October 17, 2025 • 45 mins
This week on The Hollywood in Toto Podcast, we bring you not one but two powerhouse interviews that explore original filmmaking from very different corners of the industry.
🎬 First up, conservative thought leader and bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza returns with his most ambitious project to date — The Dragon’s Prophecy. This gripping new documentary tackles the current Middle East crisis and unearths its shocking Biblical origins, offering a spiritual and geopolitical lens rarely seen in mainstream media. D’Souza pulls back the curtain on his creative process, how he consistently captures the cultural zeitgeist, and why The Dragon’s Prophecy is resonating with audiences across ideological lines.
🎃 Then, we switch gears with Scottish director John McPhail, the filmmaker behind the cult hit Anna and the Apocalypse. McPhail discusses his delightful new project, Grow, a family-friendly fantasy starring Nick Frost in a tale packed with heart, humor, greed, redemption, and plenty of pumpkins. McPhail shares behind-the-scenes moments from the set, what drew him to such a dramatically different genre, and why Grow could be the surprise hit of the season. Whether you're drawn to bold political documentaries or heartfelt indie storytelling, this episode offers a fascinating double feature that celebrates independent voices in cinema.
 👉 Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review The Hollywood in Toto Podcast — the show where pop culture meets principles.
--------------------------
The Dragon's Prophecy: https://thedragonsprophecyfilm.com
'Grow' trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LBdiENqC0
Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto
Read Hollywood in Toto - https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
🎬 First up, conservative thought leader and bestselling author Dinesh D’Souza returns with his most ambitious project to date — The Dragon’s Prophecy. This gripping new documentary tackles the current Middle East crisis and unearths its shocking Biblical origins, offering a spiritual and geopolitical lens rarely seen in mainstream media. D’Souza pulls back the curtain on his creative process, how he consistently captures the cultural zeitgeist, and why The Dragon’s Prophecy is resonating with audiences across ideological lines.
🎃 Then, we switch gears with Scottish director John McPhail, the filmmaker behind the cult hit Anna and the Apocalypse. McPhail discusses his delightful new project, Grow, a family-friendly fantasy starring Nick Frost in a tale packed with heart, humor, greed, redemption, and plenty of pumpkins. McPhail shares behind-the-scenes moments from the set, what drew him to such a dramatically different genre, and why Grow could be the surprise hit of the season. Whether you're drawn to bold political documentaries or heartfelt indie storytelling, this episode offers a fascinating double feature that celebrates independent voices in cinema.
 👉 Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review The Hollywood in Toto Podcast — the show where pop culture meets principles.
--------------------------
The Dragon's Prophecy: https://thedragonsprophecyfilm.com
'Grow' trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2LBdiENqC0
Subscribe to HiT's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@HollywoodinToto
Read Hollywood in Toto - https://www.hollywoodintoto.com
Lend a hand: Leave a tip! https://hollywood-in-toto.ck.page/products/hollywood-in-toto-tip-jar
Follow me on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/HollywoodInToto
Read: "Virtue Bombs: How Hollywood Got Woke and Lost Its Soul" https://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Bombs-Hollywood-Woke-Lost/dp/1637580991
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week in the Hollywood and Toto Podcast, not one,
but two separate interviews for your viewing and listening pleasure.
First up, the great Dennis Jasus is that with a
new film called The Dragon's Prophecy and it looks at
the Israeli Palestine divide in an amazing new way. And
then we talked to director John mcfail about his new
film Grow. It's a pumpkin growing competition with a twist
(00:22):
or two. It's charming, it's sweet, and I can't wait
for you to hear what he has to say about
the film.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to the Hollywood and Toto Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Entertainment news and reviews without doubt, woke.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hollywood, narrative, free speech, free expression. Now that's entertainment.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And here's your host, Oh Lord, winning film critic Christian Toto.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, first, an explanation. First of all, I've got two
interviews in the proverbial can. The films are out right now,
so I wanted to get this out as soon as
humanly possible, just to make sure that people know about
the films, and also to respect the filmmakers who share
their time with me.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
But also.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I dislocated my finger recently. My life is a mess.
When you type for a living and all of a
sudden you have a big splinter on your hand, Well,
things get a bit complicated. It's impacted my website, Hollywood
and Toto, it's impacting the show. But the show, of
course must go on. So doing a double episode here,
not the traditional monologue. I wanted to give you just
a little bit explanation why the formula here is a
(01:34):
little bit different this week. But let's get to the
main event or the main events. First up is Denish Jisusa.
You've seen his movies, of course for years and years.
You've read his columns, you've read his books. I'm sure,
just a prolific, profound thinker, a really interesting fellow in
the conservative space. And the fact that he transitioned to
filmmaking and has been so successful is a little kind
(01:56):
of a minor miracle onto itself. But also Denesh just
knows what he's doing. His latest project is called The
Dragon's Prophecy, and it looks at the Israeli Palestinian conflict
from a biblical perspective. And you know, the timing is
so curious and so wonderful, because obviously the big peace
deal has been signed. Hopefully that will stay in place.
But why do we need to have that piece deal,
(02:17):
what are the historical ramifications of it? Why are we
here in the first place, and how did the Bible
predict so much of what's going on right now? That's
what this movie shows. It is fascinating. And of course
Denis Juzus is always doing something a little bit different
with each of his films. We get into that in
the conversation as well. So if you want to find
out more about The Dragon's Prophecy, you can check out
(02:38):
The dragonsprophecyfilm dot com. You could buy the film on
DVD right now, or just stream it from your favorite
home viewing device. So hope you enjoy a conversation with
Denish Jesuza. So glad to have him on the show.
And he's always got something unique to say. That's what
makes him so special. Denis Welcome to the show. You know,
sometimes filmmakers can fall into a rut to keep producing
(03:00):
movies that their fans expect or what they maybe it's
their comfort place. But your films don't really fall into
that pattern at all. I mean, Police State is so
different than two Thousand Mules and of course, the Dragon's
prophecy is wildly different as well. Talk just as a filmmaker,
I feel like you're really exploring what you can share
(03:21):
on screen, bouncing from topic topic. What's been your creative approach,
then we'll get more specific about the movie.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, my creative approach is very I would say supply
side driven, and by that I mean I actually, although
people credit me with making very timely films, I don't
set out that way. My first film on Obama, I
was intrigued by the idea that he was not the
civil rights guy that people were portraying him to be,
that he seemed to get his ideas from the anti
(03:51):
colonial ideologies of the Third World via of course, his father,
the so called dreams from my father. And I'm like,
this is fascinating. No one else is saying this, and
I think I can not only argue it, but show
it by going into Obama's world. And similarly, in two
Thousand Mules, I'm like, people are talking about everyone stopping
(04:11):
the count and boarded up windows and affid Davids, and
we've heard all that, but if I can show you
just a different way of looking at it, in terms
of cell phone geo tracking and surveillance video. And remember,
as a filmmaker, you know, if you make a film
about people breaking into Fort Knox, you want to see
the guys coming.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
In through the window, and you want to see them.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Taking off, loading the bars of gold into a bag.
You want to see them, you know, filling up the truck.
So I'm always looking for the visual elements that make
the film. But in some ways I think you're right.
This film is a departure for me in this sense
that all my other films are in one way or
another about the meaning of America. The films, in a
(04:53):
way stay home home here in the United States. This
film takes you abrad Israel hamas of unseen footage of
October seventh, the war now the peace Plan. But in
the end the film brings you back home in a
different way, because this is a film ultimately about the Bible.
(05:15):
It's about good and evil. It's about the moral choices
that each of us have to make. And so the
film in the end concludes it's not just about Israel,
It's not just about a war over there. It is
ultimately about a war that has been raging in the
human soul from the beginning of time that forces upon
(05:35):
us a choice of which side we're going to stand on.
So in this sense, my film, more than any of
my previous works, integrates the political with the spiritual and
even the biblical.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know, obviously, as someone concerned about what's going on
in the world, you see October seventies, see the aftermath,
which was in odd ways even more shocking, just the
reaction to what had happened. But what point do you
think this is? My next project was discovering Jonathan Cohn's book.
Was that sort of the key that unlocked things? What
was your creative process to get to where we are
(06:10):
right now?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
In my case, it worked in three steps.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
My wife and I went to Israel for the first
time at the end of twenty twenty two, and I
discovered this biblical archaeology, which I didn't know enough about.
I mean, I've been debating leading apeists around the world,
people like Christopher Hitchins, so I'm familiar with the domain
of Christian apologetics. But what I didn't realize is that
in the last couple of decades, coming out of the
(06:33):
ground in Israel, but not only in Israel, are these coins,
these clay seals, these stone inscriptions, these artifacts, and what
they're doing is they are historically authenticating figures in the Bible.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So you have all these figures in the.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Bible, some in the New Testament, many in the Old
people like Poncious Pilot, the High priest Caiaphas, the prophets Jeremiah, Isaiah,
King David, going back a thousand year before Christ. So
these figures were in the Bible, but only in the Bible.
But now via archaeology, they are jumping into the pages
(07:09):
of history. And I thought, this is fascinating, and I'm like,
why why aren't we hearing this from like the synagogues
and the churches. Why aren't pastors talking about this? So
I thought to myself, I wonder if there's an interesting
film that would cover this territory, because after all, it
is also very visual. You're looking at things and you
can make sense of them. Then fast forward a year
(07:31):
and we have October seventh, and then my wife is
in a telegram channel where she's collecting all this footage
and showing it to me. Look at this some of it,
of course it's hard to watch, but I'm like, I
don't understand why this footage is not being released, like
the world hasn't seen it. Then two years later that's
still the case. So that's how I opened this film,
by the way, the Dragon's prophecy. Then along comes Jonathan Kahn,
(07:54):
and he introduces a new element, which is the element
of biblical prophecy. So I say to myself, all right,
I have the archaeology that's the ancient past, then I
have the war and now of course the peace plan
that's the present. And then we have Khan who is
giving us a tantalizing look at biblical.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Forecasting, you could call it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And so if I can weave these together into a tapestry,
it's going to make a really interesting film.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and obviously it did you want to touch brillify
on the footage that you include in the movie. It's
in the beginning. It's hard to watch. I think it's
as tastefully presented as possible, but you also can't escape
what's happening on the screen.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Do you get the sense?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And you kind of hinted it this that not everyone
has not that they've seen this particular footage, but there's
other clips out there that were shot by Hamastra in
this atrocity. Do you get a sense of people just
aren't even aware they haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Well, I think the problem and this is I think
a blunder on the part of the government of Israel
in my opinion, they.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Decided not to show the footage.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Their reason was, I think good, which is for the
families of the hostages.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Let's respect them.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But see to me as a filmmaker and Krishanra have
to tell you this. You know this as well as anybody.
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
If I were to say to you, I grew up.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
In India and I tell you about my life, it
is a whole different thing to know about me than
if I were to show you a video and say
that's me at the age of seven, that's my house,
that's my family, that's the stuff we ate for breakfast.
That's a whole different experiential idea of what it's like
to grow up in India. So I thought it would
(09:32):
be very important to put people right on the scene.
And I think what makes it particularly fascinating and even
eerie is you're not seeing it from the attacker's point
of view, and a typical film, you know you have
a family there in blissful solitude, and then somebody breaks
a window and the bad guys come in. You see
it from the family's point of view in this case.
The opposite you are like on a motorcycle with a
(09:55):
go pro and you're riding into the kibbutzs across the fence.
You're coming from Gaza. You're with the attackers in this case.
So I thought that was a particularly remarkable and of
course the footage serves the deeper point of also bringing
you kind of face to face with with evil, right
because evil in the world never says it never wears
(10:16):
a name tag I'm evil. You know, it wears the
name tag I'm good. I'm doing something that is very
necessary and important and even virtuous. And of course, after
October seven, Allahu akbar, so God is great. We are
doing God's will. So this is these are the questions
that we wrestle with in the film. And so it
(10:37):
begins in a very gritty way on the ground, but
then pretty soon you're in a very wide angle lens
and you're talking about things like how does the war
between Israel and Hamas resemble the ancient battles in the
Bible between the Israelites, and say, the Philistines.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So you have to watch a film to get all
the different connections and all the just astounding ways that
the past in the present or colliding or connecting. Can
you give us just one example of something in the
film you can share where it really kind of hammers
home the point that the overall film is making.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
So let's tick the example of the Philistines, by the way,
where the ancient enemies of Israel perhaps the most persistent.
The Israelites had other enemies, the Amalekites and the Hittites
and the Moabites, but the Philistines were, like they were
the most long lasting. Now, the name Philistine, the name Palestine,
it's the same name.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
In fact, it's the same word transported through history.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But here's the point. This is a point, by the way,
I credit to Jonathan Cohn. It's not just the same name,
it's the same tactics. So when there's a biblical hero
named Samson who represents the strength of Israel, Samson is
captured by of all people, the Philistines. The Bible says
that they blinded him, so kind of in the same
(11:56):
way that Israel was blinded on October seventh. The Bible
says they dragged him to Gaza. So Gaza's in the Bible.
It was one of the main cities of the place
called Philistia, which pretty much covered what we now call
the Gaza strip. And the Bible says that the people
of Gaza came out and they wanted Samson to be
stripped of his clothes and brought out so that quote
(12:19):
he may entertain us. Sure enough, right after October seventh,
captives were stripped to the waist, brought out, paraded for
the entertainment of the people of Gaza who were screaming
and shouting in joy, celebrating. And so Khan makes this
arresting statement in the film he goes Samson three thousand
years ago was kind of the first hostage of Gaza.
(12:42):
This is the kind of you know, intriguing and kind
of mind bending type of comparison that you get a
lot of in this film. In the end, it's not
forcing a point of view on you. It's getting you
to really think through some big issues and take your
own stand.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, you know, and I think the usually represent all
these different connections so well in the film. That's a
credit to you as a filmmaker. Yeah, obviously the piece
deal just happened. It's remarkable. You know, whether it can
last is the big question. Obviously it changes the way
you interact and engage with your film. Obviously it's still important.
(13:21):
Obviously it matters. It's almost even more important now just
because history suggests this. You know, the ebb and flow
will continue. But how does making this film and it's
such a deeply personal process for you as a storyteller,
how did that influence the way you've seen the last
few days?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Well, the remarkable thing is the film sort of has
darkness and light built into it, and it's almost like
the events as they unfold are highlighting the one side
or the other. So the darkness is not only October seventh,
but it's really what the film tries to unfurl is
the Devil's handbook. And you realize, you know, people often
(14:02):
say like.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
What would Jesus do? Or what would I want to
be on? What would God think about this? But we
don't often ask, well, how does the devil see it?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
The film goes there, you know, but it doesn't leave
you there, and so there is a note of exhilaration
of spiritual restoration So some of the mood that people
talked about after Charlie Kirk's assassination, for example, the darkness
and then also the call to light, they're both in
the film. So when Trump gets up there and says
thing like it's a new dawn, you know that's in
(14:34):
the film too. But the you know, I would say
that if you believe the Bible, the Bible seems to say, look,
these things, in the final sense are not going to
be settled until the end of time. This is not
to say that you can't make measurable progress, it's not
to say that you can't have good days. But the
idea that this will somehow be let's just say, an
(14:55):
unending era of peace and prosperity. Again, you don't have
to be theological. Just have to look at who you're
dealing with. You know, you're dealing with a group whose
name Hamas and Hebrew basically means destruction or violence. You're
dealing with a group that's dedicated to that. You're dealing
with a group that says things like we love death.
You're dealing with moms who say I've given two sons
(15:17):
to the war, and you might expect her to say
I don't want this war to go on because I
got two more sons. But no, she's like, I can't
wait for the next two to be killed. Also, they
can be martyrs. So we're dealing here with some intractable problems.
Trump has done better than any president I know in
making a headway here, and I want to give him
the full credit for that. I also like the fact
(15:37):
that he's outlining this almost messianic vision for the future,
which I think is something that we need to hear.
But another side of us, and again these sides are
both in the film. Another side of us says, well,
we also have to remember that the bad guys aren't
going away. They haven't actually had a true change of heart.
(15:58):
They might have been bludgeoned into a temporary truth, but
their motives are going to remain the same, and so
there's going to be a lot for us to deal with.
The film is not at any risk of becoming obsolete.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Oh gosh, No, it's actually more important now than it
was a week ago.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Honestly.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
You know, one thing I want to mention is the
this is just my interpretation, I think you can confirm it.
There are sequences in the film that felt like there
were maybe AI generated and I know that in Hollywood
that's the third rail. You can go there and understand
that from many perspectives. But you're a filmmaker who doesn't
have a sony or a paramount or a what are
brothers behind you? So I imagine it's sort of a
(16:34):
necessary way to get this story across. I just want
to get your thoughts as an artist about that process,
the good and the bad, and can you understand some
of the fears behind it too?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I mean what we do with the AI is very
kind of defined and concrete, and that is we use
it to recreate Biblical times. Now, you know as well
as I do that it would take hundreds of thousands
of all is to shoot a single scene. Normally for
a documentary, what you do is you buy and large
(17:05):
use clips from other movies. But if we were to
take clips from you know, co of Artists over here,
and the Ten Commandments over there, and the Passion of
the Christ over here, what would happen is there'd be
a jumpiness. You'd basically be seeing that these are flashes
from other movies that you may or may not have seen.
What the AI does is it gives you a certain
type of visual consistency. You also recognize it to be AI.
(17:29):
So the film is ninety percent our own footage. But
at times, you know, I'm standing on the Pilgrimage Road,
which is the ruins of an old biblical highway, and
I thought, how cool it is to go from me
standing on this on these ruins, to then seeing what
that road might have actually looked like. When Mary and
Joseph are walking a twelve year old Jesus to the temple,
(17:52):
you can totally see how they might lose their kid.
And so the AI really helps to show, you know,
the ancient pilgrims and their selling loaves and there are
birds flying around and they're exchanging coins. That's how it
must have felt like. And so we use the AI sparingly,
but I think in a pretty effective way.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, you know one thing I want to ask you about,
just in kind of taking a broader look at the culture.
I mean, you've been at the forefront of this. You're
a pioneer in the space. People who are on the
right or even just unorthodox storytellers are now getting their
chance to tell their movies. I mean, like you mentioned,
like the AI access wasn't available to you ten years ago.
There are filmmakers who's pooped up a website, They get
(18:33):
a documentary, they might put things on X and all
of a sudden, millions of people are seeing it. It's
a whole new world. It sounds grandiose, but it's true.
How would you judge what's happening as a right of
center person looking at the arts, looking at pop culture,
what's working, what needs to get to be improved.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Well, the hard thing for someone like me is simply
the fact that because there is so much content, and
there's so much free content, it's very difficult to have
these films be economically viable because they to do them well.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, you know as I do.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That you can spend fifty thousand dollars and make a documentary.
You interview seven guys in the same room, and then
you just throw some backgrounds and you take some stock
footage and you just slap it together. But it costs
a few million bucks to make a really good film,
and it costs more money to then market it, so
you have to get it back, and that means people
(19:30):
need to be willing to pay for this kind of content.
I think what happens is in today's world, particularly because
people are jumping around from one place to another. They'll
watch a few clips and then they go, well, I
kind of have the gist of what this guy is
trying to say. And so there is for me the
challenge of making really good films where people feel like,
(19:51):
you know what, I need to have the actual experience
of watching this film, and that is hard to do.
And as you know, there's virtually no one in this
space who by and large can make this stuff work economically.
Michael Moore is pretty much out of the documentary film business.
Last I heard he was like giving away tickets to
his films, like on the Streets of New York. I'm
(20:14):
not quite reduced to that stage yet, but I do
think that this is in many ways my most cinematic
and some other people have said the most sort of
profound themes that I've covered in any of my in
any of my films.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean I've watched almost all of them, if
not all of them, and I do see the evolution.
I mean, not that you were a bad storyteller from
the jump, but I can see the richness of the
presentation is grown and grown over each particular film. Do
you have a project that's lined up next? I don't
want to kind of go too far ahead, but I'm
always curious about what you have to say. And like
(20:47):
you said, you seem to have a finger on the
zeitgeist more than most people. What's on your agenda at
this point?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
So you know, I'll focus this fall on this project
and on trying to get it as widely circulated as possible.
It also has international possibilities that some of my other
films don't have, And like you say, it's more timely
now than when I made it, So it's you know,
it's always nice to surf on the wave. Very difficult
(21:15):
when you make a film on a topic that no
one's like talking about right now. Yeah, And so what
I'm doing is I'm hatching a couple of new projects
for next year. Again, you know, I do it not
by kind of trying to take the temperature of the culture.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I kind of assume I already have that.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And so I think to myself, like, what's really intriguing
to me? Now? What do I think I can I
can deal with in a fresh and original way. I
never start out by wanting to do a film that
is a regurgitation of the debate as it currently exists.
I want to move it forward, and so I have
to ask myself, what do I have to say in
this next project that is genuinely original, genuinely important and
(21:56):
it's going to make a difference. Comes back to that
sort of good old Linden Johnson question that he would
ask after every meeting.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's like, and therefore, what you know?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I mean, what follows from all this intriguing though it
might be, what is the practical takeaway or the consequence
of it all? And so those are the questions I
try to answer in my own mind before embarking on
a project.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
One last question, Maybe the budget maybe gives me the
answer because it could be much more expensive. But would
you ever want to make a narrative film to kind
of move away from the documentary style format? I know
your films aren't specifically documentary, they're their own beast in away,
But has that it you ever presents itself with that
something you'd like to scratch?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
For sure?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think it was going back now to my one
of my earliest films, America.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I think it was America.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I had all the top people at Lionsgate at up
premiere in LA and they looked at the film and
then they pulled me aside and they go, this is
a really good movie. And they go, Deness, you really
should consider doing feature films because you have the knack,
you have the eye for it, and so I am
intrigued by that idea. I think these days we have
(23:05):
to always look to see what are the right sort
of platforms that one could make that kind of film.
The conservative right of center market is not accustomed with
some exceptions. I mean, Angel Studios does its own thing.
Daily Wire has done some stuff in it in its space.
But I think in terms of really breaking ground and
feature films that have mainstream markets and a widely watched
(23:29):
you know, I would like to pioneer that space, but
I feel like it has to be the right project
and the right type of distribution. Christian, if I can
say about this film, the website is The Dragons prophecyfilm
dot com. It's the Dragons plural prophecy, and don't forget
the film The Dragons prophecyfilm dot Com. The film isn't streaming,
(23:50):
it's in DBD. I think people will find it well.
As you said, it's it's timely and yet it's also
very timeless.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, and it's also provocative too. Listen if you only
saw the movie to see some of that footage that
with that Hamas captured, it's important. Like you said, I
think that. I think the Israeli government created a maybe
a forty five minute film sort of a it's Google
should say, like a best of what was going on,
and they showed it to certain journalists and they certain
they showed it to certain people in Hollywood. But maybe
they should have just let it out. And I understand
(24:18):
these sensitivity. Maybe they could have blurred out faces and things.
But as much it's why you do what you do
when you're you understand what's going on. To see it
is so different, and I think it lands differently and
you just can't get those images at your head. That
of course, that's just part of the Dragon's prophecy. Do
check it out and I get you know, it's funny
you mentioned the snippet. You get it just the movie.
(24:39):
I want to give people it gist of the movie,
but you really have to see it from start to
finish to get what's going on to get the breadth
of the argument. The conversation here.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So you know what, talking to people about the film,
they're like, well, Danesha, you know, are you giving away
the film? I'm like, no, I can't give away the film,
even if I want to write it's like you take
any good film.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I can pick the shawsh Ankle, Damnation.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
If you ask people like what's it about, They're gonna
be like, well, it's about friendship. Well it's about prisons.
It doesn't even begin to do justice to the appearance
of watching the film. The same is true here. I
can talk about it. I give you little provocative hints
about what's in the film. Yeah, but you got to
check the film for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So you get earn filmmaker. Now you know the deal
and you know how to produce films that matter, that
speak to what we're talking about right now, and that
grab you by the collar and don't let go. And
that's of course The Dragon's Prophecy, The Dragons prophecyfilm dot com.
Check it out, streaming, DVD, whatever your preferred method of
watching it, but just do watch it. Thanks so much,
A treat to talk to you as always, and I
(25:39):
look for your next project.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
They're always good Christian it's it's always a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Our second interview this week is with director John McPhail.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Now he's not a.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Household name, he's not a Steven Spielberg, but he's a young,
talented filmmaker and he caught my attention a couple of
years ago with a movie called Anna and the Apocalypse.
It was a zombie movie with music and humor and
a lot of heart and of course some brains. It's
a zombie movie, and I thought, oh my gosh, what
an interesting storyteller. I'm kind of curious to see what
he has up his sleeve next. Well, turns out it's
(26:10):
a movie called Grow. It's a story about a young girl.
She's been kind of passed around the foster care system,
finds a new place to call home, and now she
wants to make her mark by entering a pumpkin growing competition.
But it's not so easy. This is a small town
that takes its pumpkins very seriously. There are sort of
evil players afoot here. Every time I touch a plan,
(26:31):
it's like I can feel what they're feeling. She's entering
the pumpkin contest.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
This is all out vegetable warfare.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You want to steal our secrets. And even better, there's
a significant role played by the great Nick Frost. He
is part of this ensemble cast. He is wonderful as always,
as is the film. This is an absolute charmer, one
of those It's good for the whole family, and the
whole family will enjoy it. Won't be sitting there cringing
(27:01):
while their kids have a gay old time. It's just
a really sweet, charming, family friendly movie with a bite,
with some things to say, with some stories to share
about families and connection and even the environment to doo
and no worry, it's not preachy.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
But that's part of it as well.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
So I hope you enjoyed my conversation with John mcfail.
I'm so curious to see what he does next. He's
one of those filmmakers you could think, oh gosh, this
guy's got talent. He's got an interesting eye for stories,
and I just I'm always curious to see how those
careers evolve, and I think his is well in its way.
The new movie Again is Grow. It is in theaters
right now, So please enjoy my conversation with gross director
(27:37):
John mcfail. We're all set well, John, Thank you so
much for joining the show and sharing a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I do appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
No, no, thank you, Amy, thank you very much for
taking to take me to talk of the film.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Well, obviously you've done horror before. You've woven in some
humorous elements. You got that under your belt. This one
is a much more gentle story. The humor is still there.
It's a little bit of a fantasy as a film maker,
as a young filmmaker, what's it like to kind of
expand your canvas and kind of go in this a
little bit of a different direction for what you've done
in the past.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
I mean, like what always draws me the scripts, you know,
it doesn't really matter what genres his character like, and
like I just loved the sort of the Charlie Dinad
than that dynamic, that sort of unconventional mother daughter story
and like sort of like characters that are like just
fireworks popping off all around it, you know, Like I
love that, like and like I love an audience. Like
(28:32):
That's what I'm here for, is to tell stories to
audiences and like sort of like you know, explode that.
Like for this, it was like what I really wanted
to do was create that like shared experience. Like I
grew up watching like you know, the Goonies and Short
Circuit and like, you know, like all these sort of
like family films where like my parents like it was
(28:55):
like a Friday Saturday night we would all be like
huddled around the TV watching like a VHS my mum's
taped off the TV or rented from Buster or something,
and like that was everything to me. That like weekends,
like you know, and I just I just had this
sort of like this, as I say, that's real, you know,
curiosity to try and so see if I could emulate
(29:17):
that that As I say, I wanted the kids laugh
and you know, the parents laugh and even like you know,
the little horror elements that you put up put in
which is like to sort of scale them, but also
like the parents are laughing and the kids then it's it's,
as I say, it's just this this sort of real
fun dynamic.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, you know, I won't spoil. There's an homage to
Psycho which is just wonderful, completely g rated, but it
is I think parents and the audience will enjoy that.
You know. Some films for the whole family have some
darker themes to them heavier themes. This one, for sure.
You've got a young girl who misses her mom, that
there's a you know, looking for new connections. Talk about
(29:55):
you know, weaving that into a story without scaring the kids,
without making it too heavy. I think you've got the
balance just right. But as a storyteller, how do you
work on that, on that kind of that maneuver that
you know, because it's not easy, I'd imagine, Well.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
It's it's just trying to connect the you know, like
the audience. I think that we can all sort of like,
you know, understand that relationship between the two of them,
that reluctance and then that sort of like coming together. Yeah,
you know, Charlie's desperate to belong and they'd desperate to
be a family, and Diana's lost the urge to sort
of to nut sure and need to grow and to
sort of watch that kind of come together, I felt like,
(30:31):
you know what, I love color and film like I
love it, and like like trying to sort of make
the farm and everything feel really colorful when you through
like even their costume and things like that, where we
start to really bring color into their lives again as
they sort of grow, and I feel like that that
will keep that sort of dynamic dynamic there, like even
(30:52):
sort of the mum side of it, you know. Again,
not to get any spoilers or anything like that, I
think it's dead easy for like the audience to hate up.
And I always like the challenge would be on the stander,
you know, and going through that, like I thought would
be a better approach rather than sort of eyes and
her and sort of do you know what I mean?
And like I felt, you know, Catherine Drysday had done
(31:13):
a great, a really really great job with that. But
again going back to sort of like the Charlie and
Dyna dynamic, I feel like it's it's it's such it's crucial.
And when I've got two like like really really good
actor was just bouncing off each other and then neck
Frost as well, and it's just just magic, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah. The young star I don't know her before prey
of Rose Brockwell, Hope Brokewell and pronouncing her name correctly,
she's terrific, you know. I mean, she really carries the
movie and it's incumbent on her to kind of hold
things together. Talk about working with her and working with
the young actors, I mean just I imagine as a director,
you know, working with adults, you can steer them a
(31:57):
certain way. They accept, you know, direction younger Store just
doesn't have the years of experience, but she handles it
so well. What was the then every between the two
of you.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Pray is incredible, Like like I like that, Like she
is like, hands down one of the best actresses I've
ever worked with. Like she's she takes I would speak
to the same we would speak to Nick and golder
like and I would walk away, Oh no, I've just
you know, spoken to her child like she's in her forties,
like you know, it's it's but she she's she's so clever,
(32:29):
she's so intuitive. Always said to her as well, like
when when we were shooting, which is and in the moment,
if it feels right, go your gut, just go with it.
And like, you know, I trusted her a lot because
she's you know, she she could handle it all and
as well as actually grew in confidence with that as well.
She had so much coming in. But like you know,
(32:50):
like things like that, just just going with things in
the moment and trying things, particularly when you've got when
you've got Nick, you know, there and she was just
so of us. I said, she she loved Golda. She's
just adult Golda, and she's a like a false of
nature herself. She's an increasible, atous, incredible woman as well.
So like you surrounded by the two of them all day,
(33:12):
you know, she just sort of, as I said, I
just took everything on and you with pre like you
just had to reminder, like you know, like if you
had a long break of going between things, she's to
be like, we're here, here, here, here, and she had it,
you know, she was just.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
When you work.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I mean, this is mostly an adult cast, but doors
like her and other younger performers here. Does that help
you make a family friendly movie? I mean, you know
we're both adults. Our childhoods are behind us. But you know,
you summon your inner child as best you can. But
having the real thing in front of you, do you
kind of look at their feedback, gauge their reactions. Does
(33:50):
their presence maybe help really focus what you're trying to achieve? Her?
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I don't know. I think you know, we we kind
of like I know what I want before I come in.
I'm very I'm very collaborative director, Like I love working
with actors. I love working with my crew as well,
you know, working with like such talent all around me.
So but I know what I want from it, and
then from that, everybody's just building on it, you know.
(34:17):
So going in, Like as I said, I knew what
I wanted. I'm a big kid, Like doesn't matter how
old I get, I'm a big, big kid. So like
there's lots of things in that that's just bringing out
that in their child, really because you're getting to play
in that space. And like I don't know how many
times I say this, this was one of the best
(34:40):
sets I've ever had, Like it was so much fun.
Like Golda and Nick didn't want to go to the trailers.
They just wanted to be on set all the time.
They just wanted to be around the crew, like and
that fed into the rest of the cast, like nobody
wanted to go to their trailers. The kids we were
having to like take them off set to go to
like to do their education and stuff because this of
study and then they have to have downtime as well
(35:01):
as they educating time. But their standings, like the kids
who played their standings were so funny, Like it so
funny and like so we're always laughing. So like I
feel like, you know, when you create an environment like
that and like everybody's having like a really really nice time,
everybody's enjoying company work and having so much fun, it
(35:22):
kind of you know, bleeds into the film.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, how do you create I mean, obviously the actors
play their part, they've got the personalities to match the set.
You're trying to create the atmosphere. But what can you
do maybe even early on in the shoot where you
kind of let people know this is not going to
be a traditional set. This is going to be more open,
more funded. Are there things as the director, now that
you've got a few films under your belt that you
(35:46):
can kind of gently set in motion to kind of
make that happen and make it permissible.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I always do it in prep, like like as soon
as I sit down in my head's at departments, I
tell them what I'm looking for. But like as I
always tell them before they go, it's like I want
your stamp all over this, Like I want I want
you involved in this, like bringing everybody in and with
the cast. It was like on the very like I
I tried to do this on every first day rehearsal,
which is I do a day of clown and then
(36:11):
it's not clown like happy happy, like you know, it's
more mime. It's more about your physicality and understanding your body.
But there's a lot of fun games in there, and
there's a lot of like sittiness that's involved in that.
So when me and there's the director that's stepping in
with my cast and it's like silly games, it's like
you have a moo off where it's two people sort
(36:33):
of down on all floors and then look at each
other and then moo first want to laugh is out
And when you've got the detector on the floor mooing
at the number one on the call sheet like like
you know, you know, it just melts away all that
kind of like fear or ego or like and this
is this is to be fun and we've to explode
(36:54):
this and try this and like as I said, it's
just it's just about as I said, trying to be
as open as possible with people from the get go
and then carrying that through.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Gotcha, you set the things, they just take it from there.
I let's talk Nick Frost. You know, he's so great
on screen He's perfect with this kind of movie because
he's so charming and lovable but a little eccentric at
the same time. Where is he what's he like on
like you know, behind the scenes working on different setups.
I mean, what do you see that we don't get
a chance to see we see the finished product. He's
always charming off the charts. But working with him, what
(37:28):
did you find?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Honestly, there was a dream like and I know people
will be like, honestly is exactly what you would imagine,
like like genuinely what you would imagine is such a
fun guy, such a given guy. He is always trying things,
like you know, and and like you know, offering things
and going with things in the moment. And again at
(37:52):
the same time, if it's not something I'm digging, I'll
just you know, it takes it and he's like pro
and and you know he doesn't have like a as
I say, like an ego, like and that's what we
really really surprised me. Like right across the Bold none
of them did, Like again Jane Horwicks and Tim mckinnellly,
I grew up watching like like like I love Black
(38:12):
at that was like like the huge in my household
and I'm getting to work with Tim, and it just
it just wants to play. It just wants to have fun.
And like and as I say, the same with Neck,
it was just it was just always the you know
Neck Frost, I said.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know, one of the things they inter thinking about
the film, and it has sort of a gentle environmental
message here, certainly not hitting you over the head. It's
certainly woven into the story from what Charlie can do
to other elements there. Sure, you know, I think kids
will get an interesting perception of kind of taking care
of the world around us. But talk a little bit
(38:49):
of that element to the film.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I mean, and like, like you said, I never wanted
to be MD over the head with like I feel like,
you know, the core message was there and that the
film is about not stringing and grow both and with
those themes in there, and there's certain certain little things
that we're doing, you know, trying to move away from
the chemicals and become more more organic and and I
think kids can understand that. Again, it's never browbeating them.
(39:13):
We did originally and we shot a couple of like
set like scenes where I think it was nick but
spoke up a little bit more about the turmoil that's
going on in the world, and when we watched it,
it was actually my head that was like, I don't
think we need this, Like I really don't like It's
just like as a father, like he was coming into
(39:33):
this going, you know, like, do I want my kids
listening to this? And do I want to be thinking
about it while I'm there? And as I said, audience
is so important to me. So anything that was ever
going to wake people out or make them feel uncomfortable
in a place where it's there, they'll enjoy themselves. They
have to forget about the world's problems for a little bit,
you know. But I feel like the eco messages there
(39:54):
and that's sort of like you know, you know, obviously
trying to get kids to sort of your big site
about plants and growth like that is all there without
you know, like forcing it down MD's throat.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Gotcha, I want to backp it a little bit. I
just was so charmed by And then the apocalypse. It
was such a it was such a project that could
have went up the rails had just been a disaster,
but of course it wasn't clear cult hit and just
so charming and so well assembled. What did you take
away from that project? Because you know, as a younger filmmaker,
it just seemed like to balance those elements, to bring humor,
(40:29):
to bring music, to bring a dash of horror, it
seemed like a very daunting task. Obviously you succeeded, But
what did you did it build your confidence? Did it
kind of let you tackle different types of stories? What
did you take away from experience?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Like, like a lot of it. As I said, it has
been about growth and that sort of My first film
was like a fifty grand like romantic comedy that met
all my mates made we'd be making sure spelled into that.
So this was that like next step for me. I
feel like like after it that I could take it.
And I was so precise with like how I wanted
(41:05):
to use the three arts structure as ways of building genre,
even like my love for color, Like you know, like
we all those sort of reds and greens and yellows
and blues, and by the end of it, you know,
because it's the film sort of souls those colors twist
and become the sort of peaches and pinks and turquoises.
It's still keeping it nice and color, colorful and vibrant,
(41:26):
but there is that shift and change and obviously I
love taking that through and that's something like, you know
that I want to keep trying, like as I go
and we grow. That was kind of the same thing,
you know, to orange and then pulled it out of
everything as much as possible and sort of built all
the color around it, you know, the little hints of
orange here, but once the pumpkin arrives, it feels like
(41:48):
it just finishes the palor which is which is because
now as they've came together, you know, and the farm
starts to get more colorful, and.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, it's fascinating. It's kind of thing you probably on
some level get, but maybe not even kind of can
name it there, but there it is. One quick last question,
just because you've worked with the horror before, Horror seems
like it's having a moment right now. We've had some
really great films obviously working well at the box office.
I feel like there's a generation of young storytellers like
yourself who really kind of get the genre. Do you
think it's just sort of a cyclical thing or what
(42:23):
any sort of thoughts on why horror is just having
sort of a close up at this point, I.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Don't think it's ever left. Though I love horror. I'm like,
how horror, you know, Like I love horror, like it's
but it's something I grew up with, and I think
that horror can always kind of challenges. It can take
us into the sort of this some of the darkest
places of even from humanity. It's just psychology, you know.
And then as well as it can it can be
(42:49):
really funny, like and you know, really close to the
bone and you know, and again sort of taking it
like as I say, like a proper close look at
humanity and I demons, you know, like the films I
grew up watching, you know, like you know, like ringing
things as well, and even something really close like the Bapat,
which is all about trauma and exploding that kind of
(43:11):
trauma and we as like an audience, we all we've
all experienced trauma on our lives and sort of you know,
facing that, and a film I think is always as
satisfying or like, you know, facing those fields. I'll like that.
I love about it.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Well, I hope that you'll go back to heart at
some point, but for now we're talking grow It is
in theaters starting October third, so do check it out.
Fun for the whole family. I smiled a lot through
this movie. I think people will like it and it's
the kind of movie where, yes, the kids will love it,
but I think your parents and the crowd will will
be equally charmed and amused by it, which is like
the perfect the sweet spot as you were, as it were.
But John, thanks for checking taking the time to speak
(43:50):
to me, and we show all the best with the film.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Well, thanks very much, question like, I really appreciate this.
Thank here.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Well that's it for this week's unique special episode, a
very special episode of the Grand Blossom tradition. Hopefully this
will be healing in no time and I'll be back
to my regular workload again. Thanks for your patience, Thanks
for listening to the show and also telling a friend
if you're enjoying the conversations we're having here and do
check out Hollywoodintoto dot com. It is my website now
(44:17):
in its eleventh year. News reviews, commentary, everything from a
right leading perspective. We don't want to chase away our
liberal friends. They can read as well. They can enjoy
the conversations and a lot of the content there is
straight movies, entertainment, TV music, just entertainment in general. We've
got a run of great new reviews last few days
with classic horror movies from our guest critic Barry Wurst.
(44:41):
I love his stuff. I'm so proud to have his
writing on the website. And he's going through movies like
Misery and Iraq Noophobia. It's a great blast from the past.
And if you love horror movies like I do, and
of course it is the season, do check out through reviews.
I think you'll enjoy them a lot. And if you
haven't seen those movies, it paus podcast right now, get
(45:01):
those on your TV asap. They're great films to enjoy
them again. Hopefully this will be healed in no time.
Thank you for your patience, thanks for checking out the show,
and please have the very best week possible. Doctor's Orders
This week in the Hollywood and Toto Podcast, not one,
but two separate interviews for your viewing and listening pleasure.
First up, the great Dennis Jasus is that with a
new film called The Dragon's Prophecy and it looks at
the Israeli Palestine divide in an amazing new way. And
then we talked to director John mcfail about his new
film Grow. It's a pumpkin growing competition with a twist
(00:22):
or two. It's charming, it's sweet, and I can't wait
for you to hear what he has to say about
the film.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Welcome to the Hollywood and Toto Podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Entertainment news and reviews without doubt, woke.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hollywood, narrative, free speech, free expression. Now that's entertainment.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And here's your host, Oh Lord, winning film critic Christian Toto.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Well, first, an explanation. First of all, I've got two
interviews in the proverbial can. The films are out right now,
so I wanted to get this out as soon as
humanly possible, just to make sure that people know about
the films, and also to respect the filmmakers who share
their time with me.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
But also.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I dislocated my finger recently. My life is a mess.
When you type for a living and all of a
sudden you have a big splinter on your hand, Well,
things get a bit complicated. It's impacted my website, Hollywood
and Toto, it's impacting the show. But the show, of
course must go on. So doing a double episode here,
not the traditional monologue. I wanted to give you just
a little bit explanation why the formula here is a
(01:34):
little bit different this week. But let's get to the
main event or the main events. First up is Denish Jisusa.
You've seen his movies, of course for years and years.
You've read his columns, you've read his books. I'm sure,
just a prolific, profound thinker, a really interesting fellow in
the conservative space. And the fact that he transitioned to
filmmaking and has been so successful is a little kind
(01:56):
of a minor miracle onto itself. But also Denesh just
knows what he's doing. His latest project is called The
Dragon's Prophecy, and it looks at the Israeli Palestinian conflict
from a biblical perspective. And you know, the timing is
so curious and so wonderful, because obviously the big peace
deal has been signed. Hopefully that will stay in place.
But why do we need to have that piece deal,
(02:17):
what are the historical ramifications of it? Why are we
here in the first place, and how did the Bible
predict so much of what's going on right now? That's
what this movie shows. It is fascinating. And of course
Denis Juzus is always doing something a little bit different
with each of his films. We get into that in
the conversation as well. So if you want to find
out more about The Dragon's Prophecy, you can check out
(02:38):
The dragonsprophecyfilm dot com. You could buy the film on
DVD right now, or just stream it from your favorite
home viewing device. So hope you enjoy a conversation with
Denish Jesuza. So glad to have him on the show.
And he's always got something unique to say. That's what
makes him so special. Denis Welcome to the show. You know,
sometimes filmmakers can fall into a rut to keep producing
(03:00):
movies that their fans expect or what they maybe it's
their comfort place. But your films don't really fall into
that pattern at all. I mean, Police State is so
different than two Thousand Mules and of course, the Dragon's
prophecy is wildly different as well. Talk just as a filmmaker,
I feel like you're really exploring what you can share
(03:21):
on screen, bouncing from topic topic. What's been your creative approach,
then we'll get more specific about the movie.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Well, my creative approach is very I would say supply
side driven, and by that I mean I actually, although
people credit me with making very timely films, I don't
set out that way. My first film on Obama, I
was intrigued by the idea that he was not the
civil rights guy that people were portraying him to be,
that he seemed to get his ideas from the anti
(03:51):
colonial ideologies of the Third World via of course, his father,
the so called dreams from my father. And I'm like,
this is fascinating. No one else is saying this, and
I think I can not only argue it, but show
it by going into Obama's world. And similarly, in two
Thousand Mules, I'm like, people are talking about everyone stopping
(04:11):
the count and boarded up windows and affid Davids, and
we've heard all that, but if I can show you
just a different way of looking at it, in terms
of cell phone geo tracking and surveillance video. And remember,
as a filmmaker, you know, if you make a film
about people breaking into Fort Knox, you want to see
the guys coming.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
In through the window, and you want to see them.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Taking off, loading the bars of gold into a bag.
You want to see them, you know, filling up the truck.
So I'm always looking for the visual elements that make
the film. But in some ways I think you're right.
This film is a departure for me in this sense
that all my other films are in one way or
another about the meaning of America. The films, in a
(04:53):
way stay home home here in the United States. This
film takes you abrad Israel hamas of unseen footage of
October seventh, the war now the peace Plan. But in
the end the film brings you back home in a
different way, because this is a film ultimately about the Bible.
(05:15):
It's about good and evil. It's about the moral choices
that each of us have to make. And so the
film in the end concludes it's not just about Israel,
It's not just about a war over there. It is
ultimately about a war that has been raging in the
human soul from the beginning of time that forces upon
(05:35):
us a choice of which side we're going to stand on.
So in this sense, my film, more than any of
my previous works, integrates the political with the spiritual and
even the biblical.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know, obviously, as someone concerned about what's going on
in the world, you see October seventies, see the aftermath,
which was in odd ways even more shocking, just the
reaction to what had happened. But what point do you
think this is? My next project was discovering Jonathan Cohn's book.
Was that sort of the key that unlocked things? What
was your creative process to get to where we are
(06:10):
right now?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
In my case, it worked in three steps.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
My wife and I went to Israel for the first
time at the end of twenty twenty two, and I
discovered this biblical archaeology, which I didn't know enough about.
I mean, I've been debating leading apeists around the world,
people like Christopher Hitchins, so I'm familiar with the domain
of Christian apologetics. But what I didn't realize is that
in the last couple of decades, coming out of the
(06:33):
ground in Israel, but not only in Israel, are these coins,
these clay seals, these stone inscriptions, these artifacts, and what
they're doing is they are historically authenticating figures in the Bible.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So you have all these figures in the.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Bible, some in the New Testament, many in the Old
people like Poncious Pilot, the High priest Caiaphas, the prophets Jeremiah, Isaiah,
King David, going back a thousand year before Christ. So
these figures were in the Bible, but only in the Bible.
But now via archaeology, they are jumping into the pages
(07:09):
of history. And I thought, this is fascinating, and I'm like,
why why aren't we hearing this from like the synagogues
and the churches. Why aren't pastors talking about this? So
I thought to myself, I wonder if there's an interesting
film that would cover this territory, because after all, it
is also very visual. You're looking at things and you
can make sense of them. Then fast forward a year
(07:31):
and we have October seventh, and then my wife is
in a telegram channel where she's collecting all this footage
and showing it to me. Look at this some of it,
of course it's hard to watch, but I'm like, I
don't understand why this footage is not being released, like
the world hasn't seen it. Then two years later that's
still the case. So that's how I opened this film,
by the way, the Dragon's prophecy. Then along comes Jonathan Kahn,
(07:54):
and he introduces a new element, which is the element
of biblical prophecy. So I say to myself, all right,
I have the archaeology that's the ancient past, then I
have the war and now of course the peace plan
that's the present. And then we have Khan who is
giving us a tantalizing look at biblical.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Forecasting, you could call it.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
And so if I can weave these together into a tapestry,
it's going to make a really interesting film.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and obviously it did you want to touch brillify
on the footage that you include in the movie. It's
in the beginning. It's hard to watch. I think it's
as tastefully presented as possible, but you also can't escape
what's happening on the screen.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Do you get the sense?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And you kind of hinted it this that not everyone
has not that they've seen this particular footage, but there's
other clips out there that were shot by Hamastra in
this atrocity. Do you get a sense of people just
aren't even aware they haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Well, I think the problem and this is I think
a blunder on the part of the government of Israel
in my opinion, they.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Decided not to show the footage.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Their reason was, I think good, which is for the
families of the hostages.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Let's respect them.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
But see to me as a filmmaker and Krishanra have
to tell you this. You know this as well as anybody.
You know.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
If I were to say to you, I grew up.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
In India and I tell you about my life, it
is a whole different thing to know about me than
if I were to show you a video and say
that's me at the age of seven, that's my house,
that's my family, that's the stuff we ate for breakfast.
That's a whole different experiential idea of what it's like
to grow up in India. So I thought it would
(09:32):
be very important to put people right on the scene.
And I think what makes it particularly fascinating and even
eerie is you're not seeing it from the attacker's point
of view, and a typical film, you know you have
a family there in blissful solitude, and then somebody breaks
a window and the bad guys come in. You see
it from the family's point of view in this case.
The opposite you are like on a motorcycle with a
(09:55):
go pro and you're riding into the kibbutzs across the fence.
You're coming from Gaza. You're with the attackers in this case.
So I thought that was a particularly remarkable and of
course the footage serves the deeper point of also bringing
you kind of face to face with with evil, right
because evil in the world never says it never wears
(10:16):
a name tag I'm evil. You know, it wears the
name tag I'm good. I'm doing something that is very
necessary and important and even virtuous. And of course, after
October seven, Allahu akbar, so God is great. We are
doing God's will. So this is these are the questions
that we wrestle with in the film. And so it
(10:37):
begins in a very gritty way on the ground, but
then pretty soon you're in a very wide angle lens
and you're talking about things like how does the war
between Israel and Hamas resemble the ancient battles in the
Bible between the Israelites, and say, the Philistines.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So you have to watch a film to get all
the different connections and all the just astounding ways that
the past in the present or colliding or connecting. Can
you give us just one example of something in the
film you can share where it really kind of hammers
home the point that the overall film is making.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
So let's tick the example of the Philistines, by the way,
where the ancient enemies of Israel perhaps the most persistent.
The Israelites had other enemies, the Amalekites and the Hittites
and the Moabites, but the Philistines were, like they were
the most long lasting. Now, the name Philistine, the name Palestine,
it's the same name.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
In fact, it's the same word transported through history.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
But here's the point. This is a point, by the way,
I credit to Jonathan Cohn. It's not just the same name,
it's the same tactics. So when there's a biblical hero
named Samson who represents the strength of Israel, Samson is
captured by of all people, the Philistines. The Bible says
that they blinded him, so kind of in the same
(11:56):
way that Israel was blinded on October seventh. The Bible
says they dragged him to Gaza. So Gaza's in the Bible.
It was one of the main cities of the place
called Philistia, which pretty much covered what we now call
the Gaza strip. And the Bible says that the people
of Gaza came out and they wanted Samson to be
stripped of his clothes and brought out so that quote
(12:19):
he may entertain us. Sure enough, right after October seventh,
captives were stripped to the waist, brought out, paraded for
the entertainment of the people of Gaza who were screaming
and shouting in joy, celebrating. And so Khan makes this
arresting statement in the film he goes Samson three thousand
years ago was kind of the first hostage of Gaza.
(12:42):
This is the kind of you know, intriguing and kind
of mind bending type of comparison that you get a
lot of in this film. In the end, it's not
forcing a point of view on you. It's getting you
to really think through some big issues and take your
own stand.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, you know, and I think the usually represent all
these different connections so well in the film. That's a
credit to you as a filmmaker. Yeah, obviously the piece
deal just happened. It's remarkable. You know, whether it can
last is the big question. Obviously it changes the way
you interact and engage with your film. Obviously it's still important.
(13:21):
Obviously it matters. It's almost even more important now just
because history suggests this. You know, the ebb and flow
will continue. But how does making this film and it's
such a deeply personal process for you as a storyteller,
how did that influence the way you've seen the last
few days?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Well, the remarkable thing is the film sort of has
darkness and light built into it, and it's almost like
the events as they unfold are highlighting the one side
or the other. So the darkness is not only October seventh,
but it's really what the film tries to unfurl is
the Devil's handbook. And you realize, you know, people often
(14:02):
say like.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
What would Jesus do? Or what would I want to
be on? What would God think about this? But we
don't often ask, well, how does the devil see it?
Speaker 3 (14:11):
The film goes there, you know, but it doesn't leave
you there, and so there is a note of exhilaration
of spiritual restoration So some of the mood that people
talked about after Charlie Kirk's assassination, for example, the darkness
and then also the call to light, they're both in
the film. So when Trump gets up there and says
thing like it's a new dawn, you know that's in
(14:34):
the film too. But the you know, I would say
that if you believe the Bible, the Bible seems to say, look,
these things, in the final sense are not going to
be settled until the end of time. This is not
to say that you can't make measurable progress, it's not
to say that you can't have good days. But the
idea that this will somehow be let's just say, an
(14:55):
unending era of peace and prosperity. Again, you don't have
to be theological. Just have to look at who you're
dealing with. You know, you're dealing with a group whose
name Hamas and Hebrew basically means destruction or violence. You're
dealing with a group that's dedicated to that. You're dealing
with a group that says things like we love death.
You're dealing with moms who say I've given two sons
(15:17):
to the war, and you might expect her to say
I don't want this war to go on because I
got two more sons. But no, she's like, I can't
wait for the next two to be killed. Also, they
can be martyrs. So we're dealing here with some intractable problems.
Trump has done better than any president I know in
making a headway here, and I want to give him
the full credit for that. I also like the fact
(15:37):
that he's outlining this almost messianic vision for the future,
which I think is something that we need to hear.
But another side of us, and again these sides are
both in the film. Another side of us says, well,
we also have to remember that the bad guys aren't
going away. They haven't actually had a true change of heart.
(15:58):
They might have been bludgeoned into a temporary truth, but
their motives are going to remain the same, and so
there's going to be a lot for us to deal with.
The film is not at any risk of becoming obsolete.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Oh gosh, No, it's actually more important now than it
was a week ago.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Honestly.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
You know, one thing I want to mention is the
this is just my interpretation, I think you can confirm it.
There are sequences in the film that felt like there
were maybe AI generated and I know that in Hollywood
that's the third rail. You can go there and understand
that from many perspectives. But you're a filmmaker who doesn't
have a sony or a paramount or a what are
brothers behind you? So I imagine it's sort of a
(16:34):
necessary way to get this story across. I just want
to get your thoughts as an artist about that process,
the good and the bad, and can you understand some
of the fears behind it too?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
For sure.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I mean what we do with the AI is very
kind of defined and concrete, and that is we use
it to recreate Biblical times. Now, you know as well
as I do that it would take hundreds of thousands
of all is to shoot a single scene. Normally for
a documentary, what you do is you buy and large
(17:05):
use clips from other movies. But if we were to
take clips from you know, co of Artists over here,
and the Ten Commandments over there, and the Passion of
the Christ over here, what would happen is there'd be
a jumpiness. You'd basically be seeing that these are flashes
from other movies that you may or may not have seen.
What the AI does is it gives you a certain
type of visual consistency. You also recognize it to be AI.
(17:29):
So the film is ninety percent our own footage. But
at times, you know, I'm standing on the Pilgrimage Road,
which is the ruins of an old biblical highway, and
I thought, how cool it is to go from me
standing on this on these ruins, to then seeing what
that road might have actually looked like. When Mary and
Joseph are walking a twelve year old Jesus to the temple,
(17:52):
you can totally see how they might lose their kid.
And so the AI really helps to show, you know,
the ancient pilgrims and their selling loaves and there are
birds flying around and they're exchanging coins. That's how it
must have felt like. And so we use the AI sparingly,
but I think in a pretty effective way.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, you know one thing I want to ask you about,
just in kind of taking a broader look at the culture.
I mean, you've been at the forefront of this. You're
a pioneer in the space. People who are on the
right or even just unorthodox storytellers are now getting their
chance to tell their movies. I mean, like you mentioned,
like the AI access wasn't available to you ten years ago.
There are filmmakers who's pooped up a website, They get
(18:33):
a documentary, they might put things on X and all
of a sudden, millions of people are seeing it. It's
a whole new world. It sounds grandiose, but it's true.
How would you judge what's happening as a right of
center person looking at the arts, looking at pop culture,
what's working, what needs to get to be improved.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Well, the hard thing for someone like me is simply
the fact that because there is so much content, and
there's so much free content, it's very difficult to have
these films be economically viable because they to do them well.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, you know as I do.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That you can spend fifty thousand dollars and make a documentary.
You interview seven guys in the same room, and then
you just throw some backgrounds and you take some stock
footage and you just slap it together. But it costs
a few million bucks to make a really good film,
and it costs more money to then market it, so
you have to get it back, and that means people
(19:30):
need to be willing to pay for this kind of content.
I think what happens is in today's world, particularly because
people are jumping around from one place to another. They'll
watch a few clips and then they go, well, I
kind of have the gist of what this guy is
trying to say. And so there is for me the
challenge of making really good films where people feel like,
(19:51):
you know what, I need to have the actual experience
of watching this film, and that is hard to do.
And as you know, there's virtually no one in this
space who by and large can make this stuff work economically.
Michael Moore is pretty much out of the documentary film business.
Last I heard he was like giving away tickets to
his films, like on the Streets of New York. I'm
(20:14):
not quite reduced to that stage yet, but I do
think that this is in many ways my most cinematic
and some other people have said the most sort of
profound themes that I've covered in any of my in
any of my films.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Yeah, I mean I've watched almost all of them, if
not all of them, and I do see the evolution.
I mean, not that you were a bad storyteller from
the jump, but I can see the richness of the
presentation is grown and grown over each particular film. Do
you have a project that's lined up next? I don't
want to kind of go too far ahead, but I'm
always curious about what you have to say. And like
(20:47):
you said, you seem to have a finger on the
zeitgeist more than most people. What's on your agenda at
this point?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
So you know, I'll focus this fall on this project
and on trying to get it as widely circulated as possible.
It also has international possibilities that some of my other
films don't have, And like you say, it's more timely
now than when I made it, So it's you know,
it's always nice to surf on the wave. Very difficult
(21:15):
when you make a film on a topic that no
one's like talking about right now. Yeah, And so what
I'm doing is I'm hatching a couple of new projects
for next year. Again, you know, I do it not
by kind of trying to take the temperature of the culture.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
I kind of assume I already have that.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
And so I think to myself, like, what's really intriguing
to me? Now? What do I think I can I
can deal with in a fresh and original way. I
never start out by wanting to do a film that
is a regurgitation of the debate as it currently exists.
I want to move it forward, and so I have
to ask myself, what do I have to say in
this next project that is genuinely original, genuinely important and
(21:56):
it's going to make a difference. Comes back to that
sort of good old Linden Johnson question that he would
ask after every meeting.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
It's like, and therefore, what you know?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I mean, what follows from all this intriguing though it
might be, what is the practical takeaway or the consequence
of it all? And so those are the questions I
try to answer in my own mind before embarking on
a project.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
One last question, Maybe the budget maybe gives me the
answer because it could be much more expensive. But would
you ever want to make a narrative film to kind
of move away from the documentary style format? I know
your films aren't specifically documentary, they're their own beast in away,
But has that it you ever presents itself with that
something you'd like to scratch?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
For sure?
Speaker 4 (22:39):
You know?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think it was going back now to my one
of my earliest films, America.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
I think it was America.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I had all the top people at Lionsgate at up
premiere in LA and they looked at the film and
then they pulled me aside and they go, this is
a really good movie. And they go, Deness, you really
should consider doing feature films because you have the knack,
you have the eye for it, and so I am
intrigued by that idea. I think these days we have
(23:05):
to always look to see what are the right sort
of platforms that one could make that kind of film.
The conservative right of center market is not accustomed with
some exceptions. I mean, Angel Studios does its own thing.
Daily Wire has done some stuff in it in its space.
But I think in terms of really breaking ground and
feature films that have mainstream markets and a widely watched
(23:29):
you know, I would like to pioneer that space, but
I feel like it has to be the right project
and the right type of distribution. Christian, if I can
say about this film, the website is The Dragons prophecyfilm
dot com. It's the Dragons plural prophecy, and don't forget
the film The Dragons prophecyfilm dot Com. The film isn't streaming,
(23:50):
it's in DBD. I think people will find it well.
As you said, it's it's timely and yet it's also
very timeless.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, and it's also provocative too. Listen if you only
saw the movie to see some of that footage that
with that Hamas captured, it's important. Like you said, I
think that. I think the Israeli government created a maybe
a forty five minute film sort of a it's Google
should say, like a best of what was going on,
and they showed it to certain journalists and they certain
they showed it to certain people in Hollywood. But maybe
they should have just let it out. And I understand
(24:18):
these sensitivity. Maybe they could have blurred out faces and things.
But as much it's why you do what you do
when you're you understand what's going on. To see it
is so different, and I think it lands differently and
you just can't get those images at your head. That
of course, that's just part of the Dragon's prophecy. Do
check it out and I get you know, it's funny
you mentioned the snippet. You get it just the movie.
(24:39):
I want to give people it gist of the movie,
but you really have to see it from start to
finish to get what's going on to get the breadth
of the argument. The conversation here.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
So you know what, talking to people about the film,
they're like, well, Danesha, you know, are you giving away
the film? I'm like, no, I can't give away the film,
even if I want to write it's like you take
any good film.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I can pick the shawsh Ankle, Damnation.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
If you ask people like what's it about, They're gonna
be like, well, it's about friendship. Well it's about prisons.
It doesn't even begin to do justice to the appearance
of watching the film. The same is true here. I
can talk about it. I give you little provocative hints
about what's in the film. Yeah, but you got to
check the film for yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
So you get earn filmmaker. Now you know the deal
and you know how to produce films that matter, that
speak to what we're talking about right now, and that
grab you by the collar and don't let go. And
that's of course The Dragon's Prophecy, The Dragons prophecyfilm dot com.
Check it out, streaming, DVD, whatever your preferred method of
watching it, but just do watch it. Thanks so much,
A treat to talk to you as always, and I
(25:39):
look for your next project.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
They're always good Christian it's it's always a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Our second interview this week is with director John McPhail.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Now he's not a.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Household name, he's not a Steven Spielberg, but he's a young,
talented filmmaker and he caught my attention a couple of
years ago with a movie called Anna and the Apocalypse.
It was a zombie movie with music and humor and
a lot of heart and of course some brains. It's
a zombie movie, and I thought, oh my gosh, what
an interesting storyteller. I'm kind of curious to see what
he has up his sleeve next. Well, turns out it's
(26:10):
a movie called Grow. It's a story about a young girl.
She's been kind of passed around the foster care system,
finds a new place to call home, and now she
wants to make her mark by entering a pumpkin growing competition.
But it's not so easy. This is a small town
that takes its pumpkins very seriously. There are sort of
evil players afoot here. Every time I touch a plan,
(26:31):
it's like I can feel what they're feeling. She's entering
the pumpkin contest.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
This is all out vegetable warfare.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
You want to steal our secrets. And even better, there's
a significant role played by the great Nick Frost. He
is part of this ensemble cast. He is wonderful as always,
as is the film. This is an absolute charmer, one
of those It's good for the whole family, and the
whole family will enjoy it. Won't be sitting there cringing
(27:01):
while their kids have a gay old time. It's just
a really sweet, charming, family friendly movie with a bite,
with some things to say, with some stories to share
about families and connection and even the environment to doo
and no worry, it's not preachy.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
But that's part of it as well.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
So I hope you enjoyed my conversation with John mcfail.
I'm so curious to see what he does next. He's
one of those filmmakers you could think, oh gosh, this
guy's got talent. He's got an interesting eye for stories,
and I just I'm always curious to see how those
careers evolve, and I think his is well in its way.
The new movie Again is Grow. It is in theaters
right now, So please enjoy my conversation with gross director
(27:37):
John mcfail. We're all set well, John, Thank you so
much for joining the show and sharing a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I do appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
No, no, thank you, Amy, thank you very much for
taking to take me to talk of the film.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Well, obviously you've done horror before. You've woven in some
humorous elements. You got that under your belt. This one
is a much more gentle story. The humor is still there.
It's a little bit of a fantasy as a film maker,
as a young filmmaker, what's it like to kind of
expand your canvas and kind of go in this a
little bit of a different direction for what you've done
in the past.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
I mean, like what always draws me the scripts, you know,
it doesn't really matter what genres his character like, and
like I just loved the sort of the Charlie Dinad
than that dynamic, that sort of unconventional mother daughter story
and like sort of like characters that are like just
fireworks popping off all around it, you know, Like I
love that, like and like I love an audience. Like
(28:32):
That's what I'm here for, is to tell stories to
audiences and like sort of like you know, explode that.
Like for this, it was like what I really wanted
to do was create that like shared experience. Like I
grew up watching like you know, the Goonies and Short
Circuit and like, you know, like all these sort of
like family films where like my parents like it was
(28:55):
like a Friday Saturday night we would all be like
huddled around the TV watching like a VHS my mum's
taped off the TV or rented from Buster or something,
and like that was everything to me. That like weekends,
like you know, and I just I just had this
sort of like this, as I say, that's real, you know,
curiosity to try and so see if I could emulate
(29:17):
that that As I say, I wanted the kids laugh
and you know, the parents laugh and even like you know,
the little horror elements that you put up put in
which is like to sort of scale them, but also
like the parents are laughing and the kids then it's it's,
as I say, it's just this this sort of real
fun dynamic.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, you know, I won't spoil. There's an homage to
Psycho which is just wonderful, completely g rated, but it
is I think parents and the audience will enjoy that.
You know. Some films for the whole family have some
darker themes to them heavier themes. This one, for sure.
You've got a young girl who misses her mom, that
there's a you know, looking for new connections. Talk about
(29:55):
you know, weaving that into a story without scaring the kids,
without making it too heavy. I think you've got the
balance just right. But as a storyteller, how do you
work on that, on that kind of that maneuver that
you know, because it's not easy, I'd imagine, Well.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
It's it's just trying to connect the you know, like
the audience. I think that we can all sort of like,
you know, understand that relationship between the two of them,
that reluctance and then that sort of like coming together. Yeah,
you know, Charlie's desperate to belong and they'd desperate to
be a family, and Diana's lost the urge to sort
of to nut sure and need to grow and to
sort of watch that kind of come together, I felt like,
(30:31):
you know what, I love color and film like I
love it, and like like trying to sort of make
the farm and everything feel really colorful when you through
like even their costume and things like that, where we
start to really bring color into their lives again as
they sort of grow, and I feel like that that
will keep that sort of dynamic dynamic there, like even
(30:52):
sort of the mum side of it, you know. Again,
not to get any spoilers or anything like that, I
think it's dead easy for like the audience to hate up.
And I always like the challenge would be on the stander,
you know, and going through that, like I thought would
be a better approach rather than sort of eyes and
her and sort of do you know what I mean?
And like I felt, you know, Catherine Drysday had done
(31:13):
a great, a really really great job with that. But
again going back to sort of like the Charlie and
Dyna dynamic, I feel like it's it's it's such it's crucial.
And when I've got two like like really really good
actor was just bouncing off each other and then neck
Frost as well, and it's just just magic, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah. The young star I don't know her before prey
of Rose Brockwell, Hope Brokewell and pronouncing her name correctly,
she's terrific, you know. I mean, she really carries the
movie and it's incumbent on her to kind of hold
things together. Talk about working with her and working with
the young actors, I mean just I imagine as a director,
you know, working with adults, you can steer them a
(31:57):
certain way. They accept, you know, direction younger Store just
doesn't have the years of experience, but she handles it
so well. What was the then every between the two
of you.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Pray is incredible, Like like I like that, Like she
is like, hands down one of the best actresses I've
ever worked with. Like she's she takes I would speak
to the same we would speak to Nick and golder
like and I would walk away, Oh no, I've just
you know, spoken to her child like she's in her forties,
like you know, it's it's but she she's she's so clever,
(32:29):
she's so intuitive. Always said to her as well, like
when when we were shooting, which is and in the moment,
if it feels right, go your gut, just go with it.
And like, you know, I trusted her a lot because
she's you know, she she could handle it all and
as well as actually grew in confidence with that as well.
She had so much coming in. But like you know,
(32:50):
like things like that, just just going with things in
the moment and trying things, particularly when you've got when
you've got Nick, you know, there and she was just
so of us. I said, she she loved Golda. She's
just adult Golda, and she's a like a false of
nature herself. She's an increasible, atous, incredible woman as well.
So like you surrounded by the two of them all day,
(33:12):
you know, she just sort of, as I said, I
just took everything on and you with pre like you
just had to reminder, like you know, like if you
had a long break of going between things, she's to
be like, we're here, here, here, here, and she had it,
you know, she was just.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
When you work.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I mean, this is mostly an adult cast, but doors
like her and other younger performers here. Does that help
you make a family friendly movie? I mean, you know
we're both adults. Our childhoods are behind us. But you know,
you summon your inner child as best you can. But
having the real thing in front of you, do you
kind of look at their feedback, gauge their reactions. Does
(33:50):
their presence maybe help really focus what you're trying to achieve? Her?
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I don't know. I think you know, we we kind
of like I know what I want before I come in.
I'm very I'm very collaborative director, Like I love working
with actors. I love working with my crew as well,
you know, working with like such talent all around me.
So but I know what I want from it, and
then from that, everybody's just building on it, you know.
(34:17):
So going in, Like as I said, I knew what
I wanted. I'm a big kid, Like doesn't matter how
old I get, I'm a big, big kid. So like
there's lots of things in that that's just bringing out
that in their child, really because you're getting to play
in that space. And like I don't know how many
times I say this, this was one of the best
(34:40):
sets I've ever had, Like it was so much fun.
Like Golda and Nick didn't want to go to the trailers.
They just wanted to be on set all the time.
They just wanted to be around the crew, like and
that fed into the rest of the cast, like nobody
wanted to go to their trailers. The kids we were
having to like take them off set to go to
like to do their education and stuff because this of
study and then they have to have downtime as well
(35:01):
as they educating time. But their standings, like the kids
who played their standings were so funny, Like it so
funny and like so we're always laughing. So like I
feel like, you know, when you create an environment like
that and like everybody's having like a really really nice time,
everybody's enjoying company work and having so much fun, it
(35:22):
kind of you know, bleeds into the film.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, how do you create I mean, obviously the actors
play their part, they've got the personalities to match the set.
You're trying to create the atmosphere. But what can you
do maybe even early on in the shoot where you
kind of let people know this is not going to
be a traditional set. This is going to be more open,
more funded. Are there things as the director, now that
you've got a few films under your belt that you
(35:46):
can kind of gently set in motion to kind of
make that happen and make it permissible.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
I always do it in prep, like like as soon
as I sit down in my head's at departments, I
tell them what I'm looking for. But like as I
always tell them before they go, it's like I want
your stamp all over this, Like I want I want
you involved in this, like bringing everybody in and with
the cast. It was like on the very like I
I tried to do this on every first day rehearsal,
which is I do a day of clown and then
(36:11):
it's not clown like happy happy, like you know, it's
more mime. It's more about your physicality and understanding your body.
But there's a lot of fun games in there, and
there's a lot of like sittiness that's involved in that.
So when me and there's the director that's stepping in
with my cast and it's like silly games, it's like
you have a moo off where it's two people sort
(36:33):
of down on all floors and then look at each
other and then moo first want to laugh is out
And when you've got the detector on the floor mooing
at the number one on the call sheet like like
you know, you know, it just melts away all that
kind of like fear or ego or like and this
is this is to be fun and we've to explode
(36:54):
this and try this and like as I said, it's
just it's just about as I said, trying to be
as open as possible with people from the get go
and then carrying that through.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Gotcha, you set the things, they just take it from there.
I let's talk Nick Frost. You know, he's so great
on screen He's perfect with this kind of movie because
he's so charming and lovable but a little eccentric at
the same time. Where is he what's he like on
like you know, behind the scenes working on different setups.
I mean, what do you see that we don't get
a chance to see we see the finished product. He's
always charming off the charts. But working with him, what
(37:28):
did you find?
Speaker 4 (37:29):
Honestly, there was a dream like and I know people
will be like, honestly is exactly what you would imagine,
like like genuinely what you would imagine is such a
fun guy, such a given guy. He is always trying things,
like you know, and and like you know, offering things
and going with things in the moment. And again at
(37:52):
the same time, if it's not something I'm digging, I'll
just you know, it takes it and he's like pro
and and you know he doesn't have like a as
I say, like an ego, like and that's what we
really really surprised me. Like right across the Bold none
of them did, Like again Jane Horwicks and Tim mckinnellly,
I grew up watching like like like I love Black
(38:12):
at that was like like the huge in my household
and I'm getting to work with Tim, and it just
it just wants to play. It just wants to have fun.
And like and as I say, the same with Neck,
it was just it was just always the you know
Neck Frost, I said.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know, one of the things they inter thinking about
the film, and it has sort of a gentle environmental
message here, certainly not hitting you over the head. It's
certainly woven into the story from what Charlie can do
to other elements there. Sure, you know, I think kids
will get an interesting perception of kind of taking care
of the world around us. But talk a little bit
(38:49):
of that element to the film.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
I mean, and like, like you said, I never wanted
to be MD over the head with like I feel like,
you know, the core message was there and that the
film is about not stringing and grow both and with
those themes in there, and there's certain certain little things
that we're doing, you know, trying to move away from
the chemicals and become more more organic and and I
think kids can understand that. Again, it's never browbeating them.
(39:13):
We did originally and we shot a couple of like
set like scenes where I think it was nick but
spoke up a little bit more about the turmoil that's
going on in the world, and when we watched it,
it was actually my head that was like, I don't
think we need this, Like I really don't like It's
just like as a father, like he was coming into
(39:33):
this going, you know, like, do I want my kids
listening to this? And do I want to be thinking
about it while I'm there? And as I said, audience
is so important to me. So anything that was ever
going to wake people out or make them feel uncomfortable
in a place where it's there, they'll enjoy themselves. They
have to forget about the world's problems for a little bit,
you know. But I feel like the eco messages there
(39:54):
and that's sort of like you know, you know, obviously
trying to get kids to sort of your big site
about plants and growth like that is all there without
you know, like forcing it down MD's throat.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Gotcha, I want to backp it a little bit. I
just was so charmed by And then the apocalypse. It
was such a it was such a project that could
have went up the rails had just been a disaster,
but of course it wasn't clear cult hit and just
so charming and so well assembled. What did you take
away from that project? Because you know, as a younger filmmaker,
it just seemed like to balance those elements, to bring humor,
(40:29):
to bring music, to bring a dash of horror, it
seemed like a very daunting task. Obviously you succeeded, But
what did you did it build your confidence? Did it
kind of let you tackle different types of stories? What
did you take away from experience?
Speaker 4 (40:44):
Like, like a lot of it. As I said, it has
been about growth and that sort of My first film
was like a fifty grand like romantic comedy that met
all my mates made we'd be making sure spelled into that.
So this was that like next step for me. I
feel like like after it that I could take it.
And I was so precise with like how I wanted
(41:05):
to use the three arts structure as ways of building genre,
even like my love for color, Like you know, like
we all those sort of reds and greens and yellows
and blues, and by the end of it, you know,
because it's the film sort of souls those colors twist
and become the sort of peaches and pinks and turquoises.
It's still keeping it nice and color, colorful and vibrant,
(41:26):
but there is that shift and change and obviously I
love taking that through and that's something like, you know
that I want to keep trying, like as I go
and we grow. That was kind of the same thing,
you know, to orange and then pulled it out of
everything as much as possible and sort of built all
the color around it, you know, the little hints of
orange here, but once the pumpkin arrives, it feels like
(41:48):
it just finishes the palor which is which is because
now as they've came together, you know, and the farm
starts to get more colorful, and.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah, it's fascinating. It's kind of thing you probably on
some level get, but maybe not even kind of can
name it there, but there it is. One quick last question,
just because you've worked with the horror before, Horror seems
like it's having a moment right now. We've had some
really great films obviously working well at the box office.
I feel like there's a generation of young storytellers like
yourself who really kind of get the genre. Do you
think it's just sort of a cyclical thing or what
(42:23):
any sort of thoughts on why horror is just having
sort of a close up at this point, I.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Don't think it's ever left. Though I love horror. I'm like,
how horror, you know, Like I love horror, like it's
but it's something I grew up with, and I think
that horror can always kind of challenges. It can take
us into the sort of this some of the darkest
places of even from humanity. It's just psychology, you know.
And then as well as it can it can be
(42:49):
really funny, like and you know, really close to the
bone and you know, and again sort of taking it
like as I say, like a proper close look at
humanity and I demons, you know, like the films I
grew up watching, you know, like you know, like ringing
things as well, and even something really close like the Bapat,
which is all about trauma and exploding that kind of
(43:11):
trauma and we as like an audience, we all we've
all experienced trauma on our lives and sort of you know,
facing that, and a film I think is always as
satisfying or like, you know, facing those fields. I'll like that.
I love about it.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Well, I hope that you'll go back to heart at
some point, but for now we're talking grow It is
in theaters starting October third, so do check it out.
Fun for the whole family. I smiled a lot through
this movie. I think people will like it and it's
the kind of movie where, yes, the kids will love it,
but I think your parents and the crowd will will
be equally charmed and amused by it, which is like
the perfect the sweet spot as you were, as it were.
But John, thanks for checking taking the time to speak
(43:50):
to me, and we show all the best with the film.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
Well, thanks very much, question like, I really appreciate this.
Thank here.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
Well that's it for this week's unique special episode, a
very special episode of the Grand Blossom tradition. Hopefully this
will be healing in no time and I'll be back
to my regular workload again. Thanks for your patience, Thanks
for listening to the show and also telling a friend
if you're enjoying the conversations we're having here and do
check out Hollywoodintoto dot com. It is my website now
(44:17):
in its eleventh year. News reviews, commentary, everything from a
right leading perspective. We don't want to chase away our
liberal friends. They can read as well. They can enjoy
the conversations and a lot of the content there is
straight movies, entertainment, TV music, just entertainment in general. We've
got a run of great new reviews last few days
with classic horror movies from our guest critic Barry Wurst.
(44:41):
I love his stuff. I'm so proud to have his
writing on the website. And he's going through movies like
Misery and Iraq Noophobia. It's a great blast from the past.
And if you love horror movies like I do, and
of course it is the season, do check out through reviews.
I think you'll enjoy them a lot. And if you
haven't seen those movies, it paus podcast right now, get
(45:01):
those on your TV asap. They're great films to enjoy
them again. Hopefully this will be healed in no time.
Thank you for your patience, thanks for checking out the show,
and please have the very best week possible. Doctor's Orders
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