April 5, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode, we dive into the complex and contradictory approach to free speech taken by rock legend Neil Young. Known for defending free expression in the 2000s, Young’s more recent actions—specifically his attempt to silence Joe Rogan over controversial views on COVID-19—have raised eyebrows. We unpack how his latest comments reflect a growing partisan stance rather than a commitment to open debate. Is Neil Young’s approach to free speech evolving into something less about the exchange of ideas and more about enforcing a specific narrative? We explore this paradox in depth.
Plus, filmmaker Jonathan Bowen joins the show to talk about his indie drama The Comic Shop. The film follows an entrepreneur at a critical crossroads in his professional life, capturing the essence of perseverance and personal growth. Jonathan opens up about the inspiration behind the story and shares how he connected with an Oscar-nominated actor to land a crucial cameo.
Tune in for a fascinating discussion on film, free speech, and the changing tides of public discourse. Don’t miss this thought-provoking episode filled with insights on the intersection of celebrity, politics, and art.
--------------------------
'The Comic Shop' - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22486766/
Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto
Read Hollywood in Toto - https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
Plus, filmmaker Jonathan Bowen joins the show to talk about his indie drama The Comic Shop. The film follows an entrepreneur at a critical crossroads in his professional life, capturing the essence of perseverance and personal growth. Jonathan opens up about the inspiration behind the story and shares how he connected with an Oscar-nominated actor to land a crucial cameo.
Tune in for a fascinating discussion on film, free speech, and the changing tides of public discourse. Don’t miss this thought-provoking episode filled with insights on the intersection of celebrity, politics, and art.
--------------------------
'The Comic Shop' - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt22486766/
Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto
Read Hollywood in Toto - https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on the Hollywood and Total Podcast, we call
out rocker Neil Young because well he deserves to be
called out, and we talked to the filmmaker behind the
Comic Shop. It's a new film about a comic book
illustrator who got detoured along the way and opened up
his own comic book shop. That has his own complications,
but it really is also about someone who just got
(00:20):
sidelined along the way and was able to reconnect with
their original passion. That's important. That's a great story to tell.
We'll find out from the guy who told it.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome to the Hollywood and Total Podcast. Entertainment news and
reviews without the book, Hollywood narrative, free speech, free expression.
Now that's entertainment, and here's your host, Award winning film
critic Costian Toto.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I don't like picking on classic rockers. For one thing,
they made the soundtrack to Our Lives literally. They're also
not getting any younger. I read a story just a
couple of days ago about how The Who's Roger Daltrey
said he's going blind and deaf, and it just absolutely
crushed me. So, I don't know, picking on the older
rock generation just doesn't make sense to me. I try
(01:19):
to stay away as much as possible, but then someone
like Neil Young comes along and I have to kind
of shuttle my plans because he made.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Me do it.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Guilty is charged, you know, when you think about it.
They should have a lot of wisdom to share. They've
been around on this planet for decades. They've lived these colorful,
remarkable lives. They may have loved and lost, they may
have overcome lots of adversity over the years. I pictured,
they've got some great stories to tell and some great
insights into the human condition. And then there's Neil Young. Yeah,
(01:49):
he's an exception to the rule. And that's why I'm
going to single him out on this episode because he
richly deserves it now. Neil Young back in the two
thousands was all about smiting to President George W.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Bush over the Iraq.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
War, and we could agree or disagree. I think Gothua
that particular argument has aged rather well. One of the
things he did in that era was create a freedom
of speech rock tour where he wanted to focus on
the First Amendment. And I think at the time, part
of the thinking in the pop culture landscape was that
people weren't allowed to say what they wanted to say
about the war. About President Bush, there was this sense
(02:25):
that we were told you'd be unpatriotic.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
If you said that I love this country.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Now, I think this is a bit of a strawmend
because a lot of people spoke out at the time.
So but at the same time, anyone who's free speech adjacent,
anyone who wants to raise their fist for free speech,
I'm all for them. So good for Neil Young for
doing that. At the time, maybe it was had some imperfections,
but again, the free speech matters. The First Amendment is
what we care about so deeply here on the show
(02:52):
and hopefully in this country, though Sally there are exceptions,
but that whole free speech mantra really just pushed aside
in recent years by Neil Young. And of course you
may know what I'm talking about. A couple of years ago,
during the pandemic, Neil Young came out and said that
Joe Rogan, he's spreading disinformation, misinformation.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Maybe even malinformation.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
He must go Spotify. If you don't kick him out,
I'm gonna drag my music off that platform. How dare
you give him a voice? And Spotify said, well, we
love you, Neil, but we're not firing Joe Rogan anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Joe Rogan survived.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Neil Young eventually backpedaled, he put his music back on
the platform. He didn't get many people to join or
rally by his side, and he.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Just looked foolish. Here is this free speech guy.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Here is a guy who's dating back to the nineteen
sixties and seventies, a guy who's got hippie DNA to
his core, and what he wanted to do was shut down.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
One of the voices in the culture.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And of course that looked even worse in retrospect when
the government and the media, well, they weren't exactly truth.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Tellers when it came to the pandemics.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So maybe Joe Rogan was wobbly at times, but he
also got some stuff right, and we needed dissenting voices
at the time. It's kind of what free speech is
all about. And he seems to have forgotten that lesson.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Maybe you need a refresher course.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
But more recently, Neil Young is back in the news
because he wants to smite Donald Trump. Now, listen to
the list of celebrities who want to attack President Trump
is long. It's getting longer by the day. And there's
nothing really novel about that. But what Neil Young said
about Trump and what he fears Trump may do to him, well.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
That was novel.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
When I go to play music in Europe, if I
talk about Donald J. Trump, I may be one of
those returning to America who is barred or put in
jail to sleep on a cement floor within an a
luminum blanket. That is happening all the time. Now, No,
it's not happening all the time now, And that's a lie.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I did research a case where a UK punk band
had some trouble getting back into the country. And yes
they were critical of President Trump, but they said there
was some sort of immigration issues of some other complictions.
It was their sheer conjecture that their anti Trump's status
made them got them caught up in their kerfuffle that
we're talking about here. So just conjecture, no facts, just
(05:13):
a case where maybe something else went awry. You know,
immigration can be complicated, paperwork can get.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Lost in the mail.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
There are reasons why these things happen. But to say,
oh my gosh, they're gonna because we were anti Trump,
were being barred from the country. Until we know for
sure that this is happening, well, I he'll be the
first one to speak out to get it about it.
That's just flat out wrong. But I don't think that's
the case. It's certainly not happening all the time. I
don't think that President Trump or anyone from the administration
(05:40):
gives a bleep about what Neil Young has to say
on any given Thursday. I just don't.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I think it's ego.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Out of control.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think it's a rocker trying to get headlines, and
sadly he's gotten some and I'm maybe paying.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I'm paying into.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That particular situation. But it also has to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Part of the problem I have with Neil Young now
is that not only did he betray his free speech
efforts with that Joe Rogan attack, but where's he been?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Where's Neil Young been in recent years?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We really could have used him. We could have used
a free speech warrior like Neil Young. Remember the Twitter
files when people who had writ of center views were
being censored and taken down in shadow band. That wasn't
just a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It happened.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
We've got the receipts. What about sensitivity readers. They've been
taking away the words and sentences of beloved authors like
Ian Fleming and Royal Dahl Agatha Christie.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
That's happening.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
You can't read that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Neil Young didn't say a peep about it. What about
President Biden in his administration?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
No, let's put.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Aside scary poppins that misinformations are. Who's an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Bonering is really quite flicious. It's when it helps to
take some lines and makes them sound proposed, start saying
in Congress or on mainstream outlets. So this information's origins
so slightly last time.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
But the Biden administration was really kind of pressuring big
tech platforms to say, hey, this opinion doesn't work, this
is wrong. We can't share this, We can't share that.
That was happening too. Hey, Neil Young, where were you?
Why weren't you fighting truth to power? Why weren't you
the free speech warrior? You're telling us you were, Well,
you're not. You're a phony, you're a fraud, you're a partisan.
(07:24):
You only care about free speech when you can weaponize
free speech the argument, not the actual free speech amendment.
We needed people like Neil Young over the last few
years we needed Heck, we needed Howard Stern in recent
years he's been missing an action as well. So I'm sorry,
Neil Young. You've given us some great music. You might
give us some more great music. But when it comes
to free speech, you're doing it the wrong way. Be
(07:47):
consistent or pipe down, and no one cares if you're
critical of Donald Trump. No one cares at all, at
least let alone the president. He doesn't care about you,
he doesn't think about you. But you know what, if
you rise up and defend free spee beach on a
consistent basis, maybe you'll be cool again. Right now, you're
anything but as I may have said in the show before,
(08:17):
I am a failed comic book artist. Just never got
off the ground, never got off the launching pad, whatever
metaphor you.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Want to use.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I went to school for quite some time to be
an illustrator. I drew a lot as a kid. I remember,
you know, looking at Marvel comics and tracing them and
copying them. It's what I wanted to be. It was
my dream, and it didn't happen. I fell back on
a plan B, which for me was writing, of course,
podcasting and doing the things that I do now, this
silly little career of mine, now it worked out.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It's fine.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I have no regrets. But other people do have regrets
about the dreams that just never happened for them.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It's the story.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Behind the movie The Comic Shop, and it's a new
independent film. It's coming out April eleventh and vdo D
platforms everywhere. And it looks at a character played by
Jesse Metcalf who well, he wanted to be a comic
book illustrator as well, it just didn't work out that way.
He ended up going owning a comic book store, and
of course that's where the story takes off from there.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
No, I checked this out. Wild Imagination Comics just opened
up down the street. I think we should go check
out that on the comic shop.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You got the other half lifts.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I'm Chad, my dad owns the company.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
You know we're hiring you know, anybody who's interested in
the only comic.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Store in town? What about my squirrel?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Not much to see though, unless your mic. Now, this
is a independent film, for sure. You can tell there's
a modest budget here. But it's sweet, it's soulful, and
it's the kind of story that I like being out
there in the marketplace. We need more stories like the
Comic Shop. It's why I invited the writer director of
the film, Jonathan Bowen, to share his story. How did
he get it made, what were some of the obstacles
(09:51):
along the way, what are the messages he wanted to
share with the film, and how did he get an
Oscar nominee to be a part of the film. That's
another great story to share, it well, so hope you
enjoy the conversation with Jonathan and find out about that
actor who is what I call maybe the patron saint
of indie filmmaking. We could use a few more of
them too. Well, Jonathan, thanks for joining the show. And
(10:12):
it seems very appropriate to ask the origin story of
the comic Shop, because that's all about comic books and
superheroes and how the mighty are born and all of
a sudden, every indie film has its own sort of
origin story that makes it unique and special. So give
me the short version of how this whole concept came
to me.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Yeah, So I used to go to comic shops a
lot when I was younger, especially like through middle school,
and I knew a guy named Mike who ran a
comic shop and kind of seemed to lose interest over
the years, Like we were really close and they just
didn't show up as much and across the street. So
there was some element of care for that. And then
(10:52):
as an adult, you know, I kind of was thinking
about this again and realizing that when I was a kid,
I thought that running a comic shop and be like
the coolest thing ever. And then I was running my
own small business, realizing what a pain in the butt
it is, and thinking like, I wonder if there was
some of that, like maybe he just this wasn't his passion.
(11:13):
So then I kind of wanted to take this jumping
off point of real life Mike with my own experience,
kind of as I got towards middle age, wanting to
make movies but being stucked in corporate videos. Yeah, I
kind of married this like that these two real things
with like a heavy dose of fiction, and that was
sort of the way the concept was born.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah, and I think that's where it's helpful.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I'll share a little bit of my own comic background
in a minute, But it's sort of reaching for your dreams.
It's being deferred, it's trying to be realistic about your life.
And even though it has a very specific theme, I
think it's very universal in its storytelling.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
And that that really was, you know, a huge part
of the purpose. So I'll just give you a little anecdote.
But when we had Trists and Has come on a
Zoom call for the first time with Jesse, she admitted
to us that she's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I don't
I don't really know much about comics. Jesse interjected, like,
which this told me he really did understand the story. Well,
(12:13):
he said, it's not about comics. He's like, the story
is really about a guy chasing his dreams or a
guy who's lost his passion for life. Yeah, and he's
got to find a way to reconnect. So it's really
about the character relations. I think just the fact I
haven't really read comics since I was about thirteen, it
should tell you that it's pretty universally relatable. Because I'm
(12:35):
not a huge comic buff at this time. I appreciate
the medium. It had a big impact on me. But
you know, I've done a couple of these interviews with
huge comic buffs and it makes me so nervous because
I'm like, I don't know all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I mean imagine they'd appreciate sort
of the affinity you have with the material, and you know,
it's a love letter to the right to a unique
ard form which could be changing or evolving or even dying.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Just because so much of our life is digital.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It made me kind of sad to see this whole
analog world in a way kind of giving you know,
giving it a big hug in a sense.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Right, that's true. And I know they have you know,
I know there's been more digital comics lately, like they're
disturbing that way, But I do think that the kind
of people who are you know, big comic book fans
are very much physical media fans, like you know, whether
it's DVD, Blu ray or actual physical comics. You know,
(13:34):
there's something cool about holding that. You know. I've written
a couple of books myself, and if they were just
PDF files, I would have been so bummed, as like
a huge part of the deal for me to like
hold this this thing in my hand that's got a
thickness to it and know like I wrote this thing
versus like scrolling a PDF is just as an author
(13:55):
is not as satisfying, even though as a reader I
actually love digital books.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Yeah, it's amazing, you know.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
It.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Maybe explain a little bit of why LP's record records
are now kind of coming back in a way that
I mean, growing up having that tangible feel of it
in your hand.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Look at the album cover.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
It's really hard to duplicate it, even if it's much
easier in a million ways to have out of your smartphone.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
You're right that that's true. Like records have made a
pretty big comeback. Actually it was that. I don't think
it was last Christmas. It was the one before that.
Like my dad's girlfriend gave him a record player. My
dad's eighty two, so I get Sun And yeah, I
thought it was funny because you know, here he is
like messing with this thing again that you know he
(14:42):
of course he grew up with more stuff like that.
But yeah, it was kind of neat because I haven't
really messed with records a lot, so I think there
is something to that, you know, something you can touch
and feel. It's not always, like you said, not always
the most convenient, depending on all circumstances, but there's like
a neatness to it where maybe like if you're a
(15:02):
comic reader, you'd be fine reading most of digital, but
like your favorite comics, you'd want to actually own a
copy to put somewhere and collect.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I just spoke a couple of days ago with the
producer behind the movie reagain Ay. He has this incredible
story about how the movie came to be, the funding
that was there, then it disappeared. I mean, there's such
a battle to make.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Any movie these days.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It's true, there maybe a million little battles with your
film behind the scenes making it happen. Is there one
particular battle that you can share just to kind of
let people know how hard it is to kind of
push this boulder up a hill.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
Yeah. I mean, to me, I think the hardest thing
is really just a whole casting process. Like the idea
that when I did my first movie, I made what
I thought was a good movie, and we got good feedback,
did well at the festivals, and we went to big people,
whether it's lions Gate or Showtime or whatever, and they
(16:01):
all said, yeah, you know, we like the movie, but
you know, there's no one in it, so like, we
don't know what to do with this. Yeah, and so
they kind of all passed and you know, what I
realized is like, I'm not I'll make a different mistake,
but I don't want to make the same mistake twice.
I'm fine with learning making a new mistake and learning
from that one. So when we got to this, I
said to the producers, guys, you know, we're not going
(16:22):
ahead on this unless we can get some sort of
name that that at least does something like, yeah, we
can't afford to get an a lister, but we need
to get somebody who the media would be interested in,
some who can promote this thing a little bit. And
then we were fortunate that the distributor kind of gave
us a list of names that would move the needle
(16:42):
for them. And you know, there's some one there that
are quite surprising. Others I'm just like, I don't I
can't see that at all. I don't want that. Yeah,
you know, so we make these offers, and there was
it was a lot of waiting because the first one
I think was justin long and it's not a no
that's bad. No is good because then you can move
(17:03):
on to the next person. But it's a long no
that is just frustrating because then your mind keeps building
it up like, oh, man, yeah, Justin Long, I should
be so good in this. And then you know it's
like a week later and you're telling your wife, Hey,
let's go, let's go watch some of those old Justin
Long movies, you know, let's just tease ourselves. And yeah,
he finally says no, like six weeks later, you're like, oh,
(17:26):
it's like a death almost like and then you have
to kind of be reborn and think about the next person.
So that was the hardest one where we had started
casting in probably June, and then we didn't get just
until October, which is not necessarily unusual, but it definitely
felt like forever and like is this thing ever gonna happen?
(17:48):
And then one of my producers kind of, to be honest,
drove me a little bit insane because he takes every
rejection as like we have to go fix the script.
And I told him, I was like, the script, there's
nothing wrong with the script. They didn't even give you
an idea of why they passed. Sometimes it's like the
money wasn't enough just a long or timing wasn't right,
(18:11):
or they just couldn't see themselves in the role, like
they just they just personally did not feel that connection
with the material. So I think it worked out well
in the way because Jesse did feel you know, he
did feel that connection, like he was excited to play
this role. And that's good that we got somebody who
didn't just you know, collect the paycheck, show up and
(18:31):
kind of do the bare minimum. He showed up with
a binder like his script binder. He had notes on
every single thing about how he related to the material
or what he thought of it, what the scene was about.
It was really cool.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I thought a smaller part in the film is fascinating
to me, and actually had a chance to meet with
this particular actors. Eric Roberts has got you know, it's
not a major role, but I've noticed the last few
years he's alway become the patron saint of indie films,
where he just uses a cloud and gravitas. He comes in,
does a couple of scenes, knocks out of the park,
(19:07):
and then goes back and does another movie. And we
talked about it, and you know, I just I find
him fascinating in such a unique career and he still
does big projects and he still does smaller projects, and
I just what was you like working with him, and
is that a fair assessment. I feel like he kind
of is helping out indie filmmakers with with just just
(19:29):
his presence in a way.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah, I think so. I mean I remember they. I
think it was a casting director came to me and
said something like, oh, would you like Eric Roberts in
the movie? And I just thought it was a funny question, like, well,
like who wouldn't want Eric Rofts? But sure, I don't
can we? I don't think you can afford that, can we?
And then they said like no, no, no, he's really affordable,
(19:52):
like trusting, like and then he actually did a video
audition if you can believe that, Like he actually did
the scene. I'm like, you're an Oscar nominated actor, you
don't need to read, like we know you're good. But
I thought it was so cool. My job just like
dropped watching this. I'm like, is this actually Eric Roberts
reading my life? It's like this is crazy? And so
(20:15):
we were able to make it work out, and he was.
He's really funny, though I will say that I didn't
know his sense of humor, like he's such a good actor.
So he comes on and he's like three hours early,
and he starts to be like, guys, you know, I'm
at like fifteen minutes of film here, you know, we
got to get the show on the road. And I'm
like looking at my first city, like is he serious?
(20:35):
Like he's not due for three hours. We have a
whole other scene to do before me, and so I'm
kind of freaking out and my eighties like relaxed. He
does the same shick on every movie, like he has
things that he likes to do. Yeah, and because he
probably he knows there's indy filmmakers like me that are
super nervous and we're like under the guy and it's
a little funny to mess with. He messed with my
(20:55):
wife for most because my wife's pretty short and so
and she was in behind the stills bographer so like
pend scenes, and so he kept saying, well, somebody get
her an apple box, like she needs an apple box,
like and it was like, oh my gosh, I just
looked at my wife like just he's just stupid, like,
you know, don't take it for a or anything. But
(21:15):
he was really fun, and I think you're right. I
think that he just looking the way he interacts, I
think he loves to be on set, I think this
is what his passion is. It's like it's neat for
him to be the guy, you know, and and the crew,
the captain crew loved him and he was just as
nice to them, like everyone came up and oh, can
(21:36):
we get a picture like after a scene's done. So
we of course had a lot like ten minutes or
so in the schedule for everybody to get there. Eric
Roberts Photo. But he was happy to do it and
just just a nice, gentlemanly, fun guy.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Gotcha.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
When you think about this movie, it works on a
lot of different levels.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
As a father and son subplot going on here, it's about,
you know, do you reach your dreams? When do you
give up in your dreams? You know, there's a lot
happening here. When people do see the film, what do
you want them to take away with?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
What's what's sort of.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
The you'd want this reaction above all else.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Yeah, what I really want is for people to just
try to be in touch with what your passion is.
It is not really supposed to be a like drop
everything and follow your dreams. It's more of that, like
you can't just go through life just doing the basics
and always be happy. I mean, of course you have
to have food, shelter, safety, and these things, but it's
(22:32):
sort of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like there's gonna
be something missing there, like some spirituality or some sense
of like how you tap into the world around you.
And it could be anything, right, it could be. It
doesn't have to be you know, pursuing a career. It
could be charity work, could be volunteer work. But something
that you've wanted to do that hasn't been part of
(22:53):
your life, that like the days are blending together like
Mikes and he wakes up and he doesn't seem excited
to do anything. He just wants to go drink. And
so I think what he needed to find is that
love again, that passion that it's been right there. We've seen,
you know, he goes and draws on his own sometimes,
but now he's getting this writer or this drawer's block basically.
(23:15):
So that's what I would hope is that people see
the movie and kind of want to like reconnect with
a passion from when they were younger, or rededicate themselves
to a passion that they still have but maybe haven't
found as much energy or time for.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I think the company that's distributing the film is Quiver,
and I've seen a lot of their films.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
It's good, they have good stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Is it really tough to find a distributor for an
indie film today?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
What's the landscape?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Like?
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Yeah, yeah it is. And that I thought that was
process was kind of weird and depressing because we actually
were in touch with Quiver before he made the movie.
They were the ones who gave us the list of
the act well, but that doesn't mean that like we
didn't sign anything with them. They were just a Larry
over a Quiver great guy is just a friend of
(24:01):
the producer, and so he was, you know, willing and
able to help us out and say, hey, you know,
I can leave you this direction. And then we kind
of went to I couldn't tell you who he was,
some guy who was at Amazon Prime and he like
sat on the movie for months and then said like, oh,
like we're not interested, you know, and I'm like, okay, whatever,
(24:21):
and then you get hit up by a bunch of
kind of like fly by night distributors. So I was personally,
honestly really excited to sign with Quiver. You know, I
thought it was a good move because I've also seen
a lot of the movies and they have some stuff
I really like, you know, even like Dead for a Dollar, Well,
I love Christoff Waltz and you know, so they have
(24:44):
a lot of like actor driven movies, and it's kind
of all over the board, like there's some really strange,
like off the wall Quiver movies that I really liked.
So I think that they're they're kind of a distributor
I'm seeing is like giving a chance to wide variety movies.
They do something that's just like you're kind of you know,
I don't know, like action films that are maybe not
(25:06):
the deepest things, but then they have other ones that
are like, you know, really awardsy and like esoteric film.
So it was a good home for the film, and
it actually worked out kind of neat because as we
started going through this process, I was going to ask anyways,
but I didn't hadn't got there yet. Larry asked, could
we have the rights to your first movie, which hasn't
(25:28):
been in circulation for a while, and so I was
really excited. So we just signed the deal a couple
of weeks ago, and Quiver's also going to distribute my
old first movie. Oh well, so that'd be kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
You mentioned sort of you really need a name to
get the get this ball rolling for other young filmmakers
out there who are just starting or just even dreaming
about doing what you're doing. What are some other little
lessons you learned along the way that maybe people wouldn't expect,
but just part of the business.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Hmmm, you know, I think a lot of that comes
down to this might sound obvious, but using all of
the resources that you have, like who do you know
or who do people you know know to get locations
or it's something that might be a little more difficult.
And also I would say, like, you cannot. I know
most people know this, but I don't know that everybody does.
(26:19):
You cannot be a diva and think that like, well,
I'm writing this thing and I'm directing it, you know,
like all these other things is not my job in
every This is no disrespect, but in every single project
I've worked on, I've been involved in production, designer, props
or things that were really important to me, especially in
this movie where they're like all these things are like
key details. So I wanted to take point on all
(26:43):
of those and have them like technomn design myself, work
with the artist myself, not delegate, and then of course
what they The biggest lesson I would say if you're
going to do something is think backwards. Like you and
I are talking right now, who's going to be talking
about your movie when it's done? Like you can say
you have a great story, you love it. Who's it
(27:03):
for everybody? Because it's great? No? No, no, no. You
have to identify like what kind of media sources or
blogs or podcasts or anything might be interested in your film,
and then go backwards from that because otherwise you're going
to have the movie you don't know how to promote,
And that's the other hard lesson. You're gonna have to
promote it. You don't have a studio spending one hundred
(27:26):
million dollars, So you're the guy like you can't just
be mister director, You're you're a mister like publicist, promoter.
You've got to be your own biggest fan, and that
means you better believe in what you're doing too.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I imagine with every independent film there are happy accidents
on set. You don't have enough money for this, so
you pivot and actually turns out better, or you know,
whether it doesn't work out your way and then you're
kind of have to improvise and it actually ends up being.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
A little bit of a perch of the film.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Were there any moments like that in the production where
we thought, boy, this wasn't the plan, but we did
the best we could and actually did it pretty well.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Yeah, you're right, there are always those, you know. I'm
trying to think, like, I think there was more on
other projects I've done where I definitely thought it'd turned
out better. One of them we just got lucky on, though,
which was like when Tristan's character is picking up Jesse
from the jail, Well, we had a major camera issue
(28:23):
after we got all Jesse's coverage and we turned around
on Tristan and we got one single take and then
we had all these camera issues. It shut production down
for like two hours in the first day we got
these kings work down. Never happened again, but we were
not able to go back. And thank god, Tristan is
so good and such a natural that she usually would
(28:45):
nail takes and the first or second one, and so
we were like replaying it, you know, just all nervous,
like this is going to be good enough, and it
was really good, and she, of course she hated this idea.
She's like, you know, I wanted more time, and I
promised her would try to get us back if we
had any way, any hole in the schedule. So we
showed her the take and she looks at it and
(29:05):
we're all like nervously watching her, and she said, Okay,
that was good. It was really funny, because you know,
actors are often very self conscious, but I was like
happy that she was happy for that. And You're right,
there are always those little things where I think that
they're smaller things, but sometimes like something doesn't really work out,
maybe a piece of equipment even, and then you have
(29:27):
to reimagine how you're going to shoot the scene. But
then once you do it, you almost can't imagine it
being another way. Yeah, they're just like, oh, this work.
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I'm assuming you have either thoughts or ideas or maybe
even something more concrete for a follow up project. Is
there anything you can share about that, or even just
how you kind of move on from this and the
sort of the rocket fool you get from a completed
film or the lessons you learned along the way. What's
how are you going to push forward after this?
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Yeah, I think that that's the toughest one, because like
it might be my least favorite question that I always
get asked only because I'm like, I really hope there's
another chance, and I have to I have to believe
there will be, but you know this, this movie's got
to kind of like buy me that next opportunity. Yes,
I do have a couple other Finnish scripts that you know,
(30:20):
I've thought of making. They're more I think both those
are kind of either thriller sci fi or more sci
fi action, but they're supposed to be like thoughtful movies
like that there's you know, there's a good message in them.
And then there's a couple others that kind of have
like just ideas, like I really have this idea for
a wellness retreat horror film and it's like it's like
(30:43):
a wellness retreat gone wrong where it's folt like and
they've almost come up with their own like little woo
woo religion. And I don't know, I got this idea
because my wife's fig into all this, like you know,
health and wellness, and like I just think it's something
you could easily take too far, and as somebody who's
big into health and fitness myself, I want to see that.
(31:04):
I want to see like somebody take this too far
to where yeah, it's like, hey, you know we can
sacrifice like one person month that if it's for all
of our good I mean, you know, like that's what
you need. Don't be reborn anyways, you know, something like that.
So there's some ideas floating around that I would love
to have a chance to develop and would look forward to.
(31:25):
I've been with this project for three years just since
starting it, but I wrote it seven years ago, so yeah,
I'm kind of looking forward to that. What's next as well?
Speaker 4 (31:37):
One last question.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
You know, looking at the landscape, there are more opportunities
for an indie filmmaker than ever before. I mean, so
many different platforms. The technology you know is going down
as far as the cost. You know, you can go
on YouTube. There's so many different technological perks you have.
At the same time, the industry is changing so dramatically.
(31:58):
The landscape is so busy, so noisy, it's hard to
cut through. Do you feel optimistic moving forward as a storyteller?
Are you a little bit pessimistic or is it depending
on what started the pillow you wake up on. What's
your thoughts as a filmmaker who wants to keep on
telling stories.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Yeah, I think you really did nail it, because I've
said that a bunch of times that like it's now
easier than ever to make a movie, but I would
argue it's harder than ever to get it actually seen,
like to cut through the noise. As you say, there's
so much out there, and so there is a democratization
of filmmaking. I do think it depends on my mood,
(32:36):
Like I think that at times where I have this
weird mood. I was totally serious about this. My wife
still doesn't believe me, but I said, like, if I
didn't get any way to make a third movie, I
almost want to like set up this table in the
garage and make like a stop motion movie. And she
says like, well, I don't think you realize like that
would probably take forever. I'm like, yeah, I probably would
take like seven years by myself working a lot. But
(32:59):
then like I I still rather do that than never
create anything ever again. So I try to look at
the positive is that there's a lot of you know,
opportunity as you said too, and you just have to
find a way to get your work out there and
kind of separate yourself sure that you know what you're doing,
you know, and you can make stories relate to. So
(33:20):
I try to remain optimistic, but you know, in any
artistic field, you have your dark moments where you're just like, oh,
this is never gonna work out. What am I gonna do?
What if it doesn't, what am I doing with the
rest of my life?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
You know that kind of thing, one last little tiny
thing when you have those dark moments, I'm not looking
like a deep personal Are there little tricks you do
to kind of lift you out? Maybe even a movie
you watched there or a song that kind of, you know,
picks your spirits back up?
Speaker 5 (33:47):
Yeah, I mean sometimes like I try to reframe things
and think also like how far I've come that at
one point in high school I couldn't even imagine how
you would make them, how you direct, and then to
kind of think like, well, I mean, worst case scenario,
I've directed two movies. That's two more than most people.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, that's a great way.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
I have this wonderful experience, you know, something I'm proud of.
And so I try to reframe it like that, or
I just kind of remind myself it's like it's the
creation I love. And maybe I won't be able to
go make another feature, but I can go make short films,
or I can I can write scripts. I can be
involved in some way that doesn't cost a lot of money.
(34:28):
Maybe it won't be quite a fulfilling, but I always
try to remind myself that My attitude when I was
younger was like, you've got to be like the two
one thousand. Even if you get blown to bits, you're
gonna get back up and you're gonna keep going and
you're not taking out for an answer until you don't
have a pulse anymore. Basically, you know, and you know
the people.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
The people who have that attitude are the ones who
can say I've made a movie, I've made two movie
at three and three movies, and the the people who
don't have that attitude, and God bless them. Everyone has
their own path. They go into different endeavors, so and
there's nothing wrong with that. But you've got two movies.
I suspect you've got more in the way.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But Jonathan, thanks to Jordan.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
The show, I really appreciate your time and your tenacity.
I was a fledgling art major back in the day.
I went to three different art schools. Wanted to be
a comic book artist. It did not pan out, but
my plan b I'm pretty happy with it, and I'm
glad that you're kind of telling that kind of story
because I think it is important. The movie is The
Comic Shop. It's opening April eleventh on video on demand
(35:24):
platforms all over. It could be you know, Google, it
could be Apple, it could be Amazon, wherever you're finding
those kinds of films. Check it out, give it an order,
give it a try. I think you'll like it and
we appreciate your time.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Your character actor of the week is Francis Conroy. Well,
that's it for the show this week. Again, thank you
to Radio America for having me as part of their
great podcast lineup. And if you have a chance, check
out Hollywood Intoto dot com. Where now and it's eleventh
year celebrated ten year anniversary last time around. Now it's
all about the right take on entertainment.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Much like this podcast. It is updated seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
News reviews, commentary, interviews, everything about Hollywood that Maybe you're
not seeing in Variety or a deadline or the Hollywood Reporter,
but you should.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I do.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Hope you check it out, But for now, I hope
everyone has a wonderful week that is Doctor's Orders,
This week on the Hollywood and Total Podcast, we call
out rocker Neil Young because well he deserves to be
called out, and we talked to the filmmaker behind the
Comic Shop. It's a new film about a comic book
illustrator who got detoured along the way and opened up
his own comic book shop. That has his own complications,
but it really is also about someone who just got
(00:20):
sidelined along the way and was able to reconnect with
their original passion. That's important. That's a great story to tell.
We'll find out from the guy who told it.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome to the Hollywood and Total Podcast. Entertainment news and
reviews without the book, Hollywood narrative, free speech, free expression.
Now that's entertainment, and here's your host, Award winning film
critic Costian Toto.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
I don't like picking on classic rockers. For one thing,
they made the soundtrack to Our Lives literally. They're also
not getting any younger. I read a story just a
couple of days ago about how The Who's Roger Daltrey
said he's going blind and deaf, and it just absolutely
crushed me. So, I don't know, picking on the older
rock generation just doesn't make sense to me. I try
(01:19):
to stay away as much as possible, but then someone
like Neil Young comes along and I have to kind
of shuttle my plans because he made.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Me do it.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Guilty is charged, you know, when you think about it.
They should have a lot of wisdom to share. They've
been around on this planet for decades. They've lived these colorful,
remarkable lives. They may have loved and lost, they may
have overcome lots of adversity over the years. I pictured,
they've got some great stories to tell and some great
insights into the human condition. And then there's Neil Young. Yeah,
(01:49):
he's an exception to the rule. And that's why I'm
going to single him out on this episode because he
richly deserves it now. Neil Young back in the two
thousands was all about smiting to President George W.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Bush over the Iraq.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
War, and we could agree or disagree. I think Gothua
that particular argument has aged rather well. One of the
things he did in that era was create a freedom
of speech rock tour where he wanted to focus on
the First Amendment. And I think at the time, part
of the thinking in the pop culture landscape was that
people weren't allowed to say what they wanted to say
about the war. About President Bush, there was this sense
(02:25):
that we were told you'd be unpatriotic.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
If you said that I love this country.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Now, I think this is a bit of a strawmend
because a lot of people spoke out at the time.
So but at the same time, anyone who's free speech adjacent,
anyone who wants to raise their fist for free speech,
I'm all for them. So good for Neil Young for
doing that. At the time, maybe it was had some imperfections,
but again, the free speech matters. The First Amendment is
what we care about so deeply here on the show
(02:52):
and hopefully in this country, though Sally there are exceptions,
but that whole free speech mantra really just pushed aside
in recent years by Neil Young. And of course you
may know what I'm talking about. A couple of years ago,
during the pandemic, Neil Young came out and said that
Joe Rogan, he's spreading disinformation, misinformation.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Maybe even malinformation.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
He must go Spotify. If you don't kick him out,
I'm gonna drag my music off that platform. How dare
you give him a voice? And Spotify said, well, we
love you, Neil, but we're not firing Joe Rogan anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Joe Rogan survived.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Neil Young eventually backpedaled, he put his music back on
the platform. He didn't get many people to join or
rally by his side, and he.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Just looked foolish. Here is this free speech guy.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Here is a guy who's dating back to the nineteen
sixties and seventies, a guy who's got hippie DNA to
his core, and what he wanted to do was shut down.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
One of the voices in the culture.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
And of course that looked even worse in retrospect when
the government and the media, well, they weren't exactly truth.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Tellers when it came to the pandemics.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
So maybe Joe Rogan was wobbly at times, but he
also got some stuff right, and we needed dissenting voices
at the time. It's kind of what free speech is
all about. And he seems to have forgotten that lesson.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Maybe you need a refresher course.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
But more recently, Neil Young is back in the news
because he wants to smite Donald Trump. Now, listen to
the list of celebrities who want to attack President Trump
is long. It's getting longer by the day. And there's
nothing really novel about that. But what Neil Young said
about Trump and what he fears Trump may do to him, well.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
That was novel.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
When I go to play music in Europe, if I
talk about Donald J. Trump, I may be one of
those returning to America who is barred or put in
jail to sleep on a cement floor within an a
luminum blanket. That is happening all the time. Now, No,
it's not happening all the time now, And that's a lie.
Speaker 5 (04:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I did research a case where a UK punk band
had some trouble getting back into the country. And yes
they were critical of President Trump, but they said there
was some sort of immigration issues of some other complictions.
It was their sheer conjecture that their anti Trump's status
made them got them caught up in their kerfuffle that
we're talking about here. So just conjecture, no facts, just
(05:13):
a case where maybe something else went awry. You know,
immigration can be complicated, paperwork can get.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Lost in the mail.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
There are reasons why these things happen. But to say,
oh my gosh, they're gonna because we were anti Trump,
were being barred from the country. Until we know for
sure that this is happening, well, I he'll be the
first one to speak out to get it about it.
That's just flat out wrong. But I don't think that's
the case. It's certainly not happening all the time. I
don't think that President Trump or anyone from the administration
(05:40):
gives a bleep about what Neil Young has to say
on any given Thursday. I just don't.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
I think it's ego.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Out of control.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think it's a rocker trying to get headlines, and
sadly he's gotten some and I'm maybe paying.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
I'm paying into.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That particular situation. But it also has to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Part of the problem I have with Neil Young now
is that not only did he betray his free speech
efforts with that Joe Rogan attack, but where's he been?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Where's Neil Young been in recent years?
Speaker 1 (06:09):
We really could have used him. We could have used
a free speech warrior like Neil Young. Remember the Twitter
files when people who had writ of center views were
being censored and taken down in shadow band. That wasn't
just a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It happened.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
We've got the receipts. What about sensitivity readers. They've been
taking away the words and sentences of beloved authors like
Ian Fleming and Royal Dahl Agatha Christie.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
That's happening.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
You can't read that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Neil Young didn't say a peep about it. What about
President Biden in his administration?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
No, let's put.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Aside scary poppins that misinformations are. Who's an absolute nightmare.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
Bonering is really quite flicious. It's when it helps to
take some lines and makes them sound proposed, start saying
in Congress or on mainstream outlets. So this information's origins
so slightly last time.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
But the Biden administration was really kind of pressuring big
tech platforms to say, hey, this opinion doesn't work, this
is wrong. We can't share this, We can't share that.
That was happening too. Hey, Neil Young, where were you?
Why weren't you fighting truth to power? Why weren't you
the free speech warrior? You're telling us you were, Well,
you're not. You're a phony, you're a fraud, you're a partisan.
(07:24):
You only care about free speech when you can weaponize
free speech the argument, not the actual free speech amendment.
We needed people like Neil Young over the last few
years we needed Heck, we needed Howard Stern in recent
years he's been missing an action as well. So I'm sorry,
Neil Young. You've given us some great music. You might
give us some more great music. But when it comes
to free speech, you're doing it the wrong way. Be
(07:47):
consistent or pipe down, and no one cares if you're
critical of Donald Trump. No one cares at all, at
least let alone the president. He doesn't care about you,
he doesn't think about you. But you know what, if
you rise up and defend free spee beach on a
consistent basis, maybe you'll be cool again. Right now, you're
anything but as I may have said in the show before,
(08:17):
I am a failed comic book artist. Just never got
off the ground, never got off the launching pad, whatever
metaphor you.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Want to use.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
I went to school for quite some time to be
an illustrator. I drew a lot as a kid. I remember,
you know, looking at Marvel comics and tracing them and
copying them. It's what I wanted to be. It was
my dream, and it didn't happen. I fell back on
a plan B, which for me was writing, of course,
podcasting and doing the things that I do now, this
silly little career of mine, now it worked out.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
It's fine.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I have no regrets. But other people do have regrets
about the dreams that just never happened for them.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
It's the story.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Behind the movie The Comic Shop, and it's a new
independent film. It's coming out April eleventh and vdo D
platforms everywhere. And it looks at a character played by
Jesse Metcalf who well, he wanted to be a comic
book illustrator as well, it just didn't work out that way.
He ended up going owning a comic book store, and
of course that's where the story takes off from there.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
No, I checked this out. Wild Imagination Comics just opened
up down the street. I think we should go check
out that on the comic shop.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You got the other half lifts.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I'm Chad, my dad owns the company.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
You know we're hiring you know, anybody who's interested in
the only comic.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Store in town? What about my squirrel?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Not much to see though, unless your mic. Now, this
is a independent film, for sure. You can tell there's
a modest budget here. But it's sweet, it's soulful, and
it's the kind of story that I like being out
there in the marketplace. We need more stories like the
Comic Shop. It's why I invited the writer director of
the film, Jonathan Bowen, to share his story. How did
he get it made, what were some of the obstacles
(09:51):
along the way, what are the messages he wanted to
share with the film, and how did he get an
Oscar nominee to be a part of the film. That's
another great story to share, it well, so hope you
enjoy the conversation with Jonathan and find out about that
actor who is what I call maybe the patron saint
of indie filmmaking. We could use a few more of
them too. Well, Jonathan, thanks for joining the show. And
(10:12):
it seems very appropriate to ask the origin story of
the comic Shop, because that's all about comic books and
superheroes and how the mighty are born and all of
a sudden, every indie film has its own sort of
origin story that makes it unique and special. So give
me the short version of how this whole concept came
to me.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Yeah, So I used to go to comic shops a
lot when I was younger, especially like through middle school,
and I knew a guy named Mike who ran a
comic shop and kind of seemed to lose interest over
the years, Like we were really close and they just
didn't show up as much and across the street. So
there was some element of care for that. And then
(10:52):
as an adult, you know, I kind of was thinking
about this again and realizing that when I was a kid,
I thought that running a comic shop and be like
the coolest thing ever. And then I was running my
own small business, realizing what a pain in the butt
it is, and thinking like, I wonder if there was
some of that, like maybe he just this wasn't his passion.
(11:13):
So then I kind of wanted to take this jumping
off point of real life Mike with my own experience,
kind of as I got towards middle age, wanting to
make movies but being stucked in corporate videos. Yeah, I
kind of married this like that these two real things
with like a heavy dose of fiction, and that was
sort of the way the concept was born.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Yeah, and I think that's where it's helpful.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I'll share a little bit of my own comic background
in a minute, But it's sort of reaching for your dreams.
It's being deferred, it's trying to be realistic about your life.
And even though it has a very specific theme, I
think it's very universal in its storytelling.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
And that that really was, you know, a huge part
of the purpose. So I'll just give you a little anecdote.
But when we had Trists and Has come on a
Zoom call for the first time with Jesse, she admitted
to us that she's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I don't
I don't really know much about comics. Jesse interjected, like,
which this told me he really did understand the story. Well,
(12:13):
he said, it's not about comics. He's like, the story
is really about a guy chasing his dreams or a
guy who's lost his passion for life. Yeah, and he's
got to find a way to reconnect. So it's really
about the character relations. I think just the fact I
haven't really read comics since I was about thirteen, it
should tell you that it's pretty universally relatable. Because I'm
(12:35):
not a huge comic buff at this time. I appreciate
the medium. It had a big impact on me. But
you know, I've done a couple of these interviews with
huge comic buffs and it makes me so nervous because
I'm like, I don't know all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I mean imagine they'd appreciate sort
of the affinity you have with the material, and you know,
it's a love letter to the right to a unique
ard form which could be changing or evolving or even dying.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Just because so much of our life is digital.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
It made me kind of sad to see this whole
analog world in a way kind of giving you know,
giving it a big hug in a sense.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
Right, that's true. And I know they have you know,
I know there's been more digital comics lately, like they're
disturbing that way, But I do think that the kind
of people who are you know, big comic book fans
are very much physical media fans, like you know, whether
it's DVD, Blu ray or actual physical comics. You know,
(13:34):
there's something cool about holding that. You know. I've written
a couple of books myself, and if they were just
PDF files, I would have been so bummed, as like
a huge part of the deal for me to like
hold this this thing in my hand that's got a
thickness to it and know like I wrote this thing
versus like scrolling a PDF is just as an author
(13:55):
is not as satisfying, even though as a reader I
actually love digital books.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Yeah, it's amazing, you know.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
It.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Maybe explain a little bit of why LP's record records
are now kind of coming back in a way that
I mean, growing up having that tangible feel of it
in your hand.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Look at the album cover.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
It's really hard to duplicate it, even if it's much
easier in a million ways to have out of your smartphone.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
You're right that that's true. Like records have made a
pretty big comeback. Actually it was that. I don't think
it was last Christmas. It was the one before that.
Like my dad's girlfriend gave him a record player. My
dad's eighty two, so I get Sun And yeah, I
thought it was funny because you know, here he is
like messing with this thing again that you know he
(14:42):
of course he grew up with more stuff like that.
But yeah, it was kind of neat because I haven't
really messed with records a lot, so I think there
is something to that, you know, something you can touch
and feel. It's not always, like you said, not always
the most convenient, depending on all circumstances, but there's like
a neatness to it where maybe like if you're a
(15:02):
comic reader, you'd be fine reading most of digital, but
like your favorite comics, you'd want to actually own a
copy to put somewhere and collect.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I just spoke a couple of days ago with the
producer behind the movie reagain Ay. He has this incredible
story about how the movie came to be, the funding
that was there, then it disappeared. I mean, there's such
a battle to make.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Any movie these days.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
It's true, there maybe a million little battles with your
film behind the scenes making it happen. Is there one
particular battle that you can share just to kind of
let people know how hard it is to kind of
push this boulder up a hill.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
Yeah. I mean, to me, I think the hardest thing
is really just a whole casting process. Like the idea
that when I did my first movie, I made what
I thought was a good movie, and we got good feedback,
did well at the festivals, and we went to big people,
whether it's lions Gate or Showtime or whatever, and they
(16:01):
all said, yeah, you know, we like the movie, but
you know, there's no one in it, so like, we
don't know what to do with this. Yeah, and so
they kind of all passed and you know, what I
realized is like, I'm not I'll make a different mistake,
but I don't want to make the same mistake twice.
I'm fine with learning making a new mistake and learning
from that one. So when we got to this, I
said to the producers, guys, you know, we're not going
(16:22):
ahead on this unless we can get some sort of
name that that at least does something like, yeah, we
can't afford to get an a lister, but we need
to get somebody who the media would be interested in,
some who can promote this thing a little bit. And
then we were fortunate that the distributor kind of gave
us a list of names that would move the needle
(16:42):
for them. And you know, there's some one there that
are quite surprising. Others I'm just like, I don't I
can't see that at all. I don't want that. Yeah,
you know, so we make these offers, and there was
it was a lot of waiting because the first one
I think was justin long and it's not a no
that's bad. No is good because then you can move
(17:03):
on to the next person. But it's a long no
that is just frustrating because then your mind keeps building
it up like, oh, man, yeah, Justin Long, I should
be so good in this. And then you know it's
like a week later and you're telling your wife, Hey,
let's go, let's go watch some of those old Justin
Long movies, you know, let's just tease ourselves. And yeah,
he finally says no, like six weeks later, you're like, oh,
(17:26):
it's like a death almost like and then you have
to kind of be reborn and think about the next person.
So that was the hardest one where we had started
casting in probably June, and then we didn't get just
until October, which is not necessarily unusual, but it definitely
felt like forever and like is this thing ever gonna happen?
(17:48):
And then one of my producers kind of, to be honest,
drove me a little bit insane because he takes every
rejection as like we have to go fix the script.
And I told him, I was like, the script, there's
nothing wrong with the script. They didn't even give you
an idea of why they passed. Sometimes it's like the
money wasn't enough just a long or timing wasn't right,
(18:11):
or they just couldn't see themselves in the role, like
they just they just personally did not feel that connection
with the material. So I think it worked out well
in the way because Jesse did feel you know, he
did feel that connection, like he was excited to play
this role. And that's good that we got somebody who
didn't just you know, collect the paycheck, show up and
(18:31):
kind of do the bare minimum. He showed up with
a binder like his script binder. He had notes on
every single thing about how he related to the material
or what he thought of it, what the scene was about.
It was really cool.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I thought a smaller part in the film is fascinating
to me, and actually had a chance to meet with
this particular actors. Eric Roberts has got you know, it's
not a major role, but I've noticed the last few
years he's alway become the patron saint of indie films,
where he just uses a cloud and gravitas. He comes in,
does a couple of scenes, knocks out of the park,
(19:07):
and then goes back and does another movie. And we
talked about it, and you know, I just I find
him fascinating in such a unique career and he still
does big projects and he still does smaller projects, and
I just what was you like working with him, and
is that a fair assessment. I feel like he kind
of is helping out indie filmmakers with with just just
(19:29):
his presence in a way.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah, I think so. I mean I remember they. I
think it was a casting director came to me and
said something like, oh, would you like Eric Roberts in
the movie? And I just thought it was a funny question, like, well,
like who wouldn't want Eric Rofts? But sure, I don't
can we? I don't think you can afford that, can we?
And then they said like no, no, no, he's really affordable,
(19:52):
like trusting, like and then he actually did a video
audition if you can believe that, Like he actually did
the scene. I'm like, you're an Oscar nominated actor, you
don't need to read, like we know you're good. But
I thought it was so cool. My job just like
dropped watching this. I'm like, is this actually Eric Roberts
reading my life? It's like this is crazy? And so
(20:15):
we were able to make it work out, and he was.
He's really funny, though I will say that I didn't
know his sense of humor, like he's such a good actor.
So he comes on and he's like three hours early,
and he starts to be like, guys, you know, I'm
at like fifteen minutes of film here, you know, we
got to get the show on the road. And I'm
like looking at my first city, like is he serious?
(20:35):
Like he's not due for three hours. We have a
whole other scene to do before me, and so I'm
kind of freaking out and my eighties like relaxed. He
does the same shick on every movie, like he has
things that he likes to do. Yeah, and because he
probably he knows there's indy filmmakers like me that are
super nervous and we're like under the guy and it's
a little funny to mess with. He messed with my
(20:55):
wife for most because my wife's pretty short and so
and she was in behind the stills bographer so like
pend scenes, and so he kept saying, well, somebody get
her an apple box, like she needs an apple box,
like and it was like, oh my gosh, I just
looked at my wife like just he's just stupid, like,
you know, don't take it for a or anything. But
(21:15):
he was really fun, and I think you're right. I
think that he just looking the way he interacts, I
think he loves to be on set, I think this
is what his passion is. It's like it's neat for
him to be the guy, you know, and and the crew,
the captain crew loved him and he was just as
nice to them, like everyone came up and oh, can
(21:36):
we get a picture like after a scene's done. So
we of course had a lot like ten minutes or
so in the schedule for everybody to get there. Eric
Roberts Photo. But he was happy to do it and
just just a nice, gentlemanly, fun guy.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Gotcha.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
When you think about this movie, it works on a
lot of different levels.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
As a father and son subplot going on here, it's about,
you know, do you reach your dreams? When do you
give up in your dreams? You know, there's a lot
happening here. When people do see the film, what do
you want them to take away with?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
What's what's sort of.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
The you'd want this reaction above all else.
Speaker 5 (22:11):
Yeah, what I really want is for people to just
try to be in touch with what your passion is.
It is not really supposed to be a like drop
everything and follow your dreams. It's more of that, like
you can't just go through life just doing the basics
and always be happy. I mean, of course you have
to have food, shelter, safety, and these things, but it's
(22:32):
sort of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like there's gonna
be something missing there, like some spirituality or some sense
of like how you tap into the world around you.
And it could be anything, right, it could be. It
doesn't have to be you know, pursuing a career. It
could be charity work, could be volunteer work. But something
that you've wanted to do that hasn't been part of
(22:53):
your life, that like the days are blending together like
Mikes and he wakes up and he doesn't seem excited
to do anything. He just wants to go drink. And
so I think what he needed to find is that
love again, that passion that it's been right there. We've seen,
you know, he goes and draws on his own sometimes,
but now he's getting this writer or this drawer's block basically.
(23:15):
So that's what I would hope is that people see
the movie and kind of want to like reconnect with
a passion from when they were younger, or rededicate themselves
to a passion that they still have but maybe haven't
found as much energy or time for.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I think the company that's distributing the film is Quiver,
and I've seen a lot of their films.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
It's good, they have good stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Is it really tough to find a distributor for an
indie film today?
Speaker 4 (23:39):
What's the landscape?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Like?
Speaker 5 (23:40):
Yeah, yeah it is. And that I thought that was
process was kind of weird and depressing because we actually
were in touch with Quiver before he made the movie.
They were the ones who gave us the list of
the act well, but that doesn't mean that like we
didn't sign anything with them. They were just a Larry
over a Quiver great guy is just a friend of
(24:01):
the producer, and so he was, you know, willing and
able to help us out and say, hey, you know,
I can leave you this direction. And then we kind
of went to I couldn't tell you who he was,
some guy who was at Amazon Prime and he like
sat on the movie for months and then said like, oh,
like we're not interested, you know, and I'm like, okay, whatever,
(24:21):
and then you get hit up by a bunch of
kind of like fly by night distributors. So I was personally,
honestly really excited to sign with Quiver. You know, I
thought it was a good move because I've also seen
a lot of the movies and they have some stuff
I really like, you know, even like Dead for a Dollar, Well,
I love Christoff Waltz and you know, so they have
(24:44):
a lot of like actor driven movies, and it's kind
of all over the board, like there's some really strange,
like off the wall Quiver movies that I really liked.
So I think that they're they're kind of a distributor
I'm seeing is like giving a chance to wide variety movies.
They do something that's just like you're kind of you know,
I don't know, like action films that are maybe not
(25:06):
the deepest things, but then they have other ones that
are like, you know, really awardsy and like esoteric film.
So it was a good home for the film, and
it actually worked out kind of neat because as we
started going through this process, I was going to ask anyways,
but I didn't hadn't got there yet. Larry asked, could
we have the rights to your first movie, which hasn't
(25:28):
been in circulation for a while, and so I was
really excited. So we just signed the deal a couple
of weeks ago, and Quiver's also going to distribute my
old first movie. Oh well, so that'd be kind of fun.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
You mentioned sort of you really need a name to
get the get this ball rolling for other young filmmakers
out there who are just starting or just even dreaming
about doing what you're doing. What are some other little
lessons you learned along the way that maybe people wouldn't expect,
but just part of the business.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Hmmm, you know, I think a lot of that comes
down to this might sound obvious, but using all of
the resources that you have, like who do you know
or who do people you know know to get locations
or it's something that might be a little more difficult.
And also I would say, like, you cannot. I know
most people know this, but I don't know that everybody does.
(26:19):
You cannot be a diva and think that like, well,
I'm writing this thing and I'm directing it, you know,
like all these other things is not my job in
every This is no disrespect, but in every single project
I've worked on, I've been involved in production, designer, props
or things that were really important to me, especially in
this movie where they're like all these things are like
key details. So I wanted to take point on all
(26:43):
of those and have them like technomn design myself, work
with the artist myself, not delegate, and then of course
what they The biggest lesson I would say if you're
going to do something is think backwards. Like you and
I are talking right now, who's going to be talking
about your movie when it's done? Like you can say
you have a great story, you love it. Who's it
(27:03):
for everybody? Because it's great? No? No, no, no. You
have to identify like what kind of media sources or
blogs or podcasts or anything might be interested in your film,
and then go backwards from that because otherwise you're going
to have the movie you don't know how to promote,
And that's the other hard lesson. You're gonna have to
promote it. You don't have a studio spending one hundred
(27:26):
million dollars, So you're the guy like you can't just
be mister director, You're you're a mister like publicist, promoter.
You've got to be your own biggest fan, and that
means you better believe in what you're doing too.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I imagine with every independent film there are happy accidents
on set. You don't have enough money for this, so
you pivot and actually turns out better, or you know,
whether it doesn't work out your way and then you're
kind of have to improvise and it actually ends up being.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
A little bit of a perch of the film.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Were there any moments like that in the production where
we thought, boy, this wasn't the plan, but we did
the best we could and actually did it pretty well.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Yeah, you're right, there are always those, you know. I'm
trying to think, like, I think there was more on
other projects I've done where I definitely thought it'd turned
out better. One of them we just got lucky on, though,
which was like when Tristan's character is picking up Jesse
from the jail, Well, we had a major camera issue
(28:23):
after we got all Jesse's coverage and we turned around
on Tristan and we got one single take and then
we had all these camera issues. It shut production down
for like two hours in the first day we got
these kings work down. Never happened again, but we were
not able to go back. And thank god, Tristan is
so good and such a natural that she usually would
(28:45):
nail takes and the first or second one, and so
we were like replaying it, you know, just all nervous,
like this is going to be good enough, and it
was really good, and she, of course she hated this idea.
She's like, you know, I wanted more time, and I
promised her would try to get us back if we
had any way, any hole in the schedule. So we
showed her the take and she looks at it and
(29:05):
we're all like nervously watching her, and she said, Okay,
that was good. It was really funny, because you know,
actors are often very self conscious, but I was like
happy that she was happy for that. And You're right,
there are always those little things where I think that
they're smaller things, but sometimes like something doesn't really work out,
maybe a piece of equipment even, and then you have
(29:27):
to reimagine how you're going to shoot the scene. But
then once you do it, you almost can't imagine it
being another way. Yeah, they're just like, oh, this work.
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I'm assuming you have either thoughts or ideas or maybe
even something more concrete for a follow up project. Is
there anything you can share about that, or even just
how you kind of move on from this and the
sort of the rocket fool you get from a completed
film or the lessons you learned along the way. What's
how are you going to push forward after this?
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Yeah, I think that that's the toughest one, because like
it might be my least favorite question that I always
get asked only because I'm like, I really hope there's
another chance, and I have to I have to believe
there will be, but you know this, this movie's got
to kind of like buy me that next opportunity. Yes,
I do have a couple other Finnish scripts that you know,
(30:20):
I've thought of making. They're more I think both those
are kind of either thriller sci fi or more sci
fi action, but they're supposed to be like thoughtful movies
like that there's you know, there's a good message in them.
And then there's a couple others that kind of have
like just ideas, like I really have this idea for
a wellness retreat horror film and it's like it's like
(30:43):
a wellness retreat gone wrong where it's folt like and
they've almost come up with their own like little woo
woo religion. And I don't know, I got this idea
because my wife's fig into all this, like you know,
health and wellness, and like I just think it's something
you could easily take too far, and as somebody who's
big into health and fitness myself, I want to see that.
(31:04):
I want to see like somebody take this too far
to where yeah, it's like, hey, you know we can
sacrifice like one person month that if it's for all
of our good I mean, you know, like that's what
you need. Don't be reborn anyways, you know, something like that.
So there's some ideas floating around that I would love
to have a chance to develop and would look forward to.
(31:25):
I've been with this project for three years just since
starting it, but I wrote it seven years ago, so yeah,
I'm kind of looking forward to that. What's next as well?
Speaker 4 (31:37):
One last question.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
You know, looking at the landscape, there are more opportunities
for an indie filmmaker than ever before. I mean, so
many different platforms. The technology you know is going down
as far as the cost. You know, you can go
on YouTube. There's so many different technological perks you have.
At the same time, the industry is changing so dramatically.
(31:58):
The landscape is so busy, so noisy, it's hard to
cut through. Do you feel optimistic moving forward as a storyteller?
Are you a little bit pessimistic or is it depending
on what started the pillow you wake up on. What's
your thoughts as a filmmaker who wants to keep on
telling stories.
Speaker 5 (32:14):
Yeah, I think you really did nail it, because I've
said that a bunch of times that like it's now
easier than ever to make a movie, but I would
argue it's harder than ever to get it actually seen,
like to cut through the noise. As you say, there's
so much out there, and so there is a democratization
of filmmaking. I do think it depends on my mood,
(32:36):
Like I think that at times where I have this
weird mood. I was totally serious about this. My wife
still doesn't believe me, but I said, like, if I
didn't get any way to make a third movie, I
almost want to like set up this table in the
garage and make like a stop motion movie. And she
says like, well, I don't think you realize like that
would probably take forever. I'm like, yeah, I probably would
take like seven years by myself working a lot. But
(32:59):
then like I I still rather do that than never
create anything ever again. So I try to look at
the positive is that there's a lot of you know,
opportunity as you said too, and you just have to
find a way to get your work out there and
kind of separate yourself sure that you know what you're doing,
you know, and you can make stories relate to. So
(33:20):
I try to remain optimistic, but you know, in any
artistic field, you have your dark moments where you're just like, oh,
this is never gonna work out. What am I gonna do?
What if it doesn't, what am I doing with the
rest of my life?
Speaker 1 (33:30):
You know that kind of thing, one last little tiny
thing when you have those dark moments, I'm not looking
like a deep personal Are there little tricks you do
to kind of lift you out? Maybe even a movie
you watched there or a song that kind of, you know,
picks your spirits back up?
Speaker 5 (33:47):
Yeah, I mean sometimes like I try to reframe things
and think also like how far I've come that at
one point in high school I couldn't even imagine how
you would make them, how you direct, and then to
kind of think like, well, I mean, worst case scenario,
I've directed two movies. That's two more than most people.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, that's a great way.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
I have this wonderful experience, you know, something I'm proud of.
And so I try to reframe it like that, or
I just kind of remind myself it's like it's the
creation I love. And maybe I won't be able to
go make another feature, but I can go make short films,
or I can I can write scripts. I can be
involved in some way that doesn't cost a lot of money.
(34:28):
Maybe it won't be quite a fulfilling, but I always
try to remind myself that My attitude when I was
younger was like, you've got to be like the two
one thousand. Even if you get blown to bits, you're
gonna get back up and you're gonna keep going and
you're not taking out for an answer until you don't
have a pulse anymore. Basically, you know, and you know
the people.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
The people who have that attitude are the ones who
can say I've made a movie, I've made two movie
at three and three movies, and the the people who
don't have that attitude, and God bless them. Everyone has
their own path. They go into different endeavors, so and
there's nothing wrong with that. But you've got two movies.
I suspect you've got more in the way.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
But Jonathan, thanks to Jordan.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
The show, I really appreciate your time and your tenacity.
I was a fledgling art major back in the day.
I went to three different art schools. Wanted to be
a comic book artist. It did not pan out, but
my plan b I'm pretty happy with it, and I'm
glad that you're kind of telling that kind of story
because I think it is important. The movie is The
Comic Shop. It's opening April eleventh on video on demand
(35:24):
platforms all over. It could be you know, Google, it
could be Apple, it could be Amazon, wherever you're finding
those kinds of films. Check it out, give it an order,
give it a try. I think you'll like it and
we appreciate your time.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Your character actor of the week is Francis Conroy. Well,
that's it for the show this week. Again, thank you
to Radio America for having me as part of their
great podcast lineup. And if you have a chance, check
out Hollywood Intoto dot com. Where now and it's eleventh
year celebrated ten year anniversary last time around. Now it's
all about the right take on entertainment.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Much like this podcast. It is updated seven days a week.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
News reviews, commentary, interviews, everything about Hollywood that Maybe you're
not seeing in Variety or a deadline or the Hollywood Reporter,
but you should.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I do.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Hope you check it out, But for now, I hope
everyone has a wonderful week that is Doctor's Orders,
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