you understand process to knock
(24:06):
that stuff out of your head. How do you do that?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Very good question, that's a that's a book of psychology.
I mean, really, that's the mind game, which there's books
you know it. Yeah, that's a great question. You do
have to separate range from golf course and you can
be analytical as you as you want on the range,
but you need to be free spirited in that golf
course and you need to find a way to do it.
And I think that if you can think of that target,
(24:33):
you'll you'll do a better job of it. Some people
are also just built analytically, you know, they rip apart
everything in detail, and you're not going to change that.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Right right? Are there people who who that your experience
that are new to taking lessons as an adult and
and they are not analytical? After they walk away, don't
you kind of test them's like what did you learn?
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And oh yeah, yeah. I think when you take a
lesson and I took about fifteen years ago, I took
a tennis a bunch of tennis lessons just to just
to be on that side of the ball. And also
I had people that played tennis and golf because I
was at a country club that and I just wanted
to see the differences between ball contact and everything. And
what I found was something I took away something different
(25:20):
than I thought I would. I was thinking of where
my right foot, my left foot, where my racket should
be when I should take it back behind me. The
ball went. You know, I held onto the racket so tightly.
I was terrible because I was thinking so mechanically. So
I think when you get involved at our age with
a new sport, that's what you're going to do. And
it's only time that's going to get you separated from
(25:42):
all those mechanics to feeling the game, because I think
you need to get to a point where you're feeling
it more than you're just thinking mechanically. I don't think
you can help, but once you take a lesson, you're
going to be thinking about it well.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
And then you go. You take your lesson, and you
be huzz You're paying for lessons. Now you're diligent about practicing,
which is not always easy to do when life gets
in the way. It's more about, oh, I have an
opportunity to play golf grade. I'll hit a bucket of
balls before that, but practicing in between is not always
an easy thing to do. And so now I've gone,
(26:17):
I remember what I had my lesson. I've been thinking
about it at night. I go and I practice, and
I come out to the course and now a couple
of weeks go by and I feel like I'm starting
to get the hang of it. I go back for
my next lesson and I'm doing everything wrong. I gotta
start all over again. I hate this game. And it's like, no, no, no,
what are you doing? What is that where you're not
getting a right? And then there's one more thing he
(26:39):
wants to add, and one more thing he wants to add.
It's like, how do I break this down? How do
I keep this all straight?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I want to how often do you practice? You just
you answered the question a few seconds ago about practice
and making it difficult, And it is very difficult if
you're you know, if you're before kids in career or
after kids in career, you've got a chance to practice,
and you have to practice a lot. This isn't that
bucket of balls before you play. You need to go
(27:05):
five six times a week and hit plenty of golf balls.
And I've got one story about a guy used to
work with. He was on the PGA tour back in
the sixties, and he was one of the best college
players ever. And at the time of him being on
the tour, Ben Hogan said that he was one of
the best players on the tour. He just didn't know it,
(27:28):
which he didn't know how to take it, whether it
was a compliment or not. But anyways, he asked ben Hogan,
he was switching his grip and he was just making
a little weaker so for him, he was moving his
right hand rotating it to the left a little bit.
And he asked ben Hogan how long it would take
for it to be natural, and ben Hogan told him
a year. This is a guy who plays for a
living and he practices every day for several hours. So
(27:51):
if it's going to take a guy.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, Tiger Woods is a perfect exact Well, hey, he exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
He switches his swing and he disappeared for a couple
of times, for a year or so and more. Yeah,
so I mean it. You know, you don't want to
discourage the average joe out there, but you know it's there.
You're all average joe's and it's it's it is golf,
and it's very difficult to change. And when you to
be have it become natural is very difficult. What you will.
(28:17):
What I do tell people is when I give them
something to change, I said, okay, for a long time,
you're going to have to do this consciously and you're
going to have to exaggerate it because in most cases
I'll probably get one or two people a year of
all the lessons I give that when I say take
it more to the inside, they yank it way to
the inside. Usually when I make them change something, I
(28:39):
have to tell them. The expression in life is you
give an inch and somebody takes a foot. Well, when
I give lessons, I have to ask for a foot
almost always to get an inch. And it's great to
have video to back it up because people feel dramatic
change and they say, well, I did I shortened my
swing like you asked me to. Uh? And then I
show them on the video and they haven't at all,
(29:01):
you know, or it's been so incremental they feel like
they've made a half a backswing. So I think that
in most cases people have to do it consciously and
exaggerate it for a long time. And you you need
you know, this day and age, you can video yourself
very easily.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
You know, oh my gosh, your phone on your phone,
you can right to a teacher and you.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Can do that pretty simply. So I would I would
recommend doing that. Now, there's some things that people aren't
too keen to see that. You know, they don't. They
don't swing enough or know the game enough to know
what the problem is. But I think if we told
you something simple like hey, you got to have your
swing shortened and it should be about at this point
in your swing, I think they can do that pretty
easily on their own.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Well, when you when you leave a lesson, you're at
the level of conscious incompetence. Yeah, and the goal is
to get to unconscious competence, right, so you're not thinking
about it and you can do it. But that's a
long haul. It's a lot. There's there's many levels between
unconscious are conscious incompetence and unconscious competence.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
And you better know when you leave a lesson what
you're doing wrong and what you need to do to
correct it. And it might be different for different people,
you know, we're all different. I have a saying that says,
if you think of chocolate ice cream and you hit
the ball, well, then that's your thought. And what I
mean by that is I can tell four people four
different things. You never know what's going to work for you. Well,
(30:28):
it could be it could be intent, it could be
swing thought, it could be imagery, it could be something
you feel you just never know right.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And I think that as a golf instructor that you
have to it's not one size fits all. You have
to understand what each person is is doing.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I'll try the most common thing that works, and then
I'll just go down the list and I'll just keep going.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know, so interesting, Ken, Thanks, thank you,
Golf Smarter number three hundred and ninety two, published on
July ninth, twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain
insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the
Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our
interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations
like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
If you're before kids in career or after kids in career,
you've got a chance to practice, and you have to
practice a lot. This isn't that bucket of balls before
you play. You need to go five six times a
week and hit plenty of golf balls. And I've got
one story about a guy I used to work with.
He was on the PGA Tour back in the sixties
and he was one of the best college players ever
(00:51):
at the time of him being on the tour. Ben
Hogan said that he was one of the best players
on the tour. He just didn't know it, which he
didn't know how to take it, whether as a compliment
or not. But anyways, he was switching his grip and
he was just making a little weaker so for him,
he was moving his right hand rotating it to the
left a little bit, and he asked Ben Hogan how
long it would take for it to be natural, and
Ben Hogan told him a year.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Your intent will impact ball striking success with Ken Doherty.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers
and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked
for your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast. Ken. Thank you,
it's good to have you back. I'm glad that you
guys are keeping very good care of this golf course.
I appreciate that gives me something to look at. I
don't have to criticize anything.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
That superintendent does a great job.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Your superintendent does a very good job. How big is
the staff his staff?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Superintendent, Yeah, I believe he's got a round fifteen working
for him.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Grounds crew. So because I noticed a a about eight o'clock,
seven thirty eight o'clock, there are machines running around and
there's three or four guys cleaning bunkers, and I got
to imagine they're not the only ones doing They must
be multiple groups simultaneous.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
That's right, And it depends on the day too. If
we're doing starting times off the first tea, they can
start at one and just go and stay ahead. But
if we have an event like we did this morning,
they've got to go off into different places to because
of the shotgun start that starts to day thirty. So
they get multiple groups that go to different holes and
go from.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
There, and they have to stay ahead of those groups.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
They got to stay ahead. And you know there's also
some areas like we have here in a residential area
where there's noise ordinance, so we have to stay away
from certain areas until seven am.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
All right, let's get some questions have come in from
various listeners, and I thought it would be fun to
talk to you about them. And the first one is
someone who's saying that they hit their woods really well,
but they can't hit irons at all. And I'm like,
iron play versus hybrids and woods. Why, I would think
that the driver is probably the hardest club to hit.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Not necessarily, I think the hardest clubs to hit are
probably the long irons or even the three wood off
the ground. Those are probably the most difficult clubs to hit.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Why.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Well, there's several factors for one. Sometimes somebody's swing type
or shape can determine whether they are better at irons
or better at woods. If you have a very descending
blow on your swing descending angle, well, irons might be
better for you. You might a wood needs to be
more of a shallow approach, a sweeping type swing. You
(03:38):
also have a hozzle that's on that iron, and you
can hit a golf ball on the heel of a
golf club and a wood you're going to be fine,
and an iron you're going to be in some trouble.
So you know, there's again there's different factors. I think
a lot of people. I think you only find that
the better golfers really descend into the ball the way
(04:00):
they should, So the higher the handicap, the better, or
I think they're happier they'll be with their woods because
you don't have to descend. It's more of a sweeping
People tend to jump up and look up and try
to lift the ball up. Well, you can kind of
get away with that with a wood, so I think
you know, when you tee it up with a driver,
it's funny. Some people have a more difficult time with
(04:22):
a driver because it's so long and it's so cumbersome
that they have a hard time getting through it and
they slice the ball where others the balls teed up.
So it is easier for them because there's they don't
worry about hitting the ground. They feel free to swing.
So it really depends on an individual and sometimes what
those individual flaws are in their swing it can determine it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
So you really need to develop different swings for your irons,
as you do have with you.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, and here's a perfect example. When I first started
started hitting at hybrid, I didn't hit it very well
and I kept one why And it wasn't until I
figured out that it was it was an iron. It
was more like an iron. You've got to hit this
on a descending blow that I you know, I moved
the ball back a little bit my stands to create
more of an iron type hit and my intent, which
(05:14):
I think is a very important thing in golf, is
your intent. My intent was to swing and hit down
on the ball instead of trimating and committing to my intent.
Once I did that, I've it's my favorite club in
the bag. I love hybrids because of that. Yeah, So
it's a I think a lot of times it's intent.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I've actually considered. Recently, I've been struggling with my five
iron because I have a hybrid for my four and
my three iron, so and I love them. Guess what's
coming and I'm I'm really considering getting rid of my
uh so right now I have driver three wood, two hybrids,
then five, six, seven.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Let me ask you a question before you go on.
Why do you have a three wood?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Do you like your three I love my three wood? Okay, so,
but here's the interesting point. So Jesse Ortiz of Bobby
Jones Golf, he was, I went down. It's about an
hour away, and hey where his shop is. And he
made me these clubs, and he said, I'm gonna I'm
gonna make this club for you, but based on your
(06:19):
numbers that you provided me once you got fitted, I'm
going to make it more like a four wood, but
you can tell everyone it's a three wood.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Good for him, And so he answered, you answered my question.
You don't really hit a three wood. Three woods are
very difficult to hit. And bye, by the makeup of
your set, I'm thinking if you like all those clubs,
there's gonna be a big difference between your three wood
and your hybrid. So there's got to be something in
the middle. So that forwood helps that it moves it
(06:47):
a little closer. So two things are going to happen.
You may not hit it as far as the three wood,
but I guarantee you're going to be more consistent. And
that's much more important.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And I'll tell you that I recently have put the
driver in the bag for the first four or five
holes because I'm so much more confident with my three
four wood four three wood, and and and it just
gives me more confidences that go on. And then as
I feel like I've got my swing and I know
where I'm going, I'll pull out the driver. Smart play,
(07:16):
thank you, but golf smarter. So but I don't you know, obviously,
on my driver, I'm going to tee it up very high.
And my and my my hybrid, my three four wood, okay,
give me crazy. On on the wood, you know, I'll
tee them up very low. Like if I'm going to
tee up.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Where's your driver go right, left, high, low? What's proba?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Well, if I start with it, it's gonna it's gonna
go right. Okay, it's gonna go right. Sometimes a nice
fade my ball has a tendency to fade to the right.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
You're the instructor, I'm asking you. I've never given you
a lesson. Have you taken lessons? Well kind of yeah, yeah,
So you don't have that answer.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Why it goes to the right is because I I
don't know. I I think that it's because I'm going inside.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Out, outside in. You're most likely swinging to the left
of your target and your club face is open. So
now you got to.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Determine with my wrists breaking too, you.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Got to determine why you're not closing that club face
and why you're swinging what they call over the top
or you know, to the left of your target.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
The lessons that I've been working on recently, I'm just
learning how to roll my hands over for the impact.
That's like wow, And that's a hard one because then
I'm able to keep the right angle on the club
farther down and then make the roll.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Just remember this, tend to call me. Let's give you
a lesson intent anytime we have at our We have
a hitting bay at our facility with with video and
a flight scope which is a launch monitor and it's
radar base and it gives you all the details of
club face angle and and uh uh swing path and
ball speed, clubhead speed, you name it, spin rate. So
(09:04):
it's it's a great tool to have. But I can
tell you without even seeing in your swing, most slicers,
and I'm gonna put you in a general category, most
slicers turn rotate their chest too quickly through the ball,
and not their wrists and forearms, their hands and forearms.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Well, that's the other thing I've been working on is
my hip turn on the back swing.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Okay, and then.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Increasingly having one.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Okay, right, where do your shoulders aim at impact?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
At impact? Probably left? Yeah, it probably should that's right,
and that should be at They should be square square.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
This is so much fun, and that would that would
hopefully allow you to turn your hands over. Once you
turn your shoulders way too past your your target line
or left of your target line, you are not going
left unless you will with a short iron, because it's
easy to keep the clubhead of the short club up
with your rotation, but because the club is so long
(10:03):
for the driver, your your body will turn much quicker
than your hands can get the club head squared up.
So there's a good there's a good drill to feel
the right motion.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And I would love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
There's a good drill to feel the right motion.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And I would love to hear it.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
What you need to do is put get the distance
away from the ball that you want to hit the ball. Okay.
Put your feet so they're touching together. Okay, and now
take your right foot and move it straight back as
if you're in a walking motion. Okay, so you're gonna
putting it on the ground. You're putting it on the ground, flat, flat,
both feet. Okay. So your feet were together, yep, your
(10:50):
feet were together initially. And you move your front your
right foot directly back. Now this is for a right
handed golfer, okay, okay, and I want you to take
a full swing without either foot leaving the ground, especially
your right heel. And what that's gonna do is it's
gonna lock your hips down on the follow through, so
it's gonna be very difficult to rotate your body through.
(11:12):
It's going to force you to swing your arms and
hands more, which is something that when I get somebody
who who does that, I want them to feel like
they're using more arms and hands on the downswing. And
I know that you hear about the rotation and rotate, rotate,
But I don't think slicers use their hands and forearms enough.
They don't snap their their their club head through. Interesting,
(11:38):
So try that drill, and if you're a left hander,
the left foot goes back.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
So with the The key though, is to keep that
right heel down if you're a right hander, and that
in that swing.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
And the goal here is to be square at impact,
not having one.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, you're gonna be forced to You're gonna be forced
to use your arms and hands a lot more.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's what it feels like. I'm doing this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
That's right. And the key you got to keep your
when you swing you hit that ball.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
That's always been a problem to keep your balance on
my driver especially, it's always been a problem where I'll
take it. You know, I'll finish my swing and I'll
be four or five steps in a different direction from
where I started. Well, swing too hard.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
A drill for that is the same one. Make sure
that your feet are together. Put your right foot back,
you could even to make it real difficult, put the
right foot directly behind the left foot, both on the ground,
not touching each other. In the same distance away as
if you were walking, and then put both feet down
and try to take a golf swing and watch how
difficult it is to keep your balance. But if you
(12:34):
get to the point where you can take a full swing,
hit the ball and keep your balance count to two
or three after you swing, watch how much better your
swing gets because you're forcing yourself to swing around a center.
So it's it's very good. You won't find yourself most
people fall away from it to their back foot and
you'll find yourself losing your balance quite a bit initially.
(12:58):
But it's a real good drill to feel your head
still and have you swing around to around a center.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
All we got to figure out how we can get
a video of this of that drill. Sure, yeah, we're
going to have to put that up.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
We'll put you on it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
No, you you're going to be giving.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I'll swing. I do it all the time, and I'll
show you how to do it and keep your balance.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Awesome, Oh that's great. So what is it? What does
it mean when occasionally I'll just on a driver t shot, Well,
I'll just pop the ball up.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Well, what happens also when you come over the top
is you create a very steep angle of attack. That's right.
So you're coming over the top, you create a steep
angle of attack, and when you hit basically down on
the ball, the ball goes straight up in the air.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And how many times have I played with people do
the same thing. Oh, I tee it up too high.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
That's not the reason, although it's you know, I'm sure
it's possible, but for the most part, it's an over
the top move and a steep angle of attack. And
what you want when you're hitting a driver, you actually
want to be on the upswing that that ball. That's
why we put it up by the inside of our
left heel. If you're a right handed golfer, is so
(14:07):
you want to hit this thing just as it starts
the upswing of your of your arc.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, there is. I do have one video on golf
Smarter TV where he's how to hit straight drives a
teacher up in Lake Tahoe, and he said, you know,
get your feet together at the ball. Address the ball.
Put your feet together, take a very little step to
the left with your right your left foot, and then
a big step.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
To the right. That's exactly what you want to do.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah. So, if if this is an issue for you. You
should definitely look at the video on a golf Smarter
TV on our YouTube channel. All right, Ken, now coming
to the realization that hybrids are irons, Yes, but they're
not playing like like woods, and you have to you
have to have a difference. You have to develop two
kinds of swings. You can't have the same swing. That's
(14:56):
not easy to do. Now, it's not what is the difference? Well, well,
I think a lot of times it's intent. And remember
you're putting the ball forward for a wood, so you
want to hit a sweeping type motion. And I think
the big thing with irons is I think people can
get away from the woods because it is at the
bottom the swing's arc or with a driver on the
way up. And I think that the average golfer does
(15:18):
not hit down on the ball.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
They swing up on the ball. So that makes an
iron very difficult. So intent has to change. And I
think another drill that's very good is if you put
a tee in the ground about an inch past the ball,
right in front of the ball about an inch and
make sure that the tea is about grass light, grass
(15:40):
level or even a little lower. And I want you
to not only hit the golf ball, but I want
you to knock the tea out of the ground, so
the t is barely going to be above the ground.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
And wait, with which club is this any iron? Any iron?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Any iron? I want you to make sure that you
take it so that the divot goes forward. Now this
this what it does is it gives you something visual
to go after, and it changes your intent. And I
believe wholeheartedly in intent. If you try to lift the ball,
that's what you're gonna do. You're going to try to
get the ball in the air. Your body's gonna come up,
(16:13):
You're going to lift your hands up. If you change
your intent and say I'm going to hit the tee
beyond the ball, I'm going to make the divot beyond
the ball, you can change the mechanics of your swing
by changing your intent. I do it a lot in
the bunker with people too. I do it with chip shots.
Change their intent and they hit better shots. We didn't
talk about the mechanics, but yet their mechanics changed. So
(16:36):
I think that's a very good drill. When you're on
the ground and you're having trouble making a divot is
to just put that tea. Put that little carrot out
there and go after it, and do it until you
start knocking that tea out of the ground, and you
watch the difference. You'll compress the ball, You'll hit it farther,
you'll hit it more solid. You won't believe how good
it feels.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's the whole concept of little ball, big ball versus
big ball hitting big ball, ball, big ball being earth.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
You need a little ball then the big ball. And
it is such a hard thing for the average golfer,
from what I witness and from what I experience, uh
to to get a good divot.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
We don't grow up well. Some obviously, the people that
start playing golf early get it. It's easy to learn
when you're younger, but when you're older, it's harder to learn.
And also when you're growing up, you don't play any
other sport. I guess maybe hockey, but you don't really
play any other sport where you're swinging down to make
the ball go up. You know, baseball isn't meant to
hit that way. You don't play tennis that way. So
(17:35):
I think it's very unorthodox.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
All right now, I want to get back to your
You're real high on the word intent. Yeah, okay, intent
is not getting the ball unto the green. That's not
what you mean.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
I think. I think that that's another level of it,
if your intent is to get the ball green instead
of saying I don't want to go in the bunker.
You know, I think that there's also that positive thought too.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You know, well, if you're think if you got the
bunker in your head at all, that's not a positive thought.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Don't even think about it exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, So to find intent in what you mean when
you're talking about using your wood versus the hybrid, and
you know what your intent is on the swing? You know,
you have different types of swings.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I do, and when when I have an iron in
my hand, I am trying to purposely stay down and
take a divit. I can see a blade of grass
beyond the ball, and my intent is to swing down
through that grass. Do you.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Aim when you're addressing when you're at a dress. Are
you looking at the front of the ball, the back
of the ball, the center of the ball. What are
you looking at? What is and is that your end point?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
It doesn't matter what I'm looking at because I don't
see what I'm looking at and you're gonna look at
me like what Wait a minute, okay, what Yeah, exactly
what I do before I take a swing, as I
pick a target. It could be a chimney, it could be.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
A branch routine.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yes, so I'm building the image that I want to
swing at. If that chimney's above my flagstick, or a
tower on the hillside, or a tree branch or sometimes
it has to be the flagstick itself, I'm looking at
that and I'm building that image in my head. So
when I finally look back down to the ball, I'm
there for about a second or less and I see
(19:24):
that image because I'm swinging at the image in my head.
I'm trying to stay totally positive.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So the ball is not the target.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah, so no, I look at the ball, but I
really am not seeing it. I mean, that's more of
him when I periphery, because I'm still I still have
that object in my head because I want to swing
positively at something where I'm going, and that does a
few things. It takes the mechanics out of my head.
Too many people think mechanically and they think backwards when
(19:52):
they're swinging and playing golf. Think backwards on the range.
When you're on the golf course.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
What do you mean thinks backswing?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Oh okay, thinking of their backswing, their position, cocking the wrists,
whatever they have to think of. I think that you
need to think of that stuff on the range when
you go play golf. You need to play golf and
think forward. Always think forward when you're playing golf.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Are you an advocate of target golf? Yes, focusing on that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Target absolutely, because again, it takes mind off your mechanics
and trouble there's people think of mechanics, they also think
of oh no, there's out of bounds over there, so
they're right, Oh, I got to stay away from that bunker. Yeah.
Don't hit it in the water. You know that type
of thing.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
And I've always cracked up that when you and you
just said, you've set me up perfectly. Don't hit it
in the water. Don't hit What are the last three words.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
That hit it in the water? Exactly?
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
And that's why I think that building that image in
your head and swinging at it, it does several things
and they're all positive. It keeps mechanics out of your head.
It makes you think of forward, and you don't think
of hitting it someplace negatively. You think of hitting something
authoritatively at a positive object, and I think that's very important.
And you go ahead and think of other sports. When
(21:11):
you're shooting a basketball up and do a hoop, do
you think of how you're cocking your arm back and
the philosophy there you're exactly you're looking at your target
and shooting at it. And I think we do that
in most sports. The golf we don't. And one of
the reasons why we don't is we can think about
it before we swing.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, right, I mean, I have a book over there
and we've done this show. The head pro over at
Pinehurst did this book on and I can't I think
an intentional putting. But it's it's he looks at the hole.
He doesn't look at the ball. I mean, he gets
all set and then he's you know, he does. Why
why are we looking down at the ball when that's
not the target.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, that's still a rarity to see.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Oh yeah, practicing like practicing like that.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
I see people practicing like that, but I don't know
if I've really seen anybody on the golf course doing it. Yeah,
that's a good question. Why I don't. I'm not quite sure.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
But would you ever try to putt like that?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
No, but I can understand the practice of either looking
at the hole or even better yet looking at the hole,
going back to the ball and closing your eyes. I
like that.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Whoa, whoa, wha, wha.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
What you closing your eyes when you're talking about I'm
talking about practicing now? Oh okay, yeah, because I think
it's important to get the feel and when you take
the vision out of it, you have to feel the
stroke and feel how much you're swinging and so on.
So I think that's very good because I think we
(22:38):
sometimes allow ourselves to use our vision too much and
it can fake you out. And I think it's a
comfort to have yet another sense working for you.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So a lot of what you're talking about makes sense
for somebody who's been playing golf for most of their
life and they don't think about it. Then you get
to person and there are so many people, and I
receeve emails from people I just started playing golf, or
I've just picked it up again after being away for
twenty years, or you know, I'm about to retire and
I'm thinking of playing golf. A lot of that, Okay,
(23:09):
So you people who start out at a different part
of life, and so they're much more in their head
than a kid. Right, the ball just landed in my backyard.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
The hazards are living on a golf course.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I rarely ever hear it hit the Uh it must
have hit the card path ors. I'm because I'm so
glad my wife isn't here, because I've convinced her that
we'll never get it's yeah. Wow. So so when someone
like myself who started playing at forty okay, and then
I played for a number of years before I took
(23:45):
my first lesson, and now all of a sudden, the
mechanics are just driving me nuts because how do I
I've got a nice preshot routine. I focus on a target,
I step up to the ball and try not to
think of it. But there are now all these things,
and it's not easy when you've been through as much
life as you've been and you understand process to knock
(24:06):
that stuff out of your head. How do you do that?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
Very good question, that's a that's a book of psychology.
I mean, really, that's the mind game, which there's books
you know it. Yeah, that's a great question. You do
have to separate range from golf course and you can
be analytical as you as you want on the range,
but you need to be free spirited in that golf
course and you need to find a way to do it.
And I think that if you can think of that target,
(24:33):
you'll you'll do a better job of it. Some people
are also just built analytically, you know, they rip apart
everything in detail, and you're not going to change that.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Right right? Are there people who who that your experience
that are new to taking lessons as an adult and
and they are not analytical? After they walk away, don't
you kind of test them's like what did you learn?
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And oh yeah, yeah. I think when you take a
lesson and I took about fifteen years ago, I took
a tennis a bunch of tennis lessons just to just
to be on that side of the ball. And also
I had people that played tennis and golf because I
was at a country club that and I just wanted
to see the differences between ball contact and everything. And
what I found was something I took away something different
(25:20):
than I thought I would. I was thinking of where
my right foot, my left foot, where my racket should
be when I should take it back behind me. The
ball went. You know, I held onto the racket so tightly.
I was terrible because I was thinking so mechanically. So
I think when you get involved at our age with
a new sport, that's what you're going to do. And
it's only time that's going to get you separated from
(25:42):
all those mechanics to feeling the game, because I think
you need to get to a point where you're feeling
it more than you're just thinking mechanically. I don't think
you can help, but once you take a lesson, you're
going to be thinking about it well.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
And then you go. You take your lesson, and you
be huzz You're paying for lessons. Now you're diligent about practicing,
which is not always easy to do when life gets
in the way. It's more about, oh, I have an
opportunity to play golf grade. I'll hit a bucket of
balls before that, but practicing in between is not always
an easy thing to do. And so now I've gone,
(26:17):
I remember what I had my lesson. I've been thinking
about it at night. I go and I practice, and
I come out to the course and now a couple
of weeks go by and I feel like I'm starting
to get the hang of it. I go back for
my next lesson and I'm doing everything wrong. I gotta
start all over again. I hate this game. And it's like, no, no, no,
what are you doing? What is that where you're not
getting a right? And then there's one more thing he
(26:39):
wants to add, and one more thing he wants to add.
It's like, how do I break this down? How do
I keep this all straight?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I want to how often do you practice? You just
you answered the question a few seconds ago about practice
and making it difficult, And it is very difficult if
you're you know, if you're before kids in career or
after kids in career, you've got a chance to practice,
and you have to practice a lot. This isn't that
bucket of balls before you play. You need to go
(27:05):
five six times a week and hit plenty of golf balls.
And I've got one story about a guy used to
work with. He was on the PGA tour back in
the sixties, and he was one of the best college
players ever. And at the time of him being on
the tour, Ben Hogan said that he was one of
the best players on the tour. He just didn't know it,
(27:28):
which he didn't know how to take it, whether it
was a compliment or not. But anyways, he asked ben Hogan,
he was switching his grip and he was just making
a little weaker so for him, he was moving his
right hand rotating it to the left a little bit.
And he asked ben Hogan how long it would take
for it to be natural, and ben Hogan told him
a year. This is a guy who plays for a
living and he practices every day for several hours. So
(27:51):
if it's going to take a guy.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, Tiger Woods is a perfect exact Well, hey, he exactly.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
He switches his swing and he disappeared for a couple
of times, for a year or so and more. Yeah,
so I mean it. You know, you don't want to
discourage the average joe out there, but you know it's there.
You're all average joe's and it's it's it is golf,
and it's very difficult to change. And when you to
be have it become natural is very difficult. What you will.
(28:17):
What I do tell people is when I give them
something to change, I said, okay, for a long time,
you're going to have to do this consciously and you're
going to have to exaggerate it because in most cases
I'll probably get one or two people a year of
all the lessons I give that when I say take
it more to the inside, they yank it way to
the inside. Usually when I make them change something, I
(28:39):
have to tell them. The expression in life is you
give an inch and somebody takes a foot. Well, when
I give lessons, I have to ask for a foot
almost always to get an inch. And it's great to
have video to back it up because people feel dramatic
change and they say, well, I did I shortened my
swing like you asked me to. Uh? And then I
show them on the video and they haven't at all,
(29:01):
you know, or it's been so incremental they feel like
they've made a half a backswing. So I think that
in most cases people have to do it consciously and
exaggerate it for a long time. And you you need
you know, this day and age, you can video yourself
very easily.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
You know, oh my gosh, your phone on your phone,
you can right to a teacher and you.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Can do that pretty simply. So I would I would
recommend doing that. Now, there's some things that people aren't
too keen to see that. You know, they don't. They
don't swing enough or know the game enough to know
what the problem is. But I think if we told
you something simple like hey, you got to have your
swing shortened and it should be about at this point
in your swing, I think they can do that pretty
easily on their own.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Well, when you when you leave a lesson, you're at
the level of conscious incompetence. Yeah, and the goal is
to get to unconscious competence, right, so you're not thinking
about it and you can do it. But that's a
long haul. It's a lot. There's there's many levels between
unconscious are conscious incompetence and unconscious competence.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
And you better know when you leave a lesson what
you're doing wrong and what you need to do to
correct it. And it might be different for different people,
you know, we're all different. I have a saying that says,
if you think of chocolate ice cream and you hit
the ball, well, then that's your thought. And what I
mean by that is I can tell four people four
different things. You never know what's going to work for you. Well,
(30:28):
it could be it could be intent, it could be
swing thought, it could be imagery, it could be something
you feel you just never know right.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And I think that as a golf instructor that you
have to it's not one size fits all. You have
to understand what each person is is doing.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
I'll try the most common thing that works, and then
I'll just go down the list and I'll just keep going.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know, so interesting, Ken, Thanks, thank you,
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