March 18, 2019 • 14 mins
Stephanie Shain, director of the Stop Puppy Mills Campaign for the Humane Society of the United States, completed an 8-month investigation and the results are grim. We've all heard about the conditions in puppy mills but were you aware that most pet stores buy their puppies from these sorts of enterprises? On this week's "Good Dog", we hear from Stephanie Shain, director of the Stop Puppy Mills Campaign for the Humane Society of the United States.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Smarter Podcasts dot Com delivering sound advice. I guess you'd have to be above
a certain age to remember the song. How much is that doggie in the
window? We're back in the daythere was no stigma about buying a puppy
(00:21):
from a pet store. No onehad heard of puppy mills. They may
not have even existed. But todayConsumer Beware the Humane Society of the United
States revealed the results of an eightmonth investigation into pet Land Incorporated, the
largest chain of puppy selling stores inthe nation. Hi. I'm joe Anne
Green, and welcome to Good Dog, where today's guest is Stephanie Shane,
(00:42):
director of the Humane Society's Stop PuppyMills campaign. Welcome, Stephanie, Thank
you so much. It's good tohave you here. To be here.
If I go into a pet Landstore, Stephanie and ask where the cute
puppies in the window come from,what will I likely be told? Oh,
they'll tell you about the breeders theywork with. You know, when
we were going into these stores andasking that question, we heard that they
(01:04):
only deal with breeders that Petland inspects. We told were told that they only
deal with the best breeders in thecountry. And one thing that every store
told us was that they only dealin USDA certified puppies. What does that
mean, Well, it doesn't reallymean anything. Unfortunately. The USDA,
the United States Department of Agriculture,does inspect puppy mills. Some puppy mills,
(01:27):
but even if you have a USDAlicense, it doesn't mean that you're
a good operation, that you're takingcare of your animals. In fact,
it pretty much means you're a puppymill. So what is a puppy mill
and how poorly are these dogs treated? You know, puppy mills are defined
really by conditions. You can havepuppy mills as small as twenty dogs and
just in a shed, or hugeoperations with over a thousand breeding dogs.
(01:49):
The main thing that we see inevery puppy mill is dogs living their entire
lives confined, whether that's in acage or a kennel, their whole life
is there. They're there for onereason and one reason only, and that's
to produce puppies. Generally, theconditions are pretty disgusting. They're dirty,
they're not The cages aren't clean.But even if they were clean. You
know what, we see your dogswho are so social and so desperately want
(02:10):
to be with people, and they'reforced to live for years on it in
a cage just to crank out thosepuppies. So is you a greater concern
for the breeding dogs rather than forthe puppies themselves, who are fairly soon
after birth. I would assume separatedand sent off to a store, right
absolutely, And I'm so glad youraise that because we do have the issue
here where so many people want tofocus on the puppies. You know,
(02:34):
they're cue and they're babies, andcertainly we're concerned about them, but you're
right, they're out of that puppymill in about eight weeks. And while
we know that they're more likely tohave problems, both health and behavior problems,
the real victims are their moms anddads, because they don't ever get
out of that cage. They livethere their entire life. Is this a
regulated industry. It's regulated in someways if big operations, if they're selling
(02:55):
like to pet stores, if theyessentially sell into the wholesale market, they
are regulated by the USDA. Moststates don't regulate this at all. So
even if you have seven hundred breedingdogs. As long as you sell directly
to the consumer, whether that's overthe internet or through a local flea market,
you don't have to be licensed inmost states by anyone, So that
means no one ever goes and looksat these puppies, are these breeding dogs
(03:19):
to make sure they're okay. Sois it the kind of thing where if
one hears about an operation that's reallysketchy, that you can actually call someone
and have them go in and investigateafter the fact. Sometimes, certainly,
anytime someone hears about what they thinkis a puppy mail or just sort of
a bad breeding operation, we encouragethem to get in touch with us at
the Humane Society or with their localanimal control agency to see if there's something
(03:43):
that can be done. The unfortunatesituation, though, is really the laws
are pretty bad surrounding this, Socertainly want to see laws strengthened because the
protections aren't that great for these dogs. Or is it state by state or
is this federal? It varies dependingon how the puppies are sold. There's
some federal regulation and there's some stateregulation, but in many places there's no
regulation of a lot of these bigbreeders at all, which is why we
(04:05):
always try to go to the dogloving public, to the puppy buyer,
and say, hey, you needto be careful about where you get your
dog because you might be supporting animalcruelty. Are there stores that sell puppies
that really do come from responsible breeders, not that I've ever seen. Really,
wow, I've never seen it.And we look over and over again.
(04:27):
We always hear that from people inpet stores, that they talk about
the great breeders they deal with.But every single time we've looked at the
records of an individual pet store orin this case, a chain like pet
Land, we've found puppy mills arethe source of those puppies. What can
people expect in terms of the problemsthat may crop up later with these puppies.
We know that how a puppy istreated in the earliest weeks of life
(04:48):
can really make a big difference whenit comes to laying the groundwork for good
behavior, Absolutely right, So whatare the results of puppies being brought into
the world in this kind of whatyou describe by I know in the literature
as a cash crop environment. That'sexactly what they are. I mean,
they're treated like an agricultural crop.And you know, if someone was selling
posters from a place like this,they would be in more trouble than they
(05:10):
are unfortunately, than they are theway they're selling these dogs. Puppies who
come out of puppy mills are morelikely to have health problems either immediately after
purchase. You know, even apuppy who seems pretty healthy in the pet
store. We hear so many timesof people who buy that puppy and within
a week the puppies either dead orextremely ill. Certainly you have a greater
likelihood that you're going to have problemsdown the road. You know, these
(05:31):
genetic things that may not show upuntil your puppies a year or two years
old. And the behavior that youmentioned is so important early socialization with people.
That means, you know, fromthe day that puppy's born, they're
being handled by people and given good, loving attention by people is so important.
And certainly the puppies and puppy millsdon't get that. Is it more
likely to have a behavior problem?Is it worse when they've gone through these
(05:56):
distributors and brokers or does that notmake any difference really well, you know,
I think it's more it's more traumato them for sure. I mean,
I you know, healthwise, theyare certainly exposed to more animals when
they're going from one place to another. And it's you know, important to
remember these puppies are only eight weeksold, so there's not a lot of
strength there for their immune system tofight off all the different things that they're
exposed to. But for us,it really is a matter and the main
(06:18):
concern is going back to that thatmill, that original source of that puppies
where the biggest problems are going tocrop up and again where the moms and
dads are stuck forever. In termsof what we eat, We've heard a
lot over the years about what happens, you know, in the creation of
veal for instance, and even chickenswhere you've got large numbers of animals and
small quarters like that, they givethem all kinds of antibiotics as a preventative
(06:41):
for infection breaking out. Are peopledoing the same thing with dogs? You
know? We certainly hear quite abit of puppy millers sort of practicing veterinary
type medicine at home and creating theirown concoctions to try to ward off disease.
I will say, though, Iam always amazed and every time I
see it, I'm always amazed atthe horrific conditions these animals can be in,
(07:02):
these dogs can be in, andthey will continue to produce puppies.
You know, you don't need ahealthy dog, unfortunately to breed them.
And so we see dogs who youlook at and you can't believe they're alive,
let alone pregnant. But we seethat time and time again every time
we go into a puppy mill andrescue animals out of there, we're seeing
pregnant animals in horrific conditions. Sofor the most part, is it that
(07:24):
they don't clean the cages and thatthey're lying around in their own feces?
Is that the issue a major partof it? We certainly, though unfortunately,
see quite a bit of veterinary care, lack of veterinary care, so
animals who are either ill or injurednot receiving veterinary care. The filth is
probably the most overwhelming thing, becausethe smell is so powerful and it's you
know, just the accumulation of fecesover so long is disgusting, and it
(07:47):
just creates an unhealthy environment. Absolutely, But I think the worst thing that
I see is, you know,the emotional state of these animals because they're
dogs. You know, they've beenbred for so long to be our companions,
whether there are working companions or arejust our buddies who share the couch
at home, there are companions.And to see a dog, a dog
(08:09):
who's so highly social and they've beenbred to be so highly social, to
live a life essentially of social isolationfrom people is awful because you see the
little spirits of these dogs just brokenin those puppy mills. This is so
sad. It's so sad. Butyou know, I think I always want
to remind people these puppy mills aresupported one puppy at a time, and
(08:31):
we can stop them one puppy ata time. And it really is up
to everyone who cares at all aboutdogs to make sure that they're not supporting
puppy mills, because your money reallydoes go back to that puppy mill.
So is your advice to families,particularly as we move toward December, where
people are in the market for anew puppy. And that's a whole separate
discussion of whether people should even considergetting a pet as a holiday present.
(08:54):
But what advice would you give consumersabout where to procure or purchase pops?
And I say procure because you don'tnecessarily have to purchase, that's right.
You know, puppy millers, thisis the time of year they love.
This is the top puppy selling season, and so they're gearing up to sell
the most puppies they do throughout theyear. Of course, we always advocate
(09:15):
adoption, even if you want apure bread. One out of every four
dogs in a shelter nationwide is apure bread. So visiting your local shelter
and seeing who they have that's inneed of a home is a great first
start. And even going beyond yourlocal shelter. We many of us live
in urban areas where there are manyshelters if you just drive a little further,
absolutely and you know you could fit. So easy to find your for
(09:35):
fine shelters in your area, justgo online and type in your zip code
and they'll come up. The otherthing, though, is pure breed rescue
groups. Certainly, you know ifyou're interested in a specific breed of dog,
they're rescue groups for every kind ofdog out there, and for people
who decide, for whatever reason,that's just not for them and they're going
to purchase a puppy, the onething most important is that you go to
your breeder's home. You visit,you meet your puppies parents, you see
(09:58):
where they live and how they're takingcare, and if you can't do that
one thing, then you shouldn't buythe puppy. I have to tell you.
That's where we got Lulu. Itwas a crazy story for we only
get small, non shedding dogs,and I had been searching for about a
year at a number of different sheltersin our area and online with different small
breed rescue groups and hadn't found quitethe right dog yet. And we ended
(10:22):
up finding a family through Craigslist inour area that was breeding dogs, and
we went and spent time there withthe family and saw what they were doing.
And that's that's where we got Lulu. You know, it just it
just speaks to that need for reallychecking out who you're dealing with, because
we absolutely at the Humane Society believethat if someone is breeding dogs, those
(10:45):
animals should be living in the homeas part of the family. You know,
they should be pets. First andused for breeding second. And if
someone's not treating them like that,then don't get the puppy, you go
somewhere else. Great, Thanks somuch for this advice. If people want
to help in your stop Puppy Millscampaign, what should they do? They
can go right to our website.There's information there about contacting pet Land,
(11:05):
about lots of other things they cando, and that's Humane Society dot org.
Great. Stephanie Shane, director ofthe Humane Society's Stop Puppy Mills campaign,
thanks so much for being with ustoday and happy Thanksgiving. Thank you
you too. At the beginning oftoday's episode, I mentioned the old song
how Much is that Doggie in theWindow? Turns out that Patti Page,
who made that song famous, hasrecorded a new version with lyrics that reflect
(11:28):
a new consciousness. In nineteen fiftytwo, when Patty first recorded her song,
the message was harmless. Today,when most pups at pet stores come
from puppy mills, a very differentstory. I'm Joe Anne Green, Thanks
for listening. We wish you avery happy Thanksgiving and leave you with Patti
Page and her new two Do yousee that Doggy in the shelter? The
(11:54):
woe with the chap me home.If you give him love and attention,
he will be your best friend forlife. In each town, and see
it across the nation. There's somany dogs with no home, hungry with
(12:22):
no want to protect them, lostin this world all alone. Do you
see that dog he in the shelter, the one with the take me home
eyes. If you give him loveand attention, he will be your best
(12:50):
friend for life. Collies and begoes by the roadside, Puppies and dogs
in the street. Once they arerest, you'd buy a shelter. They'll
(13:11):
finally have something to eat. Doggiesand kidies who are homeless with sad eyes
and tails hanging down. Let's dowhat we can to show them kindness and
(13:35):
let them know they've been found.Do you see that doggy in the shelter,
the one with the take me homeeyes. If you give him love
and attention, you will be yourbest friend for life. M
Smarter Podcasts dot Com delivering sound advice. I guess you'd have to be above
a certain age to remember the song. How much is that doggie in the
window? We're back in the daythere was no stigma about buying a puppy
(00:21):
from a pet store. No onehad heard of puppy mills. They may
not have even existed. But todayConsumer Beware the Humane Society of the United
States revealed the results of an eightmonth investigation into pet Land Incorporated, the
largest chain of puppy selling stores inthe nation. Hi. I'm joe Anne
Green, and welcome to Good Dog, where today's guest is Stephanie Shane,
(00:42):
director of the Humane Society's Stop PuppyMills campaign. Welcome, Stephanie, Thank
you so much. It's good tohave you here. To be here.
If I go into a pet Landstore, Stephanie and ask where the cute
puppies in the window come from,what will I likely be told? Oh,
they'll tell you about the breeders theywork with. You know, when
we were going into these stores andasking that question, we heard that they
(01:04):
only deal with breeders that Petland inspects. We told were told that they only
deal with the best breeders in thecountry. And one thing that every store
told us was that they only dealin USDA certified puppies. What does that
mean, Well, it doesn't reallymean anything. Unfortunately. The USDA,
the United States Department of Agriculture,does inspect puppy mills. Some puppy mills,
(01:27):
but even if you have a USDAlicense, it doesn't mean that you're
a good operation, that you're takingcare of your animals. In fact,
it pretty much means you're a puppymill. So what is a puppy mill
and how poorly are these dogs treated? You know, puppy mills are defined
really by conditions. You can havepuppy mills as small as twenty dogs and
just in a shed, or hugeoperations with over a thousand breeding dogs.
(01:49):
The main thing that we see inevery puppy mill is dogs living their entire
lives confined, whether that's in acage or a kennel, their whole life
is there. They're there for onereason and one reason only, and that's
to produce puppies. Generally, theconditions are pretty disgusting. They're dirty,
they're not The cages aren't clean.But even if they were clean. You
know what, we see your dogswho are so social and so desperately want
(02:10):
to be with people, and they'reforced to live for years on it in
a cage just to crank out thosepuppies. So is you a greater concern
for the breeding dogs rather than forthe puppies themselves, who are fairly soon
after birth. I would assume separatedand sent off to a store, right
absolutely, And I'm so glad youraise that because we do have the issue
here where so many people want tofocus on the puppies. You know,
(02:34):
they're cue and they're babies, andcertainly we're concerned about them, but you're
right, they're out of that puppymill in about eight weeks. And while
we know that they're more likely tohave problems, both health and behavior problems,
the real victims are their moms anddads, because they don't ever get
out of that cage. They livethere their entire life. Is this a
regulated industry. It's regulated in someways if big operations, if they're selling
(02:55):
like to pet stores, if theyessentially sell into the wholesale market, they
are regulated by the USDA. Moststates don't regulate this at all. So
even if you have seven hundred breedingdogs. As long as you sell directly
to the consumer, whether that's overthe internet or through a local flea market,
you don't have to be licensed inmost states by anyone, So that
means no one ever goes and looksat these puppies, are these breeding dogs
(03:19):
to make sure they're okay. Sois it the kind of thing where if
one hears about an operation that's reallysketchy, that you can actually call someone
and have them go in and investigateafter the fact. Sometimes, certainly,
anytime someone hears about what they thinkis a puppy mail or just sort of
a bad breeding operation, we encouragethem to get in touch with us at
the Humane Society or with their localanimal control agency to see if there's something
(03:43):
that can be done. The unfortunatesituation, though, is really the laws
are pretty bad surrounding this, Socertainly want to see laws strengthened because the
protections aren't that great for these dogs. Or is it state by state or
is this federal? It varies dependingon how the puppies are sold. There's
some federal regulation and there's some stateregulation, but in many places there's no
regulation of a lot of these bigbreeders at all, which is why we
(04:05):
always try to go to the dogloving public, to the puppy buyer,
and say, hey, you needto be careful about where you get your
dog because you might be supporting animalcruelty. Are there stores that sell puppies
that really do come from responsible breeders, not that I've ever seen. Really,
wow, I've never seen it.And we look over and over again.
(04:27):
We always hear that from people inpet stores, that they talk about
the great breeders they deal with.But every single time we've looked at the
records of an individual pet store orin this case, a chain like pet
Land, we've found puppy mills arethe source of those puppies. What can
people expect in terms of the problemsthat may crop up later with these puppies.
We know that how a puppy istreated in the earliest weeks of life
(04:48):
can really make a big difference whenit comes to laying the groundwork for good
behavior, Absolutely right, So whatare the results of puppies being brought into
the world in this kind of whatyou describe by I know in the literature
as a cash crop environment. That'sexactly what they are. I mean,
they're treated like an agricultural crop.And you know, if someone was selling
posters from a place like this,they would be in more trouble than they
(05:10):
are unfortunately, than they are theway they're selling these dogs. Puppies who
come out of puppy mills are morelikely to have health problems either immediately after
purchase. You know, even apuppy who seems pretty healthy in the pet
store. We hear so many timesof people who buy that puppy and within
a week the puppies either dead orextremely ill. Certainly you have a greater
likelihood that you're going to have problemsdown the road. You know, these
(05:31):
genetic things that may not show upuntil your puppies a year or two years
old. And the behavior that youmentioned is so important early socialization with people.
That means, you know, fromthe day that puppy's born, they're
being handled by people and given good, loving attention by people is so important.
And certainly the puppies and puppy millsdon't get that. Is it more
likely to have a behavior problem?Is it worse when they've gone through these
(05:56):
distributors and brokers or does that notmake any difference really well, you know,
I think it's more it's more traumato them for sure. I mean,
I you know, healthwise, theyare certainly exposed to more animals when
they're going from one place to another. And it's you know, important to
remember these puppies are only eight weeksold, so there's not a lot of
strength there for their immune system tofight off all the different things that they're
exposed to. But for us,it really is a matter and the main
(06:18):
concern is going back to that thatmill, that original source of that puppies
where the biggest problems are going tocrop up and again where the moms and
dads are stuck forever. In termsof what we eat, We've heard a
lot over the years about what happens, you know, in the creation of
veal for instance, and even chickenswhere you've got large numbers of animals and
small quarters like that, they givethem all kinds of antibiotics as a preventative
(06:41):
for infection breaking out. Are peopledoing the same thing with dogs? You
know? We certainly hear quite abit of puppy millers sort of practicing veterinary
type medicine at home and creating theirown concoctions to try to ward off disease.
I will say, though, Iam always amazed and every time I
see it, I'm always amazed atthe horrific conditions these animals can be in,
(07:02):
these dogs can be in, andthey will continue to produce puppies.
You know, you don't need ahealthy dog, unfortunately to breed them.
And so we see dogs who youlook at and you can't believe they're alive,
let alone pregnant. But we seethat time and time again every time
we go into a puppy mill andrescue animals out of there, we're seeing
pregnant animals in horrific conditions. Sofor the most part, is it that
(07:24):
they don't clean the cages and thatthey're lying around in their own feces?
Is that the issue a major partof it? We certainly, though unfortunately,
see quite a bit of veterinary care, lack of veterinary care, so
animals who are either ill or injurednot receiving veterinary care. The filth is
probably the most overwhelming thing, becausethe smell is so powerful and it's you
know, just the accumulation of fecesover so long is disgusting, and it
(07:47):
just creates an unhealthy environment. Absolutely, But I think the worst thing that
I see is, you know,the emotional state of these animals because they're
dogs. You know, they've beenbred for so long to be our companions,
whether there are working companions or arejust our buddies who share the couch
at home, there are companions.And to see a dog, a dog
(08:09):
who's so highly social and they've beenbred to be so highly social, to
live a life essentially of social isolationfrom people is awful because you see the
little spirits of these dogs just brokenin those puppy mills. This is so
sad. It's so sad. Butyou know, I think I always want
to remind people these puppy mills aresupported one puppy at a time, and
(08:31):
we can stop them one puppy ata time. And it really is up
to everyone who cares at all aboutdogs to make sure that they're not supporting
puppy mills, because your money reallydoes go back to that puppy mill.
So is your advice to families,particularly as we move toward December, where
people are in the market for anew puppy. And that's a whole separate
discussion of whether people should even considergetting a pet as a holiday present.
(08:54):
But what advice would you give consumersabout where to procure or purchase pops?
And I say procure because you don'tnecessarily have to purchase, that's right.
You know, puppy millers, thisis the time of year they love.
This is the top puppy selling season, and so they're gearing up to sell
the most puppies they do throughout theyear. Of course, we always advocate
(09:15):
adoption, even if you want apure bread. One out of every four
dogs in a shelter nationwide is apure bread. So visiting your local shelter
and seeing who they have that's inneed of a home is a great first
start. And even going beyond yourlocal shelter. We many of us live
in urban areas where there are manyshelters if you just drive a little further,
absolutely and you know you could fit. So easy to find your for
(09:35):
fine shelters in your area, justgo online and type in your zip code
and they'll come up. The otherthing, though, is pure breed rescue
groups. Certainly, you know ifyou're interested in a specific breed of dog,
they're rescue groups for every kind ofdog out there, and for people
who decide, for whatever reason,that's just not for them and they're going
to purchase a puppy, the onething most important is that you go to
your breeder's home. You visit,you meet your puppies parents, you see
(09:58):
where they live and how they're takingcare, and if you can't do that
one thing, then you shouldn't buythe puppy. I have to tell you.
That's where we got Lulu. Itwas a crazy story for we only
get small, non shedding dogs,and I had been searching for about a
year at a number of different sheltersin our area and online with different small
breed rescue groups and hadn't found quitethe right dog yet. And we ended
(10:22):
up finding a family through Craigslist inour area that was breeding dogs, and
we went and spent time there withthe family and saw what they were doing.
And that's that's where we got Lulu. You know, it just it
just speaks to that need for reallychecking out who you're dealing with, because
we absolutely at the Humane Society believethat if someone is breeding dogs, those
(10:45):
animals should be living in the homeas part of the family. You know,
they should be pets. First andused for breeding second. And if
someone's not treating them like that,then don't get the puppy, you go
somewhere else. Great, Thanks somuch for this advice. If people want
to help in your stop Puppy Millscampaign, what should they do? They
can go right to our website.There's information there about contacting pet Land,
(11:05):
about lots of other things they cando, and that's Humane Society dot org.
Great. Stephanie Shane, director ofthe Humane Society's Stop Puppy Mills campaign,
thanks so much for being with ustoday and happy Thanksgiving. Thank you
you too. At the beginning oftoday's episode, I mentioned the old song
how Much is that Doggie in theWindow? Turns out that Patti Page,
who made that song famous, hasrecorded a new version with lyrics that reflect
(11:28):
a new consciousness. In nineteen fiftytwo, when Patty first recorded her song,
the message was harmless. Today,when most pups at pet stores come
from puppy mills, a very differentstory. I'm Joe Anne Green, Thanks
for listening. We wish you avery happy Thanksgiving and leave you with Patti
Page and her new two Do yousee that Doggy in the shelter? The
(11:54):
woe with the chap me home.If you give him love and attention,
he will be your best friend forlife. In each town, and see
it across the nation. There's somany dogs with no home, hungry with
(12:22):
no want to protect them, lostin this world all alone. Do you
see that dog he in the shelter, the one with the take me home
eyes. If you give him loveand attention, he will be your best
(12:50):
friend for life. Collies and begoes by the roadside, Puppies and dogs
in the street. Once they arerest, you'd buy a shelter. They'll
(13:11):
finally have something to eat. Doggiesand kidies who are homeless with sad eyes
and tails hanging down. Let's dowhat we can to show them kindness and
(13:35):
let them know they've been found.Do you see that doggy in the shelter,
the one with the take me homeeyes. If you give him love
and attention, you will be yourbest friend for life. M
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