April 26, 2025 • 34 mins
In this hard-hitting episode, we unpack the growing hypocrisy at the heart of celebrity activism. A major Broadway star recently issued a highly publicized plea for tolerance—but does her rhetoric hold up? We explore how her statements clash with her actions, and how they reflect a broader pattern of Hollywood elites fueling the very Cancel Culture they claim to condemn. From silencing dissent to enforcing ideological conformity, celebrities have become key players in the war on free speech.
One rare exception? Comedian Bill Maher, who dared to reach across the aisle in today’s polarized climate—and was immediately savaged by one of Hollywood’s biggest names for doing so.
Then, we shift gears with an insightful conversation featuring veteran film critic Peter Chattaway, as we explore the powerful rise of faith-based storytelling in modern media. From the impact of "The King of Kings" to the cultural phenomenon that is "The Chosen," we dig into why these stories are resonating now more than ever—and what might be coming next in this growing space.
🔥 In this episode:
The contradiction in Broadway’s call for “tolerance”
How celebrities helped ignite Cancel Culture Bill Maher’s controversial stand—and Hollywood’s reaction
The rise of faith-based entertainment and its mainstream appeal
Insightful commentary from Peter Chattaway on faith, film, and what’s ahead
--------------------------
Peter Chattaway: Thoughts and Spoilers: https://petertchattaway.substack.com
Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto
Read Hollywood in Toto - https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
One rare exception? Comedian Bill Maher, who dared to reach across the aisle in today’s polarized climate—and was immediately savaged by one of Hollywood’s biggest names for doing so.
Then, we shift gears with an insightful conversation featuring veteran film critic Peter Chattaway, as we explore the powerful rise of faith-based storytelling in modern media. From the impact of "The King of Kings" to the cultural phenomenon that is "The Chosen," we dig into why these stories are resonating now more than ever—and what might be coming next in this growing space.
🔥 In this episode:
The contradiction in Broadway’s call for “tolerance”
How celebrities helped ignite Cancel Culture Bill Maher’s controversial stand—and Hollywood’s reaction
The rise of faith-based entertainment and its mainstream appeal
Insightful commentary from Peter Chattaway on faith, film, and what’s ahead
--------------------------
Peter Chattaway: Thoughts and Spoilers: https://petertchattaway.substack.com
Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto
Read Hollywood in Toto - https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week in Hollywood and Total Podcast, we learn what
happens when you try to reach across the aisle in Hollywood.
It ain't pretty. And we talked to film critic Peter
Chataway about the state of faith based filmmaking The Chosen,
The King of Kings, House of David. There's a lot
of change swirling around this particular genre, lot of it
(00:21):
for the good. Peter explains what's happening and what we
might expect next. Welcome to the Hollywood and Total Podcast.
Entertainment news and reviews without doubt, woke Hollywood, narrative, free speech,
free expression.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Now that's entertainment, and here's your host. Oh Lord.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Winning film critic Courstian Toto Patty Lapone wants us all
to get along. The Broadway legend recently opened up to
George Clooney, himself a star on Broadway thanks to good
Night and good Luck, about the sorry state of our
United States. Here's what she had to say. What I
(01:09):
don't understand about all of this in this country is
that we can't seem to have dissenting views. You're labeled
a communist, you're labeled a fascist. She's right, there's no
denying it. Good for her encircle gets the square. And
then I did a quick Google search on Patty Lapone
and found some things which were a little inflammatory. Turns
out that she previously compared Christians on the right to
(01:33):
al qada. That's a little nasty. That's a little bit
more than saying you have a dissenting point of view.
It's ugly. She also invoked the attack on Senator ran Paul,
a Conservative, by his neighbor that happened a few years ago.
Ran Paul lost part of his lung. He nearly died
from that exchange. It was pretty ugly, and she basically
(01:56):
shrugged her shoulders over it and said maybe that guy
had the right idea. She shared that on Twitter. Kind
of ugly, and she said some other things as well,
which are less than an inclusive let's just put it
that way. So I don't think she's really practiced what
she's preaching right now, and shame on her for that.
(02:17):
Maybe in a hypocrite is what it is. But I
think you have to stand back a bit and say
it's not just a Patty Lapone, it's people like Patti Lapone.
The modern left. The modern left is absolutely responsible for
two things which have shut down debate, woke and cancel culture.
(02:37):
There's no denying it. There may be a person or
two on the right who's been part of that toxic trend.
Generally speaking, when it comes to woke and cancel culture
and shutting down opposing views, it's the left doing it.
It's Patty Lapone's left. Think about how many conservatives have
graced college campuses and been treated less than fairly, screamed off, campus,
(03:02):
shut down, physically attacked. I don't think they want dissenting views,
do you? Or maybe a perfect example is Riley Gaines.
Riley Gaines has spoken out against having trans women in
competing against biological women. She's walked the walk, She's seen
what happens firsthand when this occurs, and she's against it.
(03:26):
So what happens when she pops up in a public forum, Well,
it's not pretty. Those weren't Charlie Kirk fans who were
chasing her down and trying to silence her by any
means necessary. It was Patty Lapone. Types that's what's going
on in the country right now, and the fact that
she can't see that it's unbelievable. But I want to
(03:47):
bring up maybe the perfect example of where dissenting views
reaching across the aisle. Someone has done that, someone has
actually carved out a special niche in his career to
do just that. And he's a person on the left.
It's Bill Maher. Bill Maher has been scorching President Donald
Trump for ten years now. He's been attacking conservatives for
(04:09):
that long. He says he'll never vote for Republicans. And
yet as much as he hates Donald Trump, he recently
broke bread with Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Could you pass the salt?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Of course that made a lot of news headlines, understandably so,
and you could agree or disagree with what he said afterwards,
but he did it. He reached out, he tried, he
tried to get along. It's what he's been doing for
quite some time now. He's been talking to people like
Kid Rock, Dave Rubin. We just mentioned Riley Gaines. He
(04:40):
had her in her show. He has been aggressively courting
people on the right and having fair and honest and
open dialogues with them. And sometimes they disagree, and sometimes
the voices raise a little bit, but at the end
of the day they emerge his friends and probably a
little stronger as a result. It's a wonderful thing. And
while my fellow conservatives are often thinking, ah, that Bill
(05:02):
Maher all he does is bash Republicans. Well, there's certainly
truth to that. But can't you appreciate what he's been doing? Well,
you know what, not everyone can. And one person actually
seems to be not a fan of Bill Maher's outreach efforts.
His name is Larry David, and he recently took to
the pages of the New York Times, pretty big newspaper,
(05:24):
to call Bill Maher hitler for having dinner with the
real Hitler, Donald Trump. Now that op ed is important
for a couple of reasons. One is it might be
the first time that Larry David has been this screechingly unfunny.
That's pretty rare. Dude's a comedy genius, for sure. I
also thought that Bill Maher's response to that op ed
(05:44):
was more or less perfect. The minute you played the
Hitler chords, you've lost the argument. Yes, But I wonder
if all this will pierce Patty Lapone's liberal bubble. Does
she realize that Bill Maher has been doing exactly what
she's been asking for for such a long time. Does
she realize that he was swatted down in a very
(06:04):
public forum by a very big star. Does she realize
that he's trying to hear and promote the exchange of
dissenting views exactly what she said? I don't think so.
I don't think that really crossed her mind. I just don't.
I think she's all talk and it's a shame because
we need more talk. But she's maybe not a fan
(06:26):
of it. About a decade ago, I visited a setup,
not one, but two faith based films, Mom's Not Out
and Cage No More Man. So much has changed since
then now. Both those films didn't make a splash at
(06:49):
the box office, more like a ripple. I guess you
could say, didn't cut through the zeitgeist. It happens. No
fault with these particular films, but faith baithed movies Back then,
it wasn't quite as robust as it is now, and boy,
is it as robust as possible when you think about it.
In recent weeks, you've seen a hit like The King
of Kings and Theaters with a lot of big names
(07:11):
in the cast, including Ben Kingsley. House of David is
on Prime video doing quite well. They just I think
they just greenlit a second season that was pretty quick.
The Chosen is an absolute sensation. Not only is it
very popular, not only has it spread across the globe,
but they keep putting the show into theaters and people
(07:33):
keep coming to see it in drows, big, big numbers. Again,
this is a TV show. If you want to see it,
you could wait a few more weeks. It'll pop up
on your small screen. But no, the fan base needs
to see it and needs to see it now. This
space is changing, it's growing, it's maturing, and even big
players like Netflix and Prime Video they want to get
(07:54):
on board too. It's why I wanted to invite Peter
Chataway on the show. I've known Peter for years digital Sense.
We follow each other on social media. He's a film
critic and historian, and he kind of gets and understands
the film space. We're talking about faith based storytelling.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I know there are equipples here. Some people don't like
the term faith based. I mean, most of America is
faith based, and we're not really labeled as such. But
I think for the purposes of this conversation, we'll kind
of use that label and stick with it. Peter talks
about some of these shows why they're successful, what we
might see next, and much more in this conversation. I
do hope you enjoy it, and a quick caveat if
(08:34):
I look a little disheveled in this video, not that
I'm ever Marquie beautiful, but if a little bit look
a little bit under the weather, it's because I was
under the weather. I've had a nasty coal for about
a week. I didn't want to put off my interview
with Peter jadaway, so I just charged ahead with it.
But I'm a mess. I look a mess. I apologize.
(08:54):
I don't even know what I sound like, but I'm
sure the questions are perfectly audible. But just know that
I was not at my best and I apologize. But
as they say in Hollywood, the show must go on. Peter,
thanks for joining the show. You know, I really wanted
to talk to you about faith based storytelling in general.
You know this area quite well, and it's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
About a decade or so ago, I was on the
set of Mom's Night Out and also Cage No More.
I think it was just Caged at the time, as
with Kevin Sorbo. The other one was with Patricia Heaton
and you know, that was really the infancy of this
kind of storytelling. Obviously there have been epic films in
the past, but sort of what we're looking at now
(09:36):
is this overtly faith based, faith friendly, you know, small budgets,
the acting could be a little rough on the edges,
to be kind, and you know, to go from there
and to see where we are today, it's pretty remarkable
from your perspective, How would you kind of gauge the growth?
What do you think is happening with this genre right now?
(09:58):
And I know even people don't even like the term
faith based because a lot of people are people of
faith and why should you label it? But we'll push
that aside for now.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, well, I mean faith based is a bit of
a euphemism. It's usually refers to Christian film, but then
that gets you into all sorts of interesting discussions like
what is Christian and what isn't? And I mean it's
very often been associated with evangelical Christian film, but if
there's a lot of crossover now between Evangelicals and Catholics.
You know, The Passion of the Christ was a massive hit,
a very Catholic film, but it was very embraced by Evangelicals,
(10:31):
and now you have The Chosen, which is directed by
an evangelical, but the star of the show is Catholics.
So and then, to make it even more complicated, the
Chosen was originally produced by Angel Studios, which has some
LDS affiliation, and that was very controversial for some of
the fans of the show, and so Dallas Jenkins has
had to go out of his way to say that
I'm the one in charge, I make the decisions, don't
worry about what anybody else thinks theologically, and it's anyway,
(10:55):
and of course, and it begs the question, what about
Jewish or Muslim films? I mean, are those faith based
or his face anyway, that's that's a whole definition all
I could talk definitions forever. Mom's Night Out. It's interesting
that your your memory goes back that far, because for me,
the whole faith based thing goes back, like back to
the nineties. I don't know if you remember this, but
the first faith based film to crack the top ten
(11:17):
at the box office was The Omega Code in nineteen
ninety nine, and it did it on only a few
hundred screens. And I remember at the time it was
like a big yeah, I was reading Entertainment Weekly at
the time. I was just getting started as a film
critic myself. I had just finished university a couple of
years earlier, and I remember there was this sort of buzz.
There was like, wait, what is this? What is this
(11:38):
omega code? What is you know? And it's it's a
very It's not a great film, but it does have
a juicy, what's the word, A wonderfully hammy performance by
Michael Yorke as the Antichrist. He's wonder it's it's you know,
as bad films go, it's kind of entertaining on that level.
But but the fact is, with just a few hundred
screens it cracked the top. And so it got a
(12:01):
sequel a couple of years later, and the sequel bombed.
But and then, of course, that was around the time
The Prince of Egypt had come out. And I wouldn't
call The Prince of Egypt the faith based film, because
to me, it feels very mainstream, but it is based
on the Bible, and Jeffrey Katzenberg went out of his
way to reach out to Jewish, Christian, and Muslim moviegoers
to make sure that the film would appeal to all
(12:21):
three faiths, and it was only like five years later
that the Passion of the Christ came out and it
was massive and it got people thinking. But then, you know,
Hollywood wasn't used to this, and so after Passion of
the Christ, well, how do we replicate this? What lessons
do we take from this? And so it took some
years before they finally began to find other things to do.
(12:43):
In twenty thirteen, you had the Bible Mini series, which
was huge on the History Channel, and so huge. I mean,
The Chosen is a big success in its own way,
but I mean think back to twenty fourteen. The Bible
Mini series was so big that they took the last
five episodes and re edited them into a feature film
(13:04):
about Jesus called Son of God, and that film, which
consisted almost entirely of footage that people had already seen
at home, grossed sixty million bucks. Wow, like, and it
was essentially a reissue of a TV series, like you know,
The Chosen. The Chosen's made like one hundred million or
so now, but that's because they've put out eight different things.
(13:25):
But the Son of God all on its own, grossed
sixty million eleven years ago. So that that was massive.
And then after twenty fourteen, and then there was a
brief flurry. In twenty sixteen you had Risen in the
Young Messiah. There was a remake of Ben her that
flopped because it wasn't very good. And then after twenty
sixteen the biblical things sort of faded away. But then
(13:49):
very shortly after that, the Irwin Brothers made I can
only imagine, and that was massive. And then the Irwin
Brothers struck their deal with Lionsgates. So suddenly you had
a faith based production company that had a solid mainstream distributor.
Lionsgate isn't one of the major distributors like Warner or Sony,
but it's it's there's another word for it, like I
(14:12):
forget the exact word, but it's it's almost major. It's
big enough. It's it's it's the studio behind Hunger Games
and John Wick. So they've, you know, they they they've
they've got box office clout when they when they need it.
And and so the your One brothers have been working
with Lionsgate ever since. And so that they did Jesus
Revolution and the best Christmas pageant ever, and and along
(14:33):
the way they've you know, more and more actors, uh,
mainstream actors getting involved in some of these projects. I
have to thank you. Actually, by the way, I don't
follow the comedy scene anywhere near to the degree that
you do, but because of you, because of your podcast,
I checked out the show Crashing with Pete Holmes. Oh yeah,
(14:54):
and after so when when Pete Holmes was cast and
the best Christmas pageant ever, I could go, ah, I
know who that is, and I could see why he
would be interested in that project and why they would
be interested in him.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So yeah, I mean I thought it was interesting when
it was a Jennifer Garner was in Heaven Is for Real.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
No Miracles from Heaven.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah miracle Sorry, Yeh's.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
A similar title. But Greg Greg Kinnere was in Heaven
Is for Real.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
But those felt like moments in a way that these
these fairly mainstream actors were kind of getting involved with
those movies because up until then it was he just
didn't recognize a lot of the faces. I mean, I
look at this space and think, I don't want to
pick on names, and I just think it's maturing. Like
I think that the people you make enough movies, you
(15:39):
get better and better and you know. I mean I
thought that the Best Christmas Patchet ever was a wonderful
film and no reservations like that was a wonderful movie,
a sweet movie, and I don't think that would be
possible ten years ago. So I think it's that I
think big actors. I think, you know, the House of
David is with Prime Video Netflix. I'm not sure what
their projects are exactly, but I think.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
They're doing something in the faith based space as well. Yeah. Well,
the House of David thing is interesting because according to
gen Rew, when he was given complete creative control of it,
which it's kind of amazing that like a major streamer
like that would greenlight a thing like that and give
him that kind of control. If that's accurate, and I
have no reason to doubt that it is, that is
kind of amazing. The Netflix, well Netflix is interesting Netflix.
(16:24):
Uh there, they have started dipping their toe this in
these waters as well. Like last year they had a
docu series about Moses, and it was another sort of
interfaith when they had they had talking heads from Jewish,
Christian and Muslim backgrounds, but it was a biblical you know,
subject matter, and it was it did really well, you know,
they released it before passover last year, and and then
(16:48):
they bought a film called Mary, which is a sort
of a Nativity movie, and that one came out in
December and it was a big hit for like a
week or two, and then it sort of fell off
because that it's a very strange movie. It's there are
things that I find interesting about it, but it's.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
It's uh uh, it's like the Nativity as action movie,
where you know, Joseph is literally like taking up arms
against people who are trying to chase the Holy Family.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And it's not not your standard sort of thing. But
you know, they start they struck a deal with Tyler Perry.
He's going to be making a movie called R and B,
which is a modernization of the Book of Ruth. And
about a year or two ago they hired a guy
named Dan Lin to oversee their film. And I'm curious
to see what effect this has on things, because Dan
(17:36):
Lynn I don't know about right now, Like I hate
to talk about people's private beliefs and so forth. But
Dan Lynn has given interviews, like in the New York
Times he described himself as religious, and he's spoken at
Viola and he's like he's he seems to be faith
affiliated in some way. And and after he arrived at Netflix,
(17:56):
he he restructured the the company and you know, gave
his vice president's various titles and one of them is
in charge of faith based So that's actually a genre
that Netflix under this new leadership is now recognizing. Yeah,
but we're still sort of waiting to see what comes
up out.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Well, I want to talk about The Chosen. You know,
from the jump, I saw the first couple of seasons.
I just had I've drifted away. I just kind of
I have a lot of content to watch for my job.
But I enjoyed that as it was well done. I
think the reviews were solid. I mean, I don't see
any sort of creative drop off. And you kind of
mentioned this a little bit where there was some friction,
you know, who's making this series, what is the point
(18:34):
of view? But I feel like in our age where
we're angry about everything, that really has not been the
dominating conversation. It's just like, we love The Chosen. It's
got a rabbit fan base that people will go out
and see it in theaters because they want to see
it before the you know, before debuts on their small
screen app talk about what's working there, because it really,
(18:55):
I mean, it seems like everything's working for lack of
a better phrase, but you.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Can be a work with me. When something gets that large,
there's more opportunities for friction, and various controversies have erupted,
and some of them I only hear about because Dallas
Jenkins puts out videos responding to the controversies, and I think, oh,
that was a controversy. I had no idea. Even the
fact that they're putting the show out in theaters has
been controversial because there are a number of fans who
(19:21):
either can't afford to see it in theaters or I
mean initially, I think even now the current season, only
part one is playing overseas in theaters because there just
wasn't a big enough audience. There's always a drop off,
like Part one has a certain level, then Part two
and three, and apparently Part one overseas only opens so
high compared to what it does in America. So overseas
(19:44):
they're just not even bothering with parts two and three.
So if you're a fan of The Chosen overseas, you
have to wait for streaming. Meanwhile, fans in North America
have seen it on the big screen, and all the
spoilers are out there and you have to hide you
have to hide it from the spoilers. And so there's
there's already some the fan base just around things like that,
because it used to be the first two or three seasons,
(20:04):
it used to be that Dallas would host live streams
on YouTube or Facebook and all the fans could gather
together and experience the episode for the first time together.
And so the fact that they're doing theatrical screenings for
some people has been a break from that communal tradition.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, you know, you mentioned somebody that I think is interesting.
The fact that Dallas Jenkins is so transparent, so eager
to talk to his fans directly. Maybe that's kind of
cut off some of the some of the controversy at
the Knees in a sense because you know, some listen,
we all fight if they make a silver surf for
a woman instead of a man, we all freak out
for a couple of months. And I don't discount that
(20:43):
there have been some arguments behind the scenes or with fans,
but it doesn't overwhelm the project.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I don't think, you know, I don't think so. I mean,
I do think. I mean, there are times I think
the makers of the show are a little too transparent.
There are times I'd be happy to just sort of
experience the story and sort of soak it in and
interpret it for myself. And sometimes I feel like, you know,
the chosen social media presence is always saying you will
feel this, you will you know. It's like, no, let
(21:10):
me let me feel it the way I want to
feel it. So yeah, but it's it's something we've never
really seen before, like a like an ongoing series, people
speculating what's going to happen in the next season. I mean,
we've just never seen that before, and it gets it
gets weird though, you know, as a lifelong Christian, I
(21:31):
feel a bit weird when I see people talking about
how they're shipping the Disciples, you know, ooh, is something
going to happen between Matthew and Mary Magdalene. And it's like,
I mean, these are actual historical figures and I've never
thought about them this way, but now we're treating them
the same way we treat like, you know, characters on
Star Trek or whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You know. I think that when you think about pop culture,
I've been arguing for decades that it matters. And I
always mentioned the racial haircut from Friends. Everyone on the
racial haircut. And the reason why a lot of storytellers
put messages in their movies and TV shows is they
want to They want to shape public opinion, they want
to kind of alter it in any way. Is there
(22:11):
any way to quantify what a show like The Chosen
has meant the culture at large? It's a wildly unfair question,
but I just want to get any thoughts you have
on that. I mean, listen, if you're a Christian, you're
enjoying the show. It's quality entertainment, it speaks to your values.
I get that, But is it possible it's also roping
in other people who maybe their faith isn't that strong,
(22:33):
and all of a sudden, they're watching episode after episode
and they're reevaluating things.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
That's what I hear. I mean, they like, you know,
people who aren't Christian or haven't thought about it. Apparently
a lot of them do watch the show and like
the show. The show is trying to be. I mean,
the show has a very distinctive style, but it's also
trying to be sort of an all things to all
people like it just like it's it's it has carefully
avoided certain controversies, like certain topics that would divide different
(23:01):
groups of Christians, for example, and it's it's steered clear
as some of that. And and because the fan base
is so huge, I mean, people take away different things
from the show. You know, it's hard to say what
It's hard to say that there's any one effect that
the show is having aside from simply raising the profile
(23:21):
of this kind of material. I'm avoiding the word content.
I have to. I must, I religiously avoid the word content.
But I think I can say material, this kind of material,
that's fine. And and certainly you know the fact that
I mean, I think it's it's been interesting to see
how said David now come along? Because how said David
apparently is really big as well. How said David is
(23:42):
very different from the chosen It has some overlap stylistically.
I mean, I'm a nitpicker for grammar and idioms and things,
and so when I when I hear characters in Bible
movies say things like you keep telling yourself that okay,
which is what? Which is what somebody said? And house
said David, I think, oh, nobody said, okay back then, Yeah, yeah,
(24:04):
I know that nobody spoke English either, but you know,
you can bend and you can break, and there's.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
A there's a spell you cast and if you kind
of used it mop yeah, idiot, it does definitely.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah. Charlton Heston had a lot of praise for the
writer on the final A lot of script polisher on
Ben Hurd because he chose phrases that sounded a little
exotic but not too exotic. You can understand them, but
they anyway, whatever, that's a whole other subject.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I was interesting, But how said.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
David's very different though, in the fact that houseid David
really leans into being like a fantasy series, with Goliath
being super massive. I mean, I would argue much more
massive than he is in the Bible. But it also leaned,
but it leans into other things that are in the
Bible about angels coming down and mating with human women.
(24:52):
That's in Genesis six. And it also brings in Jewish
legends that I actually had never heard before until I
saw House of David, and I wondered, where did that
come from? So you know, apparently, you know, in the
Book of Ruth, Naomi has two daughters in law Ruth
and Orpah. And I don't know if you know this,
but Orpa is where Oprah gets her name from. Yeah, yeah,
(25:12):
And Ruth is the daughter in law who comes with
Naomi back to Bethlehem, back to Judea, and Orpah is
the daughter in law who stays in Moab. Well, apparently
in Jewish tradition, Orpa became the mother of Goliath's that's
in some of the traditions, and so in House of David,
Orpa is the mother of Goliath and his brothers. I
had never encountered this before, and even the way it
(25:35):
shows the angels and the humans mating when it has
a big flashback. In episode six, they introduced one or
two details that come from the Book of Enoch, which
is another nondiblicult text. And so House of David is
made by Christians. I believe it's accurate to call them
evangelical Christians. But it's bringing in a lot of Jewish
legends and mixing it in there, and which I think
(25:58):
is really interesting. And that's certainly probably what I would
have done if I were making the show, but not
too long ago that would have been very controversial. Yeah,
for a Christian fan base, you know, like like, what
is this non biblical stuff doing in there? And well, maybe.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Maybe the audience is maturing along with the storytellers as well,
where we're more fore giving, more accepting, where you know,
we're kind of embracing creative license.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So we're talking about lions Gate, We're talking about Netflix
Prime Video. These are all major players and they're getting
in the space. But I've been covering this for years
and you have as well, obviously, and there have been
roadblocks along the way. Uh, there have been actors who
are a little reticent to say the least of sharing
that they are people of faith. I could go on
and on. I mean, you know, Kevin Sorbo is a
classic example. It's a Christian conservative. Any he lost his
(26:43):
agent doesn't work in Hollywood anymore. So are there roadblocks
still remaining in this space? I mean, obviously there's a
lot of progress, But what are what's what's happening now?
And how would you kind of gauge it.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Roadblocks? I don't know. I mean, you know, people who
make movies want to make money, and the more money
they spend making things they want to, the more incentive
they have to make sure they get the money back.
So people will tend to avoid certain controversies. And I mean,
you can see this some of the biggest faith based
(27:16):
hits I've actually been a little critical of for avoiding
certain controversies. And you know, Jesus Revolution was one of
the biggest recent faith based hits. And one of the
main characters in that film is a guy who in
real life was sort of living a double life, and
(27:36):
as he was ministering, he also had this sort of
secret lifestyle. And around nineteen ninety he died of aides
And I knew all about this because there was a
documentary about him about twenty years ago. A friend of
mine made that documentary called Frisbee, The Life and Death
of a Hippie Preacher. So when Jesus Revolution came along,
it just it's treatment of that character felt very sanitized
(27:58):
to me, you know. The it didn't directly mention any
of that. And the closest that got was when the
character said, well, when I lived in San Francisco, we
did everything in everyone, which is a very which is
a very generalized comment, you know, And because I think
I think the filmmakers might have been reluctant to sort
(28:19):
of introduce how complicated that guy's story was to their audience.
But also I think so there's there's the Christian audience
to beware of, and I think they also maybe didn't
want to offend perhaps the non Christian audience, which which
might think that, well, if you're going to approach certain topics,
you have to do it a certain way. And so
I think I think there was a tendency to sort
(28:40):
of play it safer on certain issues.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
One last question?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Is there anything kind of on the horizon that you're
looking forward to seeing in this in this sort of space, projects,
TV shows, movies, or anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Ah? Yeah, I uh, I'm going to mention two. I
think I can only think of two for sure right now.
But one of them is what's up? Two's good? Two
is good? Okay? Well, three is like the Holy number.
That's what you want, that's what you want to do.
But yeah, there's a show called The Promised Land. Have
(29:16):
you seen They released one episode, like a pilot episode
last summer. Okay. One of the assistant directors on The
Chosen has has started a series called The Promised Land.
He did a pilot episode on He put it out
on YouTube. You can watch it now on YouTube last
summer and he's now finished shooting the first season. He
got money for the first season. A few actors from
(29:38):
The Chosen are in it. And the concept behind it is,
what if you did Moses in the Exodus, like after
they crossed the Red Sea, once they're trudging across the desert.
What if you did Moses and the journey to the
Promised Land in the style of the Office. And so
it's it's sort of a mockumentary and it's very deadpan,
you know, it's the I interviewed the director of the
(30:02):
show and he said that basically the idea behind the
show was, you have a you have, like Moses, a
leader who doesn't want to lead, leading a people who
don't want to be led. And so it's I mean,
I'm very curious to see where future episodes go. The
first episode was brilliant because it got into Jethro's visit
(30:22):
to Moses, which is in the book Book of Exodus,
chapter something. It's between the Red Sea and Mount Sinai
some in there, and the fact that Moses was taking
leadership advice from his father in law. You know, it's
sort of it just lends itself to that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
The other thing that I'm very curious about is a
(30:43):
movie coming out around Christmas from the director of Sound
of Freedom. It's called Zero a D. And I don't
like that title because there is no year zero. I'm sorry,
I'm a history buff. In the calendar it goes from
one BC to a D one, there is no year
zero and that so it plugs me that the title.
The movie had a working title of Bethlehem, and they
(31:04):
announced the new title just a week ago, so this
is a week or two ago, so this is still
sort of a fresh wound for me. But but basically
it's from the director of Sound of Freedom and it's
it's another sort of action movie. Well not action movie,
but it thriller is the word they've used. It's a
thriller take on the Nativity. It looks like Jim Caviezel
(31:25):
is playing King Herod, but he's got like Colin Farrell
as the penguin makeup on if I if I'm if
I'm reading the trailer correctly, and Sam Worthington plays Herod's
son and and the imagery in the trailer is fantastic,
and I'm I'm very curious to see how that is.
(31:47):
I just wish they'd picked a you know, a title.
It's like years ago, there was a movie, I forget
the exact title that was called Krakatawa East of Java
or something, and in real life it's actually west of
or maybe I got it reverse, but it's it's one
of those things that like fans of bad movies like
to talk about the fact that the title got the
geography wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
That's right, but that it reminds me when I was
a kid someone I don't know if this is a
true story. They were trying to sell a Chevrolet car
in uh maybe Mexico or Spanic country.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Again.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
They were selling the Nova, the Nova, and Nova means
don't go or don't don't you know, So you know, there.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Are a cultural bubble.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But listen, we have a lot of times, you know,
right December.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
But they met but they met Nova in the Latin
sense meaning new right or I think it's not. I
think it's Latin. Anyway, it means new Nova Scotia and
New Scotland. That's sort of okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Anyway, Well, Peter, thank you, so much for joining the
show and sharing these perspectives. I really I have not
been dipping a toe in the faith based material area
for a while, and I knew you'd kind of bring it,
and I really do appreciate that. And you could check
out your substec page It's Thoughts and Spoilers. I love
that title to get your thoughts on pop culture, faith
(32:53):
based films, and much more. You're You're a very keen
and savvy person when it comes to the space, and
I appreciate your sort of dispassionate point of you.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
You're even when.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You're offended by certain grammatical errors, you you.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Stick to You stick to the.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Facts, and that's always important. But thanks again, And now
let's let's touch base. Touch base closer to the end
of the year, when that particular film.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Is about the hit theaters. Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Your character actor of the week is David Keith. Well
that's it for the show this week. Again, I am
recovering from a nasty bug boy. When you have a
one man operation like Hollywood in Toto, Inc. You just
can't afford that. I've been a bit of an iron
man in recent years. I never get sick. My whole
family gets sick around me. When COVID came, I never
(33:36):
got it, but boy, this particular bug really kicked my butt.
So apologize if I've been less than prolific in recent days.
But I am back to mostly full strength. And of
course if you can't do check out Hollywoodintoto dot com.
It is my website. It is now eleven years old.
It is like the show The Right Take in entertainment.
It's updated seven days a week. I think I I
(33:57):
might have missed a day or two. I kind of
use the Easter holiday is an excuse, but generally speaking
it is updated seven days a week. News and reviews, commentary,
all sorts of fun things, guest posts from artists who
are trying to get their message to the masses. You
name it, it's their Hollywoodintoto dot com. And of course
thank you to Radio America for having me as part
of their excellent podcast lineup. And I will see you
(34:19):
all next week. Be good, be kind, have a wonderful weekend.
That's doctors orders
This week in Hollywood and Total Podcast, we learn what
happens when you try to reach across the aisle in Hollywood.
It ain't pretty. And we talked to film critic Peter
Chataway about the state of faith based filmmaking The Chosen,
The King of Kings, House of David. There's a lot
of change swirling around this particular genre, lot of it
(00:21):
for the good. Peter explains what's happening and what we
might expect next. Welcome to the Hollywood and Total Podcast.
Entertainment news and reviews without doubt, woke Hollywood, narrative, free speech,
free expression.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Now that's entertainment, and here's your host. Oh Lord.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Winning film critic Courstian Toto Patty Lapone wants us all
to get along. The Broadway legend recently opened up to
George Clooney, himself a star on Broadway thanks to good
Night and good Luck, about the sorry state of our
United States. Here's what she had to say. What I
(01:09):
don't understand about all of this in this country is
that we can't seem to have dissenting views. You're labeled
a communist, you're labeled a fascist. She's right, there's no
denying it. Good for her encircle gets the square. And
then I did a quick Google search on Patty Lapone
and found some things which were a little inflammatory. Turns
out that she previously compared Christians on the right to
(01:33):
al qada. That's a little nasty. That's a little bit
more than saying you have a dissenting point of view.
It's ugly. She also invoked the attack on Senator ran Paul,
a Conservative, by his neighbor that happened a few years ago.
Ran Paul lost part of his lung. He nearly died
from that exchange. It was pretty ugly, and she basically
(01:56):
shrugged her shoulders over it and said maybe that guy
had the right idea. She shared that on Twitter. Kind
of ugly, and she said some other things as well,
which are less than an inclusive let's just put it
that way. So I don't think she's really practiced what
she's preaching right now, and shame on her for that.
(02:17):
Maybe in a hypocrite is what it is. But I
think you have to stand back a bit and say
it's not just a Patty Lapone, it's people like Patti Lapone.
The modern left. The modern left is absolutely responsible for
two things which have shut down debate, woke and cancel culture.
(02:37):
There's no denying it. There may be a person or
two on the right who's been part of that toxic trend.
Generally speaking, when it comes to woke and cancel culture
and shutting down opposing views, it's the left doing it.
It's Patty Lapone's left. Think about how many conservatives have
graced college campuses and been treated less than fairly, screamed off, campus,
(03:02):
shut down, physically attacked. I don't think they want dissenting views,
do you? Or maybe a perfect example is Riley Gaines.
Riley Gaines has spoken out against having trans women in
competing against biological women. She's walked the walk, She's seen
what happens firsthand when this occurs, and she's against it.
(03:26):
So what happens when she pops up in a public forum, Well,
it's not pretty. Those weren't Charlie Kirk fans who were
chasing her down and trying to silence her by any
means necessary. It was Patty Lapone. Types that's what's going
on in the country right now, and the fact that
she can't see that it's unbelievable. But I want to
(03:47):
bring up maybe the perfect example of where dissenting views
reaching across the aisle. Someone has done that, someone has
actually carved out a special niche in his career to
do just that. And he's a person on the left.
It's Bill Maher. Bill Maher has been scorching President Donald
Trump for ten years now. He's been attacking conservatives for
(04:09):
that long. He says he'll never vote for Republicans. And
yet as much as he hates Donald Trump, he recently
broke bread with Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Could you pass the salt?
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Of course that made a lot of news headlines, understandably so,
and you could agree or disagree with what he said afterwards,
but he did it. He reached out, he tried, he
tried to get along. It's what he's been doing for
quite some time now. He's been talking to people like
Kid Rock, Dave Rubin. We just mentioned Riley Gaines. He
(04:40):
had her in her show. He has been aggressively courting
people on the right and having fair and honest and
open dialogues with them. And sometimes they disagree, and sometimes
the voices raise a little bit, but at the end
of the day they emerge his friends and probably a
little stronger as a result. It's a wonderful thing. And
while my fellow conservatives are often thinking, ah, that Bill
(05:02):
Maher all he does is bash Republicans. Well, there's certainly
truth to that. But can't you appreciate what he's been doing? Well,
you know what, not everyone can. And one person actually
seems to be not a fan of Bill Maher's outreach efforts.
His name is Larry David, and he recently took to
the pages of the New York Times, pretty big newspaper,
(05:24):
to call Bill Maher hitler for having dinner with the
real Hitler, Donald Trump. Now that op ed is important
for a couple of reasons. One is it might be
the first time that Larry David has been this screechingly unfunny.
That's pretty rare. Dude's a comedy genius, for sure. I
also thought that Bill Maher's response to that op ed
(05:44):
was more or less perfect. The minute you played the
Hitler chords, you've lost the argument. Yes, But I wonder
if all this will pierce Patty Lapone's liberal bubble. Does
she realize that Bill Maher has been doing exactly what
she's been asking for for such a long time. Does
she realize that he was swatted down in a very
(06:04):
public forum by a very big star. Does she realize
that he's trying to hear and promote the exchange of
dissenting views exactly what she said? I don't think so.
I don't think that really crossed her mind. I just don't.
I think she's all talk and it's a shame because
we need more talk. But she's maybe not a fan
(06:26):
of it. About a decade ago, I visited a setup,
not one, but two faith based films, Mom's Not Out
and Cage No More Man. So much has changed since
then now. Both those films didn't make a splash at
(06:49):
the box office, more like a ripple. I guess you
could say, didn't cut through the zeitgeist. It happens. No
fault with these particular films, but faith baithed movies Back then,
it wasn't quite as robust as it is now, and boy,
is it as robust as possible when you think about it.
In recent weeks, you've seen a hit like The King
of Kings and Theaters with a lot of big names
(07:11):
in the cast, including Ben Kingsley. House of David is
on Prime video doing quite well. They just I think
they just greenlit a second season that was pretty quick.
The Chosen is an absolute sensation. Not only is it
very popular, not only has it spread across the globe,
but they keep putting the show into theaters and people
(07:33):
keep coming to see it in drows, big, big numbers. Again,
this is a TV show. If you want to see it,
you could wait a few more weeks. It'll pop up
on your small screen. But no, the fan base needs
to see it and needs to see it now. This
space is changing, it's growing, it's maturing, and even big
players like Netflix and Prime Video they want to get
(07:54):
on board too. It's why I wanted to invite Peter
Chataway on the show. I've known Peter for years digital Sense.
We follow each other on social media. He's a film
critic and historian, and he kind of gets and understands
the film space. We're talking about faith based storytelling.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Now.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I know there are equipples here. Some people don't like
the term faith based. I mean, most of America is
faith based, and we're not really labeled as such. But
I think for the purposes of this conversation, we'll kind
of use that label and stick with it. Peter talks
about some of these shows why they're successful, what we
might see next, and much more in this conversation. I
do hope you enjoy it, and a quick caveat if
(08:34):
I look a little disheveled in this video, not that
I'm ever Marquie beautiful, but if a little bit look
a little bit under the weather, it's because I was
under the weather. I've had a nasty coal for about
a week. I didn't want to put off my interview
with Peter jadaway, so I just charged ahead with it.
But I'm a mess. I look a mess. I apologize.
(08:54):
I don't even know what I sound like, but I'm
sure the questions are perfectly audible. But just know that
I was not at my best and I apologize. But
as they say in Hollywood, the show must go on. Peter,
thanks for joining the show. You know, I really wanted
to talk to you about faith based storytelling in general.
You know this area quite well, and it's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
I guess.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
About a decade or so ago, I was on the
set of Mom's Night Out and also Cage No More.
I think it was just Caged at the time, as
with Kevin Sorbo. The other one was with Patricia Heaton
and you know, that was really the infancy of this
kind of storytelling. Obviously there have been epic films in
the past, but sort of what we're looking at now
(09:36):
is this overtly faith based, faith friendly, you know, small budgets,
the acting could be a little rough on the edges,
to be kind, and you know, to go from there
and to see where we are today, it's pretty remarkable
from your perspective, How would you kind of gauge the growth?
What do you think is happening with this genre right now?
(09:58):
And I know even people don't even like the term
faith based because a lot of people are people of
faith and why should you label it? But we'll push
that aside for now.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, well, I mean faith based is a bit of
a euphemism. It's usually refers to Christian film, but then
that gets you into all sorts of interesting discussions like
what is Christian and what isn't? And I mean it's
very often been associated with evangelical Christian film, but if
there's a lot of crossover now between Evangelicals and Catholics.
You know, The Passion of the Christ was a massive hit,
a very Catholic film, but it was very embraced by Evangelicals,
(10:31):
and now you have The Chosen, which is directed by
an evangelical, but the star of the show is Catholics.
So and then, to make it even more complicated, the
Chosen was originally produced by Angel Studios, which has some
LDS affiliation, and that was very controversial for some of
the fans of the show, and so Dallas Jenkins has
had to go out of his way to say that
I'm the one in charge, I make the decisions, don't
worry about what anybody else thinks theologically, and it's anyway,
(10:55):
and of course, and it begs the question, what about
Jewish or Muslim films? I mean, are those faith based
or his face anyway, that's that's a whole definition all
I could talk definitions forever. Mom's Night Out. It's interesting
that your your memory goes back that far, because for me,
the whole faith based thing goes back, like back to
the nineties. I don't know if you remember this, but
the first faith based film to crack the top ten
(11:17):
at the box office was The Omega Code in nineteen
ninety nine, and it did it on only a few
hundred screens. And I remember at the time it was
like a big yeah, I was reading Entertainment Weekly at
the time. I was just getting started as a film
critic myself. I had just finished university a couple of
years earlier, and I remember there was this sort of buzz.
There was like, wait, what is this? What is this
(11:38):
omega code? What is you know? And it's it's a
very It's not a great film, but it does have
a juicy, what's the word, A wonderfully hammy performance by
Michael Yorke as the Antichrist. He's wonder it's it's you know,
as bad films go, it's kind of entertaining on that level.
But but the fact is, with just a few hundred
screens it cracked the top. And so it got a
(12:01):
sequel a couple of years later, and the sequel bombed.
But and then, of course, that was around the time
The Prince of Egypt had come out. And I wouldn't
call The Prince of Egypt the faith based film, because
to me, it feels very mainstream, but it is based
on the Bible, and Jeffrey Katzenberg went out of his
way to reach out to Jewish, Christian, and Muslim moviegoers
to make sure that the film would appeal to all
(12:21):
three faiths, and it was only like five years later
that the Passion of the Christ came out and it
was massive and it got people thinking. But then, you know,
Hollywood wasn't used to this, and so after Passion of
the Christ, well, how do we replicate this? What lessons
do we take from this? And so it took some
years before they finally began to find other things to do.
(12:43):
In twenty thirteen, you had the Bible Mini series, which
was huge on the History Channel, and so huge. I mean,
The Chosen is a big success in its own way,
but I mean think back to twenty fourteen. The Bible
Mini series was so big that they took the last
five episodes and re edited them into a feature film
(13:04):
about Jesus called Son of God, and that film, which
consisted almost entirely of footage that people had already seen
at home, grossed sixty million bucks. Wow, like, and it
was essentially a reissue of a TV series, like you know,
The Chosen. The Chosen's made like one hundred million or
so now, but that's because they've put out eight different things.
(13:25):
But the Son of God all on its own, grossed
sixty million eleven years ago. So that that was massive.
And then after twenty fourteen, and then there was a
brief flurry. In twenty sixteen you had Risen in the
Young Messiah. There was a remake of Ben her that
flopped because it wasn't very good. And then after twenty
sixteen the biblical things sort of faded away. But then
(13:49):
very shortly after that, the Irwin Brothers made I can
only imagine, and that was massive. And then the Irwin
Brothers struck their deal with Lionsgates. So suddenly you had
a faith based production company that had a solid mainstream distributor.
Lionsgate isn't one of the major distributors like Warner or Sony,
but it's it's there's another word for it, like I
(14:12):
forget the exact word, but it's it's almost major. It's
big enough. It's it's it's the studio behind Hunger Games
and John Wick. So they've, you know, they they they've
they've got box office clout when they when they need it.
And and so the your One brothers have been working
with Lionsgate ever since. And so that they did Jesus
Revolution and the best Christmas pageant ever, and and along
(14:33):
the way they've you know, more and more actors, uh,
mainstream actors getting involved in some of these projects. I
have to thank you. Actually, by the way, I don't
follow the comedy scene anywhere near to the degree that
you do, but because of you, because of your podcast,
I checked out the show Crashing with Pete Holmes. Oh yeah,
(14:54):
and after so when when Pete Holmes was cast and
the best Christmas pageant ever, I could go, ah, I
know who that is, and I could see why he
would be interested in that project and why they would
be interested in him.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So yeah, I mean I thought it was interesting when
it was a Jennifer Garner was in Heaven Is for Real.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
No Miracles from Heaven.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah miracle Sorry, Yeh's.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
A similar title. But Greg Greg Kinnere was in Heaven
Is for Real.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
But those felt like moments in a way that these
these fairly mainstream actors were kind of getting involved with
those movies because up until then it was he just
didn't recognize a lot of the faces. I mean, I
look at this space and think, I don't want to
pick on names, and I just think it's maturing. Like
I think that the people you make enough movies, you
(15:39):
get better and better and you know. I mean I
thought that the Best Christmas Patchet ever was a wonderful
film and no reservations like that was a wonderful movie,
a sweet movie, and I don't think that would be
possible ten years ago. So I think it's that I
think big actors. I think, you know, the House of
David is with Prime Video Netflix. I'm not sure what
their projects are exactly, but I think.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
They're doing something in the faith based space as well. Yeah. Well,
the House of David thing is interesting because according to
gen Rew, when he was given complete creative control of it,
which it's kind of amazing that like a major streamer
like that would greenlight a thing like that and give
him that kind of control. If that's accurate, and I
have no reason to doubt that it is, that is
kind of amazing. The Netflix, well Netflix is interesting Netflix.
(16:24):
Uh there, they have started dipping their toe this in
these waters as well. Like last year they had a
docu series about Moses, and it was another sort of
interfaith when they had they had talking heads from Jewish,
Christian and Muslim backgrounds, but it was a biblical you know,
subject matter, and it was it did really well, you know,
they released it before passover last year, and and then
(16:48):
they bought a film called Mary, which is a sort
of a Nativity movie, and that one came out in
December and it was a big hit for like a
week or two, and then it sort of fell off
because that it's a very strange movie. It's there are
things that I find interesting about it, but it's.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
It's uh uh, it's like the Nativity as action movie,
where you know, Joseph is literally like taking up arms
against people who are trying to chase the Holy Family.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
And it's not not your standard sort of thing. But
you know, they start they struck a deal with Tyler Perry.
He's going to be making a movie called R and B,
which is a modernization of the Book of Ruth. And
about a year or two ago they hired a guy
named Dan Lin to oversee their film. And I'm curious
to see what effect this has on things, because Dan
(17:36):
Lynn I don't know about right now, Like I hate
to talk about people's private beliefs and so forth. But
Dan Lynn has given interviews, like in the New York
Times he described himself as religious, and he's spoken at
Viola and he's like he's he seems to be faith
affiliated in some way. And and after he arrived at Netflix,
(17:56):
he he restructured the the company and you know, gave
his vice president's various titles and one of them is
in charge of faith based So that's actually a genre
that Netflix under this new leadership is now recognizing. Yeah,
but we're still sort of waiting to see what comes
up out.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Well, I want to talk about The Chosen. You know,
from the jump, I saw the first couple of seasons.
I just had I've drifted away. I just kind of
I have a lot of content to watch for my job.
But I enjoyed that as it was well done. I
think the reviews were solid. I mean, I don't see
any sort of creative drop off. And you kind of
mentioned this a little bit where there was some friction,
you know, who's making this series, what is the point
(18:34):
of view? But I feel like in our age where
we're angry about everything, that really has not been the
dominating conversation. It's just like, we love The Chosen. It's
got a rabbit fan base that people will go out
and see it in theaters because they want to see
it before the you know, before debuts on their small
screen app talk about what's working there, because it really,
(18:55):
I mean, it seems like everything's working for lack of
a better phrase, but you.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Can be a work with me. When something gets that large,
there's more opportunities for friction, and various controversies have erupted,
and some of them I only hear about because Dallas
Jenkins puts out videos responding to the controversies, and I think, oh,
that was a controversy. I had no idea. Even the
fact that they're putting the show out in theaters has
been controversial because there are a number of fans who
(19:21):
either can't afford to see it in theaters or I
mean initially, I think even now the current season, only
part one is playing overseas in theaters because there just
wasn't a big enough audience. There's always a drop off,
like Part one has a certain level, then Part two
and three, and apparently Part one overseas only opens so
high compared to what it does in America. So overseas
(19:44):
they're just not even bothering with parts two and three.
So if you're a fan of The Chosen overseas, you
have to wait for streaming. Meanwhile, fans in North America
have seen it on the big screen, and all the
spoilers are out there and you have to hide you
have to hide it from the spoilers. And so there's
there's already some the fan base just around things like that,
because it used to be the first two or three seasons,
(20:04):
it used to be that Dallas would host live streams
on YouTube or Facebook and all the fans could gather
together and experience the episode for the first time together.
And so the fact that they're doing theatrical screenings for
some people has been a break from that communal tradition.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, you know, you mentioned somebody that I think is interesting.
The fact that Dallas Jenkins is so transparent, so eager
to talk to his fans directly. Maybe that's kind of
cut off some of the some of the controversy at
the Knees in a sense because you know, some listen,
we all fight if they make a silver surf for
a woman instead of a man, we all freak out
for a couple of months. And I don't discount that
(20:43):
there have been some arguments behind the scenes or with fans,
but it doesn't overwhelm the project.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I don't think, you know, I don't think so. I mean,
I do think. I mean, there are times I think
the makers of the show are a little too transparent.
There are times I'd be happy to just sort of
experience the story and sort of soak it in and
interpret it for myself. And sometimes I feel like, you know,
the chosen social media presence is always saying you will
feel this, you will you know. It's like, no, let
(21:10):
me let me feel it the way I want to
feel it. So yeah, but it's it's something we've never
really seen before, like a like an ongoing series, people
speculating what's going to happen in the next season. I mean,
we've just never seen that before, and it gets it
gets weird though, you know, as a lifelong Christian, I
(21:31):
feel a bit weird when I see people talking about
how they're shipping the Disciples, you know, ooh, is something
going to happen between Matthew and Mary Magdalene. And it's like,
I mean, these are actual historical figures and I've never
thought about them this way, but now we're treating them
the same way we treat like, you know, characters on
Star Trek or whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
You know. I think that when you think about pop culture,
I've been arguing for decades that it matters. And I
always mentioned the racial haircut from Friends. Everyone on the
racial haircut. And the reason why a lot of storytellers
put messages in their movies and TV shows is they
want to They want to shape public opinion, they want
to kind of alter it in any way. Is there
(22:11):
any way to quantify what a show like The Chosen
has meant the culture at large? It's a wildly unfair question,
but I just want to get any thoughts you have
on that. I mean, listen, if you're a Christian, you're
enjoying the show. It's quality entertainment, it speaks to your values.
I get that, But is it possible it's also roping
in other people who maybe their faith isn't that strong,
(22:33):
and all of a sudden, they're watching episode after episode
and they're reevaluating things.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
That's what I hear. I mean, they like, you know,
people who aren't Christian or haven't thought about it. Apparently
a lot of them do watch the show and like
the show. The show is trying to be. I mean,
the show has a very distinctive style, but it's also
trying to be sort of an all things to all
people like it just like it's it's it has carefully
avoided certain controversies, like certain topics that would divide different
(23:01):
groups of Christians, for example, and it's it's steered clear
as some of that. And and because the fan base
is so huge, I mean, people take away different things
from the show. You know, it's hard to say what
It's hard to say that there's any one effect that
the show is having aside from simply raising the profile
(23:21):
of this kind of material. I'm avoiding the word content.
I have to. I must, I religiously avoid the word content.
But I think I can say material, this kind of material,
that's fine. And and certainly you know the fact that
I mean, I think it's it's been interesting to see
how said David now come along? Because how said David
apparently is really big as well. How said David is
(23:42):
very different from the chosen It has some overlap stylistically.
I mean, I'm a nitpicker for grammar and idioms and things,
and so when I when I hear characters in Bible
movies say things like you keep telling yourself that okay,
which is what? Which is what somebody said? And house
said David, I think, oh, nobody said, okay back then, Yeah, yeah,
(24:04):
I know that nobody spoke English either, but you know,
you can bend and you can break, and there's.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
A there's a spell you cast and if you kind
of used it mop yeah, idiot, it does definitely.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah. Charlton Heston had a lot of praise for the
writer on the final A lot of script polisher on
Ben Hurd because he chose phrases that sounded a little
exotic but not too exotic. You can understand them, but
they anyway, whatever, that's a whole other subject.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah, I was interesting, But how said.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
David's very different though, in the fact that houseid David
really leans into being like a fantasy series, with Goliath
being super massive. I mean, I would argue much more
massive than he is in the Bible. But it also leaned,
but it leans into other things that are in the
Bible about angels coming down and mating with human women.
(24:52):
That's in Genesis six. And it also brings in Jewish
legends that I actually had never heard before until I
saw House of David, and I wondered, where did that
come from? So you know, apparently, you know, in the
Book of Ruth, Naomi has two daughters in law Ruth
and Orpah. And I don't know if you know this,
but Orpa is where Oprah gets her name from. Yeah, yeah,
(25:12):
And Ruth is the daughter in law who comes with
Naomi back to Bethlehem, back to Judea, and Orpah is
the daughter in law who stays in Moab. Well, apparently
in Jewish tradition, Orpa became the mother of Goliath's that's
in some of the traditions, and so in House of David,
Orpa is the mother of Goliath and his brothers. I
had never encountered this before, and even the way it
(25:35):
shows the angels and the humans mating when it has
a big flashback. In episode six, they introduced one or
two details that come from the Book of Enoch, which
is another nondiblicult text. And so House of David is
made by Christians. I believe it's accurate to call them
evangelical Christians. But it's bringing in a lot of Jewish
legends and mixing it in there, and which I think
(25:58):
is really interesting. And that's certainly probably what I would
have done if I were making the show, but not
too long ago that would have been very controversial. Yeah,
for a Christian fan base, you know, like like, what
is this non biblical stuff doing in there? And well, maybe.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Maybe the audience is maturing along with the storytellers as well,
where we're more fore giving, more accepting, where you know,
we're kind of embracing creative license.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So we're talking about lions Gate, We're talking about Netflix
Prime Video. These are all major players and they're getting
in the space. But I've been covering this for years
and you have as well, obviously, and there have been
roadblocks along the way. Uh, there have been actors who
are a little reticent to say the least of sharing
that they are people of faith. I could go on
and on. I mean, you know, Kevin Sorbo is a
classic example. It's a Christian conservative. Any he lost his
(26:43):
agent doesn't work in Hollywood anymore. So are there roadblocks
still remaining in this space? I mean, obviously there's a
lot of progress, But what are what's what's happening now?
And how would you kind of gauge it.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Roadblocks? I don't know. I mean, you know, people who
make movies want to make money, and the more money
they spend making things they want to, the more incentive
they have to make sure they get the money back.
So people will tend to avoid certain controversies. And I mean,
you can see this some of the biggest faith based
(27:16):
hits I've actually been a little critical of for avoiding
certain controversies. And you know, Jesus Revolution was one of
the biggest recent faith based hits. And one of the
main characters in that film is a guy who in
real life was sort of living a double life, and
(27:36):
as he was ministering, he also had this sort of
secret lifestyle. And around nineteen ninety he died of aides
And I knew all about this because there was a
documentary about him about twenty years ago. A friend of
mine made that documentary called Frisbee, The Life and Death
of a Hippie Preacher. So when Jesus Revolution came along,
it just it's treatment of that character felt very sanitized
(27:58):
to me, you know. The it didn't directly mention any
of that. And the closest that got was when the
character said, well, when I lived in San Francisco, we
did everything in everyone, which is a very which is
a very generalized comment, you know, And because I think
I think the filmmakers might have been reluctant to sort
(28:19):
of introduce how complicated that guy's story was to their audience.
But also I think so there's there's the Christian audience
to beware of, and I think they also maybe didn't
want to offend perhaps the non Christian audience, which which
might think that, well, if you're going to approach certain topics,
you have to do it a certain way. And so
I think I think there was a tendency to sort
(28:40):
of play it safer on certain issues.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
One last question?
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Is there anything kind of on the horizon that you're
looking forward to seeing in this in this sort of space, projects,
TV shows, movies, or anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Ah? Yeah, I uh, I'm going to mention two. I
think I can only think of two for sure right now.
But one of them is what's up? Two's good? Two
is good? Okay? Well, three is like the Holy number.
That's what you want, that's what you want to do.
But yeah, there's a show called The Promised Land. Have
(29:16):
you seen They released one episode, like a pilot episode
last summer. Okay. One of the assistant directors on The
Chosen has has started a series called The Promised Land.
He did a pilot episode on He put it out
on YouTube. You can watch it now on YouTube last
summer and he's now finished shooting the first season. He
got money for the first season. A few actors from
(29:38):
The Chosen are in it. And the concept behind it is,
what if you did Moses in the Exodus, like after
they crossed the Red Sea, once they're trudging across the desert.
What if you did Moses and the journey to the
Promised Land in the style of the Office. And so
it's it's sort of a mockumentary and it's very deadpan,
you know, it's the I interviewed the director of the
(30:02):
show and he said that basically the idea behind the
show was, you have a you have, like Moses, a
leader who doesn't want to lead, leading a people who
don't want to be led. And so it's I mean,
I'm very curious to see where future episodes go. The
first episode was brilliant because it got into Jethro's visit
(30:22):
to Moses, which is in the book Book of Exodus,
chapter something. It's between the Red Sea and Mount Sinai
some in there, and the fact that Moses was taking
leadership advice from his father in law. You know, it's
sort of it just lends itself to that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
The other thing that I'm very curious about is a
(30:43):
movie coming out around Christmas from the director of Sound
of Freedom. It's called Zero a D. And I don't
like that title because there is no year zero. I'm sorry,
I'm a history buff. In the calendar it goes from
one BC to a D one, there is no year
zero and that so it plugs me that the title.
The movie had a working title of Bethlehem, and they
(31:04):
announced the new title just a week ago, so this
is a week or two ago, so this is still
sort of a fresh wound for me. But but basically
it's from the director of Sound of Freedom and it's
it's another sort of action movie. Well not action movie,
but it thriller is the word they've used. It's a
thriller take on the Nativity. It looks like Jim Caviezel
(31:25):
is playing King Herod, but he's got like Colin Farrell
as the penguin makeup on if I if I'm if
I'm reading the trailer correctly, and Sam Worthington plays Herod's
son and and the imagery in the trailer is fantastic,
and I'm I'm very curious to see how that is.
(31:47):
I just wish they'd picked a you know, a title.
It's like years ago, there was a movie, I forget
the exact title that was called Krakatawa East of Java
or something, and in real life it's actually west of
or maybe I got it reverse, but it's it's one
of those things that like fans of bad movies like
to talk about the fact that the title got the
geography wrong.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
That's right, but that it reminds me when I was
a kid someone I don't know if this is a
true story. They were trying to sell a Chevrolet car
in uh maybe Mexico or Spanic country.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Again.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
They were selling the Nova, the Nova, and Nova means
don't go or don't don't you know, So you know, there.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Are a cultural bubble.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
But listen, we have a lot of times, you know,
right December.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
But they met but they met Nova in the Latin
sense meaning new right or I think it's not. I
think it's Latin. Anyway, it means new Nova Scotia and
New Scotland. That's sort of okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Anyway, Well, Peter, thank you, so much for joining the
show and sharing these perspectives. I really I have not
been dipping a toe in the faith based material area
for a while, and I knew you'd kind of bring it,
and I really do appreciate that. And you could check
out your substec page It's Thoughts and Spoilers. I love
that title to get your thoughts on pop culture, faith
(32:53):
based films, and much more. You're You're a very keen
and savvy person when it comes to the space, and
I appreciate your sort of dispassionate point of you.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
You're even when.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You're offended by certain grammatical errors, you you.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Stick to You stick to the.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Facts, and that's always important. But thanks again, And now
let's let's touch base. Touch base closer to the end
of the year, when that particular film.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Is about the hit theaters. Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Your character actor of the week is David Keith. Well
that's it for the show this week. Again, I am
recovering from a nasty bug boy. When you have a
one man operation like Hollywood in Toto, Inc. You just
can't afford that. I've been a bit of an iron
man in recent years. I never get sick. My whole
family gets sick around me. When COVID came, I never
(33:36):
got it, but boy, this particular bug really kicked my butt.
So apologize if I've been less than prolific in recent days.
But I am back to mostly full strength. And of
course if you can't do check out Hollywoodintoto dot com.
It is my website. It is now eleven years old.
It is like the show The Right Take in entertainment.
It's updated seven days a week. I think I I
(33:57):
might have missed a day or two. I kind of
use the Easter holiday is an excuse, but generally speaking
it is updated seven days a week. News and reviews, commentary,
all sorts of fun things, guest posts from artists who
are trying to get their message to the masses. You
name it, it's their Hollywoodintoto dot com. And of course
thank you to Radio America for having me as part
of their excellent podcast lineup. And I will see you
(34:19):
all next week. Be good, be kind, have a wonderful weekend.
That's doctors orders
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