Los Angeles Clippers 2025-26 NBA Season Lookahead

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
What is up?

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Fellasiko's m Dana Valley coming at you with a super
brief intro. Before we have our Los Angeles Clippers look ahead,
I have Justin Russo back. He covers the Los Angeles
Clippers and the LA Sparks for his substack. Find that
link in the YouTube and podcast description. We recorded this
on Tuesday night the news about Kawhi Leonard the Clippers,

(00:27):
the now defunct environmental company where they allegedly were able
to circumvent the salary cap by paying him out twenty
eight million dollars. That report from Pablo Torre finds out
with some follow up stuff from the Athletic. We recorded
it all before this happened. I will record a separate
podcast if anything really comes with this. As of right now,
the League is investigating. The Clippers deny it. Steve Bomber

(00:47):
denies it. We'll see how this plays out. It's objectively funny,
so hopefully you appreciate the title of this episode as
well as the thumbnail. I believe that I'll be making
for it, but just wanted to give you a heads up.
We didn't ignore it. It was just recorded like twelve
hours or something before the news actually broke. But let's
get to some actual basketball talk. What is up, fella,

(01:07):
Sicco's I'm Dan for Valley, coming at you with another
twenty twenty five twenty twenty six NBA season look ahead.
We're on to those pesky Los Angeles Clippers, which means,
for the third straight year running, I have the distinct
pleasure of being joined by Justin Russo. He covers the
Clippers as well as the LA Sparks and some soccer
two for his sub stack, the link to which will

(01:29):
be in the podcast and YouTube description. Go subscribe to him.
He's awesome. You can find him on the social machines
at fly by Night. Night is spelled Knie justin welcome back.
Before I ask how you're doing, I just a psa.
This is your third time here, so as I tell
everyone who's been on at least three times, it's now
your fault. The first two times you could do me
a solog. You don't know what you're in for. Now

(01:50):
it's your fault. How the heck are you doing? Welcome back?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Well, it's not the first time I've heard something that's
been my fault, so you know this is this is
natural for me. I'm doing good man. It's been a
long twelve months. But you know, as you said, covering
the WNBA, covering soccer, it's giving me, as we talked
about before going live, it's giving me a nice little
reinvigoration into the covering the world of the NBA. So,
you know, the Clippers are gonna be exciting, and I'm

(02:14):
thrilled to be talking about them.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, that's not what I said last year going into
this being thrilled about the Clippers. I was going back
through my notes, so let's putting together this year's outline,
and I predictably destroyed them for everything they did. They
just go out and they were probably like they had
to be the NBA's biggest surprise. So for you covering
the team and like following them so intimately, what was

(02:36):
kind of the biggest revelation or takeaway for you from
how last season unfolded.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
I think what I talked to you last year, I
think I pegged them at like forty three wins and
they got to.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
I probably had them lower. Yeah, I was probably like, oh,
they're gonna get like twenty. I don't remember what the
number was, but I was probably like in the thirties at.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
They they look I don't care internally, or they'll tell
you they expected to be good last year. They did
not expect to be fifty one good. But the biggest
revelation for me it was just and I guess it
shouldn't have been when looking at the off season they
had last year, but like, seriously, just how hard they
played every night. It wasn't There was very few nights

(03:14):
they just were like, all right, we don't have it tonight,
let's pack it up. It was We're just gonna compete,
you know, our tails off for forty eight minutes every
night and just let's see what happens. And it worked.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
The thing that struck me and I think you could
we could have we talked about this, you could see
it going in, was that they, well, actually, I want
to start here because before we get into the nitty
gritty basketball stuff of it all, given the way that
they've structured their books, just looking at this, like the
deals that they've signed and what they could do next
summer in the summer of twenty twenty seven, what should
we be like read like, how deeply should we be

(03:47):
reading into that? Do they view this as just like
a placeholder team that can be super competitive in the
meantime or is this like, I don't want to say
a core. They're prepared to mortgage everything they continue building around,
but if opportunity present themselves, they will look to improve it,
because that's what they come off this fifty win season.
They're they're the biggest surprise. They make move everyone make
moves everyone likes. But they also seem very geared towards

(04:10):
while we're planning for like twenty twenty seven and beyond.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, this is oddly enough. This has just been their
plan for the last couple of years too, Like when
they lost PG last summer and we were here talking
about it, their plan was always we're gonna look two
years into the future, and last year they played with
house money and it worked. This year, they're kind of
just they did like the soft pivot of like, let's actually, hey,

(04:35):
maybe we're not that far off from actually competing based
on what they saw last year in the postseason. You know,
dem and Denver go seven games. Several of those games
could have gone either way, and then you see what
Denver and okay See did against each other. It's like
maybe it gave them a false sense of hey, we're not.
We're not that far off. Maybe we're a little bit
closer and if we just get a guy here and
a guy there. But they they've never once deviated from

(04:58):
their thought process of twenty six and twenty seven of
the summers they're aiming for. Granted, the summer of twenty
six took a brief hit with Luca re signing with
the Lakers. But you know, as as Keith Smith loves
to say on Twitter, cap space isn't just for signing
free agents. Well it can't.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
It can't be anymore because of the free agents that
are available, right.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, that's the thing. I mean, as we've seen over
the last couple years is outside the PG situation where
he obviously left and got two hundred and twenty million
dollars or two undred and fifty million, whatever it was, you
just don't see high profile free agents leave anymore.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Which down like the biggest of them, he wasn't even
builled as that type of player when it happened in
twenty twe I'm trying to think of I'm sure of
forgetting somebody.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
I guess it would be Miles Turner, right, Like Miles
Turner was pretty big pivot pivoting from Indeed to Milwaukee, but.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Also zero career All Star. That's not I love Myles Turner.
That's not even made an All Star game. We're talking
like that was a pretty big free agency move.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
So like, yeah, actually, like the last multi time all
start if you if you push PG to the side,
I don't know with the last multi time in their prime,
like top level dollar free agent who left was I
mean Clay went to Dallas, but it wasn't I don't
even think. Yeah, yeah, but Golden State also didn't really
try to retain them.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
There's also a signing trade too that I mean, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
So I don't. I mean, it's just the nature of
the NBA now where these teams have cap space and
they figure out different ways to kind of leverage that
into getting the players they want, whether it's through trade
or you know. How however, it's just I think we've
had to like change our thinking with free agency and
like that much cap space. It's mostly just to facilitate trades,

(06:42):
but also bring in lower level free agents that you
can pay a little bit over what other teams can
to then so that when you trade for guys, you
have pieces around them. That kind of kind of fit
in a little bit better. So I mean it, but
the Clippers, in the context of the Clippers, they're playing
for twenty six and they're playing for twenty seven. Trey

(07:03):
Young has a player option for twenty twenty six. I've
seen his name. That will not shock me. I'm just
gonna say right now, this might sound crazy, I understand
the situation. It would not shock me if a year
from now you and I are doing a fourth year
of this where you have me on and we're talking
about Clippers starting point guard Trey Young, it just wouldn't
shock Wow. No, I'm not saying they're gonna get him,
but I'm just saying the possibility of that, like it's

(07:26):
it's something that I can't sweep under the rug is like, oh,
that's cute, but it's not gonna happen, Like we don't know.
Things change.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, I'm fascinated by them, and just serve these other
teams that have already made these bigger trades in the
rear view and they're still rating for some of their
draft picks to reaccumulate because it's you're probably not gonna
have a young building block and like nobody's the thunder
where you also have these young building blocks and tow
there are other teams like the Rockets that might be
straddling that line. But then you also don't necessarily have
the trade assets to go out and get that caps

(07:56):
lock star if they become up, Like the Clippers don't
have the best package for a Giannis if he becomes
available next summer, and they probably won't like if he
becomes available next scummer. Excuse me? So does free agency
come back around in that regard then? And I think
the Clippers are also an interesting case because a team
like them, the Lakers, even Miami like, when you're in
those markets, cap space might actually mean something to you

(08:17):
in free agency, where it's not going to for a
lot of these other teams, which which has always been
the case, but it feels like the difference is even
starker now because of how few high profile free agents
are actually leaving yet.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
So next year they would have the ability next Auste
then have the ability to I think it's trade two
first and swap two first, cause they can they can
trade twenty thirty and thirty two and then swap thirty
one and thirty three. I think is what they can do,
so like they'd have the ability to trade essentially four picks.

(08:50):
But I also don't get the sense that they're in
that mode right now of hey, let's just go trade
more picks. I mean right, they kind of want to
see what's gonna happen. I mean, asset wise, Yeah, they're
a little strapped. I remember riding in the summer a
couple months ago when it started that you mentioned Gianness.
The only way they're gonna even get in the ballpark

(09:11):
for your honis is if he specifically says I want
to go to the Clippers, like that's literally it.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Otherwise there's their off best offer would be the type
of offer that a team that's not on his list,
or if the but I mean it's the Bucks, the honest.
We know how the relationship plays into the politicking of
all that. But if they wanted to just send him
somewhere on a whim, they could probably get more than
what the Clig. You would he would have to go
full on James Harden forcing his way to the Clippers,
Like yeah, really happen.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, So that's why I kind of look at the
Giannis things like it's nice to think about but that's
not exactly the reality of the situation. But beyond that,
it's kind of interesting because I know a lot's been
made about the roster. I'm sure we'll get into it
about like their age and all this stuff, but like
they went out and got John Collins, who's like in
his prime, and I feel I feel like that gets

(09:58):
kind of pushed under the rug, and like Zuo's in
his prime and that type of stuff. So it's it's
kind of fascinating. I'm not gonna use like the Warriors
euphemism of two timelines, but it does feel like we're
at the here's the aging Vets who are still really good,
these guys in their prime who are probably gonna have

(10:19):
to punch above their weight a little bit to make
everything work, but also they very well could.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
So about the actual roster. Watching them last year, I
think for the most part which strikes you is how
they were performing defensively. Their offseason has been fascinating to me.
And I'm gonna go back and forth here for a second,
because my first inclination is looking at what I think
they're starting five is gonna be. And I think you
agree that John Collins and Bradley Bee will both start.
I find myself wondering if they then over indexed on offense,

(10:48):
because now Kaui, his defensive workload in the starting lineup
feels like it's higher. I have all the respect in
the world for what Zoo does defensively, But then I
start to look at the bench and I'm like Brook Lopez,
Derek Jones, Junior, Chris dun and like, this team has defenders. Still.
What have you made though of kind of the pivot
to them leaning into the offensive? Where do you land
on that entire discussion that I just because I've gone

(11:10):
back and forth to where I'm like, yeah, I think
they might have gone too far, and they're like, well,
maybe not really.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
I'm glad you actually mentioned that, especially like looking at
their bench to be like, well, actually, they still have defenders,
because I had the same conversation two months ago with
a colleague and we were having this like really end
up conversation about their roster and like what it looks like,
cause obviously, like you knew they were getting Bradley Bill
at that point, and so he goes, uh, like they
kind of got away from their defensive identity, didn't they?

(11:38):
And I was like, no, they just kind of pivoted because, like,
of their top eight minutes players last year, I believe
it was the two who left are Norman Powell and
a Mere Coffee, and those are offense first guys, Like
those are their best shooters from last year, but those
are offense first type players. So they still kept Derek Jones,
they still kept Chris dun They added Brook Lopez, as

(11:59):
he said, and all of a sudden you look at
them and you're like, you know what, they just kind
of recalibrated because their problem in the playoffs was their defense. First,
guys were not respected offensively, right, Like that was a
big problem. If you look at their offensive numbers for
the season after Kawhi came back, they were I want
to say, they were like top eight in offense, but

(12:22):
their defense took a little bit of a slip. But
they still finished the year obviously really good defensively. It
was just there was like not enough offensive ceiling to
cover the defensive part of the equation where you had
to play guys for defense, but teams weren't really respecting them,
and so it kind of bogged things down for them

(12:42):
a little bit offensively and so I think what you've
seen is they recalibrated a little bit to where And
this is my personal belief of watching basketball of lately,
So this is just my thought on this. I think
we've become too keyed in on that or beholden to
to the idea that defense wins championships. I'm sure Nico

(13:03):
Harrison is somewhere pumping his fist about what I just said.
But I do think that offense is the great equalizer
because defenders can get played off the floor offensive players
who are great. It becomes very hard, even in a
defensive setting where you're attacking them to play them off

(13:27):
because their value on offense is so high. But if
someone's value on defense is at the equal level of
someone's offense, but they're not paid attention to on offense,
it kind of can bog four other guys down where
they're not able to pick up that slack. So I
think the Clippers kind of just were like, let's increase
the offensive firepower to take some of the workload off James.

(13:49):
James had a very high workload last year. I think
he was like top five and minutes or something, and
he was.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Just true usage too, is like the highest it's been
in years, which is just like, h that's not where
it should be when he's in his mid thirties.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
And he got burnt out, Like by the end of
the playoffs, he was burnt out. And look, I know
people can make their James Harden playoff jokes and that's fine,
but that man was burnt out by the end of
the playoffs and had I mean, he killed himself getting
them into the playoffs at that point. And they need
to protect Kawhi on offense a little bit because of
his workload as well. And I also think it was

(14:21):
a signal that they've searched and I think incorrectly for
a third star abroad for like these last few years.
They went and got James for Kawhi and PG. They
obviously did the rust thing with Kawhi and PG. They've
done these different things of like these name guys, and

(14:41):
so a lot of people are gonna look at the
Bradley Beal signing and think, well, Bradley bial is the
third Star. I think they've stumbled organically onto a third
star in Zoo and I think that's what they're actually
also basing these signings off of which are what if
we get Zoo another guard who can shoot and a
power forward in John Collins who can shoot and also

(15:04):
roll and do these types of things, because Zoo's really
good as a short role passer, so he could hit
John Collins on corner cuts and stuff, I think, And
also Collins is a good rebounder, so everything's not on Zoo.
So a lot of the and getting Brook Lopez, we
don't want to kill Zoo like everything for the offseason
to me mostly felt how do we protect Zoo and

(15:28):
not wear him out because of how vital he is
to what they do on both ends?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
How do you see that? How do you see what
they have around him now where they did run more
things through him last year? How do you see his
offensive role being impacted by like these new additions they've
made where it's specifically I think one Bradley Beal's another
ball handler that's integrated in the equation, and then two
this isn't as big of a problem because they are
floor spacers. But like some of the times John Collins

(15:55):
has struggled is I don't think he's always at his
best when he's not able to be used as the
primary screener, and so when you're playing him with another
big I think it can work, but I don't know
if that's where he's best optimized. And so I'm just
curious is to see, like, are they gonna try and
get these guys independent minutes of Zoo as well? And
then how do you just use Zoo when you have
more offensive options around him? Is there a chance for
his He did a lot last year. I don't I

(16:17):
don't remember what he finished on the Most Improved Player ballot,
but it was probably too low. But he just did
so much last year. I'm curious as to how this
changes his offensive role.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
I think to the lineup thing, I think he'll see
guys get individual time because they're gonna need it like
you need to. You know. The joke with the Clippers
with media is a tinkering Tie. Tie likes to tinker
with lineups to figure out what can and cannot work,
and so he'll spend the first half of the season
trying to figure things out, which is fine. So I

(16:45):
think I'll see that. I don't know what else Zoo
can show. I think last year was arguably the best
season a Clipper centers ever had, which I know, like
people are gonna look at like DeAndre Jordan was third
team All NBA one year and like first team All Defense.
I think the year Zoo had was so much better.
Like the things he was able to do. He carried

(17:07):
them offensively for stretches of games that was just remarkable.
And adding brad is gonna take touches away from Zoo,
But I'm also unsure how much because Norm got a
lot of touches and that's I don't know, it's not
necessarily like for Lack because Bradley's better on the ball

(17:29):
than Norm was.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
It feels like Norm Powell feels like a quicker like
decision maker. He's not as good as a passer by
any stretch, but he definitely feels like he's more of
a quicker decision maker.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, so you might see the Clippers offense be a
little bit slower this year.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
They're gonna be like, what is transition? That word is
not an ar vocabulary.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Well, actually their answer to that is transition is John Collins.
That's why we got him. And you're just gonna be like,
I guess you know, but no, I think Zoo's role
is gonna be the fascinating watch because he's probably the
guy who who could take the biggest hit production wise
in terms of like raw numbers, but his impact will

(18:06):
still like you'll still feel the same of like, wow,
this guy's like he's so invaluable because every time he
sat last year, they got hammered. It was it was
drastic how much they needed him on the floor in
every situation.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
His I also last year was cool because I think
it finally shed a national or more of a national
spotlight on how valuable he is. Like defensively, he's been
by value by metric like one of the best rim
protectors for a while now, and then people are starting
to think, like looking at his position or the way
he's even able to move his feet, like he's just
so much better on that end than I think a
lot of people, including myself probably realized like until the

(18:42):
past few years. And so it was cool to see
him get not just the recognition for whoa look at
he's doing all this stuff, or looking at his usage
just skyrocketing on offense. You did mention insulating him though
a bit, which is like important because his this wasn't
a guy who was playing as many minutes as he
was last year, like those just upticked precipitously, but by
necessity of course.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, they were worried. I know for a fact, they
were worried about burning them out, like they've always been
worried about. He's a big body like and look, not
everyone is. Nikola Jokic's like energizer bunny of he can
just roll out of bed and play forty minutes a
night of like one hundred possessions, handles, looking like he went.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Through a war. His yeahs are always just like yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
I know this is a quick sidebar. But like, Nikola
Jokic might be the greatest athlete I've ever seen. And
that sounds crazy because you don't think of him as
like the super athlete. But his motor, when you consider
what they're asking him to do on a night to
night basis in the minutes he plays is crazy. Yeah,
and like no, what no other player does that really?
But with Zoo, it's it's they were worried about wearing

(19:41):
them out, which is why you saw the Brook Lopez signing.
They knew they needed another backups. They knew they needed
a backup center, not another they needed a backup center.
So they go and get Brooke, but they get John
who can play the five. They have Nico who can
play the five. They have all these types of guys
who they can fill in for spot minutes. So the
their thing is to protect him because I think they've realized,

(20:02):
as weird as it sounds, on a team with Kawhi
Leonard and James Harden, if he's the Zubos might be
the franchise at this point.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
That's such a bizarre thing to say, and I really
don't have any pushback against it.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
It's it is strange, like it's a stripe thing to say,
but also I think it's true.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Praise be Mike Muskala. I mean, heyly shift to the
Clippers franchise.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
That's the first Clipper statue that goes up, by the way.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
So there's no argument from a talent in a vacuum
perspective going from Norman Pallell to Bradley Beal. Even if
you didn't like Bradley Bule in Phoenix, he still shot
the hell out of the ball. It is, in theory
a talent upgrade, I think because a lot of what
he could do on the ball. We saw Norm do
some more of that stuff, but he did fade and
also Bradley Beal is just like that's someone whose role
can scale to the playoffs. Why should we believe, though,

(20:53):
that the fit in Los Angeles is going to go
so much better than it did in Phoenix? And I
say that with the caveat of I think Bradley Beal
tried really hard to adapt in year one. I think
the shooting numbers were still fine through the time that
he was there, but it was just by the end
of it, like he was just very clearly disenchanted with
his role. Is this more of an eyes wide open situation?
Is it that the Clippers are built to give him

(21:13):
more of the role that he is supposed to play.
I think it's more so the latter. I guess I
just don't trust that Bradley Beal is as adaptable as
a lot of people believe that he is. After watching
what happened in Phoenix.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
What I can tell you is they believe his Phoenix
stint was an anomaly. Yeah, they just think that it
was just not doomed from the start, but just something
was off from the get go. And I don't think
I think they're going in with like a cautious optimism,
so to speak of he just had two coaches in

(21:48):
two years in Phoenix, and they changed systems, they changed defenses,
they did all this stuff. And you know, I think
they're cautiously optimist that the Bradley Beal from Washington is
the real one, not the one from Phoenix. Although the
one in Phoenix, as you mentioned offensively, when I went

(22:08):
through it, did a deep dive on Bradley Bial for
an article that I wrote a couple months ago where
I looked at data and film and all this stuff.
He had a great offensive year. Like if you just
like as you said, if you just go through his
offensive numbers, Bradley Bial had a fantastic offensive year. The
problem was Bradley Bial's defense was horrendous. The entire Phoenix

(22:30):
defense was horrendous, and the vibes were just horrific. And
they think their chemistry in the locker room mixed with
their defensive infrastructure from last year and the need for
a shooting guard, like an actual shooting guard, is gonna
give brad I guess, a little bit of a boost

(22:52):
to get back to where he was in Washington. And
there was a very funny thing that happened with when
Lawrence Frank had his Zoom interview with us. I think
it was like the week was it the week after
A couple of days after like the Bradley Beal signing
became official, and I wrote this really long form piece
on Bradley Beal, And in the thing, Lawrence Frank just

(23:15):
makes mention of we've seen all the data that everyone
has about his defense. We've seen we've seen all the
same video. We know the concerns, but we're optimistic that
basically he'll get back to the level that he was
before Phoenix. And it just made me think like, oh,
they've read the bad stuff. They know, they know, they

(23:35):
know the negative downside of what this could be. But also,
at the end of the day, Bradley Beal for five million,
where are you finding that? Like you know, like that's
too big, that's too good of a swing to not take.
It's like, oh, you it's like someone throwing you a
center cut fastball on a three to one count and
you're just like, uh, you got a swing.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Like, is is there like anything that you're either concerned
about or that you think he's really going to need
to change or like just adjust to be like properly
integrated into a lineup. That's gonna have James sar and
he's gonna spend time with Kawhi will probably see some
of him with CP three. They're gonna want to use
Zoo in certain ways.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
He can't. He can't doddle on the ball. You can't.
You can't be dribbling the air out of the ball
for fifteen seconds on a you know shot clock every eight, nine,
ten possessions. You can't do that. Like it's that's number
one and one. B would actually just be defense, like
he has to try. He's gonna be their main point
of attack defender in the starting lineup. That's literally what's

(24:40):
gonna happen. They already said it. That's their that's their
main defender on ball handlers. They're gonna I think, which
by the way, I know people are gonna be just
like scoff at that and be like, well, that's crazy.
He's not a good defender. I agree, But they're thinking,
at least to me, is how do you keep Bradley
beal engaged? You make him engaged?

Speaker 2 (25:02):
I it's I guess it's not a bad bet. The
thing that I struggle over with the starting five is
because if we expect Collins to start. Harden is a
four on defense, and so you want Bradley beal guarding
the point of attack. That does kind of complicate life
for John Collins or it ends up making life on
zoobots a lot harder. And I think that's why it's

(25:22):
just again, I'm not saying it won't work. This team
deserves the benefit of the doubt after last year, and
I understand why they will start who we expect them
to start, but I just still am sort of in
the regular season, I just feel like, is there gonna
be a potential for a slow starter or are they
just gonna run into some issues with that starting five.
Maybe on the defensive end. There's no really arguing with

(25:43):
the offensive upside of it, though, especially in a playoff setting.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Dan, can I introduce you to the school of Jeff
van Gundy. This is gonna be as great as challenge
as getting that group. But in all seriousness, it's yeah,
James is a four. So like that's why I like
the low of the athletic who covers the Clippers like
we always talk about all the time, Like James wasn't
guardian point guards. James was the low man. James was

(26:07):
literally the power forward. That's why you got eight hundred
block slash steals last year, just swiping down guys as
they went to the rim. So it's gonna be brad
on the ball handler the number one option. You get
Kawhi who's on the number two and is able to
play help side, and he and John are probably switchable
to where if Kawhi needs to play more help side,

(26:29):
you could have John guard more on the ball. Doesn't
mean John's gonna be a great level of doing it,
but it's like you gotta figure things. And also, as
we've seen a negative against them, but I say this
for basically every team, like lineups change even early in
games just because like the bench will come in like
six minutes in and you start getting these rotations. So

(26:50):
like maybe it's like twelve minutes a night eighteen nine
stars together, but also how many game there are all
these guys gonna be available for at the same time
my forty year and then everything just so it's saying,
you know, yes, they're old, but also like there's a

(27:12):
lot of injury questions with guys. James's worklow was big
last year, how does that affect him this year? Bradley Beal.
I don't think he's played sixty games in a very
long time. John Collins misses time. Granted, last year, missing
time on the Utah Jazz was actually a vacation for him,
so that's good. Kawhi Leonard missed the first half of

(27:34):
the year, but obviously this is the first offseason he's
been healthy in a long time. And I remember talking
to him after Game seven when they lost in Denver.
I explicitly asked him, you know, you came into the
year when you first started, you know, in January, that
your goal was to get to the off season healthy.
How do you feel? And he said, you know, result aside,
they accomplished their goal. He feels great and he's ready.

(27:57):
And this offseason, to be perfectly blunt with you, this
was the must I've ever seen Kawhi Leonard publicized the
off season ever. This man is out on like world trips,
doing basketball camps. I've never seen this before. It's like
a new guy. What the hell happened? He gets into
what off season healthy and he just becomes Jacques Coustau

(28:18):
traveling the world.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yeah, I mean that's huge too. And it's also you
mentioned this earlier. They're now able, and it felt like
they went this his usage wasn't severely impacted, but they
felt like they went about this last year of trying
to streamline his offensive role at points, and now they're
really built to do that because this is someone who, yeah,
you want to put the ball in his hands, you
want him to get to his spots, but just like
the burden that should be on him from a night

(28:42):
to night basis when he's available, I don't when's the
last time it was this low like when the Spurs
won the title with him. I'm just I'm honestly trying
to think that's that's hyperbole, but it just that I.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah, that Spurs
title might be the last time that it was this
lobe because possibly even the year after where they lost
to the Clippers in the first round, that might be
the last time it was really like this level because
they still had Duncan, and even though Duncan wasn't Tim

(29:14):
Duncan at that time, it was still like the ball
went to him, the ball went to Tony, the ball
went to Manu or Maman who wasn't there, but it
went to like Danny Green all these guys, so like,
but yeah, it's you're talking about a decade ago.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, that's forever ago, and it's it's probably I mean,
it's just important because he's getting older and given his
injury history. But in a lot of his core lineups,
even if he's not the primary point of attack guy,
it does feel like his lyft on defense is still
gonna be freaking heavy as hell. If you're gonna play
with James Harden, Bradley Beal and John Collins a bunch
at once, and so making sure he doesn't have to
shoulder too much responsibility at least, you know, creating for

(29:50):
himself whatever, but give the guy extra space top rate,
so he's not working as hard to get his shots.
And then also at this point, it's like I don't
really want his play making burden to have to be
as heavy either.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
I kind of feel like that was the trade off
is we'll get you these offensive guys around you, but
you need to go back to being yourself defensively. It's
like you need to take the top stuff and then
you know, you have all these pieces around you on
offense to kind of mitigate your burden there, but we
need you on defense and he's still he's not the
defender he used to be, but man, when he turns

(30:21):
it on defensively, yeah, it's incredible. I mean as we
as you know, like you've been in the arena for
like a lot of great performances, like like when someone
gets it going on offense, you're like, oh my god,
Like no one's like I've seen. I saw Lebron go
for fifty against the Clippers and he was he drilled
like a career high in threes. I just remember just

(30:41):
sitting there going there's nothing you could do could stop
that guy. But I've seen Kawhi on defense when he
turns it on and it is It reminds me of
I'm a Steelers fan, and I might be dating myself here. Now.
I wasn't alive in the seventies, but I saw a
lot of footage of Steelers nineteen seventies steel curtain defense
because my dad was a Steelers fan and that's how

(31:02):
it became one. It reminds me a lot of like
Mel Blunt on the perimeter, like Guardian receivers, where yeah,
he's physical and he gets away with a lot of
stuff because it's Mel Blunt. It's Kawhi like you you're
gonna let them get a little bit handsier, but man,
they can just totally shut down an entire like side
of the full floor or the field. And that's what

(31:25):
it reminds me of, like this dominant defensive guy that no,
he can't turn it on thirty five minutes a night
for eighty two games, but when you you can get
one night every like week or so where you're just
like Jesus Christ, like like, how does anyone score against
this guy?

Speaker 2 (31:42):
It's those vintage Kawhi like highlight Like remember they do
that with Lebron all the time. It's like vintage leb
any time he does like a chase down block or
so they we'll get it, but we get more of
those those social media posts this year. It does feel like.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
It's like when he rips, when Kawhi rips a guy
mid dribble and you're just like, you're just I remember
there was a time this year somewhat dribbled against them,
and he just like quite literally in the crossover, stuck
his hand out and the ball stuck to his hand
and he went the other way, and I just remember going, what,
what the hell just happened, Like you just don't see that,

(32:15):
No you don't.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I mean the size of his hands, for one, but
just like the way he uses them, like being just
so quick and on point with everything. I don't, Man,
we all know he's like one of the bigger what ifs,
even though he's accomplished so much. But there's a lot
just talked about, like how many titles would he win
or like would he have been League MVP at any points?
Like he's gonna go down as one of the greatest
defenders ever anyway, but what if he just never deals

(32:36):
with this knee stuff? Mostly like what do we just
remember him as defensively because it doesn't even seem like
he has that same like miss like that lord that
that that mystique is like a Draymond Green. The way
we talk about Draymond Green is generational defender, and it
feels like Kawhi would not be on that level. He
would be higher than that.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah, and it seems like some of that's eroded just
because of the injuries. Yeah. And then and then, like
I said, you gonna blip every now and then we're like, oh,
it's still there. It just it just needs to be
coaxed out. And maybe that's what they're doing, is they're
trying to limit the burden offensively, to coax it out
of them to where he doesn't have to do as
much on one end, so you just need him to

(33:16):
pick it up on the other to protect the other guys.
And I I think he I think he could do that.
I think that. You know, yeah, he's still gonna average
like twenty two points a game, but you might get
twenty two points on great efficiency where he's not shooting
as much and defensively he's not where he used to be,

(33:37):
but he's pretty close.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
If he plays in sixty five games. There you go.
How many back to backs did they have? I know
Joel beeB was basically eliminated from awards contentions on that.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
I mean, Clippers have fifteen.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
I think so that yeah, all right, curtains done.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, it'd be sixty seven. But like he's still gonna
they're probably he's still probably gonna miss a game here
and there. Now, granted, he did play one of the
last back the backs last year, but also that was which,
by the way, created one of the funniest moments of
the year in the locker room because Ty got asked
after that game, I forget who they played. I want
to say, I don't remember who they played. But the

(34:13):
next night they played Houston and Houston wasn't playing anybody
at that time because they had the two seed wrapped up.
And Ty gets asked, is Kawhi playing tomorrow? And Ty
just goes, oh h He goes, I don't know. We'll
have to talk to medical, but that's a decision for tomorrow.
And so we get into the locker room and Kawi
comes out and uh he walks into those locker and

(34:33):
Kawhi last year, I just want to say this absolutely
incredible media wise, one of the best years I've ever
had with Kawhi. He was always available to talk if
if if he asked you, if you needed him, and
you said yes, he would talk. It was great, fantastic stuff. So,
uh we we walked up to him and uh it
was me and two others and uh, we're like, hey,

(34:56):
you know we are you gonna play tomorrow or no.
We didn't even say anything. He walks, he he walks
from the shower to go sit down and he goes,
I'm not talking tonight. I'll get you guys tomorrow and
then three of us just go what does that mean? Like,
are you so what? One of the colleagues walked up
and goes, are you are you playing tomorrow? And he goes,
that's the plan. But I got to meet with medical

(35:18):
in the morning, but that's the plan. And that's how
we found out he was going to play his first
back to back of the year. So that was the
only time all year Kawhi turned us down for media,
but simply because he told us, whoul get us the
next night. So I say all that to say, maybe
he plays in back to backs this year, maybe not.
They changed up his rehab this year. His rehab this
past season was spearheaded by Maggie Bryant, who's their director

(35:40):
of health and wellness. Basically, they took a new approach,
and I remember at media Day this past year. Last year,
he Kawhi talked about how they finally got a handle
on the things that were bothering him. So you know,
there's a potential that maybe he does play back to backs,
maybe he has a healthy year. But a healthy year, Kawhi,

(36:00):
I'd probably pin at like sixty four games, I wouldn't.
I don't think he'll get to sixty five.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Well, if he did, would he be all defense?

Speaker 1 (36:09):
He could be. I think he's one of those guys
who has the gravitas where if they make the cut
in terms of games, he'll probably get in because if
their team defense is good enough.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
To I'm very this was his This is no natural
segue here. Chris Paul's prerogative was to go to the Clippers.
I don't have a problem with him scaling down or
what he like that he's gonna have disillusions about his role.
But what is his role on this team? Is it
gonna be more situational or do you think that he's
gonna be penciled in for like a certain amount of
minutes regardless?

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Do I gonna tell you what they told us? Yeah,
the the go to line was there's gonna be some
Knights where he plays a lot, and there's gonna be
some nights where he doesn't play. That was the thing.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
But if you're asking me what I think is rolling
Chris Paul on some Knights is a huge adjustment for career.
He just played in all eighty two games last year.
That's insane.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, I think he's the backup point guard. He's just
a backup point guard, and also now the Bogdanovich injury
for however long he's out for, that creates another spot
that they kind of have to fill minutes for. So
I just think Chris is gonna play most of the
games if he's available, unless they get into a situation
where it's like end of the season, they're competing for

(37:17):
a like a certain seed or a playoff spot, and
it's like we need to trim the rotation to like
eight guys just to get in and maybe he doesn't
play them, but I'm pretty sure he's gonna play quite
not quite a bit, but he's gonna play most of
the games. Like I don't wanna it sounds weird to
say it's Chris Paul. You're just not gonna not play
Chris Paul, right.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I can't imagine the idea of him load managing, just
to like throw that out there, but like taking I
just can't. It's just so on Chris Paul esque, Like
I just I can't imagine that going over well with him.
But I guess he's in a phase of his Like
I said, he's the one who really wanted to go
to the Clippers as well, so or at least in
Los Angeles be close to his family. So I doubt
he has any allusions as to what his role would be.
But that that's like it's a cliche, but that's a gamer.

(38:00):
That's someone who just wants to play all the time.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
He loves. He wouldn't even talk retirement at his press
conference that he did. He just would He wouldn't entertain.
He didn't want to. He didn't want to talk about it.
But he gave great answers. He was great. And also
he loves being back in LA. And I'm sure he's
already sick of seeing me. I've seen him at three
different places in like the span of like ten days.
I saw him. I saw him when he did his

(38:23):
press conference. I saw him at a Sparks game in
an elevator. I was in the elevator and he walked
in and we said hi to each other. And then
I saw him at the angel City match that I covered,
like three days later. He was there for his daughter's birthday.
And I'm just like, I'm seeing this guy's quit essential LA.
Of course, Chris Paul's back here. It's great. Uh.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
I do find it funny that they keep pairing James
Harden with guards that he played with in Houston.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
I guess john Wall already did his Clippers ten years,
so we don't have to worry about that. That one's
gonna you can't be checked off the box. But how
do you see Harden needing to some of it will
be welcomed because of the role that he needed to
assume last year. Like how does Harden he do adjust
to having all these like different offensive weapons on the team.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Now did John Wall have the Clippers tad here? Did
he did?

Speaker 2 (39:06):
He really counts like sort of right?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
He was there, like, you know, nothing against john Wall.
It was a nice guy, but yeah, that didn't go
well for the Clippers. As far as the guards that
he that James knows like, it's almost like a devil
you know, versus the one you don't. And James and
Chris I think are so competitive they'll figure it out.

(39:31):
I know they had whatever happened in Houston, but everything
since then has seemed amicable. For whenever they it gets
brought up, there's like there's no there's no drama there.
But for James, it's just I feel like for years
they've tried to get James to tone down his workload.
Not the Clippers, but just everywhere. It's like, oh, you

(39:51):
go to Brooklyn, you're gonna handle the ball, but you're
not gonna have to score as much. That's why we
have Kyrie and KD. Then it's like, well, that goes
belly up. And then so he goes to Philly. Well,
now you're with Joel embiid MVP candidate. You're not gonna
have to do as much scoring. You just have to
facilitate the ball. That goes belly up. And so it's
like here you are with the Clippers, it's like, well
you got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. You don't have

(40:12):
to do as much and that goes belly up and
it's like what the hell are we doing? So in theory,
James Harden doesn't have to do as much this year.
In reality, he's probably gonna do just as much as
he did last year. Because that's James Harden, and I
think his fit with everyone they've got, I will say this,
they've gotten guys around him who I think fit pretty

(40:33):
well for him. Where I'm not gonna say they went
the Houston route of like here's five out or not
five out but like four out space eve and then
you're rolling big but they're pretty close. Like this is
the type of offensive ecosystem James is thrived in for
a decade. So I think it'll be fine for him. Now,

(40:59):
will his you usage decrease? It has to, you'll kill
the guy. He's like thirty six now, Like I no
one has worked this hard this long at this usage
rate consistently, and I'm.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Playing the amount of minutes he does for sure.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Yeah, I don't think people I'm glad you mentioned that.
I don't think people realize how much he plays. If
he's even fifty percent healthy, he's playing and he's playing
like thirty eight forty minutes a night, and it's like,
no wonder he burns out like he's a gamer. Like
you talk about Chris Paul being a gamer. That's probably

(41:38):
why they didn't get along towards the end of the
Houston tenure. They're too much alike, you know. I mean,
it just is what it is. So I think for James,
they need to tone down his workload a little bit,
or at least the stress of the workload. I think
it's I think, like, if this usage rate is the same.
It's not the end of the world, but it's like
the stress of that usage rate where if he's having
to create, you know, as the shot clock dwindles down

(42:03):
time and time again, that's draining. But if he's able
to just kind of get easier shots and create more
one on one style settings for other players, it won't
be as stressful for him, whereas where like this past year,
he was facing a loaded box like quite often that's
that's a killer.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
What's interesting about him is that lightened workload for him
in something different where it's like more space for him
to operate on the ball to make that aspect of
his job easier, because you don't as much as we've seen,
like some of the off ball stuff, like the percentages
in terms of frequency, they will fluctuate. I still just
never view him as like someone who's going to be
this like incredible weapon away from the ball, and so

(42:44):
lightening his workload does feel more about like, well, giving
him more space to operate to make his shots easier
to table set for everyone else, which is it's a
form of diminishing your workload. But at the same time
it's also not.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, like his his workspace it's like his workload is
the same, but his workspace is slightly skewed, especially like
like you know, like you just took things away that
just gave him a little bit more rube. So yeah,
I mean their whole thing is like, let's not kill
the old guys, like seriously, And what's a way to

(43:18):
keep James a little bit fresher when he drives to
the rim. Maybe there won't be three people every time.
It's one way. I I'm very interested because we can
sit here and talk about the amount of talent on
this team, and like, let's be realistic, there's a lot
of talent on this team, like from compared to last year.
It's pretty crazy the talent uptick they've had in just
twelve months. But there are a lot of questions and

(43:41):
I think people will be kidding themselves that they don't
think there are.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
When you look at We've talked a little bit about
the front court rotation around Zoo, but what does it
kind of say about what they're gonna default to on
the front line now that you have the three big
approach of Lopez, zu Bots and John Collins, is there
gonna be I know, defensively, you don't want to see
him here too much. Like quiet the four is kind
of like a cheat code on offense, Like is that
still going to be a staple or we just need
to get Like they only have three bigs, but it's

(44:07):
how many I guess one big setups are we going
to see from the Clippers this season.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
I think we'll see quite a bit because that's ty
loves spaced out floors offensively, and they love Kawhi at
the four offensively. You mentioned it. I've I've taken flag
for this over the last couple of years. Their best
basketball is with Kui at the four. It just is,
and at least on offense. On defense, there are some issues,
but I don't think the issue is Kui related. But

(44:34):
they're gonna get one big looks because they have to,
because you have to in a lineup with like Brook Lopez,
you're gonna need him to have the space to both
roll and pop. And then with Zoo, you're gonna have
to get him rolling into the rim or in the
short roll with other people and all this stuff. So
in the sense of like trying to mesh everyone, they're

(44:55):
gonna have to toy around with one big lineups and
I'm kind of interested to see the ones that they
pull because Lopez, more than any other big that they've
had in recent history, is the most malleable guy as
like a center, so he can play with anybody, and
I'm generally interested to see how they make that work.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
When you look at the offense overall, last year, it
did tick up Kawhi playing more basketball health Bogdanovitch was
actually pretty good for them. I don't think that people
realize that as much. How much does his injury if
he's going to miss extensive times, if it actually is
a hamstring tear, does that have any Like they have
a ton of offensive talent on this team, but when
you're looking at there's no Norman Powell, some a guy

(45:34):
that could just work almost exclusively off ball or fire
these quick trigger threes. They don't necessarily have that guy
right now. And so does this impact them in any
way if they don't have him available.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
I think it does. I think because as you mentioned,
like the three point aspect, where he's able just to
get the ball and go like he's a quick decision maker,
he's a second side ball handler. He's able to operate
in some pick and roll settings. We've seen this with
Serbia time and time again. It's just it's not a
good injury to have for a guy who has dealt

(46:07):
with lower body injuriesies. Yeah, especially lower body injuries. Yeah,
and you know that could that can mess with you.
So and also I don't think people realize like he's
played a lot of basketball, like because you have to
go back to the international stuff for him to where
he didn't come over till he was like twenty seven.
I think, so he'd played a lot of basketball even
before the NBA. Sou which, by the way, was my

(46:29):
favorite thing for people to figure out, is that Bogdan
Bogdanovic was not like some twenty eight year old player
because he didn't come up till he was like people.
I think people thought because he wasn't in the NBA
that long and then they saw his agent, they're like, oh,
he's actually he's been around for a while. But yeah,
I I mean, you look at last year for Bogie
and he ended up shooting uh forty three percent from

(46:51):
three with with the Clippers, but it was like thirty
six percent overall. I remember the press conference when they
got him. I asked Lawrence Frank because Bogie with Atlanta
last year had underperformed his shot qualities, the second most
in the NBA. So like that's why it was a

(47:14):
fascinating trade is because they kind of bought into small
sample size. He shot poorly, maybe there's other things at
play and we can kind of like when he when
he figures it out, we are the beneficiary. And that's
what ended up happening, not having him as a big deal
because now you're talking about they got rid of Norman Powell,

(47:35):
they don't have a mere coffee's three point shooting, and
they don't have Bogie at least for the probably the
beginning of the season, if not more, I don't, we
don't know yet. That's three big time three point shooters.
And now that falls onto yes, you got Bradley Beal,
and yes, Bradley was a great spot up shooter, but
he didn't do a lot of it. And now you

(47:57):
need to kind of offset the Bogie loss by having
brad do more. And it creates a weird thing, which
I know, Bogie's not gonna play a lot next year,
Like he'll probably play I would say, like eighteen minutes
a night probably, but those are still eighteen minutes of
a league if not league average player who's good on
offense that you could count on, who's well.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Actually you mentioned this before us I want to ask
you about it. Where they said John Collins is going
to be their transition offense, and I know their transition
frequency kind of did downtick towards the end of last year,
but like, is that really like does is this team
gonna have that gears it's some of the second units
that can drive a lot of the full floor stuff
still or is that element going to fade from that part?

(48:40):
And by the way, like a lot of the time
you're operating in transition, it might it says a lot
about your lack of faith maybe and what you can
do inside the half court. And they're not gonna have
any shortage of half court creators, but just from like
a varying your cadence perspective, I'm kind of wondering if
the Clippers are going to have the ability to shift
those dials.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Their idea of transition offense. And this is what it is,
hit ahead passes from James and Chris. That's quite literally
what their thought is. It's not someone grabs the ball
and go, it's get the ball to James, hit ahead
to someone, get the ball to Chris, He'll hit ahead
to John, or he'll head ahead Derek or someone like that. Like,

(49:21):
their transition offense is gonna be kind of unconventional in
some aspects, but yeah, like it's not gonna be a
fun transition offense. It's not gonna be one where you're like, oh,
if we stop the Clippers on transition offense, like we
have a great chance. It's no. The Clippers game plans.
They're gonna grind you out in a half court setting,
and that's that's it. Their transition is gonna be semi transition.

(49:45):
That's what we'll call it for them.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
They'll be yeah, semi transition.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Yeah, Like like sure, there might be moments where Kawhi
gets the ball on a rebound or whatever, and that's
a transition layup or dunk or something, But most of
the time it's gonna be ball finds James, ball hit
gets hitd ahead to John or Derek and it's a dunk.
That's literally. They're gonna be their entire transition sequence except

(50:10):
for one aspect. I will say when I did my
deep dive on Bradley bial one thing. I came away
very impressed with him. With Bradley Beal was an elite
transition player last year, especially spotting up for threes. Brad
runs the floor in a way that I think is
conducive for the Clippers offensively in transition, where he will

(50:30):
actually hard sprint to corners and will act as a
trailer above the break that I think is an area
where we probably think of transitioning the way of like, oh,
so and so gets the ball, runs up the floor,
dunk over and over like that's or rips someone in that.
But the transition spacing with Brad is gonna be a

(50:52):
lot better, especially with like his penchant for aggressively running.
Is he gonna get the ball in transition as much?
Maybe not, but he's still gonna do a job or
it frees up other people.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, I mean I make the semi transition joke before,
but like, anytime you can go against a tilted defense
is just it's going to help you, even if it
ends up being a half core possession, if it was
set up because Bradley Beal is running his ass off
down the floor and it stretches out the defense or
causes a cross match or something that ends up being
probably a pretty big boon for the offense. So I
am just kind of it just because you look at

(51:25):
Bradley Beal, even if he has the ball, James Harden,
Chris Paul Kawhi Leonard, like, those are guys that want
to grind you down for the most part, and I
think that they have the talent to do that. I'm
just curious if there's gonna be Like I think part
of what made the Clippers so enjoyable for me last year,
aside from just being so wrong about them, is there
was this like unpredictability to the way they could play

(51:45):
at some points, and then there also wasn't because like
you're featuring James Harden so heavily, and I'm curious to see,
like not so much with their core starting five or whatever.
I'm just curiously what some of the secondary lineups might
look like offensively for them.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, it's gonna be fascinating. Like like last year, I
think going in even though the talent level wasn't to
this degree as it is this year, I think we
kind of have like an idea of how they were
gonna play, like it was gonna be. These were the
three things they needed to do. They needed to play defense,
they need to play hard, and they needed to try
to score as easy as they could when they didn't
when they weren't in the half court. And this year

(52:19):
it's almost like offense in the half court shouldn't be
a problem, but now they need to like uptick in
other areas and it's good. I'm fascinated by them. I
think they're one of the more interesting teams in the league,
just from that point of view, Like there's obviously all
all the teams are interesting in their own right. It's
just right from a Clipper centric point of view, it's
like we kind of think we know what the Clippers

(52:41):
are gonna be, but they they could zig or other zag.
I don't know well.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
And also it's just like a team last year that
by and large was smaller just compared to a lot of
other teams, that they're just first in defensive rebounding rate,
and then they got bigger. It's just that's insane.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
It's funny. It's funy. It is funny to think they
were first in defensive rebounding rate and couldn't rebound in
the postseason, right, which they talked about too. They actually
did talk about they they they.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Were very match into John Collins. I know, the whole
you're getting Bradley Beale ship out, Norman Powell, he's the
extension eligible, gonna be a free agent, that whole thing.
But they also had to be part of the reason
to like, Okay, John Collins is someone who can rebound.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Well yeah and put and it pushes Kawhi back to
the three. Yeah, And that was the thing is their
whole their whole mindset is when Kawhi Leonard is on
the floor, we're a very good basketball team. And they're
not wrong. They rebound better, they defend better, they score better.
Everything about them is better. But I do think they

(53:39):
thought they needed John to move Kawhi to the three
to get more size for better rebounding, not even just
for John himself, but for Kawhi to rebound against smaller threes.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Yeah, And I mean that makes sense, and they're also
kind of what they did, just not as it feels
like they're not reliant on any one player where it's
I think anyone could miss time and you feel for
maybe Zubats is the one that you would still feel
finicky about.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
But even then, it's like a.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Slide in and give you a base like defensive guy.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
So yeah, it's weird, right, that's the like think of
think of how weird that is, because I don't think
it's been like that for the Clippers in my time
covering them. Is like when Blake Griffin went down, it
wasn't like, Okay, this guy can stet. It's like, oh shit,
Blake Griffin's down. Oh Chris Paul's down. Well, now we're
kind of screwed. I will say, if James goes down,
they're probably that's the one guy where I like, if

(54:33):
you lose James, that could get a little bit dicey.
But I mean even losing Kawhi is not the end
of the world. We saw that last year.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
If they just did it, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, and you know, I mean it's I don't you know,
if there is a pressure point, I will say this,
if there is a pressure point, and I cannot believe
the sentence is about to come out of my mouth.
What happens if Bradley Beal misses forty games Because your

(55:02):
backup is your backup's Bogdanovich, which even if he's healthy, yes,
he's a replacement level shooting guard starting caliber type guy,
but like there's a trickle down effect at the guard
spot after that, to where do you start Chris and
James together? Do you like, Like, I know that sounds crazy,

(55:23):
but like you might just have to like, I.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Don't know, Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
It would because obviously Chris Dunn, Chris Dunn is like
the guy that I was.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Gonna ask, like, do you just go to Chris Dunn
in that instance?

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Then you you probably do, but like it kind of
still if you're trying to go more offense to like
keep the spacing around your main guys, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Who do you think? That's what I've also given a
lough about us. Who do you think? And this, you know,
this kind of circles back to what you were saying
about in the beginning about what their offense can look
like in the playoffs, Like based on last year's team,
who he gets impacted more by the new look of
this roster in terms of their role, Derek Jones Junior
or Chris Dunn. My gut, my gut reaction was Chris Dunne,

(56:10):
just because it feels like they have so much guard depth.
But he also does something that literally knows their other
guards do.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah. Man, he's so good defensively too. Yeah, I can
tell you they were internally pissed that he was not
eligible for all defense. Some of it was their own
doing because no one still understands the rules about sixty
five games, like what is and what is not a game,
that it's still a thing, which quick sidebar. I talked

(56:41):
to people at the team who had I had posted
that I think they need to change the requirement for
awards from sixty five games of like twenty plus minutes
to just like a straight like you play thirteen hundred
minutes and you're eligible for whatever award that you're eligible for.
I have someone with the team tell me that that
is something they would like to he changed, because not

(57:01):
even just for like their guys, but they think a
lot of players around the league are kind of getting
screwed by this. And yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
There's gonna be a year. I don't know that we've
seen it yet, but like where some of the award
that awards battles are gonna just look insanely bad in
retrospective because of the way it's set up. And I
still don't I know, people say the players didn't get
hard in the CBA. But I'm just still wondering why
they didn't push back harder against a lot of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
The sixty five game thing didn't make sense, like the
raw minutes should have been what it is because like hypothetically,
like hypothetically, if a player plays sixty minutes or sixty
games of like thirty two minutes a night, is that
guy not more valuable to a team that then.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
Like I want to see players play, Like I understand
people's thing, like we wanted to have these players up
in all these games, Like what matters more playing in
seventy five games at seventeen minutes a clip, We're playing
in sixty games at thirty four minutes a clip, Like
that's a pretty clear like, especially when it comes to
cause it gets all all sorts of just wonky when
you get to the all defense ballots, specifically like a

(58:04):
lot of the other awards and even most Improved Player
maybe six Man of the Year, like a lot of
that stuff is it's not as cut and dry, like
some of the awards are cut and dry, the all
defense stuff and like six Man of the Year, most
roop player or not. And so that's why I'm not
in one of them. Do you need the what's the
one that you don't need?

Speaker 1 (58:19):
The rookie doesn't rookie doesn't need it, And I think
there's another one.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Six Man of the Year at least doesn't have the
Maybe it's not the sixty five one because most improved
Player definitely has it. I think it might be the sixth.
Maybe it doesn't have like that minutes threshold where it's
like you needed to clear a certain amount of minutes.
Maybe in a number of performances. See how long have
we covered the league and we fancy ourselves sickos and
here we are, we're still not fully grasping it.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I mean, you look back at the you mentioned All
Defensive Team. Chris Dunn should have made All Defense, but
he just wasn't eligible. You know who else was't eligible?
Alex Caruso not eligible?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Like yet all these players would have made it, Like
if those awards weren't about really wasn't in place.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Loukenz Door wouldn't even have made first team, like I
think he made first team. He wouldn't have made first team,
like even like there was like three guys on his
team that were better defenders. And it's just but that's
the nature of the oars is these guys get slipped
through the crack because of this, and like Chris down
was one of them. But to answer your original question,

(59:21):
the guy's role whom I changed the most, it might
be Derek just because there's more forwards on the roster now, okay,
I but also like Derek is such a good defender too,
and he's such he gives them something. I mean, John
kind of provides it with like his above the rim
cutting and athleticism and all this stuff, but Derek's such

(59:44):
a different athlete that I.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Stick a dynamite.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Yeah, yeah, he and he and James had incredible chemistry.
And also the one thing I want to point about
Derek one of the very best screen navigators I've ever seen.
Chris Dunn's great at it. I think Derek Jones might
actually be better, which is a disgusting thought when you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
When you like think back even to how Dallas used
him before he came over to the Clipper specifically, like
he's always been really good at like handling a lot
of the smaller assignments too, which in part has to
be because of his green navigation.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
And so I think it like his size is a
hindrance against like bigger players, but yet I think that's
the reason he's so good at screen navigation, because he's
not a bulky guy. He's like this wiry like dude
who slithers around screens by just getting his shoulder through

(01:00:38):
the gap and just like melting through. And it just
something I'm If you go back and watch some footage
from last year, it's some of the most bewildering stuff
you'll see about how like he'll get screened and he's
just the next frame, it's like Derek Jones back in
front of this guy and you're like, what the hell
even happened?

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Kind of hoping michal Bridges might have worked out with
him a little bit this summer.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
And look, that's a whole other thing for michale. You know,
Like I will say, mckal bridges, he really is an
iron man. I will give him that, Michel Bridges, that dude.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
Every game, But are you the type of person I'm
an alarmist And I've said this now a bunch of
times where it might be like a character flow, but like,
because McHale Bridges has just played all these games, I
just assume that he's due for like some type of
like catastrophe, where I don't look at it as that
being like being iron Man is cool and it's an
accomplishment for him. But I'm I'm waiting for the first

(01:01:32):
shoe to drop. Now, I'm like a person's always waiting
for the other shoe to drop, and if it had,
if one hasn't dropped, I'm like, well, it's gonna come sometime.
And that's how I view this, And that's probably a
little sick, but that that's how I feel about it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
It's because we're cynical by nature, right, Like you're just like, oh,
it has it has to happen. But I don't know.
Maybe it's just ac Green where he just plays twenty
years at a pretty good level of minutes and you're
just like, oh, he just like Andre Miller made an
entire career playing a bunch of minutes without ever getting hurt. Now,
granted Andre Miller never jumped off the floor once in

(01:02:04):
his life, but you know, it helps them not get injured.
But I don't know, Maybe Michael Bridge is just an anomaly.
They're probably gonna study him thirty years from now and
find out that he had some like weird mixture of
like mus muscle tissue that like connected and it was
like the old Nolan Ryan thing, Remember that thing with
like Nolan Ryan. Wasn't it like his elbow was like

(01:02:25):
different or something, or is that justin someone's elbow? It
was like Justin Verlander or Nolan Ryan or something like
their elbow had like this weird like ligament that was
it wasn't in like the natural formation, so it helped
with like elbow trauma or something. It was. It was
very strange. I think it was. I think might have
been Justin Verlander. And then he ended up tearing it.
And now he's forty five and still pitching at a
high level because nothing makes sense anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
The less proven people on this roster that probably are
not gonna have a ton of roles. Do you have
any impressions of, like, let's start with Niederhouse or the
rookie that's coming in. Any early impressions of him after
Summer League?

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Very raw, But I see it I now. Granted, I
do think they were my personal belief, there were players
on the board that they probably should have picked over him,
But I understand why they picked him. He was the
best athletic center in the Combine history that they had.
Like it's kind of wild when you think about the
centers you've gone through it, but like when you adjust

(01:03:21):
for like size and frame and all this stuff, he
was the most athletic one who tested out. And you
watch him play and you see how raw he is,
but you see that you see the upside. He didn't
start playing basketball, I want to say, till he was
like fifteen, and he has a very fascinating background where
he took judo as a kid and he used to
take he used to take a train uh from Switzerland,

(01:03:47):
like wherever he lived in Switzerland. I believe it was
to like basketball camps, and that's how we started playing basketball.
He suffered a really traumatic knee injury. When you want
to believe he was like seventeen or fifteen, they got
about fifteen. He suffered a traumatic knee and maybe it
was seventeen. It was one of those ages, it doesn't
really matter. Suffered a traumatic knee injury and he was
actually bedridden for like eight months, and that's when he
actually went underwent his height, Like he got a growth

(01:04:11):
spurt of like eight inches over like two years, and
so he dealt with this. He was originally a guard,
and so when you watch him, there was plays in
the Summer League he would get the ball like off
the board or a steel or a block or whatever,
and he would push. In transition he'd go behind his back. Now,
the finishing left a little bit to be desired, but

(01:04:32):
also he's just moving very fast at his size. And
you know, I tend to not evaluate people in summer
leagues that seriously, but he his handle was a lot
better than I think people thought for a center, so
that guard aspect came. But he's he's really good, I
think in terms of potential. Not a really good player

(01:04:52):
right now, but they think he can grow down the line.
And all I'll say is if they got a rotation
level center with the thirtieth pick, I don't think people
should gripe about that. I think that's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
One two things stuck out to me when he was
doing Summer League was I think that he could end
up being like a really big, like defensive playmaker like
the aggression Kim Wax and Reign right now. But I
think that he's gonna be super disruptive if he ever
reaches his final form. The other thing that stood out
is I guess it speaks ton't know the point guard
background about him, but it was the game against the
Lakers where he like picks that pass and then uses

(01:05:25):
two dribbles to go more than three quarters of the
court and finished. So it's just like, oh God. And
my final my final thing was they've literally surrounded him
with or maybe not literally but virtually surrounded with every
type of big man that he can kind of call to,
Like just think about how different John Collins and Zubots
and Brook Lopez just are on the grand scheme of things.
And I'm like, we romanticize everything after Summer League, where

(01:05:47):
it's I we throw we go up vibes like fuck efficiency,
who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
But he's in a pretty good situation, like to just
be around these guys, if he's even just practicing with them,
like that's I wouldn't under estimate that. And so I'm
again every all the caveats have light here, but I'm
I'm I'm intrigued by him, and he doesn't look the
way he moves kind of at both ends of the floor,
but even more so defensively and he's certainly not someone
I would think to travel the full length of the floor.

(01:06:14):
He doesn't move the way that he looks.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
Yeah, he doesn't move like seven one or whatever he is.
It's it's remarkable, really like it's And I do wonder
how much of that is like the maybe I'm reading
too much. I wonder how much of that could be
a judo background, like where you studied something else to
help you with movement. So I wonder if that like
helped your body structure in terms of fluidity and muscle

(01:06:38):
dexterity and all these things. He he fascinates me because
you see why he's so tantalizing, and it comes in
like spurts. And I remember when they talked about him
on Draft night at the arena. It got scoffed at
and like laughed at online. But Trent Redden says the

(01:07:02):
Clippers GM. Trent Redden says, if you or no, it
was Lawrence Frank. You said, if you squint in about
two to three years from now, you can see him
becoming a person who starts shooting threes, and like he
never shot threes in college, but they like the way
his shot looks. But in summer League. He started taking them.

(01:07:23):
He didn't make any, but you saw him take some
and you're like, oh, his shot actually looks okay for
his size. This goes back to your point. If there's
anyone you want to learn from about how to go
from a center who couldn't shoot to a center who
just only shoots threes, Brook Lopez might be the best guy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Any strong feelings about Kobe Brown, Cameron Christi or even
about how do they have fourteen guaranteed contract right now?
So about how they might use their final roster spot
or if they use it at all.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Kobe Brown for the half of Summer League that he played,
he played with the first half of the first game
of Summer League. He looked great, He looked exactly how
he should and then he got shut down with an injury.
It's a make or break year for Kobe. He's gonna
get minutes, maybe not a lot of mints, but they're
gonna have to play him at times. It's a make
or break year for his for his career at this point. Cam,

(01:08:17):
How's another year where I would say of like development,
But they really like Cam. They like his shot form,
they like his aggression at times. Cam thing is gonna
come down to defense and whether or not he can
make threes, but they like him as a development prospect.
Outside of that, there's really not much. I mean, I
don't want it. That sounds me to say, there's not
really not much else to say, but that's just where
they're at.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Are you ready to enter the Cookie Cutters last Lightning
round portion to close this podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Oh, I just want to say one more thing. I'm
sorry you asked me about their final roster spot. They
can't sign anyone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
They're literally right because they're so close to the Yeah, yeah, yeah,
they're hard capped at the first apron, and I don't
want to.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I guess I could pull it. I have a I'm
a nerd. You know that I have a spreadsheet.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Of no don't. I'm also staring at their salary cap
situation right now too, to where it says that they're like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Seven thousand tacks uh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
From the apron, and their point they sign an undrafted
is that it's not even enough for an.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Hundred, like a zero. It's not rookies, it's not They're
gonna wait for like the pro rated uh pro rated
buyout guy in them in like February you don't.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
They're not gonna want to just because they're inside seven
million of it. This isn't gonna be a team that's like, hey,
how do we lop off like seven and a half
million dollars mid season of duct attacks? Entirely, that's not
where they're at it. I mean, I'm sure things go shitty,
but if they're relatively who they think they are, that's
not something they'll be looking to do. Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
I wouldn't rule it out. They want to, they don't.
They they want to reset the repeater tax. They they
were out of the tax last year. They made moves
it the deadline to get out the tax. I asked
Lawrence Frank on the record if they're gonna try to
get out of the repeater tax, if being in the
luxury tax is something they're gonna do. They said, if
it makes sense, they'll be in the tax, but they
want to reset the repeater tax. I have it on

(01:09:59):
good authority from people I've talked to around the team.
They don't want to be in the tax. If not
this year, definitely not next year. What I will say,
we've talked about him a little bit as important Bogdanovitch
is the guy they.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Would move, and they like at this point, not that
he's immovable, but coming off the injury, and just like
the numbers, not just let send you here. And so
I keep looking at Derek Jones's junior money. It's just
like that someone will slide into someone's exception pretty easily,
I know, and maybe it would be Chris Dunn, but

(01:10:33):
he doesn't make enough to fully get them out of
there either. So I'm just do they have the sweeteners
to include with them. I'm not saying they need to
include a first round pick they get off like bogdanas
is some what it's saying. It just seems like that
number is. It's not close to but if he's coming
off his hamstring injury, it makes a lot more challenging
to move him.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
So Bogdanovic has two I shouldn't say Bogdanah. The Clippers
have two things working in their favorite with Bogdanovic. If
they do trade him, they can do a two for
one where they get two guys back to fill up
some of the void. So like that will give them
fifteen guys on their roster at that point. The other
part of it is he has a team option for
twenty six, twenty seven. So if there is a team

(01:11:14):
who looks at him and goes, if we trade for Bogdana,
there's the upside is either we don't pick up the
team option and we get that cap space, or at
least we get that salary off the books, or we
pick up the team option and we could flip them
for someone else and like some type of deal. So
I do think there is some like wiggle room to
where they have like they could convince a team to

(01:11:35):
I'm just gonna say a team. There's not been I
just want to say there's not been a discussion. This
is not a thing. I'm just hypothetically saying Brooklyn still
has cap space. So if you went to Brooklyn where
not now, but like you get to like February deadline,
and we're just like Bogdanovich for whatever works salary wise
to get the Clippers under the luxury tax while getting

(01:11:56):
Brooklyn to kind of eat the rest of that as
cap space, maybe there's a thing that you can work on.
But yeah, it's gonna be something. I think he's the
one movable guy. But to your point about Derek, he
could possibly be movable. Chris could be movable. Now, granted,
as you said, Chris won't get them under the luxury tax,
but I don't know. I think they have machinations. But
also they might just see it through on the luxury

(01:12:17):
tax and then going to next off season, like, hey, guys,
you already take some pay cuts to get under the
luxury tax because we could add someone if you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Do, like you let you on Collins Walk and it
just makes it a lot more palatable.

Speaker 1 (01:12:31):
Yeah, or actually him, you know, and add talents because
they're space. And then you keep going once once more

(01:12:51):
into the breach until you get to twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Now, are you ready to enter the lightning round clothes?

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
Yes? Sorry about that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
No, No, I'm all for tangents. I just don't to
keep you here. I'm already keeping it here too long.
So we've talked about some of it. But when you
look at the roster, what do you view as its
single biggest weakness right now?

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
That's a great question.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
I mean it would be cop out and say youth,
but would say durability?

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Youth, yeah, durability probably, yeah, I and I and I
am a little bit skeptical of their shooting, and I
know that sounds weird. Because they added Bradley Beal. You
obviously still have James Harden, you have Kawhi. Yeah, John
Collins is a good three point shooter, but I gotta
see it. I think for me is the thing is

(01:13:40):
because for me, shooting isn't just oh did they shoot
well from three? They're gonna take a lot of midrraane shots.
They added Yeah, Yeah, they added brad they added Chris Paul.
They love midterrane shots. So I'm kind of worried that,
like they're gonna shoot well as a team, but are
they the right shots.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
I what gives me some hope is again I think
Bradley Beal can do it, and then Chris Paul kind
of did it with San Antonio last year, like his
three point volume was up there with the Spurs. So
but yeah, I think that would be a fair concern.
Is there anything that's like flying under the radar about
this team, whether it's to strength, the storyline, whatever, that
isn't receiving enough attention?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Oh hmm, that's a good one. That's that's a tough I.
I would actually say John Collins. I don't think John
Collins got the publicity because I think the Bradley Bual
thing happened so soon after the John Collins thing that
the Bradley Beal became like the spotlight for like, oh,

(01:14:45):
the Clipper's got Bradley Beal, but it kind of went
overlooked it, like how much John Collins probably helps them.
John Collins was really good last year, to the point
that I'll just say it, Utah shut him down because
he was too helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Yeah, I mean that team got fine for tanking or
or they got I think they really got fined for
like Walker Kessler shoot threes. But that's latter here there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
By the way, my greatest subplot of the post trade
deadline was keeping a daily track on a Walker Kessler
just heavied threes. It was like, oh, Walker Kestler took
six threes in the first half today. Yeah, I'm sure
that was the real game plan going in, Like okay,
man like so great though. Uh but John Collins last

(01:15:33):
year four, I know, I said, I do worry about
the shooting, but mostly because of the right shots. John
collinslast year shot forty percent on threes, didn't take a lot,
took under four a game, but still shot forty percent.
He shot thirty seven percent the year before, great around
the rim, good rebounder, great offensive rebounder, just played two
straight years alongside Lorie Marken and Walker Kessler, who when

(01:15:56):
the three of them were on the floor, the Utah
Jazz were actually not bad. They were pretty I'm not
gonna say pretty good. They were good. They were a good,
solid team with the three of them on the floor.
So he knows how to play next to traditional big.
He knows how to play alongside another high usage forward.
I do think it's funny you mentioned the John Collins

(01:16:17):
screen stuff way early, like an hour ago when we
started this as John Collins screen. The fascinating thing for
me with John Collins with the screens in particular was
when I went through a Utah footage of him. They
had a lot of success with him and Walker Kessler
playing double drag together with a ball handler, where Walker
would hard roll, John would pop, And I kind of

(01:16:40):
think that's a way for the Clippers to unlock a
new thing offensively. The Clippers haven't done that as much
with a true shooting four since they had Marcus Morris.
And that's a couple of years ago, back when you know,
it wasn't great at the end of Marcus's Clippers tenure,
but you go back to the twenty one playoffs, Marcus

(01:17:01):
was incredible. And that's the thing I think they're gonna
try to unlock again, is we have this six', nine
three point shooting four who we get him in double
drag With zoo And james and we could and you
Got kawhi parked in the. Corner we could do all
these sorts of things to get easy. Shots SO i
kind of think that's the. Thing john is just very

(01:17:22):
fascinating to. Me AND i Know i've said that word a,
lot but, LIKE i still think we don't know what he.
Is he's he's what eight years into the, league AND
i don't think we still know What John collins. Is.
Like he has these years where he shoots very well from,
three and he finishes around the rim, great and he
does great, roller great rim, threat good, shooter but it's

(01:17:45):
never been all, together especially with. Defense and if The
clippers can get, that and they've had a good track
record of bringing stuff out of guys in recent, Years
i'm genuinely very interested to see the type of season
he could.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
HAVE I i wonder kind of how The hawks is
how much The hawks's trajectory when he was there set
him back because they kept going through these phases where
when you look at the perimeter personnel they surrounded with
then having him play next to like the types of
bigs that he was playing next, to even something like
the non shooters on the. Perimeter it felt like it
constantly warped and marginalized what his offensive role could. Be

(01:18:20):
and it feels like it took him a while to
at least adapt where Maybe utah he found it and
then Also Will hardy was definitely like they run more
creative offensive stuff, there BUT i felt like it took
him a while to adapt to just, like, oh let
me find more of a like like stability from not
being someone who either's won gonna have the ball in
his hands a ton or to be the primary. Screener

(01:18:41):
AND i say all this stuff with like his, shooting
like when you look at cleaning the, glass like he's
always just in the upper echelon of, percentiles with the
exception that final year In utah where it was his
absolute nay. Dear so he's always been like a good,
shooter BUT i don't know that he's always looked super
comfortable in the offensive roles that he's been put into.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
The other one The. Clipper This clipper seems like an
interesting mix of Like John collins archetypal archetypal stops. Too
oh you have this ball dominant point guard who can. Facilitate,
yeah he played with that guy At. Atlanta well he's
all The clippers In James. Harden oh he played next
to a traditional big In utah and also In. Atlanta

(01:19:22):
he's here, too and we had like it's it's like
this weird mix of things where he's seen similar type of,
things but he hasn't played it all together in one.
Spot AND i just, think like he's gonna be twenty,
Eight like if if he's gonna have the best year
of his, career it's gonna be. Now and that might be.

(01:19:43):
It like they're gonna have to figure it, out especially
because he's playing for a new. Contract LIKE i, know
we all you know the contract year thing and, everything
but it's a big. Deal that's ALSO i know he's
going like turning back the clock a little, bit but
like that could be the thing that undoes The. Clipper
how many of these guys are in contract?

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Years oh, YEAH i Mean James ardens forever in a contract.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Year now that man lives in a contract, here it
could be that quite literally could be an. Undoing you
get a lot of guys who if they start out,
slow you might end up getting all, right, well time
to play for myself and my next. Deal not saying
that's gonna, happen but, no.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
BUT i mean it. IS i mean you're looking at
Like Bradley beal probably still and there's also that stigma
whereas Like Bradley, beal, now yes he was bought out
and once you take, less you can never get. Back
Like Brook lopez remember way back when he signed for
the bi annual with the was that The lakers and
then or was it The bucks at the end of
whatever it was and then like he builds up HIS
vye from, There like that arc is so, rare and

(01:20:42):
so Will Bradley beal have that? Mindset like you, Said
James harden is like still kind of fighting a, stereotype
particularly in the, postseason and he's living in a contract.
Year John collins IS i think a lot of people
consider him close to like out, moded just where it's
a peer four, That, yeah The clippers might be built
to let him play the, five but like you don't
really want him playing the, Five so that's we probably

(01:21:03):
don't give enough credence to that. Stuff Especially i'm really
like data, driven Like i'm a pragmatist when it comes
to the on court, Stuff LIKE i love the off
court drama or the. EXTRACURRICULARS i should say that drama
related to the on court, stuff BUT i probably don't
give enough like weight to the, whole like the personalities
or the contract year, stuff or like the voices in
the locker room who talks on defense and stuff like.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
That it's it's funny BECAUSE i, have as you, know
as you, MENTIONED i cover the sparks and in talking with,
people they have a first year head coach And Lynn,
roberts who's this very much Like x's And o's offensive.
Genius but then WHEN i was talking to, people part
of the reason that they were so sold on her

(01:21:44):
wasn't because of anything x as And. O's it was
basically how she could talk to people and get like
a group of human beings and people to buy into
a similar. Ideal so like we tend to always think of, like,
oh Coaching x's And, o's you gotta tell them exactly,
this but like it's also like the massaging of egos

(01:22:05):
and personalities and bringing like you become like a, therapist,
Right like it's it's very fascinating the more you're around
it and the more you, realize like, okay, like, yeah
knowing where to be and pick and roll coverage is very,
important but also how do you convey that to someone
without losing them to where now they feel belittled or

(01:22:27):
less Than so you become almost like the soothsayer to
where you're you're trying to have to manage all these
people and all these individuals to get them to buy
into a. Collective and the one PHRASE i always keep
going back to is basketball. Team like all sports teams
around the, world it's an, ecosystem and if one of
the thing, crumbles it can bring the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Down, YEAH i, mean there's a REASON i made fun
of You donnis has them having a roster spot In
miami for so long Or Derek temple being In, Toronto
but like they do serve a purpose for stuff like. That,
okay just and this team is fully, healthy so that Includes.
Bogdanovich what's the ten man rotation look like in terms
of it doesn't have to be the exact, order but
do we. AGREE i think That's John Collins bradley be

(01:23:09):
on the starting lineup With James, Harden kawhi And.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Zoo, yeah i'd agree with. That, yeah how do we
build it?

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Out who are the? Five like key reserves from?

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
There? Derek oh my, god this is. Okay So derek
And brook for, sure because then they're gonna have to. Play. Uh,
CHRIS i would say is probably. Eight oh actually Which,
Chris Chris paul probably be, Eight chris donn. Nine AND

(01:23:40):
i think it comes down To nico And. Bogie so
last year they Protected nico a lot for. MINUTES i
think we might see something. Similar, NICO i think is
their locker room, guy so he might not have to
play that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
Much and also it's weird BECAUSE i view him is
better THAN i know his stat lines ever to show,
it but LIKE i view him as if he's a
locker room. Guy he's one of those locker room guys
that feels like they could still, play kind of like
A Kenrich williams And oka see who's much younger, obviously but, still.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
Oh nico is so valuable to them on the, Court
like if, you oh, man stats really do not Too,
nico but do any justice whatsoever because you'll just watch
a play there's just like this guy's never in the wrong.
Spot like if there's a defensive breakdown And nico gets
mad at someone or like annoyed at, Someone i'm, like all,
right that is that player really screwed up For nico

(01:24:30):
to get that annoyed or. Whatever so, Yeah nico is
just such to not kill the. PHRASE a consummate professional
just understands what it takes at every. Level and BUT
i think it would come down to him And bogeye
because it's gonna be, like what do you need on
that given. Night do you Need nico size with his floor,

(01:24:50):
spacing rebounding ball, movement shooting HIGH iq or do you
Need bogie for his shooting but as a bigger guard
to where he's able to do that type of. Stuff
Because nico can play the, five that's like their big
thing Is nico's their five in small, ball in small ball,
Lines but how much do you need small? Ball you
Have Brook lopez, Now SO i don't. KNOW i, mean

(01:25:11):
i'd probably say it comes down Between nico And. Bogie
SO i think the first nine are pretty much like.
There but then after that it's probably gonna be, like all,
right what do we need tonight or in this like
what do we need in this lineup right?

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Now this is always to some extent matchup depending but
what winds up being there go to crunch time? Unit
is it just the starting five or do you see
one or two spots that tie Will futzon fill.

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
WITH i think you'll See James Kawhi zoo for, sure
one Of brad And john depending on who they're. Playing,
Actually brad's probably closing. Regardless so the pibby comes down
to Like john and Then Derek john And Derek john

(01:25:58):
And Chris, Dunn john And Chris. Paul if you need
an extra ball, handler.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Like you Think John collins is kind of the spot
that would be more.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Malleable, yeah BECAUSE i think you're GONNA i think they're
gonna Keep brad on the floor in crunch time because
as no disrespect To John, collins It's Bradley, Beal, like
you have this all star, level high level offensive player
and you can just kind of go from. There, now
will they be small if they Take John collins off
the floor for anyone but A Derek jones or A

(01:26:27):
nico or. Someone, yeah BUT i kind of don't think
that's like the killer for. Them it will be interesting
to see if they would they, like would they ever
roll With Brook lopez as a closer Over zoo if
you if if they thought they might need more, spacing,
okay like for shooting aspect, wise But zoo does so
many extra things THAT i just don't think that would
be the. Case.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
YEAH i MEAN i Think, Kawhi harden And zoo would
be the ones locked in. STONE i, think being, diplomatic
it feels Like Bradley beal has to close because if
that becomes a trend where he's not. Closing we talked
about the dynam mix of being in a contract year,
everything like that's something that could also play a role
in undermining the.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Roster, yeah, Exactly like you don't want to can't Kill
Bradley beal's, confidence you, know like you might need, Him
you might need him for a first round.

Speaker 2 (01:27:12):
Series is there a weird o lineup you want to
See ty try this?

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Year? YES i have thought about this so at times last.
Year he actually AND i can't believe this is a
sentence coming out of my. Mind. Again he Played kawhi
And derek as like the two three in some combination at,
times and that like fascinated me because they leaned into like,

(01:27:38):
this all, right our offense With kawhi is, good but
let's make our defense so swarming that like we can
just get away with every. ANYTHING i think next year
they're not gonna play this line, up BUT i want
to see it so bad where it's like Brook lopez
Of Viza, Zubats, Kawhi, Leonard Derek, jones and Like Chris
dunn Or i'd Probably Chris paul because you need the

(01:28:01):
ball handling point guard out, there AND i would just
kill to see that one, time to where you have
like this picking a pot Between Chris paul and Brook,
lopez but also you have like this rolling threat Of,
zoo the the threat Of, kawhi and then you Got
derek who can just play on the ball defensively with
two rim. Protectors, now granted you're probably playing just a

(01:28:23):
pure zone, defense BUT i just want to see it one,
time just to see what it would look, like BECAUSE
i WHEN i wrote about Brook lopez Is, FIT i
did SAY i don't think you'd ever See Brooklyn zoo play.
Together BUT i don't think it's crazy to see it
for like two minutes here and there like once every
like couple.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Weeks, WELL i had the same line up a. STEP
i Wanted, Chris Chris, Dunn Derek, Jones, Junior, Kawhi, zubots And.
Lopez SO i didn't Have Chris paul.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
And it's those four To, chris that's all that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
Matters, yeah that's, honestly you could throw Out Triple big,
too like let you want, Too let's Go collins And
zubots And. LOPEZ i, mean your spacing will be fine
on offense during THAT i don't know what your defense
look like or how you're supposed to Like, Kawhi and
then who would be if you're actually trying to round
out that? Lineup is It harden has to be the
next best option there probably be.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
Done it'd probably bet it'll probably Be, james, right because
like you need an actual like head of the snake type.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Thing can maybe you could go with if you Think
beale can defend anything at the point of, attack, though
maybe you go With Beale harden can't guard the four
in that?

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
Lineup, no, no you just, yeah so, yeah maybe Maybe.
Brad that would be actually be. Fun that would like who? Cares? Man,
like sometimes you gotta get a little bit, Wonky AND
i think that's what they should try. Sometimes, now LIKE i,
said you don't do it, like, oh here's an eight
minute stint of this, lineup but CAN i see it
for like two, minutes just just to see what it
would look. Like it's like doing. It it's Like charlotte

(01:29:50):
a game that where you're, like all, right the other
forty six minutes we have to take, seriously but for
these two, minutes let's see what we. Got all.

Speaker 2 (01:29:58):
Right so how many games do you see team? Winning
and where do you see them winding? Up in just
The Western conference in?

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
General WHEN i looked at the schedule a couple of weeks,
AGO i originally tweeted out THAT i went for a
very conservative number and of the eighty games that they
have on the, schedule because obviously we don't know what
two of them are going to, be, which by the,
way is still very strange to say, That, like it's
not an eighty two, game it's an eighty game plus
two random.

Speaker 2 (01:30:23):
Games at some, Point, hey it could be an eighty
three game season for them if they really care about
THE Nba.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
Cup, hey THEIR Nba cup. Groups actually it's kind of
winnable for.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Them will they be going for? It? Though hashtag going for.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
It IF i know one thing About, tylo he wants
to be In Las, vegas so they he will be
trying to.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Games, yeah there you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
Go, yeah, listen this might be the underdog for THE
Nba cup is what team wants to get To Las.
Vegas BUT i THINK i conservatively pegged them at fifty one,
wins and that's just BECAUSE i WAS i baked in some.
Injuries and then like their schedule has some like really

(01:31:06):
tough stretches because they're hosting The All Star game this,
year and there's like A i want to, say there's
like a stretch Post All Star break that is like pretty, Tough, whereas,
okay so the, yeah they're Post All star break Stretches Verse,
denver so they're at home actually ra after The All Star,

(01:31:27):
break but then it's At lakers on the second night
of a back to, back Versus, orlando Versus, minnesota Versus
New orleans At Golden, state and then they end up
going through like these weird stretches throughout the season of
like long road. Trips SO i THINK i penciled them
into fifty one because they have fifteen back to, backs
all this other extra, stuff, Injuries kawhi is like to
play a full year just because of the back to.

(01:31:48):
Backs BUT i might actually amend. THAT i think they
get to fifty.

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
Three it's weird to think of them winning one extra
game with all the talent that they. Added, also AND
i understand how stuff, played but it'd be. Weird so
fifty three sounds. RIGHT i haven't gone through my win predictions.
Yet is there a team, though Non Oklahoma City division
that's just that's? That, like that's either a fascinating or

(01:32:16):
a particularly tough matchup when viewed through the lens of
a playoff series for? Them is It denver? Again for?
You is someone else snuck in? There Maybe, Houston minnesota
and other Team they.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Really struggled With houston last, year but.

Speaker 2 (01:32:31):
Didn't get that Justin, yeah that's.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Fine, yeah believe, me a lot of the people on
The clippers didn't get it either because they were very
confused on how that. Happened but But houston's kind of
obviously with The durant trad altered their like their their
chemistry a little bit in terms of like on, court
so it's still Probably, Denver like it's still probably Just
denver because Obviously Nicola, yochis they still Have Jamal, murray

(01:32:57):
still Have Aaron gordon who traumatized. Them believe, me that
was the most wild Thing i've ever seen in. Person
then one of the most Incredible i've never seen an
entire arena of beat writers just try to figure out
if but it actually was a good, shot which was like.
Incredible we all sat there like from bull Size denver
And la just, like, NO i think he, no, MAN

(01:33:18):
i don't think he. Did, NO i think he did get.
THAT i, like no one knew it was. Great it.
Was it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Was it was just one of those moments you were
So i'm watching from home where it's like audible, gasp
like actual out. Loud it's just insane.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Because when The yoka just shot went, up everyone realized
it was it had no. Chance so there was like
a brief second where everyone's like overtime and then like
he caught it and dunked it and you're just, like oh,
no that was after the, buzzer and then like you
started seeing like frame by frame in the arena on
like The halo board and you're just, like, oh this

(01:33:51):
is really. Close and then they showed one frame and you, went,
oh my, god he actually he actually dunked like he got.
It like that's, crazy and, Like i'll never forget that
because even, afterwards AND i know this is like a side,
tender but even afterwards in the the media workroom and into,
it there was like thirty forty people and everyone's talking

(01:34:16):
And i'm just sitting there like pounding out my article
for the game and doing transcriptions and someone just, Goes,
MAN i like you, know that's, yeah could The clippers
have done this differently with this lineup and? This AND
i just yelled, out he just missed it so, Good
like what do you? Do like like they played great,

(01:34:37):
defense it just didn't matter like at the end of the.
Day But denver's probably the. TEAM i am interested to
see How denver does With Cam johnson, there because as
not good AS mpj was at times in that, series
he still killed, them like he still shot forty percent
from Three And i'm genuinely interested to, See like The cam,

(01:35:00):
fit he should be a seamless. Fit But Cam johnson's
also been injury. PRONE mpj played a lot last, year
SO i don't, know but that's the one team Where i'm,
like that's a tough matchup for The, clippers if you,
know if it happens in the playoffs, again which it probably,
will because that's what the gods are gonna beem for
the end of. Time it's Either Clippers dallas Or Clippers
nuggets until we all. Die that's what it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:22):
Is, justin COULD i get one More clippers prediction from
you for this coming? Season you could take it whichever
direction you.

Speaker 1 (01:35:29):
Want. Huh that's a tough. One it's hard to make
a prediction like kind of like out of left field for.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Me or it could be it could be as unbold
as you. Want AND i Just i'm looking for something
other than maybe not maybe not fifty three, wins just
anything from.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
THERE i think at the end of the, season, like
no matter what happens in the playoffs with, THEM i
don't think that's the title. Team but the crazier has
happened whatever happens at the end of the. Season at
the end of this past, season a couple months, ago

(01:36:08):
when the season ended the regular season was, OVER i
wrote an article saying The clippers were, Right like a
lot of people gave them crap for Letting Paul george,
walk which it would to be, fair Though dan was
fair because it didn't look like they had the means
to replace. Him now obviously they, did they just didn't
waste people didn't. THINK i think when we get to

(01:36:28):
the end this, year even if they don't win the,
title let's say they make the playoffs losing hypothetically the second,
round we might end up looking back and just being,
like this, TEAM i think this would be their fifteenth
straight winning season if it, Happens.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
Holy, SHIT i didn't even realize.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
That. Wow, Yeah, LIKE i genuinely think people are gonna
appreciate a decade and a half of winning even without a.
Title like fifteen straight years of win seasons is. Crazy
and if they get, THERE i hope people appreciate. It
and so my bullet prediction is gonna be that people

(01:37:08):
will appreciate the fact, that, like you have this team
who is just not rolling over and just being, like,
hey it didn't go so well this. Era you know
we're gonna Do we're just gonna punt and tank and
see what. Happens AND i think there will be a
greater appreciation for a team that just continually, tries BECAUSE
i remember Those Dallas mavericks teams With. Dirk they could

(01:37:30):
have pivoted and, tanked and but they Want they just
kept year after year going until it finally. Worked AND
i think that's the beauty of, sports is continually just
picking yourself up and, Going, okay we'll do it next.
Year we'll get him next, year like the Old Lovable, cubs,
right like all the lovable, losers The Chicago. Cubs BUT

(01:37:51):
i remember what will always stick with me is Postgame
game seven In, denver in that lock room and just
seeing the look on A Viza zubat's. Face Viza, Zubats
god love. Him he's the longest tenured Active. Clipper he's
been here for a lot of. Stuff most people wouldn't
even think he, is but he. Is AND i just

(01:38:14):
REMEMBER i saw how much it meant to him that
they didn't, win and he just looked, exasperated and just
like you could see how much it affected. Him and
that's WHAT i keep going back, to is we tend

(01:38:34):
to think of, like, oh that guy's got to go
to a different team because they're not, winning like they're
not winning the, title so he has to go find.
Something but THEN i looked at that zoo that night
and it kind of hit me, that, like this is
a guy who's in here for the long, Haul like
this is what it means to. Him it's not just
oh okay and just moving. On it's, like, no we

(01:38:57):
we should have, won and it's kind of that we.
Didn't AND i took it, personally and and NOW i
look back at, Them i'm, like, yeah continually trying to,
win because even if you end the season with that
level of despair and like, heartbreak it's so much better
than just twenty five wins and, hey maybe we'll get

(01:39:19):
the ping pong ball to go our. Way and then
then you find Out dallas Gets cooper flag and you're just, like,
okay what was the point even you know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
That was part Of Nico harrison's. Plan then you hear
your yeah yeah because that division now, right, yeah the
vision that left us all blind because no one had
the foresight to see that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
That was a. Possible but what they have like a
one point eight percent, chance like get out of, here
it's freaking. Red that just makes me mad Because dallas
ended up Getting Paige beckers And Cooper, flag and then
they Traded Michael parsons because of course no, one no
one In dallas can be. Happy So Cooper, flag you
got like five, years, Buddy you'll be somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:39:59):
Else Justin this was. Great thank you for giving me
ninety plus minutes of your, time the longest look ahead
we've had.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Yet that was way too.

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
Awesome are you able just to tell our listeners were
and watch, viewers, subscribers audience where they can find you
in all the great work that you. Do.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Uh you can follow me On twitter at Uh it's
at f l y b y K N i T.
E if you're On Blue, sky, uh it's fly By,
night same, spelling dot beskuidet. Social if you want to
follow me on, substack it's Justin russo dot substack dot.
Com i'm actually AFTER i get done with, YOU i
gotta write about The sparks game from last, night because

(01:40:38):
WHILE i was Covering Angel, CITY i actually had that
on the. Laptop SO i need to end up. Writing
The sparks are still alive for the. Playoffs oddly, enough
they keep surviving and it's. Great it's they if they
don't make the, playoffs it'll be five straight years without
a playoff birth then they desperately need.

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):
One justin thank you so much for all your.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
Time you. Do great work.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
Everyone i'll have to link to his substack in the
podcasting YouTube. DESCRIPTION i don't know how you cover so
much stuff as in depth as you, do BUT i
super appreciate. It thank you for coming back and rest.
Assured as you know by, Now i'll be pestering you
again in.

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
Future that's, fine no, problem man'. UH i do it
Because i'm a. Sicko IF i didn't have, IT i
don't know What i'd be, doing you, know

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