October 5, 2025 • 31 mins
Universal has reopened Stardust Racers at Epic Universe, following a fatal incident earlier this year, and introduced new signage and stricter accessibility requirements. The latest safety guide now warns guests with weakened bones, limited mobility, or difficulty maintaining an upright position not to ride—and the “must walk independently” clause now extends across multiple attractions. Philip and Scott unpack what this means for operators who must balance guest safety, accessibility, and legal liability. Should Universal have waited longer to reopen, or do the updated rules demonstrate responsible transparency? Plus, Universal’s Vegas venue gets festive with Krampus and Kin, a dark-holiday overlay for Horror Unleashed. Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right from our studios this week in Detroit and Tampa.
This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip
and I'm joined as always been my co host Scott Sweinson,
Scott Sweitzson and Creativelopment. On Green Tag, we look at
the week's top news and explain why it matters to
business professionals in the theme entertainment space. And today Stardust
Racers has reopened and we are looking at why.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And everything around it.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yeah, what happened? Well, and I think I think before
we even start, I think we have to to kind
of clear the air and say, this is a terrible
thing we have. You know, we are very sorry for
the the the loss of a human life, and our
respect and our condolences go out to the family and
(00:47):
friends of Kevin and we hope that you know that
they are able to overcome this. But we want to
look at this from a business standpoint. We want to
look at this from an operational standpoint, because again that's
the sort of point of view of this particular podcast.
We are not saying, we are not saying anything negative
about the victim or their families. We are just here
(01:11):
to kind of review how it's being handled and discuss,
you know, kind of our opinions and our viewpoints based
on our many years in the industry as to how
this has evolved and is probably will continue to evolve.
So our condolences to the family, and now let's look
at it from a from a business standpoint and see
(01:33):
how that unravels.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Also, we're not attorneys. Uh right, Yeah, where you to
add that disclosure? We are not attorneys. Scott does is
and I op a certified instructor and does train and
I am i K certified, so we have those backgrounds,
but we are not attorneys.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
We're also not at financial advisors. But you know, just
we're getting them all out there, all the disclosures.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yes, I'm not a doctor, nor have I ever Edward
on television.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So basically, if I'm going to try and summarize sum
this up. We talked about the news last time when
it broke about the death that happened, and we had
reported previously that the autopsy had ruled it an accident previously,
and then it was closed for a while and now
Universal has announced that it's reopening, and it seems like
(02:25):
they are reopening it, but they are changing a few
of the they're changing the signage outside the right, and
they're also changing some of the guidelines in the safety
protocols in the handbooks for this. That's what I understand.
They're changing these elements. We're going to link to an article,
a great article from click on Orlando that kind of
(02:48):
goes through all the changes in detail, but also includes
some quotes from both from both sides on this. And
if we're looking at specifically, some of the sections that
have changed, so it says an updated symbol legend for
all attractions, more rider requirements for attractions including stars racers,
and new language covering the topics of guests using wheelchairs.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's what's been changed.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I think what they removed, So what it used
to say inside the employee or inside the guidebook was
you must be able to take a small step into
the ride vehicle compartment, either independently or with assistance from
your companion. So that has been removed, and what they
have added in its place is that guests using mobility
(03:36):
devices must be able to walk independently. And it says
and that's been added into the guests using wheelchair sections,
and that seems to be the biggest shift is a
change from being able to walk with assistance or move
with assistance to being able to walk independently. And I
think that to me, that's the biggest thing, because that's
(03:56):
a very big difference.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, and I think that you know the reasoning behind
that because you have to recognize you know, we all know.
Anybody in the industry knows that anybody who wants to
ride a roller coaster will tell the operator anything they
want to hear so that they can ride the roller coaster.
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but by saying
(04:18):
must be able to walk independently, it changes what they
must demonstrates as their what their disability does and does
not allow them to do. If you can walk independently,
you can hold yourself upright, And that seems to be
again not an expert, but based on everything that we've
read and based on everything that we've seen, that seems
(04:38):
to have been part of the situation, part of the
reason that unfortunately the coaster took a human life. That's
so I think that by demonstrating that you can't ask
somebody can you sit up? But if you can make them,
you know, if you make the safety restriction, they must
be able to walk two or three steps unassisted. That
(05:00):
proves doesn't ask, it proves that you can set up
to ride the ride, and if that was indeed the issue,
hopefully that will help reduce any misconceptions or or it
will clarify the safety requirements for the ride.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And on that point too, the symbol that they added,
so I was reading from the section the wheelchair guests
with wheelchair section, but there also is the as I mentioned,
the signage that's out front, and I'm reading here it
says that that they What they have done is they've
added a red circle with a diagonal line crossing it,
(05:41):
and the symbol means a guess should not board an
attraction if they have weakened bones or muscles, if they
have the inability to independently maintain upright position, which is
what you just said, or if they have any other
conditions which may be aggravated. So that's so it seems
like they've they're trying to also convey what you're saying,
with like the symbol that outside the ride to be
looking for that. So it's changed all the signage in
(06:02):
addition to adding that clarity inside of of the you know,
the operations.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And the thing I think we need to reinforce here
is all of the investigations that took place, and there
were many after this. There was an internal investigation, there
was an investigation by the ride manufacturer, there was an
investigation obviously by the police, and then there was an
investigation by a third party, an independent third party, and
(06:30):
all of them came back saying that before, during, and
after the situation, the ride was operating within the the
operating standards that were there. Now the argument could be made,
but someone still died. Why, Yeah, so well that on
that point. So, as Scott mentioned, you know, on the
(06:54):
Universal side, and they've given statements and all of those
those people have have ruled it an accident. However, obviously
the family is not happy about this, and they their
counsel and the family and selfso put out statements that
kind of talk to what Scott was saying. So first
the family statement, the parents. The parents said, by rushing
(07:15):
to reopen this ride as if nothing happened, Universal is
showing great disregard for Kevin's life, our family's pain, and
the safety of every rider who steps onto that coaster.
We are horrified that Universal would put the ride back
into operation so quickly. That's a statement from the parents
and then the legal counsel. What the Loop Council said
is a slightly different argument, but it's speaking to what
Scottle was just mentioning. Basically, they said, startus Racers is
(07:37):
evidence of an active death investigation. Reopening the ride before
our experts can examine every component is unadulterated, spoilage of evidence,
a grave risk public safety, and puts profits over people's lives.
Universal reportedly told employees the ride functioned as intended. If
that is accurate, then the design itself is deadly. We
(07:58):
are demanding the Universal pause reopening, preserve all evidence, and
allow our experts to inspect it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
If they refuse, we will address Universsel's callous actions in court.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So I guess at least the council is claiming they
not everybody that's supposed to inspected have inspected it, So
they're experts of not inspected.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It so well, but they're always they're always going to
I think both of these statements are filled with emotion. Obviously,
the families makes total sense that they would be filled
with emotion. Yeah, they are there's the way it reads,
you know, and I'm not gonna I'm not going to
judge them because they are emotional about losing a family member.
(08:39):
But again, it is very emotionally based, you know, to
say that it risks the life of every writer. Anytime
absolute statements are made, they are usually incorrect. Yeah, you know, absolutes.
You know, every writer was not endangered because every writer
has not been injured or or you know, So we
have to we have to kind of take that and
take that with a I don't want to say grain
(09:00):
of salt, but they've just lost a family member, so
obviously they're going to have an outpouring of emotion and
they're going to state things in a very emotional way,
and I can't fault them for that looking at the
council's statement. Usually usually an attorney and again not an attorney,
(09:23):
but have been involved or aware of different situations regarding.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, when you were working with Parks and entire your career,
you've always encountered situations like this, and you've been on
both ends of the attorney.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Absolutely, and the attorneys quite often will do everything they
can to delay a reopening, to make something to to
help to help cause the park to lose money so
that they are more likely to settle quickly. That's right,
(10:00):
So I understand his point of view as well or
her point of view. I don't know whether always his
point of view. I know who it is his point
of view. So uh again, to say that the internal view,
the police view, the third party contract or the third party,
the outside third party, and the vendor are all completely wrong,
(10:21):
I think that's a little bold.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I think that's and.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
As far as evidence goes, the the evidence seems to be.
You know, you can look at the growing number of
writers who have ridden and not been injured. To me,
that continues to build evidence against his case. So of
course he wants to keep it closed.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I I agree with that definitely. You know, especially with
the attorney always has to argue their for their client right,
so they're always taking it and that's their job. So
I think I think they're doing their job, and I
think that statement is a pretty Now, I think that
statement is pretty good statement considering that they have to
do their job about it. So it's it's it's a
good angle to take with it. Right now, what I
(11:05):
would say, I'm say two things, So reviewing all this information,
I'm actually I do feel like Universal should have done
something else.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And that is just because.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
For for when our background, when it comes you know,
to manufacturing or anything, when it comes to this theme
park stuff, it's always overcorrect if you if there's a problem,
you always overcorrect. And then when we're in customer service,
we all understand that it doesn't matter if it was
actually our fault. It's always our fault. You know, it's
like the weather. It's not our fault, but it's our fault.
You know, everything is.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Unless unless it's an earnings call, and then it's.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, correct, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
But so that's from from that standpoint, I do think
that it seems, uh, it does seem a little callous
where the only changes were changes that were not really
things you could market, right, even though I think the
changes are good, Like I actually applaud the operations. I
think the way they change the books and they don'tulture
I think that's all. That's what I like to hear.
(12:02):
As a nerd, I'm like, oh, this is great, but
as Scott is always saying, you know, like that doesn't
sell tickets, and I think something more from a PR
thing would would have I think at least been a
better gesture. However, all that being said, I don't think
the Universal can because it is an open case and
this is the problem, and this is also something that
(12:24):
we've encountered. So it's just it's for those of you
that are international listeners, it may seem weird, but America
is a really litigious country. And so the problem with
I think with Universal making any sort of other gesture,
even though I just said that they should, and even
though I believe that, I think that the problem with
it is that while this is still going through the court,
(12:45):
they almost can't do it because if they do anything
that could be seen as evidence that they that they
might be admitting to fault of some kind.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Or worse yet, or worse yet knowingly allowing this to
have and because again they knew that it was not safe.
So I personally don't believe quite honestly.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, So for example, I just want to give a
quick example from our Suffer manufacturing. So you know, we
in the past there's been some instances where you know,
we have we manufacture lights, and of course our lights
are not meant to be outdoor full full year round,
like you know, they shouldn't go through free cycles, they
(13:28):
shouldn't be buried in water of more than one foot
of pressure. You know, there are some things that are
pretty obvious, like when you buy them, we're like, this
is not meant for this, and don't do it, and
we will tell everyone not to do it. So there's
been some attractions such I won't name names, but there's
been attractions in the past that have put them like
in snow, like buried them in snow, or put them
in the bottom of a large water fountain or inside
of a water jets and none of these things are allowed,
(13:50):
right And then of course they get upset and they
blame us, and we're like, we use them in properly.
But again back to my point, even if it was
the designer that is the one that specified it in
the wrong way, the end client, you know, the attraction
still blames us, right because the designer puts the blame
onto us. And in some cases, you know where even
(14:11):
where I have wanted to send replacements to just work
with them because we want the project to be successful,
we you know, our legal councils even told us not
to because if we send replacements to a thing where
we know that they install them improperly, then it's kind
of like we're admitting to something even though we're not.
So even though it's like we want to do the
(14:31):
nice thing and just help them, even though we know
that they did it wrong. Even if we because it's America,
if we do it that way, there's a chance that
it could be perceived as us.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
You know, a green that it was that some fault
was ours, And.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
So it's really tricky like these things. That's my point
is that this stuff is really tricky, and that's.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Using Gantum as an example. You know, do you change
do you go back and redesign the fixtures?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So so what we have done in those cases is
just like what Universal did. So we've redone the packaging,
we've readone the labels, we've read on the training, we've
readone all of the like operationally, this is how you
do it, and we don't redesign fixtures. So this is
why I'm saying I totally empathize with Universal, Like, yeah,
it's like because we know there's nothing wrong with the design,
it's just user error. But then the problem is there's
(15:21):
so many Again, it's just like this blame game which
is like, what's happening here. It's like the designer is
the one in some cases that designed it improperly, but
in sometimes it's not the designer. Maybe it's the installer. Right,
There's so many people involved, and none of them want
to take the blame, so they just say, well, it
was faulty manufacturing, and we're like, well, we can prove
it's not. So all you can really do in some
(15:43):
of those cases is just make sure that there's packaging
and stickers and there's warning labels all over.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
The thing, like don't put outside you know well. And
it's the example that I that comes to my mind
is the warning on cigarettes. The warning on cigare in
the United States is, and I just looked it up,
smoking cigarettes maybe hazardous to your health. If you ever
see cigarettes outside the US, it is something as blatant
(16:09):
as smoking kills you don't or quit now. I mean
it is that it is that straightforward. So I think
that in changing their signage, you know, we we like
to think of it and kind of brushed it off
as if it was lip service. But I think by
making the signage more straightforward, even more aggressive, yep, then
(16:32):
you know, the uh, the hopefully, hopefully it will, you know,
dissuade people from writing. The next question that comes up
in my mind, however, is I put on my DEI
a hat and I think about accessibility and for guests
in wheelchairs who simply cannot walk, cannot walk independently, does
(16:59):
the does does this somehow impact of a DA regulations?
Does it somehow impact the feeling that guests and wheelchairs
are going to have towards the park, you know, because
it's this This didn't just change, by the way, it
didn't just change for for startus racers. It also multiple
(17:23):
changed for multiple rides, so they're they're trying to get
ahead of the game as well, and they're the three
three of the most popular rides. From my understanding at EPIC,
you must be able to walk independently from your wheelchair
to get into the ride. So I guess my question
is because I think about this when I went back
(17:44):
in the days when I was working in the parks
and I had guests and wheelchairs who would say, you know,
you have us taking for the concerts, for example, you
have us taking our wheelchair out across the sand and
that is very difficult. And I said, yes, but it
does meet the ADA standards, and their argument was, well,
the ADA standards are not right because I'm I am
(18:05):
a guest in a wheelchair, so therefore I can tell
you this is this is difficult. Are you trying to
be discriminatory against us, whether you are breaking the law
or not, And so it is. It's a very very
fine line. It's it's no different than you know, going
back to universal again, when Wizarding World of Harry Potter
(18:27):
first opened, and they they only they didn't have, as
they referred to it, Hagrid sized seats, so people who
are people who are a combined height and weight were
unable to ride because the the safety restraint did not
close fully.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Was the same with a Forbidden Journey, not just Hagrid,
but before that it was Forbidden Joney Too Journey as well.
I remember being in line opening day with someone who
we waited eight hours and he wasn't allowed to ride.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah when we got up there. Yeah, so you.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Know, But at the same time, I gotta say, you know,
I I, as someone knowing my physical limitations, I would
not I would not invest in a full data trampoline
park because I'm going to get about five minutes and
then I'm going to be watching everybody else jump up
(19:20):
and down for a while. I'm not gonna go rock
climbing because that's just outside of my abilities. Now I
realize they're going to be people who think that I'm
being callous and glib about it. I'm not. I'm not.
I think it. I do think it is a very
fine line, and I think it is a discussion that
needs to happen. And perhaps, you know, if that we
(19:40):
discover that there are people who are in wheelchairs who
are upset about this, you know, maybe maybe there needs
to be alternative offers. Maybe there needs to just simply
be very clear. I think very clear statement. But again,
very clear statement is difficult here in the United States
if you're listening to outside because.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
For reasons I just said, yeah, it is very difficult
because people use it as a way to reverse in
and say, well, then you knew that there was fault,
or you open without X Y Z, or you know,
you know, why did you even put this product there
if you thought there might be some sort of And
the next and the.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Next thing that happens is someone comes up and says,
you know, why does why does universal hate people in wheelchairs.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's right, that's right. Yeah, it gets crazy. So I
think I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I think we've said everything we want to say, and
Scott and I both shared our points. Again, I still
think that they from a PR standpoint, you know, the
PR person to me is always like, I think they
should have made a different a gesture above and beyond. However,
so the CEO, well, that's what I'm saying. The CEO
had of me though, understands why they can't because if
(20:44):
they do anything else beyond changing these operational guidelines, then
it's going to be perceived in court as something that,
you know, as some sort of admission of fault.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
So they can't do anything.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So maybe after this, this might be a thing where
we wait and see, after this completely wraps up, maybe
in the future they'll do something differently with a new ride,
or you know, maybe they'll keep adjusting and keep tweaking
for the future. But I think that again, even if
they want to do something else, I don't think they
can just from a just from the fact this is
(21:19):
still an ongoing case.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that we
have we have discussed all of the options and all
of the at least the thoughts that the two of
us have. And I started this way, I'm going to
end this way. Are our condolences go out to the families,
and our condolences go out to anyone who is who
is because of the new restrictions, unable to ride this attraction.
But you know, we still need to accessibility. Just like diversity,
(21:46):
equity and inclusion. Accessibility is a journey and we need
to continue to keep it top of mind and hopefully
make certain that we make choices that allow the most
number of guests to participate in everything that we have
to offer.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So speaking of journeys, Yeah, that's a pretty good h
you know, it's a good good segue. So we discussed
at length Horror Unleashed, which is Universal's new year round
horror experience in Las Vegas at Area fifteen. I went
there for the media preview and we discussed a many
(22:20):
episodes back about what it was like and whatnot. But
the quick recap is there are four it's all indoors.
There are four haunted houses, and then there are themed bars,
and then the connective tissue is like a giant scare
zone right with roaming characters so we discussed back then.
The biggest element, my biggest concern with it for this
(22:41):
whole time has been what are they going to do
when it comes like January February time period and it's
a Wednesday in February, and who's going to be going
to see haunted houses? You know, especially at the price point,
which is pretty maybe not steep for Vegas, but steep
I think for independent attractions. So that's always been my concern. Now,
(23:03):
when I spoke to the folks there, interviewed them, they
had always been talking about how this was going to
be an evolving project and they're going to be adjusting
as it goes, basically. And we have the first press
release out this week about what they some of the
plants they have. So they are going to do a
Christmas overlay. It's called the Legend of the dark Yule.
Crampus and Kin debuts this November at the new Universal
(23:26):
Horror Unleashed in Las Vegas. It says guests can enjoy
the all new immersive holiday experience featuring legendary creatures, erie
photo ops, and seasonal delights at the year round horror
spectacle Cramper Cramper crampis and Kin. Crampus and Kin offers
guests and eerie twists on the holidays where they'll encounter
monstrous mists of dark Yule like Crampus, Gryla and I
(23:48):
can't pronounce that, guess we'll brave the terror of these
ancient andities in photo ops where they can pose with
Carampus on its suwosted throne, step in the Griila's cauldron,
or stand beneath the cursed canopy of the writing tree.
The character that you can't pronounce it, I can't know what,
I can't even begin to. In addition to photo ops,
they'll witness grand professional that'll fill the abandoned warehouse as
creatures and their unearthly powers unearthly followers parade through, leaving
(24:13):
behind tokens of their legend. So from reading all of
this press speak, it sounds like what they're going to
do is not change the haunted houses themselves, but basically
change that flex area that they TJ talked about when
I interviewed him. That's the flex area they have around
the stage where they have Jack Jack's show now, but
it's built to be a flex more flex area. So
(24:35):
it sounds like they're going to add in photo ops
with Crampus and the other creatures, and then add a
kind of like a Crampish Nott parade that will go
through professional they'll go through.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah. Well, and I think the easiest way to explain
it is kind of the way they did too, which
is to say, it's not a haunted house. It is
a series of activations taking place for a limited amount
of time. So I think I think that's well, I
mean it is. It's not a They're not changing out
the haunts. They're They're just adding an activation, just like
you know, most theme parks don't change out the roller coasters. Yeah,
(25:12):
but I love it. I think it's I think it
is such an intelligent approach. It is so on brand,
especially for the first year. I think that it is
less potentially offensive than doing like a wretched Santa Claus.
I think ye knocked and keeping all of the winter
(25:33):
solstice and winter creepy creatures is super smart. You know that.
It's even even in Christmas carols we hear about telling
old ghost stories. You know, one of the best ghost
stories in the world is actually Charles Dickens, you know,
So it's it makes sense. It's so on brand. It's
(25:56):
so unique. And as I always ask my clients, what
is something you can do that nobody else can away with?
And this is clearly that.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, I would push back a little bit. I think
almost everyone does crampus. I mean my like local Burger
Joint does crampus, right, I mean like everyone does it.
So I think that do they do a crampusnock parade? Yes,
not the local burgers Joint, but we have plenty of
local Burger Joint does not do a full parade. We
do have plenty of them here. We actually even have
a Los Angeles Crampis troop that does a parade all
(26:26):
around Los Angeles at different dates. So and we see
that at the conventions, Cosplay Conventions, Horror. I mean, so
I agree with you rit large. I do think that
it is it's it's the best way to utilize the
space because all you need to do is add in
some seasonal decor. And I also think that Vegas has
(26:50):
does have a market for this, like the Area fifteen
usually does some holiday stuff. They do like a Nimer
for Christmas immersive sing along which sells pretty well, and
they have a pop up bars that are all spooky
themed and they have a bunch of it's a they
have a culture in that region for this type of
holiday overlay type of thing. I would only push back
on the uniqueness of it, like I think that Crampus
(27:12):
is done in a lot of all over the country,
it's done. They are at least over There are at
least one hundred events that I have a list of
that Crampis is featured.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
In, but I bet they don't include Griyla.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I think Griyla is a good twist. Yeah, I think
we can't pronounce yeah that one. And I like the
idea of the photo ops because we've just talked about
how important photo ops are and how everyone wants to
take make content and do that. So I think if
they could position this, you know, as like the spooky
holiday destination for for Vegas, where it could be the
(27:46):
most immersive and the most quality one. Because most of
the other pop ups are independent places, you know, doing
trying to try and just making. They don't have universals
carpenters and universe painters and fabricators. So I think the
reverse has the potential here to do something much on
a much grander scale. I'm still going to be curious
(28:08):
to see if it'll push the needle over, because I'm
just thinking of myself, like internally, would I pay to
go again? And I don't me personally, I'm not sure
that I would, just because it's still pretty expensive and again,
what am I paying for? Well, to me, it'd be
just paying for the Crampis items, because I've already seen
(28:29):
the haunted houses.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think we'll have to wait and see, you know,
just if it will encourage new visitations. I think the
question is are you encouraging new visitation or is it
just going to be people who couldn't make it during
the Halloween season that are coming to see it for
the first time.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Or is it a tipping point for people who are
in Vegas over the Christmas holidays.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, and maybe they were like I wouldn't go.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I wouldn't go if it was just the hunted houses.
But they're doing Crampus and they're doing Gila and so
they're doing it. And again we said this when we
talked when we reported on this originally too. We have
to recognize this is not for us, Philip, This is
we are not their target audience.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's right, and even me, I think, I think the
reason I'm so blase about it is even because I've
done so many Crampus events, right that I'm like, but like,
to your point, someone who hasn't done Crampus events and
who maybe's only seen only heard about Crampus in passing
this could that could be really fun, especially if they're
in Vegas well, and if even if.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
There are people who are familiar with Crampus events. The
fact that this is Crampus and Kin and has the
two others and has other storytelling with various other cultures.
My guess is they sat around a brainstorming table and
they went, yeah, there's a lot of Crampus events out there,
maybe we should add something. And they do have the
they had the Grampus movie or is that legendary?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Sorry? Am I mixing my aps up? It has the
campus movie.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I have no idea. I have no idea, but I
do think that it's I do think it's a great
fit for them, and I think that you know, as
you say, is it enough to make a return visit
for locals that I don't know, although I know some
people who would spend the ticket price to just get
a great crampus photo for their Christmas card. I know
(30:08):
those people, so none of them live in Vegas, but
I know those people. Anyway, that is the end. You know,
we're ending. We're ending on a festive note, or at
least festive for us. This Halloween season's booky festive, booky
festive note. We're out of time. Guys, Thank you so
much for listening or watching. If you are watching, please
like and subscribe. That really helps us out so that
(30:31):
we can continue to do this and continue to bring
this information to you. Continue to ask questions. We love that,
And if you'd like to join us for Unhinged, please
join our Patreon Patreon supported second show where we kind
of dig deep. And this week we are digging deep
into media kits and press and specifically targeting the haunted
(30:54):
attraction industry because that's kind of the industry that is
most prevalent this time of year. So until next time
on behalf of Philipernandez. I'm Scott Swenson and this is
Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will see
you next week.
All right from our studios this week in Detroit and Tampa.
This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip
and I'm joined as always been my co host Scott Sweinson,
Scott Sweitzson and Creativelopment. On Green Tag, we look at
the week's top news and explain why it matters to
business professionals in the theme entertainment space. And today Stardust
Racers has reopened and we are looking at why.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And everything around it.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Yeah, what happened? Well, and I think I think before
we even start, I think we have to to kind
of clear the air and say, this is a terrible
thing we have. You know, we are very sorry for
the the the loss of a human life, and our
respect and our condolences go out to the family and
(00:47):
friends of Kevin and we hope that you know that
they are able to overcome this. But we want to
look at this from a business standpoint. We want to
look at this from an operational standpoint, because again that's
the sort of point of view of this particular podcast.
We are not saying, we are not saying anything negative
about the victim or their families. We are just here
(01:11):
to kind of review how it's being handled and discuss,
you know, kind of our opinions and our viewpoints based
on our many years in the industry as to how
this has evolved and is probably will continue to evolve.
So our condolences to the family, and now let's look
at it from a from a business standpoint and see
(01:33):
how that unravels.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Also, we're not attorneys. Uh right, Yeah, where you to
add that disclosure? We are not attorneys. Scott does is
and I op a certified instructor and does train and
I am i K certified, so we have those backgrounds,
but we are not attorneys.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
We're also not at financial advisors. But you know, just
we're getting them all out there, all the disclosures.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yes, I'm not a doctor, nor have I ever Edward
on television.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So basically, if I'm going to try and summarize sum
this up. We talked about the news last time when
it broke about the death that happened, and we had
reported previously that the autopsy had ruled it an accident previously,
and then it was closed for a while and now
Universal has announced that it's reopening, and it seems like
(02:25):
they are reopening it, but they are changing a few
of the they're changing the signage outside the right, and
they're also changing some of the guidelines in the safety
protocols in the handbooks for this. That's what I understand.
They're changing these elements. We're going to link to an article,
a great article from click on Orlando that kind of
(02:48):
goes through all the changes in detail, but also includes
some quotes from both from both sides on this. And
if we're looking at specifically, some of the sections that
have changed, so it says an updated symbol legend for
all attractions, more rider requirements for attractions including stars racers,
and new language covering the topics of guests using wheelchairs.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
That's what's been changed.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I think what they removed, So what it used
to say inside the employee or inside the guidebook was
you must be able to take a small step into
the ride vehicle compartment, either independently or with assistance from
your companion. So that has been removed, and what they
have added in its place is that guests using mobility
(03:36):
devices must be able to walk independently. And it says
and that's been added into the guests using wheelchair sections,
and that seems to be the biggest shift is a
change from being able to walk with assistance or move
with assistance to being able to walk independently. And I
think that to me, that's the biggest thing, because that's
(03:56):
a very big difference.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Well, and I think that you know the reasoning behind
that because you have to recognize you know, we all know.
Anybody in the industry knows that anybody who wants to
ride a roller coaster will tell the operator anything they
want to hear so that they can ride the roller coaster.
I'm not saying that's what happened here, but by saying
(04:18):
must be able to walk independently, it changes what they
must demonstrates as their what their disability does and does
not allow them to do. If you can walk independently,
you can hold yourself upright, And that seems to be
again not an expert, but based on everything that we've
read and based on everything that we've seen, that seems
(04:38):
to have been part of the situation, part of the
reason that unfortunately the coaster took a human life. That's
so I think that by demonstrating that you can't ask
somebody can you sit up? But if you can make them,
you know, if you make the safety restriction, they must
be able to walk two or three steps unassisted. That
(05:00):
proves doesn't ask, it proves that you can set up
to ride the ride, and if that was indeed the issue,
hopefully that will help reduce any misconceptions or or it
will clarify the safety requirements for the ride.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
And on that point too, the symbol that they added,
so I was reading from the section the wheelchair guests
with wheelchair section, but there also is the as I mentioned,
the signage that's out front, and I'm reading here it
says that that they What they have done is they've
added a red circle with a diagonal line crossing it,
(05:41):
and the symbol means a guess should not board an
attraction if they have weakened bones or muscles, if they
have the inability to independently maintain upright position, which is
what you just said, or if they have any other
conditions which may be aggravated. So that's so it seems
like they've they're trying to also convey what you're saying,
with like the symbol that outside the ride to be
looking for that. So it's changed all the signage in
(06:02):
addition to adding that clarity inside of of the you know,
the operations.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And the thing I think we need to reinforce here
is all of the investigations that took place, and there
were many after this. There was an internal investigation, there
was an investigation by the ride manufacturer, there was an
investigation obviously by the police, and then there was an
investigation by a third party, an independent third party, and
(06:30):
all of them came back saying that before, during, and
after the situation, the ride was operating within the the
operating standards that were there. Now the argument could be made,
but someone still died. Why, Yeah, so well that on
that point. So, as Scott mentioned, you know, on the
(06:54):
Universal side, and they've given statements and all of those
those people have have ruled it an accident. However, obviously
the family is not happy about this, and they their
counsel and the family and selfso put out statements that
kind of talk to what Scott was saying. So first
the family statement, the parents. The parents said, by rushing
(07:15):
to reopen this ride as if nothing happened, Universal is
showing great disregard for Kevin's life, our family's pain, and
the safety of every rider who steps onto that coaster.
We are horrified that Universal would put the ride back
into operation so quickly. That's a statement from the parents
and then the legal counsel. What the Loop Council said
is a slightly different argument, but it's speaking to what
Scottle was just mentioning. Basically, they said, startus Racers is
(07:37):
evidence of an active death investigation. Reopening the ride before
our experts can examine every component is unadulterated, spoilage of evidence,
a grave risk public safety, and puts profits over people's lives.
Universal reportedly told employees the ride functioned as intended. If
that is accurate, then the design itself is deadly. We
(07:58):
are demanding the Universal pause reopening, preserve all evidence, and
allow our experts to inspect it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
If they refuse, we will address Universsel's callous actions in court.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So I guess at least the council is claiming they
not everybody that's supposed to inspected have inspected it, So
they're experts of not inspected.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
It so well, but they're always they're always going to
I think both of these statements are filled with emotion. Obviously,
the families makes total sense that they would be filled
with emotion. Yeah, they are there's the way it reads,
you know, and I'm not gonna I'm not going to
judge them because they are emotional about losing a family member.
(08:39):
But again, it is very emotionally based, you know, to
say that it risks the life of every writer. Anytime
absolute statements are made, they are usually incorrect. Yeah, you know, absolutes.
You know, every writer was not endangered because every writer
has not been injured or or you know, So we
have to we have to kind of take that and
take that with a I don't want to say grain
(09:00):
of salt, but they've just lost a family member, so
obviously they're going to have an outpouring of emotion and
they're going to state things in a very emotional way,
and I can't fault them for that looking at the
council's statement. Usually usually an attorney and again not an attorney,
(09:23):
but have been involved or aware of different situations regarding.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, when you were working with Parks and entire your career,
you've always encountered situations like this, and you've been on
both ends of the attorney.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Absolutely, and the attorneys quite often will do everything they
can to delay a reopening, to make something to to
help to help cause the park to lose money so
that they are more likely to settle quickly. That's right,
(10:00):
So I understand his point of view as well or
her point of view. I don't know whether always his
point of view. I know who it is his point
of view. So uh again, to say that the internal view,
the police view, the third party contract or the third party,
the outside third party, and the vendor are all completely wrong,
(10:21):
I think that's a little bold.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I think that's and.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
As far as evidence goes, the the evidence seems to be.
You know, you can look at the growing number of
writers who have ridden and not been injured. To me,
that continues to build evidence against his case. So of
course he wants to keep it closed.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I I agree with that definitely. You know, especially with
the attorney always has to argue their for their client right,
so they're always taking it and that's their job. So
I think I think they're doing their job, and I
think that statement is a pretty Now, I think that
statement is pretty good statement considering that they have to
do their job about it. So it's it's it's a
good angle to take with it. Right now, what I
(11:05):
would say, I'm say two things, So reviewing all this information,
I'm actually I do feel like Universal should have done
something else.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
And that is just because.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
For for when our background, when it comes you know,
to manufacturing or anything, when it comes to this theme
park stuff, it's always overcorrect if you if there's a problem,
you always overcorrect. And then when we're in customer service,
we all understand that it doesn't matter if it was
actually our fault. It's always our fault. You know, it's
like the weather. It's not our fault, but it's our fault.
You know, everything is.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Unless unless it's an earnings call, and then it's.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, correct, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
But so that's from from that standpoint, I do think
that it seems, uh, it does seem a little callous
where the only changes were changes that were not really
things you could market, right, even though I think the
changes are good, Like I actually applaud the operations. I
think the way they change the books and they don'tulture
I think that's all. That's what I like to hear.
(12:02):
As a nerd, I'm like, oh, this is great, but
as Scott is always saying, you know, like that doesn't
sell tickets, and I think something more from a PR
thing would would have I think at least been a
better gesture. However, all that being said, I don't think
the Universal can because it is an open case and
this is the problem, and this is also something that
(12:24):
we've encountered. So it's just it's for those of you
that are international listeners, it may seem weird, but America
is a really litigious country. And so the problem with
I think with Universal making any sort of other gesture,
even though I just said that they should, and even
though I believe that, I think that the problem with
it is that while this is still going through the court,
(12:45):
they almost can't do it because if they do anything
that could be seen as evidence that they that they
might be admitting to fault of some kind.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Or worse yet, or worse yet knowingly allowing this to
have and because again they knew that it was not safe.
So I personally don't believe quite honestly.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah, So for example, I just want to give a
quick example from our Suffer manufacturing. So you know, we
in the past there's been some instances where you know,
we have we manufacture lights, and of course our lights
are not meant to be outdoor full full year round,
like you know, they shouldn't go through free cycles, they
(13:28):
shouldn't be buried in water of more than one foot
of pressure. You know, there are some things that are
pretty obvious, like when you buy them, we're like, this
is not meant for this, and don't do it, and
we will tell everyone not to do it. So there's
been some attractions such I won't name names, but there's
been attractions in the past that have put them like
in snow, like buried them in snow, or put them
in the bottom of a large water fountain or inside
of a water jets and none of these things are allowed,
(13:50):
right And then of course they get upset and they
blame us, and we're like, we use them in properly.
But again back to my point, even if it was
the designer that is the one that specified it in
the wrong way, the end client, you know, the attraction
still blames us, right because the designer puts the blame
onto us. And in some cases, you know where even
(14:11):
where I have wanted to send replacements to just work
with them because we want the project to be successful,
we you know, our legal councils even told us not
to because if we send replacements to a thing where
we know that they install them improperly, then it's kind
of like we're admitting to something even though we're not.
So even though it's like we want to do the
(14:31):
nice thing and just help them, even though we know
that they did it wrong. Even if we because it's America,
if we do it that way, there's a chance that
it could be perceived as us.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
You know, a green that it was that some fault
was ours, And.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
So it's really tricky like these things. That's my point
is that this stuff is really tricky, and that's.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Using Gantum as an example. You know, do you change
do you go back and redesign the fixtures?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
So so what we have done in those cases is
just like what Universal did. So we've redone the packaging,
we've readone the labels, we've read on the training, we've
readone all of the like operationally, this is how you
do it, and we don't redesign fixtures. So this is
why I'm saying I totally empathize with Universal, Like, yeah,
it's like because we know there's nothing wrong with the design,
it's just user error. But then the problem is there's
(15:21):
so many Again, it's just like this blame game which
is like, what's happening here. It's like the designer is
the one in some cases that designed it improperly, but
in sometimes it's not the designer. Maybe it's the installer. Right,
There's so many people involved, and none of them want
to take the blame, so they just say, well, it
was faulty manufacturing, and we're like, well, we can prove
it's not. So all you can really do in some
(15:43):
of those cases is just make sure that there's packaging
and stickers and there's warning labels all over.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
The thing, like don't put outside you know well. And
it's the example that I that comes to my mind
is the warning on cigarettes. The warning on cigare in
the United States is, and I just looked it up,
smoking cigarettes maybe hazardous to your health. If you ever
see cigarettes outside the US, it is something as blatant
(16:09):
as smoking kills you don't or quit now. I mean
it is that it is that straightforward. So I think
that in changing their signage, you know, we we like
to think of it and kind of brushed it off
as if it was lip service. But I think by
making the signage more straightforward, even more aggressive, yep, then
(16:32):
you know, the uh, the hopefully, hopefully it will, you know,
dissuade people from writing. The next question that comes up
in my mind, however, is I put on my DEI
a hat and I think about accessibility and for guests
in wheelchairs who simply cannot walk, cannot walk independently, does
(16:59):
the does does this somehow impact of a DA regulations?
Does it somehow impact the feeling that guests and wheelchairs
are going to have towards the park, you know, because
it's this This didn't just change, by the way, it
didn't just change for for startus racers. It also multiple
(17:23):
changed for multiple rides, so they're they're trying to get
ahead of the game as well, and they're the three
three of the most popular rides. From my understanding at EPIC,
you must be able to walk independently from your wheelchair
to get into the ride. So I guess my question
is because I think about this when I went back
(17:44):
in the days when I was working in the parks
and I had guests and wheelchairs who would say, you know,
you have us taking for the concerts, for example, you
have us taking our wheelchair out across the sand and
that is very difficult. And I said, yes, but it
does meet the ADA standards, and their argument was, well,
the ADA standards are not right because I'm I am
(18:05):
a guest in a wheelchair, so therefore I can tell
you this is this is difficult. Are you trying to
be discriminatory against us, whether you are breaking the law
or not, And so it is. It's a very very
fine line. It's it's no different than you know, going
back to universal again, when Wizarding World of Harry Potter
(18:27):
first opened, and they they only they didn't have, as
they referred to it, Hagrid sized seats, so people who
are people who are a combined height and weight were
unable to ride because the the safety restraint did not
close fully.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Was the same with a Forbidden Journey, not just Hagrid,
but before that it was Forbidden Joney Too Journey as well.
I remember being in line opening day with someone who
we waited eight hours and he wasn't allowed to ride.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah when we got up there. Yeah, so you.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Know, But at the same time, I gotta say, you know,
I I, as someone knowing my physical limitations, I would
not I would not invest in a full data trampoline
park because I'm going to get about five minutes and
then I'm going to be watching everybody else jump up
(19:20):
and down for a while. I'm not gonna go rock
climbing because that's just outside of my abilities. Now I
realize they're going to be people who think that I'm
being callous and glib about it. I'm not. I'm not.
I think it. I do think it is a very
fine line, and I think it is a discussion that
needs to happen. And perhaps, you know, if that we
(19:40):
discover that there are people who are in wheelchairs who
are upset about this, you know, maybe maybe there needs
to be alternative offers. Maybe there needs to just simply
be very clear. I think very clear statement. But again,
very clear statement is difficult here in the United States
if you're listening to outside because.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
For reasons I just said, yeah, it is very difficult
because people use it as a way to reverse in
and say, well, then you knew that there was fault,
or you open without X Y Z, or you know,
you know, why did you even put this product there
if you thought there might be some sort of And
the next and the.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Next thing that happens is someone comes up and says,
you know, why does why does universal hate people in wheelchairs.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's right, that's right. Yeah, it gets crazy. So I
think I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I think we've said everything we want to say, and
Scott and I both shared our points. Again, I still
think that they from a PR standpoint, you know, the
PR person to me is always like, I think they
should have made a different a gesture above and beyond. However,
so the CEO, well, that's what I'm saying. The CEO
had of me though, understands why they can't because if
(20:44):
they do anything else beyond changing these operational guidelines, then
it's going to be perceived in court as something that,
you know, as some sort of admission of fault.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
So they can't do anything.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So maybe after this, this might be a thing where
we wait and see, after this completely wraps up, maybe
in the future they'll do something differently with a new ride,
or you know, maybe they'll keep adjusting and keep tweaking
for the future. But I think that again, even if
they want to do something else, I don't think they
can just from a just from the fact this is
(21:19):
still an ongoing case.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, I agree with you, and I think that we
have we have discussed all of the options and all
of the at least the thoughts that the two of
us have. And I started this way, I'm going to
end this way. Are our condolences go out to the families,
and our condolences go out to anyone who is who
is because of the new restrictions, unable to ride this attraction.
But you know, we still need to accessibility. Just like diversity,
(21:46):
equity and inclusion. Accessibility is a journey and we need
to continue to keep it top of mind and hopefully
make certain that we make choices that allow the most
number of guests to participate in everything that we have
to offer.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
So speaking of journeys, Yeah, that's a pretty good h
you know, it's a good good segue. So we discussed
at length Horror Unleashed, which is Universal's new year round
horror experience in Las Vegas at Area fifteen. I went
there for the media preview and we discussed a many
(22:20):
episodes back about what it was like and whatnot. But
the quick recap is there are four it's all indoors.
There are four haunted houses, and then there are themed bars,
and then the connective tissue is like a giant scare
zone right with roaming characters so we discussed back then.
The biggest element, my biggest concern with it for this
(22:41):
whole time has been what are they going to do
when it comes like January February time period and it's
a Wednesday in February, and who's going to be going
to see haunted houses? You know, especially at the price point,
which is pretty maybe not steep for Vegas, but steep
I think for independent attractions. So that's always been my concern. Now,
(23:03):
when I spoke to the folks there, interviewed them, they
had always been talking about how this was going to
be an evolving project and they're going to be adjusting
as it goes, basically. And we have the first press
release out this week about what they some of the
plants they have. So they are going to do a
Christmas overlay. It's called the Legend of the dark Yule.
Crampus and Kin debuts this November at the new Universal
(23:26):
Horror Unleashed in Las Vegas. It says guests can enjoy
the all new immersive holiday experience featuring legendary creatures, erie
photo ops, and seasonal delights at the year round horror
spectacle Cramper Cramper crampis and Kin. Crampus and Kin offers
guests and eerie twists on the holidays where they'll encounter
monstrous mists of dark Yule like Crampus, Gryla and I
(23:48):
can't pronounce that, guess we'll brave the terror of these
ancient andities in photo ops where they can pose with
Carampus on its suwosted throne, step in the Griila's cauldron,
or stand beneath the cursed canopy of the writing tree.
The character that you can't pronounce it, I can't know what,
I can't even begin to. In addition to photo ops,
they'll witness grand professional that'll fill the abandoned warehouse as
creatures and their unearthly powers unearthly followers parade through, leaving
(24:13):
behind tokens of their legend. So from reading all of
this press speak, it sounds like what they're going to
do is not change the haunted houses themselves, but basically
change that flex area that they TJ talked about when
I interviewed him. That's the flex area they have around
the stage where they have Jack Jack's show now, but
it's built to be a flex more flex area. So
(24:35):
it sounds like they're going to add in photo ops
with Crampus and the other creatures, and then add a
kind of like a Crampish Nott parade that will go
through professional they'll go through.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah. Well, and I think the easiest way to explain
it is kind of the way they did too, which
is to say, it's not a haunted house. It is
a series of activations taking place for a limited amount
of time. So I think I think that's well, I
mean it is. It's not a They're not changing out
the haunts. They're They're just adding an activation, just like
you know, most theme parks don't change out the roller coasters. Yeah,
(25:12):
but I love it. I think it's I think it
is such an intelligent approach. It is so on brand,
especially for the first year. I think that it is
less potentially offensive than doing like a wretched Santa Claus.
I think ye knocked and keeping all of the winter
(25:33):
solstice and winter creepy creatures is super smart. You know that.
It's even even in Christmas carols we hear about telling
old ghost stories. You know, one of the best ghost
stories in the world is actually Charles Dickens, you know,
So it's it makes sense. It's so on brand. It's
(25:56):
so unique. And as I always ask my clients, what
is something you can do that nobody else can away with?
And this is clearly that.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, I would push back a little bit. I think
almost everyone does crampus. I mean my like local Burger
Joint does crampus, right, I mean like everyone does it.
So I think that do they do a crampusnock parade? Yes,
not the local burgers Joint, but we have plenty of
local Burger Joint does not do a full parade. We
do have plenty of them here. We actually even have
a Los Angeles Crampis troop that does a parade all
(26:26):
around Los Angeles at different dates. So and we see
that at the conventions, Cosplay Conventions, Horror. I mean, so
I agree with you rit large. I do think that
it is it's it's the best way to utilize the
space because all you need to do is add in
some seasonal decor. And I also think that Vegas has
(26:50):
does have a market for this, like the Area fifteen
usually does some holiday stuff. They do like a Nimer
for Christmas immersive sing along which sells pretty well, and
they have a pop up bars that are all spooky
themed and they have a bunch of it's a they
have a culture in that region for this type of
holiday overlay type of thing. I would only push back
on the uniqueness of it, like I think that Crampus
(27:12):
is done in a lot of all over the country,
it's done. They are at least over There are at
least one hundred events that I have a list of
that Crampis is featured.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
In, but I bet they don't include Griyla.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I think Griyla is a good twist. Yeah, I think
we can't pronounce yeah that one. And I like the
idea of the photo ops because we've just talked about
how important photo ops are and how everyone wants to
take make content and do that. So I think if
they could position this, you know, as like the spooky
holiday destination for for Vegas, where it could be the
(27:46):
most immersive and the most quality one. Because most of
the other pop ups are independent places, you know, doing
trying to try and just making. They don't have universals
carpenters and universe painters and fabricators. So I think the
reverse has the potential here to do something much on
a much grander scale. I'm still going to be curious
(28:08):
to see if it'll push the needle over, because I'm
just thinking of myself, like internally, would I pay to
go again? And I don't me personally, I'm not sure
that I would, just because it's still pretty expensive and again,
what am I paying for? Well, to me, it'd be
just paying for the Crampis items, because I've already seen
(28:29):
the haunted houses.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
So I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I think we'll have to wait and see, you know,
just if it will encourage new visitations. I think the
question is are you encouraging new visitation or is it
just going to be people who couldn't make it during
the Halloween season that are coming to see it for
the first time.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Or is it a tipping point for people who are
in Vegas over the Christmas holidays.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, and maybe they were like I wouldn't go.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I wouldn't go if it was just the hunted houses.
But they're doing Crampus and they're doing Gila and so
they're doing it. And again we said this when we
talked when we reported on this originally too. We have
to recognize this is not for us, Philip, This is
we are not their target audience.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's right, and even me, I think, I think the
reason I'm so blase about it is even because I've
done so many Crampus events, right that I'm like, but like,
to your point, someone who hasn't done Crampus events and
who maybe's only seen only heard about Crampus in passing
this could that could be really fun, especially if they're
in Vegas well, and if even if.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
There are people who are familiar with Crampus events. The
fact that this is Crampus and Kin and has the
two others and has other storytelling with various other cultures.
My guess is they sat around a brainstorming table and
they went, yeah, there's a lot of Crampus events out there,
maybe we should add something. And they do have the
they had the Grampus movie or is that legendary?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Sorry? Am I mixing my aps up? It has the
campus movie.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I have no idea. I have no idea, but I
do think that it's I do think it's a great
fit for them, and I think that you know, as
you say, is it enough to make a return visit
for locals that I don't know, although I know some
people who would spend the ticket price to just get
a great crampus photo for their Christmas card. I know
(30:08):
those people, so none of them live in Vegas, but
I know those people. Anyway, that is the end. You know,
we're ending. We're ending on a festive note, or at
least festive for us. This Halloween season's booky festive, booky
festive note. We're out of time. Guys, Thank you so
much for listening or watching. If you are watching, please
like and subscribe. That really helps us out so that
(30:31):
we can continue to do this and continue to bring
this information to you. Continue to ask questions. We love that,
And if you'd like to join us for Unhinged, please
join our Patreon Patreon supported second show where we kind
of dig deep. And this week we are digging deep
into media kits and press and specifically targeting the haunted
(30:54):
attraction industry because that's kind of the industry that is
most prevalent this time of year. So until next time
on behalf of Philipernandez. I'm Scott Swenson and this is
Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will see
you next week.
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