September 4, 2025 • 55 mins
In our second look at Antoine Fuqua's work, we explore the gritty world of "Training Day," the film that redefined cop dramas. Join us as we discuss Denzel Washington's Oscar-winning role, Ethan Hawke's overlooked performance, and the film's exploration of corruption, morality, and the Faustian bargains that define its characters. Discover why this cultural touchstone continues to resonate and hear our thoughts on its unforgettable scenes and legacy.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back to House Lights, the second entry in fact
in the House of Fuquah. We are examining this week
Training Day, two thousand and one's very impactful film with
Denzel Washington and Ethan Hawke to explore this tale of
police corruption on the LAPD.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I will be your guide.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You can call me Alonso, that's my nickname for this episode,
and we'll be joined along with our rookie ride along
Tristan Riddell and our drug lord in a Bathrobe, Darren Moser. So, gentlemen,
welcome to our discussion about Training Day. And this is
a very, very culturally impactful This is a movie that
(01:02):
absolutely has had an outsized footprint over time. It makes
constant reference and all sorts of things. Everybody eventually saw it.
We'll get to the box office later. But of course
our traditional question is there are two traditional questions then, Tristan,
I'll give them to you first, because the second question,
it's just for you, is uh, where did you see it?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
When? Did you see it for the first time?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And was it even technically possible for your father to
have a Redell cut of Training Day?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's funny that you asked that because I saw this
movie when it came out on video when I was
because early two thousand's is when I was in high
school and I was absolutely gobbling everything up that I
possibly could. I was watching anything and everything, and I
you know, wore out my membership card to Blockbuster. I
(01:54):
was just renting, you know, stacks of movies every weekend.
And this as soon and His Training Day came out
on video. I got it because I was not able
to go see it in the theater and I was
I just was in awe of it.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
I was blown away.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
It felt so raw and real and I know this,
this is this is gonna make me sound like a
reviewer from from the two thousands, but it's in your face.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
You know, it's you know, it's got a pulse. It's
got its finger on the pulse of what's happening in
Los Angeles. Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And Denzel was electric and Ethan Hawk never gets enough
credit for it. But yeah, I watched it and I
immediately bought it, like I rented it and then I
bought it, and I loved it so much that I
was like, Dad, you have to watch this with me.
And I I don't know why I was so brave
or brazen. I don't know which way you want to
which one, which one you want to call it. But
(02:54):
because my dad, my dad's fine with violence, he's fine
with language. He can't stand and vulgarity. He just absolutely
cannot stand vulgarity. And they're all the distinction. Draw the
distinction for people at home. Oh okay, like language.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And vulgarity and stuff like that, because so like plump
that stuff together.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Okay, Well, I'm glad that you asked, because like, you know,
language would be okay. So like if you're doing, like
you turn on the TV and it has the you know,
like it has the rating on the top top left
of the screen and it says language and suggestive dialogue.
Language is the actual words like damn and S word,
F word, you know, calling someone a bastard or something
(03:35):
like that like that, like individual words like that's language.
Suggestive dialogue kind of goes into the vulgarity character like
I mean category, like when he's talking about you know,
how he you know, how ETHANHOWK sleeps with his wife
or like if he slept with his if he had
sex with his training officer, like the way that he
talks about it, or the way that he talks about
(03:56):
other people, like where he degrades them or where he
puts them down, or he tries to dominate them, and
things like that. And like, though those kind of instances,
that kind of dialogue, my dad can't stand that. He
has no use for it, no use for it. But
I felt like this movie, even though it contained that,
it had enough value to set the scene. It's kind
(04:19):
of like when you set a cop drama in Boston,
you know you're gonna have like they use the effort
like a comma. Like if you were to make The
Departed and it was a PG rating or a PG
thirteen rating for language, it just wouldn't be authentic in
any way, shape or form. And so when you when
you're dealing with these kind of people, you have to
have this kind of talk. And so probably probably felt
(04:42):
like that gave it, gave it a pass, and I'll
always remember that. My dad, I think, was most fascinated
with the scene where Denzel tells Ethan Hawk to smoke
the pipe mm hm and he's in the middle of
the intersection. My dad loved that scene. He thought it
was absolutely crazy, and the loved how when the guy's
honking his horn at Denzel and Denzel just pulls a
(05:03):
gun on him, and the guy in the car he
doesn't get scared. He doesn't, you know, like get out
of his car. He just kind of smiles, puts his
hands up and he's like, okay, right, yes, like yes,
it's yes, it's Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
It's not the first time that's happened to him. Yeah,
he's had a gun pulled on him before, he knows what.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So that was the first and last time that my
dad watched it, and I don't remember him being angry,
but I also don't remember him saying that like, oh
my god, that was amazing.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
So there and that's where it lands, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So, Darren, you're obviously much more comfortable with vulgarity than
Tristan's dad was. And so what take us through the
first time you saw this? Like, did you see this
because of the reputation? Was it the marketing? Like what
was it that made you want to see Training Day
the first time?
Speaker 6 (05:46):
So I was unsure.
Speaker 7 (05:49):
I couldn't recall if i'd seen this because it felt
like the kind of film I would have seen with
my you know, film studies you know, friends in college.
But upon rewatching it, I nothing was recognizable. So I
think this was my first time really sitting down and
watching it for all intensive purposes. So yeah, it was Uh,
(06:11):
I watched it on the biggest screen. I could definitely
made sure the kids weren't gonna come in and but yeah,
so I think what I had to do was because
I often, I think, mentally mix this up with Man
on Fire. So I had to mentally be like, no,
this is this movie and this is how things are going.
(06:34):
So it was fun because it was a twist and
turns of like this guy, you know, either not being
placed in this situation where you know, I mean, it's
just you could see immediately why it's referenced, why it's
you know, studied, because these two characters are going through
(06:56):
something that it's not relatable. I don't watch it going. Yeah,
when I had my first day on the job, I really,
you know, wasn't sure if I was gonna get in,
except when I had to smoke the pipe that my
boss handed me. No, that is not relatable. But it's
it's like when you watch like a military movie and
(07:16):
you're not in the military or any other movie where
it's something almost bording on fantastical. The situation is fantastical
where you're like, what's he gonna do? And that's the hook,
not the not relatability, but more of I don't know
how I would get out of it, but I want
this character to get out of it, but I don't
see a way out of it.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
And that's that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
See, it's so interesting because I saw this on video. Now,
just for context, so everybody understands, this movie came out
October fifth of two thousand and one, so it came
out in the aftermath of a very significant world event
that affected people in.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
A very very specific way.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
The film still managed to double its budget plus a little,
so that's pretty good all things being considered. There is
always going to be a part of me that entertains
the idea that this movie would have done even better
numbers had the situation been different. Now, one hundred and
four or one hundred five million is pretty decent by
(08:25):
two thousand and one standards, but it's not Gangbusters, so
I would have imagined in a different environment. Because once
this found its audience on video, much like the original Terminator,
there was an audience for it and so I just
I think that that's why the movie persists in a
(08:47):
lot of ways. And I think looking at it now
because it's been a long time since I've seen it,
and I want to put this out there, you know, Darren,
I'll throw it back to you first. But you say, oh,
I want this character to find his way out of it,
and then you reference that very well done scene we
all have now of smoke the pipe. If you want
to be in, you got to smoke the pipe. You
got to prove that you're part of this. And maybe
(09:09):
it's just age, But now I look at it and
I see that Faucian bargain. I mean, I think it's
easier to just say I'm getting out of the car
and leaving because my career is not who cares what
the future is? And I think that's the benefit of age.
I think Evan hawks, he's a young rookie, wanted to
get in. That's that's a dilemma for a young age.
(09:32):
That's not a dilemma for somebody who's no longer that young.
Speaker 7 (09:37):
Well, he's he's targeted, really, and that's what's most interesting
about watching this, or rewatching this, is seeing, you know,
Denzel I don't want to just call him Denzel the
entire time, a.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Lot of Alonzo.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
You know he no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Denzel's one of those guys, one of those actress where
you can just call him Denzel for the rest of
the conversation.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
You know who we're talking about.
Speaker 7 (10:01):
But but he he has this guy's number from the
moment he gets in the car, like everything is planned.
And I love the reveal later of oh that wasn't
just a test of oh yeah, if the drug dealer
offers you something and you bock at it, you're gonna
get caught. It's like, no, now, I'm holding this over you,
(10:21):
so you're gonna comply and become part of my team.
And it's just the layers that are already in place.
The only thing that you know that Jake does off
script is save the girl in the alley, and that's
what saves him, because you know, Alonso wasn't gonna stop.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
He was just like, well whatever, he didn't see it.
He was on as well.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
The next thing.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
That's what that's what's really interesting is that if you try,
if you watch this movie a couple of times, you
start to understand that the only reason why Jake is
still alive is because he never listens to Alonso, where like, okay,
so like he jumped out of the car and saved
that girl, you know, when a Lonzo told him not to,
(11:04):
and that's what saved him in the bathtub, he you know,
like Alonzo tells him never go into this neighborhood alone,
and at the end of the movie, he goes into
that neighborhood alone to find Alonzo. And I know that
there's one other thing that I can't think of right now.
I should have wrote it down, but there was one
other time that it was just it was another area
(11:26):
where you know, like we're presented with Alonso, who at
first it's like, oh, this is the this is the
wise old stage. This is the guy who's been through it.
You know, he's seen a thing or two. He's he's grizzled,
he's you know, like he's jaded, and he knows what
the streets. This is the way the world is. This
(11:47):
is this is the way that the streets work. And
so you want to pay attention to him and you
want to listen to him, and then you start to
realize like, holy crap, no, this I feel like Fuquah
and Air. David Air, who wrote it, is presenting Alonso.
And I'm not saying this lightly or even like, you know,
like I'm not trying to like cast us. This is
not a throwaway comment, but I feel like they're presenting
(12:08):
him as the devil. And yeah, yeah, I'm so glad
that you brought that up earlier, John the Faustian bargain.
It really feels like he is this satanic figure. And
I'm not saying like, oh, you know, he goes back
home and sacrifices babies and puts on horns. I'm saying
he is this this bashon of evil and of temptation,
(12:31):
where you know, like we see at the beginning, Ethan
Hawk's character has a lovely wife and a lovely little girl,
and all he wants to do is provide for them.
And right off the bat you realize that from a
character of perspective, he is all that's all they wants
to do. He's like, he's like, yeah, those guys, you
see their houses, you know, you see how big their
houses are. You know, he doesn't want a big house
(12:53):
just to have a big house. He wants to provide
for his family. And then early on. He's just like,
let's not talk about my family. Okay, don't talk my
white wife. Don't talk my family. That's a sensitive subject.
But the thing is, Denzel Alonso, excuse me, is is presenting.
He's like, he's like, you know, like but just a
little bit of evil, just a little bit of evil,
and then you'll get what you need. I can make you.
(13:13):
I can make you a detective. I can make you
eighteen months.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Give me eighteen months, man, eighteen months. All you gotta
do is smoke the pipe. All you to do is
kill the guy. You know.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
It's just like it's this little little bit here and there,
here and there, and he keeps pushing it and pushing
it forward.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
All you got to do is kill the guy. And
he was a drug dealer, but.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Nobody he gave drugs to kids. Man, that he's a
terrible person.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
He deserved If it wasn't us that shot him, somebody
else was going to like that that.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's that that seductive sort of thing that doesn't really
boil over until I mean, Ethan Hawk really gets that
lesson in Uh, there is no loyalty.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Among the evil.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And I think I think if anything and this is
the one thing I want to bring out about the
way the movie goes is interest.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I'll throw this to you first.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Do you think that this is another one of those
movies akin to Fight Club, where people fall in love
with it and sometimes miss the meaning, the theme behind it,
what's actually happening. Do you think people fall so in
love with Denzel Washington's performance as Alonzo that they lose
sight of the fact that Alonzo is a terrible person
that you do not want. He has no wisdom, he
(14:24):
offers nothing. He is an empty shell. He's a husk
of a soul's He's an evil person. Do you think
people miss the point because Denzel Washington is so spot
on perfect in the role.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I think it's a I think it's very possible I have.
I'll give you one little tidbit. There was a I
had a boss, terrible person, and like the first day
on the job, he asked me.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
How I like, how well I know Spanish?
Speaker 4 (14:56):
And I said, you know, not very and I won't
I won't quote Alonzo here, but he quoted Alonzo like
verbatim what Alonzo said about Spanish and about everything like that,
And I was and I just kind of laughed to
myself and I said to him, I shouldn't have said
this because it was my first day. I was like, yeah,
I like training day too. But like he he was
(15:19):
probably one of those people who was like I would
love to emulate Alonzo. I think that it's it's interesting
because you know, like people you know, look at Fight
Club and like you said, that was a great example,
like they completely missed the message. And I mean also
with the boys on Prime, you know there are people
who completely missed the message and think that Homelander it's
(15:42):
somebody to strive like a personality to strive for. And
you're like, oh, people are that stupid? Like if you
asked me a couple of years ago, I probably would
have said no, no, no, nobody could miss that.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
But no, people are that stupid? Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Or Vic Mackey in The Shield, the charismatic villain no
matter how many times, or uh, you know what, Walt
in Breaking Bead he becomes an anti hero figure and
it's like, no, no, this guy's a piece of garbage.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
He's a terrible person.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
You don't quote Jesse, you don't want to idolize it.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Well to quote Jesse. He can't keep getting away with this,
you know, like exactly so.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Like that Hannibal Lecter. You know he's he's he's a smartie.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
He's a little wacky, but he knows the classics. He's
obviously very educated.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Great artist's not a hobby you know, right, You know
that he loves and he has votes himself to it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Like you said, Tristan, patron of the arts. You know,
he funds things. I mean, you know, you gotta look
at both sides here where of course, kidding everybody, please
don't take us out of context.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So Darren, I'll throw to you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Like Denzel has this electrifying performance, it wins him the Oscar.
He had a terrific line. I can't remember what the
specific line was, but he won the same night that
they gave an achievement ward. I think to Sydney Poitier,
and he had a very funny one line when he
walked up and received the award. The clips online, go
ahead and take it, take a look at it, guys.
(17:05):
But Darren, do you think that because of that electric performance,
do you think that over time Ethan Hawk's performance. Tristan
made reference to this earlier. Do you think that Ethan
Hawk's performance has been unfairly overlooked in terms of this film.
Speaker 6 (17:20):
I mean I can see that.
Speaker 7 (17:22):
I mean I'm not a ficionado as far as you know, Oh,
I know all the ins and outs of this film
and the message boards and all that. But no, even
on a first viewing it, there's not a lot of
air left in the room with him with Denzel giving
that performance. And while you know, Ethan's character is just
(17:45):
as important because you need him to talk to somebody,
He's not just gonna monologue his way through the entire movie.
You can't remove the character and he's the one being
put through all of this. But it is it is
not fifty even close. So yeah, I maybe on on
(18:06):
rewatch that'd be interesting to to really dive into Ethan's performance.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
But I even on the first viewing, towards the latter.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
Half, this is before he's kind of started to have
the stone face of you know, he's making the tough
decisions kind of right in the where he's in the middle.
He is giving quite a performance in someone who's trapped,
who is trapped in a car in a situation, and
it is starting to spiral even before the shotgun scene,
(18:40):
like and I'm not talking about the bathsle I'm talking
about like when he's asked to shoot, and because that's
really when the hammer drops a gun reference intended.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
But I love that when he when he takes the
shotgun and puts it back on Alonzo and he's like,
this is don't you pull.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
A gun on me.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There will not be a third like in that exact moment.
They needed to give him a win. They needed him
to have the upper hand in some fashion.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Yeah, no, that moment is amazing.
Speaker 7 (19:08):
And yeah, honestly it almost caught me off guard Ethan
being in this because on again not reading into it
now looking into it as I usually try to go
in cold for new movies, and I've seen Heathan a
ton and a lot of movies you've covered here on
House Lights. I was like, oh, here we go again,
and man, they are just the duo in this. Again,
(19:32):
not to emulate Alonzo at all, but yeah, so I
can see Denzel winning for sure, And yeah, I would echo,
like you said, John, give Ethan's viewing a second watch.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Because it is good. It's just there's not enough air left.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
In the room.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
And it's funny because Ethan Honk has more screen time
than Alonzo Yep in this movie. Yeah, and it begins
and ends with him at home. The beginning of the
movie is him leaving home. The end of the movie
is him coming back home, and we get it more
from his perspective than we do Denzel's. But if you
ask anybody, anybody on the street you know whose movie
(20:12):
is that, they'd say Denzel.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you know, you mentioned the beginning of the ending
of the framing he leaves home, he comes back from home,
which makes me immediately think to editing, because there is
an alternate ending to this movie, which I think, I
think whoever made the decision not to use it, that
that existed, which had the corrupt people that Alonso was
(20:35):
talking to at Jake's house. Oh, I'm so grateful they
did not use that ending, because that would have been
the most trite type of ending you could have possibly had.
It's I think it's way better the way that it ends,
but it of course brings us in.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
That's the thing, like he wouldn't have won.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Well, it's the way. It's the way it's set up.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Because I remember watching it on whatever release it was,
and the alternate left it with this question of oh
is he actually going to become a lonzo with the
money in his hand, like it was sort of like
supposed to be one of that thing, one of those
things where it's like, is he actually going to remain virtuous?
And I'm like, I really prefer the way that it
goes because that question is it's not as pointed at
(21:19):
the end. It leaves you with a lot to process.
But it's an editing decision, obviously, And so that brings
us to the editing, which we all love to talk about.
And Conrad buff who has edited a lot of movies,
including all Star classics like Terminator two. He was an
(21:40):
editor on Titanic and he's the editor here. And so
my question and Tristan, I love to throw the editing
questions to you first from a macro level, is it
good editing? Does it keep things moving for the two
hours and two minutes or was there any drag for you?
And is there any evidence of a scene micro instance
(22:01):
of the editing that you think was particularly fantastic.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I think macro some of the car scenes could have
been truncated a little bit, but I'm hesitant to say
that because some of the best things that happened happened
in the car. I think there was a I actually
I want to I want to take that back a
little bit. I want to dial that back. I think
(22:25):
that one thing that I love about movies, I love
when movies exist in a day. It's like, this is
the day we are witnessing one day in this person's life,
and it's a crazy day. I very much enjoy movies
like that. Ethan Hawk is known for them, and yeah, yes, yes,
with this, with this particular story, they really make you
(22:47):
feel that, they really make you feel like not a
lot of time is passing. And he picks him up.
He meets him at ten am, and then they go
way late into the night, and I think up until midnight.
I think midnight is when he's supposed to to meet
the Russians. But I think a victim of that type
of storytelling is that you see them go physically go everywhere.
(23:08):
And what I mean by that is they get into
the car, they talk, they get out of the car
and walk. They walk to the next location. They're at
the location, they exit that location, walk to the car,
get into the car, drive around a little bit, and
then they get to the next location, get out of
said car walk to the next location, you know, like
it shows every little bit of their day.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Of course it's truncated because we're got in a two
hour movie and it's you know, like twelve hours, twelve
hour time, fourteen hours, I guess I should say. And
so I think it's a it's more of a victim
of that, like if we could truncate some of the
space here and there. But again, I feel like I
might be might be being too critical because it is
(23:53):
that type of movie where you want to feel like
you're along for the ride. But they might have done
that a little bit too much. But on a on
a micro level, no notes, this was fantastically edited.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
This was beautifully edited.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
There was no fat within a scene I should say, Like,
you know, like you knew exactly where you were at
all times, you knew where every character was, you knew
what was going on.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
There was no.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I'll give like okay, so like when they give the
fake warrant at Macy Gray's house, and I love seeing
Macy Gray in this.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
She did such a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
She was unrecognizable at the time.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It was one of those things where people saw the
movie and they were like that was Macy Gray, and everybody's.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Like it was wait, who that was Macy Gray.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yeah, she did a phenomenal job. And one thing I
think this goes with the director and the cinematographer as
well as the editor, is that we are not with
Alonso when he's ransacking the place, like when he's looking
for what he's looking for, We're not there. We only
see it from Ethanhawk's perspective. And they do a really
(24:56):
good job of showing the geography of the house going
into it, staying there, seeing Macy Gray sit down with
a nephew, and you know, they did such a great
job of showing how awkward, uh Ethanox character is like
trying to fist bump this little nephew. You know, like
internally it's just like, screw you. You're a white rookie cop.
(25:18):
Why on earth are you trying to connect with me?
And it was just it was it was a wonderful scene,
wonderfully crafted and acted and inacted, and so no, you
know this, this was a wonderfully edited film, wonderfully edited.
And I don't know if he was nominated or what
see he should have been.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
He was not.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think that and Darren, what will go to you
in a second. But from a micro level, what I
love is there's a little bit of music video Antoine
Fuqua that peaks out, and it is very specifically on
the walk up the steps to the house where they're
they're having They have what we will later call the
bath the bathtub scene where they go in and Denzel is,
(25:59):
you know, ropping him off and everything like that for
what we later find out as the hit, and that
walk up the steps is cut so specifically to the
music that's building that everybody's listening to, you know. I
think that's where we see a little bit of the
music video background coming through with Fuquah. But Darren, in
(26:21):
terms of the editing, you know. Conrad buff is also
known for the very very overlooked film Thirteen Days, directed
by Roger Donaldson. If anybody hasn't seen it, I recommend
that you do. Despite Kevin Costner's terrible attempt at at
a Massachusetts.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
Accent, I love Thirteen Days.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's a great film. It's a great film. Any notes
on the editing from you? Do you feel this dragged
at any point?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
No?
Speaker 7 (26:46):
I really agree with what Tristan said. I love the
fact that the world didn't exist outside the car, Like
we don't cut to other people. We know, I don't
know who the chief of police is. I don't know
anything about that. It's just that microcosm of the and
he's got like flifters on his car. It is the
(27:08):
least cop car I've ever seen of a cop car,
which is hilarious and no, it's it's great. And as
you they also use the day in the fact of
once it starts to get a little later and and
you see like the sunset's coming and everything gets more orange.
You're like, oh, that's right, it's training day. This is
(27:28):
only going to take place in this day. So we're
heading towards the end. It's like a visual que coupled
with the title. You know, we're almost to the end
there and then it's dark and again, yeah, echoing the
walk up scenes. I think was this Terry Crew's first
picture of being a background extra or something.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's the first time I ever saw Terry Crews.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
I can tell you that he didn't have any lines.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
He didn't he didn't need it.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
He his lines were here here and here as I
point to my chest. Now he it's just so funny
seeing people when they just start out and later go
on to having many lines and becoming great personalities. But
and what do we had Snoop dog Also, I was like, wait,
that's right he acts occasionally because I was not expecting that.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I say this with actual respect, but if there are
people you're going to in two thousand and one enlist
as celebrity casting to play drug dealers or the like,
Snoop Dogg and Doctor Dre come to top of mind
at the time. And I don't say that in a
in a negative way necessarily. I'm just like, no, they
(28:43):
understand how how this world works. I think what's really
crazy is.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
That eminem was floated around to play Ethan Hawk's character
and the only reason why it didn't happen is because
he was he needs to be on standby for eight Mile,
and there was Toby maguire was going to be Jake
in this movie. Toby McGuire was one going to be Jake,
(29:13):
like he screen tested with Denzel, He he did research,
he did tag alongs with real cops like he was
going to be Jake. And then Ethan Hawk's schedule just
opened up and Fuquah was like, Okay, thanks Toby Bye, and.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Oh that.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Hurts.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
Oh that Ethan Hawk was Fuquah's first choice.
Speaker 7 (29:37):
Right, Okay, number one job, Tell you don't have the
job number one?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
That hurts.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Number two not a bad decision. No, I'm not taking
anything away from Toby maguire, But I really think the
reason I keep hitting on this idea that Ethan Hawk
gets unfairly overlooked is we've covered him on the show.
I'm a big fan of him overall, I think we
all are. But to think that Ethan Hawk is this
character and he's Jesse in the Before trilogy, and he's
(30:06):
you know, like you go through and it's one of
those things where it's like he fits this role so
so well. His physicality, the way he looks, the way
he moves is so.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Right for it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I'd be very interested in an alternate universe sort of
way to see Toby Maguire in the movie. I would,
But I have a real hard time seeing anybody but
Hawk in this film.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Anybody.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
So Fuquah he talked about Hawk and he said, quote,
there's something innocent about Ethan He's such a nice guy,
but there's something in his eyes that tells you he's
seen something.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, after a lifetime in Hollywood, I can imagine Ethan
Hawk has seen things that he never wants to talk
about again, most likely. But you know, we talk about
the editing, we've talked about the performances obviously for the
two main characters. But there is the cinematography there, you know,
and this is shot Bymorrow Fiore. If I mispronounce his name,
(31:06):
I apologize. But he went on after this to win
the Academy Award for Best Cinematography for Avatar, which you
can debate up and down about virtual environments and cinematography
and stuff like that, and praise the trailblazing work of
David Tattersall all that you want to. But Darren, in
terms of the way this film is shot, you'd mentioned
(31:29):
how you know you can see beginning, middle end in.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Terms of a day.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Do you think that the way that it's shot is successful?
Did it invest you in the movie? Did you believe
in the surroundings. You're the one that's closer to La
than I am. There's no rain in this one, no
contant rain in La this time.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
That was it didn't take me out. No, I mean
this that's the thing is, it's it's meant to be
La the movie city, Like I don't think we go
by a single recognizable land at all, Like this is
the part of the town that it looks the same
from satellite image of any other part, like it's just
(32:08):
part of La like and so that was great. I think,
you know, you know, I'm easy to please. John. The
nighttime shots had a moon or something that lit it up.
I could see where everything was. I'm happy.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
That's all. That's all I really want. But no, it looked,
it looked great.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
It I love the you know, I keep going with
the shotgun scene, but the you know, the scene in
his house, I think that for me is the best
visual because that room, it's like a single room and
they draw the blinds and like, and he's sitting in
the chair in the middle like that that was the
(32:45):
set piece really of the entire movie. Like there are
other set pieces obviously, but they're like places we visit
or walk through. We spent time here, you know, we
come here twice, And I think it just that is
I think the greatest visual signature of the movie, beside
the car, you know, would be you know, his his house,
(33:07):
like it's I remember it.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
So Tristan same note to you. Do you agree with
Darren that that the quote unquote first shotgun scene, let's
say it that way with Sandman. Is that the scene
visually for this or is there another one that you
would point to.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I think most people remember the climax when he's in
the neighborhood, surrounded by everybody. It's the middle of the night.
He's been shot in the butt by Jake, and he's
screaming and he's like he's just like he's calling he's
a calling people disloyal, and no one's listened to listening
to him like they used to. I think that is
(33:47):
the scene that people think about when they think training day.
And actually, I need to give a I need to
give a shout out to a friend of mine, Aaron,
who's who's listening to this episode.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
This is his first episode that he's listening house Lights.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Good, Good to meet you.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I was at a cookout and someone mentioned like, oh, yeah,
Trissen does podcasting, and then I was like, oh crap,
the real world is crashing in. He immediately brought it
up on his phone. He brought up House Lights and
he started scrolling through and he just started listing off
all these names of all these movies.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
He's like, oh my god, as all pull fiction. Okay, yeah,
totally all right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
But you'll never hear any discussion my association.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
But he asked me, he said, he's like, what are
you doing next? And he's like, well, actually, tonight, I'm
I'm I'm recording Training Day.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
And he's like, oh my god, Training Day and he
just starts quoting it.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
He starts talking about the scene that I just mentioned,
the climax of the film and everything like that. He's like,
I'm going to listen. I'm absolutely going to listen. And
so he's subscribed. And because he loves Training Day that much.
And we've never talked about movies before, we never talked
about Training Day, but that's what hooked him. He's like,
this movie is still in people's consciousness decades later.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
It absolutely is. I think that.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think the film is very well photographed overall. I
think that Darren, to your point, I can see everything
at night. I love that you keep returning to that.
It fills me with joy because it is a nice
thing to be able to see everything that's going on.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
Set At times forgets this lesson and I will call
them on it.
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Every time.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I know, I know, looking at you the Revenant, but
we have this thing where whoa, whoa just teasing, I'm
just teasing. I love the film. I gave it five stars.
Calm down, don't come at me, don't come at me.
It's okay, settle, settle hey. I even loved Gibson's trailblazing
work with Apocalypto, with using as much natural light as
(35:45):
possible in the jungle scenes and everything like that so
that he wouldn't disturb the foliage and stuff. So I
got you, I got you anyway we detour there. But
in terms of the way that it's shot, Darren, and
I agree with you. Visually that scene, for whatever reason,
where they have Sandman dead to rights and he's not
understanding that his life is about to end. He's laughing
(36:08):
about it. He's like, okay, oh hey, great, oh hey,
why don't you do it?
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Son?
Speaker 6 (36:12):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, Like that is the thing where visually, yes, I
think that is a brilliant scene, the way that it's
shot and the way that it looks. But for me,
the confluence of the photography, the camera placement, and the
editing everything comes together perfectly is the scene that made
(36:33):
me sweat the first time I watched this film, which
is the poker scene is for me, that's the calling
card of everything coming together right in this film. That
is the lynchpin. I honestly think that is a scene
that immediately elevates everything about the movie. We've all seen
the corrupt cop story, We've seen the rookie trying to
make the tough decision story, We've seen all these sorts
(36:55):
of things. That scene, in specific, that's the moment where
there was some in my little lizard brain that went,
I'm never going to forget this for the rest of
my life. I remember watching it for the first time,
and I'm not kidding. My palms started sweating. The minute
that Ethan Hawk realized what had happened.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
I was like, because I was.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Looking around, Darren you talk about I want the character
to get out, I was sitting there in my brain
going there's, oh my god, there's no way out of this.
I'm like, I've I've been in situations not at all
like this, but similar in the sense of I had
to get out of there for various safety reasons, and
I Ethan Hawk nails that scene and the way that
(37:37):
the camera is placed nails that scene because it makes
the right decision of how close in to be everybody
to bring the right amount of menace to everything. So visually,
I think that's really the scene that works best.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
So with that scene, one thing that I loved to
find out about is so they filmed it, they took
they took their time with it. They spent a lot
of time filming scene, and you know, going back on
it and like watching it a couple of times, you
realize that you can hear the sound of Alonso's car
driving away early on in the scene, like you actually
(38:10):
you realize that before you see it. And also one
thing behind the scenes is that Ethan Hawk knew his
lines obviously, but he didn't know all of the other
guys's lines. Fuquag helped it a secret. And he also
didn't know what the other guys were going to do.
So like when a Cliff Curtis takes his gun and
(38:33):
then tosses it to Raymond Cruz, like he like he's
about to give it to Ethan Hawk, but then he
tosses it at the last second. Hawk didn't know that
was going to happen, And so they know that they're
toying with Hawk the actor in the same way that
they're toying with with Jake the character. And I think
that that shows a really great insight into Fuqua's ability
(38:57):
to work with people and working with actors, because there's
a lot of great directors who don't work well with actors,
who are just like great, great at driving, plot, great
visual directors, great production designers, but you know, there's a
lot of people who just don't understand or respect the
acting experience. And I think that's one of those times
when Fuquah really shined was in that scene. And also
(39:20):
it's so funny seeing Cliff Curtis by Avato like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, you know, I think that there is I think
Cliff Curtis though really there are moments, there are decisions
shots that they show of him where you see him
looking at the phone, and especially the second time you
watch the film, you're like, oh wow, because like you
see that he's looking at the phone and he just
got the go ahead, okay, I'm driving off, take care
(39:46):
of it. He's like okay, okay, like you, and you
see him looking at Hawk making the decision, well, when
are we going to make our move with this guy?
How much fun are we going to have with this?
And it's you know, and you suddenly piece together the
counting the money. You know, when he tells her to
go off and count the money, it's because he wants
to make sure Alonso made the right payment for what's
about to happen. And it's like, ah, like it's so
(40:09):
well well done overall, top to bottom well.
Speaker 7 (40:13):
And like I mentioned in the beginning, where Alonso is
is so one step ahead through most of this, this
scene is like a little microcosm of that. And I
love when the shoe drops and you realize the game
with the gun is to get him disarmed, and they
do like I love me a smart villain and those
(40:35):
you know, those men like just the whole like, oh,
let me see it. And obviously he's not going to
hand him a loaded gun, so he unloads it and
takes it out of the chamber and gets it to him,
and now he's even if he could grab.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
His gun, it can't do anything.
Speaker 7 (40:48):
And that moment you see it hit his eyes where
he realizes, oh, I'm in so much trouble.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Right when the guy asked for the gun, he should
have just pulled it and just started shooting randomly, just
like right, that was his only chance, that was his
one chance. But then it all comes together. And this
is where I give credit to the writing, because it's
so easy for it to come across when an earlier
action in the script pays off and you're like, oh, well,
(41:17):
you just did that because writing school said you're supposed
to do that, and instead the scene where you know,
they grab his wallet, No, I want to get his
wallet before you shoot him, because it's like, I don't
want blood all over the stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Let me see what I can steal.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
And they they get the wallet, like and you realize
that Hawk's inherent good nature, his desire to do good
things is what saves his life.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Is such a.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Thing that you know he's going to win in the
end without it being trite. He's not given a magic
flaming sword to take Alonzo out. It's simply the fact
that you realize he is the good guy and I
need to root for him no matter what, no matter
how how magnetic Denzel has been before this point. But
(42:05):
in terms of you know, emotional resonance, score is so
key to it. But I think that if the score
of a film is key to the emotional resonance of something.
I don't necessarily think that Training Day is something where
I'm thinking of the score too much. Maybe I'm wrong,
maybe I'm not thinking of it.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
In the right way.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
But Mark Mancina does the score for Training Day and
he actually is a A. I think they phrase it
as a graduate of the Hans Zimmer School, which is
strange because I don't hear lots of drums in this,
so maybe maybe he only got a C.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
I don't know, no, no, no, I can hear it
in this ken I can.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
It's the you know, when you listen to the music,
it's very brooding, and I think it like it does, really,
I think it does. It's a lot like the cinematography,
where it doesn't insist upon itself, where it's it doesn't
make you aware of itself very easily, but you know
it's there because it does its job. Like you, you're
(43:06):
unaware of it because it does its job. And with
this music particular, it's very brooding. It has this really
nice tension and unease to it, which is very much
Zimmer later in life. I think later in his career
he gets really into the tension building and the and
the uneasiness I feel like it has a kind of
a gritty atmosphere to it. It's really moody, and he
(43:31):
also mixes in some hip hop elements here and there,
and you don't really notice it, but it's there if
you are paying attention for it.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Maybe that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Maybe it's too successful at blending it.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
It might be.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
It might be because I have to. I had to
really this is not a score that is in your face,
but I had to really really pay attention to just
the score while watching it in preparation for this podcast
in order to get that opinion.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's I mean, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I mean, Darren, do you do you share that opinion
that it's like if you if you isolate the score
and actually pay attention to it, you understand what's happening.
And I should just go back and sort of like
try to get my head around it again.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
Yeah, it's I mean, scores they kind of fall into
a couple different categories, and this one is definitely it's there.
It does its job, It connects with the emotional moments.
It's not like, oh, why'd they play that in that
key dramatic moment It's was so jarring, But I couldn't
hum you a bar you know, of anything.
Speaker 6 (44:32):
From it, which isn't bad.
Speaker 7 (44:34):
It's I mean that is more akin to a Williams
score or some sort of score that has a a
theme that are connected to characters. This is not that
kind of score, which again isn't bad. It's just a
different way of resonating. I think it's harder for this
type of score to be memorable in the traditional sense.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Okay, it's not the rock.
Speaker 6 (44:57):
It doesn't have a you know, d D like a motif.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Right, Okay, I mean that's fair.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I think that we talk about it from time to
time where it's like sometimes the score blends in and
so it's not a score you listen to, but it's
a score that actually elevates the work. And so maybe
that's just a thing where my ear wasn't picking up
on it because it was what the film needed as
opposed to keep in mind that the vein in which
(45:28):
I'm offering this the you know, it's not like a
John Williams score where it's like, oh, I'm gonna run
out and buy the soundtrack and listen to Jurassic Park
all day, Like, this isn't that type of thing.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Although there are some absolutely prime.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Choices of music on this soundtrack that are wonderful, wonderful works.
But you know, as we as we wrap this up,
I gotta know there was a sequel, I'm sorry, a
prequel rumor to be in development, or it might still
be in development for this Following a Young Alonzo, And
(46:01):
I have to know, Tristan, would you buy a ticket
to go see Training Day day of the Riot Following
a Young Alonzo where it starts two days before the
Rodney King verdict in La. Would you sign up to
watch that? Or do you think Training Day is a
movie that should just be left alone and let's not
come back to it.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
Like if I was in a point of decision, Like
if I was a decision maker, I'd say, no, let's
leave it alone. But if they made it, yeah, I'd
watch it. Like I wouldn't walk away from it. I
wouldn't say like, oh god never, no Training Day is sacred,
but I would. I would watch it and see what
they did with it. But I have a feeling that
it's one of those things where like we can imagine
(46:45):
where things went wrong with Alonzo, we can figure that out,
you know, we can understand that it was he just
spent too long on the job. He'd absolutely just spent
too long on the job.
Speaker 5 (46:54):
And this might.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Don't this is not a one to one and this
is absolute hyperbole, so don't don't take this too crazy.
But it's kind of like how you don't want to
know the Joker's background, Like you don't always want to
know where he comes from, Like sometimes you just need
evil to be evil, or you know, like the more
in Titus Andronicus. You know, like sometimes there are beings
that are just evil and faustian, like you talked about.
(47:21):
And also before we move on, I need to mention
this is that because it's so easy to miss is
that when they kill Roger and then you know, like
we we have that great music where we isolate on
Jake and he's kind of staring at Alonzo and it's
a little bit in slow motion and we're just trying
to He's just trying to figure out what to do next.
He's like, good Lord, how did I get myself into this?
(47:44):
When Alonzo's in the car and he calls for Jake
to come over and get into the car, he's staring
Jake down. He is making eye contact with Jake and
Alonso is on the phone and says, just make sure
the bathtub's clean.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Okay, yes, I caught that this time. Yes, it's an amazing,
chilling moment.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Chilling chilling moment.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
It's just something that you completely miss.
Speaker 4 (48:07):
You're just like, okay, whatever the hell that means, and
you don't always make that connection. But it's just like,
That's one thing I really like about this movie is
that the late like when he says, he's like, this
is check this is chess, this is not Checkers.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Yeah, and you you believe Alonzo because Denzel gives so
much to it anyway.
Speaker 7 (48:24):
And that was one question I wanted to pose to
either of you. Was and and maybe it's clear in
the in the movie, but I was trying to think
about it after the fact of was Alonzo always planning
to burn Jake or was there ever a moment when
if he had taken the shot he would have come
(48:46):
into the inner circle? Or or was it really from
the get go he was set up as the fall guy,
Like I don't know, it feels like he doesn't do
this often, bringing people into the circle, and it's like
why now, why this? Because I raise money troubles. You know,
he's trying to he's on a deadline. He's got to
(49:07):
get that money by tonight.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
I think that if Jake had pulled the trigger, Alonso
would not have set him up.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
I think took the money. Oh yeah, taking the money
is key.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But arguably if Jake pulled the trigger, that's the kind
of guy who takes the money, you know, like both
of those tumblers line up to unlock that for sure.
I'll throw out there that there is a movie it's not.
I don't recall it as a terrific movie, but it's
a worthwhile movie also written by David Ayr. Because we're
(49:41):
talking about a Training Day prequel that's set two days
before the LA riots about the Rodney King verdict. There
is a David Arrow David Ayer written movie starring Kurt
Russell called Dark Blue that has to do with corrupt
LAPD stuff going on in that time period. So I
think that's worth checking out. Not a great film, I'm
(50:05):
putting that qualifier all over it, but of course it's
a Kurt Russell movie, so of course I watched it.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
So but did you guys watch topic? Did you guys
watch Training Day? The TV?
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Show goodness.
Speaker 6 (50:16):
No, I did not know about it until I looked
it up.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
But yeah, it's had Bill Paxon in it. I never
watched it.
Speaker 6 (50:24):
I was one season, thirteen episodes. I don't think it.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeah it was. It was a mid season replacement. The
concept doesn't work. It just doesn't like that. This is Yeah. No,
that's setting aside prequel and sequel considerations. A TV series
Space Respace is just misguided at best. So but all
of that said, I think that we've had a lot
of praise. So here as we give our final thoughts,
(50:50):
I'll give all of us a chance to offer any
negative comments we might have about training day to alienate
Tristan's friend who's listening for the first time. So I
will this you know, to you first, Darren, because we
love to pick on you, and this is your first viewing.
Well wait a minute, it's the first viewing. You should
go last, shouldn't you. Yes, Darren'll go last because it's
(51:11):
his first viewing. I'll go first because I'm gonna be boring.
Five star movie. It's a in terms of how it's written.
It's a four star movie. It is elevated by the performances,
and I think the direction. This is a five star film.
I've loved it since the moment I watched it. I
consider it incredibly compelling. When I first started rewatching it,
(51:33):
I was like, Okay, I've only got an hour on
a morning. I'm just gonna watch half of this. I've
seen it before, couldn't stop, just kept going through. It's
a five star film for me, Tristan, your next five stars.
Speaker 4 (51:45):
This is this is one of the greats, Like, this
is something that has really tapped in to the consciousness
and people will always remember this as one of Denzel's
finest performances. And it's there's a reason why he won
the Oscar And this was a huge upod because everyone
thought that Russell Crowe was going to win for a
Beautiful Mind, and it was well deserved. And even though
(52:08):
Beautiful Mind is a good movie, Denzel absolutely deserved it.
This year, I think that ethanok was robbed because like
no one, I mean Broadbent, Jim Brombert is a fantastic actor.
Don't want to take anything away from him, but the
movie iris no one saw it and no one has
seen it since.
Speaker 5 (52:27):
I'm sorry, but it's just it did not tap.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
Into the cultural consciousness, like Training Day, And I know
you have to judge it on an individual basis, on
individual performances, but this is one of those times when
you know.
Speaker 5 (52:43):
And also Fuquah doesn't get enough credit.
Speaker 4 (52:45):
I agree, you know, like because because like when when
when a performer does a great job, like oh, that
actor is fantastic, and when it happened in a vacuum,
like yeah, and and like and if a good performer
does a bad job, it's like terrible direct terrible directing,
and so they only get the negative, never the positive.
And I wish that fuqua was was nominated for this one.
Speaker 5 (53:09):
I really do.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
It was such a wonderful job directing because he's he's
the one who helped to bring it all together. An
air script was super solid. And I have enjoyed other
things of his works and not everything, obviously, because there's
been a few things where you're like okay, but it's
he definitely has a voice and it comes through And
(53:31):
I cannot wait until next week to figure out to
see this pairing again.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, so Darren, you're the first viewing. What is your
rating of your first viewing of Trading Day?
Speaker 7 (53:44):
Yeah, I wanted to check on Fuquah for a second,
because I know we jumped over bait, which oh man,
fifteen million box office.
Speaker 6 (53:52):
Yeah, that's a skip, but.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
I wanted to see okay, So this was really where
it came together for him, you know, act directing story
like just boom boom, boom boom. It's a five for sure.
I really enjoyed it. It's watchable, and I want to
look for the clues he placed in, you know, like
(54:16):
you said, like is the battub clean? You know, things
like that that are woven throughout the story. Not that
all movies have to have that, but when a director
is that intentional, when a script is that tight, it's
really a joy to watch again, and it happens far
too infrequently for what we should be getting in cinema.
Speaker 6 (54:36):
So, and like you.
Speaker 7 (54:37):
Said, John, So five across the board and we are
going to jump forward for our next pairing of Denzel Washington.
We're going to go on another Denzel Washington trip. Gentlemen,
It's going to be a fun time. As next week
we cover the Equalizer from twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Here on house Lights, Join the Revolution, Join the net
Car Team, Yam
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back to House Lights, the second entry in fact
in the House of Fuquah. We are examining this week
Training Day, two thousand and one's very impactful film with
Denzel Washington and Ethan Hawke to explore this tale of
police corruption on the LAPD.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I will be your guide.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You can call me Alonso, that's my nickname for this episode,
and we'll be joined along with our rookie ride along
Tristan Riddell and our drug lord in a Bathrobe, Darren Moser. So, gentlemen,
welcome to our discussion about Training Day. And this is
a very, very culturally impactful This is a movie that
(01:02):
absolutely has had an outsized footprint over time. It makes
constant reference and all sorts of things. Everybody eventually saw it.
We'll get to the box office later. But of course
our traditional question is there are two traditional questions then, Tristan,
I'll give them to you first, because the second question,
it's just for you, is uh, where did you see it?
Speaker 3 (01:25):
When? Did you see it for the first time?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And was it even technically possible for your father to
have a Redell cut of Training Day?
Speaker 4 (01:33):
It's funny that you asked that because I saw this
movie when it came out on video when I was
because early two thousand's is when I was in high
school and I was absolutely gobbling everything up that I
possibly could. I was watching anything and everything, and I
you know, wore out my membership card to Blockbuster. I
(01:54):
was just renting, you know, stacks of movies every weekend.
And this as soon and His Training Day came out
on video. I got it because I was not able
to go see it in the theater and I was
I just was in awe of it.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
I was blown away.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
It felt so raw and real and I know this,
this is this is gonna make me sound like a
reviewer from from the two thousands, but it's in your face.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
You know, it's you know, it's got a pulse. It's
got its finger on the pulse of what's happening in
Los Angeles. Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And Denzel was electric and Ethan Hawk never gets enough
credit for it. But yeah, I watched it and I
immediately bought it, like I rented it and then I
bought it, and I loved it so much that I
was like, Dad, you have to watch this with me.
And I I don't know why I was so brave
or brazen. I don't know which way you want to
which one, which one you want to call it. But
(02:54):
because my dad, my dad's fine with violence, he's fine
with language. He can't stand and vulgarity. He just absolutely
cannot stand vulgarity. And they're all the distinction. Draw the
distinction for people at home. Oh okay, like language.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And vulgarity and stuff like that, because so like plump
that stuff together.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Okay, Well, I'm glad that you asked, because like, you know,
language would be okay. So like if you're doing, like
you turn on the TV and it has the you know,
like it has the rating on the top top left
of the screen and it says language and suggestive dialogue.
Language is the actual words like damn and S word,
F word, you know, calling someone a bastard or something
(03:35):
like that like that, like individual words like that's language.
Suggestive dialogue kind of goes into the vulgarity character like
I mean category, like when he's talking about you know,
how he you know, how ETHANHOWK sleeps with his wife
or like if he slept with his if he had
sex with his training officer, like the way that he
talks about it, or the way that he talks about
(03:56):
other people, like where he degrades them or where he
puts them down, or he tries to dominate them, and
things like that. And like, though those kind of instances,
that kind of dialogue, my dad can't stand that. He
has no use for it, no use for it. But
I felt like this movie, even though it contained that,
it had enough value to set the scene. It's kind
(04:19):
of like when you set a cop drama in Boston,
you know you're gonna have like they use the effort
like a comma. Like if you were to make The
Departed and it was a PG rating or a PG
thirteen rating for language, it just wouldn't be authentic in
any way, shape or form. And so when you when
you're dealing with these kind of people, you have to
have this kind of talk. And so probably probably felt
(04:42):
like that gave it, gave it a pass, and I'll
always remember that. My dad, I think, was most fascinated
with the scene where Denzel tells Ethan Hawk to smoke
the pipe mm hm and he's in the middle of
the intersection. My dad loved that scene. He thought it
was absolutely crazy, and the loved how when the guy's
honking his horn at Denzel and Denzel just pulls a
(05:03):
gun on him, and the guy in the car he
doesn't get scared. He doesn't, you know, like get out
of his car. He just kind of smiles, puts his
hands up and he's like, okay, right, yes, like yes,
it's yes, it's Los Angeles.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
It's not the first time that's happened to him. Yeah,
he's had a gun pulled on him before, he knows what.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So that was the first and last time that my
dad watched it, and I don't remember him being angry,
but I also don't remember him saying that like, oh
my god, that was amazing.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
So there and that's where it lands, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
So, Darren, you're obviously much more comfortable with vulgarity than
Tristan's dad was. And so what take us through the
first time you saw this? Like, did you see this
because of the reputation? Was it the marketing? Like what
was it that made you want to see Training Day
the first time?
Speaker 6 (05:46):
So I was unsure.
Speaker 7 (05:49):
I couldn't recall if i'd seen this because it felt
like the kind of film I would have seen with
my you know, film studies you know, friends in college.
But upon rewatching it, I nothing was recognizable. So I
think this was my first time really sitting down and
watching it for all intensive purposes. So yeah, it was Uh,
(06:11):
I watched it on the biggest screen. I could definitely
made sure the kids weren't gonna come in and but yeah,
so I think what I had to do was because
I often, I think, mentally mix this up with Man
on Fire. So I had to mentally be like, no,
this is this movie and this is how things are going.
(06:34):
So it was fun because it was a twist and
turns of like this guy, you know, either not being
placed in this situation where you know, I mean, it's
just you could see immediately why it's referenced, why it's
you know, studied, because these two characters are going through
(06:56):
something that it's not relatable. I don't watch it going. Yeah,
when I had my first day on the job, I really,
you know, wasn't sure if I was gonna get in,
except when I had to smoke the pipe that my
boss handed me. No, that is not relatable. But it's
it's like when you watch like a military movie and
(07:16):
you're not in the military or any other movie where
it's something almost bording on fantastical. The situation is fantastical
where you're like, what's he gonna do? And that's the hook,
not the not relatability, but more of I don't know
how I would get out of it, but I want
this character to get out of it, but I don't
see a way out of it.
Speaker 6 (07:37):
And that's that's so fun.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
See, it's so interesting because I saw this on video. Now,
just for context, so everybody understands, this movie came out
October fifth of two thousand and one, so it came
out in the aftermath of a very significant world event
that affected people in.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
A very very specific way.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
The film still managed to double its budget plus a little,
so that's pretty good all things being considered. There is
always going to be a part of me that entertains
the idea that this movie would have done even better
numbers had the situation been different. Now, one hundred and
four or one hundred five million is pretty decent by
(08:25):
two thousand and one standards, but it's not Gangbusters, so
I would have imagined in a different environment. Because once
this found its audience on video, much like the original Terminator,
there was an audience for it and so I just
I think that that's why the movie persists in a
(08:47):
lot of ways. And I think looking at it now
because it's been a long time since I've seen it,
and I want to put this out there, you know, Darren,
I'll throw it back to you first. But you say, oh,
I want this character to find his way out of it,
and then you reference that very well done scene we
all have now of smoke the pipe. If you want
to be in, you got to smoke the pipe. You
got to prove that you're part of this. And maybe
(09:09):
it's just age, But now I look at it and
I see that Faucian bargain. I mean, I think it's
easier to just say I'm getting out of the car
and leaving because my career is not who cares what
the future is? And I think that's the benefit of age.
I think Evan hawks, he's a young rookie, wanted to
get in. That's that's a dilemma for a young age.
(09:32):
That's not a dilemma for somebody who's no longer that young.
Speaker 7 (09:37):
Well, he's he's targeted, really, and that's what's most interesting
about watching this, or rewatching this, is seeing, you know,
Denzel I don't want to just call him Denzel the
entire time, a.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Lot of Alonzo.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
You know he no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Denzel's one of those guys, one of those actress where
you can just call him Denzel for the rest of
the conversation.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
You know who we're talking about.
Speaker 7 (10:01):
But but he he has this guy's number from the
moment he gets in the car, like everything is planned.
And I love the reveal later of oh that wasn't
just a test of oh yeah, if the drug dealer
offers you something and you bock at it, you're gonna
get caught. It's like, no, now, I'm holding this over you,
(10:21):
so you're gonna comply and become part of my team.
And it's just the layers that are already in place.
The only thing that you know that Jake does off
script is save the girl in the alley, and that's
what saves him, because you know, Alonso wasn't gonna stop.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
He was just like, well whatever, he didn't see it.
He was on as well.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
The next thing.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
That's what that's what's really interesting is that if you try,
if you watch this movie a couple of times, you
start to understand that the only reason why Jake is
still alive is because he never listens to Alonso, where like, okay,
so like he jumped out of the car and saved
that girl, you know, when a Lonzo told him not to,
(11:04):
and that's what saved him in the bathtub, he you know,
like Alonzo tells him never go into this neighborhood alone,
and at the end of the movie, he goes into
that neighborhood alone to find Alonzo. And I know that
there's one other thing that I can't think of right now.
I should have wrote it down, but there was one
other time that it was just it was another area
(11:26):
where you know, like we're presented with Alonso, who at
first it's like, oh, this is the this is the
wise old stage. This is the guy who's been through it.
You know, he's seen a thing or two. He's he's grizzled,
he's you know, like he's jaded, and he knows what
the streets. This is the way the world is. This
(11:47):
is this is the way that the streets work. And
so you want to pay attention to him and you
want to listen to him, and then you start to
realize like, holy crap, no, this I feel like Fuquah
and Air. David Air, who wrote it, is presenting Alonso.
And I'm not saying this lightly or even like, you know,
like I'm not trying to like cast us. This is
not a throwaway comment, but I feel like they're presenting
(12:08):
him as the devil. And yeah, yeah, I'm so glad
that you brought that up earlier, John the Faustian bargain.
It really feels like he is this satanic figure. And
I'm not saying like, oh, you know, he goes back
home and sacrifices babies and puts on horns. I'm saying
he is this this bashon of evil and of temptation,
(12:31):
where you know, like we see at the beginning, Ethan
Hawk's character has a lovely wife and a lovely little girl,
and all he wants to do is provide for them.
And right off the bat you realize that from a
character of perspective, he is all that's all they wants
to do. He's like, he's like, yeah, those guys, you
see their houses, you know, you see how big their
houses are. You know, he doesn't want a big house
(12:53):
just to have a big house. He wants to provide
for his family. And then early on. He's just like,
let's not talk about my family. Okay, don't talk my
white wife. Don't talk my family. That's a sensitive subject.
But the thing is, Denzel Alonso, excuse me, is is presenting.
He's like, he's like, you know, like but just a
little bit of evil, just a little bit of evil,
and then you'll get what you need. I can make you.
(13:13):
I can make you a detective. I can make you
eighteen months.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
Give me eighteen months, man, eighteen months. All you gotta
do is smoke the pipe. All you to do is
kill the guy. You know.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
It's just like it's this little little bit here and there,
here and there, and he keeps pushing it and pushing
it forward.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
All you got to do is kill the guy. And
he was a drug dealer, but.
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Nobody he gave drugs to kids. Man, that he's a
terrible person.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
He deserved If it wasn't us that shot him, somebody
else was going to like that that.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's that that seductive sort of thing that doesn't really
boil over until I mean, Ethan Hawk really gets that
lesson in Uh, there is no loyalty.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
Among the evil.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And I think I think if anything and this is
the one thing I want to bring out about the
way the movie goes is interest.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I'll throw this to you first.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Do you think that this is another one of those
movies akin to Fight Club, where people fall in love
with it and sometimes miss the meaning, the theme behind it,
what's actually happening. Do you think people fall so in
love with Denzel Washington's performance as Alonzo that they lose
sight of the fact that Alonzo is a terrible person
that you do not want. He has no wisdom, he
(14:24):
offers nothing. He is an empty shell. He's a husk
of a soul's He's an evil person. Do you think
people miss the point because Denzel Washington is so spot
on perfect in the role.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I think it's a I think it's very possible I have.
I'll give you one little tidbit. There was a I
had a boss, terrible person, and like the first day
on the job, he asked me.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
How I like, how well I know Spanish?
Speaker 4 (14:56):
And I said, you know, not very and I won't
I won't quote Alonzo here, but he quoted Alonzo like
verbatim what Alonzo said about Spanish and about everything like that,
And I was and I just kind of laughed to
myself and I said to him, I shouldn't have said
this because it was my first day. I was like, yeah,
I like training day too. But like he he was
(15:19):
probably one of those people who was like I would
love to emulate Alonzo. I think that it's it's interesting
because you know, like people you know, look at Fight
Club and like you said, that was a great example,
like they completely missed the message. And I mean also
with the boys on Prime, you know there are people
who completely missed the message and think that Homelander it's
(15:42):
somebody to strive like a personality to strive for. And
you're like, oh, people are that stupid? Like if you
asked me a couple of years ago, I probably would
have said no, no, no, nobody could miss that.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
But no, people are that stupid? Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Or Vic Mackey in The Shield, the charismatic villain no
matter how many times, or uh, you know what, Walt
in Breaking Bead he becomes an anti hero figure and
it's like, no, no, this guy's a piece of garbage.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
He's a terrible person.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
You don't quote Jesse, you don't want to idolize it.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Well to quote Jesse. He can't keep getting away with this,
you know, like exactly so.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Like that Hannibal Lecter. You know he's he's he's a smartie.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
He's a little wacky, but he knows the classics. He's
obviously very educated.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
Great artist's not a hobby you know, right, You know
that he loves and he has votes himself to it.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Like you said, Tristan, patron of the arts. You know,
he funds things. I mean, you know, you gotta look
at both sides here where of course, kidding everybody, please
don't take us out of context.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
So Darren, I'll throw to you.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Like Denzel has this electrifying performance, it wins him the Oscar.
He had a terrific line. I can't remember what the
specific line was, but he won the same night that
they gave an achievement ward. I think to Sydney Poitier,
and he had a very funny one line when he
walked up and received the award. The clips online, go
ahead and take it, take a look at it, guys.
(17:05):
But Darren, do you think that because of that electric performance,
do you think that over time Ethan Hawk's performance. Tristan
made reference to this earlier. Do you think that Ethan
Hawk's performance has been unfairly overlooked in terms of this film.
Speaker 6 (17:20):
I mean I can see that.
Speaker 7 (17:22):
I mean I'm not a ficionado as far as you know, Oh,
I know all the ins and outs of this film
and the message boards and all that. But no, even
on a first viewing it, there's not a lot of
air left in the room with him with Denzel giving
that performance. And while you know, Ethan's character is just
(17:45):
as important because you need him to talk to somebody,
He's not just gonna monologue his way through the entire movie.
You can't remove the character and he's the one being
put through all of this. But it is it is
not fifty even close. So yeah, I maybe on on
(18:06):
rewatch that'd be interesting to to really dive into Ethan's performance.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
But I even on the first viewing, towards the latter.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
Half, this is before he's kind of started to have
the stone face of you know, he's making the tough
decisions kind of right in the where he's in the middle.
He is giving quite a performance in someone who's trapped,
who is trapped in a car in a situation, and
it is starting to spiral even before the shotgun scene,
(18:40):
like and I'm not talking about the bathsle I'm talking
about like when he's asked to shoot, and because that's
really when the hammer drops a gun reference intended.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
But I love that when he when he takes the
shotgun and puts it back on Alonzo and he's like,
this is don't you pull.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
A gun on me.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There will not be a third like in that exact moment.
They needed to give him a win. They needed him
to have the upper hand in some fashion.
Speaker 6 (19:05):
Yeah, no, that moment is amazing.
Speaker 7 (19:08):
And yeah, honestly it almost caught me off guard Ethan
being in this because on again not reading into it
now looking into it as I usually try to go
in cold for new movies, and I've seen Heathan a
ton and a lot of movies you've covered here on
House Lights. I was like, oh, here we go again,
and man, they are just the duo in this. Again,
(19:32):
not to emulate Alonzo at all, but yeah, so I
can see Denzel winning for sure, And yeah, I would echo,
like you said, John, give Ethan's viewing a second watch.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
Because it is good. It's just there's not enough air left.
Speaker 5 (19:51):
In the room.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
And it's funny because Ethan Honk has more screen time
than Alonzo Yep in this movie. Yeah, and it begins
and ends with him at home. The beginning of the
movie is him leaving home. The end of the movie
is him coming back home, and we get it more
from his perspective than we do Denzel's. But if you
ask anybody, anybody on the street you know whose movie
(20:12):
is that, they'd say Denzel.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you know, you mentioned the beginning of the ending
of the framing he leaves home, he comes back from home,
which makes me immediately think to editing, because there is
an alternate ending to this movie, which I think, I
think whoever made the decision not to use it, that
that existed, which had the corrupt people that Alonso was
(20:35):
talking to at Jake's house. Oh, I'm so grateful they
did not use that ending, because that would have been
the most trite type of ending you could have possibly had.
It's I think it's way better the way that it ends,
but it of course brings us in.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
That's the thing, like he wouldn't have won.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Well, it's the way. It's the way it's set up.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Because I remember watching it on whatever release it was,
and the alternate left it with this question of oh
is he actually going to become a lonzo with the
money in his hand, like it was sort of like
supposed to be one of that thing, one of those
things where it's like, is he actually going to remain virtuous?
And I'm like, I really prefer the way that it
goes because that question is it's not as pointed at
(21:19):
the end. It leaves you with a lot to process.
But it's an editing decision, obviously, And so that brings
us to the editing, which we all love to talk about.
And Conrad buff who has edited a lot of movies,
including all Star classics like Terminator two. He was an
(21:40):
editor on Titanic and he's the editor here. And so
my question and Tristan, I love to throw the editing
questions to you first from a macro level, is it
good editing? Does it keep things moving for the two
hours and two minutes or was there any drag for you?
And is there any evidence of a scene micro instance
(22:01):
of the editing that you think was particularly fantastic.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
I think macro some of the car scenes could have
been truncated a little bit, but I'm hesitant to say
that because some of the best things that happened happened
in the car. I think there was a I actually
I want to I want to take that back a
little bit. I want to dial that back. I think
(22:25):
that one thing that I love about movies, I love
when movies exist in a day. It's like, this is
the day we are witnessing one day in this person's life,
and it's a crazy day. I very much enjoy movies
like that. Ethan Hawk is known for them, and yeah, yes, yes,
with this, with this particular story, they really make you
(22:47):
feel that, they really make you feel like not a
lot of time is passing. And he picks him up.
He meets him at ten am, and then they go
way late into the night, and I think up until midnight.
I think midnight is when he's supposed to to meet
the Russians. But I think a victim of that type
of storytelling is that you see them go physically go everywhere.
(23:08):
And what I mean by that is they get into
the car, they talk, they get out of the car
and walk. They walk to the next location. They're at
the location, they exit that location, walk to the car,
get into the car, drive around a little bit, and
then they get to the next location, get out of
said car walk to the next location, you know, like
it shows every little bit of their day.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
You know.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Of course it's truncated because we're got in a two
hour movie and it's you know, like twelve hours, twelve
hour time, fourteen hours, I guess I should say. And
so I think it's a it's more of a victim
of that, like if we could truncate some of the
space here and there. But again, I feel like I
might be might be being too critical because it is
(23:53):
that type of movie where you want to feel like
you're along for the ride. But they might have done
that a little bit too much. But on a on
a micro level, no notes, this was fantastically edited.
Speaker 5 (24:04):
This was beautifully edited.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
There was no fat within a scene I should say, Like,
you know, like you knew exactly where you were at
all times, you knew where every character was, you knew
what was going on.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
There was no.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
I'll give like okay, so like when they give the
fake warrant at Macy Gray's house, and I love seeing
Macy Gray in this.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
She did such a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
She was unrecognizable at the time.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
It was one of those things where people saw the
movie and they were like that was Macy Gray, and everybody's.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Like it was wait, who that was Macy Gray.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Yeah, she did a phenomenal job. And one thing I
think this goes with the director and the cinematographer as
well as the editor, is that we are not with
Alonso when he's ransacking the place, like when he's looking
for what he's looking for, We're not there. We only
see it from Ethanhawk's perspective. And they do a really
(24:56):
good job of showing the geography of the house going
into it, staying there, seeing Macy Gray sit down with
a nephew, and you know, they did such a great
job of showing how awkward, uh Ethanox character is like
trying to fist bump this little nephew. You know, like
internally it's just like, screw you. You're a white rookie cop.
(25:18):
Why on earth are you trying to connect with me?
And it was just it was it was a wonderful scene,
wonderfully crafted and acted and inacted, and so no, you
know this, this was a wonderfully edited film, wonderfully edited.
And I don't know if he was nominated or what
see he should have been.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
He was not.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think that and Darren, what will go to you
in a second. But from a micro level, what I
love is there's a little bit of music video Antoine
Fuqua that peaks out, and it is very specifically on
the walk up the steps to the house where they're
they're having They have what we will later call the
bath the bathtub scene where they go in and Denzel is,
(25:59):
you know, ropping him off and everything like that for
what we later find out as the hit, and that
walk up the steps is cut so specifically to the
music that's building that everybody's listening to, you know. I
think that's where we see a little bit of the
music video background coming through with Fuquah. But Darren, in
(26:21):
terms of the editing, you know. Conrad buff is also
known for the very very overlooked film Thirteen Days, directed
by Roger Donaldson. If anybody hasn't seen it, I recommend
that you do. Despite Kevin Costner's terrible attempt at at
a Massachusetts.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
Accent, I love Thirteen Days.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's a great film. It's a great film. Any notes
on the editing from you? Do you feel this dragged
at any point?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
No?
Speaker 7 (26:46):
I really agree with what Tristan said. I love the
fact that the world didn't exist outside the car, Like
we don't cut to other people. We know, I don't
know who the chief of police is. I don't know
anything about that. It's just that microcosm of the and
he's got like flifters on his car. It is the
(27:08):
least cop car I've ever seen of a cop car,
which is hilarious and no, it's it's great. And as
you they also use the day in the fact of
once it starts to get a little later and and
you see like the sunset's coming and everything gets more orange.
You're like, oh, that's right, it's training day. This is
(27:28):
only going to take place in this day. So we're
heading towards the end. It's like a visual que coupled
with the title. You know, we're almost to the end
there and then it's dark and again, yeah, echoing the
walk up scenes. I think was this Terry Crew's first
picture of being a background extra or something.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's the first time I ever saw Terry Crews.
Speaker 5 (27:53):
I can tell you that he didn't have any lines.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
He didn't he didn't need it.
Speaker 7 (27:56):
He his lines were here here and here as I
point to my chest. Now he it's just so funny
seeing people when they just start out and later go
on to having many lines and becoming great personalities. But
and what do we had Snoop dog Also, I was like, wait,
that's right he acts occasionally because I was not expecting that.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
I say this with actual respect, but if there are
people you're going to in two thousand and one enlist
as celebrity casting to play drug dealers or the like,
Snoop Dogg and Doctor Dre come to top of mind
at the time. And I don't say that in a
in a negative way necessarily. I'm just like, no, they
(28:43):
understand how how this world works. I think what's really
crazy is.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
That eminem was floated around to play Ethan Hawk's character
and the only reason why it didn't happen is because
he was he needs to be on standby for eight Mile,
and there was Toby maguire was going to be Jake
in this movie. Toby McGuire was one going to be Jake,
(29:13):
like he screen tested with Denzel, He he did research,
he did tag alongs with real cops like he was
going to be Jake. And then Ethan Hawk's schedule just
opened up and Fuquah was like, Okay, thanks Toby Bye, and.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Oh that.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
Hurts.
Speaker 5 (29:34):
Oh that Ethan Hawk was Fuquah's first choice.
Speaker 7 (29:37):
Right, Okay, number one job, Tell you don't have the
job number one?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
That hurts.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Number two not a bad decision. No, I'm not taking
anything away from Toby maguire, But I really think the
reason I keep hitting on this idea that Ethan Hawk
gets unfairly overlooked is we've covered him on the show.
I'm a big fan of him overall, I think we
all are. But to think that Ethan Hawk is this
character and he's Jesse in the Before trilogy, and he's
(30:06):
you know, like you go through and it's one of
those things where it's like he fits this role so
so well. His physicality, the way he looks, the way
he moves is so.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Right for it.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
I'd be very interested in an alternate universe sort of
way to see Toby Maguire in the movie. I would,
But I have a real hard time seeing anybody but
Hawk in this film.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Anybody.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
So Fuquah he talked about Hawk and he said, quote,
there's something innocent about Ethan He's such a nice guy,
but there's something in his eyes that tells you he's
seen something.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Well, after a lifetime in Hollywood, I can imagine Ethan
Hawk has seen things that he never wants to talk
about again, most likely. But you know, we talk about
the editing, we've talked about the performances obviously for the
two main characters. But there is the cinematography there, you know,
and this is shot Bymorrow Fiore. If I mispronounce his name,
(31:06):
I apologize. But he went on after this to win
the Academy Award for Best Cinematography for Avatar, which you
can debate up and down about virtual environments and cinematography
and stuff like that, and praise the trailblazing work of
David Tattersall all that you want to. But Darren, in
terms of the way this film is shot, you'd mentioned
(31:29):
how you know you can see beginning, middle end in.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Terms of a day.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Do you think that the way that it's shot is successful?
Did it invest you in the movie? Did you believe
in the surroundings. You're the one that's closer to La
than I am. There's no rain in this one, no
contant rain in La this time.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
That was it didn't take me out. No, I mean
this that's the thing is, it's it's meant to be
La the movie city, Like I don't think we go
by a single recognizable land at all, Like this is
the part of the town that it looks the same
from satellite image of any other part, like it's just
(32:08):
part of La like and so that was great. I think,
you know, you know, I'm easy to please. John. The
nighttime shots had a moon or something that lit it up.
I could see where everything was. I'm happy.
Speaker 6 (32:20):
That's all. That's all I really want. But no, it looked,
it looked great.
Speaker 7 (32:25):
It I love the you know, I keep going with
the shotgun scene, but the you know, the scene in
his house, I think that for me is the best
visual because that room, it's like a single room and
they draw the blinds and like, and he's sitting in
the chair in the middle like that that was the
(32:45):
set piece really of the entire movie. Like there are
other set pieces obviously, but they're like places we visit
or walk through. We spent time here, you know, we
come here twice, And I think it just that is
I think the greatest visual signature of the movie, beside
the car, you know, would be you know, his his house,
(33:07):
like it's I remember it.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
So Tristan same note to you. Do you agree with
Darren that that the quote unquote first shotgun scene, let's
say it that way with Sandman. Is that the scene
visually for this or is there another one that you
would point to.
Speaker 4 (33:25):
I think most people remember the climax when he's in
the neighborhood, surrounded by everybody. It's the middle of the night.
He's been shot in the butt by Jake, and he's
screaming and he's like he's just like he's calling he's
a calling people disloyal, and no one's listened to listening
to him like they used to. I think that is
(33:47):
the scene that people think about when they think training day.
And actually, I need to give a I need to
give a shout out to a friend of mine, Aaron,
who's who's listening to this episode.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
This is his first episode that he's listening house Lights.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
Good, Good to meet you.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
I was at a cookout and someone mentioned like, oh, yeah,
Trissen does podcasting, and then I was like, oh crap,
the real world is crashing in. He immediately brought it
up on his phone. He brought up House Lights and
he started scrolling through and he just started listing off
all these names of all these movies.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
He's like, oh my god, as all pull fiction. Okay, yeah,
totally all right, yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
But you'll never hear any discussion my association.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
But he asked me, he said, he's like, what are
you doing next? And he's like, well, actually, tonight, I'm
I'm I'm recording Training Day.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
And he's like, oh my god, Training Day and he
just starts quoting it.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
He starts talking about the scene that I just mentioned,
the climax of the film and everything like that. He's like,
I'm going to listen. I'm absolutely going to listen. And
so he's subscribed. And because he loves Training Day that much.
And we've never talked about movies before, we never talked
about Training Day, but that's what hooked him. He's like,
this movie is still in people's consciousness decades later.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
It absolutely is. I think that.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I think the film is very well photographed overall. I
think that Darren, to your point, I can see everything
at night. I love that you keep returning to that.
It fills me with joy because it is a nice
thing to be able to see everything that's going on.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
Set At times forgets this lesson and I will call
them on it.
Speaker 6 (35:23):
Every time.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
I know, I know, looking at you the Revenant, but
we have this thing where whoa, whoa just teasing, I'm
just teasing. I love the film. I gave it five stars.
Calm down, don't come at me, don't come at me.
It's okay, settle, settle hey. I even loved Gibson's trailblazing
work with Apocalypto, with using as much natural light as
(35:45):
possible in the jungle scenes and everything like that so
that he wouldn't disturb the foliage and stuff. So I
got you, I got you anyway we detour there. But
in terms of the way that it's shot, Darren, and
I agree with you. Visually that scene, for whatever reason,
where they have Sandman dead to rights and he's not
understanding that his life is about to end. He's laughing
(36:08):
about it. He's like, okay, oh hey, great, oh hey,
why don't you do it?
Speaker 5 (36:12):
Son?
Speaker 6 (36:12):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yeah, Like that is the thing where visually, yes, I
think that is a brilliant scene, the way that it's
shot and the way that it looks. But for me,
the confluence of the photography, the camera placement, and the
editing everything comes together perfectly is the scene that made
(36:33):
me sweat the first time I watched this film, which
is the poker scene is for me, that's the calling
card of everything coming together right in this film. That
is the lynchpin. I honestly think that is a scene
that immediately elevates everything about the movie. We've all seen
the corrupt cop story, We've seen the rookie trying to
make the tough decision story, We've seen all these sorts
(36:55):
of things. That scene, in specific, that's the moment where
there was some in my little lizard brain that went,
I'm never going to forget this for the rest of
my life. I remember watching it for the first time,
and I'm not kidding. My palms started sweating. The minute
that Ethan Hawk realized what had happened.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
I was like, because I was.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Looking around, Darren you talk about I want the character
to get out, I was sitting there in my brain
going there's, oh my god, there's no way out of this.
I'm like, I've I've been in situations not at all
like this, but similar in the sense of I had
to get out of there for various safety reasons, and
I Ethan Hawk nails that scene and the way that
(37:37):
the camera is placed nails that scene because it makes
the right decision of how close in to be everybody
to bring the right amount of menace to everything. So visually,
I think that's really the scene that works best.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
So with that scene, one thing that I loved to
find out about is so they filmed it, they took
they took their time with it. They spent a lot
of time filming scene, and you know, going back on
it and like watching it a couple of times, you
realize that you can hear the sound of Alonso's car
driving away early on in the scene, like you actually
(38:10):
you realize that before you see it. And also one
thing behind the scenes is that Ethan Hawk knew his
lines obviously, but he didn't know all of the other
guys's lines. Fuquag helped it a secret. And he also
didn't know what the other guys were going to do.
So like when a Cliff Curtis takes his gun and
(38:33):
then tosses it to Raymond Cruz, like he like he's
about to give it to Ethan Hawk, but then he
tosses it at the last second. Hawk didn't know that
was going to happen, And so they know that they're
toying with Hawk the actor in the same way that
they're toying with with Jake the character. And I think
that that shows a really great insight into Fuqua's ability
(38:57):
to work with people and working with actors, because there's
a lot of great directors who don't work well with actors,
who are just like great, great at driving, plot, great
visual directors, great production designers, but you know, there's a
lot of people who just don't understand or respect the
acting experience. And I think that's one of those times
when Fuquah really shined was in that scene. And also
(39:20):
it's so funny seeing Cliff Curtis by Avato like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, you know, I think that there is I think
Cliff Curtis though really there are moments, there are decisions
shots that they show of him where you see him
looking at the phone, and especially the second time you
watch the film, you're like, oh wow, because like you
see that he's looking at the phone and he just
got the go ahead, okay, I'm driving off, take care
(39:46):
of it. He's like okay, okay, like you, and you
see him looking at Hawk making the decision, well, when
are we going to make our move with this guy?
How much fun are we going to have with this?
And it's you know, and you suddenly piece together the
counting the money. You know, when he tells her to
go off and count the money, it's because he wants
to make sure Alonso made the right payment for what's
about to happen. And it's like, ah, like it's so
(40:09):
well well done overall, top to bottom well.
Speaker 7 (40:13):
And like I mentioned in the beginning, where Alonso is
is so one step ahead through most of this, this
scene is like a little microcosm of that. And I
love when the shoe drops and you realize the game
with the gun is to get him disarmed, and they
do like I love me a smart villain and those
(40:35):
you know, those men like just the whole like, oh,
let me see it. And obviously he's not going to
hand him a loaded gun, so he unloads it and
takes it out of the chamber and gets it to him,
and now he's even if he could grab.
Speaker 6 (40:45):
His gun, it can't do anything.
Speaker 7 (40:48):
And that moment you see it hit his eyes where
he realizes, oh, I'm in so much trouble.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Right when the guy asked for the gun, he should
have just pulled it and just started shooting randomly, just
like right, that was his only chance, that was his
one chance. But then it all comes together. And this
is where I give credit to the writing, because it's
so easy for it to come across when an earlier
action in the script pays off and you're like, oh, well,
(41:17):
you just did that because writing school said you're supposed
to do that, and instead the scene where you know,
they grab his wallet, No, I want to get his
wallet before you shoot him, because it's like, I don't
want blood all over the stuff.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Let me see what I can steal.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
And they they get the wallet, like and you realize
that Hawk's inherent good nature, his desire to do good
things is what saves his life.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Is such a.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Thing that you know he's going to win in the
end without it being trite. He's not given a magic
flaming sword to take Alonzo out. It's simply the fact
that you realize he is the good guy and I
need to root for him no matter what, no matter
how how magnetic Denzel has been before this point. But
(42:05):
in terms of you know, emotional resonance, score is so
key to it. But I think that if the score
of a film is key to the emotional resonance of something.
I don't necessarily think that Training Day is something where
I'm thinking of the score too much. Maybe I'm wrong,
maybe I'm not thinking of it.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
In the right way.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
But Mark Mancina does the score for Training Day and
he actually is a A. I think they phrase it
as a graduate of the Hans Zimmer School, which is
strange because I don't hear lots of drums in this,
so maybe maybe he only got a C.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
I don't know, no, no, no, I can hear it
in this ken I can.
Speaker 4 (42:45):
It's the you know, when you listen to the music,
it's very brooding, and I think it like it does, really,
I think it does. It's a lot like the cinematography,
where it doesn't insist upon itself, where it's it doesn't
make you aware of itself very easily, but you know
it's there because it does its job. Like you, you're
(43:06):
unaware of it because it does its job. And with
this music particular, it's very brooding. It has this really
nice tension and unease to it, which is very much
Zimmer later in life. I think later in his career
he gets really into the tension building and the and
the uneasiness I feel like it has a kind of
a gritty atmosphere to it. It's really moody, and he
(43:31):
also mixes in some hip hop elements here and there,
and you don't really notice it, but it's there if
you are paying attention for it.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
Maybe that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Maybe it's too successful at blending it.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
It might be.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
It might be because I have to. I had to
really this is not a score that is in your face,
but I had to really really pay attention to just
the score while watching it in preparation for this podcast
in order to get that opinion.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That's I mean, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
I mean, Darren, do you do you share that opinion
that it's like if you if you isolate the score
and actually pay attention to it, you understand what's happening.
And I should just go back and sort of like
try to get my head around it again.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
Yeah, it's I mean, scores they kind of fall into
a couple different categories, and this one is definitely it's there.
It does its job, It connects with the emotional moments.
It's not like, oh, why'd they play that in that
key dramatic moment It's was so jarring, But I couldn't
hum you a bar you know, of anything.
Speaker 6 (44:32):
From it, which isn't bad.
Speaker 7 (44:34):
It's I mean that is more akin to a Williams
score or some sort of score that has a a
theme that are connected to characters. This is not that
kind of score, which again isn't bad. It's just a
different way of resonating. I think it's harder for this
type of score to be memorable in the traditional sense.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Okay, it's not the rock.
Speaker 6 (44:57):
It doesn't have a you know, d D like a motif.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Right, Okay, I mean that's fair.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
I think that we talk about it from time to
time where it's like sometimes the score blends in and
so it's not a score you listen to, but it's
a score that actually elevates the work. And so maybe
that's just a thing where my ear wasn't picking up
on it because it was what the film needed as
opposed to keep in mind that the vein in which
(45:28):
I'm offering this the you know, it's not like a
John Williams score where it's like, oh, I'm gonna run
out and buy the soundtrack and listen to Jurassic Park
all day, Like, this isn't that type of thing.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Although there are some absolutely prime.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Choices of music on this soundtrack that are wonderful, wonderful works.
But you know, as we as we wrap this up,
I gotta know there was a sequel, I'm sorry, a
prequel rumor to be in development, or it might still
be in development for this Following a Young Alonzo, And
(46:01):
I have to know, Tristan, would you buy a ticket
to go see Training Day day of the Riot Following
a Young Alonzo where it starts two days before the
Rodney King verdict in La. Would you sign up to
watch that? Or do you think Training Day is a
movie that should just be left alone and let's not
come back to it.
Speaker 4 (46:24):
Like if I was in a point of decision, Like
if I was a decision maker, I'd say, no, let's
leave it alone. But if they made it, yeah, I'd
watch it. Like I wouldn't walk away from it. I
wouldn't say like, oh god never, no Training Day is sacred,
but I would. I would watch it and see what
they did with it. But I have a feeling that
it's one of those things where like we can imagine
(46:45):
where things went wrong with Alonzo, we can figure that out,
you know, we can understand that it was he just
spent too long on the job. He'd absolutely just spent
too long on the job.
Speaker 5 (46:54):
And this might.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Don't this is not a one to one and this
is absolute hyperbole, so don't don't take this too crazy.
But it's kind of like how you don't want to
know the Joker's background, Like you don't always want to
know where he comes from, Like sometimes you just need
evil to be evil, or you know, like the more
in Titus Andronicus. You know, like sometimes there are beings
that are just evil and faustian, like you talked about.
(47:21):
And also before we move on, I need to mention
this is that because it's so easy to miss is
that when they kill Roger and then you know, like
we we have that great music where we isolate on
Jake and he's kind of staring at Alonzo and it's
a little bit in slow motion and we're just trying
to He's just trying to figure out what to do next.
He's like, good Lord, how did I get myself into this?
(47:44):
When Alonzo's in the car and he calls for Jake
to come over and get into the car, he's staring
Jake down. He is making eye contact with Jake and
Alonso is on the phone and says, just make sure
the bathtub's clean.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Okay, yes, I caught that this time. Yes, it's an amazing,
chilling moment.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Chilling chilling moment.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
It's just something that you completely miss.
Speaker 4 (48:07):
You're just like, okay, whatever the hell that means, and
you don't always make that connection. But it's just like,
That's one thing I really like about this movie is
that the late like when he says, he's like, this
is check this is chess, this is not Checkers.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
Yeah, and you you believe Alonzo because Denzel gives so
much to it anyway.
Speaker 7 (48:24):
And that was one question I wanted to pose to
either of you. Was and and maybe it's clear in
the in the movie, but I was trying to think
about it after the fact of was Alonzo always planning
to burn Jake or was there ever a moment when
if he had taken the shot he would have come
(48:46):
into the inner circle? Or or was it really from
the get go he was set up as the fall guy,
Like I don't know, it feels like he doesn't do
this often, bringing people into the circle, and it's like
why now, why this? Because I raise money troubles. You know,
he's trying to he's on a deadline. He's got to
(49:07):
get that money by tonight.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
I think that if Jake had pulled the trigger, Alonso
would not have set him up.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
I think took the money. Oh yeah, taking the money
is key.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But arguably if Jake pulled the trigger, that's the kind
of guy who takes the money, you know, like both
of those tumblers line up to unlock that for sure.
I'll throw out there that there is a movie it's not.
I don't recall it as a terrific movie, but it's
a worthwhile movie also written by David Ayr. Because we're
(49:41):
talking about a Training Day prequel that's set two days
before the LA riots about the Rodney King verdict. There
is a David Arrow David Ayer written movie starring Kurt
Russell called Dark Blue that has to do with corrupt
LAPD stuff going on in that time period. So I
think that's worth checking out. Not a great film, I'm
(50:05):
putting that qualifier all over it, but of course it's
a Kurt Russell movie, so of course I watched it.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
So but did you guys watch topic? Did you guys
watch Training Day? The TV?
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Show goodness.
Speaker 6 (50:16):
No, I did not know about it until I looked
it up.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
But yeah, it's had Bill Paxon in it. I never
watched it.
Speaker 6 (50:24):
I was one season, thirteen episodes. I don't think it.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
Yeah it was. It was a mid season replacement. The
concept doesn't work. It just doesn't like that. This is Yeah. No,
that's setting aside prequel and sequel considerations. A TV series
Space Respace is just misguided at best. So but all
of that said, I think that we've had a lot
of praise. So here as we give our final thoughts,
(50:50):
I'll give all of us a chance to offer any
negative comments we might have about training day to alienate
Tristan's friend who's listening for the first time. So I
will this you know, to you first, Darren, because we
love to pick on you, and this is your first viewing.
Well wait a minute, it's the first viewing. You should
go last, shouldn't you. Yes, Darren'll go last because it's
(51:11):
his first viewing. I'll go first because I'm gonna be boring.
Five star movie. It's a in terms of how it's written.
It's a four star movie. It is elevated by the performances,
and I think the direction. This is a five star film.
I've loved it since the moment I watched it. I
consider it incredibly compelling. When I first started rewatching it,
(51:33):
I was like, Okay, I've only got an hour on
a morning. I'm just gonna watch half of this. I've
seen it before, couldn't stop, just kept going through. It's
a five star film for me, Tristan, your next five stars.
Speaker 4 (51:45):
This is this is one of the greats, Like, this
is something that has really tapped in to the consciousness
and people will always remember this as one of Denzel's
finest performances. And it's there's a reason why he won
the Oscar And this was a huge upod because everyone
thought that Russell Crowe was going to win for a
Beautiful Mind, and it was well deserved. And even though
(52:08):
Beautiful Mind is a good movie, Denzel absolutely deserved it.
This year, I think that ethanok was robbed because like
no one, I mean Broadbent, Jim Brombert is a fantastic actor.
Don't want to take anything away from him, but the
movie iris no one saw it and no one has
seen it since.
Speaker 5 (52:27):
I'm sorry, but it's just it did not tap.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
Into the cultural consciousness, like Training Day, And I know
you have to judge it on an individual basis, on
individual performances, but this is one of those times when
you know.
Speaker 5 (52:43):
And also Fuquah doesn't get enough credit.
Speaker 4 (52:45):
I agree, you know, like because because like when when
when a performer does a great job, like oh, that
actor is fantastic, and when it happened in a vacuum,
like yeah, and and like and if a good performer
does a bad job, it's like terrible direct terrible directing,
and so they only get the negative, never the positive.
And I wish that fuqua was was nominated for this one.
Speaker 5 (53:09):
I really do.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
It was such a wonderful job directing because he's he's
the one who helped to bring it all together. An
air script was super solid. And I have enjoyed other
things of his works and not everything, obviously, because there's
been a few things where you're like okay, but it's
he definitely has a voice and it comes through And
(53:31):
I cannot wait until next week to figure out to
see this pairing again.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, so Darren, you're the first viewing. What is your
rating of your first viewing of Trading Day?
Speaker 7 (53:44):
Yeah, I wanted to check on Fuquah for a second,
because I know we jumped over bait, which oh man,
fifteen million box office.
Speaker 6 (53:52):
Yeah, that's a skip, but.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
I wanted to see okay, So this was really where
it came together for him, you know, act directing story
like just boom boom, boom boom. It's a five for sure.
I really enjoyed it. It's watchable, and I want to
look for the clues he placed in, you know, like
(54:16):
you said, like is the battub clean? You know, things
like that that are woven throughout the story. Not that
all movies have to have that, but when a director
is that intentional, when a script is that tight, it's
really a joy to watch again, and it happens far
too infrequently for what we should be getting in cinema.
Speaker 6 (54:36):
So, and like you.
Speaker 7 (54:37):
Said, John, So five across the board and we are
going to jump forward for our next pairing of Denzel Washington.
We're going to go on another Denzel Washington trip. Gentlemen,
It's going to be a fun time. As next week
we cover the Equalizer from twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Here on house Lights, Join the Revolution, Join the net
Car Team, Yam
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