Ep 251: Interview w/Chad Ferrin, Co-Writer/Director of “Ed Kemper”

The story behind the murdering spree of Ed Kemper, nicknamed the “Co-ed Killer” in the 1970s, is the subject of a new true crime thriller co-written and directed by Chad Ferrin. Tune in to hear all about the making of “Ed Kemper” and how Chad goes about adapting true crime for the screen, his very inspiring attitude toward filmmaking, and a sneak peek at his next two films based on serial killers, Dorothea Puente and the Night Stalker (Richard Ramirez).

WARNING: Depictions of real-life sexual violence, in reference to the film, are discussed in this interview.

“Ed Kemper” is currently playing at select theaters and is available to rent or buy on Amazon Prime Video at https://www.amazon.com/Ed-Kemper-Chad-Ferrin/dp/B0F1XG7TKL/ along with many other digital platforms. 

For more info on this film, please visit http://www.epic-pictures.com/film/ed-kemper

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, Welcome to Happy Hort Time. My name is Tim Murdoch.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And my name is Matt Emmert. Now today's special guest
has written, directed, and produced a variety of horror films
over the last twenty five years, from slasher flicks to
films based on the writings of HP Lovecraft to even
true crime thrillers. His latest movie, based on serial killer
Ed Kemper, was just released in select theaters and on

(00:34):
vod earlier this month. And when it comes to true crime,
this is just the beginning for him, as he's got
two more films based on serial killers in the works.
Please welcome to the podcast. The co writer, producer, and
director of Ed Kemper Chad Farren. How's it going great?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yeah, thanks for paring on the show. And first of
congrats on the release of this film. Yeah, we got
a chance to see it and we really enjoyed it.
You know, we always ask people we take it back
to the very beginning, and I did hear you mention
on a podcast that you grew up on a farm
in Minnesota, So I gotta know what was that like,

(01:15):
and like, how or when did you first become interested
in making movies.

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Oh it was amazing, really, I mean, the love of
my love of nature, animals, isolation, it all kind of
combined to falling in love with cinema because you were
in this kind of boring to say the least, you know,
in the middle of nowhere, and I just you know,
my parents got a Beta Max when I was a kid,

(01:41):
and I was able to watch and rent whatever I wanted,
and you know, while they were working, I'd be you know,
glued to the TV, watching four or five movies a day,
or Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents Outer Limits, all these
great shows. Just you know, that was my babysitter, and
it was just something that I immersed myself in, just
to who as a form of escapism, I guess, and

(02:02):
because you know, the brutal winters of Minnesota and just
the being kind of a loner I was, you know,
just kind of found a friend in cinema. And it
was one of those things where you I wanted it
first to become a police officer because I was so
in love with film noir and crime and all these things,
But in reality, it was cinema. You know, a field

(02:25):
of you know, working in film that I wanted to do,
and when I discovered that at like sixteen, it was
kind of narrowing that down and trying to write scripts
and you know, working at a movie theater, video store,
all these different you know, things that were film related
that I just you know, I knew what I wanted
to do. And my a babysitter I had when I

(02:45):
was very little named Laurie. Laurie Laurie Bell was her name,
and she married a producer out in Hollywood named Mike Lahey.
And you know, I told my mother when I was
twenty years old, I'm like, you know what I'm I
gotta make movies.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Let me see what I can do.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
She called up Laurie's brother, who was a car dealer,
and he's like, hey, let me call Laurie. Let's see
if Mike's got anything for Chad. And they're like, hey,
we're doing the Prophecy with you know, Christopher walk and
if he wants to come out and be a production assistant,
ho and he's welcome to. So I loaded up my car,
drove out there and I've been here ever since.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
You know, my gosh, I actually I.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Saw the Prophecy when it came I was working at
a movie theater when the Prophecy came out, So I
saw that movie.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I wouldn't be funny if you're like, I was
a productions.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Why did you talk to me?

Speaker 3 (03:34):
That was your Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:35):
But that's that's such a cool story that you have,
like a connections. I feel like, are every shing?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh my god?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
And Greg, was you mentioned the Twilight Zone? But was
there a film that really had an impact on you?

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Oh, horror film specifically, because we always yeah, well.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I you know, I consider it a horror film. Quest
for Fire.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
My father took me to that, and you know, the nudity,
the blood, the violence, I mean it just you know,
you know, I was like five years old. It's hitting
me like a mac truck. And it was just one
of those things where the visuals and the violence and
the nudity were just so in your face that I
was kind of like, Okay, this is this is what
I like.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
You've never had anyone say that filmore.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, you know, we asked that. It's like we have
like certain questions we ask all of our guests, and
usually it's if horror movies even factored into their youth,
Like yeah, and but we figured with you we could
just tell horror movies were a part of your youth,
but like which made the biggest impact. And we've heard
the exor system million times, No One, Jaws would be
number two? And what else do we hear a lot?

(04:33):
Psycho sometimes yeah, yeah, you know the big ones.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Sobby, sure, sure, sure, thank you.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
For the unique answer.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Well, it's one of those things.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
And I think that's the great thing about a movie theater,
and especially a movie theater experience in the seventies or
eighties or whatever. It was just so you know, they'd
let anybody in and you'd be in there alone with
your dad in an afternoon show, and it's just you're
you're seeing all this stuff that you've never seen before,
the nudity, the blood, the guts, and you're just like, wow,
this is this is a amazing and it's just an

(05:02):
it was the right age, the right time, the right
It just stuck in my head. So it's still vibrant
to this day, you know, fifty odd years later, you know,
fifty years later almost, So it's it's amazing that that
experience and that thing is something that I've strived to
give someone else in the audience all these years, and
you hope that you can make an impact, whether it's

(05:23):
a scene or a shot or whatever it is, or
an entire movie that sticks with people and makes them
you know, it makes an impact.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah. No, that's a great answer, because we constantly talk
about the horror films that shaped our opinion of the
entire genre that we saw as kids, and that's when
it does and they do stick with you. It's like
we revisit films that we saw when we were young
and sometimes as adults were like, why did we like that?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
So yeah, still sometimes when you revisit a film as
an adult, you're like that it's first off, it's slow,
not that great, horribly acted, but you know what, I
still love it.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Healed in some way anyway. One of the things I
read about you, we did some research on you, is
that when you first kind of broke into the industry,
you were working as a production assistant, and I saw
that you worked on films like Halloween, The Curse of
Michael Myers, and hell Raiser Bloodlines. So look, I'm big
surprise from my shirt. I'm a huge, huge Halloween series fan,
and I know specifically the Curse of Michael Myers. There

(06:22):
was a lot of chaos going on with that film
because like they resulted in rewrites and reshoots, so node, Yeah,
So I just wanted to ask, like, what was that
experience like and how close were you to all of
that chaos or did you see it going on or
what was that like?

Speaker 4 (06:35):
Well, that's the interesting thing. You know, it was already
shot and done. And the company Neo Motion Pictures that
I worked for that Mike was the producer at They
basically worked in touch with Mirrimax and Weinstein and you know, Dimension,
and they.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Were hired brought on and I was brought on for
the reshoot scenes.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
And it was like four days here in La that
they did pick up shots and different you know, inserts
of murders and you know, different things that Joe Chappelle
directed for these pickup shots. Same thing with The hell Raiser,
So it was basically for pickup scenes. So I didn't
get to see the chaos of on set and the
drama of that. It was more of just a finely
tuned watching Gary Tonacliffe doing the makeup and all picking

(07:15):
up you know, Doug Bradley or you know, whatever it
might be from the airport things like that.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
Was it was an amazing experience.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
For a twenty two year old kid, just you know,
working with you know Pinhead or you know, on the
set of you know where Michael Myers is going to
be just for the few days that it was and
it was just you know, amazing and something that it's just,
you know, you don't appreciate it when you're that at
the time and it's just an exciting thing. But looking
back and it's like, oh man, every horror fan should

(07:45):
experience something like this.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
It was.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
It was phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
So you did four days on Halloween? How how many
days did you do on Hell Raiser? It was the same.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
It was like, you know, they did just they had
four days schedule to pick up shots here in LA
and it was either at a a stage or you
know whatever, the back yard of whatever they needed to
grab these insert shots that were missing from the actual shoot.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, that makes sense. And then I heard that your
very first feature film, Unspeakable, was in the can Film Festival,
which is pretty amazing, Like, how how did that end
up happening?

Speaker 4 (08:23):
Well, it was you know, you know, Trouma picked it
up and they did some of the they paid for
the cost to finish post production, the sound mix and
all that stuff. And then they were like, well, let's
take it to Can. We're going to sell it. And
They're like, do you want to come with and I'm like,
of course, you know, so they flew me out to
Can put me up. I was, you know, I fell
in love with this beautiful French girl. It was really
you know, I ended up staying an extra month. I

(08:44):
just kept extending my ticket for the return because I
was having such an amazing time. And you know, I thought,
you know, if this is what making movies is about,
this is this is amazing, and it's It's never been
that great since. But that was an experience of a
lifetime and something that it was really phenomenal. And you know,
the ups and downs and I've had with trauma, that
was one thing that, you know, a life experience that

(09:07):
is worth more than any money could ever be or
any it was.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
It was phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
And for the past decade, you've had a film come
up every single year. How are you able to do that?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
You know, it's part of its luck.

Speaker 4 (09:21):
Part of it is, you know, I hate to save
and talent has really anything to do with this business,
it's really more tenacity is more important. And if you
you love what you're doing and you just stick your
nose to the grindstone and keep doing it. There's certain
people you'll meet along the way that kind of feel
that same way, and they'll throw you a few bucks
or they'll you know, have a script or they'll have

(09:44):
you know, a location or something that can work, you know,
with the limited budget that you might have, or you know,
it just is I've been lucky that it kind of
fell into place for each thing. Someone will, you know,
on the on the deep Ones, the first love Craft
film I did. It all started with you know, one
of the investors had to beat So the minute she
said beach and Ocean, I started thinking of Lovecraft and

(10:04):
it clicked and the script came out and we went
and shot, you know, things that you know, you kind
of right around. You got whether it's a location or
a certain amount of money or whatever it is, Okay,
we got fifty grand, Okay, let's do one location, let's
do this, let's do that, you know, and it just
kind of I've been just open minded to whatever the
situation might arise, whether if it's a ten thousand dollars

(10:26):
movie or a two hundred thousand dollars movie. I'm open
to making that work and having fun doing it, and hopefully,
you know, the people I hire and the cast and
the crew also have that same gung ho, no giving
a shit attitude, and they you know, they roll with it.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
We all have a good time.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
But that's such a great answer, though, Like when you
think about it, it's like, obviously, the people who are
the most passionate about making films, whether it's horr or whatever,
and people who were just go ahead and do whatever
they can with whatever they've got, like, those are the
people that are going to get the films done. And
that's it feels like it's very inspiring to hear you
say that. I'm sure that a lot of like first

(11:01):
time filmmakers are people that don't work with huge studios.
That that is really inspiring, because I mean, it's almost
like manifesting what you want to happen. It's like, you know,
I want to do this, I'm going to make sure
it happens. I don't care how much money I have
or what location, but I'm going to figure out something
that can work with what I have. So that's really
cool to hear.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
You, because I think a lot of you know, especially
first time filmmakers whatever, they think they're making the greatest
film ever made. And you know, I lost that thoughts.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
During the prophets.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
The fact that the fact that you get it done
and you get it out there is you know, to me,
whether it makes a dime or whether it you know,
gets all these awards, you got it done, you got
it out there, and you move on to the next one.
The negativity or the positivity of previous film does not
affect me in the least because I'm onto three other films,

(11:54):
whether it's mentally or physically. I'm just keep going and
I don't let the the bad reviews or the good reviews,
or the festival rejections or the acceptance affect me in
any way, shape or form, because I've moved on to
something else. So you're you're shielded from any negativity. But
you know, it's a double edged sword because the positivity

(12:16):
also just kind of rolls off your back at that point,
you know, because you're just like, I'm onto something else.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
But like a great attitude.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I was just gonna say, I wish I had that
attitude when it came to life. You know what I mean.
It's like, hey, well, I mean, but I see what
you're saying. It is a double edged sword because it's
like you don't want to ignore the compliments and you
do want to celebrate the wins, but it's definitely healthy
to ignore the negativity, especially in today's age where everybody
with a kiss.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
That I would do, I would have a hit and
then sit around for two years.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
And just hang out. Yeah. I would have extended that
trip in France that you had for three years. Yeah,
I'll be there.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
You know. So we saw that you directed a horror
comedy in twenty nineteen called Exorcism of at sixty thousand Feet,
which starred a bunch of big names in horror like
Adrian Barbo, Lance Hendricks and Bill Mosley, Kelly Maroney. What
was it like directing all of these horror greats.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Oh, it was great.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
It was one of those you know, once in a
lifetime kind of opportunities. And Robert Ryan, he you know,
it was his baby and his dream and I had
worked with him on a film called Paris Sites and
we had a good connection and he's like hired me
to direct it. And it was he you know, I
was involved with the casting and he'd say, hey, what
about this person.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
I'm like, oh, of course, and Lance Henrickson, come on,
let's do it. So, you know, it was just.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
A joy from every moment to you know, in post
to finishing, and everything was just fun about it.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
There was nothing negative. It was really amazing and.

Speaker 4 (13:40):
Working with people that you admire, whether it's Bill Mosley
or Adrian Barbo, it was just amazing.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
You know.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
You're You're like, this is the top of the heap,
you know, for me, and that's the whole thing of
you know, my limit, my dream of you know, becoming
Stanley Kubrick, you know, fifty years or twenty years ago,
dissipated long ago, and I accepted what comes to me
and and treat each thing and everything project, whether it's

(14:08):
Exorcism or whatever, as though it were a billion dollar production.
And everyone is you know, worth all the money in
the world, and you just give them the respect that
they deserve and that you have a good.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Time doing it, and they.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
In turn kind of give you that same you know,
respect and love back, and you make something that everyone
is you know, one hundred percent about.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'm telling you need to do a self help book
or something else. These these are just really good.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
No, Because I look, I was a very negative person
when things were going shitty, and like I said, you
didn't become Stanley Kuprick or didn't make you know Citizen Kane.
You know, they're your expectations of your own talent and
whatever those things are. Once I let that stuff go
and just said, you know what, I like the Roger
Korman model. You make these things fast, you make them cheap,

(14:52):
make them as good as you can with the best
people that you can, and you just give it one
hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Let it go and get it out there and see
what happens. Don't let the negativity that.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
Might come from it, or even the positivity infect you
in any way, because you're down to make something even
better because you learned from the mistakes on the previous.
And don't get a big head or a big ego
about this. Because you know, I've been in I've been
at sun Dance, I've been to cam I've been to
all these places with great movies playing. But you know
it's all the same thing. Every studio or every distributor,

(15:23):
or even the audience is just looking for the next movie.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
The next thing.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
You know, a year later you're forgotten about or you're
remembered about, like the Exorcist or whatever it is, because
there are masterpieces. But for me, it's just about, you know,
maybe fifty years from now, one of these films will
be you know, in the same regard as the ecstasy.
You never know, you know, you hope to, you know,
achieve that, but I don't pin my hopes in my
dreams or you know, my depression or anxiety.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
And that's such a good attitude because they I've heard
people always say, like, you know, the director or who's
ever at the top of the call sheet sets the
tone for everyone else. So if you a nice atmosphere,
everyone wins.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's totally true. We're big slasher fans,
big surprise because I told you about Halloween, and so
we really enjoyed your twenty twenty one film Night Caller,
because well, first it had a really scary killer and
also you really set up a great like final girl
slash heroine in Susan Priver. Is it Privor or Priver?

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Privor's good private Okay, Susan.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Priver's Psyche I'll take everything of Clementine. We love turn
and now I saw that you made a sequel to
Night Caller in twenty twenty three called Scalper. So my
question is do you think there will be any additional
installment centered around Clementine, Like, do you envision this being
a full series?

Speaker 3 (16:40):
Well, I think I would love to.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
It's it's kind of one of those things if you know,
if a movie does well or whatever, and that those
unfortunately those two haven't done well. Oh so you know,
it's it's getting the word out there. And you know,
for me, it was, you know, making a modern day
American Giallow mixed with a little you know, when a
stranger calls and you know, a certain thing that you
know influenced me from the eighties and Slashers and Luccio

(17:03):
Foolci and all these kind of things meshed into this
neo noir kind of look of Night Caller. And we
had so much fun on that, and it was kind
of like the sequel was ready to go because Susan
Priever had such a good time on it. She was like,
I would love to redo this character. And it was
still kind of well, we're not sure how night Color
is doing. But the money's there, let's go make it.

(17:24):
So we cranked out a sequel and it was great,
a great time, and I think a great movie. But
it's just one of those things that still yet to
catch on. You know that people have not been jumping
swarming to it. But if they started swarming to it
now and to warrant a third one, then I would
love to get into it.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, that's surprising because it's like, you know, as people
who love like eighties slashers especially, it's like the key
components to a success for a great eighty slasher is
a great scary killer, usually a mass killer, and a
really identifiable final girl type character that you really feel
for and you root for. And you had both in this,
so sur but who knows, you know, sometimes it takes

(18:02):
time for certain things to catch on. So we'll see,
you know, give it some time. You'll be twenty movies
ahead by that time. But like, yeah, but then, but
that's the other thing.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
You know, you don't I used to blame you know.
It's a distributor's fault. They messed up, that's what the
or no, it's it's my fault.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
I've fucked up.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
It's a piece of shit, you know, But in reality
it's it's you know, who knows it's it's the timing,
it's the whatever for a film that clips, clicks with
an audience and then word of mouth or whatever. Because
you know, it used to be they'd throw you know,
a movie in a drive in for a week and
it'd make billions of dollars, just you know, the worst,
you know movie that you can imagine, but it had
whatever and the timing and the it's just a different

(18:41):
kind of era and finding that niche, whether it's in
streaming mixed with you know, limited theatrical and finding just
that that lightning in a bottle that makes it take off.
And you know, you hope the best for each film,
but you know, sometimes it doesn't not hit that way.
And I try to tell that to every investor, you know,
just you got to make this for the love of

(19:02):
it and not you know, hoping that you're going to
become a millionaire.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
It's also must be so tough with just the oversaturation
of films nowadays and streaming, like you know, between all
of the different apps and channels and all of them
making their own content, Like.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Oh my gosh, like I feel bad for studios right
now because they don't know what will hit well, there's
no guarantees anymore, and especially they're competing with someone who,
like myself, I'm guilty. You can watch like five hundred
videos on TikTok and be equally as entertained as watching
a movie.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
That's your reason that it wasn't successful. Tim Murdoch watching tiktoks.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Instead of talk I'm the exception.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
You know, we.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Noticed that Ed Kemper was not your first time doing
true crime, because you made the twenty twenty two film
Pig Killer that was inspired by serial killer Robert Willie Picton.
So my question for you, what is it about adapting
true crime stories that appeals to you?

Speaker 3 (19:59):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (20:00):
Me, the thing that I love the most about it
is getting into a different era. You know, whether on
Pig Killer it.

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Was you know, the eighties into the nineties.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
It was a fun time just getting the wardrobe, the cars,
the you know, all those things that you know, you
know that I loved seeing when I lived through it.
So getting in doing Ed Kemper was great because it
was going into the seventies and you know, even the
early sixties for his you know, when he was fifteen
and just getting the little bits and pieces. We had
an amazing wardrobe department that got you know, vintage clothing

(20:30):
all the way through for everyone. So when those actors
would put it on and they'd come in and you're
feeling the polyester shirt or the bell bottom jeans, you're
just like, oh, this is amazing, you know, and you
sit him in you know, a nineteen seventy car and
it's like, wow, this is I feel like it's you know,
the correct period, and you know, everything just feels like
a whole different. It feels like you're in and you've

(20:52):
been transported back in time. So to me, that was
the most fun and trying to pull that off and
get that right for you know, a nickel budget and
shooting in ten days. So it's just it's a fun
thing to take your limitations and turn them into a
positive or make a film that's, you know, on one
hundred thousand dollars budget, looked like it's a million dollars.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
Is always the reward for me.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
And do you prefer doing true crime or fictional horror films?

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Right now?

Speaker 4 (21:20):
True crime, because I think it just has like I
was saying with Night Call and that really kind of
put me off on the whole thing because you know,
whereas true crime, Pig Killer did really well, and you know,
so it was that kind of you know, kicked me
in the butt. And then the timing with a producer
friend of mine, Mike Muscal, who had, you know, worked
on Reanimator and he had produced you know, a slew

(21:42):
of true crime films from Ted Bundy, Hillside Strangler, ed
Geen with the writer Steven Johnson. He said he saw
on Facebook the Pig Killer was getting all these rave
reviews and doing all these you know, festivals and got
getting released. And he said, boy, you seem pretty prolific
at these films and whatever. What's your your key to success?
And I'm just like, you know, make them fast, make
them cheap, and you know, have fun doing it. And

(22:03):
he's like, well, you know, look, I've got a script
through crime script here laying around if you would be
interested in reading it, and I said, sure, send it
over and it happened to be Ed Kemper, and I'm
just like I knew of Ed Kemper from a little
I had an encyclopedia of serial killers, you know, growing up,
and it listed every serial killer with a paragraph or

(22:25):
two of what they did and all this stuff. And
I remember ed Kemper with the you know, cutting his
mother's head off and shoving your larynx down the garbage disposal,
seeing the devil in the stove. I mean, certain things
that clicked with me. And I remembered Kemper and his story,
so I immediately started reading it.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
It was good.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
You know, most scripts people send you can't get five
pages in, but this thing was a page turner. I
got to the end of it and I said, look,
the only problem is, again, we make these films for nothing,
and you you know, the most I can offer you is,
you know, a couple of pennies and you know, we
roll the dice and see how it turns out.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
And he said, we're up for that. Let's do it.
We want to be in business with you.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
So got the script, did a pass on the script
to kind of tone it down budget wise, because it had,
you know, it was millions of dollar budget because they
were doing films with Lionsgate at that time, so it
was kind of one of the scripts they were ready
to pull the trigger on but didn't, and so it
kind of fell by the wayside. Thirty years ago now,

(23:23):
and so when I got my hands on it, I
just kind of toned down some of the budget aspects
of it to fit the money we had, and beefed
up the role with Susan Preever and Ed Kemper, the
mother son relationship to kind of go that direction. Having
a you know, a dysfunctional childhood myself, so I was
able to kind of relate to that story because the
best thing about writing of anything is finding something within

(23:48):
yourself in each in a character, to get your wrap
your head around it and kind of no walk you
have the same kind of shoes for a moment, whether
it be you know, Ed Kemper's love of John Wayne
or certain things you can relate to within a character
is always easier for a writer to kind of dive
into it. So once the script was ready, you know,
sent it to Susan. She loved it, and then started

(24:09):
finding an Ed Kemper, and you know, it just kind
of started falling into place based on you know, the
popularity of true crime, because one of the things was
you just tell people look at Damer on Netflix, look
at Menandez Brothers, those are going through the roof that
the highest rated thing.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
And then people are like, oh, these are our valuable here.
How much do you need take it?

Speaker 2 (24:28):
You know? Yeah, So I mean you kind of answered
our next couple questions with that, and I appreciate because
we were going to ask how you got involved, Just
so listeners know, well, first off, I just want to
repeat that Ed Kemper was just released in select theaters
on April fourth and on vod on April eighth, And
for listeners who aren't familiar with Ed Kemper, I'll just

(24:49):
give you a quick little summary of him. Basically, he
first killed his own grandparents when he was fifteen, was
sent to a state hospital for six years, was released
at age twenty one, and then ended up killing eight
people in the early seventies. He was nicknamed the co
ed Killer because many of his victims were college age girls.
I was going to ask, like, what made you choose him,

(25:11):
But it sounds like the kind of script came to
you specifically, it had already been written and you since
you had done Pig Killer, it sounds like that's some
you know, was kind of something that you were looking
into doing true crime. Did you do any other independent
like research of your own on Ed Kemper was kind
of the script already there with all the info you needed.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
No, that was one of the you know, the great things.
You know, he had done most of the heavy lifting.
You know that his facts were one hundred percent because
I researched everything about, re researched everything on the internet,
and read a couple more of the serial killer books.
I have to just kind of refresh myself with the case.
He had the names right, the dates right, the mode
of you know, death correct. You know, every little detail

(25:52):
was in there, and then you know the little a
few things that weren't, like the the fifteen year old
girl that he picks up at the bust, It wasn't
in the script that she, you know, opened the car
door and everything once he locked himself out, so that
that was a factual thing that had happened. That I
reput that in because it was but it's so unbelievable

(26:15):
that she did that, but at the same time, it
was true, so I put that in the script. Things
like the detective, the FBI agent wrestler. At the end,
I took verbatim the dialogue that they had from the
transcript and you know, ripping your head off popping in
your like a grape. You know, all these things that
were actually the dialogue that they said between each other.

(26:36):
I put into the script certain things. I tried to
be as accurate as possible. But you know, there's so
many other things that you know in his life when
you read up about it or watch his interviews, because
he was so forthcoming with you know, not only the
FBI and helping them, you know, catch serial killers, but
he was also very open to the press and people

(26:56):
who wanted to talk about it. And he admitted fully
to his crimes and kind of owned up to it.
And that's you know, one thing that you got to
give a guy respect instead of like a Ted Bundy
who kind of I was a geys nice guy. I didn't,
you know, whereas you know Ed Kemper. You know, he
laid it all out and it's it's one of the
interesting facts about him. Even read audiobooks for the blind
when he was in prison. I mean, he's tried to

(27:17):
become a you know, a positive force in society as
much as he can be.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Again, you know, I, wow, I didn't know that about
I said, there's something I've always wondered when adapting, like
true crime stories into movies and and you know it's
been done a lot, but like, so, do you take
a documented event like you you read about or hear about,
like one of the killer or something, and just kind
of imagine what the dialogue would have been like that

(27:43):
led up to it happening, Or how do you go
about deciding on like what the characters are going to
say since you know what happened, but obviously you don't
know what say do you are you just you know,
guessing or taking based on like hearing other people's accounts.
How does that work?

Speaker 3 (27:58):
I think, well, it's you know, it's it's a little
of both.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
You take, you know, as much as you can that's
out there, whether it's interviews or books that are written about.
I'm working on Richard Darmirez The night Stalker now, and
it's one of those things. The book i'm reading it
has you know, like a thousand hours of interviews with
Richard Darmirez, and you know a lot of the details
are very specific of what happened and the rapes and
the murder and you know all these things, and you

(28:23):
just kind of try to go through that and get
it right. You know, of what you put your mind
in that position of the thing that makes it harder
is that it really happens, so you really, you.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Know, it kind of hits you.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
It's a queasier feeling than just coming up with you know,
some lovecraft monsters or whatever it might be, or you know,
it gets in the back of your head and kind
of makes your hair stand up on end when you
hear the things that he did and the smells they
were there, and you kind of get into this thing
of which is a good point with remembering Quest for

(28:58):
Fire and the feeling that I have in the theater
at a young age, which I can now relate to
feelings that Richard Ramirez had, which now is the one
way I'm trying to connect myself to him, which is
very hard because he's a very fucked up individual, you know,
whereas Ed Kemper was a smart motherfucker with one hundred
and forty IQ. I mean, this guy you could really

(29:19):
hear from, But Richard Ramirez is it's more of this
sato sexual messed up stuff. And you know, he specifically,
one of the major imprints on him was he was
twelve years old and he's over at his cousin's house.
And his cousin was a Green Beret in Vietnam. He
did two tours, you know, twenty nine confirmed, you know,
kills in Vietnam. Was a war hero, I mean big time.

(29:40):
It's like John fucking Rambo is your cousin, and he's
over there visiting him. You know, his eyes are bright.
He loves this guy. I mean, this guy is a hero.
He's just you know, did all this stuff. But his
cousin was also, you know, a sadistic, murderous motherfucker. So
he would take these women out of these you know, villages,
take them out into the jungle, rape them, murder him,
dismember them, take pictures with a polaroid and take and

(30:03):
he took probably forty fifty women that he did this
to with a shoe box full of these pictures, and
he brought them home after the war and he would
regale young twelve year old Richard Ramirez with these war
stories and these rape stories and showing him these pictures
at a young's you know, twelve year old boy who's
you know, kind of discovering his sexuality and all this

(30:25):
stuff and hearing it, and you know, and then at
one of the point Richard's over there playing miniature pool
with him, and you know, they're talking and they're whatever. Richard's like,
it's a hot day in El Paso, Texas, and he's like, hey,
can I get a coke out of the fridge?

Speaker 3 (30:39):
Sure, go ahead. He goes into the refrigerator and there's
a thirty eight revolver in the refrigerator and he's like, Mike,
why is your gun in the fridge?

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Man? Because it's cool out and because it keeps it cool,
I don't know what I'm going to be using it
next on these hot days. So the wife later comes home,
Richard's there playing pool, and she starts nagging at Mike.
Mike go to the kitchen, grabs the gun and he
points it at her head and he says, say one
more thing, fuck you, and she he pulls the trigger,
blows her face off, falls dead on the floor. Richard

(31:09):
witnesses all of this, and you know, and he remembers
specifically the smells of the blood, the sweat, these certain
things just vivid in his mind. And the cousins like, Richard,
you were never here, go on home, don't say a word,
And it's just these things where you're like Okay, you
know the scene quest fifire with my dad and the

(31:29):
blood and the guts remembers and the popcorn spell and
the stuff. So I can now relate to how that
would make such an that makes a minor imprint on me,
but the death of someone right in front of you,
the blood, the gunshot, the smoke made such an impact
on you know, young Richard Ramirez.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
So it's in your research.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Do you ever get nightmares or like like yeah, take, yeah, okay.
I was like, I can't only imagine.

Speaker 4 (31:54):
This specifically has been one of the hardest things I've
ever written, just because it's it's the book, you know,
is very detailed.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
You know, it's.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Uh, it's it's it's very you know, it's very similar
to in Cold Blood by Truman Carapodi, where you know,
they talk to the actual criminals and they get in
their head for a moment and then they write it
out and then you know, when you read it, you
can really visualize it, you can feel it, and that's
you know, one of the hardest things of bringing a
script to screen that is such a deplorable killer that

(32:24):
it's it's very hard because I don't want to do
to the detective angle, because that's been done, so it's
trying to do it from Richard's angle and getting elements
like the the the interaction with his cousin or you know,
the head trauma he add at a young age, or
you know, the molestation, certain things that you can try
to not give sympathy to him, but give a reason

(32:47):
of oh, that could be one of the reasons that
you know, led to this. You know, same thing with
Ed Kemper. Is his mother all at fault? No, you know,
you know, there's there's blame on everyone involved with these situations,
whether it's the parents, whether it's the killer, whether it's
you know, even the victims. In a small, small way,

(33:07):
especially with Ed Kemper, I mean, why the hell did
those girls get in the car with this guy? You know,
I understand it was a different time, but at the
same time, I'm like, you know, it's hard to imagine
you know, someone you know, being six foot nine and
you know, three hundred and fifty pounds.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
I mean, he must have had a silver tongue to
these chicks to hop on end.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
You know.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Hit taking is a fascinating thing.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, I think never, I mean everything you said, like
I've just so many questions arise, like how do you
detach how do you Chad detach yourself from these sadistic
situations that you were constantly researching and writing about like
for these last couple of years, Like do you, like

(33:50):
I mean, do you take frequent breaks of vacation? Like
I mean no, because but seriously, like since you had
now been focused on true crime from Ed Kemper to
Richer Ormer Darthia point, like, how do you detach yoursel
Golden Girl? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, I love Golden Girls.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
G yeah, but what do you do to clear your
mind from this so that it doesn't take its toll
on you?

Speaker 4 (34:10):
I watch a lot of old game shows and a
lot of old cartoons. They've got the MeTV cartoon network
thing that's on, you know, and this is you know,
regular TV. That's one thing I will say with when
digital television and the digital intennas came in, it really
because I'm you know, I'm not a cable guy. I'm
not a streaming guy. I'm an old fashion you know,
three channel dude, you know, with a tube TV. And

(34:32):
when they got the digital TV, so many great channels,
movies channel, you know, and you know me TV, all
these certain things, the game show, Buzzer Channel, you know,
all these things that came out that you're like, oh, man,
I can watch you know, a match game all day
long from nineteen seventy eight. I mean, so I'm able
to kind of get out of, you know, this darkness
and kind of go It's like, boy, people were cool

(34:53):
in nineteen seventy eight and the great clothing and they're
smoking and they're whatever. So you're I'm kind of able
to step away from from it. But it does get
you know, I've never the Richard Ramirez one is the
hardest one to tackle, for sure. It's just very uh
you know, again, it's dark, and there's really the redeeming quality.

(35:14):
The redeeming thing for me is the period again nineteen
eighty four and eighty five is really exciting to get
that down in Los Angeles. The heat, you know, because
it was during the summer and it was a record
heat wave, and you know, little moments like the Ray
Bradbury short story. I can't remember the name of it where,
but I just remembered, you know, violence happens over ninety

(35:35):
two degrees. That was one thing that I remembered from
his short story and interweaving that into the film because
it was all like ninety four ninety five degree temperatures
that he's killing these people in.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
So, you know, the.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
Little things that kind of bring me a connection outside
of the true element but within, you know, whether it's
cinema in Ed kemper of putting, you know, an old
commercial or an old movie or that John Wayne. It's
certain things that kind of bring a lightness for it
to me in there that connects it to cinematically with

(36:07):
the things I love, that kind of takes the darkness
a little shades it off a little bit.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, I mean, no matter what, it's a heavy subject.
So you're gonna like it's a tough balance.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
You know. It's It's funny you mentioned when you mentioned
the night Stalker, probably the only serial killer that I
ever and I've mentioned this on the podcast have any
memory connection to because I grew up when I when
I was four years old in eighty four, my family
was living in Dwarty, California, which is right near where
all the murders took place, and I have vivid memories

(36:38):
of my mom saying we have to keep the outside
light on, and you know, windows and stuff locked because
he doesn't come into houses where like the doors locked
and the light is on or something like that. But
I just remember thinking, keep that light on so the
nightstalker won't come, Like I remember that as a kid.
So it's just crazy when you met, Like anytime I

(37:00):
here the nights talk, I have those memories of because
the only silly serial killer I ever lived near, but
there was an actual threat to everyone in the area.
They just thought, who is he gonna strike next? And
I remember thinking, usually goes for old ladies. So I'm okay, Like,
I mean, it's crazy, but like anyway, it's just you're
giving me weird memories. Back to Ed Kemper, There'll be

(37:21):
one thing I noticed. I'm Ed Kemper, and your film
is played by Brandon Kirk and his abusive mother was
played by Susan Priever. And now both of these stars
have been in multiple movies that you've made, And I
noticed that that's pretty common for you, that you stick
a lot with the same actors. What kind of advantages
do you find from working with the same group of actors.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Well, you know, you know they're gonna show up, they're
gonna know their lines, they're not gonna complain, they're gonna
you know, be and they just it kind of turns
it into a family reunion kind of thing. For each
of these movies, you get with the same crew and
the same cast, and if a new person actor or
actress comes in, you're kind of like, hey, welcome to
the fold. And they turn out and then you use
them again and again because they're not only good, but

(38:01):
they're good people and it's just finding that and the
same kind of you know, attitude is just key for
these you know, low budgets, fast shoots is just finding
people who are you know, game and have a good
time doing it and you know.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Are as thrilled making it as you are.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Because if you get one person who's just like, ugh,
I hate being here whatever, it's just it's it's just
a negativity that just is infectious. So if you get
everyone who's positive about it, and then it just it
makes it everyone everyone its job a lot easier because
they're all kind of just saying, Okay, we got to
get this done and you know, you'll do the best
we can and you know, buck up if it's hot

(38:39):
out or the food stinks or whatever it might be.
And you know, you just put on a smile and
have a good energy. And Susan and Brandon are great,
Robert Miano, all these people that I've worked with, Sylvia Sprass,
people who I've worked with for years and have just
a great rapport with the kind of a shorthand of
a directing style. They know what I want or they

(39:00):
know what I've mean, or I just have to say, nah,
bring it down a little, and they nail it and
one or two takes and you just move on and
move on because it's you know, again shooting these things
very fast and where you have to do you know,
ten to fifteen pages a day, and you want people
who you know aren't going to be a prima donna
or aren't going to complain or aren't going to say, oh,

(39:21):
I'm not showing up tomorrow. You know, that's you know
the hardest thing, especially with Ed kemper Is. You know,
we auditioned like twenty different guys and each time you'd go, well,
you know there's going to be nudity and it might
get very graphic and very violent, and make sure you're
not gonna you know, have a problem with that, and
most of them would kind of him and haw, yeah,

(39:43):
I got I'm fine, It'll be fine. And then you're like, okay,
forget that guy. And so, you know, knowing Brandon working
with him previously, I still had them auditioning, you know,
put on four different you know scenes and put it
on tape and showing it to everyone, and you know,
his performing rose to the top. And I knew, you know,
this guy is you know the guy and uh, I

(40:04):
knew he would have no problem with any of the
scenes and he would be willing to you know, sleep
on the floor of each location or whatever it be,
just to have this opportunity.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
And he was great.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Also starring in your film This Lumber Party, Masacar star
I miss Stevens on her first.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Rink break you bank Stevens. Yeah, Miss Stevens. Yeah, good
old Miss Stevens from the Slumber Party.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
I love her performance in that. How does she get
involved in your projects?

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Oh, she's fantastic.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Joe Castro has you know, been friends and worked with
her for you know, years and years and years, and
he recommended her. You know, I knew of her work
and you know, always was a fan, but you know,
seeing he had a direct contact and I'm like, oh
my god, it makes it so much easier. And uh,
I'm like, send her the scripts, see if she's interested
in the roll of Sally. And she loved the script

(40:56):
and I said, well, I hate to do this. You're
gonna have to put it on tape because some of
the investors, they just want to be fair to everyone
who's you know, auditioning and trying to get the role.
That if she wouldn't mind doing it, and she's like,
of course not, I'd be happy to and that right
there is a great thing, you know, a good sign
of you know, a game player. And she put it
on tape and she blew everyone away. She was fantastic
and you know, amazing actress on not only on set,

(41:19):
but a great personality. And you know, I just worked
with her again on Dorothea and she was again phenomenal.
She's really you know, top notch.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
That's great. And I mean, I know it's like for
us horror nerds, like you get the name and you
remember her from these movies. I know you're just looking
for the best person for the part. But like obviously
you know it comes with some some credibility when you know,
we there's like oh my god, I know Brink Stevens
kind of thing like that. Yeah, okay, So I have
two questions for you about Ed Kemper's mom. I'm not

(41:48):
not the actress who played her, Susan priever, but like,
how how she's portrayed in the in the movie versus
like the real life mom. So was she really as
abusive and horrible as she was portrayed in the film,
Like is that based on real life stuff? Because I
I mean, obviously it's not reason to commit murder, but
like you were saying with Richard Vermirez, like it's not
a coincidence that so many of these Seria killers came

(42:10):
from awful upbringing, right.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
Well, you know that's the thing. And yes, her abuse
is probably even worse. I mean there was especially at
you know, his younger age, but I think once he
was older, it just kind of turned into more of
you know, diminishing his manhood and all these things and
then you know, the child. But yeah, no, she was
abusive from the get go because you know, a lot

(42:34):
of resentment for his father and you know that kind
of you know, laid onto him.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
So she was quite the monster.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
But again, you know, not like you said, it's not
any reason for him to go and kill you know,
eight coins. But it was one of those things where
again bad timing and the bad circumstances and bad you
know whatever, it is just kind of meet in the
middle and they you know, transformed someone into a series
killer or a hitler or whatever it might be.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
You know, you never know.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
I don't think you can definitely point your finger at
one thing specifically that caused it, but you know, and
in his case, the mother was definitely a major part
of his issues. But you know, I think also the
way that she treated the sisters, she treated them very
well and him, so it was kind of this jealousy
and you know she had you know, was worried from

(43:26):
him at a very young age with the cat killing,
that's a factual, and the way he looked at his sisters.
I mean, there were certain things where she was you know,
on edge and nerve, you know, locking him in the
basement to keep him away from them, and that had
just such a hideous effect on him psychologically, and especially
him being such a smart guy. You know that he's
able to overanalyze these things at a young age and

(43:49):
get you know, maybe compulsive about thoughts about it, especially sexually,
and you know turn those into such a horrible thing.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
You know.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
I was shocked that he went back after prison back
to the mom.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
The first thing they say is don't go to your mother.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Okay, I guess. But you also said he was a
very smart guy, so maybe he thought he could manipulate
her or control her. I don't know, I.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
Was just or you know, I think, you know, he
actually really loved her and wanted to see if he
can fix things, you know, or or maybe they'd be
different now, you know.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
I think that's that's a big part of it.

Speaker 4 (44:21):
Our parents, even if they're negative or positive, have such
an effect at at a young a young age that
you you know, even if it's abusive, you want to
have a connection to them because you love them no
matter how awful they are most of the time.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Well, yeah, it's like why do people stay in abusive relationships?
You know, like for when you're on the outside, it's
easy to say, why don't you leave them? But like
it don't even want to jump into it. I know.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
That's that's five.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
That's another pocket. So one other question about it, and
these and.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
These seeds are so implanted at such a young age,
you know, And that's the best way to put it
of whether you know your your hate for her is
so what whatever she you know, maybe she may lock
you in a closet, maybe she took away your game boy,
whatever it might have been that planted a seed of
such rage.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
And then it went away and it got better and
back I got better, And then.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
Thirty years later you're in a room and then it
clicks back to you and you snap and you kill
her whatever it might be. You know, these things, it's
hard to tell. The mind is really such an amazing
thing of what it represses or what it holds or whatever.
You know, when you bring up a thing, the same
thing with the smell, you know. And now I'm just
connecting that so much with the Quest for Fire and

(45:31):
Richard Ramirez that I'm like, I can totally understand how
these things stick in your back of your head or
whatever it would be, and a certain smell or a
certain thing makes it go off, and it's like, oh
my god, I was molested by a priest back in
nineteen seven, you know, and it's like, oh my god,
and you go out and you kill a priest.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
You know, all these things that who knows what triggers. No,
that's things in our head.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
The human mind is something movies will always like, well, well,
we'll always have enough material to make because there's just
so much. I mean, we'll never know what's going on
it here.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
And it's also scary because I always think, like, is
there gonna be some day I wake up and remember
something crazy?

Speaker 1 (46:10):
You know, Like I mean, I would hope up a
like wonderful childhood?

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Kim, what did you do to me? Okay, So we
may be way off on this, Chad, but like I
do have to ask because we both kind of got
a vibe that there may have been something more than
friendship going on between Ed's mother and her friend Sally.
Now we're a way off on that or was that intended?

Speaker 3 (46:34):
No, totally intended.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
It was one of those great things of when I
went through the script and reworked a lot of the scenes.
That was one of the things because I, you know,
watched a lot of Ed Kemper his prison interviews recently,
you know, and just got refreshed with everything. And I
remember a comment that he said was, you know, my
mother and Sally did they seemed more than friends? Because
she was so upset when Sally didn't go on the

(46:58):
trip with her that she went anyway, but she was
just like, you know what, And he remembered saying to her,
why are you so upset? It's she just canceled out
on you, and you know, there was and it dawned
on him it's like, oh, I think there's something something more.
And I think that's another thing of you know, where
she was, you know, repressing her urges, you know, her lesbianism,

(47:19):
you know, because it was it was you know, wrong
to be gay then especially and you were you know, ostracized,
so she had to keep it hidden and whatever. So
that was one of the things that I kind of
felt bad for her, and I could kind of understand
that she, you know, hates whatever Ed Kemper, maybe the
father was, you know, you know her husband, Ed Kemper's father,
you know, sexually, you know, raped her if she didn't

(47:42):
have the you know, there's so many things that you
kind of like think of, like, okay, so she's not
one hundred percent of month, there's I try to get
into her head as well, and having this thing she's
you know, living a whole life that's not her own,
really she wants to be with a woman, She wants
to have these things she doesn't want, you know, these
things she kind of just you know, changed her life,

(48:03):
you know, be married, have a husband, the picket fence
and all these things, and those are repressions of what
she really wants, you know, a love that was forbidden.
I mean, those are certain things I can't know for sure,
but I know that certain things that Ed said in
this interview makes you think the mother had serious sexual
issues going on that she wasn't able to confront. And

(48:24):
having a friend that like Sally and someone she could
confide in or go on trips or have you know,
sex with or whatever it might be, was one of
those things that she had to kind of keep a secret.
And you know, Ed getting onto that was one of
the things I added in of the comments that he
makes to her that you know, you're more than friends,
or you know she has a sharp tongue or what

(48:45):
you know, certain things that I'm like, oh, that's so good,
and it's just a little subtle thing and if people
pick up on it, like you great, and it's that's
totally intended.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
You know perfect. Yeah, Yeah, no, we definitely did, but
we kept like turning to each other. We're like, is
something else going on here?

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, it's like why she's so mad?

Speaker 2 (49:00):
It's like and it was like they what she always
wanted to like talk with her in private. Yeah, it
was just so. Yes, it definitely came across. Something that
took things in a slightly kind of supernatural direction was
when I'm ed as a child, you see he sees
like visions of this devil like figure when he's locked
in the basement. Was that just meant to kind of
like reflect his descent into evil or what was that

(49:22):
character meant to represent?

Speaker 3 (49:24):
No, it was one of those things.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
You know, again, I read in the encyclopedia that he,
you know, saw or heard voices or the devil within
a stove in the basement he was locked in, or
whether it the furnace or whatever, something within the door.
He would see this figure outline and it would tell
him things. And it was something that I just remembered
and kind of glassed on to and kind of built
that up within the script that he actually it manifests

(49:45):
into you know, him seeing this this devil or it's
filling his heads and he tries to block it out
as long as he can, but at a certain point
he just kind of accepts it and you know, lets
it in.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Also throughout the film, Ed has hallucinations of John Wayne.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
He was a huge John Wayne fan.

Speaker 4 (50:03):
I mean just you know, the Duke, loved the Duke
and loved his movies, and you know, wanted to emulate him.
And it was one of those things that I'm also
a you know, a John Wayne fan because I love
all Westerns and it's one of those things, you know,
it's my.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Dream genre to get it to make. I have numerous.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Scripts and it's it's just it's just something that is
just so manly and for someone who's berated by his mother,
you know, not being manly and being you know, less
than a man. John Wayne was the ultimate father figure
to him. And I think that's, you know, something that
just needed to be in there. And and my knowledge

(50:41):
of public domain and certain films that you can use,
and you know, The Angel and the Bad Man is
a film that's in public domain starring John Wayne, and
it was just a no brainer to add that into
the film. And you know, the posters in the background
and certain things that you know, if if I were
at Kemper and I were a John Wayne fan, I'd.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Have posters of you know whatever.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
So it it's you know, putting again, putting the writer
and the director myself into the shoes of a character.
And it's like, Okay, if he's a John Wayne, fanny'd
have posters, he'd have a knowledge of the lines and
you know, you of movies, and you'd kind of just
interweave that into the film. And the fact that he actually,
in true life, was a fan made it easier.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you know you touched upon this earlier, and
probably the murder I was the most fascinated by because
I just couldn't believe it. And you mentioned this was
the girl that he picks up. He and at first
I thought he was imagining it. But when he gets
locked out of the car and she's inside the car
with his gun and rather than trying to get away

(51:40):
or using it on him, she ends up doing everything
he says and letting him back in and then he
kills her. And so you're saying, so this was document
this was based on all true the events.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
It was one of those messed up things that that
I can only you know. She was fifteen years old,
young and just you know, he and again he's very
he was very charming and had a charisma, a magnetism,
same as Richard Rumirez, same as Ted Bunny. When you
see them in the interviews, they have a certain magnetism.
It's almost a movie star quality or a politician. I mean,

(52:13):
there's certain they give off something, whether it's good, bad
or whatever.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
There's something there. And I think, you.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
Know, she again being young, and he maybe you know,
his his energy was decease, you know, deceive, deceiving her
in a sense because she thought maybe she's just kidding around,
you know, because there was in the original script, it
was written that he rapes her. She's alive, she's hitting him,

(52:42):
she's doing it was a normal thing. And then when
the actress that was originally going to play that role
is like, I'm not getting raped in the backseat of
a car and and doing all this stuff and whatever.
So but she was really a good actress and I
wanted to use her. So I started re researching the
the uh that death, and I'm like, oh, he didn't

(53:02):
rape the alive girl. All these girls that he raped
and murdered or whatever, they were already dead before he
had any sex with them, So that made it easier
to tell the actress, don't worry, he's not gonna rape
you alive.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
You're you're you're gonna be dead.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
So but awkward conversation researching.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
The coup Kiyaku is her name, her murder It was
basically said, it went into great detail his retelling of
it that she, you know, once he was testing the
tape on her mouth and all this stuff. She was
very you know, docile and open to it and even
cracking some jokes and all. Everything that happened is the
way it went down. And then the fact that when

(53:42):
he locked himself in the car with the gun on
the front seat and she's in the back and he
can't get in, and they just shared a look and
she opened the door and let him back in.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
Wow. Yeah, that's one of most because I had never
I just couldn't believe that would happen. But then, but
you're right, there's certain people, especially if you're very where
maybe you were terrified and you don't know what else
to do. It's like the fight or flight.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Oh my god. I mean, but as a child, and
I I think I trusted all authority, and I think
that's the scary part.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yeah. Overall, What was your favorite scene in the movie,
either because it was your favorite to film or just
because of how it turned out. Do you have a favorite?

Speaker 3 (54:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (54:25):
I think you know, when Calarnell, Susan Preever goes to
his door when he's in his room and she, you know,
is drunk and she's in the stockings and the nightie
and she's getting all sexy after you know, you know,
telling him that John Wayne would fuck her, and you know,
and then she starts doing you know, Streetcar named Desire
and lines from you know plays, which are certain things

(54:46):
that I added because the actress, Susan Preever is does
a lot of theater, and I know that she's huge
on you know, Streetcar and you know, Death of Salesman
and certain things, so interweaving those into her character for me,
was one of those things. Okay, this is what an
actor can connect to, especially sees biggest stage. So it's

(55:07):
not just a drunk abuse of mother. It's look, she's
got a love for theater. She's done these things. And
when she came out and you know, kind of let
it all out and she was free and whatever, and
you know, half naked and wearing the sexy lingerie and
grabbing her tits and drunk and you know, telling her
son that you know, John waynwd fucker is a great

(55:27):
moment because I had not seen or rehearsed any of that.
And then when she comes out in the outfit that
I hadn't seen before, and she gave one hundred and
ten percent and I knew, you know, right then and there,
I'm like, Okay, that's she's going to play Dorothea in
the next film. So it kind of it's certain things
that you know, you remember as a moment. Not only

(55:47):
is cinematically is a great moment, but for me everything
kind of aligned and it was like, Okay, this paid
off not only for the actor and the character, but
for me as a writer.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
And you know, good, you know, I just thought of
something as we were saying, is because Ed Kemper, the
real life Ed Kemper is still alive in prison, correct,
And you said that he's big on press to had
you ever considered like going to actually talk with him
in person or as that would that have even been allouder.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
I had Brandon Kirk, who plays Ed Kemper, write him
a letter and to see if he'd be interested in
looking at the film.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Because we'd love to get a quote to put on
the Blu ray. And Kemper gives it two thousands?

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Did he respond or I mean just.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
He just sent it a couple of weeks ago, so
hopefully you know that might be a little morbid, but
you know.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Wow, the Real Life Killer says two thumbs up. You
really portrayed those murders. Well wow. So you know, like
I mentioned in the intro and you you've talked about
throughout I read that you have you know, not one,
but two additional true crime thrillers on the way, one
based on serial killer Darthea Plente and one based on

(57:00):
the night Stalker Richard Ramirez. So what can you tell
us about like, when do you are these what stages
are these films at, when do you think they'll be
coming out? What can you tell us about those two
coming up?

Speaker 4 (57:11):
Ed Dorothea was just delivered to Dred who who's putting
out at Kemper. They're also going to put out Dorothea
this year, probably in a few months, and we're shooting
Richard Ramirez Nightstalker in July, so this year and hopefully
that'll come out and you know either end of this
year October December or early next year.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Wow. So you're saying you could have three movies out
in the same year.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Oh, actually I do.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
I've got you know, my Lovecraft film Unspeakable Be on
the Wall of Sleep with Eddie Furlong came out this year,
so did ed Kemper, and so will Dorothea.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
So three years, three films already this year.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I feel lazy if Night Stalker.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Gets done, gets out at the end of this year
before films in a year, which would be monumental for me,
so I would be through.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Oh my god. I also saw on IMDb it's said
that you're in pre production for a film called Horse,
where a gunfighter seeks revenge on the men who murdered
his horse. What what is that? When is this coming
or have you already written or what? That's that's my.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Dream Western I you know, I wrote the script like
ten years ago, and it's it's really my passion, you know,
ultimate King of the Mountain Hill, King of the Hill
kind of film. So it's you know, funding came and
went to numerous times, but it's it's in the back
burner that hopefully it'll get made some day.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Overall, what do you like most about making horror films
or true crime films? Are just films in general.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
I think it's just you know, the the freedom of
you know, anytime, you know, when you're alone or you're
with a friend, you see a movie or a then
it just.

Speaker 3 (58:50):
Pulls you in.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
And you know, that's what making movies to me is
it just it's it's this energy and this fun of
just being able to make something that either I love
and you hope other an audience love, But it boils
down to me and I love doing and seeing what
I'm making, and it it's just a vicious circle of
you know, this wanting to just keep creative and keep

(59:13):
busy and keep making things that you know that I
personally want to see.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
You know, Yeah, wow, I mean you are definitely keeping
busy and say that, I mean you can't wait to
see what else just in the next couple of years.
I mean, if you are working this quickly now, I
just can't even imagine it. But that's great. You know,
you're doing what you love, and you're doing a lot
of it, and you're working with people that you enjoy
working with. Like, what more can you ask for from life? Right?

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (59:37):
No, that's a nap a nap.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
Well, So we have one final question for you, Chad,
that we ask every single person at the end of
our interview and it kind of puts you on the spot.
But and I don't know how many interviews you've done
specifically for ED Kemper so far if you're about to start,
but what is one thing that you can tell us
about your experience working on ED Kemper that you have
never told any other interviewer, publication or podcaster to date.

(01:00:05):
Just one thing. I mean, it can be really salacious,
or it can be just a random thing, but something
you have never told any other interviewer podcaster about your
experience working on ED Kemper.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Wow, Oh gosh, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
That think deep into all of that filmmaking of that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
I guess it would be uh.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
We were having a casting session and one of the
girls that was for the uh again, the coup character,
the fifteen year old bus stop. She was outside I
was outside smoking for a break and she comes out
and she's like, Oh, I really really really really want
this role. I really am I'm going to be great
at this role. Oh please please give you this role.

(01:00:50):
And I'm like, well, you know, we'll see what happens.
I mean, you did a great audition, and oh, I
gotta catch my bus. And she runs to get her
bus and I'm like, oh, that's nice that, you know,
she took a bus all the way out here. She
gave a great audition.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
I finish my cigarette and I go back in and
I'm like, you know, hey, she was great. Let's let's
get her, you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Know, and uh, you know, let's let's cast her.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
They call her up and she's like, okay, I'm this
this is made by day. This is so exciting, this
is so great, and uh, you know, she was just
a static over the phone that she got this role.
And then, uh, you know, a week before shooting, my
producer Jeff Olan calls up and he's like, Chad, I'm sorry,

(01:01:31):
she she just canceled. Well, you know, to be honest,
her her manager canceled because you know, you know, it's
not you know, union, there were issued, there's all these things,
and I'm like, what the hell are you talking about.
This girl was so excited and whatever. But someone you know,
in her inner circle or whatever, it would be dissuaded,
you know. And that's that's the thing I think that

(01:01:52):
happens with a lot of people, you know, even you know,
even with reviews. People were, you know, I love this movie,
this was great. Then they go on and they see
these negative reviews and I'm not gonna say anything.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
It's a shift in you know, And I always say,
go with your gut and the feeling that you have.
If you like something or you want to do something,
just do it. Don't listen to anyone else, you know,
And that was one of the things she missed out
big time. I mean, and maybe not maybe it's something
she doesn't even want to be involved with.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
But you know, the positive end, the girl that took
her place Aaron lou was is phenomenal. I mean she,
you know, get on the floor, get on the ground
and take off your clothes and then get in the
trunk of the car and let him rape you know,
no problem, whatever, you got it, you know, and with
a smile on her face. So you know, I guess
it was meant to be. But it's one of those
things where I know that that first girl really wanted

(01:02:44):
this and was so excited and so onto it until
someone said you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Shouldn't do this, Why would you do this? Far would
you know it?

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
It planted a seed again where they now saw something
instead if they would have just went for their gut.
Don't let anyone tell you you're not talented, don't let
anyone tell you you're ugly. Don't Just go with yourself
and your own feelings and you'll succeed in this life.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Wow, Yeah, you know, it's so funny that you say that.
First off, thank you for sharing that with us. That
is a when we talked to a lot of horror
stars who were in movies from you know, thirty forty
years ago, and we asked them like, you know, why
didn't you come back for the sequel? And we hear
so often it's like, oh, my manager said, you know,
I should try something different, shouldn't do it, And then
they tell us that today they really regret that they

(01:03:26):
didn't do it because like their legacy. I'm thinking of
like Amy Steele would a Friday the thirteenth, It's like
I should have done part three. Yeah, they wanted her
to be in Part three. I don't know if you're
a Friday fan, but like yeah, so one of the
greatest final girls. And she told us even in our
interview they had a script for they were going to
continue the Parcter, which would have been so amazing. The
scripts sounded great, and like someone told.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Her too many cooks.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Yeah, someone told her and she didn't take it and
she regrets it. And so many people I feel like,
do that and where you know, someone tells them this
isn't the right move for you. So that that's a
great common and we do hear that more often than not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
For television.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Yeah, oh you need to move into rom comms?

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Yeah, yeahs would you ever direct a romantic comedy?

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
You know, there's certain things that I can you know,
you know, like I said, film noir, western sci fi.
I love all that stuff, you know, naked gun, I mean, anything,
Zucker Brothers, you know, all this stuff that you know,
I would love to try if the script's right and
the time is right, and the people involved are right.
You know, it's never say never to anything. You might
have the you know, the time of your life, or
find something you like even better to do. You know,

(01:04:35):
you never know, and I'm always open to try it
or or or see what happens. You know, it all
goes around to the people you're working with. If it's
a fun group of people and a good energy and
they're helping the creative process by you know, great ideas
or whatever and making just it just very enthusiastically refreshing

(01:04:58):
experience that I'm pretty much up for anything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
You know. Wow, I'm seeing Chad Fair and rom com
in twenty twenty six. Yeah, anyway, well, thank you so much.
We really enjoyed chatting with you. Again. I think you're
you're such an inspiration for I think filmmakers, for horror,
filmmakers for horror lovers, and and we can't wait to
see what comes from you in the next well just
in the next maybe like three months. So I hope

(01:05:22):
you get a nap.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
I mean, like you probably work from like seven in
the mornings, like seven the next day.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
No, no, it's like ten to ten.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
You know, it's a long day. It was like ten
to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
What do I get my three hour lunch?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Well, yeah, we really enjoyed chatting with you. We will
definitely stay in touch. Everyone either tried it to catch
Ed Kemper in a theater near you or on demand.
And yeah, thank you so much and we wish you
nothing but the best.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Thanks, guys, you were amazing and I hope we do
this again, especially on Dorothea right around the corner.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
That's awesome. Okay, we'll take care, we'll chat with you.
So thanks guys. Okay, bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Happy Horror Time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
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(01:06:33):
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Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
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Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
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