Ep 276: Interview w/Andrew Grevas, Author of “Horror in Haddonfield”

Releasing this week, Andrew Grevas’ new book on the “Halloween” franchise combines essays about the various eras and timelines with 25 cast and crew interviews across the 13 films. Tune in to hear all about writing “Horror in Haddonfield: The Untold Stories of Halloween,” the conflicting accounts he received from the various writers of “Halloween 4,” how Andrew’s feelings toward the Rob Zombie films have evolved, and what he’d like to see from the franchise in the future.

You can order “Horror in Haddonfield: The Untold Stories of Halloween” here:
https://www.amazon.com/Horror-Haddonfield-Halloweens-Untold-Stories/dp/1959748300

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello, Welcome to Happy Horrid Time. My name is Tim Murdoch.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And my name is Matt Emmert. Today's special guest wrote
a new book on the Halloween franchise that's officially releasing
this week. It's called Horror in Haddenfield, The Untold Stories
of Halloween, and it includes interviews with twenty five cast
and crew members across the thirteen films, essays about the
various eras and timelines within the franchise, and even reveals

(00:35):
some scenes and plot lines that never made it to
the screen. So basically everything that I, as a diehard
Halloween fan, was ecstatic to read about. And I was
so honored that this author even included a quote for
me in this book about the impact the original Halloween
had on my life. Please welcome to the podcast. The
author of Horror in Haddenfield The Untold Stories of Halloween,

(00:59):
Andrew Green of us. Hey, I'm going.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
That was a tremendous introduction that I don't think I
can top it. Interview over.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Thank you everyone, No, no, well, congratulations on the release
this book. I'm so glad you picked the best franchise
to write about him. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Let me just clarify it I love Halloween. I love
Halloween so much so, but frid thirteenth is like just
one percent more.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
I was about to interrupt. As a longtime listener, I
knew they were a Friday the thirteenth, guys, So I
cannot possibly top Peter Brack's book Crystal Lake Memories. So
I couldn't do it. Should not be attempted. That's a
national treasure. But hopefully my Halloween book can kind of
fill in the space for this franchise.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, and you know, before we dive into the book specifically,
we wanted to get to know a little bit more
about you, Like where are you from and how did
you originally first become interested in journalism?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Midwestern born and raised. I've lived in Cincinnati my entire life.
I like to joke that it is a very had
and field like, so when you're walking down the street
this time of year, it's dark and it's spooky, and
you just feel like you're in Adenfield. But I became interested
in all things spooky at a really young age. My

(02:16):
mom was watching this television show. I was about five
years old, and I had seen the commercials for it.
I was scared, you know, it was David Lynch and
Mark Cross Twin Peaks as they were. The commercial said
it's a nice place to live, but you wouldn't want
to die there, and as a five year old, I
was terrified. I was like, what does this mean? Why

(02:36):
is my mom watching this show? And for those who
haven't seen it, it's a nighttime so mixed with David
Lynch's quirkiness, and it's also a murder mystery, so it
has a little bit of everything. But I sat down
with my mom the night of the pilot episode and
just kind of curled up next to her on the
couch and she didn't make me leave, and I was like, Okay,

(02:58):
I'm going to do this every week. And I realized
that I liked being scared. And shortly after I watched
Halloween for the first time with a cousin of mine.
He had a VHS copy in his basement with kind
of snuck downstairs when the adults weren't looking, and we
watched Halloween like most people do, watching or that you're
not supposed to. And I was kind of off to
the races at that point as a very young child.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Wow, that was Twin Peaks, right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
When Twin Peaks started it and Halloween was second, So.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, I loved. I remember running out and getting like
the tape audio.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Cassette to listen to the music movement. Oh, the soundtrack
is good and it's creepy.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
And Halloween both hadndo's the most amazing scores and they do.
How did you become a pro wrestling commentator?

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Got me? So I was going to school for journalism
and I'd got in this huge fight with a professor
and it was about ethics, and he essentially told me
that if I wasn't willing to bend the rules a
little bit, I was never going to make it in
this business. And I was just twenty twenty one something
like that, and I was just floored. It was devastated.

(04:04):
And I went to a sports bar and I was
just drinking. I was just totally destroyed, and I was
like on the verge of tiers. You know. All I
wanted to do was be a journalist, and here I
was thinking that it wasn't going to happen. And I
ran into a buddy of mine that I grew up with,
and he was working in the pro wrestling industry, and
he's like, if you really want to try to do

(04:25):
something journalism related, like I can get you some work,
and you know, I kind of like wipe the tears
and I was like, really and the rest is history.
Next thing I know, I'm going to two or three
shows a month, and I'm running a website and I'm
conducting interviews and I'm producing a YouTube show. And it
was my first like fora into the world of journalism.

(04:46):
And it was crazy. You know, it was absolutely crazy.
It's unlike any other form of entertainment, but it is entertainment.
And like the respect that I have for these men
and women who are like not just like having to
create these characters that which draw you in, but the
physicality too, Like it was like nothing else that I've
ever seen. And I owe a great debt of gratitude

(05:08):
to the people in that industry that kind of gave
me my first work.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Were you a fan of wrestling or ww before or
it was kind of like you learned as you went.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
I was, but I wasn't like a diehard, you know,
I wasn't somebody who could sit there and tell you
all these facts. But you know, I had watched it
on TV, my dad watched it, my Grandpaul watched it.
My older brothers watched it, but I was definitely more
into watching Halloween or watching Twin Peaks. You know, my
interests were elsewhere, but I knew enough where I could
carry on a conversation.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So it is that what the rock was cooking.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Eventually, eventually it was awful.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh wow, okay, so we also read and you were
talking about websites, but that you founded the websites twenty
five YL and Horror Obsessive. Can you tell our listeners,
in case they're unfamiliar, a little about each and just
when you started them? Oh, look at that? Are those pillows?

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Those are pillows? So two five WAYL I started. I
was a new father. My son was about two years old,
and I was reading John Thorne, the author's book The
Essential Wrapped in Plastic and it's all about Twin Peaks
and John is the most prolific Twin Peaks scholar that
there is, and it just got my mind going. I

(06:24):
was like, Man, I miss creative writing like that. I'd
been writing a lot of bad fiction stuff that I
would never show anybody, but that type of like television
and film analysis, I really missed. John got the gears
turning Twin Peaks. The Return was about six months away
from airing, and I was like, I'm just going to
start a little blog. I'm going to write for myself,

(06:45):
like I had no intentions of it being a thing.
And within weeks, all these people are like, all right,
for free, like just give me a spot to write weekly,
and I was like okay. And it wasn't like I
was setting out to build something, but I just wanted
to build a place for me to write. And next thing,
I know, other people like this is a cool idea,
and two five Wyl just kind of took off out

(07:07):
of nowhere. And for those that are familiar with Twin Peaks,
and I know we're not here to talk about two Peaks,
but Part eight of the Return was the most mesmerizing
hour of television that I think anybody's seen.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
And then I'm familiar. I'm familiar with all kind of peaks.
I was at older than you. I was ten when
the TV show came on, but I was obsessed.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
To okay, so you're speaking my language. Share that. The
night that part eight aired, I got on Twitter and
I saw somebody say, I can't wait to see what
two five Yl has to say. About this, and I
panicked because I was the one that was going to
have to write about it. And it was this moment
of people are actually reading my work. And I felt

(07:51):
like Damon lindel Off in the first season of Lost
when he had that realization like, oh, this is good
people care. And it was like this panic attack moment
where I like, oh, I'm not just doing this for
me now, I'm doing this for people who want to
read my work. The year of the pandemic two five,
YL was still rolling around along. We started in twenty
seventeen and we started up Horror of Us if we

(08:14):
had a lot of writers on staff by that point.
We loved horror, obviously I did, and it just kind
of became a natural thing, like let's build a separate
website where these guys can just go crazy. And it
was reviews, essays, analysis, interviews, you name it, anything that
a horror fan want. And I did sell the website
in twenty twenty two, which was crazy that somebody wanted

(08:37):
to buy this thing that I had built. And that
was around the time that I started working on the book.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's so cool, It's blaring, well, yeah, exactly. To have
built something that again enough people are interested in that
it becomes a thing, and then it's something you can sell.
That's really amazing. Rats. So okay, thank you. Since you
love Halloween as much as I do, or as much
as we do, have to get your thoughts on a
couple franchise related quick questions. Okay, what are your top

(09:05):
three films in the Halloween series?

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Can I do four?

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Okay? Because of my controversial is number four, nineteen seventy eight.
Obviously it's number one, into one of my eleven perfect
horror films. You're never going to beat the original. A
season of the Witch is number two for me. I
know that's controversial for many, but I'm a diard fate
of that film. Halloween four clucks into my third spot,

(09:31):
and then Halloween Ends let's discuss.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh oh oh like yeah, like that's kind of I
feel like Tim's right. I love I love four, and
he loves Halloween Ends. I love four. I did not
like Halloween Ends. I like, I'll just tell you what
my to me as a standalone movie, I can see

(09:56):
the merit in it, and I do see like the
the uh what it was, the point it was trying
to make, and I can see that being impactful for
me glowing into the trilogy and wanting that final confrontation
between Laurie and Michael. I wanted more than just the
last ten minutes. I wanted the whole movie to be
about him coming back to get here. And I know

(10:18):
a lot of people say, well, that would just be
a retread of twenty eighteen and stuff, But like, if
it's the last movie I'm going to get Jamielee Curtison
with Michael Myers. I didn't want the focus to be
off her. That's really my only thoughts. But number one
is my diehard favorite, and yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
That's a very understandable position. You know, I can never
refute anybody when they have those feelings about how Leen ends.
For me, it's a sexy, stylish, daring film that I
can just like watch frames of it and capture a
mood and it's different. Paul brad Logan, the writer of

(10:54):
the film I interviewed for the book, one of my
favorite interviews in the whole book, the way that he
described the town of Haddenfield had been through this trauma
in twenty eighteen and then Kills and Ends was supposed
to be what does a setting look like after trauma
has happened. What did New Orleans look like after Hurricane

(11:14):
Katrina kind of thing, And that really got my mind going.
I loved that they showed that hadden't Field turned against
one another. They did not come together, like let's help
rebuild houses and be good neighbors. It was the opposite.
They were finger pointing. They were looking at their neighbor like,
I don't trust you anymore. You might be the next
Michael Myers. This town was destroyed, certainly an analogy that

(11:38):
we could make for society today. You know, we could
veer into other topics and other streams of thought. But
I loved how bleak it was, and I loved that
we create monsters. Corey was a created monster. He wasn't
born bad. He wasn't Ted Bundy, he wasn't Jeffrey Dahmer
was of Thorn. He was definitely not part of the

(12:00):
course there, you know, but society created him. Hadd'tfield made
him a monster. And when you look at the first
three Halloween films one two, in Season of the Witch
and you compare it to the Bloemhouse trilogy, the overlap
is outstanding. You know, Halloween one and twenty eighteen, like
their mirror images Halloween two and Halloween Kills. Like it's

(12:22):
almost comical how much they have in common. They're both
in a hospital for three fourths of the film. Jamie
Lee Curtis is literally in a hospital bed for most
of the movie. The town is like up in arms
and chaos is ensuing, but ends to me was trying
to learn from the mistakes of Season of the Witch.
How do you remove Michael Myers from the story without

(12:43):
being so abrupt? And I don't know that. I just
appreciated it for how daring it was not.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
So good, definitely daring.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
And which do you prefer Lauri being Michael's brother or not?

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I go both ways. You know, there's time and I
think it just depends on that I'm in. I can
appreciate it for what it is. But I kind of
like the idea of Michael being a killer without motivation,
you know, like the Blomhouse trilogy. He's just after her
for who knows what reason.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
That's scar to me, like the intention of the first movie.
I mean, that wasn't in John Carpenter or Debora Hill's
mind when they wrote the first movie. She just happened
to drop the key off at the mic at the
Meyers place, and he saw her and fixated on her
because she reminded of his sister. Yeah, I kind of
see both. I think I sort of prefer him the
sister brother connection because it's interesting and it gives him

(13:35):
a motive. But at the same time, not having a
motive is scarier. If you could bring back one character
that was killed off in any of the movies, who
would it be?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Should I say, besides Jamie Lloyd? Or is that a given?

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Uh? Okay, besides Jami Lloyd because I want to hear you.
Number two.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Probably Rachel.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, Oh my gosh, I know I love Rachel so much.
That roof seems amazing. What is your favorite overall kill
in all of the movies?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
That is a tough one. But Adam ark and and
H two O like it does not get There's a
lot we can say about that scene.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
It's like either I'm gonna do it orl I know,
I love it because it just comes out of nowhere,
Like you think, when it's down to her and him
and he trying to be like, oh, I'll protect you, Laurie,
and well happened. All he did was shoot ellow cool
Jay and get skied, but it wasn't good.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Oh no, no, your turn to do the Adam And
then he's like, looking down at her, it's it's yeah,
it's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Okay. So moving on to the book, how did the
whole project get started and how did you decide on
the format of combining interviews with personal accounts of the films.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
So I was talking to my friend Scott Ryan, whose
company published the book, and I had written for his
magazine years ago. We were good friends, and he was
kind of investing with me. He's like, when are you
going to leave the websites behind and write a book?
He's like, it's time. And I started coming up with
a few ideas and I had three and Halloween was
obviously one of the three. It was right before Ends

(15:17):
came out, so like we're talking three or four weeks
before Ends was released, and I was talking to my
wife and my wife was kind of pushing me towards Halloween.
She's like, this is the one, and I can tell
you're the most passionate about when you're describing these ideas.
But I was a little afraid, like what about if
I really dislike Ends? Like do. I still want to

(15:37):
do this book. And I had the contract offer sitting there,
and I told Scott. I was like, let me watch
Halloween Ends. If I like it, I'll sign the contract tomorrow.
If I don't like it, let me pitch you these
other two ideas. Obviously I loved Ends, so I signed
the contract the next day, and the format was changing
over time. Originally the book was going to be much

(16:00):
more SA heavy. It was going to be much more
like pseudo intellectual bullshit than most people probably would have hated.
But that's where my mind was at, like I'm going
to deep dive this franchise and it'll be scholarly. And
I started thinking like, no, I need to talk to
some of the cast and crew, like interviews are something
I'm passionate about. And Stacy Nelkin was the first interview

(16:20):
and I set upstairs in my bedroom on the phone
with her and I had the best time, you know,
just literally sitting on the phone talking to her, and
I'm thinking, like, I need to do more of this.
Her stories got me going and she's making me laugh
and I'll tell you a funny story I told her
at the beginning. I was like, you're my first interview
and she's like, so taking your virginity today, hun kid,

(16:42):
and I started cracking up laughing, and I felt at ease,
and I was like, this is what I'm supposed to
be doing for this book is talking to people. Dan
Farns was the second interview, and I had known Dan Pryor.
I hit him up and I was like, hey, remember me,
And we had this great conversation and I was like, Okay,
I'm supposed to be doing more interviews than just a handful,

(17:05):
which was the original premise, and I was kind of
off to the races. Dwight Little was one of the
original interviews, and him and I got along great. He's
originally from Cleveland, I'm from Cincinnati's we kind of got
the Ohio thing going on. And we hit it off.
And he's talking to me about writing a book, and
he's giving me his experiences on writing his book, and

(17:26):
he's like, let me know if you struggle to get
a hold of the rest of Halloween Forecast and crew.
He was like, okay. So I talked to Ellie a
few months later, had a great conversation with her, and
she's just the coolest. And I reached out to Dwight,
and I was like, Hey, so far, it's just the
two you and Ellie that I've talked to, and he's like,

(17:46):
hold on a minute. Sends out an email to Alan
McElroy and Daniel Harris and he's like, talk to Andrew.
He's awesome. I really want Halloween four to have a
big presence in this book. Minutes later, email responses from
the two of them, and those interviews are set up.
I'm on the phone. I'm on the phone with Danielle
and I'm sitting at my kitchen table and I'll break

(18:08):
the fourth wall a little bit here. We're both parents
and we're talking about kid stuff, and my interview style
like I'm not just talking to me about the questions.
I'm building a friendship with you. And her kid gets
sick at school and she's like, give me five minutes.
I got to get a hold of my husband. He's
got to go pick up my son. And we're just
kind of shooting the shit a little bit, and she's like,
do you get me a text Scout? And she texts

(18:28):
Scout right there on the spot, and then next thing
you know, I'm talking to Scout. And it was that
kind of thing where, you know, I don't want to
sound egotistical like I was such a great journalist that
people were giving me contacts, But I was being normal
and building friendships and I don't know, kind of dropping
the guard a little bit. Next thing, I know, like,
all these cool interviews are coming my way.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
And as a fellow Ohioan, did you reach out to
Jamie Lee Curtis or John Carpenter or I.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Did their tried?

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, all right, I put something out on Facebook a
little while ago that I reached out.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Somebody gave me a three star review on Amazon for
the book because I didn't interview Jamie, John or Rob Zombie,
And I said on Facebook like, hey, I tried. One
of them wanted a free copy of the book and
said no. One of their publicists yelled at me, and
one of them was definitely interested. But I'm not naming names.
I'm gonna name.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Names to leave. I need to know who did what.
Yeah go.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
John's manager asked for the free copy of the book,
said he wasn't interested, but he's like, if you want
to CineMo copy of the book, it'd be awesome. Rob
Zombie strongly considered it, but I didn't want to think
a little too much scar tissue there, and Jamie Curtis's
publicist snapped at me for.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Asking snapped it. You just said, like, how dare you
ask like that?

Speaker 3 (19:51):
She's talked about it too many times.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
But if you've done seven films, there's a lot to say.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah, that's the thing, and also like I'm sure when
we get to the fiftieth anniversary, like there'll be more
conversations to be had. So that's unfortunate, But look for
listeners out there. Andrew's book, he talks with so many
really important people in both cast and crew functions across

(20:17):
the films. Yes, there may not be a Jamie Lee
or a John Carpenter, but like, that doesn't mean that
you spoke with Dean Condy, the director of photographer on
the photography on the first three Halloween films, so many
people in the middle films, people on the Blumhouse trilogy.
You even had Sean Clark and Anthony Mossi who were
involved the conventions and documentaries, the writers of the Taking

(20:37):
Shape book. That so there's just a lot of stuff
to learn in this book. Without interviews from Jamie Lee
and John.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Kaper, you can get a John Carpenter Jamie Lee Curtis interview,
but the people that you interviewed, you go more in depth,
so I feel like it's a win win.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
That's how I felt when I got Danielle to say yes.
I had this feeling got my big name, you know,
because when you think about the Halloween franchise, like she's
up there with them, like her importance to the franchises
up there, and I didn't feel that pressure to have
John or Jamie anymore. It was Okay, sure, I would
have loved to have them, but I have an eight

(21:15):
thousand interview with Danielle Harris that has its own chapter. Yeah,
and to me, like that was everything that I wanted
it to be. The Dean Coundy interview, Like he's literally
an encyclopedia film. That man can tell you anything you
want to know about this industry. Chris Durand, who played
Michael Myers in H two, Oh, it was like film
school talking to him. The way he's explaining these stunts

(21:38):
to me and how things were performed. I'm just sitting
there like learning, you know, as he's talking. And Brad
Lauriie was the same way. He's a really funny guy.
He was kind of the opposite of Chris, who was
a little bit more serious. But Brad's like cracking me up,
but at the same time he's educating me on how
things are done. And there's kind of a little bit

(22:01):
of a three ring circus effect to the book. You know,
there's some interviews that are heartfelt and a little bit
more emotional, and then there's other that are hysterical, some
of them are dramatic, and there's a little bit of
everything in there.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Yeah, you know, so if you don't mind, there's some
specific sections of the book that we'd like to ask
you about, just to like whether to elaborate on your
thoughts or what you you know, your personal feelings on
what were they were saying. But one of the things
I noticed when you spoke with Tom Atkins and Stacy
Nelkin about Halloween three season the which you mentioned that
there were multiple times that there were three versions of

(22:34):
the script for this film, but both of them weren't
very familiar with those variations. So I've got to ask,
do you know or did you learn from maybe like
the Taking the Taking Shape authors, what the differences between
those three scripts were.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
So the there is the first version, which I think
is discussed a little bit more. That's the one that's
we've heard more about, you know. But the second version
is kind of the elusive one. That's the one that
John car Under helped a little bit with before Tommy
Lee Wallace just took over and gave us the finished product.
It was unfortunate that nobody was familiar with either of those.

(23:09):
The Taking Shape guys obviously did a great job of
going over it, but the big thing was the second
and third versions of the script made it a little
bit more scary, a little bit more blood, a little
bit more modern, and kind of stepped away from the
just being a sci fi film.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Okay, that makes sense. I'm thinking about because when it
comes to season the Witch, the woman in the hotel
room gets killed and the family other than the guy
in the beginning, but it doesn't have a large body count,
I mean, like are weight am I thinking of the
scene at the end though, But.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
There's kind of a lot of like robots that if
I remember correctly.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
There are a lot of robots that are killed, you know.
Tommy Lee Walls was responsible for a lot of that,
you know, just trying to make it feel like an
eighties horror film and not so much just like a
film as they described it to me.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. So something I was
really surprised to hear conflicting accounts about were from Alan McElroy,
the writer of Halloween four, and Shem Bitterman, who wrote
an early draft of the script but got no credit. Now,
Adam was very adamant that almost everything that ended up
on screen came from him, his words. But then Shem

(24:22):
literally sent you an arbitration statement which listed out like
tons of specific scenes that were actually used in the film.
So I gotta know what do you make of that
whole situation? And how come Shem never finished his interview
with you? Two part question, Andrew.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
We'll start with the second part. First, he got busy,
he was finishing a film and his schedule just picked up.
I was trying to get hold of him. He wanted
to read his scripts for Halloween four and Halloween five,
and that was he was like, let me read them.
I'll feel a little bit more up to date with
what I wrote twenty something years ago. And he's like,
and then old talk. He never got to so it

(25:02):
was just a scheduling thing. Same with like James G. Courtney,
for example. He's obviously not in the book, but we
were going up until the last day that I submitted,
trying to find time for him to be in the book.
So it's unfortunate, but you know, I would love to
finish that conversation with Shem that I think the first
part of your question is probably the most controversial part

(25:22):
of the book. I did not know that. You know,
Shem threw me for a loop when he's telling me
these things and he's like, I'll send you the arbitration
letter right now, And I was like, okay, like can
I please run this? And he's like, yeah, of course.
So I had this full blessing to put it in there.
I don't know, I mean you the arbitration letter kind
of puts it right there in black and white. He

(25:44):
wrote these things. You know, Alan's memory and Dwight's memory
were that they did not like anything scripted prior to
them coming on, and they threw it away. But maybe
it's a case of bad memories. Maybe it's a case
of their ideas were more similar than they thought. I
don't know. I don't want to be the judge of that,

(26:04):
but Shem's arbitration letter does kind of put everything out.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
There drama mad No. I was shocked as a fan.
I never I knew about the early drafts, and I
knew that they supposedly had not taken much from it.
But when I read Shem's arbitration letter in your book,
and I'm so glad that you included it, I was like,
this guy has got the receipts. Okay. So we're huge

(26:29):
fans of Donald Pleasants. I mean, he's such an icon
obviously in this franchise. Something I thought was kind of
funny was how Kathleen Kinman, who played Kelly Meeker and
Halloween four, said that Donald Pleasants would get pretty toasty
on set aka buzz. So I've got to ask, did
you hear that from anyone else who who worked with
Donald Pleasants other Halloween films or do you think that
was just like a Halloween four thing?

Speaker 3 (26:51):
I asked several other people because I was like, I
need to confirm this. Everyone else said no, I don't
think so. Marian Hagen was like the most adamant. He
was not drinking on set, obviously, he was closer to
the end of his life on curse. I made two
different time periods in a sense, but nobody else backed
up Kathleen's story. I have no reason to not believe

(27:12):
her though. You know, Kathleen is such a sweetheart. She
was in the hospital on the phone with me her
aunt or great aunt, I don't recall, was ill, and
she's like in there visiting her and she's like, I'm
gonna go call Andrew real quick. And she's on the
phone with me and she's in like the hospital like
waiting room or like lounge area, doing an interview with me.

(27:34):
And then she's like walking out to her car to
finish it. And I was like, are you sure you
don't want to do this tomorrow. She's like, oh no,
I'll be back here tomorrow anyway, Like let's just do
it now.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
The sweetest And I think that, to be honest, like
I'm sure her story is correct, Like I'm sure that
on that movie, he was more. He was kind of,
you know, like everyone's at the veterans so he could
kind of do whatever the fuck he wanted like that exactly.
I'd break a couple of drinks into the set too.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, and if anybody wouldn't notice, I think it would
be her. You know, she was not you know, the
cast was all young. She was like twenty twenty one
something like that at the time. But she would have noticed,
you know, whereas Daniel Harris might not have noticed because
of her age.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
And did you get the feeling that Ellie Cornell was
pretty upset about being killed off so early in Halloween five?

Speaker 3 (28:22):
Yes, she was. I think she was unhappy about a
lot in Halloween five. She made it clear to me
that she expected to die in Halloween five. But she
did not like the film and she did not like
how her death was handled. So I think she would
have liked to have done a little bit more, maybe
had more of an impact on that film, and for
the film to have been different. But Halloween five is

(28:45):
a controversial one just because how totally different it is
from the prior film and Ellie.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
I was just gonna say, as a kid, it's such
a bummer to see her up in the attic, just dead,
and like little Jamie has to see her on Oh.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
I remember, by the way, for my saw Halloween one first,
but I and then saw two, and then I rented
four and five. I skipped three because I was like
I'm not watching anything without Michael Myers. I was one
of those idiot kids. Of course, I've come to appreciate
that film, but I remember I watched four and five
back to back, and I loved four and like the
sister stuff, and then five, I'm like, yes, they're both back,

(29:18):
and then I was like, did she I was like
holding out hope. I'm like, he only stabbed her in
the scissors. She's alive, She's gonna come back at the end,
and then she's not. Well.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
She does come back at the end, but lay there down.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah. Well, speaking of the tonal differences, I'm Halloween five.
Director Dominique Othen and Gerard mentioned how he really pushed
Donald Pleasants to be tough on poor little Jamie Lloyd
in this film as a way of evolving that character,
and apparently Donald was not happy because he didn't think
Doctor Loomis would act like that. What are your thoughts
on how doctor Loomis treated Jamie in Part five? Do

(29:50):
you think it was out of character for him?

Speaker 3 (29:52):
It was definitely out a character. I pressed Dominique on that,
and I mean, you saw his responses in the book.
I don't think anybody likes that trail of Litmus in five.
I don't know anybody that's comfortable with it. It's it's harsh.
You know, he's like shaking children. Nobody wants that. Don't
shake the baby. We don't do that. But and get

(30:12):
where Dummenique was coming from, Like, you do want characters
to evolve. You don't want it to be the same
thing you've seen multiple times. But could they have done
in a different way? I think so. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
So most fans know about the constant rewrites and reshoots
that plagued the production of Halloween, the Curse of Michael Myers,
and I always thought that it was, you know, mostly
because of the studio and the Weinsteins, that they were
the problem. But in your interview with Mary Anne Hagen,
she mentioned some ill feelings toward the director, Joe Chappelle.
Now do you think Joe maybe it kind of My

(30:44):
interpretation was he didn't sound like he was that excited
about directing a film called Halloween six. So I'm just
wondering what were your thoughts on that, because he also
didn't respond to your request to interview him, right, I.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Did try multiple times to get Joe. Joe's kind of
like that white whale, Like everybody wants to talk to Joe.
I like the Taking Shape authors Travis Mullins, for example,
Him and I had a whole conversation about how we
could both stop writing books about Halloween if we were
to be able to interview Joe Chappelle, Like he's that
elusive everybody wants to know, like what was on his

(31:20):
brain during that film. Dan Farren's points out that Joe's
not a bad guy. I think Joe's image has taken
a beating over the years, And maybe that's not to
diminish Marianne's feelings, but I think Dan parad some levity
to it. You know, Joe was in a tough situation.
He had some cruel bosses that he was working for,

(31:40):
and he was trying to build a career. So it's
a tough situation to be in. That being said, I
don't think he wanted to direct a film called Halloween six.
And I have a friend who met Joe on a
film set. He shoots mostly episodic television now and my
friend asks somebody, the kay is that Joe Chappelle from Halloween?

(32:01):
And Joe literally ran and avoided this friend of mine
So that's an off the record story I got from
somebody who's not involved with Halloween.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
But oh, I please share that anything you want to
share that was off the record on the book with that, please,
we love that. I'm thinking though, Joe Chappelle doesn't mind
it when he's cashing in those residual checks. Am I right?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
I just this has nothing to do with the book
or anything. But did you ever see Denise Richard's audition
for Halloween six? Likes Joe Chappelle in the room, Like,
who's in the room talking about her?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
I don't call I just it's John Carpenter. He was like,
you know, one day you've got you've got talent, Denise,
but not for Halloween six.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
I'm so bummed. Denise Richards and everything.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
She was great in Housewives, Oh thank You.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
And Wild Things. Okay, So moving forward chronologically, I'm Robert Zappia,
the credited writer of Halloween h two, talked about how
before Jamie Lee Curtis signed on to that film, his
original script for Halloween seven was called Halloween two Faces
of Evil and it involved both Michael Myers and a
copycat killer. Now this was giving me major Corey Cunningham

(33:15):
and Halloween any vibes, and especially as a fan, how
about you, did this remind you of where they ended
up taking that final installment?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
It made me think about how cyclical this franchise has become.
You know, ideas just keep repeating themselves in one form
or another, whether or noo it's a produced film or
a not produced film like in this case. But you know,
we see that Halloween Kills, for example, gives certain that
the townspeople coming out feels a lot like Halloween four.
Dwight talks about that in his interview. But you're right, like,

(33:46):
there's an overlap of ideas here. But when you have
thirteen films, I suppose that's inevitable where ideas are going
to resurface in one shape or form. But yeah, I
did think that Robert is the nicest guy. I was
told that he had it much worse from the Weinsteins
than anybody else, but he didn't get into that in
the book.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Wow, and which version of Laurie stro do you prefer
h two O Laurie or Halloween twenty eighteen Laurie?

Speaker 3 (34:12):
There's a caveat to that. Are we including resurrection?

Speaker 2 (34:16):
No? I just no, just because I want to know
your well, tell us between the two and then then
give us your resurrection. I'm a caveat.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
I mean, I love that there's these different versions of
the same character. You know. The H two O Laurie
is still strong. She's just battling these demons and she's
trying to suppress everything, and she has this moment when
she sees her son's the same age she was when
she went through all this drama, and she just loses it.
And that's what we see in the second half of

(34:51):
H two O, that realization of I'm not going to
let this happen to him. I'm going to do something.
You know. The Blumhouse trilogy, she's Linda Hamlton from Terminator,
and that's different, you know, but it's enjoyable. So I
don't know, do I like Chocolateman that I like them both,
you know, I appreciate both. The H two O version

(35:12):
is tiger and perhaps a little bit more I don't
I don't know. I struggled to pick a word here,
but the H two version is tighter and perhaps a
more well crafted film. But the Blumhouse trilogy is adventurous
and daring and things that we've talked about earlier. And
I very much appreciate that fairal version of her.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, I mean, I the and I look at H
two Oho. When I saw it, I absolutely loved her
and and I loved her portrayal. I loved how she
portrayed like dealing with something like this. But then I
saw twenty eighteen, and there were scenes in twenty eighteen
where I almost had tears in my eyes because of

(35:54):
Jamie Lee's performance, Like when she's at the restaurant talking
about how she saw the shape and she just wishes
she'd get over it. I was like, oh my god.
I didn't feel almost close to tears watching her H
two portrayal because she's so much more broken in twenty eighteen.
I think some some something about seeing her that broken
and then standing up to him again is why I

(36:14):
think I prefer the twenty eighteen one. But it's tough
because I absolutely love H two Oh, Now, what is
your resurrection caveat?

Speaker 3 (36:23):
I hate how she was killed off in that.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
First scene, don't we all?

Speaker 3 (36:27):
I like her, It was terribly cheese. I'm not the
wig I mean, but the scene is terribly cheesy. Well,
we'll spare the Wig any criticism. I love it, but
I don't know Resurrection had potential. There's things they could

(36:47):
have done with that film. There's things that I appreciate
about that film. You know, I can't sit here and
say that it's a bad movie completely because there are
admirable qualities to it. It didn't pick a lane, though,
you know, how is not a standalone film franchise as
much as we now like Season of the Witch, Halloween
is a no going story. Four feeds into five, which

(37:09):
feeds into six and so on. They attempted to do
a standalone film without setting up a future, and that
was the fable flaw Resurrection. There was tons of great
scripts that came in from talent to writers after Resurrection
that they couldn't pick. They couldn't decigne one, and we
went in the reboot direction. Who to me, one of

(37:29):
the greatest what ifs is what if they had went
with the John Tate sequel that they came close to doing,
or which also would have involved dust to rhymes. You know,
that could have been a fun continuation of Resurrection that
perhaps would have made that version of Glorie started a
little bit more impactful. If we're now seeing her son
move into this role because of what he saw her

(37:49):
go through in H two zero. And to your point
about each two O versus twenty eighteen, I agree twenty
eighteen gave Laurie a little bit more time to breathe.
You know, it wasn't bam bam bam. H two oh
is the shortest film in the franchise, and you don't
get a second to stop and think. You have to
internalize everything after it's over. Twenty eighteen David Gordon Green's

(38:12):
directorial style, you get moments like that where she's at
dinner talking about these things, and you can stop and
think and feel two different styles of filmmaking. Appreciate them both.
The H two O version could have aged better had
there been a better follow up, is my ultimate opinion.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Though. Do you know if they had Josh Hartnet attached
to whatever sequel would have been with John Tator it
was just an idea.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
I think it was just an idea. Yeah, I don't
think it ever got to I don't think it ever
got that far.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
So, speaking of Resurrection, Brad Loray, who played Michael Myers
and Halloween Resurrection, mentioned in your book that there was
one scene or some kind of dialogue that director Rick
Rosenthal was trying to get Jamie Lee Curtis to do
on set, but she flat out said, I'm not doing that.
Let's move on. Did you ever find out what that
dialogue or scene was?

Speaker 3 (38:59):
No, I tried really hard to talk to Rick Rosenthal
and I'm not sure if it was the wrong email
address or what, but never even gotta know. So if
there's a horror and HATTAN feel too, I need to
find the right email address for Rick.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
What do you think he asked you because to do
with resurrexit and she was like, we're not doing that.
Do you think they wanted her to be like alive again?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
No?

Speaker 3 (39:21):
No, I it's like maybe.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Well, I still find it so weird that she like
kisses her brother off.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
She added that in the moment, I feel I don't
know if it's confirmed or not, but it looked like
an improv moment.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
But I'm wondering what do you think they wanted her
to do that? She said, No, they wanted her to
French kiss. Yeah, that's what there it is, Jamie, will
you do this? Okay? So moving on to Rob Zombie's
Halloween remake and Halloween two. Now, I've never been the
biggest fan of these films because of how violent and
grim they are. But you made a really good point
in your book. You said, quote the series was constantly changing,

(39:56):
so why was this visual departure any different? Zombie didn't
shy away from violence, which was par for the course
in the genre as a whole at this time. It
was just something different for this particular franchise. Can you
tell us kind of a little bit more about your
feelings on the Rob Zombie films and how they've evolved
over the years.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
I'm not the biggest fan of the first one, you know.
I think a lot of people that worked on the
two films prefer the first one. Their memories are more
nostalgic on that one. Two for them as more martin
controversy and the onset trauma. For me, I think Too
is a drastically better film. Patrick Lucy and I talked

(40:33):
about that where he in his interview he calls Rob
Zombie's first film like a Netflix documentary about serial killers.
And that's kind of how I felt, you know, it
was different, but not necessarily my cup of tea. The
second film, it was more daring. It was more bold.
And my story about that is that I watched the

(40:54):
film several nights in a row when I was working
on the book because I didn't like Rob Zombie's Halloween
Too at all prior to starting it. I thought it
was terrible, that it was cheesy. I was like, I
just don't get white people like this movie. And I
watched it the first night and I was like, still
don't like it. But I was like, I'm gonna just
give it another chance tomorrow and just see if I

(41:15):
feel any different. Maybe I was in a bad mood,
maybe I was tired from staying up too late working
on this book. Watched the second night, when there were
little things that I was appreciating, I was like, Okay,
well that scene was good. That was good, And out
of pure stubbornness, I watched him a third night in
a row, and I'm starting to have this moment of
clarity where I was like, I get it. Rob Zombie's

(41:36):
Halloween Too is not a film that you should psychoanalyze
the first time you watch it. You should not apply
typical film criticism standards and methodologies to it. You should
let it watch it for you. You should allow it's
much like David Lynch, like feel the film rather than
try to understand the film, And when you get to
a place where you're kind of emotionally in tune with

(41:58):
what he's doing with the trauma setting, then try to
understand the character's motivations. And when I did that, I
became a pretty big fan in the second film, which
is something I never thought I would say prior to
starting work on this book. But it's daring, and it's
out there, and Halloween is a choose your own adventure story,

(42:18):
you know it. Everybody has a different timeline. They prefer
why not have a more violent, more sadistic timeline that
fans of mid two thousand horror can gravitate towards, you know,
fans of like the Saul franchise perhaps, like maybe that
might be like the avenue of Halloween. They prefer It's

(42:39):
not going to be for everybody, but why not. You know,
we've done reboots, and we've done recalibrations, and we've done retcons,
like let's have the Rob Zombie Avenue too.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
And do you think the negativity comes from just Rob
Zombie's Part two being too real?

Speaker 3 (42:56):
Perhaps? But I think Rob Zombie's Halloween too suffered from
the negativity that everybody was hearing about on set. You know,
we're in the internet culture at that point. We're in
the Internet age where everybody's going on social media by
two thousand and nine and hearing stories about what's happening,
and that Rob is erratic and the Weinsteins are overbearing,

(43:21):
and we're hearing these things and we're forming an opinion
before we see the film. It's not to say that
the film is fawless. It's not to say that it
doesn't have characteristics that could be better. Daniel Harris puts
it perfectly, like they flew her back to the set
and they didn't need her, and she immediately got on
a plane and left. It was a chaotic environment. But

(43:41):
sometimes beauty comes out of gas.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
But you know what Octavia Spencer was in that opening
hospital hard. It's so shocking to see her first off
in brob Zobies Holloway two, but then her role is
brute murdered by him in that hospital. Anyway, moving on

(44:04):
to the Blumhouse trilogy, Now, something you mentioned in the
book was that Halloween kills specifically of the three poses,
the idea that perhaps Michael Myers is more myth than man.
Now do you think this kind of thinking was a
departure from the original film or do you think this
is kind of what Doctor Loomis was always alluding to
when he would say, you know, this isn't a man,

(44:24):
or that part of him died years ago.

Speaker 3 (44:27):
I think John Carpenter was always hinting at that in
the first film. Every director and writer after that had
their own ideas, you know, Dominique and Halloween five comes
up and says that he saw him as a man,
but clearly not everybody did. And I think that the
Blumhouse trilogy played around with that concept. Is he human

(44:48):
or is he something more? We're not going to tell
you drawing your own conclusions. Halloween Kills is the most
ambiguous with that. Halloween ends like we literally see him
as an old man, which was shocking, like he's Grandpa
Michael at this point, like you want to ask him
if he's got the candies in his pockets or something
like he's an old man. But Halloween Kills plays around

(45:11):
with this idea like who is he? How is he
able to just reappear and we just saw the town
destroy him, and now he's back and he's killing Judy Greer, Like,
how did this happen? So to answer your question, I
think that John Carpenter asked a question and David Gordon
Green asked it together in a different way.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
Yeah, but no same questions. And I kind of because
I know, like when Halloween Kills Ends came out, some
of the criticism was, you know, okay, Michael's just supposed
to be a flesh and blood killer. But I always think, well, actually,
in the original film, doctor Looms is saying over and
over he's not a man. Human part of him died
all of a sudden. I'm like, it actually, isn't so
crazy that he may be like more than a man

(45:50):
and not such a departure. So you had an entire
chapter in your book dedicated to the various timelines in
the Halloween universe, and I feel like I know the
answer to this question. But if you could pick just
one timeline to see the franchise return to for a sequel,
which would it be.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
I mean there's a lot. I could sit here and
literally make an argument for every single one. Like I'm
going to say the Blowhouse trilogy though.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Oh okay, why because it basically could start fresh.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
It could start fresh and per like, if we've already
read conned out numerous events and timelines, who's to say
that there isn't a re entry point for characters such
as Jamie Lloyd, and after the events of Halloween ends,
it's not out of the realm possibility, like.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
She's been in hiding this whole time and now she's like, oh,
Michael Myers is dead, I can come out and wait on.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
Them part two. So what would you like to see
an upcoming Halloween TV series?

Speaker 3 (46:55):
I would love to see anthology stories. The impression that
I got everybody I spoke with was that anything on
the small screen would be anthology based, anything on the
big screen would be Michael Myers based, And there's just
going to be that division of church and state moving
forward to you know, no more season than The Witch
and movie theaters. But Season of the Witch can happen

(47:16):
at home. So I think that creepy things that happen
on hoping night makes for a great story, makes for
a great TV show.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah no, no, I mean we did have Ride thirteenth
about haunted antiques.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, I mean it's weird though, because my thoughts are like,
I would love seeing that as a TV series, but
only if they also will do movies that continue to
explore the Michael Myers mythos or the lore of the films,
because if we only get the TV series and has
nothing to do with it, then it feels like we're
not having Halloween.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
You know, I will tell you and I will not
name names, but several people that I talked to throughout
the creation of this book were pitching things to Malaka
God and they were like, I'm throwing this idea, throwing
this idea, and they assumed that I knew more than
I really did about what was happening. But being the
good investigative journalist that I am, I pretend and just

(48:11):
so I could hear these stories. And the impression that
I get is that they will never stop making Halloween
films good, but Michael Myers is reserved for the big
screen and anything not really involving Michael Myers's television. And
that was very much the impression I got. That's how
you solve for both. You know, you can continue season

(48:34):
of the Witch, which now like we want that, you know,
people want what they attempted to do back then, but
it needs to be separate from Michael Myers, and that
way we have that hard line, that division, that line
needn't cross big screen small screen.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, and as long as that's it, I'm happy to
hear that that they're not, because all I've heard in
news lately is about the TV series, and so it's
nice to know they're still, you know, coming up with
ideas for further films. I knew that, I know there'srobably
going to be a little bit of a break. But anyway,
moving back to the book, there were a ton of
things that I didn't know about this franchise that I
learned in your book. Like one of the biggest thing

(49:09):
was that I had no idea that Deborah Hill was
involved in the story development of Part five, you know.
And I love that you included also the chapter with
the authors of the Taking Shape books because it gave readers,
you know, kind of a taste of some of the
scenes and plot lines that have never made it to
the screen. But my question for you is, of all
the things you learned from doing interviews for this book,
which were you the most surprised to discover.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
This Shewn Bedderman story earlier? That was definitely the biggest
shocker for way.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
That is, yeah, because of the arbitration statement, especially like
I mean, it's one thing to just say, like, you
know a lot of my ideas were the film in
the film, and a second thing when you send a
list of them. Yeah, another thing I got to ask,
and I think this related to the Taking Shape authors,
is there really a collector out there who has a
bunch of extra footage from the original Halloween, because I

(49:56):
would love to see He mentioned two scenes, one that
Annie receiving a call from her dad right before she
gets killed telling her to like be careful that night,
and Laurie coming home and seeing her mom making candied apples.
It's so, there's supposedly a collector who has footage.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Of this allegedly. I mean, you know just as much
as I do. But if that collector does exist, come
on help us out.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
That is crazy.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
I heard he's addicted to YouTube and he came across
this interview.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
And good oh, I was just gonna say, and now
he's gonna release it due to the Happy Heart.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Yes, yes, I sponsored this idea.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
I would love it, okay. And then of course you
mentioned at the end of the book you have an
entire chapter dedicated to Daniel Harris, who played Jamie Lloyd
in Halloween four and five and Annie Brackett and Rob
Zombies Halloween and Halloween two. What I love I think
about Danielle Harris is that she's so committed to this series.
She always has been always willing to, you know, talk
about it, defended, you know, embrace it. She even said

(51:02):
in your book that she'd be up for doing both
a Halloween four part two with director Dwight Little and
a redo of Halloween six the way it was supposed
to be with Daniel Harrit I mean, sorry, with Daniel Harris,
with Daniel Farren's the writer. Now, in your opinion, if
you could only greenlight one of those projects, which would
you choose and why?

Speaker 3 (51:24):
I think it would be harder to do a Halloween
four part two, just given the way that film ended,
Like what do you do? Like do you jump all
these years later where she's now a middle aged serial killer.
I don't know. I suppose continuing with Curse would make
a little bit more sense, but either way, it's fun.
I interviewed Dwight Little maybe two days after that story

(51:47):
came out, or he did the interview where he jokingly
said that he wanted to do Halloween four part two,
and the person ran with it, and it's all over
Twitter and websites are writing articles about this, and Dwight
was kind of going cop kipper of that, like it
wasn't something he wanted to put out in the world,
but it was a joke that he was making. And
as he told me in the book, he's like, got, yeah,

(52:08):
it'd be fun, Like we would totally do that, but
he didn't intend for that to be a big story.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
So you'd rather see a Halloween six redo the way
it with the poet, like the actual original script. Yes,
that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, And what is the number one takeaway you want
readers to get from your book?

Speaker 3 (52:25):
I hope people who perhaps didn't enjoy a film, whether
it's the rob Zombie films or Halloween Ends, or maybe
even blow the House as a whole, I hope they
give those chapters a chance, and perhaps some of these
interviews jog something in their mind. They rewatch a film
and maybe they look at that film differently. Maybe it's
Halloween five, maybe it's a Season of the Witch, doesn't matter.

(52:47):
There's thirteen films and there's inevitably going to be one
or two that you don't like as much as the rest.
Hopefully my book gets you to revisit it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
No, that's great, I mean, especially because obviously people who
love this franchise, they have their favorites of the movies,
myself included, but it and I'll tell listeners this as
someone who read this like it is so, I kind
of found more interesting things I didn't know about the
movies that may not have been my favorites, like you know,
like the Rob Zombie movies or even Resurrection. Like hearing

(53:17):
things about the movies that aren't your favorites, you probably
as a fan haven't looked as in depth into those movies,
and you're not gonna know as much like I really
didn't know I was. I didn't know that so many
people who worked with Rob Zombie adored him, I mean,
as a director just loved him. Scout Dee Wallace said
he was just like the greatest person ever. I had

(53:38):
no idea he has his tough exterior, you know, but
he's probably a big old softy, you know. But it's
fun to hear stuff like that. So before we wrap up,
Andrew in your opinion. Why do you think people are
so obsessed with the Halloween franchise throughout the last forty
seven years and thirteen films.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
The first chapter of the book kind of is with
this idea. You know, Halloween came at a time when
we were experiencing all this real life horror. We're coming
out of Vietnam, We're coming out of all these different
serial killers that are on the news, and all of
a sudden, we have a fictionalized version of real world violence.
Perfect time, perfect place captures all these subliminal fears, and

(54:20):
I think that Michael became like the safety net for
us to realize, like, hey, evil does exist in the world,
but let's enjoy it in a fictional form instead of
watching the evening news and being terrified about what's happening
out there. And Halloween is every town, USA. Most people
can relate to that. You look at the things in Haddenfield,

(54:41):
and even if you didn't grow up in a place
like that, maybe your grandma did. And now Halloween has
turned out to become this like multi generational thing. You know,
people in nineteen seventy eight that saw the film at
drive ins had kids who perhaps grew up on the
films in the late eighties who had kids who were
stra that they were Halloween films. You can go to

(55:02):
Thanksgiving dinner and talk to your grandparents or your aunts
and uncles about Halloween. How wild is that? You know?
We can't do that with Knightmarre and Elm Street, for example.
Those films were all made in a ten year period,
with the exception of the remake and Freddy Risus Jason.
But Halloween has been going on since nineteen seventy eight.
And who hasn't seen Halloween? I mean, who, like, are

(55:26):
there five people out there that haven't seen Halloween?

Speaker 2 (55:29):
People that are not my friend kids? No, No, I
mean anybody who knows me. I usually forced them to
see it. But now that is a good point because
a lot of these franchise, even though we look at
like Friday the thirteenth and the period and altret it
is like, oh, they came out all around the same time.
Not only did those come out a little later, but

(55:49):
you're right, they also stopped making films for now many
years ago. Whereas you know, we just had the last
Halloween film three years ago, and the first one was
forty seven years ago. So and they're still working on it.
So that's a good point, like it's a multi generational appeal.
Just on a fun note. In your book, you included

(56:09):
an adorable photo of your son Jack dressed as Michael Myers.
Now I don't know how long ago that was or
how old your sons are, but have they seen the
Halloween films? And what did they think?

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Not all My older son has, but he's a teenager.
My younger son, Jack has not seen all the Halloween films.
I've kind of picked and choosed what he's allowed to watch.
But Daniel Harris, I'll tell the story. He watched Halloween
five with me the night before I called her for
the interview, and he gets really upset in the middle
of the movie and I was like, Jack, what's wrong?

(56:43):
Why are you crying? And he's like, Dad, I'm too
old to be a child actor now. And this kid
is literally crying because he's too old to be a
child actor. And I'm cracking of laughing and I shouldn't
because I shouldn't laugh a crying child. But he had
this realization that he was too old to be a
child actor at ten. And I told Daniell that and
she's just cracking a laughing. She's like, please tell your

(57:04):
son that he doesn't want to be a child actor.
But Jack is a lot like me. You know, he's
kind of got the creative mind going. Him and his
friends have actually been making a horror film in the
neighborhood with their iPhones. They have all these masks and
they're running around, and I love the creativity. You know,
Eventually he'll see all these movies and I probably let

(57:24):
him see more horror than other parents in our neighborhood have.
But I suppose that comes with having a dad who
writes about horror for a living.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
And speaking of childhood actors, any word from Kyle Richards tried.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
I did try because she had She had a.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
Pretty good scene in Halloween Kills.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
Yeah takeaway she did so earlier I made a Housewives reference.
My wife is a giant Real Housewives fan. I became
all in, you know, I'm like, literally like it's Tuesday,
let's go like Thursday, We're watching all of them.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
At first, I was like, I'm just doing this to
be a supportive us, but and now like I have
favorites all these shows and Kyle is my favorite. Like
I am team Kyle I am. And it's probably because
of how but yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Was gonna say, I Tim loves Housewives.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
I don't really watch, but he just dragged me in.
And one of the ways he got me in was
every time like, oh, Kyle Richard, Lindsay Wallace from Olive
and then especially when she was announced she was coming
back for Kills, I was Curtis Housewives. Definitely watch that scene.
I was gonna say, it's so funny you say that
about being you know, a parent who loves horror movies

(58:35):
as a kid that ends up loving I'm not a parent,
but I have a nephew who's eleven, right around the
age of your son, and he's obsessed with horror and
he makes his own little movies and stuff a lot
of them on roadblocks. But it's like, I love that
because we can kind of share in that passion. And luckily,
I mean my sister his mom is also a fan
of horror. But I like to think that I kind

(58:56):
of brought it out.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, and what's next for you? Do you think you'll
read another book?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Yes, I will tell you about it when we're not recording.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Oh okay, well then for the people listening, Can I
ask whatuld it be horror related?

Speaker 3 (59:16):
This next one we will call horror adjacent. Okay, that
is the phrase that the publisher used. It's a different publisher.
I am working with somebody different for book two. It's
exciting and we're going to keep our lips sealed for
a little bit longer. But it's probably not surprising if
you follow me on social media what book two will

(59:38):
be about.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Hmm okay, I like those clues.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Have to take a gander.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
So we have now made it to our final question.
Andrew and I we talked about this now. Andrew told
us that he has been a listener of a Happy
Horror Times and I didn't even have to pay him
to say that. Thank you, volunteers, Incasion. We're very great
full and because he's heard a number of our interviews,

(01:00:03):
he was familiar with this question, which is great because
so many people are put on the spot and they're like,
uh uh, so I'm going to ask you, what is
one thing that you can tell us about your experience
working on this book, Horror and Haddenfield, that you've never
told any other interviewer, any other podcast, any other publication

(01:00:24):
who's talked to you about this book to date.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
The easy answer would be that Maryann Hagen sang to me,
and she's a tremendous singer, that that would be one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Wait what did she sing? I need to have a birthday? No?

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
It wasn't happy birthday, Honestly, I can't remember. It was
like some like Motown kind of bop. I I will
go back and find the recording and I will tell
you guys, but I'm going to give you one that's
a little bit more juicy. Oh, okay, tell us And
I'm not going to name a name because that would
get me in trouble.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Somebody sent Malika cot an email with a pitch idea
for a film after Halloween ends, they see seed somebody
from Blumhouse on the email. They got a phone call
from Malick saying, don't ever see see them on pitch
emails again? Wow?

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Was it an accident?

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
No, they thought they were. They thought the relationship might
be continuing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
So like, do you do you find out if Malik
actually liked the pitch idea or he was so turned
off that they see see the Blumhouse person and it's
like done.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
I can tell you from everybody that has told me
about pitches they've sent to Malik, he is like this
right now. Most people assume there's something big coming. You
know that he is laser focused on the future that
most likely has his ideas in place. But he's friendly
enough to listen to your pitch, you know, if you
have a relationship with Malika and tell him your pitch.

(01:01:56):
But it seems like he knows where things are going.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
I know it is Michelle Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Michelle Williams. They're bringing Michelle Williams back, Mollie without without John.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
She signed me up.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Can you imagine Michelle Miche comes out and says like, hey, guys,
my next project.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I'm ready.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
He's like, my next project Halloween fourteen. I would love
She's like, I'm going back to Hillcrest Academy, right, I
would love it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
I'm there. I gave you two responses to your final question.
That that was I was prepared. So it's like, oh,
come on, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
No that we love that, We we love the We've
gotten so many different types of answers, from very very
tame to very scandalous to very confusing to very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Think Leslie Dean from Night Street Freddy's Dead. Yes, that
one still shocks me.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yes, do you want a shocking answer to that question?
Episode of our interview with Leslie Dean. We were not
expecting it, but loved it well anyway, Andrew, thank you
so much for coming on the show, for writing a
book about this ranchise, for including a quote from me
in the book. I was so honored to have that
in there. But I was happy for me. Yeah, it

(01:03:14):
was just it was thank you so much for reaching
out about this. And it's a great book. I listeners,
whether you're a fan of the Halloween franchise or you're
just interested in reading about it, Like you can learn
so much about the inner workings of these movies in
this book. Do I have to tell people any specific
place to order the book or is it available everywhere? Amazon?

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Available everywhere? You know, if you buy it on Amazon,
I can move up the rankings a little bit. Never
enough that I'm ever going to catch Ashley. That interview
with Ashley listen to that the other day book. Yeah,
and her book is phenomenal too. You know, none of
us will catch up to her, but but rightfully so,
like that is just a treasure trow for Scream fans,

(01:03:56):
and I loved your with her the other day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Thank you, Like I'm I mean, it was such a
treat to have. I mean a book, two books on
the two favorite franchises right around the same time. And
it's great. But you know, very different books, but both
very great, great books. And I think people, yeah, I
think you know, check out this book and get it
on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
I have one tiny question I have to ask. So,
in doing your research, you probably watched the Halloween films.
Which one did you watch the most?

Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
Rubs up is helping too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
That's so fun because you were like, I'm gonna like that.
I'm gonna like, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Had to figure out what am I missing here? Like
why do people feel so strongly about this movie in
a way that I don't? And I finally got there,
like I finally understand why they like it. But it
took me a while to get there. You just kept
thinking this is not good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
That that gives me hope, because I will say this candidly,
of all thirteen films, it's my least favorite. And I
say that as someone who anything you put the name
Halloween on With something like that, there's some part of
me that I sit and will watch it. But it's
the only film I don't really return to every year
that I just haven't been into. But now I feel

(01:05:06):
like maybe I do need to return to it more.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
I mean, you're inspiring me. I only thought once in
the theater when it came out in two and nine, two.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Thousand and nine. Yeah, but you are inspiring me to
really give it a different watch. Because again, when I
first saw Season in the Witch, when I finally got
around to watching it, I was like, there's no Halloweens
on TV. I'd rather watch Halloween in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
If you ever get a chance, I've said this a
million times on every podcast, but if you ever get
a chance to see Season of the Witch with a
crowded audience, it's the best because everyone has such reactions
because Tom Madkins like drinks the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
It's just it's so mad on that erson. But well, yeah,
that's why I say. The more I've watched it, I've
really grown to love this film and really enjoy it.
And it still does feel like part of the Halloween
universe because of the John Carpenter, Alan Howard Score, just
the actors in the movie, like you know, people that
are all it still feels Halloween adjacent enough that it
feels like it belongs.

Speaker 3 (01:05:58):
Friday, October seventeenth, will be seeing Season at the Witch
and Theater, So I'm very excited about that. Is it
your first time, I've never seen it in the theater?

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
No, so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Hope is like a fun crowd.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Yes, I assume it will be. There's called in the
hipster district here in Cincinnati. It's right near at the
University of Cincinnati. This guy there's one Friday a month
where he plays random eighties horror films on a big
screen and the theater just allows him to like rent
it out for the night. So it's like a fun
party atmosphere and you're watching random eighties splatter films for

(01:06:33):
the most part. But he's doing Halloween three on the seventeenth.
I mean, I will be there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Nothing against like amc and cinemas of the world, but
when it's that kind of theater that's even better.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Well, again, thank you Andrew for coming on the show.
We wish you the best of luck with this book
and and everything. I mean, it's the perfect time for
it to come out, and spooky season right our favorite
time of year, and about the best franchise I ever heard.
Hik you. I always have to throw that in with Tim. Yes,
and look here, here's here's ours everyone, Horror the unhold

(01:07:10):
Stories of Halloween. Everyone pick it up and thank you.
Andrew will hope to stay in touch and we'll talk
with you later. Okay, thank you guys. Okay, bye bye.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Happy Horror Time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
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(01:07:50):
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Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Patrons also get all our regular episodes, ad free and
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Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
I'm Matt Emmerts and I'm Tim Murdoch and we hope
you have a Happy Horror Time