Ep 259: Interview w/Mark Soper from “Blood Rage”

Before Eli Roth’s “Thanksgiving,” one of the only slasher films that took place on this holiday was 1987’s “Blood Rage” starring Mark Soper as twin brothers, Terry and Todd. Tune in to hear all about how he approached playing these two characters, what it was like working with Louise Lasser (who played the very eccentric mother), whether his iconic line, “It’s not cranberry sauce!” was scripted or improvised, and his interpretation of the film’s wild ending.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, Welcome to Happy Horrid Time. My name is Tim.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Murdoch and my name is Matt Emmert. Now it doesn't
have to be Thanksgiving for today's special guest to have
us saying it's not cranberry sauce. After all. This was
his signature line from the nineteen eighty seven Thanksgiving set
slasher blood Rage, in which he played not one but
two characters, twins, Terry and Todd. Now one of these

(00:33):
twins was a psychotic, cold bloody killer and the other,
well everyone just thought was. He also appeared in the
nineteen eighty nine horror sequel Graveyard Shift two. We are
so excited to welcome to the podcast, Mark Soaper. Hey, guys,
how's it going?

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Terrific? Terrific? How's it going?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
You great? Good? You know I heard you mention in
your interview on the Blood Rage Blu Ray that you
got addicted to acting after doing drama in school. So
can you kind of take us through how that led
to you pursuing it professionally?

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Well, short version, medium version. The version that I get
a kick out of is that I was getting into
some kind of troubles at school and my sister said,
go ahead of the theater Department's next marine, and it'll
take all your attention and all you have to give
to it. So I went down and I got cast

(01:31):
into the Life and Death of Sneaky Fitch, which is
some kind of yeah, it's some kind of high school churner,
you know, entertaining appropriate project. Then I got so obviously,
I got so nervous. I didn't even know it was nerves.
I came down with a horrible fever, and they kept

(01:54):
me home. And then they decided that the marine said
he just asked stage for it'll he'll get over he
gets on stage. So I went down and my parents agreed,
and I went down. I might have been tenth grade.
And I went down, and I had these long red

(02:14):
underwear for this captor is supposed to be some old
contankers drunk or something. And I hadn't been at the tech,
so it's the first time I'm on the auditorium stage,
and auditorium stages all have that lacquered finished and not
real theater stages. And I come bursting out at the
beginning of it, these saloon doors and I burst down
steps and on the lacquered thing with a full bodysuit

(02:37):
on including feet where this is gone, and my legs
just went out completely underneath me. With my fever of
one hundred and three, I slid all the way down
like I was doing an avalanche thing. I remember the feeling,
and I said, I can't. I'm not going to stop this.
And I hit the edge of the stage and I
just said fuck it, and I just choose me. Can

(02:58):
I say that? Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, please? We cut all the time.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
So I just opened up spread eagle and went right
down in a thing and landed pung.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
And that was your first play.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah. And I sat up like this and the audience corps.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
I laid back down and got back up again, and
they corpse again and I laid back down, Oh my
god again and they kind of the laughter was.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Kind of dwindling down the three and then I got
up and started the play. And Uh, that combination is
the thing. It's the combination of whatever was causing that
fever that level of Honestly, God, I don't remember feeling anxious,
but I did had myself worked up in this some
kind of a state that I had that fever and

(03:48):
then getting that response from an audience that I and uh,
you know, I shut it right in the vein. But
then the second part of your question was, and I'll
stop before I go into profect. Do you want to
you want to?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, yeah, how that kind of that kind of thing
is pretty common what I just told you, Whether whether
people will tell you or not, whether they know it
or not, it's I would say, well over fifty percent
of people who spend their lives doing this got an addicted.
You know. The other thing is is also very common,

(04:23):
which is that I broke up with my true love
in college. You know, I knew that acting wasn't anything
as serious grown up would do, and uh she when
we broke up, however, it happened, and it broke my heart.
Oh my god. I was so devastated, and I decided
I would do whatever the hell I wanted to do

(04:45):
with my life again. Fuck it.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
I mean, when you're when your heart's broken, I mean,
you just want to go to where the love is.
And then that seems to be on stage so fresh start.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh that I never thought of that before. I has
thought about the pressure of making a living and being
a regular citizen and getting married and having family and
doing all that stuff. That was That's the way it
was done back then, still not required?

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Did you the fair enough? How did you jump into
like getting an agent? And how did that all start?
After doing theater?

Speaker 3 (05:20):
When I went to New York, I was East Coast.
I was a serial soccptor, I mean really boom, crackingly
serious and so ambitious. When I went to New York,
all I thought was can I ever get a paying job?
Will I ever get a paying job? And I basically

(05:44):
did three things to prepare and go through all three
of them, but one of them I don't want to.
I know, I want to get into all of this actually,
but I got to audition at Circle Rep and I
was doing Summer Stop. How I got that audition is
just a whole book. And I don't even know if
I want to go public with all of it, because

(06:04):
it just looks better on the resume if I just
said I was a member of Circle Rep.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, there's a lot of things on my resume questionable.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
I was knocking on some doors, is what I'm saying.
But I got an opportunity to audition, and I got
the park.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
And growing up, were you a fan of horror? Films
were any on your radar.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
The only one that leaps to mind is that, And
it's not really a horror film per se. The blind
woman falls down and pulls herself across. The bad guy's
pulling himself across the floor with a knife, and Audrey
Hepburn's running around blind and she can't see.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Oh wait until dark?

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Right? Yeah wait, but that's not really what you mean.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
That's a good one, that thriller.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
That's a thriller. But the horror films genre, really, I
hadn't thought about this, so please, you know, I'm seventy
years old. Guys, horror films really didn't take off to
the eighties. I mean they were around Chainsaw Massacre.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Yeah, that was seventies.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I made myself when I got blood Rage, I went, well,
this is brand new. What the hell am I going
to do with this? And the shining I think had
just come out? Yeah yeah, okay, So I went out
and got Chainsaw Massacre. I went back and looked at
Kubrick's thing again. I didn't understand it the first time,

(07:32):
but after I did my research on horror films, I
went in as a masterpiece of that genre extended, you know,
what I mean, But I didn't know that genre. So
when I saw his phil, I thought, well, this is weird.
You know, it's really great whatever it is, But what
is it now?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
Did you go back and watch the greatest slasher of
all time, the original Halloween from nineteen seventy eight by
John Carpenter.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
I'm not going to say I didn't, but I'm not
I would think if I saw that at that time.
I'm so aware of it now that but I'm not
going to say I got a bunch of They were
eight tracks back, like eight track video. They were whatever
you call them, dhs hs, the big ones, not the
little one. Oh oh yeah, data, yeah whatever. They were

(08:20):
around for about five years or so, and then they
got replaced by the smaller ones. But I don't remember
what they all were, except I do distinctly remember Chainsaw
Massacre because I want whatever this genre is, this is
a standout. Yeah, So before I think that about that film,
go ahead.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Oh yeah, no, no, it's held up. Yeah, the original
text of Chainsaw Massacre.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Iconic.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
What they're doing is that's a little fulfilled. It's they're
imagining in that space in a way that's a little
more uncomfortable than some of the other horror films which
give you they kind of give you a way out,
you know what I mean, we're over the top. That
was a little at times, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
No, definitely. So I was gonna say, before Blood Rage,
I noticed that your very first feature film was nineteen
eighty two's The World According to Garp, where you started
alongside some big names like Robin Williams, Glenn Close, John Liftgow,
Jessica Tandy. So what was that experience?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
Like? You know, I walked in for the first read,
and you never know, I was still relatively young. Who's
going to make you nervous? And who isn't going to
make you nervous? And it doesn't really have to do
it whatever it has to do with their persona is
something about the way they But I don't know why

(09:41):
I was late. Maybe I was being a jerk, you know,
being a young star jerk. And who's the last one
in the room. I can't imagine, because of everybody involved
in it. But however, I got there late, not late,
but towards right before start. And as I was walking around,
all these people are gathered around this big round table
for the first table reader the script with Oh God,

(10:04):
that wonderful director and and Butch Casside's Sundance kids, you
know all that. So I walk in and somebody says, well,
this is Mark and all very friendly people and just
kind of a community of New York actors and kind
of a community of New York working actors. So there
are two or three people I'd met, and that people
knew each other. It was very convivial. But the bone him,

(10:29):
there's Robin Hey, Robin, and there's Hugh Cronin and Jessica
Tandy and I went.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
So you were starstruck.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Oh, I don't know what it was. It was a
physical reaction. It was literally a physical reaction and I
had no anticipation of it. So what was it like?
It was, you know, watching Robin Williams. He was just
the most generous spirit. He was the most sensitive person
I think I have ever met. And rehearsing it on

(11:02):
a sound stage with him, mister So's octor and watching
him just dive into thing. I mean, he started playing
the dog. There's a scene. I don't know if you
know the film, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
My family watches it like every.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
He gets bit by Bowser, you know, did he bite
him on a pecker or something? And he was there,
and it was like the director would have to I
don't know why I'm dropping on his name. He's such
a great director, and he's like.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
No, these are names that you can drop.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
But he he kind of had to pull him in
at a certain point because he was a genius. Yeah,
people saw that word around, but I'm telling you, if
you're around, if you were anybody was around him that
you know, so he would go off. So he was
at one point he's working on the script, then another
point he's just vamping and going off and he starts

(11:54):
playing a fucking dog.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
I feel like I can imagine that with something like Williams.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
The stand up is so like he's like this and
he's like this, like this.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Fringing up, you know, rehearsal, and yet everybody kind of
gave it to him. I forget who he's in the
scene with, and you just you know, because anyway, but
it was one of the highlights of my life as
bee as it was was working on that film with
those people.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's amazing, you know. But now moving on to what
I'm sure is the other highlight, of your life. Blood Rage, Now, yeah,
I know this movie went through many different titles, including
the complex slasher, Nightmare at shadow Woods, and of course
Blood Rage. But when you auditioned, what was the movie called?

(12:41):
And do you remember what the audition was like for
the twin rolls of Terry and Todd?

Speaker 3 (12:47):
No, and probably not. I would guess Nightmare at Shadow Ridge,
but I don't. It went through so many different titles
that I thought I was just kind of loose in
the head because I didn't know what to refer to
it or put it on a resume. But it did

(13:08):
go through a lot of titles and a lot of owners.
It took a while to get released. Yeah, and it
was flipped, and you know that was very common for
horror films. You probably know all that business of it
much better than I do. But I mean track who
made money on text Chainsaw mask her?

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah? No, But how about the audition? Do you remember
anything about what they asked?

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Chemistry reads with the other time, I remember, or with yourself?

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Yeah, chemistry reads with myself? Well, you know, I remember
the casting director, Amanda Mackie was next door and I
happened to have a connect with her because she was
my first agent. I was her first client when I
first got my first show in New York. I remember
the room. I remember the hall where it was the

(13:59):
rest of them making up. I'm sure that I had
an audition doing both. I can tell you about preparing
the two characters.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, Hey, you know what it's it's been
almost forty or for more than forty years.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
I remember what I did last Wednesday. So yeah, trust me,
no worries.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, but at one question and again, anything you don't remember,
it's totally fine. We talk to people all the time
who are like, can you remind me about that movie?
Do you know if the filmmakers ever considered casting actual
twins as Terry and Todd? Or do you think they
always wanted just one actor to play both roles?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
The best of my knowledge, they always wanted one. I
know who their second choice was. Oh well, I oh,
I just remember his name. I'm not telling you, oh.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
So closed.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
About whether I'll say, and I'm just being honest, you know,
Otherwise I never would have I would have teased. But
the reason that the thing went up is that is
there a reason? Not too our lives crossed again in
another project, But he was the second choice. I don't
know if he would ever be aware of this. Then
he was the second choice, but there were negotiations involved,

(15:08):
and he was the second choice anyway, Peter Strong, okay.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
And then you crossed paths with him later in your career.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
When I was doing Sweet Bird of Youth opposite Lauren McCall.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Oh my god, you got to work with Lauren McCall.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I did Laura McCall for over one hundred performances of
Sweet Bird of Youth.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
What year was that?

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh geez, that's a question because she's in one of
another one of my favorite films called The Fan.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yes, do you remember The Fan? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, my god, it's an awesome film with Michael Bean. Yeah,
like he loves her and he tries to kill him.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
He's a fan.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Ye. I only ever had one experience like that.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Oh wait, you had an experience where a fan got
to creepy crazy with you.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I got a couple of creepy calls and a couple
of creepy things in the post. And then one night
I didn't order any food and oh, I just was
not expecting anybody, and it was evening, the sun was down.
I don't think it was really late and I opened
my apartment door in this guy's like, and it wasn't
an unpleasant or predatory look, but it was weird look,

(16:24):
and it was a terrifying who I it was the
same person? Who is? I had noticed the calls, I
had noticed the mail. I wasn't deluged, but it was
enough that I had noticed them over a couple of years. Wow.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
I mean, we've talked to people who have had stalkers,
and that's the kind of thing about fandom. The thing
that sucks about people who take fandom too far is
that it ruins it for the other people like us
who are just true fans but don't take it to
that level, you know.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I mean, I am wearing you on my shirt today.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
But he would not order you food in the all
the night or show up at your doorsteps.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
No, trust me. It was a very I'm not, you know,
one hundred percent, but we all have to make that
look on his face spooky. And and again it was
the calls and the rest of it beforehand, and I
knew right away that's who it was, and that's what

(17:24):
I put together here this but yes, okay, so yeah,
dead flat boom not interested discoes nowhere next call? So please?

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Was it was he a blood Rage fan? In particular?
Was there a specific thing you were in that he
was obsessed with.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
Body?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Well, of course, but no.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
No, I think I don't. I think it was it
was there a specific thing I don't remember? I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yeah, well that's good.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
The good thing is that you don't remember, because I'm
glad you're saying.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
You know what I'm saying in the sense that somebody
glombs onto you then they start watching whatever thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, So for listeners who haven't seen Blood Rage, basically,
the main story is that as kids, Terry frames his
twin brother Todd for a murder. He commits in front
of him, and Todd is too traumatized to speak up,
so he gets sent to a mental institution. But then
ten years later, on Thanksgiving, Todd escapes. He's intending to
tell everyone that he's innocent, just as Terry starts killing

(18:27):
people again. So I did want to ask you about
you mentioned this. Did you plan beforehand how you wanted
to play Terry versus Todd? Like, how did you decide
how to differentiate between them?

Speaker 3 (18:38):
Yeah, this is this is one of my favorite memories
from it. And when I was negotiating the contract, I
for sure brought it up. Yeah, I broke it down
because I was like Steinnslovsky, I was Theodore, mister serious actor.
And I broke each one down, and I had a list.

(18:58):
I can remember some of them.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
That was Todd. Yeah, that was Todd's expressions Terry.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
They're the more obvious ones, the body posture and the
head askew. And I'd write them down and I kept
it as a cheat list, as a checklist, because you
know you're working long hours. And trust me, it's their overlapping.
If this is a location where Terry and Todd both appear,
it's just boom. Next scene's tire and next thing's Todd.

(19:29):
And yeah, so I broke it down. I broke down,
But I don't remember specifically different things with the language too.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
And was it your idea to make Terry's hair Tod's
hair disheveled or in like r I.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Get because Todd had the more kind of disheveled hair
versus Terry's was nicely quawt sure.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Oh boy, was it? That was like the eighties? You know? Man?
I look at uh Todd and I go, is that
really me? That guy is such an asshole.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
That's one of the things I really love about the
movie is just like everyone is so eighties, and like
the girl's hair is big, and just everyone is so
it's so innocent. The film is so innocent.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
But I love I really do. Like you're saying, you
made a list of them, it really showed in the movie.
I'm not just saying that, like Todd just not just
his hair, but like you said that kind of hunchback,
I'm not gonna tell.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
You I'm proud of it. Well, yeah, I look back
on it for the the Blu Ray before I did
the Blu Ray thing, and they came to me about
reissuing it as a Blu Ray, and somebody bought it
in this whole phenomenon, you know, And I looked at
the the version I had looked at it in Ears,
and I went, huh, not bad, not bad. I was
really pleased with the consistency and the clarity and the

(20:49):
fact that the choices made held up. It just kind
of made sense.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
It did, and it helps the audience differentiate between them,
so because you know, we see different action because obviously
it's you playing both parts. But we can immediately be like, Okay,
that's Todd or that's Terry. But the other kind of
very important character in this movie is Terry and Todd's
mom Mad.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
So I got to ask you about this. This is
something I've wondered for so many years. Louise lass a
perfectly unhinged performance. Now Terry and his mom seem to
be really close, but like really close to the point
that I always wondered. Did the director John Grismer ever
talk about wanting it to seem like there was like
an incestuous relationship going on between Terry and his mom.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
We certainly played it. I don't think he talked about it.
And I think that that came from Luise because she's
so she was so intense, She's a she's inimitable performer.
And I make I may and I don't know if
you're familiar with these concepts, but I may carry the film.
But she's the essence of the of the world. She's

(21:58):
what gives the film it's heart, it's voice. She's what
makes it in that sense stand out, like if paralleling
to writing or to some other genres. Louise, and it's
funny that you should mention that, because only now that
you're mentioning it do I recall the intensity in the

(22:18):
touchy and all of that businesses she brought to it.
I think that was her.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
I was just thinking, I'm not that I'm close with
my mom, but we don't do that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
I think that's why this film everyone talks about it
because of your performances. There's an undertone that you want
to figure out, and it's like a mystery, like what
is going on between the son and mother.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
It's just like they're so close. I think there's even
they even kiss on the lips. She's very touchy feely.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yes, if you you know, well, I'm giving it lip service.
I am a serious actor doing this horror film. Louise
Lasser because she's famous for you know, the TV series. Well,
let me tell you something, man, in terms of intensity
and ferocity, she owned it and she was exploring all

(23:11):
this sceays symbolic, I'm exaggerating, not a whit.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Oh yeah, and what was it recognized.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Wherever she was? You know, anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
I was just going to say, what was it like
to work with her?

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Because it looked I mean, there were times when she
was on the phone or vacuuming or eating out of
the refrigerator. Was she improving and was the director open
to that?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
And was she anything like her character in real life?

Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yes? Yes, Now how much she was like on a
you know, I'll think about it and come back maybe.
But she she would bring, I'm sure, herself to any part.
She was playing some aspect of herself. She was that
kind of actress. And we ended up having problems. But

(24:06):
I never I mean, I couldn't be clear about this.
It's just I don't why I'm not finding the words
very about the work. There was never a question about
the work in my mind. But I remember, especially I
think it's todd but I'm going to I don't want
to manufacture that could have just been at a certain point,

(24:27):
Mark Sober just got thought I was frustrated with her,
but in fact it preferred the performances to some degree.
And there's no gain saying which she brought. There is
And I never did have the difficulties. But you know,
you're a human being too, you know what I'm saying.
Somebody's always kicking into shin. It doesn't matter how good

(24:48):
it is for the show. There's a part of you
that's going, hey.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
My shin hurts not we always watch this and you
know it's hard to look away when she's in the scene.
And that's why I think we were one Like did
the director want her to be that big or was
that her? And it sounds like it was her.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Well, I don't know. I have no contact with John Chrisma.
I don't you know, so if you were talking to him.
The time constraints on these things is so enormous. I'm
sure you talk to people. I don't hope they talk
about it, but they can be so enormous. Well, depending

(25:30):
on who's working on them and who's shooting it, I
guess you could do people line them up, shoot him down,
and get a very successful and effective product. I'm not
but that wasn't this one. And we haven't talked about
the understudy, but that was a completely different way process.

(25:52):
But when you're working with Louise, you're taking your time. So,
for example, one of the things that I became frustrated
with is rightly or wrongly, this is I'm just gon memory.
I'm sorry, I haven't I didn't spend all the time.
I did a couple of leads in films. I was
very ambitious. I wasn't just this one. I took it

(26:13):
on for a couple of other films. I felt like part,
which may not have been good for me, but I
didn't just feel the part. The part was part of
a movie. It was part of a whole thing. Literally
down to the point was if we don't if we
run out of money, we're not going to get the
whole script on it on screen. And I've seen those
kinds of things, and I'm sure you have, and some

(26:35):
of it's quite entertaining and some of it's funny as hell.
There are some very effective horror films that the narrative
just goes right out the window because they didn't get
it all. I just didn't get it all. You know,
it's a technical medium. You know, you run out of
money or you had a post production problem and you
couldn't raise the money to go back and get it hit.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
You know.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
You know what I'm saying. It's not that rare for
low budget so that I remember that creating a big
tension in me at.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
One point, did you have to go back and do
any kind of reshoots? Because it was filmed in eighty
three but released in eighty seven. Was it all just
filmed at one time?

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yes, I reviewed the tapes on I don't have any
no recollection. The only is that there are some very
different edits and there are time differences off to fifteen minutes. Yeah,
so again ort it feeds into if they if they
included I mean they got plenty of luise last or

(27:33):
if they printed it I'm call Alonis, or there was stuff. Again,
she would take done it space and it gave her
that presence, and you know, it really works there. It's
very effective. I don't think we ever went back. I

(27:57):
think certainly, not that I'm aware of all. But they
played around with different cuts and that has some different
emphasizing this that Neil.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
So wanted to ask you about your interpretation of this
because in terms of what sets Terry off on his
killing spree, in addition to finding out that his mom
is engaged.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
Oh oh see, I thought my brother got released. Go ahead,
Oh yeah, well it's the engagement.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Well, but it also that's what I was gonna say.
It also seems like he gets triggered by seeing people
having sex, like in the opening scene he sees the
people at the drive it having sex. He kills the guy.
Then he sees Greg and Andrew on the diving board
he kills him. So do you think it was sex
that triggered Terry or do you think it was just
one of those eighties slasher tropes, you know, where people
having sex have to die.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Well again and this is going back, you know, I
forgot it was the mom getting married. I remember the
guy now because he gets his head shopped off on
the thing. Is actually a funny story because it was
an effect that went horribly wrong and he came off
the pedestal and the first take it straight off all
over the room and sell down and collapse and they

(29:02):
had to do a whole new reset. It took like
half a day again. But that was the husband thing,
I mean, the betrothal. So I think that was probably.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well much funny.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
Of course, sex death, I mean that's like the trope
of most horror adolescent horror films.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
But I was just going to say that story about
your first kill that was actually a next question because
I heard you tell a little bit of it on
the PVD Horror podcast. Can you tell our listeners what
happened when you were filming that kill scene with the
with the mom's fiance where you cut his hand off?
What went wrong in that?

Speaker 3 (29:43):
They had some kind of I don't know exactly how
it happened, but basically, well, you know, now I'm retelling it.
Because of the camera angle and the desk, they had
to put the chair up on a platform and there
was probably a rug underneath, so the wheels didn't matter
on the chair. So this is coming together, I guess,

(30:07):
you know, these things come together. I don't remember standing
there watching them set it up, but when I came in,
they had the chair on the platform with wheels on it,
and it doesn't take a lot to see that that's
an invitation for disaster. But it wasn't happening at that point.
And they had the effect and they had the blood
pumps coming out of the hand hand, and it was

(30:30):
supposed to spin on the chair. But maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe it didn't have wheels, Maybe it just tipped, you know,
because you can't really rehearse it, right, It's like, yeah,
that's why they have stunt people. Sometimes nothing for the
actor here. You just don't have a lot of coverage.
It's a horror film, you know, So anyway, all I

(30:54):
meant by that is that when you're in the moment,
you're playing the you're doing all this, he is the
balance on the chair, whereas for a stunt person that's
the balance would be the balance on the chair. And
then wrote movements. You know they learned in stunt class.
You see it all the time. I mean a fight,
you know, I'm falling to the ground, keep motion. But

(31:16):
he was doing it anyway, so I've already busted the ending.
But when they called action, it started and it chopped
in the hands off and and he spun around and
it just tilted. Whether it was on wheels or just
lost balance. I think he was on wheels. It just
went right off the platform that they had thrown in
to get the camera angle right over the desk. So

(31:36):
once he started the teeter over the edge, now you
have the actor. Now he is trying to balance. The
blood's still spurting out of his hand, and he ends
up spinning around and shooting over everybody. And of course
they're running to cover the camera because you know, cameras
are gold.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Right right, They're expensive, Oh expensive as hell.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Anything goes wrong with him, you're held up for weeks.
I mean, cameras are a whole story.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
And what was it like working in Jacksonville, Florida. Did
you guys have the run of the whole complex? Did
you stay at the complex? Were you only allowed to
film at certain times?

Speaker 3 (32:13):
We stayed there. It's a funny story about staying at
the complex because the special effects guy had his apartment
and he had all the special effects in there, and
the cleaning lady freaked out because she didn't know, and
so she went in the day after he arrived, and
it just put out all this stuff with the bodies
and everything, and she cracks the door open and she
starts screaming and she runs out. So it was it

(32:37):
was a very very funny story. I wasn't there, but
I can imagine it. No, we didn't have a run
of the whole place, but you know, when you're shooting
a film and you're running half of the place. He
kind of had a run of the place. Yeah, I
don't remember that they rented up.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
I wonder what the neighbors thought.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
I know, I don't know. It's such a crazy world
being on a horror film. I mean, you probably know
who's made a horror film. About making a horror film.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Lots of people funny enough there. You know, it's now
there's so many meta like movie within a movie. But
I think, and we're going to get to this later.
But in Graveyard Shift two, you're making a vampire film
and it's all right.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
I have the images on NY I keep going back
over them.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so literally your film. Yeah. You know.
One thing we read about Blood Rage is that producer,
the producer Marian Canter, stepped in to play the role
of doctor Berman because the actress who was cast never
showed up. Do you remember how that all went down
or what happened?

Speaker 3 (33:44):
Oh god, I don't. I just she was such a
great character. She was so eccentric in Mary Anne Canter yes, yes, ye, yeah.
We haven't been in touch in forever. And I have
a business that just means a lot, and I had.

(34:06):
I had a percent on the film, some small amount.
I never expected to get paid, and so she did.
When it got sold, she she sent me a check.
I went out of my way to get back to her,
because then it's a business is business. Business is kind
of naughty, and film business and stuff is kind of

(34:26):
particularly naughty. And anyway, if you don't have to people
signed stuff all the time. I'm sorry if I'm breaking
anybody's illusions, but you know, it's what I got to
do if you can catch me, and only if it
costs more than the legal fees. It's it's just that's
the way it is. I'm sorry that breaks anybody's bubble,

(34:47):
but big dreams and really nasty on the money, it's
just this way it is. So I thanked her, and
she said, I always pay my investors and I always
pay my on track. But it's not It just feels
the rounding of her that she put all that together.

(35:09):
And I didn't know she was an actress, you know,
you know the business, everybody's an actor, everybody. And then
it didn't work, and so I became a great what's
his name, genius streaming series Yellowstone Appet Oh no, No,
Kevin was an actor and he made it. The guy

(35:30):
who writes all those things, he's liked it well, that one,
and then the prequels, and and then the Linus and
then all those. He started as an actor. I understand.
I don't know that. I don't know the man.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Speaking of the actors.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
Have you seen she was wonderful and that she was wonderful?
I don't want that was my payoff. However she came
to do it. I remember being surprised. I remember smiling,
and I remember going, you know, good for you.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
You're like, oh my, the producers in the movie, now
come on.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
You see wear these big hats. If you remember how
thinch in little does that come off, well, I mean
she's weigh ninety five pounds.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
The big memory is when she gets cut in half
and she's literally her top half next to her bottom
half in the movie.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
And you're so knocking about anybody put back together.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
I said, I want to put the bodies back together.
And the guy says, I'm just remembering this now as
we're talking. It was very open. We were very open
to stuff, and I think that that shows up in
the film adds some percentage of you know, effectiveness. And
the guy said, it's going it's not designed for it.
It's not designed for that. It's going to lose all proportionality.

(36:44):
As soon as you take it and put them back
together again, you're going to see that this is designed
to look like it matches if they were in the camera.
And I said, well, can we try it and just see?
It's such a moment I want to put her back together.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Well, she's Todd's doctor. I mean, he's been in the
mental institution for ten years.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Come on, I got to get myself back together. I've
got to put her back together.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
One thing that So there's an interview with Marian Kanter
on the Blu Ray also, and one thing she said
in her interview was that, apparently, and I wanted to
ask you if you had any recollection of this, Louise
Lasser and director John Grismer didn't quite get along. In
fact that Chrismer even quit in the middle of the
shoot and she had to get him to come back.
Do you remember there being tension between them on set?

Speaker 3 (37:33):
That's for her to talk about.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
And like, have you seen any of the actors or
any of the people that worked on Blood Rage since
you filmed? Have you run into them at all?

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Or that's a really interesting question. Amanda cast Amanda Mackie.
I referred to Peter Strong didn't getchaot I did, and
then I ran into him again later. I think it
was later another project that we worked on. I'm working
too hard. I remained friends with somebody for a while

(38:05):
for a few years, and she did a project that
Triangle factory fire. I saw that must have been almost
seven years after that, Lisa Randall, I have a small part,
not really.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
And what do you think of the music in the film,
because I absolutely loved the score. We are you a
fan of the scores as much as everyone?

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Well, I think the scores got changed a lot in
the edit. It's the different ones, so I don't want
to pretend I remember the last one that well, it's
very horrible. That's horrible. But if it comes back, you
want to hum a few lunes. No, I mean, it's like.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
A great rendition.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
I'm pretty sure that there was one that had I
could just be making this up. Did you just had
the keyboard, you know, because that was so popular for
about ten years. They just had that kind of keyboard
with the bells.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
The eighties cynthy feel catch you, especially by the pool.
I love the end. I know exactly what you're talking about.
It's very No, no, it's a very it's so eighties horror.
It's like the epitome of eighties horror. You know. One
thing we have to talk about is your iconic line
in the film. It's not cranberry sauce, which Terry repeats
over and over after killing already with a carving fork.

(39:29):
So I got to ask, do you remember if that
line was in the script or did you improvise it?

Speaker 3 (39:34):
I I want to be humble, and I want to
be accurate, and I want to have fun. So I'll
tell my version. If somebody else has their version, I'll
smile and say, well, you know, great, maybe that was
what happened. I don't want to be too serious about it.
As I remembered, I came up with that line, and

(39:56):
I took a pilot fork. I took a lot of
shit for that, not organized, just people going what the hell?
And I was going, you wit you eight You just
wait that that line's gonna stand out, That the line's great,
standing by it line. So when it did come back finally,

(40:17):
you know, it didn't have a lot of pop in
the first couple versions in the eighties, but boy does
resonate now.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, it's on my shirt. And did you think that
you'd still be associated with Blood Rage forty years later?

Speaker 3 (40:30):
Again, when you're on these films, he says, these films,
it has to feel when you're on these films, and
the whole crew on Blood Rage where like they were
like a professional group of itinerant, low budget filmmakers. At
least half of them were horror films. They were the
ones who are really the old hands at this world,

(40:54):
at this genre, at this and they were such a
world hunted themselves. I really dug it. I kind of
felt it being around them, very different from say, working
on garb Or. I worked in another film, Parole, that
had all Boston, the Yazi people, the very particular kind

(41:14):
of cruise. It's different from the La Cruise on a
higher budget from anyway. They have feels to them, they
have worlds And I don't forget what the hell you ask.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Now, but did you ever think you'd be associated with
this movie?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Are right? Right? So you're on the film and some
of these people are jaded as hell, others are still
like you know, and they're all so like traveling circus,
they're so into it. So when you people start saying, oh,
this is going to be different, it's going to be
a cult film, or this is going to make or
this that and the other, I gotta admit with Louise
Lasser and I thought, well, who knows, but I'm certainly

(41:53):
going to make it the best film I can. You know,
but you get the there's no way around it. You
get the few that that goes around to set an
awful lot on the making of these films, and it
probably helps motivate eight people. And everybody has dream and
aspirations and anything, so what are you going to walk
around and pop and bubbles? But all of which is

(42:13):
to say when I started to get slowly dribs and drabs,
the first was from Italy would have been happenstance or
it could have been a horror fist festival there. Then
I got some from UK. I got then it started
happening here in the States whether and I went, Wow,
something's happening with this thing, and here we are. This

(42:34):
is at least five years, six years after I was
first contacted, and this eighties horror genres is something nobody
could be more surprised and nobody could be more pleased.
I had no expectations.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
That's a great attitude to have, though, And I think
he also gives hope for people who do horror today.
They look at the you know, what these films from
the eighties have done, and how they're still so popular today,
and they think, oh, maybe my movie can catch on
and be a cult classic in forty years. You know,
it gives I think people didn't know when they were
filming these movies in the eighties that they would be

(43:08):
so popular so many years later. And now in a way,
people are taking horror more seriously because it has a
lasting effect.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Couldn't agree.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
You were in the heyday of eighties. It was like you,
it was a prime time So it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
So I got to talk about the climax of the
film at the pool, and I wanted to ask you,
do you remember how they filmed the big You have
a big fight scene. There's a big fight scene between
Todd and Terry. You're playing both characters fighting each other
in the pool, so essentially you're fighting yourself. But I'm
assuming there weren't effects at the time to show you
as both characters of once. So do you remember filming

(43:49):
that pool scene and how they had to do both parts?

Speaker 3 (43:51):
I'm calling it back as we talk. As you talked,
I'm going back to the pool. I remember the set
of the Pool. There was a sex scene on the
diving board, and there was the fight scene. I wasn't
at first recalling the fight scene, but I'm remembering it. Now,
I had a wonderful double.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
It was a really good double.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
He it's a really good guy and a good guy
to work with. And so we worked it out, you know,
with camera angles and the camera switches. I was really
fussy about the different body postures and all of that
serious actor stuff. And he was very non defensive and

(44:35):
very open. I mean, just you know, he didn't take
that as in any way an assault on his work
or anything. He just was trying to do the best
he could. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
I mean, do you remember did you have to film
all of one character scenes then all of the next
character scenes.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
They was constantly going back. They're not going to move
the camera. It was all about the camera in sevens.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, that's I mean what I give an.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
That's what I kept telling him when we were negotiating.
I said, you guys, man, you need you need somebody
with a theater background. You can you can pop these
characters like this, bang bang, Well you're on. This is
the way I would talk. God love the world that
puts up with me. He says, you know, you're not
going to take the time to move it all the
way around the pool. You're just gonna move ten feet
and the light's over, and if that's going to be

(45:22):
an angle on Todd, then the on one's on Terry.
Everything's going to be about the production and the costs
and the time, and you know, you need somebody who
can switch back and forth on this and not get
lost over the course or whatever six weeks.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yeah, I can't even imagine how complicated that would be
to film before you had you know, nowadays you can
just have the effects where literally they can put two
of you in one scene at once.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
But right back then you had to do an optical
and if we did one, it was it because they're
they're expensive to post and their time consuming on the
set because you have to lock everything down, you have
to shoot it on a certain frame. People to watch
which character it is as part of the joy of
watching doubles. So if we did one, you know what

(46:06):
I'm saying, So the people watching it would have one
that didn't line up. Oh that's the camerang last camerangle.
Oh they're both in this shot. And even back then
you can see that the depth is never quite exact.
It kind of looks a little odd.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
But today the eighties it worked. Yeah, it worked. Yeah, Yeah,
I also wanted to ask you about your interpretation of
that kind of crazy ending where Louise last or the
mom finally shoots Terry, the true murderer, to death, but
then when Todd tells her that he's in fact Todd,
she gets really upset that she killed Terry. It ends

(46:43):
up killing herself. So I'm just wondering your thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Did you know what hurts me? That really hurts me.
I mean, just to hear it just really hurts my
feelings because I was experiencing Todd and it's just what
a fucked up family a man.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
And she starts screaming, I'm Todd.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
That's my favorite part of But God love her for it.
I just I may I may get, I may get
depending on other body's recollection. You know, it's not Cranberry.
So he gets an awful lot of that stuff. And
I'm pretty sure I was that's her.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I do gotta ask, though, did you interpret that ending
as Okay, the mom just loved Terry so much she
didn't care if he was a murderer. She just wanted
him to survive. Or do you think she actually still
thought Todd was the killer and shot the wrong son.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Oh, man, not even a philosophical first you know, my
first take. Honest, she loved him more than me, and
he was her perfect baby. I was the you know,
ordering compulsion. You know, I was the one who didn't
fit in. So I was designated as you know, evil,
and he was designated as perfect. But it's pathful lot

(48:00):
because she's nuts.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, I mean she's witnessing him killing and doesn't care.
She's still that's her favorite son. It's really you're right.
I love that you said it's a fucked up family.
There's no better way to describe the family than sequel.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Where's the dad?

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Well, I don't know. If somebody asked me on an
interview if I would do a sequel and I said,
are you can just send me a day and time.
I mean the work, the work on these things can
be so fun. I'll just you know, we can talk
about it or not, but it can be so fun.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
And what was your thought when the film was wrapped?
Was there a cast and crew screening or any kind
of red carpet or like movie theater, like where everyone
got to see together.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
I got immediately mixed up with something I did with
Patrick O'Neill. Why I don't know, and I'm gonna guess
because obviously they were two different projects. Who's ahog quoting project?
And this was all they screened at the same screening
room in New York City and Manhattan. I do remember

(49:07):
seeing a screening. It was kind of it wasn't in
the same rhythm, a normal rhythm. There's ne really no
normal in these things. But I think it was like,
could have even been two years later. It just feels
to me like there was a long there was something
odd about screening. But yeah, there was a screen in

(49:29):
New York that I'm either fabricating or that actually happened.
And I think it did happen. And my guess would
be right around the time it was sold.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
And you like seeing it on the big screen.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Oh yeah, it's always fun, you know.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
You know you mentioned that it took a while before
it really caught on and you realized how popular it was.
So when did you first become aware that blood Rage
had this cult following?

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Again, I got this weird and I'm remembering it now
from Italy and I went wow, because think about the
time you're talk in nineteen eighties, and then it got
sold into the video stores that was the first if
you watch the thing with cann or maybe she talked
about it, but that could have been three years later.

(50:15):
It was some time. So whenever that was, say it's
even nineteen ninety, even nineteen ninety, that's even if it's fifteen,
So it's twenty five years, twenty five, thirty years. And
I see it as somebody approaches me on the internet
or some somehow. I think it was email, you know,

(50:37):
would you do an interview or da da da dad,
And I'm going, whoa, I haven't heard about this filming.
And then you know, four months later you get another one.
There you go, and then two months you get three
and you go, hey, something's going on here. And then
it just it accrued and here we are today and

(51:00):
the Blu Ray, the Blue Rays kind of kicked it.
I got to approach it again and they said, we
we own it. Now, we're going to do and re
get it and we're going to do put it out
a Blu Ray. Would you be part of the Blu
Ray thing? Of course?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
And I think that was twenty fifteen twenty around there,
sometime around then that the Blue Rain camera.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
That was what my guess, My guess was maybe ten
years ago. Yeah, I don't think it was more than
ten years.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
What do you think is the appeal that has everyone
coming back to blood Rage all these years later.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
I was talking to somebody about this about five or
six years ago, somebody I was interviewed, and you know,
harmlessly enough. It could have just been my own attachment
to my own work, but I meant it when when
the interviewer asked me, I as I recall back then

(51:52):
being the psychotic killer, a psychotic character. You know, it's
just before Hannibal Lecter. So you had people out there,
but they were so insane. You know, they're all weird
looking and you know, twisted look whatever. But to have
the normal guy be the killer, to have that experience

(52:14):
of a normal but problem person versus a perfect but
pathological person, I thought that that was really new, and
I thought that that was kind of compelled. I'm not
saying that that's true or not true, but the interviewer
kept saying, well, it's a Thanksgiving film, thanks Getting holiday movie.

(52:34):
And of course we both agreed about Elizabeth, about Louise
Lasser and just the world that he creates by her performance.
But I think he's right.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
You tell me, I mean I might right. I think
it's a combination. I think the twin aspect of one
being psychotic but seen by everyone else as normal, while
the one who's seen as psychotic really is the one.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
That's what I thought.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah, it's such a cool, inventive twist for the slasher
genre and putting it on a holiday holiday. Slashers are
so popular. It's the kind of thing where when it
hits Thanksgiving. I mean, even we Tim and I we
always like we got to watch blood rage. So it
gives it a time timely factor.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
You know, you know Hannibal Lecter. I don't think there's
a Richard Widmark film where he pushes the Is she
in a wheelchair? It made his career? Do you know?
At least what I'm referring to.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Is it fade to black?

Speaker 3 (53:30):
It could be.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
I feel like I know the scene.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
It's a famous scene, and more people have heard of
it than I've seen it. I have seen it, and
it's one hundred years later, no, ninety whatever, and it's
still shocking. Hollywood had a moment where they would have
a character push an invalid down the stairs with of
anything a little relish, but basically until hannilber Lecter became

(53:59):
this how can I put it simply, but symbolically resonance
with an experience that mass audience has had with themselves.
Kids felt psychotic, kids felt I'm so weird, I'm so different,
I can't fit in. You know, we have these impulses.

(54:20):
We don't know what to do with them. That character
was a gestalt in the novel and on screen, and
that's where my first saying that those the brothers. There
was something about the good guy being crazy, that killer
that was new. I don't know enough to know from

(54:42):
a film history point of view, if I was teaching
them that, I have to go and look at all
you know, because that's what knowledge is. But it felt
that way at the time. Yeah, that was that was
something that was burgeoning, but new, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I mean, I think again the holiday part is an
aspect of why it's popular, but I don't think it's
the only aspect. I mean, definitely the twine I.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Don't know, and the mother thing.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
It's just I think it's also because you're so casual,
like you're like, oh, my brother broke out of a
mental hospital.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Well like it's like it's so like yeah, no, no,
when he commits the murders.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
That was fun and bold. That's what I'm saying. It's
fun and bold. He has on it had fucking all.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
So how you doing?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah exactly. It was very just like matter of fact.
So you know, Blood Rage wasn't your only horror film.
We mentioned in the intro that you returned to the
genre in nineteen eighty nine's uh the understudy Graveyard Shift too,
as Matthew one of the filmmakers of the vampire movie
within a movie. So what I was wondering is when
you auditioned for this film, had you seen the original

(55:54):
Graveyard Shift or know anything about it?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
No, I don't know that for one hundred percent, but
that's something I did after. I'm virtually positive.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
And you mentioned on the PVD Horror podcast that working
with director Jerry Chacati was one of the best experiences
of your life. So what about his directing style what
made it such a great experience?

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Totally collaborative. It was totally collaborative, and i've now since
then once or twice had it. You know, I did
a short film. I love this short film famous last words,
and the casting director at blah blah, but she was
having trouble bringing her vision to the director's vision. So

(56:39):
she was for me and he was reticent, but he
couldn't find anybody. But she finally said, you guys meet
over coffee. And I'm nervous because you know, business is business.
You don't want any any chance to screw something up
in any event, I trusted her and we weren't making progress,
and I said, you got it some time. I was

(57:00):
just good anyway. So we sat down and we started talking.
If you feel where this is going, and you're always
nervous meeting a new person, and within ten seconds it
was like, oh, and he's so much younger than me,
a different all different point of view, but the love
of the work, the love. He was all film. I'm
theater and film different eras he's la I'm New York too.

(57:23):
It was sympatical Jerry, deep and wide, deep and wide
right from the beginning. So we just got along about
the work. There was just simpatico about the work, the work,
the work, and he got time to rehearse, which is
unheard of it low budget. It was just great working

(57:46):
with him. I don't know if I referred to this,
But when I came back to New York, I was
singing his praises and I'm trying to remember which agent
doesn't matter to you I was with at the time.
But then they came back and said, this Jerry Chicker
reading might really be something. I said, well, I just
had the best time in my life whatever, whether it
was a one off or whatever, I had the best

(58:08):
time in my life. One of him says, yeah, because
you do know them a bitch. Really? He said, yeah,
you're always like so critical of everybody and everything, and
I said, oh my god. So he said, this guy
must really be something. So yeah, I love working Jerry Chick.

(58:30):
You know, if all I know he was handling me
that fine, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, yeah, but I mean.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
He was so damn good at it, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yeah, who cares ah exactly. You're your character in Graveyard
Chip two ends up kind of taking out the vampire
in the end, so essentially you're the hero of that film,
which is way different than being a murderer and blood rage.
So I have to ask which do you enjoy more?
Playing a hero or a villain.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
I I'm so glad that you're spending a moment on
this film because I haven't thought about it. Not only
did I love working with him, but I love playing
that character. Why did I love playing that character? What
did you say? He's normal? I mean, but I remember
now it'stinctly feeling, you know, you can be be more myself?

(59:22):
Just there wasn't a you know, it's like, what what
of me can I just bring? What of How much
do I have to change or alter or whatever to
bring life to the demands of the character's situation. And
because of the way we worked, including Jerry, but because
of the way we worked, I just felt like, I could,

(59:45):
you know, literally do scenes where I literally just I mean,
isn't there the one in the bathtub with the ring on?
I don't know if you got to see it again?

Speaker 2 (59:54):
We did, yeah, yeah, yeah, I revised.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
That it was a big action sequence at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Well that at the end yet, but it's also you
kind of there's like a little bit of a romantic
connection with I think the lead.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
We came up with the stopper and the ring and
the stopper for the engagement ring. Unless again I'm crazy
and inventing it, but that shit is so fun yeah,
you know, to just be in a situation and working
with Wendy Gazelle, I believe in whoever came up with
the engagement and the candles and the crews working and

(01:00:29):
getting the lighting and you're talking with the director and
that kind of thing is fun. So anyway, I really,
which do I enjoy more? I said, this stuff can
be really fun to work on. I was thinking more
of Blood Rage because you get to make these outrageous
decisions and play choices. But now that you're reminding me

(01:00:51):
of Graveyard Shift too, what I loved about that was
off the top of my head, I played more mean
than I did almost any film. I let myself alone
almost entirely in that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
And I mean, horror films are fast paced the way
they're filmed, But also you are nuts Landing. I'm a
huge soap fan. I watched a lot. I watched a
couple of your episodes. What did you did you enjoy
working on the soap and were they filmed faster than
the horror films?

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Easiest money I ever made.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
Really, And we can on back it if you want,
but I am telling you it was just you get
paid because it was even though it was a last
gasp if you want to be reductive.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
But it's been on a long time, and so you
get well paid and the work is and I'm just
old enough to remember real time filming of soaps.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Yeah, and you were in a nighttime soap, so did
they take a little more time?

Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
You got to reshoot. That's my point. It's like the
stress levels really down. So you're doing soap material, you
get to do reshoots, you get well paid, you're working
because there's so many storylines, two or three days a week,
three days a week, whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Oh and you had like a really good storyline, like
you were dating that the blonde haired guy's daughter, and
like then you left her and then you were giving
up the company. And I had totally enjoyed your storyline.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Oh good, that's very good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
And I have to ask this. Did you continue to
watch not Slanding when you left the show?

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
If I did, it was just you know, occasionally to
check in. It wasn't It wasn't so that. It's not
really that I got hooked to the show and started
watching it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
You weren't addicted to soaps.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
I loved working on soaps. I did loving and I
did one life to Live and I did not Landing
oh awesome. So I didn't do a lot of time
on them, but they were continuing characters so over the
length of time that I was, you know, doing a

(01:03:03):
professional But no, no, I didn't. I would. I would
watch it to reminisce.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
It's on Prime, you can watch it, you know what season.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
So I'm not a big soap fan, but because of
doing this podcast with Tim, he's introduced me to certain
episodes and things. And one thing I will say about
soaps is that I feel like the plot of blood
Rage with the twins the bad and the good one
would be perfect for a soap opera like I feel
like that would be a soap opera like Gold having
the two twins and one bad one good kind of thing.

(01:03:34):
Yeah yeah, and Terry on nuts Land Cought and Terry
on the Bold and the Beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:03:41):
The problem with blood Rage is that I didn't realize it,
but Louise gets killed and she would be too old
the mother and Terry gets killed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
But did we see Terry. We don't know, Maybe he
survived the shows.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Anything can happen in the world of soaps and horror
films exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
So just a few more questions before we wrap up. Mark.
I read that over the last decade or so, you've
done some one man shows, and I was wondering, can
you tell us about these? And are you still doing
theater today? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
And yes did I did? I don't know if it's
interesting to listen at all. I did an Age of
an Age of Angels, one person show. I did Tntra
La Part one and two, and oh my god, I
wrote and directed I'm miss Communism and I think I'm

(01:04:36):
missing one.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
There was a James Bond something in the title.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Oh yes, and that I know why I'm dropping that
the last James Bond and the Final Mission Won six,
which I wrote before James Bond was announced that it
was the last film Greg and before the forty seventh
President announced that he was running for office. And I

(01:05:06):
just got the gestalt. I just got the moment. I
got the cultural moment. But it is it is a poem,
long form that was written to be read. It's a
tough genre. It's tough to sell, so it was kind
of I got to put it on its feet. I
didn't even get it filmed. The project was kind of

(01:05:28):
fell apart. It was during COVID. COVID kept starting and
stopping it. But I was working on that. When I
did one of the interviews, I remember that now they asked,
what are you working on? I was working on that.
That's why I didn't think of it. I bet that's
the other one person show I was trying to remember,
because it's not really a one person show. It's really

(01:05:50):
a poem. It's a lot to ask people to sit
through it. You know. I had music accompanying it, and
so those are the yeah, the one person shows.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Any any theater you're doing today or you're are you
planning on projects?

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
I'm working on projects. I have a play that I
wrote back in the early eighties about the god you know,
I'm gonna sound so feet, about the industrialization of Americas
and this fictitious steel town. It's called High Torque Line.
But when you pick it up, it is so dated

(01:06:27):
because of the combination of that world, that macho ball clanging,
you know, steel workers thing that is in our polarized era.
It's so and then a high school girl that he
barely remembers, and she's become successful in high finance anyway.

(01:06:48):
She wanders into local bar back so I'm working on
the deconstructed high torque line because it is in the
theater world in LA and New York. If you put
that on, trying to put that on its feet, as
is it just now thirty years later whatever, It's just

(01:07:10):
our culture is just so. So that's one thing and
the other thing is I don't I wasn't prepared. I'm
working on I forget. It'll come to me in a second.
But I'm working on two other pieces. One is called Jerry,
which is about somebody going back to revisit his therapy

(01:07:33):
thirty years after with the therapist, and the other one
is so I'm working on them and working on them
with people to see about. You got to have a
I always have something going in order to get stuff

(01:07:53):
that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
And would you ever do a horror movie convention?

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
I haven't yet, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Sh I really think you should. You would get a
lot of fans that would come up.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
We'll tell it's not a lot of it's that you know,
it's a different world. You know this is contained. You're great.
You're getting along.

Speaker 4 (01:08:15):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:16):
We love stuff. People love stuff, get along. We love
stuff that we both are involved in. We get along.
But that's a different not a world that I feel
really really comfortable, and so I have to make a
leap of faith. And it's just logistics too.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah, I will say this, We've in all the people
we've talked to, We've talked to some people who were
a little hesitant at first to do conventions, and then
some people said when they finally did their first one,
they were so pleasantly surprised about how much fun they
had and just how much love there was from these
horror fans. Because you know, as part of as you know,
we consider ourselves horror fans too. The horror community very loyal,

(01:08:55):
just very appreciative, and I think people a lot of
actors who think it may be a little creep being weird,
are pleasantly surprised at all the love they receive at
these conventions.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
I don't think it's the creepy in the thing. I
almost feel like I'm I'm interloper a bit. But it's
really there's a strangeness to it. It's it's not familiar
territory to me. I have a really simple sense. I
just think that people who naturally just love this, you know.
I have a dear friend who just loves this stuff

(01:09:27):
and it's more natural for her, So if she were
to appear in one, I think it would be more
natural for her to go to the conventions. Well, but
I think it I take I heard you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Yeah, yeah, and I think you mentioned this when we
talked about a blood Rage too. But would you be
willing to star in another horror movie today, blood Rage
two or not?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Yeah, I said earlier. I mean there's all you know,
set dynamics and all that stuff is side. I mean,
it's about the work and you just get to make
It's it's a fun world in habit. Just get to
make these It's it's a fun world to what.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Have you been back to where they filmed the complex?
Have you been back there since filming?

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
Oh? No, I haven't been back to Jacksonville, Florida. No. No,
I mean if I was in the neighborhood, that would
be a great idea. I have. I actually flew into,
uh for yoga events in where is it Lake Wales
or something Florida. But if I had time or something,

(01:10:37):
that's a great idea. But no, I haven't that that
actually would be fun film.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Yeah, oh yeah, you're walking around the I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
Mean, my god, what's there. I mean, it's it's the
fast foot it was. It's a long time ago, but
it's a fast food capital of the world. It is,
I believe I didn't have very much time off, but
I said, what does this mean? The fast food capital
of the world. So I got somebody. We drove down
and started counting, just counting the numbers, and we were

(01:11:07):
laughing because there were these stores we never heard of.
I mean half of them had names you never heard of.
It was the fast food capital Healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
So, Mark, we have one final question for you, and
we asked this to every single person we interview, and
it kind of puts you on the spot a little bit.
But well, you know, you've given us a few tidbits
that would count for this already. But what is one thing,
just one thing you can tell us about your experience
working on blood rage that you've never told any other interviewer, publication, podcaster,

(01:11:42):
you never told the Blu Ray interview. Just one thing
about your experience working on blood rage that you've never
told in an interview before.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
I already had one, and then I dropped it because
I don't say things that could be interpreted as needlessly
negative It's not needlessly negative because it wasn't about their
acting per se. They cast two people in the skin

(01:12:09):
I'll keep it general trade, thinking that they would be
more comfortable of filming explicit sexual material, and that aspect
of it backfire completely and it was kind of fascinating.
Their acting was fine, but when it came to taking

(01:12:31):
their clothes off and they were willing to shoot different versions,
like they were pushing, you know, how far are we go?
But when it came to actually doing this sex business,
which is they thought will be a leg up, this
will be really smart cast it did. It didn't work.

(01:12:52):
Why it didn't work is kind of interesting. I even
talked to them about it afterwards about why that was
so weird when and that's the world they worked in.
But the most I could get was a sense that
that was a different world in the acting world.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Yeah, it was an eighties staple, but I mean, I
don't really yeah, I don't think it added or subtracted anything.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
Ended up also not being that explicit. Versions I saw
were that explicit. They kept trying to get me to
show my heiney crack, and they try to get more
and more down to to you know, uh, you know,
genital on screen. Genital on screen, which is fair enough.
I mean, come on, we're seeing all the women's breasts
and everything. I mean, it's totally fair. Is fairer people,

(01:13:40):
But I just I for more fun than anything. I
refused to do it. So I got the smallest swimsuit
I could find, which I ended up wearing actually on
vacation in Saint Martin.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
I just like hearing you say, Heini crack, we have
not heard yet.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
The smallest suit I can get, and I'll be damned.
I kept hearing catching a suit, catching a suit from
the DP because I don't remember why. You'd have to
ask Canter that she may not even remember it. But
I just felt like maybe it was different in the eighties.
They were pushing some kind of RX thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
You know what's funny about the sex scenes in blood
Rages that like on the diving board, they're just literally
laying on top of each other like nothing is going on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
In the eighties, any kind of nudity was like whoa scandalous?

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
No. The whole point of that seat of that was
that the acting was for me, and they were fine
working together as actors. Something happened when they took their
clothes off. That was opposite what they did in life.
That was the point of the story.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
No, no, that's a good story. But I can see it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
I didn't want to make sure it doesn't sound to
anybody that, Yeah, no.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Her goal is to party.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
She liked to party. It was no, it was fine.
I mean, they definitely do a lot of nudity and
blood Rage, especially like that shower scene, but you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
Don't think it has that much nudity.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Really the show, well, they but the sex is very tame,
very tame.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
I think so too. And I think I sure got
the idea of what they were going for because you
can always end it back. Yeah, you always had it
around it and maybe nobody knew what the limits were
really at that time. I don't remember. I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
I think my big takeaway as a kid when I
saw blood Rage is when he got his hand cut off,
he was still holding the beer, and I was that
is creative. I've never seen that before, Like he's like,
I'm not letting go of that beer.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
And was that on purpose? Did somebody go this is
going to be a you know, I don't remember. I
love it very interesting, huh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
I love it. It's these moments that we that make
Blood Rage the movie that it is today, and you know,
it's such so popular and Mark, we're so grateful that
you took the time to chat with us. We had
such a blast talking with you about this movie and
just you know, hearing all of your stories. Thank you
so much, seriously, we really enjoyed this completely.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
Completely my pleasure. I had so much fun. Thank you
for the invite.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Of course, of course, and we will definitely be in touch.
We hope that in the future we do see you
in another horror movie or maybe at a horror convention.
We'll see you, know, Okay, okay, well take care, enjoy
the rest of your afternoon, and we'll be in.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Touch, all right, all right, thanks meeting you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Bye, Mark, good to meet you both. Yep, take care bye.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Happy Horror Time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
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slash Happy Horror Time. As a patron, you get access
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(01:17:04):
and the chance to review a film with us in
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Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Patrons also get all our regular episodes ad free and
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Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
I'm Matt Emmerts and I'm Tim Murdoch, and we hope
you have a happy Horror Time