May 17, 2021 • 54 mins
It's NBA awards time! With the regular season officially in the books, Adam and Dan go through their final picks—not to be confused with predictions—for MVP, Defensive Player of the Year, Rookie of the Year, Most Improved Player, Sixth Man of the Year, Coach of the Year and Executive of the Year. While some of these races are fait accompli—thanks to Nikola Jokic, Rudy Gobert, LaMelo Ball, Julius Randle and others—the second part of our ballots proved to be ultra-difficult. TIMESTAMPS⬇️ 🔘 Adam ruins his wife's office (0:57)🔘 East play-in matchups (1:30)🔘 Executive of the Year (4:31)🔘 Coach of the Year (10:52)🔘 Sixth Man of the Year (19:58)🔘 Defensive Player of the Year (27:36)🔘 Rookie of the Year (32:37)🔘 Most Improved Player (39:42)🔘 MVP (45:56) Please subscribe to Hardwood Knocks here. And if you're listening to us in Apple 's podcast player, please, please pretty please leave us a rating and write a review here. Host: @danfavaleHost: @fromal09Follow: @HardwoodKnocksFollow: @The_Sports_Math Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
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welcome to the latest episode of HardwoodKnocks. This is Adam Frombile here with
my fantastic and now mortal enemy cohost Dan Favalley. I have to say
the mortal enemy part because we're nowlocked into a first round matchup between the
New York Knicks and the Atlanta Hawks, which would have been almost inconceivable.
And we're gonna stop because I justknocked over my drink here and it is
(01:06):
exploding everywhere on the floor. Ohyeah, all right, I'm okay,
but I'm in my wife's office andmight have just ruined some of her work
things. Do you need me tovamp while you clean that up? Yes,
this is gonna take me a fewminutes. Well, holy crap,
(01:27):
I'll come back. Well, foranyone who's listening, we are going to
eventually talk about awards today once Adamgets his life under control. A lot
of the play in matchups we're stilltalking as some of the stuff is being
decided, but a lot of theplayoff matchups has already been set. We
(01:47):
are gonna have Milwaukee and Miami inthe first round in the East. That's
going to be an interesting matchup justbecause of what Miami did to Milwaukee last
year. Jannie got injured at onepoint in that series, but the Bucks
were not playing well. They dosee more playoff proof this season. That's
still gonna be a fun rematch.Nick's versus Hawks. That's, as Adam
mentioned, was inconceivable at the startof the season. The Knicks being in
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fourth place in the East is justabsolutely wild when you're looking at relative to
their expectations. Philly is locked intothat first spot in the East, Brooklyn
is in second, so they're gonnaplay the winners of the playing Boston is
in seventh, Washington's in eighth,Indiana is in ninth, and Charlotte's in
tenth. The plan's gonna be interesting. I think it's probably gonna go just
(02:34):
looking how injured Boston is without JalenBrown. There's a chance the Wizards win
that first playing game and then Boston. I don't know who's gonna win,
Indiana Charlotte, If anyone has anythoughts on that one, that's a really
tough one to pick because Indiana's betteron paper, but they're banged up a
lot. See, I'm all outof sorts with the bracket at the moment.
Adam. If you're listening to meright now, I am. I'm
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all out of sorts in my regularlife. Are of podcasting right? I'm
good. I can't say the sameabout my wife's desk. That is awesome.
Do you want to get to whatwe're actually going to do with this
podcast? If anyone in the roomhas any questions throughout this about what we're
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talking about or any play in playoffquestions. We won't answer them here,
but Adam is going to tell youwhat we're actually doing today. Yeah,
it's Award Pick Day. It's thefinal day of the regular season as we're
recording this, so it is timeto jump into all of the major NBA
awards. We're talking MVP, we'retalking Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player
of the Year, sixth Man ofthe Year, Most Improved Player, Coach
(03:35):
of the Year, and Executive ofthe Year, which I don't think too
many people care about, but we'regoing to do it in the name of
completeness. I don't know what orderwe're going to go here, but Dan
and I both have are ballots builtout for the top three, with some
honorable mentions for each of the nonMVP awards, and then our top five
as the NBA MVP ballot is actuallystructured for that biggest of individual accolades.
(03:59):
So I have it's set up inorder since I'm leading us through it of
what we did it in the preseason. So we'll start with Executive of the
Year, moved through a Coach ofthe Year, then sixth Man of the
Year, Rookie, Defensive Player ofthe Year, Rookie of the Year Most
Improved MVP. That was a weirdorder we did it. I think we
weren't too interested in Defensive Player ofthe Year at the time. And I'm
not gonna be beyond. I'm notgonna be you know, I'm not gonna
(04:19):
lie. I'm not sure I'm thatinterested in it either. I think people
want to make the in a debate. I don't really think it is.
Noah says in the chat, Idare Damn to Dan to Cape for SGA
for most Improved Player. I darehim. You don't need to dare me,
because it's he's going to So I'mgoing to just want to make that
clear. Let's start with the Executiveof the Year. I'll start with mine
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on this one. I think thisis a no brainer, and it's not
the no brainer people have turned itinto. James Jones is number one on
my ballot. Shawn Marks is numbertwo, Daryl Morey is number three.
I'll save you an honorable mentions,so I'll let you talk about those once
you get to yours. For me, just James Jones is the clear number
one for me. It's the ChrisPaul trade was huge. People are putting
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Chris Paul in the MVP discussion.James Harten has since fallen out of the
MVP discussion because of availability. That'snot the only good move that James Jones
made. Jay Crowder Tory Craig hasbeen absolutely monstrous for them, getting them
in a position where you have competentplayers. You know this, I guess
gives them credit for years past,But the bringing Dario Sharts back, he
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was so good at the five formost of this year, that's kind of
fallen off. I guess if youwant to build a case against him,
you could point out that they didn'tdraft Tyrese Haliburton when he was there,
and could you imagine this team withTyrese Haliburton on it? Just they would
be at it before the season startedand really liked what we saw there,
and then we just didn't get tosee it. I do think the one
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thing you can give him credit for, like last season leaking over into this
season, was the way that theystructured the campaign contracts that they could bring
him back. I want players toget paid more than they are, so
I'm not saying I don't want togo, oh, campaign is underpaid?
How great is that? For theSuns, but you roll the dice on
him and put yourself in a positionto keep him, and he's been on
the peripherals of the six man ofthe Year discussion for people who've watched the
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Suns anyway, So that's my ballot. I don't think anyone comes close to
touching James Jones. And I knowShawn Marks made the move for Harden,
that's not his only case. BringingBruce Brown been very helpful for them.
Jeff Green has been super helpful forthem. I get all of that.
And then making the hard move therewas a risk, and it became a
necessity when you look at all thegames their stars had missed. But there's
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also sort of the element of theno brainer there where it's oh, trade
for a top five player or don'twithout giving up any real stars in the
process. That's not a hard decisionto make. It's not that hard anyway.
Yeah, I mean, I totallyagree, which is why I also
have Shawn Marks at number two andreally a distant second to James Jones at
number one. You know, youmentioned the moves that Marx deserves credit for,
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and even if it is a nobrainer, it still took some serious
gumption to actually pull the trigger andacquire James Harden in the middle of a
season, when you already have thestars on board, when you already have
a first year head coach in SteveNash who hasn't had to deal with that
kind of locker room dynamic, atleast in that kind of role. That
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coupled with Bruce brown acquisition going intothe season, coupled with bringing in Blake
Griffin, who has looked at leasta little bit reinvigorated. Jeff Green has
been effective, like he did,make enough good moves here that even if
it's low hanging fruit to nominate himfor this award, he definitely deserves the
nomination. I do have a travishlink from the Atlanta Hawks in my number
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three spot. I think we've seenas the season has progressed that the offseason
moves, the really aggressive offseason movesthat included bringing in Daniel o' gallinari and
bog Gun Bogdanovich. The in seasonmove of trading for Lou Williams Chris Dunn
signing hasn't really paid off, norhas Tony Snells, but so many of
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these moves have started to look betteras the season has progressed. In the
injury have dissipated, allowing the Hawksto play with more of their full rotation
and establish some semblance of consistency ona night tonight basis. Beyond that,
the move from Lloyd Pierce to NateMcMillan in the middle of the year has
had hugely positive repercussions on this team. It enabled the entire rotation to start
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playing better, to start playing morecohesive basketball, and it was a huge
inflection point for the Hawks right inthe middle of the season. That has
to matter. My honorable mentions LeonRose and Sam Presty. I think Rose's
candidacy kind of speaks for itself becausethe Knicks have made that leap from bottom
feeder who basically everyone was predicting tomake the playoffs to the number four seed
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in Eastern Conference. And meanwhile,Sam Presty has continued to basically force the
NBA to expand the first round becauseno one else has any picks. I'm
so hesitant to give to give creditto Sam Presty just because is the tanking
stuff is veers too far into whatdo we treat and view players as in
(09:05):
that scenario. I'm also it's awkwardto see them tell Al Horford to go
home and face zero repercussions for it, But I totally get it. I
mean, they've he has stacked thedeck for them, and their rebuild is
off to a great start, soI don't begrudge anyone who had picked them,
but I couldn't put him in mytop three. Leon Rose is interesting
in the top three, not oneI gave consideration too, but when you
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specifically look at a lot of theone year deals he signed Alec Burke's new
Lands Noel, the Derek Rose tradeend up being everyone including myself, lampooned
the Knicks for that. The onlytruly terrible move they made has been resigning
Alfred Peyton and then continuing to playAlfred Peyton until the six thirty six minute
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mark in the first quarter. Sothat's a great pick, and the Schlank
one is sort of a slow burn. I don't know if the Hawks have
been good enough for long enough orhealthy enough, I should say for long
enough. But that was a reallyinteresting one too, and I wonder if
he's going to get some extra lovethat I didn't necessarily consider when I was
building my ballot. I don't thinkhe's going to just because the first half
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of the season is still entrenched inpeople's minds. But we've seen that the
moves did pan out once those externalfactors started to be minimized. By the
way, did you see me successfullytake a drink out of what remains of
my drink without spilling it all overmyself? No, I was too busy
freaking out because my teams has notbeen going Teams app has not been going
(10:31):
off at all today because it's aSunday, and it's decided right when we
podcasted that the messages are in coming, so that the beginning you hear in
the background the pining is that.So I was trying to get that out
of the way. But I'm justlistening the livest of our live episodes.
It's fine, don't worry. Youguys are going to get a real prerecorded
All NBA Teams one for anyone who'sstill listening. That comes after the awards
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ballot. Thank you for anyone who'ssticking through this. Do you want to
start us off on Coach of theYear. Yeah, it was. I
feel like this award is a toughone every season because Are you recognizing the
best coach in the league? Areyou recognizing the coach who exceeded expectations most
Even though we have this conversation whatseems like every single season, there still
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isn't really that established criteria, whichmakes it such a nebulous, difficult to
predict award. So I tend toview it more as a mix of those
two things, like both the coachingquality and the level of improvement which pushed
Tom Thibodeau barely passed Monty Williams andQuinn Snyder. For me, I have
Nate McMillan and Doc Rivers as myhonorable mentions who deserve a lot of credit
(11:39):
for what they've done with their respectiveteams. But I think it's a three
person race for this award, AndI'd really be okay with putting TIBs,
Monty, and Quinn's names and hatsand drawing them out randomly, and that
is a justifiable order. I mean, Thibodeaux has established a culture in New
York, a defense of identity,which is a stark contrast to the biggest
(12:03):
weaknesses of previous iterations of this Knicksorganization. Monty Williams has made Chris Paul,
who is not always the easiest lockerroom presence, into a bona fide
positive leader for this young team thathas excelled and jumped straight into the race
for the top of the Western Conference. And the Jazz have been maybe the
best team in basketball for most ofthis season, with a fairly unorthodox roster
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construction for today's NBA that is alsoa deviation from what he's done in the
past. I get arguments for allthree of them. I think that the
establishment of the culture and the failuresof the Knicks over the last few years
were enough context for me to justbarely marginally bumped Tibbs to number one.
(12:50):
Yeah, you have for the unexpectednessof where the Knicks are. I think
wanted out for Tibbs. I hadMonty Williams at the top for a lot
of this. He's number two forme, and I've Clinch Snyder third.
The Jazz are a fucking machine.They just you can talk about whether stuff
will hold up in the in theplayoffs. This is a regular season awards,
so I don't care. But theyjust they're a machine. They've had
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Mike Conley and Donovan Mitchell injured fora good chunk of time towards the end
of the year. They still havethe best defense in the league right now,
so and the things you're not goingto be on the court for the
Jazz. This might be Jordan Clarkson'sbiggest six minute year case. By the
way, you don't play minutes ifyou don't try on defense for Utah,
and Jordan Clarson has played a tonof minutes getting ahead of myself there,
But to have something like Jordan Clarksongive that effort too. Yes, you
(13:33):
have the best drop defender in theleague and Rudy Gobert, who everything is
structured around, but to get whatyou have out of that defense when you
just don't have any elite defenders asidefrom Rudy Gobert on your team. So
I give the Jazz is consistency,and I guess it hasn't always been there.
Their transition defense can get iffy,and we've seen you know different cult
tookball on Madonovitch La allowed to getgoing there. They have the best record
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in the league, So I don'tknow how you don't have them at least
on here. Tom Thibodeau was numberone for me though, and the Knicks
are fourth. I don't think evenif you saw this lead from Julius Randall
Cumming, or if you don't wantto give him credit for it, which
that's fine too, the Knicks havea top five defense. Why there you
look at look at anyone on thisteam, on this roster, no one
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screams this is a top five defensiveteam. It just doesn't. And the
fact that he's yeah, you haveguys who are good on defense, Norlan's
Noel or Mitchell Robinson before he gotinjured. Okay, great, grand wonderful
Franio a Keen that hasn't even playeda ton. So that's almost why I'm
detracting points from TIBs. That's whyit's not a runaway, by the way,
so they're not even playing like necessarilytheir best defensive specialist on the team,
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Derek Rose has busted his ass onthe defensive end since coming over.
There's been improvement from Randall. Ithink I've seen the biggest improvement of anyone
on the roster defensively is with RJ. Barrett. And maybe that's to be
expected when you're going from rookie tosophomore, but he's actually been an asset
on that end. I eat thejob he has done there. I'm very
curious to see what happened long termwith the Knicks, just because so many
(15:01):
of the guys seemed like placeholders.What are we you know, how is
Julius Roynod gonna hold up next seasonafter playing so many minutes this year.
I'm not even just trying to troll. I'm genuinely concerned about the sustainability of
what the Knicks have done this season. Specifically, though we both have them
as a bottom five team in theleague coming in this year, they are
now. They might finish with thetenth best record in the league, depending
on how the Sunday games shake out. I think he has to be the
(15:22):
choice money Leams comes close. Ido feel like maybe he's overthought some of
his lineup decisions, though, andthe DeAndre Ayton inconsistency train. I attribute
some of it to him, atleast, just because he's overseeing the team.
I don't look he's finishing too,so I'm not trying to detract from
him. But those are just splittinghairs, That's what I was looking at.
I will say I always feel uncomfortablepicking this award because we are not
(15:46):
in the locker rooms or at practicesseeing how much of the improvement and how
much of the success is actually creditedto the coaches. So it always feels
like an uninformed attempt to be informedwith an award and without caveat out of
the way. I was pretty closeto having McMillan jump into my top three.
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I think it's more a tier offour than a tier of three,
just because he took over a teamthat was very much down in the dumps
and struggling to live up to thepreseason expectations. Mid season, a roster
that was dealing with a lot ofinjuries that had prevented continuity. You had
the John Collins situation kind of loomingin the background, like is he going
to demand a trade? Is he'sjust not going to play as effectively because
(16:30):
he knows that he's going to beleaving next season and doesn't want to waste
energy on a team that isn't succeeding. But since he took over, and
I'm assuming that the Hawks beat thetank tastic Houston Rockets this afternoon after we're
recording this, but if they do, they would be twenty seven and eleven
under McMillan, which is a fiftyone win pace over the course of a
(16:53):
seventy two game season, which wouldmatch the number of wins the Jazz have
right now with one game left forthe best record in the league. Like,
that's how good the Hawks have beensince he took over. This is
also the two other things I wouldadd about what makes picking this award as
US problematic. One, we're notthe oh look at this after the time
(17:15):
out play that the coach ran like, that's not our forte and that's can
certainly be part of it for somepeople. And the other thing is I
always have I have to winnow downmy list from like fifteen candidates at the
start, I you know, TaylorJenkins, Nate McMillan, as you already
outlined, he was one of thehonorable mentions for me. I think you
could also make a very strong casefor Doc Rivers because of what Philadelphia has
(17:38):
done this season. People were kindof dumping all over Terry Stotts, but
the Blazer's defense has been legitimately goodsince Yusef Nurkics has been back. Surprise,
surprise, they needed their big manto competently protect the rim. That's
shocking, shocking, Adam. Idon't know how anyone could have seen that
coming. I could talk myself anddo a little bit of love for Steve
Nash injuries in and out of Brooklyn. I know he has the talent and
(18:00):
a great assistant coaching staff. Ialso look at this as a full coaching
staff award, by the way,not just it's awarded a one person,
but it's a coaching staffs award.The Nets are second in the East,
and they've their Big Three is playedwhat seven games together? Eight So that's
another route that you could go,and I could go on, you know,
does James need some love too,Mike Malone, Rick Carlisle. You
(18:23):
could also talk to yourself, JamesRiego. I was mentioning, how has
Charlotte been even close to lead averageon defense this year? So that's what
makes this award especially tough for meas well. Yeah, it's it's a
virtually impossible one to predict, andI think this is one of the rare
seasons where there really isn't a onehundred percent true, bona fide front runner
(18:45):
so much as a front running group, I don't. I think Kids has
to be the front runner. TheKnicks are I haven't looked at the betting
odds or anything. I think,I mean, we both picked him,
but I'd think it's a narrow gap. And I wonder if it's almost like
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Award is on an endorsement we're upto sixth Man of the Year, which
(19:57):
is mine. I'm gonna preface thiswith this, and you can call me
out on this next year, listeners. If my logic is inconsistent when it
comes to the most improved player,I don't like awarding it to year or
two guys, which is why Iwhen d Iron Fox had his Major League
I did not vote for him,even though I was very tempted to,
and for six Man of the Yearthis season, I found it a little
(20:19):
clarney that lou Will and Montras Harroldwere both top three on a ballot last
year, so I was not goingto pick two people from the same team,
which is why I think they're goingto be some people who are angry
with my ballot. If Joe Inglesat one, Tyrese Haliburton at two,
and Tim Hardaway Junior at three awardstechnically are due Monday, I reserve the
(20:42):
right to change for another eight anda half hours. As of this recording,
the third spot was tough for me. Tim Hardaway Junior shooting I think
is super valuable to Dallas. He'salso shooting a career high I believe fifty
two point one percent inside the arcthis year has tried pretty hard on d
His shooting splits can be to relyon Dontech being on the floor, but
(21:03):
you could say that pretty much aboutanyone. Jalen Bronson came put it pretty
close to getting this for me.I also consider Derrick Rose, Daddy is
young, Bobby Portis, Jordan Clarkson. Obviously, Cameron Payne deserves some love
here as well. Joe Ingles wonout for me. I know he started
almost thirty games. That could alsowork in his favor as the argument for
six Man of the Year, whereif you have injuries and need to insert
someone in the starting lineup naturally orat logistically speaking, it would be your
(21:27):
sixth man, wouldn't like the nextguy up would be the sixth man.
I know it doesn't work like that. He's just been so phenomenal. He
has a true shooting percentage of twotrillion as a perimeter player is I think
it's two trillion point seven. That'sa wildly impressive still has the ability to
create a little bit off the dribble. He does still do okay on defense.
(21:48):
This is I don't think he's thesame player who really shut down Paul
George and that okayc series a fewyears ago, but she's such a smart,
accurate player. And then anyone whohas a problem with Tyrey's Albert being
on this ballot, he also didstart I think twenty games this year and
he's out for the season with hisknee injury, but he definitely played enough
to crack it. The dude isshooting over forty percent from three played fantastic
defense as a rookie. Is justa it's not fill the box score because
(22:14):
he's so low volume, but contributein every single area. It was he's
basically the fattiest young of guards excepthe can shoot, and so it's he
was so good that maybe I wantedto reward him because we know he's not
gonna win Rookie of the Year Ihave. If anyone is a problem with
him making his ballot, though theyare, they're free to add me on
Twitter and we can we can havea discussion about it. I'm not going
(22:37):
to change my mind, but wecan have a discussion about it. It
feels like there are roughly four hundredcandidates for this award, right Like you
can name a team and you mighteven have multiple candidates from said team.
Do you know what, something Ithought about really quickly was like they probably
needed to play more. But theKnicks technically have three or four guys that
you could look at and be like, should they be on this? Emmanuel
(22:59):
Quickly, Derrick Rose, Noel didn'tstart for most of the season because or
you know, didn't start until ChadRobinson was injured. And even Alec Burks
did he play enough to get there, but he's been like lights out and
crunch time for them. So thatwas the team where it was. I
think there's one clear guy that yougo with, and it's Derek Rose,
probably, but there were four namesthat's prong to mind just from that team.
(23:21):
Yeah, no, yeah, Iagree with you. I did not
agree with your limitation to one playerper team, just because I think I
viewed this award more as recognizing thebest backup in basketball, not necessarily recognizing
the best first man off the benchin basketball, even if it's technically named
(23:42):
sixth man and not sixth or seventhman. So I did have Joe Ingles
first for all the same reasons thatyou listed out. I had Jordan Clarkson
third. I think despite the inefficiencywith which he's played during the second half
of the season. The scoring rolethat he's filled is so valuable and necessary.
They need somebody who's willing to comeoff the bench and take those difficult
(24:03):
shots and put pressure on defense offthe bounce. So regardless of the efficiency
numbers there, I think it's prettyclear how important he's been to that team.
I had Jalen Brunson and Thaddeus Youngas my honorable mentions, and I
had Derek Rose at number two onmy ballot. I strongly considered moving him
up to number one. You know, we talked about it a little bit
before we began recording. What hedid in Detroit is just not enough for
(24:30):
him to ascend to that number onespot. He wasn't making the team better,
he wasn't shooting the ball with anysemblance of efficiency while he was a
member of the Pistons. But whathe's done in thirty five games with the
Knicks has been immaculate. I mean, this team is eleven point nine points
per one hundred possessions better with himon the floor, and that does not
(24:52):
seem like a fluke. He's playingI would argue, the smartest basketball of
his career. He's not forcing theissue he's accepted that his peak level of
athleticism just isn't quite there anymore.He's a willing passer, he's a more
committed defender. Every He's checked allthe boxes, and I would say that
he has unquestionably been the best backupplayer in the NBA since he joined the
(25:19):
Knicks. And it's a volume issuethat keeps me from putting him ahead of
Joe Ingles for number one, ButI damn sure thought about doing it,
And if you have followed me onTwitter or on this podcast for any amount
of time, you know that itwas really hard for me to do that,
but his play has justified it.Yeah, I think it's strictly a
(25:41):
for me. It was just aplaying time thing, where all the other
guys on this list have played significantlymore more minutes, and it was everyone
written. And I think we needto discuss why Jordan Clarkson isn't third for
you, or wasn't on my ballotfor the past like thirty something games,
is shooting under thirty two percent fromthree. There's definitely value in the shots
(26:02):
that he's taking, and as you'vementioned, there's high utility in that volume
scoring role. I just think theperception was He's going to run away with
this award, and that was atthe beginning of the season, and we've
yet to move off it. Realityis kind of caught up to that take,
and I don't I don't think it'swrong if he wins. I'm actually
not sure who's gonna win this award. Everyone still assumes it's going to be
(26:23):
him. Maybe it will be Ithink it's fair game to discuss other players,
especially when you have Joe Ingles hasthe highest true shooting percentage in NBA
history among anyone, who's right,among anyone who's ever averaged fifteen points at
least fifteen points for thirty six minutesand five assists for thirty six minutes,
the highest true shooting percentage of inNBA history. I'm on that group.
(26:45):
Do you know who's in second place? No, but you're gonna tell me.
Stephen Curry owns the second and thirdmost efficient seasons, rounded out in
the top five by Steve Nash atfour and John Stockton at five. Pretty
decent company. I suppose Noah inin the locker room comments says listening to
Adams slowly turn into a Knicks fanhas been beautiful yeah, I suppose that's
(27:07):
kind of what's happened this season.Like i've I've very much bought into this
team, but no, I promiseyou that I will reverse course starkly during
the upcoming first round of the playoffs. That's great that the chats are not
updating for me in locker room.I had no idea that he had said
anything, So it looks like myapp is frozen, which I hope this
means we get the audio for this. Talk about another live podcasting whatever.
(27:33):
Anyway, you want to move onto the next award, which would be
Defensive Player of the Year, andit's yours to take. Are we saving
m IP for a second to orthird to last? None? Yes?
Okay, uh yeah? Is therea discussion here? It's Rudy Gobert like
that. That's it. He's thedefensive system. Unto himself. He is,
without question, the best drop coveragedefender in the league today, maybe
(27:57):
the best in that role of alltime. Don't think that's hyperbolic at this
point. He despite what people wantto say about him being played off the
court in previous postseasons, which Istill think there's more to it than simplifying
it into just that one statement.He is a dominant defense when he's on
(28:18):
the court by himself, regardless ofwho you put around him, and no
one should really touch him in thisaward. Yet again, the only reason
it might be even somewhat close isif voter fatigue comes into play. I
have Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid,both from the same team, in second
and third. I have Jannisandakoumpo anddam Adabaio in fourth and fifth, So
(28:40):
honorable mentions for me. I haveto give a shout out to Miles Turner
as well. Had he played morethis season, I think that he could
have worked his way into that topthree. But this is Gobert running away,
and I don't think much much justificationis necessary. Like just go read
the piece that Ben Dawsett wrote onfive thirty eight the other day where for
once in a blue moon, allthe defensive metrics agree that he's having a
(29:04):
historic season. That doesn't happen.That's telling. The volume of shots he
contests at the room, combined withthe efficiency he's allowing there is easily historical.
He was first in my ballot,followed by Ben Simmons and the Nive
Draymond Green at third. The Warriorshave quietly had, relative to this season,
a very good defense, and heremains the hardened soul of it.
And he's just one of the smartone of the probably one of the smartest
(29:27):
defenders in the NBA history, definitelythe smartest defender of his generation. And
just everything he does, what hecan do when he's small, when he's
gonna give you all that week sidehelp and directing everyone else, just absolutely
huge. And I don't know ifhe is a case to be any higher
than three. I'm curious to seeif if anyone will ever put him in
the top three, or how manytop three votes he actually gets. Ben
(29:48):
Simmons's versatility is there's the thought processthat you can't impact defense as much as
a perimeter player because the shots thata lot of these guys take they're gonna
make anyway. He's really difficult jump, but I still think there's an immense
value in being able to defend everyposition. And he doesn't spend too much
time on big bigs, but heguards one through four pretty regularly, and
(30:11):
he is more so than anyone elseon the perimeter, maybe a locked in
Kauai. You have o Gianna Nobion there too when you're looking at on
ball defenders. But he can racereally good players from from the planet and
we've seen him do it in theplayoffs before too. I don't think though,
that he is like a real caseover Rudy Gobert, and like you
(30:33):
said, maybe there is that fatiguewith Cobert. There's also the belief that
he can be played off the floorin the playoffs, which is also not
true. There was a very specificmatchup that was a problem for him.
That matchup no longer exists because ofHouston and Utah kind of figured out a
way to keep him on the floorin that series they ended up losing.
So I it's the perception there's veeredtoo far away from reality. That's another
(30:56):
instance of that. So I thinkhe should be the clear winner, and
I don't know that anyone could convinceme it should be Ben Simmons over him.
As convoluted as this statement may seem, I think you can make a
case that Ben Simmons is the bestdefender in basketball because of the wide variety
(31:18):
of roles he's able to fill withoutsacrificing his level of performance and the impact
that he can make across the board, but Rudy Gobert has a much more
important role. And it's as simpleas that, Like, it's great to
have that guy who can guard everyposition, who can seamlessly switch around the
perimeter and on the interior and impactpassing lanes and do everything that Ben Simmons
(31:41):
does so well. But having adominant room protector who can also hedge out
to the perimeter and deter three pointshots and still manage to drop back and
impact plays around the rim on thevery same possession, that's just so much
more important than anything else in today'sNBA. So Gobert is an absolute master
of his more specific craft. Andif you want to say that Ben Simmons
(32:05):
is the best defender in the NBAbecause of how many different things he can
do well, like, go forit. But this is a value award.
I'm totally with you there, andI liked your automble mentions there definitely,
and beat that he played more mighthave been higher on my ballot,
Jana said. The Coupo is someonethat people have slept on. There.
He's doing more than just disrupting playsas a helper this year as the Bucks
(32:27):
have switched on a more frequent basis, so, but they're just to me
as a tree reiter rate. Theredoesn't appear to be a debate. There
also doesn't appear to be a debateon this next award, which we should
be able to blow through. Asidefrom my runner up and I believe you're
runner up as well. Looking ofthe year, this one is mind to
begin with, I have a Meloballat one. Quick question, would you
have had the meloball at one hadhe not played another game this season?
(32:52):
Yes? Yeah, me too.I have Tyrese Haliburton at number two and
Anthony Edwards at number three. Ithink people and what we know people because
dumb Dan, by the way,are going to be mad that he's in
third. That first of all,considering where the point from which he was
starting, he was so bad onoffense for such a huge chunk of the
(33:14):
year. That he worked his wayat the third is a testament to him,
a harbinger of how far he hascome. But the first part of
the season absolutely happened. And soyou look at like, I don't know
if you can pinpoint the exact turningpoint for him, really, but if
you look at his first thirty sixgames of the season, thirty point two
(33:36):
percent on threes, thirty seven pointone percent from the floor overall, had
almost as many turnovers as assists,under fifteen points per game. That that
was fine. There was a marketedshift in the way that he was playing,
and those first thirty six games,which is half of the season,
they happened. And for Tyrese Haliburtonnot as flashy as a score, but
(33:58):
he does everything else and he wasmore efficient and more consistent throughout the entire
year. Do I think that he'sgoing to have the higher ceiling than Anthony
Edwards. I don't think it's impossible, but I would bet against it.
So, but this is not along term award. This is this season
specifically, and I think Tyrese Burtonprovided more end to end value than Anthony
(34:21):
Edwards. And he did just abunch of his work in the latter half,
which is you know, it's it'sgreat, and I don't want to
dismiss what he's done. It was. It was a half season's body of
exceptional work, though maybe a littlebit longer. It's all about how you
frame this award. Is it thelevel a player reached in his final game
as a rookie or is it whoadded the most value, was the best
(34:44):
player from start to finish. Itend to think it should be the ladder,
which is why my ballot is exactlythe same as yours. In the
top three, with LaMelo Ball atnumber one, Tyrese Haliburton at number two,
and Anthony Edwards at number three.I have Emmanuel Quickly and Jay Shawn
Tate among a litany of option asmy primary honorable mentions here. But yeah,
just to expand on Anthony Edwards,we had I'm trying to look up
(35:07):
who it was who asked this,and I'm not able to find it at
the moment, but we had somebodyask if they could see how Anthony Edwards
is TPA has progressed from the startof his rookie season through this point,
and you know, we did putthat out. It's on the NBA math
Twitter feed and you can see justhow much his score is plummeting into the
(35:30):
negatives. But then in mid March, from that point through the present,
he has actually been a plus.He has had positive TPA from that point,
which means that he has played likean above average NBA player. No
I'm not saying TPA is a perfectmetric, it's definitely not, but measuring
relative. I appreciate that you're wrong. I appreciate it. Dumb Dan strikes
(35:54):
again, But yeah, I meanjust to rookies aren't supposed to be above
average players. Haliburton and LaMelo Ballper TPA are the only ones and quickly
as well, I believe, whohave managed to maintain that throughout their rookie
season. And for Edwards to dothat when he's taking so many shots and
(36:15):
filling such a difficult role for anot great Minnesota Timberwolves team, that's a
situation designed to trip up virtually everyfirst year player in NBA history, and
he has taken on that level ofresponsibility and turned himself into a positive contributor
this quickly. That's why he's thereat number three despite being historically inefficient during
(36:37):
the first half of the season.Yeah, the volume matters that he's putting
up. Yeah, the flashy highlightreal dunks matter. But like, he
wasn't a good player for the firsthalf of the season, and this is
not he reached this level. Award, Like, if you're asking me to
rank the futures of these players,it's probably a debate between LaMelo and Edward
(37:00):
at number one, and then Haliburtonnext and then everyone else. But that's
not what this is. Who isWho do you think the fourth best rookie
was? I think Quickly probably betweenthat most impressed me and this might make
people angry. I'm probably between Quicklyand as I already mentioned, I would
(37:22):
consider putting Quickly on the first teamof all rookie and I had him on
second after we first did it.But Isaiah Stewart is there for me,
up there, Steque Bays up there, Jayshawn Tate for sure. I mean,
he was on my honorable mentions,So I'm just curious. That's like
the more interesting debate is Okay,we have that those are the top three,
(37:44):
regardless of how you order them.I mean, if if someone wanted
to say that Haliburton is the rookieof the year, or he wants to
make the case for Edwards because theywant to look at the difficulty of Edwards'
role for most of the year,the fact he played more, it's that's
you know, I'll listen to it, all right, but those are the
top three, and there's just sothere's not really wiggle room. I think
(38:07):
you could. You know, somepeople might make a case for. Yeah,
Patrick Williams, I think you canmake a case for if you want
to go forth best rookie. Sothere's just a bunch. Can you shouldn't
you can? I'm just saying Iwas curious to see what you had there.
Yeah, I mean I think anyiteration of those top three is justifiable.
Anything else like, I'm sorry,but it's just wrong. Are you
(38:30):
ready to have a as his team'sthings still goes off in the background,
are you ready to have a funfact quickly about not Emanuel quickly, but
Tyree's Haliburton, the rookie of theyears, the past five of them to
match his value over replacement player?Have any yes? Many of them?
(38:51):
Can you name? Would you careto take a stab or you just want
me to read the list? Let'sjust hear him. He has a value
over a place a player of warpof one four the past five rookies to
match or exceed that, Brandon Clarklast season, Luca don chich in twenty
eighteen, twenty nineteen, Mitchell Robinsonin twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, Donovan Mitchell
(39:12):
in seventeen eighteen, and then BenSimmons and Jason Tatum tied in twenty seventeen
twenty eighteen as well, So it'ssix across those years that's you got to
qualify for the minutes per game leaderboard. I don't think he's gonna have the
ceiling of most of those players.That's super encouraging company though, for sure.
I mean we Haliburton was our pickgoing into the season. I believe
I really wish the Knicks the wouldtaken and even the top topping has been
(39:35):
better. No, if you're stillin the room because my app has frozen,
I hope you at least agree withwith that Knicks take the next award.
I have penciled in probably a littlebit more of a there's not really
a debate here. I have themost improved player. There's not a debate
at the top. It's Julius Randall. We've talked about it on previous episodes.
No one else should really touch himin this conversation. I think it's
the rest of the ballot that's mostinteresting. So I have Jeremy Grant at
(40:00):
number two. Just the ability tocome into Detroit and take on a massively
expanded role that really pushed the limitationshe had as a player, and to
thrive in it prior to getting injuredwas huge. I mean, he seemed
like the early front runner, andjustifiably so. Number three, I actually
have Nicola Yokich. It doesn't Youtypically don't see those star level players show
(40:25):
up on most improved Player ballots.I think, erroneously to me, twenty
fifteen sixteen, Steph Curry twenty eighteennineteen Janisan to Decumbo should have been mp
candidates because the level at which theywere playing rose so dramatically, which pushed
them into not just getting into theMVP race, but actually winning it.
(40:47):
That's what we're seeing here, whereYokich was a top ten player last year
who's now being talked about by reputableoutlets as maybe the best basketball player in
the world. He has risen hislevel of play dramatically and virtually every area,
most impressively as a scorer, wherehe's no longer as deferential and looking
(41:09):
to pass quite as frequently, butas it's actively calling his own number.
Those baseline spins are just flat outunstoppable. He's not going to be on
the ballot for most people, butif you're talking about looking at how much
value a player added this season andcomparing it to how much value a player
added last season, he should bethere behind him. As my honorable mentions,
(41:31):
I have Shaygil Just Alexander, whoprobably would have been in the top
three had he not gotten injured.Maybe I'm not quite sure. I also
have Michael Porter Jr. And Iknow that second year players aren't typically put
in this conversation because they're expected toimprove, But you just look at what
(41:51):
he's done for this Nuggets team andstaving off the expected precipitous drop off that
should have occurred after Jamal Murray wentdown, and by expanding his game and
becoming that much more vital to everythingthat Denver has done, he has starkly
improved more than you would typically expectfrom a second year player, even one
(42:12):
who had that red shirt season ashe was recovering from his back injury during
what should have been his true rookieseason. The Michael Porter Jr. I
have the similar ballot to you.I have Julius Randall up front ahead of
Jeremy Grant, who I had aNumber one for a lot of the year,
him mincing time with an injury certainlyhurt him. It got to a
point that where his deficiency up deficiencywhere his efficiency declined, and his growth
(42:35):
was strictly as a score like hewas not someone passing. The assist numbers
went up by virtue of him justhaving the ball more. It wasn't him
improving as a passer. And JuliusRandall was throwing all different kinds of passes
and was the engine. Is theengine of the Knicks offense. Might not
be the greatest offense, it's beenmore efficient over the second half of the
year. I had Shay Gilches Alexanderin third, and I'm kind of convinced
(42:57):
that had he stayed healthy for therest of the year year, that I
would have landed with Shay Gildert Alexanderand first. And so, Noah,
if you're still in the room again, I cannot see anything on locker room
rolling through blind. Kept my screenopen because this is being recorded, so
I see the time going up.That's all I see. He when you
look at how his role changed,he went from being this secondary tertiary option
(43:21):
number two or number three his firsttwo years to being number one, and
his efficiency actually improved this year,eighty seven point one percent of his shots
were unassisted. And if I'm regurgitatingthe numbers, these numbers from past podcasts,
One they're that important and two,he's been injured for so long that
there's nothing else to talk about.He to hold that into efficiency over such
(43:42):
a difficult role where you don't haveanother creator on your team. Can you
guess who is second? Or canyou guess who leads the team in unassisted
field goal shares since he's been injured? Like basically, yes, Nice Basley
and Tayo Maladone are like deadlocked highnone. Neither of them are over They're
(44:06):
not even at sixty percent of theirfield goal makes going on assisted. That's
you know, not every team necessarilyneeds that, but there's always that one
player that has like three feels liketwo thirds or three cores of shots going
assistant. No one in the NBAwho appeared in a minimum of fifteen games
has a higher unassisted field goals maderate than Shaquilis Alexander. The only other
players in the league who are matchinghis scoring and assist per game while shooting
(44:30):
as well on twos and threes,Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry. When you
look at then what Shay does defensively, he has not had to guard the
number one option as often as youwould think someone like him would because you
have you know, Ludor exists.That's the best way to put it.
Ludor exists. But he finds himselfon number two and number three a hell
(44:51):
of a lot. He can bedisruptive on that and probably isn't where he
should be. And I don't knowthat he improved, but the fact that
he held his value there while assumingsuch a higher usage role on off fence
is important to me. That wouldbe my case from over Julius Randall again,
had Shay played longer. I thinkJulius Randall's supporting cast is exponentially better
than what say guild Just Alexander hadround for Morse of the Year. Georgia
wasn't playing a reason ever reported theywere always kind of treating al Horford with
(45:15):
kid gloves. So I think hehad a real case to win it,
not just make the top three hadhe knock gotten injured. How many picks
do you think Sam Presty is goingto get for Shay Gildes Alexander when he
shopped WHOA, you think he's gonnashop him? No, don't you max
him out this season? Right?Absolutely? My prediction for that is they
max him out with no player options. And that's the concession that he sort
(45:37):
of makes because I don't know ifI feel like you and I consider him
a no brainer Max, I'm notsure if everyone else does. I don't
know if that's like at the pointthey should. I'm totally an agreement,
although Planner or Fascia is like,that's not something to really write off,
and so maybe that factors into it. The final award, which is mine
(45:58):
to start, it's MVP, andthis is not interesting until we got to
the runner ups, Nicole Yokits,let's start there. N the order of
them is to him. I guessNicole Yokis is number one for me.
Adam did not have him number one. He in fact did not even make
your top five, right, Yeah, he was ninth on my ballot.
(46:19):
I don't what is the argument againstNicole Yokis at this point that he historically
wouldn't stock up against the previous twentyfive winners of the award or some bullshit
like that. There isn't one.It doesn't exist at this point, I
think the only thing you could makeis if you threw playing time out the
window. You could argue Joel Embiadat a higher per minute impact because of
(46:43):
what he can do defensively, butthe minutes gap is monstrous. Right,
So, as someone who had JoelEmbiad in front at the beginning of the
year, I haven't at number two. I've ye honest at number three,
which talk about fatigue. We've overlooked. You mentioned him in the defensive Player
of the Year conversation. He shouldprobably make all defense. I'm not sure.
We haven't gone through those yet.We will. And he's scoring is
(47:07):
he's basically posting the same numbers aslast year. I think he's improved a
bunch as a passer. We're seeinghim do more things on offense, maybe
not as efficiently, but he stilldoes have He's gonna take the pull up
jumpers, he's gonna take those fadeaways. He's being used as a screener more
those. The numbers on him beingused as a screener are very touch and
go. But the fact that he'sdoing it and he's not even finishing plays
a bunch. As that the factthat that option just sort of exists and
(47:29):
maybe could be used as a decoyla little bit. I think it's huge.
There's you know there, you can'twe talk about two way value.
How many more players are valuable,more valuable at both ends on the floor
than him? You can count themon one hand if you even need that
much. I have Steph at numberfour. Probably the most controversial inclusion.
I think people focus too much onteam record. When you look at everyone
(47:51):
who has logged at least two hundredand fifty minutes this year, no one
has a bigger net rating swing thanStephen Curry. Like, the drop off
between the Warriors minutes with him withouthim is huge, gargantuan, incomprehensible.
Even he lists them from being theworst team in the league to an actual
playoff team. That is, Ithink the lift that Yokich has made a
(48:13):
good team to a great one whenhe's on the court. I do think
that's harder. It was the argumentwith Joannis last year, the one that
Steph is doing. Though, that'sfrom that's ground zero to competency, obscurity
to relevance. That's a hugely difficultone to make, and I've done it.
At five I'm wondering if he shouldeven be higher than that a little
(48:34):
bit, just he is everything tothe Dallas Mavericks. Still we talk about,
like, you know, the workloadthat Nicole Yokich has, that Shay
gils Auxander has, like he istaking. He creates everything from scratch for
the Dallas Mavericks, and he salvagesmany shooting splits for Dallas because so many
players depend on him to create setup to tee up looks for them.
(48:54):
We talked about him a little biton the All Hardwoodknots team when we didn't
have him on the first team,and I think it's the same argument here
where it's like the Dallas Mavericks havenot lived up to preseason expectations, which
had them maybe ascending towards the topspot in the Western Conference, earning home
court advantage in the first round andall that, and don Chich was the
(49:15):
betting favorite for MVP going into theseason. So as magnificent and important as
he's been, he's viewed through thenarrative lens of disappointment, and I think
that might be why he's not makingeither of our ballots. I'll also say
I'm glad that you went first year, because I'm feeling so much MVP fatigue
this season, Like the number ofways people have tried to relitigate Yokich's obvious
(49:39):
placement at number one has been sodraining and exhausting that I've lost almost all
desire to talk about this particular award. So I'll just run through my ballot
here. I have Yokich at numberone, I have Steph at number two,
I have Yannis at number three,I have embat at number four,
and I do have Chris Paul atnumber five. Just the culture change that
(49:59):
he's impact did in Phoenix, theability to make everyone, maybe with the
exception of DeAndre Aiden around him,that much better and make life easier for
Devin Booker. It's so important.I get why he's been mentioned in MVP
conversations. I think it's ridiculous thathe's been put in the top three or
been billed as this somewhat legitimate challengerto Yokich when one of those doesn't really
(50:21):
exist. But he deserves a lotof credit this year. You know,
you could, you could put DonChich in that spot. I really strongly
considered putting Damian Lillard in that spot. You could have Booker if you wanted
to. You could have Riady Gobertif you wanted to. But I'm gonna
go with CP three. That's reallythe only well. I mean, your
ballot was so similar in mine,I don't know how I can have a
problem with it. CP three isthe only If I was to be spicy,
(50:43):
I don't think he belongs anywhere nearthe top five. I wouldn't think
Booker does either, because the culturechanged again last year in the bubble.
You saw it with the way thatMonty Williams did was changing the team,
and I think he's he deserves alot of credit for how good they are
this year. There are other movesmade we talked about them when discussing James
Jones that help this team. Ifyou take Chris Paul off this Phoenix Guns
roster, and okay, bring backall the players that they gave up to
(51:06):
get him, Kelly Ubray, RickyRubio, and Ty Jerome, this is
the best supporting cast that Devin Bookerhas ever had by far and away.
Even so, that's where I could, I would put Gobert there before him.
I'd put Game there before him.I think him and Booker are probably
the most equitable one two partnership inthe league. Maybe a fully healthy Kevin
Durant and James Harden, which wedid not see pretty much. Ever,
(51:27):
I think Gobert and Dono Mitchell werepretty much there. But when you look
at the minute's disparity, but threethose two, that's where it sort of
strays away. We covered all theawards, though, did we not?
We did? We've hit them all. Is there any question? Again?
I cannot see with have it?Do we have any questions or anything in
the chat before we get the fout? We do not. My only
question for you is when was thelast time Lebron James was not top five
(51:52):
on an MVP palot? Holy hell? I mean this has Is this the
most games he's missed? And therewas the first because he had that first
it's the longest absence of his career. But yeah, he actually did finish
eleventh in twenty eighteen nineteen. Yeah, but beyond that, you have to
go back to two thousand and fivewild and look, had he never gotten
(52:13):
injured, is he probably top threein this I think if he never got
injured, you're looking at a lotof people trying to push him ahead.
Of yokich I meant on legitimate ballots, not the ones that happened. Here's
my thing. I'm not rewarding LebronJames in twenty twenty one for what he's
done. It's impressive over the pasttwo decades, basically, but it's about
(52:35):
this year, and I don't thinkhe was snubbed in other years. At
least a Derek Rose Dwight Howard yearthat's for sure should have been a Lebron
year. But he was legitimately inthe conversation until Yoki ran away with it
and he Yogis just ended up checkingtoo many boxes. The Jamal Murray injury
devastating, but it helped him inthe sense that you want the narrative,
(52:55):
oh, like does the most withthe least type deal. You just lost
the second best player on your team, your second most fightaball offensive player,
and yeah, Michael Porter Junior steppedup, but the Nuggets have still been
good without Murray. This should beone of those seasons like Lebron in twenty
thirteen or Stephn twenty sixteen, whereit's like there's just not even a question.
(53:15):
Yeah, and this one's gonna besplit though it's not even I don't
think it's gonna be close to unanimous, because I think people are gonna push
embiid, They're gonna push Curry.Those feel like the three, like the
agenda driven ones. It feels likethis one shouldn't be hard to pick at
all. Yo Yo gets probably gonnaget like a couple of random one off
votes for Julius Randall. That's fine. Oh that did you consider him in
(53:35):
the top five at all? No? Looking at the other players, I
didn't either, top ten. Maybehe's definitely for sure for sure. That
does it for us, though,if you have not checked out this podcast
before and are listening at the momentHardwood Knox at Hardware Knox, but exactly
like it sounds on Twitter, subscribeto us. Listen to us. We
have a bunch of fun other stuff. You will get podcasts we've already done
(53:57):
for our regular listeners. We've doneall Rookie, We've not done awards.
We will be doing all NBA andall defense as well until next time.
Though, we give you it toshout out to the one the only unanimous
executive of the year, James Jones. Thatlle felt right. Nobody builds five
g like Verizon builds five G becausewe're the engineers who built the most reliable
(54:22):
network in America. And the moreyou do with five G, the more
building it right matters, the moreyour network matters, The more Verizon engineers
going the extra mile matters. It'sus pushing us. It's Verizon versus Variezy.
Five G built right from America's mostreliable network, most reliable based on
rankings from Metrics second half twenty twentyUS report of three mobile networks. Results
(54:44):
may vary. Award is not anendorsement
This podcast episode is brought to youby Coors Light. These days, everything
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(00:44):
welcome to the latest episode of HardwoodKnocks. This is Adam Frombile here with
my fantastic and now mortal enemy cohost Dan Favalley. I have to say
the mortal enemy part because we're nowlocked into a first round matchup between the
New York Knicks and the Atlanta Hawks, which would have been almost inconceivable.
And we're gonna stop because I justknocked over my drink here and it is
(01:06):
exploding everywhere on the floor. Ohyeah, all right, I'm okay,
but I'm in my wife's office andmight have just ruined some of her work
things. Do you need me tovamp while you clean that up? Yes,
this is gonna take me a fewminutes. Well, holy crap,
(01:27):
I'll come back. Well, foranyone who's listening, we are going to
eventually talk about awards today once Adamgets his life under control. A lot
of the play in matchups we're stilltalking as some of the stuff is being
decided, but a lot of theplayoff matchups has already been set. We
(01:47):
are gonna have Milwaukee and Miami inthe first round in the East. That's
going to be an interesting matchup justbecause of what Miami did to Milwaukee last
year. Jannie got injured at onepoint in that series, but the Bucks
were not playing well. They dosee more playoff proof this season. That's
still gonna be a fun rematch.Nick's versus Hawks. That's, as Adam
mentioned, was inconceivable at the startof the season. The Knicks being in
(02:10):
fourth place in the East is justabsolutely wild when you're looking at relative to
their expectations. Philly is locked intothat first spot in the East, Brooklyn
is in second, so they're gonnaplay the winners of the playing Boston is
in seventh, Washington's in eighth,Indiana is in ninth, and Charlotte's in
tenth. The plan's gonna be interesting. I think it's probably gonna go just
(02:34):
looking how injured Boston is without JalenBrown. There's a chance the Wizards win
that first playing game and then Boston. I don't know who's gonna win,
Indiana Charlotte, If anyone has anythoughts on that one, that's a really
tough one to pick because Indiana's betteron paper, but they're banged up a
lot. See, I'm all outof sorts with the bracket at the moment.
Adam. If you're listening to meright now, I am. I'm
(02:54):
all out of sorts in my regularlife. Are of podcasting right? I'm
good. I can't say the sameabout my wife's desk. That is awesome.
Do you want to get to whatwe're actually going to do with this
podcast? If anyone in the roomhas any questions throughout this about what we're
(03:15):
talking about or any play in playoffquestions. We won't answer them here,
but Adam is going to tell youwhat we're actually doing today. Yeah,
it's Award Pick Day. It's thefinal day of the regular season as we're
recording this, so it is timeto jump into all of the major NBA
awards. We're talking MVP, we'retalking Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player
of the Year, sixth Man ofthe Year, Most Improved Player, Coach
(03:35):
of the Year, and Executive ofthe Year, which I don't think too
many people care about, but we'regoing to do it in the name of
completeness. I don't know what orderwe're going to go here, but Dan
and I both have are ballots builtout for the top three, with some
honorable mentions for each of the nonMVP awards, and then our top five
as the NBA MVP ballot is actuallystructured for that biggest of individual accolades.
(03:59):
So I have it's set up inorder since I'm leading us through it of
what we did it in the preseason. So we'll start with Executive of the
Year, moved through a Coach ofthe Year, then sixth Man of the
Year, Rookie, Defensive Player ofthe Year, Rookie of the Year Most
Improved MVP. That was a weirdorder we did it. I think we
weren't too interested in Defensive Player ofthe Year at the time. And I'm
not gonna be beyond. I'm notgonna be you know, I'm not gonna
(04:19):
lie. I'm not sure I'm thatinterested in it either. I think people
want to make the in a debate. I don't really think it is.
Noah says in the chat, Idare Damn to Dan to Cape for SGA
for most Improved Player. I darehim. You don't need to dare me,
because it's he's going to So I'mgoing to just want to make that
clear. Let's start with the Executiveof the Year. I'll start with mine
(04:40):
on this one. I think thisis a no brainer, and it's not
the no brainer people have turned itinto. James Jones is number one on
my ballot. Shawn Marks is numbertwo, Daryl Morey is number three.
I'll save you an honorable mentions,so I'll let you talk about those once
you get to yours. For me, just James Jones is the clear number
one for me. It's the ChrisPaul trade was huge. People are putting
(05:01):
Chris Paul in the MVP discussion.James Harten has since fallen out of the
MVP discussion because of availability. That'snot the only good move that James Jones
made. Jay Crowder Tory Craig hasbeen absolutely monstrous for them, getting them
in a position where you have competentplayers. You know this, I guess
gives them credit for years past,But the bringing Dario Sharts back, he
(05:25):
was so good at the five formost of this year, that's kind of
fallen off. I guess if youwant to build a case against him,
you could point out that they didn'tdraft Tyrese Haliburton when he was there,
and could you imagine this team withTyrese Haliburton on it? Just they would
be at it before the season startedand really liked what we saw there,
and then we just didn't get tosee it. I do think the one
(05:45):
thing you can give him credit for, like last season leaking over into this
season, was the way that theystructured the campaign contracts that they could bring
him back. I want players toget paid more than they are, so
I'm not saying I don't want togo, oh, campaign is underpaid?
How great is that? For theSuns, but you roll the dice on
him and put yourself in a positionto keep him, and he's been on
the peripherals of the six man ofthe Year discussion for people who've watched the
(06:08):
Suns anyway, So that's my ballot. I don't think anyone comes close to
touching James Jones. And I knowShawn Marks made the move for Harden,
that's not his only case. BringingBruce Brown been very helpful for them.
Jeff Green has been super helpful forthem. I get all of that.
And then making the hard move therewas a risk, and it became a
necessity when you look at all thegames their stars had missed. But there's
(06:28):
also sort of the element of theno brainer there where it's oh, trade
for a top five player or don'twithout giving up any real stars in the
process. That's not a hard decisionto make. It's not that hard anyway.
Yeah, I mean, I totallyagree, which is why I also
have Shawn Marks at number two andreally a distant second to James Jones at
number one. You know, youmentioned the moves that Marx deserves credit for,
(06:51):
and even if it is a nobrainer, it still took some serious
gumption to actually pull the trigger andacquire James Harden in the middle of a
season, when you already have thestars on board, when you already have
a first year head coach in SteveNash who hasn't had to deal with that
kind of locker room dynamic, atleast in that kind of role. That
(07:11):
coupled with Bruce brown acquisition going intothe season, coupled with bringing in Blake
Griffin, who has looked at leasta little bit reinvigorated. Jeff Green has
been effective, like he did,make enough good moves here that even if
it's low hanging fruit to nominate himfor this award, he definitely deserves the
nomination. I do have a travishlink from the Atlanta Hawks in my number
(07:35):
three spot. I think we've seenas the season has progressed that the offseason
moves, the really aggressive offseason movesthat included bringing in Daniel o' gallinari and
bog Gun Bogdanovich. The in seasonmove of trading for Lou Williams Chris Dunn
signing hasn't really paid off, norhas Tony Snells, but so many of
(07:55):
these moves have started to look betteras the season has progressed. In the
injury have dissipated, allowing the Hawksto play with more of their full rotation
and establish some semblance of consistency ona night tonight basis. Beyond that,
the move from Lloyd Pierce to NateMcMillan in the middle of the year has
had hugely positive repercussions on this team. It enabled the entire rotation to start
(08:20):
playing better, to start playing morecohesive basketball, and it was a huge
inflection point for the Hawks right inthe middle of the season. That has
to matter. My honorable mentions LeonRose and Sam Presty. I think Rose's
candidacy kind of speaks for itself becausethe Knicks have made that leap from bottom
feeder who basically everyone was predicting tomake the playoffs to the number four seed
(08:41):
in Eastern Conference. And meanwhile,Sam Presty has continued to basically force the
NBA to expand the first round becauseno one else has any picks. I'm
so hesitant to give to give creditto Sam Presty just because is the tanking
stuff is veers too far into whatdo we treat and view players as in
(09:05):
that scenario. I'm also it's awkwardto see them tell Al Horford to go
home and face zero repercussions for it, But I totally get it. I
mean, they've he has stacked thedeck for them, and their rebuild is
off to a great start, soI don't begrudge anyone who had picked them,
but I couldn't put him in mytop three. Leon Rose is interesting
in the top three, not oneI gave consideration too, but when you
(09:26):
specifically look at a lot of theone year deals he signed Alec Burke's new
Lands Noel, the Derek Rose tradeend up being everyone including myself, lampooned
the Knicks for that. The onlytruly terrible move they made has been resigning
Alfred Peyton and then continuing to playAlfred Peyton until the six thirty six minute
(09:46):
mark in the first quarter. Sothat's a great pick, and the Schlank
one is sort of a slow burn. I don't know if the Hawks have
been good enough for long enough orhealthy enough, I should say for long
enough. But that was a reallyinteresting one too, and I wonder if
he's going to get some extra lovethat I didn't necessarily consider when I was
building my ballot. I don't thinkhe's going to just because the first half
(10:09):
of the season is still entrenched inpeople's minds. But we've seen that the
moves did pan out once those externalfactors started to be minimized. By the
way, did you see me successfullytake a drink out of what remains of
my drink without spilling it all overmyself? No, I was too busy
freaking out because my teams has notbeen going Teams app has not been going
(10:31):
off at all today because it's aSunday, and it's decided right when we
podcasted that the messages are in coming, so that the beginning you hear in
the background the pining is that.So I was trying to get that out
of the way. But I'm justlistening the livest of our live episodes.
It's fine, don't worry. Youguys are going to get a real prerecorded
All NBA Teams one for anyone who'sstill listening. That comes after the awards
(10:52):
ballot. Thank you for anyone who'ssticking through this. Do you want to
start us off on Coach of theYear. Yeah, it was. I
feel like this award is a toughone every season because Are you recognizing the
best coach in the league? Areyou recognizing the coach who exceeded expectations most
Even though we have this conversation whatseems like every single season, there still
(11:16):
isn't really that established criteria, whichmakes it such a nebulous, difficult to
predict award. So I tend toview it more as a mix of those
two things, like both the coachingquality and the level of improvement which pushed
Tom Thibodeau barely passed Monty Williams andQuinn Snyder. For me, I have
Nate McMillan and Doc Rivers as myhonorable mentions who deserve a lot of credit
(11:39):
for what they've done with their respectiveteams. But I think it's a three
person race for this award, AndI'd really be okay with putting TIBs,
Monty, and Quinn's names and hatsand drawing them out randomly, and that
is a justifiable order. I mean, Thibodeaux has established a culture in New
York, a defense of identity,which is a stark contrast to the biggest
(12:03):
weaknesses of previous iterations of this Knicksorganization. Monty Williams has made Chris Paul,
who is not always the easiest lockerroom presence, into a bona fide
positive leader for this young team thathas excelled and jumped straight into the race
for the top of the Western Conference. And the Jazz have been maybe the
best team in basketball for most ofthis season, with a fairly unorthodox roster
(12:28):
construction for today's NBA that is alsoa deviation from what he's done in the
past. I get arguments for allthree of them. I think that the
establishment of the culture and the failuresof the Knicks over the last few years
were enough context for me to justbarely marginally bumped Tibbs to number one.
(12:50):
Yeah, you have for the unexpectednessof where the Knicks are. I think
wanted out for Tibbs. I hadMonty Williams at the top for a lot
of this. He's number two forme, and I've Clinch Snyder third.
The Jazz are a fucking machine.They just you can talk about whether stuff
will hold up in the in theplayoffs. This is a regular season awards,
so I don't care. But theyjust they're a machine. They've had
(13:11):
Mike Conley and Donovan Mitchell injured fora good chunk of time towards the end
of the year. They still havethe best defense in the league right now,
so and the things you're not goingto be on the court for the
Jazz. This might be Jordan Clarkson'sbiggest six minute year case. By the
way, you don't play minutes ifyou don't try on defense for Utah,
and Jordan Clarson has played a tonof minutes getting ahead of myself there,
But to have something like Jordan Clarksongive that effort too. Yes, you
(13:33):
have the best drop defender in theleague and Rudy Gobert, who everything is
structured around, but to get whatyou have out of that defense when you
just don't have any elite defenders asidefrom Rudy Gobert on your team. So
I give the Jazz is consistency,and I guess it hasn't always been there.
Their transition defense can get iffy,and we've seen you know different cult
tookball on Madonovitch La allowed to getgoing there. They have the best record
(13:54):
in the league, So I don'tknow how you don't have them at least
on here. Tom Thibodeau was numberone for me though, and the Knicks
are fourth. I don't think evenif you saw this lead from Julius Randall
Cumming, or if you don't wantto give him credit for it, which
that's fine too, the Knicks havea top five defense. Why there you
look at look at anyone on thisteam, on this roster, no one
(14:18):
screams this is a top five defensiveteam. It just doesn't. And the
fact that he's yeah, you haveguys who are good on defense, Norlan's
Noel or Mitchell Robinson before he gotinjured. Okay, great, grand wonderful
Franio a Keen that hasn't even playeda ton. So that's almost why I'm
detracting points from TIBs. That's whyit's not a runaway, by the way,
so they're not even playing like necessarilytheir best defensive specialist on the team,
(14:39):
Derek Rose has busted his ass onthe defensive end since coming over.
There's been improvement from Randall. Ithink I've seen the biggest improvement of anyone
on the roster defensively is with RJ. Barrett. And maybe that's to be
expected when you're going from rookie tosophomore, but he's actually been an asset
on that end. I eat thejob he has done there. I'm very
curious to see what happened long termwith the Knicks, just because so many
(15:01):
of the guys seemed like placeholders.What are we you know, how is
Julius Roynod gonna hold up next seasonafter playing so many minutes this year.
I'm not even just trying to troll. I'm genuinely concerned about the sustainability of
what the Knicks have done this season. Specifically, though we both have them
as a bottom five team in theleague coming in this year, they are
now. They might finish with thetenth best record in the league, depending
on how the Sunday games shake out. I think he has to be the
(15:22):
choice money Leams comes close. Ido feel like maybe he's overthought some of
his lineup decisions, though, andthe DeAndre Ayton inconsistency train. I attribute
some of it to him, atleast, just because he's overseeing the team.
I don't look he's finishing too,so I'm not trying to detract from
him. But those are just splittinghairs, That's what I was looking at.
I will say I always feel uncomfortablepicking this award because we are not
(15:46):
in the locker rooms or at practicesseeing how much of the improvement and how
much of the success is actually creditedto the coaches. So it always feels
like an uninformed attempt to be informedwith an award and without caveat out of
the way. I was pretty closeto having McMillan jump into my top three.
(16:07):
I think it's more a tier offour than a tier of three,
just because he took over a teamthat was very much down in the dumps
and struggling to live up to thepreseason expectations. Mid season, a roster
that was dealing with a lot ofinjuries that had prevented continuity. You had
the John Collins situation kind of loomingin the background, like is he going
to demand a trade? Is he'sjust not going to play as effectively because
(16:30):
he knows that he's going to beleaving next season and doesn't want to waste
energy on a team that isn't succeeding. But since he took over, and
I'm assuming that the Hawks beat thetank tastic Houston Rockets this afternoon after we're
recording this, but if they do, they would be twenty seven and eleven
under McMillan, which is a fiftyone win pace over the course of a
(16:53):
seventy two game season, which wouldmatch the number of wins the Jazz have
right now with one game left forthe best record in the league. Like,
that's how good the Hawks have beensince he took over. This is
also the two other things I wouldadd about what makes picking this award as
US problematic. One, we're notthe oh look at this after the time
(17:15):
out play that the coach ran like, that's not our forte and that's can
certainly be part of it for somepeople. And the other thing is I
always have I have to winnow downmy list from like fifteen candidates at the
start, I you know, TaylorJenkins, Nate McMillan, as you already
outlined, he was one of thehonorable mentions for me. I think you
could also make a very strong casefor Doc Rivers because of what Philadelphia has
(17:38):
done this season. People were kindof dumping all over Terry Stotts, but
the Blazer's defense has been legitimately goodsince Yusef Nurkics has been back. Surprise,
surprise, they needed their big manto competently protect the rim. That's
shocking, shocking, Adam. Idon't know how anyone could have seen that
coming. I could talk myself anddo a little bit of love for Steve
Nash injuries in and out of Brooklyn. I know he has the talent and
(18:00):
a great assistant coaching staff. Ialso look at this as a full coaching
staff award, by the way,not just it's awarded a one person,
but it's a coaching staffs award.The Nets are second in the East,
and they've their Big Three is playedwhat seven games together? Eight So that's
another route that you could go,and I could go on, you know,
does James need some love too,Mike Malone, Rick Carlisle. You
(18:23):
could also talk to yourself, JamesRiego. I was mentioning, how has
Charlotte been even close to lead averageon defense this year? So that's what
makes this award especially tough for meas well. Yeah, it's it's a
virtually impossible one to predict, andI think this is one of the rare
seasons where there really isn't a onehundred percent true, bona fide front runner
(18:45):
so much as a front running group, I don't. I think Kids has
to be the front runner. TheKnicks are I haven't looked at the betting
odds or anything. I think,I mean, we both picked him,
but I'd think it's a narrow gap. And I wonder if it's almost like
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Award is on an endorsement we're upto sixth Man of the Year, which
(19:57):
is mine. I'm gonna preface thiswith this, and you can call me
out on this next year, listeners. If my logic is inconsistent when it
comes to the most improved player,I don't like awarding it to year or
two guys, which is why Iwhen d Iron Fox had his Major League
I did not vote for him,even though I was very tempted to,
and for six Man of the Yearthis season, I found it a little
(20:19):
clarney that lou Will and Montras Harroldwere both top three on a ballot last
year, so I was not goingto pick two people from the same team,
which is why I think they're goingto be some people who are angry
with my ballot. If Joe Inglesat one, Tyrese Haliburton at two,
and Tim Hardaway Junior at three awardstechnically are due Monday, I reserve the
(20:42):
right to change for another eight anda half hours. As of this recording,
the third spot was tough for me. Tim Hardaway Junior shooting I think
is super valuable to Dallas. He'salso shooting a career high I believe fifty
two point one percent inside the arcthis year has tried pretty hard on d
His shooting splits can be to relyon Dontech being on the floor, but
(21:03):
you could say that pretty much aboutanyone. Jalen Bronson came put it pretty
close to getting this for me.I also consider Derrick Rose, Daddy is
young, Bobby Portis, Jordan Clarkson. Obviously, Cameron Payne deserves some love
here as well. Joe Ingles wonout for me. I know he started
almost thirty games. That could alsowork in his favor as the argument for
six Man of the Year, whereif you have injuries and need to insert
someone in the starting lineup naturally orat logistically speaking, it would be your
(21:27):
sixth man, wouldn't like the nextguy up would be the sixth man.
I know it doesn't work like that. He's just been so phenomenal. He
has a true shooting percentage of twotrillion as a perimeter player is I think
it's two trillion point seven. That'sa wildly impressive still has the ability to
create a little bit off the dribble. He does still do okay on defense.
(21:48):
This is I don't think he's thesame player who really shut down Paul
George and that okayc series a fewyears ago, but she's such a smart,
accurate player. And then anyone whohas a problem with Tyrey's Albert being
on this ballot, he also didstart I think twenty games this year and
he's out for the season with hisknee injury, but he definitely played enough
to crack it. The dude isshooting over forty percent from three played fantastic
defense as a rookie. Is justa it's not fill the box score because
(22:14):
he's so low volume, but contributein every single area. It was he's
basically the fattiest young of guards excepthe can shoot, and so it's he
was so good that maybe I wantedto reward him because we know he's not
gonna win Rookie of the Year Ihave. If anyone is a problem with
him making his ballot, though theyare, they're free to add me on
Twitter and we can we can havea discussion about it. I'm not going
(22:37):
to change my mind, but wecan have a discussion about it. It
feels like there are roughly four hundredcandidates for this award, right Like you
can name a team and you mighteven have multiple candidates from said team.
Do you know what, something Ithought about really quickly was like they probably
needed to play more. But theKnicks technically have three or four guys that
you could look at and be like, should they be on this? Emmanuel
(22:59):
Quickly, Derrick Rose, Noel didn'tstart for most of the season because or
you know, didn't start until ChadRobinson was injured. And even Alec Burks
did he play enough to get there, but he's been like lights out and
crunch time for them. So thatwas the team where it was. I
think there's one clear guy that yougo with, and it's Derek Rose,
probably, but there were four namesthat's prong to mind just from that team.
(23:21):
Yeah, no, yeah, Iagree with you. I did not
agree with your limitation to one playerper team, just because I think I
viewed this award more as recognizing thebest backup in basketball, not necessarily recognizing
the best first man off the benchin basketball, even if it's technically named
(23:42):
sixth man and not sixth or seventhman. So I did have Joe Ingles
first for all the same reasons thatyou listed out. I had Jordan Clarkson
third. I think despite the inefficiencywith which he's played during the second half
of the season. The scoring rolethat he's filled is so valuable and necessary.
They need somebody who's willing to comeoff the bench and take those difficult
(24:03):
shots and put pressure on defense offthe bounce. So regardless of the efficiency
numbers there, I think it's prettyclear how important he's been to that team.
I had Jalen Brunson and Thaddeus Youngas my honorable mentions, and I
had Derek Rose at number two onmy ballot. I strongly considered moving him
up to number one. You know, we talked about it a little bit
before we began recording. What hedid in Detroit is just not enough for
(24:30):
him to ascend to that number onespot. He wasn't making the team better,
he wasn't shooting the ball with anysemblance of efficiency while he was a
member of the Pistons. But whathe's done in thirty five games with the
Knicks has been immaculate. I mean, this team is eleven point nine points
per one hundred possessions better with himon the floor, and that does not
(24:52):
seem like a fluke. He's playingI would argue, the smartest basketball of
his career. He's not forcing theissue he's accepted that his peak level of
athleticism just isn't quite there anymore.He's a willing passer, he's a more
committed defender. Every He's checked allthe boxes, and I would say that
he has unquestionably been the best backupplayer in the NBA since he joined the
(25:19):
Knicks. And it's a volume issuethat keeps me from putting him ahead of
Joe Ingles for number one, ButI damn sure thought about doing it,
And if you have followed me onTwitter or on this podcast for any amount
of time, you know that itwas really hard for me to do that,
but his play has justified it.Yeah, I think it's strictly a
(25:41):
for me. It was just aplaying time thing, where all the other
guys on this list have played significantlymore more minutes, and it was everyone
written. And I think we needto discuss why Jordan Clarkson isn't third for
you, or wasn't on my ballotfor the past like thirty something games,
is shooting under thirty two percent fromthree. There's definitely value in the shots
(26:02):
that he's taking, and as you'vementioned, there's high utility in that volume
scoring role. I just think theperception was He's going to run away with
this award, and that was atthe beginning of the season, and we've
yet to move off it. Realityis kind of caught up to that take,
and I don't I don't think it'swrong if he wins. I'm actually
not sure who's gonna win this award. Everyone still assumes it's going to be
(26:23):
him. Maybe it will be Ithink it's fair game to discuss other players,
especially when you have Joe Ingles hasthe highest true shooting percentage in NBA
history among anyone, who's right,among anyone who's ever averaged fifteen points at
least fifteen points for thirty six minutesand five assists for thirty six minutes,
the highest true shooting percentage of inNBA history. I'm on that group.
(26:45):
Do you know who's in second place? No, but you're gonna tell me.
Stephen Curry owns the second and thirdmost efficient seasons, rounded out in
the top five by Steve Nash atfour and John Stockton at five. Pretty
decent company. I suppose Noah inin the locker room comments says listening to
Adams slowly turn into a Knicks fanhas been beautiful yeah, I suppose that's
(27:07):
kind of what's happened this season.Like i've I've very much bought into this
team, but no, I promiseyou that I will reverse course starkly during
the upcoming first round of the playoffs. That's great that the chats are not
updating for me in locker room.I had no idea that he had said
anything, So it looks like myapp is frozen, which I hope this
means we get the audio for this. Talk about another live podcasting whatever.
(27:33):
Anyway, you want to move onto the next award, which would be
Defensive Player of the Year, andit's yours to take. Are we saving
m IP for a second to orthird to last? None? Yes?
Okay, uh yeah? Is therea discussion here? It's Rudy Gobert like
that. That's it. He's thedefensive system. Unto himself. He is,
without question, the best drop coveragedefender in the league today, maybe
(27:57):
the best in that role of alltime. Don't think that's hyperbolic at this
point. He despite what people wantto say about him being played off the
court in previous postseasons, which Istill think there's more to it than simplifying
it into just that one statement.He is a dominant defense when he's on
(28:18):
the court by himself, regardless ofwho you put around him, and no
one should really touch him in thisaward. Yet again, the only reason
it might be even somewhat close isif voter fatigue comes into play. I
have Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid,both from the same team, in second
and third. I have Jannisandakoumpo anddam Adabaio in fourth and fifth, So
(28:40):
honorable mentions for me. I haveto give a shout out to Miles Turner
as well. Had he played morethis season, I think that he could
have worked his way into that topthree. But this is Gobert running away,
and I don't think much much justificationis necessary. Like just go read
the piece that Ben Dawsett wrote onfive thirty eight the other day where for
once in a blue moon, allthe defensive metrics agree that he's having a
(29:04):
historic season. That doesn't happen.That's telling. The volume of shots he
contests at the room, combined withthe efficiency he's allowing there is easily historical.
He was first in my ballot,followed by Ben Simmons and the Nive
Draymond Green at third. The Warriorshave quietly had, relative to this season,
a very good defense, and heremains the hardened soul of it.
And he's just one of the smartone of the probably one of the smartest
(29:27):
defenders in the NBA history, definitelythe smartest defender of his generation. And
just everything he does, what hecan do when he's small, when he's
gonna give you all that week sidehelp and directing everyone else, just absolutely
huge. And I don't know ifhe is a case to be any higher
than three. I'm curious to seeif if anyone will ever put him in
the top three, or how manytop three votes he actually gets. Ben
(29:48):
Simmons's versatility is there's the thought processthat you can't impact defense as much as
a perimeter player because the shots thata lot of these guys take they're gonna
make anyway. He's really difficult jump, but I still think there's an immense
value in being able to defend everyposition. And he doesn't spend too much
time on big bigs, but heguards one through four pretty regularly, and
(30:11):
he is more so than anyone elseon the perimeter, maybe a locked in
Kauai. You have o Gianna Nobion there too when you're looking at on
ball defenders. But he can racereally good players from from the planet and
we've seen him do it in theplayoffs before too. I don't think though,
that he is like a real caseover Rudy Gobert, and like you
(30:33):
said, maybe there is that fatiguewith Cobert. There's also the belief that
he can be played off the floorin the playoffs, which is also not
true. There was a very specificmatchup that was a problem for him.
That matchup no longer exists because ofHouston and Utah kind of figured out a
way to keep him on the floorin that series they ended up losing.
So I it's the perception there's veeredtoo far away from reality. That's another
(30:56):
instance of that. So I thinkhe should be the clear winner, and
I don't know that anyone could convinceme it should be Ben Simmons over him.
As convoluted as this statement may seem, I think you can make a
case that Ben Simmons is the bestdefender in basketball because of the wide variety
(31:18):
of roles he's able to fill withoutsacrificing his level of performance and the impact
that he can make across the board, but Rudy Gobert has a much more
important role. And it's as simpleas that, Like, it's great to
have that guy who can guard everyposition, who can seamlessly switch around the
perimeter and on the interior and impactpassing lanes and do everything that Ben Simmons
(31:41):
does so well. But having adominant room protector who can also hedge out
to the perimeter and deter three pointshots and still manage to drop back and
impact plays around the rim on thevery same possession, that's just so much
more important than anything else in today'sNBA. So Gobert is an absolute master
of his more specific craft. Andif you want to say that Ben Simmons
(32:05):
is the best defender in the NBAbecause of how many different things he can
do well, like, go forit. But this is a value award.
I'm totally with you there, andI liked your automble mentions there definitely,
and beat that he played more mighthave been higher on my ballot,
Jana said. The Coupo is someonethat people have slept on. There.
He's doing more than just disrupting playsas a helper this year as the Bucks
(32:27):
have switched on a more frequent basis, so, but they're just to me
as a tree reiter rate. Theredoesn't appear to be a debate. There
also doesn't appear to be a debateon this next award, which we should
be able to blow through. Asidefrom my runner up and I believe you're
runner up as well. Looking ofthe year, this one is mind to
begin with, I have a Meloballat one. Quick question, would you
have had the meloball at one hadhe not played another game this season?
(32:52):
Yes? Yeah, me too.I have Tyrese Haliburton at number two and
Anthony Edwards at number three. Ithink people and what we know people because
dumb Dan, by the way,are going to be mad that he's in
third. That first of all,considering where the point from which he was
starting, he was so bad onoffense for such a huge chunk of the
(33:14):
year. That he worked his wayat the third is a testament to him,
a harbinger of how far he hascome. But the first part of
the season absolutely happened. And soyou look at like, I don't know
if you can pinpoint the exact turningpoint for him, really, but if
you look at his first thirty sixgames of the season, thirty point two
(33:36):
percent on threes, thirty seven pointone percent from the floor overall, had
almost as many turnovers as assists,under fifteen points per game. That that
was fine. There was a marketedshift in the way that he was playing,
and those first thirty six games,which is half of the season,
they happened. And for Tyrese Haliburtonnot as flashy as a score, but
(33:58):
he does everything else and he wasmore efficient and more consistent throughout the entire
year. Do I think that he'sgoing to have the higher ceiling than Anthony
Edwards. I don't think it's impossible, but I would bet against it.
So, but this is not along term award. This is this season
specifically, and I think Tyrese Burtonprovided more end to end value than Anthony
(34:21):
Edwards. And he did just abunch of his work in the latter half,
which is you know, it's it'sgreat, and I don't want to
dismiss what he's done. It was. It was a half season's body of
exceptional work, though maybe a littlebit longer. It's all about how you
frame this award. Is it thelevel a player reached in his final game
as a rookie or is it whoadded the most value, was the best
(34:44):
player from start to finish. Itend to think it should be the ladder,
which is why my ballot is exactlythe same as yours. In the
top three, with LaMelo Ball atnumber one, Tyrese Haliburton at number two,
and Anthony Edwards at number three.I have Emmanuel Quickly and Jay Shawn
Tate among a litany of option asmy primary honorable mentions here. But yeah,
just to expand on Anthony Edwards,we had I'm trying to look up
(35:07):
who it was who asked this,and I'm not able to find it at
the moment, but we had somebodyask if they could see how Anthony Edwards
is TPA has progressed from the startof his rookie season through this point,
and you know, we did putthat out. It's on the NBA math
Twitter feed and you can see justhow much his score is plummeting into the
(35:30):
negatives. But then in mid March, from that point through the present,
he has actually been a plus.He has had positive TPA from that point,
which means that he has played likean above average NBA player. No
I'm not saying TPA is a perfectmetric, it's definitely not, but measuring
relative. I appreciate that you're wrong. I appreciate it. Dumb Dan strikes
(35:54):
again, But yeah, I meanjust to rookies aren't supposed to be above
average players. Haliburton and LaMelo Ballper TPA are the only ones and quickly
as well, I believe, whohave managed to maintain that throughout their rookie
season. And for Edwards to dothat when he's taking so many shots and
(36:15):
filling such a difficult role for anot great Minnesota Timberwolves team, that's a
situation designed to trip up virtually everyfirst year player in NBA history, and
he has taken on that level ofresponsibility and turned himself into a positive contributor
this quickly. That's why he's thereat number three despite being historically inefficient during
(36:37):
the first half of the season.Yeah, the volume matters that he's putting
up. Yeah, the flashy highlightreal dunks matter. But like, he
wasn't a good player for the firsthalf of the season, and this is
not he reached this level. Award, Like, if you're asking me to
rank the futures of these players,it's probably a debate between LaMelo and Edward
(37:00):
at number one, and then Haliburtonnext and then everyone else. But that's
not what this is. Who isWho do you think the fourth best rookie
was? I think Quickly probably betweenthat most impressed me and this might make
people angry. I'm probably between Quicklyand as I already mentioned, I would
(37:22):
consider putting Quickly on the first teamof all rookie and I had him on
second after we first did it.But Isaiah Stewart is there for me,
up there, Steque Bays up there, Jayshawn Tate for sure. I mean,
he was on my honorable mentions,So I'm just curious. That's like
the more interesting debate is Okay,we have that those are the top three,
(37:44):
regardless of how you order them.I mean, if if someone wanted
to say that Haliburton is the rookieof the year, or he wants to
make the case for Edwards because theywant to look at the difficulty of Edwards'
role for most of the year,the fact he played more, it's that's
you know, I'll listen to it, all right, but those are the
top three, and there's just sothere's not really wiggle room. I think
(38:07):
you could. You know, somepeople might make a case for. Yeah,
Patrick Williams, I think you canmake a case for if you want
to go forth best rookie. Sothere's just a bunch. Can you shouldn't
you can? I'm just saying Iwas curious to see what you had there.
Yeah, I mean I think anyiteration of those top three is justifiable.
Anything else like, I'm sorry,but it's just wrong. Are you
(38:30):
ready to have a as his team'sthings still goes off in the background,
are you ready to have a funfact quickly about not Emanuel quickly, but
Tyree's Haliburton, the rookie of theyears, the past five of them to
match his value over replacement player?Have any yes? Many of them?
(38:51):
Can you name? Would you careto take a stab or you just want
me to read the list? Let'sjust hear him. He has a value
over a place a player of warpof one four the past five rookies to
match or exceed that, Brandon Clarklast season, Luca don chich in twenty
eighteen, twenty nineteen, Mitchell Robinsonin twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, Donovan Mitchell
(39:12):
in seventeen eighteen, and then BenSimmons and Jason Tatum tied in twenty seventeen
twenty eighteen as well, So it'ssix across those years that's you got to
qualify for the minutes per game leaderboard. I don't think he's gonna have the
ceiling of most of those players.That's super encouraging company though, for sure.
I mean we Haliburton was our pickgoing into the season. I believe
I really wish the Knicks the wouldtaken and even the top topping has been
(39:35):
better. No, if you're stillin the room because my app has frozen,
I hope you at least agree withwith that Knicks take the next award.
I have penciled in probably a littlebit more of a there's not really
a debate here. I have themost improved player. There's not a debate
at the top. It's Julius Randall. We've talked about it on previous episodes.
No one else should really touch himin this conversation. I think it's
the rest of the ballot that's mostinteresting. So I have Jeremy Grant at
(40:00):
number two. Just the ability tocome into Detroit and take on a massively
expanded role that really pushed the limitationshe had as a player, and to
thrive in it prior to getting injuredwas huge. I mean, he seemed
like the early front runner, andjustifiably so. Number three, I actually
have Nicola Yokich. It doesn't Youtypically don't see those star level players show
(40:25):
up on most improved Player ballots.I think, erroneously to me, twenty
fifteen sixteen, Steph Curry twenty eighteennineteen Janisan to Decumbo should have been mp
candidates because the level at which theywere playing rose so dramatically, which pushed
them into not just getting into theMVP race, but actually winning it.
(40:47):
That's what we're seeing here, whereYokich was a top ten player last year
who's now being talked about by reputableoutlets as maybe the best basketball player in
the world. He has risen hislevel of play dramatically and virtually every area,
most impressively as a scorer, wherehe's no longer as deferential and looking
(41:09):
to pass quite as frequently, butas it's actively calling his own number.
Those baseline spins are just flat outunstoppable. He's not going to be on
the ballot for most people, butif you're talking about looking at how much
value a player added this season andcomparing it to how much value a player
added last season, he should bethere behind him. As my honorable mentions,
(41:31):
I have Shaygil Just Alexander, whoprobably would have been in the top
three had he not gotten injured.Maybe I'm not quite sure. I also
have Michael Porter Jr. And Iknow that second year players aren't typically put
in this conversation because they're expected toimprove, But you just look at what
(41:51):
he's done for this Nuggets team andstaving off the expected precipitous drop off that
should have occurred after Jamal Murray wentdown, and by expanding his game and
becoming that much more vital to everythingthat Denver has done, he has starkly
improved more than you would typically expectfrom a second year player, even one
(42:12):
who had that red shirt season ashe was recovering from his back injury during
what should have been his true rookieseason. The Michael Porter Jr. I
have the similar ballot to you.I have Julius Randall up front ahead of
Jeremy Grant, who I had aNumber one for a lot of the year,
him mincing time with an injury certainlyhurt him. It got to a
point that where his deficiency up deficiencywhere his efficiency declined, and his growth
(42:35):
was strictly as a score like hewas not someone passing. The assist numbers
went up by virtue of him justhaving the ball more. It wasn't him
improving as a passer. And JuliusRandall was throwing all different kinds of passes
and was the engine. Is theengine of the Knicks offense. Might not
be the greatest offense, it's beenmore efficient over the second half of the
year. I had Shay Gilches Alexanderin third, and I'm kind of convinced
(42:57):
that had he stayed healthy for therest of the year year, that I
would have landed with Shay Gildert Alexanderand first. And so, Noah,
if you're still in the room again, I cannot see anything on locker room
rolling through blind. Kept my screenopen because this is being recorded, so
I see the time going up.That's all I see. He when you
look at how his role changed,he went from being this secondary tertiary option
(43:21):
number two or number three his firsttwo years to being number one, and
his efficiency actually improved this year,eighty seven point one percent of his shots
were unassisted. And if I'm regurgitatingthe numbers, these numbers from past podcasts,
One they're that important and two,he's been injured for so long that
there's nothing else to talk about.He to hold that into efficiency over such
(43:42):
a difficult role where you don't haveanother creator on your team. Can you
guess who is second? Or canyou guess who leads the team in unassisted
field goal shares since he's been injured? Like basically, yes, Nice Basley
and Tayo Maladone are like deadlocked highnone. Neither of them are over They're
(44:06):
not even at sixty percent of theirfield goal makes going on assisted. That's
you know, not every team necessarilyneeds that, but there's always that one
player that has like three feels liketwo thirds or three cores of shots going
assistant. No one in the NBAwho appeared in a minimum of fifteen games
has a higher unassisted field goals maderate than Shaquilis Alexander. The only other
players in the league who are matchinghis scoring and assist per game while shooting
(44:30):
as well on twos and threes,Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry. When you
look at then what Shay does defensively, he has not had to guard the
number one option as often as youwould think someone like him would because you
have you know, Ludor exists.That's the best way to put it.
Ludor exists. But he finds himselfon number two and number three a hell
(44:51):
of a lot. He can bedisruptive on that and probably isn't where he
should be. And I don't knowthat he improved, but the fact that
he held his value there while assumingsuch a higher usage role on off fence
is important to me. That wouldbe my case from over Julius Randall again,
had Shay played longer. I thinkJulius Randall's supporting cast is exponentially better
than what say guild Just Alexander hadround for Morse of the Year. Georgia
wasn't playing a reason ever reported theywere always kind of treating al Horford with
(45:15):
kid gloves. So I think hehad a real case to win it,
not just make the top three hadhe knock gotten injured. How many picks
do you think Sam Presty is goingto get for Shay Gildes Alexander when he
shopped WHOA, you think he's gonnashop him? No, don't you max
him out this season? Right?Absolutely? My prediction for that is they
max him out with no player options. And that's the concession that he sort
(45:37):
of makes because I don't know ifI feel like you and I consider him
a no brainer Max, I'm notsure if everyone else does. I don't
know if that's like at the pointthey should. I'm totally an agreement,
although Planner or Fascia is like,that's not something to really write off,
and so maybe that factors into it. The final award, which is mine
(45:58):
to start, it's MVP, andthis is not interesting until we got to
the runner ups, Nicole Yokits,let's start there. N the order of
them is to him. I guessNicole Yokis is number one for me.
Adam did not have him number one. He in fact did not even make
your top five, right, Yeah, he was ninth on my ballot.
(46:19):
I don't what is the argument againstNicole Yokis at this point that he historically
wouldn't stock up against the previous twentyfive winners of the award or some bullshit
like that. There isn't one.It doesn't exist at this point, I
think the only thing you could makeis if you threw playing time out the
window. You could argue Joel Embiadat a higher per minute impact because of
(46:43):
what he can do defensively, butthe minutes gap is monstrous. Right,
So, as someone who had JoelEmbiad in front at the beginning of the
year, I haven't at number two. I've ye honest at number three,
which talk about fatigue. We've overlooked. You mentioned him in the defensive Player
of the Year conversation. He shouldprobably make all defense. I'm not sure.
We haven't gone through those yet.We will. And he's scoring is
(47:07):
he's basically posting the same numbers aslast year. I think he's improved a
bunch as a passer. We're seeinghim do more things on offense, maybe
not as efficiently, but he stilldoes have He's gonna take the pull up
jumpers, he's gonna take those fadeaways. He's being used as a screener more
those. The numbers on him beingused as a screener are very touch and
go. But the fact that he'sdoing it and he's not even finishing plays
a bunch. As that the factthat that option just sort of exists and
(47:29):
maybe could be used as a decoyla little bit. I think it's huge.
There's you know there, you can'twe talk about two way value.
How many more players are valuable,more valuable at both ends on the floor
than him? You can count themon one hand if you even need that
much. I have Steph at numberfour. Probably the most controversial inclusion.
I think people focus too much onteam record. When you look at everyone
(47:51):
who has logged at least two hundredand fifty minutes this year, no one
has a bigger net rating swing thanStephen Curry. Like, the drop off
between the Warriors minutes with him withouthim is huge, gargantuan, incomprehensible.
Even he lists them from being theworst team in the league to an actual
playoff team. That is, Ithink the lift that Yokich has made a
(48:13):
good team to a great one whenhe's on the court. I do think
that's harder. It was the argumentwith Joannis last year, the one that
Steph is doing. Though, that'sfrom that's ground zero to competency, obscurity
to relevance. That's a hugely difficultone to make, and I've done it.
At five I'm wondering if he shouldeven be higher than that a little
(48:34):
bit, just he is everything tothe Dallas Mavericks. Still we talk about,
like, you know, the workloadthat Nicole Yokich has, that Shay
gils Auxander has, like he istaking. He creates everything from scratch for
the Dallas Mavericks, and he salvagesmany shooting splits for Dallas because so many
players depend on him to create setup to tee up looks for them.
(48:54):
We talked about him a little biton the All Hardwoodknots team when we didn't
have him on the first team,and I think it's the same argument here
where it's like the Dallas Mavericks havenot lived up to preseason expectations, which
had them maybe ascending towards the topspot in the Western Conference, earning home
court advantage in the first round andall that, and don Chich was the
(49:15):
betting favorite for MVP going into theseason. So as magnificent and important as
he's been, he's viewed through thenarrative lens of disappointment, and I think
that might be why he's not makingeither of our ballots. I'll also say
I'm glad that you went first year, because I'm feeling so much MVP fatigue
this season, Like the number ofways people have tried to relitigate Yokich's obvious
(49:39):
placement at number one has been sodraining and exhausting that I've lost almost all
desire to talk about this particular award. So I'll just run through my ballot
here. I have Yokich at numberone, I have Steph at number two,
I have Yannis at number three,I have embat at number four,
and I do have Chris Paul atnumber five. Just the culture change that
(49:59):
he's impact did in Phoenix, theability to make everyone, maybe with the
exception of DeAndre Aiden around him,that much better and make life easier for
Devin Booker. It's so important.I get why he's been mentioned in MVP
conversations. I think it's ridiculous thathe's been put in the top three or
been billed as this somewhat legitimate challengerto Yokich when one of those doesn't really
(50:21):
exist. But he deserves a lotof credit this year. You know,
you could, you could put DonChich in that spot. I really strongly
considered putting Damian Lillard in that spot. You could have Booker if you wanted
to. You could have Riady Gobertif you wanted to. But I'm gonna
go with CP three. That's reallythe only well. I mean, your
ballot was so similar in mine,I don't know how I can have a
problem with it. CP three isthe only If I was to be spicy,
(50:43):
I don't think he belongs anywhere nearthe top five. I wouldn't think
Booker does either, because the culturechanged again last year in the bubble.
You saw it with the way thatMonty Williams did was changing the team,
and I think he's he deserves alot of credit for how good they are
this year. There are other movesmade we talked about them when discussing James
Jones that help this team. Ifyou take Chris Paul off this Phoenix Guns
roster, and okay, bring backall the players that they gave up to
(51:06):
get him, Kelly Ubray, RickyRubio, and Ty Jerome, this is
the best supporting cast that Devin Bookerhas ever had by far and away.
Even so, that's where I could, I would put Gobert there before him.
I'd put Game there before him.I think him and Booker are probably
the most equitable one two partnership inthe league. Maybe a fully healthy Kevin
Durant and James Harden, which wedid not see pretty much. Ever,
(51:27):
I think Gobert and Dono Mitchell werepretty much there. But when you look
at the minute's disparity, but threethose two, that's where it sort of
strays away. We covered all theawards, though, did we not?
We did? We've hit them all. Is there any question? Again?
I cannot see with have it?Do we have any questions or anything in
the chat before we get the fout? We do not. My only
question for you is when was thelast time Lebron James was not top five
(51:52):
on an MVP palot? Holy hell? I mean this has Is this the
most games he's missed? And therewas the first because he had that first
it's the longest absence of his career. But yeah, he actually did finish
eleventh in twenty eighteen nineteen. Yeah, but beyond that, you have to
go back to two thousand and fivewild and look, had he never gotten
(52:13):
injured, is he probably top threein this I think if he never got
injured, you're looking at a lotof people trying to push him ahead.
Of yokich I meant on legitimate ballots, not the ones that happened. Here's
my thing. I'm not rewarding LebronJames in twenty twenty one for what he's
done. It's impressive over the pasttwo decades, basically, but it's about
(52:35):
this year, and I don't thinkhe was snubbed in other years. At
least a Derek Rose Dwight Howard yearthat's for sure should have been a Lebron
year. But he was legitimately inthe conversation until Yoki ran away with it
and he Yogis just ended up checkingtoo many boxes. The Jamal Murray injury
devastating, but it helped him inthe sense that you want the narrative,
(52:55):
oh, like does the most withthe least type deal. You just lost
the second best player on your team, your second most fightaball offensive player,
and yeah, Michael Porter Junior steppedup, but the Nuggets have still been
good without Murray. This should beone of those seasons like Lebron in twenty
thirteen or Stephn twenty sixteen, whereit's like there's just not even a question.
(53:15):
Yeah, and this one's gonna besplit though it's not even I don't
think it's gonna be close to unanimous, because I think people are gonna push
embiid, They're gonna push Curry.Those feel like the three, like the
agenda driven ones. It feels likethis one shouldn't be hard to pick at
all. Yo Yo gets probably gonnaget like a couple of random one off
votes for Julius Randall. That's fine. Oh that did you consider him in
(53:35):
the top five at all? No? Looking at the other players, I
didn't either, top ten. Maybehe's definitely for sure for sure. That
does it for us, though,if you have not checked out this podcast
before and are listening at the momentHardwood Knox at Hardware Knox, but exactly
like it sounds on Twitter, subscribeto us. Listen to us. We
have a bunch of fun other stuff. You will get podcasts we've already done
(53:57):
for our regular listeners. We've doneall Rookie, We've not done awards.
We will be doing all NBA andall defense as well until next time.
Though, we give you it toshout out to the one the only unanimous
executive of the year, James Jones. Thatlle felt right. Nobody builds five
g like Verizon builds five G becausewe're the engineers who built the most reliable
(54:22):
network in America. And the moreyou do with five G, the more
building it right matters, the moreyour network matters, The more Verizon engineers
going the extra mile matters. It'sus pushing us. It's Verizon versus Variezy.
Five G built right from America's mostreliable network, most reliable based on
rankings from Metrics second half twenty twentyUS report of three mobile networks. Results
(54:44):
may vary. Award is not anendorsement
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