Woman’s desires are silenced; men’s desires are evil | Maintaining Frame 179

Women, literature, smut, and MoDeRn WrItInG, OH MY

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio. And he
was Brian, I'm here with Allison, and this is episode
one nine of maintaining Frame. Women's desires are silenced, men's
desires are evil? And what's the what's on the things? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
All right, So we got three requests from the ineffable
Richard Bierre, and the first one is the absolute degeneracy
of modern writing, and it is by the second stage,
I think. And she does analysis of writing, which is

(00:41):
second story, and she does analysis of writing and the
current state of the publishing industry, which I don't even
know if you can refer to it as literature. It
is basically just prawn porn wall to wall, every day,
every moment for women, put out in public where wherever

(01:02):
it can. It just like it's basically just filling up
the crooks and cant crannies like a gigantic tsunami of
gooning everywhere. It's just flooding everywhere. And it's because we
don't really, we don't actually push back against women's sexuality

(01:24):
in any capacity at all, really dead We barely barely
control women when it comes to their sexual violence. In fact,
I would argue that we don't and much less. They're
fantasies which now are encrusting the entire society. We are
actually turning into a society, a society wide concrusted mess

(01:50):
of women's fantasies. You see that it's in the the
handmaiden's tail, which is like I just recently saw did
you see this post? It was a post of a
woman who took a picture of herself in a handmaid
handmaiden's dress and incidentally, looking at the woman, she probably

(02:12):
should be in gray and emptying trash cans, not an
actual sexy red handmaiden, but she's And she was like
standing beside some guards or some National guardsmen in Washington,
d C. Have you seen this photo?

Speaker 3 (02:28):
No?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, So there was four like guardsmen who were just
sort of standing there making things more safe, and she
posed herself and another woman in sexy red handmaiden's dresses
because it's it's the red symbolizes their desirability, of course,
and these dudes are just standing there making sure people
don't you know, get kidnapped, get things stolen, you know, robbed, carjackings,

(02:54):
just trying to enforce the laws, as you know, as
is happening in Washington, DC's and all of this stuff
is going down. Whether or not you like Donald Trump,
this is what's happening. And she's making she's making it
about herself in some kind of sexual exploitation of women
by posing herself beside these guys, and these guys are

(03:15):
just chilling because they know that she's probably not a
danger of any sort. And then one dude's like waving
to the camera like Hi, mom, it's just And that
is turning this political situation into a fantasy that centers

(03:36):
your sexual desirability. That's what that is. There's absolutely no
reason to harass these men while they're doing work to
draw them into your weird, fucked up political sexual Gorean
fantasy otherwise known as nineteen eighty four plus gore for women,

(03:57):
this contrived nonsense to the Handmaiden's tale. There's no reason
for it except that you are wanting to make a
public spectacle of yourself as a as a as a ming,
as a actor in your own freaking stage. And that's
like this. The politics is becoming saturated with women's thinking

(04:21):
via their sexuality, so thinking in terms of this constant Oh,
I'm going to be exploited sexually, I'm going to be
sexually assaulted, et cetera, et cetera. That that that constant
refocusing on the ultimate desirability of you as a woman.
And then you have like female sexual fantasies being stole
in Walmart at eye level with toddlers and all of

(04:42):
this other crap. And it's again because we don't say
to women, stow it. We say it to men. You know,
you're not going to find. You're not going to find
I don't know, foot fetishes monthly on the on the
lower rack at Walmart. You know, we tell men to
stow that ship, put it in brown paper bags, keep

(05:03):
it in your rumpus rooms, you know, that kind of thing.
Just don't bring it out into public, don't Yeah, don't
expose it to But no women can just they can
just shove their sexuality into everything, into politics, into literature.
And that's basically what we're discussing. So obviously the title
is ironic. Women are not being silenced. They're allowed to

(05:27):
and at any attempt at imposition of any kind of
boundaries or sense of uh morals, you know, like this
isn't appropriate for public display any of that, or this
isn't really relevant to the politics of DC, Like how
did how does the National Guard coming in to reduce

(05:48):
crime and DC have anything to do with the Handmaiden's tail?
Exactly nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Well there is, okay, well they obviously want to protest that,
and and yes the message doesn't seem to match. But
maybe they think that policing women in this in this
role as the biggest victims of you know, using like
the National Guard to police Washington, DC might have a

(06:17):
more effective emotional effect because you're seeing women. I mean,
I can't that's if I'm being really charitable, that's what
I can think of.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
So, yeah, I should find that photo for you guys
so you can take a look at it. But of
course we do have to describe it for our non
viewers listening after the fact. It was just ridiculous and
I understand the cracked logic, but really it's just an
excuse to insert your sexuality where it doesn't belong.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah. I don't even think it has anything to do
with like like what you're learning, you know, like like that,
like people knowing how to write or having been taught.
I think it's just like, you know, everyone now can
write blogs, and emails, and so everybody gets the idea
that they're a writer, and then they just start writing smut.
And there are people who want that. And the only

(07:10):
thing is is that we just don't accept that women
want it too. That's basically the only thing is that
people just don't want to accept that this is something.
And it's not like a certain kind of woman, like
a you know, like some kind of trailer park hand
beast that eats chocolates all day and watches reality TV. No,
it's it's just women, like not all of them, but
you know, women of any background, of any class, of

(07:33):
any creed, they they all have this m hm.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
And so I figured we'd look at somebody talking about
what publishing has turned into, and then we'd look at
someone talking another individual talking about why the Wheel of
Time failed, Greg Owen, because that is something that is
media that should have appealed to men. And of course,

(08:00):
once again, I'm guessing that it also had specific changes
to appeal to a female audience's and products sensibilities as well.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
That might be well, probably, I don't know about that.
I never watched Wheel of Time because I knew it
was going to be girl Boss trash Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Just what the usually that's part and parcel that you
have the girl Boss trash and then certain characters or
situations are altered also appeal to the romanticy audience because
that's yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
And.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
It is it like could this have all just been?
Because I mean, I'm not saying it never exists. Obviously
it's always existed, but like the making it mainstream and
making it so like ubiquitous. Is that because of Twilight?

Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I never read it, but
that's my that's what I would guess.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, Okay, let's let's let's get into it. Let's let's start,
all right.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
So the second story it's called.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
The Things, all right, So, if you would like to
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(09:26):
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(09:48):
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(10:09):
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(10:32):
dot com. All right, so yeah, let's just get into it.
I mean it's quite late already.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
All right, Let's play a bit of the intro. This
is the first video, the Absolute Degeneracy of modern writing
by the second story. I mean, do you think you
want to do this one because of the order you
sent them to me? So? Or do you under this
wheel of time thing?

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Well, let's go into the wheel of time. It'll be
like a bit of a change of pace.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
All right, So this is greg O when the wheel
of time failed because modern writers don't know people. Okay,
so let me just I got the time codes here,
so all right, let's start with the opening, because I
always start with the opening because then they're sort of like,
you know, setting the stage right.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
So, hey, you know what makes a story great is people.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
The people.

Speaker 5 (11:23):
I know it's common to talk about people like hating
Hollywood and wokeness and such, but I know at this
point a lot of you aren't angry, really not anymore.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
You're bored.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
You're apathetic, like, oh, what's that a male feminist is
making a video game that subverts Christianity and the heroine
has a masculine look.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yon.

Speaker 5 (11:43):
More and more stories are not focused on characters who
behave like real people because the writers have never met
any They've only seen online avatars and tumbler fan forums.
So all this left, then is the plot, which leaves
you with and then stories this happened, and then this happens,
and then this happens.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Then Okay, yeah, that's uh so, because you don't have
an in depth character or an understanding of character to
be the hidden structure in your story. So the evolution

(12:26):
of your character or the revealing of your character as
the hidden structure. He's right that stories degenerate into if
and then so and what happened then, and instead of
presenting stakes and meaning, they just present the next twist,
what a twist, which also breaks down well into uh,

(12:48):
you know, shareable sound bites for our five second attention
span now and spectacle and big jump scare, surprise moments
and twists and but not twists that are really set
up very well, because usually the setup is, you know,
five minutes and then you have the twist and andy

(13:10):
and they really lean into a lot of oh, this
is a subversion of what you expect these characters to
be based in your like, well, yes, we already know
that you do these subversions. We are aware. All of
your subversions are not subversions. Now they are versions, reversions,
I don't know, they're they're anti subversions. They have reverted

(13:33):
the regressions.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Sorry, they're they're really predictable, so that I mean, that's
why they're not subversions, because we can see them coming
a mile away. Like that. We we didn't go through it.
But there's that new Apple Plus series called Savant or
The Savant about a woman who you know, during the
day she's a mother, but at night she goes on
the internet and like fights against extreme extremist content. I

(13:58):
guess like men, you know online, the patriarchy. I don't
know what it is, but yeah, I mean like I
don't know. I don't think that I don't. I don't
think the problem is people's distensions fans, because I think
that regular people still want to watch good movies. I mean,

(14:21):
for example, Jaws was re released recently on its fiftieth anniversary,
and it was number two in the box office, and
I wouldn't I wouldn't say Jaws is a movie that's
like and then, and then and then. In fact, if
you if you've never seen Jaws, or maybe you haven't
seen it in a while.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
There's suspense.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
There's a lot of suspense, and it's a very slow burn,
like there are moments where the shark comes but like
the Shark's not in the movie that much, and most
of it is the three men hunting the shark, and
they're just like bonding and stuff, right, they're getting to
know each other, like you have like the Captain's quint
and then you have like Rob Schneider's character, and then

(15:03):
you have you know, Richard Dreyfuss, and mainly those three
guys are the main the only people in the movie
for most of it, and then you see the sharks sometimes.
But it was number two in the box office, like
it was an and you well, some people say that's
because everything else is awful. I mean, yes, that's partly true,
but I think that it shows you that that movies

(15:24):
like Jaws or you know, good films that don't do
the end then and then and then thing people still
want that. So it's certainly not an issue of the audience.
It's an issue of the people who are telling the stories.
So I got to ask, how did they get this job?
And also, you know, going back to that earlier clip

(15:44):
of Neil Druckman, you know, bragging about his new like
his next woke video game project, Intergalactic, the Heretic Prophet,
which you know subverts Christianity and has a masculine looking
female character in it. I mean you could say that's
you know, like it's lazy, it's predictable, it's boring. But
but why aren't we asking the question? Why then does

(16:08):
he insist on doing it? Like, what is the motive
behind this content that clearly nobody wants? I mean, like,
I don't think nobody wants it. Why has this stuff existed? What?
In like we've been getting it still and people cope
around it. Like Concord was a game put up by
Sony and it was such a catastrophic failure because of

(16:29):
its horrendous art design that it had to shut down
after ten days. And like they had to shut down
this triple A project after ten days because no one
was playing it because of how ugly it was. And
the ugliness was on purpose on their part. They were like,
we need this to look a certain way because we
have to have representation, and it was just ugly. And

(16:52):
they're still like there are people at Sony saying, well,
this is a good thing that it failed, because they're
still coping around is what I'm saying. They're still making
excuses for it. You get to ask, like why what
is this about. I don't think it's about like trying
to produce a piece of art that people want at all.
I don't think it's about that. But anyway, sorry, I'm

(17:15):
I digressed a lot.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, well, it might also just be a fantasy of power,
fantasy around salvation for the male author, to be honest,
like that, I find, you know, there's this fantasy of
giving a woman everything and producing a world in which
she you know, it's like a fantasy world of perfection

(17:39):
or and I think that some male authors get sucked
into that. Then then they write like things like Ray,
where she just ridiculous, like the world bends over backwards
to make itself about her and to make her get
everything that she could possibly want and be seen as
a great hero. And it's it's almost like a like

(18:00):
Santa Claus syndrome.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah. Like, well, Neil Druckman like personally knew Anita Sarcassian
and he did talk about how she, like how much
of an impact she had on him. So yeah, I
don't know what else to I don't think I have
to add anything else. You guys go from there, Okay, So.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Let's go to his main point maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
So for for.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
I think it's like right here, okay, I'm looking forward to.

Speaker 5 (18:39):
And aspirations of humans that live outside the l A stream.
I'll tell you about the show's failings, but.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
A little bit before then, or for yeah, to just
start discover.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
Why Amazon wanted to ride this name recognition and why
so many people love this series. When you read them,
you can tell Robert Jordan lived an actual life, He
met real people. He understood the concerns and challenges and
aspirations of humans that live outside the LA screenwriting bubble,
not for shows feelings. But also, I'm gonna tell.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
You he's not the original writer of Wheel of Time.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Have you read Wheel of Wheel of Time? I, okay,
I'm gonna be really honest. I've I tried to read
Wheel of Time, and uh, like, I'm not a fan
of epic fantasy. So yeah, I'm not a fan of
epic fantasy. I I did not get through the first
chapter because I got really really tired of the young female,

(19:38):
the young sprightly female character talking to this person, then
talking to that person, then talking to another person. And
I don't know, it isn't for me, I can see
that it would be for you. Know it would, it
would hit its audience, and its audience would like it, right,
So I'm going to just be like, this guy is
a representation of the person of people who liked it.

(20:01):
I am not, So I'm not, and we're actually the
writer's retreat soon will be going over the TV show,
so I will be looking at it from a perspective
of someone who wasn't a fan of the original. So
I'm going to just take it from from what are
what are the merits of this story that's being presented
on the screen to me at this time, rather than

(20:23):
that it doesn't doesn't honor the source material, and I'm
guessing that it's the TV show is going to fail
massively to impress me, even though, again I'm not a
fan of the original. But I just wanted to say
that just to be clear to people.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Like your reasoning is your reasons for not being a
fan of are of the original books are probably different
from yes, issues with the show? Oh yeah, yeah, you're
not a fan of epic fantasy.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
No oh so yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:54):
What yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Oh my god, no, I can't. I can't handle the
level of stuff that is put into epic fantasy, like
it just it feels like there's so much stuff between
you and the story. And I know it's because people
who like epic fantasy want to immerse themselves in the
world and the cultures and everything else, because epic fantasy

(21:19):
is almost like an imagined travel log, if you will.
And I also don't like reading travelogs. I like going
to places, but I don't like reading about going to places,
So if so, dumping me in a story where there's
a lot a lot of world building is not something

(21:39):
that's really going to resonate with me. I don't mind
some but just like I don't really like a heck
of a lot of lore either, you know, I don't
necessarily like a lot of world buildings. So epic fantasy
is not my thing. But that's why I don't like it.
And I know that about myself. And I'm not going
to say that the Wheel of Time series is bad
because it doesn't appeal specifically to me. But what yeah, so,

(22:00):
but yes, it's going to be a completely different there's
gonna when we go over the Wheel of Time series.
I will have issues with the TV show, no doubt,
but it won't be coming from the position of someone
who was really enamored of the original work. Honestly, I can't.
I also don't like George R. R. Martin's work either. I've

(22:22):
read more of it, and I think, I think ultimately
it's just I don't like epic fantasy. Although George there
were there were things in Martin's work that I specifically
didn't like that wasn't related to the epic fantasy of it.
But then there's also like, you know what, let's get
let's move on.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
It's going too far in I was just getting no,
it's okay, I get it, I get it. I never
watched Wheel of Time, I never read it. It's just
not and I just assume when they when I saw
they were adapting it, I was like, yeah, this is
going to be like a you know, like basically another
way for a feminists to like trumpet their beliefs and
not knowing what the books were based on. But according

(23:04):
to Greg Owen here, he says that it's it wasn't
like a female power fantasy. It was like it was
a pretty good balance, that's what he said. It was
appealing to men and women. Yeah originally, yeah, yeah, I
wasn't written for one audience or the other.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
It was just personally, I didn't really enjoy it that much.
But on that level, but I'm coming from I have
a I am a woman of culture when it comes
to representation of the sex and gender and fiction. So yeah,
there's very little that appeals to me on that score.
I'll just put it that way, all right.

Speaker 5 (23:43):
Well, anyway, let's keep going why his characters feel real
and his series contains themes and ideas that touch us.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Just like I need you to touch that like button.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Uh well, I guess we could. Everybody touched are like button?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah new cup.

Speaker 5 (24:01):
My kids were a hobby lobby, bacon and eggs. Super cool,
But I got that was one of the biggest themes.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I guess really quick.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
So okay, yes, this is very nice. This autistic is
more popular now, huh Like super turbo autism in your
in your in your YouTube videos is more popular now,
is it? I guess awkwardness. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
We have a billion subs.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, exactly, like we're Autism Central where the episodes are
ground zero for.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Takes. Okay, let's let's keep going with this guy. Now.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
A good majority of this video is going to be
about how the show failed at gender dynamics, because that
was one of the biggest themes in the books. But first,
let's hit some smaller topics that likely put viewers off
a little bit, and hopefully you're going to see how
these little problems add up to an audience that simply
is not invested.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Now. So the show, by the way, I looked it
up really quick. The show is on its third it's
on its fourth season, so it was running for a
while despite all of these failings, which I think were
there from the beginning. There were people who were big
fans of the books, and they were like, I'm going
to stick it out. I'm going to stick it out,
and they just kept thinking out. And I remember hearing

(25:26):
about Wheel of Time from my friends a long time ago,
like they were like, oh man, they got adapt at all.
I'd love them to adapt that. And I guess the
people of that generation that were excited for that adaptation
have grown up and some of them have done this adaptation.
Not my friends, but like people of that same you know,

(25:47):
audience size. So this is the adaptation they were waiting for.
And I'm I used to be a guy that was
always like getting excited for adaptations and things I like
now I'm like, please, don't touch it, just leave it.
I like it as it was in my memories, you know.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
Yeah, it's important to reiterate how much most viewers do
not care about the added eroticism in the show, and
exponentially more for the homo eroticism. A key concept that
pushers of this kind of stuff do not understand is
that does not care is not the same as hates,
and it's also different from does not mind?

Speaker 2 (26:26):
All right, did I call this?

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
All right? So what you are misunderstanding about all of
this is that this show is not aimed for men. Okay,
They've taken away anything that could be considered entertainment for men,
anything that could be considered something that men would want
to invest in in terms of a story, and they
are turning it specifically to an audience of women. And

(26:55):
I would argue a sub audience of women, because women
like me, even though epic fantasy isn't my thing. But
I know other women who like epic fantasy, and they
probably also wouldn't like this kind of adaptation. A specific
group of tumbler brained women, that's what they're aiming towards.

(27:16):
And so they're trying to inch it towards romanticy, that's
what they're doing. So expect everything that would appeal to
you as a male reader to disappear for the most part,
and be replaced by everything that would appeal to the
average female romanticy and nobody has this question like, should

(27:40):
we be turning this into porn for women? Okay, now,
in some ways Game of Thrones sort of set the
stage for this, but I think that at the very
least the sexuality and Game of Thrones I found it
really off putting. But it's not just aimed for female

(28:04):
romanticy readers. It has something that's doing something with the plot.
I mean, I think we could have used less of it,
but whatever. Having watched The House of Dragging On, I
actually it's actually made Game of Thrones a lot more watchable,
simply because there's so much what the fuck is going

(28:28):
on in Game of Thrones, whereas in House of Dragging
On it is so dreary and nothing happens except people
women moping over the consequences of decisions that they're making
and then blaming everyone else for them. But regardless, so
I think Game of Thrones can be blamed a little
bit for this, but Game of Thrones sexuality wasn't specifically

(28:52):
aimed at the romanticy market. This is so if something
gets adapted in the modern era, have to think of
it less of a genuine adaptation and more of a
fan thick re envisioning of the source material. And I

(29:12):
think that, Uh, the problem is that fans of the original,
like the book a World, Wheel of Time, don't realize
that they aren't the target audience here. They're using name recognition,
they're using story elements, and they are creating a erotic
version and they do this. They did this in port

(29:33):
you know how you'd have like Pirates of the Caribbean
and then you would have the porn version. Yeah, and
this is essentially what this is. This is there's the
Wheel of Time books and then there's the porn version
of Wheel of Time and that's what they're putting on

(29:54):
TV and it is aimed for women. And they think
that this is a legitimate adaptation because nobody says, should
we really be injecting women's porn into an existing ip
and then calling it that thing? Yeah, what I'm saying, Yeah,

(30:14):
it's just like it's like a it's like the you know,
the Scooby Doo Gang, and and and they find out
the culprit and then they unmasked but culprit and it's
like this thing is wearing the mask of Wheel and
Time and if you take it off, it's some woman shlicking.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yep, it's just porn.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
It's just porn.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's just porn for women. And that yeah, I mean that.
When I heard that, I was like, I don't think because, like,
you know, like I was mentioning like people I knew
that Red Wheel of Time. They they didn't talk about
it in the context of it having sex in it
at all. It was just like this epic fantasy and
there was a lot of magic and stuff, and that's

(30:54):
what they thought was cool about it. It wasn't like, you know,
I mean, it's but this is the thing we just
don't understand. Why don't we want to admit that women
have the horny really bad too. They might even have
it worse now than men. Like, why can't we just
admit that and then just be like, Okay, so this
is porn and it's on you know, Amazon Prime.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
We can then you'd have to admit that women's sexuality
doesn't belong everywhere.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, exactly, it doesn't doesn't.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
It doesn't need to ring a slug trail over every
single exploitable ip in existence. Yeah, everything has to glisten
with with somebody's juices and freaking crust, you know, like
we can contain that to the bedroom so that we
aren't just sliding around.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah, but you but that sounds like you're silencing women though, Yeah, exactly,
try to press them. That's that's the Handmaid's.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Tail, exactly everything. If you don't let women's sexuality go
everywhere and coat everything, then you are silencing them. Meanwhile, meanwhile,
men can't even have their non sexual like because Wheel
of Time was about a story, you know, it was

(32:13):
about presenting philosophies, presenting characters, presenting interactions and plots that
were interesting in conjundrums and all of that. It's platonic fantasy.
Men can't even have that anymore because if they don't
allow women's sexuality in, they're silencing women. So if you
don't say yes women every aspect of women's sexuality, you

(32:37):
are turning them into the Handmaiden's tale. Like it's it's
like it's insane. It is a war on women on men. Sorry,
it is a war on men because it's it's because
I hear war on women constantly, so that's why I
made the mistake. It is a war on men's ability
to say no.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
Yes, okay, does not care is pure indifference, Like how
I do not care about soccer or football or whatever.
For you international folks, I am one hundred percent neutrally uninterested,
neither good nor bad. But if I'm looking to spend
my free time and an entertainment product heavily features this

(33:24):
sport with no hard feelings, I'm just probably gonna find
something else unless it has some other massive draw like
ted Lasso, which you absolutely should be watching.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Obviously we're bombed out that O'Brien Torres, but I'm gonna
move up next thing.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Okay, building, that's fine, but you're not the audience this,
let's be honest.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
No, but what you see what he's doing there is
he's basically saying, I'm about to criticize the thing, and
I don't want you guys to think that I hate
you know, like that I hate women. Well, it's basically
like trying to cover his bases before he makes his argument,
you know, just a typical normy response to this kind

(34:07):
of like because like basically, anytime current modern storytelling is criticized,
then the people, you know, like the cathedral, the media,
the people who create the show, the people who are fans,
the activists, whatever, they circle the wagons. They come after you.
They call you a bigot, they call you this or that.
And he's trying to protect himself. Oh you sweet summer child,

(34:31):
you're wasting your time. But that's what he's trying to do.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
So yeah, okay, so no, I agree he is. But
you know, you can hate this stuff. I'm somebody who's
you know, I have read dark romance, romance, I read
romance in the past. I haven't read any of that
recently because it's just, yeah, there's there's too much of it.

(34:56):
It's just everywhere, and it's pointless, like it's just just
added in in order to appeal to a specific horny demographic.
And it's like the the fan service is now making
everything fall apart, right, It's like it's at the expensive character,
it's at the expense of of plot, it's at the

(35:18):
expense of everything, and it's just exhausting. Now, I guess
you could make the argument that that anime has a
lot of fan service for men in it, although they're
there's fan service for women too.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Well that's true. But the thing is is that like
a lot of the anime that's like heavily fan service
or etchy or like borderline, it gets criticized. Like there
are people who say, you know, I like they'll be like,
I can't watch this show because it seems to be
nothing but fan service. Maybe maybe it'll moves away from
whatever it was when it first came out, like maybe

(35:54):
when it started it wasn't that, and then over time
it falls into that trap. You know, I'm sure there's
plenty of examples. I don't watch that much anime at all,
but I'm sure that there are examples. But the point is, though,
if you criticize anime for that, you're not gonna get
like a massive you know, like you're not going to
get labeled a bigot and people going through your social media.

(36:15):
So if they get you fired, like that's not gonna happen.
Some people might complain because you're complaining about their stuff,
but like so what.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
You know, Yeah, and you're right, because there's there's there
is a pathway, there's an expected dialogue around controlling men's sexuality,
let's face it, and critiquing it, and that that that
dialogue is that that does not happen anywhere except maybe here.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, anime is a pretty tame.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Compared to what women Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's it's
it is tame.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, it's pretty tame, like oh, panties, you know. And
that's getting to the point now where people are pretty
desensitized to it. And anyway, so m hm, but anyway,
uh yeah, so let's uh, let's move on to the
next thing. Here we go.

Speaker 5 (37:04):
It's pretty much ending, I.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Said the.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Back on a little stry.

Speaker 5 (37:10):
In one episode the season, Rand is viewing memories from
his ancestors, his direct bloodline. He sees multiple visions going
all the way back to a time when one of
his forefathers set out to protect some artifacts because the
world was pretty much ending.

Speaker 6 (37:24):
I said the teenies, is this Rand, Now, did you
notice something that might cause a problem for the ancestral memory?

Speaker 2 (37:38):
Uh? The gay contact? What Rand was not gay in? They?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Fuck it? Never mind? What am I even bothering with
with that?

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Okay, but but Alison, the women want to see them
be gay. Women like to see heterosexual sexy stuff, lesbian
sexy stuff, and gay sexy stuff. Men don't really work
that way. We're pretty much like I don't know, maybe
we're just boring. All right, I got a superchow? Do

(38:08):
you want me to read it? Or do you want to?

Speaker 2 (38:10):
All right?

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Anonymous thank you gives us ten dollars for a superchow
and says Danny Sully. Kowski is making the rounds on
podcasts recently talking about feminism and female reproductive suppression. Very
interesting that she pointed out that men are simply the
unlucky and indirect target of feminism. Basically that feminism is
not an attack on men, but instead they are disposable

(38:35):
and convenient tools used to attack other women. Makes so
much sense now why Karen claims she is not an
MRA but an anti feminist. It got me thinking further.
Is Alison pro male? Pro is Allison's pro male beliefs
just another tool to attack her enemies, which are feminists
persuading women not to reproduce. I would love to see

(38:55):
Alison start interviewing guests, even though Brian is doing an
awesome job all ready. It would be refreshing content to
see live any civil challenges uh to her opinions, I
nominate Danny Silkowski or Andrew Wilson to the pilot of
Coffee Time with Alison Thankyous'.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
You can nominate as much as you want. But I
don't think that. I mean, I don't want to say
it won't happen, but you know that there's I don't
think that. Uh. For whatever reason, I don't think like,
I don't think that's going to happen, but I mean
I can, I can talk about it.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
My pro male beliefs are mostly because I like men.
They got. Honestly, what I started in this, I did,
like if you want an understanding of where I'm coming from.
When I started on this, well, first of all, my
mother gave me the first book, the first vaguely anti

(39:54):
feminist book that I ever had, and that sort of
started me on the path. But one of my big
concerns was male victim of sexual assault and domestic violence
and advocacy for them. And when I started, I thought
that feminists were simply misinformed or ignorant about the issues.
And then as I attempted to inform them, I became

(40:16):
more and more aware that this isn't ignorance. It's active
malice towards male victims of sexual assault and domestic violence.
There's active discrimination against them. They're very aware, and many
of them are very aware of the actual scope. Like
Mary Coss knows the scope of how many men will
report forced sex in surveys. That's why she has made

(40:40):
it a point to go in and manipulate the phrasing
in such a way to make that not obvious. And
so when I started, I was like, Oh, I'm just
going to inform people of these issues. And now I'm
at the point where it's obvious to me that if
we want to see full recognition of male victims of
sexual assault and domestic violence, feminism can't exist in a

(41:02):
world where that happens, because they are using these narratives
that men use sexual violence and domestic sexual and domestic
violence to uphold patriarchy. And the biggest counter the biggest
counter evidence to that is the sheer scope of sexual
abuse of men and boys and physical abuse of men

(41:25):
and boys by women. So they're never going to acknowledge it,
they're never going to support services for these things. In fact,
in the UK, they lump statistics around sexual and domestic
abuse of boys and men into statistics on women. So
they use men to increase the overall prevalence and give
them zero services. So this is the act of this

(41:46):
is at this point I am fully able to say
that these are bad actors. But I never conceived of
my advocacy for male victims of sexual assault in domestic
violence as a tool to harm feminists. I never originally
conceived of it. It took a long time before I

(42:07):
realized that feminism has put itself in the way of
that advocacy. Therefore feminism has to go. So it's not
really like I never really started from the position of
fighting feminists. I started from the position of advocating specific issues.

(42:27):
And while that was like the issue that really concerns me,
I still also, you know, false accusation, loss of parental rights,
discrimination in schools, and all of the other stuff that
comes out of it is a concern for me. But
like I said, I didn't start by saying, Okay, I'm
going to be anti feminists. I started by saying I

(42:49):
want these issues addressed, and then it became abundantly apparent
to me that the only way that these issues are
going to be addressed is if feminism ceases to have
the sway that it does over these institutions, or at
least there is a space where people who can build
these services can operate outside of the feminist framework, so

(43:10):
that that is that's where I came from. So I
don't know if I is there like an element of
intersectional I think I'm too dumb for really to understand
and to that level intersectional competition between women, I'm not
really good at it that that well. I mean, I

(43:30):
have sort of developed these skills simply by rote dealing
with these women online, but they were never something that
I come to me naturally. And I'm in terms of
competing against women who who who don't want to reproduce. Honestly,

(43:52):
that's not my focus either. Again, it's mostly on advocating
for men's issues. I just noticed that the fact that
our society has gone over the feminist cliff, refused men's
issues in order to support feminist ideology is resulting in
a complete freefall of the birthright. And so I bring

(44:14):
that up as a way of explaining the consequences of
ignoring the issues that we bring up more than actual
advocacy against women who do that. I'm sorry I'm not.
I'm I am. I am a thoroughbred pro male rights person.

(44:36):
I'm always going to focus on that. I'm always going
to look at things through that lens, and nobody can
stop me. So I hope that answers your question. If
you have any further questions, you can also pop into
like the vertical Chat and ask for any clarification. Okay, well,
and they'll try to stop me, but I'll keep doing

(44:56):
it until they cut my tongue out.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
And yeah. So again, I don't have a lot of
context because I didn't watch the show, I didn't read
the books. But apparently they made this guy gay or
an ancestor of his gay, and I think it was
just to scratch a niche that women watch the show had.
I mean, that's the only reason. So let's see what

(45:21):
else is.

Speaker 5 (45:22):
Wrong here these concept it's just more of what the
viewer doesn't care about on top of being a head
scratching story problem. But it continues with the casting.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Sisters.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
This week we lost Mabith Giant again.

Speaker 5 (45:41):
Story problem because we're working with a magic system that
has distinct male and female has. But beyond that, it's
another immersion breaking reminder to the viewer that this is
a show made by people who want to impose what
they wish the current world look like, instead of fleshing
out this fantasy world for their entertainment.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
They do so, I guess in the in the setting
the men and women, I think when the men and
women have different proclivities in magic, like the magic is
like it inherited and it's it's it's gotta there's a
sex component to it, So the women's magic works differently
in some way I don't really know. And the scene

(46:19):
showed a trans women and so he's like, how does
that work? Because that you know the book, there was
no trans woman in the book obviously. I mean if
there was, then they probably worked something out. But like
that that whole thing is like a giant monkey wrench
in the the lore, I guess, right, because the.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
Magic system is based on your biological sex, so your chromosome, right,
And I mean you could probably explore something interesting with
with a trans woman who does men's magic or is
subject to the restrictions that men are or whatever else.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Yeah, I don't know, it's just but like I guess
you could. But if that wasn't in the book, and
the people watching the show, want the book? Yeah, you know,
that's that's that's all.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I'm looking at this from a neutral how to improve
the actual storytelling without without looking at the com like, Okay,
I can look at this from this is not in
the lore, this is not in the book, keep it out.
You can also look at it from if you want
to do this, how do you implement it in a
way that is actually compelling. So I'm not saying that

(47:31):
it's legitimate from point of view one, No.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I understand, but I mean, like, obviously they just crammed
it in there, and obviously I didn't even think about
life that they They either they're stupid or they think
the audience is stupid and they're just gonna like let
that go, and no one's gonna say anything, and they
almost get dared to saying something. I dare you to
say something about this, right, But okay, let's let's keep going.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Well, before we continue, let me let me point something out.
I think that even more than the woke elements and
maybe this isn't like a woke fundamental mindset or the
social justice warrior elements or whatever the name keeps changing,
I don't like that. But even more than that. This

(48:17):
represents a complete disrespect to the audience. Yeah, and that's
actually what really aggravates me, because the thing is, if
you watch any older films, you will see diverse characters.
You'll sometimes see actual trans women and trans men characters,
or gender fluidity or like some like it hot and

(48:39):
other stuff like that. You will see this stuff, but
it is written in a way that makes the stories compelling.
It still respects the audience. And there was a Hollywood
at some point that respected the audience, the audience's time
and their investment in the story. And to me, that
is the worst part of all of this is that

(49:00):
these people have reversed the expectation of respect. As a storyteller,
you're there to earn the respect of your audience. Your
audience doesn't have to earn your respect by tolerating whatever
slop you put in front of them. And that, to
me is like the real fundamental problem with all of this.

(49:23):
I mean, I don't know if I offend people by
saying that, but that, to me is what's wrong. To me,
the lack of seeing yourself as having to earn the
respect of your audience, the lack of seeing yourself as
having to earn the skills to develop that merit as
a storyteller. That's what really aggravates me, and honestly, to me,

(49:46):
the real problem with the people that write this is
that they are lazy and entitled and they think they're
owed an audience.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
All right, the people in the audience care about Oh,
real quick, because I'm gonna get some comments. Just want
to head off the rebuttals from anybody that's gonna want
to say that, well, the books had transgenders, and they're
gonna bring up Aaron gar I just want you to
please take a minute consider the implications of using the
example of one of the villains, a highly lustful man

(50:20):
who was reincarnated into a woman's body as an ironic
punishment by Satan. Do you want to use that now
that apathy and discant.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
There's an example of an inn world like because if
the magic, if magic exists, then maybe the concept of
transgenderism itself is affected by magic. Because if you can
magically make yourself the opposite sex, then no, get then
you're gonna pass. You're just gonna be a woman. Yeah,

(50:51):
you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Cast yeah exactly. So it's because I'm a non starter.
But in this case he's saying the logic of this.
So the the character that's sort of the world equivalent
of Satan incarnated one of his lieutenants as a woman
as a punishment, I guess for disobedience, That's what I'm guessing.
Note from what I know.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Before, he was like a lustful man. That was like
the whole like, you know, you want to.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Screw with that? And the answer is a complete lack
of artistic integrity, sir. We are dealing with a complete
lack of artistic integrity. They don't want to be responsible
for any external standard, including understanding the lore in such
a way that they can, you know, find a place

(51:42):
to insert their trans character that makes sense in the
context of the plot, the lore of the characterization. They
don't want to do that because they'd have no artistic
integrity none. They just want to They just want to
do whatever is convenient, and they don't even care about
the implications of what they do to the things that

(52:03):
they advocate. I swear to God, this is the primary
sin here is sloth is laziness, yeah, and its self
it is laziness protected by self righteousness.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Well, yeah, I was gonna say laziness and pride because
like the inability to say I think I did this
wrong or poorly, because when people say that was bad,
then what happens They say, no, you're bad because you
didn't like what I made. So, yeah, all right, let's
be We've gone for over an hour and I'm a

(52:41):
little worried that I'm because I got to pick Lindsay up.
So what was the gender?

Speaker 2 (52:45):
The specific gender?

Speaker 1 (52:46):
I want to jump to the gender part. That's what
I was gonna do. That's exactly what I was gonna do.
So let's jump ahead to this hit one about YouTube.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
Did you use the ways to come back?

Speaker 2 (52:58):
It's not important, it won't come up again.

Speaker 5 (53:00):
That lack of tru detail makes the world feel tiny,
which isa, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Wait, what why are we talking about the size of
the world. Okay, don't don't move it. It's probably just
an issue with the with the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
Where he where he put his chapter?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah, I just want to make a point. That woman's
voice threw me right out.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
It sounded like it was like dubbed over, like when.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Are we going to stop for some ava kada coast?
I need my butt cheeks shined.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
I need my I mean my volve of bedazzled. Where's that? Like,
where's where's the bedazzling stall?

Speaker 1 (53:35):
In the Bazarre I always hated whenever, like somebody just
didn't know how to write themselves out of something, so
they would just make the characters say something like, well,
you know, you can't know that yet, Like they're basically
saying you don't we I can't tell you that now.
That's not important right now spoilers. That basically means the
writers like, I don't really have the answer to this

(53:56):
question yet, come back to me later.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
It is all right, Yeah, Laziness, self righteousness, and greed.
That's what this is. This, this, this entire project is
all of that.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
It is the We've covered three of the seven deadly
sins already. Then we got sloth, greed, and pride. What's next,
we got lust? That's four. So left is uh, you know, gluttony,
wrath and an envy. Yeah, I bet that will work

(54:39):
in here somehow. Okay, let's keep going. This is the
gender section of.

Speaker 5 (54:42):
What epic fantasy should feel like. Each location is seen away,
and it robs the world of any sense of scope.
It also reinforces that the characters aren't people. They are
game tokens that get moved around the board their journeys.
It don't matter except journey. These are where people grow,
and the writers, because they don't get people, these little

(55:06):
issues cause the view We subconsciously wonder what doesn't feel
right about the show, travel times, world building, casting, These
aren't just a collection of nitpicks. This is a core
storytelling problem. This is a world that doesn't feel real,
filled with people who also don't feel real, and the

(55:28):
lack of care and understanding shown by the folks making
this bleeds into every part of it. And even if
you don't consciously notice all of them, the whole experience
is weakened. And even non book fans are gonna stop
watching and they did.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Okay, the biggest issue with the show you hear me,
ok Can I.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Just just address some of this. It's because these shows
are made for shareable bites and visuals and and in
interactions that can be snipped and shared like emojis or memes.
And also again, laziness, laziness and I'm like, looking at

(56:13):
the actual there's some serious production values in this stuff, right,
and nobody like all of it's going to the production
values and for some reason, a stable of like you know,
one hundred and fifty writers, none of whom can actually
seem to be able to write, like, have no actual merit.

(56:35):
So it's like it's like the writing is an afterthought.
And what's interesting is that the more production value and
the more CGI you can shove into these things, the
more the writing becomes an afterthought. Because when you weren't ABE,
when you had something like Jason and the Argonauts, you
had to have compelling characters. You had to have compelling

(56:56):
plots because while some people will be there for the
novelty of the special effects, most people won't. And it's
your versimilitude in other aspects of your storytelling that it's
going to sell the like the clamation as real, right,
you have to have characters that feel real. You have

(57:17):
to have events that feel real. You have to have
a world that feels real to some degree, or at
least is presents a sense of adventure, as we were
talking about on the Speed Saver show. Otherwise people are
not going to buy into, like earlier versions of special effects.
And if you do present characters that people can resonate

(57:42):
with their with their expressions, like they can. They can
you know, if Luke sees some gigantic death star coming,
you can. You can resonate with his fear and his
you know, his determination or whatever that makes the death
star more real, even if the special effects aren't completely authentic.
But because we don't do that anymore, we don't focus

(58:04):
on for similitude in other areas that are basically quiet,
like you need that, you need writing to do that.
This stuff becomes hollow and it doesn't feel real because
the characters aren't real. The plot really isn't real, how
institutions function isn't real. And you know, like storytelling really, like,

(58:28):
at least it might be the central task of storytelling.
Storytellers is to be able to create a sense of
that authenticity just with words on a page. That's like
think about the CGI that that you get when you're
just words on a page, right, But they don't they
don't have those skills. There are one hundred and fifty

(58:49):
writers in the writer pools. None of them can actually write.
None of them know how to frame things in a
way that creates authenticity. It's it's so much easier to
just write out identity based chick tracks Okay, yeah, all.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Right, now he's going to talk about the gender thing.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
Okay, good handling of gender dynamics, falling into the same
traps of useless male characters and flawless females that have
been heavily robbing stories of their interests for over a decade. Now,
these folks really don't get how men and women behave.
It's a failure that's even more shameful since the source
material was all about this dynamic and how most of

(59:37):
our failures lie in seeing the opposite sex as the
opponent instead of a partner. Robert Jordan was an expert
at exploring the subtle differences or unadmitted similarities between men
and women, often in very humorous ways. One particular funny
scene from the books happens when parent and Fayl are
coming back to the town of Emmonsfield, and the mayor's

(59:58):
wife knows that Fayal is a four, so she takes
her aside for a quick little woman to woman chat
about how to handle these country men. A few pages later,
the couple has met up with two village men who
haven't seen parents since he left and he was single.
One takes him aside to give a little dad advice
about how to handle women, and it's basically the same advice.

(01:00:18):
Both times. Each group thinks they've outsmarted the other, and
it's a recurring theme with that town having a town
council of men and also a woman's circle, and each
one thinks they're really running the town and they're letting
the other play at running unimportant matters. It's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
It's actually accurate to his history. Peasant societies were very
much like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Yeah, and they worked.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Okay, so let's let's hear what they changed that into.

Speaker 5 (01:00:51):
Yeah, comedy in these books is so underrated. Unfortunately, the
show is made by people who are on six or
seventh wave feminism now and would not allow any of
this kind of humor, and they certainly didn't want to
have even the appearance of men being superior to women.
This killed the writing because it left zero room for levity,

(01:01:12):
and it resulted in the female characters being flawless, which
is another way of saying boring. When you're terrified to
give a character flaws, you also don't give them any
story whatsoever. And since the writers think that you're too
stupid to understand their enlightened ideals, They also end up
creating dialogue that is as terrible as it is insulting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
I came to say to you, it looks like you
didn't need it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
I love this shot.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Oh god, they You know what's great is they're still
doing that. They're still doing that. I don't need saving.
They're still doing that, like anybody gives a shit at
this point. I came to save you, but it looks
like I wasn't needed. Well that's all right, milady.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
So the queen McQueen kneel before her, kiss her feet. McQueen,
you saved me by your very presence, McQueen.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Uh, okay, you don't need saving.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Could they shut the fuck up now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Could you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Could you? If this is this is the ideal, ladies,
maybe you should just shut up about your complaints. And
in fact, if you don't need saving, maybe you can
do some saving. Have you ever think considered that? Let's
move on. Like I was just Jonthan was showing me
this clip of this woman who was talking about how
she she supports herself, and she's like, I'm a strong

(01:02:39):
independent woman woman, I support myself. And the men were
laughing because they're like, that's it. That's what that's what
we're supposed to celebrate, you doing the bare minimum of
an adult, Like this is it? Like you saving yourself
is the bare minimum? Now show me you you ladies
saving some men. I don't that's gonna happen. Well maybe

(01:03:01):
it will, but then but then they have to be
they have to they have to act like it is
some huge imposition and that that it makes the man lesser.
So uh, let me let me qualify you. You save men,

(01:03:22):
and you act like it is your it is your
honor to serve. You act with gratitude because the men
have your back too. And uh, and you don't you
don't belittle men? That that would be, that would be
the new that would be That would.

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
Be actually revolutionary, don't you think, like just just to
be in being creative and revolutionary, just to be a
member of the team, you know, and not stick it
to the man.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
And that would actually demonstrate that the idea of men
and women be you know, having each other's back and
having the capability of doing so. That would actually be
real equality. All right, all right?

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Fair part the heavy handedness also because the show runners
favored the female characters but wanted to keep calling this
an adaptation, the men needed to be on screen for
at least a while, but they had nothing to do,
so they were boring. A good portion of the show
features people who have little to no reason to be there,
so you have a terrible viewing experience where you wonder

(01:04:31):
who is this Matt guy? And why is anybody letting
this jerk hang around since he's completely useless. Oh, second
season is almost over. I guess we gotta let him
toot this hideous looking horn. Book says, we have to whatever.
Book Matt is mischievous, impulsive, and hilarious, but we'll always
have your back. Show Matt is just there. I can

(01:04:51):
actually summarize Bookmatt for you, really really quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Oh here we go. Okay, you won't catch me doing that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:58):
I just want to gamble. I'm no bloody hero, Matt exclaimed,
while proceeding to do the most heroic thing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
It's just that again and again. But if anything happened
to him, I would kill everyone in this room and
then myself.

Speaker 5 (01:05:10):
The cramped nature of this adaptation leaves no room for
setup or motivations to unforge.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Yeah, so how do you adapt a story where the
author was trying to give like, I guess he has
like a cast of characters and he wants them all
to have an appeal. I didn't read the book, so
I don't know if he succeeded, but I assume he
did because it's a very popular book series amongst people
who like to read fantasy. So he has all these

(01:05:38):
characters and he gave them all stuff to do. I
look at like this Lord of the Rings, because I
know Lord of the Rings. Okay, so you're you're you're
doing Lord of the Rings, and you got like you
have to give screen time to and story time and
moments to shine for Frodo and Sam and Aragorn and
Legalis and Gimli and Mary and Pippin' and Gandolf. Right,

(01:06:01):
and that's just the good guys. You also got to
give time for you know, Saramon and the Orcs and
the goblins, and you know, you gotta give time to
tree Beard. You gotta give time to the ring Raths,
and you give them all their their things. They had
their own, you know, the things that they do that
are very impactful on the story. And if you do

(01:06:22):
like this kind of adaptation, then what they're gonna do
is they're gonna give as much time as possible to
Galadriel and Rowin and Aoin, and the male character is
just gonna be there like they're gonna do what they
have to do, Like, oh, well, I guess Gandalf does,
you know, throw himself at the ball rog at one point,

(01:06:42):
so we'll just do that really quick. But most of
the time he's doing nothing because we can't have the
men outshine the women at any point ever in the story, right,
even if the story is about men, so and the
women had to do a bunch of stuff that the
men didn't do or they base replaced them in some way,
except for like the extremely important things. I think I

(01:07:04):
may be exaggerating, but I think that's what he's trying
to say. Yes about this character in the story, Well,
when you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Write through the intersectional lens, you really only have two characters,
and honestly, you just really have one, and that is
the oppressor and the oppressed. And the oppressed always have
to have moments of overcoming their oppression and proving that
the the the the perception of the oppressor wrong. And

(01:07:35):
you'll you'll see if you watch I'm guessing no, I
haven't seen the TV show yet, but I'm guessing most
character interactions devolve into that, So some relationship between the
oppressed and the oppressor. And because women are the oppressed,
they're going to have scenes of sticking it to the man,

(01:07:56):
being better than the man, overcoming the man, finding out
that they were they were perfect all along because the
man says that they you know, they have to actually
achieve something, to achieve something, you know, that kind of thing.
So everything is going in every situation, every character interaction
will fall down to that. And you can't have teamwork

(01:08:17):
in that context because teamwork is between equals, not the
moral morally superior in the morally inferior. Incidentally, the morally
superior in this in the in the intersectional caste system
is people with claims to pass depression current depression. You
know that that's not a that's not that you can't

(01:08:38):
claim that. I don't know when it starts and stops,
but it's always past depression, not not current disenfranchisement or disadvantage. Yeah,
and also you can't actually question their interpretation of past
depression in any capacity either. So it's basically just a
moral cast higher, a moral hierarchy based on arbitrary factors

(01:09:00):
by a bunch of white female academics in the seventies.
It doesn't matter that they're white and female. Probably matters
more that they're female. I'm just saying that that's what
they were. So it's it's like they just decided, Okay,
we're going to put ourselves on top, right, everybody else
is gonna below us. Uh, except for maybe minorities, but

(01:09:21):
only if they're female, and only if they buy, only
if they agree with us completely. So no Black Christian women,
they're they're actually the oppressors too. And uh, and so
that this is this is the cast system that we're
going to have and by society, and we're gonna teach
it everywhere, and everybody's gonna agree to us, agree with us.
And that's the way that we're going to go forward.
And and lo and behold. That's what it was. So

(01:09:44):
this cast system breaks every when you write from the perspective,
this cast system, every interaction breaks down to oppressed an oppressor.
It's completely arbitrary in a lot of ways. But uh,
but you have to just basically look at the chart, right,
is this person an oppressor relative to this person? Well,
these are the actions that the oppressed will take in

(01:10:06):
order to overcome their oppression, stick it to the man,
et cetera. And these are the actions that the oppressor
needs to take. Submission, sacrifice, abjuration like groveling, you know,
these kinds of things. And that's the way that the
story will proceed. No teamwork, no individuals shining based on

(01:10:27):
their individual merit, because individuals don't exist. There are no people.
There is only the interaction between oppressed oppression, the interaction
between oppressed and oppressor. That's it. It is the most

(01:10:48):
fucked up thing and that's why it creates fucked up
non art. And of course this is again just an
excuse for profound laziness. All right, let's bloke.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
I'm gonna jump ahead to the male female themes here
because we're yeah, it's two thirty, so yeah, we're getting
we're running out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Of I've never seen someone try to turn themselves in
and Phil she shut me down last year and told
me she was a dark frind. You're not fun when
you're waiting to.

Speaker 5 (01:11:18):
Die, and their relationship. It also means nothing if you
were bored while watching these scenes. This is why he
has no internal struggle. He's merely trudging through the plot
delivering raspy, breathy lines for drama because this actor can't act.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
That's it. I did contraft from Bonnhunt and Fun. Look.

Speaker 5 (01:11:41):
There are a ton of book examples of that male
female dynamic, but those two in particular are my favorite.
They offer some of the best exploration of our different
communication styles, our aspirations and presuppositions about the world, and
the show touched on none of it. One of those
themes is the idea of respect towards women. Paren has

(01:12:04):
the more traditional view that I think many of you
guys likely share. Like, your wife is special, you treat
her special. You don't raise your voice to her. That's disrespectful.
But fail comes from a culture where you respect your
wife enough to be tough with her, because it tells
her that you know she's tough enough to handle it.
Not only is this very thought provoking, it also makes

(01:12:26):
the pair interesting to read about. Their whole relationship is
about the meaning of respect and leadership and submission and balance,
and it's a roller coaster. Their TV versions only just
met in this season, but there wasn't even a hint
of a foundation for any of that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
We missed out on.

Speaker 5 (01:12:43):
Even more Fun and comedic male female themes because of
the absence of that character. Gaul he's a male Aeel
and Paren's Burrow to the end. The Iel have very
different customs from the other characters, and the books had
plenty of comedy when golf.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
So they're getting rid of the bros. Apparently there was
a bro in the story and he's not in there.
If you don't have a bro in your story, I
don't want to read it like you. Bros are, like said,
they're centrally important. I think a bro character is more
important than a love interest female character, for sure, Like
for sure, Big Trouble, Little China has a bro in

(01:13:19):
it all right, Gracie Law, who's the female character. They
don't hook up till the very end, and he doesn't
even Kurt Russell leaves her, leaves her hanging at the end,
which is amazing. There has to be a bro. I
don't know what you can I'm just saying, like you
can't get like all shown in anime, like all of it. Okay,
that's really popular. Boys, there's a bro. There's at least

(01:13:42):
one bro character, and that usually is a better character
than the main character, or at least a more of
a favorite. The bros are crucial. You have to have
a bro in your story.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
Yeah, I would point out that this is still taking
a big step back. This is still very traditional. It's
basically just men being like, well, how do I how
do I do give what my woman wants?

Speaker 6 (01:14:07):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Well, you know it's fine, like you can have that.
It just seems like it's in a conversation is never
about well, what how do women express respect to men?
How do women support men? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay,
so why don't we move on to the next one.
Let's do the degeneracy, all.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
Right, because we're gonna change to this video the absolute
degeneracy of modern writing. So I'll plead the intro of
this one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
I'm gonna just wash everything because the voidcat has left
her allergens behind. I've given her a break in the
other room because she's she's she's going to She's not
destroying the technical like the machines. She's destroying me, guys.
She's changed her attack pattern, her attack vector. But I'll

(01:15:04):
be right back. I'm listening.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
I'm just okay displaying it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:09):
When I started this channel, it was largely because I
had been noticing a broad decline in storytelling in general
and literature in particular, as decline that began a lot
longer ago than most people think. And my aim has
always been to help in so far as I am able,
to remind writers of the true fundamentals of storytelling and
to hopefully elevate their craft into something that isn't beholden

(01:15:32):
to current market trends, nor controlled by the fleeting tastes
of book talk or Bookstagram or whatever. However, I've been
noticing that there are a lot more aspects that have
been contributing to the decline of literature besides just a
lack of understanding regarding the fundamentals. Today, I would like
to focus on one of the most glaring issues plaguing
modern publishing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
Smart all right, so jump ahead to women, the role
of women in literature.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Can I just point something out? I want to point
this out really quickly. This is to all of my
uh you know, fan fic and archive of our own
uh Dare I say, sisters, how are you going to
create fanfic of original properties if those original properties are
no longer being made?

Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
How do you create smut of smut.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Yeah right, it's like it's like AI art. Yeah, it's
it's going to start to uh, it's becoming self referential.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
Yes, it's in its horrible Yeah, Okay, let's keep going. Okay,
make do all right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
To start with, let's just push aside any conversation about taste.
This is not going to be a video about what
I like or don't like to read. What I am
offering you in this video is not my opinion or
my reading preference. It is facts. And the first thing
we need to establish is that all this so called
romance fiction and most, if not all, of the women's
literature out there, is a not women's literature. It's as

(01:17:08):
a woman.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
She she mouthed porn. Okay, so she's trying not to
get her channel demonetized. We are not monetizing our content.
So porn, porn, porn, porn, porn, that's what she's saying.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Okay, And the most common defense I hear, although we
get to boosted from these words, probably well maybe we
get to boosted because we just defend people. People are like,
listen to like two minutes of us, and they're like, oh,
you guys, what are these mouth noises? You're making.

Speaker 5 (01:17:40):
Ven.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
It's so offensive, it's making me giving the hurdie feely.
Somebody do something about it. Wow. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
For romance fiction, especially the romance fiction that is so
prevalent today, is that it is literature for women. Whenever
anyone tries to express some concern about these genres or
the nature of their content, that person is immediately condemned
for being anti woman or anti women's literature. The idea
being that these types of books are not just popular
among women, but that they define womanhood, and to be

(01:18:16):
opposed to them in any way is to be opposed
to women.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
Well you didn't You never wanted to get fucked by
a minotaur? How were you an anti woman? There was
the book going around we'll cover I saw it on
X and it was like some like, I don't know.
It's a romanticy book obviously of like minotaurs imprisoning women
and making them into their breed slaves. And I was like,

(01:18:41):
does anybody get rescued? Like does you know? And everyone's
sharing around. I remember Stefan Malnu was one of them,
and he was like, please tell me this isn't something
that actually exists. If you're like, oh, yes, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
We're potentially going to read the first chapter at the
convention the Writer's Retreat with Mike. Oh you know about Yes,
we've had it as a request.

Speaker 1 (01:19:04):
Oh my god, yes, good luck, Alison. I don't I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
It's uh again, I will, I will look at it
from the point of view of artistic merit.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
And we got x We got x chat.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Did you know that x chat?

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
Yeah? Like that, like Twitter have the Twitter chat and
people commenting. Samuel Foreman homosexual relationships were into that but
never featured. The TV series changed both of these points. Yeah,
well they weren't. But the show made the thing because,
like the sex in the books existed, but it wasn't
like something they spent a lot of time on. But
the show spent a lot more time on it because yeah,

(01:19:49):
because watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
It is the pain. It's the woman's porn version of
world of work of world, way all of time. That's it. Yeah,
it's just it's But But the thing is that while
you have to get the men's porn version of something
you know from from your local sticky floored video rental,
you can get the women's version of porn on any

(01:20:14):
mainstream streaming service, because that because we don't recognize that
women's sexuality should be contained. It's not an infinite good.
I have no idea why voidcat is like absolutely determined
two to interrupt the stream? Why are you doing this

(01:20:37):
like you are? You are absolutely determined to do this?
And I I can't tell you why. She's just this
one of those days. Maybe it's a full move.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
Jojo is chilling over here, Yeah, Jojo is such.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Is the goodest of good boys, a vector of care.

Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
Of me right now, all right, he's doing something very important.
He's like sleeping. Let's uh, let's keep going.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Such as myself, who are critical of these books, are
often said to be suffering from internalized misogyny. The reality
about all this is that it isn't a question of
women versus anti women, or even women versus man. The
yousue here is probably one of the oldest ones in existence.

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
Well, let's let's let her finish your thought that I'm
gonna all right, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
It's the normalization of explicit adult entertainment. Whether you are
trying to do that is pretty irrelevant, because the number
one reasons.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
One has are men women trying to normalize adult entertainment.
Are men really trying to do that? I mean, aside
from Game of Thrones, but that was like an HBO.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
But is this I didn't really think that Game of
Thrones was titillating though, Yeah, I was sort of gross.
It was just kind of exploitative, like not something exploited,
but it was something kind of like you could just
tell the people who made it were like, look at us,
we're so edgy. This isn't this isn't your dad's Lord
of the Rings. This is edgier an adult. Look at

(01:22:11):
the penis and I'm just like, but where are the
dragons and the sword fights? Oh? There are none because
this story just drags on forever.

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
That's House of Dragon. Well there are none because technically
there weren't any dragons really in that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
But okay, but I mean, like the fantasy stuff that
was cool, Like most of the fantasy stuff I watching
significantly And while the world looked like a fantasy world,
and I had all of the you know, the costumes
and the locations and there was a map and the
cool intro, but when it came down to actually seeing
like some shit happen, most of it was done off

(01:22:46):
screen or it was people reflecting on it. Hey, man,
I remember that time that oh boy charged the front
lines with the flaming sword, and I was like, Oh,
when is that gonna happen? It didn't, and I was like, no,
this isn't for me. This isn't for me, Like I
want to see the stuff. Don't tell me about it,
show it to me. But anyway, I think it was.
I think it was just like, it's too expensive to

(01:23:09):
shoot a battle scene, but let's show some boobs because
we can get that, Like that's easy, you know, and
they did. So it was it was all about the budget,
all right, anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
Let's go try to normalize this kind of you know,
explicit content is money. But I'm getting a little ahead
of myself. First of all, we need to establish this.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
I'm going to go anywhere else of this because I
think that her analysis is not completely accurate because we're
not seeing we're not really seeing the normalization of porn
for men. There's that. I don't think there's any effort
to start showing porn in for men in schools or
having it on the shelves of Walmart or any of that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
I don't think that anything we treat porn for men
and porn for women as completely different animals.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Now, you might argue that there are certain certain subset
of trans women who might be pushing their sexuality into
trying to normalize it in uh, you know, like in
educational contexts. But I'm not going to blame that on men.
I don't think that is the men are to blame
for that. So I don't think I don't think this

(01:24:27):
is this is what's happening on I don't think men
are trying to normalize this stuff. What's happening is specifically
women are trying to normalize it. And they're trying to
normalize it one because they want to because for whatever reason,
women think that having appropriate places for stuff is being
silenced and they have a big threat narrative that if

(01:24:51):
society is silencing them, then it's it is akin to
original sin or some crap. So women actually have the
tools to normalize their sexual interests, and these tools are
being used by, let's face it, a bunch of women
who are sexual predators and they are making this. Women
like this fall in line because they want to appear

(01:25:13):
to be a block. They want to appear to use
the oppression of women in order to inflict their sexual
behavior on others, like true fricking predators and the reason
and they want it. They need to silence this woman
because if it doesn't appear that this is something that
all women want, then it actually removes their tool, like

(01:25:38):
it lessens its effectiveness, that weapons effectiveness, because you know,
if it isn't seen as in the interests of all women,
then you can say, well, if it isn't in the
interests of all women, why do it? Right, It's not
really about women's oppression, Okay, So this is the dynamic
that's behind it. She is running a foul of being
forced to step to to fall in line by the loudest,

(01:26:03):
most narcissistic, most predatory female voices. And they want to
normalize their pornography everywhere because it's they get a thrill
out of it. That's what you know, That's what exhibitionists do.
They get a thrill out of shoving their they're junk
in your face, right, they get a thrill out of
breaking people's boundaries. And they're not just normalizing smut. Apparently

(01:26:28):
they've normalized sexual assault at their conventions. Because this has
been an internal problem with the romance genre. And once again,
another person, another bunch of men have been sexually assaulted,
and nothing is going to get done. Nothing is going
to get done some minor changes to the format, but

(01:26:50):
the people who put on the convention is still going
to continue to run those conventions because that's a non starter.
I mean, really, if you think about it, when a
man says no to a woman sexually and she says,
ha ha ha ha, I'm going to take what I
want anyway, that's really sticking it to the patriarchy, right,

(01:27:11):
So you know, enjoy like you are on this wild lady.
You are on this wild ride without getting off because
the loudest voices in the room, the loudest female voices
in the room, have decided that this is what they
want to do, and they are not going to listen
to you saying, hey, well I don't want actually smut

(01:27:32):
and everything. They're going to listen to that. They're just
going to do whatever they can to silence you. I
have been there, and I have been there for things
other than I don't really want smut in my fiction.
I've been there for Hey, can we can we bring
to bring male victims of sexual AsSalt domestic violence palaritiy
all of these things. Can we actually have a conversation

(01:27:53):
about them? And I got a sure, and then boot
like sure in public and then boot in private. So
you know, this is this is the way it is.
You are going. You are now a you are now
a nail that needs to be hammered down by the sisterhood.
Don't blame this on men, and don't say this is

(01:28:14):
a universal thing that oh I'm just putting Saxon down. No,
that's not a universal thing. All right, all right, very.

Speaker 3 (01:28:24):
Clearly, women's literature is not, you know, just some randomly
horny trend in the book industry. In that sense, outside
of a handful of odd entries here and there, women's
literature doesn't exist. Women haven't taken over the literary world.
A four letter word starting with P has taken over
the literary world.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Every other major nem about women are reading it, Yeah,
but women are the ones put in reading it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
You can say that if you want, women's literature doesn't exist, Well,
what are women reading? Looks like, that's their literature. I mean,
I know that they could do better than that, but
that's what's on offer, and it makes money. That's not
the fault of the people writing the books. That's the
fault of women for buying those books. Yeah, And then
like capitalism, it's like, well, no, that's it's out there,

(01:29:10):
like why are women drawn to that? Like that? Maybe
we should be talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:29:14):
That, yes, And also how the heck can you say this,
like women take over publishing, like women now are publishing
and then suddenly porn there's no but there's no correlation.
It's just porn taking over publishing. No, it is women

(01:29:35):
pushing porn that have taken over publishing women and the
porn is actually the least of it. It's all the
freaking toxic attitudes that they have towards men, like take
some responsibility here. Yeah, I know you personally as a woman,
don't like this and don't and you you prefer the

(01:29:55):
older female fiction when men were the publishing gatekeeper, The
older female fiction when men were the publishing gatekeepers, that
had merit like plot, proper characterization, a desire to create authenticity,
meaningful and resonant themes, good dialogue. All of that kind

(01:30:16):
of storytelling merit that existed in female authors when men
were the gatekeepers is now gone because women aren't gatekeeping
they're not. They're just pushing whatever they think can sell,
whatever is easiest to produce, whatever gets the most eyeballs
on a page, as simple as that. Like, I have

(01:30:39):
this discussion with my editor because I'm writing a independent
hopefully independent you know you guys know the Captive, an
independent fantasy book sort of like science fiction fantasy but religious,
and I don't shy away from like, uh, sex scenes. Okay.
My editor talked about this and said, you know this

(01:31:03):
will this will get women to read your book. This
kind of stuff will get women. And I'm not putting
it in. I just write it when it seems like
it's relevant, right, But she said specifically, this will not
only get women to read your book, but it will
also get them to invest in it so that you

(01:31:24):
can have all of this other complexity because I have
a lot of uh I know, I know I'm going
to get it. I got I got world building and
some interesting stuff going on with like parallel dimensions, but
not like a multiverse kind of thing. Sorry, Brian, I
know that you don't particularly like that kind of thing,

(01:31:44):
but you you were like the or maybe it was
just the MCU multiverse that is a problematic.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
I mean, I don't. I don't hate multiverses in it
in every context, but I think that they get they
become a lazy tool sometimes. But I mean, if you're
doing it, like it, and I'm sure it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
Okay, let me put it this way.

Speaker 1 (01:32:02):
I don't, I don't hate it's all.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
Okay. Let me put it succinctly. Women have taken over
the publishing industry, and women like written porn. This is
not the porn industry taking over the publishing industry, unless
you are just going to ignore the causal relationship here.

(01:32:26):
This porn didn't happen in everything didn't happen prior to
women taking over the publishing industry. It didn't happen when
the men were the gatekeepers. And yes, I've actually watched this.
I know she goes into like fiction writers who had
sexual content in their novels. I've read a lot of them.

(01:32:46):
It's not that, and usually there's a serious there's an
actual reason for it to be there. It's not this.
It is not this like a fiction writer putting sexual
content in his no like Ulysses, which is possibly the
most grating unreadable thing ever, But it's not like this.

(01:33:07):
It isn't this is this is sexual content to make
a point. This is the point is the sexual content,
and we have to face this. When women took over
the the publishing industry, it became porn. And again it's
not the porn taking over the publishing industry, it's women
then turning it into porn. And part of it is,

(01:33:31):
again we don't tell women your sexuality doesn't belong there,
because what's that that's silencing them. That's patriarchal imposition. That's uh,
that's uh, that's the worst thing you could do. And
it causes babies to spontaneously die and cats to get

(01:33:51):
cat poks. I don't know, you know, so anyway, let's
keep I just it's like, I'm averse to this women
of responsibility here, Okay, I get it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
In a bookseller, especially all those new romance bookshops have
now just become another kind of adult entertainment store. And no,
that's not a good thing. Now, I know what you
might be thinking. This is not triple X adult entertainment.
This is you are actually incorrect. For a man, average man,
I don't know, reading an explicit depiction of a sex
act might not really get the job done. Men typically

(01:34:27):
tend to gravitate towards seeing the act on the screen
in one form or another. Women have always, on average,
preferred to read it. Even if some do end up
hooked on the filmed version, the female mind has pretty
much the same reaction generally speaking, to the written version.
In fact, written erotic content tends to have even more
of an impact on the minds of women than filmed

(01:34:47):
arotic content. Why because men and women engage with media
in fundamentally different ways. When it comes to adult entertainment,
You're simple, straightforward to people, banging video isn't really going
to do much of anything for a woman, generally speaking.
There have been numerous studies done regarding female sexuality or
the differences between male and female arousal, and generally across

(01:35:08):
the board. They'll tell you that women require what is
sometimes called mental mapping to be sexually aroused. That is,
there needs to be more sorry and more opportunity for
her to feel empathy. That's just how it is for
a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:35:21):
Uh, I think it's actually more controlling than that. It's
more opportunity to have a male character that embodies the
precise emotional makeup and mental makeup and success qualities that
she desires. I don't think that's really empathy. Certainly, not

(01:35:43):
empathy towards the male character, because he's just a cipher.
Maybe empathy towards the female character. Although when I read romance,
I couldn't stand a lot of the female characters. I
tended towards us, you know, my niche was more. Oh,
I guess it would have been more like having your

(01:36:04):
more bromance, except with men and women, if that makes sense.
Like you, well, one of the ones that I really
liked was this this female character who was she was
in a like a supposedly patriarchal culture, but she acknowledged
that she could get away with more because of that,
And she ended up meeting up with a captive scientist

(01:36:26):
who had been subject to a lobotomy of some court
kind in order to keep him. He was imprisoned, but
he was still very intelligent. They wanted to work on
and she was also a scientist, and she ended up
working with him and they developed a relationship, and then
she sort of realized the full extent of his captivity
and she went out of her way to try to

(01:36:49):
save him from that situation. And it was actually a
pretty harrowing story of her like dragging him out of this,
like getting him to escape and then keeping him in
like anonymity whilst she's trying to get him out of
away from these people, and I mean he's doing he's

(01:37:10):
trying to help too, but he's like in a situation
where because of the what's been done to his mind,
he's not fully aware. And at the end, what she
gets from like months and months and months of dodging
the authorities and trying to find the ability to support

(01:37:30):
them and all of this other stuff is that she
finally gets him to a rehabilitation home. He doesn't remember her,
so they have to reconstruct potentially, like she can't necessarily
expect they're going to have a romance after this, but
they have to reconstruct this or she has the ability
that he's safe now that maybe they can have a

(01:37:50):
friendship or maybe a romance or something. But everything has
been erased. And it was actually pretty pretty cool story,
very very compelling, But I would I would call that
more on the edge of romance than romance, because you
could have just replaced the woman with a man trying

(01:38:10):
to save another dude that was his friend, right, and
a lot of the emotional beats would have been the same,
but it was a romance, so I mean, there's there's
some differences. Like a man. She explicitly says a lot
of the stuff that she gets away with she wouldn't
have if she was a man, and she knew that
to her advantage. And then she's also helped. This was

(01:38:32):
really interesting. This is the first romance where where secondary
male characters are not like lascivious tentacle monsters trying to
touch the oh you're the female character, but they were
actually helping her and him to get out of this situation.
So I was that was it. That's the kind of
thing that I really liked, not the usual romance. Fair

(01:38:56):
but but anyway, I know that you're looking at the time,
so let's let's finish this up. Is there anything else,
like a main point that you feel like she made?

Speaker 1 (01:39:09):
Well, I can go to statistics on female authors and readers.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
How about that made a point in the vertical chat
that I think it might be worth bringing up only
fans then this is absolutely right. OnlyFans was not porn
until women got in it and made it porn, but
made it synonymous with porn. It used to be just
if you had something that you could do, you could

(01:39:35):
you had a platform to present it to your fans.
Wasn't explicitly porn So I mean, you said, you might
say that porn took over, but it always seems like
the women go first and then the porn comes.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
Anyway, then the porn comes.

Speaker 2 (01:40:01):
I guess that could be considered sort of a very
very weak pun.

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
Okay plan, this.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Of women taking over literature. I definitely see the point,
but I was curious if that was true, so I
took to the internet. The percentage of female authors as
of twenty nineteen, which was the most recent number I
could find any further statistics were likely behind this mother
of all paygates, was fifty point five percent, which was
also fairly steady from twenty ten to twenty nineteen. The

(01:40:31):
percentage of female editors as of twenty twenty one was
sixty seven percent. Funnily enough, that's not that big of
an increase from twenty ten, when the number was sixty
four percent. The percentage of female literary agents as a
twenty twenty one was fifty eight percent, which is actually
a decline from twenty ten, when the number was sixty
four percent. So that's people. Now, what about the books

(01:40:51):
that are actually being read. Let's look at the New
York Times bestseller list for the last four and a
half years. In twenty twenty, out of thirty four best
selling authors, sixteen were women. In twenty twenty one, twenty
one out of thirty seven were women. In twenty twenty two,
twelve out of twenty two were women. In twenty twenty three,
eleven out of twenty four, in twenty twenty four, seventeen
out of thirty two, and so far in twenty twenty five,

(01:41:12):
it's been about eight out of thirteen. The point of
all these numbers is to say that statistically, women don't
dominate the literary world. That said, in many ways, the
numbers here don't quite represent their reality. No matter what
the numbers say for best sellers, if you actually look
at the list, you can see that romance, especially smutty
romance and romanticy dominate huge blocks of the calendar, and

(01:41:35):
a lot of these female writers have female agents, and
obviously readers of these books will be predominantly female.

Speaker 2 (01:41:41):
Okay, just anoping career, there are still the same male
authors that dominate the best sellers. So Stephen King, Brandon Sanderson,
trying to think of there's probably more, but I can't
think of them off.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
The tiah Like the same men that were being the
charts before are still Yeah, they say, men.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
There's topping the charts like twenty years ago or still
topping the charts, right, So you're not going like they're
basically almost independents now, they're independent of the publishing industry.
So to look at that and say, oh, well, look
at these men, no, they.

Speaker 1 (01:42:19):
Are what she's what she's trying to say, is not
she's saying that the number of women editors, writers and
so on hasn't changed much. But when you look at
what women are reading, then most of the top books
being read by women are those smutty pornographic novels that

(01:42:43):
are written edited and well, I forget the other thing,
like written and edited by women primarily. So even though
there are, yes, you know, there are still male writers
as well, and it looks like it's more or less
the same. Like there it's so the forty eight to
fifty two, I mean, that's that's sort of like basically

(01:43:03):
a split. But what it's what matters is what are
women reading and what are men reading. That's what's different, right,
Women are reading the smut. Men are reading a variety
of things, horror, suspense, you know, women are reading true
crime too. But if you can like make both of
those things fit together, then yeah, that'll probably be even better.

(01:43:24):
So but I think that ultimately it's what women are
reading more than sort of trying to say something about
like the balance.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
So yeah, and what women are reading is determining what's
being published. I'm sorry, Like I go to a bookstore
now and it's wall to wall romanticy. That isn't because
of men, it's because of women. And you can look
at the stats of and the other thing is that
a lot of those those agents and publishers, it's declining

(01:44:00):
and they are representing again that old guard of men.
What's going to happen when these men die off, Like
who are they going to be replaced with? There's no
young men becoming these big stars. So I mean, right
now you can say, well, look at these men, they
represent half of the published books. Yeah, but they are

(01:44:23):
in a way completely separate from the publishing industry at
this point. They're so big that they exist independently in
a way, Like if Brandon Sanderson, and I think he
has done this, said, you know what, I'm not even
going to publish through the publishing industry. Nothing would change
for him. You know, if Stephen King did that, nothing
would change for him. Any of the other big male

(01:44:43):
names did that, nothing would change for them, because they've
built such a platform for themselves that they are completely independent.
So saying that oh, they represent they don't. They represent
nothing in the publishing industry at this point. Like that's
what I'm trying to get at, Brian, Yeah, yeah, the
the publishing industry doesn't. They exist independent of it, right, So,

(01:45:10):
and the publishing houses that represent them in a way,
because they have these big names, exist independent of the
upcoming pressures which are pushed by the female audience. Okay,
so the rising stars, the ones that we're going to
see in another ten years, are going to be the

(01:45:31):
women writing smut. And as these men die off, the
numbers of men on the best selling list is going
to be it's going to go down to like what
you know, it's going to progressively decline, and the entire
they again, they're not really part of the publishing industry.
So the publishing industry has already taken over been completely

(01:45:53):
saturated with smut from the female that the female audience
wants and what the publishing publishing industry is encouraging. So
what they're planting in their little fields of writers is
more smut. And once those big names, the big male names,
die off, it's going to all be it. It's gonna

(01:46:14):
like there's not going to be anything but smut because
the publishing industry is that's all. It's that's all it's
planting as female authors that do this right, yep, defeat
a female audience and to ignore the fact that this
is a female audience that's pushing it, and that when

(01:46:35):
the gatekeeper cease to be male and predominantly male, this
is what happened. I don't know why you need to
do it, but just just just blame women. When you
get on the other side of the blame women chasm,
it's so much more relaxing. It's like I don't have
to do all of these gymnastics to say women aren't

(01:46:55):
to blame. I can just blame them. I haven't imploded,
I blame women. Look, I haven't imploded. I haven't spontaneously combusted,
I haven't evaporated, like I.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
Still exist lightning has not struck you down.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Yeah, oh jeez, I guess they aren't. God, I haven't
been turned into a pillar of salt.

Speaker 1 (01:47:22):
Okay, all right, sorry, but I'm my time's up, all right, Yes, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (01:47:29):
I think that's good enough. I mean, maybe I'm misrepresented.
I remember watching this and being irritated by this analysis.
Sometimes I think that she's on point. Sometimes I think
she just misses it. But uh so, if I've misrepresented her,
please watch the original. Don't just take my word for it.
And uh yeah, okay, So again, we looks like Brian's

(01:47:53):
gotta go because he's got a hard deadline. So sorry,
that's okay. It's not your fault. It's sort of my
fault for wittering and then having all this other crap.
That's Oh, just a reminder. We are doing our meetup
September thirteenth. That's next week in a week, which is
what a week means, right, So it's gonna be in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
If you're interested, go to feed the feed The Badger

(01:48:15):
Slash Events has all the information except not making the
venue public. If you are interested in coming, you do
have to RSVP at Badger at feed the Badger dot
com which is also at that location. And once again,
big thank you to Janice for putting in one k
pretty pretty crap, pretty great. And also a big thanks

(01:48:39):
to everybody else who's supported you'll Clee recently. Richard also
helps us out. And thank you to Richard for these suggestions.
They've been very different. I'll say that they're different. It's
like we're looking at the normy mind today rather than
the screeching feminist harpy mind. And if you have any
anything you want to send us, you want to send

(01:49:00):
us a tip, you can send a message with that
tip at feed Thebadger dot com slash just the tip.
Let's feed the Badger dot com slash just the tip,
and I will hand this back to Brian.

Speaker 1 (01:49:09):
All right, well, thank you so much. If you guys
liked this video, please hit like subscribe if you're not
already subscribed to the belfltifications, leave us a comment. Let
us know when you guys think about what we discussed
on the show today. Have you read The Wheel of Time?
Do you have any thoughts on this? Have you watched
the show? How do you think they compare? Let us know,

(01:49:29):
because I'm not gonna watch it, but i'd be curious
about Please please share this video because sharing is caring.
Thank you guys so much for coming on today's episode
of Maintaining Frame, and I'll talk to you guys in
the next