Occultism in The Christian Tradition

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So in the beginning, how did you tell us a
little bit about your spiritual hitch hiking? It seems did
your journey begin at seven or when did your spiritual
journey begin?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
It really did begin at seven Where I started, I
entered into a conscious dialogue with my guardian angel who
would guide me.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
And tell me things that would come true.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
And the funny thing about it is, at age seven,
you know, no one had told me about this.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I just heard it.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
But the voice was so authentic and so true and
so simple. It didn't say a lot of words, it
was just very concise. Did I automatically trust it? Like
it was like I knew my own mother's voice. It
just was so recognizable to me. So all through my
life from that point on, I had a lot of
spiritual experiences that nobody could explain. You know, I talked

(00:50):
to my parents. They thought I was crazy. So when
I got to round twenty, I just started off on
my own journey and I went to India when I
everywhere trying to find somebody that knew what was going
on and what could explain these things to me. And then,
you know, I think I was around thirty eight when
I without cost or effort. I landed on Cyprus, an

(01:12):
island in the far western Mediterranean Sea next to Syria,
and there was a Christian mystic, a master on that island,
and I end up on his doorsteps and he started
teaching me. And he would raise people who had been
crippled for twenty years, and he taught how it worked
and how do you can do it too. So he

(01:34):
trained us and there weren't a lot of people around
him at that time. His name is doctor Steeleonostchlas or Dascolos,
if you have heard of him, and you know it
just a little firing me that he just had those
answers that I'd been seeking for for twenty years. So
I've been seeking the truth for twenty years. But when

(01:55):
I got to him, he started revealing stuff. And then
you started researching the truth. So you start doing it
and researching it, and you know, truth is what's truth.
You know, there's a great range of truth. You know,
there's no one has the absolute truth. What we have
is pieces of relatively relative truth. So it's a spiritual secret.
What we do is we just advance up the ladder

(02:16):
of relative truth. And in spiritual truth, they encompass the
lower truth, worldly truth. Sometimes it's true and then it's
not true, like a planet Pluto, it's a planet, No
it's not a planet.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well yeah it was a planet. No it's not a planet.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
But spiritual truth it just keeps in countries like a
circle enlarging that encompasses everything. So from that point on,
I started researching the truth and I've been a research
for truth for the last thirty five years.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Thanks for sharing that. And when you were a kid,
was there any sort of crisis or anything that brought
your guardian angel or was it just sort of spot
it happened?

Speaker 3 (02:53):
It was actually joy.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
I was feeling so happy and just that was a
place in my life where everything was really wonderful, and
I just wondered, why, why me?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Why was this so wonderful for me?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
And he started explaining what I've been in the past life,
and the good you do carries forward and makes your
future life better. So what that means really is that
we're casting our destiny all the time, both our destiny
and this life, destiny afterlife, and the destiny in the
future life. So we should really learn how it works

(03:25):
so we can create the life, the future and the
destiny we want.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, story your treasures in heaven, as they say in Christianity.
Yeah yeah. And what do you mean by searching for
the truth, because again, like you said, some of us seekers,
we start out, even at a young age, you know,
what's the why are we here? What's the purpose? Why
is there evil? What's on the other side? And all that?

(03:53):
Do you find these questions? Because sometimes I realize maybe
it's more about purpose. Why am I here? And is
there any purpose for me? Was that like for you?
Is this that intersection? Or how did your journey go?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
It was all that, of course, But you know, first
was I was having these out of body experiences.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
I didn't know what that was.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
They were kind of terrifying when you first do it,
because you see your body there but you're not in
the body, And at first that's kind of frightening. But
after a while it does two things. You get used
to it, but it also proves to you there is
no death. The body dies, but you, as a self
awareness continue on. So the fear of death goes away

(04:35):
immediately after you have some really solid out of body experiences.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, exactly. It is an illusion and as important as
a part of life, they're too connected to each other.
Just part of the journey. But for the audience, maybe
could you explain a little bit more about who Dascolos
is and his impact on you.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
He was.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
One of these ascended masters, and he's his purposes. He's
always been coming here, he's always going to stay coming here,
and he does great things when he comes. And this
time around, he was teaching people how to find the
truth and within them, and so he really called it
a thing, an esoteric Christianity. Now he was a Greek,

(05:23):
so in Greek the word esoteric means knowledge from within,
whereas exoteric means knowledge from without, from a church, from
some authority. So he was trying to get everybody to
go within, to find this knowledge, to find this inner knowledge.
And you know, first thing we do is we hear knowledge.
Somebody tells us something, we read it in a book. Well,

(05:43):
that's theoretical knowledge. It could be true, it could be
not true. So what we have to do is start
to live by it and prove it to ourselves. Then
it becomes experiential knowledge that nobody can take from you.
It's like if you've been to Paris and somebody says, oh,
the Eiffel Tower is on the left bank. If you've
been you don't know. If you haven't been there, maybe
it is, maybe it's not. But if you've been there,

(06:04):
you go, no, it's not. It's on the right.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Side of the bank.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
So it's your own experiential knowledge. It is really the
most val valuable thing, and it is something that can't
be taken from you. And knowledge is not wisdom, but
knowledge leads to wisdom. So it's a long, long journey
for all of us, and we have to have our
experiences along the way, and that's how we start to
understand and get the experiential knowledge.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, indeed, then I think this kind of truth. Would
you agree it's hard to express. I mean Jesus had
to use parables. The ancients had to use myths and metaphors.
You can't it's something you can't just say it and
line your language and link your time. Would you agree with.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
That or yeah, pretty much so.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
And you know they also they didn't put it in
parables and stuff, so they didn't get killed because they
had to hype.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
It right may by time six their heads.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh I got some truth that you normal people to
the establishment doesn't have what they do is they kill him.
They made Socrates drink, they poison Akinatan, who did the
same thing, the Egyptian pharaoh, and obviously Christ.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, and the status quo just doesn't want to listen.
They don't want things to change.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
And what are some of the teachings of Daskalis? I
know we are kind of in linear time, but we
have to do our best. Does he have a tradition
or was it was he an innovator or how would
you describe his teachings on the best possible way.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Well, he's he's making a.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
A system that has been in existence for over two
thousand years, but it's been handed down orally. He's the
first one that put it out there in books and
systematize it for us. And it's what is It's the
research of truth. But it's been going on. So each
success in generation of researchers of truth have their own
experiences and added to this body of knowledge.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
So it's cumulating, cumulating.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
But really the first researcher of truth, we have to say,
was the first cave man that looked up at the
knight sky and said.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Where am i orsawi is reflection?

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Who am i that's really the first researcher, and all
human beings are basically researchers who're all trying to find the.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Truth of something.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Right, even look at children, the first thing they do
is they try putting things in their mouth. They're looking
for truth. This man's inner nature to seek the truth.
So in that way we can say this whole lineage
is the perennial lineage, the perennial teachings that have been
coming from the very beginning, and of course it's been
not well presented. You'll find a lot of what Dusklos taught,

(08:44):
not a lot, but parts of it in fragmented terms,
and the Rosy Crucians and the Theosophical Society pieces here
and there, but he's the first one to systematize it
and make it into a body that anybody can apply
to find the truth of anything, material things. Even you
can find and follow the same pattern and find the
truth of material things. Because we're really citizens of two worlds,

(09:05):
the inner world and the outer world, so we have
to be good citizens. We should be looking around at
these crazy times, like you mentioned, to say, what the
heck is going on?

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Why is it life? What's happening?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
And you know that remove If you can do that
and you go deep enough, it's very difficult because we're
being fed as a bunch of confusion, right, But if
you can cut through that and get to something through
you know, logical means you can find some truth that
will give you some comfort during these crazy times.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
So what would you say is the solution? Yeah, these
are crazy times. There's always been times of war and
natural disaster and storms like in your case. I always
feel people, you know, the solution is never going to change.
Look inward and the answers will be there, or at

(09:59):
least the direct actions of your soul, the gods or
anything of where you need to pivot. You would say,
that's why that's wise decision.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, see, can you will find But really that you know,
one of the best things is what Christ said, you know,
seek the truth and the truth will set you free.
He didn't tell us to believe what others tell us
is the truth. He didn't say listen to mainstream media.
Listen the main thing, right, He wanted us to find
the truth for ourselves, because that's the.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
Only way it works really.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Otherwise, if somebody tells you the truth and somebody else
comes along tells you it's the truth, and maybe a
more sophisticated, clever way, you'll stop believing the first one
and believe the second one. So we have to find
the truth ourselves.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
What about the idea of fear, because that's such a
big blockage and it's so personal, you know. I see
other people being fearful of things, and I'm like, oh God,
why do you even worry about it? And I myself,
I'm not fear. I don't fear death or anything, but
I do have my achilles heel. There are certain things

(11:02):
that make me afraid. And my friends are like, what's
up with you? It's everybody has again this achilles heel
of fear, and it's irrational and it's personal. How do
you overcome this? Uh, this affliction of fear? And what
is fear to you?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Well, fear is definitely an elemental and descal is the
main talk of one of the main principles of his teachings,
so that we're creating elementals. Most people call them thought forms. Uh,
these aren't just They're not nothing. They're real things and
they have a living existence and they influence this. If
you ever have really deep fear, man, you feel it

(11:42):
and you start sweating, your stomach hurts, or something's happening
to you tangibly. So this is the influence of an
elemental and the more you feed into it, the stronger
it gets, until it can become just so crippling. That's
what an OCD is. Basically, it's some elements you just
keep feeding out. You can't go out the door because
you're afraid. So the way not to succumb to that

(12:05):
is that you have to face the fear, and you know,
seek the truth.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
So what's seeking the truth? Well?

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Why a might you ask questions? Why am I afraid
of this? What will happen if this thing I'm fearing
comes about? And if you notice something, fear is never
about something in the past. It's always about something in
the future, which means it pulls you out of the
present moment. If you stay in the present moment, you
won't have the fear. If you stay in the present moment,

(12:30):
you won't give in the guilt of the past. Guilt
is in the past, fear is in the future. So
what we really need to do is just stay right
here in the present moment.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Beautifully said yeah, and as they as they say in AA.
One day at a time, do what you can today,
and yeah, do a little introspection. I think waking up
in the morning is sometimes some of the most important times.
If I, you know, before my ego floods my being,
if I do the right you know, prayer, the right meditation,

(13:01):
I see the world with perspective, then my day is
a lot easier to handle.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, good, good advice. Introspection's very good. And you'll notice
something about fear. It often attacks you in the morning
and right as you're falling asleep. And that's the reason
is because you start to lose, you're not as focused,
you're not as aware, so it can come in and
start to bother you right before you even get out
of bed.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, last night, it's such a classic thing. I did
a good meditation, I did my I was my gratitude list,
and I'm laying in bed, cats sleeping, and I'm thinking.
Then this thought comes in, Miguel, what happened to that
box of tea bought at the store? You never you
lost it? And I got out of bed and I'm

(13:47):
like looking in the house. I went out to the
car when it's raining, and then I just but this
time I just had to laugh at myself. I said,
like you said, that elemental that tupa decided to come
and get me at a place that I wasn't expecting, Like,
who cares about a box of tea? I had plenty
of tea in the house. But again it tried to
disrupt me. But these days I'm better because again I

(14:08):
was able to do the breathing. Within five minutes I
was asleep. So these are little tricksters, aren't they, Daniel.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
They are they are, They're they're They're more than just tricksters.
They are really our adversaries. These are the things that
hold us back in life. You know, what would you
do if you weren't afraid of something? It'd be a
lot more to do if we weren't afraid of something
bad happening or us not getting what we wanted.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, it's the old thing, everything you ever wanted. It's
on the other side of fear. So I would agree
with that one too. Bence, what do you think or
do you have a question? I know you're not fearful
to ask questions. I know that definitely not.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Yeah, now, I many years ago I had kind of
an initiation about fear and for a short time, something
lifted fear away from me, and it was an interesting experience.
And actually what lifted the fear away from me is
I was working on a project and I was being
oppressed severely to the point where and I kind of

(15:07):
flipped my fear circuit breaker. But anyway, that's so, I
know what you're talking about. I have had a lesson
about fear. But I was interested in Daniel, what kind
of things in terms of seeking truth are you still
working on? You know, what kinds of questions do you

(15:29):
want still want answered at this stage after your experience
with Tascillos and your own experiences, Well, what still challenges you?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Well, I mean, the number one thing any thinker of
truth is looking for is to know thyself. But what
self are we talking about?

Speaker 3 (15:46):
You know?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
The human beings like a line. It has two points,
one on each end of the line. We have a
divine nature and a human nature. Well, most everybody thinks
their self is this personality created in this lifetime. It
has these fears, it has these strengths, these weaknesses, this
saying they like this thing they don't like, you know,
and that's who we end up thinking we are. But

(16:08):
when you start to have an experience of the higher,
your higher nature, it's called the inner self, you start
to realize that's not the real self. That's what the
Buddha is called the non self. So then you said, well,
what's this other thing? Well, you feel it, we all
feel about. We're not really very clear about what it
is and what it isn't. So to find that we

(16:31):
have to do a lot of work. We have to
do a lot of work. And you mentioned introspection. That
was the number one thing Daskalos top because the secrets
of truth of any system. We're climbing two ladders. We're
climbing the ladder of consciousness. We always talking about raising
our consciousness, but we also have to uplift our self awareness.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
So these are two different things. Who you are as
a self? Now?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
You know in Socrates on the Temple of Delphi, they
had they said it was crate words know thyself, But
really it was from Plato's great uncle, who said that
he was one of the seven wisest sazers of ancient
Greece Salon, and he's the one that gave Plato the
information on Atlantis. And so Plato changed and said know

(17:18):
thy soul, it says thyself, because most people think the
self is this little personality with its strengths and weaknesses.
So he was trying to get the idea out there
that there you trying to know this inner cell.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
That's what the whole work is about.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
And introspection is really the best way to understand that
because right now our outer self and our inner self
is kind.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Of mixed up in most people. So if you.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Introspect, you will start to just be able to disentangle
that outer self from the intercells. Say, oh, here's the
lower self. It's full of fear, it's got anger, it's
got these weaknesses. But this inner self is one thing
is stable. And when you find that stable point in you,
you found that inner self.

Speaker 4 (17:59):
Which brings you to the question, Okay, if you go
deeply enough, do you basically find oneness and unity with
the Creator?

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Absolutely, because you can't. You can't know yourself without knowing
something of God. You can't know something of God without
knowing something of yourself. Because we're an offspring, right, All
the enlightenments have said that we're a child of God.
So what's that mean? Well, what's born of a god
is a god? What's born of a horse is a horse, right,
So we're trying to find this this thing, and we've

(18:31):
had so many masters on the planet saying basically the
same thing different ways in their own time into their
own people. But it's always about going back to the
self and this source.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Right, Yeah, I've noticed that.

Speaker 4 (18:46):
But what what other creatures are like consciousnesses that have
you encountered? Non human consciousness? For example, you mentioned angels, right,
a holy guardian angel. What do you think the structure
you know from what you've experienced so far is of
the universe. You know there's humans and there's animals, of course,
but what other entities have you encountered.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
It?

Speaker 2 (19:13):
It starts out with this oneness of God and Romano
ma heart she mentions, God called it beings beings. That's plurality,
isn't it. Then we have origin one of the early
Christian fathers. He called it being as God being us.
That's what it's called it absolute infinite being us, which

(19:34):
means God's composed is not the only thing, but God
is composed of a number of infinite spirit beings, never born,
never died, and when it comes time for them to
express themselves, they project a spirit ray. This is a
teaching a spirit ray out through one of the archetypes,
eternal archetypes and the Divine plan. One of them is

(19:57):
an archangel. The other one is called the human being
the human idea. So we are basically brothers with the
archangels because their ray has passed through the archangelic idea,
our rays continue on and become humanized. Now we have
a personality. The arch angels don't have a personality. They

(20:19):
are one with God all the time, so they can't
say anything that God can say. They don't have free
will even But that's it. That's the only two beings.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Now.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
There's lots of other entities, but they're not eternal beings.
The archangel and the human being is the only eternal being.
And what are extraterrestrials? Human beings that have evolved much
much farther than we have. You take a planet, maybe
it's a million years older than Earth.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
What are we going to look like in a million years.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
If it's a planet around a red drawarf, it could
be a billion years older than we are. What if
life was on one of those planets that had evolved
a billion years more? They're not going to be spaceships,
like they're not going to need the stuff we need.
Let's just say that they're at a totally different level.
So we really have archangelic beings, extraterrestrials, which are just

(21:11):
human beings, and then the human beings as we know
them on Earth. But you know there's other planets where
human beings aren't as advanced as we are, and others
that are way more advanced than we can even comprehend.
So the entities though, now these are just something different.
Before those spirit beings are classified as an archangel or

(21:33):
human being, their first gift they're given is free will. Well,
some of them do rebel and choose not to pass
through these ark and type windeas and these are called
the fallen ones and they drop and anything they create
is called a true demon. Okay, but human beings are
doing the same thing. When we create hatred, we think hatred,

(21:55):
we're creating our own little human and nature devil, really,
and it goes out and it strikes on that person
and it tries to harm them. If they vibrate in
harmony with it, then they might feel it. If they're innocent,
it'll come back to us. So there's plenty of entities,
and these really are elementals. But now I'll try to
think about an entity that's been worshiped for thousands and

(22:20):
thousands of years, like one of the old gods, like
like Shiva. It's a beautiful god, but it's an element Well,
man have created that based on a divine idea. But
the men have created it, and so they prayed to it.
They've worshiped to it for centuries and centuries and centuries.
Now it's a living entity, but it is a big one, right.
And the same thing about with the I hate to

(22:46):
mention his name, but the the ball from the old days.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
And what's what's the other name? They call it Madouke?

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
So those guys have been sacrificing babies and worshiping this
demon for a long time. Even Plato said it was
going on in Atlantis. So can you imagine that's like
what twenty thousand years? What a long time, right, and
somebody energizing that thought for so long, a lot of
people doing it and worshiping them blood sacrifices. That's made

(23:18):
a huge demonic entity and it's still around today and
it's still.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Being worshiped today.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
But on the other side, you know, you have the Shiva,
which is basically considered a benign entity, and they they
people who worshiped him really get help from him. But
it's an entity, it's it's not any eternal spirits. It's
just something humans have created. That's a lot to be too.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
Right now, like an eggargar, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Yeah, so yeah, so what was my next question was? Yeah,
the notion of evil, but you answered it. But at
the end of the day, it is interactive. We give
it power, we don't give it power inside or outside
our heads.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
That's right, that's right. But that evil, what we call evil,
is really just what the stuff we don't like, well,
I like the Hindus, they call it. It's either knowledge
or ignorance. So ignorant evil is really just ignorance. And
the extraterrestrials that are millions of years ahead of us

(24:20):
or whatever, hundreds of thousands years ahead.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Of us, they have gone past the notion of evil.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
So when they see they come to Earth and they
see what's happening here on Earth, they see men harming
each other and torturing each other, they just see it
as undeveloped good and eventually we all get past this
idea of them versus us and all this creation of
bad and good things, and we won't go past the

(24:47):
idea of something evil. Right now, we look around and
we can see lots of evil going on. We can't
say the people are evil that are doing it because
they didn't create themselves. God created them. So it's not
the people, but it's what they've done to themselves. It's
not something God's great. It's something they've done to themselves.
And it's the same principle as light and shadow, right,

(25:07):
what's shadow the absence of light?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Right?

Speaker 3 (25:13):
You take.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I was in Egypt one time when they opened one
of the tombs. It hadn't been opened for thousands and
thousands of years, and it's black and they open it
up and the light goes in, and where's the shadow going?
It stops existing. So in that sense evil, it ultimately doesn't.
It doesn't have an ultimate existence, has a temporary existence
down here in this world.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
But yeah, it's a very big subject. I no, really
well said. And what you say reminds me of so much.
You know, the main topic of this show, which is
the Gnostics. The Gospel of Philip says the mother of all.
The mother of all sins is ignorance. And the gnostics
repeat what you say that Jesus and the Gnostics, whether

(25:59):
it's Gospel of Thomas, it's always self knowledge, go within,
look past the illusion. So and some have said, Daniel,
the Gnosticism is simply an inner Christianity that you know,
got repressed or hidden. And I don't know if you
want to say it's the true Christianity. Some people say
it's just a different taste of christian Some people are

(26:21):
not ready to They're happy with beliefs and faiths and
Sunday worship and hoping for the best. When they die,
you can you blame them, Daniel, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Was hijacked and you know the three hundreds by Constantine.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Basically everything seems to get hijacked on this planet.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
You're right, governments, religions and everything.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Yeah, it's interesting, But that's part of the plan, though,
isn't it. I mean, you can't in terms of looking
at the unity of everything when if you believe in
the you know, evolutionary you know DNA story about how
humans were grown up from smaller organisms, it's like from

(27:08):
the very beginning, it's kind of a random adaptation kind
of thing where there's there are there are forces of destruction,
and then the forces of creation have to figure out
ways around the forces of destruction, and the destruction is
usually what we call evil and so and that's where

(27:31):
suffering is a sign that, hey, destruction is coming so
that you can avoid it. And so it's all part
of this big plan. That's the way I see you. Well,
what do you think about that concept?

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Absolutely, suffering actually serves us in the sense of wakes
us up. You know, this wakes us up to the
illusion to what's been going on, and that's it can't
be better described.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
And just look at what's happening today.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
If you look beyond mainstream media, you'll see what's really happening.
And people are waking up in big groups, I think,
more than I've ever seen in my lifetime. And they realized, well,
we've been asleep and this thing's been going on behind
about being without our noticing. We've got to do something right.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, for sure, for sure. So you seem pretty hopeful
about where we are. It's a time of opportunity, you would.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Say, absolutely, yes, yeah, And I'd say it's one for me,
it's it's really, I can't imagine it. I mean, to me,
it's almost like the opportunity when Christ was around. What's
happening now is like almost that kind of level of magnitude.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, but I think the difference is crisis telling us
there ain't no saviors coming. You have to be your
own savior this time around. Yeah, what about the idea
of We talked about fear and overcoming fear and beyond fear.
Of course, one of the issues today is the idea

(29:02):
of trauma. We all have either a you know, past
life trauma, childhood trauma. The buddhas that just being born
is traumatic because we're thrown into selfhood and we're like, oh,
what's this? I got skin and gums and all this stuff.
But trauma seems to be as people are understanding, it's
not something you just get over or time heals all wounds.

(29:25):
It's timeless, just you know, the pain is timeless. How
do you approach the idea of past life traumas and
life traumas to heal those because when they come up,
they can they they they inflate fear, They give us
health issues, addictions and so forth, and it's very invisible.

(29:46):
We're not sometimes conscious of our traumas because we suppress them.
How do you what do you think of trauma? Daniel? Oh?

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, it's very real experience. And you know some people
have all those trauma all is so bad as about
I'm gonna kill myself. Well, the trauma's not there to
so you kill your material body. It's there to wake
you up. So instead of trying to kill the material body,
and the trauma is not usually located on the material body.
It's psycho panoetical, it's mental and emotional, right, so killing

(30:15):
your material body just means you don't have a material body.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
It doesn't get rid of the emotional mental trauma.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
So you take that with you into the next afterlife
we'll call it. So yeah, So the best thing is
that like, okay, if I'm suffering with this trauma, I
need to break free, I need I need to come
you know, try to understand it and make peace with
it or in some way not to be under it.
You know, we're meant to be the masters, so we

(30:41):
have to come up over the thing that is troubling us.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
And the best way to me is that you face it.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
You know, you have to turn and face it because
if you're not facing the Son of Truth, what are
you looking at? You're looking at your shadow because the
sun is behind you, the truth is behind you. It's
casting the shadow and you're you're related to Oh that's
the reality.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
No, turn and look at the light.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Amen, that's for sure. That's for sure. And yeah, the
teachings of Dascolos again, you know, people can see the
perennial religion from the Hindus to the Buddhas, to the Gnostics,
to other inner mystical Christian sect and so forth. But
one of the figures, again we love to talk about

(31:27):
on the show, a giant among giants, I would say,
is Rudolph Steiner. What are some of the ideas that
you incorporate or Dascolos incorporate from Steiner.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
You know, I'm not a deep student of Steiner's. Dascolos
respected him. He came to Dascolos a couple of times
after he had died, really.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
And he knew him.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
But I haven't really personally gone into the system. But
although I know some good Steiner people, and you know,
they're lovely, they're lovely and they've definitely been benefited by
the work.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I mean Steiner of course
was very instrumental and uh, the idea of sort of
a mystical conscious Christ that we all have within us
and all that. He really promoted that even after he
broke away from theosophy and so forth. So what do
you what, what do you think about ascended Masters again?

(32:23):
I'm writing a I'm releasing a book next week on
Elvis and it shows a lot of his occult parts. Daniel,
and he was very much into acended master. He was.
He was very much in the theosophy and Steiner and
all that.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, he was hoping he might be one and he
might wake up to it.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, the sended Masters are real.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
And as it says and Leadbager's work a book, Inner Life,
you know, there's like seven of them from this lineage
that comes on the planet at any time in a
physical body, and three of them come out and show
themselves and four of them don't.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
And then he says in is I've seen it.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
In the nineteen oh eight publication of inter Life, he
says one will be born on Cyprus in four years, well,
four years later December twelfth to nineteen twelve. Gasklos was born,
So you know, it seems pretty out. There's nobody else
that I've heard from Cyprus that has anything close to Deuskluss,
So I believe these talking about dusk Laws now when

(33:30):
you look at the book though, it's been reprinted in
nineteen seventeen, so it says and one was born on Cyprus,
but the early one said one will be born in
four years, and four years later he was born. So
they were feeding information into the theses.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
You know, Ledbetter in the sand and Blobski.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Who are the other ones.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
One of them is named Master Hilarian.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
He was in Syria at the same time Doskolos was alive,
but he's not there now. And the other I don't know,
but I heard, yeah, he's actually Saint Paul. He's Saint
Paul has come now they call him Hilarium. But Dascalos
did say. I was sitting in a lesson in nineteen

(34:21):
ninety one and Daskalo said, a new one has been
born in America and he's he's a Native American. He's
being protected by the elders. He's not going to come
out for a while. He just dropped that one day
in the class. So I've tried to find him. I
haven't been able to find him out.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Then you'll have to continue scrolling down LinkedIn. Maybe it'll
be on his LinkedIn profile, although I doubt it so.
The idea of a sended message sometimes I think it's
like these beings they come down from heaven. But basically
it's very much like the Nastaic idea of the christ
consciousness and the Buddhist idea. You have the body shot,

(35:00):
but you're still born in the flesh, and you're awaken
too your past lives and your awareness. I mean, that's
it's not complicated, right, Daniel, it's been It's an old concept.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, it's just somebody who's become self realized, which means
Christ's consciousness. So what happens is this is going to
happen to every human being. It gets for self realize.
They go and it's like they could take their liberation,
but they don't because they realized. By this time, they
realize every person on earth is us, and you can't leave.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Your children down to die in a flood.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
You'd come down to try to save them, right, So
they just keep coming back and coming back, and the
good news about that is they start to awaken more
and more people, and then more and more people get awaken,
they start to come back. For pretty soon this thing
starts to accelerate and the whole planet's shifting consciousness really rises.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
It's going to take a long time.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
But yeah, and I'm sure it's just not just our planet.
I mean to you know, there's other dimensions planet. There's
a lot of work to be done to I guess
as the capitalist as to heal the universe that Takumu
lan wake everybody up. Yeah, what do you think Ben's
any question from you or any super chats?

Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, we did have a super chat without a question.
Todd Klatt gave us one which was which was very nice,
thank you, thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
And I was.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Wondering, uh, yeah, what what do you think about other universes?
Do you think in the in the vast scheme of
the cosmic divine existence, there are other universes with other rules?
And are there universes where there isn't so much conflict?
You know, peaceful universes or like the gnostic pleroma for example.
You know what would be like to exist in the

(36:52):
universe like that in a pleroma?

Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yeah? Well, I mean when we say universe.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Most people think of the three dimensional universe, but there
are many verses and they're governed by different laws. And
the third dimensional universe, the primary law is cause and
effect karma.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
What you sow so show you reap.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
That's what's diving everything that's happening to us and happening
to everybody. But when you get to the next level,
which we call the psychical the Hindus called the astral,
that's really the fourth dimension, and it has the different rules.
It still has law of cause and effect, but it
has a primary thing is the law of attraction and repulsion.

(37:32):
So you tend in this universe, you tend to push
away what you don't like and pull to you what
you do like. So in that sense, it's a great
preparation for reincarnation because it calms people down. Here we
get what we don't like all the time, right, and
we have law of causing attraction and repulsion here too,

(37:54):
But it's the primary law in the fourth dimension. And
then there's the fifth dimension, what we call the noetical
world or what the Hindus call the mental world, and
beyond that there's a no etic you know. So there's many,
many levels, and the higher up you go, the more
you feel like your true self, and the less you
don't have to pay bills. You know, you don't have

(38:15):
to do all these things you don't like that we
don't like on earth. So you get to time to
explore what you do like what does And you know,
most people don't even bother with spirituality on the other side.
If you're really strong into it on this side, you'll
still keep studying on that side. But because the law
of the cause, the law of attraction and repulsion, pushes

(38:37):
away those disliking things.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
You're having a great time.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
In the thirties, they used to call this place summer
Land because it was like getting out of school.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
For the summer. It was so free and easy.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Oh I remember those days.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
Yeah, it's almost like we're batteries in this three dimensional world,
you know, the energy conservation and so forth, the conservation
of energy, the fact that you know, we grow old
because kind of our battery goes down. But you know,
maybe in the other realms, like you know, the higher realms,
that you don't have that limitation where there's a limitation

(39:12):
on you know.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
How long how long you exist?

Speaker 4 (39:15):
I mean existence is it inherently eternal, right, and so
are Vehgan kind of like.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah, you realize you're eternal, but yeah, you're right, even
just on the next level, on the psychic complane after
our material body dies. You know, Steiner said, you stay
there about half the time you lived on Earth.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
But it's not fixed at all.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I know some people that have been there three three
hundred years. I know the Disko said he knew one
myssic who could come back in ten months. He used
to come back in two years. Gospel has said, but
it's it's just subjective. It's what what do you want.
It's a cause of effect, I mean attraction and repulsion,
So it's it depends on different people.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
Yeah, and you're I think you're referring to time and
the malleability of time beyond our three dimensional universe, where
we're kind of like it's kind of like we're in
the car wash. You know, you put your car in
the car wash and dragged your car through.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
You can't do anything about it. I was there yesterday.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yes, time losing its meaning higher and higher, these higher
and higher dimensions until you're in this upper no edical,
which is the threshold of the eternal now, and I
mean you're internal now and it's like what there.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Is no time? Time is not.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
How about the multiverse? What do you think about the
concept of multiverse?

Speaker 3 (40:41):
I don't really.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I believe in it, but not so much of the
way people are talking about it. I mean, there's a
multiverse going on all the time, but there's not like
you're not living five different other lifetimes.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
You're living this lifetime.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
You could live as any different way you wanted to,
and you can change and have a different life even
on this world.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
It's harder.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
But I don't believe that we're living in multiple bodies
simultaneously in different places. I haven't seen the evidence of
that anyway, and I haven't seen anybody that any of
the high teachers that I've studied speak of it like that.
But in the sense that we're creating our own reality

(41:18):
all the time, that we're all in our own multiverse.
You know, right now, we're talking and people are listening
and everything, and not one of us has the same
idea or view of what's happening.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
So we're all creating our own reality. So and that's
where way, you know, we're all creating our own universe
for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
But tell maybe a little bit about the program and
the organization you're in. What is the Pyramid Spiritual Center Daniel.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Well, it's just a center I built here in Indiana,
and we have you know, gatherings and workshops and everything,
and it's a place to come and really like study
more deeply and to learn in a way you can't
learn by.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Reading the books or here.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
You know, I do podcasts and things and YouTube stuff,
but when you're here in person and you get the dynamic,
the dynamic is so different, and there's lots going on
at multiple levels here, so you can get more personal training.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Yeah, Oh, Indiana, that's not too far from where or
I am. I'm in northern Illinois, so yeah, I might
have to check out. I always love these these sort
of experiences and teachings. I think Chicago has become such
a wasteline for spiritual rewards personally, but there are other places.

(42:44):
Get to see other places in the Midwest that have Yeah,
of course, the Theosophical Society is in Wheaton, which I love.
Have you been there, Daniel, No, I haven't.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Wheaton, Illinois. Oh I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
You know that that's where she built it. Yeah, the
original and journel and HP. Yeah. Yeah, so I'll be
doing an Elvis presentation actually in a couple of weeks,
so talking about the book. But yeah, very spiritual place,
great place for meditation, contemplation. They have classes, yoga, retreats,

(43:21):
all that, and yeah, it's been around since what nineteen
early twenty century somewhere, So yeah, definitely check it out.
Check it out and do what kind of spiritual modalities
do you present or do you sort of work with
each individual to help them get to where they need
to get.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Well both, but we you know, we do seminars, we
pick I pick a theme and we create meditations. My
wife does the meditations and I do the teachings, and
so it's always on a theme and we go through
a different theme.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
But then people get to ask questions and we.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Spend time with them personally, and so, you know, do
the best we can to guide them as they need.
And it's amazing what happens is the person itself pulls
out the answer, pulls out the thing they need to hear.
When we were at Deasklosis, Deskalos would just pick up

(44:18):
the vibrations and thoughts of the people who were sitting
there and he would just create the lesson accordingly, and
people go, oh.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Answer my question.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
I've been thinking I've been having for so long, and
it sort of works that way now, although it's not
it's not like I pick up thought forms. It's just
that the people themselves, their need, pulls out what they
are looking for. You know, the thing we're seeking is
always seeking us too.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
So yeah, exactly, I think, say Francis of ASSISI, what
you're looking for is what is looking? I love that quote.
But the other question I would have to he is
what about those who, for example, can't get to you,
or can't get to the theosophical site, or can't get
to Cyprus. Obviously, you get I get emails from people

(45:06):
there's somewhere in the boonies in northern Florida or in
the desert of New Mexico, and they want some sort
of spiritual experience. They want to evolve, They want you know,
what we're looking for. What advice do you have for
them or what techniques they can use to Well, there's
get them on the road.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Massive amount of stuff on the researchersotruth dot com and
dot org websites. There's just a massive amount you can
study it and it's free.

Speaker 3 (45:34):
There's lots of free resources.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
We have the YouTube channels, Instagram, all that kind of stuff.
And interestingly enough, we've just partnered with this other group
this year who are a big group out of England
and they build a state of the art, world class
spiritual center and they've invited us to do our programs
there and they pay for everything.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
There's no cost at all.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
They house you, they feed you gourmet organic food, and
we have similarms and there's no cost. So it's just
if you can get to it, you know, there's no cost.
So that's a new thing we're doing this year.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Yeah. Lighting that's lightened dot Acorn.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, that's wonderful, wonderful. Any I mean, any advice? I
guess we go back to self knowledge. Right when people
ask me, I said, shut up, sit down and breathe,
And people are like, well, how does that work. It's like,
if you want to be in a place where it's
just you and you sitting down and breathing, that's it.

(46:35):
You're not you know, you're not on your phone, you're
not what thinking about things, and you just sit down
and breathe that you are with yourself yes, the thoughts
will come, but then you'll realize that the thoughts are
like it's Carly Simon said in your so vaying clouds
in your coffee. They're not real. They're just sort of
going around and you sit down and you breathe, and

(46:55):
eventually you're like, oh, this is who I am. It's
it's very different. It's very wordless. I mean, so I
always advise people just meditate. What about you anything else
beyond meditation or tell us on meditation?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Well, the meditation is very important.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
We have five principles five disclos called them Golden key.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
One is observation.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
You've got to pay a lot of attention to what
you're doing, but that's happening is in.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
The material world.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
If you're a sculptor, you have to observe how you're
sculpting going to come out right, So we have to
observe why are we reacting, what's happening with us? And
the other one is concentration. Well, to do a good meditation,
you have to learn to concentrate. And concentration is focused
attention without any tension. So you have to learn how
to focus without making yourself tense. And it's just like

(47:44):
you know you were talking about, sit down and breathe.
It's like the truth is everywhere, It's in us, it's
all around us, but we're not seeing it because we're
so distracted where our minds so disturbed. It's like looking
at a lake, you know, if you if you the
lake has absolutely calm, you can see the trees reflected.
But if the lake is disturbed, the trees are distoryed.

(48:04):
You can't tell what you're looking at. It's the same
thing with us. We have to get ourselves calm, and
breathing is the number one way.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
To do that.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, and we can see better then we can hear better.
We can we can hear the inner guidance. We can
also see what to do better. But we have to
calm ourselves in we have to turn off the cell phones,
silence our emotions, like our phones silence our thoughts, and
then what do you see.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Reality? You see yourself. Yeah, I agree with the hundred percent,
And of course I have I'm no guru expert, but
has really immensely helped. I mean again, I can fall
asleep easier, which in this day and age, is a
victory for millions of Americans and Westerners just falling asleep.
But it is a gift I think too, Daniel. Also,

(48:51):
listening to my body, I realized my body as the
saying says, the body don't lie, and the body has
a lot of the answers because we have really scientifically,
we have neurons in our gut. I mean, it can
tell us what the problems are because that's where we
store trauma, fear, and many other answers. What do you
think of that?

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's somatic knowledge.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
I guess they call it of the body of the body.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
But you know, beyond what you have to ask yourself
when trauma, what's been traumatized? You know, sometimes there's physical
trauma from an accident or whatever, but it's it's.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Mental and emotional.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
But in our teaching is what you do when you meditate,
you go beyond the emotional body, You go beyond the
mental body, and that self is not traumatized. The little self,
the personality self is what traumatized. So if you can
get out of that personality self and identify with the
inner self and connect with it, then you're beyond the trauma,

(49:54):
and from that place then you can really really start
to sort out your life because most people try to
sort the problem out at the level they created the problem, right,
and that's harder to do, so.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
You really need this higher advantage.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
And the same thing about like we got troubling emotions, Well,
the emotions don't sort themselves out by themselves. You have
to go higher to mentally to kind of see it
from a higher perspective.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
And that's true all the way through this.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
So you get to the point where you're the inner self,
you're the christ consciousness, and there's nothing to sort out
because you're fine at that level.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah, beautifully said, Beautifully said, well, awesome. And you also
have your book Diving with the Whales. That's tell the
audience about that, and I'll put it on.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
I created a series.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
When I met Dascalos, it was like meeting just a
super giant, you know. So I was trying to use
a metaphor that could carry some meaning of meeting something
so much bigger than yourself. So I wrote Swimming with
the Whale, which is the introductory workbook to it, Diving
with the Whale, Swimming Lessons with the Whale, with their
his practices that he teaches, and finally the last one

(50:59):
I just relationships called you are the whale because ultimately,
when you meet a guy like just this is where
you're going, so which teaches us.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
Something else about where we've been.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
When you meet somebody who's really annoying or you can't
stand them, maybe we were in that place one time.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
So it helps cut.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
The judgment when you realize we've all come through these
layers and we're all headed for the same destination.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
It's just where we are on the path.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
No, there you have it. Definitely get the books if
you guys want the exercises and so forth, highly recommended.
And yes, I do have the show notes here if
you want to check it out and events. Any last
questions before we wrap up with this fantastic chat.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
Yeah, are you familiar with Alan Watts? What do you
think of his teachings and how they relate to what
you've you've learned over the years.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
You know, I have the sudme deeply, But from what
I've heard of his coats and some of the stuff
I've read, he was brilliant.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
He was very b him.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
But the thing that struck me funny is I I
heard him say that he used to have to drink
alcohol before you go on and talk to get the confidence.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
I never knew that.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
The yeah, he had a relationship with the bottle.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
I didn't know that in some of the comments he makes.
I like him.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Are you fine?

Speaker 4 (52:22):
I would say follower, But for many years I enjoyed
him very much, you know, and especially in my younger
years in the eighties, kind of helped helped me, helped
me wake up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Yeah. Nice, it was.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
It wasn't an internet, so yeah, I think you could
get Alan What's.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
What on the radio and right, yeah, I have a
pile of cassette tapes.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
You remember alien technology, and now you can get him
on the web. Yeah, so it is available. Oh yeah,
he's wonderful. Yes, he did have a drinking problem. He
did die an alcoholic, which is unfortunate. But no guarantees.
We are happy at the end of our journey. So

(53:12):
it's just the world we is well awesome. Anything else
you want to tell the audience, any other websites or
courses coming up that they need to know or that
you would like to promote, Daniel.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Oh, just you know we're doing just check out the
researchers of truth dot com.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
We have rell list programs there.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
If they want to sign up to the mailing list,
they can do that on the Researchers of Truth dot
com and be posted about what we're doing. We're doing
all kinds of lots of new things happening this year.
The things are really expanding for us this year.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Good good, Yeah, we need it, and it means people
are listening, so certainly good luck with that. I really
enjoy your message and what you're doing, but we are
at the end appreciate those in the chat