June 30, 2025 • 29 mins
Want to master the art of negotiation in business and life? In this episode of the Grow, Sell and Retire podcast, I sat down with Molly Bloomquist—a 20-year US government vet turned negotiation expert. Molly shared game-changing insights on preparing for negotiations, the power of silence, reading body language, and the importance of empathy and sincerity. Her secret? Active listening, staying flexible, and making real human connections to achieve the best outcomes. If you want to level up your negotiation game, you’ll want to hear Molly’s top tips!
www.mollyblomquist.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-blomquist/
www.mollyblomquist.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-blomquist/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Grow Sell and Retire is the podcast for the lazy overachiever.
Bad Dalton, author of the assistant Purchase, True Gravity and Grow,
Sell and Retire, is here to give his twenty five
years of secrets, tips and assistants to take your business
to the next level. This podcast is for anyone who
wants to sell more, work less and make better business.
(00:24):
Now here's your host, Bad with today's GSR podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey, everybody, Beaty Dalton here Grows, Sell and Retire podcast
And today we're talking with Molly Boomquist and we are
going to be talking about better negotiating skills for personal
and business use. So Molly, welcome to the show. Tell
us a little bit about your background and what makes
you a great negotiator.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me.
I'm really excited. I've been looking forward to this. I've
spent over twenty years with the US government. I started
as a government contractor, and just like anything when you're
starting out in a business, you work your way up.
So I've done a little bit of different things of investigations.
(01:13):
I used to do fraud audits, surveillance, counter surveillance, then
got into interrogations a little bit of polygraph and then
through that, as you work your way up and you
take on a little bit more of skills with management
and overseeing larger programs, you really learn negotiation skills, you
(01:33):
learn skills of interacting with people. And so that's been
the culmination of about twenty years. I know I boiled
it down and probably oversimplified it, but I'm not looking
to put anybody to sleep on your show.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, it's great. So what was your like, your first
win that made you know that this is the way
you wanted to be, your first win or your first
good success that made you think, hey, I'm pretty good
at this and I get that way, and kind of
walk us through what what the feeling was and how
it all came about.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, I don't specifically recall my first win per se,
but I will say because training is quite long and
it's it's as you can imagine, pretty intense, that it's
it's an only in government training that is not offered
to the public. It's not something you could you could
pay for or try to sort of, you know, talk
(02:25):
your way into. And and even after once you you
graduate from training, you're still on a year long program
because there's so many things to refine and tweak, and
I would argue, it's constant after that, and I would say,
what I noticed is when my family started to say,
you're different you you you speak with us differently, you
(02:47):
phrase things differently, and and to me, I'm like, no,
I'm the same person, Like I haven't changed. And I think,
looking back is my core values and who I am
never changed. But how I interact and how I communicate,
there's there is quite a shift. And and I just
I didn't piece that together at the time.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
That's that's cool because I actually I didn't send this
question across. But something something I was just thinking about
is so sometimes we go in negotiation negotiations unprepared. So
what are some of the things that we should be
preparing before and not maybe about that specific negotiation, but
practicing before we go into a business negotiation negotiation with
(03:31):
our kids, but something that we should be practicing that
made you when your people say you're speaking differently to us,
that's just a preparation sort of model.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It's funny you mentioned kids. When I when I speak
or when I host workshops, that is the biggest thing
I get is how do I negotiate with my kids
because I lose all the time. And so you know,
these are high powered executives. These are people who who
live very successful lot, but they're like I am held
hostage at my house and I just can't. I can't
(04:05):
go into it. So, you know, aside from as you mentioned,
if you're not researching the person or the company or
that situation that you're going into, I think the best
thing you can you can do is ask yourself, what
is my intended outcome? You know, what do I hope
to get out of this? And if I don't, what
(04:28):
what am I willing to walk away with and say
this this is okay with me? And so you might
always have your this is everything I want, but this
is everything I'm willing to say yes to okay? And
so what are your lines?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So is it growing it up?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And I know you can't do this like right on
the spot with family members or even but is there something?
Would you come to it with a list of things
if we're going into especially if you had a little
bit more time to prepare boardroom, business to negotiation, other
things like that, would you come with those lists, like
drawn out on a piece of paper so you can
(05:07):
visualize them, or how would you position it for somebody
who's just learning.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
So I think it's whatever works for the person. And
so if you're more of a visual learner and you
want to have some bullet points written out on like
a note card or on your phone, I think that's great.
If it's something more mentally, you want to have a
couple of bullets in your head, because if you're going
(05:32):
in and you're chatting with somebody and you're in the
middle of a discussion, you're like, hold on one second,
let me pull out my notes, And if you're looking
at your phone, that could be a sign that you're
distracted or something else is going on. So I would
also be mindful of some of those unintended signals that
could be conveyed and so that you wouldn't want that
(05:53):
to be a distraction. But yeah, I would go in
to say, well, what do I hope to get out
of this with the information I have right now? But
what also is is really key and important is you
could have a list of safe or I could have
a list of three things I'm hoping to get out
of out of a conversation, be it with a family
a family member with with somebody in business with maybe
somebody I'm looking to hire or to do business with,
(06:16):
But depending on the feedback and the communication the information
they give me, I may adjust that. And so also
being flexible is really really important because we make decisions
with the information we have at the time, and if
new information comes to light, you may want to reposition
what you thought you were going into strategy was, or
(06:38):
you're what you want to come out of it, And
so you don't want to really be two set in stone.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And I was watching some of the videos on your
on on your page, and so you talk about silence,
and we're not going to do silence here because it's
radio show, so we don't. They might they might think
that we've skipped skipped this. But you talk about silence there.
And you also talked about taking a break, so during
a negotiation, and this is not high stakes terrorist hostage negotiation,
(07:06):
this is a business negotiation. Is it a sign of
weakness to say, could we take a five minute precess,
could we have a walk around the block, could we
take a lunch break? Is that a sign of weakness
or is that a sign of strength?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
In a lot of cases, absolutely not a sign of weakness.
If somebody needs a break or they want to take
a walk, I think it's fine to ask for that.
You know, there's nothing wrong with that. Hey, I would
like to collect my thoughts or do you mind if
we pause for about five minutes and then let's revisit this.
There's nothing I mean, would it offend you if somebody
(07:40):
asked you for that?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, it's just one of those if you're in the
middle of your we're in a heated debate, or we're
in a heated you know, I'll give you five, you
give me four or whatever this and then you just say, cool,
let's think about this, and can I walk around the
block and think collect my thoughts? And I'm just wondering
if that started to look like a sign of week's
versus versus saying I think this is important, or if
(08:04):
there was some terminology that you would use.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
No, No, I think it's what the terminology is whatever
is authentic to the person and applicable to the situation.
Because what could work in one situation may not work
in another. So again, it's about being flexible and reading
the situation, but also too in terms of you know,
power of silence, So absent taking a break to say,
(08:28):
walk around the block, or to leave the room. A
lot of times, silence is such a great weapon, and
we won't use this on as you mentioned on the show,
because that's not really the intent here. So the applicability
is it isn't so great is if I ask you
a question and say it's an interview, it's a discussion,
it's a negotiation. Even with your kids, I ask you
(08:52):
a question and you haven't responded quickly. You're taking your time.
Most people are uncomfortable silence. They will then start to
keep talking even though they want the person to respond.
Don't just sit, breathe and just and let them speak first.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
That's great one.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I mean, fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes kills.
People aren't used to silence, and so those are things
you can do. And then when they speak, listen versus
just waiting them to respond. See what they're saying. Maybe
they're really considering how they want to respond, or they're
they're looking at a position of how they want to
(09:38):
they want to frame something. But if they've waited, they're
probably uncomfortable. They're really thinking about something that they want
to say next, and that could be really critical to
where you go next with the next question or follow
up discussion.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Those are fabulous, fabulous points. So I think you've interviewed
a lot of bad people, good people. You've interrogated, you've
gotten information out of them. What's a surprising kind of tell?
You know, how we talk about in poker that a
wing could touch of the sunglasses or whatever else it is.
What's a surprising tell that more people have than we'd
(10:16):
give ourselves credit for, you know, like twenty percent of
people or fifteen percent of people. Besides talking over everybody, Yeah,
that can happen.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know a lot of times people people want to
know about body language, and the short answer is going
to be body language changes and changes a voice. And
so just to kind of take that a bit further,
we we all have tells, but something is sometimes nothing.
Now you and I don't know each other. This is
(10:48):
the first time we've ever met virtually. And it's a
little bit harder too when it's virtual like this. You know,
I can see you basically from almost the collar bones up,
and you know you the same with me. Yes, But
assuming you're in person, and assuming you've just met somebody,
you don't have to have a long history. Be aware
and be mindful when you meet them. When they sit,
(11:11):
are they mostly static? Do they shift around a lot?
And then as the questions or as the conversation progresses,
do they start shifting more and changing more? Is it
related to a specific topic? Is it just that you've
been sitting for a bit and they're just a little
bit uncomfortable, So they're just adjusting. And so what that's
(11:32):
called is an anchor shift. So for example, if I'm
sitting nice and still and then you and I are talking,
and maybe it's a topic I don't like, I physically
move from one side to the next. Maybe I just
needed to shift because I'm uncomfortable. But what I would
do personally, I would make a mental note of what
that topic was. I would go off that topic, discuss
(11:56):
something else, see if the behavior goes back back to
what I've observed as the baseline, and then reintroduced that
topic at a little bit of a later point, and
see if the shifts start to occur again. That gives
me a little bit of data points that maybe it
makes that person uncomfortable. So that sort of body language
(12:16):
and a nutshell, But you're pairing it because you're actively
listening to the topics. Second is verbal rate of speech
in words, when you're chatting with somebody, are they loquacious?
Are they shorter in their answers? How do they speak?
Is it fast? Slow, easy? You know, medium? And then
(12:39):
when a topic changes, does that change those All things
can be indicators and you don't have to know somebody
for a long time to kind of start to pick
up on those. It's just about paying attention very good.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So if you're if you're looking. When I was going
through a lot of the stuff that you've been doing
research and you talk about it out on LinkedIn and
things like that, you talked about no oriented questions getting
people to almost that that reverse psychology and pulling people
in by using the negative and so walk us through
(13:15):
how how that works and talking to people and getting
into their getting to understand them better so you can
negotiate with them better or work with them better.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean these are these are This is one
of my favorite sort of tactics, if you will, is
people don't like to seem like like we quit anything
or that we don't want to do something. So it
could be trying to close a sale, or it could
be you know, having an employee do something, or having
your kids, having your kids maybe do something they don't
(13:48):
want to do when when you're chatting with them, just
you know, be candid. I feel like at this point
it seems like we're we're at a bit of an impasse,
and really I know that we want to bring this
to closure, and I just I feel there's an impasse
(14:09):
and put it on you, like I feel I'm getting
the impression there's sort of an impasse. Are you wanting
to quit? When people hear that, somebody's asking, are you
wanting to quit? You're initial reaction, No, No, I don't
want to quit right because because we're not quitters. And
then you know, the follow up would be great. I
(14:31):
don't want to either because I'm committed. And you can
take it a couple of different directions. What do you
feel right now or some of the the speed bumps
or some of the hiccups right now that we haven't
smoothed over that we should discuss where you can say, well,
in your opinion, how do we get there? So, no
(14:51):
matter what question you ask next, listen to their response
because you will get such valuable information of maybe something
that they had an objection to where they were concerned about,
and maybe it was something that you were aware of,
or maybe it was just something that they've not brought up.
That's new information. It'll help position you to go forward
(15:15):
with the next steps.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So in that without sounding repetitive, because if you if
you say I feel or I hear you three or
four times in the same two paragraphs, people start to go, now,
you're just playing with my brain. So how you know,
how do you make it so that you say it
enough times where they feel it and repeat it to
(15:38):
them and then move on to the next thing. You
know what, what's too many times saying I hear you,
I feel you, I believe that. When do we stop?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I think it depends on the situation, you know. Another
way to reframe it could be just to recap where
we are, like I want to recap this to make
sure that we're on the same page, right, because that's
not I feel I believe. It's here's the situation, this
is what we've discussed, here's two, three or whatever, here's
the summary of this. Is this accurate? Yeah, and then
(16:09):
wait for their response and then you can move it forward.
Or if it's something to where you're making some progress,
but you're hitting a bit of a stalemate on that topic. Look,
we've made great progress on this. I think we're a
little bit we might be a little bit stuck right here.
Do we want to continue discussing this or are there
some other areas that we want to address now that
(16:30):
we can potentially resolve and then we can come back
to this.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That's great. So you've you've worked with governments all over
the world, companies and all sorts of stuff. So what's
one one tactic that the governments or high stake negotiators
are using that we can use just in normal things
that we're missing out on we're clueless about very simply.
We've talked about language, we've talked about body language. But
(16:55):
what's something that's actually just innate in after your training
that's there.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I'll give you the answer that I'll ask if it
surprises you. Okay, empathy?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, I guess that's thoughts empathy. So if somebody is
drowning and you give them empathy, you're you're just just
I know that's not a negotiation tactic. But does does
that mean that you're you're as scared as they are
or you're just feeling that you believe and you know
that they're scared.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So it's connecting with them. You know, people, people do
business and people people talk to people they know like
and trust perfect and so if you have empathy for somebody,
you know, like the situation might be hard or this
this could be a hard topic or wow, you working
through that had to have been a lot and it
(17:48):
shouldn't be fake, right Like we can show we can
show kindness or we can show authenticity to people. When
you when somebody feels that you're listening to them in
whatever they've shared matters to a degree. It's that human connection.
You instantly feel that you want to work with them
a little bit more and you have more buy in
(18:11):
if they feel says it's with the government or it's
in business. If you feel that somebody who's sitting in
front of you is just coming in, they're just gonna
ask you a bunch of questions. They're gonna speak at
you versus having a conversation with you. Your walls are up,
you're going to be less likely to want to communicate
(18:34):
with them in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's great about so I agree, I wasn't too shocked.
I was just trying to make sure that that I
understood where you're coming from and feeling that emotion and
feeling human because you're negotiating with other humans, aren't you,
No matter if it's a high stakes or go to
bed now, it's better.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, And I mean I think too, Like you know,
it's just about building those quality cans m h. And
having that because whether it's it's with your network, or
it's somebody you've just met, or it's somebody that you're
interacting with and in a in a business setting, when
you build those connections, that's really when the magic can
happen and you can make breakthroughs.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So here here's one for you, a little bit of
a curveball. So so you do high high steak stuff,
what's some what's some low steak stuff, like getting getting
a getting out of a parking ti I'm not saying
that you get out of parking tickets, but getting out
of a parking tickets, getting a good the best table
at the restaurant with the view. You know, what's what's
something that you like to have a little bit of
(19:39):
fun with in the negotiation pool, pond game, whatever you
want to call it.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, you know, actually it's funny you asked this, and
uh so we just spent the weekend in Seattle and
we went to a restaurant and apparently this restaurant has
behind it there's a bar. It's literally behind a bookcase.
So if we wanted to get an after drink dinner,
and you they don't take reservations, they don't advertise. It's
(20:07):
sort of like an invite only kind of a thing.
I'm like, oh, well that seems cool. I'm sure. I'm
sure the drink is overpriced, because you know, they're sort
of creating this ambiance. And we walked up and they're like,
we're sorry, ma'am. You know there's there's you know, there's
no waiting list for this. It's sort of like an
invite only, like you're not cool enough for this. And
(20:31):
I'm thinking in my head, well, probably am not cool
enough for this, but I'm still going to try, because
now you know, I'm curious. So great marketing on them,
that's kind of side topic. Definitely fantastic marketing for them,
because I was sucked in. I just wanted to see
what was behind this bookcase and it was really cool,
and so I said to yeah, you know, I get it, Like, look,
you have people who come up here to you all
(20:52):
the time and that probably either try to give you cash,
or they say who they are or who they know,
or they have some type of a SOB story. And
I mean, and she's like, she said yes. I said, look,
I'm an average Joe. We're up here, we're celebrating. We
(21:13):
just would really, I just would have loved of, you know,
we just would love to grab a drink and go.
Maybe you can't do that, Like I get that you
guys have rules and procedures and things to do. This
is just really it would just mean mean a lot
to me just to kind of see this. But if
you can't, you can't do this, or you don't want
to do this for us, I get it. I'm not
trying to stress you out. She let us in and
(21:36):
then I asked her later because like in my mind
I was curious because I knew what I was doing. Yes,
but I had asked her. I said, you know what
made you say say yes? And she goes, you didn't
try to upsell me or tell me that you were important,
which I'm not, or that you do so and so
or it was some grand thing. You actually just said
(21:59):
you just wanted to come in for a drink. You
were just human, and you asked if I could do it,
and if I couldn't, then I wasn't going to. You
gave me the choice. So I think that's just honest.
You just be honest with them and give them the choice.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's cool. And do you think you would have done
that twenty years ago, when before you started getting into
negotiating and doing all this stuff you're doing, or what
do you just walked away?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I probably would have been one of the same people
that come up to say, you know, we're celebrating this
anniversary or insert X thing that they probably hear all
the time, and we think that we're being so slick
saying that versus people actually do like to help other
(22:47):
people and just give them the choice. And if it
was a no, and she knew, like I was okay
with that, there was no pressure.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's awesome. Okay, last one, and I want to note
one because this is the last question that we kind
of have looked at. But in this age of AI,
this world of implanted in your brain, if you could
implant one skill that we haven't talked about yet into
everybody's brain before they after they left the Mally Bloomquist
(23:20):
negotiating seminar or whatever we were. What would that thing be.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Sincerity? I mean, as you mentioned, we have AI, We
have so much information at our fingertips. You know, there
are things that we can plan for. We can have
all these tactics, we can do a ton of research
on people. But if you are sincere and you are authentic,
that connects with people and it shines through and you
(23:48):
can fake it a little bit, but if it's time
over time you're interacting, say your coworkers, your employees, or
just people who actually can pick it up. We all
know insincere people, and I'm really hesitant to do business
with somebody who's insincere. And I know that when when
clients or perspective clients reach out to me if they
(24:09):
want help with something, if I feel that it's not
going to be a good fit, whether it's they're they're
not honest or they're not candid, it's not worth my reputation.
It's not worth it's not worth it. And so when
you can be sincere and you can be authentic in
your dealings, I just think really great outcomes happen, and
(24:30):
sometimes those great outcomes aren't once you imagined.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, and so and and I went through some of
the other stuff. So right now you're also security specialists
and all this stuff they do here. So right now,
in this world of AI and everything that's happening in
everybody's information everywhere, what's one or two things that businesses
should be thinking about when it comes to AI technology,
and you've been in fraud and everything else. What's something
(24:57):
that people are just leaving uncovered that they they probably
shouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
When we talk about AI in business. The thing that
really jumps out to me, I mean chat, GPTAI. People
use this. It's becoming more and more popular. I mean
I use it too. Yes, turning on confidentiality mode or
privacy mode, or being very careful about the information that
you are putting into these models. There are large language models,
(25:27):
they're learning models, so they're taking that and even though
they're giving you the output that you want, they're going
to use that for something else. And so what you're
putting in, if it's confidential, if it's sensitive, be very
careful what you put into it.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's very good and so wouldn't you go in to
have a discussion or negotiate or work with somebody in
a business or government, do you have an opening gambit
of questions that you have already designed or already before
you've gone in, and then see when you get in
(26:07):
the room which one you think is going to work
the best or is it so innate now that you
can kind of bring it to the table as soon
as you see the other person.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I'll always prepare, I'll have I'll have some maybe some
talking points or some questions or some ideas, but I
really want to listen to the other side and see
how that goes and let that drive it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
I think sometimes when people think of when they're entering
a negotiation or they're entering an interview, he who strikes
first wins. I don't know that I agree with that.
I think sometimes but you also can show your hand
soon and that may not be where you want to go.
So but I always think it is good to be prepared,
(26:54):
you know, Like when I look at anything in life,
I ask myself this question, do I feel prepared enough
that if I go into this and it doesn't work out, well,
I regret that I didn't take that extra time to
do it. If the answer is yes, then I need
some I need to do some more work. And if
the answer is no, that I wouldn't regret and it
(27:15):
didn't work out, then I know I've prepared.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, that's fabulous. So we call this, I call this
the rewind moment. So if you were to summarize one
sentence or one thing that brought you back to starting
this over again, they said, Molly boom Christ, that was
an amazing wind up moment and rewind all the way
back to the beginning to listen to the whole interview.
(27:38):
What would be your main takeaway or your main point
and something that we've possibly discussed already.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing of the whole. That's
a great question too. I think the biggest thing the
whole is is active listening and being flexible. You have
to be able to pivot and adjust.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Being flexible. Very cool and so good types of clients
for you? And where do we find out more about you?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I'm on LinkedIn Mollie Bloomquist spelled with one oh not two,
so that kind of throws you can throw people off.
So and my website's www dot Molly Bloomquist dot com.
If anybody is interested, please feel free to reach out Perfect.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you so much for coming on the gros Sell
and Retire podcast Mollie. It's been fabulous having you on
and sharing your expertise with us.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Well, thank you for having me. This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Thanks for joining us on grow Sell and Retire. For
more information, tools or to book one of our team members.
To work with your team business, or to speak at
your event or conference, visit rockfind dot co dot uk.
If you like the podcast, you'll love one of BT's
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The podcast is based on grow Sell and Retire. If
(28:58):
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(00:24):
Now here's your host, Bad with today's GSR podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey, everybody, Beaty Dalton here Grows, Sell and Retire podcast
And today we're talking with Molly Boomquist and we are
going to be talking about better negotiating skills for personal
and business use. So Molly, welcome to the show. Tell
us a little bit about your background and what makes
you a great negotiator.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me.
I'm really excited. I've been looking forward to this. I've
spent over twenty years with the US government. I started
as a government contractor, and just like anything when you're
starting out in a business, you work your way up.
So I've done a little bit of different things of investigations.
(01:13):
I used to do fraud audits, surveillance, counter surveillance, then
got into interrogations a little bit of polygraph and then
through that, as you work your way up and you
take on a little bit more of skills with management
and overseeing larger programs, you really learn negotiation skills, you
(01:33):
learn skills of interacting with people. And so that's been
the culmination of about twenty years. I know I boiled
it down and probably oversimplified it, but I'm not looking
to put anybody to sleep on your show.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
No, it's great. So what was your like, your first
win that made you know that this is the way
you wanted to be, your first win or your first
good success that made you think, hey, I'm pretty good
at this and I get that way, and kind of
walk us through what what the feeling was and how
it all came about.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, I don't specifically recall my first win per se,
but I will say because training is quite long and
it's it's as you can imagine, pretty intense, that it's
it's an only in government training that is not offered
to the public. It's not something you could you could
pay for or try to sort of, you know, talk
(02:25):
your way into. And and even after once you you
graduate from training, you're still on a year long program
because there's so many things to refine and tweak, and
I would argue, it's constant after that, and I would say,
what I noticed is when my family started to say,
you're different you you you speak with us differently, you
(02:47):
phrase things differently, and and to me, I'm like, no,
I'm the same person, Like I haven't changed. And I think,
looking back is my core values and who I am
never changed. But how I interact and how I communicate,
there's there is quite a shift. And and I just
I didn't piece that together at the time.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
That's that's cool because I actually I didn't send this
question across. But something something I was just thinking about
is so sometimes we go in negotiation negotiations unprepared. So
what are some of the things that we should be
preparing before and not maybe about that specific negotiation, but
practicing before we go into a business negotiation negotiation with
(03:31):
our kids, but something that we should be practicing that
made you when your people say you're speaking differently to us,
that's just a preparation sort of model.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
It's funny you mentioned kids. When I when I speak
or when I host workshops, that is the biggest thing
I get is how do I negotiate with my kids
because I lose all the time. And so you know,
these are high powered executives. These are people who who
live very successful lot, but they're like I am held
hostage at my house and I just can't. I can't
(04:05):
go into it. So, you know, aside from as you mentioned,
if you're not researching the person or the company or
that situation that you're going into, I think the best
thing you can you can do is ask yourself, what
is my intended outcome? You know, what do I hope
to get out of this? And if I don't, what
(04:28):
what am I willing to walk away with and say
this this is okay with me? And so you might
always have your this is everything I want, but this
is everything I'm willing to say yes to okay? And
so what are your lines?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So is it growing it up?
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
And I know you can't do this like right on
the spot with family members or even but is there something?
Would you come to it with a list of things
if we're going into especially if you had a little
bit more time to prepare boardroom, business to negotiation, other
things like that, would you come with those lists, like
drawn out on a piece of paper so you can
(05:07):
visualize them, or how would you position it for somebody
who's just learning.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
So I think it's whatever works for the person. And
so if you're more of a visual learner and you
want to have some bullet points written out on like
a note card or on your phone, I think that's great.
If it's something more mentally, you want to have a
couple of bullets in your head, because if you're going
(05:32):
in and you're chatting with somebody and you're in the
middle of a discussion, you're like, hold on one second,
let me pull out my notes, And if you're looking
at your phone, that could be a sign that you're
distracted or something else is going on. So I would
also be mindful of some of those unintended signals that
could be conveyed and so that you wouldn't want that
(05:53):
to be a distraction. But yeah, I would go in
to say, well, what do I hope to get out
of this with the information I have right now? But
what also is is really key and important is you
could have a list of safe or I could have
a list of three things I'm hoping to get out
of out of a conversation, be it with a family
a family member with with somebody in business with maybe
somebody I'm looking to hire or to do business with,
(06:16):
But depending on the feedback and the communication the information
they give me, I may adjust that. And so also
being flexible is really really important because we make decisions
with the information we have at the time, and if
new information comes to light, you may want to reposition
what you thought you were going into strategy was, or
(06:38):
you're what you want to come out of it, And
so you don't want to really be two set in stone.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And I was watching some of the videos on your
on on your page, and so you talk about silence,
and we're not going to do silence here because it's
radio show, so we don't. They might they might think
that we've skipped skipped this. But you talk about silence there.
And you also talked about taking a break, so during
a negotiation, and this is not high stakes terrorist hostage negotiation,
(07:06):
this is a business negotiation. Is it a sign of
weakness to say, could we take a five minute precess,
could we have a walk around the block, could we
take a lunch break? Is that a sign of weakness
or is that a sign of strength?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
In a lot of cases, absolutely not a sign of weakness.
If somebody needs a break or they want to take
a walk, I think it's fine to ask for that.
You know, there's nothing wrong with that. Hey, I would
like to collect my thoughts or do you mind if
we pause for about five minutes and then let's revisit this.
There's nothing I mean, would it offend you if somebody
(07:40):
asked you for that?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, it's just one of those if you're in the
middle of your we're in a heated debate, or we're
in a heated you know, I'll give you five, you
give me four or whatever this and then you just say, cool,
let's think about this, and can I walk around the
block and think collect my thoughts? And I'm just wondering
if that started to look like a sign of week's
versus versus saying I think this is important, or if
(08:04):
there was some terminology that you would use.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
No, No, I think it's what the terminology is whatever
is authentic to the person and applicable to the situation.
Because what could work in one situation may not work
in another. So again, it's about being flexible and reading
the situation, but also too in terms of you know,
power of silence, So absent taking a break to say,
(08:28):
walk around the block, or to leave the room. A
lot of times, silence is such a great weapon, and
we won't use this on as you mentioned on the show,
because that's not really the intent here. So the applicability
is it isn't so great is if I ask you
a question and say it's an interview, it's a discussion,
it's a negotiation. Even with your kids, I ask you
(08:52):
a question and you haven't responded quickly. You're taking your time.
Most people are uncomfortable silence. They will then start to
keep talking even though they want the person to respond.
Don't just sit, breathe and just and let them speak first.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
That's great one.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I mean, fifteen seconds can seem like fifteen minutes kills.
People aren't used to silence, and so those are things
you can do. And then when they speak, listen versus
just waiting them to respond. See what they're saying. Maybe
they're really considering how they want to respond, or they're
they're looking at a position of how they want to
(09:38):
they want to frame something. But if they've waited, they're
probably uncomfortable. They're really thinking about something that they want
to say next, and that could be really critical to
where you go next with the next question or follow
up discussion.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Those are fabulous, fabulous points. So I think you've interviewed
a lot of bad people, good people. You've interrogated, you've
gotten information out of them. What's a surprising kind of tell?
You know, how we talk about in poker that a
wing could touch of the sunglasses or whatever else it is.
What's a surprising tell that more people have than we'd
(10:16):
give ourselves credit for, you know, like twenty percent of
people or fifteen percent of people. Besides talking over everybody, Yeah,
that can happen.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You know a lot of times people people want to
know about body language, and the short answer is going
to be body language changes and changes a voice. And
so just to kind of take that a bit further,
we we all have tells, but something is sometimes nothing.
Now you and I don't know each other. This is
(10:48):
the first time we've ever met virtually. And it's a
little bit harder too when it's virtual like this. You know,
I can see you basically from almost the collar bones up,
and you know you the same with me. Yes, But
assuming you're in person, and assuming you've just met somebody,
you don't have to have a long history. Be aware
and be mindful when you meet them. When they sit,
(11:11):
are they mostly static? Do they shift around a lot?
And then as the questions or as the conversation progresses,
do they start shifting more and changing more? Is it
related to a specific topic? Is it just that you've
been sitting for a bit and they're just a little
bit uncomfortable, So they're just adjusting. And so what that's
(11:32):
called is an anchor shift. So for example, if I'm
sitting nice and still and then you and I are talking,
and maybe it's a topic I don't like, I physically
move from one side to the next. Maybe I just
needed to shift because I'm uncomfortable. But what I would
do personally, I would make a mental note of what
that topic was. I would go off that topic, discuss
(11:56):
something else, see if the behavior goes back back to
what I've observed as the baseline, and then reintroduced that
topic at a little bit of a later point, and
see if the shifts start to occur again. That gives
me a little bit of data points that maybe it
makes that person uncomfortable. So that sort of body language
(12:16):
and a nutshell, But you're pairing it because you're actively
listening to the topics. Second is verbal rate of speech
in words, when you're chatting with somebody, are they loquacious?
Are they shorter in their answers? How do they speak?
Is it fast? Slow, easy? You know, medium? And then
(12:39):
when a topic changes, does that change those All things
can be indicators and you don't have to know somebody
for a long time to kind of start to pick
up on those. It's just about paying attention very good.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
So if you're if you're looking. When I was going
through a lot of the stuff that you've been doing
research and you talk about it out on LinkedIn and
things like that, you talked about no oriented questions getting
people to almost that that reverse psychology and pulling people
in by using the negative and so walk us through
(13:15):
how how that works and talking to people and getting
into their getting to understand them better so you can
negotiate with them better or work with them better.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean these are these are This is one
of my favorite sort of tactics, if you will, is
people don't like to seem like like we quit anything
or that we don't want to do something. So it
could be trying to close a sale, or it could
be you know, having an employee do something, or having
your kids, having your kids maybe do something they don't
(13:48):
want to do when when you're chatting with them, just
you know, be candid. I feel like at this point
it seems like we're we're at a bit of an impasse,
and really I know that we want to bring this
to closure, and I just I feel there's an impasse
(14:09):
and put it on you, like I feel I'm getting
the impression there's sort of an impasse. Are you wanting
to quit? When people hear that, somebody's asking, are you
wanting to quit? You're initial reaction, No, No, I don't
want to quit right because because we're not quitters. And
then you know, the follow up would be great. I
(14:31):
don't want to either because I'm committed. And you can
take it a couple of different directions. What do you
feel right now or some of the the speed bumps
or some of the hiccups right now that we haven't
smoothed over that we should discuss where you can say, well,
in your opinion, how do we get there? So, no
(14:51):
matter what question you ask next, listen to their response
because you will get such valuable information of maybe something
that they had an objection to where they were concerned about,
and maybe it was something that you were aware of,
or maybe it was just something that they've not brought up.
That's new information. It'll help position you to go forward
(15:15):
with the next steps.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So in that without sounding repetitive, because if you if
you say I feel or I hear you three or
four times in the same two paragraphs, people start to go, now,
you're just playing with my brain. So how you know,
how do you make it so that you say it
enough times where they feel it and repeat it to
(15:38):
them and then move on to the next thing. You
know what, what's too many times saying I hear you,
I feel you, I believe that. When do we stop?
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I think it depends on the situation, you know. Another
way to reframe it could be just to recap where
we are, like I want to recap this to make
sure that we're on the same page, right, because that's
not I feel I believe. It's here's the situation, this
is what we've discussed, here's two, three or whatever, here's
the summary of this. Is this accurate? Yeah, and then
(16:09):
wait for their response and then you can move it forward.
Or if it's something to where you're making some progress,
but you're hitting a bit of a stalemate on that topic. Look,
we've made great progress on this. I think we're a
little bit we might be a little bit stuck right here.
Do we want to continue discussing this or are there
some other areas that we want to address now that
(16:30):
we can potentially resolve and then we can come back
to this.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
That's great. So you've you've worked with governments all over
the world, companies and all sorts of stuff. So what's
one one tactic that the governments or high stake negotiators
are using that we can use just in normal things
that we're missing out on we're clueless about very simply.
We've talked about language, we've talked about body language. But
(16:55):
what's something that's actually just innate in after your training
that's there.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I'll give you the answer that I'll ask if it
surprises you. Okay, empathy?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, I guess that's thoughts empathy. So if somebody is
drowning and you give them empathy, you're you're just just
I know that's not a negotiation tactic. But does does
that mean that you're you're as scared as they are
or you're just feeling that you believe and you know
that they're scared.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
So it's connecting with them. You know, people, people do
business and people people talk to people they know like
and trust perfect and so if you have empathy for somebody,
you know, like the situation might be hard or this
this could be a hard topic or wow, you working
through that had to have been a lot and it
(17:48):
shouldn't be fake, right Like we can show we can
show kindness or we can show authenticity to people. When
you when somebody feels that you're listening to them in
whatever they've shared matters to a degree. It's that human connection.
You instantly feel that you want to work with them
a little bit more and you have more buy in
(18:11):
if they feel says it's with the government or it's
in business. If you feel that somebody who's sitting in
front of you is just coming in, they're just gonna
ask you a bunch of questions. They're gonna speak at
you versus having a conversation with you. Your walls are up,
you're going to be less likely to want to communicate
(18:34):
with them in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
That's great about so I agree, I wasn't too shocked.
I was just trying to make sure that that I
understood where you're coming from and feeling that emotion and
feeling human because you're negotiating with other humans, aren't you,
No matter if it's a high stakes or go to
bed now, it's better.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yeah, And I mean I think too, Like you know,
it's just about building those quality cans m h. And
having that because whether it's it's with your network, or
it's somebody you've just met, or it's somebody that you're
interacting with and in a in a business setting, when
you build those connections, that's really when the magic can
happen and you can make breakthroughs.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
So here here's one for you, a little bit of
a curveball. So so you do high high steak stuff,
what's some what's some low steak stuff, like getting getting
a getting out of a parking ti I'm not saying
that you get out of parking tickets, but getting out
of a parking tickets, getting a good the best table
at the restaurant with the view. You know, what's what's
something that you like to have a little bit of
(19:39):
fun with in the negotiation pool, pond game, whatever you
want to call it.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Yeah, you know, actually it's funny you asked this, and
uh so we just spent the weekend in Seattle and
we went to a restaurant and apparently this restaurant has
behind it there's a bar. It's literally behind a bookcase.
So if we wanted to get an after drink dinner,
and you they don't take reservations, they don't advertise. It's
(20:07):
sort of like an invite only kind of a thing.
I'm like, oh, well that seems cool. I'm sure. I'm
sure the drink is overpriced, because you know, they're sort
of creating this ambiance. And we walked up and they're like,
we're sorry, ma'am. You know there's there's you know, there's
no waiting list for this. It's sort of like an
invite only, like you're not cool enough for this. And
(20:31):
I'm thinking in my head, well, probably am not cool
enough for this, but I'm still going to try, because
now you know, I'm curious. So great marketing on them,
that's kind of side topic. Definitely fantastic marketing for them,
because I was sucked in. I just wanted to see
what was behind this bookcase and it was really cool,
and so I said to yeah, you know, I get it, Like, look,
you have people who come up here to you all
(20:52):
the time and that probably either try to give you cash,
or they say who they are or who they know,
or they have some type of a SOB story. And
I mean, and she's like, she said yes. I said, look,
I'm an average Joe. We're up here, we're celebrating. We
(21:13):
just would really, I just would have loved of, you know,
we just would love to grab a drink and go.
Maybe you can't do that, Like I get that you
guys have rules and procedures and things to do. This
is just really it would just mean mean a lot
to me just to kind of see this. But if
you can't, you can't do this, or you don't want
to do this for us, I get it. I'm not
trying to stress you out. She let us in and
(21:36):
then I asked her later because like in my mind
I was curious because I knew what I was doing. Yes,
but I had asked her. I said, you know what
made you say say yes? And she goes, you didn't
try to upsell me or tell me that you were important,
which I'm not, or that you do so and so
or it was some grand thing. You actually just said
(21:59):
you just wanted to come in for a drink. You
were just human, and you asked if I could do it,
and if I couldn't, then I wasn't going to. You
gave me the choice. So I think that's just honest.
You just be honest with them and give them the choice.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
That's cool. And do you think you would have done
that twenty years ago, when before you started getting into
negotiating and doing all this stuff you're doing, or what
do you just walked away?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I probably would have been one of the same people
that come up to say, you know, we're celebrating this
anniversary or insert X thing that they probably hear all
the time, and we think that we're being so slick
saying that versus people actually do like to help other
(22:47):
people and just give them the choice. And if it
was a no, and she knew, like I was okay
with that, there was no pressure.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
That's awesome. Okay, last one, and I want to note
one because this is the last question that we kind
of have looked at. But in this age of AI,
this world of implanted in your brain, if you could
implant one skill that we haven't talked about yet into
everybody's brain before they after they left the Mally Bloomquist
(23:20):
negotiating seminar or whatever we were. What would that thing be.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Sincerity? I mean, as you mentioned, we have AI, We
have so much information at our fingertips. You know, there
are things that we can plan for. We can have
all these tactics, we can do a ton of research
on people. But if you are sincere and you are authentic,
that connects with people and it shines through and you
(23:48):
can fake it a little bit, but if it's time
over time you're interacting, say your coworkers, your employees, or
just people who actually can pick it up. We all
know insincere people, and I'm really hesitant to do business
with somebody who's insincere. And I know that when when
clients or perspective clients reach out to me if they
(24:09):
want help with something, if I feel that it's not
going to be a good fit, whether it's they're they're
not honest or they're not candid, it's not worth my reputation.
It's not worth it's not worth it. And so when
you can be sincere and you can be authentic in
your dealings, I just think really great outcomes happen, and
(24:30):
sometimes those great outcomes aren't once you imagined.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah, and so and and I went through some of
the other stuff. So right now you're also security specialists
and all this stuff they do here. So right now,
in this world of AI and everything that's happening in
everybody's information everywhere, what's one or two things that businesses
should be thinking about when it comes to AI technology,
and you've been in fraud and everything else. What's something
(24:57):
that people are just leaving uncovered that they they probably
shouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
When we talk about AI in business. The thing that
really jumps out to me, I mean chat, GPTAI. People
use this. It's becoming more and more popular. I mean
I use it too. Yes, turning on confidentiality mode or
privacy mode, or being very careful about the information that
you are putting into these models. There are large language models,
(25:27):
they're learning models, so they're taking that and even though
they're giving you the output that you want, they're going
to use that for something else. And so what you're
putting in, if it's confidential, if it's sensitive, be very
careful what you put into it.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
That's very good and so wouldn't you go in to
have a discussion or negotiate or work with somebody in
a business or government, do you have an opening gambit
of questions that you have already designed or already before
you've gone in, and then see when you get in
(26:07):
the room which one you think is going to work
the best or is it so innate now that you
can kind of bring it to the table as soon
as you see the other person.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
I'll always prepare, I'll have I'll have some maybe some
talking points or some questions or some ideas, but I
really want to listen to the other side and see
how that goes and let that drive it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
I think sometimes when people think of when they're entering
a negotiation or they're entering an interview, he who strikes
first wins. I don't know that I agree with that.
I think sometimes but you also can show your hand
soon and that may not be where you want to go.
So but I always think it is good to be prepared,
(26:54):
you know, Like when I look at anything in life,
I ask myself this question, do I feel prepared enough
that if I go into this and it doesn't work out, well,
I regret that I didn't take that extra time to
do it. If the answer is yes, then I need
some I need to do some more work. And if
the answer is no, that I wouldn't regret and it
(27:15):
didn't work out, then I know I've prepared.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, that's fabulous. So we call this, I call this
the rewind moment. So if you were to summarize one
sentence or one thing that brought you back to starting
this over again, they said, Molly boom Christ, that was
an amazing wind up moment and rewind all the way
back to the beginning to listen to the whole interview.
(27:38):
What would be your main takeaway or your main point
and something that we've possibly discussed already.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Yeah, I think the biggest thing of the whole. That's
a great question too. I think the biggest thing the
whole is is active listening and being flexible. You have
to be able to pivot and adjust.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Being flexible. Very cool and so good types of clients
for you? And where do we find out more about you?
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I'm on LinkedIn Mollie Bloomquist spelled with one oh not two,
so that kind of throws you can throw people off.
So and my website's www dot Molly Bloomquist dot com.
If anybody is interested, please feel free to reach out Perfect.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you so much for coming on the gros Sell
and Retire podcast Mollie. It's been fabulous having you on
and sharing your expertise with us.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Well, thank you for having me. This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Thanks for joining us on grow Sell and Retire. For
more information, tools or to book one of our team members.
To work with your team business, or to speak at
your event or conference, visit rockfind dot co dot uk.
If you like the podcast, you'll love one of BT's
three books, The Assistant Purchase, True Gravity and the Book.
The podcast is based on grow Sell and Retire. If
(28:58):
you want to work for the rest of your life life,
that is your business. If you don't, that is ours.
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It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.