June 28, 2022 • 32 mins
This week we are talking about FRIEEENNDDS!!! Listen in as I discuss the importance of hobbies and hobby friends, why you need a friend who doesn’t care if your house is clean and how to navigate new friendships.
To get transcripts, links, and details from each episode, check out the show notes. To continue your support of the podcast and my work, become a member of my Patreon community where you can get access to archived episodes, bonus episodes, and behind the scenes content. Follow me on Instagram and Twitter, for podcast clips, poetry quotes and random quips. For information on how to book me to speak or perform at an event, visit amenabrown.com. Thanks for listening and thanks for your support!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Hey, y'all, welcome back to this week's episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And you know what I realized, y'all,
I several weeks ago did an episode called everyone Needs
That Friend, and y'all know what, I actually had a
part two to that that y'all are just now getting
to hear. So I'm gonna talk through the part two things,
(00:54):
but just feel like I feel like this came out
shortly after the first one, So I wanted to talk
about everyone needs that Friend because I really enjoyed our
part one episode and we talked about quite a few
friends that you need in your life, so I wanted
to name a few other types of friends. And then
at the end of this episode, I want to talk
(01:16):
about new friends because I think new friends are also important,
and it's important for us to give ourselves grace if
you go through seasons where we may not be in
a new friend's capacity. Right. One friend that everyone needs
is you need to come as you are a friend,
and I specifically mean a friend that you can have
(01:38):
come to your house when your house isn't clean, and
that they are not so bothered that your house isn't
clean that they can't just sit down and hang out
with you. You need a friend like that. You also
probably need some friends who just are are very neat
like that. You probably do need those people too, but
you need even somebody who could be neat, but could
come to your house and be like, I see that
(01:58):
the floors need to be swept. I see that the
toilet may not be cleaned all the way. You know,
I see that it's dusty in here, but I don't
care because I came here to see my friend. You
need that kind of friend, and I appreciate those friends,
you know. I try to be that friend to other
people if I can, you know, I try to be like,
I'm just come to your house. You know, we can
kick it, we can light a candle, you know, like
(02:19):
I'm not also, I'm your friend. I'm not worried about
your house being speaking span for me for me in
the way my husband and I are at our house.
Spick and span is the thing that we do for strangers.
Spick and span is a thing you do for people
you don't know. Once you know people, you just be like, look,
(02:41):
you know what our life is like, you know what's
been going on. Just come in, you know, And sometimes
you have those people who they just love you. They
see dishes in the sink while y'all talking, they want
to get up and do a dish. I welcome them
to do that, but it's not expected. You wanted to
have a friend that can just come to your house
and that they're not. I think what's underneath what I'm
trying to say there is you want to have a
(03:02):
come as you are friend, because that's a friend that's
never gonna judge you based on what your house is
like when they get there. And you need a friend
like that. You also need to keep it real friend.
And there there are a lot of layers to what
I'm about to stay here because I sometimes think people,
you know, people take the keep it real and you know,
we we've seen how keep it real can go wrong.
(03:23):
But I think there's a lot of layers to having
to keep it real friend. I think one of the
layers is you have a friend that you can have
that you can have really honest conversation with about uncomfortable topics. Right.
And I think we talked in the last episode that
I did about this. In the part one episode, I
(03:46):
think we talked about having a freaky friend and that
this can fall under the keep it real category, But
I also want to say keeping it real with your
friend like goes beyond sex as a topic, although that
can be a part of it, but it could also
be about I was about to say genitalia, but I
(04:08):
think I have a specific example I want to give here.
You know, for my friends that also have breasts and
also have vaginas, right, like having to keep it real
friend that you can say, hey, have you ever and
you can name them like some experience that you've had,
Like I know that I have talked to some of
my other friends who have breasts, and I have been like,
(04:30):
what's the deal with the boob sweat? What are you
doing about that in the summer in the South. That's
to keep your real friend someone that is not gonna
get like super uncomfortable with you saying these things. I
do think it. I do think sex could be included there,
but not in the same way as having a freaky friend,
like if you have to keep it real friend, Like
(04:50):
I know I have a couple of friends that you know,
they could call and be like, girl, what you've been
up to and you could actually tell them, like if
you were engaging in a sexual activity. You could just
drop to them like young girl was just doing that. Anyways,
I'm here now what you're up to. And they're not
gonna be like, uh, yikes, or you know, clutching their pearls.
They're just gonna move on. They're gonna be like, okay, cool,
(05:12):
he was doing that, you had a sandwich, great, Okay,
things like this. I think that is a part of
having a keep it real friend. I think on a
more vulnerable level, having a keep it real friend, it's
also someone that if you have something to say to
them that's hard for you to say, or that is
vulnerable for you to say, that you can keep it
(05:35):
real with them. I think that's the thing. When we
think about to keep it real friend, you could be
thinking about a friend you have who keeps it real,
and that's a part of it. But you can also
have a keep it real friend that you feel you
can keep it real with that you feel you don't
have to not talk about this or that if you
needed to bring that up to them. And I now
(06:00):
at at what the kids are saying. Is my big
age of forty two. I have experienced a lot of
life with my friends, my own things that I've been
through things that they've been through where we've needed to
be able to sit down and say, this is the
thing that's happening in my life. You know, for some
(06:21):
of my friends, they needed to be able to say
to me, my marriage is over. For some of my friends,
they needed to be able to say to me, here's
the struggle I'm having, you know, as a parent. For
some of my friends, they needed to say to me,
here's where I'm feeling pretty piste off about my dating
life right now, or here's where I'm feeling really disillusioned
(06:42):
with my career and what that could mean for me
financially if I make those choices. I think part of
having to keep it real friend is yes, you want
people in your life who keep it real with you.
You want people in your life that are not going
to be afraid to tell you what you might not
want to hear. You know, we talked about the fashion
friend too in the previous part one episode to this,
(07:03):
but you know, you want to have a friend that
can tell you if like the clothes you're wearing maybe
don't look good on you, but they can tell you
in sort of a loving way and help you, like
figure out how you're gonna fix it. You know, you
want to have some friends that can tell you when
your lipstick color could be better, but not because they
need to criticize you, not because they need to be
(07:23):
backhanded and mean towards you, but because they want good
for you, because they love you, and they have a
way of sharing that with you that shows the love there, right,
And you want to make sure you have friends that
you can say it. You know, you can say it.
And sometimes you're gonna have some hard stuff going on
(07:44):
in life. You're gonna have to admit some things that
are hard to say out loud to someone. But it's
good to have a friend that you can do that
with that. You know, if you had to call them
and tell them this thing that's like highly inappropriate, they're
gonna be like, I'm ready, I'm listening, tell me what's up.
You know, you want to have some friends with history.
And this is kind of an interesting one because I
(08:08):
remember in my in my twenties. I feel like my
twenties was a decade for me that I felt the
need for separation. Some of that separation was from my family,
you know, I felt like I needed to separate you
know from my family or from my parents in this
way because I needed to define my own adulthood, you know,
separate from them, right, And I think during that season
(08:30):
of life, I also I also just didn't necessarily see
the importance of having friends that you have history with,
because sometimes I think this is the trouble, right, because
sometimes we have friends that we have history with, but
that's all we have with them, right, we don't have
current experiences, current memories. It's sort of like your friends,
(08:53):
but your friends with who you were when you met
each other, or your friends with who you were in
the past. And that is not what I mean when
I say friends with history. I think it can be
not so great when you have a friendship and all
you have is the past, because what if that's not
who you are now, or what if you're into some
(09:14):
different things, or what if you just want to have
current experiences with your friends, you know, I think you
have to watch it when you have friendships and all
you have is history. If every time you get together
all you're doing is reminiscing on things that happened in
the past, then you ought to ask yourself, do I
(09:35):
feel like I can really be who I am now
around that person. Do I feel like there's more to
our friendship than just the past, right, So I think
it's good when you have friends with history who are
also willing to grow with you. And this does not
always come in the same package. You know. I have
(09:58):
some people that I would say are our friends that
all I have with them is that history we had,
and for a short period of conversation or for a
short visit, I don't mind reminiscing, you know, like I
don't mind being like, oh my gosh, you remember when
we blah blah blah blah blah blah blah after school
and all, you know, Like I don't mind doing that,
you know, for a time. But at a point, I'm
(10:19):
gonna be like, what, I'm not eighteen anymore, you know,
or I'm not twenty two or whatever age we were
when we met, whatever age we were when we made
those memories. You know, I want to know that you
can be my friend today and you can know me
from back then, but you are giving me the room
to become whoever I am today. And that is a
(10:42):
package deal. That when you get a friend that can
do both of those things, that's a real, real gift
in life. I am happy to say that I have
a few friends that fall in that category for me,
um that we've been friends. I have a best friend
that we've been friends since we were in high school
and we have walked each other through all sorts of life,
(11:03):
you know. But I know about her and I hope
that she knows about me too, that I'm not holding
her to the standard of who she was when we met.
I want her to be whoever she is now, you know.
I want to be whoever I am now, and I
want us to have both when we can. But I
think the plus when you have friends in your life
that are your current friends, that you can be yourself now,
(11:26):
but you have this history with them. I mean, first
of all, it gives a lot of amazing stories of
all the life you know that you've lived together over
the years. But it also really brings such like grounded
nous to the relationship because you're talking to someone who
(11:47):
knows you very well. And a lot of my friends
that I would say if it in this category for me,
that they're friends I have history with and we've been
able to grow together. We've been able to give each
other the room to become, you know, whoever we're going
to become. It's really hard to lie to them because
they've known me a long time. You know, when you
(12:07):
have newer friends sometimes, you know, if you're not thinking
about it, you can almost be like I wouldn't say
it's quite like reinventing yourself. You're being yourself, but you're
sort of like just sharing this who you are now.
It's going to take them time to get to know,
like who you were in these previous seasons of your life,
you know. And I could think of a really specific moment,
(12:28):
and I feel like maybe my friends Alita and I
talked about this when I had her on the podcast here,
But I remember I had a Thanksgiving where I was
really sad and just dealing with a lot of loss
and grief related to miscarriage and stuff like that that
had happened around that time of year. And three of
my friends from college that year happened to come over
(12:50):
our house for Thanksgiving. And I looked around, and you know,
everybody was sitting at their different tables, eating food and
playing cards and you know, just like chilling. How people
do want a holiday like that? And I looked around
and I felt so just I felt so much gratitude.
I felt so grateful that these were women that I
(13:14):
had been in the dorm with. You know, these were
women that we had all of us gone through a
lot of transitions and transformations and some tragedy, and you know,
we we had experienced all levels of things. And it
brought me a certain kind of comfort that they were
at my house that particular holiday because even if I
(13:38):
felt sad, I didn't have to perform happy for them
because we had history like that and they would never
want me to do that anyways. They had enough capacity
to hold space for me whatever I felt like. You know, um,
so I think it's good now now I can say it.
This season of life, it is dope when you have
(14:01):
friends that you have known for a long time but
you've been able to grow together. This is a very
dope experience. I recommend another friend that everyone needs is
a hobby friend. I maybe should start by saying that
it's nice when you can have a hobby, because some
of y'all might be like, I can't have a hobby
(14:23):
friend if I don't have a hobby. And I bring
up hobbies here with no judgment, you know, because I
think whether it's podcasting or conferences we attend or whatever.
Our social media, you know, we we get a lot
of prescriptive language from folks. You know, we get a
lot of like you gotta have this and you need that,
(14:44):
you know, and some of us, honestly, may be in
a place where we just we don't have a hobby.
We don't want one, we don't need one. Everyone doesn't
have to have a hobby. So I want to give
that caveat, But I want to say, if you do
have a hobby, I guess I want to speak to it.
Let to speak a little to hobbies for a minute
before I get to the hobby friend. I think sometimes
(15:04):
maybe hobby is a is becoming like an antiquated word, right,
I know, it's not something that I typically say in conversation, right,
And if I were somewhere and someone someone were to say,
you know, what are your hobbies? You know, hobbies always
seem like stamp collecting and maybe crocheting seems like it
falls under hobby to me, like it's it's always crafty
(15:26):
For some reason, when people say they have a hobby,
it's bird watching, it's it's crafty or its nature esque
and in my mind, you know, it's hard for me
to imagine hobbies outside of that. But I'm using hobby
just so it can be kind of like a short form,
you know, shortcut language there for us right now. But
I think really what we're talking about when we're talking
(15:47):
about hobbies, that we're talking about the stuff that you
do when you're not at work and when you're not
doing things for other people, the things that you do
because you love it or you enjoy it. What we
would have said when you were in college, maybe what
we would have said would be the elective. You know,
if you're if your life could have an elective, then
(16:10):
what would that be? You know? And I do think
it's worth even if it's not how I view a hobby,
just having like a somewhat of an extracurricular something that
you do, and maybe you don't do it every day,
and maybe you don't do it every week, but having
something that you're like, I do that and it's not
my job, and it's not me being with other people,
(16:32):
you know, whether that's family or friends or you know,
whatever social functions. It's stuff that I do because I
love it, I enjoy it, right, I think it's good
to find that for yourself and honestly, for me, like
some seasons of my life, it's cooking and learning to
cook new dishes that I've never learned how to cook before,
and stuff like that. That's a that's that's a hobby
(16:56):
of mine. Watching reality television is also a hobby of mine,
you know. Walking through antique stores, walking the aisles of
TJ Max. Those are things that I would count beyond
what my initial definition is when I hear the word hobby.
(17:28):
What could be interesting? Sometimes when you you have your
friends that you sort of have that deeper relationship too,
and I think that's wonderful. And I think it's also
good when you have friends that, like y'all have been
through all the stuff together, You've gone through the hard stuff.
I feel like I feel like I'm learning with my
friends to also make sure that we have time that
we just kind of like shoot the ship, you know
(17:49):
what I mean, We have time that we're not like
how that makes you feel? Then? What you say, do
you think that came from your family of origin? You know,
where you're not just talking about the hard things of life,
but where you can talk about some light stuff, you know, like,
I have a couple of friends that we love to
watch the same reality TV shows, so we'll catch up
(18:13):
and talk about, you know, maybe some challenges that we're
having in life, some other stressors than maybe going on,
and then we'll be like a girl love and marriage
Huntsville and then we get into that. I think it's
good to have a hobby friend, and I think that
can look, you know, a lot of different ways. But
it could be a friend that you have that maybe
y'all never talk about super deep stuff in life. Maybe
(18:35):
all y'all talk about is your hobby, and that is great.
Every friendship does not have to be deep. It's good
to have some friendships that are surface to mid And
I wasn't always of that opinion, Okay. I was more like,
I don't see why I would want to have friends
that I can't get like deep in life with them,
(18:56):
you know, But now I'm like, Yo, sometimes it's nice
to just have a friend that you can talk to
about furniture or whatever it is you're into, you know.
So having a hobby friend can be really great because
it encourages you to continue spending time doing something that
you love. But you also have someone to talk about it.
(19:17):
And truthfully, you probably have something in your life that
you really love or care about, and there may be
other people in your life, other family or friends or whatever,
that don't care about that thing at all, and you're
talking to them about this stuff you love to do,
and their eyes are glazing over because it's not important
to them. Find you a friend whose eyes aren't glazing
over about that. Find your friend that when you bring
(19:37):
that up there, like, yes, tell me all the details.
I want to hear it. That's what a hobby friend does.
Everybody needs that friend. And I am gonna close this
episode by saying everyone needs new friends sometimes, and I'm
going to caveat that, and we'll talk about that here.
I think the new friends are important because I think
(20:02):
I think it's good to open up your circle and
meet some new people. You may gain some new perspectives.
I also think what's interesting about having friends with history
is that sometimes you're friends with history, y'all. Y'all may
go through the phases or or different stages of life
differently or at different times, or y'all may experience it
(20:26):
where one friend goes through a certain stage of life
and the other friend doesn't right. So for example, you know,
even if we talk about developmentally right, like you may
be continuing to progress in your career, you may have
a friend who isn't progressing in their career or has
chosen not to because of other things that they wanted
(20:46):
to commit their life to write. Or you may you
maybe you may not be married, and you may have
a friend who gets married, and because of the dynamics
of their getting married, that may change some of the
dynamics or on their relationship. Obviously, this can also happen
when people move to a different place. This can also
happen when people have children, and there's just that difference
(21:09):
of like, well, you know, I'm living here, you used
to live here, when now you live there? You know,
or you know, we used to like do these types
of things in this way, We used to spend time
in these ways, but now we can't because you have
additional family commitment. Maybe you're caring for a parent, maybe
you're caring for a child. You know, all these different
dynamics that we learn to grow together and find ways
(21:31):
around and through as friends with history. But sometimes I
have found when that happens where especially when it's a
developmental thing, UM, as far as like stage of life
for or certain types of experiences like that, that sort
of can kind of feel like, Oh, this person is
not having that experience in their life. I'm not having
(21:51):
that experience. What does that mean? Well, sometimes that won't
mean different things for the friendship. UM, sometimes it won't,
and you'll find new ways to hang out to other
figure that out. But I also feel like when you
can open yourself to new friends, that's also good because
sometimes you may open yourself up to a new friend
that may share the stage of life where you are.
(22:14):
Maybe you're caring for a parent and most of your
friends aren't, you know, and you love them and they
love you, but they don't know the rigors of what
that's like, you know, and maybe you have you find
a new friend that understands that because they're also caring
for a parent or maybe you know. I know, for me,
career wise, UM, a lot of my really good and
(22:36):
close friends aren't in the same career you know that
I'm in. So there were certain things that we could
just talk about as professionals. But I realized I needed
some friends that also did something similar to what I
do for a living, so that I could share in
that with them. For me, that took the burden, um
off of my friends that may not know that much
about my career. Takes the burden off of me feeling like, oh,
(23:00):
why don't they understand? You know, um, it takes the
burden off of them being like, wait, what's that? So
how does that go? You know, and gives me the
ability to have some new friends that know the ins
and outs of my industry, that experience some of the
things that I experience as a professional. So I think
when it comes to new friends, UM, here would be
the tips that you know I would give you. I think,
(23:22):
I think, I think it's important to when you are
able to have an open heart to new friends. It
does take that. It takes you having the ability to
be open to getting to know other people, be open
to them getting to know you, to the time it
may take to get to know someone, right. I think
(23:43):
kind of similar to what you know we were talking
about with the hobby friend, it's okay to not have
to focus on the hard stuff when you first meet
a new friend. It's okay that it's surface at first
or for a while or whatever, just because you're not
getting to the deep recesses of your upbringing and traumas
(24:04):
you may have experienced and things like that doesn't mean
that this couldn't be a valuable friend in your life.
You know, I'm a person who I don't know. It's
like I'm trying to describe myself here. I'm like, I'm
not sure if I'm a person who wears my heart
on my sleeve. But I can be a person who
just gets right down to it as far as like
(24:24):
what's happening in my life. Like I've really had to
learn to practice with friends going more slowly, you know,
with letting them get to know me and not feeling
like not feeling like, oh my gosh, I just met you,
and I really like our vibe. So now I want
you to be in my life forever. I need to
catch you up on everything that ever happened to me,
you know, like the friends you have that you have
(24:46):
history with, you built that history slowly over time, you know,
and give your new friends the same give them the
same sort of grace or margin that way, I do
want to talk a little bit about what happens when
you're in a season of life that you cannot do
it with new friends. I think it was Drake who
(25:09):
had a song called no New Friends, And when I
first heard it, I was like, Wow, why would he
ever say that? And then I went through a few
I've I've gone through seasons a few times myself where
it is a season. I mean even actually, I would
say right now I'm in a season where, because of
things that are just happening in my life right now,
I'm not in a season where I can cultivate new
(25:30):
friendships right now. And I do think seasons like that exists,
and that's not a bad thing. You'll have seasons in
your life where you don't have capacity, you have capacity
to get to know someone else, you don't have capacity
to figure out how to kick it with them, how
to fold them into your life. And I think it's
important to acknowledge that and not feel bad or burdened
(25:53):
that that might be true for you. Um. The truth is,
I think if you meet a new friend, that could
be a great new friend for you, and you're in
a season right now where you can't be friends. If
you have capacity to say, man, like I'd love getting
to know you and talking to you, like we should
hang out. But I'm gonna tell you right now, things
is wild in life right now, give me, you know,
(26:14):
some time, I'll reach out. And if you are the
friend on the other side of that conversation, try to
hold space for the fact that people people are going
through a lot. People are going through a lot that
they may not tell you. People are going through a
lot that they may not even have capacity to explain
or tell you. And if you hear from a friend
of yours, hey, like I'm going through this, I'm processing this.
(26:38):
Give me time. When I'm ready, I'll reach out to you.
Let them reach out to you. Don't assume that because
such and such amount of days, weeks, months have gone
by that you have to kind of be the one
to keep up with that. I've had some seasons where
just even my mental health was in a place where
I can't manage all the catchups. You know, I can't.
(26:59):
I can't do that right now for for new friends.
I don't have the capacity for that at the moment.
And so when I say I will reach out to you,
and I have capacity, I will, but I don't know when.
I don't know if it's gonna be two months or
six months or you know. And sometimes to be truthful,
I've had some newer friends in life that what I
was going through I didn't even have capacity to say,
(27:23):
I don't have space for this right now, let me
get in touch with you. You know. I think this
goes back to what we were talking about in some
of the earlier friendship episodes, um a few months ago
in the podcast maybe that was several months ago now,
Really we were talking about, you know, this idea that
you know you're gonna have times that you don't you
(27:45):
don't have the capacity to communicate those things, and that
is sometimes how we either ghost friends or we have
been ghosted. And everybody hates to be ghosted, and plenty
of people have, you know, possibly not so great reasons
that they ghost. But I try to hold space for
people that Sometimes people are ghosting not because they're bad people.
(28:09):
Sometimes they're ghosting because they literally don't have capacity to
tell you that it's too much right now, you know.
So if you are not able to have new friends
right now in your life, that's okay, that's okay, And
don't put pressure on yourself, don't do any of that,
don't do any of that. Just be where you are,
be in the relationships you can be in be in
(28:30):
the friendships you can be in, and that's okay, you know.
And if you're a person who was looking forward to
that new friendship and you can kind of feel that
the person may not have space or capacity, try to
give them some margins, some grace, Try to give them
that that bit of patients that says, hey, you know,
we're friends. We're gonna be in each other's lives, you know,
(28:52):
like and and I will say about this. You know,
if if you have a friend, especially a new friend,
and you know, maybe maybe they're going through something and
they may not feel comfortable to talk to you about it.
If they say that, it's okay for you to communicate
to them, because if they tell you, like, please let
(29:12):
me do this, then let them. But if they have
given you like you might not hear from me, it's okay.
If you write to me, just have the margin that
you may not hear from me. Right. I have found
that the most helpful text messages are ones that sound
like this, Hey, I've been thinking about you. You've been
all my mind. No need to respond if you don't
feel up to it. Just wanted you to know you
(29:34):
were in my thoughts. People that have sent me, especially
when I was going through a really tough time. People
that have sent me funny links and been like I
thought about you, and I saw this, I wanted to
reach out and send it to you. Hope it gives
you a smile today, again with the no need to
respond if you don't feel up to it. You would
be surprised how much that sentence does for people. You
(29:57):
would be surprised how much of a it could give
to a friend that may be struggling at the moment.
And if you're a person who likes to communicate like that,
you want people to know you care about them. That
type of message is is I think could be more
helpful and better received then if you're if you're always
(30:17):
asking for something of them, even if you are like
what you're asking is pretty simple, even if you're like, hey,
how are you? Pretty simple message, right? But if in
my world, I'm super overwhelmed, I'm doing everything I can
to survive. I'm trying to keep my head above water, right,
I don't know how to answer that. If we're new
friends or if we're not, you know, close friends, it's
(30:40):
better to say, hey, thinking about you, checking on you,
what you wondering how you are. You know, no pressure
to respond, no need to write back. Give people those
things you know. Um, part of friendship, interestingly is cultivating
that communication in it's staying in touch, just doing those things.
(31:02):
But sometimes a part of being a good friend is
knowing when to give space. I went to hold it
as well, So we did it. Y'all. Everyone needs that friend.
I am so thankful for my friends who are that
friend to me. I hope that if there's someone that
came to your mind or your heart, maybe you can
reach out to them, maybe you can hang out with
(31:23):
them if if your schedules allow. But do what you
can to be a good friend. Do what you can
to to make sure that the good friends in your
life know you appreciate them. And as a great reminder,
my therapist has reminded me of this as well. And
also make sure that you remember to be a good
friend to yourself. Talk to you later. Her with a
(32:00):
Mina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for so Graffiti
Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network
and partnership with I Heart Radio. Thanks for listening and
don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast.
Hey, y'all, welcome back to this week's episode of Her
with Amina Brown. And you know what I realized, y'all,
I several weeks ago did an episode called everyone Needs
That Friend, and y'all know what, I actually had a
part two to that that y'all are just now getting
to hear. So I'm gonna talk through the part two things,
(00:54):
but just feel like I feel like this came out
shortly after the first one, So I wanted to talk
about everyone needs that Friend because I really enjoyed our
part one episode and we talked about quite a few
friends that you need in your life, so I wanted
to name a few other types of friends. And then
at the end of this episode, I want to talk
(01:16):
about new friends because I think new friends are also important,
and it's important for us to give ourselves grace if
you go through seasons where we may not be in
a new friend's capacity. Right. One friend that everyone needs
is you need to come as you are a friend,
and I specifically mean a friend that you can have
(01:38):
come to your house when your house isn't clean, and
that they are not so bothered that your house isn't
clean that they can't just sit down and hang out
with you. You need a friend like that. You also
probably need some friends who just are are very neat
like that. You probably do need those people too, but
you need even somebody who could be neat, but could
come to your house and be like, I see that
(01:58):
the floors need to be swept. I see that the
toilet may not be cleaned all the way. You know,
I see that it's dusty in here, but I don't
care because I came here to see my friend. You
need that kind of friend, and I appreciate those friends,
you know. I try to be that friend to other
people if I can, you know, I try to be like,
I'm just come to your house. You know, we can
kick it, we can light a candle, you know, like
(02:19):
I'm not also, I'm your friend. I'm not worried about
your house being speaking span for me for me in
the way my husband and I are at our house.
Spick and span is the thing that we do for strangers.
Spick and span is a thing you do for people
you don't know. Once you know people, you just be like, look,
(02:41):
you know what our life is like, you know what's
been going on. Just come in, you know, And sometimes
you have those people who they just love you. They
see dishes in the sink while y'all talking, they want
to get up and do a dish. I welcome them
to do that, but it's not expected. You wanted to
have a friend that can just come to your house
and that they're not. I think what's underneath what I'm
trying to say there is you want to have a
(03:02):
come as you are friend, because that's a friend that's
never gonna judge you based on what your house is
like when they get there. And you need a friend
like that. You also need to keep it real friend.
And there there are a lot of layers to what
I'm about to stay here because I sometimes think people,
you know, people take the keep it real and you know,
we we've seen how keep it real can go wrong.
(03:23):
But I think there's a lot of layers to having
to keep it real friend. I think one of the
layers is you have a friend that you can have
that you can have really honest conversation with about uncomfortable topics. Right.
And I think we talked in the last episode that
I did about this. In the part one episode, I
(03:46):
think we talked about having a freaky friend and that
this can fall under the keep it real category, But
I also want to say keeping it real with your
friend like goes beyond sex as a topic, although that
can be a part of it, but it could also
be about I was about to say genitalia, but I
(04:08):
think I have a specific example I want to give here.
You know, for my friends that also have breasts and
also have vaginas, right, like having to keep it real
friend that you can say, hey, have you ever and
you can name them like some experience that you've had,
Like I know that I have talked to some of
my other friends who have breasts, and I have been like,
(04:30):
what's the deal with the boob sweat? What are you
doing about that in the summer in the South. That's
to keep your real friend someone that is not gonna
get like super uncomfortable with you saying these things. I
do think it. I do think sex could be included there,
but not in the same way as having a freaky friend,
like if you have to keep it real friend, Like
(04:50):
I know I have a couple of friends that you know,
they could call and be like, girl, what you've been
up to and you could actually tell them, like if
you were engaging in a sexual activity. You could just
drop to them like young girl was just doing that. Anyways,
I'm here now what you're up to. And they're not
gonna be like, uh, yikes, or you know, clutching their pearls.
They're just gonna move on. They're gonna be like, okay, cool,
(05:12):
he was doing that, you had a sandwich, great, Okay,
things like this. I think that is a part of
having a keep it real friend. I think on a
more vulnerable level, having a keep it real friend, it's
also someone that if you have something to say to
them that's hard for you to say, or that is
vulnerable for you to say, that you can keep it
(05:35):
real with them. I think that's the thing. When we
think about to keep it real friend, you could be
thinking about a friend you have who keeps it real,
and that's a part of it. But you can also
have a keep it real friend that you feel you
can keep it real with that you feel you don't
have to not talk about this or that if you
needed to bring that up to them. And I now
(06:00):
at at what the kids are saying. Is my big
age of forty two. I have experienced a lot of
life with my friends, my own things that I've been
through things that they've been through where we've needed to
be able to sit down and say, this is the
thing that's happening in my life. You know, for some
(06:21):
of my friends, they needed to be able to say
to me, my marriage is over. For some of my friends,
they needed to be able to say to me, here's
the struggle I'm having, you know, as a parent. For
some of my friends, they needed to say to me,
here's where I'm feeling pretty piste off about my dating
life right now, or here's where I'm feeling really disillusioned
(06:42):
with my career and what that could mean for me
financially if I make those choices. I think part of
having to keep it real friend is yes, you want
people in your life who keep it real with you.
You want people in your life that are not going
to be afraid to tell you what you might not
want to hear. You know, we talked about the fashion
friend too in the previous part one episode to this,
(07:03):
but you know, you want to have a friend that
can tell you if like the clothes you're wearing maybe
don't look good on you, but they can tell you
in sort of a loving way and help you, like
figure out how you're gonna fix it. You know, you
want to have some friends that can tell you when
your lipstick color could be better, but not because they
need to criticize you, not because they need to be
(07:23):
backhanded and mean towards you, but because they want good
for you, because they love you, and they have a
way of sharing that with you that shows the love there, right,
And you want to make sure you have friends that
you can say it. You know, you can say it.
And sometimes you're gonna have some hard stuff going on
(07:44):
in life. You're gonna have to admit some things that
are hard to say out loud to someone. But it's
good to have a friend that you can do that
with that. You know, if you had to call them
and tell them this thing that's like highly inappropriate, they're
gonna be like, I'm ready, I'm listening, tell me what's up.
You know, you want to have some friends with history.
And this is kind of an interesting one because I
(08:08):
remember in my in my twenties. I feel like my
twenties was a decade for me that I felt the
need for separation. Some of that separation was from my family,
you know, I felt like I needed to separate you
know from my family or from my parents in this
way because I needed to define my own adulthood, you know,
separate from them, right, And I think during that season
(08:30):
of life, I also I also just didn't necessarily see
the importance of having friends that you have history with,
because sometimes I think this is the trouble, right, because
sometimes we have friends that we have history with, but
that's all we have with them, right, we don't have
current experiences, current memories. It's sort of like your friends,
(08:53):
but your friends with who you were when you met
each other, or your friends with who you were in
the past. And that is not what I mean when
I say friends with history. I think it can be
not so great when you have a friendship and all
you have is the past, because what if that's not
who you are now, or what if you're into some
(09:14):
different things, or what if you just want to have
current experiences with your friends, you know, I think you
have to watch it when you have friendships and all
you have is history. If every time you get together
all you're doing is reminiscing on things that happened in
the past, then you ought to ask yourself, do I
(09:35):
feel like I can really be who I am now
around that person. Do I feel like there's more to
our friendship than just the past, right, So I think
it's good when you have friends with history who are
also willing to grow with you. And this does not
always come in the same package. You know. I have
(09:58):
some people that I would say are our friends that
all I have with them is that history we had,
and for a short period of conversation or for a
short visit, I don't mind reminiscing, you know, like I
don't mind being like, oh my gosh, you remember when
we blah blah blah blah blah blah blah after school
and all, you know, Like I don't mind doing that,
you know, for a time. But at a point, I'm
(10:19):
gonna be like, what, I'm not eighteen anymore, you know,
or I'm not twenty two or whatever age we were
when we met, whatever age we were when we made
those memories. You know, I want to know that you
can be my friend today and you can know me
from back then, but you are giving me the room
to become whoever I am today. And that is a
(10:42):
package deal. That when you get a friend that can
do both of those things, that's a real, real gift
in life. I am happy to say that I have
a few friends that fall in that category for me,
um that we've been friends. I have a best friend
that we've been friends since we were in high school
and we have walked each other through all sorts of life,
(11:03):
you know. But I know about her and I hope
that she knows about me too, that I'm not holding
her to the standard of who she was when we met.
I want her to be whoever she is now, you know.
I want to be whoever I am now, and I
want us to have both when we can. But I
think the plus when you have friends in your life
that are your current friends, that you can be yourself now,
(11:26):
but you have this history with them. I mean, first
of all, it gives a lot of amazing stories of
all the life you know that you've lived together over
the years. But it also really brings such like grounded
nous to the relationship because you're talking to someone who
(11:47):
knows you very well. And a lot of my friends
that I would say if it in this category for me,
that they're friends I have history with and we've been
able to grow together. We've been able to give each
other the room to become, you know, whoever we're going
to become. It's really hard to lie to them because
they've known me a long time. You know, when you
(12:07):
have newer friends sometimes, you know, if you're not thinking
about it, you can almost be like I wouldn't say
it's quite like reinventing yourself. You're being yourself, but you're
sort of like just sharing this who you are now.
It's going to take them time to get to know,
like who you were in these previous seasons of your life,
you know. And I could think of a really specific moment,
(12:28):
and I feel like maybe my friends Alita and I
talked about this when I had her on the podcast here,
But I remember I had a Thanksgiving where I was
really sad and just dealing with a lot of loss
and grief related to miscarriage and stuff like that that
had happened around that time of year. And three of
my friends from college that year happened to come over
(12:50):
our house for Thanksgiving. And I looked around, and you know,
everybody was sitting at their different tables, eating food and
playing cards and you know, just like chilling. How people
do want a holiday like that? And I looked around
and I felt so just I felt so much gratitude.
I felt so grateful that these were women that I
(13:14):
had been in the dorm with. You know, these were
women that we had all of us gone through a
lot of transitions and transformations and some tragedy, and you know,
we we had experienced all levels of things. And it
brought me a certain kind of comfort that they were
at my house that particular holiday because even if I
(13:38):
felt sad, I didn't have to perform happy for them
because we had history like that and they would never
want me to do that anyways. They had enough capacity
to hold space for me whatever I felt like. You know, um,
so I think it's good now now I can say it.
This season of life, it is dope when you have
(14:01):
friends that you have known for a long time but
you've been able to grow together. This is a very
dope experience. I recommend another friend that everyone needs is
a hobby friend. I maybe should start by saying that
it's nice when you can have a hobby, because some
of y'all might be like, I can't have a hobby
(14:23):
friend if I don't have a hobby. And I bring
up hobbies here with no judgment, you know, because I
think whether it's podcasting or conferences we attend or whatever.
Our social media, you know, we we get a lot
of prescriptive language from folks. You know, we get a
lot of like you gotta have this and you need that,
(14:44):
you know, and some of us, honestly, may be in
a place where we just we don't have a hobby.
We don't want one, we don't need one. Everyone doesn't
have to have a hobby. So I want to give
that caveat, But I want to say, if you do
have a hobby, I guess I want to speak to it.
Let to speak a little to hobbies for a minute
before I get to the hobby friend. I think sometimes
(15:04):
maybe hobby is a is becoming like an antiquated word, right,
I know, it's not something that I typically say in conversation, right,
And if I were somewhere and someone someone were to say,
you know, what are your hobbies? You know, hobbies always
seem like stamp collecting and maybe crocheting seems like it
falls under hobby to me, like it's it's always crafty
(15:26):
For some reason, when people say they have a hobby,
it's bird watching, it's it's crafty or its nature esque
and in my mind, you know, it's hard for me
to imagine hobbies outside of that. But I'm using hobby
just so it can be kind of like a short form,
you know, shortcut language there for us right now. But
I think really what we're talking about when we're talking
(15:47):
about hobbies, that we're talking about the stuff that you
do when you're not at work and when you're not
doing things for other people, the things that you do
because you love it or you enjoy it. What we
would have said when you were in college, maybe what
we would have said would be the elective. You know,
if you're if your life could have an elective, then
(16:10):
what would that be? You know? And I do think
it's worth even if it's not how I view a hobby,
just having like a somewhat of an extracurricular something that
you do, and maybe you don't do it every day,
and maybe you don't do it every week, but having
something that you're like, I do that and it's not
my job, and it's not me being with other people,
(16:32):
you know, whether that's family or friends or you know,
whatever social functions. It's stuff that I do because I
love it, I enjoy it, right, I think it's good
to find that for yourself and honestly, for me, like
some seasons of my life, it's cooking and learning to
cook new dishes that I've never learned how to cook before,
and stuff like that. That's a that's that's a hobby
(16:56):
of mine. Watching reality television is also a hobby of mine,
you know. Walking through antique stores, walking the aisles of
TJ Max. Those are things that I would count beyond
what my initial definition is when I hear the word hobby.
(17:28):
What could be interesting? Sometimes when you you have your
friends that you sort of have that deeper relationship too,
and I think that's wonderful. And I think it's also
good when you have friends that, like y'all have been
through all the stuff together, You've gone through the hard stuff.
I feel like I feel like I'm learning with my
friends to also make sure that we have time that
we just kind of like shoot the ship, you know
(17:49):
what I mean, We have time that we're not like
how that makes you feel? Then? What you say, do
you think that came from your family of origin? You know,
where you're not just talking about the hard things of life,
but where you can talk about some light stuff, you know, like,
I have a couple of friends that we love to
watch the same reality TV shows, so we'll catch up
(18:13):
and talk about, you know, maybe some challenges that we're
having in life, some other stressors than maybe going on,
and then we'll be like a girl love and marriage
Huntsville and then we get into that. I think it's
good to have a hobby friend, and I think that
can look, you know, a lot of different ways. But
it could be a friend that you have that maybe
y'all never talk about super deep stuff in life. Maybe
(18:35):
all y'all talk about is your hobby, and that is great.
Every friendship does not have to be deep. It's good
to have some friendships that are surface to mid And
I wasn't always of that opinion, Okay. I was more like,
I don't see why I would want to have friends
that I can't get like deep in life with them,
(18:56):
you know, But now I'm like, Yo, sometimes it's nice
to just have a friend that you can talk to
about furniture or whatever it is you're into, you know.
So having a hobby friend can be really great because
it encourages you to continue spending time doing something that
you love. But you also have someone to talk about it.
(19:17):
And truthfully, you probably have something in your life that
you really love or care about, and there may be
other people in your life, other family or friends or whatever,
that don't care about that thing at all, and you're
talking to them about this stuff you love to do,
and their eyes are glazing over because it's not important
to them. Find you a friend whose eyes aren't glazing
over about that. Find your friend that when you bring
(19:37):
that up there, like, yes, tell me all the details.
I want to hear it. That's what a hobby friend does.
Everybody needs that friend. And I am gonna close this
episode by saying everyone needs new friends sometimes, and I'm
going to caveat that, and we'll talk about that here.
I think the new friends are important because I think
(20:02):
I think it's good to open up your circle and
meet some new people. You may gain some new perspectives.
I also think what's interesting about having friends with history
is that sometimes you're friends with history, y'all. Y'all may
go through the phases or or different stages of life
differently or at different times, or y'all may experience it
(20:26):
where one friend goes through a certain stage of life
and the other friend doesn't right. So for example, you know,
even if we talk about developmentally right, like you may
be continuing to progress in your career, you may have
a friend who isn't progressing in their career or has
chosen not to because of other things that they wanted
(20:46):
to commit their life to write. Or you may you
maybe you may not be married, and you may have
a friend who gets married, and because of the dynamics
of their getting married, that may change some of the
dynamics or on their relationship. Obviously, this can also happen
when people move to a different place. This can also
happen when people have children, and there's just that difference
(21:09):
of like, well, you know, I'm living here, you used
to live here, when now you live there? You know,
or you know, we used to like do these types
of things in this way, We used to spend time
in these ways, but now we can't because you have
additional family commitment. Maybe you're caring for a parent, maybe
you're caring for a child. You know, all these different
dynamics that we learn to grow together and find ways
(21:31):
around and through as friends with history. But sometimes I
have found when that happens where especially when it's a
developmental thing, UM, as far as like stage of life
for or certain types of experiences like that, that sort
of can kind of feel like, Oh, this person is
not having that experience in their life. I'm not having
(21:51):
that experience. What does that mean? Well, sometimes that won't
mean different things for the friendship. UM, sometimes it won't,
and you'll find new ways to hang out to other
figure that out. But I also feel like when you
can open yourself to new friends, that's also good because
sometimes you may open yourself up to a new friend
that may share the stage of life where you are.
(22:14):
Maybe you're caring for a parent and most of your
friends aren't, you know, and you love them and they
love you, but they don't know the rigors of what
that's like, you know, and maybe you have you find
a new friend that understands that because they're also caring
for a parent or maybe you know. I know, for me,
career wise, UM, a lot of my really good and
(22:36):
close friends aren't in the same career you know that
I'm in. So there were certain things that we could
just talk about as professionals. But I realized I needed
some friends that also did something similar to what I
do for a living, so that I could share in
that with them. For me, that took the burden, um
off of my friends that may not know that much
about my career. Takes the burden off of me feeling like, oh,
(23:00):
why don't they understand? You know, um, it takes the
burden off of them being like, wait, what's that? So
how does that go? You know, and gives me the
ability to have some new friends that know the ins
and outs of my industry, that experience some of the
things that I experience as a professional. So I think
when it comes to new friends, UM, here would be
the tips that you know I would give you. I think,
(23:22):
I think, I think it's important to when you are
able to have an open heart to new friends. It
does take that. It takes you having the ability to
be open to getting to know other people, be open
to them getting to know you, to the time it
may take to get to know someone, right. I think
(23:43):
kind of similar to what you know we were talking
about with the hobby friend, it's okay to not have
to focus on the hard stuff when you first meet
a new friend. It's okay that it's surface at first
or for a while or whatever, just because you're not
getting to the deep recesses of your upbringing and traumas
(24:04):
you may have experienced and things like that doesn't mean
that this couldn't be a valuable friend in your life.
You know, I'm a person who I don't know. It's
like I'm trying to describe myself here. I'm like, I'm
not sure if I'm a person who wears my heart
on my sleeve. But I can be a person who
just gets right down to it as far as like
(24:24):
what's happening in my life. Like I've really had to
learn to practice with friends going more slowly, you know,
with letting them get to know me and not feeling
like not feeling like, oh my gosh, I just met you,
and I really like our vibe. So now I want
you to be in my life forever. I need to
catch you up on everything that ever happened to me,
you know, like the friends you have that you have
(24:46):
history with, you built that history slowly over time, you know,
and give your new friends the same give them the
same sort of grace or margin that way, I do
want to talk a little bit about what happens when
you're in a season of life that you cannot do
it with new friends. I think it was Drake who
(25:09):
had a song called no New Friends, And when I
first heard it, I was like, Wow, why would he
ever say that? And then I went through a few
I've I've gone through seasons a few times myself where
it is a season. I mean even actually, I would
say right now I'm in a season where, because of
things that are just happening in my life right now,
I'm not in a season where I can cultivate new
(25:30):
friendships right now. And I do think seasons like that exists,
and that's not a bad thing. You'll have seasons in
your life where you don't have capacity, you have capacity
to get to know someone else, you don't have capacity
to figure out how to kick it with them, how
to fold them into your life. And I think it's
important to acknowledge that and not feel bad or burdened
(25:53):
that that might be true for you. Um. The truth is,
I think if you meet a new friend, that could
be a great new friend for you, and you're in
a season right now where you can't be friends. If
you have capacity to say, man, like I'd love getting
to know you and talking to you, like we should
hang out. But I'm gonna tell you right now, things
is wild in life right now, give me, you know,
(26:14):
some time, I'll reach out. And if you are the
friend on the other side of that conversation, try to
hold space for the fact that people people are going
through a lot. People are going through a lot that
they may not tell you. People are going through a
lot that they may not even have capacity to explain
or tell you. And if you hear from a friend
of yours, hey, like I'm going through this, I'm processing this.
(26:38):
Give me time. When I'm ready, I'll reach out to you.
Let them reach out to you. Don't assume that because
such and such amount of days, weeks, months have gone
by that you have to kind of be the one
to keep up with that. I've had some seasons where
just even my mental health was in a place where
I can't manage all the catchups. You know, I can't.
(26:59):
I can't do that right now for for new friends.
I don't have the capacity for that at the moment.
And so when I say I will reach out to you,
and I have capacity, I will, but I don't know when.
I don't know if it's gonna be two months or
six months or you know. And sometimes to be truthful,
I've had some newer friends in life that what I
was going through I didn't even have capacity to say,
(27:23):
I don't have space for this right now, let me
get in touch with you. You know. I think this
goes back to what we were talking about in some
of the earlier friendship episodes, um a few months ago
in the podcast maybe that was several months ago now,
Really we were talking about, you know, this idea that
you know you're gonna have times that you don't you
(27:45):
don't have the capacity to communicate those things, and that
is sometimes how we either ghost friends or we have
been ghosted. And everybody hates to be ghosted, and plenty
of people have, you know, possibly not so great reasons
that they ghost. But I try to hold space for
people that Sometimes people are ghosting not because they're bad people.
(28:09):
Sometimes they're ghosting because they literally don't have capacity to
tell you that it's too much right now, you know.
So if you are not able to have new friends
right now in your life, that's okay, that's okay, And
don't put pressure on yourself, don't do any of that,
don't do any of that. Just be where you are,
be in the relationships you can be in be in
(28:30):
the friendships you can be in, and that's okay, you know.
And if you're a person who was looking forward to
that new friendship and you can kind of feel that
the person may not have space or capacity, try to
give them some margins, some grace, Try to give them
that that bit of patients that says, hey, you know,
we're friends. We're gonna be in each other's lives, you know,
(28:52):
like and and I will say about this. You know,
if if you have a friend, especially a new friend,
and you know, maybe maybe they're going through something and
they may not feel comfortable to talk to you about it.
If they say that, it's okay for you to communicate
to them, because if they tell you, like, please let
(29:12):
me do this, then let them. But if they have
given you like you might not hear from me, it's okay.
If you write to me, just have the margin that
you may not hear from me. Right. I have found
that the most helpful text messages are ones that sound
like this, Hey, I've been thinking about you. You've been
all my mind. No need to respond if you don't
feel up to it. Just wanted you to know you
(29:34):
were in my thoughts. People that have sent me, especially
when I was going through a really tough time. People
that have sent me funny links and been like I
thought about you, and I saw this, I wanted to
reach out and send it to you. Hope it gives
you a smile today, again with the no need to
respond if you don't feel up to it. You would
be surprised how much that sentence does for people. You
(29:57):
would be surprised how much of a it could give
to a friend that may be struggling at the moment.
And if you're a person who likes to communicate like that,
you want people to know you care about them. That
type of message is is I think could be more
helpful and better received then if you're if you're always
(30:17):
asking for something of them, even if you are like
what you're asking is pretty simple, even if you're like, hey,
how are you? Pretty simple message, right? But if in
my world, I'm super overwhelmed, I'm doing everything I can
to survive. I'm trying to keep my head above water, right,
I don't know how to answer that. If we're new
friends or if we're not, you know, close friends, it's
(30:40):
better to say, hey, thinking about you, checking on you,
what you wondering how you are. You know, no pressure
to respond, no need to write back. Give people those
things you know. Um, part of friendship, interestingly is cultivating
that communication in it's staying in touch, just doing those things.
(31:02):
But sometimes a part of being a good friend is
knowing when to give space. I went to hold it
as well, So we did it. Y'all. Everyone needs that friend.
I am so thankful for my friends who are that
friend to me. I hope that if there's someone that
came to your mind or your heart, maybe you can
reach out to them, maybe you can hang out with
(31:23):
them if if your schedules allow. But do what you
can to be a good friend. Do what you can
to to make sure that the good friends in your
life know you appreciate them. And as a great reminder,
my therapist has reminded me of this as well. And
also make sure that you remember to be a good
friend to yourself. Talk to you later. Her with a
(32:00):
Mina Brown is produced by Matt Owen for so Graffiti
Productions as a part of the Seneca Women Podcast Network
and partnership with I Heart Radio. Thanks for listening and
don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the podcast.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com