In this episode of the Grow Sell and Retire podcast, B.D. Dalton sits down with Peter to delve into his remarkable career and his latest book, "Leading from the Jump Seat." With a background that spans 25 years as a Royal Air Force pilot and a collaboration with Simon Sinek, Peter brings a wealth of experience to the table. He explains the "jump seat" philosophy, emphasizing learning from every experience and sharing those lessons in an accessible way. B.D. is captivated by Peter's storytelling and eager to explore the practical insights from his book.
Peter shares an intense personal story from his time as a co-pilot, navigating an emergency with a novice captain. This incident underscores the vital themes of trust, teamwork, and leadership under pressure. The conversation expands to discuss the transition of leadership, the empowerment of others, and fostering a sense of belonging within teams. Peter highlights the necessity of aligning personal beliefs with organizational goals, building strong relationships, and creating an environment of mutual trust and support. For more from Peter, click [here](https://www.leadingfromthejumpseat.com/).
Peter shares an intense personal story from his time as a co-pilot, navigating an emergency with a novice captain. This incident underscores the vital themes of trust, teamwork, and leadership under pressure. The conversation expands to discuss the transition of leadership, the empowerment of others, and fostering a sense of belonging within teams. Peter highlights the necessity of aligning personal beliefs with organizational goals, building strong relationships, and creating an environment of mutual trust and support. For more from Peter, click [here](https://www.leadingfromthejumpseat.com/).
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Grow, Sell and Retire is thepodcast for the lazy overachiever. Bad Dalton,
author of the Assisted Purchase, TrueGravity and Grow, Sell and Retire,
is here to give his twenty fiveyears of secrets, tips and assistants
to take your business to the nextlevel. This podcast is for anyone who
wants to sell more, work lessand make better business. Now here's your
(00:25):
host, Bad with today's GSR podcast. Hey, everybody, Bead Dalton here,
Gross Sell and Retire Podcast. Ialways love to have people back on
the show, especially when they comeout with new stuff for us, new
ideas and bringing it forward. Sotoday I have Peter Docer here with me,
who's been on the show before inkind of a Simon Sink world.
(00:46):
But now Peter's brought his own stuffto market and he's really working great with
some amazing companies all over the world. Peter, Welcome to the Gross Selling
Retire Podcast again. Bee. It'sfantastic to be back here with you.
It's been a few years, Ithink, so it's really wonderful to reconnect.
It's fun. It's always fun,and I love it because last time
(01:07):
you were here and we really wentinto the start with why we went into
find your why we wanted all thatstuff. Now we've taken it to a
whole new level. So Leading fromthe jump Seat, tell me just a
little bit about how we got there. So kind of give me a little
bit of your career path and what'sa jumpsy? Okay, Well, I've
(01:29):
been huge and fortunate in my lifeBD to have had so many different experiences
through the work that I do.So I spent twenty five years at the
Royal Air Force. I was apilot senior officer. I flew large aircraft
and led people during wartime, ledmassive multi billion dollar programs, procurent programs,
(01:52):
taught at our defense college, workedin industry around the world, and
you did mention them. Simon sinkthere. I spent eight years with Simon,
helping to take his message around theworld. But then I thought there's
more I can do, and soI spent quite some months writing my latest
(02:13):
book called Leading from the Jump Seat, which brings together well a mirra out
of the things that I've learned frommy life journey, from leading people in
really critical situations to working with peoplein a business context. Two. And
it was the opportunity to put downall these things in a simple format,
(02:38):
which we hope is really helpful forpeople. And yes, we can talk
about what the jump seat is.Now look us to the jump seat,
because I think that that's the funnything is I have this new this this
new AI bought this think on arabbit r one. Even though we've talked
before. I was coming over hereand I said, Peter Doctor was a
(02:59):
firefighter and the jump seat is andI said, I don't think it's that.
So where Chad GPT goes down thewrong rabbit hole. I was like,
I know it's not that, butso what is the jump seat?
And then where does that point ofview bring us in that leadership perspective?
Well, everything and I share isbased around stories because that's how as human
(03:20):
beings we've learned for generations, thousandsof years. And every story our share
in the book is both true andalso it brings up an important point or
practice. And the opening story ofthe book actually lends itself to the title
of the book, and it goesback to Goodhaven's two thousand and two.
(03:43):
At the time, I was apilot and senior officer in the Royal Air
Force and we flew large passenger jetscarried about one hundred and forty people,
and on this particular occasion, Iwas doing the final check on this young
guy called Callum, who'd be firstofficer a copilot for many, many years
and had spent about six months doingall the training to become a captain,
(04:05):
you know, the guy in chargethe aircraft, and I stepped in to
do the final check, which iswhere I act as his co pilot as
he flew us from London over toWashington Dulles and then onto San fran and
San Francisco is a very busy place. Any of the six clone in there
know this. And there's a doublecross of runways. All the runways meet
(04:27):
in the middle. I'm sure someonethought that was a good idea at the
time, but anyway, it's verybusy and you need to have your wits
around you. As you approached aland and Callum was all over it,
as I knew it would be.We landed, we taxed it in and
shut down all the passngers go off. I turned to him, I said,
Callum, fantastic job. I'm signingyou up. You are now fully
(04:50):
fledged captain, qualified to fly thisaeroplane anywhere in the world. We're going
to stop here the night. Inthe morning, we've got another full load
of pass and just you'll have aregular co pilots making up your crew.
I'm going to be down the back, you know, with the other passengers.
And that was a great moment,as you can imagine, Bed,
You've worked hard for it. Butthe following morning he came to me during
(05:14):
the pre flight planning stage. Hesaid, excuse me, sir. He
called me sir because I was very, very senior boss in the military.
He said, look, it's verybusy here during rush hour in San fran
Can you come and sit on thejump seat to keep an extra pair of
eyes open for other airplanes as youtaxi out make sure we get the right
(05:34):
way because we don't come to Santranvery often. I said, yes,
Captain, I'd be delighted to andI thought in that moment it was a
very courageous thing for him to say, because he'd just got people like me
off his back, you know,after six months of being trained and checked.
But he wanted me to sit onthe jump seat because he was connected
(05:55):
to a high purpose, which wasthe safety of the aeroplane and the jump
see there's a third seat on theflight deck of large aircraft which is usually
empty, but someone qualified can sitthere and you've got a great view out
the front of the airplane. Sothat's why I strapped myself in and we
fired. I tacked it out,and I knew that Callum again would be
(06:17):
all over it, as indeed hewas. He didn't need my help.
We taxed it onto the runway,got clearance, would takeoff, pushed the
horoles forward. We thundered down thatrunway and everything was going swimmingly until about
three hundred feet after we'd taken offfor about three hundred feet and we had
(06:42):
an emergency. Oh no, wehit what's called extreme turbulence. Now,
if you get turbulance upper altitude thirtyfive thousand feet, it's ninety nine thousand
times out of whatever. It's notan issue, you know, it really
isn't. Stuff will fall out thecabinets above you, drinks will be spilled,
(07:04):
but you'll get through it. Theaircraft is designed to handle it.
Down At three hundred feet, there'sa very high risk you're going to hit
the ground, and there was Callumwrestling with the controls. Yes, and
I knew that what I did inthe next two seconds would dictate whether I
(07:25):
and one hundred and forty people onboard would survive or not. Wow.
So I'll tell you what I did. I did absolutely nothing, Wow because
in that moment I didn't need tocontrol. I didn't need to do anything
except to have Callum feel that Ihad is back. I needed to be
(07:49):
a great follower. And you knowthis lends itself and clearly I'm here telling
the story. So it all workedout fine. You can read more about
it in the book. But yes, the point about this bed is that
it is inevitable that at some stagewe hand over control, whether we're the
CEO of a company, a teamleader, even a parent with children.
(08:11):
Our kids will grow up, leavehome and start to leave their own lives.
It's inevitable. And jump seat leadershipis all about embracing that inevitability because
when you do, you focus onlifting people up and equipping those so when
the time is right, they cantake the leads and carry forward those things
that are deeply important to us,just as Calendard on that day. So
(08:35):
that was the genesis of leaning fromthe jump seat, because it's all about
how do we create this environment wherejust as Calendard, people are willing to
invite us back to become part oftheir team. Yeah, it's it's not
us who chooses to lead from thejump seat. It's when others on our
(08:56):
team invite us back. That's whenwe know that become a jump seat leader,
that's awesome. So if you're doingthat, and you' and I've got
some questions here, kind of hopefullya little bit quirking, a little bit
fun. But if you if youhad as a mentor or as somebody leading
from the jump seat, that's kindof imbuing your powers, your your knowledge,
(09:18):
your confidence on them. What's what'ssomething that you hope that your mentees
have as a superpower that that youcould say, this is your superpower calum
da da da, or or whatyou would hope with teams that you work
with would have as one of theirsuperpowers or a couple of superpowers that they
could bring to the table. Well, the work I do is all about
(09:45):
enabling people to be extraordinary. That'swhat finds me up. And that,
if you like, is another wayof talking about supermaps. And I do
genuinely believe that we all have waysthat we are extraordinary. But it's not
about me, you know, givingsomeone a superparents about uncovering it and where
(10:09):
we start with that, BD isgetting very clear on what I call what
we stand for? What are ournon negotiables, What is it that we're
willing to sacrifice for in terms oftime, money, even reputation because we
feel it's something that we have todo. These these go deeper than values.
(10:31):
Okay, values can change depending oncircumstances. You might consider yourself to
be a courtiers person. I'm sureyou are, but if you're late for
a meeting, there's one parking slotleft, you've got to get that parking
slot, even if someone else youknow. So, values can change.
Stands. They are like this constanthunt in the background of our lives,
(10:54):
which guide us even when we're steppinginto the unknown. Now, most as
we don't take the time to reflectto put those feelings into words, but
when we do, we can putthem into action and they can become very
very powerful. I give examples ofthis in the book How to Discover Your
(11:15):
Stands and our collection of stands whatwe deeply believe in that is the root
of our superpower because when we canbring those to bear in all walks of
life, and what we do,we will excel because we'll have the confidence
to step into the unknown, theconfidence to face uncertainty, crisis, and
(11:37):
also in normal business times it willempowers. So that's what I'd offer.
That's good. So then on that, So you had the story about Callum,
and how about something in business whereyou were able to and through what
you did, lead a team throughuncertain times in a business scenario financially,
(12:00):
merger or something like that. We'reyou're able to sit back and allow these
people to just like Callum with thethree hundred feet and extreme turbulence, but
in extreme business turbulence. How doessomebody do that to sit back and hand
it over to their kids, theyou know, or to the underlings or
the people that are coming through andtaking over the company. Well, it's
(12:24):
all about set of the conditions.Okay, you know, the example of
Callum didn't happen by accident. We'dset the conditions where he was appropriately trained,
built the relationship, we have thetrust, and we have what I
talk about as shared commitments. Sothe three practices of jump seat leadership are
(12:50):
actually underpin all. That's there's thepractice of commitments, and commitment goes beyond
purpose. There's the practice of leadingwith humble confidence, where we're resolutes on
where we're heading, but I havethe willingness to listen to the input of
others. And then there's the practiceof belonging, because when people feel they
belong, then that they're willing tostep outside of their comfort zone. And
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all these things linked to well,actually what drives us everything that's deeply important
to us. It is driven byone of two things. It's either driven
by fear or driven by love.And fear is triggered when we sense our
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life, our livelihood, our status, or our reputation is under threats.
And the trouble with that is thatit starts to drive our behaviors where we
start to think just about ourselves ratherthan others. We see scarcity in the
world instead of possibility, and weclose down and ultimately it has us made
decisions that negatively affect others. Butwhen we find the courage to leave for
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a place a love which actually comesback to what we stand for, what
we believe in, then we openup. We think of others, We
lift others up. We see possibilityrather than scarcity. So all these things
come together to enable us to overcomeuncertainty, volatility, ambiguity, complexity that
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we face in the business world.And when people are leading from a place
of love rather than fear, that'swhen innovation starts to increase creativity to solve
the challenges we face. So it'sall about setting those conditions and that will
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create the outcome that we're seeking,even in terms of extreme uncertainty. And
I can give examples of the mostextreme when I've led people during combat.
When you can bring everybody together firstof all under a shared commitment which is
in service of others, it hassomething higher rather than than about themselves.
(15:07):
It has some think of leading themselvesto a place of love rather than fear,
and that forms the foundation for everything. So in the book you work
work through some practical examples and ideasaround commitment these types of things. So,
if I was sitting back today andI was going back into my company
(15:30):
today and talking to my five teammembers, how do I change it from
the stereotypical vision written on the wallinto our shared commitment to deliver wealth and
prosperity to X. So how dowe ask ourselves to have proper commitment,
but that we all buy into.Well. Purpose is great because it can
(15:58):
help align a team, but itdoesn't necessarily get us into action. It's
certainly in itself can't help us getover the inevitable bumps in the road that
will face. So moving through aplace of purpose to a place of commitments
that takes it up a notchural two. The commitment is when we are when
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we've got skin in the game,when we're willing to make sacrifices, when
we feel viscerally connected to the outcomeyou. So during wartime, for me,
while I was leading people, Iwas absolutely committed to bringing everybody home
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safe. I was absolutely committed todoing our job so as those who relied
on us would be safe. Sothese sorts of commitments where you feel viscerally
connects it and it's in service ofothers, It gives us the inner energy
then to overcome the challenges that wewill face. It becomes a much more
(17:03):
personal thing. So and answer yourquestion, if you want to elevate from
purpose to commitment, it's about makingwhatever it is we're in service of our
organization. It's about making that commitmentpersonal to each and every one of us
in our in ours or organization,and that that's about building relationship with what
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it is we do as a companyor organization and build relationship with one another.
That's the key. So along thatline, so here here's a little
challenge for you. So you're goingto do a trust far and you've got
two or three leaders or four leaders, they are going going to catch you
in today's world that are you believeare committed to their thing. And you
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could use like personal examples as topeople you're coaching. You could it could
be the big names that are outthere, but somebody that is truly committed
to their purpose and you know thatthey're going to catch you. Who do
you think is going to catch youhere in the world of leadership? And
we'll leave politics out of it becausewe're like we talked about for an election
year and a lot of people don'ttrust any politicians at this point in time.
(18:06):
So let's keep it in the businessworld. Well business world, but
I will talk about just the worldbecause business life it is all about people,
So I would trust anyone nice however, h it's about setting the conditions
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beforehand, very good. So whatconditions exist before you do this trustful and
that can be an actual trust fallor a metaphor for trusting people. And
I'd be really interested to get into, well, what conditions exist here,
what relationship have we built with thosepeople? What is our share commitment?
(18:56):
Because you know, my closest friendor a colleague, you'd hoped they would
catch you, but hey, ifyou've just had a falling out, then
they might miss you. Know,they do a half catch. So that's
the first thing I'd like to mention. It's about setting the conditions. What's
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the what's the immediate relationship? Haveyou set those conditions? Yes? But
also the second thing I'd raise onthis is when we're talking about how trustful,
often we are focused on making thosewho are meant to be catching us
accountable for catchings. Uh. I'minterested in people taking responsibility for ensuring that
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you've set the conditions right, sothose people choose to catch you, and
that's on us the person who isfalling. Yes, yeah, you know.
So often we can certain conditions wherewe're sending people up to fail where
they don't catch you, so asyou can just say, oh, I
told you so. But this iswhere taking responsibility for that situation comes into
(20:11):
play. Yes, we might makepeople accountable for catch nots, but are
we choosing to take responsibility for creatingthose conditions where they will indeed catch us?
So how in the book and howin your experience, how do we
do a responsibility reset? So let'ssay you and I have done this stuff
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and you've getting rid out of atrustfall and you're going to be catching me
and you and I have just arguedbecause I didn't send out the TPS reports
and you know, and let's letyou down for a client. So how
how do you and I have areset and regain the trust, the engagement
towards the commitment and the responsibility.Well, it's just that, let's have
(20:57):
a conversation bet on whatsoe commitment?What do we believe in? What are
we viscerally connected to? That's thefoundation for everything, you know, even
this podcast, we're showing up becausewe want to share ideas that we hope
will help others. That's our sharedcommitment. So it's not about you,
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it's not about me. It's aboutthat share commitment which goes beyond either of
us. So whenever we feel thatmaybe trust as started to erode, let's
get back to that conversation of whatis our share commitment, what do we
believe in, what is deeply importantto us? And what are we willing
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to sacrifice for? Because when wetouch on that, when we are willing
to sacrifice, then one of thosethings that comes up is our own ego.
We're willing to sacrifice that because we'rein something in service as something bigger
than ourselves. So that's the conversationto have. So when you're leading from
the jump seat, there's some somelife hacks some I know there's no shortcuts
(22:04):
in an engagement with people in buildingup trust, but are there some things
when we're having a challenge that wecan sit back and ask ourselves a couple
of questions or a couple of youknow, some people will do disc profiles,
some people do a team away daysand all these types of things.
Is there something that we can applynow because the trust fall is in two
(22:26):
hours? So are there some Arethere some life actual to get you back
online besides just a conversation of this, is there some some tools that you
know that you're using? Well,I point to the practice as a jump
seat leadship. So we've touched oncommitments, and share commitments. Yes,
I mentioned it a lot, becausethat's the foundation for everything. And when
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do you have that share commitments,it enables us to lead with this this
humble confidence where the power of leadingwith humble confidence is about embracing not knowing
the answer and seeing that as astrength and empowering our people, inviting our
people to help come up with thesolutions the challenges we face, So asking
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ourselves, am I leading with humbleconfidence? And thirdly, have a look
in the mirror. Am I nurturinga sense of belonging when people feel that
they belong And it's a human instinct. Everyone wants to belong. When they
feel that they belong, then peoplestep up, they choose to do more,
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they choose to well support one another. And with belonging, how we
nurture that is by showing that wecare. So if things aren't going right
in our organization, the starting pointis who am I being? That is
(23:57):
causing those around me to be whothey are? That's really good And so
I think that's probably the best question. So I was gonna say, are
other other questions that you could askyourself, But are you know, am
I being the best met or amI being the best met towards the commitment
of the of the overall process?Absolutely, and do a lot of A
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lot of current companies have challenges becausethey're the one they don't have the commitments
as a company to a point besidesselling more of X, is that where
we fall into challenges and and downfallsin companies and loss of or turnover of
employees and things like that. Isthat where you're seeing a lot of challenges
(24:44):
happening in the world currently. Isee that's where the lot of opportunity is
uh. And we work with allsorts of industries and often people say,
well, hey, healthcare, ifyou're working in a hospital, well,
people are very clear on the reasonthey're there and the commitment they have.
(25:04):
Actually, it's not necessarily always atthe front of people's minds. So in
these situations, in any organization,if we are choosing to lead, then
it is up to us to keepthat picture alive of what it is,
What is our shared commitment, whatare we here for, what do we
(25:26):
believe in? And importantly, howdo we make that personal to each and
every one of our team, Becausewhen we do that, people will feel
that they belong they will choose tocontribute more than they have to because they
want to, and that that willstart to address any issues you've got on
turnover or lack of productivity or whateverhappens to be. It always comes back
(25:52):
to, well, who am Ibeing as a leader? What's our shared
commitment and what's that mean to peopleat an individual level, at a level
cool? And So if somebody isgoing to leading from the jump seat looking
at the book and they had oneone chapter, one page when something else
that they said, it's just goingto hook them in and draw him in.
What what do you think that wouldbe if you were to start all
(26:15):
over again and you started with thisas the commitment to the book, what
would be your favorite chapter or somethingthat somebody should go back and lead when
they go to your your website.Well, these chapter builds on. The
last one that comes to mind isabout being a guardian of hope. Nice
(26:38):
okay, And there is a storythere of when I flew into Sierra Leone,
which was just coming out the otherside of a terrible, terrible salt
war. But my hope is soimportant is because it links to leadership.
You know, there's a difference betweenbeing ultimate and being a guardian of hope.
(27:03):
And it comes back to a USNavy admiral, actually James Stockdown,
who spent eight years at a pawprisoner of war in Vietnam. Yes,
and when he was finally released,many of his people had perished. They
didn't survive. About half of themdid. And he was asked in an
(27:25):
interview, you know what was thedifference between those of what survived and those
who didn't. He said, well, those who died were the optimists and
the interviewer said, what what doyou mean. He said, well,
yeah, the optimists were those whosaid, oh, we'll be out of
here by Christmas, or be outof here by Easter, or pick any
other random date. And that datecame and went yes, and I was
(27:48):
still held prisoner, and it chippedaway at their soul until finally they gave
up. An interviewer said, well, how about those who survived? Are
those are the ones who had hope? And hope is about having an unshakable
belief that it will be different tomorrow, that someday we will or rather there
(28:11):
will be a tomorrow someday we willin this case get released, we will
get home. So in these timesof uncertainty, of complexity, of volatility,
whether it's political or otherwise. Asa leader, if we can be
the guardian of hope and maintain thathope that there will be an after we
(28:36):
will come through this, then itwill help to set the conditions where our
people can step up and start toleave and find possibility where others find that.
I usually asked to do a oneminute come back to you know,
the rewind moment, which you didlast time, but this time I'm not
going to do it because that wasthe rewind moment. That was awesome,
(29:00):
that was a great standing on themountain, and it's like, yes,
that was the point. So soif people want to know more about you,
they want to find the book.Obviously it's on Amazon and all that
type of stuff. But if theywant to find out more, if they
want to book you to speak,or if they want to engage with you,
where's the best place they can findyou? Well, you can google
me and finance on our website.Lean from the jump Seats and yes,
(29:23):
I mean I do keynotes to severalthousand people, but we do workshops but
also long term partnerships with companies whowant to embed jump Seat leadership into the
next generation of leaders in their organization. So yeah, trump you alignment and
even if people just want to havea chat or give you feedback on the
(29:44):
book, I'd love to hear yourthoughts because that's when I learn more too.
That's very good. In any otherbooks in the in the wings,
well, we've just published In fromthe Jump Seat and Italian and that was
great a lift, so that cameout in the last a few months,
so we'll see, we'll see,yes, you know, but I'm sure
(30:12):
there's another book there somewhere, butwe'll put that on the shelf just for
the moment. But thank you forasking perfect Peter Doctor, thank you so
much for coming on the Gross SellingRetire podcast. It's been awesome to have
you back in as a guest again. It's been an absolute delight and pleasure.
Thanks b D. Thanks Peter.Thanks for joining us on grow sell
(30:34):
and retire. For more information toolsor to book one of our team members,
to work with your team business,or to speak at your event or
conference, visit Rockfine dot co dotuk. If you like the podcast,
you'll love one of BD's three books, The Assisted Purchase, True Gravity and
the book The Podcast is based ongrow, sell, and retire. If
(30:56):
you want to work for the restof your life, that is your business.
If you don't, that is ours.
Grow, Sell and Retire is thepodcast for the lazy overachiever. Bad Dalton,
author of the Assisted Purchase, TrueGravity and Grow, Sell and Retire,
is here to give his twenty fiveyears of secrets, tips and assistants
to take your business to the nextlevel. This podcast is for anyone who
wants to sell more, work lessand make better business. Now here's your
(00:25):
host, Bad with today's GSR podcast. Hey, everybody, Bead Dalton here,
Gross Sell and Retire Podcast. Ialways love to have people back on
the show, especially when they comeout with new stuff for us, new
ideas and bringing it forward. Sotoday I have Peter Docer here with me,
who's been on the show before inkind of a Simon Sink world.
(00:46):
But now Peter's brought his own stuffto market and he's really working great with
some amazing companies all over the world. Peter, Welcome to the Gross Selling
Retire Podcast again. Bee. It'sfantastic to be back here with you.
It's been a few years, Ithink, so it's really wonderful to reconnect.
It's fun. It's always fun,and I love it because last time
(01:07):
you were here and we really wentinto the start with why we went into
find your why we wanted all thatstuff. Now we've taken it to a
whole new level. So Leading fromthe jump Seat, tell me just a
little bit about how we got there. So kind of give me a little
bit of your career path and what'sa jumpsy? Okay, Well, I've
(01:29):
been huge and fortunate in my lifeBD to have had so many different experiences
through the work that I do.So I spent twenty five years at the
Royal Air Force. I was apilot senior officer. I flew large aircraft
and led people during wartime, ledmassive multi billion dollar programs, procurent programs,
(01:52):
taught at our defense college, workedin industry around the world, and
you did mention them. Simon sinkthere. I spent eight years with Simon,
helping to take his message around theworld. But then I thought there's
more I can do, and soI spent quite some months writing my latest
(02:13):
book called Leading from the Jump Seat, which brings together well a mirra out
of the things that I've learned frommy life journey, from leading people in
really critical situations to working with peoplein a business context. Two. And
it was the opportunity to put downall these things in a simple format,
(02:38):
which we hope is really helpful forpeople. And yes, we can talk
about what the jump seat is.Now look us to the jump seat,
because I think that that's the funnything is I have this new this this
new AI bought this think on arabbit r one. Even though we've talked
before. I was coming over hereand I said, Peter Doctor was a
(02:59):
firefighter and the jump seat is andI said, I don't think it's that.
So where Chad GPT goes down thewrong rabbit hole. I was like,
I know it's not that, butso what is the jump seat?
And then where does that point ofview bring us in that leadership perspective?
Well, everything and I share isbased around stories because that's how as human
(03:20):
beings we've learned for generations, thousandsof years. And every story our share
in the book is both true andalso it brings up an important point or
practice. And the opening story ofthe book actually lends itself to the title
of the book, and it goesback to Goodhaven's two thousand and two.
(03:43):
At the time, I was apilot and senior officer in the Royal Air
Force and we flew large passenger jetscarried about one hundred and forty people,
and on this particular occasion, Iwas doing the final check on this young
guy called Callum, who'd be firstofficer a copilot for many, many years
and had spent about six months doingall the training to become a captain,
(04:05):
you know, the guy in chargethe aircraft, and I stepped in to
do the final check, which iswhere I act as his co pilot as
he flew us from London over toWashington Dulles and then onto San fran and
San Francisco is a very busy place. Any of the six clone in there
know this. And there's a doublecross of runways. All the runways meet
(04:27):
in the middle. I'm sure someonethought that was a good idea at the
time, but anyway, it's verybusy and you need to have your wits
around you. As you approached aland and Callum was all over it,
as I knew it would be.We landed, we taxed it in and
shut down all the passngers go off. I turned to him, I said,
Callum, fantastic job. I'm signingyou up. You are now fully
(04:50):
fledged captain, qualified to fly thisaeroplane anywhere in the world. We're going
to stop here the night. Inthe morning, we've got another full load
of pass and just you'll have aregular co pilots making up your crew.
I'm going to be down the back, you know, with the other passengers.
And that was a great moment,as you can imagine, Bed,
You've worked hard for it. Butthe following morning he came to me during
(05:14):
the pre flight planning stage. Hesaid, excuse me, sir. He
called me sir because I was very, very senior boss in the military.
He said, look, it's verybusy here during rush hour in San fran
Can you come and sit on thejump seat to keep an extra pair of
eyes open for other airplanes as youtaxi out make sure we get the right
(05:34):
way because we don't come to Santranvery often. I said, yes,
Captain, I'd be delighted to andI thought in that moment it was a
very courageous thing for him to say, because he'd just got people like me
off his back, you know,after six months of being trained and checked.
But he wanted me to sit onthe jump seat because he was connected
(05:55):
to a high purpose, which wasthe safety of the aeroplane and the jump
see there's a third seat on theflight deck of large aircraft which is usually
empty, but someone qualified can sitthere and you've got a great view out
the front of the airplane. Sothat's why I strapped myself in and we
fired. I tacked it out,and I knew that Callum again would be
(06:17):
all over it, as indeed hewas. He didn't need my help.
We taxed it onto the runway,got clearance, would takeoff, pushed the
horoles forward. We thundered down thatrunway and everything was going swimmingly until about
three hundred feet after we'd taken offfor about three hundred feet and we had
(06:42):
an emergency. Oh no, wehit what's called extreme turbulence. Now,
if you get turbulance upper altitude thirtyfive thousand feet, it's ninety nine thousand
times out of whatever. It's notan issue, you know, it really
isn't. Stuff will fall out thecabinets above you, drinks will be spilled,
(07:04):
but you'll get through it. Theaircraft is designed to handle it.
Down At three hundred feet, there'sa very high risk you're going to hit
the ground, and there was Callumwrestling with the controls. Yes, and
I knew that what I did inthe next two seconds would dictate whether I
(07:25):
and one hundred and forty people onboard would survive or not. Wow.
So I'll tell you what I did. I did absolutely nothing, Wow because
in that moment I didn't need tocontrol. I didn't need to do anything
except to have Callum feel that Ihad is back. I needed to be
(07:49):
a great follower. And you knowthis lends itself and clearly I'm here telling
the story. So it all workedout fine. You can read more about
it in the book. But yes, the point about this bed is that
it is inevitable that at some stagewe hand over control, whether we're the
CEO of a company, a teamleader, even a parent with children.
(08:11):
Our kids will grow up, leavehome and start to leave their own lives.
It's inevitable. And jump seat leadershipis all about embracing that inevitability because
when you do, you focus onlifting people up and equipping those so when
the time is right, they cantake the leads and carry forward those things
that are deeply important to us,just as Calendard on that day. So
(08:35):
that was the genesis of leaning fromthe jump seat, because it's all about
how do we create this environment wherejust as Calendard, people are willing to
invite us back to become part oftheir team. Yeah, it's it's not
us who chooses to lead from thejump seat. It's when others on our
(08:56):
team invite us back. That's whenwe know that become a jump seat leader,
that's awesome. So if you're doingthat, and you' and I've got
some questions here, kind of hopefullya little bit quirking, a little bit
fun. But if you if youhad as a mentor or as somebody leading
from the jump seat, that's kindof imbuing your powers, your your knowledge,
(09:18):
your confidence on them. What's what'ssomething that you hope that your mentees
have as a superpower that that youcould say, this is your superpower calum
da da da, or or whatyou would hope with teams that you work
with would have as one of theirsuperpowers or a couple of superpowers that they
could bring to the table. Well, the work I do is all about
(09:45):
enabling people to be extraordinary. That'swhat finds me up. And that,
if you like, is another wayof talking about supermaps. And I do
genuinely believe that we all have waysthat we are extraordinary. But it's not
about me, you know, givingsomeone a superparents about uncovering it and where
(10:09):
we start with that, BD isgetting very clear on what I call what
we stand for? What are ournon negotiables, What is it that we're
willing to sacrifice for in terms oftime, money, even reputation because we
feel it's something that we have todo. These these go deeper than values.
(10:31):
Okay, values can change depending oncircumstances. You might consider yourself to
be a courtiers person. I'm sureyou are, but if you're late for
a meeting, there's one parking slotleft, you've got to get that parking
slot, even if someone else youknow. So, values can change.
Stands. They are like this constanthunt in the background of our lives,
(10:54):
which guide us even when we're steppinginto the unknown. Now, most as
we don't take the time to reflectto put those feelings into words, but
when we do, we can putthem into action and they can become very
very powerful. I give examples ofthis in the book How to Discover Your
(11:15):
Stands and our collection of stands whatwe deeply believe in that is the root
of our superpower because when we canbring those to bear in all walks of
life, and what we do,we will excel because we'll have the confidence
to step into the unknown, theconfidence to face uncertainty, crisis, and
(11:37):
also in normal business times it willempowers. So that's what I'd offer.
That's good. So then on that, So you had the story about Callum,
and how about something in business whereyou were able to and through what
you did, lead a team throughuncertain times in a business scenario financially,
(12:00):
merger or something like that. We'reyou're able to sit back and allow these
people to just like Callum with thethree hundred feet and extreme turbulence, but
in extreme business turbulence. How doessomebody do that to sit back and hand
it over to their kids, theyou know, or to the underlings or
the people that are coming through andtaking over the company. Well, it's
(12:24):
all about set of the conditions.Okay, you know, the example of
Callum didn't happen by accident. We'dset the conditions where he was appropriately trained,
built the relationship, we have thetrust, and we have what I
talk about as shared commitments. Sothe three practices of jump seat leadership are
(12:50):
actually underpin all. That's there's thepractice of commitments, and commitment goes beyond
purpose. There's the practice of leadingwith humble confidence, where we're resolutes on
where we're heading, but I havethe willingness to listen to the input of
others. And then there's the practiceof belonging, because when people feel they
belong, then that they're willing tostep outside of their comfort zone. And
(13:16):
all these things linked to well,actually what drives us everything that's deeply important
to us. It is driven byone of two things. It's either driven
by fear or driven by love.And fear is triggered when we sense our
(13:37):
life, our livelihood, our status, or our reputation is under threats.
And the trouble with that is thatit starts to drive our behaviors where we
start to think just about ourselves ratherthan others. We see scarcity in the
world instead of possibility, and weclose down and ultimately it has us made
decisions that negatively affect others. Butwhen we find the courage to leave for
(14:03):
a place a love which actually comesback to what we stand for, what
we believe in, then we openup. We think of others, We
lift others up. We see possibilityrather than scarcity. So all these things
come together to enable us to overcomeuncertainty, volatility, ambiguity, complexity that
(14:24):
we face in the business world.And when people are leading from a place
of love rather than fear, that'swhen innovation starts to increase creativity to solve
the challenges we face. So it'sall about setting those conditions and that will
(14:46):
create the outcome that we're seeking,even in terms of extreme uncertainty. And
I can give examples of the mostextreme when I've led people during combat.
When you can bring everybody together firstof all under a shared commitment which is
in service of others, it hassomething higher rather than than about themselves.
(15:07):
It has some think of leading themselvesto a place of love rather than fear,
and that forms the foundation for everything. So in the book you work
work through some practical examples and ideasaround commitment these types of things. So,
if I was sitting back today andI was going back into my company
(15:30):
today and talking to my five teammembers, how do I change it from
the stereotypical vision written on the wallinto our shared commitment to deliver wealth and
prosperity to X. So how dowe ask ourselves to have proper commitment,
but that we all buy into.Well. Purpose is great because it can
(15:58):
help align a team, but itdoesn't necessarily get us into action. It's
certainly in itself can't help us getover the inevitable bumps in the road that
will face. So moving through aplace of purpose to a place of commitments
that takes it up a notchural two. The commitment is when we are when
(16:19):
we've got skin in the game,when we're willing to make sacrifices, when
we feel viscerally connected to the outcomeyou. So during wartime, for me,
while I was leading people, Iwas absolutely committed to bringing everybody home
(16:41):
safe. I was absolutely committed todoing our job so as those who relied
on us would be safe. Sothese sorts of commitments where you feel viscerally
connects it and it's in service ofothers, It gives us the inner energy
then to overcome the challenges that wewill face. It becomes a much more
(17:03):
personal thing. So and answer yourquestion, if you want to elevate from
purpose to commitment, it's about makingwhatever it is we're in service of our
organization. It's about making that commitmentpersonal to each and every one of us
in our in ours or organization,and that that's about building relationship with what
(17:23):
it is we do as a companyor organization and build relationship with one another.
That's the key. So along thatline, so here here's a little
challenge for you. So you're goingto do a trust far and you've got
two or three leaders or four leaders, they are going going to catch you
in today's world that are you believeare committed to their thing. And you
(17:44):
could use like personal examples as topeople you're coaching. You could it could
be the big names that are outthere, but somebody that is truly committed
to their purpose and you know thatthey're going to catch you. Who do
you think is going to catch youhere in the world of leadership? And
we'll leave politics out of it becausewe're like we talked about for an election
year and a lot of people don'ttrust any politicians at this point in time.
(18:06):
So let's keep it in the businessworld. Well business world, but
I will talk about just the worldbecause business life it is all about people,
So I would trust anyone nice however, h it's about setting the conditions
(18:32):
beforehand, very good. So whatconditions exist before you do this trustful and
that can be an actual trust fallor a metaphor for trusting people. And
I'd be really interested to get into, well, what conditions exist here,
what relationship have we built with thosepeople? What is our share commitment?
(18:56):
Because you know, my closest friendor a colleague, you'd hoped they would
catch you, but hey, ifyou've just had a falling out, then
they might miss you. Know,they do a half catch. So that's
the first thing I'd like to mention. It's about setting the conditions. What's
(19:18):
the what's the immediate relationship? Haveyou set those conditions? Yes? But
also the second thing I'd raise onthis is when we're talking about how trustful,
often we are focused on making thosewho are meant to be catching us
accountable for catchings. Uh. I'minterested in people taking responsibility for ensuring that
(19:47):
you've set the conditions right, sothose people choose to catch you, and
that's on us the person who isfalling. Yes, yeah, you know.
So often we can certain conditions wherewe're sending people up to fail where
they don't catch you, so asyou can just say, oh, I
told you so. But this iswhere taking responsibility for that situation comes into
(20:11):
play. Yes, we might makepeople accountable for catch nots, but are
we choosing to take responsibility for creatingthose conditions where they will indeed catch us?
So how in the book and howin your experience, how do we
do a responsibility reset? So let'ssay you and I have done this stuff
(20:33):
and you've getting rid out of atrustfall and you're going to be catching me
and you and I have just arguedbecause I didn't send out the TPS reports
and you know, and let's letyou down for a client. So how
how do you and I have areset and regain the trust, the engagement
towards the commitment and the responsibility.Well, it's just that, let's have
(20:57):
a conversation bet on whatsoe commitment?What do we believe in? What are
we viscerally connected to? That's thefoundation for everything, you know, even
this podcast, we're showing up becausewe want to share ideas that we hope
will help others. That's our sharedcommitment. So it's not about you,
(21:19):
it's not about me. It's aboutthat share commitment which goes beyond either of
us. So whenever we feel thatmaybe trust as started to erode, let's
get back to that conversation of whatis our share commitment, what do we
believe in, what is deeply importantto us? And what are we willing
(21:41):
to sacrifice for? Because when wetouch on that, when we are willing
to sacrifice, then one of thosethings that comes up is our own ego.
We're willing to sacrifice that because we'rein something in service as something bigger
than ourselves. So that's the conversationto have. So when you're leading from
the jump seat, there's some somelife hacks some I know there's no shortcuts
(22:04):
in an engagement with people in buildingup trust, but are there some things
when we're having a challenge that wecan sit back and ask ourselves a couple
of questions or a couple of youknow, some people will do disc profiles,
some people do a team away daysand all these types of things.
Is there something that we can applynow because the trust fall is in two
(22:26):
hours? So are there some Arethere some life actual to get you back
online besides just a conversation of this, is there some some tools that you
know that you're using? Well,I point to the practice as a jump
seat leadship. So we've touched oncommitments, and share commitments. Yes,
I mentioned it a lot, becausethat's the foundation for everything. And when
(22:48):
do you have that share commitments,it enables us to lead with this this
humble confidence where the power of leadingwith humble confidence is about embracing not knowing
the answer and seeing that as astrength and empowering our people, inviting our
people to help come up with thesolutions the challenges we face, So asking
(23:14):
ourselves, am I leading with humbleconfidence? And thirdly, have a look
in the mirror. Am I nurturinga sense of belonging when people feel that
they belong And it's a human instinct. Everyone wants to belong. When they
feel that they belong, then peoplestep up, they choose to do more,
(23:34):
they choose to well support one another. And with belonging, how we
nurture that is by showing that wecare. So if things aren't going right
in our organization, the starting pointis who am I being? That is
(23:57):
causing those around me to be whothey are? That's really good And so
I think that's probably the best question. So I was gonna say, are
other other questions that you could askyourself, But are you know, am
I being the best met or amI being the best met towards the commitment
of the of the overall process?Absolutely, and do a lot of A
(24:21):
lot of current companies have challenges becausethey're the one they don't have the commitments
as a company to a point besidesselling more of X, is that where
we fall into challenges and and downfallsin companies and loss of or turnover of
employees and things like that. Isthat where you're seeing a lot of challenges
(24:44):
happening in the world currently. Isee that's where the lot of opportunity is
uh. And we work with allsorts of industries and often people say,
well, hey, healthcare, ifyou're working in a hospital, well,
people are very clear on the reasonthey're there and the commitment they have.
(25:04):
Actually, it's not necessarily always atthe front of people's minds. So in
these situations, in any organization,if we are choosing to lead, then
it is up to us to keepthat picture alive of what it is,
What is our shared commitment, whatare we here for, what do we
(25:26):
believe in? And importantly, howdo we make that personal to each and
every one of our team, Becausewhen we do that, people will feel
that they belong they will choose tocontribute more than they have to because they
want to, and that that willstart to address any issues you've got on
turnover or lack of productivity or whateverhappens to be. It always comes back
(25:52):
to, well, who am Ibeing as a leader? What's our shared
commitment and what's that mean to peopleat an individual level, at a level
cool? And So if somebody isgoing to leading from the jump seat looking
at the book and they had oneone chapter, one page when something else
that they said, it's just goingto hook them in and draw him in.
What what do you think that wouldbe if you were to start all
(26:15):
over again and you started with thisas the commitment to the book, what
would be your favorite chapter or somethingthat somebody should go back and lead when
they go to your your website.Well, these chapter builds on. The
last one that comes to mind isabout being a guardian of hope. Nice
(26:38):
okay, And there is a storythere of when I flew into Sierra Leone,
which was just coming out the otherside of a terrible, terrible salt
war. But my hope is soimportant is because it links to leadership.
You know, there's a difference betweenbeing ultimate and being a guardian of hope.
(27:03):
And it comes back to a USNavy admiral, actually James Stockdown,
who spent eight years at a pawprisoner of war in Vietnam. Yes,
and when he was finally released,many of his people had perished. They
didn't survive. About half of themdid. And he was asked in an
(27:25):
interview, you know what was thedifference between those of what survived and those
who didn't. He said, well, those who died were the optimists and
the interviewer said, what what doyou mean. He said, well,
yeah, the optimists were those whosaid, oh, we'll be out of
here by Christmas, or be outof here by Easter, or pick any
other random date. And that datecame and went yes, and I was
(27:48):
still held prisoner, and it chippedaway at their soul until finally they gave
up. An interviewer said, well, how about those who survived? Are
those are the ones who had hope? And hope is about having an unshakable
belief that it will be different tomorrow, that someday we will or rather there
(28:11):
will be a tomorrow someday we willin this case get released, we will
get home. So in these timesof uncertainty, of complexity, of volatility,
whether it's political or otherwise. Asa leader, if we can be
the guardian of hope and maintain thathope that there will be an after we
(28:36):
will come through this, then itwill help to set the conditions where our
people can step up and start toleave and find possibility where others find that.
I usually asked to do a oneminute come back to you know,
the rewind moment, which you didlast time, but this time I'm not
going to do it because that wasthe rewind moment. That was awesome,
(29:00):
that was a great standing on themountain, and it's like, yes,
that was the point. So soif people want to know more about you,
they want to find the book.Obviously it's on Amazon and all that
type of stuff. But if theywant to find out more, if they
want to book you to speak,or if they want to engage with you,
where's the best place they can findyou? Well, you can google
me and finance on our website.Lean from the jump Seats and yes,
(29:23):
I mean I do keynotes to severalthousand people, but we do workshops but
also long term partnerships with companies whowant to embed jump Seat leadership into the
next generation of leaders in their organization. So yeah, trump you alignment and
even if people just want to havea chat or give you feedback on the
(29:44):
book, I'd love to hear yourthoughts because that's when I learn more too.
That's very good. In any otherbooks in the in the wings,
well, we've just published In fromthe Jump Seat and Italian and that was
great a lift, so that cameout in the last a few months,
so we'll see, we'll see,yes, you know, but I'm sure
(30:12):
there's another book there somewhere, butwe'll put that on the shelf just for
the moment. But thank you forasking perfect Peter Doctor, thank you so
much for coming on the Gross SellingRetire podcast. It's been awesome to have
you back in as a guest again. It's been an absolute delight and pleasure.
Thanks b D. Thanks Peter.Thanks for joining us on grow sell
(30:34):
and retire. For more information toolsor to book one of our team members,
to work with your team business,or to speak at your event or
conference, visit Rockfine dot co dotuk. If you like the podcast,
you'll love one of BD's three books, The Assisted Purchase, True Gravity and
the book The Podcast is based ongrow, sell, and retire. If
(30:56):
you want to work for the restof your life, that is your business.
If you don't, that is ours.
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