July 8, 2025 • 53 mins
DJ Nik and Keith Bliss are joined by guest Heather Bedor to review "Brothers Grimm" !!! Enjoy ! If you would like to come on and discuss YOUR favourite movie send us a email with your movie of choice to : happinessindarknesshow@gmail.com . Check out our great tiers on Patreon : patreon.com/happinessindarkness !!!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ruled, ruled by magic and superstition.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This place is haunted by a which There were two
brothers named Griham. Your town shall be haunted.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
They were fearless, they were ferocious.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Does your money thank you, brother's grim?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Oh it's just dad. They were fraud How are you
doing trying to kill us?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm getting too bloody old for this. Now a town
under a curse. Ten girls in this village have gone missing.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
People who always knew that the forest was enchanted, but
it's never turned against us. Just found their only hope.
We're here to save your land from evening sharpness fels right,
you are son, the famous brother's grim. Okay, this strapping
young man, he is my daughter and a fine wife.
He'll make some lucky man. We need a guide, someone
(00:58):
who knows the forest. But the man who thought it
was all a hoax and no grandmother.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Don't show us the way and I'll give you a kiss.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Just not right. We'll discover there's someone in the woods.
How weird it can be. Don't trust the trees, don't it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We cannot fight an entire forest.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You're just scared.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
The queen has stolen your girls for their use. She
needs one more to make us smell worse.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
We'll find your sisters.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We can give it a happy.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The brothers grim if there's a certain way you like it, Grandmother.
I'm just trying to be.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Gentle show people. And welcome to our two hundred and
ninety ninth episode of Happiness and Darkness, the Superior Movie Podcast.
We'll discuss superior movies Marble, DC, dark Horse, Image and beyond.
I've been doing another of that. Naturally, there will be spoilers, folks,
so you have been warned. Even though this movie is
(02:04):
twenty years old. At this point, I am one of
your co hosts de Jink, and there's always joining me
as my superhero partner in Karme, the one and only this.
Hey Keith, how are you today?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I can't complain. Had a nice long weekend was the
fourth of July here in the States, probably the last
one we'll ever have, but it's a whole different rant otherwise.
It can't complain. It's a nice sunny day. It's I
don't know, I'm half awake. I feel like I haven't
slept in like a week, but you know, it's Monday,
and gotta love them.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
This is true, I guess like Garfield, we're not fans
of Mondays. And over here, we've had our second night
of consecutive second consecutive storm day, which was fun. At
least the temperature has gone down. Not any significant damage done, folks,
and not to worry, but but yeah, it was. It
was interesting to see you sort of everything kind of
moving and possible trees coming to crash into you. Luckily
that did not happened. But so that is the reason
(02:54):
why I'm still alive and here to speak to you
all and joining us returning to the podcast. You know her,
you love her. You can't live without a Heather ba door.
Hey Heather, how are you? And welcome back?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Hi, thanks for thanks for the warm welcome. Nick, not Keith,
but so happy to be here, you know, post fourth
of July, just another day here in the States. Went
to Disney last night to watch some good fireworks because
on the fourth I was at a casino. So hey,
happy to be here, Happy to see you, Nick, maybe
(03:25):
a little bit to see Keith. And I'm looking forward
to reviewing this awesome movie.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And I guess we chose the right time to do
this because, like I said, today's movie is celebrate this
year this movie celebrated twentieth anniversary because today we are
discussing The Brothers Grim from two thousand and five. This
was directed by Terry Gilliam. It was written by Aaron Krueger,
while the score was by Daddio Madionelli. This movie, It's
put in today's money, cost one hundred and forty five
(03:51):
million dollars to make. It made a one hundred and
seventy three million at the box office. So, Heather, as
you are a guest today, what are your genuine impressions
and thoughts on The Brothers Grim.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, considering that I may have influenced the movie choice,
like one hundred percent. I love this movie. It's a
guilty pleasure. Yet again something that I really discravitate towards.
I really always love those retellings of classic stories because
the Brother's Grim there are some really messed up stuff
(04:25):
in their stories, like really messed up, and then it
kind of got like the fairy tale washed from Disney
or Pixar DreamWorks or whatever, and then you have movies
like The Brothers Are Grin that come out and they're like, oh, yeah,
so you know this fairy tale, this is actually what
happened and I love it. I love the almost historical
(04:47):
value of it. Plus do you really have Matt Damon
with the world's worst accent and Heath Ledger in such
a different role, and then your favorite Monica blueg So
it's Nick's favorite favorite Italian model actress. Whatever, love her.
But there's a unique variety of characters that really help
(05:11):
add to the charm of us. Like I would say,
cold classic at this point. So I'm just happy to
be here and talk a little bit more about how
crazy this movie is still twenty years there.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And definitely will be a lot to discuss. We're very
happy to have you with us, and of course I
will let my thoughts be known on my fellow Italian
Monica when we get to her, of course. And that Keith,
I believe this wasn't the first watch for you either
during the span of the twenty years this movie has
been around. So what did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I'm just gonna be honest, I don't like it. It's
not a good movie. It has a great cast, but
it just it drags. It took me two and a
half days to watch this movie. I have seen it before.
I've seen it in a single sitting for whatever reason.
This last time I went to go watch it. It
took me for ever to watch. And it's no fault
(06:03):
of Matt Damon or Heath Ledger or any of the cast.
It's just the pacing is just it kind of killed
me and I just I don't know what it's whatever,
but it's okay. I remember it being like twenty years ago,
when I was much younger and a happy person, it
was a better movie. Now it's like, eh, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I will have to admit that, even though I have
been making fun of the fact this movie has been
around twenty years, this was the first time actually watched it.
I knew of it, and funnily enough, the Italian title
to this is The Brothers Grim and the Enchanting Queen.
That's how they marketed this because I suppose over here
in Italy they had to promote Monicabelucia as much as
they could, and so they added her into the title
(06:46):
of the movie. Or rather it would be the Charming
with the Charming Queen the Charming, which I suppose. But
that said, yeah, this being the first time watched I
watched it, I will use the tried and true phrase
of It's very much a product of its time when
you were getting movies of this ilk where you were
you were kind of mixing action and horror and a
little bit of this, little bit of that as we
saw in previous movies of the early two thousands, you know,
(07:08):
when we talked about stuff like I guess like Van
Helsing or even other movies like that. It very much
reminded me of it. It is different enough when it
comes to how our characters go from you know, being
con men to literally becoming heroes and has Heather pointed
out giving us somewhat of the origin of how these
tales from the Brothers Grim came along. I will agree
(07:28):
with you, Keith, the pacing was a little bit off.
This movie is almost two hours long, and I have
to admit that there were parts where I did feel
almost all of those two hours, the acting is good,
aside from some people which we will get to later.
And what I will never understand is why we have
people with the British accents in Germany, whereas the one
character who is Italian as an Italian accent, and the
(07:50):
people who are French have French accents, but of course
the Germans speak with a perfect or semi perfect British accent,
which I'll never understand when like, okay, fine, I get
it might have seemed a bit weird had you given
every the Grims or the other German people a thick
German accent, but it just seemed odd to me. Anyways.
That said, I really enjoyed the score. I thought that
(08:11):
was really good. It was the cgi or practical effects
were fine and were well done. It did capture some
of these elements that I do enjoy in a semi
horror fairy fairytale movie. So it did what it had
to do for me for the most part. But there
were times I agree where it did did drag a bit,
and I also have some questions when it comes to
(08:33):
choices that some of our characters made and will make
as the movie progresses. So I would say it was
middle of the road for me.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
So just ask you and Keith before we get into this,
because this is just you both mentioned this, the dragging,
the timing quote product of its time. We're talking two
thousand and five, So Keith, isn't It's fine, Keith, You'll
be okay, I'm gonna get it through. It's gonna be
our I wish you guys could just have like this
(09:01):
hitting camera at Keith right now. But do you think
that we have been so spoiled with being entertained and
then we're pushed? I remember when Titanic came out in
the early mid nineties, we were like, oh my god,
it's almost three hours long. Now we're sitting through Marvel
movies of three and a half hours. But because we're
so distracted, I think that we may have just like
(09:22):
shifted our mentality. It can drag, for sure, but this
was definitely the way a storytelling was was a very
long payout. So I'm curious of your thoughts if you
can attribute it to it being out in two thousand
and five.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I think that's mainly the reason, because, like I said,
the directorial choices were what they were at the time.
And you make a good point there, Heather, where maybe
I guess now our attention span watching movies that made
twenty years ago even further back can seemed to drag
because that was just how films were made. But I
do think also it's I mean, as far as i'm
(09:59):
concer I'm looking forward to hearing what Keith says about
this It's also I think how good your director and
your editor are when it comes to making a film
that is over over an hour and a half or
even two hours long, because even the movie from nineteen
minutes can seem like it's lasting forever. So it is
I think all down to how good your director and
your editor are working in tandem to make it feel
(10:22):
like no time has passed it all because I've literally
seen films that are three hours long and I and
just goes by so quickly. I'm like, wow, that was
three hours. Didn't feel like it. So one I would
say it's a probat if it's time, And two I
would say maybe the editor was a little bit asleep
on the job when it came to this film, because
I do think some things could have been trimmed just
a little bit. Keith, what do you think? I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You said it best. There are scenes that went on
longer than they should have, such as in the beginning
when they get captured after doing their scam and they're
in front of the blah blah blah blah blah and
he's completely unhinged, all of them are, and then you
keep cutting back to that group after something has happened
at the village. You know, like, Okay, we get it.
(11:06):
They are being chased by this group or they're being
held accountable by X y Z. We understand that's an
underlining substory, but we don't have to keep going back
to that. It doesn't help the story at all. It
doesn't move in a long This story had actually surprisingly
good pacing. If you were to cut most of that out,
other than the beginning to set up the story that
(11:27):
they have to go out to this village, it would
have been a much smoother paced movie because every time
they cut to them being tortured for something or doing
some other stupid stuff with that group, I'm like, cool,
fast forward because I know it has no impact on
the story whatsoever, because I've seen the movie, and then
I go back to you know whatever, I go back
to normal speed and watch the movie from the point
(11:49):
of their back at the village or they're doing whatever
they're doing. It's just that whole that sub story didn't
need to go on as long as it did. It
could have been just set up and go and we're done,
and that probably would have shaved at least twenty minutes
from the movie, maybe more.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think that also speaks to how editing also has
changed when it comes to movie making. Once again, what
an important thing is to have a good editor on
your film, and how sometimes that is an underestimate, almost
not saying it's a thankless job, but I think a
lot of people underestimate how important an editor is on
a film because the director might be just so indulgent
and self indulgent when it comes to making a film.
(12:30):
They'll make it go on forever and ever and ever,
whereas you and your editor is maybe the braver kind
of surgeon, kind of nipping and tucking because understandably you
don't want to lose your audience. Or it could simply
be once again, the fact that maybe either myself or
Keith weren't as engrossed in the story as possibly something
like yourself was head or other people who love this film.
But whatever the case, was.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
A guilty pleasure. But I mean also going into the
editing side, if you look at an editor, they can
only do what the director and the producer are allowing
them to do, so they're having to edit within certain
parameters as well. So I do agree in some aspects
some scenes went on a little bit longer like they
were trying to fill time. But I do get it.
I just I think that we've kind of morphed into this,
(13:14):
you know, twenty twenty five era of Let's be real here.
If we're watching a movie and I'm going to ask
both of you on the spot, were you guys scrolling
on your phone or on your computers or were you
very focused on the movie?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I I generally try to be on my best behavior
in watching any film, whether I'm like, whether I'm intrigued
or not. I will literally put whatever element of distraction away,
turn out the lights, and watch the movie and just
give it my full attention. And even though there are moments,
the moments were like dragging my feeling like when is
this over? I will attempt not to do something else
(13:47):
just to give that movie a fair shot, even though
it might not be my cup of tea, or like
this is really going on forever? Where's this going to end?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know? So just enjoy the torture a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
It's like, when, to quote this Simson's when did they
get to get to the fireworks factory? And they never do?
So it was my my frustration with this, Keith. I know,
I believe you're quite well behaved yourself when it comes
to watching movies.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
He yeah, right, Well depends are we talking about this
specific movie, Heather, or movies in general. If we're talking
about this specific movie. No, I was distracted because I
didn't care about half the crap that was going on.
Like I said, the scenes that I fast forwarded past,
I could care less want to pick up back to
the main story of the core story. Yes, I was
(14:33):
paying attention, but yeah, yeah, the side of the adventures
I didn't care about because I knew they weren't going
to go anywhere. But if you're a first time watcher, yeah,
I could see, like, oh, what's gonna happen? What's going
to do this? Like the two little hench idiots getting killed? Like, okay,
I didn't care. They didn't show you. They showed you,
like them getting tortured forty seven different times, and then
all of a sudden they're like, hey, look they're dead,
(14:54):
and you're like, wait, did you kill them? And you
don't show us that? Yeah, finally, So you know that
kind of situation. Anything with those two I knew wasn't
going to go anywhere, So I just literally fast forward
and didn't pay attention to anything they were saying or doing.
So it depends on.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The story of to day.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, I'm always honest. Sometimes that's if it's a movie,
yeah right. If it's a movie I've never seen before,
like say like the new Superman movie that's coming out,
I'll pay attention to the entire time. But if it's
a movie I have seen numerous times, then y'all goof off.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
That's totally fair point. Yeah, Keith definitely keeps us honest
when it comes to this podcast. I will say he's
the He's the honest one for sure. So I guess
then going to men who are not as honest as
they claim to be. Let's kick off with our characters
on the board. Starting with our brothers. We have the
aforementioned Matt Damon as Will Grimm and Heath Ledger as
(15:45):
Jake Grimm. So Keith starting with you, what did you
make of our brothers?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I enjoyed them immensely. They could totally be brothers in
real life. They just had that chemistry. And I chalk
up to Matt Damon and Heath Ledger. They're just those
types of actors that they get along very well. If
they're with the correct individuals to kind of co whatever with,
and they played it well. They like just the fact
(16:11):
that they were slapping each other around when they're drunk
at the bar. He grabs them and you know, just
all the silly crap, especially when Jacob walks in and
what's their face is trying to kiss his brother and
he gets all fussy and he runs away and he
just starts doing something. So it's just the fact that
they played off of each other that well. It made
(16:31):
it entertaining to watch. And I would have watched a
sequel with these two in it, and or you know,
a trilogy just because of these two guys. They just
do so well together, and you just watch any of
their other movies and it's just attest to these two characters.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Two actors, definitely two very versatile actors, indeed, especially when
it comes to somebody like Keith ledgerg and something like
this to playing the Joker and Heather, what did you
make of the brothers grim?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I mean again, I I Matt Damon great Heath ledger rip,
but Matt Damon with a British weird accent does not
work for me. But I love it. No, I shocking,
I know to regular listeners, I agree with Keith, like
they could have been brothers in real life. And I
(17:18):
will say the backstory behind the production for this movie,
like there was all sorts of like quarreling between production
studios and stuff. They waited ten months to release this movie,
so they even had more time to get bonded. So bonded.
That sounds terrible to bond during when it's so much better.
But like when they did like their press tour and stuff,
(17:42):
you could definitely tell the camaraderie was there too. Now
I really enjoyed it. It's interesting because the brothers grim
were real people in history. Is it a kind of
Stevis and their portrayal of it. You just want to know,
like how did you study for this role? But I
think that the although they are writers, you know, they're
(18:04):
going through this bumbling kind of con artisty adventure and
they're like, oh crap, this is like a real thing.
It reminds me very much of Scooby Doo, where there's
Scooby Doo. Keith made the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Face, how did you get to that?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Okay, I'm gonna tell you, so if you think about
Scooby Doo villains. They're always rigging weird stuff to make
it like, oh no, there's a ghost, it's haunting the carnival.
And then you know, they take off the mask and
it's mister Smith. You know, like grumpy old man just
didn't want those rascally kids to be running around the carnival,
even a carnivals pudy forgids like, but they're using it
(18:42):
to make money and be a haunted attraction. So I
see the grim brothers and brothers grim As they are
creating all sorts of crazy stuff so that people pay
them to remove these paranormal entities. So it has, I
don't know what, always had like a little Scooby Doo
esque thing like until they.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Come across it's not solving crime, committing crime.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Scooby Doo solve crimes.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Tending to solve said paranormal crime.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
The crime they're committing it's called a scam. Yeah, Scooby
Doo is not scaming these people. No, there's no scaming
in Scooby Doo.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yes, no, okay, but it's not not the Scoobyang.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I'm talking about the other people, the villains in the
Scooby Gang that it's not really Scooby Doo you're thinking
of No.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I'm talking about the villains in in Scooby Doo. Don't
pick on me, don't tell yes, so much easier to
pick on Nick.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, I'm I'm I'm the easy pickings. That's why. That's
why the people don't pick on me, because it's too easy.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
But you bring up you do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Bring up some mixt points. I think head when it
comes to uh, I'd be wonderful to be able to
least that Matt Damon down Os game is, how did
you study for this role? I mean Becauseooby Doo apparently,
I guess, But take a drink at this point because
we often name check Scooby Do at some point. Usually
it's Keith. I guess Heather did that before he could.
(20:08):
But yeah, it would be interesting when it comes to
the how they studied for these characters. But I definitely agree.
The chemistry is certainly there, and I think that is
because you do have such great actors like these two
working together. The accent. I agree it was a little
bit weird, and on both sides because every now and
then Heath's native Australian accent was showing in points. But
(20:30):
it's fine, it's okay. I'm like, okay, fine. If I'm,
you know, nitpicking up the accents, it means I'm clearly
not enjoying my time with his film. As I mentioned
earlier about you could have given him a slight German
accent with been fine. But what I appreciate about these
characters is how different they are and as brothers, because yes,
they do care and love each other. Will seems to
be the one. He is the ladies man. He's very
(20:52):
much enjoying doing all the cons because it gets some girls,
it gets some some kind of respect and money. Jake
really much has a chip on his shoulder, and I
think it's all starts back to the very beginning of
the movie when he was given magic beans and hopes
I believe of trying to cure their sister, who I
guess died because they weren't able to They didn't have
the money and they weren't able to cure them. And
(21:14):
Will every now and then reminds Jake about this, and
it's clearly tormenting him. But at the same time, they
don't really address other than Will telling magic beans don't
work and yelling at him that trauma is never really
addressed that. I would have appreciated it to be addressed
a little bit more of them having a heart to
heart and saying, you know, I was young, I made
(21:34):
a mistake. I shouldn't have done that. Maybe that is
what sparked I guess Jake's imagination of wanting to tell stories,
because he's clearly the nerdy one in air quotes, because
he loves writing about these these these tales the hears
when they go from one village to another, and he's
very much the more serious of the two, even though
he's of course participating in these cons with his brother.
(21:56):
I think that he would rather just sort of sit
down and write stories, right and doing this because they
don't have it, they haven't learned to trade that this
is what they do for a living. And then of
course it almost reminds me of the Boy who Cried Wolf,
because they go around saying this is this wolf around
everybody believes it, and they buy into it. And then
eventually a real wolf literally turns up and now they're
(22:17):
thrust into this adventure, and I guess use the talents
they had as con artists to ultimately save the day,
which was I mean, they never wanted to be heroes.
They just found themselves having to do this and then
you know, partnering up with people like Angelica and later
Cavaldi and such. So it was a it was a
it was a fun tale. Now I do wonder when
it comes to Angelica whether it's going to be a
(22:40):
three way relationship or whether that Angelica is ultimately going
to be hooking up with one of them that is
two TBD, I guess, but well, I guess we'll talk
about that here shortly. But I enjoyed these were They
definitely did a great job and you could clearly tell
they were enjoying themselves making this movie. So I think
that's the most important thing at the end of the day.
So let's get to those who were eventually joined Team Grimm.
(23:01):
We have PETERA Stormre as Mercurio Cabaldi, and Lena Hide
as Angelica. So Heather, starting with you, what did you
make of these two characters?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
One, I just have to give you kudos for pronouncing
their names so epic. Two you made this practice. Now
about is it going to be like a three way relationship?
It's freaking surce. Lanister of course is going to be that.
So it's It's interesting because obviously Game of Thrones came
(23:31):
out after Brothers Grimm, but to see you know, freakin'
Cercy as Angelica, I kind of forgot that was the thing,
but she is that. I don't want to compare her
to women at that time, but it was very much
that female for protagonist. I'm going to get everything done
on my own. I'm gonna do this. I don't need
no man. Oh, they give her a love interest. It's
(23:52):
very much like fanhousing. You don't need a freaking love
interest to move a story along. But you know, her
sister have been taken and she is just there and
she's like, yeah, no, this is this is really messed up,
and I'm gonna make sure that this isn't gonna happen.
But also like, I don't think this is a curse,
so I think that this is just what's going on
(24:13):
in our little town here, and I'll be helpful, but
also like I'm not really gonna be happy about it.
But she she softens, which is an interesting transition, but
it almost goes against your character as far as mercurial.
It's so so bad. Do you guys remember the movie
euro Trip?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yes? Unfortunately, I do.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
That's all. He reminds me of this guy Miscuozzy Miscoozie,
like the guy with the massaging and the train. Like
that's all. He reminds me of guys if you can
see Nick laughing, and this is the best thing ever.
But that's all. ID come on, like, it is so
overly done. He starts off being like the a hole
because he's taking these guys in and capturing, and then
(24:57):
he's like, oh, by the way, you're gonna come to
my town and fix the because clearly somebody is the
brother's grim like copycats and making this up. And then
for him to kind of have that realization of like, no, no,
this is actually a real thing. So he is. He's
there like ha ha, We're going to catch these bad
guys and he's like, oh okay. So interesting. But I
(25:21):
think again it's it's a sign of the times. It
was very heavily overdone characterizations, almost like caricatures of what
the characters were supposed to be for sure, but I
mean they're they're part of the posse, so it's an
interesting dynamic.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Very well said. I think that's very much. It is
once again, probably the time, So you're basically making caricatures
of certain characters. And Keith, what did you make of
these two?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to agree with Heather. It happens
from time to time, just like a broken clock. I know,
it's crazy, write it down. The fact is that it
almost felt like two different people wrote this story from
the tonal change, from the beginning to the end, with
these two characters. One is the headstrong female, which I'm
(26:10):
fine with and I will it is what it is.
They kind of a little like ham fisted a little
too much, where she was always trying to be like
I can do this by myself, I don't want help,
blah blah blah blah blah. And then you have the
village idiot who happens to be in a position of power,
who should have died from natural selection just because he's
(26:30):
a moron, but clearly he has not. And then halfway
through the movie you see the tonal change. She becomes
a little bit of a lovish interest. He gets a
shit together and he starts believing them and she start
They basically both start believing these two individuals from being
scam artists to individuals who could theoretically solve this problem,
(26:53):
and yes it happens to purely be by accident. They
solve the problem, but it is what it is. I
don't I'm with Heather again. They didn't need a love interest.
She could have just been your.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Diary today on twenty seventh, chis plus agree with me
at seven oh three pm Eastern time.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I know what happens. She didn't need to be this
silly love interest. She could have just been abducted like
the other girls because she was a abduction of convenience,
because they needed that twelfth soul or twelfth person, and
that's why she was abducted. And we didn't need a
whole all we have to kiss her to reviverr blah
blah blah. Bea Shenanigans. It's fine. I get it. They're
(27:37):
trying to do sleeping beauty, and they were trying to
throw in as many fairy tales as conceivably possible. I
feel like I should have been doing shots. Every time
a obscure fairytale reference came, like walking across the screen
or popped up, or was referenced like the evil witch
with the apple, I was like, really, guys, you're going
to be that way to be subtle and you know
(28:00):
all the other shenanigans that these two they could have
just been friends, they could have just Yes, he had
to the village, had to get his shit together, and
I know I'm swearing I apologize, folks, but once he does,
he actually becomes a reasonably normal person. He's like, you know,
I apologize, I'm sorry for me not believing you.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I'm going to keep the.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Armor because essentially it's a bulletproof vest. Here's your book,
you know, let's be friends, you know, forgive me. Yeah yet, yaha,
blah blah blah blah blah. And you're like, okay, this
is fine. And then she comes over and gives both
of them a kiss, and there's just weird, Like, okay,
it's it's almost like the end of Star Wars where
Leah kisses Luke and Hans alone. You're like, well, I'm confused.
(28:44):
So I think they kind of did that on purpose
to leave it open because while one loves her, she
loves someone else. So it's kind of like that weird
triangle based on you know, the last ten minutes of
the movie. So it's okay, I could have done without
the love interest again.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, I think once again, we're looking at a product
of its time and when it came to storytelling, where
you had this, you know, strongheaded, brave female who character
whould eventually maybe fall for one of our protagonists. And
that's very much what happens with Angelica, because when we
first meet her, she is the one, I think who
is the most capable of the lot. She's a great tracker,
(29:26):
she knows how to use a bow and arrow. She's
clearly very very competent with everything, and has clearly been
living up by herself for the longest time. And heck,
our brothers almost lose their stuff when they walk in
and she's skinning a rabbit like it's nobody's business. And
this film is rather graphic in places. I was rather surprised.
Not one, you have children literally dying, and on the
(29:47):
other you have well granted it wasn't a real rabbit,
but still literally a rabbit being skinned just in front
of you, And that I think tells you a lot
about who Angelica is and one independent woman she's been.
I mean the fact that she obviously still misses her
father and her sisters and stuff, but since then it's
been fending for herself. But yes, there is that tonal
change with her later when she gets closer to the brothers,
(30:08):
who also get their shit together as well, because they're like, Okay,
let's try and do this and figure out because this
is real. There is something going on in these woods.
We have to figure it out. So they make for
a good team. But I suppose, like you mentioned, Keith,
they leave it open ended when it comes to who
is Angelica going to pair up with? Not that that
is the fundamental question of this film, but I guess
(30:30):
by the end of it, you're like, Okay, so is
she going with Jake or she going with Will? What's
what's the deal here? But it's even Heather mentioned I suppose,
knowing who Lena would play later down the line, of course,
she might be polyamorous and just enjoy everything when it
comes to I love Peter Storm Madia for so many reasons.
I mean, he's an X next actor when when he's
given the right role, I remember him as being the
(30:52):
main villain Constantine, and he does a fantastic job of
being evil and malevolent here. He really hams it up
because he just wanted to and just wanted to have
a good time with the character of midicaudio. Yes, the
accent is very annoying. Yes, the fact that he keeps
calling them grimmy was getting on my nerves. But you know,
he starts from being this sadistic torturer to then like, oh,
(31:14):
I've got to do something. My life might be at stake.
Let's turn around and betray the French and go on
and be friends with these guys. So granted, the French
and the Italians did have of course, so we're working
together in inverted commas when it came to Napoleon and
what have you, because Napoleon did actually speak Italian and
not French when learnt French later down the line, which
(31:38):
is a common mistake people make when they give him
the strong French accent when they are when whoever's playing him,
he actually would have had a stronger Italian accent. But
that's neither here nor there. But yes, Milkaudio was very
much our I guess, our comedic relief for lack of
a better term. And even though he seemed to be
enjoying himself so much when he's torturing people, he just
turns a new leaf and I guess, no more torture.
(31:59):
I won't be a guy anymore. I'm just gonna hang
out with the brothers and have a good time. Which
was a bit of a weird tone shift and change,
but it's Peter. I guess we can forgive him, So
I guess. Then let's round off our characters with our villain.
We have the aforementioned Monica Bellucci as the Mirror Queen.
Woo so a Keith starting with you, what did you
(32:22):
make of our villain? Ah?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Wooh, no, be afraid Rapunzel. Okay, and I don't mean
in the mean way. She just was not in the
movie very long. And then we do finally get to
see the Big Bad. I will say the makeup they
kicked on her was impressive. All those prosthetics, the nails,
the hair. It was very entertaining to watch. But at
(32:47):
the same time, it was just very anti climactic. As
you and I have said on numerous occasions, they had
the five minute rule kick in. They realized, Hey, we're
getting to the end of the movie. We have to
use the Big Bad, and we have to destroy the
Big Bad and everybody has to live happily ever after,
And you're like, okay, go and they basically kind of
(33:07):
just speed run that whole thing. I do appreciate again
all the stories, the Rapunzel, the princess and the pee,
all the crazy, the magic mirror, all those references were
very entertaining to watch and to catch. Especially now that
I've known the story, I can kind of pay attention
to everything else going on in the room and around,
you know, especially with the the wolfman and a lot
(33:30):
of shenanigans as well. It's just again, they could have
put anybody in that makeup and it would have been fine,
because they didn't really utilize her too much other than
a couple of flashback scenes that five minutes and then
she's dead and you're like, all right, cool, so that happened,
and we're all just gonna go home and live happily
ever after the end, and you're like, all right, so
(33:53):
it was. It could have been anybody. It's unfortunate, and
I like her as an actress. She does something, she
has had some interesting parts, and I'm not opposed to,
you know, anything that she does or she you did
a horrible job. It's just again like you're just like,
all right, cool, and here she is and then we're done, Okay, bye,
thanks for coming, peace out. You're like, well, whatever, so
(34:14):
it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
We will be serving sandwiches and drinks of the wrap
up potzy, I guess exactly, and heather your thoughts. So
now villain, I love her.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Also, like I hate the way that let's just you
have a sleepy hollow worst that's kind of like cover
a chick in webs. You've got the creepy weird that
the kids are turning too, the mud people slash gingerbread
thing that always just iticked me out. It's the best
like that, just snicky. But I love her because it
(34:54):
is a classic big bad of a fairy tale. But
she's got like a courtyard past, and you know, when
you look into the character development of it, it works.
But she's kind of little Craig Ray. But not only
do you have like her wearabole of henchman ex huntsman dude,
But technically we think about it, she's like Lady Bathory
(35:16):
and she's technically a vampire if we think about it.
So they really hate to agree with Keith here, Dear Diary.
On September the July seventh, the seven twelve, I agreed
with Keith. Okay again, what's happening here? Nick? Is just
gonna sit here and watch this happen and unfold. But
(35:39):
she's just she's a great, big bad They did kind
of throw everything at it at the end and just
like wrap it up in a pretty little picture. Everything
just worked. There wasn't really any anything that's really going
to contest that what's going to happen. Oh, look the
girls come back. It's a happily ever after. I get it.
(36:00):
Whatever brother's grim, but also like, look at any brothers
Graham actual story and bad stuff happened to all the people.
That's all I wanted. And then to send them off
on their horses essentially onto their next chapter. They're like,
we're done because of this one crazy thing that happened
in all of our years of doing this. I think
that she was a great little add on. I loved
(36:24):
the cast and pieces. That's one of my cosplayer goals.
So there you go, shocking.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I would well looking forward to seeing seeing that said
cosplay because once again, I think some of the best
things of this movie were the costumes and the effects,
both special and practical. Because I agree when it comes
to the makeup is caked onto Monica when she's playing
like sort of the older version was Zombifide version of
(36:51):
The Mirror Queen. It was great, and it's not easy.
I mean, I haven't done it, but I'm assuming, honest,
it's not easy to act under all those prosthetics and
buy large. She did that. This was also a period
where Monica was getting type cast because of the fact
that you know, she's an incredibly attractive, good looking woman
and so on, and she always plays multiple movies, multiple movies,
(37:12):
plays a very sultry temptress with this very sort of
husky voice and such, and that's it's not necessarily a
bad thing, because there's a place for everybody in the
acting world. If that's what you're good at playing sultry temptress,
by all means, do it now do I think she's
an excellent actress. Not necessarily. She's good at what she
does is in playing these kind of roles. But other
(37:37):
than kind of whispering in your ear and doing sort
of all these kind of things, she doesn't really do
much other than that and screen. So I'm like, okay, fine,
but it's perfect to the role. I would say, even
though she kind of shoehorned Dinners the villain at the end,
they could have worked on that a little bit more
because we only know about this tale of whoever lives
in the Tower, and we don't really get to know
(37:58):
more about it. But yes, I agree with you, Heather.
We do learn she has some a tortured past which
may have also brought her to insanity, and that's why
she acts the way she doesn't behave the way she does.
But I would have liked a little bit more, I
really would have thought, which you would have made for
a more compelling villain had had she been more present
in the film, because it's literally this last ten or
(38:19):
fifteen minutes where you really have to deal with this character.
I mean, you do have an earlier moment, but it's
very brief, So I would have liked more of our
main villain rather than having it thrown at us in
the last fifteen minutes. But the mirror effects were gorgeous
or wonderful, especially when we see the queen dying and
all these kind of shards of mirror coming out of her.
(38:40):
That was really really well done. And yeah, I mean Monica,
as I said, we love you, But yeah, other than
screaming and whispering, that's really all she does. And if
you're listening to this, Monica, I do. I am very
proud of what you've done for our country and it
comes to cinema, but I hope they give you other
roles personally. So is there anything else you guys would
(39:01):
like to add on the movie before we get to ratings?
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Can we talk about the huntsman's crazy acts that just
looks completely out of place? The fact that it's just
this shiny silver axe that is supposed to be, you know,
however old it is and handed down generation after generation.
Shouldn't be rusty like the knives and the daggers that
were in the Witch's little bedroom and not look like
they found it at I don't know, pick your hardware
(39:25):
store USA kind of situation because it just looked so
out of place when they're using it's got the silver
handle and the silver n and the silver that and
the blah blah blah. I'm like, all right, it should
be a wood handle, should be slightly rusty. Even if
it's magic, it still should be rusty magic.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
There was a say the best Buy I guess probably
something of that nature. Hey, did you have anything else
you would like to add?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I would like to see a twenty twenty five version
of this movie.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
A remake would be interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, because I think that we've come so far. I
think that they can fix some of the things, like
the weird ginger bread mad mud girl things that still
gives me nightmares. But I would really like to see that.
It was great for its time. It does have that
cult following, but also like at the talent that's behind it,
(40:19):
we didn't know what that talent was going to look
like twenty years later.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Oh yeah, this is very, very true, especially when it
comes to what some of these actors and actresses would
do in the later down the line their careers. So
I guess. Then getting to ratings, Heather, what do you
give this film out of ten?
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I give it a seven. I give it seven spider eggs.
It's just I really like I loved it. Rewatching it,
I was like, this is so stupid, but like it's
like a guilty pleasure. Plus but what they were doing
at the times, and again the talent that was behind it,
(40:56):
and then I like those twisted fairy tales things like
I'm here for it. But I think that they'll have
much to be desired for sure.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Well said, and I think you bring up an next
appointment it comes to remake, I could possibly go for
that for sure, And uh, Keith, what do you give
this one?
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I'm gonna have to give it a seven as well.
It's not perfect. It's more of a, as Heather says,
a guilty pleasure, and it's fun to rewatch just for
the random fairy tales that they cram in here, because
you could tell this is obviously a bunch of stories
they smash together and just pick apart which ones which
like a Little Red Riding Hood and all the other
(41:34):
crazy Shnanians. I was waiting for seven Dwarves to pop up,
and I was like, all right, where's my Bengo card?
So that's seven out of ten.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I guess I'm gonna have to be the so called
Russian judge on this one. I'm gonna give this a
six and a half out of ten. As the things
I I know, right, I'm gonna six and a.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Half, but I hate giving out a half. I feel
like I gotta give it all or nothing.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
You're braver than I am, Heather. But yeah, it's a
six enough because the things that I liked, I liked,
I really really enjoyed. As we mentioned earlier, the costumes,
the score, the special effects. Fine, the story was a
little bit flip flopped here and there, but yes, I
also agree that the Spotter's Guide to fairy Tales was fun,
(42:17):
kind of saying, oh, you know, kind of like Captain America.
I understand that reference. So that was fun because I'm
also you know, like you guys, big fans of fairy tales, mythology,
you name it. So it was fun to see those
come into the story at some point and obviously how
those might have possibly an influenced Jake when it came
to writing said stories down. So yeah, six and a
half out of ten. Well, I rewatch it. Maybe not
(42:39):
maybe if it's once again, as often sudden this podcast,
it's a Friday night. You order some pizza, some adult
beverages and sit down and watch it. Yeah, you have
a good time. So it's definitely a Friday night kind
of movie. I think it's nothing too intense and nothing
too you your head is gonna explode trying to figure
out the story of a meaning behind said movie. So
if it does its thing, it's palpable and fair, which
(43:02):
is fine. So getting thus to recommendations, Keith, did you
have anything you'd like to recommend to the class for
those who in fact enjoyed The Brothers Grim.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
I have a very weird plethora of recommendations, and it's
all because of just weird things that made me think
of So the whole scamming angle that is not Scooby
Doo made me think of Ghostbusters actually, just because in
the first two Ghostbusters there's always a bit of a
scam going on or they're running some sort of angle.
Even if it's you know, meant well, it's still the Ghostbuster,
(43:35):
so you know, some shenanigans is afoot. So both Ghostbusters
for me, weirdly enough, an animated movie called Tangled. If
you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. If
you haven't seen it, you should go see it because
it kind of gives me those vibes. And then Hoodwinked,
which is another horrifically terrible animated cartoon, but the story
(43:58):
is very funny.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Well, those are great, great recommendations for sure. And head,
do you have anything you'd like to recommend?
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, once upon a time the TV series that was out,
I think it was to Reefine, it's not garbage. I
love that he goes on mute immediately. Actually, when I
rewatch this movie.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
To do the podcast, it's garbage. It's green screen garbage.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Are you done? You had your chance to talk. It's
turn to talk now, but back on mean, I like
you better that way. Your head is awfully shiny today,
by the way, but I can see some of the
hair regross. I'm very impressed. Anyways, Once upon a Time,
because it's a twisted fairy tale, it's interesting to see
how they throw different characters shown. Plus hello, young Sebastian
stand as a mad hatter. Come on, yeah, I would
(44:48):
recommend that you hold LinkedIn all but other crap. We'll
watch Once upon a Time. Give a series a shot
if you haven't seen it, or give it a rewatch
now that you're twenty years older, and uh, you know,
see what you can find, what kind of little digs
they put into traditional fairy tales. Or read Greg Gray
McGuire books. Because Greg Gray McGuire wrote Wicked Confessions of
(45:11):
an Ugly Stepsister. He wrote the traditional villain side stories
for deeper understanding, and it's really incredible to watch and
read and watch Wicked if you want to go that
way too.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Well, as always brings some excellent recommendations as well. I'm
going to be mister Lazybones through this week as I'm
going to be recommend the same thing I recommended last week,
which is speaking of TV shows, the TV show Grim,
which I thoroughly enjoyed and I'm planning at some point
to do a rewatch of that. They keep having these
rumors that a new season will be coming out. Sadly,
we haven't heard anything new, but they keep teasing it,
(45:46):
at least the fans on various social media keep saying, oh,
there's a new series coming out. Nothing yet, Hopefully it
will come back, as I thoroughly enjoyed Grim as well
in the vein of something like Once upon a Time.
So that's my recommendation for the week. So of course,
dear listeners, if you want to share your thoughts on
the films we discuss here, you can should an email
to Happiness and Darkness How at gmail dot com. Once again,
(46:09):
Happiness and Darkness How at gmail dot com. You can
of course follow us on our social media. You can
find us on Facebook where it combines us Happiness and
Darkness or also on x at High Darkness Pod. Of course,
thank you very much if you're following us already, and
if you are, of course listening to us on such
podcasts that are and such chat out and such streaming
platforms as Spotify or app podcasts, be sure to rate
(46:31):
and review us. That keeps the algorithm stimulated and allows
our little podcast to reach more like minded ears like yours.
So big thank you those who have done so. A
future thank you to those who will so heather when
you're not here gracing us with your presence discussing such
films as The Brothers Grim, Where can folks find you
on the ever vast interwebs Well.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
In about thirty seven minutes, I'll be hosted by own podcast,
The Broadway fin Club on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and send
the Kid Spotify, where we talk about all things theater related.
Do reviews have special guests that are producers, performers. Tonight
we have Brenda McLaughlin who is a theater influencer. So
(47:14):
it's always a good time. It's like sitting around and
hanging out with your friends. Fairious and more to the show,
but no Keith, but it's a really great time and
us Yeah you should. I would love to hear what
your thoughts are on theater if you want to find us,
very much thanks at the Bwave Fan Club, or you
(47:34):
can go on Facebook, or you can go to our
website www dot the Broadwayfanclub dot com. But I'll take
you to all one hundred and three fan groups that
we currently operate for different Broadway and off Broadway groups.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Very nice, indeed, And yes, I know that Keith is
a w A theater go a big fan of Rent.
If I'm not mistaken, I am exactly. I remember he's
sharing his love for Rent, so I'm like, you know,
he picks the good ones, so so good. Good to
know that. In fact, I remember that.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Yeah's a classic.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
We can it's a classic, but yeah, we won't go
into it.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
It's a product of its time. As we said everything
in that eraror, it's a product of its.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Time, very much, so very much so when it when
it comes to myself, folks, you can find it my
day job hosting the radio show Whiskey and Cigarettes, where
we play the very best and nothing but the best
of country music for you guys from Malabama to Zach Brown.
More information about that and where, of course tune in
you come is our website, which is Whiskey and Cigarettes
show dot Com podcasting wise, you can also find myself
(48:39):
and do this two lovely ladies, Zan Sprouse and of
course Rachel Friend on gold Standard the Oscars Podcast, where
we have reviewed all the movies the best Picture Wing
movies in chronological order and are now reviewing moves that
we have picked, and we also have returning a new
co hosts bring their favorite movies to the gold Standard
Theater coming up next as of next week. As of
(49:01):
this recording, Nieka YouTube content creator is going to be
joining us with her pick and that movie will be
into State sixty, which I had never seen before and
I'm kind of glad and spoilers, I'm kind of glad
I did. And last but seting not least myself and
Charles Skaggs can be found on the fandom Zone. We
will returning to review these second season of Za Sandman
(49:21):
as of next Saturday, and the Mister Bliss when You're
not here discussing Brothers, Grim and other superhero related movies
heroic or not superheroic.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
We folks find you mowing my lawn because it's a
jungle right now because we had all this rain down
here in North Carolina. But what I'm not doing that
you can find me on the gold Standard. I've popped
up on your podcast once. I'll probably do it again
at some point just to torture you guys. Let's see,
the Hour of Comics is upon us. I've showed up
on there this year, Star Trek the Undiscovered Podcast, and
(49:53):
I know of another one, but I'm drawing a blind.
But when you can't find me at any of those places,
you can always hit me up on our Facebook page
chat comment like, whatever the case may be, I'm always
around to talk about anything combooks, cartoons, anime, manga, you
pick it.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Great stuff. And yes, Sir Keith is very knowledgeable on
multiple things, and I can attest to this. I say
this pretty much almost every week. But the man is
a wealth of knowledge and has often schooled me on
many properties that I don't have much knowledge of and
give me the crib notes. So I guess I don't
have to watch him. He's like, this is what happens?
Is IM like, thank you, now I don't have to
watch him. I was like, that's that's like one hundred
(50:29):
million hours of my time that I won't have to
worry about using anytime soon, because Keith gave me this
summer which was fantastic. Speaking of new watches, when it
comes to this show, next time, we will be taking
on a movie from this year believe it's not twenty
twenty five, and that will be the James Gunn directed
film Superman, so back into the superhero stuff proper, and
(50:53):
a certain Charles Skaggs should be joining us for that one,
making his return. That's gonna be our three hundred episode.
And i'd just like to I'm folks that the very
first episode we have did of Happiness in Darkness was
myself and Charles and we did review Superman the movie
from way back when. So it's kind of a nice
coming full circle and I'm sure we'll have a lot
of things to say about that, Charles of course being
(51:13):
a huge, huge Superman fan. So first off, Heather, thank
you so much for joining us. You always make the
conversation incredibly lively and entertaining and bring some great insights.
Look forward to having you back sooner rather than later.
And of course all the best for you your podcast
this evening, and hope you guys have a ball.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Thank you, we will. We've got a lot to talk about.
And I'm gonna go gargle some saltwater some there. Now
they're not with some fun out of steam. But thanks
always for having me. It was a pleasure to talk
to you and Keith. I know, shocking, but always a
lot of fun. Can't wait for next time.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
We definitely forward to having you back for sure, and
the Keith. And obviously neither you nor I have seen
this movie yet. So what are you expecting from this
Superman movie? Are you optimistic? Are you pessimistic?
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Feel very sorry interrupt Nick. Yeah, now I have very
mid expectations for this movie. I was not a fan
of the last Guardian of the Galaxy movie or the
one before that, so we're just kind of upsetting the tone.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
MM. Well, hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. I guess
we'll see what James Gunn does with the DC. We've
seen what he did with the MCU. So of course, folks,
thanks to always this issue in supporting us. We will
see you next time with Superman. Until then, thank you
so much for the privilege real time, stay super Shout Mommy,
(53:00):
Think
Ruled, ruled by magic and superstition.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This place is haunted by a which There were two
brothers named Griham. Your town shall be haunted.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
They were fearless, they were ferocious.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Does your money thank you, brother's grim?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Oh it's just dad. They were fraud How are you
doing trying to kill us?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I'm getting too bloody old for this. Now a town
under a curse. Ten girls in this village have gone missing.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
People who always knew that the forest was enchanted, but
it's never turned against us. Just found their only hope.
We're here to save your land from evening sharpness fels right,
you are son, the famous brother's grim. Okay, this strapping
young man, he is my daughter and a fine wife.
He'll make some lucky man. We need a guide, someone
(00:58):
who knows the forest. But the man who thought it
was all a hoax and no grandmother.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Don't show us the way and I'll give you a kiss.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Just not right. We'll discover there's someone in the woods.
How weird it can be. Don't trust the trees, don't it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We cannot fight an entire forest.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You're just scared.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
The queen has stolen your girls for their use. She
needs one more to make us smell worse.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
We'll find your sisters.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
We can give it a happy.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The brothers grim if there's a certain way you like it, Grandmother.
I'm just trying to be.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Gentle show people. And welcome to our two hundred and
ninety ninth episode of Happiness and Darkness, the Superior Movie Podcast.
We'll discuss superior movies Marble, DC, dark Horse, Image and beyond.
I've been doing another of that. Naturally, there will be spoilers, folks,
so you have been warned. Even though this movie is
(02:04):
twenty years old. At this point, I am one of
your co hosts de Jink, and there's always joining me
as my superhero partner in Karme, the one and only this.
Hey Keith, how are you today?
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I can't complain. Had a nice long weekend was the
fourth of July here in the States, probably the last
one we'll ever have, but it's a whole different rant otherwise.
It can't complain. It's a nice sunny day. It's I
don't know, I'm half awake. I feel like I haven't
slept in like a week, but you know, it's Monday,
and gotta love them.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
This is true, I guess like Garfield, we're not fans
of Mondays. And over here, we've had our second night
of consecutive second consecutive storm day, which was fun. At
least the temperature has gone down. Not any significant damage done, folks,
and not to worry, but but yeah, it was. It
was interesting to see you sort of everything kind of
moving and possible trees coming to crash into you. Luckily
that did not happened. But so that is the reason
(02:54):
why I'm still alive and here to speak to you
all and joining us returning to the podcast. You know her,
you love her. You can't live without a Heather ba door.
Hey Heather, how are you? And welcome back?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Hi, thanks for thanks for the warm welcome. Nick, not Keith,
but so happy to be here, you know, post fourth
of July, just another day here in the States. Went
to Disney last night to watch some good fireworks because
on the fourth I was at a casino. So hey,
happy to be here, Happy to see you, Nick, maybe
(03:25):
a little bit to see Keith. And I'm looking forward
to reviewing this awesome movie.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And I guess we chose the right time to do
this because, like I said, today's movie is celebrate this
year this movie celebrated twentieth anniversary because today we are
discussing The Brothers Grim from two thousand and five. This
was directed by Terry Gilliam. It was written by Aaron Krueger,
while the score was by Daddio Madionelli. This movie, It's
put in today's money, cost one hundred and forty five
(03:51):
million dollars to make. It made a one hundred and
seventy three million at the box office. So, Heather, as
you are a guest today, what are your genuine impressions
and thoughts on The Brothers Grim.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, considering that I may have influenced the movie choice,
like one hundred percent. I love this movie. It's a
guilty pleasure. Yet again something that I really discravitate towards.
I really always love those retellings of classic stories because
the Brother's Grim there are some really messed up stuff
(04:25):
in their stories, like really messed up, and then it
kind of got like the fairy tale washed from Disney
or Pixar DreamWorks or whatever, and then you have movies
like The Brothers Are Grin that come out and they're like, oh, yeah,
so you know this fairy tale, this is actually what
happened and I love it. I love the almost historical
(04:47):
value of it. Plus do you really have Matt Damon
with the world's worst accent and Heath Ledger in such
a different role, and then your favorite Monica blueg So
it's Nick's favorite favorite Italian model actress. Whatever, love her.
But there's a unique variety of characters that really help
(05:11):
add to the charm of us. Like I would say,
cold classic at this point. So I'm just happy to
be here and talk a little bit more about how
crazy this movie is still twenty years there.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
And definitely will be a lot to discuss. We're very
happy to have you with us, and of course I
will let my thoughts be known on my fellow Italian
Monica when we get to her, of course. And that Keith,
I believe this wasn't the first watch for you either
during the span of the twenty years this movie has
been around. So what did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I'm just gonna be honest, I don't like it. It's
not a good movie. It has a great cast, but
it just it drags. It took me two and a
half days to watch this movie. I have seen it before.
I've seen it in a single sitting for whatever reason.
This last time I went to go watch it. It
took me for ever to watch. And it's no fault
(06:03):
of Matt Damon or Heath Ledger or any of the cast.
It's just the pacing is just it kind of killed
me and I just I don't know what it's whatever,
but it's okay. I remember it being like twenty years ago,
when I was much younger and a happy person, it
was a better movie. Now it's like, eh, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I will have to admit that, even though I have
been making fun of the fact this movie has been
around twenty years, this was the first time actually watched it.
I knew of it, and funnily enough, the Italian title
to this is The Brothers Grim and the Enchanting Queen.
That's how they marketed this because I suppose over here
in Italy they had to promote Monicabelucia as much as
they could, and so they added her into the title
(06:46):
of the movie. Or rather it would be the Charming
with the Charming Queen the Charming, which I suppose. But
that said, yeah, this being the first time watched I
watched it, I will use the tried and true phrase
of It's very much a product of its time when
you were getting movies of this ilk where you were
you were kind of mixing action and horror and a
little bit of this, little bit of that as we
saw in previous movies of the early two thousands, you know,
(07:08):
when we talked about stuff like I guess like Van
Helsing or even other movies like that. It very much
reminded me of it. It is different enough when it
comes to how our characters go from you know, being
con men to literally becoming heroes and has Heather pointed
out giving us somewhat of the origin of how these
tales from the Brothers Grim came along. I will agree
(07:28):
with you, Keith, the pacing was a little bit off.
This movie is almost two hours long, and I have
to admit that there were parts where I did feel
almost all of those two hours, the acting is good,
aside from some people which we will get to later.
And what I will never understand is why we have
people with the British accents in Germany, whereas the one
character who is Italian as an Italian accent, and the
(07:50):
people who are French have French accents, but of course
the Germans speak with a perfect or semi perfect British accent,
which I'll never understand when like, okay, fine, I get
it might have seemed a bit weird had you given
every the Grims or the other German people a thick
German accent, but it just seemed odd to me. Anyways.
That said, I really enjoyed the score. I thought that
(08:11):
was really good. It was the cgi or practical effects
were fine and were well done. It did capture some
of these elements that I do enjoy in a semi
horror fairy fairytale movie. So it did what it had
to do for me for the most part. But there
were times I agree where it did did drag a bit,
and I also have some questions when it comes to
(08:33):
choices that some of our characters made and will make
as the movie progresses. So I would say it was
middle of the road for me.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
So just ask you and Keith before we get into this,
because this is just you both mentioned this, the dragging,
the timing quote product of its time. We're talking two
thousand and five, So Keith, isn't It's fine, Keith, You'll
be okay, I'm gonna get it through. It's gonna be
our I wish you guys could just have like this
(09:01):
hitting camera at Keith right now. But do you think
that we have been so spoiled with being entertained and
then we're pushed? I remember when Titanic came out in
the early mid nineties, we were like, oh my god,
it's almost three hours long. Now we're sitting through Marvel
movies of three and a half hours. But because we're
so distracted, I think that we may have just like
(09:22):
shifted our mentality. It can drag, for sure, but this
was definitely the way a storytelling was was a very
long payout. So I'm curious of your thoughts if you
can attribute it to it being out in two thousand
and five.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
I think that's mainly the reason, because, like I said,
the directorial choices were what they were at the time.
And you make a good point there, Heather, where maybe
I guess now our attention span watching movies that made
twenty years ago even further back can seemed to drag
because that was just how films were made. But I
do think also it's I mean, as far as i'm
(09:59):
concer I'm looking forward to hearing what Keith says about
this It's also I think how good your director and
your editor are when it comes to making a film
that is over over an hour and a half or
even two hours long, because even the movie from nineteen
minutes can seem like it's lasting forever. So it is
I think all down to how good your director and
your editor are working in tandem to make it feel
(10:22):
like no time has passed it all because I've literally
seen films that are three hours long and I and
just goes by so quickly. I'm like, wow, that was
three hours. Didn't feel like it. So one I would
say it's a probat if it's time, And two I
would say maybe the editor was a little bit asleep
on the job when it came to this film, because
I do think some things could have been trimmed just
a little bit. Keith, what do you think? I mean?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
You said it best. There are scenes that went on
longer than they should have, such as in the beginning
when they get captured after doing their scam and they're
in front of the blah blah blah blah blah and
he's completely unhinged, all of them are, and then you
keep cutting back to that group after something has happened
at the village. You know, like, Okay, we get it.
(11:06):
They are being chased by this group or they're being
held accountable by X y Z. We understand that's an
underlining substory, but we don't have to keep going back
to that. It doesn't help the story at all. It
doesn't move in a long This story had actually surprisingly
good pacing. If you were to cut most of that out,
other than the beginning to set up the story that
(11:27):
they have to go out to this village, it would
have been a much smoother paced movie because every time
they cut to them being tortured for something or doing
some other stupid stuff with that group, I'm like, cool,
fast forward because I know it has no impact on
the story whatsoever, because I've seen the movie, and then
I go back to you know whatever, I go back
to normal speed and watch the movie from the point
(11:49):
of their back at the village or they're doing whatever
they're doing. It's just that whole that sub story didn't
need to go on as long as it did. It
could have been just set up and go and we're done,
and that probably would have shaved at least twenty minutes
from the movie, maybe more.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think that also speaks to how editing also has
changed when it comes to movie making. Once again, what
an important thing is to have a good editor on
your film, and how sometimes that is an underestimate, almost
not saying it's a thankless job, but I think a
lot of people underestimate how important an editor is on
a film because the director might be just so indulgent
and self indulgent when it comes to making a film.
(12:30):
They'll make it go on forever and ever and ever,
whereas you and your editor is maybe the braver kind
of surgeon, kind of nipping and tucking because understandably you
don't want to lose your audience. Or it could simply
be once again, the fact that maybe either myself or
Keith weren't as engrossed in the story as possibly something
like yourself was head or other people who love this film.
But whatever the case, was.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
A guilty pleasure. But I mean also going into the
editing side, if you look at an editor, they can
only do what the director and the producer are allowing
them to do, so they're having to edit within certain
parameters as well. So I do agree in some aspects
some scenes went on a little bit longer like they
were trying to fill time. But I do get it.
I just I think that we've kind of morphed into this,
(13:14):
you know, twenty twenty five era of Let's be real here.
If we're watching a movie and I'm going to ask
both of you on the spot, were you guys scrolling
on your phone or on your computers or were you
very focused on the movie?
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I I generally try to be on my best behavior
in watching any film, whether I'm like, whether I'm intrigued
or not. I will literally put whatever element of distraction away,
turn out the lights, and watch the movie and just
give it my full attention. And even though there are moments,
the moments were like dragging my feeling like when is
this over? I will attempt not to do something else
(13:47):
just to give that movie a fair shot, even though
it might not be my cup of tea, or like
this is really going on forever? Where's this going to end?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
You know? So just enjoy the torture a little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
It's like, when, to quote this Simson's when did they
get to get to the fireworks factory? And they never do?
So it was my my frustration with this, Keith. I know,
I believe you're quite well behaved yourself when it comes
to watching movies.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
He yeah, right, Well depends are we talking about this
specific movie, Heather, or movies in general. If we're talking
about this specific movie. No, I was distracted because I
didn't care about half the crap that was going on.
Like I said, the scenes that I fast forwarded past,
I could care less want to pick up back to
the main story of the core story. Yes, I was
(14:33):
paying attention, but yeah, yeah, the side of the adventures
I didn't care about because I knew they weren't going
to go anywhere. But if you're a first time watcher, yeah,
I could see, like, oh, what's gonna happen? What's going
to do this? Like the two little hench idiots getting killed? Like, okay,
I didn't care. They didn't show you. They showed you,
like them getting tortured forty seven different times, and then
all of a sudden they're like, hey, look they're dead,
(14:54):
and you're like, wait, did you kill them? And you
don't show us that? Yeah, finally, So you know that
kind of situation. Anything with those two I knew wasn't
going to go anywhere, So I just literally fast forward
and didn't pay attention to anything they were saying or doing.
So it depends on.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
The story of to day.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, I'm always honest. Sometimes that's if it's a movie,
yeah right. If it's a movie I've never seen before,
like say like the new Superman movie that's coming out,
I'll pay attention to the entire time. But if it's
a movie I have seen numerous times, then y'all goof off.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
That's totally fair point. Yeah, Keith definitely keeps us honest
when it comes to this podcast. I will say he's
the He's the honest one for sure. So I guess
then going to men who are not as honest as
they claim to be. Let's kick off with our characters
on the board. Starting with our brothers. We have the
aforementioned Matt Damon as Will Grimm and Heath Ledger as
(15:45):
Jake Grimm. So Keith starting with you, what did you
make of our brothers?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
I enjoyed them immensely. They could totally be brothers in
real life. They just had that chemistry. And I chalk
up to Matt Damon and Heath Ledger. They're just those
types of actors that they get along very well. If
they're with the correct individuals to kind of co whatever with,
and they played it well. They like just the fact
(16:11):
that they were slapping each other around when they're drunk
at the bar. He grabs them and you know, just
all the silly crap, especially when Jacob walks in and
what's their face is trying to kiss his brother and
he gets all fussy and he runs away and he
just starts doing something. So it's just the fact that
they played off of each other that well. It made
(16:31):
it entertaining to watch. And I would have watched a
sequel with these two in it, and or you know,
a trilogy just because of these two guys. They just
do so well together, and you just watch any of
their other movies and it's just attest to these two characters.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Two actors, definitely two very versatile actors, indeed, especially when
it comes to somebody like Keith ledgerg and something like
this to playing the Joker and Heather, what did you
make of the brothers grim?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I mean again, I I Matt Damon great Heath ledger rip,
but Matt Damon with a British weird accent does not
work for me. But I love it. No, I shocking,
I know to regular listeners, I agree with Keith, like
they could have been brothers in real life. And I
(17:18):
will say the backstory behind the production for this movie,
like there was all sorts of like quarreling between production
studios and stuff. They waited ten months to release this movie,
so they even had more time to get bonded. So bonded.
That sounds terrible to bond during when it's so much better.
But like when they did like their press tour and stuff,
(17:42):
you could definitely tell the camaraderie was there too. Now
I really enjoyed it. It's interesting because the brothers grim
were real people in history. Is it a kind of
Stevis and their portrayal of it. You just want to know,
like how did you study for this role? But I
think that the although they are writers, you know, they're
(18:04):
going through this bumbling kind of con artisty adventure and
they're like, oh crap, this is like a real thing.
It reminds me very much of Scooby Doo, where there's
Scooby Doo. Keith made the.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Face, how did you get to that?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Okay, I'm gonna tell you, so if you think about
Scooby Doo villains. They're always rigging weird stuff to make
it like, oh no, there's a ghost, it's haunting the carnival.
And then you know, they take off the mask and
it's mister Smith. You know, like grumpy old man just
didn't want those rascally kids to be running around the carnival,
even a carnivals pudy forgids like, but they're using it
(18:42):
to make money and be a haunted attraction. So I
see the grim brothers and brothers grim As they are
creating all sorts of crazy stuff so that people pay
them to remove these paranormal entities. So it has, I
don't know what, always had like a little Scooby Doo
esque thing like until they.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Come across it's not solving crime, committing crime.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Scooby Doo solve crimes.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Tending to solve said paranormal crime.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
The crime they're committing it's called a scam. Yeah, Scooby
Doo is not scaming these people. No, there's no scaming
in Scooby Doo.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yes, no, okay, but it's not not the Scoobyang.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I'm talking about the other people, the villains in the
Scooby Gang that it's not really Scooby Doo you're thinking
of No.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I'm talking about the villains in in Scooby Doo. Don't
pick on me, don't tell yes, so much easier to
pick on Nick.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yes, I'm I'm I'm the easy pickings. That's why. That's
why the people don't pick on me, because it's too easy.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
But you bring up you do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Bring up some mixt points. I think head when it
comes to uh, I'd be wonderful to be able to
least that Matt Damon down Os game is, how did
you study for this role? I mean Becauseooby Doo apparently,
I guess, But take a drink at this point because
we often name check Scooby Do at some point. Usually
it's Keith. I guess Heather did that before he could.
(20:08):
But yeah, it would be interesting when it comes to
the how they studied for these characters. But I definitely agree.
The chemistry is certainly there, and I think that is
because you do have such great actors like these two
working together. The accent. I agree it was a little
bit weird, and on both sides because every now and
then Heath's native Australian accent was showing in points. But
(20:30):
it's fine, it's okay. I'm like, okay, fine. If I'm,
you know, nitpicking up the accents, it means I'm clearly
not enjoying my time with his film. As I mentioned
earlier about you could have given him a slight German
accent with been fine. But what I appreciate about these
characters is how different they are and as brothers, because yes,
they do care and love each other. Will seems to
be the one. He is the ladies man. He's very
(20:52):
much enjoying doing all the cons because it gets some girls,
it gets some some kind of respect and money. Jake
really much has a chip on his shoulder, and I
think it's all starts back to the very beginning of
the movie when he was given magic beans and hopes
I believe of trying to cure their sister, who I
guess died because they weren't able to They didn't have
the money and they weren't able to cure them. And
(21:14):
Will every now and then reminds Jake about this, and
it's clearly tormenting him. But at the same time, they
don't really address other than Will telling magic beans don't
work and yelling at him that trauma is never really
addressed that. I would have appreciated it to be addressed
a little bit more of them having a heart to
heart and saying, you know, I was young, I made
(21:34):
a mistake. I shouldn't have done that. Maybe that is
what sparked I guess Jake's imagination of wanting to tell stories,
because he's clearly the nerdy one in air quotes, because
he loves writing about these these these tales the hears
when they go from one village to another, and he's
very much the more serious of the two, even though
he's of course participating in these cons with his brother.
(21:56):
I think that he would rather just sort of sit
down and write stories, right and doing this because they
don't have it, they haven't learned to trade that this
is what they do for a living. And then of
course it almost reminds me of the Boy who Cried Wolf,
because they go around saying this is this wolf around
everybody believes it, and they buy into it. And then
eventually a real wolf literally turns up and now they're
(22:17):
thrust into this adventure, and I guess use the talents
they had as con artists to ultimately save the day,
which was I mean, they never wanted to be heroes.
They just found themselves having to do this and then
you know, partnering up with people like Angelica and later
Cavaldi and such. So it was a it was a
it was a fun tale. Now I do wonder when
it comes to Angelica whether it's going to be a
(22:40):
three way relationship or whether that Angelica is ultimately going
to be hooking up with one of them that is
two TBD, I guess, but well, I guess we'll talk
about that here shortly. But I enjoyed these were They
definitely did a great job and you could clearly tell
they were enjoying themselves making this movie. So I think
that's the most important thing at the end of the day.
So let's get to those who were eventually joined Team Grimm.
(23:01):
We have PETERA Stormre as Mercurio Cabaldi, and Lena Hide
as Angelica. So Heather, starting with you, what did you
make of these two characters?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
One, I just have to give you kudos for pronouncing
their names so epic. Two you made this practice. Now
about is it going to be like a three way relationship?
It's freaking surce. Lanister of course is going to be that.
So it's It's interesting because obviously Game of Thrones came
(23:31):
out after Brothers Grimm, but to see you know, freakin'
Cercy as Angelica, I kind of forgot that was the thing,
but she is that. I don't want to compare her
to women at that time, but it was very much
that female for protagonist. I'm going to get everything done
on my own. I'm gonna do this. I don't need
no man. Oh, they give her a love interest. It's
(23:52):
very much like fanhousing. You don't need a freaking love
interest to move a story along. But you know, her
sister have been taken and she is just there and
she's like, yeah, no, this is this is really messed up,
and I'm gonna make sure that this isn't gonna happen.
But also like, I don't think this is a curse,
so I think that this is just what's going on
(24:13):
in our little town here, and I'll be helpful, but
also like I'm not really gonna be happy about it.
But she she softens, which is an interesting transition, but
it almost goes against your character as far as mercurial.
It's so so bad. Do you guys remember the movie
euro Trip?
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yes? Unfortunately, I do.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
That's all. He reminds me of this guy Miscuozzy Miscoozie,
like the guy with the massaging and the train. Like
that's all. He reminds me of guys if you can
see Nick laughing, and this is the best thing ever.
But that's all. ID come on, like, it is so
overly done. He starts off being like the a hole
because he's taking these guys in and capturing, and then
(24:57):
he's like, oh, by the way, you're gonna come to
my town and fix the because clearly somebody is the
brother's grim like copycats and making this up. And then
for him to kind of have that realization of like, no, no,
this is actually a real thing. So he is. He's
there like ha ha, We're going to catch these bad
guys and he's like, oh okay. So interesting. But I
(25:21):
think again it's it's a sign of the times. It
was very heavily overdone characterizations, almost like caricatures of what
the characters were supposed to be for sure, but I
mean they're they're part of the posse, so it's an
interesting dynamic.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Very well said. I think that's very much. It is
once again, probably the time, So you're basically making caricatures
of certain characters. And Keith, what did you make of
these two?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to agree with Heather. It happens
from time to time, just like a broken clock. I know,
it's crazy, write it down. The fact is that it
almost felt like two different people wrote this story from
the tonal change, from the beginning to the end, with
these two characters. One is the headstrong female, which I'm
(26:10):
fine with and I will it is what it is.
They kind of a little like ham fisted a little
too much, where she was always trying to be like
I can do this by myself, I don't want help,
blah blah blah blah blah. And then you have the
village idiot who happens to be in a position of power,
who should have died from natural selection just because he's
(26:30):
a moron, but clearly he has not. And then halfway
through the movie you see the tonal change. She becomes
a little bit of a lovish interest. He gets a
shit together and he starts believing them and she start
They basically both start believing these two individuals from being
scam artists to individuals who could theoretically solve this problem,
(26:53):
and yes it happens to purely be by accident. They
solve the problem, but it is what it is. I
don't I'm with Heather again. They didn't need a love interest.
She could have just been your.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Diary today on twenty seventh, chis plus agree with me
at seven oh three pm Eastern time.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
I know what happens. She didn't need to be this
silly love interest. She could have just been abducted like
the other girls because she was a abduction of convenience,
because they needed that twelfth soul or twelfth person, and
that's why she was abducted. And we didn't need a
whole all we have to kiss her to reviverr blah
blah blah. Bea Shenanigans. It's fine. I get it. They're
(27:37):
trying to do sleeping beauty, and they were trying to
throw in as many fairy tales as conceivably possible. I
feel like I should have been doing shots. Every time
a obscure fairytale reference came, like walking across the screen
or popped up, or was referenced like the evil witch
with the apple, I was like, really, guys, you're going
to be that way to be subtle and you know
(28:00):
all the other shenanigans that these two they could have
just been friends, they could have just Yes, he had
to the village, had to get his shit together, and
I know I'm swearing I apologize, folks, but once he does,
he actually becomes a reasonably normal person. He's like, you know,
I apologize, I'm sorry for me not believing you.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I'm going to keep the.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Armor because essentially it's a bulletproof vest. Here's your book,
you know, let's be friends, you know, forgive me. Yeah yet, yaha,
blah blah blah blah blah. And you're like, okay, this
is fine. And then she comes over and gives both
of them a kiss, and there's just weird, Like, okay,
it's it's almost like the end of Star Wars where
Leah kisses Luke and Hans alone. You're like, well, I'm confused.
(28:44):
So I think they kind of did that on purpose
to leave it open because while one loves her, she
loves someone else. So it's kind of like that weird
triangle based on you know, the last ten minutes of
the movie. So it's okay, I could have done without
the love interest again.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, I think once again, we're looking at a product
of its time and when it came to storytelling, where
you had this, you know, strongheaded, brave female who character
whould eventually maybe fall for one of our protagonists. And
that's very much what happens with Angelica, because when we
first meet her, she is the one, I think who
is the most capable of the lot. She's a great tracker,
(29:26):
she knows how to use a bow and arrow. She's
clearly very very competent with everything, and has clearly been
living up by herself for the longest time. And heck,
our brothers almost lose their stuff when they walk in
and she's skinning a rabbit like it's nobody's business. And
this film is rather graphic in places. I was rather surprised.
Not one, you have children literally dying, and on the
(29:47):
other you have well granted it wasn't a real rabbit,
but still literally a rabbit being skinned just in front
of you, And that I think tells you a lot
about who Angelica is and one independent woman she's been.
I mean the fact that she obviously still misses her
father and her sisters and stuff, but since then it's
been fending for herself. But yes, there is that tonal
change with her later when she gets closer to the brothers,
(30:08):
who also get their shit together as well, because they're like, Okay,
let's try and do this and figure out because this
is real. There is something going on in these woods.
We have to figure it out. So they make for
a good team. But I suppose, like you mentioned, Keith,
they leave it open ended when it comes to who
is Angelica going to pair up with? Not that that
is the fundamental question of this film, but I guess
(30:30):
by the end of it, you're like, Okay, so is
she going with Jake or she going with Will? What's
what's the deal here? But it's even Heather mentioned I suppose,
knowing who Lena would play later down the line, of course,
she might be polyamorous and just enjoy everything when it
comes to I love Peter Storm Madia for so many reasons.
I mean, he's an X next actor when when he's
given the right role, I remember him as being the
(30:52):
main villain Constantine, and he does a fantastic job of
being evil and malevolent here. He really hams it up
because he just wanted to and just wanted to have
a good time with the character of midicaudio. Yes, the
accent is very annoying. Yes, the fact that he keeps
calling them grimmy was getting on my nerves. But you know,
he starts from being this sadistic torturer to then like, oh,
(31:14):
I've got to do something. My life might be at stake.
Let's turn around and betray the French and go on
and be friends with these guys. So granted, the French
and the Italians did have of course, so we're working
together in inverted commas when it came to Napoleon and
what have you, because Napoleon did actually speak Italian and
not French when learnt French later down the line, which
(31:38):
is a common mistake people make when they give him
the strong French accent when they are when whoever's playing him,
he actually would have had a stronger Italian accent. But
that's neither here nor there. But yes, Milkaudio was very
much our I guess, our comedic relief for lack of
a better term. And even though he seemed to be
enjoying himself so much when he's torturing people, he just
turns a new leaf and I guess, no more torture.
(31:59):
I won't be a guy anymore. I'm just gonna hang
out with the brothers and have a good time. Which
was a bit of a weird tone shift and change,
but it's Peter. I guess we can forgive him, So
I guess. Then let's round off our characters with our villain.
We have the aforementioned Monica Bellucci as the Mirror Queen.
Woo so a Keith starting with you, what did you
(32:22):
make of our villain? Ah?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Wooh, no, be afraid Rapunzel. Okay, and I don't mean
in the mean way. She just was not in the
movie very long. And then we do finally get to
see the Big Bad. I will say the makeup they
kicked on her was impressive. All those prosthetics, the nails,
the hair. It was very entertaining to watch. But at
(32:47):
the same time, it was just very anti climactic. As
you and I have said on numerous occasions, they had
the five minute rule kick in. They realized, Hey, we're
getting to the end of the movie. We have to
use the Big Bad, and we have to destroy the
Big Bad and everybody has to live happily ever after,
And you're like, okay, go and they basically kind of
(33:07):
just speed run that whole thing. I do appreciate again
all the stories, the Rapunzel, the princess and the pee,
all the crazy, the magic mirror, all those references were
very entertaining to watch and to catch. Especially now that
I've known the story, I can kind of pay attention
to everything else going on in the room and around,
you know, especially with the the wolfman and a lot
(33:30):
of shenanigans as well. It's just again, they could have
put anybody in that makeup and it would have been fine,
because they didn't really utilize her too much other than
a couple of flashback scenes that five minutes and then
she's dead and you're like, all right, cool, so that happened,
and we're all just gonna go home and live happily
ever after the end, and you're like, all right, so
(33:53):
it was. It could have been anybody. It's unfortunate, and
I like her as an actress. She does something, she
has had some interesting parts, and I'm not opposed to,
you know, anything that she does or she you did
a horrible job. It's just again like you're just like,
all right, cool, and here she is and then we're done, Okay, bye,
thanks for coming, peace out. You're like, well, whatever, so
(34:14):
it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
We will be serving sandwiches and drinks of the wrap
up potzy, I guess exactly, and heather your thoughts. So
now villain, I love her.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Also, like I hate the way that let's just you
have a sleepy hollow worst that's kind of like cover
a chick in webs. You've got the creepy weird that
the kids are turning too, the mud people slash gingerbread
thing that always just iticked me out. It's the best
like that, just snicky. But I love her because it
(34:54):
is a classic big bad of a fairy tale. But
she's got like a courtyard past, and you know, when
you look into the character development of it, it works.
But she's kind of little Craig Ray. But not only
do you have like her wearabole of henchman ex huntsman dude,
But technically we think about it, she's like Lady Bathory
(35:16):
and she's technically a vampire if we think about it.
So they really hate to agree with Keith here, Dear Diary.
On September the July seventh, the seven twelve, I agreed
with Keith. Okay again, what's happening here? Nick? Is just
gonna sit here and watch this happen and unfold. But
(35:39):
she's just she's a great, big bad They did kind
of throw everything at it at the end and just
like wrap it up in a pretty little picture. Everything
just worked. There wasn't really any anything that's really going
to contest that what's going to happen. Oh, look the
girls come back. It's a happily ever after. I get it.
(36:00):
Whatever brother's grim, but also like, look at any brothers
Graham actual story and bad stuff happened to all the people.
That's all I wanted. And then to send them off
on their horses essentially onto their next chapter. They're like,
we're done because of this one crazy thing that happened
in all of our years of doing this. I think
that she was a great little add on. I loved
(36:24):
the cast and pieces. That's one of my cosplayer goals.
So there you go, shocking.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I would well looking forward to seeing seeing that said
cosplay because once again, I think some of the best
things of this movie were the costumes and the effects,
both special and practical. Because I agree when it comes
to the makeup is caked onto Monica when she's playing
like sort of the older version was Zombifide version of
(36:51):
The Mirror Queen. It was great, and it's not easy.
I mean, I haven't done it, but I'm assuming, honest,
it's not easy to act under all those prosthetics and
buy large. She did that. This was also a period
where Monica was getting type cast because of the fact
that you know, she's an incredibly attractive, good looking woman
and so on, and she always plays multiple movies, multiple movies,
(37:12):
plays a very sultry temptress with this very sort of
husky voice and such, and that's it's not necessarily a
bad thing, because there's a place for everybody in the
acting world. If that's what you're good at playing sultry temptress,
by all means, do it now do I think she's
an excellent actress. Not necessarily. She's good at what she
does is in playing these kind of roles. But other
(37:37):
than kind of whispering in your ear and doing sort
of all these kind of things, she doesn't really do
much other than that and screen. So I'm like, okay, fine,
but it's perfect to the role. I would say, even
though she kind of shoehorned Dinners the villain at the end,
they could have worked on that a little bit more
because we only know about this tale of whoever lives
in the Tower, and we don't really get to know
(37:58):
more about it. But yes, I agree with you, Heather.
We do learn she has some a tortured past which
may have also brought her to insanity, and that's why
she acts the way she doesn't behave the way she does.
But I would have liked a little bit more, I
really would have thought, which you would have made for
a more compelling villain had had she been more present
in the film, because it's literally this last ten or
(38:19):
fifteen minutes where you really have to deal with this character.
I mean, you do have an earlier moment, but it's
very brief, So I would have liked more of our
main villain rather than having it thrown at us in
the last fifteen minutes. But the mirror effects were gorgeous
or wonderful, especially when we see the queen dying and
all these kind of shards of mirror coming out of her.
(38:40):
That was really really well done. And yeah, I mean Monica,
as I said, we love you, But yeah, other than
screaming and whispering, that's really all she does. And if
you're listening to this, Monica, I do. I am very
proud of what you've done for our country and it
comes to cinema, but I hope they give you other
roles personally. So is there anything else you guys would
(39:01):
like to add on the movie before we get to ratings?
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Can we talk about the huntsman's crazy acts that just
looks completely out of place? The fact that it's just
this shiny silver axe that is supposed to be, you know,
however old it is and handed down generation after generation.
Shouldn't be rusty like the knives and the daggers that
were in the Witch's little bedroom and not look like
they found it at I don't know, pick your hardware
(39:25):
store USA kind of situation because it just looked so
out of place when they're using it's got the silver
handle and the silver n and the silver that and
the blah blah blah. I'm like, all right, it should
be a wood handle, should be slightly rusty. Even if
it's magic, it still should be rusty magic.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
There was a say the best Buy I guess probably
something of that nature. Hey, did you have anything else
you would like to add?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
I would like to see a twenty twenty five version
of this movie.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
A remake would be interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, because I think that we've come so far. I
think that they can fix some of the things, like
the weird ginger bread mad mud girl things that still
gives me nightmares. But I would really like to see that.
It was great for its time. It does have that
cult following, but also like at the talent that's behind it,
(40:19):
we didn't know what that talent was going to look
like twenty years later.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Oh yeah, this is very, very true, especially when it
comes to what some of these actors and actresses would
do in the later down the line their careers. So
I guess. Then getting to ratings, Heather, what do you
give this film out of ten?
Speaker 2 (40:36):
I give it a seven. I give it seven spider eggs.
It's just I really like I loved it. Rewatching it,
I was like, this is so stupid, but like it's
like a guilty pleasure. Plus but what they were doing
at the times, and again the talent that was behind it,
(40:56):
and then I like those twisted fairy tales things like
I'm here for it. But I think that they'll have
much to be desired for sure.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Well said, and I think you bring up an next
appointment it comes to remake, I could possibly go for
that for sure, And uh, Keith, what do you give
this one?
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I'm gonna have to give it a seven as well.
It's not perfect. It's more of a, as Heather says,
a guilty pleasure, and it's fun to rewatch just for
the random fairy tales that they cram in here, because
you could tell this is obviously a bunch of stories
they smash together and just pick apart which ones which
like a Little Red Riding Hood and all the other
(41:34):
crazy Shnanians. I was waiting for seven Dwarves to pop up,
and I was like, all right, where's my Bengo card?
So that's seven out of ten.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
I guess I'm gonna have to be the so called
Russian judge on this one. I'm gonna give this a
six and a half out of ten. As the things
I I know, right, I'm gonna six and a.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Half, but I hate giving out a half. I feel
like I gotta give it all or nothing.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
You're braver than I am, Heather. But yeah, it's a
six enough because the things that I liked, I liked,
I really really enjoyed. As we mentioned earlier, the costumes,
the score, the special effects. Fine, the story was a
little bit flip flopped here and there, but yes, I
also agree that the Spotter's Guide to fairy Tales was fun,
(42:17):
kind of saying, oh, you know, kind of like Captain America.
I understand that reference. So that was fun because I'm
also you know, like you guys, big fans of fairy tales, mythology,
you name it. So it was fun to see those
come into the story at some point and obviously how
those might have possibly an influenced Jake when it came
to writing said stories down. So yeah, six and a
half out of ten. Well, I rewatch it. Maybe not
(42:39):
maybe if it's once again, as often sudden this podcast,
it's a Friday night. You order some pizza, some adult
beverages and sit down and watch it. Yeah, you have
a good time. So it's definitely a Friday night kind
of movie. I think it's nothing too intense and nothing
too you your head is gonna explode trying to figure
out the story of a meaning behind said movie. So
if it does its thing, it's palpable and fair, which
(43:02):
is fine. So getting thus to recommendations, Keith, did you
have anything you'd like to recommend to the class for
those who in fact enjoyed The Brothers Grim.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
I have a very weird plethora of recommendations, and it's
all because of just weird things that made me think
of So the whole scamming angle that is not Scooby
Doo made me think of Ghostbusters actually, just because in
the first two Ghostbusters there's always a bit of a
scam going on or they're running some sort of angle.
Even if it's you know, meant well, it's still the Ghostbuster,
(43:35):
so you know, some shenanigans is afoot. So both Ghostbusters
for me, weirdly enough, an animated movie called Tangled. If
you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. If
you haven't seen it, you should go see it because
it kind of gives me those vibes. And then Hoodwinked,
which is another horrifically terrible animated cartoon, but the story
(43:58):
is very funny.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Well, those are great, great recommendations for sure. And head,
do you have anything you'd like to recommend?
Speaker 2 (44:06):
Yeah, once upon a time the TV series that was out,
I think it was to Reefine, it's not garbage. I
love that he goes on mute immediately. Actually, when I
rewatch this movie.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
To do the podcast, it's garbage. It's green screen garbage.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Are you done? You had your chance to talk. It's
turn to talk now, but back on mean, I like
you better that way. Your head is awfully shiny today,
by the way, but I can see some of the
hair regross. I'm very impressed. Anyways, Once upon a Time,
because it's a twisted fairy tale, it's interesting to see
how they throw different characters shown. Plus hello, young Sebastian
stand as a mad hatter. Come on, yeah, I would
(44:48):
recommend that you hold LinkedIn all but other crap. We'll
watch Once upon a Time. Give a series a shot
if you haven't seen it, or give it a rewatch
now that you're twenty years older, and uh, you know,
see what you can find, what kind of little digs
they put into traditional fairy tales. Or read Greg Gray
McGuire books. Because Greg Gray McGuire wrote Wicked Confessions of
(45:11):
an Ugly Stepsister. He wrote the traditional villain side stories
for deeper understanding, and it's really incredible to watch and
read and watch Wicked if you want to go that
way too.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Well, as always brings some excellent recommendations as well. I'm
going to be mister Lazybones through this week as I'm
going to be recommend the same thing I recommended last week,
which is speaking of TV shows, the TV show Grim,
which I thoroughly enjoyed and I'm planning at some point
to do a rewatch of that. They keep having these
rumors that a new season will be coming out. Sadly,
we haven't heard anything new, but they keep teasing it,
(45:46):
at least the fans on various social media keep saying, oh,
there's a new series coming out. Nothing yet, Hopefully it
will come back, as I thoroughly enjoyed Grim as well
in the vein of something like Once upon a Time.
So that's my recommendation for the week. So of course,
dear listeners, if you want to share your thoughts on
the films we discuss here, you can should an email
to Happiness and Darkness How at gmail dot com. Once again,
(46:09):
Happiness and Darkness How at gmail dot com. You can
of course follow us on our social media. You can
find us on Facebook where it combines us Happiness and
Darkness or also on x at High Darkness Pod. Of course,
thank you very much if you're following us already, and
if you are, of course listening to us on such
podcasts that are and such chat out and such streaming
platforms as Spotify or app podcasts, be sure to rate
(46:31):
and review us. That keeps the algorithm stimulated and allows
our little podcast to reach more like minded ears like yours.
So big thank you those who have done so. A
future thank you to those who will so heather when
you're not here gracing us with your presence discussing such
films as The Brothers Grim, Where can folks find you
on the ever vast interwebs Well.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
In about thirty seven minutes, I'll be hosted by own podcast,
The Broadway fin Club on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, and send
the Kid Spotify, where we talk about all things theater related.
Do reviews have special guests that are producers, performers. Tonight
we have Brenda McLaughlin who is a theater influencer. So
(47:14):
it's always a good time. It's like sitting around and
hanging out with your friends. Fairious and more to the show,
but no Keith, but it's a really great time and
us Yeah you should. I would love to hear what
your thoughts are on theater if you want to find us,
very much thanks at the Bwave Fan Club, or you
(47:34):
can go on Facebook, or you can go to our
website www dot the Broadwayfanclub dot com. But I'll take
you to all one hundred and three fan groups that
we currently operate for different Broadway and off Broadway groups.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Very nice, indeed, And yes, I know that Keith is
a w A theater go a big fan of Rent.
If I'm not mistaken, I am exactly. I remember he's
sharing his love for Rent, so I'm like, you know,
he picks the good ones, so so good. Good to
know that. In fact, I remember that.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
Yeah's a classic.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
We can it's a classic, but yeah, we won't go
into it.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
It's a product of its time. As we said everything
in that eraror, it's a product of its.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Time, very much, so very much so when it when
it comes to myself, folks, you can find it my
day job hosting the radio show Whiskey and Cigarettes, where
we play the very best and nothing but the best
of country music for you guys from Malabama to Zach Brown.
More information about that and where, of course tune in
you come is our website, which is Whiskey and Cigarettes
show dot Com podcasting wise, you can also find myself
(48:39):
and do this two lovely ladies, Zan Sprouse and of
course Rachel Friend on gold Standard the Oscars Podcast, where
we have reviewed all the movies the best Picture Wing
movies in chronological order and are now reviewing moves that
we have picked, and we also have returning a new
co hosts bring their favorite movies to the gold Standard
Theater coming up next as of next week. As of
(49:01):
this recording, Nieka YouTube content creator is going to be
joining us with her pick and that movie will be
into State sixty, which I had never seen before and
I'm kind of glad and spoilers, I'm kind of glad
I did. And last but seting not least myself and
Charles Skaggs can be found on the fandom Zone. We
will returning to review these second season of Za Sandman
(49:21):
as of next Saturday, and the Mister Bliss when You're
not here discussing Brothers, Grim and other superhero related movies
heroic or not superheroic.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
We folks find you mowing my lawn because it's a
jungle right now because we had all this rain down
here in North Carolina. But what I'm not doing that
you can find me on the gold Standard. I've popped
up on your podcast once. I'll probably do it again
at some point just to torture you guys. Let's see,
the Hour of Comics is upon us. I've showed up
on there this year, Star Trek the Undiscovered Podcast, and
(49:53):
I know of another one, but I'm drawing a blind.
But when you can't find me at any of those places,
you can always hit me up on our Facebook page
chat comment like, whatever the case may be, I'm always
around to talk about anything combooks, cartoons, anime, manga, you
pick it.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Great stuff. And yes, Sir Keith is very knowledgeable on
multiple things, and I can attest to this. I say
this pretty much almost every week. But the man is
a wealth of knowledge and has often schooled me on
many properties that I don't have much knowledge of and
give me the crib notes. So I guess I don't
have to watch him. He's like, this is what happens?
Is IM like, thank you, now I don't have to
watch him. I was like, that's that's like one hundred
(50:29):
million hours of my time that I won't have to
worry about using anytime soon, because Keith gave me this
summer which was fantastic. Speaking of new watches, when it
comes to this show, next time, we will be taking
on a movie from this year believe it's not twenty
twenty five, and that will be the James Gunn directed
film Superman, so back into the superhero stuff proper, and
(50:53):
a certain Charles Skaggs should be joining us for that one,
making his return. That's gonna be our three hundred episode.
And i'd just like to I'm folks that the very
first episode we have did of Happiness in Darkness was
myself and Charles and we did review Superman the movie
from way back when. So it's kind of a nice
coming full circle and I'm sure we'll have a lot
of things to say about that, Charles of course being
(51:13):
a huge, huge Superman fan. So first off, Heather, thank
you so much for joining us. You always make the
conversation incredibly lively and entertaining and bring some great insights.
Look forward to having you back sooner rather than later.
And of course all the best for you your podcast
this evening, and hope you guys have a ball.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Thank you, we will. We've got a lot to talk about.
And I'm gonna go gargle some saltwater some there. Now
they're not with some fun out of steam. But thanks
always for having me. It was a pleasure to talk
to you and Keith. I know, shocking, but always a
lot of fun. Can't wait for next time.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
We definitely forward to having you back for sure, and
the Keith. And obviously neither you nor I have seen
this movie yet. So what are you expecting from this
Superman movie? Are you optimistic? Are you pessimistic?
Speaker 3 (52:00):
Feel very sorry interrupt Nick. Yeah, now I have very
mid expectations for this movie. I was not a fan
of the last Guardian of the Galaxy movie or the
one before that, so we're just kind of upsetting the tone.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
MM. Well, hopefully you will be pleasantly surprised. I guess
we'll see what James Gunn does with the DC. We've
seen what he did with the MCU. So of course, folks,
thanks to always this issue in supporting us. We will
see you next time with Superman. Until then, thank you
so much for the privilege real time, stay super Shout Mommy,
(53:00):
Think
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!