2025 NBA Media Day Takeaways

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
What is up, Fela Sikos, I am Dan Favali coming
at you with my certified fantabulous He has lost ten
percent of his body fat while gaining fifteen pounds of
muscles since we last recorded, not even over the offseason,
but since we last recorded. Co host mister Grant Hughes,

(00:25):
every single NBA media day is in the books. Training
camps are officially open, so we are going to talk
about takeaways, questions, observations, and we're excited to anyone who
joins us since we kind of just threw this up,
not randomly, but we warned you, but we didn't schedule it.
We threw it up. So if anyone's here has comments,
we might try to get to them in the chat.
But first, before we talk about a new NBA season beginning, Grant,

(00:49):
give me your five best Giannis trade. I mean, Grant,
how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, I'm jealous that Caitlin Cooper the Goat made the
joke already of just like to announce that I'm in
the exact same shape of my life or some version
of that. It's like, yeah, we're all We're all there.
I did you feel like there was a lot of
best shape of mine. We will get to some players
that grew allegedly. That's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
But yeah, it's hype watch now it's not muscle.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
And then skinny watch for a few people. Yeah, it's
I've I kind of feel like baseball does an even
more egregious best shape in my life spring training thing
than the NBA does. Really yeah, oh, it's just like
every it is the same thing. Everyone's fifteen pounds of muscle,
which is like physically impossible, Like it just over a

(01:38):
three month span. It's like not even like you'll do
that two years. That's incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I don't think that even but the only sport would
make some sense but even it doesn't is the NFL's
off season is forever, right, and that's the one where
it's But even that is just that's such a short
amount of time to pack on ten pounds.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Can't do it. Can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I could back on ten pounds in just a couple
of days. It won't be muscled though.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
That's pretty easy. Yeah, I mean that it's the way
you eat. I don't know if people know about what
you're capable of, but.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh yeah we should. That would be that would be
a good live show is we're podcasting and I have
one of my epic bowls of like brown rice.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Post or something that's paywall. Yell, let's just start, Dan,
Let's go to uh some Golden State Warriors slash Al
Horford stuff. Great question posed by you. Is he legally
allowed into Chase Cinrio? It's funny like the verbiage Chams
had Horford, Melton, and Peyton all in some order. The

(02:35):
verbage was like have agreed to or have are prepared
to commit to and just basically not saying they've signed
because they can't because the kaminga thing is hanging over everything?
Was your read on this? Is this too cynical that
my read on this? The timing of this being leaked,
I guess to Schams, even though everybody knows who the
Warriors are gonna get when everything settles, was just kind

(02:57):
of like them projecting to coming and his management that like, hey,
things are happening, man like with or without you, we're
just over here getting business done. You know, come back
to the table when you're ready. It felt that way
to me a little bit, because like this has been
known forever and now like the you know a couple
of days before the October first deadline for qualifying offer

(03:19):
stuff this comes out, it felt it felt deliberately timed
to me.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I think that you could be right. I actually didn't
read it that way. Initially. I thought it was more
so they were going to announce the minimum signing so
that these guys could be at training camp, although we
didn't hear about Seth Curry yet, and I thought they
were kind of doing a solid for Al Horford to
not the optics not be oh, you're this valuable free agent,
but you're still just floating around unsigned on the market.

(03:44):
Maybe as a combination of both, yours seems to make
more sense, But yeah, it's it's just hysterical. And also
the way that things are getting worded, like when you're
reading reporters or listening to them on TV, the amount
of hedging that goes on, it's like a quadruple negative
at this point. It's like seems intent on possibly potentially
signing with the Golden State Warriors or something.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I mean it's that. And then
Schaums gets a lot of heat for like how the
posts that he writes are written. And I'll just say
he deserves it because they don't make a lot of
sense most of the time.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
So it was if his writing was put through the
team of editors that reads my work, I just I
feel like they would they would cut down on a
lot of the words there. So that's just rough stuff
for him.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
So these aren't like an answer to the question, is
Al Horford legally loud in the Chase Center? I don't know,
because I don't think he's technically on the team yet, right, Like,
I guess he could be like a guest. He probably
needs a guest pass and has to sign in at
security at this point. Let's assume this all gets done
and the cominga situation resolves somehow in which he's still
on the team. I kind of love the Horford fit,

(04:54):
and I kind of love the Melton fit because we
got like just a shred of proof of concept for
Melton last year he started a couple of times. Who
knows what the acl but the Horford fit in particular,
like that's that's great, right, Like there's no other than
he's old and the whole team is old, but like
it's kind of a perfect fit.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
I think, yeah, I think aside from if they think
they need to overtax him because of how important it
is to have spacing at the five with Jimmy Butler
and Draymond Green, and then assuming Jonathan Minga is in
the equation, this is just a fantastic fit and they
can run certain offensive actions through him too, especially if
Steph is off the floor. It's once it becomes official,

(05:32):
I think it becomes one of the best signings of
the summer. But the other thing here is, just like Grant,
when is the Jonathan Kaminga situation actually going to end?
Is it? Do you think that the drop dead date
is October first, which is when his qualifying offer would expire.
They could agree to, of course extend that, but I
don't know at that point for the Warriors, it's okay,

(05:54):
so we'll just not let Al Horford like be with
the team for training camp and learn our core tenants.
I don't, I don't get it.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
But my guess was always that Kuminga's side has known
forever like which of the available offers they were gonna take,
and they were just gonna take it to October first,
no matter what. That's not that's just my that's just
a guess. That's because like I don't I don't understand, Like,

(06:20):
it's not like there's been any movement really, right, we
got this like, well the Kings are interested, and then
immediately it was like but also no traction, So like
there's never been a change in circumstances over the course
of this thing. We know what the offers are. There's
three like basic ones on the table from Golden State,
and like there hasn't been any negotiation for a long time.

(06:41):
So I assume that by October first this would just
get done one way or the other. It is true
that this deadline could be extended, but I think from
the Warriors perspective, it's just like we got to get
guys in camp and kind of get started, right, So, like,
I don't know what the what the solution is if
this does go beyond October first, I don't. I don't,
like what what do you what do you do? Like

(07:03):
does Kaminga just remain a free agent and not play
or make any money? Like I don't, I don't know
what the what the endgame is?

Speaker 1 (07:11):
What have your thoughts changed on what you think is
the either most likely outcome or the best deal, the
best middle ground deal for the parties that are Like
we know all these things that are on the table,
the three minus one, the the one plus one he wants.
It sounds like a two plus one, or maybe they
only want a one plus one.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
It doesn't it feel like maybe the two year the
straight two years kind of feels like the middle ground
because the it you gotta admit, like the Warriors are
playing very hardball by insisting on a team option, and
that's like just not.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Plus waiving the implicit no trade.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yeah. Yeah. The team option is not something that you
typically see. I don't think you see that often with
the player like at this age and at this like
sort of state of his like contractual life in the NBA.
It's like it's Fred van Vliet getting one a couple
of years ago because he's older and who knows what
the Rockets want to do, and or it's like I'm
trying to think of other notable team options, Like the

(08:03):
player option is by far the more common thing, especially
for a young and early twenties guy that you know,
so I don't they're not gonna I don't think they're
giving him a player option, And if I'm him, I'm like,
the team option does feel like a little like aggressive,
So maybe it's just the straight two years for forty
five or whatever it is that I don't know that
that'd be my guess as of today. But I haven't

(08:25):
had a feel for this the whole time.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Andrew will It says always spacing at the five with
Post and Al. Look at Andrew will It out here
mentioning Quinton Posts beat us.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
The Quinton Post mentioned.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Can't overtax alif Post is playing forty, numbers on Quinton
Post aren't the worst it yet.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
I mean nine point four three point times per thirty six,
so think cranking up to forty is getting ten three.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
Picking up the team option was arguably the single best
move that any team made.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
This argument here you want to move on to the
Sixers here and Quentin grime stuff the other the other
the restricted free agency saga.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
This seems like it's just gonna end with him signing
a balloon one year payment, now, right.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Is that what you think?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
I haven't even less like cogent grasp of what is
happening with this one, because the offers from the Sixers
are so crazy. The four for thirty nine just seems like,
I just it's insane to me that they're offering anything
below the mid level, Like I just mid level money.
I don't understand that that's I mean, if anything, this
is the harder hardball being played. The Warriors are playing hardball.

(09:30):
But that's a wild offer.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
That didn't like that is an insulting offer, Like it's
just just someone in the front office like snorted a
laxative pill and then just went like, let's just through
this out as a stab in the darks to see
if it were I just how do you present that
with a straight face or a serious tone. However, it
was sent out there, which is why because it's been
confirmed now by like two or three outlets, I sort
of wondered, Oh, they're gonna take this to October first.

(09:55):
Maybe they're the team that extends it. They got guys
who are banged up anyway, Quentin Grimes at least, like
you know, he's played for the hemisol if is a
new free agent they're trying to hammer things out with,
so you push that, but it it sort of feels
like I thought he was going to be the one
that signed his qualifying offer or got like a real
multi year deal, and now I just kind of think
that they're going to sign him for like, I don't know,

(10:15):
sixteen or eighteen million bucks on the one year deal,
and then the team that trades room can just hope
that one hundred and twenty percent raise off that would
be enough to keep him. What I find most interesting though,
is that doesn't it seem like the Sixers are trying
to negotiate this with the intent of trading him now?

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Well, I mean, at this point you've maybe pissed him
off so much that you sort of have to. That's
not unlike the cominga situation where it's like you're kind
of if the relationship wasn't wrecked, it sort of is
now because of how these negotiations have gone, so you
almost by default have to treat him as a trade
ship as opposed to a player you intend to put
in your rotation. I do think it's interesting, like, who

(10:52):
do you think, between Kaminga and Grimes is most important
to his team this year? Because when I think of
the Warriors rotation, I almost don't even consider Kaminga just
just like, I mean, he'll play, but it's like, I
don't know, he's just But Grimes is kind of similar
because I guess he's a little bigger than the other
wings they have, but they do have edgecomb, they do

(11:15):
have MAXI not a wing, and they do have well
I guess maybe McCain's thumb injury now is maybe makes
crimes look a little more important.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah. The other thing that's interesting too is I like,
do they not want like are they hoping to trade
him eventually while getting out of the tax. They're sub
two million dollars below the tax right now without him
on the books, so they have plenty of room beneath
the aprons. They're nine point eight below the first apron,
which makes me wonder, like, is that what they were
trying to accomplish with the four for thirty nine is
staying under that? Or they're twenty one point seven below

(11:48):
the second apron, and so this team's expensive is injured.
It's a wild card. I don't I thought the lack
of concrete offers we had heard almost made me think
that this was the situation. We didn't need to give
a ton of critical thought too, that they're just gonna
figure it out. And it turns out that behind the
scenes this might actually be At least it seems there
appears to be some type of back and forth between

(12:10):
the Warriors and Kaminga. But if your Grimes and his
representation like four for thirty nine, even as a joke
or's a starting point, is it's insulting?

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah? No, I agree, I think, and I'm try to
pull the comments up here. James notes, like three teams
have traded Quentin Grimes. Is there something we don't know
that we're kind of there now?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Right?

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Because it's like, based on how he played down the
stretch last year, he's not a sub ten million dollars
a year player unless it's there's just something going on.
I mean, like the market is kind of dictating this,
giving the Sixers the ability to play things this way.
But it is also to the point where it's like
that the offers are so low that it's like, what

(12:52):
is happening with him that we don't know about?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Right? The thing, when he was with the Knicks, we
know he wanted the ball more, and so maybe that
was the impetus if like that is the one you
look at and say, oh, was there was there a
cardinal sin happening there? Because with Detroit he was kind
of injured. So I don't know what you were supposed
to glean from that, and they trade him over the offseason.
Then with the MAVs, I thought he played fine with
them last year. They didn't want to pay him, which
is why they moved him, And then for the Sixers

(13:17):
to know that and to acquire him and then still
offer for like they could really be trying to play
up their leverage on the restricted free agency market. But
you knew he was going to restricted free agency. You
knew the reason he didn't want to be in Dallas
or Dallas was trading him was because he was about
to get paid. So I just don't I'm not really
sure what they're trying to do here, And I guess

(13:37):
it's not that I thought they viewed him as a keeper.
But if you are open to signing him for a
one year deal, like you've just pretty much decided that
you're not going to bring him back after this season, which,
as you laid out, you have McCain, you have MAXI,
you have Edgecomb. Is that is that the flat like
the Flashbowl moment is them drafting Edgecomb? Is kind of oh, like,
what is Quentin Grimes's role here moving forward? Maybe that's

(13:58):
how reviewing.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
This, I think that's the possible ability let's get to some
other sixer stuff here, because there's I mean, unfortunately, there's
a fair amount to talk about. We already mentioned Jared
McCain's thumb. Paul George says he's got plenty left in
the tank, but still recovering from offseason knee surgery. Between
him between Embiid having no timeline, Like, is this a
gap year situation in your opinion or can you really?

(14:20):
I mean, last year, I was kind of the mind that,
I mean, circumstance has changed over the course of the year.
But like my sort of basic summation of the sixer
situation was, like, you have Joel Embiid. He was an
MVP like months ago at the time, So you can't
do a gap year, and you just spent a quarter
billion on Paul George, Like, this is not a gap

(14:40):
year situation. Circumstance has sort of forced it to become one,
and they wound up with Edgecomb because of it and
some luck. You can't do that again, can you? Like
you can't this. You have to just you have to
try to win as many games as possible.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
I think because their pick that they owe to okaysee
has top four protected it takes a gap year off
the table. But my question would be, are they going
to be healthy enough to not be forced into an
involuntary gap year.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Then it's not a gap year in that case, it's
just like it's a lost Maybe it's a it's a
lost year or something. We need a different term for it.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Isn't that isn't shouldn't the expectation at this point. Okay,
Paul George isn't gonna be ready. Jewell Embiid was in
the six Ers his first practice, but there's no timeline
for his return, and I would think maybe I'm wrong.
You don't treat his return if it's imminent like a
guarded secret. You would want to shout that from the
rooftops to get kind of the good hype that comes

(15:32):
with it. So the McCain injury, what the hell is
going on with Quentin Grimes? And if you sign him
to a one year deal, you're planning on trading him?
And how much do you trust Edgecomb's a rookie, so
maybe he's really good right out of the gate, but
if you're playing him, there's gonna be some type of
learning curve there. And they have dudes. I would say
in this roster, but you don't trust most like you

(15:53):
like Kyle Lowry's on this team still, okay, Kelly Bridge
Junior is there, there's Andre Trump. It's just this is
a weird. It's I'm the whole thing comes back to
Ken Joell Ebiid be healthy for what for the Sixers
for you to feel good about? The Sixers is a
regular season team in terms of seeding. How many games
does Joel Embiid need to play.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
In bare minimum fifty? Like, okay, it has to be fifty.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
I just let's assume he hits that. We've still never
seen him healthy in the playoffs. But if he can
get like their whole thing I used coming into last year,
as I'm stumbling through my words, I was at least confident.
I thought they'd be able to navigate life without Joel
Embiid because of Paul George, because of Tyre's maxim. I
was very high on the Paul George signing. I like
the the cole Cody Martin signing, kayleb Martin signing. And

(16:39):
now it's just it seems like their entire plan is like, well,
maybe we'll get lucky and Joel Embiid will play in
fifty games and be seventy five percent by the playoffs,
because I don't see the theory of this team without
that happening, and even that, to me just feels like
a very lack let I don't know if you've listened
or read any of kind of like the preseason prediction
like no one is factoring in the sixers is a
real threat, which is kind of insane, But also you

(17:02):
stop and you really think about it.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yeah, I mean, isn't isn't the right read on them?
Like the regular season, they can't prioritize the regular season,
So the only way this works out well for them
is if they somehow avoid the play in and magically
their main guys are healthy enough for like a sustained
playoff run. The problem is, like EMBIID has had much

(17:28):
healthier starts to seasons and then not held up for
a full season in playoffs. So it's just like the
even the like, Okay, this is the hard way to
get it done, seems unrealistic just because in easier times
EMBID couldn't do that. So yeah, I don't think you
can newsplash. I don't think you can consider them a
real contender even if we all agree that, like, well,

(17:49):
if all their best players are healthy and on the floor,
they can beat anybody, Like if Embiid and Paul George
and Tyres Maaxy and just throwing all the other supporting
players you mentioned are like as close to one hundred
percent or whatever one hundred percent is for them at
this stage, Like that's a really good team, like and
be it. It's still a problem if he's but it's
just like you can't you can't count on that. It's
not you. It's just not realistic.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
So quick exercise. Which team wins more games? The Sixers
or the Celtics.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Uh, well, I think I have to say the Sixers
because I I think the Celtics might be like if
they're if the Celtics are over five hundred, I think
I'm surprised. But the Sixers, I could see them going
forty four to forty five wins and like that's that,
you know, maybe that's like an upper middle outcome for them.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
Sixers are the pacers.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Sixers, I think the Pacers are going to be like
mid to low thirties.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Sixers are the heat.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
I think I still picked the Sixers again, Sixers are
the raptors. See, I just did win totals, so this
is unfortunate. I'm really gonna stay. I know exactly how
many games I think. I think I said the Sixers
will win more, so I'll stick with that Sixers or
Bucks Sixers, although that one's really close.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
I think, Wow, you have a you have a lot
more trust in the Sixers than I do.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
But I think I don't think they can win fifty,
you know, like in the regular season. That seems impossible.
But all the teams you mentioned I have in like
the mid thirties to the like low forties.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Regulator says, a healthy droll and Beat is the best
player in the Eastern Conference. In my opinion, I think
there's a fair case to that's a fair case to make.
I just when you know the backstop of the health stuff,
I don't know why you would ever pick him over
Yannis at this point, just in that conversation, I couldn't
get there.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah, I think Giannis still has to be on top
of that list. What else we got here, I think
that's enough for the Sixers. Let's get to the Boston Celtics. Here.
Incredible like clips out there of Jason Tatum doing workouts
and stuff, and like I think he, you know, nobody
totally shot down the idea that like or nobody really

(20:02):
put out there the concept that he's gonna come back
this year. I think it was more accurate to say,
like he's not ruling it out. He's also just kind
of keeping it open ended in the whole one day
at a time recovery thing, like pretty pretty interesting. I
think for him to be not quite dismissing the possibility
of coming back this year, is that just him being

(20:25):
a really great competitor and things have gone pretty well
so far, so he's optimistic or is that just like
I don't know, we're trying to not lose a bunch
of season ticket sales, Like how do you read the
Tatum optimism at this point? And for that matter, part
B should Boston want him to play this year? Or
should they? Should they be the one saying like, nah,

(20:46):
this is a twenty six, twenty seventh thing.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
I The my read on it is that the Celtics
having told him he's sitting out the entire year, then
because why would you come out and say any unless
he's trying to subliminally put pressure on them, which again
I don't know why he would do. I think this
is more so your first part of the answer, which
is Jason Tatums comes from the Kevin Durant mold of

(21:10):
seems like he just really wants to hoop and always
wants to play. And I think, even innately as a competitor,
unless your team tells you you're definitely not playing next season,
that the hope is gonna be you can get back.
And I will say, though I don't know like any
of the science behind it, the videos. I try not
to get hyped up about videos. With the videos of
him just running like yeah, that was and the gate

(21:33):
looks a little off, but still like how many months
he had he had surgery with him basically twenty four
hours of the injuries, So how many months were moved? Five?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
It's five months, I think he said today, which is like,
I mean, he's he's not halfway done, not even close
to halfway back, right like, because it's if assuming like
just under a year is like I mean, like Adrian
Peterson is the one that always gets cited as like
that's an incredible recovery. I forget his was like eight
months or no months like NFL players do make it

(22:02):
in less than a year. I don't know why that is,
but this needs to be a year. I just you can't.
You can't do this.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Do you think that there's an Andrew Willett Celtics fan here?
I sure hope he doesn't play. He is moving insanely
well though, But do you think there could be value
in everyone's talking about? Yeah, why would you want to
bring him back? Like when the playoffs are just starting up?
As if the Boston Celtics are going to be firmly
in the playoff mix. And I think the moves they've
made over the offseason telegraph that, not that they're actually

(22:29):
gonna try and pivot away, but that there I would
be shocked if there's not some maintenance program for Jalen
Brown and Derek White, in which case you're not going
to be firmly in the playoff mix. You don't think
there's value in kind of do you remember what Paul
George did in Indy a while ago, came back for
like five games? Do you think there's value in getting
that just gameplay under your belt.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
I was gonna say that exact thing, like, I do
think it takes the pressure off the season opener of
next year, if he comes back and plays once or
twice or something. I think I do think there is
value in but not nearly enough value to be like, well,
it's like touch and go. We think he's okay, Like,
it can't be that. He's got to be like he's

(23:08):
one hundred and twelve percent back and you're just gonna
do it. Like, it can't be. It can't be like
a chancy thing.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Right, Yeah, I don't. I think even if you were
going into the playoffs, you shouldn't view it that way.
But I wonder if it would take some of the
pressure off of the start of next season with that
build up of oh, Jason tATu's playing his first game,
they have to be contenders again. It would still be
there to some extent, But I think I would root
for it because one would just be super cool. But
I also think it might make I don't know what
it actually does for him getting the feel of what

(23:36):
it's like to play in a game, but to get
that moment out of the way almost I actually think
is a pretty big deal.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
I agree, let's move to another East team here. We've
covered some Celtics, so Jannis, Yeah, he is honest, the
biggest troll in NBA history is the question we're answering.
I mean, he's up there. So Jamal Collier confirmed Sham's
report that you did like weigh his options, which is
that was the money quote early in the off season

(24:04):
of you know, I think I think he was even
like this off season more than ever, Jannis is prepared
to weigh his options. Jannis made some comments about like,
he's very committed to Milwaukee. He had conversations with with
Wes Edens, and you know, his family loves it there.
And then because he has COVID, he wasn't at media day,
he was on a zoom call, says he doesn't remember

(24:25):
that conversation, and kind of the thrust of this was
like he wants to win a championship. It can be
in Milwaukee or it can be somewhere else, and he's
gonna evaluate his like path towards that title every off season.
It's so it's very much like, Okay, so he's back,
but also is just very much looking around still, which

(24:46):
like I don't know, first of all, how do you
feel about that stance in general? And then maybe the
second part of the question is how do you feel
about him like broadcasting that all the time. Like I
just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
I still like he's feeding the machine on purpose a
little bit. Just but yeah, I don't have a problem
with him saying it's kind of I understand how people downplayed.
It's just the reality of basically every superstar situation when
you get deep, like once you get past that second
contract to where there's you're on your rookie scale, we
know how extensions work from there after that. I feel

(25:19):
like that's kind of what you're doing. It's just evaluating
year by year, especially because free agency doesn't freaking matter anymore.
I just I'm actually still laughing at the way ESPN
even framed the report from Jamal cars like Shams had
to be tagged in the tweet referencing his previous report.
This wasn't Jamal Collier confirming this was Cham's was right,

(25:40):
and I'm just one he caught so much crap for
it that Giannis was shopping around only to return to Milwaukee.
I just find it funny that there was clearly something
to the effect, like no, we got to like make
everyone know that that Chalms wasn't pulling things out of
his butt, which I think even if you were making
jokes about it like I was, you know that Shams isn't. Yeah,
there's you get into the politicking of news breaking. There's

(26:01):
a lot of stuff to talk about there, but you're
not actually making these things up that is not happening
at the level of ESPN.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
So, but with respect specifically to Jannis, I got on
Kobe about this like years ago when he signed that
ridiculous two year At the time, it was ridiculous two years,
forty eight and a half million with the Lakers, which
was too much money for them. Yeah, right, And I
was just like, he can't say the only thing he
cares about is winning and then sign a deal that
prevents his team from doing anything else. I don't know

(26:31):
if I'd make that same argument today, just because like,
if you're a player, you should get what you can.
But for Giannis, okay, all he cares about is winning
a championship. How does he decide looking at the bucks
current roster and future situation like no picks, just dead
money of Damian Lillard's contracts on the books forever, how

(26:53):
does he evaluate his situation and decide like this is
actually the place for me to win a championship or
to continue to apply pressure. It's like you can apply
all the pressure you want. The Bucks don't have anything
else to do, Like they cannot build you a championship roster.
So if you're serious about winning another championship is what
you want, you can't look at the Bucks and be
like this is one. If you're ranking teams most likely

(27:16):
to win the next NBA championship, like are the Bucks
in the top fifteen? Like I don't think so, So
like how do they do it?

Speaker 1 (27:26):
So you've just said they're not even gonna be a
top six team in the East.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
By saying that, then well you tell me how a
team with Giannis, Miles Turner and a bunch of minimum
guys and Kylakusma that can't get better? Like realistically, how
is this gonna happen?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Well, so two things is that One, I think that
there's a not insignificant chance that he does this to
keep other teams on the hook and then they're not
going to act, and by extension, that does help. I
just won't rule it out.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
I don't Okay, you think I don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
So that'd be a plus gamesmanship. I'm not saying that's
what's most likely in this situation. Specifically, I think that
they sold him on the idea of you get to
be point you honest for a season, let us show
you the infrastructure we have around you, and then we
can trade three first round picks next summer, and that's
when we will go big name hunting again. And then

(28:17):
if they don't make good on that, that's when he
almost gets moved without having to ask to get moved.
It's you know, they've mutually decided to part ways, like
they couldn't figure something out with that said, I do
agree with you that I don't think publicly outwardly facing,
he can't say the Bucks aren't contenders, though ken he
would be, you'd be giving him shit for that. We're

(28:38):
not gonna win this year. But I'm pretty I don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I I think some party would be like, well, at
least he understands the situation. Uh No, I I don't know.
It always I always kind of bump on the idea
of like, yeah, of course, he's just he's playing the
game like he's trying to make sure his team knows
like you don't don't take me for granted, which I
don't think certainly the Bucks are not, Like the Bucks

(29:01):
have bent over backwards to just like at every step, like,
what do we gotta do to give this guy the
supporting casting needs and to broadcast to him that we
want to win now because of you, which is what
you should do when you have a player like him,
and especially after he's won you a title already. I
just I have a hard time like and if and
if it's he likes living in Milwaukee and doesn't want

(29:23):
to change teams, like that's great. I think he should
do that, like just stay put if you're comfortable there.
But I don't think this you can't sort of have
it both ways, Like you can't. You can't just constantly
put the chance the championship pressure on a team that
can't like meet that pressure.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
So do you think this situation is gonna end up
being messy? Then at the end of all, is that
where you're.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
I don't, I don't.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I think the Bucks are happy to have him, and
I think he's happy to get to keep like re
establishing that he is the singular driving force of this franchise.
And I don't know, I don't think it's gonna get messy.
I just like you can't You can't say you just
want to win another title and then be like, I'm
staying with the Bucks.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Here's my thing, though, couldn't you I'm just trying to
play Devil's advocate here is couldn't you look at the
rest of the East and say, Tatum injury, Halliburton injury,
the Calves have been banged up and wilted the past
three playoff runs. Isn't there an element? And then the
Sixers are just implosive? Is there not an element of
anything as possible in the Eastern Conference, especially if you're Giannis,

(30:21):
one of the three best players in the league. Is
it to think that way? Here's the probably the other thing.
Where were you gonna go that would have guaranteed you
a significant better chance at winning a title? That was
also realistic because you could say the Warriors, you could
say the Knicks, But like, those are the teams and
there are other teams, like those are teams that didn't
have the trade packages to give Milwaukee that wouldn't kind

(30:43):
of screw them over. I guess the Warriors had a
real package, but it wouldn't okay, Sorry, Jannis on the
Spurs would they have better title equity in a conference
that has the Oklahoma City Thunder than the Bucks do
right now in the Eastern Conference.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
No, but well I don't know, probably not, but you
could at least be like, oh, he's the next five
years talk about anything could happen if you hitch on
with Wemby, Like I could at least see the vision there.
But I think you're right to point out like I'm
projecting what I would be thinking about my situation if

(31:20):
I were honest. The thing about Giannis and players like
him is that, like, no, the reason he is where
he is is because he believes he can do anything,
and he's sort of been proven right several Like, you know,
he's been an MVPs, won a title, so like he might,
he might actually think that he can do this with
the Bucks, and that way of thinking has gotten him
a long way. So maybe maybe that's the problem. Is

(31:41):
I'm thinking what me, a normal person would be thinking
in that situation, with my level of self confidence versus his,
it's a little bit different. You're ready to move on, Yeah,
let's move on to some Kevin durantok Here. Basically, we
need to know when he's going to sign an extension,
because he did say today at Media Day that he
sees himself signing an extension but does not know when

(32:03):
that is going to happen. If he does, this is
worth noting. He can sign for more if he waits
until the six month window has passed, after being by.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
A total of two. But it's between two or four
million dollars is.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
The difference, which which maybe I don't know, maybe that
matters him, but that would be that would run counter
to some of the whispers we've heard since he got
there that like it might not be a full match extend.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
What I was thinking is and that's why I find
the absence of one notable. I don't think it's damning,
but I also don't know what it tells us when
you have all of these reports or just harbingers of oh,
he's going to take less than Okay, waiting the six
months doesn't matter because he's not trying to prioritize every dollar.
And if he is trying to prioritize every dollar, I
think if you're Houston, you probably still have to do

(32:45):
it in a short term enough that you navigate it.
But that's not ideal when you're looking at your roster
structure moving forward. Am and Thompson is going to be
extension eligible after this year, Tari Easton the extension of
eligible right now, and Shanengon's on his deal. Jabbari's deal
will kick in next season. So I kind of assumed
he was going to end up at like two for
one hundred, and now I'm just sort of I'm I'm

(33:06):
just clocky. I don't think it's anything sinister, but I
do find it notable that he hasn't signed one yet.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
It is it's just hard to parse. I don't know
what the reason for that would be. Let's talk some
other rocket stuff here. This idea of floating that they
might play the biggest lineup of all time with Am
and Thompson, Kevin Durant, Alprin, shan Gun Jabari Smith, and
Steven Adams. As a as an avowed small ball lover, Dan,
first of all, this must make you sick to your stomach.

(33:33):
You must hate this just with every fiber of your being.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
This isn't affront to what basketball is supposed to be,
which is just a bunch of six foot tall.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
People should not play basketball. I've said it a thousand
times I think you're right about it.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I saw a lot of Rockets fans doing the whole Well,
they played like so and so here last year. This
isn't a far departure. I'm like, they played forty posessions
last year with Amen Thompson at the one and Jabari
Smith junior as it would be three. That isn't and
I still want to see it. I don't have a
problem with this. I just I have no idea what
it looks like on offense. I would argue that the
only way they survive is on the Like is that

(34:10):
even a transition line up? You have Aman Thompson, So
maybe the answer is just yes.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
The transition player that might r on his own. This
is so, this is part of a trend, right Like
with Dallas's big the Thunder can play too bigs. The
Clippers can have a big front court now because they
have John Collins and they have Brook Lopez with Vita
Zubats like I don't especially we have to mention Read

(34:36):
Shepherd Andrew when we talk about this.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
He should be playing center. That's how basketball was meant
to be played. Is someone who looks like a plumber
jumping center.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
JJ Reddick understands I want to get I want to
get to the question we have here on the video
on a second, but like more broadly, how is how
did this happen? I thought, I like, we've come a
long way from Roy Hibbert be becoming unplayable overnight and
going through the pace in space and the five out
and the Rockets and the Warriors, and like Daniel Tye

(35:05):
being a viable like six foot nine starting center on
some good Celtics teams, like and Bam being a Finals
starting center because he can guard all five positions and everybody?
How did we get here? Like what has happened strategically
that has allowed big ball to like just be a thing?

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Now? Like what happened?

Speaker 2 (35:21):
I don't understand that.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
I'm honestly let me take you on. Please let us
harken back to the The year is twenty thirteen. I
believe one of the most the sagest, the most saged,
one of the wisest people ever to coach the game
of basketball said, the East is big man Mike Woodson
saw coming and from there here we are. You fast
forward another twelve thirteen years. Look where we are.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
I really do think the Knicks could have been vindicated
by pairing Eddie Curry and who it was Eddie Curry?
And was it Tyson Chandler at the same time? Did
they get both of them together?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
And I remember no, stat and Chandler. That wasn't the
Eddie Curry? Who was Eddie? Who do they it is?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Isaiah Thomas was in charge of another Nick's luminary from
the past. I can't remember now, But yeah, I don't
understand how.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Well don't you think I have a real answer. Don't
you think it's because they're trying to capitalize on a
market inefficiency. If you're gonna try and come at us
with not a lot of size, that we're gonna try
and punish you with a ton of size to where
we're gonna be able to gum things up for you
offensively and in some of these instances, okay, our offense
won't be pretty, but we'll be able to feast on

(36:32):
the offensive glass. And I do think there might just
be an element of aman Thompson is just basically like
a new species.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So that that's kind of the most persuasive thing to me,
is so cause it used to be Okay, you're going small,
we'll get bigger and then small will just win because
maybe because teams just weren't sophisticated enough about how to
defend lineups that space the floor, and they're just better
at it now, like they know who they can leave.
They understand like we're gonna concede above the break threes.

(37:01):
Those are fine, We don't care. We just can't like
naturally there's a pendulum swing. But even that doesn't satisfy
me as much as like, well, now there's just Aman
Thompson's and there didn't used to be I'm and Thompson's
and so that's like that solves you can't you small
ball doesn't work against him, that they're like being able
to play Adams and shan Gun together and winning like
with offensive rebounds and slowing the game down. That I'm

(37:25):
still trying to wrap my head around, yeah, because it
just feels like this happens so quickly. And I wonder
if what would be really exciting, especially for you about
small ballover is if there's another swing back and it's like,
guess what, you can't play one big anymore, forget about two,
Like it's just everybody has to be six seven or
something like that. Maybe we swing back that way, I
hope that'd be fun.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
And your point gets more weight because it's not like
we have a bunch of Evan Mobley's running around out
there where you just look and say, Okay, there are
these guys that are size like bigs, but they can
play on offense with the ball in their hands like
guards or wings the time. I mean like there's like
Jabbari Smith Junior might be one of those types of players.
So yeah, the fact that we're here with you're looking

(38:06):
at a team that will legitimately be yeah, we'll play
Kevin Durant at the two or is Jabbari two? And
that's who cares it's and that gets into while we're
getting rid of positions or I just there's also a
chance that like do you think small ball just becomes
this misnomer because people realize they couldn't replicate the few
teams that were able to do. Who came closest to
mirroring what the Warriors did.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
It was the Rockets. Yeah, PJ. Tucker at the five
and then wings around James Harden and like, honestly they
should have been they should have probably made a finals
with that team, But nobody else is you're right, nobody
else is really I struggle to think of who really
has come. I guess, like, I mean, the Celtics Thunder
when they're injured, the Thunder when they're injured. Sure, Al

(38:48):
Horford if you consider him like a smaller five. I mean,
the Celtics won a title with with kind of two
guards to two wings and Horford, but like they had
Porzingis and that's I don't I don't know. Yeah, maybe
that's just like, well the Warriors kind of did it,
and that's the reason we think there was a small
ball revolution.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Which model do you think? Do you think that that
is the harder model to replicate too, to where that's
the bigger anomaly. Then let's just go find like two
to three massive human beings that don't necessarily fit the
positional ideals, but well they're gonna gum things up anyway.
We'll slow things down and just be absolutely huge.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah, it seems like it should be harder to get
away with playing Draymond Green at center on a title winner. Oh,
it seems like that should be harder.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
To do, right, Yeah, so it's harder to find that
player is.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, you can go find big guys and teach them
this defensive scheme that seems to work. I don't know,
and just how hard is it to go be like
we need to get every offensive rebound that that seems
doable with less skillful or rare players.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
I will say that, and I know Kyrie is gonna
come back at some point. But the MAVs seemed to
be the team that is they're like really pushing this
bill on how much it works, because you could say
the Rockets too. But the idea of Reed Shepherd Fred
van Fleet before he I got injured in Kevin Durant
like there are shooters on this team and they get
to the MAVs and it's like, nope.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Nope, all right, let's get to let's see oh we
uh oh, yes, the West is growing. I'm glad we
hit this one. Derek Lively says he's seven foot two
or seven foot three. If you're gonna come out and
say you grew, I'm gonna need an exact number. I
would just like to put that out there. We can't.
We can't. Let's not so. Victor woman Yama maybe seven
foot four. What do you make of this? Is this

(40:27):
actually a real thing or is this just like because
everybody got shorter for a minute there when the NBA
started measuring without shoes and using those official measurements. Is
this just shoes or back? Is that the Is that
the issue? Or are these guys actually getting taller?

Speaker 1 (40:40):
I honestly don't know, but I think I read somewhere
that like it's very rare, this actually happens even though
these guys are super young at this age. I will, however, say,
speaking of new species, you can tell me anything about
Victor women Yama and I will just believe it. Right, So, honestly,
in my mind, seven foot four, he might have shrunk
for all week they kind of they came. He came

(41:02):
into the league, and everyone was so scared that he
was seven and a half feet that they were lowering
is lowering his height. Now they're gradually gonna bring it
up each year as people get more comfortable with the
idea of this seven and out half foot human being
dominating the.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
League's easing us in. That's that's what this is. I
feel like it's just.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Just do it. After another year where he didn't play,
like where his season was cut short this time with
the DVT. But do you do you believe it like
I don't. And also, what is the value in lying
about it?

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Well, that's the question, right, what do you gain? Especially
for if I were Derek Lively, I'd be like, actually, guys,
I'm six five now and I hear you need guards,
so you're gonna I think he needed to go the
other way, because that's that's the ticket to minutes. I
would say. On a Dallas team that already has several
players that are too tall.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
I believe I think I thought when we were seven
ft five one, but you know what that sounds. That
sounds small. I think that people were uncomfortable with the
height and they thought it meant that he was going
to be injured a bunch and not not play. So
over time we will finally know Wemby's true height, and
when he's eight foot three inches after being the weak
for like a decade, or he's still growing. He's thirty
years old, but he's still growing.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
You want to get to the Utah Jazz here.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Well, I want to know what is I want to
know how much validity on a scale of one to
ten are you placing it? Because I don't know the
value add of lying. But this also just seems.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
So I'll say seven point two to seven point three
is how much validity I give it just to stick
with Derek Cleveley's height.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Nice good job there. Uh this is I forgot to
include this on the outline, but h Cooper Flagg mentioned
grant that he obviously obviously was the word he used,
wants to win Rookie of the Year. Can anyone just
what is the pick if it's not Cooper flag.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Man?

Speaker 1 (42:49):
So real?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
So this is like, is it Cooper flag or the
field or do I have to give you like an
actual cause? Like I mean, Harper is the obvious pick,
just especially now that as we'll get to eventually here
deeron Fox has a hamstring issue to go with recovering
from offseason finger surgery. I guess I can't remember if
it's the off season at the end of last season

(43:10):
when he had it, But I don't think Harper's gonna
have a big enough role, So I don't know, what
do you guys? It's not Edgecomb same issue, like kind
of a positional glut there, although maybe the I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
I'm not sure doesn't it couldn't it be like Ace
Bailey or I could see, uh say Trey Jones. That'd
be weird as trade Jones win Rookie of the Year
Trey Johnson. Those those feel like the two to me
Johnson might.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Get might get might score enough, Like since who's gonna
do it on that team, that could be a possibility.
I could see that. Man, I don't know. Bailey feels
like he's gonna average sixteen points but might shoot under
forty percent from the field. Like, I just don't think
you're winning Rookie of the Year that way, Like what
flag would just have to not would have to get hurt.

(43:55):
I feel like for a season like that to win
Rookie of the Year. And let's let's not speak anymore
about that possibility.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
No, we will move on. Wait, I hope you didn't
jinx it. Everyone bookmarked this.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, no, I said, I said, I won't talk about it.
So Walker Kessler not a restricted free agency stalemate thing.
We've talked about this a little bit, but do you
think so We've talked about why, like the Jazz, he's
extension edible eligible. He has not gotten a rookie scale
extension yet, despite the fact that he's one of like
two actual NBA starters on this team. Laurie Markten is

(44:25):
the other one. He was famously paid a couple off
seasons ago, or it seems like one hundred years ago.
It was it last year, whatever, what is time? Dan?
I couldn't remember when Daring Fox had surgery. You think
I'm gonna remember marketing it. So he admitted today that
he was frustrated with the lack of extension. I'll give
you the full quote here from Sarah Todd of The

(44:45):
Destroy News. Kesler said, I know today's media day, so
I was assuming I'd get a question like this about
the extension. So I just want to say I don't
want to talk about it after today, just because I
think during the season, tomorrow's training camp, it's the start
of the season. I don't want it to be a
distraction from me or my teammate. That being said, I'm
definitely a little frustrated with how you know, I don't,
But regardless, I love Utah, I love the fan base,

(45:07):
I love my teammates, I love the coaches, and as
long as I have Utah Jazz Jersey and I'll play
winning basketball. Continues to say all the right things.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Well, one, do we think he's going to recall this
conversation about loving Utah. Maybe his family's happy there. Ryan
Smith should maybe get this recorded just in case.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Works it works for you, honest. So the reason he
doesn't have an extension is because his cap hold can
be kept artificially low. It's the Tyre's Maxi situation that
the Sixers kind of correctly I think handled seven years ago.
Just since I'm getting all the time frames wrong. When
Tyr's Maxie was was.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Like or four cbs ago, I think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, I think like nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine.
It's just it makes sense for the Jazz. The Jazz
don't gain anything and extending him other than making him
not frustrated, so they can wait, utilize the flexibility brought
about by his lower cap hold, and then pay him.
I don't think he's wrong to want to get this
done because he's eligible, but I think he must also understand,
like why this is happening. I mean, what's your read

(46:09):
on it?

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Yeah, he's got to understand, But I also wonder how
much of it does he believe because his name has
been in rumors and whether it's the Jazz that have
put them there or not. If you sign an extension. Yes,
you could still be traded, but it is so much
harder to trade him, and so he probably wants the
stability of knowing he might be in one place for
a full season. And I totally get it, but this

(46:30):
is just this stuff is collectively bargained like, this is
the reality of playing in the NBA, and we get
why the Jazz are doing it. And look, there's also
probably an element of them that wants to say, well,
how much is this player worth? If he's going in
there and asking for double his cap pull twenty eight
thirty million dollars a year, whatever's going to be his
rim protection is transformational, but he's still I know he
was jacking three's last year, but I think they gave

(46:52):
him the license to do that so that they could
continue losing. We don't know what he looks like necessarily
on a capslock winning basketball team. It might be just
something to where if he was willing to sign something
like if he went in there and said he'd signed
for twenty million dollars a year and they weren't gonna
sign him to that, they were out of their minds.
And so it's probably just the number he wants. You
can't bridge a gap to where it makes sense for

(47:12):
the team to Yeah, we'll raise your cap hold, but
we are still rolling the dice. It's interesting that he
said he was frustrated and boy if maybe maybe it's
Utah so this won't be an issue, But like he's
got to go to Los Angeles four times a year,
you don't think they're gonna ask him, but like, this
is not the last time you're gonna be asked about
this extension, buddy. Between now and February, you're gonna be

(47:33):
asking about your future in Utah A bunch yep.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
I mean it's look considering how little else there might
be to talk about with this team this year, and
as things continue to spiral like this is all, not
only will he asked about, He's gonna asked about it,
like increasingly often, because like if you're frustrated now, like
what happens after the next like zho to fifteen run
like that, it's just gonna be the main thing to
talk about this.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
I was just going through the comments out regular so
it'd be funny if a NET one Rookie of the
Year now, yeah, it's it's also like, well, you took
five first round pick So maybe it's expected, like that's
that's what it should be.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Yeah, the fact that we don't think there's anyone on
that team with it, well pick one right now, which
has Yeah, that's right, the right answer.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
He's he's did. You're you're already grinding film for when
we do the nets look at in like a week.
I you know it, well very quickly. Do you think
Walker Kessler is still on the jazz past fit like
into the summer next time?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Uh? Yeah, I do, because I do.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
They're so hard to trade, they make so little money,
and if they're about it, it's like, what do you
give up?

Speaker 2 (48:39):
So yeah, I agree, and I think he really is.
I think they do view him as a core piece.
He's certainly the closest thing they found among all their
young guys to a four piece.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Unless you're just penciling Ace Bailey into that, which I mean, fine,
he is the closest.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Thing they have to a cornerstone, which is kind of
a it's it's kind of a problem. But but that's.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Where that could be part of the hesitance of well,
how much do we want to commit to anybody long
term when we don't know And now that Austin Ange
is there. Maybe he wouldn't have done the renegotiating Excheglowery,
because you could say, the pushback to what I just
said be like, well they paid Lowry, and my pushback
to that would be and look how that turned out?
Right now?

Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah, yeah, fair. Let's talk some Memphis Grizzlies here. The
big story here, Jack Landale, very important player all of
a sudden, because well not all of a sudden, because
we knew some of this ahead of time. All the
big guys are hurt, Zach Edy off season ankle surgery,
Jared Jackson junior toe, Brandon Clark knee issue. None of

(49:37):
those three will be ready to start the season, So
Zach Cleman says getting Jack Landell was a priority for US.
I guess. I mean, anytime you can can give major
minutes to a guy who's most famous for having several
non guaranteed years on his last contract, you gotta do
it right. You gotta lean on that guy.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
I just want to know how bad behind the scenes
is it to deal with Jay Huff that a team
that is so down bad in its healthy center rotation
that they just traded him for a second round pick.
We're talking about like Miles Turner three point zero right here,
and they just gave him away. I hope people sense
the tongue in cheek tone on that last part. This
is kind of insane, right, like in the fact that

(50:17):
he had to go on me. He's like, yeah, like
jack Landill was a priority, and it's like I immediately
questioned everything else about this franchise by a factor of
thirteen percent more where it's like, what Cedra Cowhard really
like a good idea to go in and trade for
that is such a it's such a bad predicament for
them to be in.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
I mean, they're just I don't know what else he
can say. Well, I just don't say jack Landill is
a priority. Say say jacqu Landell is he's gonna be
an important player for us at least the outset this season.
We're glad we.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Have him, something like we're glad that Santi al Dama
can play thirty plus minutes.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
There you go, Well, yeah, you could say we're gonna
look at some some some real back to small ball.
I mean, like Aldama at center is terrifying to offensively,
but like, I don't know, I think I might look
a little harder at something like that. Get Gigi Jackson
out there more often, just to have some size and
athleticism like Landelle. That's like a break glass in case

(51:13):
of emergency situation, not someone you prioritize getting because he's
gonna play a huge role when.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
We do our win totals, which they're coming up, and
join our discord and I'll probably post it on the
YouTube community. But join our discord if you want to
be part of our over under competition. When I miss
on the Grizzlies like I have been for six or
seven years run I think it's six six years running,
it will it won't be Typically, I feel very strongly
about my take this time, I'm gonna miss while equivocating

(51:38):
because I have no idea what to make of this
team right now.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
That's good. You gotta try something different with the results
you've been getting, so at least just this the mental
approach will be important. Will Orlando be a dribble handoff
oasis with Desmond Bain? So Bain said he's excited to
do more of that kind of stuff, and they've already
been working on it in Orlando Memphis. To not to
do so much of that last year. Nor did Memphis

(52:02):
at screens had the fewest dribble handoffs in terms of frequency. Uh,
they had been in the top ten a couple of
years ago for two years running. Actually, so uh, I
don't know like that Memphis offense, man, Like, is there
it ever been anything that was more interesting that everyone
immediately decided sucked and they hated and they're never going.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
To do it? Was revolutionary at one point, and then.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Then I was most interested in all for Ben Taylor
video on it for thinking basketball like yeah, so well,
first of all, we've been not critical, but we have
and others have pointed out like Desmond Bane great edition,
Tyas Jones great addition, is there enough spacing and offense
like still in Orlando? So thoughts on the dribble handoff stuff,

(52:47):
like is that is that a workaround for for some
of the restrictions this roster still has offensively?

Speaker 1 (52:53):
I think it could be and I know a lot
of people might cite it for Paolo Ben Carroll, even
a Wendell Carter junior, But isn't like you could use
Franz Wagner in that action with Desmond Bain as well.
Might be something worth trying there but I think you
look at just go back to the Kings teams that
Mike Brown coached. They had some really good offensive peaks,
and I think you looked at that roster and you

(53:14):
never felt awesome about the spacing for the most part,
because what were the shooters really on those teams? There
was Kegan Murray who was He's never really been a
count He's had better shooting seasons and again last year
he struggled Daron Fox's jumper. He's had one good coming
above average. Yeah, right, so I would say, and I
think look, especially if you can count on a bump

(53:34):
from like a Palo Bankaro from beyond the arc and
having Desmond Baine in there, I think it's I think
it's a potential work around. Now I'm hoping this doesn't
mean they're gonna slow things down to make sure they
get into some handoff actions because I really want this
team to play in transition for once. But I'm a hashtag,
you know, I'm hashtag try stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Got to how do you think Polo Bankaro felt about
the acquisition of Desmond Baine.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
He couldn't believe it. Grant, he was in awe. He
didn't think they could get him.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
I want to read some of the quote because it's
kind of it's it's I don't know. I had a
feeling we were gonna make a trade, but I felt
this is from Josh Robbins of the Athletic. Just a
portion credit where it's due. But I felt like there
were some guys that were kind of up on the
list who we maybe trade for, at least in my head,
and Desmond Bain was not one of them. So when
I heard that one, I was like Desmond Baine, I
was like your most kids s word, He's a hell

(54:20):
of a player. I was excited. Obviously, I feel like
shit has kind of been like like Buddy Heal crashed
Jimmy Butler's media availability today, continuing their their ongoing bit
of like pretending to hate each other, and Buddy Heel
just dropped a ship like in the in the middle
of the media room. Not literally, that would have been
a story.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Uh, everybody dropped another word during his media but that one.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Who did? I didn't hear that one, Anthony Edwards did he?
Oh no, yeah, he's making some choices.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Like that's that was a whole separate matter. But yeah,
it does. It does feel like it has shit just
entered the lexicon of like you could say and we won't.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I feel like it's following crap, because crap you sed
in my house growing up. Crap was right up there
with all the other four letters. You couldn't think.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
You're really good with time. So how many years ago
was was.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
That seventy five? I would say? Or to heart it's
somewhere in the middle. Yeah, I mean, of course paulll
is excited about getting Desmond Bank. You get a career
forty percent shooter in there, like.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Especially if you thought you were gonna get like Colin Sexton, right,
but something else.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
You were amped about KCP at this time last year.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
This is such a sad comment from Andrew Dribble. Handoff
are the best I am hope for being the top
twenty offense.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
And it's just look, don't some people say dream big?
I think the Magic are dreaming realistic top twenty.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Ambition is the enemy of success, it would be.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
So there, let's go to the Knicks, Dan, because you
just won't shut up about them. Not really, I feel
like you almost you want to talk about the Knicks.
Who should the Knicks start? I like this isn't that
hard of a question for me? I like, I really,
I just I'm not starting. Mitchell R. Robinson appears to

(56:01):
be the early favorite. However, Mike Brown talking about getting
up a bunch of threes, which his offensive rebounds have
historically generated. So that's fun. Where are you on this?
I don't know if i've ever I'm sure I have,
but like, do you have a firm answer should he
be the starter or should it just be Josh Hart
and you take care of Mitchell Robinson's health by managing
his minutes.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
My answer is actually neither. I think that it should
be Deuce McBride. And my reasoning is, before even Mike
Brown had said what he said about wanting to get
up forty three point attempts per game, is the whole
premise of trading for Karl Anthony Towns was five out basketball.
And even if you have Josh Hart on the floor,
the rim pressure can be great. The transition stuff is fun.

(56:41):
Good passer rebounder works defensively. Defenses do not care even
when he's making threes, and last season he wasn't making
a ton of threes. I just I understand defense matters,
but you can't build a team around Karl Anthony Towns
as your highest paid player, and really try to plan
unless you have a generational defender around him, which you don't.

(57:02):
You don't have Rudy Gobert, you don't have Giannis or
like whoever you want to say. They're like, og, okay, great,
he's not generational. Lean into offense. Duce McBride comes in.
That's a true five out and you are ensuring because Grant.
One of the biggest issues we had with Coronthy Towns
last year or not we but that the Knicks had
was when teams would put smaller players on him, he

(57:24):
basically disappeared. You think, if he's playing with Mitchell Robinson,
they're not gonna put smaller players on there. They're gonna
put a center on Mitchell Robinson and another smaller player
on Towns. And you've you've now invited that because that's
how the matchup should work because Coronthiy Towns is your
four and so I understand that. Okay, what does the
bench look like if Josh Hart and Mitchell Robinson are

(57:44):
coming off it? That's where you worry about staggering or
if you want to care about defense, try and build
bench lineups that can defend. But I think that with
McBride on the court five out, he also helps insulate
the two things that he does aside from the five out.
He would then be someone who could defend at the
point of attack, which guess who doesn't need to do that,
Grant mckial bridges. Guess who shouldn't be doing that. Grant

(58:05):
mckel bridges like it. Just to me, it makes too
much sense, and I think that the only argument against
it would be, well, you don't want to go to
that lineup too quickly, because then how do you build
out the rest of your rotation If we operate under
the assumption that that needs to be a concern, I
probably might start Josh Hart just because Mitchell Robinson's durability
over the past three seasons has been basically horrible, and

(58:29):
so I understand that you can manage minutes while starting
a player, but if you want him healthy for the play,
it just seems easier to tamp down a player's minutes
if you know he's not going to be in the
game for the first five to eight of them. And again,
then karlinth Towns still has the chance because I don't
think teams will be as gimmicky of throwing a smaller
player on Towns during the regular season. If he's playing

(58:49):
next to Heart during the playoffs, yeah, it's different if
you're playing him next to Mitchell Robinson, Yes, sure, And
look there were flashes of that duo working in the playoffs.
I just I'm leaning all the way into into the
offense and I don't It's not that I don't want
to see the dual big. Look, I like, do you
feel confident and so you have dual biggs, who do

(59:10):
you want to be your five coming off the bench.
Then yeah, you could Stacker call at the Towns and Robinson.
But if you're gonna start both bigs, having a really
good third big is inherently more important. Gershon Yabuseli's not
gonna give you much defensively there. He'll give you some
five out lineups. And then so we're just betting on
Ariel huk Porty being ready. I mean sure, So I'm
actually I'm not saying to start Robinson would be actually insane.

(59:35):
It I think it's more insane that it doesn't seem
like starting Duce McBride is even an option within the
Knicks that's my read on it. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, I'm I think it's a great idea to just
make it McBride because I think, I mean heart, the
shooting thing, it's it's this is he that was an
issue before it was announced. This wasn't a media day thing,
but before it was announced that he's gonna play the
season with a splint on a finger on his shooting hand.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Like, yeah, I mean that wasn't media day thing. He
just kind of revealed it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Okay, Yeah, that's right. They had their media day a
couple of days ago, right, they were one of those teams. Yeah,
I just all, I don't I I don't have as
strong of an opinion about the heart versus McBride thing,
but like it just to me, it just can't be Robinson.
I just don't, for for all the reasons you mentioned,
and like just the idea that you if you want

(01:00:26):
to have the option to play double big, I guess situationally,
probably in the playoffs for certain stretches, and I think
keeping Robinson supermanaged all year is just easier off the bench,
And I don't think there's huge gains to be had
because when Kat is a four, it's just like what okay? Like,
what what are you adding? As? I think the best
version of the Knicks has Kat at the five, Like

(01:00:47):
it's just that's that's just how it has to be.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Sounds like the Knicks are shorter rotation player who can
space and defend. Yeah, his name is Justin Champagnie. It
makes you go out and get.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Him, isn't everybody. Let's move on to the Oklahoma City Thunder.
Here's a couple quick one quick item. I guess here
are the Thunder the most transparent team in the NBA.
There's just Sam Presty just out here talking about Jadob's
off season wrist surgery, which one concerning, but two kind
of funny that He's just like, once we get through camp,

(01:01:17):
we'll see where we are. As with anything, it'll be
a collaborative decision as when he returns ultimately, yes, feel
comfortable with him. That is Dan. Do you read that
as like he can come back in December, We'll be fine,
Like don't just don't care, right, Like that's where the
Thunder are and they don't need to mess around or
lie about stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
I honestly just felt like it would be disrespectful not
to include a media day note from the reigning champions,
they don't This is the No Notes team and Jalen
Williams talked about how the injury was a blessing in
disguise that have forced him to be more creative with
his training. I'm assuming that he's just gonna come back
with the dominant left hand now or something.

Speaker 2 (01:01:50):
It was already good, like it's right, And the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Fact that he was playing with the torn lik in
his wrist. I know he struggled, but like on the
court defending, like he was doing some of the things
like off the bounce that he was I just yeah,
get look, he just made a deep playoff run. Give
him a little bit of a break. I'm I'm not
concerned at all. I mean, I won't necessarily say the
injuries a blessing in disguise. If he comes back with
just sort of I don't know what else could he

(01:02:14):
be more creative with. Sure, we could talk about it,
but this team is just the eleven of ten No
Notes team and Sam Presty's just out here for it's
not even we know about the injury now, So it's
not even like you don't need to be transparent, like
we'll figure it out, guys, why are you asking about this?

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, let's get to Lebron. We made it a long
time before we got to Lebron. That's why you should
listen to what we say, because we're not just gonna
start an end with Lebron. We're gonna bury him in
at the past the one hour mark.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Well, honestly, what's more important figuring out if Jock Landel
can win Most Improved Player or talking about Lebron James's future?

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
I asked him, right, I mean, let's let's keep the
first thing. The first thing so predictably because he is
going into the season with an expiring contract for the
first time ever basically or not basically. Actually, there's some
speculation as to whether he's thinking about retirement after this year.
There was did you see the clip of Lebron when

(01:03:08):
it was on a what is the word? I can't
think behind the desk basically with with some of some reporters,
and uh, just as they're like going to break said,
they said we'll see you next year, and he like,
just before the video cuts, he goes maybe and then
they all laugh. So that was fun, and then you know,
says he's not thinking about it. That's Yeah, he knows

(01:03:30):
he's in those meetings. Uh so's he made comments about
how his contract situation's not gonna, you know, factor into
how he plays this year. Mentioned the MCL thing. What's
your take on, like, is this a story or is
this just like it's Lebron and it's the only thing
to talk about with him. Do you think he's considering retirement?

(01:03:51):
Like what what what's your read on his general media
day situation?

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Well, all that to the first part, I do think
it's a story just because, as you mentioned at the top,
he's basically unexpiring contract for the or at least doesn't
have control over the next year of his contract for
the first time and how long. Yeah, But I'll answer
the other part of the question with another question. Do
you think that when he does retire, or if he
was going to retire, is he going to be someone
who doesn't really announce it or is he going to

(01:04:16):
make it just based off maybe some of the ad
campaigns we've seen from Nike that this is there's gonna
be a lot of pomp and circumstance.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I have to believe there's gonna be an announcement and
then he'll just be you know, they'll be what's like
ceremonies at every road arena right right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
And by the way, I know that we probably make
fun of Lebron a lot, and a lot of other
people do as well. He deserves it, Like this is
just the longevity he has displayed has been absolutely absurd.
And we've reached the point I started getting there, not
really his past season, the season before. At some point,
I'm really trying to soak in just Lebron the basketball player,

(01:04:54):
because you don't. I feel like sometimes we're not allowed
to enjoy things like we have to we have to
be cynics on everything, and I understand that to some extent,
Like he's gonna not play anymore and at some point
and it's gonna suck. Like this is no worse than
the second greatest basketball player of all time, and he
is to me just the greatest basketball player of all

(01:05:15):
time because of them, like twenty three. Yeah, like this
is year twenty three and he just made second team
All NBA.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Well, and like the last two that really got me
we were Dirk and Duncan and and they they had
like sunset phases right in their careers that were very
different from what they were at their apex. Like, so
to your point about soaking it in, like Lebron's not
twenty not twenty eleven heat Lebron like that guy that

(01:05:43):
of course not, but like his sunset phase is like
insanely close to like the very the best version of him.
So like all the more reason to enjoy this because like,
what he's doing is not how it normally goes for
guys that are like, maybe he'll retire, like compare him
to like Vince Carter's he was the only other guy

(01:06:04):
to play twenty two seasons like end stage, Vince Carter
was not anything close r like apex Vince Carter, Lebron
is like I don't know, if you're watching in standard definition,
you might not know the difference like from a from
night to night. So like that all the more reasons that, yeah,
if he he gets all the flowers, uh for sure.
I just think I so sorry. I think the retirement

(01:06:24):
thing is interesting because what it what it reflects is
this is the first time that he's not in full
control of his fate because it used to be, well,
what's gonna happen with Lebron and like what's what about
this contract? Situation, and the answer was always like, what
will happen is whatever Lebron wants to happen because he

(01:06:44):
has that clout like he deserves it, and so, oh
is he gonna be traded? Yeah, if he wants to.
Uh is he gonna sign a two year extension of
three year or four? Well, it depends on what he
says he wants to sign. Like that's just that's the
difference now, is like, because he didn't get another one
plus one, it's just evident that, oh, this is a

(01:07:05):
very new chapter where he's not the most important figure
on his team. He doesn't just get to get whatever
he wants, and so like that is why retirement comes
into play, because maybe he's like, I don't like how
this feels. I liked it before when I was in
charge of the whole deal.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
Right, That's a really great point. And the other thing
with this too is the level of just scrutiny everything
is receiving. Already, there was I saw on social media
because Luka Doncic did his availability first. It was well,
it's proof that like the Lakers timeline has changed, like
Luka Docca's and like that's what we're in for the
entire year, and do you think that. I just don't.

(01:07:43):
This situation is so weird, right because you saw Rob
Polinka when him and JJ Reddick, I'm sure did their
media availability that they said, we're hopeful Lebron retires here.
I just I don't even know if he left the Lakers.
I don't think they're going to trade him unless he
asked for it. But if they'd make it to the
end of the season he's a free agent, does he
try to leave? I haven't even given a thought to
would Lebron ever be the guy that just takes whatever

(01:08:05):
money to go back to or go to Team X.
I haven't even reconciled forget retirement. I've even reconciled, like
I just assumed he was going to continue playing. What
is going to happen in Los Angeles if he does
continue playing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Yeah, that's the thing. I mean. Frame that way. It
almost feels more likely that he's on a different team
next year, just because if he wasn't If he was
going to be on the Lakers next year, why wouldn't
there be a one plus one or why wouldn't there
just be a straight two year.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
I'm not offering him a new deal is Yeah, I honestly,
it probably did get enough attention. We're so far remove
that was like eight years ago we found out about it. Yeah,
before we move on, I have a question for who
said who said this quote? Oh agree, you could get it.
It's literally my dad, Bronni James or the twenty eighteen raptors.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Who would the two thousand and eighteen Uh yeah, I
think it's both. I think they both have basically said
something like that. Let's get to the other because man,
this was so this is the first opportunity for Kawhi
to say anything and during Is there a name for
what's happening? Is it aspiration gate? That doesn't really roll
off the tongue.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
We got to get rid of gate, you know, like gate.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
It is a little outdated. I don't we need we
need to use listener submissions for this. What do we
call this?

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
It's gotta be something with trees or carbon or like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Well, you can work Pablo into it somehow, since he's
like the most important figure in all this. Uh So,
Kawhi said he doesn't pay attention to this kind of
stuff when asked about it, that he and the Clippers
didn't do anything wrong. I think he said basically like
we didn't commit any we committed no wrongdoings or something
like that. They called it a conspiracy clickbait used like

(01:09:44):
basically said journalism and air quotes more or less. So
just like very dismissive, evasive that I had a couple
of quotes here that I really wanted to just sorry
before I get to those the latest because this keeps
trickling out on pabulatory finds. Out reported that Steve Bomber
donated another one point eight seventy five million to a
charity of aspiration co founder under a different charitable like

(01:10:08):
charity name same co founder who conned him. This was
a year and a half after the Clippers ended their
original deal the Feds were closing in, so there's just
like more of this stuff keeps coming out. I wanted
to read this specific one to get your take on it.
So Laurence Frank, Clippers executive, was asked by Ramona Shelburne

(01:10:29):
whether Dennis Robertson Kawhi Leonard's uncle has ever asked the
team for any extra benefits that would not be permissible
under the NBA's rules. Frank said, Dennis knows the rules
Kawhi knows the rules, Mitch frankl knows the rules, and
we know the rules. Ramona falls up and says, is
that a yes or a no? And Lawrence Frank goes yes,
we all know the rules, so Dan does That was

(01:10:53):
a real opportunity to say, uh, nobody asked for anything
and we didn't give anything, or they asked for something
and we said no because we know the rules. Frank
didn't say any of that. Is that the most evasive answer,
the most like I need to protect my ass legally
like evasive answer you've ever heard?

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
So I'm hearing that quote for the first time. I
didn't see it. My answer would be yes, but you
watched it, right, I watched it because you think.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
So this is a like when you read it, it's
like that can't be what he said because or it's
like because that seems so evasive and like smug. The
video it's as smug and evasive as it looks on paper,
like it's it. It was pretty incredible. And now, in fairness,

(01:11:43):
I don't know what the what the five minutes before
that question looked like or the five minutes after I
read the quote. I sought out the actual video clip
of Frank answering the questions. To me, it looks as
bad as it reads, and it's just it was a
really rough look. And then Kawhi also had a non answer.
I just because we already referenced it as specifically by

(01:12:07):
ESPN if he ever performed any services for what Torre
reported was a four year, twenty eight million dollar contract,
the no show contract we've been talking about. Leonard said,
I don't think it's accurate, but it's old. This is
all new to you guys. The company went bankrupt a
while ago. Again, just like a non answer, and then
talks about the conspiracy. So it's just like the Clippers

(01:12:30):
had opportunities to state their case here if they wanted to.
Maybe they don't just because there's gonna be an investigation.
But man, nobody's doing anything in terms of like a
full throated denial.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
Like that's just from Mark Cuban. I just I can't. Man.
Katie Heindel wrote a piece or Basketball Feelings about this
obviously encapsulated my feelings perfectly, and she's so good at
this aspect of covering the league. Mark Cuban just like
really pandering to everybody and calling pavloatories reporting just entertainment.

(01:13:03):
Is It's just so. I'm not even saying that there
can't be pushed back against what Pabulatory is reporting, but
this assumption that just because Steve Bomber is a billionaire,
because Mark Cuban is a billionaire, they're smarter than everyone else,
they can't possibly make a mistake like this. And even
if we don't know, but even if there's nothing like

(01:13:23):
sinister here, you can't say that this reporting doesn't like
isn't worth further exploration all these just even look at
the dollar amounts and how they line up to what
certain payments were and the timing behind them. You don't, again,
if there is an explanation one the clippers, if you
have to give inadequate one publicly, I think that's fair
to say. And two it was at least further exploration

(01:13:46):
in the first place. And so just miss me with
this bullshit that this isn't worth talking about if you
want to get into a are we just assuming they're all
guilty because the circumstance circumstantial evidence is piling up. Well,
there's a discussion that we had there, but the circumstance
evidence here seems pretty freaking damn damning.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
So I actually this latest thing that came out, like
the first two Problatory episodes, I just watched in full
because I was like, this is riveting, right, Like the
first one had me, and then the second one where
you get the Dennis Wong and you get the other stuff,
is just like, oh wow, super compelling. I didn't even
pay that closest attention to this latest one because I've

(01:14:23):
already reached the point where it's like this is more
than enough now. It just the only thing that interests
me now is the Clippers coming out and giving a
rational explanation for what why this isn't what it looks
like it is right like you saw it. Like there's
a legal concept of like burden shifting, where it's just
like you're making assertions. At some point the weight is

(01:14:45):
so great that the it's now the other side's burdened
to like refute what's being said. It's like, so the
evidence to your point, the circumstantial evidence is like overwhelming.
It's Mark Cuban seems to be the only one that
disagrees with that, because he's like poking holes and asking
like questions of well, why did why aren't we focused
on the payments that that the other payments that weren't

(01:15:06):
made or things like that, And it's just like, I
don't I don't care. Now now it's on the Clippers
to me, like you have to give some explanation. It's
we passed the point of needing any more, right, and
now it's just the other side's got to say something
compelling because it's just otherwise like what are we doing?

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
And isn't it that everything you said especially true in
this case because we're not in a court of law
to where like the burden would be on Pablo Torre
or the the league to prove that something happened to
where based off the CBA, everyone's interpreted that clause differently.
It seems that there would be if if Adam Silver
wanted to, if you wanted to lay down the hammer,

(01:15:47):
based off what that says, it seems like there's more
than enough for him to do so. And the Clippers
have just not come out and said anything that's remotely convincing.
And it's just like you said with Lauren Frank that
was evasive. It was a I don't know how Chriitte
verges on a non answer, but it's like pretty it
was word salad.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
He was given the opportunity to say no, we didn't Well,
he didn't say no, we didn't break the rules. He said,
we know the rules that that that's not an answer.

Speaker 1 (01:16:17):
Like that's want to make it worse.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
If you're found guilty, if you're in court and a
witness gives that answer to that question, you immediately object
and say non responsive because he didn't answer the question
like that's so that's not where we are, but that's
what what happened. We're this an actual quarter of law,
so like I don't know it's it's uh, I don't
know where this goes, do you? So we've talked about

(01:16:39):
the punishments in the past, like what might be on
the table if you had to guess right now? Like
is this what do you? What do you think we're
looking If the League does interpret its powers as it
does seem to be laid out in the CBA, where
circumstantial evidence is enough and it is in combing on
sort of the accused here to provide a rational explanation

(01:16:59):
for what actually what this is? Like what is your
do you have a guess? Now? We haven't talked about
this in a while. On this specific point of it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
It's so tough because I think that you could easily
say that too much of the evidence is circumstantial, and
just knowing how Adam Silver's NBA has enforced tampering specifically,
I know a lot of people have said, yeah, we're
just curious how many first round picks it's gonna be.
I still remain unconvinced that multiple first round picks. I
don't like I've seen there's been the DISCUSSI think it

(01:17:30):
was on Zach Lowspot. They had the discussion like, can
you like take away picks that aren't even eligible.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
To be traded here?

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
And I'm like, have we really reached that? I guess
I just we haven't seen a sign from the Donald
Sterling stuff with Adam Silver, But that evidence was just
so he was on tape, was so overwhelmingly obvious that
to basically get him to sell the team, I would
you still be or are you there? Do you think
that this is gonna be a multiple? Like if you
set the over under of one and a half first

(01:17:58):
round picks docked from the whippers Man, what does it
say about the culture of us covering the league that
I just turned this entire ordeal into a betting line.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Right. Uh, it says we're keeping up with the times.
So to mean what you said concerns concerns me because
I kind of agree with like this still feels like
a thing where the NBA can decide how big of
a deal do we want this to be for like

(01:18:27):
the wrong reasons, like decide this not on the merits right,
because the way things are worded and the way Adam
Silver might want to interpret this, Like the league might
just decide, well, there's no there's no signed illegal contract
that we can find that proves this. There's no emails
or phone calls or whatever that we somehow.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Just say what I just I'm sorry I didn't like you. Actually,
that's the side, right, we agree to circumvent this.

Speaker 2 (01:18:57):
That's the problem. Well, because they can. I'm not saying
this is I'm saying that's the wrong way to approach it.
But like you could if you just wanted this to
go away, be like, we don't want to set the
precedent of you know, some flimsy paper trail being sufficient
to dock a team draft picks and find it, you know,
to be in violation of all this other like we
don't want to We're gonna need real concrete, Which that's

(01:19:18):
that's bullshit, because the CBA does allow for circumstantial evidence
to prove a case. And because the thing I've most
been hung up on is like the Clippers have to
explain this or they should be punished, right, Like, it's
kind of the same burden shifting argument. They have to
explain this, and so like at this point, I think
the right result is for the league to say, explain it,

(01:19:40):
and then when the Clippers can't do that, the hammer
has to drop and so got to be over the
one and a half first round picks. It's got to
be everything, I think, because if they can't, just if
they can't give a reasonable explanation for what this actually is,
and they haven't tried, maybe because they're just really holding
back like people 's Pablo of for like you know,

(01:20:02):
saving saving some AMMO to like throw back a Cuban piecemeal.
Like I'm just this seems this seems like what it is.
It seems like what Pablo's has been reporting suggested this,
and so it should be the whole thing, all the
picks and seven million dollars fine suspend bomb or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Yeah, seven millions, which you care just joke for Bomber.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
My my thing is, wouldn't you all So let's just
say the NBA decides that this is and this would
factor in the Board of Governors now too, that decides, Okay,
something's amiss here, like this clearly happened. This is what
it was. Is the incentive for them to lay down
the hammer that you're talking about to dissuade other teams
from just to set a precedent of this is what

(01:20:46):
will happen if where it's almost like I guess, as
time separated us from the Joe smith or dealer, you thought,
because you didn't have an agreement signed with the player
in question specifically, it was going to be fine or
are you As I think we've talked about this a
little bit, it seems like the prevailing sentiment amone like
fellow owners, has been no, you have to hit them
for it, And I think I would agree with that.

(01:21:06):
But could there be a level of hesitance here from
other owners not wanting to see the hammer come down
on Bomber because what if that does happen to them?
That's where I go back, and because I think, look,
if the league believes that something is fishy here or
that this happened, that this salary cap circumvention, which they

(01:21:29):
have said themselves is a cardinal sin, you should just
lay down the hammer then, Like if that's what, if
that's what you believe. But I'm also so far removed
from it that I wonder if that's the same discussion
that they're having, is that they're worried about other teams
doing this, or they worried about Adam silver works for
the other owners, is he worried about appeasing them? And
how would they truly feel? Do they want to see

(01:21:50):
Bomber get hit like that? So I'm I still remain
torn on that front too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
I think whatever discussions they're having will cover all of that,
and that is kind of a thorny issue and I
think it will have it will be a talking point
and whenever this gets decided, I think there's a bigger
reason that other owners should want the full punishment to
be laid down, and that is the fans sentiment and

(01:22:17):
public perception side of things. Now, this isn't game fixing,
this isn't gambling, This isn't like truly affecting like the
integrity of the competition, which would be like that talk
about a cardinal sin, like that's it anything that does that.
But it's close enough, and I think fans would have
enough of an issue like all the like tinfoil hat

(01:22:39):
like games are fixed and all this other stuff like
those people would get a lot more like right thinking
people persuaded by this if this is sort of like
loosely enforced because it does affect competitive balance, like if
Bomber or whatever other deep pocketed owner can get a
player he otherwise wouldn't have gotten. And like I say,

(01:23:00):
Kawai stays healthy and the Clippers make some finals or
win a title or something like, I think fans and
the public's perception of the league would there would be
a big enough issue and an enough fallout from that
too that like, were there to be no punishment, that
feel like this is bullshit? What are we watching? Like that?
What are the rules even for If the richest owners

(01:23:22):
can just flout, you know, can just do whatever they
want to pay players whatever they want outside of the
confines of the CBA like that to me seems like
the biggest problem that should inform the punishment here. Assuming
the Clippers did what it seems like they did, right, Like,
that's that's the biggest issue if you have fans tuning
out because this is all like phony or like not competitively,

(01:23:46):
there's no competitive integrity at least financially. Like that's a
huge deal.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
Do you think they'll because the Clippers never even came
close to winning a title during this era, And then
now if you let time kind of separate us from
the heat of this moment, which I'm assuming pablotre podcasts
and updates will eventually stop. And they've already said which
I saw people up in arms that they're show Oh
of course this is gonna not be resolved until after
the All Star break. I probably made that joke too,

(01:24:13):
but like, this wasn't gonna be something where the league
came out on opening night and yeah, Doc, the Clippers
a bunch of picks. But so you don't think there's
a possibility though that I don't even want to say
the benefit of time, but the like time erodes the
outrage over this, and like, like you said, if they won,
had the Clippers want a title ever made a finals,
like maybe it's a different story, but I'm just wondering

(01:24:36):
how much outrage they'll be when it's all right. If
they were gonna win at that level at any point,
it would have happened already, like because they're good now,
but no one's picking them to come out of the West.
And yes, if the clippers of the One Seed or
something as we get into the All Star break, this
will be rekindled. I'm just curious, and I only say this,
and I'm not just gonna bring up examples because they're

(01:24:57):
so morbid, but the way that society just moves from
so much other shit. I can't sit here and just
believe that we're all like principled enough to like really
be like following up like me and you were gonna
do a check in on this every other week or something.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
Throughout our attention spans are destroyed and yeah, like there
will just be some new shitty thing to distract us
or whatever. That that's all true. I just think, like
this doesn't seem to be how it works in the
broader world that the moment. But like any system that
has a set of rules that doesn't enforce them when

(01:25:33):
broken if there's not really any harm, like that's a
fucked up set of rules. Like what's the point of rules,
you know what I mean? Like, what's the point of
rules if nobody gets punished for breaking them? Unless that
in this instance, the Clippers want a title, Oh, we
got to enforce it now Like that, that doesn't make
any sense, Like you, the rules exist, like so everyone
follows them regardless of sort of like the outcome of

(01:25:55):
breaking I'm mex I'm messing up my analogy, but like
you know what I mean, Like, it shouldn't matter that
they didn't win a title to us in so far
as we care about the rules being enforced like that,
that shouldn't be a factor.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
One. I don't know who has the grant f bomb
counter going, but we can finally jack it up by one,
which I think might bring his total to two.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
I only drop it after around the ninety minute mark
of a long.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
Pot and then two. I would agree with you, but
I know this is on a different level. But like,
don't you think we would have seen something with more
forceful with tampering than should Like shouldn't it be kind
of a big bigger deal what the Knicks did with
Jalen Brunson.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
It's a I'm being naive because you're right, Like the
reason tampering doesn't get enforced. Is because there's a whole
industry that loves the news leaks and like the speculation
and all this stuff. Right, really, so what industry I
wouldn't want to work in that? I know some people
that we just talked about Yanni straight make a decent
living off of it. But yeah, no, I think that's fair.

(01:26:54):
I just this seems like a big enough deal to
where it's different.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
I feel the same way, but you use the word
I feel like I'm naive about it to where it's
just we really we think that we not that we
got them. We think, oh, like something's really gonna come
from this, and then it just won't. I just had
one final question on this. I don't know if you
read the Athletic piece last week, they did like a
profile of Uncle Dennis, which it really is funny. They
pointed out that he's known as Uncle Dennis. You know

(01:27:21):
immediately who everyone's talking about. You don't need to go
go with this full name.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Do you?

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
What do you do you assign any blame? Is there
any like like discontent on your part towards Kawhi slash
Uncle Dennis or is this just all they did? Was
ask the systems in place are supposed to prevent that,
and the Clippers didn't, and this is all on them.
Because so I'll begin by saying this, honestly, don't know
how to feel the whole I'm not a very persistent

(01:27:47):
person in the sense of when I was doing reporting
and on site stuff, I ended up being really bad
at it because I viewed myself as an intrusion upon
people's lives by being persistent. The idea of Uncle Dennis
continuously asking for these outrageous things and having no shame
about it, it it makes me uncomfortable. But he's also
kind of the advocate for Kawhi Leonard and has done

(01:28:08):
a bunch of great things for and you said it.
You said it as a joke a few weeks ago,
but find me Uncle Dennis, and you're like, yeah, who
wouldn't want someone like you advocating for that. At the
same time, you could push back and say, is that
like behavior you want to be associated with or remembered
by with Kauhi? And then you come back and say, well,
how is it really hurt Kauhi? And is not NBA

(01:28:29):
teams haven't wanted him because if this has been the
exact opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
I would say, I'm getting real cynical now as we're
winding down, Like does it seems like there's a pretty
direct correlation between people who don't have those same compunctions
that you and I do about being an intrusion or
being like pushy or like asking for things that are
outside the rules. Like those people tend to be pretty
successful and make a lot of money because they're not

(01:28:53):
held back by the like the concerns about am I
being an asshole? Like you know, like that would like that,
so I wouldn't. I would How about this? I think
there is a case to be made that like Uncle
Dennis is just being an awesome advocate, like he's doing
the best he can for Kawhi, like any representative should
do for the person he or she represents. It's on

(01:29:15):
the team to be like, no, that's illegal, we can't
do that. Don't ask again, Like but I at the
same time, like, while that seems like, yeah, he's being
a good representative, it's the team's responsibility. If you're like
raising a kid, like, don't be that way. That's like that,
don't ask someone to break the rules if you know
what the rules are. That's like not what a good
person does. So like maybe that's where I land on.

(01:29:37):
It's like, that's not a cool thing to do. But
if you're trying to just selfishly or I guess you
know by proxy selfishly, do the best you can for
the person you're representing, Like that's that is how you're
gonna get which the best stuff. That is how you're
gonna get what you want. Unfortunately, we have a question
that chat. Don't you think this has a chance to
harm Kauhi's leg What's what's what legacy? What is his legacy?

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Yeah, because it didn't it's not associated with the way
he won either of his titles. If anything, I guess
you could backtrack and say, because Uncle Dennis was at
the heart of his departure from San Antonio, he ends
up in Toronto. But maybe it would be different. His
legacy is going to be one of what if because
he won two titles and then had all those injuries.
I think that will always be the bigger chunk of

(01:30:21):
his legacy. Then I don't know what would need to
happen with this for it to I guess that the
Clippers got doct built the five first round picks would that.
I'd like he'd be more he would come up more often,
but I still think he'll be sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
Go ahead, I think either way, this is in This
is in the first paragraph of his Wikipedia entry, like
the of the short version of the Islanders that we're
measuring legacies, Well, it's just like if you're thirty years
from now, Kawi. Leonard won a title with the San
Antonio Spurs and then later with the Raptors. Was embroiled
in a cap circumvention scandal towards the end of his

(01:30:55):
career with the Clippers amid injuries. Like yeah, yeah, it's
like titles injury, this thing, it's all gonna be right
at the top.

Speaker 1 (01:31:02):
I think I think it will be more of a
legacy stainer for Steve Bomber and this clip right era
than it will be for Quhi is what. I don't
know whether that's right or wrong, but I think that's
will ultimately end up.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
Well, we'll lump all this in with like the Clippers
were just such a narrow do Well franchise forever, Like
the jump from Sterling to this will be just like
same old Clippers, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Wow, Yeah, especially with the passage of time or I
guess in years, this could be next summer that we're all.

Speaker 2 (01:31:25):
It's only like ten years apart, it's gonna be. It
might as well have been a week as far as
I'm concerned.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
We have one more topic to get to, right, Why.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
Didn't we end with the Clippers here? So? Uh we
clocked this like separately because Jeremy Grant said he does
not expect to come off the bench. And then you
had some more here what's going on with their lineup decisions?
Because maybe you could say this was easy to see
coming when they kind of two timelined it with Drew
Holliday coming in and young players. Now you've got Scoot
Henderson with a torn hamstring. Don't like torn, by the way,

(01:31:56):
can we just say strained? Because when did we start
using torn? And it's one to two months?

Speaker 1 (01:32:01):
Isn't they say the same? Is it like every sprain
every spring?

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
Okay, yeah, but like don't say don't say torn, say
strainers or whatever. Robert Williams shocker uh has and flow
recovered from left knee surgery. This sucks like he just
you know, can't he's just it's been years and years
of this with just can't get all the way right physically.
So how does that affect the logjam at center that

(01:32:25):
still exists even without DeAndre in there? Like, what are
we doing with this lineup? What who should play? Like
Jeremy Grant seriously think he's gonna start? That seems wild
to me.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
It becomes a little bit easier. I guess now that
scoots out because I think you just do Timani Clinging, Drew,
Jeremy and Shaden and then you're done.

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
But once you're starting Denny Avdia, holy shit, So the
forwards forward, the forwards have gotta be Denny and Timani,
all of them.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Uh, Drew, Shayden.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Clinging, Donovan, I don't know. I guess is Shaydon coming
off the bench? Then if if Jeremy Grant starting, Shaden's
the one because you can't bring Timani or Denny off
the bench, that is bananas.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
Well, and I do not I don't love the Timani
Denny Grant wing combo.

Speaker 1 (01:33:16):
Like true, I mean, there's a lot of defense with Klingon,
that's a really hell of a defensive lineup. I mean,
I think if by the Way was saying that they
could throw out some pretty terrifying defensive lineups and I
agree that's accurate.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Also, a lot of talk today independent of the lineup,
stuff like they're really gonna run, which like, yeah, that
sounds good to me. I think, I think that's the
way to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
They're not gonna run with the starting lineup we just
laid out.

Speaker 2 (01:33:40):
I mean, well, Klingen's best shape of his life. Dand
know if you heard he lost like he lost fifteen pounds.

Speaker 1 (01:33:47):
Is he also shooting threes?

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Probably? Probably?

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
So who should start? Like, here's my thing. The other
the variable that we're playing on accounting for enough is
that Timani Kamara's extension eligible and if he doesn't sign one, like,
is he gonna be sitting here trying to play for
his next contract? Shade and Sharp? Is he gonna get
an extension? What are the and if you bring Shadon
Sharp off the bench after not giving him an extension,
the politicking there is so bizarre. This is such a

(01:34:13):
I'm not this isn't like a terrible situation. They have
a lot of good players, but at some point they
need to divorce themselves. I'm using Jeremy Grant as the
billboard for like, divorce yourself from this idea that you
need to start, Jeremy Grant, divorce yourself from this idea
that even Drew Holliday needs to start, I think right now, yeah,
sure Scoot is out, but if you still believe in

(01:34:34):
him and Shadon, you have to. And even if you
want to say starting is overrated, we're okay. How are
you closing games with this team? Does Jeremy Grant expect
to be on the court in crunch time too? There's
just they have a lot of options in a good way,
but their timelines are there's just such a dichotomy between them.
I'm I don't know. This is just it's bizarre. So
who would you start?

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
The non negotiables? To me, are Kamara and Opdia like that?
There's you No one is starting over those two. So
to me, that means Jeremy Grant's not starting because I'm
not starting him at the two and I'm not starting
with the five, So that leaves clinging at the five.
Drew's got to start, Like I just I don't know
if Scoot I think I would have had Scoot and
him start together and Sharp come off the bench. So

(01:35:15):
now I guess I'm starting Sharp because I don't want
Jeremy Grant and Abdiya and Kamara together. I just that
doesn't make sense to me. But if, but if maybe
the squeaky wheel gets the grease, maybe, if Jeremy Grant's
going to make a thing out of it, Sharp is
the one that comes off the bench. I wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Here's here is I would. I agree with everything you said,
But now I'm wondering, Okay, so that's your starting lineup.
What happens when Scoot comes back. Is it easier to say, well, Scoot,
you got injured again, You're coming off the bench. Or
are the Blazers thinking maybe Sharp will start the season
coming off the bench because that's where he's gonna stay.
We'll put Scoot in for Jeremy Grant when when he
returns from his injury. I'm not trying to give that

(01:35:53):
pat me Merritt, just wondering if that's.

Speaker 2 (01:35:55):
A thought that's a possibility. I mean, Sharp did come
off the bench for stretches last year. He kind of
he wasn't like a guaranteed starter, as I recall. So
that's not ideal because you want him to seize that
job and have him become a non negotiable but that
hasn't happened yet. I guess I think, like I think
maybe the way it goes is like you can sort

(01:36:15):
of justify to scoot, like because you're behind, you're coming
off this injury, you want to manage your minutes, like
maybe he's the one that you're you're gonna get away
with coming off the bench. But that doesn't solve the
Jeremy Grant problem either. So I don't know this. This
does feel like they kind of put themselves in this
position with the way they put the roster together, doesn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Maybe, But I think if you're getting strong armed by
Jeremy Grant, you have bigger problems as an Orgistracian or
should not be able to strong arm you after last year,
So like you paid him, like he got so this
is this is what he signed up for too, Like
you knew that Dame was on his way out when
you stayed here, So I would bring him off the
bench now and for the rest of the season. And
even that just doesn't take care of it because one

(01:36:56):
of Shade and or scooed. It seems like unless you're
leaving Drew or starting without a big and I would
argue they're more likely to start young handsome John Hanson
than they are to play without a big to begin games.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
Right, they they just like several teams, they've just got
a logjam up front. No, I think I think that's right.
I think like if Jeremy Grant had had, like I
don't know what a normal Jeremy Grant season is, but
had had a much better year than he had last year,
there'd be a case. But he just didn't play well enough.
Like that's that's that's kind of the long and short
of it, right, And he's like not a future piece

(01:37:28):
for them by any stretch.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
Like, it's also just amazing because and we have a
comment Dames here to be the leader to stop guys
from complaining about the role. I didn't think about that,
So hopefully he can take. But also Dame's not even
hell Like imagine Dame was playing this season. How much
more complicated this entire thing gets.

Speaker 2 (01:37:45):
Yeah, No, I think I think we'll get the right
result there. Eventually. We did it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
Do you have any counter? Yeah, we got through it.
I think we wanted to do this in like a
buck fifteen year, probably say three minutes per what item
we had, so we definitely went over.

Speaker 2 (01:37:57):
But yeah, well we had to go out the Clippers
pretty good. I have nothing to add to you have
anything to add.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
Well, I do. Did you hear that Jay Huff found
out about his trade to the Indiana Pacers while hiding
in a pantry during a game of hide and seek?
I think that's per Tony East of Forbes.

Speaker 2 (01:38:14):
He must have been very confident in his hiding spot
to be on the phone in there, because the light
might have been visible to any any good seeker is
going to be looking for.

Speaker 1 (01:38:23):
He's clearly better at hide and seek Thanny. His basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
Gotta be pretty hard to hide as a seven footer.
How big is this pantry?

Speaker 1 (01:38:33):
Right? I mean, he's definitely one of the have you
ever seen like professional tag they have like competent like
living room where there's furniture and stuff. Now I'm imagining
that he plays that, So maybe he plays competitively with that,
Like it's a hide and seek situation.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
There we need to start. It's a million dollar idea.

Speaker 1 (01:38:49):
Should the next Hardwoo Knock summit that will be uh
massive about hide and seek among the Sakas.

Speaker 2 (01:38:55):
I mean, thanks everybody for listening, for watching, Thanks for
all the comments, but really appreciate that. Thanks to the
NBA for Media Day and just just content rich comments
and controversies. I guess not really. Please remember rate review, subscribe,
leave us positive reviews you can. You can hype this
YouTube video if you want to. That's a fun new thing.

(01:39:15):
Also thumbs up and leave us some comments there. Let
us know what you think. If we missed anything all
that good stuff, join our discord links for that in
YouTube and podcast description over under. A competition coming up.
You're gonna want to get in on that so you
can beat us, which most not most, but a lot
of people typically do. A lot.

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
A lot of people beat beast. You were middle of that,
a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (01:39:36):
Yeah, still might have been a majority cop vide. But anyway,
join our discord there. I think that's gonna cover it.
Thanks as always, shouts Franklin Kin Apologies Jarrett now

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