GPS Audiovisual Podcast - T3E45 - Poli Martínez Kaplun

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Audiovisual producers meetings with the protagonists?According to the podcast season on PS audiovisual,
the changes of the industry, thenew platforms, the challenges that come
audiovisual producers, encounters with the protagonists? Polly Martínez Caplum is licensed in communication.

(00:31):
She began her relationship with audiovisual asan independent producer, she is a
cameraman and audiovisual filmmaker of advertising andmultimedia content. After several years teaching professionally
abroad, he returned to Argentina andfounded a film company with Lucas Berten and
Carlos Winograt is called Life Stories,in which they make videos, training documentaries

(00:56):
and products. Life Stories produced documentariesLea and Mira Leave their footprint of two
thousand sixteen. The house of Wongziof two thousand nineteen winner of the Audience
Prize the best documentary at the JewishFestival of Miami and the two mariet premiered

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in Argentina in March of two thousandtwenty- four Poli, which was for
you cinema. The first time youwent to the movies. What a question
you look at or remember when Iwent to the movies. Prinities, but

(01:41):
she was a girl to me.My parents took me to the movies a
lot and it was something I lovedto do. It was a great entertainment
with my sister. We asked togo to the movies my parents, who
separated when she was pretty young.The six years and the outings we made

(02:05):
with my dad were always to themovies. During the weekends there was a
very nice cinema where is the Museumof Fine Arts, which today is a
coffee re no and something. Yeah, there was a movie theater there and
they had nice movies. I'm talking about the' 70s. I

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don' t know who programmed them. I don' t know if that
was part of the museum, butI remember watching Jackstati, for example,
from a lot of French movies forboys. I remember watching the magic flute,
movies that sometimes might even bore mea little bit, but it was

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a great show. So I relateit to that maybe also to the outings
with my little girl and dad withone and with having a great time and
you have these outings good, butI say to your dad you go to

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the cinema as a little girl,but there are other family backgrounds linked to
the movie in the family. Well, I found that out in, I
mean, the image. For meit' s something very very familiar family
photos on the albums my mom wasfilming on her but eight had a camera

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since I was very young. ThenI started watching bigger movies, these that
my mom signed and they' vebeen since I was born. So and,
in fact, in the whole storythat I make familiar with the house
of Advance. There I find outthat my grandfather also had an eight-

(03:55):
millimeter camera and that my great-grandfather had a camera and I soak up
the time of my grandparents. I' m already talking. He was born
in a thousand eight eighty, thatis, he began to have a photo
camera in the early twentieth century,when practically photography was also making him have
a camera. He is a domesticcamera and I realize that he also revealed

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in the same way, because thereare also photos of his studio and there
are pictures of my grandmother and herbrother in Berlin, very young. I
mean, it' s a camerathat' s built into family life,
into domestic life. They are notstudio photos and that for the time was

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something very, very exceptional. Thenthere I also recognize, apart from this
research that I did for my filma kind of lineage in the pictures on
the mother side. Lots of pictures, lots of movies, my maternal grandfather,
not my great- grandfather, mygrandfather who had the camera. Hoho
millimeters. He also sent them outand then classified them, made copies,

(05:08):
sent them to my mom and hersisters. The films and so is recorded
the whole history of each because eachone lived in a different country because of
the migrations that had to live andthe way to communicate through these films.
I mean, my mom, shefound out what was going on with my
aunt, who lived in Venezuela,because she got my aunt' s copy

(05:33):
of the movie at a family outingor on a vacation, and so did
my aunt and us in relation tomy grandparents who lived in Switzerland. Even
I imagined from the film I made, I thought that not that I was
a family in days because of afamily completely dispersed in the world that they

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had had, they had suffered manymigrations. They were German Jews who by
war had to emigrate for war,persecution and lived from country to country for
different reasons. First in Egypt,after living a few years, many years
in Egypt, about ten. Onceagain the nationalist wars came, that is,
they were saved from Germany in Egypt. My mom was born in Egypt.

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My aunts also after the nationalist warsand then again had to emigrate,
went to Switzerland. And in Switzerlandmy grandfather didn' t want to stay
because he didn' t want toknow anything about Europe anymore and choose to
come to Argentina. Then there arefive migrations. My grandfather was already from
Kiev and my grandmother from Berlin.And what I came to discover is that

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it was a family in the diasporathat, more than territory, had shared
images, a family of images andthat they had found a way to stay
in touch, to keep communicating fromthese images, that they were sending the
photos and the films, that theywere sending to each other at a time

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that were very difficult or at sixtyseventy that is, came the amendments with
the films. Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, so, well.
I then studied film, television,communication science, but it took me a
long time to discover this heritage thatI have in images. No. It

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' s not that when I studiedmovies I said it' s because my
mom had a camera or because Ihad a camera or because my grandparents or
because I didn' t. Allthis baggage I found much later. Curiously,
no, but I say it wouldbe resounding around somewhere, yours because

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well, if you then set outfor production and for audiovisual production, there
was certainly something, if you finishdiscovering it when you do, besides this,
when you make a movie. Yeah, when I make the movie and
you start opening the boxes and theboxes full of pictures. But that'

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s funny, too. So manymigrations and always the photos were accompanying the
trips, not very difficult trips tomake a first trip of my grandmother escaping
from Balin in the decade, inthe thirty- six, that is,
already very late, and taking whatwas most valuable to her, the objects

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that were of value, oil paintingsthat there were also of the family of
Germany and documents and photographs, andthese photographs that she had my great-
grandfather, that is, that shepreserved that. It seems to me that
it is also not obvious boxes ofphotos to carry them from one side to
the other, that is, thevalue that those photos had also, not

(08:58):
the value in the family. Howimportant that was already for my grandparents,
for my grandparents to keep the photographs. Yeah and well, and I kept
doing my tour. And then,as you say, as I began to
discover the story, I began tounderstand many things about myself, too,

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that very journey that I had beendoing almost intuitively. But, well,
there was a legacy. It wasyes, of course, side, it
was clear. Now I think goodtoo. Your three films are documentaries.
Yes, and I relate the photographs, these that traveled through the family-

(09:41):
to- family world to the documentarygenre, which is somehow I think I
don' t know. Maybe yourgrandmother was also trying to testify by keeping
those photographs. Yes, yes,there is a family testimony, but also
with observing those photographs is all good. What happens with photography, which is

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a capture, is as if onecaptures an instant of life and in that
instant one can deduce a whole life, a whole journey. I mean,
seeing photographs of my grandmother of Girland then boiling her in the passage of

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the years and then seeing photographs,even devastikas, of runs on the floor
that are no longer photographs that appearon Google or in archives, are from
the family album. Then seeing theirlives through those photos, it certainly gives
me a much bigger perspective on theirlives. And the photograph you saw as

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that temporary. It is to observephotography as if one were in that instant
there, then it is also ajourney through that story, through the great
history and history of the family.And that' s typical of the documentary
genre, like watching a camera andgood to see what there is without intervention

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what is that motion photograph that appearswith the documentary and in my case,
it seems to me that also throughthe three films that I made is the
recording and observation of the people.Yes, they can count those people through

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the image when they register them,well a genre the truth that is very
very, very fascinating and when thatgenre also uses the resource of the archive,
that is, of the photographs thataccount for past lives, clearly enriching,

(12:00):
of course yes, yes, whenthere is that resource, the resource
that I believe in the three filmsappear and mostly in this second in the
history of my family, because therewas that file. I like it very
much that one can as if itwere a tunnel of time, almost of

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course, of course it is arecord of time. At the same time,
all that photographic flow. Now you. You started on TV. Your
approach to audiovisual began on television,yes, because I studied communication sciences here
at UVA and I also did atertiary course on Canal thirteen, which was

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a rare experience they did from thebeginning of democracy. There, in the
year when it was in the yeareighty- three, with democracy Alfonsín,
they began to make the decision totrain the people of television, the people

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of the attention came more of thetrade. They were formed starting as wires,
well, but ba talking. Therethey went up technical ladders and here
they did a school itself inside Kalanters, and also helped Spanish television and French

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television. They made convention, whichwas the truth, which is super interesting
and I got lucky. They tookan entrance exam, they took an exam,
there were many applicants and I wentin, that is, there were
a hundred people taking that course,a course that lasted two years I had
a TV training school and I wasdoing, in the meantime, my communication

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science career and that was very formative. That from there I started in audiovisual.
But especially when I went to France, to the French training school that
subsidized this television school in Karantes,because they gave me a scholarship and I
went to study there in France,to Lina two years and all that experience
was very enriching for me, becauseLina, for example, is an audiovisual

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school with stagh, sound courses,montage courses of narrative. That is very
serious and specific for the people whoworked on television and, for example,
for the area of television documentaries,that is, in all genres. And

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when I got back, I workedat Canal Thirteen. I was happy there
and I was an editor at CanalThirteen and in turn, well, I
was also finishing my career and armedwith some of my own, an audiovisual
producer after leaving Canal Thirteen, becauseit was a very, very, very

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frantic rhythm, the rhythm of televisionwork, but I worked with Prgolini,
I was a viewer of the seesyou attack to do it for me that
kind of core there. I thenopened my producer with these friends and worked
many years doing commercial video, advertisinginstitutional videos for television always and advertising now,

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advertising for companies and well, aniche that was starting to wake up.
Today there are many people who dedicatethemselves to that at the time,
not so much, in fact,also produce audiovisuals for these companies, it
was with extremely expensive technology, thatis, a editing room was the same

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as an apartment practically that is,I remember that we put a lot of
money between the three of us andwe had our montage and we made these
videos and we were doing well.And I start with the documentary for the
first time. He made documentary piecesthat are these more advertising pieces, stories

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of what can be, for example, a product or a service or a
video and institutional for a company.But the first film that I make documentaries,
is a film, on request,that hires me to make history,
a family story, a story ofa woman who was about to turn a
hundred years old and that was alreadya documentary required an entire investigation of her

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life, to go out to filmher memories, her passage in Argentina as
an immigrant, of all the epicthat she and her family had developed in
Argentina, having immigrated as very poorpeople and that world. I loved making
that first documentary. I liked itvery much and I really liked the genre

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I was already coming also interested atacademic level studying documentary. I had already
studied in the lin doing nothing filmcourses in the inat taught a teacher I
respect very much, who is agreat producer in France, called Richards Copans,
who has a Leffin DC producer.And he was already teaching at Canal

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Thirteen school and then at Lina andI was always in relationship with him and
them. We also made co-productions for French television, so when we
had to sign in Latin America,we gave a production service here and I
admired very much the work that lefinTC did that they have a huge catalog

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of documentary cinema and what Rijaz compansdid as a filmmaker and producer. But
I had my first chance to makea documentary myself as a director, with
this commissioned documentary and from there camethe idea with these friendly partners to make

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a documentary film producer and make thefirst film we made, which was Leai
Mira. You mentioned it with CarlosWinorati Lucas Maarten. Yeah, and that
' s where we made Ley Mira. Perhaps the antecedent is this film,

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commissioned, this film from a lifestory of a large person. So,
well, how good it would beto be, how interesting it is to
interview people so big that they condensewhat the experience can be with the wisdom
that the years, lucid people andpeople who could also live great historical episodes.

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And from these premises comes the ideaof making the film about Aushite'
s survivors, women who survived thatterrible episode and who were in Argentina and
who could interview and make a filmwith them. And, well, that
' s where he came up todo it and look at your cousin opera

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and that' s where the roadwas to the cinema. Definitely. From
there, yes, yes, Ikept, yes, television and advertising,
which is what I derived less andless from. Yes, I still have
my producer, my partner runs it, all that is advertising and training videos

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and that kind of stuff that fora long time was what gave me what
I lived to eat and then Iwas more absorbed. That' s why
it' s the documentaries that Ilove to make them that you have to

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find the funding to make them,too, you have to find a way
not to be able to devote yourselfto that. In fact, I don
' t do it 100%,but I do spend a lot of time
and it' s a whole learningprocess for me. Not if I already
go for the third movie, butI keep learning there good. For example,
I worked several years with this banstudent, who is a great screenwriter,

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a very important screenwriter of Argentine cinema. Yeah, he' s behind,
for example, wild stories and workingwith him scripts. Well, I
think I did like a master's in script for example, aster in
documentary script and the same thing,work with the mountaineer, with Felder basket,

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which is to set up a documentary. Well, learning all that language,
not that it' s part ofthe experience. I mean, I
really like making documentaries and learning documentarymovies, you don' t think you
' re fictional. So far let' s say it' s the documentary.
I like documentary fiction a lot too, but for now I' m

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still in fact good. I'm thinking how I' m gonna go
on with what other movie, andI already have two more documentary ideas than
fiction, but well, I don' t rule it out. Also in
cinema, I mean, it's a great experience. To perform is
super interesting, very expressive, butin Argentina it is very difficult. Not
to do too. I envy theFrench a lot, for example, what

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I' m telling you is theend DC is a producer who lives thanks
to subsidies and has a catalogue wherewe don' t. They produce fifty
films a year and eighty percent oftheir production pay, cinema, the French
state or buy the film, televisionon, French television, pre- buy

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it give the goose and with thatapproval, the sense that is the link
to French, gives money to produceit. I mean, it' s
a luxury to work like this andthen, well, some other funds they
' re getting, but they easilytend to start the work process with 100

(22:22):
% of the production pays good inArgentina through INCA maybe it was me,
in fact, no, I didn' t work, I worked with a
film with INCA nothing more, butI paid very little percentage of the organization
and then they' re funds thatI' m looking for, no and
my contributions, because I have manyteams in my producer. But that'

(22:48):
s why I say I encourage thedocumentary, I encourage myself to low budget.
I don' t know what itwould be like to produce a fiction
with a lot of budget. Yes, well, today in Argentina it seems
to me that, obviously, thedifferences between the costs of producing fiction and
producing documentary are different. But aswe stand, it seems to me that

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any cost is very high at thistime to produce the cinema. You have
to find it is a skill,what it is to finance, produce and
find financing to make the movies you. You have your work of good these
three documentaries that complete a trilogy thattake as axes the trauma, the identity,

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the Argentine one and the transmission ofthe memory. You' re looking
for other axes for these upcoming jobsthat you' re thinking about or you
' re going to dig deeper into. In that line, you saw that
one, when realized or whatever onedoes later you see it stand at completion

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and you can see back and thereyou understand more where you come from.
It' s easier to look backwhen you' re standing at a point
already in the future. I cantake a tour now. Now I can
understand myself more from everything I didand I certainly understand that I got into

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these themes of the three films becausethere was something very strong that I was
wondering that I was there, thatI was questioning myself, that it was
what happened to these family stories thatare not transmitted, and what about these
great pains, how people get throughthem and can continue to live. Maybe

(24:51):
that was the first question with Leaand Mira. How these women, who
were enslaved, without eating under torture, without sleeping in extreme cold, having
lived the greatest emotional suffering that canbe lived, which is that they killed
the whole family the first day theyarrived at the extermination camp, how they

(25:12):
continued to live, how they survivedthat they were already ninety years old and
I started the documentary with that question. No or, then, that they
are alive and the documentary gives alittle account of that, gives that answer.

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You see them, they laugh,for example, they make jokes,
they laugh one thing as they reveal, a facet of human life. For
me it' s super interesting andit was something I wanted to look for
maybe for my own story. Howit is done to go through the great

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pains, how one can continue tolive and not stay there crushed in suffering.
Yeah, yeah, well, theywere teachers. In any case,
they are teachers of what can bethe terrible and the greatest suffering and pain
a human being can live through.And well, they give the vitality,

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not to say, they keep livesand, besides, they stay alive and
energetically and they continue to live good. The movie shows that because they talk
a lot about it. The secondfilm is the story of family silence.
I, through Lea and Mira,discover that there are many things in my

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family' s history that have todo with Lea and Mira. My family,
too, was in Europe at thetime of Jewish persecution. My grandmother
was also Jewish and my grandmother survived. And why I have so few traces
of Judaism in my life. Whathappened to Judaism, why that wasn'

(27:03):
t transmitted And why wasn' tthat pain transmitted from all that terrible thing
that my grandmother should have lived.I assumed, from everything I learned that
was lived, that they lived atthat time in Europe. So, with
those questions I started saying, butsomething I really wanted to find out.

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Documentaries were a tool for me togo out and find those answers, because
they required a lot of research,a lot of work, a lot of
time. So, well, Iwas supposed to find them after I was
able to go through that whole processand in fact, I was finding it.
There is also a whole like aconversion, a transformation of me as

(27:55):
a character to the documentary and asa filmmaker of the documentaries since the beginnings
s s n n NS. Idiscovered the whole history of my family and
discovered the history of trauma and thesilence of trauma. And how can a
person who has experienced something so traumaticcontinue to live and how does he do
it? What are the gadgets youalso find so as not to lower that

(28:18):
grief to your family, because,in fact, I found in my mother
and in my aunts no record ofpain from my grandmother. So that'
s in the movie, too.Not that encrypted trauma, silenced, but
in spite of everything, also transmitted. There was a thread, a red

(28:41):
thread, that are because things,perhaps with words, are not transmitted,
but they are still transmitted. AndI might go out and put pictures and
words on it. And that's where he showed up. And that
goes back to the two husbands andin the two Maries go on, follow
your family, but follow these themes, follow these transmission themes. Marieta is

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also a woman who emigrates to Argentina, who escape persecution. It is also
a Jewish family that escapes from theHolocaust, from the Joada, who manage
to survive, that comes in Argentina, but with the singularity that when it
comes to Argentina no more talk aboutthe subject. They already come with papers

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they had obtained in a church inthe south of France as Catholics. It
was the way to enter Argentina atthat time, in the year forty-
one. He couldn' t turnhimself in as a Jew. Then people
got papers to come, but theydon' t keep the papers in the
drawer afterwards and go on with thatlife, even if it' s a
secular European Jewish life. They alreadypretend to be Catholic people coming from France.

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It is sent to the daughter Chiquitai e, mariet A, a
school Jesus Mary very Catholic in thecollection And well this is not talked about.
And that is why it is thestory of this secret that Mariette also
persists, first the mother, thenthe Mariette for seventy years does not speak
of this origin that she one daydiscovers that her mother mentions it to her.

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Once when she says these fucking Jews, the mother tells her not to
talk like that about the Jews,because your father is Jewish. She cries
for a month because it' slike I told her, your father is
the devil and then he doesn't talk again and he doesn' t
tell anyone else in the family,his children or his Husband around. And,
well, in the film, shestarts to reveal this already, and

(30:41):
I' ll go along with hera little bit to be able to talk
about it. But also this questionno, why she can' t speak
it today, why she has somuch trouble bringing this out to light that
you' ve been hiding for solong. She says her family and friends
don' t want to know anything. Then why don' t you want

(31:03):
to know anything. How good,all questions, all things that I wanted
to know, that have to dowith this again, with this transmission,
with the things that our ancestors livedand that are reflected in a positive or
negative way or in some way ruggedor silenced. Or, well, what

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' s there in the world oftransmissions and Argentina. Well, because you
read those topics. All of thisis we' re all immigrants in Argentina.
Immigrant family stories. The subject ofJudaism is also hidden. The issue
of anti- Semitism is also beingraised. The films also show that there

(31:47):
is some way to define Judaism.It' s something that I wonder a
lot in my second film and thatMariet wonders too. And Mariet' s
grandchildren are now you. You tellme if he goes that way. I
don' t know if it's the third movie. It' s
going these ways. That' swhy it' s a fourth- forgiveness

(32:10):
door to making a fourth. Let' s see if he goes that way.
But people' s movies don't ah people. Sure, in
this case, well the roots matchan identity, but they' re also
I thought listening to you talk andhaving seen the movies that you also talk

(32:39):
about women in your movies are women' s stories, even if they'
re there men spinning around, no, but they' re stories. There
are some extras. I say there' s a feminist point of view.
If you want to, it seemsthat, naturally, I am feminists,

(33:00):
which is naturally there. It cameout naturally, as I tell you,
it' s not something I thought, but, well, maybe there'
s a lot of women in myfamily. For example, there' s
my grandmother, there' s mytwo aunts, my brother, like a
matriarchy. There' s my grandfather, too, who had his camera.

(33:21):
There' s my great- grandfather, who was an Eminence, who was
a well- known philosopher in Germany. Otto lipman, that' s me.
I don' t take courage fromany of them as characters, but
the women who live with me today, who are alive, are the people

(33:44):
of the family. They' rewomen after this weed. Yeah, I
mean, the female sensitivity is verypersonal and I really like to find it
outside of me. Probably yes,as for example Marietcho entered quickly I became
a friend of hers. Very quickly. It was very easy for me.

(34:07):
He is a person who is ninetyyears old, but despite the generational difference,
we became very friendly and with theEn Wootkowski, who also appears in
the film, also and with myaunt, for example, Irene, who

(34:29):
may be like a character an opponentin the film. I' m very
fond of her, too. Imean, it' s very easy to
relate to women and as a filmmaker, it was also very easy for me

(34:49):
to work with them as characters andreflect that world. No yes, what
is a world, as I say, of people, because I don'
t like it. As a feminist, I don' t like ideas,
identities, the identity of us,women, are people, but they,
in their feminine uniqueness, may haveattribute conditions. Or each one of them

(35:17):
where I can connect very quickly,it turned out very, very, very
good to connect and it seems tome that that intimacy also appears in the
films, that intensity that I achievewith them in the interviews, they as

(35:38):
characters, they move in the cinema, and that is very good, because
it offers the spectator also the possibilityto enter in that intimate environment. No,
yeah, yeah. No doubt,now you had to go through obstacles

(36:01):
or difficulties because of the fact thatgood to make you dedicate yourself to the
cinema, to produce, to realizeby the genre that you addressed, by
your identity, Jewish, by yourorigin, Jewish, rather, by being

(36:22):
a woman. You had those obstacles. Not with the movies. I tore
up very small to work. I' m telling you, I started at
twenty- three, twenty- four. I had my producer and I did
realize it there. There I witnessedas the first some rather macho events,

(36:45):
not like me. I was filmingin companies, in factories and I was
the producer' s mistress, Iwas the director, the producer was perhaps
going with the cameraman, the assistant, the sonidist came driving, I came

(37:07):
to the factory and I showed upbetween the head of the plant to sign
and the head of the plant rightaway. He was thanking me for passing
by a lot. I was talkingto the man I had next door,
that is, I was taking himas an interlocutor to any of the guys
who were silent and looking at mewaiting for me to respond, because they

(37:29):
had no idea of all these thingsthat maybe this plant boss was asking me,
that is, they were my employees. I was carrying them, but
that went into completely masculine worlds inthis thing that I made of company videos,
institutional videos. He was super masculineand good I was there. Perhaps

(37:52):
he also came from working in studyingin France. In France there is machismo,
but they are quite, but atthat time, at least the universe
of cinema or adivisual production also hadwomen. It doesn' t seem to
me that we were few here,that is, a producer like we were
of three women. There wasn't much, I don' t remember,

(38:16):
and besides, working in a wholesector that was the industrial entrepreneur,
where in general they were men.And then I was developing at the corporate
level, my producer. I workedtwenty- five years with my production,
had employees, had 15 employees andbecame an SME company as well. Let

(38:37):
' s say in managing all thatand and I started doing also studying business
administration and doing courses with SME entrepreneurs. And that was also a super masculine
world. There directly, the percentagewas five ten percent of women in I
remember being in a group a wholeyear working with fifteen men and I and

(39:01):
I and there were re and theymade retreats and had to travel because it
was also part of everything we couldshare as experiences of SMEs. And not
there anymore. I didn' tfeel very comfortable traveling to Mendoza with fifteen
men. Yeah, there I noticedhow in my career a much more masculine

(39:25):
world. It seems to me thatthey are much smoother now. There are
now many more women in the worldof work. So much he' s
not an entrepreneur. And that percentageI tell you five ten percent now will
be twenty percent, but not muchmore. Yeah, yeah, it'
s not like things changed either.Equity was achieved 100%, especially tern

(39:49):
in economic terms less yet not equalwork, equal pay. That wouldn'
t be happening. But touch that. I never get chiqué let' s
say maybe so much that I tellyou to come a very matriarchal family and
I mean, I' m notand I feel like I' m a

(40:16):
feminist and I always put on likeanyone else. No, it' s
not that man or woman. Isay I always did what I wanted to
do. You tell me Jewish too. I do, I have Jewish origin,
but I' m also Martinez.My father is also of Christian origin,

(40:37):
so I never stood up. I' m a lay Jew, in
any case an agnostic. I havemy Jewish tranction, but not completely secular.
I didn' t feel maybe bythe last name. I say he
' s here. I also didnot feel anti- Semitism. Well,

(41:00):
it makes movies for a particular audienceor to satisfy your questions, your concerns.
Yeah, basically I think I spendso much time on' cause every
movie I think took me, like, three years at least a long time.

(41:22):
You have to be very interested in, as I tell you in the
questions, that one is going tosolve in the production of the film.
Or that first and then also thedesire to share that of others to see

(41:42):
it as leaving a grain of sand. Well, this is what I learned
and this is what I want youto see. This is what I have
to give you. All this work, all this that I did, is
to hack into common sense, let' s say, and find gray in

(42:08):
common sense. Yeah, good tocontribute to this world. Bol Martínez caplum
Thank you so much for sharing yourexperience with us. Thank you very much

(42:29):
Thank you?