May 5, 2025 • 45 mins
Graham Bandy, of Living Military History, joined Joey to talk about Harold Scrafield and his experience in the Second World War. This one has it all!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Whole crew, that whole crew, talking about whole crew, everybody,
the total crew, the history pod cask going back to
the past, when the little less past. It might leading
(00:34):
you a gas.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Are you fighting spies?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
But you'll never get tired of whole crew, that whole crew.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Top scholars on the show with Joey bo that whole crew,
whole crew.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hey there, everybody, welcome to another episode of Homebrew History.
It's just me solo. Bo is on yet again other
duties as assigned. He's out there brewing and crewing. I
guess I don't know. This is a terrible introduction if
I'm going to do this all by myself and certainly
not good at the solo act. So I need my
(01:22):
co host. I need Bo here. But we have a
special guest joining us today, and I'm going to waste
no time in bringing him on, largely because it's just
me right now. So real quick, we'll just go through
real quick and let you know that we've just finished
up our Canada at War series. You can now enjoy
that entire series online. Go to our YouTube channel, check
(01:45):
out the video version. You can listen to it wherever
you get your podcasts. But right now, we are joined
by Graham Bandy. He is the author of Nursing at
the front Line, a World War two diary from North Africa,
and it follows rif nursing orderly Herald Scrayfield throughout his war.
(02:05):
So Graham, welcome to your humbrew history.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Well, thank you very much for having me. Joe, it's
very nice.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Thanks for teaching me how to say Scrayfield.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
And at the end, you're ready. Worcester shre yes, two
countries separated by the same language.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So let's talk just a little bit. First off, congratulations
on getting a book out, because it's always it's always
the challenge, right, you right, and you right, and you're right,
and you end up with a manuscript that's just sitting
in front of you and what do you do with it?
So congratulations first and foremost, let's talk a little bit
about who Herald S. Grayfield was.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah, well scray or Harry, depends on as to whom
was to speaking to him. Was a chap who sort
of got left behind by the war. Initially, he was
a you know, somewhere high up in a gentleman's hairdressing
sundry's suppliers, and he was living in London at the time,
(03:06):
and he was in the Air Raid Precautions and the
chaps that used to go around blame whistles and making
sure we had the lights out and they were making
things orderly to get into the shelters when the bombing started.
But then all of a sudden they found him and
he was called up because he wasn't in a reserved
occupation and he came along to the RAF where he
(03:32):
was assessed by them. And because he's been in the
Air Raid Precautions or the ARP, he'd done a lot
of first dad certificates, so they said, aha, medical branch
for you. So he was sent off to go and
do some medical training to enhance what he'd already got,
(03:54):
and that's where he went in into the RAF. And
he was sent down to a place called Sidneuth in
the south of England on the south coast, and he's
played there for several months learning how to do things
and he passed and that's where where the story starts really.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And I think what kind of struck me by him
is when you think about the branch of the RA
if you instantly think of you know, fighter pilots and
armor command and you don't really ever think about a
medical service a detachment that goes along with it. It
just feels very much like an afterthought, and you go, oh, yeah,
(04:35):
I mean, I guess you have to have inter service
personnel too, So.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
We do now what we did have in those Each branch,
the Navy, the Army, and the Air Force all had
their own medical services. There's been a lot of over
the past few years, over the past twenty odd years,
there's been a lot of interplay, joint working. So but yeah,
it was every aready had their own service. And because
(05:01):
the RAF was the junior service founded on the first
of April nineteen eighteen out of the Rual Flying Corps
and the Royal Naval Air Service, they sort of just
copied everybody else and had their own medical service and
dental services and everything else.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
So you kind of mentioned a little bit about works
in the hairdressing supply company. He's got medical background. That's
what gets him into this position ultimately. But you know,
it seems like such a strange story to come across.
So how necessarily did you get access to his memoir?
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Well, I myself, I was a nursing officer in the
Army and registered nurse, and I did all sorts of
other things. And I was doing a bit of history
stuff some years ago, and I used to do some
living history I think you called it hardcore reenactment over there,
(06:02):
and I was doing one of my big medical display
and this lady came up to me and she started
asking me a few questions about what I was doing
and what my experiences were. I said, all right, thank you,
and then she wandered off, and about half an hour
later she came back said I've been looking for somebody,
and I think you're it. I went right, okay, thank
(06:22):
you very much, right, not knowing what was coming next, and.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
She said, are well.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
She was about seventy or something, so not quite my usual,
shall we say? And she said, well, my neighbor died
a couple of years ago. I said right. And he
said he had no family, there was nothing, but he
(06:52):
had a load of notes because he was in the
ref during the war. So that's nice. She said. He
wanted it turned into a book. I thought, right, I
think you're the person to do it. She said, come
round my house next week and come and pick it
up and I'll give you all the stuff. So off
(07:12):
I tootled the next week to this lady's bungalow and
she gave me a couple of battered plastic bags and
there are absolutely chock a block of photographs, unpublished photographs, notes,
handwritten notes, paintings that he had done through his time
(07:33):
in the Royal Air Force. And she said, there you go.
As long as you promised to make it, make it
into books. I said, yeah, I will. Unfortunately I moved
a few times with the services, I trotted around a
lot of other places, moved house about krikey more than
half a dozen times, and unfortunately they got buried into
(07:58):
the detritus. That sort of was always the boxes in
the garage. As you know, when you've moved, you've a
road of boxes in the garage. And I've mostly forgotten
about it. But I published my previous book with Pen
and Sword, which is about identifying and dating photographs cat
(08:19):
badges and uniforms for the British Army, Navy and Arif again.
And as I was getting that out and ready to publish,
I went in one of the boxes and I thought, oh,
and I pulled out these two plastic bags. By now
they're beginning to disintegrate because you know, we're ten to
fifteen years later, couldn't have been lost. So I had
(08:40):
a word with my editor at Pen and Sword. As
you read all that sounds interesting because not only did
he go up across Africa North Africa, not only was
he part of the liberation units in Tunis and then
into Italy, which is quite an interesting story, he then
gets sent to Yugoslavia as part of the Special Operations
(09:04):
Executive Medical Mission to look after the hearts and minds
of the Yugoslav Partisans. And that was a bit of
a selling point, I think, because it is something that
there's only one book that actually mentions the medical mission,
and that came out in about nineteen fifty four and
(09:26):
there's been nothing ever since. I went through loads of
stuff trying to find out about it, and it is
just mentioned in Passing and even in the Royal Alfith
Medical Services history books, which I've got here as well.
Because they came out so early after the war, it
was all still very what we call secret squirrel stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
You're dealing with a lot of could have just been
lost to history in a sense. Somebody who thought less
of screen story would have simply cast it aside.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
But houseparents into into a dust being.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Gone, amazing, amazing. So people talk about are one of
our great partners the beauty his story. You always mentioned,
you know, you have to make history by preserving history.
You've quite literally done that. You know, you've saved a
piece of that story, a piece of the Second World
War story that I think if we you know, you
(10:27):
move on past it, you move on past that generation
able to tell their own stories. We don't have that
physical document in front of us anymore. It's gone, It's
on forever. So I guess in a sense, thank you
for doing your part. But let's talk a little bit
about about Scray's wartime. Right. You know, once he finish
(10:49):
his training, what's his first sort of assignment.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Well, it's sent off to a lonely airfield in the
wilds of Lincolnshire. Lincolnshire in England is a very flat
and some say desolate place and the only thing you
can see for miles is the cathedral at Lincoln, which
was a Roman colonia at the time when they were here.
(11:15):
So these airfields were thrown up around the country and
off they all went, and they gathered together and they
became a mobile field hospital, which is exactly the equivalent
of your mobile army surge hospitals. Mash used to see
on the telly. And they were sent by ship in
(11:36):
a convoy to North Africa, to the far side of
North Africa towards Egypt, where they were disgorged after a
very eventful passage which you didn't really speak about, but
there was a few hints later on where he was
saying that when they came in the convoy, they lost
a couple of ships in the convoy and he was
(11:57):
down on one of the very lower decks under the waterline.
I mean, there was always very worried about it, but
he managed to survive. So off he went and he landed,
and they stayed for a couple of weeks while they
sorted everything else. And then there was a huge long
motor convoy where they went to the length, well the
(12:18):
breadth actually of North Africa, right away across into Tunisia
and to tunis and they were right behind the armored
first echelons that went in. This is where the this
was after the Battle of Casserine passed, which you probably
know about. And they were landed on the other side
(12:40):
of Africa as well, and they came from both sides,
and he got there and the first night they were
literally sleeping on the bodies of dead Germans which were
just a couple of feet below the ground. And of
course they were servicemen being servicemen, making jokes about it
and were saying, who hasn't changed their socks today because
(13:03):
you stink? But it's not it's just what was going
on beneath them. And then they were sent to Carthage,
the ancient city of Carthage or what was at one
point the ancient city of Carthage, and sent to the
the nunnery of the White Sisters.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Hmm, what's his So we know a little bit about
about the campaigns through North Africa, but what's what's happening
for him kind of day to day.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Day to day. I mean, it's something that doesn't I mean,
he really hasn't been touched before. I can't find anything
else on the day to day stuff. And what was
going on for nursing orders in a mobile field hospital.
There was only about three or four of them at
the time anyway, and the British forces all told so
basically what they do. They went into this nunnery the
Germans Adduce it as a cranken house German hospital, but
(14:01):
after they shoved all them out and tidied it up
and cleared it up and got rid of all the
septic pit that the Germans had dug, they turned it
to a very nice hospital. So basically you had one
hundred and fifty hospital set up which could be crashed
down at a moment's notice and moved, could be tented,
(14:22):
could it take over a large building or surrounded large
building with tents and stuff, very much like the field
and general hospitals that are provided by the forces today.
This was the sort of first wave which had been
(14:42):
done after the lessons learned not only in the Great War,
but also during the Spanish Civil War, which was a
very that was the first time they actually used refrigerated
blood transfusion lorries running up and down the lines, so
of course all that experience was brought into play everywhere else.
(15:04):
So he would be doing all the nursing duties that
were required because they had the doctors in the hierarchy,
and underneath the doctors there were two only two registered nurses,
who then diverged all the treatment to excuse me the
nursing orderlies, and they went on from there, and they
(15:27):
did all the work of nurses basically, although they weren't registered.
He was fam near fine lined between what he did
and what was going on, so you would see him
as something what we used to call stat enrolled nurses,
as supposed to state registered nurses, and they're sort of
(15:47):
just just below the registered nurses. They can sort of
do drug rounds and all the sorts of things like that.
But yeah, it was hard work, and of course they
had had full theaters, everything right down to the coffin
maker for those that didn't survive.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
So you mentioned kind of in passing the white sisters
who were they, Well.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
There are a bunch of French nurses that livid La
Blami Lavtierge even with French, and they had been there
for quite some time. There was a cathedral there and
some monks as well, which have been there since the
mid nineteenth century. They were a Catholic order who looked
(16:41):
after the people around there. They taught the children how
to do tasks and stuff that could actually find them
a job, like making carpets and stuff. There's a picture
in the book of the nuns teaching some of the
local orphans how to make how to make us so
they could make their own living. And they were a
(17:05):
small order, but very prominent, and some of them were
very educated as well.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Mh. And so he's working kind of hand in hand,
I guess with them, right, And.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
They're quite separate. Actually, they weren't a nursing order. I
was just an order of nuns who happened to meet
their Catholic nuns, the Roman Catholic nuns they were, so
they didn't really partake of the nursing side because I
decided they went to nursing order. So they just went
(17:39):
about their things and prayed for everybody all the way through.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
It's really fascinating, I guess because when you you know,
you think about the depictions of nuns and film, or
you know, you think about some of the stories that
you're told, right you see the you see the nun
of the church and best owned, and like that image
is here in your mind. Oh none, they must be
helping with the that's really that's a fascinating.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Yeah. I mean, if you think of the film The
Longest Day, You've got all those nurses marching down and
all the French blokes of tron said no, no, no,
go away. It's too dangerous, and they just went into
the building and started doing the treatments. We said, they're
all trained, trained nurses, but that's the difference because that
order was a nursing order, so they are, but you know,
(18:27):
they weren't in tunis Carthage.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
So he makes it through Tunisia's carnage Carthage and Carnage too,
I guess carnage at Carthage. But then we shift focus
out of North Africa into the Mediterranean, looking now at Italy,
Sicily and Italy. So what's his experiences like that way?
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Well, Sicily, they rather sort of skipped and when they
got to Italy three one mobile field hospital. Raf were
sent to a place called Bari, which is in the south,
lovely place, and they were put into an old school
which was right on the coast because the waves actually
lapped up on their own little private beach at the back.
(19:13):
There's some pictures in the book again about this. And
all of a sudden they were told they had to
go and do some top secret stuff and they didn't
know what they were talking about at that point. What
they did they went to the local airport or aerodrome
and they were meeting hundreds and hundreds of DC three
(19:35):
dakotas coming in air ambulances bringing in wounded partisans from Yugoslavia.
These were Tito's partisans who the Allies had thrown their
lot in with because there was a lot of rather
naughty things going on with some of the other groups
that were trying to take over the stuff there, like
(19:57):
the technics and the people. To one group, the Gestapo
even said how disgusting these people were with the way
they killed all the women and children. So when the
Gestapo say that somebody is disgusting and terrible, you begin
to wonder how bad this lot work.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So it does make you ask the question, really, it.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Begs the question very loudly, doesn't it. So So anyway,
Tito st with the Red starff and of course all
them were all of the opinion that this was all
the Russians providing all this service for them, and providing
all this medical of stuff and medical attention. And they
(20:45):
were coming in at night, initially before the mastership of
the air was taken, very dangerously, coming in without radar,
without auto pilot and stuff, especially on the old DC threes,
And they were coming in and they were bringing all
these wounded people in and there were the civilians started
appearing as well. One airplane was absolutely chopper of loads
(21:09):
and loads of babies, which is one of the chapters
in the book. And these have been evacuated out of
the firing line because these airfields in Yugoslavia were very
very close to the Front nine and they're all just
being shoved on there or whatever, whether they got pulmonary tuberculosis,
whether they got gangreen in their foot, whether that had
(21:32):
anything else going on, bullet wounds, pieces of shell going,
shell fragments, anything. They were just shoved into one of
these air ambulances and whisked across the Adriatic and dumped
down in Bari. Wasn't that far away. So they were
(21:52):
dealing with everything and including these babies, and they all
came in silently on this airplane. Then they bedded them
all down and they were all fed, watered, and before
they were sent off back through Italy somewhere a bit safer,
they gave him all their ration chocolate, they gave them
(22:15):
other stuff to eat and drink, and there was a
not a dry eye in the house, apparently according to
scrats stories. So that's how that all started they were.
Then he was sent off to a Spitfast squadron at Cana,
(22:36):
which was another sort of Carthaginian battlefield a bit further
across and up the country, where he was the medical
nursing nursing orderly to a doctor for the one of
the Spitfast squadrons operating from there, which is another story.
(22:58):
And he goes into all sorts of stuff in that
as well. So that's quite an interesting one because it
was also a photo reconnaissance unit, and he had all
these unpublished photographs of Monte Casino before during and half
of the bombardments, So all those pictures of Monte Casino
in the book, not seeing the last had died before,
(23:20):
exactly the same as all the pictures of all the parties.
As he took loads and notes and loads and loads
of pictures, and these are all totally previously unpublished.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
That's amazing. That's and again goes back to that idea
that if someone would have cared less, or cleaning service
would have come through. I mean that again goes right
back to that point. So it sounds like his experience
is really really varied, because one minute, he's caring for
children who might have tuberculosis, and the next second he's
(23:54):
caring for spitfire pilots in a photo reconnaissance unit. And
for all that he's sleeping on the buddies of dead Germans.
And you know, it just sounds like he's got so
many different stories to tell. What I think we'll do
is we'll take a quick break right now, and we'll
come right back with more Homer history, and we'll pick
(24:15):
up with the rest of Scrayfield's War and talk a
little bit more to Graham about some of the work
that he's done, and then where you might be able
to find out some more about Harold's Grayfield and about
his work. So let's pop off here and do a
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now is we'll make our way back to the show
(27:43):
after a couple more commercials that I don't produce, so
long they go, good stuff. Now we're back. Yeah, just
sit there idly and just wait. I'm sure that was
uncomfortable for you, because it's always uncomfortable for us.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I have a big mug of tea, so I'm fine,
thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
As do I. As do I. So let's let's kind
of finish up talking here just a little bit about wartime, right,
because you mentioned that he's helping out with Tito's partisans,
and he's helping treat some of these civilians. But then
Scray also goes to Yugoslavia, doesn't he.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
After the splitFAST Squadron was moved from can I, they
were told him and mac the doctor, that they were
going away to do something else, and they were told
they were going to Yugoslavia, and they sort of wondered
what was going on. So they had to load their
ambulance onto a landing craft and they were ferried across
(28:55):
the Adriatic to a place called Zara or Zada now,
where they unloaded and try to speak to people. But
of course nobody bothered to send anybody who could speak Yugoslav,
Serbian or else with them, So they were trying to
get away with pigeon English and the slattering of Italian
(29:17):
which they knew, and they found themselves there. Now, this
was a Brigadier Fitzroy MacLean was He had an idea
that we should support these Yugoslav partisans fighting the Germans
in this last bit of the war, because there were
some nasty things going on there.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
This nineteen forty.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Four forty four, yeah, forty three forty four by now,
and they were sent over there and he set up
this Hugo medical mission to Yugoslavia. Now fitz Ro McLean
wasn't just any brigadier. He was a brigadier in the
Special Operations Executive for the ES. I'm sure some of
(30:02):
people have heard of quite nicely. And as you know,
there are all sorts of secret squirrels, sneaky beaky people
who go off doing things. And you've got people like
Violet Tzabo doing see operations in Europe and all the
escape lines and all the sabotage lines that they were
(30:22):
doing over there, but in Yugoslavia they were doing the
Hearts and Minds mission, where they were there to look
after the Yugoslavian not just the Partisans, which a forward
unit actually did. And the book is actually referenced at
the back of my book saying to go and have
a reader this one, because it is very good. It's
(30:46):
very old. It came out just after the war, so
it's not a lot of stuff that you would expect
to see in there these days. But it's a very
underrepresented piece of history. And know as much about it
so Mission Rogers as it became known as after the
(31:06):
doctor who was writing the interior sometimes behind gannymed lines.
They did the first part of the trials and then
they were sent back to where Scray was and they
also had all these civilians piling him because you know,
there was nothing for them at that time. So Scray
(31:26):
in his spare time was doing loads and loads of paintings,
nice little color paintings, but only postcard size six four
inches postcards, which was doing in color, and they are
in the book, but unfortunately they're in black and white.
And if people would care to go to my website,
(31:47):
which is living Militaryhistory dot com, so that's all one word,
Livingmilitaryhistory dot com, you'll see there there's a little tab
to say a ref color going to that. All the
pictures are in high resolution and all the paintings are
in full color. One of them is the picture of
the convoy which he did going across the med and
(32:10):
is absolutely stunning, and it goes all the way through.
You've got pictures of the paintings of these partisans of
Vesuvius everything. It is a really really interesting. Of course,
these would have been lost to history as well, and
you know not naive paintings. They are competent ones. Especially
for the start. Of course, he was painting these by
(32:31):
just one paraffin storm lantern and that's all the light
he had when he was painting these in his time off.
And yeah, they're great. So I can commend to go
and have a look at them on my website and
you'll see how really good they are.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
You don't mind. I'm going to grow one right up
here real quick, just because I was able to be
able to see one. Oh, nort can't get it up.
It's the wrong So we'll go ahead. We'll do is.
We'll just put that link down in the description and
as we post this, well actually with your permission, we'll
use one of them as the thumbnail to get people
(33:11):
to click and see the video. Certainly, but then also,
you know, learn a little bit more about about stray.
So he's I mean, I'm just looking at the pictures
right now, and I'm kind of blown away right the
if he's just painting the things that are around him.
It's hard to think of the war as having these
kind of beautiful backgrounds to it. But you remember, this
(33:34):
is you know, people's home, This is a young land
that was lived in and farmed and everything, And here
he is, in the middle of the war being able
to make these wonderful creations.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
He's a wonderful price and it's very easy to do
norse paintings of it, but he's done very nice paintings
of it. Yeah almost well it's almost under fire.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, which is that's that's the amazing thing. Right. You
think about the sketch artists, and you think about, you know,
going back to the American Civil War, Right that my playground.
You think about like the Alfred Watts of the world,
able to to to just sit there and sketch so
quickly these incredible scenes of great battles. This isn't scenes
(34:25):
of great battles. This is scenes of great beauty, which
I think is that maybe that's that mind trying to
come away from the desperate nature of warfare.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
So he did cover up an awful lot. I mean,
there's just to get a few pen pictures of a
few of these individuals in the book. It was absolute
nightmare because he crossed referenced people and didn't say anything
much about anybody. H it is notes. The only one
he really spoke about was dying for Veronica Ashcroft, who
(35:01):
was the first female nurse to be parachute qualified in
the raf Arif Nursing Services, and she became a dame
and nurse to the Queen and all sorts of stuff.
But she was the only one who's actually named in
the end, but all the rest of them and he
(35:25):
he amalgamated some of the stories as well, so picking
them apart, trying to get through his I wouldn't say
he's trying to cover it up. I think he's just
you know, some bits he didn't want to remember, which
he alludes to at the beginning and other stuff. I
think he's just trying to save, you know, embarrassment for
(35:46):
people who might come along and read it afterwards.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
And is there any possibility too that he's just he
just conflates events almost just by accident and just sort
of run together.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Yeah, there's a few that run together. There's a Chap
South African Air Force Duckan who crushed lands and he's
in correspondence with the family, so obviously he knew him.
He nursed him, he looked after him, it was part
of what he was doing. But the records say this
(36:20):
Chap crashed in Florence and he just crashed. He wasn't
shot down, he wasn't shot up or anything. And all
this pilot's personal records state the same thing. All the
what we have over here is called the Commonwealth War
Graves Commission. They look after all the military graves. It's
(36:42):
a bit like bits of Arlington step in different countries
and all the rest of it. And that's odds with
the story. But the family actually confirm what Scray is
saying in their letters. So unless he was doing something
(37:03):
sacred screwing himself, there's Duckhan Chap, Michael Duckham, who knows.
But it's totally different to the official records.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Which is amazing. Again, another one of those details that
could have just been lost forever. You know, there's a
family that has confirmation of how you know their their
family members wore were experienced. Amazing Graham where I'm gonna
go ahead and take the banner off and switch screens
here and we'll bring the book up. There's the book
right there, nursing at the front line. You can pick
(37:38):
that book up where from.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Penn and Sword or the any of any good booksellers
in America or Egan, Amazon.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Okay, awesome, and it's out through Penn and Sword, right,
so we always love to promote a good Penn Sword book. Graham,
We've got a little segment on this show, and you
kind of already gave us a little hint of what
it is. But what's in your cup?
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Sorry? I have gray?
Speaker 3 (38:10):
See nice? Ye, I went for a nice minty green
tea today. Keeps things nice and fresh, and we're always
looking for good refreshment here on Homebrew History. That is
part of the show after all.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
With a nice little bit of berg in there just
gives it that nice little extra tiste.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Nice and I can't have to take tea advice, of course,
you are the professional here.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Use a kettle, don't use the microwave.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Always a kettle, Always a kettle. My living situation is
a little strange.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
And the people here they didn't have a kettle, and
I was like, wow, all right, well, I'm going to
go spend twelve dollars of my own good money to
buy something that you should have had from the outset,
because I don't understand this. You know, you have to
boil the water on the stove or put it in the
micro No, we're not doing this. We're buying a kettle,
so here I am kettle on and it's approved. It
fits under the sink nozzle, so we're good. We are
(39:13):
absolutely good there. I would feel remiss if I didn't
do this segment, but I feel bad because it is
Bo's segment. Is there something that you learned along the
way when you were writing Nursing at the front Line,
when you're uncovering uh Scray's story that was just Boo
Hickey and Boo Hickey is just it's just garbage history.
It's just a total myth. It's a total piece of
(39:36):
nonsense that you you wish you wouldn't have come across,
or you wish wouldn't be included in the story or
in the popular narrative, And you go, oh god, I
can't wait to drive this out.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
What's the book?
Speaker 4 (39:49):
I don't think I can say the stuff that actually
make me go, whoa general? Mark Clark?
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, what a complete well, I don't say I
can say it politely. What a complete piece of work
he was? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
He was? Who was? I'm actually a bit of a
Mark Clark apologist, I'll be honest. I feel like I
have to be in so many circles because everybody hates them.
So it's somebody's job to have to stick up for me.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I hated him, I just thought you what, Yeah, I
mean anybody else who didn't shock for what he did? Yeah,
I of the hook. So no, I'm not going to
talk to anyone disobeying orders saying I'm going to shoot
anybody who gets in more way British or alloyed. Wow.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I still there's there's the idea that you try to
win the war, but whatever means necessary, and it certainly
seems to fit Clark's bill. But as you know, you
keep reading, you keep learning more and more about the guy.
Definitely an egotist, but they are all are you have
to be are if you have a general star on
(41:06):
your shoulder or on your on your collar, you have
to be somewhat of an ego.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Yeah, But then again, not everybody had fifty two pas
with them all the time and correspond around.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Although there's a there's a hell of a lot of
pictures of patent and so it shows them all the
great one. Yeah, I mean all the great have their
press corps with them.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
But not as many as Clark.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
That we might have to disagree I think it's just
my personal like for the guy, and too, you know,
there's so many people that just don't like them, and
you know they always say, you know, thirty six the Texans, right,
I you know, maybe it's that I don't like Texas.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Maybe it's because he's an entire German divis several German
divisions escape instead of instead of closing the Pincers, which
was about three miles left to go, he decided to
put his troops out of the line and just run
for Rome.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Run for Rome. Yeah, and you know, there is there
a value in capturing wrong.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
And it was an open city.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
But as a press and as a drawing attention to
your theater, is there a reason to do it to
gain the notoriety, to put the attention back on your army,
That would be my argument for it.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah. But if you've got three miles to go and
you're closing a pincer or German divisions who were going
to escape and prolong the war for goodness knows how
many months up to a year, and allow them to
escape for your own vanity trip, causing how many civilian
(42:56):
Allied German deaths.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
There's a lot of there's a lot to be there's
a lot to be critical of Mark Carky, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Well, it's very interesting that the photograph of him coming
up the steps in Rome, which I'm sure you've seen,
I'm actually taken by a British photographer but called Alan Wicker.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
But he probably didn't feel too very comfortable being there
having that picture.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Yeah, Black Clark would only be photographed on one side
as well.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, that goes back to the ego I think. Yeah, yeah, uh,
But Graham, we wanted to thank you for coming on
the show, Togain, thank you very much for having me
joining us. And again, people can find the book on Amazon.
They're going to order it through a Pen and Sword,
and you can find Graham his website Living Military History. Uh.
(43:48):
And then where else can people get in touch with you.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Through my website? Okay, I do have family over there
in Pennsylvania and South Carolina's so big Hello to Yvonne
and her family and Lydia and all the rest of
them and all the other lot that I don't know about,
(44:12):
but I know they're out there somewhere because one of
the branches of the family went over there. So if
your name's Paxton. You may be a relative of mine
as well.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Well, Graham. We'll get this out very very soon, and
we'll get your American listeners to go out there and
pick up a copy of the book and follow along
with with Gray's War, but for Homebrew History on behalf
of bo who again out and about running around with
his head chopped off. I guess I want to thank
(44:44):
you for coming on the show, and thank you everybody
for listening. We'll catch you next time. Cheers. Thank you
very much for having me absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Whole crew, that whole crew, talking about whole crew and
reminding the total Brew a history pod past, going back
to the past with the little best past. It might
(45:26):
leave you a gas are you fighting? Spired? But you'll
never get tired of whole crew, That whole crew.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Top scholars on show with Joey Boo, That whole Crew,
Whole Crew,
Whole crew, that whole crew, talking about whole crew, everybody,
the total crew, the history pod cask going back to
the past, when the little less past. It might leading
(00:34):
you a gas.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Are you fighting spies?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
But you'll never get tired of whole crew, that whole crew.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Top scholars on the show with Joey bo that whole crew,
whole crew.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hey there, everybody, welcome to another episode of Homebrew History.
It's just me solo. Bo is on yet again other
duties as assigned. He's out there brewing and crewing. I
guess I don't know. This is a terrible introduction if
I'm going to do this all by myself and certainly
not good at the solo act. So I need my
(01:22):
co host. I need Bo here. But we have a
special guest joining us today, and I'm going to waste
no time in bringing him on, largely because it's just
me right now. So real quick, we'll just go through
real quick and let you know that we've just finished
up our Canada at War series. You can now enjoy
that entire series online. Go to our YouTube channel, check
(01:45):
out the video version. You can listen to it wherever
you get your podcasts. But right now, we are joined
by Graham Bandy. He is the author of Nursing at
the front Line, a World War two diary from North Africa,
and it follows rif nursing orderly Herald Scrayfield throughout his war.
(02:05):
So Graham, welcome to your humbrew history.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Well, thank you very much for having me. Joe, it's
very nice.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Thanks for teaching me how to say Scrayfield.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
And at the end, you're ready. Worcester shre yes, two
countries separated by the same language.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So let's talk just a little bit. First off, congratulations
on getting a book out, because it's always it's always
the challenge, right, you right, and you right, and you're right,
and you end up with a manuscript that's just sitting
in front of you and what do you do with it?
So congratulations first and foremost, let's talk a little bit
about who Herald S. Grayfield was.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah, well scray or Harry, depends on as to whom
was to speaking to him. Was a chap who sort
of got left behind by the war. Initially, he was
a you know, somewhere high up in a gentleman's hairdressing
sundry's suppliers, and he was living in London at the time,
(03:06):
and he was in the Air Raid Precautions and the
chaps that used to go around blame whistles and making
sure we had the lights out and they were making
things orderly to get into the shelters when the bombing started.
But then all of a sudden they found him and
he was called up because he wasn't in a reserved
occupation and he came along to the RAF where he
(03:32):
was assessed by them. And because he's been in the
Air Raid Precautions or the ARP, he'd done a lot
of first dad certificates, so they said, aha, medical branch
for you. So he was sent off to go and
do some medical training to enhance what he'd already got,
(03:54):
and that's where he went in into the RAF. And
he was sent down to a place called Sidneuth in
the south of England on the south coast, and he's
played there for several months learning how to do things
and he passed and that's where where the story starts really.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
And I think what kind of struck me by him
is when you think about the branch of the RA
if you instantly think of you know, fighter pilots and
armor command and you don't really ever think about a
medical service a detachment that goes along with it. It
just feels very much like an afterthought, and you go, oh, yeah,
(04:35):
I mean, I guess you have to have inter service
personnel too, So.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
We do now what we did have in those Each branch,
the Navy, the Army, and the Air Force all had
their own medical services. There's been a lot of over
the past few years, over the past twenty odd years,
there's been a lot of interplay, joint working. So but yeah,
it was every aready had their own service. And because
(05:01):
the RAF was the junior service founded on the first
of April nineteen eighteen out of the Rual Flying Corps
and the Royal Naval Air Service, they sort of just
copied everybody else and had their own medical service and
dental services and everything else.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
So you kind of mentioned a little bit about works
in the hairdressing supply company. He's got medical background. That's
what gets him into this position ultimately. But you know,
it seems like such a strange story to come across.
So how necessarily did you get access to his memoir?
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Well, I myself, I was a nursing officer in the
Army and registered nurse, and I did all sorts of
other things. And I was doing a bit of history
stuff some years ago, and I used to do some
living history I think you called it hardcore reenactment over there,
(06:02):
and I was doing one of my big medical display
and this lady came up to me and she started
asking me a few questions about what I was doing
and what my experiences were. I said, all right, thank you,
and then she wandered off, and about half an hour
later she came back said I've been looking for somebody,
and I think you're it. I went right, okay, thank
(06:22):
you very much, right, not knowing what was coming next, and.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
She said, are well.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
She was about seventy or something, so not quite my usual,
shall we say? And she said, well, my neighbor died
a couple of years ago. I said right. And he
said he had no family, there was nothing, but he
(06:52):
had a load of notes because he was in the
ref during the war. So that's nice. She said. He
wanted it turned into a book. I thought, right, I
think you're the person to do it. She said, come
round my house next week and come and pick it
up and I'll give you all the stuff. So off
(07:12):
I tootled the next week to this lady's bungalow and
she gave me a couple of battered plastic bags and
there are absolutely chock a block of photographs, unpublished photographs, notes,
handwritten notes, paintings that he had done through his time
(07:33):
in the Royal Air Force. And she said, there you go.
As long as you promised to make it, make it
into books. I said, yeah, I will. Unfortunately I moved
a few times with the services, I trotted around a
lot of other places, moved house about krikey more than
half a dozen times, and unfortunately they got buried into
(07:58):
the detritus. That sort of was always the boxes in
the garage. As you know, when you've moved, you've a
road of boxes in the garage. And I've mostly forgotten
about it. But I published my previous book with Pen
and Sword, which is about identifying and dating photographs cat
(08:19):
badges and uniforms for the British Army, Navy and Arif again.
And as I was getting that out and ready to publish,
I went in one of the boxes and I thought, oh,
and I pulled out these two plastic bags. By now
they're beginning to disintegrate because you know, we're ten to
fifteen years later, couldn't have been lost. So I had
(08:40):
a word with my editor at Pen and Sword. As
you read all that sounds interesting because not only did
he go up across Africa North Africa, not only was
he part of the liberation units in Tunis and then
into Italy, which is quite an interesting story, he then
gets sent to Yugoslavia as part of the Special Operations
(09:04):
Executive Medical Mission to look after the hearts and minds
of the Yugoslav Partisans. And that was a bit of
a selling point, I think, because it is something that
there's only one book that actually mentions the medical mission,
and that came out in about nineteen fifty four and
(09:26):
there's been nothing ever since. I went through loads of
stuff trying to find out about it, and it is
just mentioned in Passing and even in the Royal Alfith
Medical Services history books, which I've got here as well.
Because they came out so early after the war, it
was all still very what we call secret squirrel stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
You're dealing with a lot of could have just been
lost to history in a sense. Somebody who thought less
of screen story would have simply cast it aside.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
But houseparents into into a dust being.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Gone, amazing, amazing. So people talk about are one of
our great partners the beauty his story. You always mentioned,
you know, you have to make history by preserving history.
You've quite literally done that. You know, you've saved a
piece of that story, a piece of the Second World
War story that I think if we you know, you
(10:27):
move on past it, you move on past that generation
able to tell their own stories. We don't have that
physical document in front of us anymore. It's gone, It's
on forever. So I guess in a sense, thank you
for doing your part. But let's talk a little bit
about about Scray's wartime. Right. You know, once he finish
(10:49):
his training, what's his first sort of assignment.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Well, it's sent off to a lonely airfield in the
wilds of Lincolnshire. Lincolnshire in England is a very flat
and some say desolate place and the only thing you
can see for miles is the cathedral at Lincoln, which
was a Roman colonia at the time when they were here.
(11:15):
So these airfields were thrown up around the country and
off they all went, and they gathered together and they
became a mobile field hospital, which is exactly the equivalent
of your mobile army surge hospitals. Mash used to see
on the telly. And they were sent by ship in
(11:36):
a convoy to North Africa, to the far side of
North Africa towards Egypt, where they were disgorged after a
very eventful passage which you didn't really speak about, but
there was a few hints later on where he was
saying that when they came in the convoy, they lost
a couple of ships in the convoy and he was
(11:57):
down on one of the very lower decks under the waterline.
I mean, there was always very worried about it, but
he managed to survive. So off he went and he landed,
and they stayed for a couple of weeks while they
sorted everything else. And then there was a huge long
motor convoy where they went to the length, well the
(12:18):
breadth actually of North Africa, right away across into Tunisia
and to tunis and they were right behind the armored
first echelons that went in. This is where the this
was after the Battle of Casserine passed, which you probably
know about. And they were landed on the other side
(12:40):
of Africa as well, and they came from both sides,
and he got there and the first night they were
literally sleeping on the bodies of dead Germans which were
just a couple of feet below the ground. And of
course they were servicemen being servicemen, making jokes about it
and were saying, who hasn't changed their socks today because
(13:03):
you stink? But it's not it's just what was going
on beneath them. And then they were sent to Carthage,
the ancient city of Carthage or what was at one
point the ancient city of Carthage, and sent to the
the nunnery of the White Sisters.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Hmm, what's his So we know a little bit about
about the campaigns through North Africa, but what's what's happening
for him kind of day to day.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Day to day. I mean, it's something that doesn't I mean,
he really hasn't been touched before. I can't find anything
else on the day to day stuff. And what was
going on for nursing orders in a mobile field hospital.
There was only about three or four of them at
the time anyway, and the British forces all told so
basically what they do. They went into this nunnery the
Germans Adduce it as a cranken house German hospital, but
(14:01):
after they shoved all them out and tidied it up
and cleared it up and got rid of all the
septic pit that the Germans had dug, they turned it
to a very nice hospital. So basically you had one
hundred and fifty hospital set up which could be crashed
down at a moment's notice and moved, could be tented,
(14:22):
could it take over a large building or surrounded large
building with tents and stuff, very much like the field
and general hospitals that are provided by the forces today.
This was the sort of first wave which had been
(14:42):
done after the lessons learned not only in the Great War,
but also during the Spanish Civil War, which was a
very that was the first time they actually used refrigerated
blood transfusion lorries running up and down the lines, so
of course all that experience was brought into play everywhere else.
(15:04):
So he would be doing all the nursing duties that
were required because they had the doctors in the hierarchy,
and underneath the doctors there were two only two registered nurses,
who then diverged all the treatment to excuse me the
nursing orderlies, and they went on from there, and they
(15:27):
did all the work of nurses basically, although they weren't registered.
He was fam near fine lined between what he did
and what was going on, so you would see him
as something what we used to call stat enrolled nurses,
as supposed to state registered nurses, and they're sort of
(15:47):
just just below the registered nurses. They can sort of
do drug rounds and all the sorts of things like that.
But yeah, it was hard work, and of course they
had had full theaters, everything right down to the coffin
maker for those that didn't survive.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
So you mentioned kind of in passing the white sisters
who were they, Well.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
There are a bunch of French nurses that livid La
Blami Lavtierge even with French, and they had been there
for quite some time. There was a cathedral there and
some monks as well, which have been there since the
mid nineteenth century. They were a Catholic order who looked
(16:41):
after the people around there. They taught the children how
to do tasks and stuff that could actually find them
a job, like making carpets and stuff. There's a picture
in the book of the nuns teaching some of the
local orphans how to make how to make us so
they could make their own living. And they were a
(17:05):
small order, but very prominent, and some of them were
very educated as well.
Speaker 3 (17:11):
Mh. And so he's working kind of hand in hand,
I guess with them, right, And.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
They're quite separate. Actually, they weren't a nursing order. I
was just an order of nuns who happened to meet
their Catholic nuns, the Roman Catholic nuns they were, so
they didn't really partake of the nursing side because I
decided they went to nursing order. So they just went
(17:39):
about their things and prayed for everybody all the way through.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
It's really fascinating, I guess because when you you know,
you think about the depictions of nuns and film, or
you know, you think about some of the stories that
you're told, right you see the you see the nun
of the church and best owned, and like that image
is here in your mind. Oh none, they must be
helping with the that's really that's a fascinating.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
Yeah. I mean, if you think of the film The
Longest Day, You've got all those nurses marching down and
all the French blokes of tron said no, no, no,
go away. It's too dangerous, and they just went into
the building and started doing the treatments. We said, they're
all trained, trained nurses, but that's the difference because that
order was a nursing order, so they are, but you know,
(18:27):
they weren't in tunis Carthage.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
So he makes it through Tunisia's carnage Carthage and Carnage too,
I guess carnage at Carthage. But then we shift focus
out of North Africa into the Mediterranean, looking now at Italy,
Sicily and Italy. So what's his experiences like that way?
Speaker 4 (18:50):
Well, Sicily, they rather sort of skipped and when they
got to Italy three one mobile field hospital. Raf were
sent to a place called Bari, which is in the south,
lovely place, and they were put into an old school
which was right on the coast because the waves actually
lapped up on their own little private beach at the back.
(19:13):
There's some pictures in the book again about this. And
all of a sudden they were told they had to
go and do some top secret stuff and they didn't
know what they were talking about at that point. What
they did they went to the local airport or aerodrome
and they were meeting hundreds and hundreds of DC three
(19:35):
dakotas coming in air ambulances bringing in wounded partisans from Yugoslavia.
These were Tito's partisans who the Allies had thrown their
lot in with because there was a lot of rather
naughty things going on with some of the other groups
that were trying to take over the stuff there, like
(19:57):
the technics and the people. To one group, the Gestapo
even said how disgusting these people were with the way
they killed all the women and children. So when the
Gestapo say that somebody is disgusting and terrible, you begin
to wonder how bad this lot work.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
So it does make you ask the question, really, it.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Begs the question very loudly, doesn't it. So So anyway,
Tito st with the Red starff and of course all
them were all of the opinion that this was all
the Russians providing all this service for them, and providing
all this medical of stuff and medical attention. And they
(20:45):
were coming in at night, initially before the mastership of
the air was taken, very dangerously, coming in without radar,
without auto pilot and stuff, especially on the old DC threes,
And they were coming in and they were bringing all
these wounded people in and there were the civilians started
appearing as well. One airplane was absolutely chopper of loads
(21:09):
and loads of babies, which is one of the chapters
in the book. And these have been evacuated out of
the firing line because these airfields in Yugoslavia were very
very close to the Front nine and they're all just
being shoved on there or whatever, whether they got pulmonary tuberculosis,
whether they got gangreen in their foot, whether that had
(21:32):
anything else going on, bullet wounds, pieces of shell going,
shell fragments, anything. They were just shoved into one of
these air ambulances and whisked across the Adriatic and dumped
down in Bari. Wasn't that far away. So they were
(21:52):
dealing with everything and including these babies, and they all
came in silently on this airplane. Then they bedded them
all down and they were all fed, watered, and before
they were sent off back through Italy somewhere a bit safer,
they gave him all their ration chocolate, they gave them
(22:15):
other stuff to eat and drink, and there was a
not a dry eye in the house, apparently according to
scrats stories. So that's how that all started they were.
Then he was sent off to a Spitfast squadron at Cana,
(22:36):
which was another sort of Carthaginian battlefield a bit further
across and up the country, where he was the medical
nursing nursing orderly to a doctor for the one of
the Spitfast squadrons operating from there, which is another story.
(22:58):
And he goes into all sorts of stuff in that
as well. So that's quite an interesting one because it
was also a photo reconnaissance unit, and he had all
these unpublished photographs of Monte Casino before during and half
of the bombardments, So all those pictures of Monte Casino
in the book, not seeing the last had died before,
(23:20):
exactly the same as all the pictures of all the parties.
As he took loads and notes and loads and loads
of pictures, and these are all totally previously unpublished.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
That's amazing. That's and again goes back to that idea
that if someone would have cared less, or cleaning service
would have come through. I mean that again goes right
back to that point. So it sounds like his experience
is really really varied, because one minute, he's caring for
children who might have tuberculosis, and the next second he's
(23:54):
caring for spitfire pilots in a photo reconnaissance unit. And
for all that he's sleeping on the buddies of dead Germans.
And you know, it just sounds like he's got so
many different stories to tell. What I think we'll do
is we'll take a quick break right now, and we'll
come right back with more Homer history, and we'll pick
(24:15):
up with the rest of Scrayfield's War and talk a
little bit more to Graham about some of the work
that he's done, and then where you might be able
to find out some more about Harold's Grayfield and about
his work. So let's pop off here and do a
quick commercial break. Hey there, did you know that Homebrew
(25:35):
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can catch us every single week we'll do some series
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(27:22):
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Be sure to pick up a pack of stickers there
while you're at it. And I think what we'll do
now is we'll make our way back to the show
(27:43):
after a couple more commercials that I don't produce, so
long they go, good stuff. Now we're back. Yeah, just
sit there idly and just wait. I'm sure that was
uncomfortable for you, because it's always uncomfortable for us.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
I have a big mug of tea, so I'm fine,
thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
As do I. As do I. So let's let's kind
of finish up talking here just a little bit about wartime, right,
because you mentioned that he's helping out with Tito's partisans,
and he's helping treat some of these civilians. But then
Scray also goes to Yugoslavia, doesn't he.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
After the splitFAST Squadron was moved from can I, they
were told him and mac the doctor, that they were
going away to do something else, and they were told
they were going to Yugoslavia, and they sort of wondered
what was going on. So they had to load their
ambulance onto a landing craft and they were ferried across
(28:55):
the Adriatic to a place called Zara or Zada now,
where they unloaded and try to speak to people. But
of course nobody bothered to send anybody who could speak Yugoslav,
Serbian or else with them, So they were trying to
get away with pigeon English and the slattering of Italian
(29:17):
which they knew, and they found themselves there. Now, this
was a Brigadier Fitzroy MacLean was He had an idea
that we should support these Yugoslav partisans fighting the Germans
in this last bit of the war, because there were
some nasty things going on there.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
This nineteen forty.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Four forty four, yeah, forty three forty four by now,
and they were sent over there and he set up
this Hugo medical mission to Yugoslavia. Now fitz Ro McLean
wasn't just any brigadier. He was a brigadier in the
Special Operations Executive for the ES. I'm sure some of
(30:02):
people have heard of quite nicely. And as you know,
there are all sorts of secret squirrels, sneaky beaky people
who go off doing things. And you've got people like
Violet Tzabo doing see operations in Europe and all the
escape lines and all the sabotage lines that they were
(30:22):
doing over there, but in Yugoslavia they were doing the
Hearts and Minds mission, where they were there to look
after the Yugoslavian not just the Partisans, which a forward
unit actually did. And the book is actually referenced at
the back of my book saying to go and have
a reader this one, because it is very good. It's
(30:46):
very old. It came out just after the war, so
it's not a lot of stuff that you would expect
to see in there these days. But it's a very
underrepresented piece of history. And know as much about it
so Mission Rogers as it became known as after the
(31:06):
doctor who was writing the interior sometimes behind gannymed lines.
They did the first part of the trials and then
they were sent back to where Scray was and they
also had all these civilians piling him because you know,
there was nothing for them at that time. So Scray
(31:26):
in his spare time was doing loads and loads of paintings,
nice little color paintings, but only postcard size six four
inches postcards, which was doing in color, and they are
in the book, but unfortunately they're in black and white.
And if people would care to go to my website,
(31:47):
which is living Militaryhistory dot com, so that's all one word,
Livingmilitaryhistory dot com, you'll see there there's a little tab
to say a ref color going to that. All the
pictures are in high resolution and all the paintings are
in full color. One of them is the picture of
the convoy which he did going across the med and
(32:10):
is absolutely stunning, and it goes all the way through.
You've got pictures of the paintings of these partisans of
Vesuvius everything. It is a really really interesting. Of course,
these would have been lost to history as well, and
you know not naive paintings. They are competent ones. Especially
for the start. Of course, he was painting these by
(32:31):
just one paraffin storm lantern and that's all the light
he had when he was painting these in his time off.
And yeah, they're great. So I can commend to go
and have a look at them on my website and
you'll see how really good they are.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
You don't mind. I'm going to grow one right up
here real quick, just because I was able to be
able to see one. Oh, nort can't get it up.
It's the wrong So we'll go ahead. We'll do is.
We'll just put that link down in the description and
as we post this, well actually with your permission, we'll
use one of them as the thumbnail to get people
(33:11):
to click and see the video. Certainly, but then also,
you know, learn a little bit more about about stray.
So he's I mean, I'm just looking at the pictures
right now, and I'm kind of blown away right the
if he's just painting the things that are around him.
It's hard to think of the war as having these
kind of beautiful backgrounds to it. But you remember, this
(33:34):
is you know, people's home, This is a young land
that was lived in and farmed and everything, And here
he is, in the middle of the war being able
to make these wonderful creations.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
He's a wonderful price and it's very easy to do
norse paintings of it, but he's done very nice paintings
of it. Yeah almost well it's almost under fire.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Yeah, which is that's that's the amazing thing. Right. You
think about the sketch artists, and you think about, you know,
going back to the American Civil War, Right that my playground.
You think about like the Alfred Watts of the world,
able to to to just sit there and sketch so
quickly these incredible scenes of great battles. This isn't scenes
(34:25):
of great battles. This is scenes of great beauty, which
I think is that maybe that's that mind trying to
come away from the desperate nature of warfare.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
So he did cover up an awful lot. I mean,
there's just to get a few pen pictures of a
few of these individuals in the book. It was absolute
nightmare because he crossed referenced people and didn't say anything
much about anybody. H it is notes. The only one
he really spoke about was dying for Veronica Ashcroft, who
(35:01):
was the first female nurse to be parachute qualified in
the raf Arif Nursing Services, and she became a dame
and nurse to the Queen and all sorts of stuff.
But she was the only one who's actually named in
the end, but all the rest of them and he
(35:25):
he amalgamated some of the stories as well, so picking
them apart, trying to get through his I wouldn't say
he's trying to cover it up. I think he's just
you know, some bits he didn't want to remember, which
he alludes to at the beginning and other stuff. I
think he's just trying to save, you know, embarrassment for
(35:46):
people who might come along and read it afterwards.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
And is there any possibility too that he's just he
just conflates events almost just by accident and just sort
of run together.
Speaker 4 (35:58):
Yeah, there's a few that run together. There's a Chap
South African Air Force Duckan who crushed lands and he's
in correspondence with the family, so obviously he knew him.
He nursed him, he looked after him, it was part
of what he was doing. But the records say this
(36:20):
Chap crashed in Florence and he just crashed. He wasn't
shot down, he wasn't shot up or anything. And all
this pilot's personal records state the same thing. All the
what we have over here is called the Commonwealth War
Graves Commission. They look after all the military graves. It's
(36:42):
a bit like bits of Arlington step in different countries
and all the rest of it. And that's odds with
the story. But the family actually confirm what Scray is
saying in their letters. So unless he was doing something
(37:03):
sacred screwing himself, there's Duckhan Chap, Michael Duckham, who knows.
But it's totally different to the official records.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Which is amazing. Again, another one of those details that
could have just been lost forever. You know, there's a
family that has confirmation of how you know their their
family members wore were experienced. Amazing Graham where I'm gonna
go ahead and take the banner off and switch screens
here and we'll bring the book up. There's the book
right there, nursing at the front line. You can pick
(37:38):
that book up where from.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Penn and Sword or the any of any good booksellers
in America or Egan, Amazon.
Speaker 3 (37:50):
Okay, awesome, and it's out through Penn and Sword, right,
so we always love to promote a good Penn Sword book. Graham,
We've got a little segment on this show, and you
kind of already gave us a little hint of what
it is. But what's in your cup?
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Sorry? I have gray?
Speaker 3 (38:10):
See nice? Ye, I went for a nice minty green
tea today. Keeps things nice and fresh, and we're always
looking for good refreshment here on Homebrew History. That is
part of the show after all.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
With a nice little bit of berg in there just
gives it that nice little extra tiste.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Nice and I can't have to take tea advice, of course,
you are the professional here.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Use a kettle, don't use the microwave.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Always a kettle, Always a kettle. My living situation is
a little strange.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
And the people here they didn't have a kettle, and
I was like, wow, all right, well, I'm going to
go spend twelve dollars of my own good money to
buy something that you should have had from the outset,
because I don't understand this. You know, you have to
boil the water on the stove or put it in the
micro No, we're not doing this. We're buying a kettle,
so here I am kettle on and it's approved. It
fits under the sink nozzle, so we're good. We are
(39:13):
absolutely good there. I would feel remiss if I didn't
do this segment, but I feel bad because it is
Bo's segment. Is there something that you learned along the
way when you were writing Nursing at the front Line,
when you're uncovering uh Scray's story that was just Boo
Hickey and Boo Hickey is just it's just garbage history.
It's just a total myth. It's a total piece of
(39:36):
nonsense that you you wish you wouldn't have come across,
or you wish wouldn't be included in the story or
in the popular narrative, And you go, oh god, I
can't wait to drive this out.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
What's the book?
Speaker 4 (39:49):
I don't think I can say the stuff that actually
make me go, whoa general? Mark Clark?
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (39:58):
Yeah, yeah, what a complete well, I don't say I
can say it politely. What a complete piece of work
he was? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
He was? Who was? I'm actually a bit of a
Mark Clark apologist, I'll be honest. I feel like I
have to be in so many circles because everybody hates them.
So it's somebody's job to have to stick up for me.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I hated him, I just thought you what, Yeah, I
mean anybody else who didn't shock for what he did? Yeah,
I of the hook. So no, I'm not going to
talk to anyone disobeying orders saying I'm going to shoot
anybody who gets in more way British or alloyed. Wow.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I still there's there's the idea that you try to
win the war, but whatever means necessary, and it certainly
seems to fit Clark's bill. But as you know, you
keep reading, you keep learning more and more about the guy.
Definitely an egotist, but they are all are you have
to be are if you have a general star on
(41:06):
your shoulder or on your on your collar, you have
to be somewhat of an ego.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Yeah, But then again, not everybody had fifty two pas
with them all the time and correspond around.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Although there's a there's a hell of a lot of
pictures of patent and so it shows them all the
great one. Yeah, I mean all the great have their
press corps with them.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
But not as many as Clark.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
That we might have to disagree I think it's just
my personal like for the guy, and too, you know,
there's so many people that just don't like them, and
you know they always say, you know, thirty six the Texans, right,
I you know, maybe it's that I don't like Texas.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Maybe it's because he's an entire German divis several German
divisions escape instead of instead of closing the Pincers, which
was about three miles left to go, he decided to
put his troops out of the line and just run
for Rome.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Run for Rome. Yeah, and you know, there is there
a value in capturing wrong.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
And it was an open city.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
But as a press and as a drawing attention to
your theater, is there a reason to do it to
gain the notoriety, to put the attention back on your army,
That would be my argument for it.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah. But if you've got three miles to go and
you're closing a pincer or German divisions who were going
to escape and prolong the war for goodness knows how
many months up to a year, and allow them to
escape for your own vanity trip, causing how many civilian
(42:56):
Allied German deaths.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
There's a lot of there's a lot to be there's
a lot to be critical of Mark Carky, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
Well, it's very interesting that the photograph of him coming
up the steps in Rome, which I'm sure you've seen,
I'm actually taken by a British photographer but called Alan Wicker.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
But he probably didn't feel too very comfortable being there
having that picture.
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Yeah, Black Clark would only be photographed on one side
as well.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, that goes back to the ego I think. Yeah, yeah, uh,
But Graham, we wanted to thank you for coming on
the show, Togain, thank you very much for having me
joining us. And again, people can find the book on Amazon.
They're going to order it through a Pen and Sword,
and you can find Graham his website Living Military History. Uh.
(43:48):
And then where else can people get in touch with you.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Through my website? Okay, I do have family over there
in Pennsylvania and South Carolina's so big Hello to Yvonne
and her family and Lydia and all the rest of
them and all the other lot that I don't know about,
(44:12):
but I know they're out there somewhere because one of
the branches of the family went over there. So if
your name's Paxton. You may be a relative of mine
as well.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Well, Graham. We'll get this out very very soon, and
we'll get your American listeners to go out there and
pick up a copy of the book and follow along
with with Gray's War, but for Homebrew History on behalf
of bo who again out and about running around with
his head chopped off. I guess I want to thank
(44:44):
you for coming on the show, and thank you everybody
for listening. We'll catch you next time. Cheers. Thank you
very much for having me absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Whole crew, that whole crew, talking about whole crew and
reminding the total Brew a history pod past, going back
to the past with the little best past. It might
(45:26):
leave you a gas are you fighting? Spired? But you'll
never get tired of whole crew, That whole crew.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Top scholars on show with Joey Boo, That whole Crew,
Whole Crew,
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