Trump says Tylenol bad for babies; Liberal women most affected | Maintaining Frame 181

It seems that anything the current administration suggests or says is immediately countered by the Left(especially women) doing the opposite of what is suggested. This time? Women are following a new challenge on TikTok of chugging Tylenol while pregnant to own the chuds.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. My
name is Brian and with Allison and this, Oh and Mike,
who's edition.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
He's somewhere here.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, he's in the background. He's at the Badger Cave
right now.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
You actually hear him. He spoke, he spoke. Yeah, that's
right here close.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah, I hear him. Yeah. And this is maintaining frame one.
Any one Trump says telling all bad for babies, liberal
women most affected. Yeah, so I guess we're talking about this.
It's a TikTok trend. At least it became a full
TikTok trend. I don't know if we have we been

(00:40):
to TikTok to see.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I should go to Yeah, you should go to TikTok
to confirm that it's a TikTok trend.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Oh, yeah, that's what I heard. But I'm pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure it is. So let's see.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
But we I mean, even if it isn't a trend there,
we can look at the logic of these individuals and
and ponder, ponder, ponder the chasm in the human soul
or something like that. And void cat can ponder with us.
She can be the eyes staring into the void, from
the void into the void, from the void into the void. Okay,

(01:17):
and I if we need more material, I also have
a possible self aware reflection from the Independent. I don't
know if the Independent is well, I say, oh yeah,
viral man hating memes went too far from the Independent.
I don't know if the Independent is left leaning or
right leaning or center or anything. But perhaps it's a recognition.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Of it's left leaning. Most likely, I believe.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
That Independent is okay, So, but maybe it's a maybe
it's a little bit of self awareness and the nature
of insulting half the voter base for seventy years. Okay,
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(02:07):
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(02:29):
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talk about. There are lots of stuff potentially chat over,
ruminate upon.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Sure, Okay, so what are we going to start with?

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Okay, let's start with like the tail and all nonsense.
I don't know if we're gonna even get like, how
much can you say about this aside from saying that
Trump announced that there has been a causal link between
tail and all consumption during pregnancy and autism, And of course,
the Internet internets went nuts. The left left web went nuts.
What are we calling it? The left web, the threat

(03:32):
narrative pro the threat narrative political side went nuts because
of course everything that Trump says, they have to do
the exact opposite, which, you know, me looking at it
from a situation of being Trump agnostic, I don't even
know what that means. But you guys are essentially turning
yourselves into idiots because of your antipathy towards this man. Okay,

(03:56):
and then we find like somebody compiled all of the
outlets that showed that there may be a causal link
between autism and pregnant women consuming time level.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
So they don't like, yeah, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Do you think Trump did the research?

Speaker 1 (04:11):
He's just announce I think Trump was just no, Yeah,
he didn't do the actual research. He just spoke on it.
It was a press conference where Donald Trump and JJS
Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior announced federal actions to address
the autism epidemic, including an FDA review of acedamnifin Labely.

(04:33):
They cited studies. There are studies from twenty twenty four
JAMA review that suggests a link, maybe a weak one,
And I think Trump said that he didn't say for sure, definitely.
He said there's a possibility between prenatal ACEDA minifin use
and increased risks of autism or ADHD in children, urging

(04:55):
pregnant women to avoid it. That and because it came
from this emitished women in particular flipped out everywhere and
they just started doing the opposite, like on purpose, in
spite to.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Okay, well, we can't say that the exact numbers of
women who did.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
This, no, we don't. But even if they didn't, even
if they didn't do it, there was still pushback. It's
like saying, you know, sure only one guy killed Charlie Kirk,
but and the thousands of people were celebrating it. So
there is like a side that has been chosen in
this conversation. I watched some of the videos and it

(05:33):
looks like there are some women who are pretending to
do it but they're not doing it. But there also
are probably like ten percent of women that are actually
doing it. And I mean that sort of probably makes
sense for you know, like the people online, they're just like,
this will get me a lot of views, and so
you know, again, it's just like I don't know, I

(05:55):
just think it's insane. I don't care if you're faking
it or if you're just being critical or whatever, you're
just yelling. I think it's insane because it's like he
can't say anything without getting a reaction like.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
This, you know, tweet up and then I sent you
Thailand also.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I know I saw this too. Yeah, so this
is a this is an official post from thailandl in
twenty seventeen, not new they said, we actually don't recommend
using any of our products while pregnant. Thank you for
taking the time to voice your concerns today. Yep, they
said this in twenty seventeen. Yeah, so when I mean, like,

(06:36):
but they didn't even go into why that is. And
again I yeah, I mean they just said, yeah, we
don't recommend it. And this is like, I don't know,
like is it is it just me? Or is this
common knowledge that when you are taking any kind of
pain medication, there's usually a warning saying, hey, don't take
more than so many in such amount of time. You know,

(06:57):
So you don't like, for whatever reason, they always tell
you don't take too many of these, you know. So
like I don't see how this is in any way controversial,
but it's it's being made controversial because the Orange Man
said it, and that just like he can literally like
get women to do whatever he wants by telling them

(07:18):
to do the opposite.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. It's like, you
guys are idiots like this, reardless and okay, regardless of it.
If you have any criticisms of Trump, right, and I
think some people do. Behaving in this way is deranged. Right,
And even if you are trying to stick it to Trump,
do like doing something that puts your unborn child at

(07:44):
greater risk, which tyland All says it's contraindicated for pregnancy.
Don't take tiland al while you're pregnant to own the
Orange Man is such deluded nonsense like it it's insane. Yeah,
and it's it's irrational emotional thinking to the nth degree,

(08:05):
to this to a self destructive degree. Well, they didn't
even read tile and all the labels before they started
popping it. And again, yeah, some of these people, some
of these women are probably just pretending just to stick
it to if they want.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
To feel like they're part of the part of the
crip I hate Donald Trump. Yeah, they're just getting they
just want to be a part of the clique, so
they're just doing it. It's it's to signal to their
friends online. I agree with you on this thing, but
they're not actually, Like we have some videos of pregnant women,
you know, either really taking it or pretending to take it.

(08:39):
You can usually tell. I think one of them has
a blue pill, which I think, like a leave is
blue still somebody you shouldn't take a ton of anyways.
And again I don't know about the pregnancy thing, Like
I think when you're pregnant, there are a number of
new things, like new ways you have to live your life.
And I don't know if this is just women feeling
entitled to live their life however, they like no matter what,

(09:02):
like even if they're pregnant, they want to go to
the club, they want to drink alcohol like whatever, and
there are people saying, you know, you probably shouldn't do that,
and they get mad because someone dares to tell them,
what make a recommendation? No, I mean I think so,
because I mean, like people ask, why do why is
it Trump pisces women off so much all the time,

(09:23):
And I think it's because he makes a recommendation, a
lifestyle recommendation, and they don't like men telling them what
to do. Even if they're not actually telling them anything,
they can't enforce it. It's just like, yeah, maybe you
shouldn't do that, And women go, now, you can't tell
me why I can can and can't do. I'm gonna
do the opposite of that just for that. And I

(09:46):
just like I do think that there is like an
extreme like I don't know, delusion, well, no desire to
rebel against like male men just in general. I think
Trump's like the current man to do that too, But
it doesn't matter who it is. Like next time a
man in any position of influence says, ladies, I think

(10:06):
you should do this, you're gonna get a reaction like this.
I don't think it has to be Trump. I think
that he's just especially I don't know, radioactive to these women,
but like RFK just for being friends with him. I mean,
they love the Kennedys, Like before this they were fine
with them, but you know, an RFK has been on
a bit of a crusade when it comes to you know,

(10:28):
like our food supply and medicine and stuff like that.
And I think that he came with he comes with
receipts a lot, and in particular he's going after he's
trying to address the autism problem. They're calling it an
autism of epidemic. I think there could be some truth
to that. I didn't look into it. I don't have
no reason to doubt it. I know that I'm surrounded

(10:48):
by Spurgs, and I think that it'd be better if
we did we had fewer Spurgs. I think they have
a place in society, but I don't think we want
to normalize it.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
So okay, But to be fair, where would the men's
rights movement be.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Without spurg Well, I don't think Warren Ferrell is a Spurg,
and I don't think Paul Elam is a Spurg, and
I don't think so. I think we can. I think
the Spurgs are are specially equipped. But look, I'm just
I'm being funny mostly, But theruth is is that I
know a kid.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
They're especially equipped for amphibious assault.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Go ahead, yeah, I know a kid though, that goes
to our church and he was vaccine injured and he
is like really on the spectrum, and they're pretty sure
it was a product of getting the jab, which, by
the way, we can talk about now and and you know.
RFK is talked about that too, And I think that

(11:44):
like instead of like looking at this and saying, okay,
first of all, is this a problem? Like is this
a bad thing? If your child has autism? Is that
a bad thing? Could that be a problem for them
growing up? Right? And if it is, is there's something
that can be done about it. How widespread is the problem?
You know? And I think that they have said, well, yeah,

(12:05):
we probably don't want this at you know, at the
scale that it's at, you're going to have like this sometimes.
And so they want to treat it like a problem,
which is why they're calling it the epidemic. And I
think that a lot of these people online they want
to normalize it instead, and they want to say no, no, no,
this is like it's like another identity. It's like another identity.

(12:26):
It's like being queer or trans or non binary. I'm serious,
it's it's it's another identity, and they want to normalize
that identity. So I think that's another problem because you
have people that are trying to find solutions to what
they think are problems, and you have people who say
these are not problems, they should not be fixed. Because

(12:47):
that suggests that you know that people have problems that
should be fixed, and we don't want that. Instead, what
we want is to normalize it and make you embrace it,
and then like build society to adapt itself to give
those people comfort. Right, So, I don't know, I mean,
I've seen I don't I don't think that's I don't
think that's good in my mind. But to normalize dysfunction

(13:11):
and instead of like treating it as dysfunction, that doesn't
mean you're mean to people. It doesn't mean that you
alienate them. You know, you understand that they have a problem.
But like if if a bunch of kids were coming
out with Down syndrome, we would probably start asking questions
or we would try to normalize it, and then we
just have like, you know, thirty percent of the population
has Downs syndrome and we're like, well, OK, how do

(13:34):
we handle that.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
We also need to distinguish between Aspergers and autism.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
I mean they're specifically saying autism.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, because autism is pretty severe. Most of the people
who think they have autism just are on the Aspergers
specirum in.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, at the risk of you know, conflict of interest,
I would like to advocate for those with Aspergers and
perhaps the functionalness of the way that they think, and
maybe it's just a way that it's a different way
of approaching thinking. Because I'm not honest falling.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
For eugenics and to wipe out the Spurgs Allison, they
can exist. I'm talking about future generations of children who
maybe for whatever reason, because women are popping the pill,
or they're drinking, or they're you know, whatever, they're doing
to their body, because they don't actually consider what could
affect their child, and they could be giving birth to
children who are let's say, operating at less than capacity

(14:28):
for whatever reason, and that there's like I'm just trying
to avoid that, That's what I'm no.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I know, I understand that. But on the other hand,
I would argue that sometimes not you know, living in
a series of how how it makes you feel is
not the greatest thing. What I've noticed is that people
who aren't on the spectrum tend to prefer to feel

(14:55):
good then understand the truth. I'm just I'm just pointing. Then,
I know that there's there is, there is problems with
people on the spectrum.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Two.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, yeah, we all exist. Of course we can't and
I'm not again, I'm not trying to make an aught.
I think that right now we're just trying to figure
out what the is is before we get into the aught.
And there are people like these, like these women online
that don't want us to arrive at an EZ. They

(15:27):
just want to normalize based on their feelings.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
But maybe there's also a problem with like seeing people
who tend more towards like logical or reasoned analysis or
obsession with certain things as autistic might be a little exaggerated.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Perhaps, Yeah, I'm I'm but like the kid from my
from the my church can't communicate like that's what I'm
talking about. I'm not talking about kids that are nerdy
or whatever, like they're introverted, nerdy, but and maybe they
beget yeah, they get obsessive over certain things.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Wait and nerdy.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, but I'm talking about like people who you know,
you wonder like could their life have been better? Could
they have lived a normal life? And again, to suggest
there is such a thing as a normal life that
kind of like gets people's you know, alarm bells going off.
But yeah, I hate to tell you there is such
a thing as a normal life.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
Oh yeah, I'm sure there is. I'm just like, can
we find out what causes border like cluster B disorders?

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah? I know, Well that's another thing. That's that that
could be a whole other discussion that I think should
also happen. Yes, I wouldn't. Look, I'm thinking the birth
control pill has a lot to answer for. That's my
that's my theory. Anyways, I don't know for sure, I
couldn't or cluster B could be a fatherlessness thing too,

(16:44):
So yeah, control pill with fatherlessness you get, you know,
and historyonics.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
I just I just find that the people on the
cluster B to be so much more difficult to deal
with than people who are asked bergy to be honest.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, sure, you know, Okay, But I.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Mean, anyway, that's that's that's a discussion. This is insane.
Don't think that tiland all is going to make your
kid aspy. It's probably gonna make your kid autistic, which
you don't want, because that's a disability. I might argue
that aspy is just a different way of processing information.
But I imagine that what they're talking about when they talk

(17:22):
about don't take tilan all when you're pregnant, is that
you severe effects, severe effects not just getting a little
child that's a little bit nerdy and really likes dinosaurt
you know.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Okay, Okay, So I did get a comment in the
chat that I think is important to bring up with
regards to this badass Dan said in nineteen ninety fours
DSM four, and especially in the twenty thirteen DSM five,
the definitions of autism spectrum widened. Conditions that once were
diagnosed separately, like Asperger's bdd NS, are now under autism spectrum.

(17:58):
So this is another problem. Like, and somebody else mentioned
that the conflict appears to be with like the sort
of medical establishment, and that's a problem too, because like
the medical establishment has not proven itself to be very
credible in the last five years, so you're gonna get
people questioning it, and I think they should, and so

(18:20):
you're gonna run into problems with that. Also, Yes, the
DSM five has has moved things around, has widened definitions,
has done other things, some of it even politically motivated.
I'm not referring to this per se, but you know,
there's definitely been some of that, and I think as
a result, it's not wrong to call that stuff into

(18:41):
question the way I see it is at the end
of the day when it comes to like the facts
of what we know. If RFK comes forward, and I mean,
like to be honest, no previous administration has done this
where like the Health and Safety people or whatever it's called,
they've come out and they're basically telling you this is
what we're looking into, this is an issue here or there.

(19:04):
Do you guys remember the health secretary last term? You know,
like I didn't hear anything about them, but we saw
all their pictures and I'm like, if they are telling
us that there could be a link here, my instinct says,

(19:25):
let's wait and see what they find and then just
go from there. You know. They I think RFK is
talked about birth control as well. Now if that comes
up in like a big statement, wow, get ready. Women
are gonna lose their minds if if they learn that
that they're telling them that birth control has all these
negative side effects and that and this is not controversial

(19:46):
to know for people who want to know, but like
it's not common knowledge. When that comes out as common knowledge,
women are gonna flip their shit because there they think
that it's just kind of a like they're gonna to
see it as an attack on their rights if it
comes out. You know, birth control has problems, and that's
how it's gonna be framed. So just prepare yourself for

(20:08):
that and calling it.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Now, okay, we have a super chow and then maybe
we should move.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
To the I got the super chow up on the
screen here. Richard Pierre gave us five and said, I'm
waiting for the announcement to come out from Trump and
RFK that drinking alcohol during pregnancy has been shown to
have detrimental effects on a developing baby. Just to see
how many women will purposely do something that would result
in a disabled child, just to own the orange man.

(20:35):
You know what? And again, this isn't this is this
is common knowledge, like like this whole like these are
things when you're pregnant you shouldn't be doing. I don't
know if like women are not getting the memo anymore.
But when I was growing up and I was learning
about pregnancy, you know, and they talked about what how
a woman's body changes when she's pregnant and what this

(20:56):
means for her and how she should like her lifestyle
has to change. This wasn't controversial, but apparently today it
is so all right, anyway, do you want to look
at some videos of pregnant women.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Sure, let's go take a look at let's.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Let's actually wait, I think, yeah, I know, we got
like three and I looked it up on X and
I'm sorry, I looked up some TikTok. Yeah I did,
so all right. I don't know if it's this has
a challenge name or something, but let me see if
there's audio. I'm gonna play this now, hold on a second.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Making my child autistic with Thailand all challenge? Yeah, yeah,
may make your taking the bottom of the barrel.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Really so you see, she's got a blue pill, so
that might not be a Tyler mark because I think
talano is usually white or red and white if it's
a capsule. So this is not real maybe, but it's
still like she is she is sort of like signaling
to her friends. So that's the way of these women
participating in eugenics, I.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Mean reverse eugenics. I would, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
They're you genicizing their own kids potentially. But that's the
thing too. It like if she does it and she's
not really doing it, and another woman watches this and
she decides to do it too, and but she really
does it is this woman ruining that other woman's life
potentially by like saying you should do this because I'm
doing this, because a lot of this is like look

(22:22):
at me, that this is what I'm doing. You know,
I don't know, Like I think there should be women saying,
you know, he might have a point, but you can't
do that because you can't admit that you're wrong or
that you don't know. All right, here's another one. Here's me,
a pregnant woman taking tail and all because I believe
in science and not someone who has no medical background. Wait,

(22:43):
you believe in science, but the science said that they
don't recommend in using these products. So wait what Okay,
well I believe in the science. Okay, t only twelve seconds,
so hopefully the song won't.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Get us singed well and we're not gonna be doing Boy,
this is the hell is this? Like this is just insanity.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
It's just resentment. I mean, I don't know what else what.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Is with this music? Like it's insane?

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, well this is TikTok stuff though, yeah they do.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I just it's like, why would you even what is it?
What is the purpose of this? I'm really curious, Like.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
The other thing. The other thing too, is I'm putting
it in context. Do you remember when Trump mentioned I
remected and how people reacted to that, and he said, oh,
you know, like I've remectin you could use that, and
people are like horse pace, horse paced, and so that Well,
I think that's what this is. He's right, that's the

(23:50):
guy who recommended horse pace even though it works, and
Lindsay and I used it.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Oh, somebody mentions the irs now, so will ensure companies? Yeah, congratulations, ladies.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah, let's just show.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Let publicly that you disregard the health of your child
and see if that if that actually impacts your insurance. Yep,
oh good lord. This is absolutely like and again, what
are they trying to say? Like, what are you trying
to say with this?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
People? You actually read good things like science.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
But if they actually read the tailanol label, it would
say not recommended for use during pregnancy.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Right, But they want to they want to stick it
to the Orange man. At this point, you guys are insane,
right you you you are certifiably insane, even if you're
not doing it, you're insane, Like this is this is
just this, There's no excuse for this nonsense. The movie
there is I don't know, maybe maybe we can divine one.
All right, do I want to let's let's some did

(24:57):
you want to finish watching this woman? This is apparent surgeon.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
Who's yeah, this is another video, but I want to
read this bit. This is Michelle y Vu, MD. She
does fertility medicine in New York. Twenty eight weeks pregnant.
You know what, I'm gonna that what I'm going to
take some tailan all with acidamnifin and my baby won't
have autism. Laughs. These people need to lose their medical
licenses again. This woman is in fertility medicine. There's a

(25:23):
one hundred percent chance she will still be advising all
of her patients to take tailan all.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
And you're going to use your child as a prop
in your little passion play against Yan, who honestly is
not even I don't know why they have such hatred
for this guy because he's not even particularly conservative.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I did it, guys, you did it.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Congratulations, You're an utter moron.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
And also this could be like child abuse. You don't
use your child as a prop in your little passion play.
Good lord, let's let's go to just some regular feminist shenanigans,
because I'm feeling like these shenanigans are advanced shenanigans, you know,
And I just step back, go on easy mode for

(26:09):
a bit, read the article.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
Okay, we'll go back to.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
With our miss injury.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
All right, let me close these. But yeah, for the record, no,
this is women signaling to other women about how great
they are, that's all. And there's a little bit of
a suggested like, you know, if you're one of the
good ones, you'll participate in this, Like it's like a
bit of a social contagion.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah, so okay, what what what is? Uh? What? What
kind of articles does Olivia pet her? Usually?

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Right?

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Maybe we could look at.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Her Oh yeah, let's see corpus.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Is that how you say it? Uh?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, I'll look at her body of work.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Body of work CD.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Is an award winning This is an English paper, I believe,
the Independent. That's why her name is Petter. Sounds like
some you know, Olivia, it's an award winning journalist.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Writer. What Yeah, that's what I've noticed, Like people who
want to actually write stories often end up in journalism
because they can't just writing a story, writing a novel,
even writing in a short story requires a set of
skills that they don't have, Like, it's actually incredibly difficult.
So they go into journalism and said, because then they

(27:30):
can be fiction writers and nobody fact checks them, or
nobody even checks them for veracity. Right, see what I mean.
It's easier to be a journalist and lie about reality
because nobody's going to fact check you for veracity than
be a novelist and have to construct a world that
has the patina of truth. But they're still just constructing nonsense.

(27:52):
Like all right, let's keep sorry. I just wanted to
put that out, all right.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Olivia an award winning journalist, author and broadcaster based in London.
She is the columnist at The Independent or a Columnist Columnist,
and has also written for The Sunday Times, The Guardian,
British Folk Stylist and Gross. Yeah she reads to the
Guardians what I'm saying, Yeah, definitely one of those. She
hosted the Independence chart topping Millennial Love podcast later renamed

(28:18):
Love Lives for six years. In twenty twenty three, she
was named one of Forbes's thirty Under thirty. She wrote
her first book, Millennial Love, in twenty twenty one, which
was followed by her debut novel gold Rush in twenty
twenty four. Village by the Fort. Hunh.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I'm just looking at novel, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
Gold Rush Olivia is represented by Emma Leong at Janklow
and Nesbit. No no idea what that is? All right?
So silver articles, the y two k look you hoped
you'd never see again, and five more autumn trends. So
it's like fashion stuff. The reality behind the hidden crisis
of suicide among new fathers. Oh, I could open that one.

(29:00):
The unstoppable rise of invisible string theory. No idea what
that means. Electoral lights are everywhere, but they work. Leggings
are unofficial, officially uncool. I don't see anything like too egregious.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
But we could take a look at these. The rise
of suicides among fathers.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Reality behind.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, And what we probably should do is click that
and then go to the last paragraph to find the
concluding statement, the summary. Yeah, that's usually where they put
their their conclusion. I was thinking of another a synonym
for conclusion that was a little pointed.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
I think it's not the last thing, because that's more
like a follow. There's like a story. So she has
like an anecdotal story that goes on for a while.
So currently, fathers are excluded from specialist prenatal uh prenatal
mental health services in the UK this or perinatal sorry.
This is despite the fact that up to thirteen percent
of dads are thought to experience depression during pregnancy and

(29:55):
early parenthood, and yet the only nation recording the age
of children at the time of parental suicide is Wales. Meanwhile,
maternal mortality is recorded nationally. Hence thousand and one Critical
Days Foundation has awarded a million dollar a million pound
grant to Home Start with the aim of nationally rolling
out its Dad Matters program. It supports new fathers through

(30:17):
one to one confidential support as well as group services
designed to help dads understand their role in early childhood
development and build bonds with their babies while maintaining their
mental health. Men struggle to talk about their mental health anyway,
but when they're having a baby, a lot of them
think they must look after their partner and not be self.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Men don't struggle. Men don't struggle talking about their mental health.
Men who suicide have contacted service providers, they just haven't
received the help they need.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Simple as that women receive the help they need men don't.
Men go on to kill themselves. The end has nothing
to do with men struggling or failing or toxic masculinity.
It's just the help isn't there for them. And I
mean I've been I've been going into a deep dive
on why the help isn't available for them, and I've
found very explicitly that in Australia, abused men are held

(31:11):
to a higher evidentiary standard than abused women, and they
are subject to something I'm calling sudden death, which means
if their abuser does a false counterclaim, they are they
the man is now the abuser. So when you're dealing
with a system with that level of antipathy and stigma
and bias against you, and that system and then men

(31:36):
are failed by that system and then they're blame as
having not opened up or they're toxically masculine. That's why
they're not reporting their domestic violence. No, they're not reporting
their domestic violence because feminists have made it more difficult
for them to see justice. And that's across the board
with all kinds of services, services from psychology and that

(31:58):
are completely tailored to women well, allegedly. I'm not sure.
I'm not sure how much they actually help women, but
they are tailored against recognizing men as being as legitimately
living their lives, not failing, but actually you know that
they have coping skills. Instead, they focus on this idea
that toxic masculinity leaves them bereft of coping skills and

(32:22):
makes them more likely to And it's all a bunch
of Fundamentally, it is a bunch of stigma and bias
against men, all of it, All of these services are
saturated in it, which is why when men speak out,
they don't get help. They speak out, but they don't

(32:43):
get help, and then they go on to suicide. And
these institutions then, instead of doing some serious self examination,
what do they say while they should have spoke out.
More so, if if the suicidal men speaks out seven
times to the services that are supposed to help him,
he should have spoken out eight times, and then his

(33:06):
suicide wouldn't be his own fault? Is that it? It's
like anyway, So I'm just putting that out there. Again.
This is not as bad as it could be, but
still it is turning the finger back on men for
not being served by services that explicitly say they don't
want to serve men. Okay, so it's not bad, but

(33:31):
it's it's not the worst out there.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
She wrote, I don't know if this could be its
own show. But misogynistic chat rooms, bogus science, and rape myths,
what exactly happens in the manisphere? And of course this
is linked to adolescents because they have to so adolescens
was created in order for the meeting conversation.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
There went all of my charity for this one.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Ye of course, and yeahs in rape myths?

Speaker 2 (34:00):
What are the rape myths? I wonder that men get raped?

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Right?

Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's the UK. They don't recognize that men can get
raped by women? There? What are the Okay, we shouldn't
go into this. This is a freaking black hole. Maybe
we have time after the other one. Let's let's look
at the let's look at what we said we would
look at stick to the script.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Let's get back to the script. Okay, So how viral
man hating memes went too far? And I think I
think that the tone I'm going to predict, the tone
of this is not so much that we shouldn't do this,
but rather we're doing it, and it's starting to like,
you know, we're starting to get some backlash, and so
maybe we should, like, you know, contain the optics so

(34:40):
that we can attract men back, because we're losing them
and we need to keep them, like on the plantation.
That's what I'm thinking. But let's see, the Internet has
always hated women. The first sentence.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Okay, all right, charity is no negative.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
The Internet has always hated women.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
How is this read?

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, that's kind of long.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Oh good lord, what did I set us up for?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
I don't know. I don't know. You don't look at
these things. Well, look, if it goes, you can look
at the paragraphs and see what the let's.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Just I will keep my mouth shut. Okay, just read
paragraph stop and I will. I will just sit here
and I will.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
I'll just read two paragraphs and then if there's something
to talk about, we'll talk about it. Otherwise I'll just
keep going. Sgty thrives in spaces where the propensity for
anonymity is high and any kind of accountability is low. Now, though,
it seems that the Internet also hates men, particularly the

(35:50):
ones who date women. Hm hmm. If you're looking for evidence,
just been a few minutes in a single straight woman's
social media algorithm one quick look get mine, and I'm
inundated with clips and memes like that. Take hashtag men
are trash to another sharper tooth frontier. I hate when
energy drinks are marketed towards men's reads one meme on Instagram.

(36:13):
What could they possibly need energy for? Telling? Lies? On
x Twitter, a post states getting your heartbroken by a
non committal man with a slutty mustache is like losing
chest to a dog. Hey, I take I take offense
to that. Another reads One cool thing about dating men
in your twenties is that you get to experience motherhood.

(36:35):
What is that? Anti mail? One? Cool because they're boys
right there?

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Boys right?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Okay, I get it, totally.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
They're older than them. Too interesting?

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay, you you want more treats? Should do you deserve
more treats? I'm gonna squitch you. Okay, go ahead, Ryan,
let's keep it okay?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Not not okay. So, despite the fact that the Internet
has always hated women is kind of bullshit, the acknowledgment
that there's a lot of man hatred online is promising.
I guess, I don't know. We'll see where it goes.
Then there's the litany of parody TikTok videos and Instagram

(37:20):
reels reinforcing the same deeply hetero fatalistic message about modern
dating hetero fatalistic. There's that term again, didn't we like
do something on that? I mean, why wouldn't you just
call it anti natalists or something? In this one or
anti relationships? I don't know. In this one, a man
pretending to be talking to his therapist says he has

(37:43):
an inclination to cheat on his girlfriend, but is worried
about her finding out in case it hurts his reputation.
Men in therapy probably reads the caption. Several other clips
feature videos of women walking, all with the same overlaid text,
don't let the fact that you're attracted to men stop
you from hating them. Then there's the viral TikTok featuring

(38:04):
Steve Carell from the Office with the caption dating men
Is it easy?

Speaker 4 (38:08):
No?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Do I like it? No? I don't. But do I
do it? Yeah? I do. As chung and cheek as
it may be, the ubiquity of rhetoric like this online
isn't necessarily something that takes so lightly. All of it
sends the same rather depressing message to women about what
it's like to date men today, which is basically horrible.
Social media has created a space where extreme voices are amplified,

(38:31):
and content that ridicules or diminishes men often spreads rapidly
because it provokes strong emotional reactions, explains Lauren Cren, relationship
coach and host of the podcast Masculine and Feminine Dynamics.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
All right, all right, go ahead, Okay, so she's acknowledging
the existence of this, I would point out that I have.
I've actually started to use GROC to analyze some of
the profiles of the women that I argue with, and particular,
I ask GROC how much is this person's Twitter feed
devoted to men? And GROC says eighty usually comes back

(39:09):
with like eighty to ninety five percent, So these women
are completely centered on men, and these women who hate
men are completely centered on men. And then I ask ROC,
what are the mental health implications of spending so much
time talking about and ruminating over something that you hate

(39:31):
and you think you're a victim of And GROC comes
back with not good. And then I asked, okay, so,
but with a caveat, if they use that for positive advocacy.
Apparently that results in good mental health outcomes. So I ask,
what's the difference, what is the difference in behavior between

(39:52):
people who talk about things that they find problematic and
have better help mental health outcomes and those that don't.
And GROC comes back with emotional dwelling. If you are
dwelling in your negative emotions in regards to these topics,
and rather than pursuing proactive strategies like information exchange, analysis

(40:18):
and taking action in the real world, or or you know,
doing doing things that are proactive, having goals, taking action.
And I say, well, GROC analyze their analyze their their
Twitter profiles for taking action versus emotional rumination, which are
they doing? And GROC comes back with emotional rumination. And

(40:42):
so it's like, this is encouraging women to pursue destroying
their own mental health right there there is. And actually
the reason why I say that is because it not
only encourages them to center their lives around men in
the most negative way possible, it encourages them to learn

(41:02):
helplessness in relation to men, because that's what patriarchy theory
teaches you, that women are always weaker and more helpless
relative to men, and the only thing that the only opportunity,
the only thing that they can do to speak out
against the fact that they can never get out of
man's world is simply to ruminate on how much they
hate men, which destroys their mental health even further, so

(41:25):
they're caught there. What's happening is you have these tar
pits of women online who are destroying each other's mental
health and their dating prospects absolutely, and there is no
way an individual man can extricate these women from that
black hole of self destruction. Sorry conservatives, because they're the

(41:47):
ones who usually talk about this. There's no way. We
got to fix it at its root, and that means
we got to stop allowing this stuff to be promoted
or somehow we have to shame it. We've got to
figure out some way of reducing its scope if we
want to solve this sickness that has gripped women, and
in particular it's women. And it's in particular it's women

(42:10):
because not only are these these enclaves, these tr pits
on the Internet of women of these self reinforcing which
is destroying each other's happiness. There is government, media, academia,
NGOs and corporations who all support this activity and all justified,
all give women frameworks in which this activity is justified.

(42:33):
And in fact, it's the only activity you engage can
engage in to smash patriarchy, even though it does nothing
of the sort. It just smashes your own mental health, right,
And of course all of these institutions are likewise self reinforcing,
because you can't get in there and point out, hey,
patriarchy as envisioned by feminists never been proven. And in fact,

(42:57):
I actually went back and forth with GROC on this one.
There is they actually did, like there were like maybe
two studies in the history of feminist scholarship that looked
at the null hypothesis that they're that their hypothesis about
how men and women relate wasn't true, and we got
mixed results and null results. And I'm pretty sure the
mixed results are like, well, men appear to be just

(43:17):
as damaged as women, which is a null result. Okay,
So everybody's destroying and everybody's promoting the destruction of women's
mental health based on something that hasn't even been proven.
This is the most retarded activity in human history, Like
this is this is just it's just a civilization, just

(43:39):
one day waking up and saying we need to select
the form of our destroyer because we're too happy and prosperous.
So how can we destroy ourselves because we're bored? Okay?
How can we destroy this stream because we're a cat? Okay,
let's let's keep going.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah, all right. Part Oh so I looked up this
mask and in Dynamics podcast while you were ranting. It's
basically some Alex sykeshit. It's some dude and he's talking
about energies and stuff, and I'm just like, oh my god,
it's it's it's a podcast about relationships made by a
man for a female audience, if that makes sense. So
it's not really like men won't get much out of them,

(44:18):
you know. And I think that's what I think the
Alex sit psych types are, that they they they're successful
because they say things they disappeared.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
What I think Alex Syke has disappeared. Sorry I just
squirreled on. You continued, Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well anyway, never mind, let me move on. Part of
this is about understanding how the Internet works, nuance and moderation.
Just don't click instead, the algorithm's reward outrage, which often
means divisive content that clearly sits on one side of
a debate. That way, it's likely to attract an engauged
and ideally impassioned audience who will fervently comment and like

(44:56):
to their hearts to light. Black and white statements require
less introspect, whereas the truth is always more nuanced, says Kran.
Nuanced saying all men are bad is easier than saying
I have been hurt by someone with damaging traits. My
heart is afraid to open again. Yet I know there
are still good men out there. Yeah, yeah, But would
you give that same courtesy to the supposed internet that

(45:19):
hates women that you said right in your first sentence, Yes,
and that yeah, of course not. That's not to say
there isn't true to what's being said in the dating space.
Kran has seen a major rise in the number of
women publicly voicing anger, resentment, or dismissal toward men as
a group, but not just towards specific behaviors. What was

(45:42):
once limited to small communities or private conversations is now
broadcast and consumed on a mass scale, and it has
even become fashionable in some sort of to speak about
men in ways that would never be tolerated if directed
at women.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
That's that's always been like. There have always circle like
that where it would be yeah, and then they wonder
why men are just checking out? Mm hmm okay.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
But is is all this mere empty misndrosus rage? She
used the word she used the word misunderss. But is
this all? Or is all this mere empty miss andress
rage designed to keep us staring at our screens or
helping the next aspiring love island star go viral? Or
is there a very real and important truth underneath it all.

(46:28):
Certainly among my single female friends at least, there seems
to be a sense of camaraderie that comes from exchanging
these kinds of memes and reels. One sends me different
memes daily, and another frequently shares them to great acclaim
in a WhatsApp group. They make me laugh too. One
trend depicting men the day before they goes to you
is particularly popular. Typically, it shows a man gushing over

(46:50):
a woman in a hyperbolic manner, telling her he wants
to marry her, introduce her to her parents, also known
as love bombing. Yes, it might be insulting to men,
but it's also funny and relatable.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Good look, I'm gon I gotta, I gotta stop you.
You are creating friendships around shitting on another group of people.
That's what this is. That is despicable, right, And again
she says, it's not just calling men out on their behavior. Now,
it's just shitting on men, right, just outright shitting on men.

(47:22):
And I get like these when I get in contact
with women who are part of these kind of circles,
they always say, oh, you shit on women. No, I
say that women will be well rised to the standards
that they're held to, and they're not held to any
standards when it comes to men. That's just a plain observation.
And this is the response. This is the result. Women

(47:44):
think it's okay to have relationships that revolve around shitting
on men, Like that's okay. I mean, isn't this what
we condemn in cells for, even though I don't really
necessarily see that in cells just trying. I think in
cels want people to acknowledge that women desire certain things

(48:04):
and men that they don't have those things. It's not
necessarily their fault that they don't and just be honest,
and the fact is that people refuse to do that
because they feel like it insults women, which I guess
it does. So in cells become angrier and angrier. Actually,
they get more and more depressed because they just don't
want to be gaslighted by normies. That's it. But here

(48:26):
we have women who specifically are making friendships around shitting
on the opposite sex. But that's okay, there's a deeper truth.
I like to see it because from where I'm sitting,
you're just appalling human beings.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, from it, And look what kind of look there
are men who will ghost women and stuff. But then
like what kind of men are they? Like, why are
you like if you find this relatable, then what kind
of men are you dating that? That's what I'm not
to shit on those men. I'm just saying, like, is
it like a small number of men who have basically

(49:03):
a lot of options, so they're okay with ghosting you
because there's another chick they like more. And why are
you mad about that? Like you're going are you going
after the top one percent? Is what I'm saying, And
that's why you're getting ghosted? Is that? Why? Right?

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Well, what's happening is they're all.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Probably he like does not text the very next morning
and you're like, what the hell? Or maybe he did
text the very next morning, You're like, this guy's getting clinging.
I don't know. The rules are always changing.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
The icks are always multiplying.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yes, the X list continues to grow. Men can't keep up.
From an interpersonal neurobiology perspective, humor like this can act
as a defense mechanism, says Jessica Baum, psychotherapist and author
of Safe, an Attachment informed guide to building more secure relationships.
It helps regulate overwhelming feelings of rejection or abandonment by
turning them into something laughable. On a nervous system level,

(49:59):
It's a way to charge pain and temporarily regain a
sense of power. Okay, that was like you're just saying
this can be It's okay to laugh at men sometimes. Basically,
in this sense, engaging with this content could be perceived
as a net positive if it makes you feel better
about a disheartening dating scenario. Who are we to judge?
There is a fine line, though, if the humor becomes.

Speaker 2 (50:22):
What if shitting on men makes you feel better, it's okay?

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, maybe it's good for your brain. There is a
fine line, though, If this humor becomes the dominant narrative,
it reinforces a protective stance rather than opening us up
to deeper, more vulnerable connection. And vulnerability is the very
thing our nervous system requires to feel safe in a relationship.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
Explain no, Okay, let me tell you this. Guys, don't
even try to extricate a woman from one of these
tar pits. Just leave them alone. Just leave them alone,
because you are in more danger than they will ever
conceive of. Honestly, I always felt bad about saying this

(51:07):
to men, but these women are undatable. They are undatable,
and they are dangerous. Avoid them completely. But take a
look at our social media history. If she's in one
of these tar pets, which you can easily find, just
ask rock on Twitter, what is the total content of her?
What is it focus? Is it focused on men? Negatively? Right,

(51:30):
she's in a tar pit. There's no way of getting
her out, and unfortunately, the government empowers women to be
extremely dangerous to men. Like Okay, I'm gonna use the
thing that's on my mind now because I'm arguing it
for the last three days. An ros, which is the
Feminist DV organization in Australia, which has the greatest amount

(51:51):
of any organization feminist or otherwise on Australia's domestic violence
a law and policy. Literally, men who are victims of women,
and these women will make you a victim like this
is this is precipitating. These kinds of attitudes towards men
are causally linked to sexual violence in women. In other words,

(52:13):
women that have these kinds of attitudes engage in sexual
violence against men. And I think also domestic violence. Don't
quote me on that. So these are these are not
nice women, and if they get you in their clutches,
you can expect some violence, and then when you are
tired of it, you can expect more violence. And if

(52:35):
you if you're an Australian most likely and everywhere in
the West, if you go to the authorities, you have
to show that she is engaging in coercive control and
violent behavior to a far higher standard than she has
to control. And this is something that men need to know.
You are not protected. When you're in a relationship with

(52:55):
a violent sexually or physically violent or emotionally violent way,
you are not protected. You will have to be able
to prove your case to a far higher standard. And
here's the kicker. If she decides to make a false
accusation against you, you're done. You're cooked, it's over. You
are the abuser, and you lose your rights. Do not

(53:18):
go anywhere near women like this, right, you guys need
to start looking at her social media history. If you
see crap like this, run ghost no wonder these women
are ghosting. I'm sure there's some men out there who've
realized this. You know, they're like, I'm gonna take her
home to my mom. Looks at her social media block

(53:41):
click really, and that's exactly what men should be doing
with women like this, And you shouldn't be giving attention either.
Look at her social media feed. Get Grock to do
an analysis. This is probably the best at this point,
This is probably the best way for a man to
protect himself. Ask Grot how much of her social media

(54:05):
presence is talking about men in the negative? If you
get if you get results like eighty five ninety percent,
run right, Okay, tell her that you've moved to a
different fucking state. Right, Make sure you don't tell her

(54:27):
how to contact you in the first place. Before you
look at her social media run. Probably if you get
results like ten fifteen percent negative, it's it might not
be a good thing, right And like I say this,
because men have you end up getting sucked into one
of these women's worlds. You will end up becoming the

(54:47):
thing that she complains about her her girlfriends with. Because
she's more interested in having complaints to bond with her
girlfriend than she is having a relationship with you. You
are simply fodder for her. Next, my ex was a
narcissist complaints with their girlfriend. Yep, this is fucking scary.

(55:07):
And again, services that are supposed to help you if
you get involved with a psycho like this won't okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
It also reinforces helpful unhelpful stereotypes. Let me just make sure. Yeah,
this is where I left off about dating, specifically those
around attachment styles. Many of the negative clips and memes
about male behavior and dating revolve around the assumption that
all men are emotionally unavailable, self sabotaging, commitment phobic cavemen

(55:37):
being emotionally unavailable is so fun, I see, I see
why men do this? Reads one post on x which
has been parroted several times across the internet. Then there
are those countless ghosting videos which tap into a wider
narrative around men being incredibly keen at first and then
suddenly vanishing the truth.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Why, like, seriously, have you considered cause here, ladies, you're
part of these groups that you shout red flags, maybe yeah,
causing to run away. You're part of these groups that
shit on men and then suddenly men ghost you. I
wonder why? Okay?

Speaker 1 (56:12):
The truth is that both men and women can struggle
with avoidant attachment, says Baum. Avoidant attachment often looks like
ghosting or diving in quickly, only to pull away when
real intimacy shows up. This is a pattern I've seen
frustrate many women, and culturally it has been stereotyped as
a male behavior. But it's not. Still there is truth
to it, otherwise the means wouldn't hit home. According to

(56:35):
a twenty twenty two study published in the journal Behavioral Sciences,
men are more likely to have an avoidant attachment style,
whereas women are more likely to have an anxious attachment,
which is characterized by a fear of being abandoned by
your partner and can result in a requirement for constant reassurance.
Those are kind of a bad combo too, because if
the man is slow to attach and the woman is

(56:58):
paranoid that she's being abandoned, then they're gonna have like
issues where you know, where there's like it's going to
come down to the patients of one person or the other.
We likecause the thing.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Is that if having an anxious attachment style is not
a good thing either. All this study has shown that
men and women have different things that they need, different
types of shit they need to stow.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Yeah, just.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
In these In these groups, it's just men who have
a problem, men who need to change, men who are wrong,
men who are shit, men who don't know how to love.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
But there are exceptions, and leaning too heavily into stereotypes
will prevent us from seeing them, because ultimately, all this
is harming men and women. For women, it's a case
of getting trapped in a cycle of negativity. That means
we go looking for trouble where there might be none.
We go into dates, assuming the worst and often projecting
that onto the men themselves, subconsciously or not. Culturally, we

(58:00):
champion an independent self sufficiency, self reliance and success, but
what often gets overlooked is the loneliness and isolation that
comes with this way of being, says Bam. Many women
buy into this independence era, but the messaging can sometimes backfire,
leaving them more disconnected and hurting inside. The truth is
thriving happens in connection, not in isolation. For men, the

(58:24):
consequences were explored in a recent survey of one hundred
single men conducted by The Cut, which highlighted the anxieties
men have about being vilified on social media for their
dating habits. I am terrified of becoming the next viral TikTok,
a twenty eight year old New York man told the publication.
All your responses are likely being circulated into a group chat,

(58:45):
a twenty six year old Texas man said. Many also
pointed to west Elm Caleb, the man who became persona
Nongrada on TikTok for allegedly ghosting several women in New York.
West Elm Caleb did I did we cover that?

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Talked about it briefly.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, I kind of remember that. Okay, Well, look there
is an acknowledgment that men go through it too, so
that's kind of surprising.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Yeah, there is there assigning responsibility and blame to women
for putting men through.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
This doesn't look like it. It's too wrong. Who cares?
That's what it sounds. Well, not really, it's.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Not really a wrong because again we're starting from the
premise that women have an anxious attachment style, men have
an avoidant attachment style. But only one of them is wrong. No,
they're both wrong. Start right from the start. Both have
problems they have to overcome. Women are adding to their
anxious attachment style getting into these tarpits and violating their relationships.

(59:47):
But with men by turning them into fodder for rumination
and constructing these disturbing friendships with other women. That is
a massive violation of men. So we start from men
and women have things to overcome, neither of which is
particularly worse. We add in a massive violation by women

(01:00:10):
to the male partners, the men that you're they're dating,
and somehow we get two wrongs. No, there was no
two wrongs. Men have done nothing. They've done nothing. They
have their problems, Women have their problems, and then women
add to their problems this monstrosity, this monster from the id.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Okay, all right, it is concerning on many levels, says Krenn,
of the proliferation the proliferation of this kind of content online.
It harms men because it normalizes a narrative that they
are inherently unworthy, untrustworthy, or disposable, and it harms women
because it breeds cynicism and makes it harder to approach
relationships with an open heart. It also creates a divisive

(01:00:50):
dating culture built on fear, resentment, and in some cases rage,
bait and mysery is normalized.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Huh, and it's entirely driven by women. Yeah, they're gonna say, oh,
men are instigating it by having avoidant attachment styles or whatever. Well,
they're not instigating shit, right, you are. They're both men
and women have their problems. You are taking men's problem
and using it to justify doing something that is a

(01:01:20):
violation of others. Yeah, you know, somebody having an avoidant
attachment style is just has an issue in their relationships.
You are amplified. You are using that as an excuse.
Women are using that as an excuse to engage in
this toxicity. Okay, I don't see men using women's anxious

(01:01:44):
attachment style to engage in this kind of toxicity.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
Yeah, I see what you mean. Maybe, Yeah, I haven't
seen it. But when mis injury is normalized, men often
either shut down and withdraw from dating, or they respond
with equal hostility. Both reactions fuel the cycle of separation
and leave little space for authentic intimacy.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
And trust their reactions.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
But there is something interesting in this statement that I
think is important to point out. He said, I'll read
this again. When MYS injury is normalized, which I think
it is, I mean, I think it has been.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
For a while normalized.

Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
It's yeah, beyond normalized, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Incentivized, and if you don't engage in it, you are
bashed as a woman.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Yeah, you're a pick me. When MYS injury is normalized,
men often either shut down and withdrawal from dating, or
they respond with equal hostility. So there there is ever
there is a problem they are seeing now, there they
So this article is actually like the silver lining is

(01:02:52):
they can't ignore what they have done. They're not able
to admit that they did it. They're not able to
do that yet, but they can't ignore that they are
finding men checking out more and more. They're actually talking
about it now. So firstly, they're using the word mysagery
and they're literally not saying migtow, but they are describing migtow.
They're saying what men shut down and withdraw from dating,

(01:03:15):
so they're just not doing it and leave little space
for authentic intimacy and trust to grow. So I'm just
saying that's interesting to me because I don't think we
would have heard that in twenty fifteen. Short of half
heartedly repeating not all men like brainwashed cyborgs. It's hard
to know where to turn to improve any of this. Clearly,

(01:03:37):
there are very real problems at the heart of the
modern dating landscape which are feeding a culture whereby it's
become normal to de ride men in this way. But
at some point, surely we have to find a way
to move past this way of thinking. To comeback this
cultural trend, we have to model and promote vulnerability, curiosity,
and compassion in dating, says Bam. On a cultural level,

(01:03:57):
that means moving away from glorifying radical self reliance and
instead valuing interdependence, because safety, healing, and thriving all happen
in relationships, not in isolation. On an individual level, it
could also be a symbol as switching up your social
media algorithm. I've recently traded memes of terrible men for
videos of kittens meeting big dogs, and I feel more

(01:04:19):
optimistic already.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
Can I point something out? Can we just go back
to that final paragraph. We have to surely we have
to find a way to move past this way of thinking. Yeah,
stop dragging men. Absolutely, stop get rid of all of
the women in your social circle that do it. Replace
them with women who are happily married and to regularly
give you anecdotes about why they're happily married, who support

(01:04:44):
married right and support you taking responsibility. I mean, here's
the thing, How does how do we stop this thing
that we're doing, Brian? How do I stop this this
thing that I do? How do I stop it? Tell
me how do it? How do I stop it? That's
how you stop it? You stop doing it? Like, did

(01:05:07):
you see that we need to We need to moving
away from glorifying radical self. Why don't you say the words, lady.
It doesn't mean moving away from glorifying radical self reliance
and instead valuing independence. It means stop shitting on men,
stop engaging in miss injury. Throw it out of your life,

(01:05:28):
all of it, right down to the feminist bullshit that
has never been proven. Okay, throw it all out, all
of it. Go in the trash. Stop doing what you're doing.
If you want to stop doing what you're doing, why
do people have to say this to them, like take responsibility,
blame yourself, look in the mirror and say, I have

(01:05:50):
asked acted like a shit bag to men, and I
resolved to stop. My name is Olivia Petter, and I
am an addict, a missingery addict, and I am resolved
to stop. That's what you do. And then you stop,

(01:06:10):
and you surround yourself by people recovering missingry addicts who
can support you in your recovery, and you take responsibility,
and you keep taking responsibility, and you don't look for
some kind of woo excuse to evade taking responsibility, like
oh I need to I need to let go being

(01:06:32):
an independent and and pursue compassion and but no, just
stop being misandress.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
That's start step one zero. All that. Okay, I got
one other thing. Okay, this might be a little bit sad,
but it's I think it's it's related going back to
the whole hell an all thing. So I want to
show you guys this video. It's like three minutes long.

Speaker 5 (01:07:00):
But this isn't gonna be one of my funny videos
because I don't think this shit is funny at all anymore,
and you people need to cut it out.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Cut it out.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
I just watched a video from Nicole Sorrento on her
Instagram about a husband who contacted her at four am
this morning.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Do you know why?

Speaker 5 (01:07:20):
Because his wife, pregnant wife who's twenty three to twenty
five weeks pregnant, wanted to prove that tailand all doesn't
cause autism. Guess where she is. She's in a hospital
on a ventilator with liver failure, and they said she's
not going to survive.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Okay, all right, I just want to play that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
I mean, if this is true, what the fuck is
wrong with women? I mean it is.

Speaker 1 (01:07:46):
Part of the original video, the source video.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Oh my fucking god.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Mhm.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
So it's about you know, it's gonna be six am finally,
And for those of you who don't follow me on Twitter,
I recommend that you do.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
I got a call, very frantic call at four o'clock.

Speaker 4 (01:08:04):
In the morning from a husband whose wife is now
dying of liver failure on a ventilator in an ICU
because she was trying to prove that time and all
doesn't cause auto What Trump said on the news.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
What what is like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
If this is true, ladies, do you have brains or
do you just have sponges that keep your skulls up?
What is this?

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
And it's possible, I don't. I mean, honestly, I think
this is quite the elaborate ruse. If it isn't, but no,
keep going. Let's let's have hear what this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Yeah, that's a Harvard study. Now, whether or not you
believe the Harvard study or not is not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
It was a Harvard study that said this, So it
wasn't like they pulled it out of their ass.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
It wasn't like Trump did the study.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
No, Trump didn't do the study. He Harvard did it.
But his name is attached.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
So it must be that he should start reporting on
these studies. But he should wear like a lab coat
in a lab with like a flask.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
A stethoscope and one of those things on his head.
You know, nobody doctors don't wear that anymore, but you know,
those mirror things.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
But it's like it's like the art of it, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Yeah, Oh I guess yeah, either that or like you know,
goggles and like rubber gloves like a Nazi scientist, like
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Know, but I think they'd have like studied leather. No okay,
that's no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Just the leather, the pull up gloves and the white
coat with the buttons on one side and the goggles.
That's like why the mad Nazi mad scientists. Look.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
Yeah, she's somewhere between twenty three to twenty five weeks
and she overdosed on thailand all, and she's going to die.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
She's not going to come off that ventil later.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
He took the whole phone.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
Number from somebody.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
What she took the whole bottle.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Yeah, she wanted to dunk on the orange man. She
wanted to dunk harder than all the other women.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
So okay, all right, keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
I'm going to give it to him. I mean, guys,
it's early in the morning.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
I'm still in Hello Katie's sweatpants in my gym, trying
to work out.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
And she's gonna die.

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
It's going to be Let me tell you something about
thailanol overdosing and death is that if you aren't administered
the antidote, it is.

Speaker 3 (01:10:20):
A very slow and painful death.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
Okay, Because thailand all, as well as benadryl and aspirin
are the three most common OTC's that people will typically
try to unlive.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
Themselves with, you know, so I don't get censored.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
But now people are just taking massive amounts of thailanol
to prove Trump wrong. I mean, weren't these the same
people who put Harvard and Fauci and the pillars of
science on a pedestal and now they refuse to believe it.
Like I don't believe it either, But I'm also not
going to go overdose on thailanol either. And it's just
so sad because he has to make the choice of

(01:10:56):
them going and trying to emergency deliver this baby and
the baby may not survive. Baby's gonna spend a long
time in the nicky. Hopefully the baby will survive. And remember, guys,
preemies have complications even if they do survive. I didn't
ask him if he had more children, So I mean,
let's say this woman did have they have more children,
they lost their mother.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
Baby's not going to grow up with the mom. He
lost his whole life.

Speaker 4 (01:11:17):
If this baby dies too well, because of TikTok challenges, guys,
everybody wants like come, not everybody, but maybe these crazy
liberal women they like literally hate Trump so bad that
she killed herself and her baby potentially.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Okay, this could be this could be a hoax. It's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
There is a Buddhist saying about you know, like about
drinking poison hoping the other person will die.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Hatred is like drinking poison hoping the other person will die. Yeah,
well literally, this is drinking poison hoping. What.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
I hope it proves somebody wrong, which you wouldn't even
really prove until like way later. Yeah, so yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
It seems slightly exaggerated. It's uh, you gotta be careful
about like false information on the other road. Yeah, we'll
see what the people in the chat say. Yes, Chrum
did say that there may be a relation. So it's
on overaction. Yes, it's a huge overreaction. And I hope
all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
He didn't say it's for sure anything. He said that
there's there and again he was reporting on a Harvard
study with RFK. He didn't It wasn't him. He was
just a messenger. The messenger was the wrong kind of person.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Take the look at the comments under that video. Let's
see if there's anything video.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Yeah, what about the oh, I'll go back up. Yikes,
this makes me nervous because my doctor literally prescribed me
to take benadruil every night to sleep, and I never
thought twice about it. There are better ways to get sleep. Well,
that's weird that I was taking benadrux for a while,
because I mean, like it just knocked me out. I
was having trouble sleeping. If all else fails, the label, yes,

(01:13:01):
the label tells you everything. Thailand all a set of
minifit can damage the liver if taken in excessive amounts.
Overdosing typically about four thousand milligrams a day for adults
can lead to severe liver injury or failure. A lot
of medicines use the liver or they like tax the liver.
A lot of medicines do that. And your liver, man,

(01:13:21):
you need it. What about the child? This is every
bit is infuriating as it is heartbreaking. Low chances of
survival if true, not faked. I worked EMS for thirty years.
I transported many people who overdose on tailanl Many were
kids who thought it was harmless. We would get called
the other the after they told someone, and then by

(01:13:42):
then it was too late. They always ended up in
ICU with liver damage and many died, so sad she
is correct.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
You might go to grok is this real? I'm curious
if Grok responded, couldn't find verified.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
We may not know because this is like literally like
just fifty minutes ago. So if they die, there might
be a new story after that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Autism tunnel autism link itself is disputed by fact checkers
like fact check and CDC.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Okay, I mean even if it was even if it
wasn't true, that doesn't excuse this like that in no way.
You know. You could just be like I don't buy it,
and then you move on with your life. You don't
post it online exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Yes, you know, you just like a normal human.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Not like you just say well, I don't know about that,
or maybe you say, oh, well that's interesting. Maybe I'll
I'm pregnant with a baby that I hope to like
deliver and like have in my life, you know, for
forever and ever, so maybe I'll look into that. Or
maybe I'll just avoid a scene of minifins until the
baby's delivered or whatever, you know, like I'll drink tea
to like if I have pain, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
For other ways yourself in order to like stick it
to a I's never even probably gonna know, or I
don't know if he cares. I mean maybe he would,
because this is ridiculous and and nobody wants anybody to
die over it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
But it's like, this could be a lie. But I
think that that can definitely kill you. So yes, the
idea that it can happen, I think it's true. Whether
or not it actually did happen, we don't know, so
we may have to wait. But anyway, I just thought
I would share that pretty uh, pretty dark if true.
But all right, all right, mm hmmm hmmm.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
So yeah, today another level of new level of sanity
that we've reached. I mean, just the logic of it
is insane. Just get on with your life just if
you don't believe it, don't believe it. You don't have
to believe it, but don't not believe it to the
degree that you believe doing the opposite is good.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Yeah. I wouldn't blame TikTok challenges for this. I don't
think the existence of challenges is the problem. I think
it's people actually like responding to them, and specifically, I
mean women.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
It's working yourself into a state where you think that
this makes sense because you don't like a guy. That's ridiculous.
You got to step back and start asking yourself if
your emotions are serving you. Okay, all right, So I
guess I'll take a look and see if there's anything
caught in the voles, the full the bulls. Yeah, yeah,

(01:16:29):
just keep take a look. And uh, while I'm doing that,
if you want to send us a message, feed the
Badger dot com slash just the tip. Put them in quickly.
I might be able to catch him and push him
through the voles. And if you want to support the show,
feed the Badger dot com slash support. I don't know
if you have any final thoughts. It looks like Mike
was not not at all intrigued by anything that we

(01:16:50):
talked about.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
So yeah, it's okay. It's not for everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
No, it's not. It's more female insanity. Like it's it's
just they are in that place where they become hypnotized
by their own emotions. And I actually find that article
to be hilarious because she's asking, how do we stop
this thing that we're doing? You stop doing it, okay,

(01:17:16):
You learn to control your emotions and choose a better action.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
Right, You are.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Addicted to this particular emotional feeling of rumination and companionship
with your sisters, except your engaging in destroying each other's
mental health and reproductive prospects. And it's like people don't
want to talk about how there is a female instinct
to destroy other women's reproductive prospects. Like you, if you

(01:17:44):
ever watch like meerkat manor no, the female meerkats would
compete over that. Women are like that too, there's an
instinct to destroy other women's ereproductive prospects. So you're sitting
there and what you're giving each other is the feeling
of destroying each other while hating on men, while bonding

(01:18:05):
over hating on men.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
That is.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
So fucking sick and disturbing, and the only way you
stop it is by stopping it, by choosing to stop it.
But of course, women have this tendency to see themselves
more in terms of how things impact them and the
emotions they get out of them than the taking the
actions to prove their lives, and GROC actually showed that

(01:18:30):
when it analyzed those feminists I was arguing with for
emotional rumination versus positive action taking and found no more
emotional rumination women are prone to that which is why
they seem to get hypnotized by their own emotions into
doing stupid things like taking a contraindicated substance like thailanol

(01:18:50):
during pregnancy to supposedly stick it to the Orange Man.
There is no logical analysis that makes that make sense.
Only makes sense is if they're chasing the dragon of
their own self righteous emotions, Well, good luck with you,
because that's that's some serious that is some seriously self
destructive behavior. And if you keep chasing that dragon, there

(01:19:13):
ain't gonna be much self left that hasn't been destructed. Okay,
I'm going to do another refresh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:20):
I got a super chat in the meantime. ZARANX gave
us five and says, I think this just shows how
irresponsible Trump is with his power. He could be telling
people not to get married and have kids who increase
birth rates. I don't know if those people should be
having kids though. It's going to be yeah, well no, no, yeah,

(01:19:40):
but I get I get what you're I get your joke,
all right, that's it. What he should do.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Is very cleverly tell them that doctors have have said
that people shouldn't vote Republican.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
Yeah, or he could say you know what I hate men? Now?
We should all hate men now and see what we do.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Oh, we could look at Olivia Petti's novel What, Oh
good Lord. This is the This is imagine we give
celebrities of power. They don't deserve power. This is from
her novel, power they haven't earned. What happens when they
exploit it a romance novel. Imagine you've just spent the
night with the most famous man on the planet, except
you don't quite remember it. That's what happens to Rose,

(01:20:23):
a twenty somethingter woman who seemingly has everything going for her.
Maybe you shouldn't have drank so much. Working for one
of the most powerful news outlets in the country, Rose
spends her days doing pr for glossy magazines. There are
tedious spreadsheets, flashing divas, and many a list parties. It's
one of those parties where she meets Milo Jack's, a
world famous, globally adored British pop sensation. An unlikely flirtation

(01:20:46):
turns to an even more unlikely evening, and then Rose
wakes up unable to piece it all together. What happens
next changes everything. Gold Rush is a story about consent,
celebrity culture, and trying to figure out where women fit
in a world that consistently devalues and disrespects their bodies.
Compared to what you remember, She's part of the generation
of women that's breaking new ground and being the most

(01:21:07):
rapy human beings on the planet. Yeah, now, flat out right,
no excuses, rape, weapons, rape, drugs, rape. She is part
of the generation and the sex that is the rapist
on the planet. And they keep writing these books about
how they're victims. Okay, I'm good. Yeah, I'm not good,

(01:21:30):
but I'm good. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Okay, No, yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Okay, all right, all right, let's I'll do one final
refresh to see if anybody's put something through U. Nope,
all right, we're getting on that score. So feed the
Badger dot com slash just the tip if you want
to send a message at anytime after the show is over.
Those messages go into our message repository and they sit
there until we can address them at the next show.

(01:21:55):
So don't think you're just throwing it into the void.
Feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip. Okay,
back to you run all right.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Well, if you guys like this video, please don't like subscribe,
cannot already subscribe the bellflonifications, leave us a comment, let
us know what you guys think about what we discussed
on the show today, and please please please share this
video because sharing is caring. Thank you guys so much
for coming on today's episode of Maintaining Frame, and we'll
talk to you all in the next one.

Speaker 6 (01:22:19):
Men's right activists are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines.
They are talking point machines. They are impossible to fucking
deal with, especially if you have like especially if you
have like a couple of dudes who have good memory.
On top of that too, holy shit, you're fucked