Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Look at that. Everybody does need homebrew.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
That's right. I realized that we should either have some
some libation company sponsor us hint hint to whoever's listening,
or we should brew our own stuff and then on
the on the label, perhaps we'll put the link to
an episode.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Like Q, you scan the model and it brings you
to an episode. Now, that would be cool. It's almost
like we're a marketable podcast and someone should get on
this already. Sorry, my ability and my marketing powers are
just not that. I'm not that capable. I'm sorry. I
(01:11):
can record the show, I can edit the show, I
could write scripts. I mean, I'm talented and I wear
a lot of hats, but marketing.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Is just one. Definitely, I can't quite get the runks onto.
We definitely went to school for history. Now, I mean,
there was a reason that marketing. Marketing is its own world.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
So those people, they don't sell anything. Yeah, somebody accidentally
almost sold me life insurance. I was like already, like
I was, I was buying it. I was almost there. Anyways,
this is not this is not what anybody came here for.
But you know, I thought you know, so we're recording
(01:54):
these out of order and then by the magic of editing.
It's like that time we went up to get to
Franklin and Jeff kept saying, we'll fix it in posts.
Don't worry what this is, fixing it impost. All of
these will come together through the magic of radio right
(02:15):
in a sequence of episodes that you people to listen to.
But I thought last night with John Tracy and talking
about Jim Winterman, I mean that that's a great story
and I don't want to give too much away, but
I thought the episode went really, really well, and it's
gonna really kind of be a great way to end
our discussions of Getty's bird.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
He left us with a recipe because I know our
YouTube folks can't really see the comments off of the
side of the screen, which is probably a good thing sometimes,
But we were left with a recipe for beef tea.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Did you try it? Did you make it?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
No? I had, but I have been perplexed all day long.
I've not been able to stop thinking about it because
it it scares me, it disgusts me. But I'm interested.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, you have my attention and my curiosity. Yes, yes,
both have been paid. So anyways, your listener, make sure
we're in viewer, because you're the important one in this
now because we need you to boost those numbers. Anyhow,
the series on Gettysburg is forthcoming. You know, it's kind
of rolling out bit by bit. This is going to
(03:24):
be the first episode, so you know, if you want
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(03:44):
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(04:04):
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here in just a little bit. And I think what
we'll do is we'll go to a commercial break and
we come back. We'll bring on our guests for tonight's episode.
How does that sound about perfect?
Speaker 5 (04:28):
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Part of your trip.
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Speaker 3 (07:20):
All right, and we are back, and let's go ahead
and bring on to the stage now, Melissa hacker Win.
Melissa is the marketing director for hey Bo. Marketing director.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Yeah, I've heard you talking about marketing. I'm like, marketing,
isn't it.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
It's the marketing director for the National Museum of Civil
War Medicine. Prior to that, work with the American Battlefield
Trust and at one point in time the Old the
Extinct now unfortunately history Net. But Melissa is a brilliant
public historian, an amazing photographer, and just all around good
person to have on your bus when you're with your
(08:03):
emerging Civil war bus tour, because you know, you're moving
so fast in those things and you never really stopped
to document it or think about it. And then you
get a giant Gmail file, a Google Drive file from
Chris mccowski that's got like seven hundred photos all from you,
a wonderful little like, oh hey, by the way, I did.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
That tour, so that sounds exactly right.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Welcome, Welcome to homeber History.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 6 (08:33):
I'm excited to be here and talk about Gettysburg and
photos and all those things.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Bo Let's uh, let's jump on in.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, I imagine that. You know, being in Gettysburg, you know,
is surreal for some people. I have yet to make
the pilgrimage I need to. I've been seemingly everywhere but Gettysburg.
So well, listen, tell her, I says what. I don't know.
What's what is cool about living or being around Gettysburg.
Speaker 6 (09:07):
So it has its own real feel to it.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
It has so much history.
Speaker 6 (09:15):
Of course, there's so many stories wrapped up in the
landscape itself. I'll never forget the first time actually went
to Gettysburg. I actually went about ten years ago, and
it was with the editor of Civil War Times magazine
and I had just started working on that magazine and
(09:35):
just driving around it, it felt so vast and confusing,
and you could kind of tell how much there was
there to know and experience, but I didn't really have
a grasp on all of the pieces and how they
fit together.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
And I was so.
Speaker 6 (09:58):
Excited to kind of learn how they all fel together
and to know the battlefield better. So for me, one
of the great things about being able to go to
the battlefield frequently is you know, just the better understanding
of what happened there, how the pieces fit together, and
(10:20):
this real majestic space, and just the carnage that happened there,
the strategy that happened there, the personalities that clashed there,
that were made and you know, taken from us there.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
There are so many things.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
In this three day battle that happened there. But also
the battlefield itself has its own history, which I think
is almost equally.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
As interesting as the battle history.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
You know, the memorialization of the battlefield, old the veterans
that went back there. It has so many pieces of
history for years decades after the battle, and just being
able to go there and sort of feel, which you
(11:16):
do when you're standing there amongst these things, the monuments,
the signs, the canons, you know, and then just the
landscape itself. Being able to stand around all of that,
you really do feel the history. I hear so many
people talk about their first introduction to Civil War or
(11:39):
how they became interested in the Civil War, and so
many of them are kids that went to Gettysburg or
saw Gettysburg, or you know, some piece of Gettysburg entered
into their life and that's what drew them to the
Civil War. So I think it really is just this
(12:00):
majesty about it, and it's to me fascinating to just
be there and experience that.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well that sounds awfully familiar, is you know? Anytime somebody asked, oh,
how did you get into Civil War histories? Well, you know,
everybody else got to go to Disney World, right, and
I went to I went to battlefields, So I guess
I was stuck with it. I was just cursed. I
don't know, yeah, thing, oh yeah, oh yeah. And the
(12:30):
thing that's really great, I think about a place like
Gettysburg or you know Westerners who will appreciate us saying this,
Vicksburg or even Shiloh. They're all protected by the National
Park Service. They're all places that have been preserved for
us as Americans to go and see where you know,
(12:50):
the decisive moments in our nation's history unfolded. And you
kind of alluded to that with the personality clashes and
the and the carnage and everything that happens there. But
there's also a whole, like another layer where you're drawn
just because of the place, just because of the enormity
of it. Yeah, you know, how can you stand you know,
(13:12):
a national monument as opposed to a national park, one
of the smaller kind of I'm trying to think of
one off the top of my head, you know, just
the kind of the blip on the radar parks, and
then try and compare it to a place like Gettysburg,
which is just so sprawling. You know, it's like going
to Shiloh and then taking a step over and going
(13:33):
to Chickamauga, Chattanooga, which is one of the biggest parks,
if not the biggest military park in the country, and
you're just you're overwhelmed by the size of it. Yeah,
how do you tackle Gettysburg? You know, it's just this
this you know, it's three days. But it's the only
battle that I've allowed to have a bookshelf in my
(13:58):
library room because everything else is like, you know, one
or two books on it is fine. I don't need
to know. But I feel like with Gettysburg, there's always
something else to add, There's always another way to look
at it. There's always another another aspect that we've just
overlooked or forgotten, or a piece of the battlefield that
doesn't get written about enough, So how do you how
do you try when you're there to make it connecting
(14:22):
or connective for you? God, that was a long question.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
No, I think that's that's actually I think how you
kind of have to approach the battlefield because it's so
big and because it encompasses three days, you know, I know,
I remember when I watched Ken Burns, how great he
wasn't you know breaking down the Battle of Antietam, you.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Know, and it's three battles and.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
You know, he kind of breaks it down and explains that,
and it's much harder to do that with Gettysburg. You know,
there's multiple if you break it down that way, multiple
battles on multiple sections of field on multiple days. So
it's very difficult to encompass everything that's going on, you know,
(15:11):
in that space.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
And again that's just.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
The battle, you know, there's so much more history involved
with it. So I really do think it is sort
of piece by piece. I think that's actually for me
one of the things that's been I feel very fortunate
that my real big introduction to the Battlefield of Gettysburg
(15:37):
was through the magazine, and we weren't ever really trying
to tackle the whole story of Gettysburg, you know, we
you know, we would do and I'm talking about Civil
War Times magazine and America's Civil War Magazine, which are
the two magazines I worked with had worked on at History,
(16:01):
and we were always doing specific you know histories, you know,
like we were we were working one point on a
story by Gary Adelman at American Battlefield Trust about the
Four Hills of Gettysburg. So you have to be focused
and then you you kind of find that piece of
the history. We did another piece about Coster Avenue, the
(16:24):
fight there and the brickyard and the mural, and so
then you kind of get immersed in that history. And
then you know, we did another piece about Culps Hill,
and then we did some more pieces about Culps Hill
after they did some of the rest or preservation work
there just recently, and so then you get that piece
(16:47):
and you just kind of piece by piece, or for
myself at least, piece by Pece have been able to
pull the battlefield together in really kind of digestible chunks,
so that when I'm there now that I have a
real experience with it because I really can understand what
happened over three days in different parts of the battlefield.
(17:10):
But I certainly didn't learn it all at once. I
didn't sit down and read, you know, one book and
understand that you know from front to cover whole Battle
of Gettysburg, you know whatever, Bruce Katten or something, you know,
and okay.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Great, I all is somebody somewhere who read Steven Sears's
Gettysburg book and was like, all right, I know everything
about it. Let's go. Yeah, and then need to bore
his family to tears driving through the park as he
tried to remember the pages of that book. And I'm
not speaking from experience or that's not me. That's when
I'm there. It's a guide, okay, licensed battlefield guides. That's
(17:49):
the only way to do it.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeahs in Gettysburg. And this is kind of something that
I noticed kind of just in my travels and especially
at areas where significant events happen in American history.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
It seems that the people of the town have this
uniqueness about them and the preservation of what happened at Gettysburg.
And I'm thinking particularly a couple of years ago, I
actually went to Boston, Massachusetts, and it just seem that
the people of downtown Boston seemingly just for the epitome
(18:27):
of what used to be colonial America, at least some
individuals who were stick in the head, like you know myself,
of course, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
But do the people in Gettysburg have that same uniqueness,
they have the sort of drive to preserve what happened there?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah, I absolutely think so.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
I think, you know, Gettysburg is a pretty small town
really when you look at it, and you know, it
really is sort of time capsuled, you know, during this period,
and it's for sure its biggest you know draw. Its economy,
(19:06):
of course, I'm sure is built around the tourism aspect
of Gettysburg, the battlefield, the tourism industry.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Of course, it's got the college.
Speaker 6 (19:18):
As well, and you know, some other aspects to it.
But I don't think you can be in Gettysburg and
escape Gettysburg.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
You know that what would happen there and why it's important.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
So I think there's a lot of dedication to what
happened there, and most of the business in town really
is is you know, wrapped up in preserving that memory,
helping people understand it.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
I mean, I find people to be very.
Speaker 6 (19:51):
Forthcoming and helpful, and you know, a lot of times
you can get into, you know, different parts of the
field and Civil War history especially, and people like to
tell you what they know or what you did wrong,
or you know what you don't know you know, and
(20:12):
I think you know obviously, I think the people of
Gettysburg could very easily do that. They're walking around in
that history, so but they're not. They're very welcoming. I
think they are really dedicated to keeping the history alive
as well.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
So I think it's a great community that does that.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I mean, it's been now several years since I've been.
Speaker 8 (20:36):
Back, but the kind of the vibe that you get
from the town is that it's it's a very modern
town in its like sense and sensibility.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
But then when it comes to preserving the battlefield or
knowing its history or being involved in its history, it
seems like they kind of have their finger on the
pulse of everything that's going on in the park and too,
Like I've never seen a group of people get more
riled up, more aggravated about things that happen at a
national park where oh, they're not going to get rid
(21:11):
of the beavers. And then all of a sudden, there's
like thousands of people in the Gettysburg NPS comment section,
they're just going mad about beavers. It's like, man, you know,
like we get it, there's another thing to be upset
about it. I'm positive of it. This is the thing,
and I'm local, lived here, my whole life type of thing.
And you see that in there. But you also see
(21:33):
like this, I think very personal love and almost like
an ownership like that. They're stakeholders. And it could be
because of what you said is the town kind of
financially is supported by people coming to the park. You
want to maintain and sustain that resource. So let's do
(21:54):
something fun.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
You go to Gettysburg with lots of groups. You know,
I've seen you on the American Battlefield Trust Tours. You
you know again following around Matt Akinson and Chris mckowski
tour has got to be a real hoot and a
half for just about anyone. Yeah, you know, you get
up to Gettysburg and all of a sudden you unlock
like the next layer of hoot and a half because
(22:17):
not only do you have like a Matt Akinson, but
you've got Gary, You've got Doug Down's, you've got all
these very Tim Smith all the different voices that are
like the Pantheon of Gettysburg. What's your favorite tour experience
public history experience where either a group that you've led
or been with or what have you.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Well, I would say.
Speaker 6 (22:42):
My favorite experience has been the Civil War Institute is
one of my favorite experiences up there. It's a pretty
I mean, it's it's almost feels like a family of
people who together. It's a kind of a longer conference,
(23:03):
so I think you spend a lot longer with people
when you're up there for it. And the tours are exceptional.
I feel like they're they're really well honed to different
subjects and I just think they've all been fascinating.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
My favorite tour, and it.
Speaker 6 (23:23):
Might be because I've done it multiple times, so it
kind of sticks with me, you know, is a tour
that I've done, first of well, with Civil War Institute
with Daniashoff, who was the editor of Civil War Times
magazine and now works with me at the museum, and
(23:44):
Jim Broomall doctor Jim Brummel, who was at the Georgetown
of Moore Center for the Study of the Civil War.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
But is now down at the University of Richmond.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
H They've they did a tour of Coulps Hill and
it was really fantastic to learn why the monuments are
where they are, you know, what the fighting was like
that happened up there, but the personal stories that go
(24:16):
with it as well.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And Culps Hill is.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
One of the only places on the battlefield where fighting
happens on all three days, so it really does encompass
multiple parts of the battle history for all three days,
so you really get kind of an overview of.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
It too, and that was my favorite for sure.
Speaker 6 (24:38):
Then we were also I've had multiple experiences on Culps
Hill that have been really fascinating that kind of go
hand in hand with that tour, which is one of
the reasons it's kind of one of my favorite parts
of the battlefield. First, they did the preservation work where
they took down lots of trees on that part of
(25:01):
the battlefield, and it was incredible to go there and
to be when they took those streets down, to be
able to see exactly how the battlefield I mean, and
it wasn't exactly how because of course there were a
lot fewer trees even then during the battle, but to be.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Able to get a sense of the battle lines, you know,
and for so long.
Speaker 6 (25:25):
I would drive through Culps Hill or you know, the
and the monuments just looked like they faced a line
of trees. And when they started to clear that section out,
suddenly you could see where the Confederate.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
Line was, that the Union line had been facing.
Speaker 6 (25:40):
And the battle started to make sense. And after doing
this tour, I understood why the regiments were placed where
they were, how thin the line was there, and the
you know, how people ended up on that part of
the battlefield, and to me, that was really.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Fascinating to know and to see.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
Then actually, one time we were there for the magazine
doing a story about some of the preservation work they
were doing, and they were doing some archaeology there and
it was incredible because it was like yellow flag, yellow flag,
yellow flag, yellow flag. They were pulling mini balls out
of the ground that had not been out of the
(26:28):
ground for one hundred and sixty years, and you know,
they kind of asked, do you guys want to try, and.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Of course.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
Yes, so yeah, absolutely, so they let myself and the
editor and we were with actually John Banks too, you know,
tried digging up the bullets and finding and you know,
holding a piece from the war that had just come
(26:59):
out of the place it landed in eighteen sixty three
for the.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
First time in one hundred and sixty years, So that
part of the battlefield to me has a lot of.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Meaning and I just think the stories there are fascinating.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
So any experience I have with that area has always
been really great.
Speaker 6 (27:23):
And again I've been on I had actually done that
tour at the Civil War Institute twice. So for me
it helps to you know, con you know, that repetition
really helps. I wish I could read a book and
then just walk on the battlefield and.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Say, you know, remever all this stuff or whatever, but.
Speaker 6 (27:45):
I need repetition. So for me, those things have been
really great. And again that conference I think is a
really meaningful one, but I think they all are.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
I've also really enjoy.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
You know, I mean, you know, Gary is a great
battlefield guide. And the other tours that I really enjoy
are the Image of War Seminar through the War Photography,
and that was probably my first tour tour of Gettysburg
was through that organization, and that's just a whole other level,
(28:24):
you know, obviously as a photographer myself and as a
photo researcher too, standing on the battlefield with they print
up these photographs in three D of the battlefield as
taken in eighteen sixty three, and you stand there with
your three D glasses and view the photo exactly where it.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Was taken in the spot. You know.
Speaker 6 (28:50):
They call it sort of a forty experience because you're
standing right where it happened.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
That was incredible.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
You know, it's really fun to see the battlefield through
another medium and to even try to understand that that
piece of it, the photography piece of Gettysburg and the
photography that happened at Gettysburg after the battle is again
(29:19):
its own complete history of and it really kind of
talks to human nature and what people are interested in,
and that I find fascinating, so that those tours are
always really fun too. I've been I think we've been.
I go to that seminar every year now and I
think we've been Insburg two or three times in the
(29:40):
last ten years. So never gets old.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
In the American Civil War has always been very, you know,
interesting to me because that's really for the first time
in American history that we see, you know, with our
own two eyes, the hells of war. You know. Yeah,
still photograph, you know, and I imagine you know, taking
similar pictures today, you know, versus these pictures in eighteen
(30:08):
sixty three, they still hold so much power. You know,
they say a picture's worth a thousand words, but I mean,
when you're talking, you know, July eighteen sixty three, I
imagine there are more than just a thousand, ye So
I imagine that's incredibly you know, special to you, you know,
as someone who you know is a you know, photography researcher,
(30:29):
you know, and and who looks into all these kinds
of things. And you know, according to Joey, you're quite
the photographer yourself. So you know, that's I imagine that's
got to be you know, hold a special place in
your heart. And so when you do give these tours
to a wide variety of different people, right, people come
from all walks of life to come see Gettysburg. Because really,
(30:49):
if anybody knows anything about the American Civil War, they
probably know bull Run, you know, and they may know
Gettysburg and mathematics coolhouse. Right, So somebody somewhere knows something
about Gettysburg. Right. What are some very typical questions that
you get from these you know, visitors to Gettysburg, I think.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
The typical questions.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
And in Gettysburg, of course, are people really trying to
do what we were talking.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
About all pieces together?
Speaker 6 (31:27):
You know, Okay, I understand that over there, how does
that fit with this? So because there's just so many
pieces to it, it definitely depends on where you are
on the battlefield about what kind of questions people are asking.
I know, specifically for you know, photography at Gettysburg, people
(31:52):
are interested in what the photographers were interested and what
they were going to the battlefield for. There of course,
are I think there were more than two hundred and
fifty photos taken of the battle battlefield after Gettysburg and
in the in those months following the battle, and so
(32:15):
people are interested to know why one photographer went to
one part of the battlefield and didn't go to the
other People I think have asked a lot of questions
too about well.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
There's a lot of people that ask questions about Joshua Chamberlain.
It's popular. And then also really talking a little bit
about you know.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
What some of those myths are not myths, but you
know the you know, those things that happened in sort
of the popular culture, and how do they are they real.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
You know, or.
Speaker 6 (33:00):
You know, what else happened here? I think again, you know,
to go back to the idea of when people start
to ask questions about you know, even like Little Roundtop
or Joshua Chamberlain. Of course those are very interesting because
of the Gettysburg movie, and so some people have a
(33:20):
lot of history based on popular culture, which I think
is great. I mean, I think Gettyberg is so great
because it pulls so many people into this.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Topic and people who who might end up.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
Being historians themselves. Again, you know, there's so many that
their stories started at Gettysburg. But also people who are
just interested in the surface of what happened here might
be interested in Gettysburg. And so I think some of
those things are really interesting, and people ask good questions about,
(33:56):
you know, those types of things again on and stuff
of places that aren't Little Roundtop too, they might I
think a lot of times people try, or some of
tour guides, historians public historians try to start talking about
why some of these places might even be more relevant
than Little Roundtop or what happened with Joshua Chamberlain. And again,
(34:21):
I think those stories are great. I think it's great
that people are interested in Little Roundtop because we can
talk about everything else because they got there because of that.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You said something in there that caught my attention. Bo
you saw me walk across the room to the shelf
of Shame. I think that's a good name for it
at this point. Yes, so you talked about like seeing
how one piece of the battle comes together, so then
everything else starts to make sense. So I thought what
we could do is show this, like in book form,
(34:55):
how this happens, because this is the easiest way to
trace it. And bo, I think, you know what it's
going to happen here.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
So I started out with this Gettysburg Second Day by
Harry Fans. Okay, like, oh wow, look at that. A
good overview of the second day. This is good. You know,
I can add that to my list. Oh now, you
know something really drew my attention. I never thought about
what's happening at Colps Hill and also at Cemetery Hill
at the same time. Okay, so let me get Harry
Fan's other book, Gettysburg Day two, Colps Hill and Cemetery Hill,
(35:25):
and it's like, oh, well, actually, you know what's really
fascinating is the action that's happening just away from Cemetery Hill,
and I need to see now the attack and defensive
Cemetery Ridge. So then you know, Ted Savus gets some
more of my money. And then I thought, actually, what's
really really fascinating to me is what's happening in the
Center Long Streets assault in the middle of the day
(35:46):
on the second day, particularly what's gone with the Causes division.
And I you know, I really like Barksdale's brigade, so
let me buy a book on Barksdale. Well, then you
buy one book on Barksdale and go Actually one book
is in enough to you buy a second one, and
then you buy third one, and now all of a
sudden you have another one on order right now, Mississippians
at Gettysburg. Thanks to our good friend and name drop
(36:07):
him out for like the fifth time on the podcast, Scott,
who finally is going to join us to talk about
his experience at Civil War Institute.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
I'm good, He's fun, right.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
But then I was like, well, if I know about
Barksdales Brigade, I need to know what happens with Joseph
Kershaw's brigade, And then what happens with Hood's Texas Brigade
or Texas Brigade and the Texans and his division, and
then oh my god, well what about laws and Alabamans.
So then all of a sudden, I've got the entire
Confederate attack pulled out, and I went, well, you know
(36:41):
now that I know this, So I read the entire
biography American scoundrel on Dan Sickles, and then I said,
the real heroes of the second Day Federal Artillery, so
I need to know all about them. So then I
end guns of Gettysburg, and I don't know why it's not unboring.
There we go, and then second one and you just
(37:02):
because you need to piece it all together. You need
to run these stories all together. The only way I
think to get like a total picture of it is
to immerse yourself in it. Be o there and walk
the ground and see read every different perspective that you can.
And when all of these fail, there is the fail
(37:24):
safe of the official records. So I think, to what you.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Just said about walking the ground is so true of Gettysburg.
Speaker 4 (37:37):
But all you know there's.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I think it's the universal rule. You have to walk
the ground.
Speaker 6 (37:44):
The terrain is so important and so unpredictable and hard
to describe. You know, it is so hard to describe
how quickly something comes into view out of you unless
you go through the undulating terrain of some of these
(38:05):
places and can really understand how, you know, thousands of
men couldn't see people firing at them, or you know
how that actually gets set up because the terrain is
either working in your favor or against it. And there's
(38:25):
no i mean, at the American Batfield Trust, we just
would always say there's just no substitute for the power
of place, just for that understanding. But again, when you're
standing at Gettysburg, you just feel it. You know, there's
a feeling of this sort of majesty of the place
(38:46):
and the history that just kind of hangs in the
air there and you can't replace that. And again, you
really can't replace the understanding that you get from literally
walking in exactly the same steps as those people did
on those days.
Speaker 4 (39:06):
I've been doing a lot of first day stuff.
Speaker 6 (39:10):
I just actually finished Dawes's Sixth from the Sixth Wisconsin,
his memoir, and then the new book on the Sixth
Wisconsin came out a couple few months ago by Jim Martin,
and so I've been kind of reading a lot about
six Wisconsin. I'm also from Wisconsin, so it's been very interesting.
(39:32):
And that's the same. Exactly what you're saying is how
I think people are able to piece this battle and
this battlefield together is whoa, this.
Speaker 4 (39:44):
Is really interesting.
Speaker 6 (39:46):
Now I want to know more about the second Wisconsin.
And wait, the seventh Wisconsin was in herbs Woods too. Wait,
I wants to want to find out how they got there.
And Reynolds was shot while he was placing the second Wisconsin.
Let me read everything about Renold. You know, you just
kind of go through all these pieces and start to
(40:06):
piece it all together, and which I think is extremely fun.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
But it's also a very expensive hobby.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
And it was expensive.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yeah, So bo before we kind of dive into do
you want to do photographs first? We want to boo
hiki first? But what are you thinking? I like, I
like photographs, all right, let's do photos. So we've got
this picture up right now. And dear listener, this is
the perfect reason for you to go over to our
(40:38):
YouTube channel. If you're already on our YouTube channel, this
is the best time for you to like and subscribe.
Be sure to hit that little thumbs down there and
subscribe to Homebrew History. But that way you can see
what we're talking about. But right now, we've got a
great picture taken by Melissa on the Gettysburg battlefield. We've
got what looks like a three Jordan's trifle facing out
(41:01):
over it kind of maybe is it dawn, kind of
the early morning image here. So you know, for the listener,
we have to super describe this. For the viewer, he's gone, yeah, okay,
we get it, Jack At.
Speaker 6 (41:21):
This is on Cemetery Hill and this is actually the
number of times I've been there. And I also like
to run, so I go running in the morning a lot.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
I have found that a.
Speaker 6 (41:35):
Cemetery hill is the perfect spot to catch the sunrise,
and so this day I actually went out there and
there was like there's also usually when the temperature is correct,
there's a mist that comes up around the field and
you can catch it for just a little while and
(41:56):
it's just stunning. And again, when you're there at that
time of day, it's very quiet and you just have
such a sense of peace and that the light you
can see. Actually, when I was kind of going through
my photos to pick out the few favorites, which I.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Call Sophie's choice, But.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
You know, I can see that I kind of am
drawn to the light that especially here and how it
hits the landscape, but also monuments, and this is one
of the best spots on the battlefield to hit in
(42:44):
the morning to get.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
That dramatic lighting.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
I could be a postcard.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
It feels like it's like the next cover of a
Hallowed Ground magazine from just if anyone you know is listening.
Speaker 4 (43:03):
I know a few people over there.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
So which one do you want next? Do you have
a choice?
Speaker 6 (43:13):
Well, I would definitely say maybe since we're on Cemetery
Eat Cemetery Hill, we could go towards the next one,
which is the Ohio Monument that's on Cemetery Hill. That
one that might be one of my favorites that I've
taken at Gettysburg. And it's because it this morning was
(43:34):
actually one of the ones where the fighters were burning too,
so that was extra hazy in.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Gettysburg.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
And again it's early mornings, so I was just standing
at the right spot and I thought, oh my gosh,
the silhouette of that monument is so dramatic and the
color because of the haze is so diffused, you know,
the lights diffused and the colors are muted, so nothing.
(44:05):
I remember I used to do a lot of family
photography and one year I was doing some Christmas card
photos and I think we had a hurricane warning or
something like that or you know, and so it was
super gray and cloudy outside. But I had, like I
(44:27):
had rescheduled this family a couple of times or something,
and so I show up and they're like, well, well,
we're so sorry it's not sunny, and I'm like, no,
this is the best light. You know, when you're photographer,
non photographers think that sunny days are the best days.
You get this beautiful sunlight, and that is the exact opposite,
(44:49):
because really what it does is give you harsh shadows.
Nothing is you know, your half your face is in light, half.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Of it is not.
Speaker 6 (44:58):
You can't put things next people because they create shadows
and uh, and it just kind of sharpens the colors.
So cloudy days are much better. And if it's going
to be sunny, sunny with clouds. So this this was
just one of those days where it was just perfect.
(45:20):
And again it was morning, it was quiet. I love
the Mountain range in the background, you know. Uh, and
again this is East Cemetery Hill. It's just a beautiful
place to go in the early mornings when you're at
getting Gettysburg.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
That's Ohio. That's Ohio Monument.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Oh all right, thank thank you, thank you. What else?
What do we want to hit next?
Speaker 4 (45:50):
Well, maybe we'll just go through the monument photos.
Speaker 6 (45:52):
But there's another one. Yeah, this is the first Minnesota monument.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
It's one of those personal favorites of mine too. When
you when you spend as much time on day two
as the book pile here is like, you know, you
just think about now and I think what's great about
your pictures is they reflect this incredible beauty and this
great you know, you're talking about the light and the
way it falls on the monument and all this stuff.
(46:19):
But this is a place where immense, immense suffering and
death and carnage unfolded, and yet one hundred and sixty
years later we have this, this beautiful marker and on
this beautiful field and captured. I'm just so so elegantly
for the eye. And it's a wonderful way for us
(46:41):
to see the beauty eventually that comes to these places
and to remember that at the core of it. But okay,
tell me all about my next new favorite monument here.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
I think so too. I love this monument.
Speaker 6 (46:55):
I actually like how the monument has actually.
Speaker 4 (47:01):
Built into it. You know, the soldier isn't standing there.
Speaker 6 (47:04):
The soldier is not at rest or he's moving.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
He's moving into battle.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
And it's right on the line where they did.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I was there for when the Liberty Rifles actually did.
Speaker 6 (47:18):
The recreation with the full number that was in the regiment,
and when they went down and then they bring back
the very few survivors. It's so dramatic. And to see
it exact again the power of place, to see it
exactly where these men ran in knowing that they were sacrificing,
(47:45):
that they were a sacrifice and but that was what
their duty was, was to sacrifice, to.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Slow down the fight, you know, but they did it.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
And so to see this monument every time I see it,
it's just, you know, it's so moving. And again because
the soldier on top is moving and kind of running
right into the field that they ran into, it's just
so dramatic. And again, this was another day when.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
The moon you can see was kind of out when
it longer than it.
Speaker 6 (48:25):
Normally had been, and I thought, oh, I got to
get the moon in there. And you know he's I
like the angles too, you know that he's it just
all sort of moves in the same direction over that
field where they went into sacrificially, but they did it willingly.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
And it's like thinking about mid nineteenth century early twentieth
century era on warfare, you know, because we have you know,
civil wars still you having you know, your lines of battle,
you know, and then the First World War kind of
developed into you know, more trench warfare. But I mean essentially,
once you get into no man's land, it's you know,
(49:04):
no man's land for a reason. And I don't know
if you can convince people of the twenty first century
to do that. You know, these are you know, men
of intensity. Uh And that's what this you know, Minnesota
monument is getting me is it's intense. You know, war
is an intense thing. But you know it is a
(49:25):
very beautiful, you know monument to to remember their sacrifice.
And it's something that I hope, you know, when people
see something you know like this, you know that they remember,
you know, all the blood that is shed at Gettysburg.
So that we can continue the American experiment today.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yea, and to bone and piggyback on you there, like
we'll put the link in Melissa. We run in similar
circles and no mutual friends. So the Liberty Rifles guys,
but they've been to Carter House, they've been to Carton,
so I know a lot of them, and that they
were there at Getterersburg. So we'll put the link to
(50:03):
some of their videos that they did when they did
the first Minnesota charge, because bo I don't I think
by this time you and I were both well out
of the hobby. But to have recreated the regiment man
to man and to go across the same ground there
is again talking about the power of the place, right. Yeah,
there's something about seeing them kind of disappear into the
(50:25):
tree and all of a sudden they're gone, just as
you know, any observer, you know, when Phil Scott Hancock
who sends them into action, would have seen them just
simply vanish from sight. We have the same we have
the same view, the same view.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
The worst field of dreams ever.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah, god, yeah, how about uh this one?
Speaker 4 (50:51):
Yeah, this is another one. This was I think actually
on the same.
Speaker 6 (50:55):
Day where this moon was really hanging around well into
the morning.
Speaker 4 (51:00):
When the sun was coming up.
Speaker 6 (51:01):
And I love this monument because he's taking like one step,
So I have multiple I don't know which monument this is,
but it is also on Hancock Avenue and there's a
big barn there and it's right by the Brian farm,
which is an African American who lived on the battlefield,
(51:24):
and well he lived there, you know, he so his
story is really fascinating too. This is right across the
street from that. It's again this like there's a bend
or a curve in the road and you just kind
of come up on this monument and across the street,
(51:45):
you know, from here, you know, you can't see, but
it's the field, and then across that is the field
of pickets charge, you know, and I really love that
from the road you're seeing this man moving away from you,
you know. And again, to me, it's just so incredible
(52:07):
to put this person in his space. And it's this,
I think, is such a common soldier monument to me.
Every time I see it, I just think about the
common soldier and how that common soldier story is so
important and that those are those are some of the
things that as historians and people in this field, we're
(52:30):
starting to talk so much more about, which I think
is so important is telling the common soldiers story, talking
about the common soldiers, their experience in.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
The battle after the battle.
Speaker 6 (52:43):
That's one of the things I think is actually really
interesting about this new six Wisconsin book.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
Is, you know, it's the long battle.
Speaker 6 (52:51):
It's the battle not just there, it's after, you know,
you go home.
Speaker 4 (52:56):
What's the battle like after that too?
Speaker 6 (52:58):
And for that you know, these regiments as a whole,
but the common soldier.
Speaker 4 (53:03):
By themselves as well.
Speaker 6 (53:04):
And every time I see this monument, it just feels
like it encapsulates that common soldier experience.
Speaker 3 (53:12):
To me, for what it's worth, I looked up what
monument it was by looking at the Brian farm. It's
one hundred and eleventh New York. Okay, for whatever that's worth. Yeah,
that's good to peek out on Google Earth for a second.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Sorry, I mean, I can imagine that as a unique experience.
And Joey and I his friendship was actually forged on
a Civil War battlefield.
Speaker 3 (53:35):
I think our friendship was forged over really really bad
like nacho cheese, and it was it was It was
an attendance. That's still the deal.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Joey came back from from a European trip and he said,
I'm gonna cut it out, and thank god, but Joe's
cooking skills have gotten extremely better since then. But the
first night he ever invited me over for a meal,
it was a because I'll never forget it, because of
the anguish that it caused me. That's good, Yeah, that good.
Speaker 3 (54:11):
Uh, the Hamburger helper, but I forgot the helper with
I forgot the hamburg.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
I think I think that needed to be. Hamburger helped
me bring it out back and throw it away. It
was it was a it was a schnitzel he tried,
and and it was a it was a German gravy
that he tried, and it ended up tasting pretty good,
but both he and I were sufferers of food poison.
(54:38):
And then we haven't looked back since.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
Away.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Sure will it will break here bona one of the
and and and then we're here.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
Uh now we have a podcast.
Speaker 9 (54:53):
Yeah that's good, tell us about what well, what were
the get out here?
Speaker 4 (55:01):
So this is a fall day. This is actually on
Munchauer's Hill.
Speaker 6 (55:06):
I believe it's called and it's right next to Round
Top and Little Roundtop, but it's really an extension of
Little Roundtop. And what I like about this is it
kind of gives you a soldier's view because it's grown.
Speaker 4 (55:19):
Up a little bit. But you really think about.
Speaker 6 (55:22):
All these different stories about the fighting in the cornfield
at Antietam, or you know, the pea orchard at Gettysburg,
and or on Little Roundtop with the rocks and the
foliage and.
Speaker 4 (55:40):
On Colps Hill. You know, everywhere.
Speaker 6 (55:44):
We experience it and we sort of look at it
from afar, you know, we're not standing right in the
middle of it. But this I was here, and this
was all kind of grown up, and I just thought
it was such a neat feeling of this sort of
view of the battlefield that where you couldn't see it,
(56:05):
you know, you were sort of being blocked or experiencing
the landscape around you. So I love skies, and again
you can kind of see the moon hanging around.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
So I love that. I love it when.
Speaker 6 (56:21):
You're able to sort of capture those two things together.
And to me, this was sort of capturing just that
other viewpoint of, you know, what the soldiers were experiencing
that we really don't because a lot of times we
don't leave the path or we don't go out into
(56:41):
the field. I mean sometimes that's advised, but well it's
definitely advised now.
Speaker 4 (56:45):
But you know.
Speaker 6 (56:49):
That they didn't have that luxury, you know, they had
you get up a little round top however, you know,
and you're going around huge rocks, you know, and huge
terrain or you know, the when your line is going
across you know the landscape you're going. You're supposed to
stay in formation as much as possible, no matter what
(57:10):
the obstacle is in front of you. And this to
me is just sort of like these are some of
the obstacle, but it's also very beautiful and you know,
again just has this kind of feel to me. I
like that part of the battlefield as well. Again it's
the sort of extension of little round Top. We really
understand the battlefield so much differently with hindsight than they
(57:35):
did at that time, you know, and to me that's fascinating.
I think watching our understanding of the battlefield is you know,
it's almost as important because again, this battlefield is it's
what draws many people just to the subject alone. So
(57:56):
our remembrance of what happened there and how how we
understand it. You know, one of the tours I was on,
they talk about how they didn't call it Little Roundtop.
They called it like little Rocky Hill or something. You
know that just even understanding how people at that time,
you know, they didn't call it the peach orchard, you know,
(58:20):
they didn't they didn't know little Roundtop like we know
Little Roundtop or the Angle or you know, they didn't
even call it eat Cemetery Hill, you know. But but
we know those iconic places so much differently than they do.
So this to me is more of a soldier's eye view.
Speaker 3 (58:40):
This is one of the things that uh, you know,
I always had like a puzzled look on my face
when when Eric Jacobson would say it. But he when
he was talking about his book and that he had
written with Rich Rupp, he talked about this conversation where
Rich told him, you know, we know more about the
Battle of Franklin than any soldier who ever fought at
the Battle of frank Yeah, because you have the whole
(59:02):
breadth of what's unfolding there, not just what the soldier
can see right in front of his file number, moving
across the battlefield that I imagine, you know, it's the
same thing, just times ten or twenty.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
Oh yeah, we got time for one more.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
Let's do this one.
Speaker 6 (59:20):
Okay, let's talk about Gibbon. This is given on Hancock Avenue.
So again this is the.
Speaker 4 (59:28):
Morning I love. I love the morning light at Gettysburg.
Speaker 6 (59:33):
This is another spot that's a really great spot to
catch it. I love the monuments and there's silhouettes on
the battlefield because without the monumentation, it's, of course it's
still the battlefield, but with the monumentation you have this feeling.
Speaker 4 (59:55):
Of the history that happened there.
Speaker 6 (59:57):
And I think the monumentation is fascinating too. There are
so many neat stories about you know, even the first
Minnesota monument. I think they had a different plan for
their monument. It got rejected. They had to go back
to the commission with new designs. I think each one
(01:00:17):
of those monuments has history as well. There's a Vermont
monument of course, I can't remember the number of it
right now, but you know where they're memorializing a commander
who had taken a battle axe, you know, into pickets
charge with him and.
Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
He really kind of did it out of a treasonous
act because he had been taken into custody because he
let his soldiers go for water.
Speaker 6 (01:00:48):
They locked him up, took his gun, and then he
kind of gets out. He says he's going to pickets charge,
grabs an axe and runs for it. So when they
did the monuments, they said, you can not put him
on this monument with.
Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
A battle axe.
Speaker 6 (01:01:02):
It's actually a treat in this act and you know,
holding this acts up, and so they weren't able to
do that, but instead they get a little hatchet laying
on the side on the monument. You know, there's so
many stories in the monuments themselves too, so I just
love their feeling on the battlefield and you really get
(01:01:24):
a sense of it.
Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
Look how much.
Speaker 6 (01:01:25):
Movement Gibbon has here, and you don't even have to
see him or the details. You just see a silhouette
and you can see his movement in this monument, and
I think that's amazing, you know. And one of the
things I'll say too about photography and monuments. This monument
(01:01:46):
and all of the ones we've seen, they're surrounded by
multiple other monuments. So photography lets you focus on just
just the one story. You know, it really kind of
lets you view the first Minnesota by itself, whereas on
the battlefield it's very moving, but it's surrounded by other
(01:02:09):
monuments too. So that's one of the things I love
about photography is it captures on one view that you're
looking at, one vision and one.
Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
Story right there.
Speaker 10 (01:02:20):
I know a lot of my Masonic brothers. We'll go
up to Gettysburg. There's a big Masonic monument over there
at Gettysburg as well. And every time people go up
there and there and they're a Mason somewhere, I always
take a picture with it and I'm like, man, I
really need to get up there.
Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
I'm saying road trip six.
Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
Yeah, where are you located? Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Okay, it's a twenty five hour drive. I looked at up. Wow,
it's a three day.
Speaker 4 (01:02:54):
That's a long drive.
Speaker 3 (01:02:57):
And Joe doesn't fly except you go overseas. Okay, that's it.
You're not getting me on an airplane, not without an FAA.
No thanks. I can say that on this podcast because
it's ours.
Speaker 9 (01:03:11):
Oh so, Melissa, what boy history is is is a
part that all good historians want to dispel.
Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Some myth something that is just absolutely incorrect, taken out
of proportion something that is just ridiculous. What is something
that you found, at least in your experience surrounding Gettysburg
that is just boohicky history.
Speaker 4 (01:03:45):
Ooh surrounding Gettysburg.
Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
Huh stumped.
Speaker 6 (01:03:51):
Yeah, well, I guess I would say that again, bringing
it back to sort of this understanding about you know,
the important spots on the battlefield. You know, there are
so many people interested.
Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
In Little Roundtop because of where it is.
Speaker 6 (01:04:09):
And then again in some place like Culps Hill, which
really doesn't get that much attention.
Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
What I think is interesting and sort of.
Speaker 6 (01:04:19):
And photography helps to bump this, which I think is
kind of cool, is that Culp Hill actually was one
of the most important and first visitor spots on the battlefield.
Now it's mostly ignored. It's hard to get to, but
at the time, right after the battle, it had so
much war damage in the trees and there were several
(01:04:43):
photographs taken by Matthew Brady on that part of the
field that it was a huge stop, and actually so
much so that people sold advertising on rocks at Culk
Hill and it was the I think it was the fifty.
At the anniversary, they actually had like a tour around
(01:05:04):
the battlefield and Culps Hill had multiple stops on this
tour that you had, you know, you were supposed to
go to. They told little vignettes of stories there. Little
round Top had zero. So again, I think it's fun
to sort of see the difference of you know, what
parts of the battlefield you know, we find important today
(01:05:25):
and you know which ones we're still paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Is it the turning point?
Speaker 6 (01:05:34):
Oh boy, well that's a long answer, but okay, well
I did hear you talking to important about this, So.
Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
My answer is probably different than Evans because.
Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
I don't know if it's a turning point, so to say,
is it important? Yes, of course, I mean I think
it really depends on how you define turning point. Again,
I think when we look back on it, we think
of it more as a turning point. And again the
same as we look at you know, we know these
(01:06:19):
iconic places like the pea torchard or the angle. At
the time, I'm sure it was monumental. So is it
extremely important? Yes, I mean it's also extremely important because
there are certain cores that are decimated. You know, they
restructure cores and you know, merge lots of regiments together
(01:06:42):
and stuff. Because of what happens there. I don't know
if it's a turning point though, but it may.
Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Be a turning point. But I think it is a
proving point that Bobby Lee can't fight the North.
Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Yeah maybe, I mean he came a good fight, but.
Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
For two days he did pretty well well.
Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Uh you know, it takes three in baseball to get you.
I suppose he.
Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Still would have had several more to go. That's one
of those things that I picked up from Matt Atkins
and somebody said, you know, they're questioning Lee's leadership, and
he did a whole tour on it, right, and he
he just rolled out with his I think it was
a great answer. He goes, you know, you questioned the leadership,
you have to question his opponent too, because for two
(01:07:31):
days he did pretty well and not mention the month
long campaign to get here, uh yeah, and to get
out of here. So he really checked. He does, Yeah,
lives to fight another day, goes on another two years,
mead As sends to command, stays in command of the
Army of the Potomac all the way through the end
of the war. Right. I'll say the same thing now,
(01:07:54):
Bo that I probably said during Evans episode and you
probably just listen, so maybe health I remember it. But
it's like the the idea of a turning point I
think has always been a little crazy, because I don't
think that. I wouldn't say Vicksburg is a turning point
in the same way I wouldn't say then Tilahoma campaign's
a turning point, or the Atlanta campaigns a turning point.
(01:08:14):
There are no turning points in wars. They're simply exiting phases,
new phase, old phase. We're leaving behind the army north
of Virginia and in the Army of the Potomac fighting
of eighteen sixty two in early sixty three, and we're
now shifting into what will become an all out slugfest
by the spring of eighteen sixty four. And it's another
(01:08:37):
mode of warfare. But it's not a turning point. So
I'm sure I said that that's not.
Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
But really so much because of Gettysburg as much as
it is.
Speaker 6 (01:08:46):
Honestly, grant you coming into command and having a different
approach to the war than had been in place before,
and that's not till eighteen sixty.
Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Four, So the war is changing. That's the whole idea.
Speaker 4 (01:09:00):
Yeah, I think so too. I think that's very true.
I think we did a piece for.
Speaker 6 (01:09:04):
Civil War Times, actually, and I think it was with
Jennifer Murray, Doctor Jennifer Murray, and about you know, is
Gettysburger turning point? And you know, we you know, we
talked a lot about how Yes, of course, there are
so many important things that happened there and changes that
are made, but are they turning points? I mean a
(01:09:25):
turning point also indicates that, you know, there was one
way that was happening and then we shifted massively from
it in a different direction. I'm not sure that that's
what happened. I absolutely think it was extremely impactful, you know,
(01:09:47):
and again in it in so many ways, but a
lot of those ways are in hindsight.
Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
I think that's a good way for us to go
in words or what's in our cut now.
Speaker 11 (01:10:01):
But I could talk about how Gettysburg it's it lives
in memory only because of November of eighteen sixty three,
when Lincoln goes there and places it in our memory forever.
Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
But whatever we could do that.
Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
There is there is. Oh yeah, Lincoln, he's a history.
Bo Oh, that's nice that he's got He's got Mary
Todd right there on his on his bicap.
Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Oh that's great, the unofficial mascot of the show.
Speaker 6 (01:10:34):
Yeah, very nice. Other, I'm sure I have a Lincoln somewhere.
Oh yeah, Lincoln. Oh very nice, nice and.
Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Very nice. Uh huh somewhere.
Speaker 4 (01:10:51):
I have.
Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
Had a Lego Lincoln. My brother in law built him
for me and then put it up on the shelf
and we moved it, dropped it. Oh no, and tragically
it was the back of his head that broke, and
I was like, oh God, I can't do this. So
I just picked I threw it. Most We've got a
(01:11:18):
little segment here on the show What's in your cup?
What's uh, what's one of your favorite places to grab
a drink or what are you drinking right now?
Speaker 6 (01:11:24):
Okay, well I'm gonna leave you with a recipe too,
So what's in my cup? I'm gonna say it's really wider,
but I'm gonna say it's Switchell.
Speaker 4 (01:11:33):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (01:11:35):
Witchel is like the gatorade of the nineteenth century, and
it has apple side or venegor in it. It has
sometimes you can have rum in it, but it also
has maple syrup or molasses. The apple sider vendor, of course,
is extremely important. It has lots of water and ginger
(01:11:57):
as well, so but lots of consumption of it because.
Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
It was used to really kind of like a gateoraid.
Speaker 6 (01:12:06):
You know, to help people replenish, you know, some of
the vitamins and minerals.
Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
That they needed.
Speaker 6 (01:12:14):
Also, apple cider vendor is great for kidney stones.
Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
I'm imagining right now Gatoride and Switchell are probably on
like alternating hands right now. And that that's Virginia.
Speaker 6 (01:12:30):
No, I would be remiss though talking about Gettysburg and
and and especially if I'm going to tag on John
Tracy's Letterman talk to not mention that we sell Letterman
Lagger at the National Museum of Civil War Medicine.
Speaker 4 (01:12:45):
Yes, it is a home brew. It is brewed for
for the museum, and you.
Speaker 6 (01:12:52):
Can get it online or you can stop in the
store and get it. And it is it's a great beer.
It's got Letterman's picture on the front, and it's only
sold at our museum by Antietam Brewery, So it's brewed.
Speaker 1 (01:13:04):
So, yes, the garnish is a little amputated finger.
Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
You're really you're bat in a thousand to night.
Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
All right, Well, what was in my cup was a
company that is called scatter Brain. They make a dark
chocolate whiskey.
Speaker 4 (01:13:24):
And you know, I was Hesitan.
Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
But you know what, if there ever was a dessert whiskey,
that's it. And now what's gone? And now I'm sad.
Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
Joe does not look convinced.
Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Definitely not. He's concerned with most of my drink joys
because I try at least to have a new brew
every time I come on here. But then when we
do four episodes in a week, I'm like, I'm gonna
just fix this. I'm gonna mix it. Know what, We'll
figure it out.
Speaker 4 (01:13:55):
I'm just gonna melt chocolate in my whiskey.
Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
And try that.
Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Just oh god, that just doesn't is it? Is it sweet?
Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Yeah? Of course it is. No, that's a dark chocolate sweet.
So it's not as like it's not like you dropped
a Hershey's chocolate bar in there. It's like it gives
a nice, like earthy.
Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
Afterto like you dropped a special dark in it.
Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
Yes, yes, yes, see she gets it. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
I I'm just here to disappoint you. It's green tea tonight,
but it's tailors of Harrogate which is the official teamaker
for the the Prince of Wales. So I have that
in my cup and it was great. It's a strawberry vanilla.
(01:14:47):
If you follow me on Instagram, you saw that. That's
where I have a little tea stand at work, and
that's on my tea stand this month. By a twenty
five pack of that. It will last me a week
and a half, two weeks, but at best highly caffeinated
man than I am. But Taylor's is on the on
the tap for on the brew for me tonight. Yeah. Anyways,
(01:15:10):
there's that, Melissa. This has just been great because it's
fun to just sit back and talk about but that
I'll talk about Gettysburger, talk about your experiences there without
diving into, you know, the nitty and the gritty and
getting fun even though a couple of your pictures brought
its way down in the weeds.
Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
That's what they do.
Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
Yeah, Oh my goodness, we've got so much bigger there.
There we go, all right, bo Melissa, thanks so much,
dear listener viewer, thanks for watching, thanks for following along
with us. And remember, if you subscribe to Homebrew History
on buying me a coffee, you get all these episodes
(01:15:53):
all at one fell swoop. I mean, what's not to
like for five bucks? I've whole dollars. That's nothing. Five
whole dollars. You can buy I don't know, a box
of tailors, the tea. You can buy a T shirt
with Abraham Lincoln's face on it, So you can do
(01:16:13):
anything for five bucks. But you could also throw five
bucks our way and be able to listen to this
all a once. So check out that, buy me a
coffee page, and remember, if you've watched it all the
way through, Like and subscribe. I can't say it enough.
Like and subscribe. You should really like and subscribe. Subscribe, subscribe, Like,
set your notifications, I don't care. Do whatever I do
(01:16:36):
your friends, But Melissa, thanks so much. Bo I'll catch
you tomorrow when we're back for yet another recording on Gettysburg,
and we will get that out to our listeners very
very soon. Until next time, cheers, everybody
Speaker 7 (01:17:05):
Whole crew, that whole crew talking about crew, and everybody
needs tumbles