Gettysburg: Caught in the Crossfire

Adams County Historical Society CEO and President, Andrew Dalton, joined Bo and Joey to talk about Gettysburg as a town and a civilian population from the Civil War Era to today! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Talking about home.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everybody.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Again, that remains excellent.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
I mean it is, and you know, the shortened version
is actually it goes.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
It goes, well, it does, it does. It's just enough.
It's a little little teaser. We'll kind of get you involved.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
So before we get started today, I have a have
a story to share with you, and.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
So wait until we got on air. So it better
be good.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yes it is. So everybody, pull up a chair, you know,
take a shot and listen. So this past weekend we
celebrated my wife Kaylee's thirtieth birthday or her twenty five
plus five twenty five five times removed. We decided to
stay the weekend in the party capital of well, at

(01:11):
least Louisiana, New Orleans. We stayed at Hotel Saint Marie
and I think it was the I think it was Saturday,
so it might have actually been her on her birthday.
We walked out of Hotel Saint Marie and we were
gonna go, you know, do all the things that people
in New Orleans do, and we immediately walk outside and

(01:31):
we are immediately met by a Navy veteran. This Navy
veteran was walking his dog, to which, of course you know,
both Kaylee and I being animal lovers, you know, we
both sit down, you know, we do all the things
that normal people do, like, oh, people, can I bet
your dog? You know this, that and the other.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
And I did not learn this navy veteran's name, but
I did learn his dog's name because we were like,
you know, you know, it's just you have such a sweet.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Dog and everything.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
And he goes, oh, he's such an asshole, and he said, well,
do you want to know his name? We're like yeah,
and he goes, you're ready and we're like yeah, and
he was damn it. He goes his original name was
supposed to be handsome Harry, but he didn't know who

(02:24):
who the hell Henry was because every time he was
a puppy, he jumped onto something and I'd say, damn it, Henry,
get down, so he'd only respond to damn it.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
The people of.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
New Orleans, Hey, hey, careful.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
No, no, this is a compliment. There are no there
are no other breed like it. They're strange, they're fun,
they're exciting, and they name their dog damnit.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
And they're your co host. All right, Oh goodness, there
you go, there you go.

Speaker 5 (02:59):
That was.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Historical something it was. It was, yeah, thank you veteran
peda dog let's segue anyway, So that's not how I
wanted to kick off series.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
But you know what, here we are.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
So uh we've been hard, hard at work and writing
in the saddle quite a lot this week, I think.
But now this is a third night in a row.
We have one more night of recordings and then I
have a series of edits and changes and enhancements to
make and sound editing to do, and then the Gettysburg

(03:45):
series will be out there for all the world and
to hear and speaking of seeing it. If you're watching
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(05:10):
coaching played at church, right, you see it coming around?
You know you could? How could you?

Speaker 1 (05:17):
You could?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
You could? But if you don't do that, at least
I can subscribe.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Anyhow, We're gonna jump off real quick, quick commercial break,
and then we'll be back with our guest for tonight's
episode on Gettysburg. This today's episode, This episode on Gettysburg.
Because who knows when you're listening to. This could be
on the on the ride work, work, could be late
at night. Maybe you're insomniac and you're staying up and

(05:46):
this is your therapy. God bless you. Uh we'll be
right back and uh we'll jump back in the saddle
with Gettysburg.

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Speaker 3 (08:31):
Remember going to bring on to the show our guests
for We are today President and CEO of the Adams
County Historical Society in Adams County, Pennsylvania, Andrew Dalton. And
Andrew is joining us there, he is. He's caught in
the crossfire bell.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
That's great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
We're glad that we could get you on to order
up a round of home brewin rom Homebrew District.

Speaker 5 (09:00):
Yea, I love the intro.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
You're just nervous, I guess so it's definitely not the
meat I'm drinking. Uh, I gave it, gave it as.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Uh So, Andrew, let's start off just a little bit,
a little bit about yourself and a little bit about
what it is you do with the Adams County Historical Society.

Speaker 5 (09:24):
Sure, yeah, I mean I grew up here. I love Gettysburg.
Uh you know, I went to Gettysburg College, and through
college I worked for our local historical society, the Adams
County Historical Society. And at that point we were located
in a pretty uh rundown old Victorian house that was
packed full of you know, all of our Archives. We

(09:44):
have more than a million historical items in our collection,
probably closer to multiple million. It's hard to count, but
it's really the entire preserved memory of Gettysburg and the
surrounding county. Uh So, I worked through college there and
then after graduating, had the opportunity to take over, and
we ran a pretty large capital campaign, built a new,

(10:05):
brand new facility right on the edge of the Gettysburg Battlefield,
and we opened a museum called Beyond the Battle in
twenty twenty three, and here we are. We also helped
the launch a film festival with Ken Burns called the
Gettysburg Film Festival, and that has also taken off. And
you know, we also own a beautiful downtown museum that
we just recently acquired, the Shriver House Baltimore Street, which

(10:28):
is literally caught in the crossfire. I'm sure we'll return
to that term a couple of times, but you know,
I love the place and I'm committed to all the
exciting things that are going on there. There's never a
shortage of events or opportunities in Gettysburg.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Kind of feels like we got the title for the
episode figured out. It's going to be called Perfect.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I imagine that Gettysburg's got a hold a special place
you know, in your heart, you know, and it seems
that you know, Gettysburg is and we're kind of talking
about this in the pre show, but it's so unique
that Gettysburg went from almost nothing to the center, you know,
of everything. So Andrew, what does what does Gettysburg mean
to you?

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Well?

Speaker 5 (11:13):
A lot of things. I mean personally, it's it's home.
I spent my childhood, you know, with my dad walking
around on the battlefield, you know, climbing on cannons and
you can bleep that part out for the National Park
Service and uh, you know, I.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
That's a big question.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
There are there may be some photos of me, you know,
climbing climbing, but uh, it's just it's a it's a
remarkable place, as you know, as you know, it's it's
six thousand acres of beautiful open ground with thousands of
monuments and millions of stories. I mean, if you really
look at what we know and what we don't yet know,
it's just an unending, uh you know, resource of information

(11:56):
and knowledge and and and inspiration. I've always loved history,
so I don't know where it came from. But I
was just connected with it early on, and I think
finding kind of the stories that have not yet been
told is my passion. And I am always looking for
what's next and how can we, you know, find the
next best story. And so, you know, on that level,

(12:19):
it means something to me. You know, it's very personally
because this is where you know, I grew up. But
it's also it just means a lot to me as
an American. I think Gettysburg has a lot of lessons
to teach still. This is the place where you know,
democracy was saved or republic was saved. You know, I
had history teachers who said, you know, the country was

(12:40):
found in Philadelphia and saved the Gettysburg and you know,
it's kind of cliche, but it's true. And I think,
you know that all the connections with Eisenhower, with Lincoln,
with the Battle of Course, and then some of the
early history, and it's it's a place I think unlike
any other small town in the country, just the layers
of history that you can peel back.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
And so, you know, I.

Speaker 5 (13:03):
Think Gettysburg really, you know, can bring people together too.
It's it's it's a place where Americans can can see
some commonality and and you know, empathize with, you know,
the stories of these incredible heroes that fought and died here,
and and the incredible Americans that that you know, used
getty Iceburg to advance their own understanding of leadership, like

(13:24):
Eisenhower in particular. So I'm into all of it, and
it really is special to me.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Mhm m Well. I think one of the things that
that all of our guests have kind of talked about
this week, though, is that it's a it's a place
that means a great deal personally. It's a place where
they've invested a lot of time and energy. And you know,
for so many people, their profession is centered around or

(13:51):
in Gettysburg, uh, And whether it's leading towards researching the
battle or researching soldiers who were there, everyone is drawn
to it for some reason. So clearly you've made your
personal connection there, You've got your professional connection there. But
then in twenty twenty three, you get to open up
this museum, and as the president is the leader of

(14:12):
this organization, you get to kind of shape what the
interpretation is going to be there. So when people show
up at the Adams County Historical Society museum and they
walk into beyond the battle, is the expectation that they're
going to find a lot of you know, order of
battle and leadership charts and regimental histories and left, right
and left. What should people think? Right? We talked about

(14:36):
this in the pre shows. That's not the direction, you know,
if you want that, listen to another podcast.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's it isn't. And I think that, you know,
the there's a really underappreciated story here, and that is
that this was a community and is still a community.
And you know, sometimes visitors will come and ask, you know,
where was the battle thought, you know, and there expecting
some like cordoned off piece of land where somebody just

(15:03):
you know, pointed to it and said, you know, the
battle's going to be fought in this you know acre.
But it happened in people's backyards, it happened on their farms,
it happened in their homes in some cases like the
Shriver House. And there were, you know, residents of Gettysburg
who were killed, wounded, captured, died of disease after the
battle because of the conditions. So I was initially really

(15:25):
hooked on the idea that like this is a humanitarian
crisis in a very small town, overwhelmed by hundreds of
thousands of soldiers, tens of thousands of casualties, and you
have like two thousand people living in the middle of
all of this who had no idea what was about
to happen, and during the battle, had no idea what
the outcome would be, and had no idea whether the

(15:46):
town would still be standing at the end. So I
think that that human interest story, that is how we
really frame the museum. We lead visitors up to the battle,
we tell the story of the battle through their eyes,
and then we talk about how that was just a
transformational event for the community and everything after it, you know,
rippled out from the battle, tourism, commercialism, the industries that developed,

(16:12):
the railroad coming through. All of it happened because Gettysburg
was on the map, not just for the battle, but
because of Lincoln, and you know the Gettysburg Address, which
I think early on there was perhaps even more appreciation
and emphasis on Lincoln and the and the address than
there is today. So there's all these layers, and then

(16:34):
of course you throw in another president to the Eisenhower
later on. But our museums called beyond the battle, because
it takes you on a journey through time from literally
the earliest human inhabitants of this area of Gettysburg, through
the founding of the town, the years leading up to
the Civil War, of course, the battle, and then what
happened in the century and a half after.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
So, Andrew, can you tell our listeners a little bit
about the town of Gettysburg prior for at least a
lead up to the American Civil War? What's the town like,
you know, especially the lead up, you know, to the
American Civil War. Obviously people are politically on pins and needles.
They know something is coming, they just don't know what.
So what exactly are the people of Gettysburg experiencing in

(17:20):
the pre war years?

Speaker 5 (17:21):
Yeah, well, just backing up a little for context. Gettysburg
was founded in seventeen eighty six by the Gettis family.
They were Scotch Irish Presbyterian immigrants, and the town really
developed over the you know, the first thirty forty years
of the nineteenth century, and by the time of the
Civil War, you know, it was a pretty significant place.

(17:42):
It wasn't well known, but it also wasn't kind of
a sleepy, you know hamlet that nobody had heard of.
You know, ten roads converged at Gettysburg, and of course
that led the armies to kind of accidentally clash here.
And Gettysburg had two academic institutions of higher learning, a
seminary and a small college which is now Gettysburg College.

(18:04):
It had many churches. There were three newspapers in the
town at the time of the Civil War, and you know,
it was I would say well known regionally. And because
of that, you know, there was a little more in
terms of resources, and there was some wealth here. There
was some industry beyond farming. There was actually a pre

(18:25):
thriving carriage industry in Gettysburg prior to the Civil War.
Politically it was very divided. Lincoln actually won Adams County,
Pennsylvania in eighteen sixty by six votes, so very divided,
and actually I love this fact. Unfortunately, you know, Lincoln
came here and gave the most famous speech in American history,
and then a year later lost Adams County, Pennsylvania in

(18:47):
the presidential election. So yeah, so it's a very interesting dynamic.
And we have in our museum their election returns on
the wall, which people love to read, and it says
you know, Lincoln's voat totals and the other vote totals,
but very divided, and you know, there was a fear
that or I should say, first of all, that the

(19:08):
industry we're so close to the Maryland Pennsylvania line, were
eight miles from the Mason Dixon line, so we're not
far from Maryland in Virginia in West Virginia, which came
about a little later, and so the industry, especially the
carriage industry in this area was connected to Virginia and
to Maryland, and so a lot of families had you know,
business and even relational ties to the South, so to speak.

(19:33):
So there were a lot of people in Gettysburg who
you know, were anti war, but not necessarily fully on
board with you know, with the Union, cause there weren't
many Confederate I would say sympathizers in Gettysburg. But it
was definitely a quiet undertone of you know, having relationships
that stretched into the South, and you know, when the

(19:55):
battle was approaching, you know, I do think that that
created a a unifying factor that everybody kind of was
in the same boat. And frankly, it was an invading
army no matter how you where your allegiances are, and
so there's there's an aspect of that. But one of
my favorite artifacts in the museum is actually a Confederate
flag that was hastily like stitched together by a family.

(20:18):
They were panicking that the Confederates, Oh my gosh, they're
gonna they're gonna burn our house down. So they stitched
this horrible looking Confederate flag and flew it out the
side of the window. And unfortunately their house was still
robbed and looted, but they tried to, you know, kind
of appease the Confederates, which might speak to the kind
of conflicted loyalties of some of the families here.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Yeah, it seems like the town. So you would say
that Lincoln loses the election there in sixty four, I
can't imagine that Gettysburg is necessarily maybe voting for John C. Breckinridge.
So I guess the second place must have been Douglas.

Speaker 5 (20:58):
Yeah, I know, you know, well, in sixty four, I
think McClellan, you know, was popular to an extent because
people wanted the war to end, and the people of
Adams County were devastated by the war, and so you
can't forget that, like the economy was totally destroyed at

(21:19):
least for a period of time in Gettysburg, but by
the war, but then in particular by the battle, and
so I think there was a lot of sentiment kind
of against you know, a prolonged, continued conflict. In fact,
some of the newspaper reporters who came to Gettysburg right
after the battle and interviewed the civilians were struck by
how and actually really kind of nasty to the civilians

(21:41):
in their columns, saying, these people only care about their
their livestock and their you know, damage to their property,
and you know, they should feel grateful that the Union
Army won this great victory, you know, in their home
and you know, and in particular, I think they pick
on Lydia Lester, who owned Meads headquarters on the battlefield.
The interviewer, she's this you know, older Pennsylvania Dutch woman,

(22:02):
and she's just, you know, almost in the same dialect
you might hear today from some people who live who've
lived their whole lives here. She's saying, you know, they
they tore up my house and there's there's shells through
the roof and everything is destroyed, and how am I
gonna you know, get this back together. And it's just
really a kind of humorous little interview where she's, you know,

(22:22):
they're making fun of her, but it's very real for
her because she she is already you know, not a
well to do citizen, and she's now has you know,
all these other problems and she had like she was
collecting the bones of all the dead horses to sell,
and and so there's just some really fascinating dynamics to

(22:42):
you know, how the civilians perceived the war and how
they perceive Lincoln. But there, of course were many others
who were you know, we're you know, staunch supporters of
Lincoln and the Republicans.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
So if in sixty they go Douglas, then Lincoln, and
then before they go mcley McLellan over Lincoln, it makes
you second guess a lot of the maybe the preconceived
notions of what the town must have been. Like, you know,
you hear people talk about some of the units that
were the Pennsylvania regiments that were there, and it's almost

(23:15):
like untermatically like oh, yeah, you know, they're fighting on
their home ground. People there must have loved that. And
then you got to think, like, okay, well, they're destroying
the farm and they're destroying these houses. And it's a question,
you know, bo We've talked about before, is if you
are in say Atlanta eighteen sixty four, or Nashville eighteen
sixty two, or New Orleans eighteen sixty any of these

(23:38):
towns where the war comes through, this is still a war.
It's still destructive by nature, and it's an interruption to
your life. So you would almost rather just tell with it,
let it just be done. I'm sick of it. I
don't want to hear about it. I don't want to
think about it. It's easier to put it aside because
it is an interruption and it's destructive to their way life, money,

(24:01):
to their you know, to their homes, their property, all
these things. At the end, though, you know, we get
this town that becomes thrust into into the story of
the Civil War, and we start throwing around words like
turning points and most important and all this stuff, and
we forget at the end of it that there's still

(24:21):
people who were I'm going to do it again, caught
in a crossfire. Which takes me to my question is
what was when you built that exhibit? Because you're talking
about everything pre war. They need to talk about the war.
What happens when your guests see that, how do they
interact with it?

Speaker 5 (24:39):
Well, we wanted to do something really kind of visceral
for the Like you said, it was a turning point,
and it's a turning point not just for the country,
but for the community and for the people who live here.
They all had to go through it, and some of
them were able to get, you know, away, some of
them stayed in their homes and weathered the battle. But

(25:00):
we wanted to give people a real sense of the
fear because I think I mentioned earlier, they had no
idea what the outcome would be. And that's something I
think we take for granted in history quite a bit,
is that you know, we know the story, we know
what happens. They did not know what happened, and you
have to sort of adopt that mindset, I think when
you're thinking about the terror and the anxiety of the

(25:23):
local families. And it's true in any in any war
zone really where you have people trapped or displaced. But
we wanted to create an experience for people where they
could actually enter a home that is caught in the crossfire.
That's what we call the experience, and we we really
didn't want to pull any punches in terms of authenticity.

(25:43):
We went out to a shooting range. We recorded firing
rifles and cannons and and actually with live you know, projectiles,
we put microphones down range to capture the sounds of
the impact and the sounds of the movement of you know,
of the projectiles overhead. We've shot through wood and and
and you know, they even shot through deer flesh to

(26:06):
get the very morbid sound of a bullet striking, you know,
a living thing. And it was really I was listening
on the headphones and it was just like breathtaking. I
mean I had never you read about it. You might
see in movies, but you when you actually hear it yourself, like,
it's stunning. So we took all that sound and we

(26:28):
got some really excellent you know, museum designers to help
us with the lighting and the programming and everything. And
my good friend Jeff schera local and nationally known author
of historical fiction, wrote the script that you hear of
a family hiding below you, underneath the floorboards and the cellar,
and he actually took a lot of real letters and

(26:48):
diaries from our collection and created that. And you know,
every time you go in you kind of hear something
different or see something different. And I like to tell people,
if you go in there and close your eyes, you
really are as close as anyone can come to understanding
what this was like for people. The floorboard shake, you know,
there's people, you know, crying and yelling and praying, and

(27:11):
it's just, you know, it's it's It's been well received. Kids,
younger visitors especially really have found it engaging and exciting.
Some people find it a little too much. We've actually
had some some veterans with PTSD who you know, have
come out a little early, but they still appreciated the
you know, the the intent and the effort to make
this real for people. And then really, I think the

(27:33):
most moving aspect, which I did not we didn't expect
or predict at all, was we've had a lot of
people come out and really kind of empathize with other
people around the world who are living through war that oh,
my gosh, this must be what it's like to be
in like in Ukraine or in you know, Tel Aviv,
or in you know, Gaza, you know, anywhere where there's

(27:56):
active violence. And there's families who want nothing to do
with that violence, that are just trying to keep their family,
their loved ones safe.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (28:04):
And we've had people from those areas, actually, uh, we've
had we had a refugee family from Afghanistan. And I'll
never forget, you know, hearing about you. The docent came
to me and said, there were some kids in there
today and they said this sounds a lot like home.
And I asked them what they meant, and they said
they were from Cobble, and so, you know, it's it's
just really, you know that that was not intended. And

(28:26):
I'm really happy that people are coming through there, and
you know, at least some people, some come out in tiers,
and you know, it's really that was so rewarding to
have that kind of see that kind of a reception
to something we worked hard on, and you know that moment.
You know, we we have it captured through hundreds of
letters and diaries and newspaper articles, but it's nothing comes

(28:47):
anywhere close to being able to actually sit in a
room with it. And and that's by far the most
popular feature of the museum, and it really is kind
of the turning point of the museum where we you
I'm out of there and you're in the aftermath and
you see artifacts that have been scarred by bullets and shells,
and the back wall of our immersive experience, actually we

(29:08):
had the museum designers destroy it with you know, bullet
holes and artillery shell holes, and we actually embedded real
Gettysburg bullets that were found on the battlefield into the
walls so people can touch the real relics. And so
we kind of cap that off, and then it transitions
right into the there you go, Yeah, there's a picture
of it. It transitions real well too, into the next

(29:29):
section about kind of you know, the burial of the
dead Lincoln coming here and dedicating the cemetery, you know,
the power of the Gettysburg address, and then and then
off to the races with all the tourism and commercial
activity that happened in the one hundred and fifty years after.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
I mean, I'm just absolutely baffled, you know. And it again,
I told this to Melissa last night we recorded our
episode with Harris and I have got to make it
to Gettysburger. I've been everywhere, but so I mean, I
imagine that's incredibly unique experience for everyone. And that's that's
kind of our goal, isn't it, especially in the twenty

(30:10):
first century, is to get all generations involved in history.
That history is not just in the classroom. History is
not just in documentaries. It's not just dusty old books,
you know. And to make history come alive takes a
certain uniqueness. And I think that you know, from everything

(30:30):
that I've seen, everything that I've read about what y'all
do over there is doing just them, you know, and
I can't imagine. And this is something that kind of
terrifies me because well we all know that, you know,
civil war weaponry isn't accurate. I mean it is to
a degree, you know, but not compared to twenty first
century armaments. Is it more terrifying to not know where

(30:52):
these armaments land? Or is it more terrifying to know
that their pinpoint accurate? You know? Either way, it's still terrifying.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
That's such a good point, Yeah, I mean, that is something.
There are still many houses in downtown Gettysburg that have
incredible scars from the battle, including the Shriver House Museum,
which has an authentic sharpshooter's nest in the attic where
we actually know from first hand accounts that there were
several at least two Confederates killed in the attic, shot
and killed through the little holes, you know, the attic

(31:21):
window or the holes they had poked through the brick
with their rifles to you know, to fire at the
Union Army and the Union line on Cemetery Hill nearby.
But you know that we earlier this year we were
able to acquire that museum, and it really is an
excellent companion to this because you know, this is created,
but that is real, and you can stand in that
window and look out those little holes that the Confederates,

(31:42):
you know, pope through the brick, and that gives me
chills to sit up there and know that there were
actually human beings killed at that exact location during the
most pivotal battle in our history. So, you know, it's
it all speaks to the larger theme of like this
was a this was a home for people, and these

(32:04):
you know, I always wonder they would be people would
be amazed to see that all these places, you know,
are still being you know, talked about, and that your
your home. Imagine if your home was turned into a museum.
And I think about that sometimes, like you know you
and I'm sure you know there are homes in you know,
in plate active war zones now that will one day
be interpreted and talked about, uh, and we will be

(32:26):
understanding the civilian impact in those conflicts. But so I think,
you know, people have really responded to this, and I
appreciate that those that uh that comment it really you know,
you hear. I think that in particular for veterans who've
been in combat, the sounds of the shells moving overhead
is the most unnerving, at least for me when we
were putting this together. I remember hearing that for the

(32:48):
first time, and it is it's terrifying. I mean you
you're right, and who knows where it's going to explode.
Is it going to drop right on your house or
out in the street. And it really is a miracle.
Only one civilian and Gotburg was killed, Jenny Wade, who's
quite famous. She was baking bread for the Union Army
and a bullet came through the exterior door and killed
her instantly in her sister's home on the southern outskirts

(33:12):
of town, not far from the Shriver House Museum. But
others were wounded. Several were shot of course, the famous
civilian John Burns went out and joined the Union Army.
He was sixty nine years old, kind of a curmudgeony figure.
And yeah, we have their shirts and Gettysburg that say
get off my lawn and it's his picture sitting in
front of his house with his rifle. But he was

(33:35):
shot several times actually fighting alongside the Union army. But
you know, the townspeople were not immune to anything, and
far more died after And these are the stories that
are not talked about much. We have some a small
exhibit in the museum about this, but the number at
least a handful, if not more, especially children, predominantly children

(33:56):
were killed handling artillery shells and guns that had been
left behind on the battlefield. And that kind of gets
into the commercial side of Gettysburg. You know, when the
battle ends, there's there are relics laying everywhere. I'm fascinated
with the accounts of the early newspaper reporters who walked
around and describe what they see at different places. But

(34:17):
the kids of Gettysburg are are going around gathering all
these things up and bringing them into town. Because tourists
literally started arriving immediately I think this is something people
don't really think about too much. But back then and
I think still today, like this was a there was
a massive amount of interest in visiting these battlefields, and

(34:40):
so people just poured in. Now it was a mixture
of curiosity seekers. Some people, you know, were actually followed
the armies and looted battlefields after the fighting, and they
would you know, strip things off of the bodies. And
then you have you know, all the family of people
who are missing or wounded and they're trying desperately to
find their loved one. So you have this combination of

(35:01):
all these people arriving and descending on the battlefield. But
that creates an atmosphere where there's commercial opportunity. So relics
are being picked up and sold. Artillery shells are being
diffused and emptied by people who really don't know what
they're doing. You know, to take the powder out of
these shells, you have to unscrew the fuse cap and

(35:21):
then dump the powder out to disarm the shell. Sometimes
the caps are a little rusted, sometimes they don't come
off that easy. So you have kids banging these shells
on rocks to try to get the caps loose and
you can imagine what happens. But we have a story
after story after story of kids who were killed or
severely wounded trying to gather the relics for sale, and

(35:45):
that is you know, we consider them casualties of the battle,
and we talk about them and their names are some
of their names are in the museum.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
And you know, some one of the things that Carolyn
Janny wrote about in her books selling the Civil War
is all selling. You know all these things that come
up after the war. War logs and you know, the
bullet that grazed this general. All these things start to
pop up in the back of like National tribunes and
Confederate veterans, and there's ads in the Southern historical records

(36:16):
all these different places. And one of the things that
I came across in my own research in Tennessee was,
you know, at the end of the day, if you've
got a farm that's in the middle of an artillery
duel and there's shells in the trees, well at some
point you're gonna cut down that tree and you're going
to use it for firewood. And you know, I always

(36:37):
loved it, and I would I would actually get excited
when people would ask at Carnton, they'd say, did this
house suffering damage during the Battle of Franklin. I would
go yes and no, it suffered damage from the Battle
of Franklin. And then I'd tell them the story about
how a shell exploded in the house several years afterwards,
just because it was thrown in a log in the

(36:58):
fireplace intended right. And it does force you to think, like, well,
at some point the war comes to an end and
life resumes, and yet still you have these little reminders,
sometimes very violent reminders that the war in fact raked

(37:19):
across your property and could still be damaging. So people
come to Gettysburg during the war after the war, but
we've kind of we've already name dropped him a couple
of times. But I think it would be worthwhile. And
I have the picture of the century, and I hope
it works this time the picture to show for this

(37:42):
next one. Let's see, here we go, Here we go,
because it has to be with this man and this
man alone. I am manty because this is he is.
She's always around, always watching.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
That's great, that's great. I love this photo. We have
many photos like this. He yeah, so yeah, let's talk
about him. He We just actually did a film festival
about World War Two, so we did a lot on him.
And Susan, Eisenhower's granddaughter is a good friend of ours
and is she tells the absolute best stories I think
of anybody I know, as you could well imagine. But yeah,

(38:24):
so ike, A lot of people come here. They don't
know about the connection to Eisenhower. I don't think Eisenhower
gets nearly enough attention, uh, you know, for his incredible
success as a military commander and probably the most successful
and non controversial two term president like of the last century.
Uh you know, he he is. He comes to Gettysburg

(38:46):
in as a young military officer during the First World War.
You know, he's born and lives grows up in Abilene, Kansas,
born in Texas, grows up in Abilene, Kansas, and he,
you know, joins the army, comes to Gettysburg and is
placed in command of a tank training camp. You know,
people do not associate tanks typically with the First World War.

(39:08):
That's because they were brand new and they had like
two tanks. A lot of people think, oh, tank training camp.
You know, they've got tanks everywhere. I think the camp
actually only had like three tanks the entire time, maybe
two and so they are learning how to use these things.
And because Gettysburg is federally protected land owned by the
War Department at that time, I think I'm not sure

(39:29):
if it had transferred over yet. Tim Smith or historian
would know better, but anyway, regardless government land, they're training
with these tanks on the battlefield. And so you have,
you know, Eisenhower leading this experiment in training men to
operate tanks in you know, to be used in combat
in Europe during the First World War. And one of

(39:52):
my favorite little tie ins to that story is I
when I was younger, there were I visited an elderly
couple at a farm in a battlefield farm and I
think has since been sold to the Park Service, but
they lived on the battlefield and they had a bucket
of bullets that they had found, but there were World

(40:12):
War One bullets mixed in that they had found from
this period. And they told me, I think it was
the older gentleman. I think it was his parents who
collected them. And he said, he told me a family
story that the older people in the family woke up
like to the sound of gunshots and they were terrified

(40:33):
because they had been children during the Battle of Gettysburg,
and all of a sudden they're now hearing all these
volleys and rifle cracks outside their home during the First
World War with the training. So again, the kind of
overlapping layers of history always fascinated me. But Eisenever came here,
he fell in love with Gettysburg. He loved history just inherently.

(40:53):
He never deployed to the First World War while he
was here, though the Spanish flu absolutely ravaged his camp.
You know, hundreds died. It was a disaster. It was
really his first test in a very dicey leadership situation
and overwhelmed the town's hospitals. And unlike the recent pandemic
we've been through, you know, the Spanish flu really hit

(41:14):
young people very hard. So it was it was devastating.
But Eisenhower really kind of proved his medal as a commander,
and then you know, of course rose to the rank
of you know, Supreme Allied Commander in World War Two.
But he loved Gettysburg enough to come back and purchase
a farm here in nineteen fifty. This was before he
ran for president. But you know, I think they were

(41:36):
thinking about it at that point, and they wanted something
kind of in the country as an escape from Washington,
so the farmers purchased in fifty Of course, he became president,
ran in fifty two and served two years and really
used Gettysburg as a, you know, a retreat from Washington
and governed from here on several occasions, including after a
major heart attack. But my one of my favorite things,

(41:58):
and you have it on the screen here, is that
Ike would take these world leaders around the battlefield for tours.
And if only, you know, you could be a fly
on the wall and listen to Ike giving a tour
of the Gettysburg battlefield. That's like on my bucket list
of hoping someday somebody turns up with like a news recording.
There's some quotes, and we know a little bit about
how he would conduct the tours, but boy, would that

(42:20):
be amazing to be there with him, And you know,
he had to goll there. He had Church Hill, he
had you know, the presidence of Mexico and Spain and
a range of other countries, and we have photos of
so many of these presidents and foreign leaders, and it
sort of set a model. A lot of other presidents
followed that model and brought world leaders here. Jimmy Carter
brought anwar Sadat and Monotton Bagan here during the Camp

(42:43):
David Accords, and I think that that's the right name
for that particular treaty. But they came here and he
used Gettysburg as a way of saying, this is what
happens when everything falls apart. You know, you have a
blood bath, and there's some really amazing I actually know
the part Granger who took Carter and sat and began
around and he wrote about his experience, and you know,

(43:07):
they were moved. He brought them to the angle at
Pickts Charge and he and they were actually he you know,
Carter really thought that that was a pivotal moment in
breaking through with the negotiations, using Getty's prig as a
tool to help them understand that there's there's no path
forward that includes you know, this kind of prolonged, you know, bloody,
horrible war. So so Eisenhower set the model for that,

(43:29):
and you know, many other presidents have been here. I
think twenty six US presidents in total have been to
Gettysburg that we know of.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Wow, and that's something that that always blows my student's mind,
especially when I'm talking about the American Civil Wars, especially
at the first Battle of bull Run. You know, I'm like,
families were like picknicking, picnicing, you know, and they're like,
what do you talk like? They look at me like
I've just told them a complete fib Yeah, you know,

(43:57):
you got family sitting on the hill because I thought
would be short, sweet and to the point, but you know,
you never really think about the aftermath of a battle
and sort of the buzzards, you know, not the actual buzzards,
but you know, people who were interested in war trinkets,
you know, things that.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
Yeah, we have so many of those too. We got
all kinds of It's amazing how many things people tried
and made out of, like battlefield wood or you know,
little desk sets or displays we have. It's one of
my favorite parts of our collection.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
I think there's somewhere out there there's an American Battlefield
Trust video that I did right before I left Franklin
where I'm holding a model of the carter House cotton
gin made out of pieces of the carter House cotton gin. Wow,
And I told people it was like this. People always
ask like, what's your favorite artifact, and most everybody expects
me to say, like, oh, you know this gun that

(44:48):
was carried No, no, no, no, I like this this
gin because it's made of the gin. And that's that's
just a really cool, like tactle thing, right you know.
Right now, I work at place and there's a picture
frame made out of one of the governor's favorite cigar boxes.
And so it's it's just it's arts and crafts. It's

(45:10):
really really neat because it's those interesting little things where
you see the creativity, you see this link back to
a personality or to to this kind of humanization. But
I guess with like with Ike and Manty going to
the round Tops or exploring around Colps Hill, can you
even imagine what the conversations must have been like, Yes,

(45:33):
you know, I can now if you could have let
me this cleft kind of accented you know, it would
just great to see that.

Speaker 5 (45:40):
Oh my gosh, it incredible, it would be incredible. Well,
you know, Eisenwer got into some real hot water here
because there a reporter asked him on one of these tours,
you know, how he would have handled Roberty Lee if
he had served under him After the defeat at Gettysburg,
and he said I would have fired him. And this
caused a man massive pr disaster for Eisenhower because of

(46:03):
the you know, the South, and you know there were
because of the South, and and they you know, this
was a time when things were not that they're not
still sensitive. Uh, you know, no offense to you guys,
but you know, certain certain folks down below the Mason
Dixon line were not thrilled with Eisenhower's comment, and so
they actually had to come out and apologize.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
And I gave a speech at the White House where
he you know, I think he talked about how he
has Robbery Lee's picture hanging on his wall. You know,
so they he walked that one back. But I agree
that that if we knew what these people talked about,
it would be just I would I would kill to know.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
You know how really funny because you know, when you
get involved in social media, right, this Homebrew history gets
recommended all these different pages to fall off, right, and
you know, your scroll and you're like, oh, let's see
what this is, you know whatever, and it's like, what
did Eisenhower really think of Roberty Lee. It's like this

(47:02):
touching beautiful tribute and it's like, wait a second, I thought,
there's probably more context to that, and it turns out,
thanks to the Adams kind of historical society, we know
that that's great.

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Yeah, and you can watch I believe there it is record.
His remarks are recorded where he had to kind of
walk it back, but you know, it speaks to the
moment and you know what was controversial then, and you know,
I'm sure today you could probably get away with much
more criticism of Roberty Lee than he could in nineteen,
you know, fifty six or whatever it was.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 5 (47:35):
We were given just recently by the Eisenhower family a
collection of hundreds of items that were personally owned by Ike,
and I have to tell you that was one of
my most exciting days at work, where we were just
unboxing these things. They had been boxed up for a
long time, I think since at least, you know, the
during the lifetime of John Eisenhower, their son. And you know,
the first box, the first box we opened, the first thing,

(47:58):
and it was a Christmas card from Ike to Maimi
and like no one had ever looked at that, you know,
beyond their immediate family. Until that day, and so it
was really cool. We have Ike's pocket his lighter on display,
engraved monogram lighter in our We have a small changing
exhibit in the lobby, and we have some paintings. He

(48:19):
was an avid painter, especially in his retirement. Those are
on display and and you know, all kinds of other things.
They're Christmas stockings. So it's really uh, it's really cool.
And I learned recently too. Ike has a he put
he loved time capsules, and he put time capsules all
over the place, and this is like could be a
National Treasure movie or something. But there's there's a time

(48:40):
capsule at the Eisenhower farm somewhere. And I learned this
recently from from the family, and I think it's to
be opened at a certain date, long after Eisenhower's death.
But supposedly there's some you know, candid thoughts that he
wrote down about that he didn't want kind of released
at the time. So can you know somewhere tucked away?
I think they sort of. I think that the Eisenhower

(49:02):
family sort of knows where it is, but they're under
very strict instructions from from Ike not to open it
until a certain date.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
And if there's anybody that knows about strict instructions from Ike,
it's the man in the picture next to him.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
That's true. Yeah, I'm sure their banter was great. I'm
sure Churchill's visit was pretty exciting to Susan Eisenhower tells
a really amazing story about when Nikita Krushchieff visited and U,
this is the height of the of tensions and and
the grandkids were brought out to sort of lighten the mood.
So they come out and khrush Chief like take Susan

(49:37):
is bouncing her on his knee and like, you know,
talking to her. And you know they right before that,
you know, they were sort of you know, told that
you know this is you know this you got to
be very you know aware of the fact that these
people are really not our friends, and so, you know,
but they were they were brought out to to you know,
to help with the negotiations. And tells it much better

(50:01):
than I just did. And I think she's told it publicly.
But you know, a lot happened at that farm. And
the farm is right on the edge of the battlefield
to the point where they had to close one of
the observation towers because they had a fear of snipers.
So the Secret Service was very active in Gettysburg during
the time. You know, actually a couple of them lived
in my neighborhood, you know, in houses that were built
long after the battle. But it was it was an

(50:24):
interesting place during that whole era. You know, you have
the President of the United States here a lot, and
and you know he was, you know, he and Mamie
would be, you know, shopping in the store or going
to a movie, or you know, maybe would go to
the grocery store and they'd like each Secret Service agent
would stand at the end of an aisle and then
they'd like move on to the next aisle when she
moved on to the aisle, and then clear the aisle

(50:45):
and she'd just push her little cart. So it you know,
it's that part of Gettysburg's history. In any other town,
I think that would be the big story. Like Gettysburg's
amazing because it just piles on at so many layers
that another town would would be like so excited to
have this the Eisenhower story, and that would be the
whole museum. But for us, it's just the kind of

(51:07):
last section. So you know, we have this this incredible
depth to the story, which is we're just lucky.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
So Andrew, I'm kind of curious, man, what Obviously, you
guys have a lot of primary source, you know, information
when it comes to all of us. You don't really
build a museum without it. What exactly are the people
of Gettysburg writing about, you know, July first through third,
eighteen sixty three.

Speaker 5 (51:34):
Well, we have, It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
We have.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
We have a combination of different types of sources. We
have diaries and letters and those are my favorite because
they're the most honest, really, and then we have you know,
later reminiscences which were published, you know, from the time
of the battle all the way through like the nineteen
thirties and forties, because some of these people were living
that long. And the letters and diaries there are not many,

(51:57):
but the ones that we do have, you know, are
are fascinating. A couple that are more famous. Sarah Broadhead
left the diary, Sally Myers left diaries. We have some
of those in our collection, and we have a letter.
I think my favorite account from the immediate aftermath is
an account by John Rupp, who his house was and
tannery were located on Baltimore Street near the Shriver House,

(52:20):
and he's writing a letter to his sister, like a
few days after the battle, maybe a week after the battle.
And we have the original letter in our collection on display,
and the letter is just unbelievable. He's talking about how
he hid in the cellar of the house and the
Union army was in the backyard and the Confederates were

(52:41):
in the front of the house and they were shooting
through the house at each other. And he says he
comes up from his the basement when the fighting ends
and he's picking up like bucketfuls of bullets that are
just scattered around the floor of like the living room
and cleaning up after, you know, of the battle. So
that's the type of thing I mean. They they all

(53:03):
talk a lot about the aftermath, you know, they don't
really many of them. Most of them don't see the battle.
They they see the Union armies retreat through town, which
is the moment we capture in our immersive experience. So
they're very aware of the fact that, you know, the
Union army has has fallen back through the town, the
Confederates have captured the town. At that point, they're mostly
you know, sheltering in their in their cellars. And then

(53:25):
July fourth is kind of the liberation day. The Confederate
army uh, you know, has retreated back to Seminary Ridge
and they're they're beginning their retreat uh back to Virginia,
and the Union Army marches back into the streets of
Gettysburg and there's kind of a cautious but you know,
relieved greeting where the civilians are kind of slowly coming

(53:46):
out of their houses and one, uh, one teenager named
Daniel Skelley grabs this giant flag and throws it off
the side of the roof at the store where he
works as the Union Army is marching into the street.
And we actually have that flag in our collection and
it was one of my favorite artifacts. It's huge, so
we actually didn't have a room to put it on display,

(54:07):
but maybe one day we'll figure out some way to
display it. But anyway that they're writing about, you know,
the I think predominantly their accounts are focused on, or
at least the parts that are most memorable to me
are about the aftermath, the clean up, the devastation, the
illness in the town after you know, contaminated water sources,

(54:30):
having a lack of resources, and the fact that every
single structure virtually was taken over and used as a hospital.
You have like fifteen twenty thousand wounded soldiers in this town.
Every everything became a hospital. There's i think from a
civilian the whole town was one vast hospital or something

(54:52):
like that. So that I think also is something that
they really write about a lot and a lot of
them made connections with the soldiers and ended up writing
to the families and helping the soldiers kind of reconnect
or you know, or pass on news to their loved
ones or vice versa, helping loved ones who arrived in
town try to find either a body or you know,

(55:12):
a hospital bed with their loved one. And of course
communication at the time, you know, the telegraph lines have
been cut off, so it took a while to really
establish communication. But you know, for predominantly they're writing letters,
and so very few of these things have survived. But
the accounts are really amazing, and I especially love the
accounts of the kids because and most of them are

(55:34):
writing later, but they tend to be much more honest
because they're remembering it kind of in a more visceral way,
and in particular the accounts of Lincoln being here. One
of my favorite things is, you know, there's a handful
of accounts from kids who are maybe like between ten
and twenty who write about Lincoln, and what they are

(55:57):
telling you is so different from all the newspaper accoun
and accounts from older folks who are writing about the
speech and oh, we didn't like that he said this,
or you know that this part was really amazing, and
you know what, you know, Edward Everittt really spoke for
a long time before Lincoln. We were all really tired
and getting you know, the kids wrote about like what
Lincoln looked like and how he's like he seemed sad

(56:20):
like somebody said that like in an account, and and
somebody said his face was lined and worn, and you
could tell he was really like worn down, and like
you look at the photo that was taken of him
shortly before and you can really see that. But just
the perception of these kids seeing him and taking him

(56:42):
in like as a as this like godlike figure that
they've heard about for so long. People didn't really know
what the president looked like. I mean, I think about
that too. They might have had, you know, worthographs in
the newspaper, maybe a photo, but to actually to actually
hear him and observe his mannerisms, like this was totally

(57:02):
new for for ninety nine point nine percent of the people.
And every time we find an account where I read
an account of the Gettysburg address, I'm most fascinated by
how they are taking Lincoln in, Like what what are
they observing about him? Because that's really as close as
we'll ever get to understanding who he was.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
You say that, you know, it's it's it's a new thing,
you know, for for people to experience, you know, the
first time seeing hearing, you know, President Abraham Lincoln. I
don't know why it struck up, this this deep memory
that Joey and I both share. Joey and I one
time went to yea he knows, Joey and I both
one time went to a waffle house, which if you've

(57:44):
never been to a waffle house, just expect a men's
gas station bathroom that sells waffles. Okay, that was forgotten.
That all right, So now that.

Speaker 7 (57:53):
Little harsh, But that depends on which it's a waffle home.
This one, it holds a special a place in my
very clogged heart. But I actually showed a picture of
George W. Bush to our waffle house waitress and I
asked her a question. I said, man, have you ever
seen this man before in your life? And she says, no,

(58:15):
I don't think I have, And I said, well, mean either,
and like he had and like this was like what
Joey two thousand.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
And what like.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
It was about the second term.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
Okay, so like George w han't been at office that long.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Tunes.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
So yeah, as things stay the same, I suppose, But
I imagine that's got to be a usique experience to see
to see.

Speaker 5 (58:42):
Yeah, it's funny. That reminds me my friend Dolphrasinito, who's
a pretty well known historian author. He likes to show
people a picture of Eisenhower. He in particular, anytime he
meets a young person, he'll show them a picture of
Eisenhower and asked, you know who this is? In like
ninety percent of the time they don't know, and you
know it is. It's fascinating. I think I feel like

(59:02):
Eisenhower was so uh on the straight and narrow that
like no controversy that that that hurt him in terms
of like people knowing who he is, like, there's no,
it doesn't have the intrigue of like the Kennedys and
you know, but arguably he's just an incredible I mean,
if I could have, you know, an hour with any president,

(59:23):
I think Eisenhower would be really high on my list.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
You can say, you.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Could say that Eisenhower is almost iconic.

Speaker 5 (59:30):
Yeah, yes, we have. That's okay. I've never heard that
pun I've heard heard but.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
You've got the power from fifty three. There you go.

Speaker 5 (59:42):
That's great, that's great, freaking animateacs man.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
Hey, bo, you know what it's time for?

Speaker 1 (59:48):
I think I do? Okay, like a slug for this, Yeah,
a swig of deliciousness. History is is sho thing that
is just absolutely ridiculous, something that people get wrong. Maybe
there's a grand mythos behind something that is just absolutely rubbish.

(01:00:09):
It doesn't make any sense and it deserves to be
well bunker busted. So what is it about? What is
it about Gettysburg? What is it about the civilian aspect
of Gettysburg? What is something you want to debunk? Now?

Speaker 5 (01:00:22):
Oh my gosh, I'm gonna do too, But I'll make
the first one real quick. The first one's more technical.
I love the movie Gettysburg. But people come here and
they think that the cavalry like won the first day's
battle and that was it. Like the cavalry showed up
and they delayed the Confederates and then they saved the
you know, the battle for the Union, and Sam Elliott

(01:00:44):
came out and you know, pumped his chest and that
was that was that was the set up, the entire
thing for a Union victory. That is complete bs. So
I we're always telling people like and my colleague Tim
Smith or historians even more hard on the cave where
he's like nobody ever dies and they just carry around
giant butter knives, you know, and and and and try

(01:01:05):
to slash at each other. And you know, the cavalry lost,
like I think they had one killed, like in the
whole brigade, one of the two brigades or something. Nothing
against you know, their their their courage and but there
it's nothing like you have this slog with the Union
infantry when they arrive and you've got some of the
like the heaviest casualties of the battle happened within the

(01:01:25):
Iron Brigade when they you know, the battle's opening on
the first day of the battle. So without getting too technical,
you know, I love Sam Elliott, I love the movie Gettysburg.
But people are always, you know, they are they are always, uh,
you know, under the misconception that the cavalry had some
big role in winning the battle. The second thing, the
bigger thing. And I guess this can also be quick

(01:01:46):
is and with And I have colleagues who are in
this industry, so I'm not personally going to go after him.
But I've never seen a ghost.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Uh. There.

Speaker 5 (01:01:56):
I am always asked about the ghosts. And you know,
I've been in a lot of places that should really
have ghosts, Like I was in the seminary building that
was a massive hospital late at night, you know, almost
by myself down in the basement.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:02:11):
It's it's just nothing against people who believe in ghosts,
but I feel like I should have seen one by now.
I'm kind of offended if they do exist that that
I have not yet had an encounter.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:02:22):
But you know, you can come to Gettysburg. You can
do many things. There are ghost tours, uh virtually every
night intour in the peak of tourist season, and uh,
they will tell you a lot of stories that most.
You know, I know for a fact that they're they
work hard to make them up every year, and a
lot of them are recycled year to year. I've heard

(01:02:43):
people give you know, I know people who are very
smart who do have ghost stories, and they they'll take
it to their their grave. No pun intended that they
saw a ghost. But I I I'm waiting for my
ghost encounter I have when I when I see a ghost,
I'll come back on your show and I'll apologize for.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Maya the three gs, the three the three Cheese of
histal of Civil War historiography. Ghoules goes to get these
perse right, Yep, that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Yeah. I've never been never been too big on the
on the ghost thing. You're giving a battlefield to where
somebody's like, hey, look the meter's tickings.

Speaker 5 (01:03:23):
Oh well, let me tell I'm gonna tell one quick story.
I think you'll listen. Your listeners will enjoy it. We
have a lot of researchers come in to the Historical Society,
and over the years we've had some come in with
odd requests. We had a woman come in once and
she she said, I'm researching private I'm just gonna make
up a name, but it was like Private John Hillman
of the you know, fifteenth Massachusetts or something. And so,

(01:03:46):
you know, our historian Tim's like okay, and he goes
and he gets some books and he's looking him up
and he you can't find him. And he's like, okay,
well maybe the name spelled wrong. And he goes on
like the park Service website and he's searching for the
soldier and then you can't find it. So he goes
to the regimental history and he's like, oh, you know,
something must be wrong with the you know, the story.
And so he went back and he said to the
woman like, you know, I'm really having trouble finding this.

(01:04:07):
You know, do you have the unit wrong. Maybe it's
a different regiment, you know, did he really fight at Gettysburg?

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
You know here?

Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
And he gave her all the sources that he had
gathered like over the past, you know, I don't know,
fifteen twenty minutes you'd looked into it, she said, she said,
I don't know. The name came to me in a vision.
You know, I'm staying in this hotel and it's haunted
and and his name was was John Hillman. I'm sure
of it. And so you know, we've had we've gone
on kind of wild goose chase sometimes to to you know,

(01:04:32):
try to research these ghost stories. So we tend to
tell people now in our archive if they come in
that we do not research ghosts.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
I had to think my glasses off because I don't
think I heard you correctly.

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
Yeah, it's it's always it's that's not the stranger. We've
had a lot of strange research inquiries, but sometimes we
try to figure out quickly whether it's whether there's a
ghost component and that definitely impacts are you know, the
extent to which we try to, you know, help.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Out goodness goodness, Well it is time for that favorite
segment of our show. Andrew will just go ahead and
ask what's in your cup?

Speaker 5 (01:05:15):
I don't drink much, so I'd rather give some recommendations.
I drink, I drink tea, and I don't drink a
whole lot else. So there's not a yeah, there's oh
there you go, okay, yeah, a good camimeal tea, can
you know, help me relax after a long day of
ghost to research. But I would recommend though, if you

(01:05:37):
come to Gettysburg, there's a couple of places one is
absolutely legendary, the Dobbin House Tavern. They have an incredible bar,
incredible restaurant, really great food. It's a Gettysburg classic. It's
been in business since the nineteen seventies and it's in
the oldest house in our town that was built in
seventeen seventy six before the town even existed, and you know,
it is definitely a must see establishment. And also have

(01:06:00):
a brand new restaurant with an excellent bar called Sign
of the Buck. It's just less than a block off
of the town square, and they have all kinds of
really great cocktails. They have really good lunch and dinner there.
It's it's actually part of the Union Hotel, which is
is a gorgeous boutique hotel that's just been renovated and

(01:06:22):
it is very popular with tourists and just vacationers, anybody really.
And so those are the two places I love in Gettysburg.
There are so many options it's hard to narrow it down,
but those are my recommendations.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Joey, I ask you because I think you have a
very similar drink.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
I was gonna ask you because I wasn't, but yeah,
sure I'll go. Tonight's knowledge drop here is know that
you are a child of the universe from a tea bag.
But I'm having Yeah, it's uh kim Mill actually kim
Mill and vanilla. There you go.

Speaker 5 (01:07:04):
Wow that I should have given you a heads up.
That's a I got. I think the American Battleful Trust
makes a special tea too, that they gave me some
of it recently. It's I don't know if it's cam meal,
but I liked it. But I think it might have
been a green tea. Yeah, I'm a tea drinker. I
feel like a snob anytime I say it, but that's.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
No I'm I. I am on the the other side
of the brew. So like bo usually does the alcoholic side,
I do the non alcoholics. That's fine, and tea coffee.
Those are all brudrue. I'm not. I'm not out out
of line here, and help he gets he gets away
with it. About the show, I added it, I didn't

(01:07:44):
do what I want A little star at the bottom. Well,
we are talking about Getty's bird. We all know about
George Mead.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
So I had to pour me a glass of Viking's blood,
which is I.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Wanted bottles this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Sure alcoholists go to anonymous meetings. I don't, I just history.
This is my AA.

Speaker 5 (01:08:11):
They actually make a genuade white in Gettysburg, so you'll
you'll have to a white wine. Uh and ore jenuade.
You know she was shot and killed and you know
now she's on a bottle of wine.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
That's if that's how I'm to go. Here you go
not the street.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
But well, this has been really fun. I've enjoyed it. Bow,
I think we've had a good time. Andrew, thank you
so much. And of course, where can people find out
more about the historical society, how can they get involved?

Speaker 5 (01:08:45):
We actually have a pretty simple weblink. It's Gettysburg History
dot org. So if you check that out, you'll get
information about our museum, about our new museum, the Shriver House,
which is a museum that's been around for quite a
while but is now part of our network. And also
the Gettysburg Film Festival, which is all of that can
be accessed through Gettysburgh History dot org.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Awesome, nice, awesome, both were happy. Yeah, absolutely, it's a pleasure.
I think till next time, and we'll do this again tomorrow.
We've got one more episode left in the can I
think for this series and we're ready to rock and roll.
So again. If you want to hear all of these
all at once, become a member on the Biden Me
a Coffee page. You find the link down below. You

(01:09:29):
also find the link to the Adams County Historical Society
down in the comments section below, so be sure to
check them out and let him know the Humber History
sent you Bo Andrew. Till next time, cheerous.

Speaker 8 (01:09:42):
Folks, thank you whole crew.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
That Cole crew talking about the whole crew to remain
in cobbles