August 11, 2025 • 52 mins
Joey ventured to Virginia to attend the Emerging Civil War Symposium at Stevenson's Ridge. He took some time to talk with Civil War Trails Executive Director, Chris Brown (not the rapper) and historian Richard Lewis (not the comedian) about their experience over the weekend!
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Want to support the show? Visit buymeacoffee.com/homebrewhistory and become a monthly subscriber to access bonus episodes and exclusive member's only livestreams!
Remember, Home Brew History is brought to you by #civilwartrails! Learn more here: https://www.civilwartrails.org/
Home Brew History is partnered with the Bearded Historian, Jeff Williams. Check out his designs here: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheBeardedHistorian
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Welcome back to humber History. It is Joey Alsolo no bo.
I am out on a little adventure in the wilds
of Virginia for the Emerging Civil War Symposium, which I'm
really glad to have been invited back, and I'm really
glad to spend a weekend with some of the great
emerging voices in the Civil War field. And I'm even
(00:51):
more delighted to share sleeping quarters with two of the
finest voices in the Civil War field and our sponsor
for our show. So I'm saying this with a gun
to my head and a money bag sitting on the floor.
Chris Brown, executive director of Civil War Trails, is here,
as is our good friend Richard Lewis. Not to be
confused with the comedian. I'm funnier. He is funnier, and
(01:14):
he's also alive.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, which Mark, that's hilarity.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I still have a pulse and he doesn't. But that's
how you're saving in my phone. Did you know that? No,
Richard Lewis company, not the comedian. Oh brackets still alive. Yeah,
And that came really from Catherine. She was like, his
name is Richard Lewis and said, yeah, she was for
guy who loves Curby enthusiasm as much as you do.
How is it having a friend who's also named Richard
(01:47):
Lewis while also idolizing a man whose friend is named
Richard Lewis. It could have been worse.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I knew an old gentleman out in the Shenandoa Valley
whose name was Ronald McDonald. Can you imagine him looking
at a television screen in nineteen sixty two and going.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Oh no, as someone who shares a name with a
very problematic rapper, identify who has not become popular until
I was in high school.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It was a very rough time. I think what I'm
gonna do is when it changed the name in your
contact too, is mean Chris Brown, not the problematic rapper.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
I'm without the allegations.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So, deary listener, this is what the whole weekend really
has been. Is this? And Bert Tunkerly around one am
saying he takes the big thumbs up. So so I mean,
why are we here? What's the big draw? I mean?
And we can? I think the three of us can
probably talk about this for a little while. Why do
you come to emerging the Civil War? And Chris you
(02:52):
can't say to get people to buy more signs like that.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
No, this weekend, bro Sure Distribution was playing for the weekend.
But I will say, as someone who's been with Civil
War Trails for almost a decade now, but it's new
and the role that I'm in getting to get out
of the business administration and infrastructural planning of the job
(03:17):
of running a nonprofit and get back in front of
the people who are excited to pull over and distract
their entire road trips to make sure that it's not
but the freshest Civil War Trails site. To be around
people who are passionate about what the business and nonprofits
is every day and want to learn the new evolving
civil war history. I think there's nothing quite like that.
(03:39):
And I will say this is my first ECW.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, last year when you were here, it was hey, Chris,
come set up and then promptly go put in more
signs and please go sweat some more over here somewhere else.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
So it's been an adventure. That's my first go round.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, And okay, so you're saying it's first time thoughts.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
I think it is remarkable to watch a younger generation
and by younger that is, relative to the Civil World War.
To watch a younger generation come in and be steering
in the conversation, I think that is one of the
cooler things. I think that's one of the things that
ECW does so well.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And Richard, you've been in the Civil war world, Yeah,
you know, and I don't think become similar backgrounds different times.
But there's nothing like emerging Civil War really anywhere else
in the country.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I see it as a passing of the baton from
one generation of Civil War historians to a new generation
which is more diverse than the old generation was, and
which has a new outlook, a new perspective, all things
that are sorely needed in a field that can become very,
very old and covered in cobwebs.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Detail oriented, detailed w because the awesome way to put that.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
But Dale, Yeah, but I'll say this for personally, and
I will be seventy years old in two months, and
I have been to symposia, oh my god, since my twenties,
and honest to goodness, I come to this mostly to
socialize and to see old friends and hang out and
(05:25):
to be somebody because I am loosely tied to Civil
War trails, so I can sit back in the back
of the room with the glitterati and not upfront with
the great unwashed masses. No, I'm not gonna go there,
but it does put us closer to the.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
The fay table. It's always yeah. Yeah. I saw you
make the the over the shoulder and look at Chris
and I to get in line, which I understood, and
you took a man. Well, it wasn't so much time.
It was just is it our turn? And then I
realized rules, Yeah, when you're sitting by the it, you
do what you want. Well, that looks it.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Was like Ted Turner in the movie Gettsburg, Come on by.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And I heard that, yeah, to take bullet to the
chest and keeel over. So we've we spent all weekend, Friday,
all of today, and we stayed up a little too
late last night admittedly, but I think we got a
chance to absorb some really great topics. And like you said,
(06:28):
a younger crowd, I think when Evan Portman and Tyler
McGraw walk into a room, the mean average age of
the entire room drops by thirty years easily. Yes, So
it's really interesting to hear people that say things like oh,
young people don't care about history, they're so stupid or whatever.
And then you look around that room and all of
(06:50):
the people who presented today being under the age of fifty,
they've won yep.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
And taken seriously at the same shot. Right, So there
is the conversation of you know, this is an older rooms,
as you know symposia can be. But not a one
of those presenters did not A have their research on
lock and or b was not taking seriously because of
their age, which can be a problem in other circles.
(07:19):
I think it is very telling that emerging Civil War
courts and supports folks starting out, because there's nothing else
that does that, I don't think in the way that
emerging Civil war does and has been such an encouragement
to so many people.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
Well, you know, the the the availability for people of
a younger age who need the experience of researching and
presenting a paper in front of a live audience, and
of a live audience that is.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Not necessarily college age.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
This is about the only the only resource I can
imagine that is out there for that for that group.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
And an interesting split of an audience who content wise
is interested and will be sympathetic to a point, but
will also challenge your research in a way that folks
who have only done in a collider setting don't get,
because the people in this room have read more books
on more niche subjects than anyone else, Like Canine putting
(08:20):
a room together.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I mean, we were having a conversation at Strange Ways, which,
by the way, Homber History Listeners is a brewery here
in Virginia. And if I had bo we'd still be there.
There are three of them. He'd still be sampling. Yeah,
he wouldn't even have gotten his first drink. He'd still
be sampling the variety of choices. Yeah, light number three.
(08:43):
But when we were sitting there talking with Kevin Donovan,
he's quoting an obscure book and referencing a mistake that
was in it and then giving the factual basis and
showing where that author got their mistaken source material from
(09:04):
from memory, from memory, which is amazing.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
And those conversations were also happening all around us.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, that's not isolated, that's not a one off. Yeah.
I mean when you listen to Ted Savas talk about
George Rain's in the City of Augusta and what it
has to do with gunpowder and saltpeter production as much
as you'd want to know, more than you want to know.
If you ever had a question, you didn't, but if
you did, he's got you. It was answered. That level
(09:36):
of detail, that level of understanding is I think it's
almost commonplace in that baseline. Yeah it is. Yeah, I
leave these I feel an incredible amount of imposter syndrome
when I leave these things. It's like we're saying, they
let me get up there and give a talk with
my with myne No, I ain't get any of their talk.
(09:59):
And then did you realize is that nobody's out to
get you? Nobody's out I gotcha? You know that just
doesn't happen here the way that it does in some
other places.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
And the Q and A sessions are often Okay, I've
got a connection that I think works with this, right?
Does this go with what you're talking about? And it's
a great constructive feedback loop where with folks who aren't
as in the know, it meant probably wouldn't be well.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know, emergencivil War. You see it the year after
year there is a broad theme topic. This year it
was cities in the Civil War.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Within that I felt like the subject matter from every
one of the presenters was wonderfully curated as if they
had been given those assignments by Christmas Kowski.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
You know, we want you to cover this.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, each topic was about a different city, but each
topic was also within that that subject covered a different
look at whatever it was. I just thought that was
wonderful to listen to, and it kept the audience. Thought
that the audience was engaged throughout.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
To the other great thing about and you kind of
hinted at it's like the networking. There's different civil war
and education entities here. You know, there's people who work
for the American Battlefield Trust. There's people who are their
full time is emerging civil War. There's Civil War Trails,
Central Virginia Battlefield Trust is here. You know, like there's
(11:32):
all these different groups. So sometimes what happens, especially in
those kind of academic circles or even in the public
history field, is we know, we're really the voice for
civil war educator, We're now we're the voice for civil
and then everybody all of a sudden it's Spartacus, right,
(11:53):
So I felt to today and in years asset that
just kind of doesn't fly here.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Well, and you know, what is absent here at Emerging
Civil War is any sense of hierarchy. There is no
lofty academic to whom you must bow down. There's no
historian that's been out in the field for forty to
fifty years who you have to cowtow to, and all
this stuff. People are on a level plane here, level
(12:20):
playing surface, and there's a lot of respect I think
between the speakers and the staff and the audience. You know,
everybody's accessible too.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
That's another thing I think that's part of the culture
of that Emerging Civil War is cultivated very purposefully, is
that it is a democratized effort and it doesn't give
to the you know, great historian on a throne he
must approach. It's no, you've done the research, you're the expert.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
And I think that is what makes this difference than
so many other conferences could be. And to your point,
the organizations aren't. We're all excited to be in this room,
to get in front of guests that maybe we don't
see every day.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I mean, for simple war trails.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
I can speak to that experience when I'm digging holes
or spraying paint or putting new panels in I don't
always see the eager reader who's excited to find new signs.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But you know what, I saw him this weekend. Yeah,
and they came up and told you, I.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Told you all about And I think it's the same
for a lot of your other like Central Virginia battlefields,
they're a little more public facing at times, but I
saw them get swarmed with fans and they were the
same people circulating through talking to everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah. And what's great too, is like you have authors
who are here pushing their books. So if Dave Powell
was here ne Fadelaine, of course Neil's going to be here,
he has no choice. Yeah, But then Sean Chick is here,
He's pushing on his books, on his Shadow Map book.
Dave Powell's got every book that's ever been written ever
in the history of time, in the history of Dave
(13:56):
Powell writing books on his table, that table the leg
because on that thing, did you see how the table
was just kind of like the middle? And then two
we this is this is a great Civil Wars emposium
in that it has an international following. Now from the
acw UK roundtable to have Darren Rawlins come over and
(14:20):
not only being like the the Internet it guy for ECW,
but to then also bring his knowledge of British citizens
who took up arms and find the American Civil War
and then went back home to England and saw it
as you know, it's just simply their duty. Or Americans
who then relocated to England after the war and started
(14:43):
their own gar But did you share that knowledge. That's
an aspect of this that I just you can't get
anywhere else.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah, well, Chris, I think right now is the time
for you and me to commandeer this podcast and turn
the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Wait, no, no, we have to do actually, we have
to do a commercial break. Oh oh, sehi, that's tactic. Yeah, yeah,
commercial break, and then hopefully they'll forget whatever they're going
to say next. That's always the goal. So we'll be
right back. We're gonna do quick commercial and we'll catch
back up.
Speaker 7 (15:16):
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Speaker 1 (17:11):
And on YouTube.
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Speaker 1 (17:23):
And we're back. That was two minutes of me having
to listen to my own voice with other people in
the room, because normally want to do this. I'll start
the commercial and I'll just walk out the room for
two minutes, and then I come back when I hear
like and subscribe, by the way, like and subscribe, and
then I and then I come back, and I know,
(17:44):
all right, it's time to get serious and buckle down.
So you were about to hijack the podcast, I very
conveniently delayed my own fate.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, there were more than one hundred people today that
got to listen to your voice.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Not just you, but all of us did. And for
those need to know this.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Joe was topping the bill today after two days of
speech to five with some of the five young historians.
Who was the cleanup hitter, But Joe, But our friend
Joe did a great job, did a great job on
a subject that I guarantee most people in the room
had no clue about it.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I was glad to hear that. Guys.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
It is one of the great opportunities not only for
someone like you, but in general about the whole weekend,
is being able to do topics that are maybe non traditional.
I think, Joe, you picked a fantastic one that most
of the folks in that room probably never thought about,
even though some of the folks's been coming here for
more than ten years.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeahs conference. Yeah, but isn't the New Jersey guys who
have been to ten emerging one? Yeah? Yeah, you get
something new, something fresh. And that's the thing I would
never have picked to talk about Confederate naval activity in
San Francisco like Neil Shadowland did. That was true, It
(19:02):
was great. Yeah, and he's also he said, he told me.
He goes, Oh, I picked my spot, and so what
do you mean? He goes, Well, first off, I get
to do that. Chris Mnkowski picked everybody else spot, but
I got to pick mine. I knew that I would
be funnier than you and have a much better topic
than you.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Well, not to make you sure if you don't want to,
but you do want to tell the nice folks what
you spoke about this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So you really are hijacking this week. Yeah, go ahead,
You're going to force me to talk about myself. I
don't like that. So some listeners have already heard our
episode on the Canal Street Coup of eighteen seventy four.
That episode was really my dry run for the topic
I presented today, which was the Canal Street co eighteen
(19:48):
seventy four talk about the Battle of Liberty Place and
reconstruction in Louisiana, which is very much out of the
normal kind of seven day a week domain for emerging
civil war to jump into reconstruction like that, But it
was interesting that we got to start Saturday with new
orons and end Saturday with new orons from two very
(20:10):
different perspectives about military aspects and then one completely.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Not military ass and with a lot of the same players. Yes,
so it's a different story and different period, but a
lot of the same players that were discussed we have
a lot of this weekend. Good Old Benjamin Butler pops
up a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
John T. Monroe, mayor of the city. He cropped up
a couple of times. But that is the one thing
that I liked last year. It's why I came back
this year is there's so many different there's so many
different ways to look at the exact same issue that
if I wanted to talk about, you know, Confederate uniforms
(20:52):
and get into material culture, and somebody else wanted to
talk about the process of manufacturing during those uniforms and industry,
they could We could present the same topic two vastly
different perspectives on what to talk about.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Well, uh, I have nothing to add, you have nothing
to add, of course. Let me let me just issue
a caveat here. We we have indulged in pizza. That's pizza, yeah,
and that pizza is sitting heavily in.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's food heavy weekend. There's been a series of late
evenings that has been done to emerging civil war. Everybody.
We come here to eat. We come here to eat
and uh and talk and talk civil war. And two,
there's there's great books that are on offer, oh yeah,
more than you can.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Enough Boeing tables and books that you and the authors
are sitting behind them, which is such a rare opportunity.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And then too to have somebody like Chris Mkowski just there,
just there, and and it's like you said, there's no hierarchy,
there's no bowing down to him, and even.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
He's willfully sharing the spotlight and yet does not want
to be in the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, you can go to Chris, say hey, I had
a question about something I saw on the way here.
You can tell me. Because Chris knows basically everything there
is to know about Spotsilvania Courthouse helps any lose here.
Also wrote I think the best book on it. And
I'm not just saying that because it's new, and I'm
not just saying that because he's my friend. I'm not
just saying that because the editor for w who are
(22:28):
But there is something to be said about the familiarity
that he has with the place that you know, you
mentioned something to him, and it's like you can watch
him roll back in the head and then that FI
forward comes to the answer, dude lives on the battlefield.
And that's the case I think with everybody here is
that people know your niche, they know who you are,
which your background is, whatever. It was fun having two
(22:50):
Franklin people in the same room at the same time,
and then two also. I think it's fair to just
go ahead and throw in like congratulations Saric Jacobson receiving
a Preservation Awards. That was super fun to introduce him
and to kind of get to go down memory lane
with my old boss. But they're to have that level
(23:10):
of knowledge between him and Chris and Neil and all
the various voices within this community, and to get people
that walk up and say, you know, I'd never I
never considered it from that perspective before. That's amazing And
you can change some people's minds, right. We can talk
about a difficult thing like reconstruction in Louisiana and there
(23:32):
are people that walked up after the talk and they said,
you know, that's fantastic, I'd never considered that before. There's
also the people that I'll say, I really didn't care
when he started talking and I still don't care now,
and you know what, you can't change his mind.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
No, But they're here to listen and to try. Yeah,
and not everyone's talk is going to get to everybody.
That's the nature of this kind of history.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
But they're here. Yeah, And if it's not interesting to you,
it might be interested too the other five people at
your table. So it's just kind of incumbent on you
to just play along. Well.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think the free form nature of what goes on
in emerging civil war makes it distinctly different from say
a university, a history department within a university, where everybody
is like Jefferson's academic community.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You're living there with your instructors.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Everybody is getting feedback and input from one source. The
historians that were here over the weekend, they live all
over the country.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Are all different experience levels, and that is different walks
of life, different backgrounds, different you know, different day to
day life.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, And I think that is what makes the material
here fresh, is from that perspective, absolutely, And.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
It's such a wonderfully self encouraging and reinforcing community that
you don't always see in an academic sphere of academics.
Perhaps laying claws into each.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Other over writing for academics about other academics.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
These, every one of these was not just meant to
be presented to the other presenters, right, But you see
at a lot of conferences, and it was meant to
be persented to the other one hundred and fifty people
in that room. Yeah, and needed to keep them for
at least an hour entertained and engaged.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, which is the other great thing about emerging civil wars.
And they can guarantee you a room full of listeners,
whereas some places you go, you know, you expect they
give you an auditorium room to speak in and there
are six people there who showed up for your talk
that you flew or you drove, and you put in
time and the effort and the research hours. You sat
(25:40):
on Canada until way too early in the morning, making
your sides, and all of a sudden you have to
talk to six people, and that's a humbling moment. Or
you can come to a place like this and you
have one hundred and fifty people who fill the seats
and paid money to be here, who are excited to
be and they want to be, and that's a humbling
(26:01):
moment too in a different way.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, because you just feel so fortunate to either be
a presenter or to be one of the fortunately fortunate
of people that are in the audience getting to hear
this great stuff. The thing I'm sorry to want to
now is ECW serving as a model for other fields
of history. Not you know, this is all Civil war intensive,
but for other things. Are there other organizations like ECW
(26:26):
that are enabling the newer and younger voices than other fields?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, I know in just within this model and
kind of entity, there is the American revolution aspect of it. Yeah,
amer American Revolutionary War, which I don't think you can't
catch me there because you know, I'm a bit of
a well lest I'll be very honest, they don't want
to hear from me again. But I think I think
(26:50):
in the World War two community there is this kind
of growing movement. Unfortunately for us in the US it's
harder to get to. But in the UK there's that
We have ways of making you talk podcast. They have
a world we have Ways Fest and it's an entire
weekend of talks and they call it war waffling. Right,
you just sit around and talk about the war. There's
(27:12):
hardware on display, there's aircraft, there's demonstrations, there's music, there's food,
like they make a whole weekend out of it. In
this kind of relaxed atmosphere. But you're hearing from emerging
voices in the arsenal tent and then some of the
most respected scholars in the field on the main stage,
(27:33):
and you have to argue with yourself, like, God, do
I want to hear this really great talk about the
psychoanalysis of RIF pilots and lack of moral fiber, or
do I want to go listen to Peter Kattock Adams
talk about monic casino Jesus Christ to make this decision
for me, right right, There's that kind of environment here
in the in the ECW world. It's like, God, if
(27:55):
I listen to every talk on Saturday, I'm not going
to have it in me to listen listen to this
talk at two o'clock in the afternoon. Let me let
me just go, I'm gonna have to have the FOMO thing.
Let me go take an alf I'm gonna come back
for two forty five to listen to this talk. Or
let me get a later start in the morning. I'll
miss the first talk. I'll come in the afternoon and
finish the rest. There is that kind of enthusiasm about it.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
There is I think one of the really neat things
coming in fresh this year as a brand new perspective
to this, other than coming in setting up a booth
and disappearing as I've done in the past and going
to sweat and going to dig hole somewhere, it is
the consistency of the crowd size.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Even if it's a new person who's never spoken here before, yeah,
whose name is not known, the crowd doesn't empty out.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And go back to their room, right. They're there.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
They're locked in that they are ready to go and
they want to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
They wanted to hear the pride of Ponchatula.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't know. I don't know about that one, but
they definitely came for everyone before and after and two.
And I guess as we kind of close up this
discussion is when you leave an event like this, I
know this is the case for me. Like last year,
I left thinking the same thing. There's like this, Okay,
(29:13):
the kids are gonna be all right type of feeling
like like if you ever have concerns about the Civil
War field and interest in it. Yes, the crowds are older,
but you know what, here's the thing is like younger
people were getting older every day and and that level
of like okay, well we're not ready to retire and
(29:35):
be there, but that day comes eventually for everyone. I
think maybe Chris got on it best today is like,
look around you, look at the young people in the room.
Eric Jacobson, I have no hit on this. When he
said if you're walking around saying that young people don't
care about history, you're just wrong. That was pretty good
Eric impression. I will say. I mean you basically live
(29:57):
with a guy for three years, you can you can
do that pretty drop of the hat. But there is
there's life in the Civil War field, and it might
not always look the same, it might not always sound
the same, and we're not going to talk about the
same issues. This is the one refreshing thing about a
topic and a theme, like Chris gave us for this
(30:19):
isn't it? There was no well what if Stonewall Jackson?
Was it Kittysburg And the words of the great Chris White,
he was smelled really bad.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Well, yeah, you know, every pond needs its sad poles,
and we have that right here at ECW.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Well, I think it's it's important to us to look
at who were the ones presenting. The average age of
the presenters was pretty young. Well visually maybe.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
But it was. It was a younger group presenting.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
And that's the whole idea behind Emerging Civil Wars. Folks
starting out, Folks excited folks leading the conversations that are
happening and need to happen, and I think the crowd
will follow. And I think your dedicated history audience is
always going to be your dedicated history audience. But the
more topics that are not your traditional left flank third
(31:17):
core walked by here on wheel, You're going to bring
in folks who want to have those conversations. And I
think that is the important work that Emerging Civil War
is doing.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
And so what is our message to the listeners of
this great podcast. That is, if you're interested in attending
something like this, get on the website, get your tickets
for next year. They will go fast, and we guarantee
a good time will be had by all.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It does sell out, it does. It's amazing is that
it sells out. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think
I can remember a time in recent memory where they
haven't had a sellout crowd to be here. Yeah, but
that's I mean, I feel like we've kind of gotten
to the point now where Chris, I'm gonna give you
(32:04):
a second to just talk about your move into trails. Sure, yea,
and your your elevation to the most high, most exalted position.
But then to tell us, you know, what's the most
recent sign project you've been on, and what what are
the people who listen to this, who get two minutes
of me talking about the greatness of Civil War Trails.
(32:26):
By the way, this show has sponsored to you by
Civil War Trails, the world's artist out to our museum
body placement. We are good at paid subscription. Okay, we
got this part. What are the people that are listening
to this? What can they do? How can they get involved?
I any learn more?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
So, Chris, go no, I really appreciate that. So Civil
War Trails is an organization that could start in the nineties.
Much like the room that we're in this evening, it
was a group of historians sitting around drinking and the
whole idea was to mark the retreat from Petersburg mathematics.
Twelve sites was the whole plan, and we're now well
(33:04):
north to fifteen hundred. So Civil War Trails itself is
a living, breathing program. The whole idea that sets us
apart from other initiatives that put signs in about where
you're standing is we're meant to adapt, We're meant to grow.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And I mean that not just in adding more.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Signs, which is happening at an alarming rate, quite frankly,
but it's also to change with interpretation. That's the whole
design is to grow, change with interpretation, and quite frankly,
court you guys, court the folks who are interested in
that story, who want to learn new stories, learn more
personal stories.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
One of the more.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Exciting things we're doing right now is telling stories of
pacifists and conscientious objectors in the Shanandoah Valley, stories we've
never told before. We told one, and every community came
out of the woodwork with their story largely similar, and
they're all unique. They all have their own flavor. And
you know what I guarantee, if you've been to every
(34:00):
battlefield in the Schandeau Valley, you don't know George Rye's
story because you haven't been there, We haven't told yet,
no one's told it yet, but we're being trusted and
asked to tell those stories. So I'll say for listeners
to the podcast, as you travel around the countryside and
you see that bugle and you follow it, the best
thing you can do is let us know.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
If a that sign is.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Boring, Please please write into the website and let me
know that sign was boring. If the sign's damaged, let
me know. There's only and this is kind of behind
the curtain peak, for all fifteen hundred sites across two
hundred and twenty thousand square miles, there are only three
of us full time involved with the program. To say
we're stretched then is an understatement. So if you see
(34:43):
something broken, if you see something that you think just
needs an upgrade, needs a hook to get you to
be excited about that story, right on into our website
Civil Wartrails dot org and let us know. But otherwise,
if you've got really neat ideas, if you are just
passionate about something you saw and want let us know.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
We'd love to hear it.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Our partners who sustained those signs of year to year
love hearing that you were there and you loved.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
What you saw.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
So Civil War Trails is very grateful to have this
opportunity I as company can say to talk to you
all this evening, but thank you for listening to this podcast,
supporting our good friends here at Homebrew History. And as
you travel around, we hope you take a stop next
time you see that blue bugle and the word, the
(35:29):
words Civil.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
War Trails, and you could end up like one of the.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Pair of sisters that presented themselves at the table today
and they stood in front of Chris. One woman lives
in Wisconsin, the other in the Illinois and when they
come into this area and they are in the footprint
of Civil War trails, they gushed to Chris about it.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
They did.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It was It was so joyful to see these two
wonderful women say, every time we see a directional sign
with that with that bugle, it's like our car automatically
goes left, right or whichever way it was. And they
just they were so crazy about Civil Wars trails, and uh,
it was just a great That was almost the highlight
of my weekend is to watch Chris get that kind
(36:13):
of approval and for these ladies to have been so
happy about that product.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
It's really part of their life. Now. I have to
say I miss living around trails because it'd just become
like a fixture of my commute. Was like out there,
it's the trailblazer, and all right, now I'm passing the
signs in Thompson Station, and now I'm in a state
that doesn't have a trails program. They could wink wink.
Speaker 8 (36:42):
I would love to if it wasn't eight thousand miles away,
it wasn't an eighteen hour drive to the state line
from Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
But you know it, it almost feels like it's rarity, right,
It's this special opportunity when you're in Virginia, you're in Tennessee.
You get to start up and see these things. So
I was seeing trailblazers all down I ninety five as
I sat there for two hours on Friday. Well, look
at these side. I wonder what's over there that's going
(37:14):
to take thirty three minutes to get across the Rappahannock
to see. Yes, I don't even think it took the
Federal Army. It didn't take Burnside thirty Yeah. Yeah, you know,
the mud marks was nothing compared to what you had
to endure. That was something that was that was certainly
something There is something special about having the opportunity to
be able to participate on our side as as a
(37:37):
partner with you guys, and and you know the that
you that you trust us to convey your message. It's
really just something that Bow and I have never taken
for granted, is that we enjoy the partnership. We enjoyed
working with you, We enjoyed working with Drew, and we
hope that that continues.
Speaker 8 (37:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
But the great thing about what you do is you
follow the mission of what Homeber Issue was set out
to do, which is to make these topics approachable and
make them accessible, so accessible that the only thing you
need is to be able to see the side. And
it's the unique thing of we don't go out hunting
(38:20):
for stories. The stories come to you. They come to us.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
It's grassroots grown, and every community those signs are in
members of that community wrote that sign, at least the
initial draft. The most tortuous thing I do every day
is tell a local history. And you have two hundred
and seventy five words. They hate me for that, but
this is going to take eighteen signs and boy howdy,
(38:43):
sometimes they try.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
It is.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
It's the thing I hope comes across to travelers as
they see these signs is they will all sound and
look and feel the same, but they're the story of
the place they're in, and they're the story of someone
who is there that day, who had an experience that
we hope to try to convey to you in the
best way that we can.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, and we've said it a million times. There's something
about being in the place where something happened, you know.
It's the power of the place. It's walking the grounds,
all that stuff, but trails makes that possible. Frostener, So
this is like a heartfelt thank you for doing the
work that you do and getting to do that work
with you for the last several years is just one
(39:27):
of the highlights, right Richard. No, you've not been on
the show before, Chris, you've only listened to the show.
So it's time. This is inaugural for you. Yes to
the show. Well, you've never been on the show. This
is this is rarefied air for us to have two
T virgin listeners and whatever. We got a little segment
(39:51):
on this show and I'm gonna do it because Bo
isn't here boo hicky history where you just you found something.
Maybe we heard something this weekend. We're like, oh my god,
he's so right. I you know, that is a myth
that I'd always been told, and I'm so glad it died.
I'm so glad that that that Bert Dunkerly killed it
(40:13):
on Friday night. I'm so glad that Dave Powell took
that myth and kicked it in the teeth. Or that
Chris Mkowski murdered this myth, or that Neil Chadlaine proved
in fact once and for all that there was a
civil war west of Texas.
Speaker 9 (40:27):
Like right, or that the jury he got up there
and said that, in fact, the ku klukx fan didn't
start out as like a bunch of cool guys who
were just kind of hanging out and then they became
more militant.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Like, you're really glad that you heard that thing. What
was the myth this weekend that you were like, Oh god,
I'm so glad that got busted. Or is there a
myth that you wish to bust right now? For me,
if it was the Disappointment spot, this is great. You
(41:00):
can see the sweat there's you could hear him sweat.
Speaker 6 (41:06):
It was for me the.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
The myth that.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
What I thought on the buffet was fried cauliflower was
actually popcorn chicken that I opted not to take, and.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
So disappointing. I knew Richard Lewis was going to talk
about food A man I used to.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Go with it and everything, and it just I just
didn't get it. Sorry, Well, I mean and one proven
in our time. Well I'll try. I'll try everything next year.
Born experienced and killed right here in and out. So
about you.
Speaker 5 (41:55):
I think I really enjoyed Neil's conversation about the West
Coast and the.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Wildness of the gold.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
Was the export operation by the US government?
Speaker 1 (42:07):
And was that some new information or what?
Speaker 7 (42:09):
Right?
Speaker 5 (42:10):
It's nothing about the West Coast in the Civil War,
I mean aside from like, yeah, they set up some
cannons and like blew up a couple of lighthouses by
finer cannon too close to them and all that fun stuff.
But it was the thing of no, the US government
board resources into defending the gold trade on the West
Coast from piracy, a thing I have never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I had been in this industry for a minute.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Just that that was one of the ones that's really
while to me of you know, the West coast is
not this forgotten land that kind of sent some guys east.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, that that was for me one of the more
interesting things of the weekend. Also, the thing I took
away from Neil's talk was that no matter how much
you try and say like, oh well no, you know,
the Confederacy actually may have had a chance the war
if this would have gone well whatever, just look at
how they administered the navy, Confederate Navy at some point
(43:03):
we haven't talked right, right, how do you have an
admiral when you have two ships? You know, this doesn't
make any sense.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
It being the admiral of your bathtub toys.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
But like to hear how this Confederate Navy authorized operation
is undertaken. But man who then advertises when he intends
to leave the.
Speaker 11 (43:27):
Port on tiggle Horn to carry out piracy and not
expect that anyone anyhow would go Actually, I feel like
that is inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
We're going problem with that is an issue.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
That's just incredible. So I enjoy I really enjoyed that.
I also have to say, I I really like important
to talk. Evan's been on the show. I like Evan's
talk about the New York Draft Riots because well, it
wasn't necessarily like a bunker busting bou hicky myth thing.
It's just something that like outside of gangs of New York,
and there's so many moving pieces to that it handled
(44:08):
them all. So yes, yes, I think, yeah, he nailed that. Yeah,
so I thought I thought that was mine. That was mine.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I don't know if there was any kind of myth
busting that I really hung on to, but it was
more new information about things that either you know, I
personally had misconstrued. It wasn't like it was handed to
me all screwed up. I had screwed it up myself,
but just new information about new things that you know.
I've been a Civil War book probably sixty five of
(44:39):
my seventy years, and there's stuff in there that was
fed to me back in the nineteen sixties that ain't so.
But I really in your talk, you're talking about all
people James Longstreet popping up in New Orleans leading the
troops there.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I was having a discussion with a park ranger.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
This this past week about the very thing Longstreet pops
up all over the place, and post civil wars everywhere. Yeah,
there is a mass apparently the Where's Waldo of Civil Wars? Yeah,
he absolutely is. And he changes his his facial whiskers
about every year to something bizarre and different. But you
know he's even here in the eighteen eighties and in
(45:18):
Virginia there's a massive train wreck of a passenger train
in Orange County. Bridge collapses, a bunch of people are killed.
You know he's on that train, James Lord Street. Yeah,
he's like a bad opinion.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
He is in the back corner of the nineteenth century.
Is a weird time for him?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah yeah, Now, I will say as it goes to
his various facial hair that picture I pulled today, Yeah,
just I kind of like the just the go to.
That was a good move pro no fu Manchu. Yeah, yeah,
power move, James long Street. Power move. Also power moved
by commanding an integrated police force in the eighteen sixty seventies. Like,
that's the progressive of your craft. I don't know why
(45:57):
I had to say that for saying something.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
That's what I.
Speaker 5 (46:02):
All.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
That occurs about a block from where A little bit
later on PGT Boreguard and Jubile Early will walk man
fleet to the big spinning wheel and spin the wheel
on the Louisiana Lottery.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, you know it happens, that happens in that same
sector of town.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
And to see what became of some of these very
very prominent Confederate generals after the wars, just to try
to make a living.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, you know, is getting up there and going all right,
here goes the wheel, folks. But it was one of
the things that we talked about in my talk and
then a little bit in Shawn's talk this morning. Is
all people, right, and when Albert Sidney Johnston's remains are
removed from New Orleans and brod to Texas, you get
four out of the five commanders of the army in
(46:43):
Tennessee to show up and be present. You've got John Dollhood,
you got Braxton Bragg, you have PGD. Boureguard, Albertiney Johnson
is there. Who's the guy is missing Joe Johnson because
he hated everybody. Everybody hated him. But there's this the
(47:03):
post war world for them is just so fascinated.
Speaker 5 (47:08):
Really, you've been at such a fever pitch to one end.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, man, it's gone, it's gone. You have to figure
out what to do next. And for some people you
could do it.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
And yeah, and post war, for some of the better
known Confederate generals, there is poverty because when you have
been a soldier all your life and you have been
on the losing team and suddenly it's eighteen sixty five
and a half and you're looking for work, what do
you do whatever, you're going to be a soldier again?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah? What you can tire names Egypt unless you're William
Waring and decide.
Speaker 8 (47:39):
You know, the Shaw really is speaking to me until
you get canned because you're actually not that good enough.
William Louring not good at his job.
Speaker 5 (47:51):
I hate to disturb the listeners by saying that you don't.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Want you don't want to be the William the anti
William Louring.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Guy in the room.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
But like, there are reasons. There's a reason he only
commented division. So this has been super fun. There's one
other segment though, What is in your cup this evening?
Speaker 5 (48:15):
On my end is the Heartywood Richmond Lagger, which is
always a Central Virginia's table because they make hundreds of
millions of gallons of this idea, But describe, describe that
beer describe this beer. Let's see hold on, oh dear,
incredibly light, which is what you want on a August
Virginia and the swamps of Central Virginia.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Delightful Richard Cherry coke. Cherry coke courtesy of mister Chris Brown.
Now you were you were mixing it up in here
last night with your drink. Uh.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
My brother in law makes a drink that he calls
boat drink. He's a paddler, and it's just simply fruit juice.
In this case, it was orange and pineapple juice with myers. No, no, well,
it's coconut rub whatever it is malvo and we have
a refrigerator here in the cabin that I think it's
(49:10):
set at thirty two point one. The most about playing
the oldest drink I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
They're pretty darn good. And I'm going to finish this
off here with the non alcoholic level of choice here
the cool mocks original Kraft mocktail, mock g and T.
It's non GMO, caffeine free, no artific was wheteners. It's
gluten free, and it contains nothing but natural flavors and
(49:41):
has no taste whatsoever. It actually tastes really great. I
got to thing, it's really good. What we had the
peach something that. Yeah, I'm looking for these when I
get back home. This is a kind of a fizzy drink. Yeah,
it's CURRENTD Yeah it sounds nice. It's great. It's really refreshing.
It's definitely one of those where like if you're already
(50:02):
drinking a lot of water anyways throughout the day, and
you're gonna go mow.
Speaker 12 (50:05):
The lawn, yeah, like finish off with this, like, go
well with the chocolate rice cakes. You know, I'm getting
like the scent of the chocolate rice cakes while I'm
eating it. It's not as great as you would think. No,
but these do smell like cocoa rice crispies.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
That's the smell I've been getting. Yeah, that's awesome. That
is my favorite part of this. That's I just unlocked
a level of nostalgia and deliciousness for a lot of
listeners and present Yeah, so humbrew listeners. You can find
more about Civil War trails. You know where to find
(50:42):
the link because we put it in every show description ever.
Chris silently gave me a thumbs up. Thank you for that.
If you want to learn more about Emerging Civil War.
Visit Emerging Civil War's website and you can learn more
about the symposium. You can see next year's theme. You
can buy your tickets for next year already. It's pretty
(51:03):
great that they're already year out and within two or
three weeks of the previous symposium they're ready to launch
for the next one and then two you know, you
can follow the theme, follow the speakers, and you can
always follow and like a subscribe to home or History
Podcast because we look forward to seeing you and hearing
(51:25):
from you next time. But until then, I have a
plan to catch at like five in the morning, and
it is at night. Yeah, so we're going to take
this one right off to the credits. Thanks for listening,
and we'll catch you next time. I thought you'd take
it up Homebrew History, Whole.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Crew, That whole Crew talking about whole grew and reminding
the total crew, the history pot past, going.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Back to the past with the ritless past.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Get bite, give you a gas.
Speaker 10 (52:23):
Are you biting inspired?
Speaker 13 (52:26):
But you'll never get tired of Whole Crew, That Whole
Crew talk scholars on the show with Joey Boo, That
Whole Crew, Whole Crew,
Talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Everybody.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Welcome back to humber History. It is Joey Alsolo no bo.
I am out on a little adventure in the wilds
of Virginia for the Emerging Civil War Symposium, which I'm
really glad to have been invited back, and I'm really
glad to spend a weekend with some of the great
emerging voices in the Civil War field. And I'm even
(00:51):
more delighted to share sleeping quarters with two of the
finest voices in the Civil War field and our sponsor
for our show. So I'm saying this with a gun
to my head and a money bag sitting on the floor.
Chris Brown, executive director of Civil War Trails, is here,
as is our good friend Richard Lewis. Not to be
confused with the comedian. I'm funnier. He is funnier, and
(01:14):
he's also alive.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, which Mark, that's hilarity.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I still have a pulse and he doesn't. But that's
how you're saving in my phone. Did you know that? No,
Richard Lewis company, not the comedian. Oh brackets still alive. Yeah,
And that came really from Catherine. She was like, his
name is Richard Lewis and said, yeah, she was for
guy who loves Curby enthusiasm as much as you do.
How is it having a friend who's also named Richard
(01:47):
Lewis while also idolizing a man whose friend is named
Richard Lewis. It could have been worse.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I knew an old gentleman out in the Shenandoa Valley
whose name was Ronald McDonald. Can you imagine him looking
at a television screen in nineteen sixty two and going.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Oh no, as someone who shares a name with a
very problematic rapper, identify who has not become popular until
I was in high school.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
It was a very rough time. I think what I'm
gonna do is when it changed the name in your
contact too, is mean Chris Brown, not the problematic rapper.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
I'm without the allegations.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So, deary listener, this is what the whole weekend really
has been. Is this? And Bert Tunkerly around one am
saying he takes the big thumbs up. So so I mean,
why are we here? What's the big draw? I mean?
And we can? I think the three of us can
probably talk about this for a little while. Why do
you come to emerging the Civil War? And Chris you
(02:52):
can't say to get people to buy more signs like that.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
No, this weekend, bro Sure Distribution was playing for the weekend.
But I will say, as someone who's been with Civil
War Trails for almost a decade now, but it's new
and the role that I'm in getting to get out
of the business administration and infrastructural planning of the job
(03:17):
of running a nonprofit and get back in front of
the people who are excited to pull over and distract
their entire road trips to make sure that it's not
but the freshest Civil War Trails site. To be around
people who are passionate about what the business and nonprofits
is every day and want to learn the new evolving
civil war history. I think there's nothing quite like that.
(03:39):
And I will say this is my first ECW.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, last year when you were here, it was hey, Chris,
come set up and then promptly go put in more
signs and please go sweat some more over here somewhere else.
Speaker 5 (03:52):
So it's been an adventure. That's my first go round.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, And okay, so you're saying it's first time thoughts.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
I think it is remarkable to watch a younger generation
and by younger that is, relative to the Civil World War.
To watch a younger generation come in and be steering
in the conversation, I think that is one of the
cooler things. I think that's one of the things that
ECW does so well.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And Richard, you've been in the Civil war world, Yeah,
you know, and I don't think become similar backgrounds different times.
But there's nothing like emerging Civil War really anywhere else
in the country.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
I see it as a passing of the baton from
one generation of Civil War historians to a new generation
which is more diverse than the old generation was, and
which has a new outlook, a new perspective, all things
that are sorely needed in a field that can become very,
very old and covered in cobwebs.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Detail oriented, detailed w because the awesome way to put that.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
But Dale, Yeah, but I'll say this for personally, and
I will be seventy years old in two months, and
I have been to symposia, oh my god, since my twenties,
and honest to goodness, I come to this mostly to
socialize and to see old friends and hang out and
(05:25):
to be somebody because I am loosely tied to Civil
War trails, so I can sit back in the back
of the room with the glitterati and not upfront with
the great unwashed masses. No, I'm not gonna go there,
but it does put us closer to the.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
The fay table. It's always yeah. Yeah. I saw you
make the the over the shoulder and look at Chris
and I to get in line, which I understood, and
you took a man. Well, it wasn't so much time.
It was just is it our turn? And then I
realized rules, Yeah, when you're sitting by the it, you
do what you want. Well, that looks it.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Was like Ted Turner in the movie Gettsburg, Come on by.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And I heard that, yeah, to take bullet to the
chest and keeel over. So we've we spent all weekend, Friday,
all of today, and we stayed up a little too
late last night admittedly, but I think we got a
chance to absorb some really great topics. And like you said,
(06:28):
a younger crowd, I think when Evan Portman and Tyler
McGraw walk into a room, the mean average age of
the entire room drops by thirty years easily. Yes, So
it's really interesting to hear people that say things like oh,
young people don't care about history, they're so stupid or whatever.
And then you look around that room and all of
(06:50):
the people who presented today being under the age of fifty,
they've won yep.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
And taken seriously at the same shot. Right, So there
is the conversation of you know, this is an older rooms,
as you know symposia can be. But not a one
of those presenters did not A have their research on
lock and or b was not taking seriously because of
their age, which can be a problem in other circles.
(07:19):
I think it is very telling that emerging Civil War
courts and supports folks starting out, because there's nothing else
that does that, I don't think in the way that
emerging Civil war does and has been such an encouragement
to so many people.
Speaker 6 (07:34):
Well, you know, the the the availability for people of
a younger age who need the experience of researching and
presenting a paper in front of a live audience, and
of a live audience that is.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Not necessarily college age.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
This is about the only the only resource I can
imagine that is out there for that for that group.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
And an interesting split of an audience who content wise
is interested and will be sympathetic to a point, but
will also challenge your research in a way that folks
who have only done in a collider setting don't get,
because the people in this room have read more books
on more niche subjects than anyone else, Like Canine putting
(08:20):
a room together.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I mean, we were having a conversation at Strange Ways, which,
by the way, Homber History Listeners is a brewery here
in Virginia. And if I had bo we'd still be there.
There are three of them. He'd still be sampling. Yeah,
he wouldn't even have gotten his first drink. He'd still
be sampling the variety of choices. Yeah, light number three.
(08:43):
But when we were sitting there talking with Kevin Donovan,
he's quoting an obscure book and referencing a mistake that
was in it and then giving the factual basis and
showing where that author got their mistaken source material from
(09:04):
from memory, from memory, which is amazing.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
And those conversations were also happening all around us.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, that's not isolated, that's not a one off. Yeah.
I mean when you listen to Ted Savas talk about
George Rain's in the City of Augusta and what it
has to do with gunpowder and saltpeter production as much
as you'd want to know, more than you want to know.
If you ever had a question, you didn't, but if
you did, he's got you. It was answered. That level
(09:36):
of detail, that level of understanding is I think it's
almost commonplace in that baseline. Yeah it is. Yeah, I
leave these I feel an incredible amount of imposter syndrome
when I leave these things. It's like we're saying, they
let me get up there and give a talk with
my with myne No, I ain't get any of their talk.
(09:59):
And then did you realize is that nobody's out to
get you? Nobody's out I gotcha? You know that just
doesn't happen here the way that it does in some
other places.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
And the Q and A sessions are often Okay, I've
got a connection that I think works with this, right?
Does this go with what you're talking about? And it's
a great constructive feedback loop where with folks who aren't
as in the know, it meant probably wouldn't be well.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
You know, emergencivil War. You see it the year after
year there is a broad theme topic. This year it
was cities in the Civil War.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Within that I felt like the subject matter from every
one of the presenters was wonderfully curated as if they
had been given those assignments by Christmas Kowski.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
You know, we want you to cover this.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah, each topic was about a different city, but each
topic was also within that that subject covered a different
look at whatever it was. I just thought that was
wonderful to listen to, and it kept the audience. Thought
that the audience was engaged throughout.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
To the other great thing about and you kind of
hinted at it's like the networking. There's different civil war
and education entities here. You know, there's people who work
for the American Battlefield Trust. There's people who are their
full time is emerging civil War. There's Civil War Trails,
Central Virginia Battlefield Trust is here. You know, like there's
(11:32):
all these different groups. So sometimes what happens, especially in
those kind of academic circles or even in the public
history field, is we know, we're really the voice for
civil war educator, We're now we're the voice for civil
and then everybody all of a sudden it's Spartacus, right,
(11:53):
So I felt to today and in years asset that
just kind of doesn't fly here.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Well, and you know, what is absent here at Emerging
Civil War is any sense of hierarchy. There is no
lofty academic to whom you must bow down. There's no
historian that's been out in the field for forty to
fifty years who you have to cowtow to, and all
this stuff. People are on a level plane here, level
(12:20):
playing surface, and there's a lot of respect I think
between the speakers and the staff and the audience. You know,
everybody's accessible too.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
That's another thing I think that's part of the culture
of that Emerging Civil War is cultivated very purposefully, is
that it is a democratized effort and it doesn't give
to the you know, great historian on a throne he
must approach. It's no, you've done the research, you're the expert.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
And I think that is what makes this difference than
so many other conferences could be. And to your point,
the organizations aren't. We're all excited to be in this room,
to get in front of guests that maybe we don't
see every day.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I mean, for simple war trails.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
I can speak to that experience when I'm digging holes
or spraying paint or putting new panels in I don't
always see the eager reader who's excited to find new signs.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
But you know what, I saw him this weekend. Yeah,
and they came up and told you, I.
Speaker 5 (13:21):
Told you all about And I think it's the same
for a lot of your other like Central Virginia battlefields,
they're a little more public facing at times, but I
saw them get swarmed with fans and they were the
same people circulating through talking to everybody.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah. And what's great too, is like you have authors
who are here pushing their books. So if Dave Powell
was here ne Fadelaine, of course Neil's going to be here,
he has no choice. Yeah, But then Sean Chick is here,
He's pushing on his books, on his Shadow Map book.
Dave Powell's got every book that's ever been written ever
in the history of time, in the history of Dave
(13:56):
Powell writing books on his table, that table the leg
because on that thing, did you see how the table
was just kind of like the middle? And then two
we this is this is a great Civil Wars emposium
in that it has an international following. Now from the
acw UK roundtable to have Darren Rawlins come over and
(14:20):
not only being like the the Internet it guy for ECW,
but to then also bring his knowledge of British citizens
who took up arms and find the American Civil War
and then went back home to England and saw it
as you know, it's just simply their duty. Or Americans
who then relocated to England after the war and started
(14:43):
their own gar But did you share that knowledge. That's
an aspect of this that I just you can't get
anywhere else.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah, well, Chris, I think right now is the time
for you and me to commandeer this podcast and turn
the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Wait, no, no, we have to do actually, we have
to do a commercial break. Oh oh, sehi, that's tactic. Yeah, yeah,
commercial break, and then hopefully they'll forget whatever they're going
to say next. That's always the goal. So we'll be
right back. We're gonna do quick commercial and we'll catch
back up.
Speaker 7 (15:16):
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(15:39):
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Head on over to his shop where you can check
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(17:05):
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Speaker 1 (17:11):
And on YouTube.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
And if you're watching that YouTube channel, be sure to
like and subscribe. We'll be back after just a few
commercial messages.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And we're back. That was two minutes of me having
to listen to my own voice with other people in
the room, because normally want to do this. I'll start
the commercial and I'll just walk out the room for
two minutes, and then I come back when I hear
like and subscribe, by the way, like and subscribe, and
then I and then I come back, and I know,
(17:44):
all right, it's time to get serious and buckle down.
So you were about to hijack the podcast, I very
conveniently delayed my own fate.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, there were more than one hundred people today that
got to listen to your voice.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Not just you, but all of us did. And for
those need to know this.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Joe was topping the bill today after two days of
speech to five with some of the five young historians.
Who was the cleanup hitter, But Joe, But our friend
Joe did a great job, did a great job on
a subject that I guarantee most people in the room
had no clue about it.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I was glad to hear that. Guys.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
It is one of the great opportunities not only for
someone like you, but in general about the whole weekend,
is being able to do topics that are maybe non traditional.
I think, Joe, you picked a fantastic one that most
of the folks in that room probably never thought about,
even though some of the folks's been coming here for
more than ten years.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yeahs conference. Yeah, but isn't the New Jersey guys who
have been to ten emerging one? Yeah? Yeah, you get
something new, something fresh. And that's the thing I would
never have picked to talk about Confederate naval activity in
San Francisco like Neil Shadowland did. That was true, It
(19:02):
was great. Yeah, and he's also he said, he told me.
He goes, Oh, I picked my spot, and so what
do you mean? He goes, Well, first off, I get
to do that. Chris Mnkowski picked everybody else spot, but
I got to pick mine. I knew that I would
be funnier than you and have a much better topic
than you.
Speaker 5 (19:20):
Well, not to make you sure if you don't want to,
but you do want to tell the nice folks what
you spoke about this afternoon.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So you really are hijacking this week. Yeah, go ahead,
You're going to force me to talk about myself. I
don't like that. So some listeners have already heard our
episode on the Canal Street Coup of eighteen seventy four.
That episode was really my dry run for the topic
I presented today, which was the Canal Street co eighteen
(19:48):
seventy four talk about the Battle of Liberty Place and
reconstruction in Louisiana, which is very much out of the
normal kind of seven day a week domain for emerging
civil war to jump into reconstruction like that, But it
was interesting that we got to start Saturday with new
orons and end Saturday with new orons from two very
(20:10):
different perspectives about military aspects and then one completely.
Speaker 5 (20:15):
Not military ass and with a lot of the same players. Yes,
so it's a different story and different period, but a
lot of the same players that were discussed we have
a lot of this weekend. Good Old Benjamin Butler pops
up a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
John T. Monroe, mayor of the city. He cropped up
a couple of times. But that is the one thing
that I liked last year. It's why I came back
this year is there's so many different there's so many
different ways to look at the exact same issue that
if I wanted to talk about, you know, Confederate uniforms
(20:52):
and get into material culture, and somebody else wanted to
talk about the process of manufacturing during those uniforms and industry,
they could We could present the same topic two vastly
different perspectives on what to talk about.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
Well, uh, I have nothing to add, you have nothing
to add, of course. Let me let me just issue
a caveat here. We we have indulged in pizza. That's pizza, yeah,
and that pizza is sitting heavily in.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It's food heavy weekend. There's been a series of late
evenings that has been done to emerging civil war. Everybody.
We come here to eat. We come here to eat
and uh and talk and talk civil war. And two,
there's there's great books that are on offer, oh yeah,
more than you can.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
Enough Boeing tables and books that you and the authors
are sitting behind them, which is such a rare opportunity.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And then too to have somebody like Chris Mkowski just there,
just there, and and it's like you said, there's no hierarchy,
there's no bowing down to him, and even.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
He's willfully sharing the spotlight and yet does not want
to be in the spotlight.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, you can go to Chris, say hey, I had
a question about something I saw on the way here.
You can tell me. Because Chris knows basically everything there
is to know about Spotsilvania Courthouse helps any lose here.
Also wrote I think the best book on it. And
I'm not just saying that because it's new, and I'm
not just saying that because he's my friend. I'm not
just saying that because the editor for w who are
(22:28):
But there is something to be said about the familiarity
that he has with the place that you know, you
mentioned something to him, and it's like you can watch
him roll back in the head and then that FI
forward comes to the answer, dude lives on the battlefield.
And that's the case I think with everybody here is
that people know your niche, they know who you are,
which your background is, whatever. It was fun having two
(22:50):
Franklin people in the same room at the same time,
and then two also. I think it's fair to just
go ahead and throw in like congratulations Saric Jacobson receiving
a Preservation Awards. That was super fun to introduce him
and to kind of get to go down memory lane
with my old boss. But they're to have that level
(23:10):
of knowledge between him and Chris and Neil and all
the various voices within this community, and to get people
that walk up and say, you know, I'd never I
never considered it from that perspective before. That's amazing And
you can change some people's minds, right. We can talk
about a difficult thing like reconstruction in Louisiana and there
(23:32):
are people that walked up after the talk and they said,
you know, that's fantastic, I'd never considered that before. There's
also the people that I'll say, I really didn't care
when he started talking and I still don't care now,
and you know what, you can't change his mind.
Speaker 5 (23:47):
No, But they're here to listen and to try. Yeah,
and not everyone's talk is going to get to everybody.
That's the nature of this kind of history.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
But they're here. Yeah, And if it's not interesting to you,
it might be interested too the other five people at
your table. So it's just kind of incumbent on you
to just play along. Well.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think the free form nature of what goes on
in emerging civil war makes it distinctly different from say
a university, a history department within a university, where everybody
is like Jefferson's academic community.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
You're living there with your instructors.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Everybody is getting feedback and input from one source. The
historians that were here over the weekend, they live all
over the country.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Are all different experience levels, and that is different walks
of life, different backgrounds, different you know, different day to
day life.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah, And I think that is what makes the material
here fresh, is from that perspective, absolutely, And.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
It's such a wonderfully self encouraging and reinforcing community that
you don't always see in an academic sphere of academics.
Perhaps laying claws into each.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Other over writing for academics about other academics.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
These, every one of these was not just meant to
be presented to the other presenters, right, But you see
at a lot of conferences, and it was meant to
be persented to the other one hundred and fifty people
in that room. Yeah, and needed to keep them for
at least an hour entertained and engaged.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, which is the other great thing about emerging civil wars.
And they can guarantee you a room full of listeners,
whereas some places you go, you know, you expect they
give you an auditorium room to speak in and there
are six people there who showed up for your talk
that you flew or you drove, and you put in
time and the effort and the research hours. You sat
(25:40):
on Canada until way too early in the morning, making
your sides, and all of a sudden you have to
talk to six people, and that's a humbling moment. Or
you can come to a place like this and you
have one hundred and fifty people who fill the seats
and paid money to be here, who are excited to
be and they want to be, and that's a humbling
(26:01):
moment too in a different way.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, because you just feel so fortunate to either be
a presenter or to be one of the fortunately fortunate
of people that are in the audience getting to hear
this great stuff. The thing I'm sorry to want to
now is ECW serving as a model for other fields
of history. Not you know, this is all Civil war intensive,
but for other things. Are there other organizations like ECW
(26:26):
that are enabling the newer and younger voices than other fields?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, I know in just within this model and
kind of entity, there is the American revolution aspect of it. Yeah,
amer American Revolutionary War, which I don't think you can't
catch me there because you know, I'm a bit of
a well lest I'll be very honest, they don't want
to hear from me again. But I think I think
(26:50):
in the World War two community there is this kind
of growing movement. Unfortunately for us in the US it's
harder to get to. But in the UK there's that
We have ways of making you talk podcast. They have
a world we have Ways Fest and it's an entire
weekend of talks and they call it war waffling. Right,
you just sit around and talk about the war. There's
(27:12):
hardware on display, there's aircraft, there's demonstrations, there's music, there's food,
like they make a whole weekend out of it. In
this kind of relaxed atmosphere. But you're hearing from emerging
voices in the arsenal tent and then some of the
most respected scholars in the field on the main stage,
(27:33):
and you have to argue with yourself, like, God, do
I want to hear this really great talk about the
psychoanalysis of RIF pilots and lack of moral fiber, or
do I want to go listen to Peter Kattock Adams
talk about monic casino Jesus Christ to make this decision
for me, right right, There's that kind of environment here
in the in the ECW world. It's like, God, if
(27:55):
I listen to every talk on Saturday, I'm not going
to have it in me to listen listen to this
talk at two o'clock in the afternoon. Let me let
me just go, I'm gonna have to have the FOMO thing.
Let me go take an alf I'm gonna come back
for two forty five to listen to this talk. Or
let me get a later start in the morning. I'll
miss the first talk. I'll come in the afternoon and
finish the rest. There is that kind of enthusiasm about it.
Speaker 5 (28:19):
There is I think one of the really neat things
coming in fresh this year as a brand new perspective
to this, other than coming in setting up a booth
and disappearing as I've done in the past and going
to sweat and going to dig hole somewhere, it is
the consistency of the crowd size.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
Even if it's a new person who's never spoken here before, yeah,
whose name is not known, the crowd doesn't empty out.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And go back to their room, right. They're there.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
They're locked in that they are ready to go and
they want to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
They wanted to hear the pride of Ponchatula.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I don't know. I don't know about that one, but
they definitely came for everyone before and after and two.
And I guess as we kind of close up this
discussion is when you leave an event like this, I
know this is the case for me. Like last year,
I left thinking the same thing. There's like this, Okay,
(29:13):
the kids are gonna be all right type of feeling
like like if you ever have concerns about the Civil
War field and interest in it. Yes, the crowds are older,
but you know what, here's the thing is like younger
people were getting older every day and and that level
of like okay, well we're not ready to retire and
(29:35):
be there, but that day comes eventually for everyone. I
think maybe Chris got on it best today is like,
look around you, look at the young people in the room.
Eric Jacobson, I have no hit on this. When he
said if you're walking around saying that young people don't
care about history, you're just wrong. That was pretty good
Eric impression. I will say. I mean you basically live
(29:57):
with a guy for three years, you can you can
do that pretty drop of the hat. But there is
there's life in the Civil War field, and it might
not always look the same, it might not always sound
the same, and we're not going to talk about the
same issues. This is the one refreshing thing about a
topic and a theme, like Chris gave us for this
(30:19):
isn't it? There was no well what if Stonewall Jackson?
Was it Kittysburg And the words of the great Chris White,
he was smelled really bad.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Well, yeah, you know, every pond needs its sad poles,
and we have that right here at ECW.
Speaker 5 (30:37):
Well, I think it's it's important to us to look
at who were the ones presenting. The average age of
the presenters was pretty young. Well visually maybe.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
But it was. It was a younger group presenting.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
And that's the whole idea behind Emerging Civil Wars. Folks
starting out, Folks excited folks leading the conversations that are
happening and need to happen, and I think the crowd
will follow. And I think your dedicated history audience is
always going to be your dedicated history audience. But the
more topics that are not your traditional left flank third
(31:17):
core walked by here on wheel, You're going to bring
in folks who want to have those conversations. And I
think that is the important work that Emerging Civil War
is doing.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
And so what is our message to the listeners of
this great podcast. That is, if you're interested in attending
something like this, get on the website, get your tickets
for next year. They will go fast, and we guarantee
a good time will be had by all.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
It does sell out, it does. It's amazing is that
it sells out. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think
I can remember a time in recent memory where they
haven't had a sellout crowd to be here. Yeah, but
that's I mean, I feel like we've kind of gotten
to the point now where Chris, I'm gonna give you
(32:04):
a second to just talk about your move into trails. Sure, yea,
and your your elevation to the most high, most exalted position.
But then to tell us, you know, what's the most
recent sign project you've been on, and what what are
the people who listen to this, who get two minutes
of me talking about the greatness of Civil War Trails.
(32:26):
By the way, this show has sponsored to you by
Civil War Trails, the world's artist out to our museum
body placement. We are good at paid subscription. Okay, we
got this part. What are the people that are listening
to this? What can they do? How can they get involved?
I any learn more?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
So, Chris, go no, I really appreciate that. So Civil
War Trails is an organization that could start in the nineties.
Much like the room that we're in this evening, it
was a group of historians sitting around drinking and the
whole idea was to mark the retreat from Petersburg mathematics.
Twelve sites was the whole plan, and we're now well
(33:04):
north to fifteen hundred. So Civil War Trails itself is
a living, breathing program. The whole idea that sets us
apart from other initiatives that put signs in about where
you're standing is we're meant to adapt, We're meant to grow.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And I mean that not just in adding more.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Signs, which is happening at an alarming rate, quite frankly,
but it's also to change with interpretation. That's the whole
design is to grow, change with interpretation, and quite frankly,
court you guys, court the folks who are interested in
that story, who want to learn new stories, learn more
personal stories.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
One of the more.
Speaker 5 (33:40):
Exciting things we're doing right now is telling stories of
pacifists and conscientious objectors in the Shanandoah Valley, stories we've
never told before. We told one, and every community came
out of the woodwork with their story largely similar, and
they're all unique. They all have their own flavor. And
you know what I guarantee, if you've been to every
(34:00):
battlefield in the Schandeau Valley, you don't know George Rye's
story because you haven't been there, We haven't told yet,
no one's told it yet, but we're being trusted and
asked to tell those stories. So I'll say for listeners
to the podcast, as you travel around the countryside and
you see that bugle and you follow it, the best
thing you can do is let us know.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
If a that sign is.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Boring, Please please write into the website and let me
know that sign was boring. If the sign's damaged, let
me know. There's only and this is kind of behind
the curtain peak, for all fifteen hundred sites across two
hundred and twenty thousand square miles, there are only three
of us full time involved with the program. To say
we're stretched then is an understatement. So if you see
(34:43):
something broken, if you see something that you think just
needs an upgrade, needs a hook to get you to
be excited about that story, right on into our website
Civil Wartrails dot org and let us know. But otherwise,
if you've got really neat ideas, if you are just
passionate about something you saw and want let us know.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
We'd love to hear it.
Speaker 5 (35:02):
Our partners who sustained those signs of year to year
love hearing that you were there and you loved.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
What you saw.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
So Civil War Trails is very grateful to have this
opportunity I as company can say to talk to you
all this evening, but thank you for listening to this podcast,
supporting our good friends here at Homebrew History. And as
you travel around, we hope you take a stop next
time you see that blue bugle and the word, the
(35:29):
words Civil.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
War Trails, and you could end up like one of the.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Pair of sisters that presented themselves at the table today
and they stood in front of Chris. One woman lives
in Wisconsin, the other in the Illinois and when they
come into this area and they are in the footprint
of Civil War trails, they gushed to Chris about it.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
They did.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
It was It was so joyful to see these two
wonderful women say, every time we see a directional sign
with that with that bugle, it's like our car automatically
goes left, right or whichever way it was. And they
just they were so crazy about Civil Wars trails, and uh,
it was just a great That was almost the highlight
of my weekend is to watch Chris get that kind
(36:13):
of approval and for these ladies to have been so
happy about that product.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
It's really part of their life. Now. I have to
say I miss living around trails because it'd just become
like a fixture of my commute. Was like out there,
it's the trailblazer, and all right, now I'm passing the
signs in Thompson Station, and now I'm in a state
that doesn't have a trails program. They could wink wink.
Speaker 8 (36:42):
I would love to if it wasn't eight thousand miles away,
it wasn't an eighteen hour drive to the state line
from Yes.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
But you know it, it almost feels like it's rarity, right,
It's this special opportunity when you're in Virginia, you're in Tennessee.
You get to start up and see these things. So
I was seeing trailblazers all down I ninety five as
I sat there for two hours on Friday. Well, look
at these side. I wonder what's over there that's going
(37:14):
to take thirty three minutes to get across the Rappahannock
to see. Yes, I don't even think it took the
Federal Army. It didn't take Burnside thirty Yeah. Yeah, you know,
the mud marks was nothing compared to what you had
to endure. That was something that was that was certainly
something There is something special about having the opportunity to
be able to participate on our side as as a
(37:37):
partner with you guys, and and you know the that
you that you trust us to convey your message. It's
really just something that Bow and I have never taken
for granted, is that we enjoy the partnership. We enjoyed
working with you, We enjoyed working with Drew, and we
hope that that continues.
Speaker 8 (37:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
But the great thing about what you do is you
follow the mission of what Homeber Issue was set out
to do, which is to make these topics approachable and
make them accessible, so accessible that the only thing you
need is to be able to see the side. And
it's the unique thing of we don't go out hunting
(38:20):
for stories. The stories come to you. They come to us.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
It's grassroots grown, and every community those signs are in
members of that community wrote that sign, at least the
initial draft. The most tortuous thing I do every day
is tell a local history. And you have two hundred
and seventy five words. They hate me for that, but
this is going to take eighteen signs and boy howdy,
(38:43):
sometimes they try.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
It is.
Speaker 5 (38:47):
It's the thing I hope comes across to travelers as
they see these signs is they will all sound and
look and feel the same, but they're the story of
the place they're in, and they're the story of someone
who is there that day, who had an experience that
we hope to try to convey to you in the
best way that we can.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yeah, and we've said it a million times. There's something
about being in the place where something happened, you know.
It's the power of the place. It's walking the grounds,
all that stuff, but trails makes that possible. Frostener, So
this is like a heartfelt thank you for doing the
work that you do and getting to do that work
with you for the last several years is just one
(39:27):
of the highlights, right Richard. No, you've not been on
the show before, Chris, you've only listened to the show.
So it's time. This is inaugural for you. Yes to
the show. Well, you've never been on the show. This
is this is rarefied air for us to have two
T virgin listeners and whatever. We got a little segment
(39:51):
on this show and I'm gonna do it because Bo
isn't here boo hicky history where you just you found something.
Maybe we heard something this weekend. We're like, oh my god,
he's so right. I you know, that is a myth
that I'd always been told, and I'm so glad it died.
I'm so glad that that that Bert Dunkerly killed it
(40:13):
on Friday night. I'm so glad that Dave Powell took
that myth and kicked it in the teeth. Or that
Chris Mkowski murdered this myth, or that Neil Chadlaine proved
in fact once and for all that there was a
civil war west of Texas.
Speaker 9 (40:27):
Like right, or that the jury he got up there
and said that, in fact, the ku klukx fan didn't
start out as like a bunch of cool guys who
were just kind of hanging out and then they became
more militant.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Like, you're really glad that you heard that thing. What
was the myth this weekend that you were like, Oh god,
I'm so glad that got busted. Or is there a
myth that you wish to bust right now? For me,
if it was the Disappointment spot, this is great. You
(41:00):
can see the sweat there's you could hear him sweat.
Speaker 6 (41:06):
It was for me the.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
The myth that.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
What I thought on the buffet was fried cauliflower was
actually popcorn chicken that I opted not to take, and.
Speaker 10 (41:25):
So disappointing. I knew Richard Lewis was going to talk
about food A man I used to.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Go with it and everything, and it just I just
didn't get it. Sorry, Well, I mean and one proven
in our time. Well I'll try. I'll try everything next year.
Born experienced and killed right here in and out. So
about you.
Speaker 5 (41:55):
I think I really enjoyed Neil's conversation about the West
Coast and the.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Wildness of the gold.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
Was the export operation by the US government?
Speaker 1 (42:07):
And was that some new information or what?
Speaker 7 (42:09):
Right?
Speaker 5 (42:10):
It's nothing about the West Coast in the Civil War,
I mean aside from like, yeah, they set up some
cannons and like blew up a couple of lighthouses by
finer cannon too close to them and all that fun stuff.
But it was the thing of no, the US government
board resources into defending the gold trade on the West
Coast from piracy, a thing I have never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I had been in this industry for a minute.
Speaker 5 (42:35):
Just that that was one of the ones that's really
while to me of you know, the West coast is
not this forgotten land that kind of sent some guys east.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, that that was for me one of the more
interesting things of the weekend. Also, the thing I took
away from Neil's talk was that no matter how much
you try and say like, oh well no, you know,
the Confederacy actually may have had a chance the war
if this would have gone well whatever, just look at
how they administered the navy, Confederate Navy at some point
(43:03):
we haven't talked right, right, how do you have an
admiral when you have two ships? You know, this doesn't
make any sense.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
It being the admiral of your bathtub toys.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
But like to hear how this Confederate Navy authorized operation
is undertaken. But man who then advertises when he intends
to leave the.
Speaker 11 (43:27):
Port on tiggle Horn to carry out piracy and not
expect that anyone anyhow would go Actually, I feel like
that is inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
We're going problem with that is an issue.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
That's just incredible. So I enjoy I really enjoyed that.
I also have to say, I I really like important
to talk. Evan's been on the show. I like Evan's
talk about the New York Draft Riots because well, it
wasn't necessarily like a bunker busting bou hicky myth thing.
It's just something that like outside of gangs of New York,
and there's so many moving pieces to that it handled
(44:08):
them all. So yes, yes, I think, yeah, he nailed that. Yeah,
so I thought I thought that was mine. That was mine.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I don't know if there was any kind of myth
busting that I really hung on to, but it was
more new information about things that either you know, I
personally had misconstrued. It wasn't like it was handed to
me all screwed up. I had screwed it up myself,
but just new information about new things that you know.
I've been a Civil War book probably sixty five of
(44:39):
my seventy years, and there's stuff in there that was
fed to me back in the nineteen sixties that ain't so.
But I really in your talk, you're talking about all
people James Longstreet popping up in New Orleans leading the
troops there.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
I was having a discussion with a park ranger.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
This this past week about the very thing Longstreet pops
up all over the place, and post civil wars everywhere. Yeah,
there is a mass apparently the Where's Waldo of Civil Wars? Yeah,
he absolutely is. And he changes his his facial whiskers
about every year to something bizarre and different. But you
know he's even here in the eighteen eighties and in
(45:18):
Virginia there's a massive train wreck of a passenger train
in Orange County. Bridge collapses, a bunch of people are killed.
You know he's on that train, James Lord Street. Yeah,
he's like a bad opinion.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
He is in the back corner of the nineteenth century.
Is a weird time for him?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Yeah yeah, Now, I will say as it goes to
his various facial hair that picture I pulled today, Yeah,
just I kind of like the just the go to.
That was a good move pro no fu Manchu. Yeah, yeah,
power move, James long Street. Power move. Also power moved
by commanding an integrated police force in the eighteen sixty seventies. Like,
that's the progressive of your craft. I don't know why
(45:57):
I had to say that for saying something.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
That's what I.
Speaker 5 (46:02):
All.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
That occurs about a block from where A little bit
later on PGT Boreguard and Jubile Early will walk man
fleet to the big spinning wheel and spin the wheel
on the Louisiana Lottery.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, you know it happens, that happens in that same
sector of town.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
And to see what became of some of these very
very prominent Confederate generals after the wars, just to try
to make a living.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, you know, is getting up there and going all right,
here goes the wheel, folks. But it was one of
the things that we talked about in my talk and
then a little bit in Shawn's talk this morning. Is
all people, right, and when Albert Sidney Johnston's remains are
removed from New Orleans and brod to Texas, you get
four out of the five commanders of the army in
(46:43):
Tennessee to show up and be present. You've got John Dollhood,
you got Braxton Bragg, you have PGD. Boureguard, Albertiney Johnson
is there. Who's the guy is missing Joe Johnson because
he hated everybody. Everybody hated him. But there's this the
(47:03):
post war world for them is just so fascinated.
Speaker 5 (47:08):
Really, you've been at such a fever pitch to one end.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, man, it's gone, it's gone. You have to figure
out what to do next. And for some people you
could do it.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
And yeah, and post war, for some of the better
known Confederate generals, there is poverty because when you have
been a soldier all your life and you have been
on the losing team and suddenly it's eighteen sixty five
and a half and you're looking for work, what do
you do whatever, you're going to be a soldier again?
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah? What you can tire names Egypt unless you're William
Waring and decide.
Speaker 8 (47:39):
You know, the Shaw really is speaking to me until
you get canned because you're actually not that good enough.
William Louring not good at his job.
Speaker 5 (47:51):
I hate to disturb the listeners by saying that you don't.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Want you don't want to be the William the anti
William Louring.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Guy in the room.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
But like, there are reasons. There's a reason he only
commented division. So this has been super fun. There's one
other segment though, What is in your cup this evening?
Speaker 5 (48:15):
On my end is the Heartywood Richmond Lagger, which is
always a Central Virginia's table because they make hundreds of
millions of gallons of this idea, But describe, describe that
beer describe this beer. Let's see hold on, oh dear,
incredibly light, which is what you want on a August
Virginia and the swamps of Central Virginia.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Delightful Richard Cherry coke. Cherry coke courtesy of mister Chris Brown.
Now you were you were mixing it up in here
last night with your drink. Uh.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
My brother in law makes a drink that he calls
boat drink. He's a paddler, and it's just simply fruit juice.
In this case, it was orange and pineapple juice with myers. No, no, well,
it's coconut rub whatever it is malvo and we have
a refrigerator here in the cabin that I think it's
(49:10):
set at thirty two point one. The most about playing
the oldest drink I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
They're pretty darn good. And I'm going to finish this
off here with the non alcoholic level of choice here
the cool mocks original Kraft mocktail, mock g and T.
It's non GMO, caffeine free, no artific was wheteners. It's
gluten free, and it contains nothing but natural flavors and
(49:41):
has no taste whatsoever. It actually tastes really great. I
got to thing, it's really good. What we had the
peach something that. Yeah, I'm looking for these when I
get back home. This is a kind of a fizzy drink. Yeah,
it's CURRENTD Yeah it sounds nice. It's great. It's really refreshing.
It's definitely one of those where like if you're already
(50:02):
drinking a lot of water anyways throughout the day, and
you're gonna go mow.
Speaker 12 (50:05):
The lawn, yeah, like finish off with this, like, go
well with the chocolate rice cakes. You know, I'm getting
like the scent of the chocolate rice cakes while I'm
eating it. It's not as great as you would think. No,
but these do smell like cocoa rice crispies.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
That's the smell I've been getting. Yeah, that's awesome. That
is my favorite part of this. That's I just unlocked
a level of nostalgia and deliciousness for a lot of
listeners and present Yeah, so humbrew listeners. You can find
more about Civil War trails. You know where to find
(50:42):
the link because we put it in every show description ever.
Chris silently gave me a thumbs up. Thank you for that.
If you want to learn more about Emerging Civil War.
Visit Emerging Civil War's website and you can learn more
about the symposium. You can see next year's theme. You
can buy your tickets for next year already. It's pretty
(51:03):
great that they're already year out and within two or
three weeks of the previous symposium they're ready to launch
for the next one and then two you know, you
can follow the theme, follow the speakers, and you can
always follow and like a subscribe to home or History
Podcast because we look forward to seeing you and hearing
(51:25):
from you next time. But until then, I have a
plan to catch at like five in the morning, and
it is at night. Yeah, so we're going to take
this one right off to the credits. Thanks for listening,
and we'll catch you next time. I thought you'd take
it up Homebrew History, Whole.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Crew, That whole Crew talking about whole grew and reminding
the total crew, the history pot past, going.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Back to the past with the ritless past.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Get bite, give you a gas.
Speaker 10 (52:23):
Are you biting inspired?
Speaker 13 (52:26):
But you'll never get tired of Whole Crew, That Whole
Crew talk scholars on the show with Joey Boo, That
Whole Crew, Whole Crew,
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