How can we force our message on the vulnerable? A Government case study | Maintaining Frame 178

The absolute state of the NSVRC. Programs that participated in the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative (SADI) assessed how effective they were at serving various groups of survivors, including men and boys. When programs ranked groups in terms of how well staff thought they were serving them, men and boys regularly ranked at the bottom of all groups. The SADI helped programs learn that sexual assault specific services need to integrate trauma-informed and anti-oppression frameworks that address the unique and multi-faceted needs of many different survivors (including male survivors who had not been reached previously by their services) and to prioritize skills such as active listening, empathy, building rapport, empowerment, and collaboration.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So how do I log into a Grock Allison.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello, everybody, welcome to Honeybager Radio. My name is Brian
with Allison, and this is maintaining frame number one seventy eight.
How can we force our message on the vulnerable? A
government case study? Yeah, sorry, Alice, you just started talking
as I switched scenes.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So my apologies. So essentially what this is is a
couple of days ago. I actually it was yesterday, brother,
It might have been. It doesn't matter. I was in
it as usual, discussing the sexual assault statistics that people
don't want to talk about, which is, of course, male
are female on male sexual assault and this particular organization,

(00:43):
the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, which sort of sounds
like it's government based, but apparently, according to its disclaimer,
the content on this website is provided for informational purposes only.
While some of the materials and blah blah, is this
maybe supported in part by federal grants. The views, findings, conclusions,

(01:04):
and recommendations expressed are solely those of authors. You're not
necessarily yeah, yeah, yeah, So I don't think this is
actually a government organization, although it is sort of portraying
itself using the acronyms that are associated with a lot
of the criminal and general population surveys of these issues,
I originally thought because they kept getting cited by GROC,

(01:25):
and I was like, well, is this a study like
a because you have the National Intimate Partner in Sexual
Finnce Survey that's put on by the CDC, which is
an actual study. And I was like, well, is this
a study? And I find out no, it's just a
clearinghouse for data. But as I delved deeper into it,
because I was actually having a conversation with GROC, and
the conversation I was having was how if feminism says

(01:50):
it's about equality but doesn't measure the men's side, how
can it say it's about equality?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:55):
And I was having this conversation, I was getting GROC
to estimate how much effort feminism puts into measuring the
male side of the equation, because if you're going to
say that you know, X or Y or X is
always greater women's oppression is always greater than men's, then
you sort of have to measure men's side. And you, honestly,
if you're going to be a genuine and or you know,

(02:17):
set of organizations with integrity. You should probably measure both
sides with equal amount of rigor and be very transparent
about how you are determining how you're waiting each men's
issues versus a woman's issues, et cetera. So I asked
GROC how much effort does feminism put into understanding and

(02:39):
recognizing men's issues, and it came back with an astounding
number of ten to twenty percent. And I was looking
at this, and I was saying, is this I don't
think that the twenty percent of feminist funding goes to
analyzing men's issues. And I dug deeper in with GROC,
and I found out that it had lumped in and

(03:00):
initiatives for men to take responsibility for violence against women
as a men's issue, and I pointed out, please don't
lump in initiatives to get men to take responsibility for
being perpetrators with initiatives that help men when they're victims
of domestic violence and sexual assault, et cetera. And then

(03:22):
it went back through and it gave me like five percent.
And I'm like looking at this, and I'm like, what
is this five percent? And I drilled down more into
this and I found this set of I guess procedures
or expectations. It's called the SAD, which is the SAD.

(03:46):
I do you have the there's a little bit of
a little bit of information on the Working with Male
Survivors of Sexual Violence page, and we can go through that.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Sexual assault demonstration initiative that's SAD. Yes, So what do
you what do you want me to display?

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Okay, let's go through the Working with Male Survivors of
Sexual violence. This is one of the five percent that
GROC said that of feminist funding that is devoted to
male survivors. So I wanted to look through it because
it's really interesting and I think it's going to be
enlightening to you guys what they're actually doing with And
it's not just male sexual assault survivors. It is all

(04:28):
sexual assault survivors, but but it's particularly egregious when it
comes to male sexual assault survivors. So let's just take
a look. And incidentally, I got I ground Grock down
further by too about I think two percent, and then
I asked GROC, Okay, so this two percent is just

(04:50):
feminist initiatives, which means that they are helping male survivors
in the context of what they call a gendered narrative.
So in other words, the prior already isn't helping men
with these problems. The priority is making sure that these
problems are seen within a gendered context. So we all
know what the gender context is. Men have to take

(05:10):
unique responsibility for sexual violence investic assault because feminists theorize
their conjecture or allege that men use these things to
uphold patriarchy. It's going to be extremely difficult to hold
onto that ideological framework if we recognize that women are
equally likely to be sexually violent and engage in domestic violence,

(05:31):
because you know, how can patriarchy maintain its grip over
women if women are engaging in the very actions that
give patriarchy its grip towards men. So anyway, this is
their framework. And I got grocked down to about two percent,
which was, as we all know, bullshit. But at least
I can point out that spending two percent to measure

(05:54):
one side when you're when you're trying to declare that
the other side is greater, is disson And then I
finally got Grock to admit that feminism is a cult.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Okay, so what do you want? Right? So what are
we looking at what am I doing?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, sure, let's see what they have to say about
male survivors of sexual violence the National Sexual Violence Resource Center.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, so working with male survivors of sexual violence. The
tools in this project will help you understand how male socialization,
so the way men are socialized impacts the stigma and
reaction to sexual violence. They will help you consider how
to reach and engage men who need healing from sexual violence.

(06:41):
They will help you map out potential partnerships in your
service area. Finally, they will give you guidance on creating
sexual assault services that meet the needs of male survivors.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Okay, that's what they say in their first paragraph. Sure,
but let's go in and just keep going down because
these are their various initiatives. Let's keep going down because
then we get into the meat sidey thing.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
And also, for the record, I looked it up and
the National Sexual Violence Resource Center is not a government entity.
It's a nonprofit organization. But it's a division of another
organization called Respect Together that was found in the year
two thousand with initial funding from the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention under the Violence Against Women Act. So

(07:27):
the Violence Against Women Act is kind of like at
the bottom layer of this. So you could say that
if it turns out that this is going to be
just about women, I think it kind of comes that's
like the the well spring right of this. So just
telling you guys, like where the connections are at, right.
So once again, that's The National Sexual Violence Resource Center

(07:52):
is a nonprofit that got founded in two thousand with
initial funding from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
under the Violence Against Women Act. It was part of
a thing called Respect Together, Respect one way. Yeah, respect
one way. Respect.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
So essentially what this is is, oh, well, you know what,
let's just let it speak for itself. Continue.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
So Lessons from the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative on Male Survivors.
Programs that participated in the Sexual Assault Demonstration Initiative SAUDI
assessed how effective they were at serving various groups of survivors,
including men and boys. When programs rank groups in terms
of how well staff thought they were serving them, men
and boys regularly ranked at the bottom of all groups.

(08:37):
The SAUDI helped programs learn that sexual assault specific services
need to integrate trauma informed and anti oppression frameworks. Anti
oppression works okay, that address the unique and multi faceted
needs of many different survivors, including male survivors who had
not been reached previously by their services, and to prioritize

(08:59):
skills such as active listening, empathy, building, rapport, empowerment, and collaboration.
It's a lot of commy words as you dive into
exploring how to serve male survivors, your program must first
have a deep organizational identity as a sexual assault center
slash provider for survivors.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
So they're targeting they're basically targeting organizations that have helped
survivors for a while. Let's just let's let's say this
what this is. This is a top down initiative to
target these organizations for pushing their propaganda. Their are their
intersectionality cast system in which men are the universal scapegoat. There,

(09:38):
they are the untouchables, they are the bottom cast. And
and you'll do you think that I'm you think I'm exaggerating. Well,
we'll go into what the sadi? The Sadi?

Speaker 2 (09:48):
This is just sort of the same. This is what
you need. Not sure where to start? Okay, so how
about this part? Why men?

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, sure, let's go for Wyman.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
What a question to ask why men.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
I'm under attack, but the beast okay, what Jojo.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Is just sleeping.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
He is the goodest of He's.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Meditating, he's charging his chi. So why men? In this project,
we're focusing on improving services for male survivors of sexual violence. Well,
at least we acknowledge them. A complicated topic in the
context of the women's movement. Michelle Dixon Wall, why even
bring that up? Why even say that? Why? Why? Like
you can just we're focusing on improving services for male

(10:29):
survivors of sexual violence end of sentence, But then they
have to add a complicated topic in the context of
the women's movement.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Because it always has to take place within that context.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, yeah, what is he?

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Why does it have to be a gender narrative? Why
does there have to be a gender narrative around a
sexual assault? Why is that necessary? Why is that obligatory?
Why has nobody ever said, you know, maybe there isn't
and actually tested for that, because that would be the
null hypothesis for the feminist assertion that sexual assault is gendered.
But nobody tests for that because scientific grigor and integrity

(11:04):
are completely absent in these programs. Everything is ideological possession
and dogma yep.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
All right. Michelle Dixon Wall laid out some thinking about
how to contextualize the need to talk about men's access
to services at sexual assault centers textuals. Yeah, to contextualize,
we need to, like, let's prepare our minds for this
concept that's so crazy and wild and out there, like

(11:35):
you mentioned and boys being the victims of sexual violence.
I mean, who knows, right, it's wild. It's just wild
and random. This is the.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Stuff that your taxpayers are going to tax dollars are
going to pushing ideological viewpoints on survivors of sexual assault.
You think that people would be like these people? Okay,
you know what, let's just continue. I'm gonna know I've
read ahead. I have spoilers.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Guys. Yeah yeah, but okay, there was no period after article,
but I'm pretty sure that's the end of a sentence.
Let's unpack that men's access to violence against women's services.
Oh oh, maybe there's a summary here, but I'll open
this in a new tab if we need to look
at it. Dixon Wall argues that while shining a spotlight
on the needs of male survivors, we can keep a
gender framework of sexual violence but also make it more nuanced.

(12:22):
Rigid gender expectations can hurt any of us in different ways,
including men who learn to keep harm bottled up inside
and not seek help. Never heard, never never heard that
before the lessons We've learned from the history of the
what did they literally write that the lessons We've learned
from the history of the sexual assault.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Movement quoted as a credible freakin' resource for male victims
of sexual assault like this, this is considered credible. None
of this is credible. These people do not put the
healing of male victims sexual assault before their ideological focus.
And also the the the individuals involved in these organizations.

(13:08):
You know that they talk to YouTube about its algorithm
and they deboost content like ours that calls them out
for their circular reasoning like and and their their their
lack of scientific integrity. And also the fact that you know,
when you go into a program that is supposed to
be about a survivor of a traumamatic event overcoming that

(13:30):
trauma and start pushing your rhetoric into it, that is unethical.
There's no reason to offer these to demand that these
services be within a context, gendered context or her story
or feminism, but of course feminism into okay, let's let's

(13:54):
and incidentally, they talk about, oh, it's STI it's stigmatized
for men to think of themselves as sexu. So let
us let us make this a gendered issue. Let us
continue to focus on this as something that happens to women,
and when it happens to men, it's because patriarchy is backfiring. Therefore,
they sort of did it in themselves. To quote what

(14:14):
is his name, the great Erotica writer Chris Tingle, when
men get raped or when men get raped, it is
them pounding their asses with their own asses.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yep, pounding the ass with his own ass.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yes, that is the feminist framework for male rape victims.
And now we've just gotten completely deboosted because I use
the R word, which is worse.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Than any other story. All right, all right, So the
lessons we've learned from the history of the anti sexual
assault movements can be applied with nuance to people of
all genders impacted by sexual violence. Notice when they say
all genders, they're basically using everything they can to make
men the smallest, the smallest possible subset of that. That's

(15:00):
the purpose of this multi gendered thing. It's about excluding men.
The same limiting, rigid gender roles that normalize violence against
women and non binary people keep men from seeking services.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
So because of men's violence against women and non binaries,
they don't seek services because, you know, because the appropriate
victims of violence are women in non binary So in
order to seek services, these patriarchal male sexual assault survivors
would have to conceive of themselves as being subject to
the very violence that they're supposed to inflict as patriarchal overlords.

(15:34):
Do they say this the actual male sexual assault survivors.
The reason why, you know, the real reason why you
experience trauma is because you are being subjected to a
powerlessness in your patriarchal overlord mindset, and you don't like
it because it makes you like women and non binaries.

(15:55):
Do you get that, sir? You think that you are
traumatized by your forced sexual incident, but what you're really
traumatized by is the fact that you've had a window
into the experience of women and non binaries. Do they
say that to these guys like that?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Why is? And Okay, I'm gonna stop getting irate. You'll
notice that they did say that these programs, the Saddie
program is ranked men rank it the lowest. Essentially, it
also causes when you read the information about it, it's
also caused counselors to quit programs as well, which is insane.

(16:36):
So this program, which is for whatever reason, they're targeting
male sexual assault survivors with it, Male sexual assault survivors
say they don't like it, and counselors who apparently work
with male sexual assault survivors are just assault survivors in general,
have quit because of this program. And it's like, and again,

(16:58):
this is top. This is feminist organizations at the very
top telling people who are trying to work with vulnerable
individuals dealing with trauma what they need to say and
do in order to push feminism. If you are not
sick to your stomach by this, you're not a human being.

(17:19):
Well I shouldn't say that, you would just become completely indifferent, Fine, whatever,
But this is sickening. This is a sickening abuse of
vulnerable people who come to an organization to try to
get help, and instead they get propaganda shoved up every
orifice and a re traumatizing frickin' everywhere feminism goes. It

(17:40):
makes everything worse when it comes to survivors of these issues. Okay,
let's keep going.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yep, I could just all right, Okay, so let's see.
I just want to make sure I know where I
left off. Men can play an important role in interrupting
sexual harassment. What okay, let me start the wait, let's
start over. We know that sexual violence impacts people of
all genders and backgrounds. There are men who commit acts
of sexual violence. Men can play an important role in

(18:08):
interrupting sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviors. And in addition to
these important truths, it is also vital that we recognize
that men experience sexual violence and need healing from.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
The other men. Mostly that's what they can recognize.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, like Joe Rogan, right, that's that's the only rape
that he acknowledges is when it is like prison rape,
and of course that cancels it out too. It's like, well,
it's other men. So who cares to two wrongs equals
to who cares? Or just one wrong against the wrong
kind of person equals to who cares.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
This is in their segment on how to serve male
victims of sexual assault. So to this Sadie program, when
it infests an organization that's trying to help sexual assault survivors.
It goes in and it says, we know that sexual
violence impacts people of all genders and background. There are
men who commit acts of sexual violence. Men can play

(19:02):
an important role in interrupting sexual harassment and it so,
how does that inform your therapy sessions with a sexual
male sexual assault survivor? Are you like a little timmy,
you've been you've been graped by your teacher since you
were eleven? But can we discuss how you can interrupt
sexual harassment of women? First?

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Like?

Speaker 1 (19:24):
How does this? And I wonder how the manipulation, like
the situation where they MIA is all over me because
I'm really a I'm not I'm I must be giving
off a lot of adrenaline hormones. So she said, I
need to I need to soothe you and destroy the
thing that's upsetting you. Well, unfortunately you can't, little little voidcat,

(19:46):
you cannot destroy the thing that's upsetting me because it
is bullshit. Ideologically possessed.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
She wants she might be able to, Yeah, okay, maybe
you could got like powers that have yet to be awakened.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
Probably Okay, well all right, so this, let's just keep going,
all right.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Men can play an important role in interrupting sexual harassment
and inappropriate behaviors. And in addition to these important truths,
is also vital that we recognize that men experience sexual
violence and need healing. In this project, we bring a
gendered analysis of the impact of sexual violence to the
understanding that male survivors have not been served. Well, we
invite you to recognize the complicated identity of male survivor.

(20:31):
Complicated guy, It's complicated, guys.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
It's complicated because just call.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
It what it is. No, no, no, no, that's a little
dangerous for our brand.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
So it's inconsistent with feminist theorizing on these issues. So
it's complicated and need nuance.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
We got to add a bunch of nuances, which is basically.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Believing believing to contradictory things at once. One that men
are under as victims of sexual assault, They are underserved
by society, and they are subject to greater amounts of stigma,
which is what all the findings show. Right, men are
under report, they are not believed when they're when they

(21:08):
tell as children, even as children, if they are sexually
assaulted by women, services alienate them, and obviously they're obviously
the uh what is it? The National Sexual Violence and
Resource Center doesn't think that male sexual assaults survivors are
alienated enough, so it's promoting this new initiative to essentially

(21:30):
deal with sexual ass assault survivors within the context of
feminist ideology, which doesn't can't. Feminist ideology is incompatible with
recognizing the full extent of male sexual assault by women
or the full extent of domestic violence by women. It's incompatible,
and they have a huge invested motive in denying it

(21:52):
and trying to recontextualize things. So essentially what they're saying
is there are a bunch of foxes debated how chickens
who want to remain alive are incompatible with the fox agenda.
So how do we square this circle? Slick, Well, something's
gotta give, and it ain't feminism. How is it that

(22:15):
this shit can just continue and people aren't up in
arms over it?

Speaker 2 (22:19):
Well, people aren't aware of it.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, until until.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
It until they have to deal with it.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yes, until until they have to deal with it. And
then they are like, well, men just commit suicide because
they're weaker than women. And yet what happens to male
sexual assault survivors that go to these resources and and
they're like, okay, let's talk about how you are sexually
violent against women. I mean, not you in particular because

(22:45):
you were raped by a woman, but men in general
need to take responsibility, like this is this is what
men get?

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (22:53):
This is what men get? It's sick. Okay, let's keep going.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
That's right. We invite you to recognize the complicated identity
of the male survivor, which is impacted by various additional
identities and experiences that male survivors hold. We are also
anchored in the primacy of trauma informed care. Every survivor
has experienced trauma, and as advocates, we need to know
and understand that how trauma manifests for survivors varies. What

(23:20):
survivors are seeking is healing, and as a community based organization,
your job is to provide opportunities for survivors to heal.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
What how very generous. We need to remember none of
the victims here as we teach them that they're actually
the aggressors are right.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
In twenty eight sorry, In twenty eighteen, NSVRC convened a
roundtable to inform the development and direction of resource content
on serving male survivors of sexual assault at rape crisis centers.
The eighteen participants in the roundtable included representation from sexual
assault centers, sexual assault coalitions, national technical assistance providers, and survivors.

(23:59):
The needs in prior already from this roundtable are reflected
in the resources developed and shared in this project. When
you go back up.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
To who was at the roundtable, this is who round table.
Eighteen people guys.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeahea, eighteen participants, yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Eighteen participants. Yeah, okay, all right, let's keep going.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
All right, So this is like the resources, and it's
basically like some lengths, some of them are not in English.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
So essentially what they've done is they've taken these resources
which are meant to be used by people who talk
to and help male survivors of sexual assault, and they
have reframed it all in the ideological context of feminism,
which is that men use sexual assault as a tool
to keep women in control. Right, And how do you

(24:48):
actually help male victims of sexual assault by women, in particular,
in a framework in which you see men as using
sexual assault to keep women under control. That's the question
we have before the court. So let's see what they've got.
And incidentally, we're going to be covering a bunch of
organizations that have been influenced by this. I suggest you

(25:11):
avoid them.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, okay, So the resources we have assessing our capacities
for assessing our capacity for serving male survivors of sexual
violence assessment tools. Sexual assault advocates and rate crisis centers
can use this self assessment tool to reflect on your
current work serving men who have had unwanted sexual experiences.

(25:35):
The tool offers reflection questions related to individual and organizational
capacity to serve male survivors. Should I like open that link?

Speaker 1 (25:44):
No? No, okay, I mean it's this is a this
is a rabbit hole. I'm sure we could find lots
of ideologically motivated hatred and a sluggish crap that now
male sexual assault survivors need to navigate. Let's look at
how often are men sexually harassed or assaulted?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Infographic? In this sympographic, we provide statistics on the prevalence
of sexual violence for men. All right, So sharing that, kay? Pdf?
So I gotta I should open up the pdf. I
guess okay, all right, it's just like one thing. It
says how often are men sexually harassed are assaulted. Forty
three percent of men reported experiencing some form of sexual

(26:26):
harassment and or assault in their lifetime. Many men do
not identify or describe these experiences as rape or sexual violence,
and some do not identify as a victim or survivor,
while others do. Some men may describe their experiences as
unwanted or abusive, the terms men use to describe these experiences.
May say, this is.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
So far fairly reasonable, although lifetime prevalence of sex that
is a dishonest. Lifetime prevalence of sexual violence undercounts male
victims substantially because male men are verified through longitudinal studies
they undercount sexual abuse when they're children by like a
factor of four relative to women. So this is this

(27:07):
is an undercount. Of course, it's honestly, it's not bad.
This is not bad. I will give this a not bad,
although I will point out that I asked Groc what
is the likelihood And I showed Groc all of the
studies that I've corelated about the rate of sexual victimization
of men by women, and I asked Groc, what is

(27:29):
the likelihood that feminists? The feminist conjecture that ninety percent
of rapists are men is true in the context of
the studies that I've shown you and Grok came back
with zero. There is a zero probability based on if
you look at the studies, there is a zero probability

(27:50):
that a society in which ninety percent of the sexual
aggressors were men would produce studies that show this kind
of prevalence. Right, There is no way that ninety percent
of the aggressors, the sexual assault, of the sexual violence
is done by men, No way. And in fact, what
we're showing, what we're seeing is that while more like

(28:14):
fifty percent is done by women, by the time you
get to convictions, ninety percent of the rapists are men.
Why because men male victims. In this patriarchy that apparently
uses rape and domestic violence to keep women in line,
male victims are discriminated against on every step. Every step

(28:35):
from frontline trauma counselors to police to embarrassed like to lawyers,
to the legal system to the justice Every single step
of the way is pushed back against male survivors getting
justice when their abuser is a woman. That's what it shows.

(28:56):
That's what it shows. That's what the ninety percent shows
is just discriminate against male victims. And again, when you
look at it that way, doesn't the whole thing about
feminists wanting to see this in a gendered context increase
the discrimination against men, the already existing discrimination, which incidentally
they put in place as well. So they are constructing

(29:18):
the gendered narrative. And then they say, while the gendered
narrative is why men don't reveal, like they don't talk
about it when they're constructing it. We had better attitudes
towards male victims of sexual assault fifty years ago. We
had more sane attitudes fifty years ago. It's getting worse

(29:38):
because feminists are forcing these gendered narratives everywhere because they're
money spinners.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Okay, all right, Uh, you want me to go back
to this. There's how we talk about working with male
survivors of sexual assault, harassment, and abuse. I also think
that's that study, that data there. It's possible that that's
still skewed even more because like they're talking about sexual
violence and all that, but like what's the context, Like

(30:08):
how do we define sexual violence? Does that include female
perpetrators like teachers or you know, like I don't know babysitters,
like like female authority figures over children. Does that include,
like I just wonder about that, because we're going.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
To go into does it include I don't.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Know, like because because like, if you frame it in
such a way that you know it's something that only
men can do, then they're only gonna have the incidences
of male sexual assault against other males, right, which is
not giving you the full picture, and it's also contributing
to the broader narrative of men as perpetrators. Mm hmm, So.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Okay, well yes, but also I think that the best
one to go into is actually the Saddie program, which
I'd like to call the Sadistic program.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, it's basically the first.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Four letters of sadistic. So they deserve it, all right,
So I did. I did send that through in If
you click on the link that I sent you, it'll
take you to the discussion which is in resources on
our discord. And incidentally, if you would like to join
us so you can see my resources and talk about
it and we can help each other destroy this gigantic

(31:28):
shit dome of lies, then go to Badger Nation down
online and take part in the community. But yeah, this
is a if you I can also oh, here, here
we go. This is the Sadie Report Final. Now it's long,
so you'll probably want to do something like do a
search on oppression the oppression narrative. But before we get
into that, I just want to point out looking deeper

(31:50):
into the Saddi Stick sexual assault framework, we find oppression theory,
including understand theory of tactics of oppression, microaggressions, and privileged
power and culture. So essentially, they're going in and they're
forcing people who are dealing with sexual assault survivors on
a trauma based model. What does that mean, Well, you
focus on the person in front of you and getting

(32:11):
over their trauma or helping them overcome their trauma or
develop coping skills to overcome their trauma. Right, So it's
a person focused kind of therapy. They're going in and
they're making these therapists reframe their work in the context
of tactics of oppression, microaggressions, privilege, power, and culture. Now

(32:32):
how does that affect First of all, that's going to
affect male victims because there's going to be a push
towards reframing them in the context of feminist conjecture as
the aggressors. Right, we don't need to talk about your sexuals.
Let's talk about all of the things you might be

(32:53):
doing to women or your femophobia that has led you
to regard sexual assault as female. Meanwhile, feminists are saying
sexual assault is female. You know that kind of thing,
that the impetus will be to treat female survivors not
as individuals going through a trauma, but as victims of
a wide spread conspiracy against women. So, in other words,

(33:17):
feminist conjecture as applied to assisting sexual assault survivors is
guaranteed secondary trauma because they're telling men you are actually
the oppressor, and they're telling women, not only have you
experienced this negative thing, but this negative thing is evidence
of social targeting of you because you're a woman. What

(33:40):
do you think that's going to do to people? And
this is something that the government funds. It's insane, but yeah,
let's say. Okay, So the next one is historical trauma,
including exploring privilege report. I'm just reading from the report
right now. You can look into opression theory. Just look
up oppression theory to find what I'm reading right now.

(34:02):
Historical trauma, including exploring privilege, practicing interrupting oppressive remarks and
courageous conversations. Ah, here it is, are we Why why
are you doing this to sexual assault survivors?

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Don't they have.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Enough on their plate? Now they have to become foot
soldiers for the feminists.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Oh yeah, the logical march through the institutions. Yeah, let
me read this again. So oppression theory. So these are
the this is like what the victims of sexual assault
and sexual violence? This is like the cure is essentially
to turn them into foot soldiers of feminist theory, including
oppression theory, including understanding theory and tactics of oppression, microaggressions,

(34:46):
and privilege, power and culture. How will that shake out
if you're a man dealing with this historical trauma, including
exploring privilege, practicing, interrupting oppressive remarks, what and courageous conversations?
All right?

Speaker 1 (35:03):
This is this? How does this inform helping people overcome
sexual assault trauma? It doesn't. It's basically just turning these
people into foots ideological foot soldiers, including the people who
are supposed to help them. All right, I'm going to
open this up and I'll give you look up. Look
up the term oppression and we'll look at the instances

(35:27):
of oppression in this PDF. That'll probably be fruitful because
that's what I did just to just to understand what
the hell they were up to.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Right, So first we have anti racism slash oppression stance.
Facilitators of the change included openness to learning, openness to change,
stability of leadership, empowering leadership, support for staff to mitigate
secondary and organizational trauma, and incorporating anti racism oppression work.
By the way, whenever you say whenever you see sentences
and say doing the work in this context, it's COMI gobbledygook. Okay.

(35:59):
Three anti racism oppression approach to serving survivors, which means
some survivors get more help than others. That's usually what
that means. Eight racial and ethnic demographics. Yes, male victims
of sexual assault that are black. It has nothing to
do with them being men, and it has everything to
do with them being black, because being a man is
the least important thing all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, I just want to get in here, it says
working with serving male survivors. So these top down organizations
are telling people who have been serving male survivors in
the trauma based model how to serve male survivors. Do
you know why? Because they are trying to pretend like
they know how to serve male survivors, which they don't.

(36:43):
They only know how to retraumatize male survivors by recasting
them as oppressors. So, but what they do this is
tools like tools for radical Alynksky.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Right, this is Liskinness, the radicals.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, yeah, these are Linskiness. What they're doing is they're
accusing these organizations of not serving male survivors properly, right,
because then they can slip in how to basically serve
them even worse, to slip in this framework. Oh, you're
not serving male survivors properly because male survivors need to

(37:23):
be served within a nuanced feminist context, and their identities
are complex within the feminist context, and you're in order
to serve a survivor, a male survivor of sexual assault
in particular of a woman, you need to make his
identity as a sexual assault survivor compatible with the feminist framework,

(37:47):
and that is serving him, which you aren't doing. Now. Yeah,
it's so fucking disreputable. It's just insane, and it drives
me nuts. These these these these podcasts that we do
on this incredibly important topic, get no traction. I don't

(38:08):
know if you guys are like I don't want to
listen to this, or if YouTube's like Nope, nobody's gonna
listen to this, and nobody like this is this is
the heart of it. Once men lose the narrative around
their sexuality, that's it. You're done, You're cooked. Feminism is
gonna bulldoze over your entire society until it destroys it.

(38:31):
Wander off, and so we're on. We didn't do that.
How does that happen? Okay, all right, keep going.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
Immigration. So again, immigration, oppression, culturally specific and contextually relevant planning.
So all of this is intersectionality. Like if you just
look at oppression, every time it comes up, it's in
an intersectional context. And the thing about intersectionality is that
that that basically always puts men at the bottom, no

(38:59):
matter what, no matter what the other their other characteristics
are that would normally put them a little higher up
compared to like, you know, straight cisgendered, middle class or wealthy,
affluent Western white men that have like you know, I
guess they're they're actually like citizens of the country, they're in.
Those guys are at the very very bottom. But men

(39:19):
in general are the ones being denied. This and all
the other identities or markers or characteristics are just used
to make this appear as though it's trying to like
correct some historical wrongs, but ultimately it doesn't serve anybody. Yeah,
it doesn't even serve the people who are supposedly higher
up because it's not framed in that way that it's

(39:40):
meant to help them. So yeah, well, I mean it's
you guys, get hit the like button for us, that'll
be helpful.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, I've hit the like button please. Like, this stuff
is really important. I know nobody likes talking about it.
Absolutely nobody likes talking about it. I understand that because,
like when I look at this stuff, I'm like, like,
what the fuck are you doing? And you're doing it
to male victims of sexual self of all people, like
the most marginalized people on the fucking planet, and you're

(40:07):
doing this to them. Take responsibility, But how the system
empowers you as a man and a male ex victim
of sexualist, Like, what the fuck are you doing?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (40:19):
What is this rank? Insanity? This rank, this absolute careless
disregard for your fellow human, Like, oh, what am I
talking about? Money? All right? So, but the other what
I wanted to point out. All right, it's okay, avoidcat,
I'm fine, right, I know if it were up to you,

(40:39):
the world would be a better place because everything that
angers me would disappear into the void. Maybe that wouldn't
make the world a better yeah, the cryptid's eyes, this
nonsense would be at least.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Should I go through the rest here?

Speaker 1 (40:55):
I was going to talk about intersectionality. Yes, intersectionality is
essentially removing victimhood from men. That's it, That's all it does.
And it puts them in the cast of always being
seen in terms of what they do for others rather
than what is done to them. That's what intersectionality does.
Turns them into scapegoat, turns them to blame. And it

(41:15):
also means that they are the most powerful or perceived
to be the most powerful actors in any particular system,
which some men really like. They like that, which is
why they hate me talking about this stuff. I've met
guys like that too. But this is like intersectionality is basically,
let's enforce traditional gender roles in the face of obvious

(41:38):
male disadvantage because we're gonna reframe all male disadvantage in
terms of things other than being male, right, just to
reaffirm that men are actors and women are acted upon.
And then feminism says, where do these traditional gender roles
that discriminate against male victims of anything come from from you?

(42:01):
From intersectionality, from your moral caste system? They come from you?
And then they blame patriarchy because patriarchy can't actually defend
itself against what feminism says it does. Have you noticed
that patriarchy never mounts the defense so powerful, yet never
defends itself against any accusations at all? Ever? Okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Jojo snoring? I hope he doesn't hear. Oh he stopped.
He's a wait now he was having a dream. I think,
all right? So should I keep going through the oppression
thing or should I put a different search term in here?

Speaker 1 (42:37):
No, just keep going through the depression thing.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Let's just say, right, oppression and sexual violence. So what's
the context of this. The impact of the learning exchanges
on the capacity of the sites to enhance their sexual
assault services was seen most profoundly because of the learning
exchange on building cultures of trauma informed care. This three
day learning exchange co facilitated by Tiambey Wallace and Nina

(43:01):
just Jusef or Yusef covered Okay, oppression and sexual violence.
So I think they're bringing in like it sounds like
this is more intersectionality.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
As an example of how a shiftboard active listening and
trauma informed approaches and existing services can transform those services
is seen in one staff member's description of how their
counseling services have changed. We have come to see the
work as a much broader effort around oppressions and violence
rather than merely violence against women. This has changed the

(43:36):
way staff describes services and has opened the door to
conversations in counseling sessions that might have been overlooked before.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, violence against like, violence against women, and violence against
all of these subcategories of man. Yeah, like, and they
think that this is an improvement. Men are still the scapegoat,
but you know, like they can let send in a
bit if if they're disabled or black or I don't know, gay, Well,

(44:06):
there's still the you know, gay men are the straight
men of gay people.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
Yeah, that's right, How gay men are the straight people
of gay people.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yep, Okay, let's keep going.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
All right, though, consequently survivors are experiencing greater support within
a holistic framework. For example, they discuss how sexual violence
is experience across the lifespan, how coping skills develop a
different ages, how personhood has developed through learned sexualization. This
shift was needed for us to really become a dual
program and to raise the bar of our sexual assault services.
It requires our staff to develop a unique set of

(44:39):
skills for being sexual assault advocates apart from the skills
of a domestic violence advocate. For the skills look similar,
but in practice they feel very different.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Okay, okay, no, keep going.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
I'm should I look for another word?

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Just keep going with the next paragraph, all right.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Despite the diversity of programs, there was a recurring theme
when talking about barriers to engaging in active listening and
trauma informed response. Screening protocols and intake forms were repeatedly
named as working against listening to survivors and allowing them
to take the lead on what they want to share.
Staff saw the problems early in the SADI process. We
act like we need to form a work, We need

(45:15):
a form to work with sexual assault survivors. We train
staff and volunteers to the form, not to the individual
sitting in front of them or on the other end
of the phone line. Our forms and intake protocols really
get in the way. They are the opposite of active
listening and trauma informed. But how do we get away
from them? Is that the bit you wanted me to read?

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yes, So the Sadi process. The people who are involved
in actually helping sexual assault survivors are pushing back against
the Sadi process because it turns everybody into a checkbox
on a form right instead of an individual congratulations, And
it does so because it's trying it. Literally, what it's

(45:55):
trying to do is square the circle with male survivors.
So it wants the staff, I'm guessing it wants the
staff not to treat a male survivor as a man,
but a male survivor as a disabled person, a black person,
a gay person, a trans man, whatever, but not actually
recognize that there are problems unique to men, especially when

(46:19):
they are victims of sexual assault. Because this patriarchy, which
never defends itself from any of the feminist allegations, apparently
is much more lenient towards women's sexual assault towards men
than the reverse. Despite the fact that every society in
history did not let its surfs and peasants use the

(46:40):
tools that it used to maintain the social hierarchy. So
lords in the past wouldn't let serfs and peasants have swords.
Apparently this patriarchy takes swords away from men and gives
them to women and says, use them as you will.
Men are a sexual resource for you. This is ground
zero for the absolute disintegration of female feminist ideology. This

(47:05):
that's why they're here, and that's why they're sneaking in
and getting their tentacles in and saying, use the form,
use the form, remember your cast system, remember that men
are actually the problem. Okay, just keep going.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Yeah, I got a super chat from Brown Guidgin for
five dollars. Thank you Brown Guidin and says I have
to go to work, but I wanted to show some love.
Thank you, appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Before. Huh have we heard from Brown Guidgin before, so welcome.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
If I feel like maybe that sounds oh no, no, I
was thinking about guidging Goomba. That was the guy that
used to watch us back in the day. I don't know, welcome.
I guess maybe he has, but yeah, appreciate you joining us.
So all right, let's see should I I'll go to

(47:58):
the next line here, so eleven? Uh yeah, so more
every time I see oppression, it just comes up in
the context.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Continue reading with the last one.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Oh, okay, all right. Consequently, the three of the sites
prioritized reviewing and changing their forms and intake protocols. Exemplifying
this work are the changes Crime Victim Services in the
Kila River Indian community made into their intake form. Theirs

(48:29):
were what.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
As half the sites, Yeah, changed it, Okay, keep going.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Their prior forms were more akin to what might be
seen in a criminal report and included detailed information about
the perpetrator assault and survivor's own behaviors and demeanor. Putting
the needs of survivors first and thinking about what it
was like for survivors answering those questions, staff at Crime
Victim Services discarded those original forms and started from scratch.
The goals were too better protect survivor confidence, reality, emphasize

(49:01):
building relationships with survivors, listening to their stories and affirming
their experiences. Eliminate implicit judgments and interpretations, reduce.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
The wait, wait, I was incorrect. So essentially these fact
based forms, you got half of them, got rid of
them to focus on something else. Well, they're not going
to get very very accurate statistics. Let's go to the
next instance of press.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
That's why they're affirming, right, Yeah, so this is effectiveness.
Effectiveness of specific services. Referrals, crisis, legal, counseling, ongoing well
being services were rated for the perceived effectiveness for serving
specific groups of survivors. These ratings reflect a more nuanced
view of services and notable increases and perceived effectiveness for

(49:47):
all groups of survivors. Increases range from differences and ratings
of one point one to zero point one. The groups
for which staff saw their effectiveness increasing the most were
for serving men and boys, transgender survivors, and gay slash
lesbian slash bisexual survivors. Those increases may be attributed to wait,

(50:09):
what but there are transgender survivors that are men biologically,
and there are gay and bisexual men as well, but
they're like treating them as separate categories. See that's like
another way that I am.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Who established that these these interventions benefited men. That's the
question here.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Yeah, you're just shrinking down that demographic though, because they
end up falling into That's what I'm saying, like with
the intersectionality, right, Like if they broke it down, if
they have a category for men and boys, and then
they have a category for gays, and they have a
category for bisexuals, and they have a category for transgender,
then all of those other categories will necessarily include men,

(50:56):
I mean, like the transgender maybe biological men. So that
makes the men category smaller, you see what I mean.
Like if they made a category for undocumented migrant men,
or black men or Latino men, then they can treat
it as a separate category from the one that's just
called men. I don't know if that's what they're doing,
but that's like the sense I get. I think it's

(51:18):
weird that they're talking about gay survivors separate from men
and boys. These increases may be attributed to the training
aspect of the SADI that emphasize understanding the specific needs
of survivors and the ways that racism and oppression can
impact survivors in different ways because of how trauma intersects
with other identities and experiences. In addition to specific trainings

(51:41):
on serving male and here this is again listen to this,
listen to this and think about it. Okay. In addition
to specific trainings on serving male LGBTQ, Native American and
teen survivors, the needs of different survivors and anti racism
slash oppression perspectives were a component of most training. Whereas

(52:02):
prior to the SADI staff at these programs tended to
approach serving the survivors or all survivors the same way,
by the end of the SAUDI they understood that different
needs survivors may have and were more prepared to respond
to those needs. So they literally added these other intersectional
identities because they didn't like the fact that everybody was

(52:24):
treated the same.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
At first, at an individual trauma based level.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
And also, this is the oppression narrative. So what's being
added is men are oppressors. Everybody else is oppressed. That's
what's being added. Okay. So the services were also rated
for the perceived effect for serving specific groups of survivors.
The question is like, what does this specifically, How does
this specifically inform the intervention with male survivors, because without

(52:53):
any information, the only thing that this adds is making
male survivors into oppressors in their narrative. Okay, and if
they're not doing that, then why are they saying, well,
we're teaching this narrative, but we're just not doing it
for male survivors because on some level we know that's
morally reprehensible, Like what what are they actually doing? So

(53:15):
when they say these ratings reflect a more nuanced view
of services, see effectiveness for all groups of survivors. Increases
range from differences and ratings of one point one to
zero point one. That is nnuscule. The groups for which
staff saw their effectiveness increasing most was for serving men
and boys, transgenderous survivors, and gay, lesbian, bisexual survivors. All right,

(53:38):
so staff thought they were more effective. And if you
actually look at the stats effectiveness of specific services, like
the only one that actually increased was counseling and this
is this is it, and it increased marginally supposedly, And
how much of the of the effect of that increases

(53:59):
these people realize that they have to say, oh, yeah, increase,
So in terms of referrals decreased, crisis decreased, legal, decreased, ongoing, decreased, medical, decreased,
well being, decreased, effectiveness of specific services decreased. Most of
them decreased as a result of this intervention. What a

(54:21):
surprise except for counseling. Why well, that could be simply
these counselors saying, well, we have to say it's good
somehow because that's what they want to hear. Could also
be the effect of feminist counselors being emboldened to start
start engaging engaging in secondary trauma of male survivors. This
is gross. Yeah, yeah, all right. So effectiveness of services

(54:47):
to specific groups says that boys and men, according to
the counselors. I believe this is according to the counselors,
boys and men were more served the groups of which
staff saw their effectiveness increasing. The staff are saying, oh, yeah,
we're we're better at serving boys and men because you're
telling them what now, what is.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
It your privilege?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
And that's what you're telling them. The staff are saying,
we're serving them better now by.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
Doing It's like they're basically saying that they're more useful
to them.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yes, I guess, like, but here's the thing. Remember when
we originally read the report on this from the National
Sexual Violence Resource Center, the staff say that this has
increased their ability to serve men and boys. The men
and boys say no, there so if we go with
what the men and boys saying, which I don't even

(55:43):
know why they ask, because the men and boys are
their scapegrowth group, what do they They don't genuinely care
what they think, especially since they've declared this success. Because
the staff are saying, oh, yeah, we serve them better, right,
and the men and boys are saying, no, we don't
like this, but who cares? Right, we know what's best

(56:04):
for them, and what's best for men and boys to
be reframed and the actors and the Grand Pageant of life.
You know that in the moment, these these boys, these
men and boys might perceive that they might actually be
victims of women or acted upon by women. No, we
need to reframe that. We know what they need. I
mean that alone is completely disreputable. The fact that boys

(56:27):
and men are saying, no, this isn't helping, and these
these people are going well, but the staff say it is,
and we say it is, so shut the fuck up.
Who's who? Who are you to say how you should
be served when you're a victim of sexual violence and
we are counseling through your you through your trauma. Who
are you to say, man, how you should be served?

(56:49):
How dare you think that you should be centered in
your own trauma counseling? How oppressive? How patriarchal? How privileged? Okay,
let me see if there's anything for Oh yeah, there
there was actually staff that was pushing back a bit. Okay,

(57:10):
so we can go to table seven, staff turnover at
SADDY Sites.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
How what page is that?

Speaker 1 (57:19):
It's uh it's page eighty eight, okay, eighty eight. Yuh
table seven? Can you search on table seven? Search on
table seven?

Speaker 2 (57:31):
All right, I'll just search table seven. Yep, all right,
Staff turnover at sad I Sites page ninety two here,
so oh okay, all right, No, that's fine. I guess
that's because the numbered page the number page might be
eighty eight. Yeah it is, but it's further up than that. Okay.

(57:52):
So minimum staff side, like is it or we're just
we're going to read this anti Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
So staff sign is percentage left by the end of
SADIE So, uh seven seventy seventy five percent. Oh okay,
So this is the amount of staff that's left by
the end of the SADDI intervention. So the middle so
the most. The place that saw the most staff lost

(58:20):
thirty three percent of its staff. The place that's ore,
the place that saw the least amount of or the
mean of staff lost was twenty three percent. And there
was I guess one place that didn't see any staff lost,
or one place that saw four percent up, one place
that saw twelve percent down. So basically, this, this freaking

(58:44):
intervention loses staff overall, overall lost to staff at least
that's my interpretation from this.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
That's what it looks like. Yeah, me and the mean
and lost B two.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
And if you go back to the next the next paragraph,
just read staff turnover. So staff are rebelling against this.
If there are increases, I wonder who what ideology those
increases represent Who those increases are representatives of? Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Staff turnover has long been talked about as a problem
in the fields of sexual and domestic violent services. The
SADI represented an opportunity to systematically track staff turnover across
multiple years. As shown in Table one, the rates of
turnover were shockingly high for all SADDY sites across the
four years of their involvement with the SADI. In the

(59:34):
best case, two thirds of staff who were with their
program at the start of the SADDY had left the
program by the end of the SADDY. For one site,
none of the staff who were with their program at
the start of the SADDI had left the program by
the end of the SATTY. For one site, Oh, I'm sorry.
For one site, none of the staff who were with
the program at the start of the SATTI were still

(59:54):
there at the end. The turnover was in fact higher
than what these numbers represent, because in many cases there
were multiple changes in staff for a single position during
the course of the SATI. These numbers only took only
look at the beginning and end, not the multiple changes
that occurred in between. This level of turnover poses many
challenges for dual slash multi service programs. Simply maintaining services

(01:00:19):
at the current level is a formidable task when there
are frequently empty positions having to be covered and new
staff having to be trained. Within that context, there is
little room for thinking about how to enhance sexual assault
services enhanced with this ideology, Yes, when that work is
taken on as it was in the SADI. Maintaining continuity

(01:00:41):
of planning, cultivating program wide awareness and of buy into
the efforts and implementing plans can seem to be nearly impossible.
This makes what the Sadi sites achieved all the more remarkable.
So like that's flight failure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Yeah, yeah, success, this is a success. Guys. Now, we
don't for sure if it was the Saddie program that
caused this incredible rate of turnover, like one hundred percent
gone over the four years of the Saddi intervention. I mean,
we'd have to look at years before the Saddie, But
I imagine that this turnover isn't normal. But you know,

(01:01:17):
that's just showing the success of the programs somehow.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, I guess people just weren't ready where they just
it was too cutting edge or something.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
The next section that I wanted to look at was
when the staff actually talked about the problems. But that's
gonna give me a moment to actually figure out how
to how to find that. I think it would be
the jewel I misspelled that, Okay, looking.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
To see here? All right? What am I? What am
I looking up? I could search it? What's the term individually.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
I'm trying to find? Okay, So here we go. It's
I think it's the it is if you go if
you go up up through the it's the forty ninth
incident of individual. But you probably want to go up
through the incidences rather than down so you can find Oh, actually,
let me just give you the name number. Uh, it
is eighty nine labeled and ninety three in the A.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
That makes sense, ninety three.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Okay, So all right, okay, So there was thosething that's
demonstrated all sites.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Oh it was like literally right here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
Actually, let's just continue with the anti racism oppression stance.
All right, continue to those paragraphs. So we're going to
discover how they made these people's lives worse.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Yeah, anti racism slash oppressing stance. A basic tenet of
the SADDY was that effective sexual assault services cannot happen
if there is not an understanding and direct response to
racism and oppression. So we can't help you until we
acknowledge the elephant in the room that we made up
called oppression and systemic systems and institutional institutions and all

(01:02:58):
of that. Yeah, we apply our systemic systems are moral.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
You would think that if somebody presents with a traumatic
experienced sexual assault, that the focus would be on helping
them live a full life and overcome their trauma. No,
the focus should be on teaching them feminist moral caste
system and where they stand.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Okay, all right to that. To the extent that programs
do not endorse and enact an anti racism slash oppression approach,
they will be limited in their capacity to serve survivors
from marginalized groups. Not men. Among the SADI sites, most
of them ascribe to an anti racism slash oppression language
from the beginning of the Sadi. However, their understanding of

(01:03:46):
what that means vary greatly. Even more, staff capacity and
willingness to allow themselves and their work to be shaped
by that understanding range from active engagement to passive or
active resistance. All right, I have, you know, like a
moral center and they're like, this doesn't seem.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Right, Yeah, okay. Their capacity to serve survivors from marginalized groups.
Let's just go through the marginalization of male victims of
sexual assault. When they're children, they are less likely as
adults if they are sexually abused. Verified as children, they
are four times less likely to reveal this to anyone.

(01:04:26):
As adults, it takes longer for them to operationalize their
experiences of abuse right, surveys actively discriminate against them. Some
surveys don't even capture the extent of male sexual abuse
because we as a society are just in the process
of starting to recognize it as a criminal problem. Okay,

(01:04:46):
they are not served by police. In fact, they're more
likely to be the laughed out of a police department
than actually have their situation treated with seriousness. Although if
you are experiencing that, do go because you never know.
In the future the woman who raped you might attempt
to get child support. This could probably help your case,
so please please do get police reports for these instants.

(01:05:11):
Generally are getting better about this, at least the police
are right. So they experience discrimination on a society wide
level because there's no narratives around. Especially male victims of
female sexual assaulters, they don't have equivalent services because of
feminist initiatives that are trying to keep rape and sexually
assault female only or female mostly right. They when these

(01:05:36):
organizations try to intervene, they intervene to turn these men
and boys into ciphers for their ideology, so they're not
seeing them as centering them, they're seeing them as a
tool to an end centering their trauma and centering the
recovery of their trauma. They see them as a tool
to end every step and are more marginalized. Men and

(01:05:57):
boys are more marginalized as sexual assault survivors. They're more
marginalized and even being able to recognize it because of
the narratives around sexual assault that are perpetrated not by
patriarchy but by feminism itself and by women. By the way,
don't blame it on men. They are discriminated against in
terms of services. They aren't believed when they talk about

(01:06:18):
it right. They don't really have services, at least services
that aren't free of ideological possession right that want to
reframe them as the problem. They are discriminated against in
survey instruments that don't properly capture the sexual assault of
men and boys, or they euphemistically frame it as something
other than rape when it is rape right, or they

(01:06:41):
use they prioritize using female survey ors, which guarantees an
undercount of male victims, or they do something which is
what the Intimate Partner Sexual Violence Survey did. Recently, they've
started to do this weird scattershot thing where they just
are like, oh, how many people live in your house. Okay,
so what would be their ages? Oh? I see, so

(01:07:02):
forty forty five, twelve and two. Okay, have you ever
been bought fucked by a monster?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
The people are like what? Because before they would start
with like like just just like little questions to start
to get people to understand what is being what they're wanting,
like have you ever experienced unwanted touching?

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Have you?

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
And then they would go from there. Now they're dropping
rape questions right in the middle of wherever, and people
are just not only are men not disclosing for obvious reasons,
there are people who are bouncing from these surveys. So
they changed their methodology to do that, and now they're
finding less and less male victims. I wonder why it's

(01:07:50):
because in order to capture sexual assault victimization, you can't
just drop these questions in the middle of other questions, right,
You have to create a dialogue because people don't feel
comfortable responding to them just you socking them in the
fucking mug with it and then responding to it. Nobody

(01:08:11):
feels comfortable. Women don't feel comfortable with it. Men especially
don't feel comfortable with it. And I'm guessing that they
change the methodology because they know that men especially don't
feel comfortable with it. So men discriminated against in the
narratives around sexual assault in law, in the surveys, in policy,
in services, and now you're coming with to me with

(01:08:33):
this bullshit about how marginalized groups, which I guarantee your
ideology does not consider men to be part of, at
how they have to be served. I think it would
be actually more more reasonable for these people to be
taught about all of the marginalization of male victims of
sexual assault, not the intersectional moral caste system that doesn't

(01:08:57):
recognize that the most marginalized victims of sexual asault are
men and boys. Okay, ran Over, I took you on
a bit of a squirrel ride there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
That's all right, all right? So should I keep going?
All right? Believing that believing that anti racism and oppression
work is integral to serving survivors of sexual violence. The
SADI Technical Assistance Team began training sites on these issues
from the first Learning Exchange and Oppression and Trauma. That
training covered oppression theory, including understanding theory and tactics of oppression, microaggressions,

(01:09:34):
and privileged power and culture. Historical trauma, including exploring privilege,
practicing interrupting oppressive remarks and courageous conversations. Intersections of sexual
violence and oppression, including rape as a tool of and
a result of oppression, and culturally specific barriers. Impact of
oppression on healing, including analysis of program's readiness to respond

(01:09:58):
to marginalized group So, okay, let me just finish this.
There was openness demonstrated by all sites at the training.
Indicators included sites sharing encounters with racism in their communities
and asking for feedback on how they handled those encounters.
Acknowledgments of the need to weave anti racism slash oppression
work into all work. Endorsement of the idea that sexual

(01:10:20):
violence is a form of oppression that is related to
other oppressions. Open expressions of dissatisfaction with staff members's own programs,
lacking diverse representation, and struggling with how to make a
commitment to diversity. Real engagement from all sites with the
training discussions and exercises, High levels of engagement across sites

(01:10:41):
informally outside of the training discussions and exercises. Final sharing
on what participants were taking back to their programs, including
better understanding the layers of oppression, new tools to respond
to oppression, stretching outside of one's comfort zone critical role
of anti oppression work ways to engage in subverse of
action for positive change, and the need to work on

(01:11:03):
individuals and programs' own internalized oppression.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Can you understand why there was such a freaking high turnover?
And the thing is that we don't we don't have
anything to compare it to, although this seems to be
appallingly high. So they're going into a set of services
that already probably is difficult to keep staff right, and
they're making everything freaking worse.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Yeah, because they're not actually taught that they the agenda
seems to me has nothing to do with helping victims
of sexual assault and rich has nothing to do with it. It's
it's a vehicle to push this ship. That's it. That's
what it is. They're gonna they're gonna take these people
who are traumatized, they're not gonna help them, and they're
gonna turn them into activists for their cause. That's it.

(01:11:51):
That's what that that that's what this is like. I
don't see, I don't that's all. That's what I see.
And they're gonna turn them into activist. And you know what,
broken people are much easier to mold in this way.
So you take somebody traumatized by an experience looking for help,
and they go to these people and they're like, we're
gonna we're gonna give you a purpose. They're not gonna

(01:12:13):
help them. In fact, if they're boys and men, they're
gonna be worse off because they're gonna be the subject of,
you know, learning that they're the problem while also finding
that they're only their only way to repent is to
join their cult. Yeah, I mean that's you know, well.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
They've they've just gone through an experience that sort of
strips away their human value, and now they're gonna say, well,
little Timmy, you know how you can get that back.
You can become a foot soldier for the ideology. And
this is allowed. And the funny thing is is that
the staff turnover at these sites is almost spartening.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
It's almost Yeah, it means that people are like that
sounds like bullshit to me, that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
Sounds like bullshit. There's there are people who are working
with actual sexual assault survivors who are rejecting this because
they know it's harmful. They know it's psychotic and sick,
and they probably this is colonialism, this is feminism, being like,
you got a nice sexual assault survivor center. There be

(01:13:13):
a shame if we called you a bunch of sexists.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Yeah yeah, And it says here, let me see where
was it? I thought it was ninety two? It's extortion,
and they tell you what they're doing. They tell you
what they're doing. Ninety three, let me see, yeah, yeah
here it is no wait, yes, so this this bit
right here, as you know that they are open about

(01:13:38):
what they're doing. Final sharing on what participants were taking
back to their programs, including better understanding the layers of oppression,
new tools to respond to oppression, stretching outside of one's
comfort zone, critical role of anti oppression, work, ways to
engage in subversive action for positive change, and the need

(01:13:59):
to work on individuals and program's own internalized oppression. So
they are they are openly telling us that they are
showing that they are engaging in subversive action to positive change.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
This is a struggle session which they are afflicting on
victims of sexual assault.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
Okay, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
At no point do these people ever sit back and say,
are we the baddies like the trauma Okay, services for
victims of sexual assault is not where you push your ideology, right,
that is not appropriate. And the fact that you are

(01:14:42):
pushing your ideology and you are centering your ideology over
an individual framework of trauma healing, you are the baddy.
You are the baddy. Yes, okay, I want you to go.
Let's see where it's go to. Keep going, keep reading
after that last one, because it's going to start talking
about the effectiveness of this program, which you know it

(01:15:05):
might actually be heartening to read about. No, no, no, don't
go any further.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Go back to where you are from here.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
Yeah. Even however, even with the high level.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
However, even with the high level of engagement endorsement of
the ideas, when all sites were asked to turn to
their own plans for enhancing sexual assault services and to
identify ways to incorporate the ideas and commitments to anti
racism slash oppression work into their change plans and services,
the discussions quickly slowed down and became much more vague

(01:15:36):
than when the discussions were about responding to racism and
impression outside the programs.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
So they were trying to get these people to force
this shit into their programs, and then suddenly you get
a whole bunch of evasive language. Sure to like Humphreys
in yes, Minister, when he doesn't want to do something,
He's like, in the fullness of time, would consider our
options to regard the possibility of a committee looking into

(01:16:02):
the issue of So you can imagine these sexual assault
services are like, okay, we can talk about but not
in the context of our client therapist relationship. And they're
just trying to get these thugs off the scent, because
that's what this is. This is thuggery. This is ideological thuggery.
They're going in and they're forcing these people to abide

(01:16:23):
by their ideological restrictions in their therapies, and these people
are resisting it because I guess some psychologists still understand
the concept of do no harm, yea, and they realize
that this is harm. All right, let's keep going, all right,
just keep reading.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Three of the sites continue to openly work on enacting
their anti racism slash oppression commitments commitments. Examples of how
sites enacted these commitments included replicating with staff the exercises
and discussions about oppression they had at the learning exchange
on oppression and trauma, exploring the specific nature of historical

(01:17:02):
trauma and oppression in the different cultural communities served by
the program, building models of practice that are specifically grounded
in the values and practices of the cultural communities served
by the program, as a consequence of realizing that culturally
specific models of services largely do not exist, committing to
creating them. However, as the SADDI progressed, the other three

(01:17:26):
sites demonstrated passive and or active resistance to technical assistance providers,
encouraging them to look more closely and self critically at
their individual and organizational capacity to serve marginalized communities. Sometimes
the resistance was clearly stated, such as when staff at
one site said, why should we emphasize culturally specific services?

(01:17:48):
We just work with individual survivors. More often, it was
expressed through behaviors such as actively reaching out to and
investing in bilingual services for the local Latin community. Latin
with an at Latin at community. Are we trying this again, guys,
stop while overlooking the needs of the local African American community.

(01:18:08):
But they speak English? Do you need to get like
an Abonis guy on there to be like yo? Fam
Oh my god, Oh my god, this fucking website silencing
women and men of color during staff discussions men of color,
not men, just like the okay, only sending staff who
identifies people of color to the learning exchange.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
What we're seeing is these individuals are not complying. So
now they're going to be accused by the party of
being you know, anti party.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Yeah, they're going to become labeled problematic. Only sending staff
who identify as people of color to the learning exchange
and on oppression and trauma, but no other learning exchanges,
or never sending people of color to the learning exchanges,
excluding people of color from their own internal change teams,

(01:18:57):
segregated segregated teams, apparently denying that leadership existed among communities
of color in their local areas, despite clear evidence of
such leadership, refusing to meet with service providers from nearby
communities of color because it was inconvenient to do so,
stating that anti racism slash oppression frameworks were not relevant

(01:19:18):
to their communities. It's not dismissing the experiences of staff
from culturally specific savvy scites overt statements that reflected stereotypes
and prejudices against communities of color. We're gonna have a
chicken and waffle night at the local facility. Do you
guys want some?

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
Hell?

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Yeah, like me some chicken and waffles. Problematic can't have
even if you like I like that stuff. But okay,
all right, do you want to say anything to that?
Like I'm dying inside.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
I just I'm just like half of these programs just
engaged in passive and active resistance against this colonialization. Good
on you, Good on you. I wonder if those were
the ones that didn't it didn't experience as much of
a of a staff turnover, right, But the thing is
that they said that three sites experienced a huge amount

(01:20:08):
of staff turnover and three sites didn't. I wonder if
the three sites that told them to go pound sand
were the ones that didn't experience as much staff turnover.
And again, these are colonialists shaking down. These are this
is the mob shaking down sexual assaults survivor organizations. They're
shaking them down. They're like, you got some clout, deliver

(01:20:32):
it or we'll call you a bunch of problematic organizations.
You'll lose some federal funding. Give us that clout. Yeah,
make sure those those those raped people they they learn
what's really important, which is to push the party line,
push the feminist line. And then these these these these

(01:20:52):
sexual assault counselors are like, this is about centering the
individual who has experienced trauma, not your idea, please f
U c k off. Yeah, I mean at least that
at least we have that. Guys, you know, there are
still some human beings out there. But this is like
being pushed by the National Sexual Violence Resource Center. This

(01:21:17):
is federally funded to a degree. And this is basically feminist.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Ideology came out of the Violence Against Women Act, Like
that's like it came from that and the cd the
Center for Disease Control and Prevention. I think it was
so like not yeah, that it came out of that,
so it just sort of like makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:21:39):
Yeah, so that's that's what I wanted to talk about.
I mean, unbelievable, huh. And this is this is what
GROC considered to be feminists caring about men as victims. No,
not really, and again, right, huge staff turnover for whatever
reason during this program, lots through these sites where the

(01:22:00):
staff was actively resistance against this program and men and
boys said they didn't like it. They had the lowest rank,
lowest rates among men and boys. But this is this
and this program is like three fifths of the section
on helping men and boys mm hm, helping men and

(01:22:23):
boys to realize that they're the problem. I'm all right,
good lord, Okay, so should we do a palate cleanser?
Do you want to do that?

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
Yeah? Yeah, no, no, I I can just I can
see what this is. It's essentially, yes, like they're selling
a struggle session and they're upset that not everyone is reciprocal,
that they're like not taking it. Well, so I have well, yeah, what.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
Do you give trailer of a woman?

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
I do have a trailer. I'd laugh at it. That's
basically about the extent of it. I know we could.
It's about three minutes long.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
Oh good lord, no, it probably deserves a rage.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
A long Yeah, yeah, too long. Let's can you do it?
On Friday? There's news the new show coming out on
Apple Plus. I'm just gonna throw it out there. As
you guys know. It's called The Savant Sorry Jessica Chastain
and well, it's about a mother who well, let me see,
like it's an upcoming American crime thriller mini series. It's

(01:23:19):
aimed at women, created by Melissa James Gibson, and it's
based on an article by Andrea Stanley. So I think
it was like a New York Times article or something,
but they made a whole show around this article. Let's
see if I can find it while you're while you're
getting the palate cleanser. Ready, let's see what.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
Yeah, I got something. I'm going to send it to you.
But yeah, let's let's read it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
So, yeah, it's true. It's inspired by a true life
story entitled is It Possible to Stop a Match Shooting
Before it Happens? Which featured in Cosmopolitan in August thirty
nineteen of a woman who has come to be known
as the Savant trades online hate groups in order to
prevent large scale public attacks. Oh, I have this file.

(01:24:07):
I can just play it. Hold on, this is yeah.
I have that video of the Mary Morgan one. I
actually saw it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Yeah, so uh okay, yeah, that okay. Well, I wonder
if she's ever infiltrated our group, the.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
Online hate group.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
We're an online hate group because I say that male
victims of sexual assault should not be treated as the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
That's why I picked it out, because I was like, oh,
that seems relevant to our interests.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
Yeah, well it is. Like when I started this, I
was a young feminist and I thought the most important
feminist issue was that women should also serve their country
in wartime. And then I was debused, like I realized
I am the only feminist who gives a crap about that.
And also I was concerned about male victims of sexual
assault and female victims of women as well, right the

(01:24:56):
ones who are most marginalized. And as I've advocated for
that issue, I've come to realize that feminists aren't like
ignorant of the existence of male victims of sexual assault
by women. They are deliberately suppressing it. And they are
deliberately suppressing it because it is inconsistent with their ideology

(01:25:18):
that men use sexual assault to uphold patriarchy. Now, how
could they do that if they were equal victims of
women's sexual assault. Doesn't make sense, doesn't work. So they
got to push it down, ostracize it, move out, make
sexual assault be seen as a female or more majority
female thing. And men are really just victims of violence
against women when it happens to them, like they did

(01:25:40):
in the UK and gradually over the last twenty years,
I've realized that this isn't a position taken out of ignorance.
It's a position taken out of deliberate malice. It's a
deliberate malice. Like malice isn't just hatred, it's also neglect. Right,
It's knowing that there's a negative outcome and not caring

(01:26:02):
because you want to pursue some other interests like money. Right,
So this is malicious, a malicious, amniscient, omniscient no omission. Sorry,
my wires got crossed there for a second. This is
a malignant omission because it challenges feminist ideology. Feminist ideology

(01:26:22):
makes money, generates clout, and they don't want to address
these issues. And they've basically set feminist ideology against recognizing
the full scope of sexual abuse of men by women.
They've set it against They've basically made defeating feminism a
prerequisite towards recognizing the extent of male victimization by women.

(01:26:49):
They've done that, They've set their ideology against male victims
of women. That understanding didn't come place, didn't come to
my mind until like the Amber Heard trial. It was
starting to percolate, and then this year I just realized
it I just it's just everything slotted in my mind,

(01:27:10):
everything that I've seen over the last twenty years. There
is no world in which feminist advocacy exists and male
victims of female rapists are fully acknowledged, fully acknowledged. It
just doesn't happen. Okay, yeah, that's hate speech. All right.
Let's watch this, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
Let's stick this out. This is Mary Morgan. These on
a show called pop Culture Crisis. It's basically like a
part of Tim Poole's network, so it's the site like
they work for. There's a lot of overlap, but she
talks specifically about pop culture culture things. All right, so
let's listen. This is a yeah, this is a good one.

Speaker 3 (01:27:49):
Permanently damaged their brains. They held yet another book talk
event in real life that ended in disaster called Sinners
and Stardust where your darkest dreams become reality. Okay, this
was their dark romance ball.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Nice, totally normal stuff. Yep, no safe words, yes, very normal. Right, Yeah,
this is about books. Here is just one of the
male actors they hired to choke attendees and point weapons
at them. Get your bag, king, It's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
Like, who's gonna tell them?

Speaker 3 (01:28:25):
That the stripper doesn't actually like you. Yep, and we're
supposed to believe this is just for women who really
love reading books. Absolutely nothing weird about it except for
those allegations. Apparently, one of the few men there was
said by multiple women made to describe against his will,
how he would hypothetically kidnap a woman in real life

(01:28:48):
like men do in the dark romance books. At least
one woman tried to stalk him by sneaking an air
tag on him. Is anyone surprised to see the organizers
of the event aka.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
This is a little bit of first they stalked him
down and group sexually assaulted him, Yes, cornered him, stalked
him down, cornered him, and group sexually assaulted him.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Yeap coffee mugs in the chat guys, Okay, let's watch
the rest of this.

Speaker 3 (01:29:14):
Yes, we've got nighthawk lover of smut. At least you're
being honest, Resident Cinnamon Roll and the Bodacious Beauty Babe.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
Okay, you get it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
Obviously, if some group of men put on a fan
convention all about celebrating their violent graphic fantasies, women would
rightly disapprove of it and not feel safe there. These
women are deranged and we have to shame this behavior
or unfortunately, we're gonna see.

Speaker 4 (01:29:36):
More of it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Let me put it this way. Men dressing up as
cryptids and doing all this other stuff. That's not the
deranged behavior. Okay, let's let's be honest. I mean, it's
it is what it is. It's like a it's like cosplay, right.
The deranged behavior is a sexual assault, and it happens
at romance conventions like this. This is a persistent problem

(01:30:01):
with the romance community. Okay, it happens at normal, vanilla
romance conventions. So it's not the dark aspects of this,
although you know, not great. It is the sexual assault.
I just want to point that out because I think
we get into this kind of oh, it's about the

(01:30:22):
dark romance or whatever else, when it's really should be
focused on the fact that these women have violent sexual
entitlement to men's sexuality, and that exists across the entire
spectrum of romance. So it's not just this that has
the problem, is what I'm getting at.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Well, again, you know, the one of the main issues
is that female romance novels is porn for women, and
no one acts like it is. So that's why only
porn for men, which is the visual stuff, that's what
gets a lot of attention, a lot of like you know,
curl pearl clutching and that kind of thing. But like

(01:31:01):
romance novels for women, which is basically porn for them,
no one beats an eye. They don't generally care. You
can get it at Walmart, you can get it at
the drug store. You know, you can go to like
a CVS and you can get those books there. And
I think that that's the main thing is that we
don't think of it the same at all, even though
it is well effect what we.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
Don't think of any of that. Okay, sorry, it has
the same effect. It actually probably has a worse effect
on women from the little research that I've seen, because
it encourages incredibly destructive attitudes towards your partners and expectations
that tend to degrade relationships, Like if you're going to

(01:31:44):
expect your partner to mind read, it's going to be
a problem in your relationship. And then also it encourages
like some really dark behavior among women. But like I said,
this is a problem with the entire romance genre, which
now has consumed frickin' everything. The fiction genre, like historical
science fiction, fantasy. Everything has been consumed into romance. It

(01:32:08):
has been consumed into women's porn. And you're right, it
does need more constraints because we don't splash men's porn everywhere.
We expect them to put it in a brown paper bag.
We don't expose children to it, we try not to.
And yet women's porn is just everywhere. It's ubiquitous. Now,

(01:32:28):
it's in Barnes and Nobles on like giant shelves with
celebration of monster fucking right, yeah, it's and it's yeah
that okay, it's fine. You have these fantasies, Fine, you
want an outlet, Fine, take responsibility for the fact that
that should be contained and outside of polite society, and

(01:32:50):
also take responsibility for your violent sexual entitlement as women.
You remember, we just went through that whole thing about
how feminists are like, uh, you know, we how do
we help male victims of sexual assault, especially by women,
but while maintaining a framework that sexual assault is gendered,
that attitude that sexual assault is something men do that

(01:33:11):
women do not do or just don't do in the
same way, or it's not as important.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
That attitude leads to stuff like this. It empowers stuff
like this where men are being sexually assaulted. It empowers
the romance community to continue to not address its persistent
problems of sexually assaulting. It's male talent because feminists say
that rape is gendered, So what they're doing can't be rape,

(01:33:38):
right because their goalies. What they're doing can't be sexually
assault because they're goils.

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
So feminism is constructing a rape culture, enforcing it on
sexual assault services. But at least half of those sexual
assault services pushed back, and at least half of those
sexual assault services almost completely lost their staff, so at
least somebody is somebody is not appreciating it. Although, honestly,

(01:34:07):
if it continues at this rate, the sadistic program that's
being pushed by the National Sexual Violence Ideological Center is
going to basically destroy every sexual assault resource in the country.
They'll either dissolve because everybody will quit, or they will
actively push back and then be called sexist and be

(01:34:27):
forced to resolve dissolve, so nobody's gonna have sexual assault resources. Guys,
thank you, feminism. You're such a peach. You're making the
world better, of course, and women will continue to rape
and sexually assault manic romance conventions because that's not something
women do. Feminism told us that rape is gendered. Good grief.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
Okay, all right, should we wrap it up?

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
Yeah? I don't think we can do like, yeah, we
have like what fifteen minutes to do the three minutes
of that, I think we're.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
Gonna have No, no, no, we can do that later. I already
got rid of it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
I talked a lot. Did you have anything to add.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
No, No, it's fine, I will I'll just say this.
Your privates are now named after the last TV show
or movie you watched. So what is their name? God,
last thing you saw is what your privates are now named? Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Well, uh no Man's Zone.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
No really, no man's phone, No Men's Zone. It's the
No Man's Zone is the last TV series.

Speaker 1 (01:35:32):
It's sort of poking fun at feminist utopia. Yeah, although
the latest seed, the latest episode had like a bunch
of patriarchs, except it was just hilariously ridiculous, and the
patriarchs were actually appropriating the things that had happened to
the group of men that was living outside of all

(01:35:53):
of this. The patriarch which were like former men who
were called seed keepers, who are the ones who are
basically responsible for insemine all the women. But it was
a completely sexless society, and anyway, they they got loose,
and then they established the most ridiculous patriarchy where they
had these like gigantic fly swatters and they would use
that to like menace the women, but they would never

(01:36:14):
actually hit them, and then they would make them peel
potatoes for like half an hour at a time. They'd
be like, you get for punishment, you get three shifts
and peeling potatoes, which is like an hour and a
half of peeling potatoes. So it was just the most
ludicrous thing, and it is it is pretty funny. And
through it all there's this one guy called the Baron

(01:36:35):
who's just like he's supposed to be this Russian tough guy,
but he pretty much just tolerates everyone and they're Shenanigans
and he's very sympathetic because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
So I got some answers from the chat. I want
to read them. So simply obvious says killer clowns from
outer space.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
God.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Robert Johnson says no country for old Man. Mnemonic says
a fist full of dollars. That's good. Cutie q ta
tay cuteay, says nobody. That's a movie. But yeah, that's good.
All right, cool, Well, last thing I watched was Jason
The Argonauts, so seems appropriate in the Argonaut the Argonaut anyway,

(01:37:15):
So yeah, I guess I guess we'll end it there.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
Yeah, although you just poke the les. It's just taking
a while. Yep, come on, you goddamn let me just
refresh this. Maybe it'll speed it up. You paid, yes,
just to make sure that we've got all our super
chows in order. Po, it's just gonna take a moment here.
You didn't really like I thought you're the The Monday

(01:37:40):
interview with this is Shaw was really great.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
Thank you. Yeah, I mean I'll probably have him on
again because there's like other stuff I wanted to talk
about with.

Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
Oh yeah, he's a lot of stuff that you can.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Also send him an article to look at too, and yeah,
so we'll see right now, I'm just thinking about getting
to what.

Speaker 1 (01:37:59):
Well we got. Okay, all right, so we got so
big thank you to Yulkley who put in five hundred
dollars to the meetup. Thank you. He's actually gonna be too,
So I'm looking forward to meeting. Yes, yes, we we're
gonna have We're gonna have about double that we did
last year. Yeah, so it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
It's growing a little bit us all to chill out.

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
Yeah, this place to chill at, to do some presentations.
I'm gonna do, like I'm hoping that the present well,
my aim is that the presentations will be a bit
more informal than they were. Maybe we can do like
a maybe we can do like a behind the scenes
uh stream like Badger stream, Like we could stream at

(01:38:45):
the event and then have people in the audience like
ask us questions like we're doing now, except with Hannah
and Mike. And I don't know if Karen, Like I
don't know what's happening with Karen.

Speaker 2 (01:38:57):
She's she's like just react with personal stuff in the
last two months.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
But yeah, anyway, it's it's a thought. But and then
we'll have pizza, we'll have like breakfast boxes, and they
have like a water park there too, So if you
guys like that kind of thing. But yeah, you'll clese coming.
So thank you for that five hundred bucks. You'll clear
I'll give you an idea of where we're at for
the total for the next for the next deadline, or

(01:39:27):
like for the next segment for the next goal. There
we go. I got it out eventually for the next goal,
it is fourteen and fifty to go, and that's to
help pay off Brian's travel and Hannah's travel and Mike's travel,
and and then after that we'll be looking into doing

(01:39:50):
some audio visual upgrades. So if you would like to
help out with that, it's feed the Badgery dot com
slash events and consider coming if you're in Calgary, but
you have to our SVP at Badger at feedbadger dot com.
It's all on at feed the Badger dot com slash events.
I want to start building up the momentum again because
it'd be nice to actually go to a full convention.

(01:40:13):
I got booted out of Calgary fifteen. I got booted
out of the entirety of the US in like twenty
nineteen when we put on the IC my twenty nineties,
I couldn't even actually go to that convention. So maybe
three times a charm in a few years we'll be
able to put on a convention in Calgary and I'll
actually be able to attend the full thing. That would
be awesome. So if you want to put some funds

(01:40:34):
towards building up the momentum for that, feed the Badger
dot com slash events, and again, thank you to Yalkley
and everybody else who's helped us out. And I'll do
one last poke of the holes to make sure there's
nobody in the background trying to send us to superchowl.
Did you want to add anything to that, Brian, Nope, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
I gotta go pick up Lindsay. So I'm trying to
get through this.

Speaker 1 (01:40:59):
All right, Okay, we're done. If after the show you
want to send us a message feed Thebadgery dot com slash,
just the tip and I'll head it back to you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:05):
Brian. All right. Well, if you guys like this video,
please smash like subscribe if you're not already subscribed at
the bellflodifications, leave us a comment, let us know what
you guys think about what we discussed on the show today,
and please please please share this video because sharing is caring.
Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode
of Maintaining Frame, and we'll talk to you all in

(01:41:26):
the next one.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
Men's Right activists are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines.
They are talking point machines. They are impossible to fucking
deal with, especially if you have, like especially if you
have like a couple dudes who have good memory. On
top of that too, Holy shit, you're fucked