The SHOCKING Truth About MEN's Reactions to HUMILIATION Part 2 | Red Chill Cinema

Time to look at some cringe from Bryrony as well as an article that tells us what we already know about men in film.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, hello everybody, and welcome back to Honey Badger Radio.
My name is Brian and with Allison and this is
Red Pilled Cinema Up, part two of the thing that
we did on Wednesday. Sorry, I you know, I had
to go pick Lindsay up from her job right away
because she wasn't feeling well and she can't get home

(00:22):
without me, so at least not easily. But we're we're
here and again, I you know, I have until I
have about two hours, but I think it'll be less
stressful this time.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
So yeah, yeah, well, I mean at least we know
what we're doing, right, we've.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Already Yeah, and we got the shorts thing figured out too.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
So yeah, oh yeah, so that's that's a big Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I had to do like some mcguy vership, but we
got work around.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
So we got our shorts back.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah. YouTube's been thwarted.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, YouTube att attempted to steal our shorts, but we
got them back. We endeavored.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
All right, So what we're doing today and I'll do
the things, is we're going back into the film industry.
Watches article on missingry and media. And incidentally, this is
not a new thing. I can I'll give I'll give
Brian a link in our discord to a rundown of
how many times this has been pointed out in the
last seventy five years, that media is extremely misinterest and

(01:31):
that has an overtly negative portrayal of men. But yeah,
so the Industry Watch is once again said, oh wow,
or noticed that media is really misinterested and doesn't seem
to really show men in a positive light. And once
again the conclusion is, but don't get angry about it, guys,

(01:54):
because that would be bad. So anyway, we'll go through
that article and then we will finish off our our
discussion of Byrony Claire's war on birth control, alleged war
on birth control.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
So on her coverage of the way that women are
being turned into chattel again. Yeah, that's also really what
it comes down to.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Way that women are being turned into chattel again by
Byrony Claire. Yeah, so those are the things that we're
gonna be covering. If you want to send a message
at any point throughout the show, you can do so
it feedbadger dot com slash just the tip. That's feed
the Badger dot com slash just the tip, and it's
very best way for you to send us a tip
and the very best way for you to send us
your messages because we know where they go and they

(02:36):
don't go through YouTube's comment Minefield. Take take that as
you will. All right, let's keep going, Brian, all.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Right, so I guess yeah, let's go ahead and get
into it. Please smash that like button. It helps us
reach more people, especially while we're live. So if you
guys could please hit like on the stream. Okay, so
you want to get back into the article or do
you want to go to any Claire's.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Let's get back into the article. Like we stopped at
toxic masculinity, let's go back into toxic masculinity.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, let's get into some toxic masculinity. So all right,
so we this article for people who didn't see it before.
It is a website called Film industrywatch dot org and
someone actually wrote an article saying, you know what, I
think we're shitting on men too much lately and there
and they're pointing out some films and they're basically saying, look,
this is it's also making bad art, which it is objectively,

(03:33):
but yeah, what actually, you know what, I just found
that message and I will send you the link on Discord.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
By the way, guys, if you want to join us
on Discord and have these kinds of conversations and be
part of a community that is not insane, you can
go to a badger Nation dot online and get a
Discord account and join us and have conversations with people
who aren't insane. I'm just gonna say it. The rest
of the world, the rest of y'all. It's like from

(04:02):
a Hitchhiker. Have you ever read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
There's a there's this guy who has his uh his
inside of his house on the outside, so when you
go into his house, it's like the outside of his house,
but the inside is on the outside. And he says
that that's because of the rest of the world is

(04:23):
the insane asylum. That's sort of where we're at. Uh So,
But anyway, if you want to join us Badgination dot online,
help us build a community of sanity. And I sent
you the link so we can just briefly look at
how long this has been a problem or this has
been pointed out.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, you want me to read this stuff in the link,
then yeah, sure, yeah, yeah. One of our users in
movies and television, which is one of the millions of
chat rooms we have. Basically, our discord is a tartarus.
A tartis you go in and there, it's so much
bigger on the inside. So Number one, he says, men

(05:02):
have criticized media representation of male characters for decades, proving
that many current issues are long standing. Which yes, and
he says Number one Daddy with a Difference, nineteen fifty four,
Time Magazine, in television's stable of thirty five home life comedies,
it is rare, a rare show that treats father as
anything more than the mouse of the house, a bumbling

(05:24):
excuse me, a bumbling, well meaning idiot who is putty
in the hands of his wife and family. Number two
ripped off Mozart nineteen eighty five by Asa Barber, Playboy Magazine.
They're taking away our role models in movies, books and
television shows. Men are being trivialized, and the message is this,
you guys are mostly dumb, frivolous, awkward, and mouse like.
And if you don't agree with that, you're sexist. Yeah.

(05:48):
So Number three Male Bashing nineteen ninety one by Frederick Hayward,
to be a man by far. Mail bashing is the
most popular topic in my current talk shows and interviews.
Trend is particularly rampant in advertising. In a survey of
one thousand random advertisements, one hundred percent of the jerks
singled out in male female relationships were male Number four

(06:12):
Shining time Station Interviews Shining time Station Interviews Rick Siglecow
two thousand and eight by Jay grattin sodor Inland fan site,
Tom Jackson played the straight man Billy two Feathers to
balance the antics between Schemer and Stacey. We also thought
that he was a good role model for boys who

(06:33):
don't who really don't see that many grounded men on television.
So many men on kids' TV are buffoons or bad guys.
Although I think that's.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Changing, h yeah, really, no, it got worse.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Eight. I think it's starting to change. No, it's gotten worse.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
It's gotten all right. So we have something being pointed
out in nineteen fifty four, nineteen.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Eighty, but I think it gets older than that. Like,
do you remember the song anything you could do I
Can do better?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Like that that's how this is. Anything you can do
I can do better is basically just feminist propaganda. Well, actually,
if you.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Watch the movie, it's it's sort of tweaking the nose
of that attitude. So I wouldn't call that one. But
maybe Father Knows Best question Mark, which was like a
Victorian or a radio drama where it had some of these,
like maybe a little bit milder kind of tropes. But
I think this really started to get a lot of

(07:25):
traction in the fifties when Hollywood produced its radical new
reimagining of the relationship between men and women in the
form of the homemaker and provider homemaker relationship. Prior to that,
women provided in the home. Men may have gone out

(07:46):
to work, but women were providing food, stuff, scan goods,
all kinds and also doing most of the like real
labor of the home when before it was taken over
by automation. So and the and the and the change
there in Hollywood is to change society West American society
from a productive society to a consumptive society, which underpinned

(08:09):
its role as the world reserve currency. So this is
this is something that has a law like this is
this has definitely started in the fifties because of that
change in how we viewed men and women's roles and
as a result of Hollywood reimagining those roles, and then
you know, it's just gotten more and more worse and
worse and worse and worse over the years. It's always

(08:32):
getting worse, guys. I don't know. I can only imagine
what the next iteration of how we are going to disparage, minimize,
and ostracize masculinity will be. I don't even know what
it would what could it possibly look like? Because at
this point we're already at We're not even just at mockery,

(08:52):
we're at overt violence. So hmmm, which is interesting considering
recent events. Okay, let's suh all right.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
So now we're going to get into the section called
toxic masculinity from pop psychology to Hollywood gospel hardly pop psychology.
Actually it's just bullshit, but okay. Stel to this ideological
shift is the rise of the concept of toxic masculinity.
Coined in academic and therapeutic circles decades ago. The term

(09:23):
entered the popular lexicon in the twenty tens and has
since become a catch all in media and Hollywood for
the stereotypical behaviors of men that are deemed destructive aggression,
sexual entitlement, emotional repression, violence, you name it. Feminists have
adopted toxic masculinity is shorthand to characterize the misogynist, abusive,
or emotionally stunted behaviors common in men in public discourse

(09:47):
and often in these films. Toxic masculinity doesn't refer to
individual bad actors so much as it indicts an entire
system of social conditioning. It's the idea that traditional norms
of manhood, the old boys don't cry, I might makes
right and sow your wild oats mentality create a poison
that spreads through men's psyche society. I know, I just

(10:08):
want to finish the sentence at least.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Okay, Yeah, No, feminist conjecture about how societies work is
one percent wrong. It is worse than wrong. It is
to the point, you know, what we're wrong is just
it doesn't have any predictive value. Worse than wrong is

(10:30):
it has reverse predictive value. If you actually assume the
opposite of what feminism would say to assume generally, that's
more accurate to reality. So feminist framework is absolutely a joke. Okay.
And furthermore, these what they identify as so called toxic masculinity.

(10:54):
Even if we set aside the large amount of domestic
and sexual violence that women them says are responsible for
the men who engage in these activities, the biggest causal
factor has this is a new this is new stuff
coming out. The biggest causal factor is having been subject
to multiple forms of abuse as a child. All right,

(11:15):
So this isn't This isn't the behavior of men who
are socialized. This is the behavior of men who have
been abused and not like it is a tiny minority
of men who have been subject to multiple, multiple types
of abuse that actually go on to do this kind
of abusive behavior. It's like four percent of them, four percent.

(11:38):
But this is the biggest causal factor identified that that
boys who are hurt by their caregivers and the people
that they should be able to trust go on to
be aggressive or more likely to go on to be aggressive.
And again this is a tiny minority of even those
boys go on to be more aggressive, to be more violent,

(12:00):
to engage in the behaviors that have been they have
been subject to. Right, feminist theory or feminist conjecture is wrong.
It is wrong about the source of these behaviors. It
is wrong about the complicity of the rest of the
world in developing these behaviors. It is just flat out wrong.

(12:22):
And the fact that they control how we view ourselves
as men and women is terrifying. You want to know
why everything is going to shit? Okay, and I wouldn't
I would even include that. I'm not saying it's wrong,
but I'm saying that the conservative attempt to correct this

(12:44):
is has lost so much ground because we are now
fighting over a basic function of a society, which is
to police its borders. Right, we are fighting that has
become politicized under Obama, he deported way more than Trump
ever deported. And yet this issue has become politicized when
it is a simple function of a functioning society to

(13:07):
do so to protect its borders. That is just a
that's like having skin, right. We are now arguing over
whether or not societies have the right to have skin.
That is going. That is losing a lot of ground, friends,
And the reason why we're losing all this ground and
keep losing this ground, and the issues regarding myss injury

(13:27):
in the media just keep getting worse, is because feminists
define the relationship between men and women. That is at
the heart of it. It is a systemic issue that
they have claimed the most important definitional of definitional relationship
in our society, and they define it and they pump

(13:48):
it out into the media and everything gets worse. We
are a society at war with itself because of that. Okay,
I will let you do a rejoinder to that, Brian,
I'm just gonna what or do you want to reply
to that? Do you want to say that I said
anything wrong?

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Or no? I mean, no, I know I don't have
an issue with any of that. Yeah, I mean, I mean,
you know how I feel about toxic masculinity. It's nonscience.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, it is nonscience.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
It's yeah, it's nonsense, nonsense, nonscience.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's not even it is not even approaching science. Right
if somebody pulled up something, it even isn't even approaching
something that can be like, nobody think about it. If
you're a guy and people start talking about men oppressing women,
just say do you honestly believe that?

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
And people will just be like, they won't have an
answer for it because it's against their own common sense
and they know it is this lie perpetuates itself because
nobody says, do you really believe that? Because the instant
that people men women start saying, do you really believe

(15:06):
that men oppress women? People are just like it's like
you will see the blue screen of death crossed their
eyes because they have no answer to that, because it
just exposes the lack of common sense, the lack of
rationality to it. But do you honestly believe that? All right,

(15:29):
that's all you have to do, because they have no
answer to it, because this is a situation of the
emperor has no clothes. We all have collectively agreed to
believe this nonsense, and the only way that this nonsense
maintains itself is our collective agreement to not question it
at all. Ever, Yep, okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
So toxic masculinity again. I'm glad that there is an
attempt to critique it. I just think is like a
little bit behind what's been going on. But I appreciate
that they're at least trying to figure this out. So
let's see. Uh yeah, so let's go to the next paragraph.

(16:13):
Hollywood's new narratives have embraced this concept with zeal in
film after film. The worst male characters are practically case
studies in toxic masculinity, domineering, violent, unable to empathize, and
ultimately pathetic. I don't want to say anything about that.
I mean, yes, but then again, like there is one
thing I wanted to add from before. There is no

(16:34):
distinction between toxic masculinity and just plain old masculinity. It's
all toxic. Like there's no there's no point in adding
the descriptor because the way that it's the way that
it's treated is they take everything masculine and then they
make it cartoonishly absurd, and then they call it normal
and they say this is what men are, you know,

(16:56):
So like men having an interest in women, for example,
just like women you know, sexually or or whatever it is,
they always have to take it further to the point
of being predatory, violent, rape, et cetera. And then but
they never present a guy who's just interested in a girl,
like just or just appreciates attractive women. That's just an example,

(17:19):
you know what I mean. Like, if a man is
competitive in fiction and they're trying to put this toxic
masculinity narrative, there are no healthy competitions. Everything is like
hyper aggressive, hyper dominant cartoonishly, you know, almost like homo
erotic in a way, like they'll try to suggest that

(17:41):
because that's another way that these people shame men is
they accuse them of secretly being gay, as though being
gay is somehow bad, but it's not bad because that's
homophobic and they can't do that. But at the same
time they think you might be gay but closet or something,
so they try to suggest it with their media the
way they tell their stories. And it's basically there there
is no such thing as normal, healthy masculinity in the

(18:03):
world of our media. It's all bad. So there's no
point in making the distinction, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Oh yeah, no, there isn't because and there's no point
making the distinction. They and again this is an emperor
has no closed situation. They don't want to admit to
their statements that no, we mean all masculinity is bad.
But just if you want to know that they mean
all masculinity is bad, just ask them what is positive masculinity,
and that means traits and behaviors you associate with men

(18:31):
in masculinity more than you associate with with women in femininity,
and the same way that you associate toxic traits with
men in masculinity. So that's a complete stumper for them.
The best they can do is to say, well, traditional
notions of masculinity had these positive traits, and I said,
well do you, And the answer is, of course know,
because they think that associating those positive traits with men

(18:54):
is misogyny because you're not associating them with women. So
they have absolutely no answer, no real answer to what
is positive masculinity. So what they're saying when they say
toxic masculinity is all masculinity. They think all masculinity is
toxic and not just stuff that we have associated with men,
like competition, like stoicism and that kind of stuff. They

(19:17):
also associate gender neutral ills like sexual violence and domestic
violence with men, right, And then they associate it not
with men who are abused, which is what the science says,
and it's a minority of men who are abused. Okay,
what it actually is is men who are abused plus
genetic factors that lead to low impulse control. Right, That

(19:41):
is a tiny minority of all men. So even if
you abuse like all men, most of them won't go
on to abuse others. They'll just take it even as children,
they'll just take it. Only the ones who also have
impulse control problems will go on to abuse, and not
even all of them. Right, So this is an extremely
unlikely occurrence with very specific parameters in reality. And they

(20:05):
attribute it to the relationship between men. They attribute it
to male socialization, They attribute it to the boys club,
they attribute it to masculinity. That is absolute bullshit, one
hundred percent bullshit, And everybody knows it's bullshit in academia.
Even I think the feminists know it's bullshit, but they
keep doing it because they are pushing a particular version

(20:28):
of the relationship between men and women that makes the money.
And that's what this has always been about, since changing
the female role from homesteader to homemaker, consumptive consumer, from
producer to consumer. Since that moment, it has been about
making money and not just income because this happened well
before women women went into the workforce. This happened when

(20:51):
Hollywood constructed the homemaker. It is been about money. Since then.
It has been about money, and it's all that it's about.
That's it. They are destroying the relationship between men and
women to make money and to control people.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Because that's to guide the culture. There's some there's like
I said, really at this point, yeah, force the culture,
but like, yeah, it's it's to control people. That that's
what allegations of sexism are too. They're just ways to
control people. That's what toxic masculinity as a concept is.
It's designed to control male behavior. It's to make men
feel like they need to act a different way so

(21:30):
that they're not being toxic because, surprise, surprise, the last
thing men want to do in general is harm women
and be dangerous to them. So if women say this
is toxic and I don't like it, men are going
to be like, well, I'm going to try to change it.
And at least that's what the hope is. But anyway,
back to the article, the Barbie movie outright name checks

(21:50):
patriarchy is Ken's newfound religion, lampooning its absurdity, promising young
women all but uses the praise toxic masculinity and its
premise character feign's helpless drunkenness precisely to expose men's ingrained
predatory responses and behind the scenes. This viewpoint has been
validated by mainstream institutions. Yes, all this is true and

(22:13):
here we go in twenty eighteen, and we covered this, like,
this is all stuff that we've covered on this show
when it happened. In twenty eighteen, the influential American Psychological
Association released its first ever guidelines for therapists working with
boys and men, and it pointedly declared that traditional masculinity
is psychologically harmful. So they're not even saying toxic. They're

(22:34):
calling it traditional masculinity. They've also called it hegemonic masculinity.
They that basically it's just masculinity though, like it's just
all masculine things and even like Alison said, even non
gendered things that men do, you know, become women. They
become associated, Yeah, that men and women do, but they

(22:55):
become associated only with men and you know and basically
erase from women.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
So yeah, yeah, exactly, they are becoming raised from women.
The thing is that when they when sorry, guys, I
have I've lost my train of thought, but yeah, they
just associate these negative things with women. They basically may
our men. They basically make men into scapegoats for everything

(23:23):
negative in society. And they do it because this narrative
makes money. That's it. Yeah, Okay, And it's also allows
them to control people, or justify control and justify more
and more government overreach. Because if you basically say that
the natural relationship, the most basic natural relationship in society

(23:44):
is tainted beyond repair, that is, that is the command narrative,
master narrative of government control. Is it. There's nothing that
that government can't justify controlling at that point, because that
that is every relationship, the relationship between men and women,
is the relationship between men and men, the relationship between

(24:06):
women and women, the relationship between everybody and everybody. You
control that, You got the master narrative, and you have
given yourself the right to put your nose into everybody's
business and control every transaction in society.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
All right, Yeah, so uh, you know what the whole
thing about. Well, let me finish this paragraph and then
I'll say okay. So, the APA warned that socializing boys
to be stoic, competitive, and aggressive leads to a host
of problems, from mental illness to violence. In effect, the
APA distilled toxic masculinity into an official stance the time.
Honor traits of manhood, strength, stoicism, and dominance were recast

(24:44):
as risk factors or pathologies to be curbed. Yes, that's right.
So like what I was thinking, like like as an
example of like this kind of way of using this
language to control people, it's like magic in caseations. You know,
you call a man toxic, or you talk about toxic masculinity,

(25:06):
you don't even have to accuse someone in particular of
doing it to cause a reaction in them, because they're
gonna suddenly be wary of it. I mean, basically every
male feminist is essentially trained by this word. That's why
they're the they can be so like you know, aggressive
against other men when it comes to protecting women, because

(25:27):
that's like the way that it's been engineered. And I
was thinking about puppies. So when puppies play, they you
know how dogs play, They use their mouth, that's like
basically their primary way of playing, and they play bite,
you know, Like Jojo play bites me all the time
when I want to play with him. And it's because

(25:49):
he knows how much pressure to apply when he's playing.
And he's been doing it since he was a puppy too,
because we used to do dog sitting and we'd have
other dogs over and Jojo would play with all the
other dogs. So he's very good with dogs and people.
But sometimes when puppies are learning, they might accidentally bite
a little too hard on the other dog, and when

(26:09):
they do, the other dog will give a yelp. And
if it's not a psycho dog that the one that's
doing the biting, if it's like a well socialized animal,
it will immediately realize that it's hurt the other dog
and change his behavior. It'll stop, or it'll check on
him or whatever. And that reaction is the same kind
of thing they're trying to get out of men. So

(26:31):
it's like the whole you're hurting me, and then men
are supposed to immediately stop and say, oh my god,
what do I do to stop this? But they're making
an appeal to that in men while also claiming it
doesn't exist in men because of toxic masculinity. So when
you realize it is just a method of control, then
you know, you can like discern, you know, like the

(26:55):
difference between hurting someone in reality, and then you can
like make a men's for that, or you realize that
they're manipulating you, and then you can you know, go
from there basically like this is a control thing you're doing, so.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
And I remembered the thing that I wanted to point out.
You notice how they're talking about traditional masculinity. And what's
interesting is, again, if I say, hey, what do you
recognize that that's positive about about masculinity? Often they'll refer
to traditional masculinity. But now traditional masculinity is in the
sites as being the cause of men's mental health issues. So,

(27:35):
in other words, masculinity is not maybe not a disease yet,
but a precursor to a disease. It's kind of like
smoking before getting blung cancer. It's a precursor behavior before
disease occurs. Yep, oh, good lord.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Anyway, all right, back to the article. So critics have
noted that this concept, once fringe, is now virtually orthodoxy
and liberal media entertainment. The term toxic masculinity itself might
not be spoken within these films as dialogue, but its
ethos undergirds them. Impressed Junk gets. In interviews, creatives frequently

(28:15):
talk about examining or deconstructing toxic masculinity through their work.
There's another movie that I think, I know we tried
to talk about it before, but Allison didn't watch it,
but it was a It was a folk horror movie
called Men, and it was basically this. It was it
presented a world, this scary world this woman went to

(28:35):
where all the men look like the same guy and
they all had like a kind of they were watch
in one of the traits. Did you watch it?

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yep, it was. It was bizarre.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, it was bizarre, and it was trying to be
I think it was up its own ass a lot.
But the but the but the takeaway was you had
all these men in this little town and in England,
in the countryside, and they were all played by the
same actor, and he was doing different accents and stuff
like showing his range, I guess you could say. But
all the characters he played were like a different facet

(29:11):
of masculinity and it was all bad. Like they were
dismissing you know. There were dismissive cops that were like,
oh you know, what were you wearing? There was it
was all of the feminists. It was like the checkboxes,
you know. There was like the predatory priest. There was
the violent boy like it and the the you know,
and there were no good men in the movie at all,

(29:33):
like none. Even her ex boyfriend was a terrible piece
of shit and it was obviously just doing this. It
was like it was like something that I think was
probably made so that it could be shown in schools.
That's what I think, like for some film class so
then they could like talk about essentially not art because
it was not good in my opinion, but rather the concepts.

(29:55):
But I'm just saying, like, this is just another example
of how you can you know, they put all these
talks masculinity themes in movies without actually saying the term
toxic masculinity because you don't have to because to them,
it's just masculinity anyway. So they're just showing men as
they see them. So because everyone in Hollywood has daddy issues,

(30:16):
apparently the movie is called Men. Yeah, it's just called Men.
I forget the horror director, but he has I think
it's Garland. Alex Garland I think made it. But anyway, okay,
so let's see in press junkets and interviews, creatives frequently

(30:38):
talk about examining or deconstructing toxic masculinity through their work.
That's why I brought up Men. For many, it's seen
as a necessary re education of the audience, but others
argue it has become a blunt instrument pathologizing all things male.
Hey remember Felt? I mean that one. That's another one.

(31:01):
It was essentially about a serial killer, a woman seal killer,
but it was trying to justify what she does.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
If you if you ever need to like jumpstart a puke,
just just watch Felt.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
FBLT.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
It's like you got really your your stomach's really like
burning and in pain, you know, and you just you
want it over with Squatchfelt it is. It is the
essence of nausea.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yep, Hey, I got a super chow.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
It's a two parter though it's fifty and five. Oh,
the pung raiser is not up, so I don't know
where the fifty went.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Uh. Probably don't I put the ability to put like
a tip in on the tip. Oh yeah, okay, so
it might have gone in there. I could take a look.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
But all right, well, Gary Thomas, thank you so much.
Gary gives us fifty and five and says, speaking of
male representation in media, I watched Ordinary People starring Donald
Sutherland and Mary Tyler Moore yesterday. That movie would never
be allowed to be made today because it shows men
being more emotionally mature than women in dealing with tragedy. Hmmm,

(32:15):
ordinary people, that's a is that an old movie? It's well,
Mary Tyler Moore, it's got to be old.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I wonder if that might have been an accent, because
it looks like it's two super chow's. Unless it was
really eager to do like a specifically that amount. I
don't know, so I hopefully it wasn't an accident. Again,
thank you for that amount?

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yeah, Gary, thank you.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Gary, Thank you Gary. Gary the snail.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Oh all right anyway, Okay, So for many it's seen
as a necessary re education of the audience, but others
argue that it's become a blunt instrument pathologizing all things male.
For conservatives, the concept of toxic masculinity knocks down the

(33:03):
virtues and ways of life they hold dear, strength, honor, duty,
and bravery. One observer rights, noting how this rhetoric essentially
recasts positive male attributes as negatives. I would just say
that I don't think it's a conservative thing to just
want men to be normal, and I hate that they
associate it with that. Maybe that's because that's what it

(33:24):
sounds like these days, but I don't think that that
is inherently unless the paradigm you're making is that you're
either if you're if you're okay with being a man,
like your identity as a man is okay as it
is regardless of what that looks like. If that is
considered to be conservative, then I guess that's what it is.
But like, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to die on

(33:46):
that hill. Like, I don't think that's good. That's like
you're alienating half of the population by saying, you know,
I don't know by describing it that way, but I
I mean, I have cause to believe that that is
actually the goal.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
So no, it's at this point. It is like it's
at this point masculinity is everything that the left isn't
Apparently everything that you left wants to escapegoat. It all
comes down to masculinity. If you look at the uh,
the the Smithsonian's list of white behaviors, they're all basically

(34:21):
masculine behaviors.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yep, because the Smithsonians on what whiteness is, it's all
masculine stuff. Yeah. But anyway, okay, well that's what I've
been saying too, by the way, for a long time
with regards to all this. You know, these other kinds
of conversations happening around different identity groups, and I'm like,

(34:45):
this is all just men and women though, like at
the end of the day, all the other stuff doesn't
really matter. But anyway, all right, Uh, Indeed, with that,
whenever you traditionally masculine trade is viewed with suspicion, culture
edges towards implying that masculinity itself is a disease. That's yeah,

(35:05):
that's where we're where. We're way past that though. But
nowhere was this cultural clash more evident than in the
reaction to a certain shaving razor commercial in twenty nineteen.
Gillette's now famous advertisement, launched in the heat of hashtag
me too, directly invoked the phrase toxic masculinity and urged
men to be better, to intervene against harassment, to shed

(35:25):
the old boys will be boys excuses. Also, it produced
a lot of memes. A lot of memes came out
of that. The ad showed scenes of bullying, cat calling,
and boardroom sexism, asking pointedly, is this the best a
man can get? A twist on the company's classic slogan.
The backlash was immediate and ferocious. Many men and some

(35:48):
women blasted the ad as an unfair generalization that implied
most men were sexual harassmers or violent thugs and was
merely virtue signaling corporate pandering. Prominent and conservative actor James Wood,
it's accused you let of jumping on the men are
horrible campaign. Do you want to say anything right now?
Or or is that Oh Alison's not here right now? Okay,

(36:10):
I looked away for a second.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I can hear you. I'm here. I just I'm trying
to fix this damn light that's blowing out the background
and causing all of these like it changes how the
light balances so that it makes my face dimmer, and
so the only way I have lost the click So
here are your technical difficulties everyone. I've lost the clicker

(36:35):
to that light. So it's blown out the background. It's
now beaming on Grow Grow, and I have to get
rid of it or my husband is actually going to
get rid of it. So that's going to happen momentarily.
So I'm just dealing with that right now. So I
am here. I am listening to you, Brian, I'm just distracted. Distracted, yes, okay,

(36:56):
but continue.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
All right? Anyway? Uh on YouTube, the commercials dislikes quickly
far out numbered likes. The Gellette saga is instructive. It
revealed how polarized the concept of toxic masculinity have become.
To one side, it was a long overdue call for accountability.
To the other, it felt like an all out attack
on male identity. I don't think that it was polarized.

(37:20):
If Gillette ended up having to retract it, I think
that you guys were just wrong about that. Like I
don't know, like this whole idea of like, man, this
is who this has people divided. It's like, no, you're wrong,
and some people stupidly agreed with you, But that means
that you're still wrong. So that's basically what the result is.

(37:40):
It's not oh my god, my opinions they're just the same,
but they just happened to be opposite. No, there's a
correct answer and there's an incorrect answer, and you guys
have chosen the incorrect answer, or at least the people
that you're talking about that think that this is a
long overdue call for accountability, Like that's never happened before.
Do you remember in the Gillette commercial, there was like

(38:00):
there was a clip of and this is the one
that got Memed the most of an attractive woman walking
on the street and a white dude that noticed her
and wanted to talk to her, and his black friend
stepped in, or maybe it was some random black guy
that was there and basically put his hand on his
chest and said, no, man, it's not cool. Not cool.
He literally says not cool, not cool, which, by the way,

(38:22):
is in And the reason I'm bringing it up is
that it is in no way harassment. Like all he
wanted to do was talk to her, nothing else. She
was in public, she was walking down the street looking good,
you know, skin glistening, titties bouncing like that one girl
in the other video. That was like, why isn't anybody

(38:43):
approaching me anymore? And he was going to do it.
Nobody on there looked creepy or unattractive or anything. And
his friend's just like, no, that's not cool. And that's
supposed to be an example of toxic masculinity approaching women
in public. That's it. That's all. It was so just bear.
That was the That was how normalized it was as

(39:03):
a concept. You know what it came from. I think
do you remember that viral video that was one of
the early viral videos of a woman walking around New
York City for ten hours, and it was like it
was like a compilation of every time she got cat
called or somebody said something to her. And it turned
out I think it produced about I want to say,
like two minutes of content that they ended up putting out.

(39:28):
I think that was what the inspiration was.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, okay, I've solved the issue with the lighting.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
All right, Well that's good. I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
All right, Okay.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Hollywood's current crop of films decidedly take the former stance.
They presume toxic masculinity is real and pernicious, and they
set out to critique or lampoon it. The result, intentionally
or not, is that a lot of traditional male behavior
now shows up on screen coded sick, stoic, emotionally distant
father figure. Likely he'll be portrayed as failing his family.

(40:05):
And then they give an example. The Banshees of in
His Sharon and The Whale in recent years both depict lonely,
taciturn men whose inability to communicate leads to personal tragedy.
I never seen those movies. I think The Whale is
the one with Brendan Fraser and he's like over, he's
like a really fat guy, and I thought I thought

(40:26):
his character was gay though I thought he was like
fat and gay.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
So gay is this straight man of gay? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Gay men are the straight white people of gay people.
So anyway, and the benshees of in a Sheron I
think was when I was kind of interested in because
it has I don't remember. I think it's an Irish thing.
But anyway, a man who loves flirting or womanizing, he's
probably going to be either a clown like the Ken's

(40:54):
in Barbie or a villain. The charming date rapist of
promising young woman in righteous anger or physical courage in
a man traits that for decades, where the backbone of
hero archetypes are now often shown as double edge or
outright dangerous, this isn't the same and you know, let
me go back to that real quick, righteous anger, physical courage.

(41:15):
They are often used in hero stereotype or hero archetypes,
but they're also I think something that like we need
men to have, like if we want to, like, who's
going to protect you from danger if not someone who
has you know, a sense of physical courage in them

(41:36):
or righteous anger that has been encouraged. Like what, okay,
let's back up for a second. We have discouraged this,
this trait in men so much that they are and
I don't even disagree with them doing this, but they're
literally not stepping in when women are in trouble, you know,

(41:57):
because what happens when they do. Look at Daniel Penny,
the guy who intervened when a homeless guy was freaking
out on the train threatening to kill people, and Daniel
Penny stepped in and he got arrested for his trouble.
So like the the you know again that this is
why men aren't aren't stepping in, and it's and it's

(42:18):
something that we just don't encourage because we do consider
it to be toxic or at least the you know,
our media is trying to say that. So yeah, they're
they're trying. It's it is on purpose.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Anyway, Yep, I'm back, I'm good.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
Okay, okay, all right. This isn't to say there are
no positive male characters anymore, but in the films drawing
the most buzz, those characters tend to be supporting players
or deliberately non traditional men. For example, Ken and Barbie
only learn sympathy once he breaks down in tears and
admits his insecurities, essentially when he relinquishes the performative alpha

(42:57):
male mask. I don't want to talk about Barbie anymore.
It's a remarkable cultural pivot. We've gone from James Bond
seducing women and saving the day with naria thought to
his macho antics to a landscape where the character a character. Huh.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
The assumption here is that there's a backlash because yeah,
James Bond. And also, you guys like this is flanderizing
James Bond. You know that in Goldfinger his only weapon
was his sexuality because he had to basically seduce pussy
galore to his side to get anything done in that movie, right,

(43:40):
So he he was actually playing what we what today
we would consider a more feminine role, which is the
role of seducers.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah, and that's also not that's actually not a unique
thing for even uh stuff before that, where you have
the hero, the protagonist in a situation where he has
to use his sexuality to charm a woman who is
his enemy to like help him. And this is the
common this is a common thing that they have done

(44:12):
in a lot of the pulp stories like like Flash Gordon.
Do you remember Flash Gordon? You ever see that one
with the Queen soundtrack? Flash has to escape prison. He's
like being captured or Who's gonna be executed by Ming
the Merciless And it is Ming's daughter, Princess Aura that
saves him because she wants him, she desires him sexually.

(44:33):
But but she but like it's only because of that
that he was basically powerless. Like it wasn't like, you know,
it wasn't like he was trying to charm her because
he wasn't he actually was interested in Dale. But yeah,
like it's not uncommon that you would find these stories
where you know, a man, either his his charm or

(44:56):
his looks or his sexuality manages to essentially gain him
favor with a woman who eventually turns to his side.
And it's not even about like just banging them, because
like I said, Flash didn't didn't bang her, He didn't
get Princess Aura. Yeah, this is a shame because she
was badass. That was a hot chick. But Ornella MOUTI

(45:20):
look her up anyway, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, well, I mean it's like the men using their
sexuality in a pro social way. And I mean there's
also plenty of the reverse in films too, of course,
that's disappeared in current cinema, and uh, and they ignore it,
they ignore that this is this was something that James
Bond did in one of his at least one of
his excabades. And and also what's wrong with escapist fiction

(45:49):
for men? What's wrong with that? Right? What's wrong? And
also why is it seen as counter to reality? James
Bond is canonically a very attractive man and very suave
and has all this kind of gadgets that would suggest
some kind of uh, you know, access to wealth or

(46:11):
at least resources, and as we know, these are the
kinds of men that women like. So it's accurate to reality, right,
It's it's so it's it's not even denying what women
like in men. Okay, So you can't even say that, oh,
James Bond is a schlub and it's just a power,
it's just a it's just a wish fulfillment fantasy for

(46:33):
schlubby males. That's that's not even you can't even say
that it's entirely consistent with what observable reality is in
regards to men like James Bond and how well they
do in the dating market today. Right, That's that's that's
patently observable. So what what is your complaint this guy?
And I'm and I'm not even talking to feminists. I'm

(46:54):
talking to this man. James Bond did not need a backlash.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
No, there's nothing wrong with No, did not need a backlash.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
The male characters from the fifties and the forties did
not need a backlash. Okay, And if you actually watch
those films, the female characters are better rendered and they
better command their space than they do now. I remember
watching back to back some Agatha Christie movies from like

(47:27):
the fifties and then again in the naughties or whatever
we're calling this current era of trash, and the women
in the Agatha Christie movies from the fifties absolutely commanded
the space that they were in. They were characters, every
single one of them had a verifiable character and was

(47:51):
riveting on the screen. And I remember watching this like this,
this it was a I don't call the exact title,
but they were on an island. Someone had been murdered
and the I think it was it was a female
amateur sleuth who was trying to figure it all out.
Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure. Oh no,

(48:12):
it might have been Proo either one of those two.
And every single woman in that show was a force,
like she was memorable, she had amazing lines, charismatic and
they were all and a lot of them were like fighting.
So it was it was this fascinating thing going on

(48:33):
and it was riveting. And then we watched very probably
not a good idea, We watched a remake of one
of I think Agatha's Christie's less impressive stories from a
few years a few years ago from today, so in
the twenties, and I remember there was one scene. First

(48:56):
of all, it had a lot of gross out, which
I guess is a thing now. But then there was
one scene where I kicked you not four women were
quailing in terror in rapid succession, and every time there
was a man and a woman on the screen, the
woman was like, I'm like, it's such a stark change.

(49:19):
Like the fifties. The woman comes into the room and
she's like, I'm arrived, you know, And and there's this
physical dog there's even like this kind of deference that
these women in the fifties got physically that I don't
know if women get anymore. And you know, and and
they would command the room with their.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Wife when a woman walked in, all the men was
fanned up. Yeah, the command or something.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
They commanded the room with their wit and charisma. And
then we go to the twenty twenties and everyone's like, like,
good lord, Like this is a regression. We go from
female characters who are fascinating to female characters who are terrified.

(50:05):
They just catch a whiff of a man and they're like, oh,
are they just melt into a puddle of nothing? Or alternatively,
they turn into these girl bosses who just kick the
shit out of every man in the room.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Absolutely absurdly, because this is just total bullshit, Like it's
believable for a woman to be charismatic, it's believable for
her to have a sharp wit, it's believable.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
That stuff is believable. A ninety pound woman kicking a
man in the face is not believable unless she he's
paid for her to do it and it's part of
some kind of scene. But this stuff is it's just anyway,
Just to get back to it, there was nothing wrong

(50:50):
with cinema in the fifties. There's nothing wrong with cinema
in the forties, the twenties, the thirties, go watch it.
There was nothing wrong with how women were depicted. Nothing.
I just read recently watched something called Cat People from
the nineteen forty two and again women have.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
That one.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
It is sort of it's thrill. It's too slow. It's
not really as scary as a horror movie. It's more
like a thriller. But the women in the show again command,
you know, physically, like their space. But it's interesting because
the men are depicted in a different way. The man
who basically the story is that he marries a wear

(51:33):
cat okay spoilers guys for something, Yeah, and she can't
actually consummate with him because if she does, she's terrified
that she'll kill him. And he's actually incredibly patient with her.
But while he's going through this, he has a friend,
a female friend, work colleague who's sort of supporting him

(51:54):
through this and trying to help him, and he starts
to grow closer to her because his wife life is
becoming really scary else to describe it, and she's it
comes through And the thing is the way he's depicted,
he's depicted as genuine. He's depicted as warm and loving

(52:14):
and also terrified by some of the crap that's going on,
but at the same time as he steps up to
actually protect his his female friend, work colleague. And it's
it's really, it's it's really, it's really interesting to see
how the relationships between men and women have evolved since then.
And there's no there's no like. The women in the

(52:35):
show are not dismissed as characters. Neither the wearcat nor
the female colleague who's a friend who eventually they I guess,
have a develop a romantic attachment, not before he does.
He gets his his relationship an old or as marriage
and old, but they develop a romantic attachment. And neither
of the women in this because it's a very small story.

(52:56):
Actually none of the women, even the cleaning lady, has
more character and charisma and presence, and the waitress and
the and the the the woman at the receptionist, all
of which who had jobs. And the wear cat also
had a job and had her own apartment. What a surprise,
considering she wasn't allowed to have a bank account, supposedly

(53:16):
according to feminists. Yeah, go watch these old movies to
find out how feminists are actually full of shit. But anyway,
every single female character in that movie was fascinating. Was
it had her moment to shine and she shone and
she was in She was charismatic, she commanded a space, witty.
Something was cool about her. And you do you watch

(53:38):
today and you either have the victims of patriarchy or
the smashers of patriarchy, and that's it for women, or
or the sinister house of the sinister conservative woman. That's it,
that's it. Those are the three archetypes of woman.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
You know, that red wife, or you have your patriarchy
smasher or your patriarchy victim. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Mean the smoking cleaning lady who does like this chain
smoking cleaning lady watching all these antics. She was hilarious
in a way that the woman and behind the reception
of the colleague woman's apartment building. Oh she also had
her own apartment by the way, in the forties. Amazing, huh.

(54:27):
She was. She had like this this sort of brassy
Bostonian accent and she was amusing too. So, like every
single female character was was fun and cool. And now
we have this in the modern era, we have Mary Sue,
We have We have boss Babe, who all she needs

(54:52):
to learn is that she's enough. We have the sinister
conservative woman as a potential villain right, who doesn't realize
how oppressed she is, but perpetuates oppression anyway. And then
we have the the put upon traditional woman whose love
for a man is going to be her greatest weakness.

(55:15):
Those are those are our archetypes today, stereotypes today, Guys,
isn't it fun? Isn't isn't media engrossing? Okay, m.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
All right, let's see.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, Peter Houston says in It's a Wonderful life, lots
of women seem to have bank accounts.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yes, yeah, weird, It is weird.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Huh. It's like feminism is telling you a line of bullshit.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Almost almost all right. It's a remarkable cultural pivot. We've
gone from James Bond seducing women and saving the day
with naria thought to his macho antics, to a landscape
where a character like Bond is presented as a problematic
relic or subverted as an object of critique in essence masculinity.
It's has been put on trial at our movies, Yes,
and the verdict from the creative class more often than

(56:05):
not is guilty as charged gender politics and the culture
war on masculinity. This cinematic trend doesn't exist in a vacuum.
It mirrors and feeds into a wider socio political context.
In American culture, especially, gender has become intensely politicized to
reign in recent years, with masculinity often in the crosshairs.

(56:27):
I would add, though, I know they're saying American culture especially,
but I don't know, man, the UK is catching up
if they're not like surpassing it, because a lot of these,
a lot of the films that we're talking about are
like they have they're basically UK movies on Hollywood budgets,
and also like they're they're actually putting some of this

(56:51):
content into school curricula like adolescents, which is in fact,
you know, a part of this whole machine. So anyway,
but yeah, it's basically all over the well, I wouldn't
even say just the West, It's all over the world.
Like there was a video game that came out from
Japan recently, Silent Hill f and apparently the F stands

(57:15):
for feminism because it is like has nothing to do
with the franchise historically of Silent Hill. It was like
a feminist movie that they decided they needed to change
the title of because they thought if they didn't have
the word Silent Hill in it somewhere, it wouldn't sell.
But it was essentially about a girl with daddy issues,
and like, you know, it's it's it's a feminist video game,

(57:38):
like and this is Japanese, like this is not American,
so but anyway, so yeah, no, it's all over the world.
The war on men that some commentators decry is in
large part a reaction to the kind of messaging Hollywood
is now amplifying, messaging that aligns closely with progressive, feminist

(57:59):
informed politics. Indeed, the US Democratic Party's messaging and left
leaning media in the Trump and post Trump years have
frequently portrayed traditional masculinity as something suspect or needing reform. Meanwhile,
conservatives have seized on this to rally men to their side,
arguing that the left is demonizing half the population. All right,
I don't like this language about conservatives seizing on it.

(58:22):
If you're just treating men like normal, that's not seizing
on it. That's just not attacking them. And it's not
like conservatives don't have their own way of attacking men too.
It's just more of the old fashioned way of doing it.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, I mean I would argue that it might be
the more of the old fashioned way of doing it.
But also a lot of conservatives are failing in actually
holding women accountable to the old fashion expectations. And I
would even say that I'm not even sure if a
lot of conservatives realize that what they considered old faction
expectations is a Hollywood a radical departure from what was

(59:00):
acted of men and women constructed by Hollywood. The the
there was always an expectation that women provide for their families,
that women not be just units of consumption, offloading all
of their work to automation, right, So that that was
that was never a like a traditional role for women.

(59:22):
Go look at Proverbs thirty one and ask yourself what
kind of woman that describes. And so I would say
that a lot of that, as you have said, a
lot of what we call conservative now is also entrenched
in very modern notions of male and female informed by feminism.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah, it's feminism still, It's just it's just feminism from
like twenty years ago, that's all.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Yeah, And but like again, just just if you want
to try, just if you want to see how actually
intelligent the foundational beliefs of feminism are. Just ask people
when they bring this stuff up, just say do you
really believe that menipress women? And watch them stutter, because

(01:00:13):
it is going to force this nonsense that we've all
decided that we believe in conflict with everybody's common sense,
Like we can avoid it if we don't actually point
it out right, we can all believe it if we
don't actually point it out. But the instant you pointed
out and you say do you actually believe that menipress women?

(01:00:35):
You will get people stuttering. I can even get feminists
stuttering over that one. I've even gotten it so that
feminists won't say yes to that because they know it's absurd,
and everybody knows it's absurd. The only reason it continues
is because nobody says, do you honestly believe that? Do you?

(01:01:00):
As you are trying to appeal to the very men
who you say hate women absolutely and would never ever
ever care and socialize each other to hate women. And
not just they don't just hate women, they they go
out of their way to teach it to each other
you think that that you're going to appeal to people
like that, and of course they'll use like, oh, black

(01:01:22):
people appeal to white No, black people didn't appeal to
white people. They appealed to a culturally distinct subset of
white people against a different set of white people. They
never appealed directly to the people who were enslaving them
or the ones who wanted to march them back to
Africa without a boat. They appealed to the northerners with

(01:01:45):
a completely different economy and a completely different culture. Right,
That's how it worked. No one in the history of
anyone has ever appealed directly to the people oppressing them.
They've always appealed to a third party that had an
interest and invested interest in the destruction of the power
of their oppressors. The way it works. So, where's the

(01:02:08):
third party that women appeal to when they talk about
men oppressing them? Hm? Hm, where's the third party? The
answer is men, which means that they don't impress women.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Okay, all right, I got another super chow from Gary
Thomas who gives us five and says the extra fifty
dollars was an accident, but it's fine. I can afford
the extra expense this week, also as an Agatha Christie fan,
I think the old movie adaptation Alison is speaking of
might be evil under the sun.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Yeah, it might be evil under the sun, but it
was really And also the reveal of the of the
female that there was a woman who did the murder
and her reveal was cool too because she had actually
pretended to be this meek, mousey woman who was under

(01:02:57):
the thumb of the guy, and in order to solve
the murder, I think it was Poirot, he had to
figure out that that was a complete fiction and that
she was actually also sort of a diva, like the
woman who was originally suspect, actually know, the woman who
ended up getting killed, who was not a very sympathetic

(01:03:18):
murder victim, but nevertheless she was a fascinating character. Okay, yeah, no,
but it was like what I took my takeaway was
every single woman had some brought something to the scrain
in that movie and also in Cat People, every single
one of them brought something to the scrain. Can you
say that about women today in film?

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Mm hmm. I mean I don't think it's I think
there's an attempt to do that, but I don't think
it was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
It's always those four, those four characters, and there's nothing
really unique about any of them.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
No, they're all formula.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
They're all feminine in relation to feminism. It's the revelation
to the feminist formula, formula of reality, how women are
only basically for our four stereotypes and that's it. And
none of them have their own unique character, there are
an unique twist, their wit, their secrets, you know, none,
it's nothing like that. It's all just bland, increasingly bland

(01:04:23):
crap yep. And they're trying to make up for it
for increasing the violence against men, increasing the condemnation of men,
but they can't because the stories are getting like even
this article says, the stories are getting monotonous and bland
because it's all the same. And yeah, that's gonna be

(01:04:45):
the future, ladies. I mean, if if there's any women listening,
that's your future. You get to watch this cinema with
its four stereotypes about women and men are evil and
that's it. These black and white feminist chick tracks are
our few. You get to have your spot in the
intersectional zigguratte but you are going to be bored to

(01:05:05):
tears for the rest of your life.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Okay, Yeah, we're gonna get that clockwork orange. Yeah, that's
where we're gonna get for our movies. Okay. The number
suggests a growing gender divide in political affiliation. Young men
have been veering right word, while young women have trended
even more to the left, creating a stark polarization. As
of twenty twenty, fewer than four percent of US marriages,

(01:05:29):
we're between one Republican and one Democrat. Americans are increasingly
even choosing romantic partners along political lines. I mean, it's
it's your values, though, Like I don't think that. I
think that makes sense. And men have only slightly, maybe
a little bit, moved to the right. It's actually kind
of like part of a pattern of them like slightly

(01:05:49):
moving up left and right a little by little. Women
have gone off the rails completely. So it's not like, oh,
they split up like this. It's more like men went
like this and went like this. So but anyway, this
hinted a deeper cultural shift. Many young women identify with
feminism in social liberalism, whereas a lot of young men,

(01:06:09):
feeling attacked or alienated by the rhetoric, are gravitating to
more conservative or constrain spaces contrarians, sorry, contrarian spaces. In
an era when the personal is political, as the saying goes, one,
stance on masculinity has practically become a litmus test. Progressives
often spot like toxic masculinity as a societal ill, a

(01:06:30):
problem to be addressed through education and corporate initiatives and yes,
representation in media. Liberal cultural outlets like The New York
Times and The Atlantic have run a slew of pieces
on the problem with men in modern dating, education, and work,
implying that men need to change or face being left behind.
That you know, there was theirs on The Guardian, which

(01:06:54):
is one of my favorite websites. There's literally a column
there called the Weak in Patriarchy where every week they
put an article out talking about how women are victims
of something new or men are doing something bad again,
and that it's it's it's a it's a hammer looking
for a nail. That's what all of our media is.

(01:07:16):
It's a hammer looking for a nail, and it's it
always finds one in men as being the problem or
part of the problem or whatever. And it's not hard
to conflate men with any other group that is the enemy.
That's why, you know, it gets swapped to whiteness or
heteronormativity or or whatever it is. Doesn't matter, you know,

(01:07:39):
political parties, it doesn't matter. It all comes down to, like,
how can we use our hatred of men to attack
an idea? And that's what they do. And they always
find a way. Every every time they want to write
something they do so all right, anyway. One viral New
York Times essay in twenty twenty five described a noticeable

(01:08:02):
absence of men in public life and asking plaintively, men,
where have you gone? Another introduced readers to the term
hetero fatalism. Hey, we talked about that one. The bleak
notion that straight relationships are doomed by men's inadequacies, as
single women vent about the dearth of good men willing

(01:08:23):
to commit or even date earnestly. This media drumbeat paints
a picture of masculinity and crisis, but crucially, it often
frames it as a crisis men themselves have caused by
not adapting to modern norms. In reality, though many men
a feeling unfairly.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
What I think that that is adapting? Like the thing
is that, honestly, this society it des incentivizes men's commitment
to women and incentivizes men maintaining of distance from women

(01:09:02):
in order to protect themselves in their assets, and like
that is an adaptation to the current situation for men. Now,
if you do something like and it's not even assets actually, uh,
I think it was. It was Kentucky that put in
shared parenting and the rate divorce divorce dropped like a rock.

(01:09:26):
So you don't even it don't even necessarily have to
change how assets are split and divorce. You just have
to change the presumption of of how the children, like
the children's time is going to be split. And if
you change that, divorce disappears, and then men will once
again have more reason to invest in their families and

(01:09:49):
invest in women. But it's like and then also men
don't want to necessarily invest financially or commit to women
who don't want to have families, Like that's that this
isn't an adaptation to what women are doing. What they
mean is that men haven't changed to tolerate this situation

(01:10:10):
and change to become whatever it is women expect from them, Right,
That's what they That's what they're saying, because I'm pretty
sure the expectations for women in relationship have only got
decreased and declined in the last seventy five years, the
expectations for men have increased or stayed the same. So

(01:10:31):
how they can say, well, men haven't adapted to this situation.
You're right, Well, men haven't adapted to the fact that
they're getting a worse and worse and worse deal. Well,
yes they have. They've adapted by walking away from it. Okay,
I guess it's going to be time for women to

(01:10:52):
adapt to the fact that the vast majority of them
will have to work till they die. Is there not
even going to be retirement anymore? So you think that
you're going to be a little old lady being visited
by your grandchildren, Well, no, grandchildren, No, you are going
to be working until you die. Ladies, that's going to
be your life.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Yep, all right. So, in reality, many men, feeling unfairly
blamed for crimes they did not commit, have chosen to
check out of dating in a society they increasingly perceive
as hostile towards them. On the other side of the aisle,
conservative politicians and pundits have leaned into defending traditional masculinity
accusing the left in Hollywood of collectively waging a war

(01:11:37):
on men. Know they're doing it, Like you don't. You
don't have to make the argument. You can just look
at it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Are making the argument. Like this guy is like, well, look,
I'm here out on the front lines of the war,
and I'm watching Hollywood bomb the nation of the Penis people,
and I can see the craters and the smoke in
the room and the bodies, and but you know, I
wouldn't call this a war.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
You are just you are describing a war like you
are describing the criminalization, the demonization, the mocking and minimization
of masculinity right the country. They attempt to push it
out of society. And then yet the moment of truth,
You're like, but I wouldn't call it a war. You

(01:12:29):
know that's the conservative sir. Don't be observed. This is
this is where I'm getting from, Like, nobody wants to
nobody wants to admit the truth, because once they admit
the truth, then they have to deal with reality. This
is this is an example of somebody who's like, well,
I'm observing all of this stuff, but I refuse to

(01:12:51):
acknowledge what is actually happening? Why why? Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Right on the other side of the aisle read that part.
They see the constant critiques in ads, op eds, oscar
winning films as an unfair generalization at best, and at worst,
an attempt to erase what they view as healthy masculine virtues.
The outrage over the Gillett ad was one flashpoint. Another
is the popularity of figures like psychologist Jordan Peterson and

(01:13:20):
populist senators like Josh Holly, who openly talk about a
masculinity crisis, albeit their concern is that men are being
emasculated by a feminist liberal culture.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
What okay? So you you describe all of this and
then you you describe the other side responding to it.
Do you consider this to be acceptable? Like that all
you're doing is saying that this side is saying, well,
that's not that's not right, you know, like the feminists
have stabbed masculinity and the other side's like, yeah, that's

(01:13:51):
that's not right, and you're like, oh ah, whoa waw
how dare now?

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Yeah, now it's time to fret.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Now it's time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
It's not about how we've been demonizing men for so long,
is that there are people who I don't like that
are actually noticing and saying something and it's actually having
an effect.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yeah. So confused because the article is saying, well, it
looks like masculinity is being stabbed, but Jordan Peterson says,
masculinity is being stabbed and that's yes, he's observing the
reality that you're observing, and he's saying it is happening,
and you are also saying it is happening. What is

(01:14:31):
the problem?

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Yeah, exactly, You're.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Both on the side of saying that this is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
God damn all right. Gary Thomas gave another five dollars
super child. Thank you, Gary, and says, while it's true
in most countries men have stayed where they are while
women have gone further to the left. The only exception
in South Korea, where men are actively trending more conservative,
which I think might have to do with the mandatory
military service. They go from a mostly male meritocracy atmosphere

(01:15:00):
to re entering the wider gynocentric society of South Korea. That. Yeah,
but also South Korea has got a real serious feminism problem,
like that, it's bad there. It's like India bad. So yeah,
so like the India has a very vocal men's rights

(01:15:21):
population or you know network there, and South Korea does
as well. I think it's growing. I don't know if
they're yeah, because I had a South Korean guy who
told me, I mean, he's not able to come on
the show because of the time zones and his work schedule,
but he has talked about the sort of like you know,

(01:15:42):
push I guess for men's issues there, but their their
issues are slightly different than ours. But yeah, but anyway,
thank you Gary for that. Okay, let me see where
was I. Hawlly, for instance, gave a speech in late
twenty twenty one argue that America's men are in decline
because of the lef's attempt to deconstruct males and has

(01:16:04):
urged a return to traditional male virtues of strength and providership.
I watched his speech, and it's that's a little bit
unfair because he's also talked about the problems that men face,
so it's not just like a man up speech. I
remember it because I watched it, and I was actually
pretty impressed. He was obviously either he sat down with

(01:16:26):
or he read the boy Crisis. I think he actually
brought it up too, which is doctor Warren Ferrell's book
a lot of like Warren Ferrell originally was marketing this
to the Dems because he was He's a Democrat whos
a lifelong Democrat, and they wouldn't they wouldn't listen to him,
or they would pay him lip service. I remember Andrew
Yang saying, oh, yeah, we'll look into it, but never

(01:16:48):
did so he basically said, well, I gotta we have
to do something, So he said, I'll find I'll talk
to Republicans. And I think that he talked with Tucker
Carlson on Fox News. Does one Tucker still worked there.
He talked with Larry Elder, and he's talked with a
couple of other guys as well. So I think that
Josh Holly either spoke to Warren Ferrell or actually read

(01:17:11):
his book, because I remember his speech. He brought up
a number of things that were in that book, the
boy crisis, and if you haven't checked that one out,
you definitely should because it's like I think that, well,
I've been saying on this channel forever, the fatherlessness is
like the biggest issue because of what it is producing
in terms of the boys and girls for that matter.

(01:17:34):
When there isn't a father in the home, and I
think that that's like one of the primary things that
has to be fixed. Although you know you could what no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
Finish, finish your thoughts. I just want to. I want
to speak after you're done.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
I was just gonna say, like that, that's what I'm saying,
but like, in order to do that, we have to
fix the gap between men and women. So but go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Okay, well can I can I throw my own two
cents in the ring on what's going on? I want
to I want to return to the boys club and
masculine values because I want to return to reading female
authors like this, all right, c J. Cheryl down below,
down below station, very good book. And what I've noticed

(01:18:21):
is that we've gone from authors female authors like this
to Morning Glory Milking Farm with a female dominance in publishing.
And I know, I want the return of patriarchy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Fantasy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
No, it's not right fantasy, it's no rape, whatever it is.
It didn't get that degenerated.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
It's literally literally chattel. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Yeah, I want to go back to the excellence I
saw with women in the past when it was so
called patriarchy, when we did the toxic masculine thing, because
what I'm seeing now is incredibly boring, stupid writing from women. Right,

(01:19:08):
that's pornographic. It's only merit is pornographic. So no more CJ. Cheryls,
no more, no more down below station. And she was
putting in place a lot of the tropes for later
science fiction. You know, No more Anne McCaffrey, no more,
Jon Dvenge, no more Ursula Legwin, none of that, None
of that. No, now we're getting morning goring milking farm.

(01:19:30):
I'd like to go back to when toxic masculinity expected
women to bring their a game, and they did right.
They did as actresses, as scriptwriters, as directors, as authors,
as artists. They brought their freaking gay game. I want
to go back to female excellence as opposed to whatever

(01:19:52):
this lukewarm prepuke is, okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
Continuing on, right wing media often marks, mocks, or lamb
bass Hollywood productions that it perceives as a masculating men
are unduly elevating women at men's expense. The discourse around
the Barbie Movie on social media was a prime example,
with some conservative commentators calling it anti man propaganda for
its satirical jabs at the patriarchy, So now it's satire.

(01:20:21):
When you were just saying like you're this guy, got it.
You got to get your story straight, my friend, because
either Barbie is satire that's like light and witty and
it's just taking jabs, or it's seriously anti male, and
I think it's seriously anti male, and you said it
was earlier in this article, and now you're backtracking on

(01:20:41):
that exact.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
I think this is about taking the energy out of
the room for this subject more than anything, because they're
trying to both sides this, except only one side is
blanket attacking the other. Not even the red Pillars think
that feminine femininity is a bad thing that should be eradicated.
I think about that. They don't. They don't think that

(01:21:08):
femininity is something that should be removed from society. Maybe
from certain parts of society where it's become a manifest danger,
but not entirely. But yet, this whole toxic masculinity narrative
is essentially let's get rid of society. Let's get rid
of masculinity from society. Okay, well we've been doing that
for decades. Now, how's that looking. How's society looking? Huh?

(01:21:34):
How's your entertainment looking, how's animation looking? How are books
and movies looking? How's the economy looking? Had we've declared
war on masculinity, and before that we embraced this ridiculous
notion that men oppressed women, which led to the War
on masculinity, because I mean, if men oppressed women, what

(01:21:55):
else do you do but war on them? Right? So,
how's everything looking now? Guys? How's it going? How are
we doing? Are are we ever gonna get back to
Are we gonna end up on it? We're gonna get
to Mars? Are we Are we ever going to get
back to the moon? Not looking like we are? Looks
like we peaked in the sixties and now we're going backwards.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
Okay, let's say, all right, tug of war rhetoric filters
into the entertainment itself. It's not a coincidence that Barbie
included cheeky nods to real world gender battles. The film
knew it would be divisive and leaned into it humorously. Example,
having Can literally discovered patriarchy by name, likewise promising young

(01:22:38):
women promoted heated debates between those who saw it as
an empowering feminist fantasia and those some male, some female
who failed to portray all men as monsters. Well, okay,
so then if you're if you're saying that we're not
supposed to care that much, then why do you write
this extremely long article Like it's almost like you don't

(01:23:02):
really want to actually talk about whether or not this
is a problem. What's the point of it? Like somebody
in the Special chats being special so it is working,
and they're they're like someone in there name not your friend,
said Barbie is a girly toy, relaxed, Let them have
their thing. You don't got a law like feminism, by

(01:23:25):
the way, So like yeah, but he corrected himself later
after that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:32):
So the thing is is that the film and you
there are interviews with the director and the writer and
Margot Robbie about what they were intending to do. It
is not a movie about a toy. The toy thing
is pretense for the thing they actually wanted to say.
And if you have any kind of media literacy and

(01:23:53):
you watched it, then you would know that it's not
a movie about a toy. It's just not. It's about
patriotch it's about toxic masculinity. It's about feminism, that's what
it's about. And the fact that it was an incredibly
anti male film that made over a billion dollars that
was watched mostly by women, and all of them went

(01:24:14):
away saying this speaks to me on a level that
nothing ever has because of that one rant in the
movie that is basically like a woman whining about like
life being what it is, Well, it's it's just like
what life is like that like, it's full of struggles
and contradictions. That's not unique to women. That's everybody's experience.

(01:24:37):
Suck it up, buttercup. But women thought that it was
very important and they were like they were. They were
breaking up with their boyfriends over it, they were initiating
divorces over it, they were calling their relationship with men
in a question over it. These things don't occur in
a vacuum. That's all I'm saying. Like you can, you
can like it or not like it. You can convince

(01:24:57):
me that it wasn't it isn't what it tried to be.
But all I'm looking at is the outcomes of it. So, yeah,
that's what happened.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
I don't think you're going to get anywhere with this
individual because I think they're a bit dis.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
I'm saying that. I'm not saying for that person. I'm
saying for everybody that's watching.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
I'm saying that your friend says war on masculinity. Lowell,
What because women don't want to marry you or have
kids when they're twenty?

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Never once did we mention any of those things.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Yeah, you're you're putting words in our mouth for no reason.
I get it, though. I mean I could sit here
and tell you that I'm married, but it wouldn't make
a difference. Right, You don't really care, pot So go ahead,
continue waste your time and flail in the chat. When
you when you're ready to actually think about these issues seriously,
come back. But for now you can just chill there
and you know, do whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
So okay, but here, here, here we go. Not your friend,
do you honestly do you honestly think that men oppress women?
Let's see what he has to say or she Okay,
let's let's move on to the article. How much more
of this damn article? Because this is the article that
never ends? Or macause?

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Yeah, but also, we shouldn't be taking this too seriously.
Even though this guy wrote like a fucking essay like
a novella. But anyway, so yeah, and then you're promising
young women again where they're saying you prompted debates. No,
they literally in the movie they present every man as
a predator and the woman gets revenge on them. That

(01:26:27):
that you can't say that. That movie just exists and
you're not supposed to take anything away from it. Every
story communicates something. Every story, if it's worth anything, it's
you're gonna walk away thinking about some kind of idea
or concept. You know, it could be abstract, it could
be specific, but nothing doesn't say anything. So promising young woman.

(01:26:51):
I never saw it, but it it is an of
a feminist revenge fantasy. So why does it exist? Right?
That's that's that's the question. But anyway, the cultural backlash
against masculinity that our film title references is very much
part of a broader culture war, one in which the

(01:27:12):
Democratic leaning camp tends to view the elevation of women
and critique of men as progress, and the Republican leaning
camp sees it as demonization and folly. Af their hashtag
me too. Many Democratic politicians probably align themselves with the
Believe Women mantra and put forward policies to combat toxic
masculinity in context like campus sexual assault and military training. Republicans,

(01:27:35):
in turn, often scoff at the term toxic masculinity. Some
have even introduced resolutions to celebrate National Masculinity Day to
honor positive male role models, implicitly pushing back on the
notion that masculinity is inherently problematic. Really a National Masculinity Day.
I mean, I don't know if I'm for these kinds
of days, but I'm curious about it. No. Nineteenth, the next.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Paragraph is astounding.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
All right, all right, let's look at the next paragraph.
The result of this political and cultural climate is that
young men today received mixed messages at best.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Okay, so the mixed message, well, the result the apparently,
the takeaway of this is that men are receiving a
mixed message. They are receiving men are bad, masculinity is toxic.

(01:28:37):
And then there is also this other camp that says, no,
that is wrong. Okay, Okay, let's get into the conclusion
of this mixed message that men are receiving.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Okay, you want to keep going. Popular culture movies, shows, ads,
et cetera. May tell them that they're gender is suspect,
and they need to reform, be more sensitive, less aggressive.
Relinquished power. Now, actually the third one is the most
important thing. I think. Relinquished power. That's what this comes
down to. Give me your money. Yeah. At the same time,

(01:29:14):
countervailing voices tell them they are victims of a feminist
agenda and that they should hold fast to traditional manhood
or risk losing themselves. It's no wonder that many men
feel bewildered or embattled. They're hearing both step aside, you've
had your turn, and stand up. Don't let them beat
you down. And nowhere is this schizophrenic messaging more evident
than in the realm of entertainment and media.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
No wait, wait, wait what what so you are? This
individual is now inquating feminists, stabbing masculinity with other people
saying hey, no, that's don't do that. So is this
sort of like in the vein of if a kid

(01:29:57):
is bullied in school, that's okay, but if he stands
up to his bully, that is that's that's sabannon Like
what the These are not equivalent statements. Manhood is bad? No, no,
manhood actually has good things. These are not equivalent statements
and recognizing you just said, you just detailed how men

(01:30:23):
are being marginalized in media. They're being treated with contempt,
they're being demonized, they're being criminalized. Criminalized is an essential
component of propaganda that that frames people in such a
way that you can subject them to harm. So it
is wartime criminalization is basically wartime propaganda. Right, we are

(01:30:45):
subjecting men to this, and you have detailed that. And
then you are saying, but let's not call it a war,
or let it's not call it an attack on men,
and you're you're basically saying that the other side recognizing
that this is attacked is equivalent to the side doing
the attack.

Speaker 1 (01:31:03):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
That is insanity, all right, that is freaking and sand
And also it's not conservatives on the whole. It is
just people who have been ostracized by the left for
this very behavior of of targeting men. So everybody is
who like, you know, I don't think we should shoe

(01:31:24):
on head is now on the right because she just
calls this stuff out, right, she is an alt right
personality now because she simply calls this stuff out. She
calls out this behavior towards men. So everybody who is
not left like you if you call out, if you

(01:31:45):
notice this, you are now on the right. So article
you may be trying to keep yourself on the left,
you are now on the right or in the center. Nope,
you are now on the right because center, you're right.
That's the funny thing about the gut. People are like,
I'm the enlightened centrist. There is no center at this point.
And it's not because we're saying there is no center.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
We are not because you're on the center.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Because you are either on the left. You are either
part of their intersectional cigarat and you know your place
within it, or you are far right, and even if
you run a foul of their many arcane rituals related

(01:32:30):
to the intersectional zigguratte and worshiping victimhood, you are on
the right. That's that's just the way it works. You're
either in the cigaratte or you're an enemy of the state.
There is no center. There might be a center once
you get past the chasm, you know, with us, like

(01:32:50):
there might be a center position somewhere on the other
side of the chasm, away from the intersectional zigaratte, But
there ain't no center with them, and that this isn't
us saying it. This is us telling you they're saying it,
Which is you seem to have a problem with it,
writer of this article. You seem to have a problem

(01:33:11):
with the idea that there isn't an equivalence here. We
aren't the extremist for pointing out that there is no
center anymore, at least with the Ziggarot, with the people
of the Zigarot. And you are seem to think that
you occupy a center between. This is what's funny about

(01:33:31):
this article. They seem to think that they occupy a
center between constructing or stabbing masculinity. There's a center between
stabbing masculinity to death and saying, hey, you're stabbing masculinity
to death, that there's some kind of center between those
two propositions. Sir, you may get out your electron microscope,

(01:33:57):
but you will never find a center between those two positions.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Yeah. Sorry, but binary.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
Three stabs are okay, but the fourth one is just
one step too far.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
There's so there's like a lot more to this, and
we have about less than a half an hour. Do
you want to do well?

Speaker 2 (01:34:19):
I guess we'll go back to I mean, that's pretty
much money shot. Or we could go to the final paragraphs.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Look at this a plea for balance.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
Their house. Guys, I know that person, I know, I know,
femoi fembot is stabbing man bought to death. Surely there
is a position, a centrist position between stabbing someone to
death and recognizing that they're being stabbed to death. Surely

(01:34:51):
they're centrism. I can find it somewhere in there. So
we're not going so far as to recognizing that the
stabbing to death is happening, but we're not stabbing them
to death.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
This is where they lose me for balance with sanity? Yeah,
I mean this again. I knew this was going to
go here, just based on the way the person who
wrote this article framed it from the beginning, which I
assume is how they see it as well, which is

(01:35:26):
to say, well, we used to be, you know, like
we used to be really bad to women, We used
to be really sexist, men used to be really you know,
cads on film, and now we've overcorrected. We got to
get back to balance. But your assumptions, your press suppositions
before you even started writing, were wrong. So you're you're

(01:35:49):
going back to something that doesn't exist, and you're taking
a lot of assumptions with you. So do you want
to do bryer Andy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
Or well, let's do the fat last plea for balance.
Let's let's do it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
Let's just all right, right, we'll do this. Do this.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
Do you have to go?

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
Right? I just kind of skinned it and I'm like, well,
I have I have Brianny, but I don't know. I mean,
we could do that another day.

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
Do you have to go?

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
What do you have to go?

Speaker 4 (01:36:16):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
At the hour?

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
Yeah? I should because I got to pick Lindsay up.
It's gonna take me like a little bit. The thing is,
when I go pick her up, the high school on
my path is letting out, So it's insanity when I'm
driving there because there's all these school buses and whatnot.
So that's why if I go closer to huh.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
I just feel like the mother load of insanity is
in underneath. A plea for balance. If necessary, we can
finish Byroanny another day.

Speaker 1 (01:36:47):
Yeah, yeah, so a plea for balance. The current narrative,
where in masculinity is so often equated with toxicity or inadequacy,
both poses the question what vision of masculinity are we
offering for the future?

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
Go away, leave society die.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
Yeah, let like I think I think that we let
men and boys figure that out for themselves. How about that?

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
Yeah, how about that?

Speaker 1 (01:37:12):
No, well you don't just be like, you know, we
we do need to engineer a kind of masculinity. We
need to engineer. No, you don't, Actually you don't. We
already have it. We've it's called evolution. You guys believe
in evolution, right, It's called evolution. We've had it for
you know, since we fell out of the fucking crawled
out of the muck basically, you know, since the fish

(01:37:32):
grew legs or whatever. We've always had it. Like, there
is something masculinity. It exists in animals too, you know, Well.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
There's male behaviors, like patent, there is male behaviors and
animals and female behaviors. And while human beings have it's
basically founded on some of the broad strokes. We do
have uniquely different male and fem masculine and feminine behavior
as human beings. But they're still there, there's still a

(01:38:06):
part of everything. We evolved two different types of psychology
for a reason, and I don't know, maybe the gender fluid. Also,
if you could consider like shamanism as sort of like
the prehistoric, like the previous version of being gender fluid,
like the witch doctors and the Shamans, tended to be

(01:38:28):
a little weird, and maybe there's a there's there's something
valid to that, you know, but whatever, we for the
most part, male and female, two different psychologies, evolved for
a reason. Our society has decided that the evolutionary reason
for the evolution of male psychology well, obviously mother Nature

(01:38:50):
made a huge mistake and we should get rid of it. Well,
let's see how that plays out. Well, we don't even
have to see anymore. We are watching how that plays
out for us. Yeah, okay, So.

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
Before I go on, I'm just gonna say that this
statement here, what vision of masculineery we're offering for the future.
It presumes that he's basically telling us that it is
the job of our cultural institutions to essentially construct our reality.
And they're just like, well, we need to construct something
different because what we've constructed is bad. But they still

(01:39:23):
are under this really false assumption that it's their job
to do this. So anyway, if boys and young men
are told everything associated with traditional manhood is bad, do
we risk creating a self fulfilling prophecy of disengagement and resentment. Conversely,
if we ignore the very real issues of sexism and
abuse that hashtag need to has highlighted, we risk sliding

(01:39:46):
backwards into silence and complicity. There it is, there, it is.
Can we have some of the feminism? Can we just
stab you halfway but not fully? Can we use paper
cuts instead of knives? No?

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
No, no, no, Brian, they get six stabs, yeah, and then
everything after that is too much unless, unless, you know,
unless they can justify that actually men stabbed women seven
times in the past, which they'll be able to do
because we don't. We can't argue, like if feminists say, no,
but men stab women seven times in the past, we

(01:40:22):
have to be like, oh, you're right, because otherwise we're misogynists.
So no, it's gonna be seven times. And and feminists
will say, but men stabbed women eight times in the past,
so it will be eight times, you know. And then
and then they'll say, well, you can't restrict us to
eight times because men stabbed women nine times in the past,
and then we'll have to stab men tine times. And

(01:40:44):
then feminists will say, but no, that's restrictive. That's too restrictive,
that's patriarchal bargaining. Women's got stabbed ten times in the past.
And then on and on and on it goes because
nobody can question where feminism is getting their bullshit from,
because feminism has to be correct, right, we can't question that,

(01:41:06):
or we're misogynists. We're the dreadest of dread criminals. Where
the pirate the dread pirate misogyny like.

Speaker 1 (01:41:15):
All right, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:41:17):
Conversely, if we grow we ignore the very real issues
of sexism abuse that me Me Too has highlighted, we
risk stabbing backwards into science that is feminism saying, but no,
women have been stabbed ten times in the past, and
there will be a new me too, me the me
three movement right also me also Me Forever movement, and

(01:41:40):
then we will have to stab men eleventh time because
feminists will have said, no, women were stabbed eleven times
in the past, didn't you know? And it just keeps
going and going and going. This article All it does
is tell people to ignore this issue.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
Yeah, it acknowledges everything, and then try to convince you
that it's not happening.

Speaker 2 (01:42:03):
Yeah, it's not, it's but we can't care about it
because that, yeah, because women got stabbed twelve times in
the past, don't you know, so it's only fair that
men get stabbed twelve times? And then you know what,
when we get to the thirteenth time, there will be
an article like this that'll say, but women were stabbed
thirteen times in the past, don't you know, so it's
only fair that get men get stabbed a thirteenth time.

(01:42:26):
And it just on and on and on and on
it goes, because yes, this article has acknowledged all of
our positions, has observed everything that we talk about. And
we aren't on we aren't on necessarily the right. No,
there aren't more conservative members. We're just on the position
of recognizing that men are being stabbed. But and this

(01:42:49):
article is acknowledged all of that, and now it's telling
us all why it doesn't matter, why we need to
continue to agree with feminists with whatever they assert, however
many times women have been stabbed in the past, Because
women have been stabbed thirteen times in the past, don't
you know that means we should stab women thirteen times

(01:43:14):
just to be fair? And what are you talking about
restricting men to being stabbed thirteen times? Women have been
stabbed fourteen times in the past. Don't you know that
means we need to stab men fourteen times just to
be fair? What do you mean you're restricting us to
only stabbing men fourteen times? Women have been stabbed fifteen
times in the past, don't you know? On and on

(01:43:37):
and on and on it goes. And that's why I
say everywhere else is the insane asylum. Mm hmm okay, Okay,
the challenge the insanity would be here.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
The challenge for filmmakers, for society is to find a
balance to continue calling out and rejecting the genuinely toxic
behaviors of a very small minority of men without tipping
into a blanket vilification as men of men as a class. Okay, okay, Wait,
so you just went through and told us all the
different ways that the Republicans or the right or the

(01:44:14):
Conservatives are basically the non left who have been saying
this is a problem. Have they at any point said
what we're gonna do now is be very like hostile
and sexist to women, and we're going to ignore bad
behavior in men, and we're going to vilify all women.
Have they ever said any of that? And I don't
think it has. Why, So you're basically trying to balance

(01:44:37):
between two things where only one of these things exists
and the other one is something you made up in
your head. So I detect backlash a phobia. That's what
I'm getting from this, Yeah, backlash of phobia. I fear
the right wing backlash. This is like a thing that
I've been a phenomenon that I've seen for years now,

(01:44:57):
and it's it comes in the form of mar wing
backlash or the male backlash. The male backlash is already happening.
It's just men saying you're not worth my time. It's
not men like rounding up the women and throwing them
in fucking camps. It's not gassing them up in the chambers.
It's not put well gas gassing, putting them in the
gas chambers. They're not gonna take them on a train.
They're not going to the death camps there. I know,

(01:45:19):
no mra fucking you know, death squads coming for the women.
It's literally just men saying I'm not doing this anymore,
and they're just leaving. And that's all they have to do.
Mind you, it's literally the easiest thing. It's just like
it's what Gamergate two is, it's men saying or it's
gamer saying, I'm not buying that product, and that's it.
They're not trying to they're not going to bomb the

(01:45:40):
Ubisoft studios that is not giving them any more money.
And that's all they have to do. And so that
you are worried about something that's not going to happen,
because the consequences are already here. It's men not dating women.
That's it. That's it.

Speaker 4 (01:45:57):
So all you gotta do is stop stabbing them, stop
shitting on them, and maybe like celebrate or a good
example of masculinity every so often, because that's what men
want to see, and then you'll have them back.

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
You know what, I just realized something. This is hilarious. Basically,
what they're saying is if we stop stabbing men, men
might stab us. Essentially, that's the justification, right, if we'd
stop stabbing men in the backlash, men will start stabbing
us because they're so bad. Yeah, how about we just

(01:46:34):
stop stabbing men because it's not a nice thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:46:38):
It's wrong, it's wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:46:39):
And again, like this, the logic of this person is
when feminists say what men stab women? Thirteen times in
the past. The logic of this person will be, yes,
they did, so it's only fair that men get stabbed
thirteen times, but don't you know, like maybe not a
seventeen times. But then feminists will say, but that is
patriarchal bar and boys will be boys. Men stabed women

(01:47:03):
seventeen times. And it's like this just this never ending ratchet,
never ending ratchet effect. And this isn't centrism, this is concession.
And like there is no alt right, there's only the
stop Stabbing Men coalition, which isn't even consistently on the

(01:47:25):
right because you know, sometimes people on the conservatives seem
to want to get a few stabs in themselves. So
it's just has a lot of conservatives in it because
conservatives seem to be the only ones willing to listen.
But there are still conservatives that still want to get
a few stabs into Let's be fair, let's be honest,
all right, And so this is just the demarcation we

(01:47:48):
have the don't stab men right, and that doesn't include
the people that are like, well, maybe eighteen stabbing men
eighteen times is bad, but stabbing men seventeen times, no,
you are definitely not in the don't stab men camp
I am in the If you're gonna stab men, maybe

(01:48:11):
you should uh have more than bullshit to justify it.
In fact, we should really, really, really really have a
lot of expectations of evidence before we get to embrace
harmful behaviors like condemning men, treating them with contempt, ostracizing

(01:48:34):
them if they want to express masculinity, treating them like
demonizing them, criminalizing them, doing all kinds of the behaviors
that we do before we target a group for extermination.
Two men. I think we should We should really sit
down for a long time and really think about whether
or not we want to do this. Maybe we should

(01:48:54):
have a trial. Men never got the never got out
the option of having a try before they were accused
of felony misogyny by feminists, and the stabbing began like
they never even got a trial. Women, we uhould have
started with a trial and had a burden of proof
put on feminists to prove things like men oppress women,

(01:49:17):
that men in authority equals women oppressed, which is not
the case it does. These two things do not follow.
You actually have to prove that the situation for women
is worse than the situation for men when men are
in charge, and that you cannot prove because it's not okay,

(01:49:37):
let's keep.

Speaker 1 (01:49:38):
Going, all right for now. The films on our screens
act less like a mirror than a hammer, that striking
at masculinity as though it were the root of society's problems.
They portray men primarily.

Speaker 2 (01:49:54):
Yes, sorry, Brian, we have to go here, striking at
masculinity as though it were the root of society's problems. Yes,
that is the point of feminist conjecture. Like, it's even
worse than that. Like literally, they say that men oppress women, right,

(01:50:16):
masculinity oppresses femininity. Men use rape and beatings to uphold patriarchy.
That is saying that men are the root of society's problems. Right, Okay, insanity,

(01:50:37):
This is insanity. Don't stab men nineteen times. That's not justified.
But women were stabbed nineteen times in the past, don't
you know, so it's perfectly fair for us to stab
men nineteen times. This is a quizling, Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:59):
Back to this, uh, all right. They portray men primarily
as aggressors and women as survivors, rarely pausing to acknowledge
that men themselves are also hurting. The real world data
is stark. Men make up the majority of the homeless,
the majority of suicides, and the nearly ninety percent of
murder victims. Yet in culture and media, these realities are muted,
while the narrative of male guilt is amplified.

Speaker 2 (01:51:21):
Well, not just what male criminals are overwhelmingly been subject
to multiple forms of abuse, plus have genetic factors that
lead to low impulse control. That's where they come from.
That's where male bad behavior comes from. It doesn't come
from masculinity. It comes from experiencing abuse and having a

(01:51:51):
like a delay or a permanent delay in your development
of adult impulse control. That's it. Men don't have guilt
for that. Like the average man has nothing to do
with a criminal man. A criminal man has very little
to do with a criminal man because he is actually

(01:52:11):
a subject of forces that's sort of outside of his control.
That's why he's criminal. Right, He's been abused, he has
developmental delays, permanent developmental delays. That means he's never attained
an adult male level of impulse control. Adult men have
really high levels of impulse control. I don't know if

(01:52:31):
you notice that really high A criminal man lacks that.

Speaker 1 (01:52:40):
Okay, yep, okay, Yet in culture and media, these realities
are muted while the narrative of male guilt is amplified.
A healthier cultural, healthier cultural conversation would separate bad behavior
from manhood itself. It would recognize that condemning violence or
abuse is necessary, but that vilifying masculinity as a whole

(01:53:03):
is destructive and misleading. The current zeitgeis lean too heavily
on accusation and too little on compassion. So yes, separating
bad behavior from manhood itself. So what you're saying is
women can also do bad things, and men can also
do good things, and we can represent those things culturally.

(01:53:24):
That's a wild concept.

Speaker 2 (01:53:26):
But Brian women were stabbed twenty times in the past,
which means it's only fair to stab men twenty times.
So we're gonna do that now. Like, the thing is
that once you justify this, it never ends because you
have no means to stop it. What this article justified

(01:53:49):
the excesses of me too. Once you justify it, you're
justifying every excess. Like I said, this is just ratchet mentality.
The new me too will justify the next wave of stabbings.
The me too after that will justify those ways. It'll
just keep going and going and going, because this individual

(01:54:12):
does not have the chops to question the premise, right,
and the premise is that men are responsible for the
bad behavior at all, period, that they should be associated
with it at all. That me too associating this bad
behavior with men was legitimate at all. It wasn't okay.

(01:54:33):
Men never stabbed women once, much less twenty times. And
as long as you accept the narrative every single time
that feminists say, but men stab women twenty times and
you just accept it, all you're doing is enabling it. Right,
me too was illegitimate. There's no reason to remove due

(01:54:54):
process when it comes to alleged sexual crimes. Right, There's
no reason to cont public lynch mobs when it comes
to sexual crimes. Go take it to the police the end.
Go take it to a place that is ruled with
due process. Because essentially, all this was was the creation

(01:55:18):
of social media lynch mobs, and that is no more
justified than the lynch mobs of the past. Perhaps it
was less violent, it ended in less stabbings and hangings,
but it's no more justified. Sexual crimes deserve due process.
The end, me too is wrong from its inception that

(01:55:42):
justification for stabbing men was wrong. This wan or this
individual who read this is just excused. He is just
excusing everything while trying to pretend he can find a
position between queen stabbing men and not stabbing men. Right,

(01:56:06):
he can find that position, he can find he can say,
well what feminists can just like where it's justified by feminism,
stabbing men is okay? Well, when do you ever question
the justifications feminism give for stabbing men? Well, we can't
do that, that would be misogyny. Well, then you're just
going to agree with the next time that feminism says

(01:56:29):
men stabbed women twenty one times in the past. Therefore
you get what I'm saying. Yeah, okay, good good, I've
conveyed information. I'm gonna go run around the room.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Now I got one more paragraph, and I think that
we will be the end of the article. In the meantime,
the warn men in cinema reflects a broader hostility in society,
a warning that traditional manhood is no longer celebrated but caricatured.
The challenge ahead is not to poll oar further by
painting one gender as a presser and the other as victim.
But to redefine relationships between other the genders in a

(01:57:06):
way that values both men and women. Well, we already
value women. That's not even an issue.

Speaker 2 (01:57:10):
All right, what the hell is that we already value? Like, oh,
men are being stabbed? Well, we got to think about
making sure we don't live in a world where women
are stabbed. Mm hmmm, it's men being stabbed right now.
You know why that is why he mentions that, because
he is once again going to concede to the feminist

(01:57:32):
argument that women have been stabbed. Now he's gonna find
he's going to try to find the centrist position between
stab men and don't stab men, and that centrist position
is only stab men when feminists justify it. Well, can
you question when feminists justify it? No, that would be misogyny,
and you know it would you know, if we question

(01:57:54):
when feminists justify it, that might mean you will end
up justifying stabbing women. So let's just stab men again.

Speaker 3 (01:58:01):
It's only giving.

Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
Twenty two times, it's what's one more stab oh twenty
three times? Oh shit, men are a greasy smear that
can't continue to manufacture the things we need to run society.
Who knew who could have guessed that this ratchet would
end result? The end result of this ratchet would be
the complete destruction of men that we can't question at

(01:58:25):
any time, because again he's trying to make he's trying
to find that center position between stabbing men and not
stabbing men. And of course the center position is that
we just stab men when it's when feminists justify it.
But we can never actually question when Jen and feminists
justify it. So basically we just stab men till the
end of time. Like I said, guys, this is the

(01:58:52):
only place that's same. Everywhere else is the same asylum.
I should just make like a padded on the outside
of the Badger Cave and just put a sign a
sayan asylum, because everywhere else, I mean aside from where
you live, Brian, your your apartment, in Hannah's apartment, and
Karen's you know, I'm in this like you know, like

(01:59:14):
symbolically everywhere else is a freaking insane asylum where they're
trying to find this center position of well, feminists are
justified but in stabbing men. But that so we can
stab men. That that's the center position. Yeah, and this

(01:59:37):
is what it means when a group of people has
claimed the center of the chessboard, the identity between men
and women. We have to exist within their insanity. We
have to. We cannot escape it because we always have
to bargain with it, like this person is now. But

(01:59:57):
feminism says that women were stabbed twenty two times in
the past, That means that, you know, to be fair,
men should be stabbed twenty two times, right, but no more.
But feminism says that men were stabbed twenty three times. Well,
I can't question feminism because my center position between stabbing

(02:00:18):
men and don't stabbing men is that men can be
stabbed whenever feminists justify it. So I guess we got
to stab them twenty three times, but no more. Jesus Christ,
fucking sorry, I took the Lord's name in vain insanity.

(02:00:39):
I appeal to you. I appeal to a point of
sanity in an insane world. All right, murder of crows.
At this point, I'd like to know what isn't misogyny. Well,
obviously it would be misogyny to question feminists as they
stab men twenty four times.

Speaker 1 (02:01:01):
Right, yep, but no more?

Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Twenty five times? Is right? Out, but women were stabbed
twenty five times in the past by men, and you
can't question that because that would be questioning feminism. That
would be seating the center ground, which is feminism justifies
when men should be stabbed. I hope you guys see

(02:01:25):
this fucking nonsense, right yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
Yeah, I know YouTube, Brian, but right, well, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:32):
Because you understand me sort of sort of, sir, I
worry about everybody else. They're like, what the fuck are
you talking about? I'm talking about stabbing men twenty five times?
No YouTube, that's that's rhetorical and sarcastic. I don't think

(02:01:55):
we should stab men at all, which is why I
questioned the very first time feminist stab men by asserting
that men oppressed women. I think that is wrong because
I don't think the center position between stabbing men and
not stabbing men is saying that we stab men whenever
feminists justify stabbing men. And I noticed that we can't

(02:02:15):
question when feminists justify stabbing men because that's misogyny. So
that's there's no center position. There's only stabbing men. Okay, yeah,
I think.

Speaker 1 (02:02:25):
I've got Yeah, we should.

Speaker 2 (02:02:28):
Strike for that. For all the talk of stabbing. Yeah, okay, okay,
so I sense that Brian needs to get going. Feed
the Badger dot com slash just the tip if you
want to send any messages. If you understood what I said,
it'd be nice to hear that, so that I know

(02:02:52):
that I'm not squirreling out into the void on my
squirrel submarine. We all live on the squirrels marine. Squirrel submarine.

Speaker 1 (02:03:02):
Is that what I don't Yeah, I don't know. I
don't follow that at all.

Speaker 2 (02:03:07):
Yeah, all right, it's something I sang a couple episodes ago.
You might not. Yeah, oh okay, all right, So feed
the Badger dot com slash just the tip to send
us a tip and a message with that tip. You
can do it anytime after the show's over. So if
anything tickled your fancy or angered you, immeasurably, feed the
Badger dot calm slash just the tip. And we I

(02:03:29):
don't have the monthly fundraiser up yet, so I can't
shout out to that, although I should get that done quickly.
I'll hand it back to you, Brian.

Speaker 1 (02:03:37):
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(02:03:58):
Red Chill Cinema, and we'll talk to you guys in
the next one.