INTEGRITY EPISODE #4: “The Art of saying NO!" Guest: Katherine Le

We talk with one of the most powerful woman I know. She was the President of Stearns Lending. She shares her own journey of Grit, and how that has impacted how she moves through adversity in business. She played an intricate role in getting our company not only to survive the financial crisis of 2007, but actually thrive. She also shares her secret to the art of saying no in business. How to approach every person with compassion and give your very best to make it work.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hi, I'm Mindy Stern and thisis Grit Happens. On this show,
we engage in cannon conversations with someof the most successful people in every field
and from every walk of life,all with the common thread of grit and
the common goal of not just surviving, but thriving. And we hope this
show helps you feel informed, energized, and especially inspired. So let's get

(00:28):
started. This is it happens,Catherine. I'm so excited you're here.
Great seeing you. Glenn is lookingawesome. That's good. I've been seeing
him in a why but tell uzthat's right? Yeah? Good? Can
you believe he finally wrote You've beentalking about it for a while. Yeah,

(00:50):
for a long time. So final, so you can see look at
look at how's that cover? Lookdoesn't that look nice? You have no
idea? How many people call meabout really really growing the boy about time?
Well, let's go back. Iwant to go over this. A
lot of people that say, amI in the book? You were definitely
in the book. And because youhave a great story yourself, right,
I mean you, I'll talk aboutwhen you first met Catherine, talk about

(01:14):
how you got well again. Youknow a lot of my journey. Uh,
it's you know, you can takea lot of it through the business
side, and you were absolutely deadcenter in the middle of everything that ever
happened. And you know, wemet in nineteen eighty eight the call because

(01:34):
I just got out of college,came over and what I loved. You
were an underwriter that I was anunderwriter. Man, I don't even know
you became the head underwriter, butI don't know what you were at that
point, but you were underwriting lineright. I started in the business a
fresh shop from college as well,and I got out in eighty five and
mighty eight, I was the chiefwriter. I was just lucky, because

(01:59):
I don't thing that I have skippeda lot of years to get to be
a chief underwriter. I was justfortunate that was at the right place at
the right time. But what Iremember is I would come in and you
know, you would look at theseloans and it kind of got my because
when you're a loan officer and you'restarting, you get to work with different

(02:22):
underwriters and get different approaches and andI've always said this, and I still
to this day talk about how younever said no. People are like an
underwriter that never said no, likethat's something's wrong with that. And I
take that approach with the company today, which is we are not to ever
say no. And again, waitthen I got that intrite. She's the

(02:43):
only person that didn't say no toyou. I'm the one that says no
to a model that time. I'msorry, let me just but no.
But I'm getting to a point andit's really it's it's it's about how you
say things right, right, theart of saying no right. In her
case, you know, you geta file and it was really difficult and
there's something wrong. But instead ofsaying, look, we can't do this,

(03:04):
it was always look if you getanother cobar, or if you haven't
pay up a car, or ifif he just puts another eighty percent down,
you know, And then I'd walkout of there with a yes.
And you know, but you couldgo back and realize that, look,
people aren't gonna be able to puteighty percent down more right. But what
you did get out of it isthat you fought as hard as I did

(03:28):
to make sure we found a solutionright. And a lot of times there
isn't a sluc I have on wayfelt I have one way felt very compassionate
toward the people go out there hustlingand bringing in the deal because we as
operation people in the company, wellwe got a paycheck. And everybody that
actually even sale they just commissioned.So they I always felt like, oh

(03:52):
my goodness, they look really hardtrying to bringing a deal, and he
I am just you know, lookat it, and I have to find
a way. So I onways fountlike I either caught investor. I talk
about look at the deal and finda solution, and I think glances right
exactly about And so when people theyget into a company, and I've had
so many underwriters and different people thatthey feel like they're protecting the company when

(04:17):
they say no. I appreciate that. We all do. We want to
protect the company, but there's anart and how you say no right,
and how you led up from beingmy underwriter to coming on board to becoming
the president of company was really aboutthat culture of how we treat people.

(04:38):
And so that is what really wasprobably the underlying part of our success came
through that ability to really let peopleknow you were fighting just as hard as
they are. And that's what reallyI got out of you. I mean
when I went and looked at allthese other ways people did things. I

(04:59):
thought, that's special and that gotme thinking. And then, you know,
I try to get you for manyyears to come over, and you
know it took a little while.You don't want us to expand on that
idea of the yes getting the yes. I took a course in the Second
City. It was an improv courseand one of their main rules. There's
a very key element in creating astoryline and it works, I think.

(05:23):
And what you're saying is you neversay no in the sense that you don't
then you shut down the storyline.But if you say yes and and then
you create a new diversion. Andit's kind of like that in relationships in
business, Yes, and we canmake that happen at this Yes, we
also have to do this, youknow. I think it works in relationships

(05:44):
and business and families with children.You know, yes, you can do
that. And if you do yourroom first, and you can go out
of it. We became the numberone whole soul leunder in the country,
not by accident, and a lotof it had to do with the confidence
that people had in us as anexecutive team to figure out how to make

(06:05):
the customer feel good, and alot of that came through your ability and
in your personality of how that happened, and so that was a big part
of the you know, the successof our company. But I do want
to go back because I think it'sreally important you have a thought. Well.
I wanted to get Katherine's I wantto hear her backstory because I think

(06:27):
that's that's an incredible backstory about youas a woman in success and really talk
coming from a greedy beginning and overcominggrip. And then I also want to
get her take on what her impressionI was you when she first encountered you,
and kind of like that secret ofthe sauce of Glenn's brain, which
is so unique, I think.So let me start with what you were
going with. Okay, so yeah, I would love to hear that.

(06:49):
But what I do want to knowis, you know, again, you
didn't get to the chair by accidenteither. And you know, a lot
of people look at their past lifeand they end up maybe being stuck in
the fact that they maybe had ahard childhood or a hard upbringing, and

(07:12):
other people use it as fuel.Right, I know, your backstory,
do you mind explaining a little howyou're kind yeah here, So I think
it's kind of amazing. How asI look back and you know when you
go when I go through the youknow, they trying to get out the
country. You know, my momand dad wanted us to get out.

(07:32):
I wasn't visually from Vietnam, andmy parent really under the combination regime that
they felt like there's no future atall, so they wanted me to get
out. And I was like,was born in Saigon, was the city
girl. I really have never lefthome without my parents. I was fifteen
at the time when when we firsttry, and it was really odeal,

(07:57):
especially the first try wasn't success.So I was captured in prison and stay
there at fifteen and was really wasn'tsure where we go with this, and
my mom really had to try reallyhard and trying to find out where they
captured me so that she can writethem, write them the money and got
me out, and then she triedagain when I was seventeen. Um,

(08:24):
look back, my my journey certainlywas a pretty big ordeal for me because
I've never experienced something like that.Two and a half day at sea in
about fifty five footboat but they loadedtwo hundred and forty people, so five
ft oh yes, and so literallymy shoulder and I so the man was

(08:50):
all on a you know, onthe bottom deck and for me and a
woman we kind of sit like shouldertouching shoulder of same position for two and
a half day. And it actuallythe captain decided to take it all the
way at sea. So if weshipping lane, yes, the shipping lane
so so, because he was hopinginstead of going along the shoreline to go

(09:15):
to Malaysia Philippine. They they hewent out to the shipping lane and be
able to find some other big boat. We did, and and the Taiwany
fishing boat they they was they wasn'tagreeing to let us on at all.
It just hey, just give youfood and waters and then you just have
to continue to be on your way. And because it was a shipping boat,

(09:39):
so they only have few people andout our boat was tune in something
people, so the captain and thesailors on our boat pretty much forced his
hand. Yes, yes, andif it wasn't if we didn't do that.
That same night we we actually raninto the first storm and our boats

(10:03):
sound a minute, it's really allthose people could have died, yes,
but you were all on the biggerboat. Correct, correct, And it
was actually pretty odeal. Now forme, as after I got here and
learned from so many Vietnamese people aretrying to their their journey, I'm gonna
say I have always looked at itas a blessing. But compared to other

(10:24):
people, it was so awesome thatwe made it out nine days at sea
before they took us back to toum U, Taiwan. I mean one
of the small island, no foodjust of their little water every day,
no food at all for nine anda half day. And what we made

(10:45):
it. This story, it's sogood and if you want to read more
about it, it's in a bookcalled map and it's a what is it?
It's called management action program which thewhole company ended up going through in
the whole chapter on your story inthat book is available. Great management book
for any company, any company.But I think those stories, your story

(11:05):
um got you to where you aretoday, and that you know, so
we end up meeting and you werealready you know, she's quite even she
had strength because you know, andagain we go through our own experiences to
get where we are um. Youknow, I don't know. You know
many women that have had a journeylike yours, which then you ended up

(11:28):
being. Um, I think yougot a Woman of the Year. You've
got a lot of different accolades thatyou know, we were always proud of
because you know, you let ourcompany and you know, and and and
so again. A lot of peoplethink, well, it's luck, and
it's not luck. It's your journeyand and so so many people that have

(11:52):
gone through hardships, you know,they either get stuck on the past or
they they can figure out how tomake it work for them. I think
so. I mean, like mymom and my dad. I left Vietnam
without my parents, so being thatI was really young and never leave home
without my parents by my side,and then now I'm on my own with

(12:13):
my sibling. It's actually you youhave you come here in America when you
don't even speak the language and learnI started learning and everything everywhere I go.
I went with a dictionary, tryingto just be able to learn to
communicate. But it makes it,like you said, every everything, any

(12:33):
harship that anyone go through, youhave to look at it is there's a
reason why you experience what you experience, but you can overcome the challenge and
then become stronger. I absolutely think, and that probably because of that that
I always have gone through life feelingthat everything is a blessing. It really

(12:56):
is a blessing, I think.I think to expand on that, I
believe that your hardship is your strengths, and that's like the hard students support
these kids in into the worst hardship, but that becomes your strength, right,
And I think that you know,when we kind of take that because
again, you were not picked tobe present by accident. Things don't happen

(13:18):
a lot by accident. You know, in the book, we end up
in um, you know, takingthis company and growing it and going through
some really interesting times the financial crisisof two thousand and seven and eight or
one of those. Um. Butbefore we get there, she had a
question, Yes, you think,okay, so I don't know this answer.

(13:39):
You may not have all maybe youknew this that Glenn would be someone
who could weather a storm like twothousand and seven when you first out of
this, And what made you sayyes to working with him? What made
you say yeah? What was itabout him? Well, first of all,
I still remember my first conversation withGlenn Wham because as an I'm no
writer. You doing, you know, you take a lot of phone call

(14:00):
from record coming in, calling inabout loan five, about condition, and
I pick up the phone. Thenhe introduced himself on Soul from Stewart Write
in those years you work for sowrit as your first company, and I
remember he asked me question he wentthrough the loan fine. I said,
God, this guy is just sohonest. He told me he told me

(14:22):
everything about that loan, and Ithat was refreshing for me. There was
no refreshing for being as an underwriterbecause as an underwriter, people await kind
of tell you what they think youwant to hear. But but then when
you sit and you look at therecord, you really like that doesn't make
sense. But so that's why onlylove. I'd rather know the truth and

(14:45):
then if it makes sense, becauseas an underwriter at my job to make
sure took to do a loan thatprotect the company, but also putting the
barrow in a good position because whatthey may may or may not, you
know, right to be in theright place to buy a home. So
it's really something that I truly believe, and so that's why we if the

(15:07):
low mix. And I worked reallyhard for so Glenn always called me.
He called me and he's like thefirst conversation like whoa. He gave me
all the stories about degree and Isaid, and I said to myself,
Wow, it was refreshing. AndI think we hit it off pretty well.
I think that that that. Ithink that we must have just spoke
again for maybe a few more monthsbefore we finally met. But I have

(15:30):
always enjoyed speaking with him. Hehas a lot of you know, of
course now we fast forwards in nineteeneighty until now, all these things that
I might get feeling, it's aboutthe people. Glenn believe in the people.
I believe in the people. Ithink we build a great team together
because we you know what, whateor not, it's literally doesn't matter our

(15:52):
company. We we a lot ofa lot of our management organically grow within
the company. But but we alllooking really hard. Why I'm not going
in SARO operation. We work togethervery well. When I met you and
I would call you. My goalwas to figure out whether it was a
good loan or not, and ifit was a good loan, I'd fight

(16:12):
for it. If it wasn't,we'd move on a lot of people to
your point, they only want togive you the good stuff, and they
leave that out and then you endup finding out about it anyway time,
So why not just figure out isthis good or not? We would go
to lunch. And again, backin the day you could take an underwriter.
You can't do that anymore. Andthe world's changed. But and I

(16:33):
remember one time we're at lunch tosprobably the third or fourth time we'd go,
and you'd say, you know what, how come we go to lunch
and then you just leave like everybodyelse that takes me to lunch at the
end of the lunch shows what aboutthis file? And then they bring you
out this hard file out you thinkyou could do me a favor? Why

(16:53):
don't you do that? Glenn?I remember you're asking me that. I
was like, look, you're gonnayou're out the loads, right, But
this is about the relationship. Ilike you. I want to talk to
you about you. I don't Therewas no are There wasn't an angle.
And and and I think again againin life, in business, you know,
people can see through people that haveangles, right, And you got

(17:18):
to come and we've always preached Ihave, at least about being genuine and
all tended. You aren't. Andwhen you're that way, you dig deeper
relationships. And then again that doesn'tmake people perfect. You and I have
had many um heated conversations by thetime, but but we got to know
each other where we come from,you know, and that's uh, that's

(17:40):
that's the way it is. Wellearlier when you said that, Gland have
always said to people that I,you know, she never said no.
And of course I do believe inthe art of saying no. As I
underwriter, when I get prove theloan, that's easy, not just go
to the fast lane and it justcommunicate to the to the customer. But
and no, I always pick upthe phone and do with Glenn. I

(18:02):
think that as we evolved, andI became when I stepping in and he
after two years, two years ofa lot of convincing. I have always
felt like if I said no onemore time, he probably won't be my
friend anymore. So I he was, and again claim has always been an
entrepreneur. I remember meeting him andin ten months he became he had his

(18:26):
own company, and I said tomyself. Oh my god, Blend,
you would have been this ten months. So he has always waiting tables,
remember, yes, yes, andhe actually gone out and I went to
his open house and like amazing.He have always been that someone that set
like by far. All the peoplethat I met in my career, Glenn,

(18:47):
you have always leaved like by far, like so they always see that
vision. Yes. Well, okay, speaking of vision, I think we
should go about kind of really diveinto the chapter a little bit about running
into the fire, because now you'rewith him. I don't know how long
you've been with him, So Istarted in nineteen ninety five, okay,
so you're you're with him ten yearsand two thousand tro years, two thousand

(19:11):
and seven, ninety five to seven. Okay, so you've been with him
twelve years. And then she's notin funning she shouldn't be either, and
he is in the doghouse. Ohthat's okay, he won't and he should
be. You know that one timeshe had her credit card schooling. I
never reported it because the thief spentmore less than she did. This joke

(19:33):
is so overused, actually, Ithink I should live up to it now.
So anyway, let's talk a littlebit about the storm of two thousand
and seven that came on. Ithink there was an ironic time when Glenn
was on Real Orange, a localTV, talking about in two thousand and
six, when all these realtors wereall puffed up about, Oh, everything's
great, it's gonna continue with neversee bubbles, incredible, and then was

(19:57):
like, why don't mean to bethe Simon all guys. I think we
even had a clip of that somewhere, but he book it was too that
in five year on. Okay,so, and then bam, here comes
the storm and he's like, Ihate to be the one that said I
told you so, but I thinkwe're explain that because you know you've been
in business with Glenn now twelve years. Yeah, So I'll fast forward a

(20:18):
little bit, but at least itshould give a little bit of background when
I finally said yet yes to Glenn. I came in the company. We
was strictly handling consumer retail, andwe probably about maybe thirty thirty something employee,
and he wanted me to set upwholesale. So that was ninety five

(20:41):
and because that up until that point, my background was strictly hostale, meaning
that we are dealing that. Mymy background strictly dealing with broker so I
came in charge of operations, settingup, bringing the you know, brought
in the people that I knew,um you know in the hostale arena,
and I have because I cutited underwriting. I always felt like here I am.

(21:06):
I didn't take my job lightly atall. We were small and our
warehouse was small, and organically growthe business and bringing wholesale. Wholesale will
admit that you have wholesale volume come. If you are doing well, the
volume will come really fast. Andfor that reason, I always felt like
we need to I only need tofocus and setting up the infrastructure to make

(21:29):
sure that we can do it anddo it well. Being that I cutted
underwriting and just in shiki in primedoing years or leading up to the maildown,
we have appreciation going to the roofpeople. You know, income can't
qualify as fast as the house goingup. So now the those years,

(21:52):
it a lot of these creative programand and stay did income no racial Yeah,
oh my goodness, we we smart. It was it was my design.
So we won. We were slowin gotting in and I certainly appreciate
Glenn because he all up until thispoint, you know, we established and

(22:17):
we're doing a lot of different products. But he actually very much even though
he actually go out, he donehis thing. He got sale people and
people that call him all the timeand wanting to join. But really at
the same time he actually trusts that'sright, he doesn't know and so he
actually never um come and giving methe pressure or the team the pressure of

(22:44):
what we're going to need to do, because in those days you have to
have some of these I would callthey caught all a product. So we
slowly gotting in, but we wasI was very working with the team very
um I would say, calculated risksright and put our our system process in

(23:06):
place where we are going to protectthe company. So we do these stay
did income. We have some ofthese no ratio but maybe higher credit score,
lower our tv UM. So wewas much more that well, that's
one of the things what happened isa lot of the other lenders blew up

(23:26):
really big, really did really reallywell. And you know, it's it's
it's interesting because there are a lotof times in our lives when you go,
I want to I want to drivethat car, I want to have
that house. I should do whatthey're doing because look at all the money
they're getting. But you know,when your gut it's wrong. You know

(23:47):
when you're gut it's not the rightthing. So we walk this fine line
of going, Okay, we're gonnadabble in the uh no income all today
they call it kind of sub rhymeis stuff, but we don't believe in
it. So we were in,but we were not in all the way.
And then when two thousand and six, November of two thousand and six,

(24:11):
we got a letter, the firstletter, and it said, we've
been reviewing your loan and we realizethat there's some disparity in the income and
we'd like you to buy the loan. That was this a year before,
Yeah, well there no. Whathappened is we said, at the same

(24:34):
time, both here it comes.We knew this is the bad stuff coming.
Here's the canary, and and andyou go back to that time.
I was on that television show andoh five, well, I was saying,
this is the letter. It's notit's not the right. You can't
just lend off of people that youtell you that can breathe. You have

(24:56):
to give some kind of underwriting criteria. They didn't have it, So we
started taking down in that's November six. By January February seven, you had
the biggest subprime lender called Century Mortgage, Century News Century. They went under

(25:18):
and the cards started falling and everyonestarted going what. By the time September
seven came, we had about onehundred million dollars of buyback loans, We
had class action lawsuits, We hadthe Department of Corporations asking us to go

(25:38):
back and refund per diem interest.Long story, but on loans for five
years, we had so many issuescoming at us, and we were doing
it right. But all that eventhough you were doing it right, but
the collapse was huge, and that'swhy probably eighty percent of lenders went the

(26:00):
business for us though. I mean, as as Land mentioned the first letter
that first the repurchased letter arrived atthe end of O six. I think
that our approach even different than alot of lender out there. I literally
chair every single letter I review,and I have a team that I got

(26:21):
together and we respond to investor oneby one. We did not It's like
many lender they just see the lettercoming and they just decide that they just
gonna write a check or whatever.We wasn't like that at all because we
was looking at alone. We lookat the record and we know what we
did differently over and above what theinvestor requirement then, and for that reason

(26:47):
we would write the lender respond tothem. Why we didn't think that we're
responsible for that. So as Landmentioned obviously he remember if one hundred million,
I don't remember it that much,but it certainly the scale that it
did. It graduated from oh sixor seven to definitely there's more a loancoming,
but we did not have to buyback as many as many as as

(27:11):
as as would require. Why wouldyou what would you attribute to that?
Is it both of your minds together? Is it a mindset? Is it
just a brain that's wired differently?Did you foresee something? Did you follow
it? Ins people can like cando other people? How do you both
of us? I mean, forme, in my opinion, both of
us are fighter. I mean literallyat doing those years you know seven um,

(27:37):
you know we have this in Blotometerwebsite and people every day there's some
lender dye and Glenn would walk aroundsaid, I don't want anybody going to
that website because both of us.Actually we believe that we canna have to
make it through. Now there somedayI'm not gonna lie some day that we
out sell both of us. Actuallykind of unsure, but we certainly just

(27:59):
know, you know what we arefight don't do everything we can, and
we want that. So there's awebsite out there that was called mortgage implode
dot com and it was an implodometerthat showed it every lender too was going
to be on there. Once yougot on there, it just it was
a downward spiral sing and because everyonestart jumping ship and lenders were going out

(28:23):
and what there's Sometimes people find comfortin seeing that other people aren't doing well
right and then go well, atleast we're still here. And we thought
that was wrong. So we toldour whole company, you're not allowed to
ever go on to say. Don'tget in your head that it's okay to
fail. It's not okay to fail, and it's not okay for other people

(28:47):
to fail. And I remember onetime when there was we had to close
down our office, but we hadsome people still work from home. And
the next day they called and theysaid that the company across the hall our
competitor. They toasted champagne to usleaving remember that, and I said,

(29:10):
don't worry. They both said,list that's they don't understand the bigger picture.
A week later they closed them down, talk about you know, karma,
and then we go about six monthslater we reopened. And I'll never
forget because I call that manager andI said, why don't you offer some
of those people a job? Andthey said, why wouldn't we do that?
They toasted us. I said,they'll never find more loyal people because

(29:33):
people learned, man, I waswrong to be happy that someone else would
out a business. My mom forme, My mom, even when I
would little. My mom have alwaysteached us that you know what, when
you see somebody's success and they dowell, just be happy for them.
Because I think in our live lotsof people will go through life and jealous

(30:00):
you know, Jealousy and envy arethose sort of things that it is the
most negative impact. And it's actuallyit played trick on you. You know
what I'm saying. I think thejealousy, it does exactly the opposite of
what you intended to do. Ihave always my mom have teached me,
taught me that years at the yearafter year and I away. If I

(30:21):
see people successful, I'm really happyfor them. Mean you know what I'm
saying, because it really by sayingthat and you verbalize saying that and congratulated
them, it makes them feel good. It makes you feel good because you
know what, not it's still youstill. I mean, I do feel
that you we all confident, webelieve everything. When you success, it
wasn't because my luck. It's reallyheart working. I mean, and our

(30:44):
team, every one of us.I mean I think that both of us
embedded in our team, our managementteam and everybody. I do believe in
accountability. So whether or not,whatever the role you do, sale or
operation, you everybody have a role. And I'm pretty pretty big about accountability.
But we who very well together,you know. And you say we
were fighters, we were we werewe were fighters. And there were so

(31:07):
many of these companies you know arewe're all Stanford grads and Harvard this and
that. We were like we're theschool of hard knocks. I don't care
if you have a degree. Wecare about people who understand this business,
university and grids. So when it'sO seven and eight and the world is

(31:29):
on fire, you know, Itook this clipboard literally and wrote down bear
Stearns twenty million dollars Morgan Stanley,this much um the class action lawsuit we
had fifty thousand, square three,eight eight thousand whatever is every single thing.
And she's in the office with everysingle loan going through each one.

(31:51):
So I'm out there in their face, and you're in there fighting with paper
and pen, and I'm out therefighting with my voice. Right, And
I remember when when Bruce Kaiserman fromCredits Sue calls parties over, we're closing
down your warehouse lines. For thosewho don't understand that you have to have

(32:13):
lines of credit in order to fundloans, in order to fundle fifty million
at a time to sell or whateverthe numbers are, well, you need
that credit line. Where they werepulling them and we have a year on
the credit line. But they said, we don't care. And he says,
look, we've got ninety three creditlines. The businesses blowing up.

(32:34):
We're done, we're out. We'rejust keeping a handful and getting out.
And I thought, how in theworld are we going to do this?
And he says, look, yougotta you know. I said, you're
gonna put the twenties up in yourold company out of business, and he
did not care because it wasn't thathe didn't care his business. This model.

(32:55):
They were gone with this. Sothe next day was Friday, eight
thirty in the morning, New Yorktime, I called him and I said,
hey, Bruce, you said onething, you're done ninety three relationships,
you're getting out. You're only keepinga handful. I could I talk
to you about that handful? Andhe says yeah, And I said,

(33:16):
well, I want to look herein the eye and he says, okay,
but you're in New York. No, Bruce, I flew all night.
I'm in your lobby downstairs. Iremember he kept Us and he kept
Quicken. I think that was theonly two. But those things on the
outside, she's in there on everyloan going this is not our responsibility.

(33:38):
And we stood up to these peopleand we ended up making it through,
and it was very hard times tothat. We ended up as the number
one wholesale lender in the country.And those things don't happen again by luck.
It happens because of timing and peoplethat are willing to run into the

(34:00):
fire. Everyone was running out.We thought no, so in November seventh.
We had to take everything out ofour floor. It's actually September,
September seven, it was a Friday. I can't It was my birthday and
I was in Hawaii with family andI might cut my trips. I need

(34:21):
you to pull come home. Ineed help. It was you and your
husband and your kids. We wereall pulling clear space. Our garage looked
like that was a Friday Friday.I remember it, and now it's just
us cleaning out. I've never seenso many whole punchers or paper clips.

(34:42):
We had bought boxes. It wasa office depot in our garage, and
then another of our competitors on otherprice. So Friday, that was a
very yes, it was very clearto me. So like a tardy story
because I love this story. Itis Friday. That was my birthday,
and I remember um getting a beautifulbouquet. I think it was from you,

(35:04):
even it was met and it wasfrom and then and then and then
my three o'clock we got news thatthat se and me decided to shut down
and be so bilier right, theone not one of our competitor Joe and
literally great great people and we havealways admired that that that company, and
so I knew one of the AEfor that company. So Yvonne and I

(35:29):
call. So we call and Italked to Chuck, and Chuck is the
branch manager, and he said,okay, God, I am still shock,
Catherine, Uh, can we meetmaybe Monday to talk about you know,
like opportunity like this, you know. And I came back and I
shared with Glan that hey, we'regoing to meet them on Monday. And

(35:50):
I was writing, yeah, andI got an appointment on Monday with Chuck.
Glan said, Katherine, no,we have to meet them tomorrow Saturday.
Mean that actually I remember, Ohmy god, and now listen,
I have awaited the day. GladGland have always been that like those are
the kind of stuff that Gland Ialways I'm gonna give him the credit for
that, because he just wasn't technofor an am. So I said,

(36:13):
so it's after hours. I literallyI don't have check phone number. I
literally have to call one of youknow, the E that she usually work
for us call her or she gaveme check number. I got him to
agree to meet with a Saturday,and yeah, and that night, yes,
oh my god, I just clearedher. So what they wanted her
put him on her every bash.It was so fun. It was always

(36:38):
I don't so that was a littleI just elaborate. Is this about vision
for people? Not but others.We just cleared out the whole space.
It was empty. And so afterI talked to this man Chuck, I
said, Okay, Katherine, we'regonna meet him here in the morning.

(37:00):
We said, why here, it'sempty, so why not go to your
home or somewhere. I said,no, we're gonna meet him here.
This is our worst visionary. Andit looked we're gonna puts empty, put
all the way down the hall andmonitors and chairs. I don't need the

(37:21):
CPU, and we're gonna put itall there. So when Chuck walked in,
I remember, we said, howyou doing. Let's go, and
we guide him away from the emptybut we looked that way as we guided
them down past empty desks, butthey all looked readily at the floods right.

(37:43):
And we got down to our officeand we talked to him and we
said, listen, we want tokeep your up. Every single employee said,
didn't matter who, And so weend up working a deal. We
said where we'd like to keep you, but I said, walk out here
with me. We stood in frontof world his desks or and we said,
this used to be our all toa division, and we don't have

(38:05):
it anymore. We'd close that.Now your people can sit right here.
So it wasn't about faking him out. It was about giving him the vision
to see I could put my employeeright in that chair right. And then
on Monday he called us back andsaid, all right, we'll do the
deal. So by my Tuesday,Wednesday going on, yeah, Wednesday,

(38:25):
that was their first day. Yes, but by Tuesday he got so many
people calling him though. So Imean literally, here we got we got
a deal with him on Monday,and that he shake hand and then he
gonna come. Yeah, and mytues Day he already got a lot of
people reaching out to him. Andthat's what I always gonna say. I
glam got the credit for that becauseI think that that, you know,

(38:46):
like in my mind, I think, wow, Okay, So Friday he's
still in he's still shall shop.He didn't even gi him a chance.
He didn't give it a chance Fridaynight and he says, been a hard
day. Saw about your beer,And he said, so we tried Friday
Night. Yeah, but it wasactually just the amazing story. And of

(39:07):
course you know farm through him,we introduced us to a number of branches
we got. Yes. Well,I think the beautiful thing too is you
recognize, in a situation like that, in the prime of that time,
you never would have been able toafford these kind of teams because you were
still growing. That's right, Butthat's where opportunity is revealing itself. Like
well, also, not only wouldwe not have ever been able to get

(39:29):
that kind of talent, right becausewe're smaller, smaller, we're small now
we've got the talent, but alsono one else would take on people at
that time. It was so hardin the business. Everything had gone down,
people were shedding people. So toopen five offices people's crazy, Yeah,

(39:50):
crazy, I was. We've whenby um some mid year of two
thousand and seven, we already downto maybe a the eighty five. Yeah,
I remember it. Anyway, Ithink, don't we might have an
IT director. I literally have aheart hardware, I mean a pardware technician
and a software that's it. SoI became like all of our executive team,

(40:13):
everybody wearing multiple We were multiple howyou succeed. You know how you
mentioned a lot of these, youknow, staple and whole two whole puls
and face all that. It literallyI was a physical facility manager meeting all
these people signing lead but I'm sortof facility. Get everybody up and running.
It was amazing. We did nineteenmillion dollars of business September or seven

(40:37):
right. Four years later we didtwenty six billion dollars a business. Okay,
so that is a great stress,the beginning and the end of that.
And people again they don't understand.But when people are running out,
you gotta run in. When peopletake a chance, you gotta be willing
to put it all on the lineand do things to other people. So

(41:00):
that is chapter eleven in your book. And there it wasn't a chapter eleven.
That's another chapter. I want peopleto go in and really read some
of the new ones. We've covereda lot of the breast a lot of
books. I'll just let you callreal quick and then we'll start again.
Poor thing, that's our producer overthere. The scene. You're ready,

(41:28):
you want to go out for asecond, and I walk out. Okay,
we'll wrap, yeah a conclusion,do a wrap. Sorry, Okay,
uh, you know she had longCOVID. She had COVID, she
was hospital all right. So,um, so we want people to read

(41:49):
the book. You can get it, you can call it, you can
order on Amazon Advanced Sales and beout in the spring. You're gonna order
it. It's online in Tech GreatTea by Glenn Starns, co written with
Laura Morton, and it's a greatbook. We talk a lot about your
story and how you were a bigpart of his success and we're there for

(42:09):
him in some of the darkest,most gritty times. You guys have stories
of grit that people will learn from. It's incredible and we really appreciate you
stopping by today. Catherine. Ijust love hearing I love hearing your passion.
I love hearing your perspective on whatyou saw in this and um,
you know you probably have read allthe stories. Look, I think that

(42:35):
we made Glenn. I mean,I I guess in front of everybody,
I'm gonna say that that I thinkwe have such a wonderful, wonderful,
many years together, great journey.I think that we compliment each other strength
and witnesses. And I think thatI must give the kind of to a
lot of the people, the teamthat we built with the actually just I
think we just sold two lucky peoplethat we fortunate surrounded. I don't which

(43:00):
so many great people and you guysboth have the really amazing spouses. Hey,
no, thank you, Catherine.You've been on. This has been
another episode of gir It Happens.You can follow us on YouTube and catch
us on social media on LinkedIn,on Instagram and Facebook and all the places

(43:22):
you find your social media that isgir It Happens. You've been with Glenn
and Mindy Stearns here today. Wecan't wait to catch up with you on
another episode. Kathain, make thankyou for stopping by and we'll see you
next time on ger It Happens.