May 11, 2025 • 34 mins
Six Flags/Cedar Fair’s first post-merger casualty is Six Flags America, erasing 70 full-time and 700 seasonal jobs and $3.5 million in local tax revenue—freeing capital for “marquee” investments elsewhere. At the same time, Marriott’s Gaylord resorts are turning their glass atriums into mini-comic-cons with a DC-branded summer slate, headlined by a 17,500-sq-ft lantern trail of 24-ft heroes, to lure families who might skip a theme-park trip. Philip and Scott ask whether strategic portfolio pruning and shoulder-season IP pivots are the new survival play as rising rates have already killed Sacramento’s planned $300 million Elk Grove zoo. Listen for the implications—and catch the gloves-off bonus chat on Patreon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From our studios this week in Los Angeles and Tampa.
This is Green Tagged Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip.
I'm joined as always by my wonderful co host Scott Twinson,
a Scott Swords and Crew Development. On Green tag we
break down the top theme park news each week for
business professionals and discuss why it matters to you all.
And this week, I think we're going to start with
a story that made the rounds last week quite around,
(00:23):
but of course we were sidetracked with FanFest. But we'll
talk about this week, which is that six Flags America
and Maryland is going to close at the twenty twenty
five season. The company will shutter the five hundred acre
Bowie Park and Hurricane Harbor in November twenty twenty five,
putting the site up for sale. The closure cuts around
seventy full time in seven hundred seasonal jobs and a
(00:44):
racist three point five million in annual county tax revenue.
The CEO site's post merger portfolio management as six Flags
and Cedar Fair shift capital to higher returns. We did
extensive coverage on the six Flags and Cedar Fair murger previously,
and we talked previously about how you should expect this
type of thing, which is really normal. It's really just
(01:07):
looking at underperforming areas and getting rid of them. And
especially in the context of what we talked about the
last several shows, which is universal's how much capital they have.
I mean, this is effectively them reducing an underperforming park
and taking that capital to reinvest it in other parts
(01:27):
of the portfolio that could have a higher yield. So
I think this is a harbinger maybe of other choices.
Expect more. I think you could expect more regional parks
to face the idea of redeveloped or reinvest and resell
or what they're going to do with that. But Scott,
what do we think is this?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, when this first came out, the first thing that
people kept saying is, oh, look, they just got Geaga linked,
because when Geaga Lake went away, they found that they
could actually earn more money by selling the land off
to developer for housing. And I think that's what's happening here.
(02:07):
But I think it's also and it's not just underperforming parks.
It's also when you have two behemoths in any industry
and they come together, they want to make sure that
they're not competing with one another. So because it just
ends up what was you know, healthy competition now becomes well, wait,
we're we're splitting our splitting our potential profit. So they
(02:33):
want to make sure that they're they're going through the
portfolio and saying what parks are can can can we
take the rid of this part? Can we take that
audience and shift them over here slightly? Or can we
shift them over there? And you know that this park
has kind of a unique history too. It also, I
mean it actually started as a wild animal park and
(02:54):
then didn't become a theme park until much later in
its existence. So it's it's one of those things that
I think you're right, Philip. I think we're going to
see more of this in Six Flags. I think there's
gonna be a lot more scrutiny and sharpening of pencils
to figure out, you know, how can we make the
overall company more profitable. And I have seen a couple
of people once this announcement came out saying, you know,
(03:17):
people actually asking the question, was it a good idea
for her Fare and six Flags to actually merge, because
we haven't really seen any positivity come from it. And
I just remind people it's it's like it's gonna it's
gonna move. It's gonna move like an aircraft carrier, not
like a speedboat. Yes, so it's gonna be it's gonna
(03:40):
be slow, it's gonna be steady. It's way too early
to tell whether it was a good idea, bad idea,
neutral idea. So this is this is one of the things. Now,
I will say I also had many, many friends since
I came from as I grew up in the Chicago
Land area going oh my gosh, Great America is closing. No,
six Flags Great America and Gurney, Illinois is not closing.
(04:02):
This is six Flags America, which is in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So just so well, I think, you know what, what
are the takeaways I think for smaller operators about this
or is there any I mean, is this news that
they really need to care about or what would you
say their takeaways?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I think it's well, I just think it's a it's
a good reminder that you need to set and achieve
your financial goals. Yeah, and not just not just accept
the fact that you know, like if you are a
park that is is under the umbrella of a much
larger corporation that they're going to protect you forever. They're
(04:42):
going to evaluate, and it's usually when this kind of
merger takes place that they reevaluate everything.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I going back in time having worked for Bush Gardens
when it was when it had multiple parent companies. Each
time there was a new parent company, there was a
change in the way that things were done. There was
a reevaluation of the way things were done, and they
were then aligned with the new parent company's way of
(05:11):
doing things. It is something that happens all the time.
It is nothing to be feared, but it is something
to be recognized that it will it will happen, and
so if there are listeners who are currently working for
other flag sparks, just be aware. And I will be honest,
(05:34):
it would surprise me if this came as a surprise
to anybody who was working at six Flags America. They
knew it was going to happen. Like I said, things
move very very slowly when these kinds of things happen.
The fact that it's being announced now so that they'll
get all the way through the end of this season,
they will be able to conclude this season and then
it will go away. It gives everybody the opportunity to
(05:57):
make the appropriate changes in their lives. Nothing is forever,
and I think that's important to recognize. And so, once again,
for all those people who this does impact on a
personal and direct level, the same mantra that I've used
in my own personal career and continue to share with
(06:18):
everybody else, don't panic, Just pivot, find a new way
make your adjustments. I know that there are anytime there
are closures, layoffs, changes, other companies in the industry recognize
that this is happening and they start looking to those
people to go, wait a minute, we could really use
(06:39):
somebody who has that skill set for us. I know
we did that with casting and staffing here in Florida.
When Lego Land let go of the majority of their
entertainment folks, we immediately held auditions the next day. We
basically invited all the people that we knew and said, hey,
(07:00):
you know, it's not a full time gig, but we
got a seasonal gig coming up here in Tampa. Maybe
it's something you might be interested in. So it's it
made for those of you who may be directly impacted. Again,
don't panic. The industry knows that you're there, and good
work gets good work. So if you are in high
standing in your current position, it puts you in good
(07:20):
stead for potential new opportunities. But I think it's important
to recognize this is not you know, there are people
who will say, oh, this is so unfair. I've worked
here all my life, I grew blah blah, blah blah.
It's a business. It is a business, and it's important
to recognize that. The only thing you can do is
you don't necessarily have to like the change, but you
(07:41):
have to embrace the change. You have to make sure
you know, if you've ever if you've ever received an
email from me, you will see that my signature line
is embraced the day, and that happened when I was
no longer with Bush. Because each day brings something new
and gives you the opportunity to continue your career, maybe
not in exactly the direction that you thought you were going,
(08:03):
but it gives you the opportunity to figure out, what
can I do today that's going to make my job
better and just recognize this kind of thing is going
to happen. You know, businesses are going to come and go,
and the advantage of being under a big corporate umbrella
is that you have a lot of buying power. There
is some protection, there is some insulation from some smaller variations,
(08:26):
but it also means that when they go in and
look at all of the parts and pieces, they have
to make sure that the giant umbrella is also being
taken care of. So I'm sorry for the people that
this impacts on a frontline level, but again, don't panic.
This is a big industry and there's a lot of
(08:47):
new stuff out there and a lot of people who
are looking for people with your skill set. So think
of the industry as a macrocosm, not an individual park,
and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well that's a great segue, and especially the pivoting section
of that, don't patches pivot. Let's talk about how the
Gaylord hotels are powering up with DC this summer. So
Gaylord's four supersized convention resorts will trade glass atriums for
glass cases of kryptonite this summer. They're doing DC summer
(09:18):
runs at from May twenty third through September, first at
the Gaylord Opera, Land, the Palms, the Texan, and the Rockies.
And just to break it down, there's over a dozen
fan activations, the Battle for Justice, light Show, The Riddler,
Scavenger Hunt, character dining, pool side, movie night, secret menu, cocktails,
(09:39):
all this kind of stuff. The biggest thing, though, is
the Universe of Light Lantern walkthrough, which is only at
the Gaylord, Texan and this is basically forty DC heroes
and villains rendered in twenty four foot tall glowing sculptures
across seventeen and a half thousand square feet. So this
is a big walkthrough kind of installation here. And I
(09:59):
think why this is important is because the Gailored brand
keeps leaning into ip driven seasonal events to fill the
shoulder seasons, which again is a pivoting item. You know,
we've talked about the softening towardsm demand. I know from
speaking from speaking to some of the hoteliers and looking
at some of the hotelier news that that softening demand
(10:20):
is causing room nights to also decrease and occupancy rates
to lower. And so pivoting, what do you do You
pivot into instead of relying on the destinations, you become
the destination and you find a way to bring in
foot traffic for your items. So essentially what they're doing
is they're leveraging the hotels themselves to become like standalone
(10:42):
attractions and kind of creating these like mini con on
property experiences, and then that can upsell people into staying
there overnight to do some exclusive experiences. So I think
from a pivoting standpoint and a concept standpoint, this is excellent.
It's also very similar to what we talked about with
FanFest last week, because the Gaylord is known for their
(11:03):
ice events that Nico kind of pioneered and is directing
across all the properties now that rotate through and so
similar to Halloween Hornites and FanFest. It's like, if Ice
is their Halloween Hornites, what can they do in the
other shoulder seasons that doesn't conflict too much? And of
course they can do this DC thing. It's the first
(11:25):
time they've partnered with the Warner Brothers Discovery, and it
also builds on the buzz already for the new Superman movie.
So I think on every level this is a great
idea action.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well it just again I think one of the things
that we have to keep in mind. You know, we
always talk about what's the takeaway, And I'm going to
start with the takeaway because I think it makes the
most sense here. You mentioned fan Fest at Universal California
or fan fast Nights. This is another perfect example of
the power of the pop up. Yeah, because that's really
what this is. It is it's nothing. And the cool
(12:02):
thing about it is because again we both know Nico
and we and we've both worked well, I've worked for
what we've both worked for for the the different dealer properties.
And I also know some folks who are involved with
this particular these particular installations as well. One of the
(12:22):
things that they have always been really good at and
if you look at what is the selection of elements
they don't They are less concerned about the events or
the pop up. They are more concerned about room rate
or about room filling the rooms that's there. That is
(12:43):
their sole priority as well it should be. They are
a hotel, so they want to make certain that their
their rooms are sold. And the what I think is
interesting about this and Ice and so many of the
other installations they've done pirates, They've done a bunch of
different things over the years. One of the things I
(13:06):
think is most interesting is the fact that these are
not necessarily things that are people are going to go ooh,
I have to plan my whole trip around this experience.
But it is the tipping point between staying on a
local attractions property and staying on a Gaylord in a
Galord hotel. Now, I will say that all four of
these Gaylord hotels, and I've been to two of the four,
(13:29):
I've stayed at two or the four, they're they're phenomenal,
They're gorgeous properties, and they in and of themselves are
pretty pretty special, pretty amazing. But these these pop up experiences.
Doing the scavenger Hunt, for example, that is something that
they have done for ice, that's something they have done
for pirates. That's something that it's and it makes perfect
(13:51):
sense because again playing into your your your assets. They
have a gorgeous indoor facility that is completely safe for
families with young children to wander around and try to explore,
and it gets them out of their rooms to explore
the different areas within the resort itself. Super smart, super
(14:13):
smart light shows one of the things that they've always
done well. The Christmas experience in the Grand Atrium in
Orlando is amazing and there are actually people who will
book specific rooms now because it has built its reputation
over the years will book specific rooms so that they
(14:34):
can have a room where they can see the light show,
and they will book them a year in advance. So
it's Gaylord is really smart in the way that they
do these kinds of installations. They don't do so much
that it becomes cost prohibitive, but they do enough so
that it makes an impact, and they do enough that
(14:57):
hits their target audience, hits their family audience to again
get those the room penetration back up to where they
are comfortable. Yeah, I think this is yet another I'm
guessing they're gonna hit this one out of the park,
just like they have done with Ice and some of
their other installations.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yep. Yeah, I think it's also critical you keep mentioning it.
But I think it's pretty clear what their north star is,
and that might be you know, I think, if anything,
that might have been our miming criticism from fan Fest
again just to reiterate, like, I don't I love the event.
(15:37):
I think it's great Universal is doing bla blah blah.
But you know, I think it was unclear what the
north star that event is. Is it to activate nostalgia,
is it to activate fan individual fan bases, or like
what's the north Star? And I think, like you point out,
it's clear even to us as just looking at this event,
that the north Star is to fill rooms, that's the
(15:57):
north Star, and it's like, what do we do to
all the rooms? It's like we can add this thing
to make it to make the decision more in our favor,
like you said, and then it also increases traffic, which
could lead to I mean, it's like everything is like
we need to get our occupancy of the hotel up.
And I think that's excellent because it's clear across the
(16:18):
board what the thing is. And I think that's also
a big takeaway when you're making these events that your
attraction is making sure the entire team from creative all
the way down through to your operators understands what the
actional nor Star is so that you're not kind of
like fighting like is it you know? Is it this
north Star or is it that nord Star or like
(16:39):
well you know, or you don't have different departments with
different goals, like everything should be aligned, and it's clear
that it is.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And so much I don't have I don't have proprietary
information is as to what their percentages is percentages are
but I mean look at it this way. If, for example,
someone is booked in because their bread and butter for
years was the convention market. So if they have somebody
there traveling for business, if they have this pop up experience,
(17:09):
that's perfect for families. Dad doesn't come home or mom
doesn't come home on Friday, the family comes and joins
them for the weekend, so they expand They expand their
room penetration by two nights because they end up staying
a couple extra nights so the family can join them
and have a good time, or they start whatever, however
(17:31):
they work that out. It also encourages those people who
are coming for business to add their families, which again
they're all it may add an extra room, you know,
for example, mom and dad have their own room and
the kids have their own room, and it's connecting, so
it doubles the number of rooms potentially. It's just it's
(17:52):
just so smart because it doesn't it doesn't detract from
their bread and butter. It adds to it. Yep. And
I think that's and I think that's super smart. And
again utilizing all of them have beautiful indoor spaces that
can be utilized for light shows. Scavenger hunts, character shows,
character meet and greets, it's character dining experiences. They've got
(18:16):
all of these assets in place, and so they they
are utilizing their their main bread and butter and just
adding some extra, some extra branded and uh. And now
that they're exploring into the or expanding into the world
of IP outside of ICE. ICE has used IP in
(18:37):
the past, but for these kinds of things, expanding into
the world of DC makes total sense. Total sense.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Okay, all right, next to next up here. This is
also kind of in the same vein of stuff we've
been talking about recently with kind of maybe this maybe
could be a harbinger of more to come. But the
sac or Myndos Society says that the planned sixty five
acre Elk Grove zoo won't proceed. A downsized version would
(19:07):
not be financially or operationally sustainable. The city has already
spent four and a half million on studies and design
and bought nearly one hundred acres. It will now for
selling that land and refund the one point nine million
in donations that it received for construction had been slated
for twenty twenty seven. The three hundred million price tag
ballooned amid higher borrowing and construction costs. So I think
(19:31):
this collapse shows how the rising interest rates. So she
talked about, you know, with the ten years going up,
the interest rates going up and cost inflation which we've
also talked about, are derailing large zoo and aquarium projects.
Regional municipalities courting new attractions must now lock down funding
earlier and build in bigger cost contingencies if they want
this big headline grabbing towards assets to cross the finish line.
(19:55):
So I think this we will see if this is
the first of multiple of these kinds of projects to
get derailed. But we talked about this, We've been talking
about this for weeks. You know, a even a five
percent cost increase across a project of the scale, when
you're relying so much on fundraising and specific targets, really
(20:15):
just throws out of proportion. But I want Scott specifically
to talk about this because Scott has experience working on
CAPEX projects at the theme parks, but also a lot
of experience recently, especially with aquariums and zoos. Scott, is
this a harbinger of more to come? What can people
do about this kind of thing? Just what do you
overall all these things.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Let me let me start by saying, not all zoos
and aquariums work. They're funding the same way. There are
some zoos and aquariums that will not announce a project
until it is fully funded. There are others that will
announce a project in hopes of driving their funding efforts.
You know, zoos and aquariums are are for the most part, well,
(20:59):
actually all them are nonprofit organizations. All the ones I
work for are nonprofit organizations. And I think part of
it is you know, yes, I agree that the the
lack of security on what things are going to actually
cost is a huge issue right now. It's it's an
and and no one knows exactly where it's going to go.
(21:21):
I think it's that uncertainty that makes it that makes
it the most dangerous. If people were certain, they could
plan for it, but there is no certainty, and I
think there's I think that's one of the big concerns.
We have seen, you know, more and more government funding
for nonprofit organizations being either either going away or being threatened.
(21:45):
So I think zoos and aquariums are just sitting there
going how much longer before that really impacts US, and
not only not only corporate funding, but also i'm sorry,
not only government funding, but also corporate funding. Because of
course operations are starting to lose money, they're going to
be less and less likely to be major donors for
zoos and aquariums. So I think that is another issue.
(22:11):
It's something that I'm seeing happen across the board, not
just in zoos and aquariums, but it's very prominent there.
I have a client, a potential client that is just
hanging out right now that said, we love this project.
When we do it, this is the team we're going
to use. We just have to figure out how to
(22:33):
secure funding that we know is going to come through
for it. So the whole idea of funding for nonprofits,
I think is something that it's not just It's not
just the tariffs. It's not just the tariffs, although that
is a factor when you're doing major construction. One of
the things that I think we're going to see is
(22:57):
that the smart zoos and aquariums will lean more heavily
into financially profitable seasonal events. Oh yeah, because I think
there is an opportunity here to to take a little bit,
take a little a little more of a page out
of theme park books, and many zoos have already shifted
(23:18):
in this direction. Zoo Tampa, for example. You know, they
recognize that they earn money off of their Halloween and
Christmas events, and there are other zoos that I have
worked for that have shown record attendance during a really positive,
powerful Halloween or Christmas or Summer or whatever event. So
(23:40):
I think that with I think they're going to, if
they are smart, they're going to look into other ways
to find funding. And one of the other ways to
find funding is to invest a little bit of time
and effort into those those seasonal activities. Now, obviously I'm
biased because I work on them, and I will be
(24:00):
totally transparent Halloween Christmas events. I've done several for zoos
and aquariums, and I think that I've always thought it
was a great way to generate additional revenue. But now
it's not just going to be additional revenue. It's going
to be imperative revenue if they want to continue to
expand certain areas, and it's going to get to a
point where, you know, the flow of donations, either private, corporate,
(24:24):
or governmental, are going to get a little rockier Before
it becomes a smooth flow of cash again. So I
think now is the time for these nonprofits. In my opinion,
now is the time for these nonprofits to start thinking
about to start thinking a little bit more like a
for profit organization, yep, so that they can generate the
(24:47):
revenue they need to build that beautiful animal habitat, to
build that amazing hospital for their hoofstock, to find new
and different ways they have to they have to be
more cognizant of the guest experience than they ever have
been before. And many zoos and aquariums have already done this.
(25:09):
But the majority of people that I have worked with
have most of their focuses on the animals. And that's
the way it should be. The animals should be cared for.
That should be their primary concern. However, it's to the
point now where it's not just people are going to
give you money to do that, it's you have to
earn the money so you can do that. And I
(25:30):
think that's really important. In fact, I think that's so important.
Just just last week my company, I actually became a
member of AZA so that I'm more in the loop,
so that I can help my zoological and my aquarium
clients to be more effective in the way that they
(25:55):
generate revenue so that they can continue to expand and
grow and do these great new projects. So I guess,
I guess my my insummation. I think it's important now
that zoos and aquariums recognize they have to generate some
of their own revenue, yeah, or some additional revenue. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I don't want to spend too long on this, we
want to get another thing. But just really briefly, I
think exactly what you said ties thematically to our episode
last week about fan fast nights, which is utilized again,
and also what you talked about utilizing assets to activate
people to bring in you know it's it doesn't and
also ties the previous story about Gaylord, you know, bringing
(26:37):
in shoulder events and whatnot. So I think all of
that tracks those larger trends track, and we could summarize
it by saying it also applies to using the aquariums.
You know, they're not separate from the entertainment ecosystem. There
part of the entertainment ecosystem, and there they have the
same overall trends and forces still apply to them, but
(26:58):
it is getting harder to rely on just that one
revenue stream. Like we've talked about diversifying your revenue, especially
now there's new taxes. There's there's new taxes that are
being discussed also which would tax their tickets and their
donations at a higher percentage, which also would cut into that.
So basically they need to start thinking much more like
the theme parks and come up with these different events
(27:20):
to braize revenue. But but and.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Don's understanding, I'm not saying for a moment that they
should change their mission. I'm not saying for a moment
that they should take their focus off of the well
being of the animals. They absolutely should. They just need
to find new ways to fund that. Yeah, and reckon
because all too often, you know, even even today, many
of the people who are experts in the zoological and
(27:44):
the aquarium world, could they come from a time where
just because it was the right thing to do, medic
got funded. And that's not necessarily the case in our
current environment. So be more entrepreneurial is the takeaway.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So before we sign off this week, I do want
to answer some questions that we got in for last
We're a little late on answering these questions, but that's
okay because at least we got to them. So the
first one was from a few weeks ago. It was
on the Comcast earnings episode and basically Grabble eight nine
to five four basically said that comcasts of Disney need
(28:25):
to do the same thing and separate their other businesses
from the theme parks resorts. Disney needs to put theme
parks in a separate from the streaming, and so does comcasts.
Blah blah blah. Here's the thing, Okay, I think you
would be hard pressed to find a breakup that did
not work well for most everybody. You know, when you
break up companies, it does tend to make the individual
(28:46):
companies better, the earnings better. You know, it's better for
everybody except the CEO because the CEO, their compensation is
generally tied to the size of the overall business. So
the incentive structure for the CEO is to make a
larger business overall and get compensated more. And that kind
of at many times works against what would be best
(29:08):
for the individual shareholders or even the individual businesses, which
would have higher valuations if they were split up. So
I don't disagree with you, but I don't think it's
going to happen. Uh, And it's just because that's how
I would say America, the business is writ large work,
and especially with right now, with a departments that aren't
(29:31):
going to really look at mergers or really look at
monopoly or really split people up on that. Then it's
just so that's my answer. It's just it's gonna be.
That's just the state of things is that you have.
The reason is because we have these these forces working
against each other, you have what would be in the
best interests of the companies is, yes, to split them up,
you know, but that's just not gonna happen because that's
(29:53):
not how the CEO wants to do things, because that's
how they get paid well.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna throw another because this is
clearly an my area of expertise, but that doesn't stop
me from talking about it. Never has. So I think
that it's interesting because we also have spent a great
deal of time on the show talking about the importance
and the power of diversification. And if you split up,
then you're not diversified. If you split up, then you
(30:18):
become myopic. So there are advantages and disadvantages to that. Answer.
And I would love to be able to sit here
and give you all of the reasons for it and
all the reasons against it, but I'm not that smart,
so I can't do that. But I will say that,
you know, and I think we said it multiple times.
(30:40):
One of the shows that we did in the past
week or so is that, you know, the whole reason,
for example, Universal specifically with Comcast, the whole reason Universal
can be a bit more cavalier is because they're not
spending loan money. They're spending money that is owned by
the company. And I think that you know, those the
cross pollination of the different sides of Comcast are what
(31:03):
gives you that gives them that specific advantage. Yes, there
are advantages to splitting up. Absolutely, you become more focused,
you become you know, it's it's smaller and deeper versus
wider and shallower. But I I don't I don't want
to throw out the baby with the bathwater there, because
there are advantages for that diversification and for those larger
(31:23):
umbrella companies. Whether they all play out, I don't know,
but I just I just want to throw that in
there because it's because of that diversification the universal is
able to be so bold, specifically in the Comcast example.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
The next other one too. Also to address from the
same video, Sean Moore three six four eight asked, I
was curious if you could address in a future video
the logic of a ride line design that includes a
room that guests enter, listen to and watch a show,
and then proceed onto the ride. Does this help with
wait times or pulsing people on the ride? We know
(32:00):
in the Epic Monster's ride there were two rooms, and
we're trying to figure out the logic. Perhaps it's srictly
for entertainment. Thanks, Scott, you take this one, so.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
You want to keep people you want to The trend
right now is to blur the line between I am
waiting in queue and I'm experiencing the ride exactly. And
I think that designers are trying to retrain us so
that we don't just think about, oh, it's the ride,
(32:30):
it's the right. I gotta get on the ride, gotta
get on the right. The experience starts when you enter
the realm, when you enter the zone. I mean Epic
is a perfect example. You go through a portal before
you even get to the individual rides. You go through
a portal, which is your point of entry. The fact
that in many theme park experiences you spend a vast
(32:51):
majority of your time in a queue versus on a ride.
You know, the rides are are minutes, the queues are
patent eventually ours. So to not make the queue part
of the experience is a a in my opinion, a
disservice to the guest. I also think, you know, and
(33:12):
I think specifically the one that I think really nailed
it was when they first opened uh, Wizarding World, when
you when you go into when you go to Castle,
the Castle that the queue, in my opinion, is as impressive,
if not more impressive, than the ride itself. It is
to keep people entertained. It's also a perception of gosh,
(33:36):
I only got to do two things, you know, I
got to ride one ride and I got to ride
another ride, but I was waiting in queue for four
hours total during the course of the day. But when
those queues are that entertaining, they become part of the
experience and it's not just about the ride itself. Yeah,
so all right, well, thank you for those questions. Really
do appreciate those.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Keep them coming.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
We love those questions. Because that way we can answer
or address things that you feel are important other than
just the things that Philip and I think are important,
because quite honestly, we're here to serve you, so please
keep those questions coming. We are way over time, and
I know we're called the Park in thirty, but hey,
you know we get to talking on behalf of Philip Bernandez.
(34:17):
I'm Scott Swinson. This is Green Tech Theme Park in
thirty and we will see you all next week
From our studios this week in Los Angeles and Tampa.
This is Green Tagged Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip.
I'm joined as always by my wonderful co host Scott Twinson,
a Scott Swords and Crew Development. On Green tag we
break down the top theme park news each week for
business professionals and discuss why it matters to you all.
And this week, I think we're going to start with
a story that made the rounds last week quite around,
(00:23):
but of course we were sidetracked with FanFest. But we'll
talk about this week, which is that six Flags America
and Maryland is going to close at the twenty twenty
five season. The company will shutter the five hundred acre
Bowie Park and Hurricane Harbor in November twenty twenty five,
putting the site up for sale. The closure cuts around
seventy full time in seven hundred seasonal jobs and a
(00:44):
racist three point five million in annual county tax revenue.
The CEO site's post merger portfolio management as six Flags
and Cedar Fair shift capital to higher returns. We did
extensive coverage on the six Flags and Cedar Fair murger previously,
and we talked previously about how you should expect this
type of thing, which is really normal. It's really just
(01:07):
looking at underperforming areas and getting rid of them. And
especially in the context of what we talked about the
last several shows, which is universal's how much capital they have.
I mean, this is effectively them reducing an underperforming park
and taking that capital to reinvest it in other parts
(01:27):
of the portfolio that could have a higher yield. So
I think this is a harbinger maybe of other choices.
Expect more. I think you could expect more regional parks
to face the idea of redeveloped or reinvest and resell
or what they're going to do with that. But Scott,
what do we think is this?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, when this first came out, the first thing that
people kept saying is, oh, look, they just got Geaga linked,
because when Geaga Lake went away, they found that they
could actually earn more money by selling the land off
to developer for housing. And I think that's what's happening here.
(02:07):
But I think it's also and it's not just underperforming parks.
It's also when you have two behemoths in any industry
and they come together, they want to make sure that
they're not competing with one another. So because it just
ends up what was you know, healthy competition now becomes well, wait,
we're we're splitting our splitting our potential profit. So they
(02:33):
want to make sure that they're they're going through the
portfolio and saying what parks are can can can we
take the rid of this part? Can we take that
audience and shift them over here slightly? Or can we
shift them over there? And you know that this park
has kind of a unique history too. It also, I
mean it actually started as a wild animal park and
(02:54):
then didn't become a theme park until much later in
its existence. So it's it's one of those things that
I think you're right, Philip. I think we're going to
see more of this in Six Flags. I think there's
gonna be a lot more scrutiny and sharpening of pencils
to figure out, you know, how can we make the
overall company more profitable. And I have seen a couple
of people once this announcement came out saying, you know,
(03:17):
people actually asking the question, was it a good idea
for her Fare and six Flags to actually merge, because
we haven't really seen any positivity come from it. And
I just remind people it's it's like it's gonna it's
gonna move. It's gonna move like an aircraft carrier, not
like a speedboat. Yes, so it's gonna be it's gonna
(03:40):
be slow, it's gonna be steady. It's way too early
to tell whether it was a good idea, bad idea,
neutral idea. So this is this is one of the things. Now,
I will say I also had many, many friends since
I came from as I grew up in the Chicago
Land area going oh my gosh, Great America is closing. No,
six Flags Great America and Gurney, Illinois is not closing.
(04:02):
This is six Flags America, which is in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So just so well, I think, you know what, what
are the takeaways I think for smaller operators about this
or is there any I mean, is this news that
they really need to care about or what would you
say their takeaways?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I think it's well, I just think it's a it's
a good reminder that you need to set and achieve
your financial goals. Yeah, and not just not just accept
the fact that you know, like if you are a
park that is is under the umbrella of a much
larger corporation that they're going to protect you forever. They're
(04:42):
going to evaluate, and it's usually when this kind of
merger takes place that they reevaluate everything.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I going back in time having worked for Bush Gardens
when it was when it had multiple parent companies. Each
time there was a new parent company, there was a
change in the way that things were done. There was
a reevaluation of the way things were done, and they
were then aligned with the new parent company's way of
(05:11):
doing things. It is something that happens all the time.
It is nothing to be feared, but it is something
to be recognized that it will it will happen, and
so if there are listeners who are currently working for
other flag sparks, just be aware. And I will be honest,
(05:34):
it would surprise me if this came as a surprise
to anybody who was working at six Flags America. They
knew it was going to happen. Like I said, things
move very very slowly when these kinds of things happen.
The fact that it's being announced now so that they'll
get all the way through the end of this season,
they will be able to conclude this season and then
it will go away. It gives everybody the opportunity to
(05:57):
make the appropriate changes in their lives. Nothing is forever,
and I think that's important to recognize. And so, once again,
for all those people who this does impact on a
personal and direct level, the same mantra that I've used
in my own personal career and continue to share with
(06:18):
everybody else, don't panic, Just pivot, find a new way
make your adjustments. I know that there are anytime there
are closures, layoffs, changes, other companies in the industry recognize
that this is happening and they start looking to those
people to go, wait a minute, we could really use
(06:39):
somebody who has that skill set for us. I know
we did that with casting and staffing here in Florida.
When Lego Land let go of the majority of their
entertainment folks, we immediately held auditions the next day. We
basically invited all the people that we knew and said, hey,
(07:00):
you know, it's not a full time gig, but we
got a seasonal gig coming up here in Tampa. Maybe
it's something you might be interested in. So it's it
made for those of you who may be directly impacted. Again,
don't panic. The industry knows that you're there, and good
work gets good work. So if you are in high
standing in your current position, it puts you in good
(07:20):
stead for potential new opportunities. But I think it's important
to recognize this is not you know, there are people
who will say, oh, this is so unfair. I've worked
here all my life, I grew blah blah, blah blah.
It's a business. It is a business, and it's important
to recognize that. The only thing you can do is
you don't necessarily have to like the change, but you
(07:41):
have to embrace the change. You have to make sure
you know, if you've ever if you've ever received an
email from me, you will see that my signature line
is embraced the day, and that happened when I was
no longer with Bush. Because each day brings something new
and gives you the opportunity to continue your career, maybe
not in exactly the direction that you thought you were going,
(08:03):
but it gives you the opportunity to figure out, what
can I do today that's going to make my job
better and just recognize this kind of thing is going
to happen. You know, businesses are going to come and go,
and the advantage of being under a big corporate umbrella
is that you have a lot of buying power. There
is some protection, there is some insulation from some smaller variations,
(08:26):
but it also means that when they go in and
look at all of the parts and pieces, they have
to make sure that the giant umbrella is also being
taken care of. So I'm sorry for the people that
this impacts on a frontline level, but again, don't panic.
This is a big industry and there's a lot of
(08:47):
new stuff out there and a lot of people who
are looking for people with your skill set. So think
of the industry as a macrocosm, not an individual park,
and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Well that's a great segue, and especially the pivoting section
of that, don't patches pivot. Let's talk about how the
Gaylord hotels are powering up with DC this summer. So
Gaylord's four supersized convention resorts will trade glass atriums for
glass cases of kryptonite this summer. They're doing DC summer
(09:18):
runs at from May twenty third through September, first at
the Gaylord Opera, Land, the Palms, the Texan, and the Rockies.
And just to break it down, there's over a dozen
fan activations, the Battle for Justice, light Show, The Riddler,
Scavenger Hunt, character dining, pool side, movie night, secret menu, cocktails,
(09:39):
all this kind of stuff. The biggest thing, though, is
the Universe of Light Lantern walkthrough, which is only at
the Gaylord, Texan and this is basically forty DC heroes
and villains rendered in twenty four foot tall glowing sculptures
across seventeen and a half thousand square feet. So this
is a big walkthrough kind of installation here. And I
(09:59):
think why this is important is because the Gailored brand
keeps leaning into ip driven seasonal events to fill the
shoulder seasons, which again is a pivoting item. You know,
we've talked about the softening towardsm demand. I know from
speaking from speaking to some of the hoteliers and looking
at some of the hotelier news that that softening demand
(10:20):
is causing room nights to also decrease and occupancy rates
to lower. And so pivoting, what do you do You
pivot into instead of relying on the destinations, you become
the destination and you find a way to bring in
foot traffic for your items. So essentially what they're doing
is they're leveraging the hotels themselves to become like standalone
(10:42):
attractions and kind of creating these like mini con on
property experiences, and then that can upsell people into staying
there overnight to do some exclusive experiences. So I think
from a pivoting standpoint and a concept standpoint, this is excellent.
It's also very similar to what we talked about with
FanFest last week, because the Gaylord is known for their
(11:03):
ice events that Nico kind of pioneered and is directing
across all the properties now that rotate through and so
similar to Halloween Hornites and FanFest. It's like, if Ice
is their Halloween Hornites, what can they do in the
other shoulder seasons that doesn't conflict too much? And of
course they can do this DC thing. It's the first
(11:25):
time they've partnered with the Warner Brothers Discovery, and it
also builds on the buzz already for the new Superman movie.
So I think on every level this is a great
idea action.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well it just again I think one of the things
that we have to keep in mind. You know, we
always talk about what's the takeaway, And I'm going to
start with the takeaway because I think it makes the
most sense here. You mentioned fan Fest at Universal California
or fan fast Nights. This is another perfect example of
the power of the pop up. Yeah, because that's really
what this is. It is it's nothing. And the cool
(12:02):
thing about it is because again we both know Nico
and we and we've both worked well, I've worked for
what we've both worked for for the the different dealer properties.
And I also know some folks who are involved with
this particular these particular installations as well. One of the
(12:22):
things that they have always been really good at and
if you look at what is the selection of elements
they don't They are less concerned about the events or
the pop up. They are more concerned about room rate
or about room filling the rooms that's there. That is
(12:43):
their sole priority as well it should be. They are
a hotel, so they want to make certain that their
their rooms are sold. And the what I think is
interesting about this and Ice and so many of the
other installations they've done pirates, They've done a bunch of
different things over the years. One of the things I
(13:06):
think is most interesting is the fact that these are
not necessarily things that are people are going to go ooh,
I have to plan my whole trip around this experience.
But it is the tipping point between staying on a
local attractions property and staying on a Gaylord in a
Galord hotel. Now, I will say that all four of
these Gaylord hotels, and I've been to two of the four,
(13:29):
I've stayed at two or the four, they're they're phenomenal,
They're gorgeous properties, and they in and of themselves are
pretty pretty special, pretty amazing. But these these pop up experiences.
Doing the scavenger Hunt, for example, that is something that
they have done for ice, that's something they have done
for pirates. That's something that it's and it makes perfect
(13:51):
sense because again playing into your your your assets. They
have a gorgeous indoor facility that is completely safe for
families with young children to wander around and try to explore,
and it gets them out of their rooms to explore
the different areas within the resort itself. Super smart, super
(14:13):
smart light shows one of the things that they've always
done well. The Christmas experience in the Grand Atrium in
Orlando is amazing and there are actually people who will
book specific rooms now because it has built its reputation
over the years will book specific rooms so that they
(14:34):
can have a room where they can see the light show,
and they will book them a year in advance. So
it's Gaylord is really smart in the way that they
do these kinds of installations. They don't do so much
that it becomes cost prohibitive, but they do enough so
that it makes an impact, and they do enough that
(14:57):
hits their target audience, hits their family audience to again
get those the room penetration back up to where they
are comfortable. Yeah, I think this is yet another I'm
guessing they're gonna hit this one out of the park,
just like they have done with Ice and some of
their other installations.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yep. Yeah, I think it's also critical you keep mentioning it.
But I think it's pretty clear what their north star is,
and that might be you know, I think, if anything,
that might have been our miming criticism from fan Fest
again just to reiterate, like, I don't I love the event.
(15:37):
I think it's great Universal is doing bla blah blah.
But you know, I think it was unclear what the
north star that event is. Is it to activate nostalgia,
is it to activate fan individual fan bases, or like
what's the north Star? And I think, like you point out,
it's clear even to us as just looking at this event,
that the north Star is to fill rooms, that's the
(15:57):
north Star, and it's like, what do we do to
all the rooms? It's like we can add this thing
to make it to make the decision more in our favor,
like you said, and then it also increases traffic, which
could lead to I mean, it's like everything is like
we need to get our occupancy of the hotel up.
And I think that's excellent because it's clear across the
(16:18):
board what the thing is. And I think that's also
a big takeaway when you're making these events that your
attraction is making sure the entire team from creative all
the way down through to your operators understands what the
actional nor Star is so that you're not kind of
like fighting like is it you know? Is it this
north Star or is it that nord Star or like
(16:39):
well you know, or you don't have different departments with
different goals, like everything should be aligned, and it's clear
that it is.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And so much I don't have I don't have proprietary
information is as to what their percentages is percentages are
but I mean look at it this way. If, for example,
someone is booked in because their bread and butter for
years was the convention market. So if they have somebody
there traveling for business, if they have this pop up experience,
(17:09):
that's perfect for families. Dad doesn't come home or mom
doesn't come home on Friday, the family comes and joins
them for the weekend, so they expand They expand their
room penetration by two nights because they end up staying
a couple extra nights so the family can join them
and have a good time, or they start whatever, however
(17:31):
they work that out. It also encourages those people who
are coming for business to add their families, which again
they're all it may add an extra room, you know,
for example, mom and dad have their own room and
the kids have their own room, and it's connecting, so
it doubles the number of rooms potentially. It's just it's
(17:52):
just so smart because it doesn't it doesn't detract from
their bread and butter. It adds to it. Yep. And
I think that's and I think that's super smart. And
again utilizing all of them have beautiful indoor spaces that
can be utilized for light shows. Scavenger hunts, character shows,
character meet and greets, it's character dining experiences. They've got
(18:16):
all of these assets in place, and so they they
are utilizing their their main bread and butter and just
adding some extra, some extra branded and uh. And now
that they're exploring into the or expanding into the world
of IP outside of ICE. ICE has used IP in
(18:37):
the past, but for these kinds of things, expanding into
the world of DC makes total sense. Total sense.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Okay, all right, next to next up here. This is
also kind of in the same vein of stuff we've
been talking about recently with kind of maybe this maybe
could be a harbinger of more to come. But the
sac or Myndos Society says that the planned sixty five
acre Elk Grove zoo won't proceed. A downsized version would
(19:07):
not be financially or operationally sustainable. The city has already
spent four and a half million on studies and design
and bought nearly one hundred acres. It will now for
selling that land and refund the one point nine million
in donations that it received for construction had been slated
for twenty twenty seven. The three hundred million price tag
ballooned amid higher borrowing and construction costs. So I think
(19:31):
this collapse shows how the rising interest rates. So she
talked about, you know, with the ten years going up,
the interest rates going up and cost inflation which we've
also talked about, are derailing large zoo and aquarium projects.
Regional municipalities courting new attractions must now lock down funding
earlier and build in bigger cost contingencies if they want
this big headline grabbing towards assets to cross the finish line.
(19:55):
So I think this we will see if this is
the first of multiple of these kinds of projects to
get derailed. But we talked about this, We've been talking
about this for weeks. You know, a even a five
percent cost increase across a project of the scale, when
you're relying so much on fundraising and specific targets, really
(20:15):
just throws out of proportion. But I want Scott specifically
to talk about this because Scott has experience working on
CAPEX projects at the theme parks, but also a lot
of experience recently, especially with aquariums and zoos. Scott, is
this a harbinger of more to come? What can people
do about this kind of thing? Just what do you
overall all these things.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Let me let me start by saying, not all zoos
and aquariums work. They're funding the same way. There are
some zoos and aquariums that will not announce a project
until it is fully funded. There are others that will
announce a project in hopes of driving their funding efforts.
You know, zoos and aquariums are are for the most part, well,
(20:59):
actually all them are nonprofit organizations. All the ones I
work for are nonprofit organizations. And I think part of
it is you know, yes, I agree that the the
lack of security on what things are going to actually
cost is a huge issue right now. It's it's an
and and no one knows exactly where it's going to go.
(21:21):
I think it's that uncertainty that makes it that makes
it the most dangerous. If people were certain, they could
plan for it, but there is no certainty, and I
think there's I think that's one of the big concerns.
We have seen, you know, more and more government funding
for nonprofit organizations being either either going away or being threatened.
(21:45):
So I think zoos and aquariums are just sitting there
going how much longer before that really impacts US, and
not only not only corporate funding, but also i'm sorry,
not only government funding, but also corporate funding. Because of
course operations are starting to lose money, they're going to
be less and less likely to be major donors for
zoos and aquariums. So I think that is another issue.
(22:11):
It's something that I'm seeing happen across the board, not
just in zoos and aquariums, but it's very prominent there.
I have a client, a potential client that is just
hanging out right now that said, we love this project.
When we do it, this is the team we're going
to use. We just have to figure out how to
(22:33):
secure funding that we know is going to come through
for it. So the whole idea of funding for nonprofits,
I think is something that it's not just It's not
just the tariffs. It's not just the tariffs, although that
is a factor when you're doing major construction. One of
the things that I think we're going to see is
(22:57):
that the smart zoos and aquariums will lean more heavily
into financially profitable seasonal events. Oh yeah, because I think
there is an opportunity here to to take a little bit,
take a little a little more of a page out
of theme park books, and many zoos have already shifted
(23:18):
in this direction. Zoo Tampa, for example. You know, they
recognize that they earn money off of their Halloween and
Christmas events, and there are other zoos that I have
worked for that have shown record attendance during a really positive,
powerful Halloween or Christmas or Summer or whatever event. So
(23:40):
I think that with I think they're going to, if
they are smart, they're going to look into other ways
to find funding. And one of the other ways to
find funding is to invest a little bit of time
and effort into those those seasonal activities. Now, obviously I'm
biased because I work on them, and I will be
(24:00):
totally transparent Halloween Christmas events. I've done several for zoos
and aquariums, and I think that I've always thought it
was a great way to generate additional revenue. But now
it's not just going to be additional revenue. It's going
to be imperative revenue if they want to continue to
expand certain areas, and it's going to get to a
point where, you know, the flow of donations, either private, corporate,
(24:24):
or governmental, are going to get a little rockier Before
it becomes a smooth flow of cash again. So I
think now is the time for these nonprofits. In my opinion,
now is the time for these nonprofits to start thinking
about to start thinking a little bit more like a
for profit organization, yep, so that they can generate the
(24:47):
revenue they need to build that beautiful animal habitat, to
build that amazing hospital for their hoofstock, to find new
and different ways they have to they have to be
more cognizant of the guest experience than they ever have
been before. And many zoos and aquariums have already done this.
(25:09):
But the majority of people that I have worked with
have most of their focuses on the animals. And that's
the way it should be. The animals should be cared for.
That should be their primary concern. However, it's to the
point now where it's not just people are going to
give you money to do that, it's you have to
earn the money so you can do that. And I
(25:30):
think that's really important. In fact, I think that's so important.
Just just last week my company, I actually became a
member of AZA so that I'm more in the loop,
so that I can help my zoological and my aquarium
clients to be more effective in the way that they
(25:55):
generate revenue so that they can continue to expand and
grow and do these great new projects. So I guess,
I guess my my insummation. I think it's important now
that zoos and aquariums recognize they have to generate some
of their own revenue, yeah, or some additional revenue. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I don't want to spend too long on this, we
want to get another thing. But just really briefly, I
think exactly what you said ties thematically to our episode
last week about fan fast nights, which is utilized again,
and also what you talked about utilizing assets to activate
people to bring in you know it's it doesn't and
also ties the previous story about Gaylord, you know, bringing
(26:37):
in shoulder events and whatnot. So I think all of
that tracks those larger trends track, and we could summarize
it by saying it also applies to using the aquariums.
You know, they're not separate from the entertainment ecosystem. There
part of the entertainment ecosystem, and there they have the
same overall trends and forces still apply to them, but
(26:58):
it is getting harder to rely on just that one
revenue stream. Like we've talked about diversifying your revenue, especially
now there's new taxes. There's there's new taxes that are
being discussed also which would tax their tickets and their
donations at a higher percentage, which also would cut into that.
So basically they need to start thinking much more like
the theme parks and come up with these different events
(27:20):
to braize revenue. But but and.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Don's understanding, I'm not saying for a moment that they
should change their mission. I'm not saying for a moment
that they should take their focus off of the well
being of the animals. They absolutely should. They just need
to find new ways to fund that. Yeah, and reckon
because all too often, you know, even even today, many
of the people who are experts in the zoological and
(27:44):
the aquarium world, could they come from a time where
just because it was the right thing to do, medic
got funded. And that's not necessarily the case in our
current environment. So be more entrepreneurial is the takeaway.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So before we sign off this week, I do want
to answer some questions that we got in for last
We're a little late on answering these questions, but that's
okay because at least we got to them. So the
first one was from a few weeks ago. It was
on the Comcast earnings episode and basically Grabble eight nine
to five four basically said that comcasts of Disney need
(28:25):
to do the same thing and separate their other businesses
from the theme parks resorts. Disney needs to put theme
parks in a separate from the streaming, and so does comcasts.
Blah blah blah. Here's the thing, Okay, I think you
would be hard pressed to find a breakup that did
not work well for most everybody. You know, when you
break up companies, it does tend to make the individual
(28:46):
companies better, the earnings better. You know, it's better for
everybody except the CEO because the CEO, their compensation is
generally tied to the size of the overall business. So
the incentive structure for the CEO is to make a
larger business overall and get compensated more. And that kind
of at many times works against what would be best
(29:08):
for the individual shareholders or even the individual businesses, which
would have higher valuations if they were split up. So
I don't disagree with you, but I don't think it's
going to happen. Uh, And it's just because that's how
I would say America, the business is writ large work,
and especially with right now, with a departments that aren't
(29:31):
going to really look at mergers or really look at
monopoly or really split people up on that. Then it's
just so that's my answer. It's just it's gonna be.
That's just the state of things is that you have.
The reason is because we have these these forces working
against each other, you have what would be in the
best interests of the companies is, yes, to split them up,
you know, but that's just not gonna happen because that's
(29:53):
not how the CEO wants to do things, because that's
how they get paid well.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna throw another because this is
clearly an my area of expertise, but that doesn't stop
me from talking about it. Never has. So I think
that it's interesting because we also have spent a great
deal of time on the show talking about the importance
and the power of diversification. And if you split up,
then you're not diversified. If you split up, then you
(30:18):
become myopic. So there are advantages and disadvantages to that. Answer.
And I would love to be able to sit here
and give you all of the reasons for it and
all the reasons against it, but I'm not that smart,
so I can't do that. But I will say that,
you know, and I think we said it multiple times.
(30:40):
One of the shows that we did in the past
week or so is that, you know, the whole reason,
for example, Universal specifically with Comcast, the whole reason Universal
can be a bit more cavalier is because they're not
spending loan money. They're spending money that is owned by
the company. And I think that you know, those the
cross pollination of the different sides of Comcast are what
(31:03):
gives you that gives them that specific advantage. Yes, there
are advantages to splitting up. Absolutely, you become more focused,
you become you know, it's it's smaller and deeper versus
wider and shallower. But I I don't I don't want
to throw out the baby with the bathwater there, because
there are advantages for that diversification and for those larger
(31:23):
umbrella companies. Whether they all play out, I don't know,
but I just I just want to throw that in
there because it's because of that diversification the universal is
able to be so bold, specifically in the Comcast example.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
The next other one too. Also to address from the
same video, Sean Moore three six four eight asked, I
was curious if you could address in a future video
the logic of a ride line design that includes a
room that guests enter, listen to and watch a show,
and then proceed onto the ride. Does this help with
wait times or pulsing people on the ride? We know
(32:00):
in the Epic Monster's ride there were two rooms, and
we're trying to figure out the logic. Perhaps it's srictly
for entertainment. Thanks, Scott, you take this one, so.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
You want to keep people you want to The trend
right now is to blur the line between I am
waiting in queue and I'm experiencing the ride exactly. And
I think that designers are trying to retrain us so
that we don't just think about, oh, it's the ride,
(32:30):
it's the right. I gotta get on the ride, gotta
get on the right. The experience starts when you enter
the realm, when you enter the zone. I mean Epic
is a perfect example. You go through a portal before
you even get to the individual rides. You go through
a portal, which is your point of entry. The fact
that in many theme park experiences you spend a vast
(32:51):
majority of your time in a queue versus on a ride.
You know, the rides are are minutes, the queues are
patent eventually ours. So to not make the queue part
of the experience is a a in my opinion, a
disservice to the guest. I also think, you know, and
(33:12):
I think specifically the one that I think really nailed
it was when they first opened uh, Wizarding World, when
you when you go into when you go to Castle,
the Castle that the queue, in my opinion, is as impressive,
if not more impressive, than the ride itself. It is
to keep people entertained. It's also a perception of gosh,
(33:36):
I only got to do two things, you know, I
got to ride one ride and I got to ride
another ride, but I was waiting in queue for four
hours total during the course of the day. But when
those queues are that entertaining, they become part of the
experience and it's not just about the ride itself. Yeah,
so all right, well, thank you for those questions. Really
do appreciate those.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Keep them coming.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
We love those questions. Because that way we can answer
or address things that you feel are important other than
just the things that Philip and I think are important,
because quite honestly, we're here to serve you, so please
keep those questions coming. We are way over time, and
I know we're called the Park in thirty, but hey,
you know we get to talking on behalf of Philip Bernandez.
(34:17):
I'm Scott Swinson. This is Green Tech Theme Park in
thirty and we will see you all next week
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