March 21, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, we dive into the clash between this podcaster's Snow White review and the reactions from both fellow film critics and conservatives. The chasm in opinion highlights our increasingly tribal nature, where we tend to follow narratives and groupthink instead of expressing our true feelings. We explore how this phenomenon plays out in pop culture, film criticism and beyond.
Additionally, we chat with Ted and Courtney Balaker, the filmmakers behind "The Coddling of the American Mind," a powerful new documentary examining the dangerous trends on college campuses today. If you're sending your child off to college this Fall, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss. We break down the film's critical perspective on the rise of microaggressions and their impact on mental health, free speech, and intellectual growth. The Coddling of the American Mind shines a frightening light on the current state of higher education.
https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/snow-white-disney-review-2025-zegler-gadot/
https://www.thecoddlingmovie.com Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto Read Hollywood in Toto -
https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
Additionally, we chat with Ted and Courtney Balaker, the filmmakers behind "The Coddling of the American Mind," a powerful new documentary examining the dangerous trends on college campuses today. If you're sending your child off to college this Fall, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss. We break down the film's critical perspective on the rise of microaggressions and their impact on mental health, free speech, and intellectual growth. The Coddling of the American Mind shines a frightening light on the current state of higher education.
https://www.hollywoodintoto.com/snow-white-disney-review-2025-zegler-gadot/
https://www.thecoddlingmovie.com Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto Read Hollywood in Toto -
https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week in the Hollywood and Total Podcast, I share
my review of Snow White. Yeah These Snow White with
Rachel Zegler, and I'm as shocked as anyone by my reaction.
And we talked to the filmmakers behind the coddling of
the American mind. It is a provocative new documentary that
looks at what's happening in college campuses. It's ugly, but
we just can't look away.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to the Hollywood and Total Podcast. Entertainment news and
reviews without doubt, woke, Hollywood, narrative, free speech, re expression.
Now that's entertainment, and here's your host, Award winning film
critic Christian Toto.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I am contractually obligated to hate Snow White, right, I mean,
I'm a conservative film critic. The movie's been under fire
for about two years now, give or take from people
on the right, comments that Rachel Zegler made, comments from Disney,
Disney saying we can't put dwarfs in the movie. It's
not exactly kosher. And twenty twenty five, there's been so
(01:11):
much said about this movie, and a lot of my
friends in the right of center landscape, from YouTubers to podcasters,
they've been just absolutely attacking the movie for months and
months at a time, so I have to hate it right,
and it's my job. I'm a conservative film correct I
can't give this a rave, but I hadn't seen it yet,
and now that I have, I have to say.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Kind of liked it. That's shocking.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Thought it was charming, not prince charming, just straightforward charming. Yeah,
this update is certainly woke on paper. The snow white
character isn't just front and center. She is the heroine here.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
She must save the day.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And yes there's a prince like figure who's in the story,
but he really doesn't command much of anything. This is
Rachel Zegler being her Rachel Zegler est, and the third
act of the film really does compromise the original story
to push it in that direction. Again, I can't deny
any of that, but I also can't deny I found
it engaging. I enjoyed Rechel Zegler. She's got a lovely
(02:09):
voice and she's a strong presence in the film. I
like the dwarves. Yes there's CGI, and I think they
should have gone with actual little people playing these roles,
but as it stands out that they were perfectly fine,
and I actually thought a subplot where snow White kind
of helps with with Dopey's self esteem. I thought it
was really sweet, and I think a lot of the
movie is.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Sweet and the biggest liar I've ever met.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Now, there's been so much behind the scenes going on here.
There were lots of reshoots apparently. It just can't see
it on screen. It doesn't feel like a movie that's
been fixed in the editing room. And that's to the
credit of all the filmmakers here. Whatever they did, they
made it seem as if this was the original concept,
so I didn't hate it. The musical numbers are perfectly fine.
(02:52):
Some of the supporting performances again good. I liked Gal
Gadatta is the Evil Queen. Even though most of my.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Fellow film critics sir in it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I don't quite get it, but I have to call
it like I see it, and That's what I'm doing.
And you know, I've actually taken some heat on social
media for that. I'm a right of center film critic.
Why am I saying that Snow White is actually pretty good?
A lot of people on Twitter were saying, yeah, I'm
not going to see it. I don't care what you say,
and somewhere a little bit crueler than that for me
daring to like it and listen. I'm a big boy.
(03:21):
I can take the slings and arrows, especially on social media.
That's the way the landscape is.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Because someone is bullying you, and you never.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Let a bully win. But I also don't want to
be that critic, the person who's on the right and
only likes right of center movies or eight political movies.
If I see a left of center film, I have
to automatically say this stinks, no way, avoid.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It all costs. I just can't do that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But you know, a critic has to do his job
and just call balls and strikes, and that's what I'm
trying to do with the movie. I acknowledge its flaws,
and as a right of center film critic in my
official review at Hollywood intoto dot com, I do lay
out what has been changed, why it's different, and why
it does really overlap with Disney's more woke agenda, which
again has been shrinking in recent months, but is certainly
(04:09):
they are all the same. Given all of that, I
can't maybe get more clicks on YouTube or or even
on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast. By
saying what I'm saying, it sort of goes against my
brand in a way, But again, I gotta be who
I am.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
And be honest with the with the audience.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Now, I think that word of mouth will be rather
good in this movie. I think little girls are going
to adore snow White in the whole story here, and
I think that families will appreciate some of the messages
in it about being kind and decent and open and generous.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
All the things that the Eva Queen is not.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I'm not bad. But having said all that, you know,
I think that's part of the problem we find in
our tribalistic culture, where you have to kind of pick
a side, stay in that side, and be loyal to
that side. But I think often the more honest conversations
happen in the middle. And again I am right of
center on abashedly so. But I'm not going to fall
(05:01):
for that time after time after time. Got to be honest,
got to be straightforward, that's what matters. Having said all that,
I think this movie will underperform at the box office.
It's doing it as we.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Speak, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I think that the film will probably have legs. Most
kids' films do at the box office. Parents are always
looking for an excuse to kind of shove the kids
away for just two hours so they can actually get
the work done, you know, clean the laundry and do
the dishes, and just do the shopping and all the
little chores that pop up during the day. And if
the kid's gonna have a gay old time while that's happening,
(05:34):
all the better. But you know, in a way, this
movie and the kerfuffle around it reminded me a little
bit of the Lady Ghostbusters from twenty sixteen. So Hebby,
I've been doing a lot of thinking, and congratulations, I've
decided to become a Ghostbuster now. That movie was coming out,
hadn't even hit theaters yet, and it became a culture
war touchstone. They were people who were saying, you must
(05:55):
like the movie. To not like the movie meant you
were some sort of a bigot. There are major journalistic
institutions telling us that if you didn't like the Ghostbusters
trailer and it was awful, you were a misogynist. That
actually happened, And I feel like, in a way, that
culture war battle is a.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Bookend to this one.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
We've got snow White, You've got Disney. We've got Disney
backpedaling on its heels for a movie, for a live
action adaptation of one of the most beloved animated films.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Something's changing in the culture.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know, maybe back in twenty sixteen, if Disney had
come out with Snow White, then they would have stood tall.
They would have resisted any sort of right of center
criticisms about the movie. They would have just gone straight ahead.
But not today. We're seeing Disney backpedal on a lot
of fronts. The recent Mauana two and Inside Out too,
they were completely apolitical. The recent Winn or Lose TV
(06:48):
show that's on Disney Plus took out a trans character,
and now there's a Christian character in the story.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I don't know if he or she was.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Originally planned, but isn't that a sea change as well?
But I think Disney's learn the hard way. If you
insult your audience, if you take an iconic brand and
you trash it, whether directly or indirectly, or maybe directly
when it comes to Rachel Zeggler, there are consequences. Just
be kind, be positive, be forthcoming, say we're looking forward
(07:16):
to more people seeing.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Snow White and leave it at that.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I think Rachel Zegler, at least I hope she's learned
some valuable lessons about this process. Doesn't mean you want
to clamp down in her free speech, not at all.
But if you're an actress trying to promote the film,
don't trash the source material. Don't attack half the country
from voting the way they did. I think we'll look
back at this whole Snow White debacle with a lot
of lessons learned. But the end of the day, I
found the movie was pretty good, and I think that's
(07:42):
ultimately what film audiences want. So if you see it,
if you dislike it, if you love it, please let
me know in the comments section, or just go to
Hollywood intoto dot com. You can weigh in on my
official review there see what you think. But the bottom
line is one that we've learned for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Go broke.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It's a maxim as old as time itself, or.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
At least from twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Adam Krola has one thing in mind when he talks
about his children.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
He's got twins.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
They're roughly eighteen or so years old now, entering adulthood,
he wants them to have grit.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
They can handle anything they've got.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Not fame, not fortune, but grit. Now, we all want
to protect our children. We all want to kind of
make sure they don't get bumps and bruises, they don't
get insulted on the playground, they don't get pressure from
outside forces. We want their lives to be as smooth
as possible. But having said all that, when they do
experience hardships, when they do have bullies at school or
(08:51):
find some other situations where they're not treated, well, they
have to process that too. And going through those obstacles
and those bumps in the road, well it gives them
writ Now, the movie I'm about to talk about is
the opposite of that. Sometimes people and children are coddled,
and The Coddling of the American Mind explores that directly,
and it's pretty chilling. I was full of self confidence
(09:14):
when I was eighteen, but while I was in college
that disintegrated.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Mental health among gen Z's a travesty.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Almost every other person I know has some sort of
mental health problem.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
From the DO, documentary looks at college life and how
college institutions are warping the minds of young people. It's
not about politics per se, but it is about microaggressions.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
But even I'm offended by this stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It is about white supremacy. It is about saying you're
not equal. You're living in a country that is going
to treat you as a less than equal person, and
you have to behave accordingly. A matter of fact, you
might as well give up because the microaggression they're all
around us. It is a fascinating look at culture, and
it's through the eyes of several students who didn't know
what to expect when they came to school, except they
(10:01):
really wanted to have great debates and encounter new ideas.
But what they learned is there wasn't much room for debate.
They couldn't say what they wanted to say, and the
ideas in question, well, you had to follow a certain
path and deviate from their path. Now, the movie itself
is based on a book from the about twenty fifteen
by Jonathan Height and Greg Lukianov, and it explores this
(10:24):
topic in great detail. Now that, of course, the movie
can't do go into his depth as that book does,
but it does plumb this material in fascinating ways. So
I wanted to have the filmmakers on the show, and
it turns out I've gotten to know them a little
bit over the years. It's Ted and Courtney Ballacker, and
if you don't know the names, you probably know their
movies Little Pink House, which was sensational from a few
(10:44):
years ago, and also Can We Take a Joke which
came out just before the Wolk Revolution was really hitting
its stride. That was the movie about, you know, people
being upset and offended by jokes and what consequences they
were for comedians who told those wrong jokes. With The
Coddling of the American Mind is a terrific movie, an
important movie, I'd say, so. Hope you enjoyed my conversation
(11:04):
with Ted and Courtney Blacker. Talented filmmakers making movies that
should be out in the marketplace but often aren't. So
wh't you love independent filmmakers. They just kind of plug
the gaps where they can and before long, I'm sure
you'll be dying to see the Coddling of the American Mind,
and you should.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It's a good movie. But Ted Corney, thanks for joining
the show.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You know I love the work you do, and you're
also very thoughtful and cautious about you don't have a
million movies you make. You know a few, you know
a few every few years, and they're very concise, and
they're very targeted, and they're very important. But obviously, when
the subject matter comes at you and you both say
we need to make this into a movie, it's considerable.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So talk.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Maybe we'll start there. Obviously, this book is fascinating. Obviously
the subject matter is a little scary, certainly intriguing, certainly
something we should know about. But what was the kind
of the impetus of the spark that went from Hey,
isn't that interesting too?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
This needs to be our next movie.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having us Christian.
It's always great to talk with you. Yeah. So we
read the book when it came out, and about two
thirds of the way through the book, there's a very
bracing tale where a man talks about almost committing suicide
and he goes into great detail about how he almost
(12:19):
did that. That man was Greg Lukianov, one of the
authors of the book, also happens to be a friend
of ours, and your fans may know him from Fire
The Foundation for Individual Visual Rights and Expression, where he's
the CEO and president, and so Courtney and I were
thinking to ourselves, you know, my goodness, if someone like
(12:42):
Greg who seems to have his act together, it was
really struggling with demons like this, and we you know,
his friends didn't even know about it. This is probably
a bigger deal. Probably happens more often where we have
this perception of people who seemingly have their act together,
seemingly or happy, but there's something darker going on behind
(13:04):
the scenes. That was a big issue. And then another
issue lives with us. It's our ten year old son
and he's a jen Alpha, as we recently realized, and
so we had, on the one hand too, one very
personal reason with Greg and another very personal reason with
our son, because although the book and the movie focuses
(13:27):
most directly on gen Z, this is a problem that's
going to be devil all generations, including the next one
that's our son's generation. So it's really crucial that we
turn things around for gen Z and for the next
generation as well.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I thought a lot about my extended family as I
was watching the film, and I thought, wow, this is interesting.
I actually want to share it with another family member
and make sure that they see it as well, because
it is important. Courtney, go ahead, you think you're gonna
jump in.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Oh well yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Just to piggyback off of what Ted was saying, talking,
We've known Greg Lokiana for a long time, and all
the incredible work he does with college students in college
campuses mainly focused on free speech. But then when he
really shifted his work into something that was so personal
to him, his own mental health crisis, his own brush
(14:17):
with near suicide, and what saved him and pulled him
out of that incredible darkness was cognitive behavioral therapy, which
really forced him to examine his own brain. Why does
my brain go into these thought cycles? Why does my
brain keep telling me these things that if I really
put on trial, aren't true. And a lot of people
(14:38):
do that. We all do that.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
That's not just gen Z, that's everybody.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
And the trick to not let it overcome you and
to defeat you is to understand it more. And so
he really started to focus on himself. But then he
saw these young people doing exactly what he was doing
as a man in his thirties. The way they were thinking,
the cognitive dissonance and catastrophizing and us versus them and
(15:07):
thinking the world's against me, or I'm a bad person
because something didn't go right. All these things that are
very normal that don't necessarily mean that they're true. And
he said, I need to talk about what's happening on
college campus because the rates of suicide and depression among
that generation are staggeringly high.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
And the good news is it's preventable.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
We can pull these young people out of it, and
we can hopefully protect our sense generation and hopefully many
generations just teaching them these really important life skills and
mind skills.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You know, the heart of the film to me are
the young people who share their stories. They are all remarkable.
They're such lovely human beings. I just by heartbreaks for
each one of them. They're so eloquent. Obviously, that's not
easy to find those kinds students who could be so
open and honest and raw. Was that one of the
bigger challenges of the film. And how did you how
did you get these kids, because they really are it's
(16:07):
just amazing.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
Yeah, I'm so glad you had that reaction, Christian. That's
that's really what we find the reaction to be among
so many viewers. Yeah, and it was very much a
challenge to find students like that. There's no uh, you know,
predetermined pathway to find someone like Sayed or Kimmy or
(16:30):
Arion or or Lucy or Anna, and so it required
a lot of hard work, uh and and some amount
of luck too. You just keep digging and digging and digging,
and once you find somebody like a Sayeed or or
an Arion, you know that you want to ask them
(16:51):
to be in your movie. And it's just so crucial because,
as you saw, what's going on in college campuses right
now is a travesty. And if they were giving out
a drug that made people miserable, there would be massive lawsuits.
But it's not a drug. It's like you're signing up,
you're paying a lot of money to get like the
worst therapist in the world for four to seven years.
(17:14):
And you can see it in someone like Lucy or
someone like Kimmy. These are for the folks who haven't
seen the movie. These were people who are very well
adjusted before going to college. In Kimmy's case, she was
an immigrant from Africa, came to America, loved it, but
it was great. And then about six months into college,
she thinks, you know, not only is America the worst
(17:36):
place ever, but she's miserable. She goes through all the
you know, just the kind of mental turmoil you wouldn't
you wouldn't hope on anyone. And it's, as Courtney said,
it's preventable. And finally we're starting to see some light
shone on what's going on in college campuses. Although I
got to say, for all the bluster about how bad
(17:58):
college it is, you don't hear a whole lot about microaggressions,
for instance, really the specific things that are going on.
So even if DEI is all deleted tomorrow, what's to
stop these professors from teaching microaggression you know, therapy quote
unquote or microaggression training tomorrow. It's a very twisted way
(18:19):
to view the world, and it makes everybody miserable, not
just the white and conservative kids. What we show in
our movie is that DEI and this twisted worldview hurts
the black, brown, and disabled students that are supposedly the
ones who are supposed to be help the most by
all this. So where does that leave this grand you know,
creation that the university has given us. If it doesn't
(18:42):
even help those people. If it turns them into miserable people,
then then why are we doing this?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, I think one of the most stirring parts of
the film, one of these students you interview was so
desponded over President Trump's election in twenty sixteen. I mean,
she just thought that her life would be over in
some capacity. And I I mean, I without getting too personal,
I mean I look at my Facebook feed today and
I see a lot of friends who I care for dearly,
(19:08):
who are left of center. And it's like she wrote,
those that wrote their Facebook Listen, Trump is blustery, and
he's flawed, and he's got all these big character skills
and deficits and I don't I don't know acknowledge all
of that, but I don't think we're all going away tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And yet there's this sense of doom and gloom.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I mean, did you have any thought that this what
you're drilling down into would have sort of a larger
context in.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
The I guess in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Yeah, I mean that when we made we were making it,
we couldn't have predicted that Trump would return to the
White House. So so yeah, as you point out, Kimmy's
Jimmy's struggles are very very timely again today with the
kind of people that you encounter on social media, and
we certainly see the same thing. And so yeah, it's
(20:00):
just it's just so crucial to to have people realize
that this is something that's that's beyond any one political moment.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
And frankly, you know, we've seen the the impact that
the film has had on college campuses. You know, we've
been invited to Harvard, Princeton, Cornell U, c l a
USC places where films like this perspectives like we have
really aren't welcome, shall we say? And and and we've said, uh,
(20:31):
we've we've had tremendous response from from students, from professors.
I mean, some professors give us pushback, but we welcome that.
The students themselves have been fantastic, and they they tell
us things in anonymous questionnaires like you know, I'm stronger
than I was told we need to tell kids more
about this. They speak to how truthful and honest the
(20:55):
movie is and how it reflects their their experience in
the larger world. So this is a story that has
staying power, and it's a story that we've found Can Can.
It's not just about preaching to the converted, although if
you already don't like DEI, I think this will be
a good movie for you. But it's it's a way
(21:16):
in our space. We don't see a whole lot of
this where people are so often so eager just to
preach to the converted. But if we really want to
make progress, if we really want to make the world better,
we can't just do that. We've got to engage with
people who don't see things the way that we do.
And we're proud to say that we've done that with
this movie. And it's been amplified by people who you know,
(21:39):
are inclined to agree us with us, like Elon Musk
and Doctor Drew. But also you know the Today Show.
The Today Show publicized it with an interview Newsweek. All
these outlets that would usually scorn a movie with this
point of view have have been very receptive to it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Corney, I want to drill down into the teachers, the
professors who are sharing some of these views microaggression, sort
of the victim mentality. I'm going to be generous and
assume that they mean well, they think that this is
the best path forward. Have you seen any examples of
professors maybe questioning what they've been doing through exposing your
(22:19):
film to different campuses. I'm kind of curious from that perspective. Again,
I don't want to demonize these people. I think they
want the best.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I hope. What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Yeah, Well, one of our campus screenings that was hosted
by a professor who's a huge fan of the book
and of the film and invited us out there, promoted
it the screening on the campus screening very much and
was expecting about two hundred people to show up a
combination of students, professors, and administrators.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
And about fifteen or twenty.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
People showed up, and he was pretty convinced that our
posters were torn down from the student center walls and
that that it was professors who were spreading the word
that don't go see this movie.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
So that's one example of.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Professor you can say I think we were fine and
saying that was Cortnell and we can say that, oh yeah, yeah,
and and they so they had signed up to attend
and then en mass Uh didn't attend, and then our
posters were torn down and so yeah, as Courtney pointed out,
(23:31):
our host thinks that it was a coordinated effort and
it's just sort of stupid. This is supposedly and these
were professors and administrative staff who were kind of in
the counseling departments and things like that. So the very
people that we hope to reach the most, and what
are they modeling. They're modeling that if you disagree with somebody,
you you do what you pretend like you're going to
(23:53):
hear them out, but then then boycott, I mean, and
then tear down their posters.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
And we have friends who are and have been working
in academia for decades who watched the film and said,
you know, I don't see so much of that on
my college campus. I don't see so much of that divisiveness.
So but you know, that's just that could just be
our campus. So we've had a very mixed response from
educators and administrators and professors. As Ted mentioned, we're very
(24:20):
happy to say that overwhelmingly, the students, the target audience
will really it's the students in that generation and their
parents who are the people who are really trying to
reach with the film, have been very moved and very
inspired and connected to it in a very positive way.
You know, there used to be a time where college
(24:41):
was a place you went to be challenged. You you
wanted to have your beliefs in your point of view,
challenged and pushed so that you could show your stuff,
show what you know, show what you think and why.
And it just feels like so often these days people
are very afraid to really speak their minds said, who's
(25:04):
one of our interview subjects speaks very well to this.
He immigrated to the United States just to go to
an American university from Africa, and he was so excited,
and he had these visions of a dead poets society
and Robin Williams standing on a desk and giving speeches.
And he got here and it was like the needle
(25:25):
scratched the vinyl. No, choose your activism, choose your team.
If you say the wrong thing, you won't have friends.
If you say the right things, you will. And we'll
tell you which is wrong and which is right. And
he very sadly said in the film that he got
to a point where he was two people. He was
thinking one thing in the brain of said, but the
(25:48):
person said was saying something else.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And that's very dissonant.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I mean, that would drive anybody crazy, right, But that's
really common, and that's not.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Going to make people happy.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
That's not going to help people learn and know more
about each other. Jonathan Hyde has a wonderful anecdote. He says,
you know, we're all in this together, and our brains
grow and get stronger when we encounter other brains. And
if you protect your brain from things that are upsetting
or difficult or different, it's like you're shooting yourself in
(26:20):
the brain because you're not letting yourself evolve. You're not
exposing yourself to things that will make you a stronger
and more evolved person as you grow into an adult.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, Adam Carolla often says, I want my kids to
have grit, be able to persevere through tough situations. And now,
you guys work in the intipitive film realm. It's never easy.
It's a struggle to make get the money, all the financing, distribution,
everything's tough.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I totally get that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
But were there any unique challenges to making this film
or was.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It sort of just the usual.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Hey, we don't have Sony behind us or wonder Brothers
bootstrap it as you go, because I know that you
guys do that so well.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Yeah, thank you, Yeah, we did. COVID was tough. Although
it's funny you mentioned Sony, we actually try. We pitched
it for a major studio I can't say which one
in twenty twenty, which was about the worst time to
pitch a project like this, but it was extremely illuminating.
(27:18):
So when you ask the biggest roadblocks, I mean, we
make Courtney and I make what we call uphill movies,
and everything from raising the money to distributing it to
publicizing it. It's an uphill challenge. If we made if
we had different points of view, it would be downhill movies.
But this was I'll just to give you a brief
(27:41):
flavor of our encounter with the studio. They were interested
enough to take the movie, but had never actually read
the book, seemed to know almost nothing about it, and
then very quickly thought that it was somehow anti BLM.
So this was before we had shot any footage. Yeah,
(28:02):
and they were terrified that and they literally said, all
it would take is one person on Twitter back then
it was still called Twitter to say like, why did
this studio green light this movie right after George Floyd?
And that would apparently create this this It would Torpedo,
not just the project, but it would have blowback to
(28:25):
their corporate partners, and they didn't like the fact that
I was assists white male director. They thought it would
be better they had a different director and to sort
of absorb the inevitable blowback that was going to come.
And now they liked the idea of addressing the gen
Z mental health crisis, but they were just so unhinged
(28:49):
in how and how they saw the world. And we're
I mean, here, we're making a movie. You saw it.
This is to benefit students of every color. Of course,
you know, we had literally shot nothing, so it couldn't
have been anti BLM. This was. It was just such
an episode of the cowardice and conformity that we talked
(29:13):
about so often that still plagues the culture. I mean,
people are talking about the end of woke and all
of this. I hope that's the case. I think that,
but I actually have a more negative take on that.
I think all these ideas are far too ingrained to
be wiped away with executive orders.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Unfortunately, you worked, I think it was twenty fifteen was
can we take a joke? And it was certainly about
as pression as no safe space, as was a couple
of years later. I from my perspective, I do think
I've seen progress in the comedy realm. You know, Tony Hinchcliff,
We've seen roasts come back. You know, Joe Rogan survived
as a pretty significant cancel culture attack, as did Dave Chappelle.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
You guys the experts here, not me.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
What are your thoughts on that looking back at the
film and looking at the culture today.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Yeah, I mean it so on the one hand, I'm
baseline is me negative guy? But I do acknowledge what
you said. So you know, the world is complicated, so
there can be green sprouts, but there's there's still, you know,
a dark overlay to everything. So to take to take
an episode like Chappelle, totally agree with you, Christian, that
(30:24):
was great. Netflix finally showed some spine. They stood up
to the mob. Chappelle survived. Unfortunately, in talking with young comedians,
I think the message that that sends is that look
at what they did to a titan like Chappelle. You
know a lot of people are like, oh, you know,
cancel culture doesn't exist. Look at Chappelle's still rich and famous,
(30:47):
and they are totally missing the point. I don't know
how many times people can miss the point so badly
because it's not someone that is powerful as Chappelle. Of
course he's going to survive. Of course he's still going
to be rich and famous. Well what does it do?
What message does it send to the Chappelles who are eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old. It says, avoid the following topics. It
(31:10):
says you better have the following opinions. Now you don't
have to, but if you want the biggest slice of
the biggest pie, if you want the most fame, and
that's what these people want. I mean, we've been in
the entertainment industry for a lot of years, and people
are driven by ideas. Some people are crazy like us,
and they are driven by ideas, but most people are
just driven by the usual stuff. They want to be famous,
(31:32):
they want to be rich, and so they might kind
of have an inclination to say something out of line,
out of turn. But if they say, if they see
what happens to someone like Dave Chappelle and how he
was almost toppled because of it, they're going to say,
I'm just a little schmo, I'm just starting out. I'm
going to keep my mouth shut. I'm going to go
with the herd.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, and I think there are some comedians who still
forge ahead, but I think they're in the minority, honestly.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Right right, Niche markets, there will always be nich markets.
But again, if you want the biggest slice of the
biggest pie, you have to do something else.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Have the two of you settled on a follow up
project or is it too early for that or I'm
kind of curious. I know you're this is coming to colleges,
it's available now. We'll share that in the moment, but
anything that's sort of on next on the horizon.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
Not in relation to the caddling of the American mind.
Our next project will actually be a narrative film, which,
like Little Pink House, based on a memoir called Troubled
written by Rob Henderson. It's a best selling book, an
extraordinary story about him growing up in the foster care
system and surviving it, not only surviving it, thriving to
(32:44):
the point where he went to Yale and Cambridge and
now he's practicing in his field and has a very rich,
full life.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
But the road getting.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
There in the foster care system was incredibly difficult and harrowing.
And one of the things we love most about the
book is he survives this crazy ride in the foster
care system and he gets all the way to Yale
and he walks onto campus and he's like kind of
(33:15):
got this, I've made it feeling, and then he looks
around it's like, what's going on with these college cause
he protests the tribal is I mean a lot of
the stuff we talk about in Poddling, and that's one
of the things that we connected with Rob so well
on too. So it was like going from this rough
and humble world into this very elite world that was
(33:37):
almost even more strange and foreign than the world of
the foster care system.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
By the way, quick Plug, like you mentioned, Little Pink
House is a terrific movie. It's one of those films
whenever people approach me and say, I haven't you know,
what do you recommend? Or what's under the radar?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
What what? What have I not seen? I was like,
check out that one.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Because it's thank you, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
One last question. You know, the movie captures of course
the book does as well. That what we're discussing in
this coddling, I guess evolution. It happened fairly quickly. I
don't know if it was twenty twelve to twenty fourteen,
there was a there was a time element there that
it just kind of went on rocket fuel. I think
I know your answer because you're the negative Nelly here.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Is there the chance that could fade as quickly? Is
there any hope there?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Or you think this is the kind of thing once
it's entrenched, it's going to take some blood, sweat and
tears to going to work through it.
Speaker 6 (34:30):
Yeah, I will stick with my negative Nelly.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
So yeah, I mean everybody still has smartphones, everybody still
has social media, everybody still has retweet buttons. The universities,
I think, despite what's going on right now, will continue
to receive something like a half trillion dollars per year
in taxpayer subsidies. So I think that's where a lot
of the problem starts. And unfortunately a lot of the
(34:57):
professors who are replacing the older professors, the younger generation
is even more strident than the than the ones that
they're replacing. So I believe me, Christian. I want to
be optimistic, and and again there are some things to
be optimistic about, but I think the broad strokes is
like we've we've we've really got to focus on this
(35:20):
for the long term. It's not going to be eradicated
with some executive orders. Yeah, this this is It's it's
a long cultural process.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
And I think these these constituencies are so deeply entrenched
and often funded by other people's money, that it's very
hard to to just wipe it away in one election cycle.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, I think to follow the money term comes to mind.
Any last thoughts, Corney.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Uh No, I mean this is Uh, We're just so
appreciative to you to let us spread the word about
coddling of the American mind.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
As Ted said, the caddlingmovie.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Dot com is where people can see it, uh, Prime video,
Apple Tea, Google Play. And it's always just great to
talk with you, Christian and thank you for your support
of us and.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
For our work.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Oh my pleasure. Great stuff. And do you check out
the movie.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I'd have to say, maybe don't watch it alone, watch
it with friends, watch it with family members. I think
I think it's a kind of move that really begs
for a great post film discussion and to kind of
go through some of the meteor topics. And it's you know,
and some as I say movies can be like eat
your vegetables. There's a lot of good information, but this
is a very entertaining, engaging film and I obviously you
guys are a huge part of that. But also these
(36:32):
kids are just so amazing and just I just I
couldn't help just reaching out to them. Obviously I'm a
different demographic and I'm much older than them, but just
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
They just seem to have bright futures ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
But they went through some tough stuff and they were
kind enough to share it. I think that's really important.
So thanks both of you, and I hope you all
come back to Denver at some point.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
We'll get you on a local radio show and spread
the word about all your projects us.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
The character actor of the week is John Carol Lynch. Well,
before we go, I want to give a quick shout
out to the Megan Kelly Show. They were kind enough
to have me back on their program.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I was with link Lauren, who is just hysterical, and
we were talking about snow White, Alec Baldwin, a lot
of pop culture issues. Absolutely had a blast. But let
me tell you the team behind the show top notch professional,
kind and sweet, helpful, just aces all the way. So
you know, Megan Kelly is one of the people I
really trust in the media landscape, and that group is
(37:26):
shrinking and shrinking almost every day. I feel like more
and more influencers are more and more talking heads are
losing their way, or if maybe losing their mind in
the case of a Canis Owens. It's a weird state
of affairs. But I feel like Megan Kelly has really
kept her values on straight. I feel like I can
trust her when she says things. She seems to dig
into topics beyond the surface, and she'll disagree with people
(37:49):
on the right when she needs to disagree with people
on the right, and that's important too. So thank you
Megan Kelly for having me on the show. I hope
I can pop up again with or without the great link, Lauren,
but I appreciate it well. Le's send for the show
this weekend. Thank you to Radio America I having me.
It's part of their great podcast lineup. If you get
a chance to check out Hollywoodintoto dot com. It's my
home base. My website over ten years old now, and
(38:11):
it's like the show. The right take and Entertainment updated
seven days a week because there's no rest for the weary,
even when your host happens to have a cold and
is just struggling to get by.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Which is what's going on right now.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Again, I appreciate your time, appreciate your support, and have
the best week possible.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Doctors Orders
This week in the Hollywood and Total Podcast, I share
my review of Snow White. Yeah These Snow White with
Rachel Zegler, and I'm as shocked as anyone by my reaction.
And we talked to the filmmakers behind the coddling of
the American mind. It is a provocative new documentary that
looks at what's happening in college campuses. It's ugly, but
we just can't look away.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to the Hollywood and Total Podcast. Entertainment news and
reviews without doubt, woke, Hollywood, narrative, free speech, re expression.
Now that's entertainment, and here's your host, Award winning film
critic Christian Toto.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I am contractually obligated to hate Snow White, right, I mean,
I'm a conservative film critic. The movie's been under fire
for about two years now, give or take from people
on the right, comments that Rachel Zegler made, comments from Disney,
Disney saying we can't put dwarfs in the movie. It's
not exactly kosher. And twenty twenty five, there's been so
(01:11):
much said about this movie, and a lot of my
friends in the right of center landscape, from YouTubers to podcasters,
they've been just absolutely attacking the movie for months and
months at a time, so I have to hate it right,
and it's my job. I'm a conservative film correct I
can't give this a rave, but I hadn't seen it yet,
and now that I have, I have to say.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Kind of liked it. That's shocking.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Thought it was charming, not prince charming, just straightforward charming. Yeah,
this update is certainly woke on paper. The snow white
character isn't just front and center. She is the heroine here.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
She must save the day.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
And yes there's a prince like figure who's in the story,
but he really doesn't command much of anything. This is
Rachel Zegler being her Rachel Zegler est, and the third
act of the film really does compromise the original story
to push it in that direction. Again, I can't deny
any of that, but I also can't deny I found
it engaging. I enjoyed Rechel Zegler. She's got a lovely
(02:09):
voice and she's a strong presence in the film. I
like the dwarves. Yes there's CGI, and I think they
should have gone with actual little people playing these roles,
but as it stands out that they were perfectly fine,
and I actually thought a subplot where snow White kind
of helps with with Dopey's self esteem. I thought it
was really sweet, and I think a lot of the
movie is.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Sweet and the biggest liar I've ever met.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Now, there's been so much behind the scenes going on here.
There were lots of reshoots apparently. It just can't see
it on screen. It doesn't feel like a movie that's
been fixed in the editing room. And that's to the
credit of all the filmmakers here. Whatever they did, they
made it seem as if this was the original concept,
so I didn't hate it. The musical numbers are perfectly fine.
(02:52):
Some of the supporting performances again good. I liked Gal
Gadatta is the Evil Queen. Even though most of my.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Fellow film critics sir in it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I don't quite get it, but I have to call
it like I see it, and That's what I'm doing.
And you know, I've actually taken some heat on social
media for that. I'm a right of center film critic.
Why am I saying that Snow White is actually pretty good?
A lot of people on Twitter were saying, yeah, I'm
not going to see it. I don't care what you say,
and somewhere a little bit crueler than that for me
daring to like it and listen. I'm a big boy.
(03:21):
I can take the slings and arrows, especially on social media.
That's the way the landscape is.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Because someone is bullying you, and you never.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Let a bully win. But I also don't want to
be that critic, the person who's on the right and
only likes right of center movies or eight political movies.
If I see a left of center film, I have
to automatically say this stinks, no way, avoid.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
It all costs. I just can't do that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But you know, a critic has to do his job
and just call balls and strikes, and that's what I'm
trying to do with the movie. I acknowledge its flaws,
and as a right of center film critic in my
official review at Hollywood intoto dot com, I do lay
out what has been changed, why it's different, and why
it does really overlap with Disney's more woke agenda, which
again has been shrinking in recent months, but is certainly
(04:09):
they are all the same. Given all of that, I
can't maybe get more clicks on YouTube or or even
on iTunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast. By
saying what I'm saying, it sort of goes against my
brand in a way, But again, I gotta be who
I am.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
And be honest with the with the audience.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Now, I think that word of mouth will be rather
good in this movie. I think little girls are going
to adore snow White in the whole story here, and
I think that families will appreciate some of the messages
in it about being kind and decent and open and generous.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
All the things that the Eva Queen is not.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I'm not bad. But having said all that, you know,
I think that's part of the problem we find in
our tribalistic culture, where you have to kind of pick
a side, stay in that side, and be loyal to
that side. But I think often the more honest conversations
happen in the middle. And again I am right of
center on abashedly so. But I'm not going to fall
(05:01):
for that time after time after time. Got to be honest,
got to be straightforward, that's what matters. Having said all that,
I think this movie will underperform at the box office.
It's doing it as we.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Speak, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I think that the film will probably have legs. Most
kids' films do at the box office. Parents are always
looking for an excuse to kind of shove the kids
away for just two hours so they can actually get
the work done, you know, clean the laundry and do
the dishes, and just do the shopping and all the
little chores that pop up during the day. And if
the kid's gonna have a gay old time while that's happening,
(05:34):
all the better. But you know, in a way, this
movie and the kerfuffle around it reminded me a little
bit of the Lady Ghostbusters from twenty sixteen. So Hebby,
I've been doing a lot of thinking, and congratulations, I've
decided to become a Ghostbuster now. That movie was coming out,
hadn't even hit theaters yet, and it became a culture
war touchstone. They were people who were saying, you must
(05:55):
like the movie. To not like the movie meant you
were some sort of a bigot. There are major journalistic
institutions telling us that if you didn't like the Ghostbusters
trailer and it was awful, you were a misogynist. That
actually happened, And I feel like, in a way, that
culture war battle is a.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Bookend to this one.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
We've got snow White, You've got Disney. We've got Disney
backpedaling on its heels for a movie, for a live
action adaptation of one of the most beloved animated films.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Something's changing in the culture.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know, maybe back in twenty sixteen, if Disney had
come out with Snow White, then they would have stood tall.
They would have resisted any sort of right of center
criticisms about the movie. They would have just gone straight ahead.
But not today. We're seeing Disney backpedal on a lot
of fronts. The recent Mauana two and Inside Out too,
they were completely apolitical. The recent Winn or Lose TV
(06:48):
show that's on Disney Plus took out a trans character,
and now there's a Christian character in the story.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
I don't know if he or she was.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Originally planned, but isn't that a sea change as well?
But I think Disney's learn the hard way. If you
insult your audience, if you take an iconic brand and
you trash it, whether directly or indirectly, or maybe directly
when it comes to Rachel Zeggler, there are consequences. Just
be kind, be positive, be forthcoming, say we're looking forward
(07:16):
to more people seeing.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Snow White and leave it at that.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I think Rachel Zegler, at least I hope she's learned
some valuable lessons about this process. Doesn't mean you want
to clamp down in her free speech, not at all.
But if you're an actress trying to promote the film,
don't trash the source material. Don't attack half the country
from voting the way they did. I think we'll look
back at this whole Snow White debacle with a lot
of lessons learned. But the end of the day, I
found the movie was pretty good, and I think that's
(07:42):
ultimately what film audiences want. So if you see it,
if you dislike it, if you love it, please let
me know in the comments section, or just go to
Hollywood intoto dot com. You can weigh in on my
official review there see what you think. But the bottom
line is one that we've learned for quite some time.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Go broke.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It's a maxim as old as time itself, or.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
At least from twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Adam Krola has one thing in mind when he talks
about his children.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
He's got twins.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
They're roughly eighteen or so years old now, entering adulthood,
he wants them to have grit.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
They can handle anything they've got.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Not fame, not fortune, but grit. Now, we all want
to protect our children. We all want to kind of
make sure they don't get bumps and bruises, they don't
get insulted on the playground, they don't get pressure from
outside forces. We want their lives to be as smooth
as possible. But having said all that, when they do
experience hardships, when they do have bullies at school or
(08:51):
find some other situations where they're not treated, well, they
have to process that too. And going through those obstacles
and those bumps in the road, well it gives them
writ Now, the movie I'm about to talk about is
the opposite of that. Sometimes people and children are coddled,
and The Coddling of the American Mind explores that directly,
and it's pretty chilling. I was full of self confidence
(09:14):
when I was eighteen, but while I was in college
that disintegrated.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Mental health among gen Z's a travesty.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
Almost every other person I know has some sort of
mental health problem.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
From the DO, documentary looks at college life and how
college institutions are warping the minds of young people. It's
not about politics per se, but it is about microaggressions.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
But even I'm offended by this stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
It is about white supremacy. It is about saying you're
not equal. You're living in a country that is going
to treat you as a less than equal person, and
you have to behave accordingly. A matter of fact, you
might as well give up because the microaggression they're all
around us. It is a fascinating look at culture, and
it's through the eyes of several students who didn't know
what to expect when they came to school, except they
(10:01):
really wanted to have great debates and encounter new ideas.
But what they learned is there wasn't much room for debate.
They couldn't say what they wanted to say, and the
ideas in question, well, you had to follow a certain
path and deviate from their path. Now, the movie itself
is based on a book from the about twenty fifteen
by Jonathan Height and Greg Lukianov, and it explores this
(10:24):
topic in great detail. Now that, of course, the movie
can't do go into his depth as that book does,
but it does plumb this material in fascinating ways. So
I wanted to have the filmmakers on the show, and
it turns out I've gotten to know them a little
bit over the years. It's Ted and Courtney Ballacker, and
if you don't know the names, you probably know their
movies Little Pink House, which was sensational from a few
(10:44):
years ago, and also Can We Take a Joke which
came out just before the Wolk Revolution was really hitting
its stride. That was the movie about, you know, people
being upset and offended by jokes and what consequences they
were for comedians who told those wrong jokes. With The
Coddling of the American Mind is a terrific movie, an
important movie, I'd say, so. Hope you enjoyed my conversation
(11:04):
with Ted and Courtney Blacker. Talented filmmakers making movies that
should be out in the marketplace but often aren't. So
wh't you love independent filmmakers. They just kind of plug
the gaps where they can and before long, I'm sure
you'll be dying to see the Coddling of the American Mind,
and you should.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
It's a good movie. But Ted Corney, thanks for joining
the show.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
You know I love the work you do, and you're
also very thoughtful and cautious about you don't have a
million movies you make. You know a few, you know
a few every few years, and they're very concise, and
they're very targeted, and they're very important. But obviously, when
the subject matter comes at you and you both say
we need to make this into a movie, it's considerable.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So talk.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Maybe we'll start there. Obviously, this book is fascinating. Obviously
the subject matter is a little scary, certainly intriguing, certainly
something we should know about. But what was the kind
of the impetus of the spark that went from Hey,
isn't that interesting too?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
This needs to be our next movie.
Speaker 6 (11:59):
Yeah. Well, first of all, thanks for having us Christian.
It's always great to talk with you. Yeah. So we
read the book when it came out, and about two
thirds of the way through the book, there's a very
bracing tale where a man talks about almost committing suicide
and he goes into great detail about how he almost
(12:19):
did that. That man was Greg Lukianov, one of the
authors of the book, also happens to be a friend
of ours, and your fans may know him from Fire
The Foundation for Individual Visual Rights and Expression, where he's
the CEO and president, and so Courtney and I were
thinking to ourselves, you know, my goodness, if someone like
(12:42):
Greg who seems to have his act together, it was
really struggling with demons like this, and we you know,
his friends didn't even know about it. This is probably
a bigger deal. Probably happens more often where we have
this perception of people who seemingly have their act together,
seemingly or happy, but there's something darker going on behind
(13:04):
the scenes. That was a big issue. And then another
issue lives with us. It's our ten year old son
and he's a jen Alpha, as we recently realized, and
so we had, on the one hand too, one very
personal reason with Greg and another very personal reason with
our son, because although the book and the movie focuses
(13:27):
most directly on gen Z, this is a problem that's
going to be devil all generations, including the next one
that's our son's generation. So it's really crucial that we
turn things around for gen Z and for the next
generation as well.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That's a great point.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I thought a lot about my extended family as I
was watching the film, and I thought, wow, this is interesting.
I actually want to share it with another family member
and make sure that they see it as well, because
it is important. Courtney, go ahead, you think you're gonna
jump in.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Oh well yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:57):
Just to piggyback off of what Ted was saying, talking,
We've known Greg Lokiana for a long time, and all
the incredible work he does with college students in college
campuses mainly focused on free speech. But then when he
really shifted his work into something that was so personal
to him, his own mental health crisis, his own brush
(14:17):
with near suicide, and what saved him and pulled him
out of that incredible darkness was cognitive behavioral therapy, which
really forced him to examine his own brain. Why does
my brain go into these thought cycles? Why does my
brain keep telling me these things that if I really
put on trial, aren't true. And a lot of people
(14:38):
do that. We all do that.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
That's not just gen Z, that's everybody.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
And the trick to not let it overcome you and
to defeat you is to understand it more. And so
he really started to focus on himself. But then he
saw these young people doing exactly what he was doing
as a man in his thirties. The way they were thinking,
the cognitive dissonance and catastrophizing and us versus them and
(15:07):
thinking the world's against me, or I'm a bad person
because something didn't go right. All these things that are
very normal that don't necessarily mean that they're true. And
he said, I need to talk about what's happening on
college campus because the rates of suicide and depression among
that generation are staggeringly high.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
And the good news is it's preventable.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
We can pull these young people out of it, and
we can hopefully protect our sense generation and hopefully many
generations just teaching them these really important life skills and
mind skills.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You know, the heart of the film to me are
the young people who share their stories. They are all remarkable.
They're such lovely human beings. I just by heartbreaks for
each one of them. They're so eloquent. Obviously, that's not
easy to find those kinds students who could be so
open and honest and raw. Was that one of the
bigger challenges of the film. And how did you how
did you get these kids, because they really are it's
(16:07):
just amazing.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
Yeah, I'm so glad you had that reaction, Christian. That's
that's really what we find the reaction to be among
so many viewers. Yeah, and it was very much a
challenge to find students like that. There's no uh, you know,
predetermined pathway to find someone like Sayed or Kimmy or
(16:30):
Arion or or Lucy or Anna, and so it required
a lot of hard work, uh and and some amount
of luck too. You just keep digging and digging and digging,
and once you find somebody like a Sayeed or or
an Arion, you know that you want to ask them
(16:51):
to be in your movie. And it's just so crucial because,
as you saw, what's going on in college campuses right
now is a travesty. And if they were giving out
a drug that made people miserable, there would be massive lawsuits.
But it's not a drug. It's like you're signing up,
you're paying a lot of money to get like the
worst therapist in the world for four to seven years.
(17:14):
And you can see it in someone like Lucy or
someone like Kimmy. These are for the folks who haven't
seen the movie. These were people who are very well
adjusted before going to college. In Kimmy's case, she was
an immigrant from Africa, came to America, loved it, but
it was great. And then about six months into college,
she thinks, you know, not only is America the worst
(17:36):
place ever, but she's miserable. She goes through all the
you know, just the kind of mental turmoil you wouldn't
you wouldn't hope on anyone. And it's, as Courtney said,
it's preventable. And finally we're starting to see some light
shone on what's going on in college campuses. Although I
got to say, for all the bluster about how bad
(17:58):
college it is, you don't hear a whole lot about microaggressions,
for instance, really the specific things that are going on.
So even if DEI is all deleted tomorrow, what's to
stop these professors from teaching microaggression you know, therapy quote
unquote or microaggression training tomorrow. It's a very twisted way
(18:19):
to view the world, and it makes everybody miserable, not
just the white and conservative kids. What we show in
our movie is that DEI and this twisted worldview hurts
the black, brown, and disabled students that are supposedly the
ones who are supposed to be help the most by
all this. So where does that leave this grand you know,
creation that the university has given us. If it doesn't
(18:42):
even help those people. If it turns them into miserable people,
then then why are we doing this?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, I think one of the most stirring parts of
the film, one of these students you interview was so
desponded over President Trump's election in twenty sixteen. I mean,
she just thought that her life would be over in
some capacity. And I I mean, I without getting too personal,
I mean I look at my Facebook feed today and
I see a lot of friends who I care for dearly,
(19:08):
who are left of center. And it's like she wrote,
those that wrote their Facebook Listen, Trump is blustery, and
he's flawed, and he's got all these big character skills
and deficits and I don't I don't know acknowledge all
of that, but I don't think we're all going away tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
And yet there's this sense of doom and gloom.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
I mean, did you have any thought that this what
you're drilling down into would have sort of a larger
context in.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
The I guess in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 6 (19:37):
Yeah, I mean that when we made we were making it,
we couldn't have predicted that Trump would return to the
White House. So so yeah, as you point out, Kimmy's
Jimmy's struggles are very very timely again today with the
kind of people that you encounter on social media, and
we certainly see the same thing. And so yeah, it's
(20:00):
just it's just so crucial to to have people realize
that this is something that's that's beyond any one political moment.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
And frankly, you know, we've seen the the impact that
the film has had on college campuses. You know, we've
been invited to Harvard, Princeton, Cornell U, c l a
USC places where films like this perspectives like we have
really aren't welcome, shall we say? And and and we've said, uh,
(20:31):
we've we've had tremendous response from from students, from professors.
I mean, some professors give us pushback, but we welcome that.
The students themselves have been fantastic, and they they tell
us things in anonymous questionnaires like you know, I'm stronger
than I was told we need to tell kids more
about this. They speak to how truthful and honest the
(20:55):
movie is and how it reflects their their experience in
the larger world. So this is a story that has
staying power, and it's a story that we've found Can Can.
It's not just about preaching to the converted, although if
you already don't like DEI, I think this will be
a good movie for you. But it's it's a way
(21:16):
in our space. We don't see a whole lot of
this where people are so often so eager just to
preach to the converted. But if we really want to
make progress, if we really want to make the world better,
we can't just do that. We've got to engage with
people who don't see things the way that we do.
And we're proud to say that we've done that with
this movie. And it's been amplified by people who you know,
(21:39):
are inclined to agree us with us, like Elon Musk
and Doctor Drew. But also you know the Today Show.
The Today Show publicized it with an interview Newsweek. All
these outlets that would usually scorn a movie with this
point of view have have been very receptive to it.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Corney, I want to drill down into the teachers, the
professors who are sharing some of these views microaggression, sort
of the victim mentality. I'm going to be generous and
assume that they mean well, they think that this is
the best path forward. Have you seen any examples of
professors maybe questioning what they've been doing through exposing your
(22:19):
film to different campuses. I'm kind of curious from that perspective. Again,
I don't want to demonize these people. I think they
want the best.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I hope. What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 5 (22:30):
Yeah, Well, one of our campus screenings that was hosted
by a professor who's a huge fan of the book
and of the film and invited us out there, promoted
it the screening on the campus screening very much and
was expecting about two hundred people to show up a
combination of students, professors, and administrators.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
And about fifteen or twenty.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
People showed up, and he was pretty convinced that our
posters were torn down from the student center walls and
that that it was professors who were spreading the word
that don't go see this movie.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
So that's one example of.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Professor you can say I think we were fine and
saying that was Cortnell and we can say that, oh yeah, yeah,
and and they so they had signed up to attend
and then en mass Uh didn't attend, and then our
posters were torn down and so yeah, as Courtney pointed out,
(23:31):
our host thinks that it was a coordinated effort and
it's just sort of stupid. This is supposedly and these
were professors and administrative staff who were kind of in
the counseling departments and things like that. So the very
people that we hope to reach the most, and what
are they modeling. They're modeling that if you disagree with somebody,
you you do what you pretend like you're going to
(23:53):
hear them out, but then then boycott, I mean, and
then tear down their posters.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
And we have friends who are and have been working
in academia for decades who watched the film and said,
you know, I don't see so much of that on
my college campus. I don't see so much of that divisiveness.
So but you know, that's just that could just be
our campus. So we've had a very mixed response from
educators and administrators and professors. As Ted mentioned, we're very
(24:20):
happy to say that overwhelmingly, the students, the target audience
will really it's the students in that generation and their
parents who are the people who are really trying to
reach with the film, have been very moved and very
inspired and connected to it in a very positive way.
You know, there used to be a time where college
(24:41):
was a place you went to be challenged. You you
wanted to have your beliefs in your point of view,
challenged and pushed so that you could show your stuff,
show what you know, show what you think and why.
And it just feels like so often these days people
are very afraid to really speak their minds said, who's
(25:04):
one of our interview subjects speaks very well to this.
He immigrated to the United States just to go to
an American university from Africa, and he was so excited,
and he had these visions of a dead poets society
and Robin Williams standing on a desk and giving speeches.
And he got here and it was like the needle
(25:25):
scratched the vinyl. No, choose your activism, choose your team.
If you say the wrong thing, you won't have friends.
If you say the right things, you will. And we'll
tell you which is wrong and which is right. And
he very sadly said in the film that he got
to a point where he was two people. He was
thinking one thing in the brain of said, but the
(25:48):
person said was saying something else.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
And that's very dissonant.
Speaker 5 (25:52):
I mean, that would drive anybody crazy, right, But that's
really common, and that's not.
Speaker 4 (25:57):
Going to make people happy.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
That's not going to help people learn and know more
about each other. Jonathan Hyde has a wonderful anecdote. He says,
you know, we're all in this together, and our brains
grow and get stronger when we encounter other brains. And
if you protect your brain from things that are upsetting
or difficult or different, it's like you're shooting yourself in
(26:20):
the brain because you're not letting yourself evolve. You're not
exposing yourself to things that will make you a stronger
and more evolved person as you grow into an adult.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, Adam Carolla often says, I want my kids to
have grit, be able to persevere through tough situations. And now,
you guys work in the intipitive film realm. It's never easy.
It's a struggle to make get the money, all the financing, distribution,
everything's tough.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I totally get that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
But were there any unique challenges to making this film
or was.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It sort of just the usual.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Hey, we don't have Sony behind us or wonder Brothers
bootstrap it as you go, because I know that you
guys do that so well.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Yeah, thank you, Yeah, we did. COVID was tough. Although
it's funny you mentioned Sony, we actually try. We pitched
it for a major studio I can't say which one
in twenty twenty, which was about the worst time to
pitch a project like this, but it was extremely illuminating.
(27:18):
So when you ask the biggest roadblocks, I mean, we
make Courtney and I make what we call uphill movies,
and everything from raising the money to distributing it to
publicizing it. It's an uphill challenge. If we made if
we had different points of view, it would be downhill movies.
But this was I'll just to give you a brief
(27:41):
flavor of our encounter with the studio. They were interested
enough to take the movie, but had never actually read
the book, seemed to know almost nothing about it, and
then very quickly thought that it was somehow anti BLM.
So this was before we had shot any footage. Yeah,
(28:02):
and they were terrified that and they literally said, all
it would take is one person on Twitter back then
it was still called Twitter to say like, why did
this studio green light this movie right after George Floyd?
And that would apparently create this this It would Torpedo,
not just the project, but it would have blowback to
(28:25):
their corporate partners, and they didn't like the fact that
I was assists white male director. They thought it would
be better they had a different director and to sort
of absorb the inevitable blowback that was going to come.
And now they liked the idea of addressing the gen
Z mental health crisis, but they were just so unhinged
(28:49):
in how and how they saw the world. And we're
I mean, here, we're making a movie. You saw it.
This is to benefit students of every color. Of course,
you know, we had literally shot nothing, so it couldn't
have been anti BLM. This was. It was just such
an episode of the cowardice and conformity that we talked
(29:13):
about so often that still plagues the culture. I mean,
people are talking about the end of woke and all
of this. I hope that's the case. I think that,
but I actually have a more negative take on that.
I think all these ideas are far too ingrained to
be wiped away with executive orders.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Unfortunately, you worked, I think it was twenty fifteen was
can we take a joke? And it was certainly about
as pression as no safe space, as was a couple
of years later. I from my perspective, I do think
I've seen progress in the comedy realm. You know, Tony Hinchcliff,
We've seen roasts come back. You know, Joe Rogan survived
as a pretty significant cancel culture attack, as did Dave Chappelle.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
You guys the experts here, not me.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
What are your thoughts on that looking back at the
film and looking at the culture today.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Yeah, I mean it so on the one hand, I'm
baseline is me negative guy? But I do acknowledge what
you said. So you know, the world is complicated, so
there can be green sprouts, but there's there's still, you know,
a dark overlay to everything. So to take to take
an episode like Chappelle, totally agree with you, Christian, that
(30:24):
was great. Netflix finally showed some spine. They stood up
to the mob. Chappelle survived. Unfortunately, in talking with young comedians,
I think the message that that sends is that look
at what they did to a titan like Chappelle. You
know a lot of people are like, oh, you know,
cancel culture doesn't exist. Look at Chappelle's still rich and famous,
(30:47):
and they are totally missing the point. I don't know
how many times people can miss the point so badly
because it's not someone that is powerful as Chappelle. Of
course he's going to survive. Of course he's still going
to be rich and famous. Well what does it do?
What message does it send to the Chappelles who are eighteen, nineteen,
twenty years old. It says, avoid the following topics. It
(31:10):
says you better have the following opinions. Now you don't
have to, but if you want the biggest slice of
the biggest pie, if you want the most fame, and
that's what these people want. I mean, we've been in
the entertainment industry for a lot of years, and people
are driven by ideas. Some people are crazy like us,
and they are driven by ideas, but most people are
just driven by the usual stuff. They want to be famous,
(31:32):
they want to be rich, and so they might kind
of have an inclination to say something out of line,
out of turn. But if they say, if they see
what happens to someone like Dave Chappelle and how he
was almost toppled because of it, they're going to say,
I'm just a little schmo, I'm just starting out. I'm
going to keep my mouth shut. I'm going to go
with the herd.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Yeah, and I think there are some comedians who still
forge ahead, but I think they're in the minority, honestly.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
Right right, Niche markets, there will always be nich markets.
But again, if you want the biggest slice of the
biggest pie, you have to do something else.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Have the two of you settled on a follow up
project or is it too early for that or I'm
kind of curious. I know you're this is coming to colleges,
it's available now. We'll share that in the moment, but
anything that's sort of on next on the horizon.
Speaker 5 (32:20):
Not in relation to the caddling of the American mind.
Our next project will actually be a narrative film, which,
like Little Pink House, based on a memoir called Troubled
written by Rob Henderson. It's a best selling book, an
extraordinary story about him growing up in the foster care
system and surviving it, not only surviving it, thriving to
(32:44):
the point where he went to Yale and Cambridge and
now he's practicing in his field and has a very rich,
full life.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
But the road getting.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
There in the foster care system was incredibly difficult and harrowing.
And one of the things we love most about the
book is he survives this crazy ride in the foster
care system and he gets all the way to Yale
and he walks onto campus and he's like kind of
(33:15):
got this, I've made it feeling, and then he looks
around it's like, what's going on with these college cause
he protests the tribal is I mean a lot of
the stuff we talk about in Poddling, and that's one
of the things that we connected with Rob so well
on too. So it was like going from this rough
and humble world into this very elite world that was
(33:37):
almost even more strange and foreign than the world of
the foster care system.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
By the way, quick Plug, like you mentioned, Little Pink
House is a terrific movie. It's one of those films
whenever people approach me and say, I haven't you know,
what do you recommend? Or what's under the radar?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
What what? What have I not seen? I was like,
check out that one.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Because it's thank you, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
One last question. You know, the movie captures of course
the book does as well. That what we're discussing in
this coddling, I guess evolution. It happened fairly quickly. I
don't know if it was twenty twelve to twenty fourteen,
there was a there was a time element there that
it just kind of went on rocket fuel. I think
I know your answer because you're the negative Nelly here.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Is there the chance that could fade as quickly? Is
there any hope there?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Or you think this is the kind of thing once
it's entrenched, it's going to take some blood, sweat and
tears to going to work through it.
Speaker 6 (34:30):
Yeah, I will stick with my negative Nelly.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
So yeah, I mean everybody still has smartphones, everybody still
has social media, everybody still has retweet buttons. The universities,
I think, despite what's going on right now, will continue
to receive something like a half trillion dollars per year
in taxpayer subsidies. So I think that's where a lot
of the problem starts. And unfortunately a lot of the
(34:57):
professors who are replacing the older professors, the younger generation
is even more strident than the than the ones that
they're replacing. So I believe me, Christian. I want to
be optimistic, and and again there are some things to
be optimistic about, but I think the broad strokes is
like we've we've we've really got to focus on this
(35:20):
for the long term. It's not going to be eradicated
with some executive orders. Yeah, this this is It's it's
a long cultural process.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
And I think these these constituencies are so deeply entrenched
and often funded by other people's money, that it's very
hard to to just wipe it away in one election cycle.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, I think to follow the money term comes to mind.
Any last thoughts, Corney.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
Uh No, I mean this is Uh, We're just so
appreciative to you to let us spread the word about
coddling of the American mind.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
As Ted said, the caddlingmovie.
Speaker 5 (35:56):
Dot com is where people can see it, uh, Prime video,
Apple Tea, Google Play. And it's always just great to
talk with you, Christian and thank you for your support
of us and.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
For our work.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Oh my pleasure. Great stuff. And do you check out
the movie.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
I'd have to say, maybe don't watch it alone, watch
it with friends, watch it with family members. I think
I think it's a kind of move that really begs
for a great post film discussion and to kind of
go through some of the meteor topics. And it's you know,
and some as I say movies can be like eat
your vegetables. There's a lot of good information, but this
is a very entertaining, engaging film and I obviously you
guys are a huge part of that. But also these
(36:32):
kids are just so amazing and just I just I
couldn't help just reaching out to them. Obviously I'm a
different demographic and I'm much older than them, but just
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
They just seem to have bright futures ahead of them.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
But they went through some tough stuff and they were
kind enough to share it. I think that's really important.
So thanks both of you, and I hope you all
come back to Denver at some point.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
We'll get you on a local radio show and spread
the word about all your projects us.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
The character actor of the week is John Carol Lynch. Well,
before we go, I want to give a quick shout
out to the Megan Kelly Show. They were kind enough
to have me back on their program.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Earlier this week.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
I was with link Lauren, who is just hysterical, and
we were talking about snow White, Alec Baldwin, a lot
of pop culture issues. Absolutely had a blast. But let
me tell you the team behind the show top notch professional,
kind and sweet, helpful, just aces all the way. So
you know, Megan Kelly is one of the people I
really trust in the media landscape, and that group is
(37:26):
shrinking and shrinking almost every day. I feel like more
and more influencers are more and more talking heads are
losing their way, or if maybe losing their mind in
the case of a Canis Owens. It's a weird state
of affairs. But I feel like Megan Kelly has really
kept her values on straight. I feel like I can
trust her when she says things. She seems to dig
into topics beyond the surface, and she'll disagree with people
(37:49):
on the right when she needs to disagree with people
on the right, and that's important too. So thank you
Megan Kelly for having me on the show. I hope
I can pop up again with or without the great link, Lauren,
but I appreciate it well. Le's send for the show
this weekend. Thank you to Radio America I having me.
It's part of their great podcast lineup. If you get
a chance to check out Hollywoodintoto dot com. It's my
home base. My website over ten years old now, and
(38:11):
it's like the show. The right take and Entertainment updated
seven days a week because there's no rest for the weary,
even when your host happens to have a cold and
is just struggling to get by.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Which is what's going on right now.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Again, I appreciate your time, appreciate your support, and have
the best week possible.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Doctors Orders
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!