August 14, 2025 • 51 mins
Spike Jonze’s 2009 film Where the Wild Things Are is an ambitious adaptation of Maurice Sendak’s classic children’s book, but despite its stunning visuals and unique atmosphere, it struggles to capture the warmth and timeless charm of the original story. Billed as a family movie, this fantasy-drama often feels more like an indie art film, leaving many viewers, especially younger audiences, confused, restless, or disappointed.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back to house Lights, our director discussion show here
on the Nerd Party Network. This week, we're continuing the
House of Jones with Spike jones third film, Where the
Wild Things Are from two thousand and nine, with five
times as normal budget and extensive exterior shots. Will this
film capture the wonder of the nineteen sixty three children's
(00:41):
book only? The marketing team and test audience will tell.
I'm Darren motion tracker Boser, and I'm joined again by
my friend's giant twig structure architect John Mills and child
trauma specialist Tristan Riddell. Where are fantasies sales? Take us
(01:01):
on this edition of house Lights? Yeah, this movie. I
mean we often have this question at the very beginning
of have you seen it before? And I'm really glad
that we have some of us that have and some
of us that haven't, because being O nine, being sixteen
years ago, the special effects, the where we were in
(01:23):
our lives. This is definitely one of those movies. I
think that if you watch when it came out, versus
watching with kids, versus watching when you're older, I think
we'll have a play in that and we'll find out.
So John, I'm going to pick on you first. So
this was your first.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Time watching Where the Wild Things Are? Were you? Did
you know of the book?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Did you have the Newberry Award winning copy or which draper?
I'm sure I had won one of those awards.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
It is not something that I grew up with. I
was aware of the book. I read it before, and
by the time I read it, it was like, eh, okay,
just like you know, everybody's always like they go on
about Disney, and I'm like, I wasn't a Disney family either,
so like people like Wax nostalgic about like old school Disney,
and I'm like it existed, sure, right, so I had.
(02:13):
I wasn't terribly familiar with the book. I was familiar enough.
I worked in a toy store where we sold it
as well, so you would leave through it during slow time.
Sometimes it's like, oh, that's cool artwork. But when this
came out I wanted to see it. I was just
too busy at the time because I had two very
young children at the time, and so it just wasn't
(02:36):
in the cards. And as I recall, like, there was
a there was a good marketing Push. There was a
huge nostalgia wave going along with it. A lot of
people were very stoked for it, and I but I
was excited because I was like, oh, this looks like
something really like a fresh take on something from Spike Jones,
whose previous two movies I at least enjoyed. And so
(02:59):
it's like, okay, I'll give a crack at this, but
I just never got around to it till now.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
So yay, podcast homework.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Exactly well, and this will be interesting when we get
onto the visuals, because I mean as much nostalgia can
be attached to this book. I mean it's thirteen sentences
and he somehow drafted that into one hundred plus page
you know story treatment. But Tristan, you saw this in
(03:26):
theaters or was it a rental?
Speaker 6 (03:29):
I didn't see this in theaters. I did see it
when it came to video. Okay, pretty much as soon
as it came out. I saw this on video. I
had my best man at my wedding. He was all
about this movie. He was screaming its singing, its praises,
and I'll also screaming it, and so he's like, you
have to watch this because he was ashamed of me
(03:50):
for not seeing it in theater, and so as soon
as it came out on video, he said, he's a
go rent to go get it right now, and I did,
and I have not seen it since. So last time
I saw it was in nine or ten or whenever
it came out on the video.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, Well, to round out are trifecta. I saw this
in theaters. I remember the trailer coming up, and again
it's it's a children's book.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Made into a movie. I mean, we were.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just waxing about Harold in Purple Cryan and there are
there's certain only nostalgic can only go so far. Like
it is a children's book. It is a small thing
you are extrapolating out. Or I think of the Polar
Express maybe another good example of a book that is
very short and they are able to stretch it out
(04:37):
through various songs and dance, because otherwise it would be
fifteen minutes long. So with this one, while its core
is the story of Max, and you know, hits all
the main beats, we get the main lines and all
of that. For this movie, I really wanted to see
it for the creature work, for the visuals, and you know,
(05:00):
I mean jumping into to that aspect. This was the
creatures were made by Jim Henson Creature Shop, and we
were talking about nine a second ago, and I apparently
end the hangover. They also did the tiger that was
I don't know if I've never seen the hangover, so
I'm assuming it's in a car somewhere and pops up,
and so they did the creature work for that as well.
(05:22):
But in this one, you know, I think we could
all place bets that if they were making it today,
it would be one hundred percent CGI and probably suffer
for it. But for this one, they had full body
creature effects and then they did post processing with visual
effects on the faces and eyes to push around the
(05:44):
pixels and you know, add blinking and lines of sight
and try to pull a performance out of a still face.
So so, John, when you first saw this, did did
that hold up for something that is sixteen years old?
Did you kind of start to see the swash and
(06:04):
stretch and it looked like photoshop had kind of been
pulled in a little bit, because I noticed that a
little more of this viewing than I did back you know, nine.
But how did it come across? Did you feel captured
in that real world.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I think that on the whole, the work on the
faces is incredibly strong and holds up because there's something
to be said for subtlety, and I think there was
some subtlety at play. I think that there are certain
things where the lighting helps it as well. There are
inevitably on any show there's going to be something where
(06:39):
it doesn't quite hit the mark, and so yeah, there
were a couple of times where it just doesn't move
the way it's supposed to, quote unquote. But on the whole, yeah,
I think that the face work was great. I think
that the idea to keep them all practical suits was
great because it gave them the opportunity to focus on
the face work. Had they done these particular killer creatures
(07:00):
fully CG, there's no way you would have gotten the
breeze blowing the fringes of the.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Fur right, especially ten feet away, they look real.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah, it never ever, ever would have worked because of
that fringey feel on the side. And I think that
so I think that, I mean Jones showed in his
previous two movies that he knows how to handle special effects,
so I would be confident if somebody came to me
and they said, oh, this is what Spike Jones wants
to do, I would actually be confident. I'd say, oh, okay, well,
(07:32):
I know he can. He's a likely one to pull
this off. I wonder, actually it probably goes back to
his video days, because they would do they would put
in music video and such. Yeah, music videos, they would
put in those types of special effects. So he probably
had a very good sense of what the camera could
do in conjunction with But I think it holds up
(07:56):
very very well in terms of some of the stuff
that doesn't hold up as well. Sometimes I wonder when
I watch stuff on you know, the TV that I have,
or that anybody has, I think there's something to be
said for when it's presented in the big theater. I
think that they design the effects for that format, and
(08:18):
I really think that shrinking it down there, no matter
how good you remaster it, it's not going to look
as good as its intended format.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Like I can.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I can look at a beautiful painting, like a Renaissance painting,
but if I shrink it down to my TV screen
by you know, one of the Dutch masters, it's never
going to look quite the same. There's so much that
goes into the larger presentation and shrinking it down. I
just think that there's no way you can't expose some
(08:50):
of the flaws you would normally miss well.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And this is a movie, you know, like so, just
in talking about the kind of the cinematography of it,
for a moment, there are it does not shy away
from wide shots, from expansive you know, our characters are
tiny in the frames at times, but it it's this
wild edge of fantasy world where it's a forest and
(09:14):
there's creatures and stuff. But like it visually, does this
fit this kind of I don't want to say on
Canny Valley, but it's right there in the middle of
you feel the fantasy of it, but it's rooted so
rooted in the trees and the dirt and the rocks
(09:35):
and the sand and the water where it feels real.
Did this visually you know? And cinema, you know, with
the cinematography kind of take you on that journey? Did
you feel taken?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
I think the cinematography was was best suited for the
story that he wanted to tell. I think this is
definitely a Spike Jones film, and it looks like it.
It feels like it. I think that it was. It
was nice to see that the visual language of the
(10:09):
movie was incredibly different from adaptation and being John Malkovich,
but you could still tell it's a Spike Jones film.
But I think that's I think that shows his confidence
as a director where he can mess around with the
style while still having his imprint on it. And so
(10:30):
I feel like, you know, I love the mixture of
the forest and the desert and the island scenes and
things like that where it's all like beaches and whatnot.
It felt really mythical in where they just all of
a sudden they were surrounded by dunes, and I think
you if you're going to showcase that kind of landscape,
(10:51):
you have to shoot the landscape, and so you need
wide shots. And I think that was It would be
a disservice just to show close ups or even mediums
when you're trying to have this expansive world within worlds.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
No, I definitely agree. I mean, you were stating that
this feels like a Spike Jones movie. You see his
fingerprints on it. John with the story, with the treatment
of pulling this these thirteen sentences out.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Did it?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
How did you feel when first watching it for the
real world part and the framing, you know, the beginning
and the end with the mom and you know the
I think I've heard a lot of people remark on
this movie of oh, this really captured the feeling of childhood,
And I'm like, maybe some people's childhood. I don't know
if necessarily my childhood, but but how did those framing
(11:47):
devices literally the beginning and the end kind of work
for you or not?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
They didn't work for me. Honestly, there's definitely a layer
of you can even though it never outwardly states there,
there's a very gen X feel to this kid's childhood,
that that sort of mythical, more feral lifestyle that we
supposedly all had in gen X. And it's like, I'm
a gen x Er, trust me, guys. It's they make
(12:15):
so much of it like it's anyway, I think that
the movie started off very much on the wrong foot
with me, really on the wrong foot with me by
starting with the way he was chasing the dog around,
because my immediately, thank you, I'm glad I'm not alone.
(12:35):
Because the way he man handles that dog two things.
One that's like that's abuse of that dog, and two,
no dog on the face of the planet. No matter
how much that dog loves their their owner, that dog
is going to eat his face. Because it was just
obscene the way that And I know that seems silly
(12:57):
to fixate on, but I really fixated on it to
the point where I was trying to dissociate, to the
point where I saw him running and he had a
fork in his hand, and I'm like, you're running around
with a fork in your hand, jumping down the steps.
What well like to win too far with him? They
went too far to be fair.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
In the book, he's the opening scene, he's running down
the stairs chasing a dog holding a fork, and so
that's why they put that in there. But I understand
that they did the homage that they're saying like, oh, yeah,
this is like the book, but there are different ways
to show wrestling with your dog, and this was not
wrestling with your dog. This was abusing your dog. And
(13:37):
so from that moment on, I didn't give a crap
about Max. It's just I was just like, oh, okay,
you know, he deserves whatever's coming toward to him. But
then again, you know, like Jones was able to bring
me back in like when his Igloo was smashed and
everything like that, he starts crying, you feel that, you
feel that intensely. But then when he lashes out, you're
(13:59):
just like, oh, that's right, that's the psycho you know,
that's the that's the psychotic break.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And I but but see that, you know, I really
want to go to that too, because this is this
is one of those things where the delicate line you
have to walk is Max is supposed to be wild
but but sympathetic. There you go, he he's not sympathetic.
Do I feel bad for the kid that is Igloo
gets smashed, Yes, but then that is framed by things
(14:27):
where I feel no sympathy for him because he's he's
actually being cruel and it's like I can't I you know,
I honestly from the from that very first opening, I
just couldn't connect. I didn't allow myself to connect. And
I think I think it's a miscalculation from Jones.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
No, I I agree.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The the Igloo scene, I think is the is the
most powerful moment, and it's acted superbly, Like you feel
like the look on his face and the sound he
makes when he's like kind of suffocating you're like, oh,
we've all been there when we overestimated the fun and
it bit us and then they're building that into you know,
(15:11):
him and his sister and that relationship. So that moment
was great. The whole opening framing could have been half
the time. I mean, we're trying to stretch this movie,
but uh it. But yeah, as far as the sympatheticness
of the main character, it's almost like we made a
movie about Sid from Toy Story and we really want
(15:32):
you to care about him. No you you don't.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
That's he's your.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Poll story, Like I would never like, Yeah, we see
him in a shot and Toy Story three and he's
grown up in a garbage man and you're like, that's
all I need of him.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I don't need to see that character again.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I know what kind of person he is, so yeah,
it I think for me, I felt the same, a
bit of disconnection from Max.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But I do.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Appreciate what they are trying to set up because you
with I won't go so far as saying they need
that set up to make the Island parts pay off,
but you do see them in a weave. The way
he's talking to the wild things, and the rawness of
emotion and conflict and doubt and fear, like it very
(16:24):
much is tied into things that Max is going through.
Could that have been better in the first act probably,
but you know, let's get to the wild Things. And
we have an amazing voice cast in this like and
I mean it's so fun. One of my favorite things
(16:44):
in House Lights as we go through a director's series
is seeing when actors continually pop up and you're like, oh,
I know why they work together now because they worked
on that, and they worked on that and they know
they could handle this. So James Gann, Oh my gosh,
as Carol, the lead wild Thing. Every word he said,
(17:07):
I was captivated. He delivered it in I mean, all
the wild Things talk in this simplistic kind of childish way,
and it's almost kind of a nerving because it's like
these like it's like kids in adults' bodies, Like there's
something off about it that you can't quite put your
(17:28):
finger on. So so his you know, his part coming through,
we have you know, Chris Cooper as as Douglas the Cockatoo,
I almost a standout character. Like every moment he was
on screen, I'm like, more more Douglas.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And then he loses his arm.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But but what what to you, Tristan, did you have
a favorite voice cast? Apparently they were went around as
Forrest Whittaker.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
Forest Whitakers. I freaking love Force Whitaker in everything he does,
and I just the there was a moment where I
lost it. It's like, hu, i'm o u.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I make the holes in the trees.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
You you might have seen it, like just just that
just that tail end, that that that trail off of
You might have seen them, like it's just like like
do you know my work? You know, like it's like
it's setting you a business card, I mean. And and
of course Catherine Rahera, you know, like really really brought it,
like she understood what she needed to do and she
(18:26):
did it. And you can also really tell that this
that they were all filmed together, like the voice cast was,
it was filmed, it was it was recorded like they
like a Fantastic Mister Fox with Wes Anderson where that
cast was together acting it out and so that way
you could get that energy of them together. So they
(18:47):
all like went to some park and actually did a
mud fight like while they were being recorded.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, no, you you definitely feel that it doesn't feel
like all the behind the scene of Pixar movies where
they're all in the booth and they've got one hand
on the you know, the your piece. This it had
a vibrancy to it. Honestly, I will admit Judith the
three horned Lion, she scares me. She's like the one
(19:18):
that that creature design. I don't know something about it.
And the way she talks, I'm like, she is gonna
rip your face off, like she could maybe in a moment,
like I don't know, I would say if I was
on the island, I would say as far away from
her as I could. But but John, what what wild thing,
either performance or scare factor got under your skin? Uh?
Speaker 4 (19:44):
You know, I'll be honest, it's because of that opening.
You know, I can give credit to the cast. I acknowledge,
Like I'll just go ahead and say it, like basically,
when you come to me, it's essentially gonna be. This
is a film that full of great technique in search
of a film to match it. And I think that
(20:06):
as a result, I only looked at these creatures as effects,
real creatures. The voice work became secondary as a result.
I agree Gandalfini's great.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I like, I can.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I can listen to each of them and I can
say they did good, they did they do thing well
is effective, but it suppressed my reaction to any of them,
like I want, Like there was a part of you
where it was like, oh, I wanted to love Chris
Cooper's performance, but I had backed away so hard, so
(20:41):
I by default, I'll go ahead and give Chris Crooper
the prize.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
There, Okay, are you saying you felt like the.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Voice acting versus the suit acting felt kind of disjointed,
Like it almost felt like you feel the two people
creating the character or oh no, he just Max kind
of spoiled it from the get go and you were
trying to dig out of a hole from act to yes.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
And so I looked at it purely from a technical standpoint.
So from a technical standpoint, yeah, I think that the
way that Jones records them and the type of performances
they gave brought the suits alive in that final that
final way that they needed to, like everything came together,
And I think that it can't be overstated how important
(21:26):
those voice performances were to the creature work working in
the first place. Like, you know, since we know it
was you know, Henson's workshop to put it together. It's
one of those things where you know, a big bird
doesn't work without big Bird's voice.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
It's that type of subtlety to it.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
And I think that Jones understood that that you needed
that person to believe that they were that character. And so, like,
I guess that's the the praise that I'll give the
voice acting is it didn't feel like they were voice acting.
It felt like they were performing a role. And that's
that's the important distinction.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, you had a group of very talented, award winning
actors delivering a very nuanced voice performance and that got
paired with like the best of the best creature works.
And you know, unfortunately, I think we're all kind of
consensusing that that unfortunately was bookended in a sour taste.
(22:27):
But once we're on the island, we can appreciate that,
but it does have to live within the wrapper of
the framing device.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We got the.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Highest praise I could give the creature and voice work
is the only other thing that springs to mind where
it blended this well, and specifically you know, puppetry, creature
work and CG. And voice work was the Dark Crystal
series that Netflix only gave us one season of, which
is an absolutely if you haven't watched it, everybody go
(22:56):
watch it. It's an absolute master work. Is approaching that
level though, So that's that's the highest praise.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
I can give it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
All, Right, Just what were your thoughts on on the
like we were saying about the rapper and the voice
work and all that.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Oh I had something.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Oh I did?
Speaker 6 (23:14):
I did have somebody to say. It's just because we're
talking about the book ends and everything like that, and
there were there were things, there were things I liked
and things I didn't. But you know, Darren, like you
talked about where one thing I did appreciate was the
struggles that he went through were mirrored on the island,
and I think that was that was done very well
from a storytelling standpoint. That was done very well because
(23:36):
you can you can track his growth from that perspective,
like you're like, oh, he's interacting with Carol the way
that he interacted with with this, or he's interacting with Judith,
or Judith is interacting with him the way that he
interacted with them, you know, like that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And so it's you need that.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Wouldn't been aspactful without the symmetry, right, you need, you
need the you need something to grow off of, I think,
and that did this very well. And there was there's
one scene that I think was done perfectly at the beginning,
like I have, I have my struggles with everything in
the real world, almost everything. But one thing that I
think that was done very well was that scene where
(24:17):
Catherine Keener is on the phone, uh and she's working
at her computer and Max is like doing the robot
you know, around her, like trying to make her laugh,
and then you know, falls to the ground and he
starts playing with her pantyhose on her toes, just kind
of like pulling in.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
A little bit.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
It was it was such a real moment. It was
it was so it was such a great encapsulation of
childhood and being that young and loving your mother and
just being wanting to be around her. And then like
you see that reciprocal love that they show her. They
show that she's not like there's there's no yeah, there's
(24:56):
no just an addition, right, She's not distant, She's there.
She even like types up his stories and you can
tell that they've done it a hundred times before, and
it's her way of, you know, still being able to
work but yet still interacting with him at the same time.
And so that I thought was beautifully crafted, which makes
it even more impactful for him to be a monster
(25:17):
and and act out because you know, like, yes, he
it's a he has a single parent home. But she's
not you know, she's.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Not spinning all the plates she's trying to get it.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
She's spinning all the places.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
She's doing what she can.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
No.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I agree, and and I mean.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
And how useless was that boyfriends as Mark Ruffalo like
when he pops and he's like, you can't literally treat
you like that. I was like, way to contribute to
the conversation, Mark.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Good job, good job, good job. You know.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm thinking back to the Island and how it's so funny.
I feel like sometimes, especially with effects heavy movies, directors
will be so excited with I can put the camera
everywhere that they put the camera where they shouldn't. And
I love how pretty much every single shot is on
(26:10):
the ground eye level, like it feels like a documentary
crew is following Max around. Everything is very even when
they're far away like our camera is on the ground,
and that made it feel very real where you didn't
know what was around the corner. You didn't sometimes like
(26:31):
they're building the big, you know fort, and you only
see part of it because it's so big it's not
even in frame. And and I love how I didn't
pick it up the first time watching this that when
he's sketching it out and the foot is there, so
he draws around it. And they actually build the little
tower with a hook in it, just like the blueprint,
(26:53):
because they did that's how he drew it, So that's
how they built it.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
And I was like, I didn't I didn't really catch that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But but I love the for lack of a better classification,
the childlike rambleness of the story meaning. And Max even
does this with his mom. This movie has this flow
of and then this happened, like it's like a child
(27:20):
is telling it to you, of Okay, we're gonna go
play a dirt cloud war and these are the rules,
and you're gonna go over here. Like and you notice
when you see a child's movie where they say that
there's no pronouns. Every every time they talk to another character,
it's the full name. It's kind of a simplistic way
(27:42):
of you know, that's why there's so memory, we can
remember everyone's name. But all that to say, I loved
the that kind of rambling aspect of it. Felt like
I was watching a movie, but instead Max was sitting
next to me just telling me about his adventure. And
it was of that kind kind of not polished, first draft,
(28:04):
flow free flow of a story coming out. I felt
like the whole movie was like that, you know, not ucomprehensible,
but it had a different flow. I think that he
was going for it. So so John, you said you
didn't catch this in theaters you had very young children.
(28:25):
One of the things that kind of came about with
this movie coming out was its reception and marketing it.
It sounded like they purposely were not trying to market
it as a kid's film, and they kind of were
aware up front of like, oh, this movie's a little darker,
it's a little scary, it's a little unsettling at times,
(28:47):
like they're wild things. They feel wild, like you're not
quite sure what they're going to do. So to all that,
to say, how heck would you market this movie? Because
I don't think they figured it quite out?
Speaker 4 (29:01):
I mean, I would just lean straight into the nostalgia
aspect and make it clear that it's like, listen, this
is a film for how you remember childhood or something
like that. I think that would get plenty of people
in and just.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
A young adult not kid.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well you know, by that point it is established parents
sort of thing. But like, I mean, you know, because
some of the criticism I I agree with where you know,
basically they're like, you know, they say, what can a
kid hang on to?
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Here?
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Like one of the one of the critics that cited
on Wikipedia talks about, you know, this is a film
full of adult ideas about childhood. So it's very much
somebody who's growing older looking back and saying, oh, I remember,
you know, let us ponder this thing that I tossed
aside as a child. And it's like that, I think
(29:55):
is what makes it incredibly difficult to access because I know,
I go into it, I'm thinking, okay, well, I'm familiar
with the source material. This is going to be something
that's designed to sort of tap into that child that's
in me that's still asking those questions and sort of
the beauty of those types of movies like Up From Pixar.
(30:17):
The stronger Pixar work is that it unlocks it in
adults and kids, because kids are asking the questions that
the Pixar movies we're asking and inside all of us.
You know, I'm not saying anything revolutionary here, but there
is still that little child that's still afraid and like
looking around and asking those questions every day. And it's
(30:38):
just we have a whole ton of experience put on
top of it. Now, maybe you know a you know,
rheumatic ankle that acts up every so often, but like
it is, I think that this is a movie that
cuts itself off because of that. And so I think
the only way you could have successfully marketed this would
to be like, look, this is for older people. This
(31:00):
isn't for your kids. This is for you to look
back on what it was like. You have the kids
stay at a sit or maybe or something like that.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Almost like the like the story came about not from
the book, but someone wrote a psych paper on the
effects of this, you know, children's story, and then they
turned that into a movie. And like you were saying, John,
of you know, when Pixar is at its best, you
have that kind of dual story of the surface layer story,
(31:29):
the kids get, the characters, the fun or maybe songs.
But there's so many things we as adults see and
can appreciate. This is like all of the latter and
none of the former. Like like you said, I mean,
I think you summed it up of what can a
kid connect with in this except for maybe they also
(31:50):
too had their igloo smashed and they also were sad
about that. But what did what did you think of
that aspect, Tristan, Like, I think we have a consent,
says of for visually telling where the wild things are.
This movie knocked it out of the park for translating
this book into something that people want to see it.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
It's it's a hit or miss.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
Yeah, this is an extremely difficult film to market, and
especially because of the direction that Jones took. And Jones
fought super hard to keep this type of direction, and
the studio, I mean, I think threatened at one time
to reshoot the entire seventy five million and be like, nope,
we're not releasing this, We're doing this over like that's
(32:38):
how bad it went. And so Jones had to go
back and say like, okay, well I'll change this in
this and but it keeps the tone and so I
don't even want to know. Yeah, what was what was
in Jones's first draft dark version?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
What was that? I don't know.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Yeah, And the sister.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Die at a car crash, and that was the last
time you ever saw is when he smashed But.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
The heart, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
Maybe, Oh, Man, that's that's crazy that that's what you
pulled out, because I feel like that's something that.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Could have happened.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
But John, I think you, I think you really nailed
it about how like if you look at a Pixar film,
which is funny because Lassiter is actually mentioned in this
in this movie, like the when she says, like, what
did mister Lester not like about the presentation or the
report or something like that, it's because Lassiter tried to
get this off the ground. And oh that's funny mixing
(33:29):
animation styles. And I think it died in the nineties
at Disney. And Uh, it's just like John, with what
you said about how there are Pixar movies that can
open up childhood that kids who are currently going through
it and adults can reminisce about it. This is not
one of those movies. And I think you nailed it,
where like, this is an adult view of what they
(33:51):
thought childhood was like. And you know, my view of
what childhood was like is a heck of a lot
different than what it actually was, because I got almost
forty years of baggage on it that comes with it.
And some of it's good, some of it's bad, some
of it's in the middle, but it's you know, you're
(34:11):
dealing with a lot of shame and nostalgia at the
same time. And so yeah, this one, it's because it's
a kid's book and that your protagonist is a kid.
But yet I wouldn't show this to my kids, not
because I don't think they can handle it, but just
because I think they'd be bored to tears.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I agree on that count. I know my kids would
have been like what they wouldn't have made it to
the whole thing.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
And and I think, I think, I know that we're
talking about the marketing, but I think that's my biggest
thing with this movie is that I was like, Yeah,
the voice acting is fantastic. The creature effects are are
top notch for the time. I think I think they
even hold up today. I really do. And this like
the cinematography the production design is all on point. It's
(34:56):
just I feel like Jones relied too heavily on his
music video Roots, and you have thirty minutes of content here. Yeah,
stretch to an hour, forty hour, fifty whatever it is.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Yeah, you know, since you mentioned the music video Roots,
I will say that something that caused chills to run
up and down my spine was actually the hipster music
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
That's true. The soundtrack is a thing.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Honestly grated on me, that whole like ethereal female voice over,
like the little like that sort of thing. If you
don't absolutely wrap that right in a movie, I'm going
to react violently to it. Like not in a literal
physical sense, but like internally I start to hate it.
Speaker 6 (35:52):
Because he was dating Karen O at the time.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
That's fine, that's fine, I'm good for it. I don't
know why it's the I know, good for him, I
you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
But like it's one of those things where it's like
it just rankles because it feels so lack of a
better term, it's feels so manipulative because it the whole
genre of music that sounds like that is about trying
to wistfully manipulate you into feeling a certain way, and
(36:24):
I don't, you know, I don't know. I think I
might have, like some that there's something with like oppositional
defiant disorder. And when I hear music like that, it's
triggered and I'm like, no, screw you, stop it.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
You're trying to manipulate me.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, no, I agree, there were For me, there were
parts with the music where I mean, at least it's
consistent throughout the whole thing, like it is very much
a tone. But yeah, this is kind of the type
of movie you need to kind of buckle up and
just really seep into the nuance. And that is not
(36:59):
a kid thing. They are, They are not built for that.
Maybe instead of focusing on I mean, I know it's
the wildness of Max, but you know, I mean, instead
focus on his imagination and his creativity. He's obviously a
very bright boy, very like you know, if he needs
the kid needs a notebook, if he had a notebook
(37:21):
that he was constantly drawing the wild things in and
making up little stories. And then he goes there and
we take five minutes and then we're there because he
wants to hide away after having a bad day great,
Like I think that would have you know, carried us
off right away.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Or even in all honesty, as much of a trope
as it is, have him be a kid that's not bad,
but like you could you know that the parent overreacts
where it's like, which is just calmed down for once
in your life, you know, like it hurts the kid's heart.
So he goes off and retreats to that spot and
(38:00):
like goes off and sort of like comes to an
understanding that you know, sometimes mom and.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Dad they're people too, and they overreact.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
And then he comes back and he's like, hey, I
figured out, Like I don't know, but that's just.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
A whole different film.
Speaker 6 (38:13):
Yeah, well, I mean the kid has to be wild
because you know, he has to be sent like sent
to his room without dinner kind of thing. Yeah, you know,
that's that's the premise.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
But you have to he has to be wild in
a Calvin and Hobbes sense where it's harmless wild, where
you can one understand how mom and dad get flustered
at times, but at the same time, when you know,
when Dad yells at him, you're like, come on, he's
just being a kid, you know, Like you've got to
sympathize with him. I know, I'm coming back to that again,
(38:46):
where it's like I think it is, it's just I
don't know why. You know, maybe it is just that
the people making the movie forgot how subtle that sort
of distinction is of being a wild kid without being.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
A I mean Max kid.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
Max is not a good kid. You know.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
It's not like, oh, come on, take it easy on him.
I'm like, now that kid really needs some like professional
help man, you know, like, and I shouldn't feel that
way about him. I should want to go on.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
The journey with him. I don't want to spendy time
with him. So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah, I mean, and they try, they try, you can
feel them trying to make that connection. But you're right,
it needs to be more of a oh I had
something planned today, or heck.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Look at hook.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
The kids want their dad's attention. They want him to
be at the ballgame, they want him to be at Now,
obviously it's more on the dad and he's missing things
and it's just the timing and the priorities.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Are out of whack. But but the dad isn't bad.
The kids aren't bad.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
It's just it's a circumstantial problem that they have to
just co overcome. This kid needs some therapy.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
But I I will say about hook when that kid
is throwing the baseball, Yeah, the airplane on the window.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, you know, you're not wrong there, And then that
it was hard enough for the the airbags to deploy
from the ceiling, like.
Speaker 6 (40:19):
The way that Spielberg did that scene, like fine, break
he's like smashing I guess the window. He's just like
it's like, oh kids, not oh kids. I'd throw that
kid up here.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, you know, if it didn't involve opening up the door.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
I at least trapped that kid down. Yeah. I think
that that was a bit.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
That's a big like okay, speaking of which, that's a
big hurdle for me, especially with this film, and you know,
we've talked about it several times.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
But I don't.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
I don't like child protagonists.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
I I really don't.
Speaker 6 (40:56):
I have such a struggle with child protagonists because I
have I'm like my mother, I have children. I love
my children. I don't like children, and it's it's it's
so funny because I like children more than my mother.
My mother did and does. And I was one time,
(41:17):
you know, talking with my with my wife and she's like,
your mom doesn't like kids, does she. I was like, oh, no,
she doesn't. I was like, did you feel like you
had a good childhood? I was like, I had a
fantastic childhood. I don't know how, but I did.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
My parents were the same way.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
There's a difference when you were a kid and not.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Yeah, my parents were the same way. And I'm this
way too. Like when you're part of the tribe, you know,
all rules are very different. And then once you go
outside that circle, it's like that kid's a jerk. I
don't want to hanging out with that kid. It's like, oh,
come well, I just got to be friends with a kid. No, No,
that kid's no. I don't like that kid. I don't
like that kid.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
And so I have that mentality and so like coming
into it right off the bat and seeing that entry,
you're just like, Okay, this is going to be a
struggle and.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
I I hate yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 (42:03):
And that's the thing is that, like, I hate that
I had to rely on the technical aspects of the
movie in order to enjoy my filming, my film viewing experience.
And I just my biggest complaint and I keep coming
back to it because I know that we're we're getting close.
But my biggest complaint is, yeah, is the is the structure.
It's just there's just nothing there. You know, like you
(42:27):
have some really cool moments between the characters, like you know,
like how he interacts with k W, how he interacts
with Carol. You know, you have certain moments or like
when kW steps on Carroll's face and he said, he said, yeah,
but like you know, like Douglas did it by accident,
like you you you stepped on my head, but then
you you stepped on the face part of my head.
(42:49):
Like this, there was a very realistic, kid like interaction
and there's moments of that kind of brilliance that shines through.
But this would have made a kick ass thirty minute
music video.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
This this would have been an award winning short film.
And that's what it should have been. I can honestly
say that if while I was singing Jones's praises and saying,
oh yeah, if you're talking about the effects, this is
absolutely what I would I'd say Jones would be a
director I would trust with this. If you came to
me and you'd say, and we need one hundred million dollars.
(43:26):
I'd have said, you're out of your your bleeping mind.
Speaker 5 (43:30):
Not a chance.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Come back when you have a twenty five minute movie
and I'll give you twenty million dollars to make it.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
How about that?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
I mean, seriously, this is a movie like this is
an Awards play. You cannot possibly sit there and think
that this is a box office play. And you can't
bring in a director like Jones and you see the
two movies he's done before, and you're like, this one's
going to do buffo numbers.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
That's not this guy.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Go to give you one hundred million and you're gonna
make what two hundred one fifty one twenty really on this?
Speaker 6 (44:03):
The Yeah, this is this is for film nerds. This
is a movie for film nerds. And I'm sure that
there are people who are listening to this who are like, no,
like you guys are heartless bastards, and like I had
a real emotional connection to it. And you know, I'm
not discounting that at all. If you did, fantastic, I'm
glad that you. I'm glad that you did. I'm glad
(44:23):
you were able to connect on it. We just weren't
able to. And when I first watched this movie. I
did not like it. And I called up my buddy
and I said, you told me this was a cool movie.
Why did you lie to me? And he says, He's like,
how did you phrase it? He said, he said, it's
a movie that shows the child experience and you hate children.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
That's what he said.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
Okay, your friends, Okay, it might be true about you,
but I'll just I'll back you up on this. I mean,
I don't think you know what. I'll tackle on to
what you're saying. I would not at all be surprised
that this is one of those movies where there's no
middle ground. You're either going to walk out, you're like,
(45:11):
this is the best adaptation of a children's book that's
ever been committed to screen, or you're gonna be me
and you're gonna be like that kid's an a hole.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
I don't want to spend two hours with him.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
He can go to hell. And you know, you know,
there's room enough.
Speaker 5 (45:27):
For both people, both types of people in this world.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
All right, Well, keeping our podcast from turning into an
overbudget over length and what it should be, let's move
into final thoughts and ratings.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
But there's been a good discussion.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I think we've given it it's fair shake, it's merit
where it has, especially in the visuals. But Tristan so
revisiting this watching it twice, which is one time more
than John, what are your final thoughts, I'm given it
a two and a half. I feel like it's just
(46:03):
the story isn't there. And if the script isn't there,
if the story isn't there, if you're not engaging me
for a full for your run time, then that's huge
knocks against you. Like you can have these little moments
of brilliance, but you can't have five moments or brillions
spread out across an hour and a half, and you
need stuff in between. You need that connective tissue, and
(46:24):
this movie just doesn't have it, and it's just a
it's it doesn't really feel.
Speaker 6 (46:31):
Like a cohesive story structure. It just feels like a
collection of moments. And I know that some people might argue, oh, well,
you know, like that's that's like a kid's story, or
that's like what kid telling a story, or that's like
from the kid's perspective. Yeah, I'm still an adult who's
watching it, though, and so you have to you have
to entertain me and use basic story structure skills, and
(46:55):
that's that's my main issue is that it's just like, oh,
oh they're destroying the trees for ten minutes. Oh they're
having a rock fight for ten minutes. Oh they're doing
this for ten minutes. Okay, We're going to listen to
kron O for a little while, Okay. And it's just
it's just that that, that, and then book ends of
the real World Katherine Keene are trying to put bring
(47:17):
home the Bacon and cook that. That's stuff too. Yeah,
so two and a half for me mediocre.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
All right, Well, John, we've been mentioning how you do
see the fingerprints of Jones on this. Sometimes a director
will have very strong outings and then something comes along
and you're like, I didn't see him anywhere, but he
definitely has his prints over this heat.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
What is your rating for Where the Wild Things Are?
Speaker 4 (47:43):
It gets as generous a rating as it does strictly
because I respect the technical aspects of it. If the
technical aspects were one iota less than what they are,
it would be a full star lower and I come
in at a two never never going to watch this again.
I respect what Jones was trying to do. I respect
(48:06):
what was accomplished, but just not an enjoyable thing. Two
stars for me.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, when we were doing when we announced that we
were doing Spike Jones, I was excited because I remember
enjoying this movie in the theaters in O nine and
was looking forward to talking about it. But yeah, the
flaws showed up a lot more.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
On this viewing.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Honestly, more for the technical aspect. I really saw the
squatch and stretch on the faces. It wasn't enough to
pull me out, But especially for the cockatoo. I mean,
he's got a beak, so literally, every time they're moving
the end of that beak at the corner of his mouth,
(48:53):
you see the pixels move. It does not look like
he's talking. But that is the nitpick of nitpicks, you know.
For I think this is the best way to bring
this story as far as the wild Thing part, this
is the best way you could possibly bring it together.
You're marrying technologies that work with great voice performances and
(49:16):
creature performances. I would never even if they came out
with a big budget CG fest, I wouldn't even go
see it. I was like, you cannot improve on the
look of this. I think that hits. But you just
don't like the protagonists. And I felt more connected with Carol.
I was very interested in Carol. I cared about what
(49:38):
was happening to him, the interaction with his friends, like
that is what I latched onto. And Max almost disappeared
like he's just observing and going along. I was interested,
who are these who are Terry and Barry? Like where
are they coming from? Like that's the plot I want
to see, you know Max is there, and then maybe
(50:01):
go more into that kind of twist at the end
where you know they're talking about No, we know he's
he's not a king, He's just a boy.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
It's like you did know that, Like what what is
going on? Like? Who?
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Like what are the levels of these characters? But but
I'll have to say, I wish I could give it more.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
But this is a two.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
It's it's it's purely for the the practicality, the visuals.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
The How am I ranking this higher than both.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Of you because I don't give half stars. I'd probably
give it two and a half.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
If what this is the house lights where Tristan's heart
grew three sizes that day.
Speaker 6 (50:44):
Yeah, I think for me like, I give two and
a half's for mediocre films and two two stars for
bad films, and I don't think this is a bad film.
It's just like, you don't have to just that. That's
my own personal ranking system.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
You don't have to justify yourself To Tristan, we understand.
We accept you the way the wild things accepted Next
until they wanted to eat.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Until they turned on him in a vicious way. Well,
the budget's returning back to a reasonable level next week
as we hit our next installment here in the House
of Jones, with twenty thirteen's per here.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
On house Lights.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.
Welcome to the ned Palty.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back to house Lights, our director discussion show here
on the Nerd Party Network. This week, we're continuing the
House of Jones with Spike jones third film, Where the
Wild Things Are from two thousand and nine, with five
times as normal budget and extensive exterior shots. Will this
film capture the wonder of the nineteen sixty three children's
(00:41):
book only? The marketing team and test audience will tell.
I'm Darren motion tracker Boser, and I'm joined again by
my friend's giant twig structure architect John Mills and child
trauma specialist Tristan Riddell. Where are fantasies sales? Take us
(01:01):
on this edition of house Lights? Yeah, this movie. I
mean we often have this question at the very beginning
of have you seen it before? And I'm really glad
that we have some of us that have and some
of us that haven't, because being O nine, being sixteen
years ago, the special effects, the where we were in
(01:23):
our lives. This is definitely one of those movies. I
think that if you watch when it came out, versus
watching with kids, versus watching when you're older, I think
we'll have a play in that and we'll find out.
So John, I'm going to pick on you first. So
this was your first.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Time watching Where the Wild Things Are? Were you? Did
you know of the book?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Did you have the Newberry Award winning copy or which draper?
I'm sure I had won one of those awards.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
It is not something that I grew up with. I
was aware of the book. I read it before, and
by the time I read it, it was like, eh, okay,
just like you know, everybody's always like they go on
about Disney, and I'm like, I wasn't a Disney family either,
so like people like Wax nostalgic about like old school Disney,
and I'm like it existed, sure, right, so I had.
(02:13):
I wasn't terribly familiar with the book. I was familiar enough.
I worked in a toy store where we sold it
as well, so you would leave through it during slow time.
Sometimes it's like, oh, that's cool artwork. But when this
came out I wanted to see it. I was just
too busy at the time because I had two very
young children at the time, and so it just wasn't
(02:36):
in the cards. And as I recall, like, there was
a there was a good marketing Push. There was a
huge nostalgia wave going along with it. A lot of
people were very stoked for it, and I but I
was excited because I was like, oh, this looks like
something really like a fresh take on something from Spike Jones,
whose previous two movies I at least enjoyed. And so
(02:59):
it's like, okay, I'll give a crack at this, but
I just never got around to it till now.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
So yay, podcast homework.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Exactly well, and this will be interesting when we get
onto the visuals, because I mean as much nostalgia can
be attached to this book. I mean it's thirteen sentences
and he somehow drafted that into one hundred plus page
you know story treatment. But Tristan, you saw this in
(03:26):
theaters or was it a rental?
Speaker 6 (03:29):
I didn't see this in theaters. I did see it
when it came to video. Okay, pretty much as soon
as it came out. I saw this on video. I
had my best man at my wedding. He was all
about this movie. He was screaming its singing, its praises,
and I'll also screaming it, and so he's like, you
have to watch this because he was ashamed of me
(03:50):
for not seeing it in theater, and so as soon
as it came out on video, he said, he's a
go rent to go get it right now, and I did,
and I have not seen it since. So last time
I saw it was in nine or ten or whenever
it came out on the video.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, Well, to round out are trifecta. I saw this
in theaters. I remember the trailer coming up, and again
it's it's a children's book.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Made into a movie. I mean, we were.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Just waxing about Harold in Purple Cryan and there are
there's certain only nostalgic can only go so far. Like
it is a children's book. It is a small thing
you are extrapolating out. Or I think of the Polar
Express maybe another good example of a book that is
very short and they are able to stretch it out
(04:37):
through various songs and dance, because otherwise it would be
fifteen minutes long. So with this one, while its core
is the story of Max, and you know, hits all
the main beats, we get the main lines and all
of that. For this movie, I really wanted to see
it for the creature work, for the visuals, and you know,
(05:00):
I mean jumping into to that aspect. This was the
creatures were made by Jim Henson Creature Shop, and we
were talking about nine a second ago, and I apparently
end the hangover. They also did the tiger that was
I don't know if I've never seen the hangover, so
I'm assuming it's in a car somewhere and pops up,
and so they did the creature work for that as well.
(05:22):
But in this one, you know, I think we could
all place bets that if they were making it today,
it would be one hundred percent CGI and probably suffer
for it. But for this one, they had full body
creature effects and then they did post processing with visual
effects on the faces and eyes to push around the
(05:44):
pixels and you know, add blinking and lines of sight
and try to pull a performance out of a still face.
So so, John, when you first saw this, did did
that hold up for something that is sixteen years old?
Did you kind of start to see the swash and
(06:04):
stretch and it looked like photoshop had kind of been
pulled in a little bit, because I noticed that a
little more of this viewing than I did back you know, nine.
But how did it come across? Did you feel captured
in that real world.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I think that on the whole, the work on the
faces is incredibly strong and holds up because there's something
to be said for subtlety, and I think there was
some subtlety at play. I think that there are certain
things where the lighting helps it as well. There are
inevitably on any show there's going to be something where
(06:39):
it doesn't quite hit the mark, and so yeah, there
were a couple of times where it just doesn't move
the way it's supposed to, quote unquote. But on the whole, yeah,
I think that the face work was great. I think
that the idea to keep them all practical suits was
great because it gave them the opportunity to focus on
the face work. Had they done these particular killer creatures
(07:00):
fully CG, there's no way you would have gotten the
breeze blowing the fringes of the.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Fur right, especially ten feet away, they look real.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah, it never ever, ever would have worked because of
that fringey feel on the side. And I think that
so I think that, I mean Jones showed in his
previous two movies that he knows how to handle special effects,
so I would be confident if somebody came to me
and they said, oh, this is what Spike Jones wants
to do, I would actually be confident. I'd say, oh, okay, well,
(07:32):
I know he can. He's a likely one to pull
this off. I wonder, actually it probably goes back to
his video days, because they would do they would put
in music video and such. Yeah, music videos, they would
put in those types of special effects. So he probably
had a very good sense of what the camera could
do in conjunction with But I think it holds up
(07:56):
very very well in terms of some of the stuff
that doesn't hold up as well. Sometimes I wonder when
I watch stuff on you know, the TV that I have,
or that anybody has, I think there's something to be
said for when it's presented in the big theater. I
think that they design the effects for that format, and
(08:18):
I really think that shrinking it down there, no matter
how good you remaster it, it's not going to look
as good as its intended format.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Like I can.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
I can look at a beautiful painting, like a Renaissance painting,
but if I shrink it down to my TV screen
by you know, one of the Dutch masters, it's never
going to look quite the same. There's so much that
goes into the larger presentation and shrinking it down. I
just think that there's no way you can't expose some
(08:50):
of the flaws you would normally miss well.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And this is a movie, you know, like so, just
in talking about the kind of the cinematography of it,
for a moment, there are it does not shy away
from wide shots, from expansive you know, our characters are
tiny in the frames at times, but it it's this
wild edge of fantasy world where it's a forest and
(09:14):
there's creatures and stuff. But like it visually, does this
fit this kind of I don't want to say on
Canny Valley, but it's right there in the middle of
you feel the fantasy of it, but it's rooted so
rooted in the trees and the dirt and the rocks
(09:35):
and the sand and the water where it feels real.
Did this visually you know? And cinema, you know, with
the cinematography kind of take you on that journey? Did
you feel taken?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
I think the cinematography was was best suited for the
story that he wanted to tell. I think this is
definitely a Spike Jones film, and it looks like it.
It feels like it. I think that it was. It
was nice to see that the visual language of the
(10:09):
movie was incredibly different from adaptation and being John Malkovich,
but you could still tell it's a Spike Jones film.
But I think that's I think that shows his confidence
as a director where he can mess around with the
style while still having his imprint on it. And so
(10:30):
I feel like, you know, I love the mixture of
the forest and the desert and the island scenes and
things like that where it's all like beaches and whatnot.
It felt really mythical in where they just all of
a sudden they were surrounded by dunes, and I think
you if you're going to showcase that kind of landscape,
(10:51):
you have to shoot the landscape, and so you need
wide shots. And I think that was It would be
a disservice just to show close ups or even mediums
when you're trying to have this expansive world within worlds.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
No, I definitely agree. I mean, you were stating that
this feels like a Spike Jones movie. You see his
fingerprints on it. John with the story, with the treatment
of pulling this these thirteen sentences out.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Did it?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
How did you feel when first watching it for the
real world part and the framing, you know, the beginning
and the end with the mom and you know the
I think I've heard a lot of people remark on
this movie of oh, this really captured the feeling of childhood,
And I'm like, maybe some people's childhood. I don't know
if necessarily my childhood, but but how did those framing
(11:47):
devices literally the beginning and the end kind of work
for you or not?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
They didn't work for me. Honestly, there's definitely a layer
of you can even though it never outwardly states there,
there's a very gen X feel to this kid's childhood,
that that sort of mythical, more feral lifestyle that we
supposedly all had in gen X. And it's like, I'm
a gen x Er, trust me, guys. It's they make
(12:15):
so much of it like it's anyway, I think that
the movie started off very much on the wrong foot
with me, really on the wrong foot with me by
starting with the way he was chasing the dog around,
because my immediately, thank you, I'm glad I'm not alone.
(12:35):
Because the way he man handles that dog two things.
One that's like that's abuse of that dog, and two,
no dog on the face of the planet. No matter
how much that dog loves their their owner, that dog
is going to eat his face. Because it was just
obscene the way that And I know that seems silly
(12:57):
to fixate on, but I really fixated on it to
the point where I was trying to dissociate, to the
point where I saw him running and he had a
fork in his hand, and I'm like, you're running around
with a fork in your hand, jumping down the steps.
What well like to win too far with him? They
went too far to be fair.
Speaker 6 (13:13):
In the book, he's the opening scene, he's running down
the stairs chasing a dog holding a fork, and so
that's why they put that in there. But I understand
that they did the homage that they're saying like, oh, yeah,
this is like the book, but there are different ways
to show wrestling with your dog, and this was not
wrestling with your dog. This was abusing your dog. And
(13:37):
so from that moment on, I didn't give a crap
about Max. It's just I was just like, oh, okay,
you know, he deserves whatever's coming toward to him. But
then again, you know, like Jones was able to bring
me back in like when his Igloo was smashed and
everything like that, he starts crying, you feel that, you
feel that intensely. But then when he lashes out, you're
(13:59):
just like, oh, that's right, that's the psycho you know,
that's the that's the psychotic break.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
And I but but see that, you know, I really
want to go to that too, because this is this
is one of those things where the delicate line you
have to walk is Max is supposed to be wild
but but sympathetic. There you go, he he's not sympathetic.
Do I feel bad for the kid that is Igloo
gets smashed, Yes, but then that is framed by things
(14:27):
where I feel no sympathy for him because he's he's
actually being cruel and it's like I can't I you know,
I honestly from the from that very first opening, I
just couldn't connect. I didn't allow myself to connect. And
I think I think it's a miscalculation from Jones.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
No, I I agree.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
The the Igloo scene, I think is the is the
most powerful moment, and it's acted superbly, Like you feel
like the look on his face and the sound he
makes when he's like kind of suffocating you're like, oh,
we've all been there when we overestimated the fun and
it bit us and then they're building that into you know,
(15:11):
him and his sister and that relationship. So that moment
was great. The whole opening framing could have been half
the time. I mean, we're trying to stretch this movie,
but uh it. But yeah, as far as the sympatheticness
of the main character, it's almost like we made a
movie about Sid from Toy Story and we really want
(15:32):
you to care about him. No you you don't.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
That's he's your.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Poll story, Like I would never like, Yeah, we see
him in a shot and Toy Story three and he's
grown up in a garbage man and you're like, that's
all I need of him.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I don't need to see that character again.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I know what kind of person he is, so yeah,
it I think for me, I felt the same, a
bit of disconnection from Max.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But I do.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Appreciate what they are trying to set up because you
with I won't go so far as saying they need
that set up to make the Island parts pay off,
but you do see them in a weave. The way
he's talking to the wild things, and the rawness of
emotion and conflict and doubt and fear, like it very
(16:24):
much is tied into things that Max is going through.
Could that have been better in the first act probably,
but you know, let's get to the wild Things. And
we have an amazing voice cast in this like and
I mean it's so fun. One of my favorite things
(16:44):
in House Lights as we go through a director's series
is seeing when actors continually pop up and you're like, oh,
I know why they work together now because they worked
on that, and they worked on that and they know
they could handle this. So James Gann, Oh my gosh,
as Carol, the lead wild Thing. Every word he said,
(17:07):
I was captivated. He delivered it in I mean, all
the wild Things talk in this simplistic kind of childish way,
and it's almost kind of a nerving because it's like
these like it's like kids in adults' bodies, Like there's
something off about it that you can't quite put your
(17:28):
finger on. So so his you know, his part coming through,
we have you know, Chris Cooper as as Douglas the Cockatoo,
I almost a standout character. Like every moment he was
on screen, I'm like, more more Douglas.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And then he loses his arm.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But but what what to you, Tristan, did you have
a favorite voice cast? Apparently they were went around as
Forrest Whittaker.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
Forest Whitakers. I freaking love Force Whitaker in everything he does,
and I just the there was a moment where I
lost it. It's like, hu, i'm o u.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I make the holes in the trees.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
You you might have seen it, like just just that
just that tail end, that that that trail off of
You might have seen them, like it's just like like
do you know my work? You know, like it's like
it's setting you a business card, I mean. And and
of course Catherine Rahera, you know, like really really brought it,
like she understood what she needed to do and she
(18:26):
did it. And you can also really tell that this
that they were all filmed together, like the voice cast was,
it was filmed, it was it was recorded like they
like a Fantastic Mister Fox with Wes Anderson where that
cast was together acting it out and so that way
you could get that energy of them together. So they
(18:47):
all like went to some park and actually did a
mud fight like while they were being recorded.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, no, you you definitely feel that it doesn't feel
like all the behind the scene of Pixar movies where
they're all in the booth and they've got one hand
on the you know, the your piece. This it had
a vibrancy to it. Honestly, I will admit Judith the
three horned Lion, she scares me. She's like the one
(19:18):
that that creature design. I don't know something about it.
And the way she talks, I'm like, she is gonna
rip your face off, like she could maybe in a moment,
like I don't know, I would say if I was
on the island, I would say as far away from
her as I could. But but John, what what wild thing,
either performance or scare factor got under your skin? Uh?
Speaker 4 (19:44):
You know, I'll be honest, it's because of that opening.
You know, I can give credit to the cast. I acknowledge,
Like I'll just go ahead and say it, like basically,
when you come to me, it's essentially gonna be. This
is a film that full of great technique in search
of a film to match it. And I think that
(20:06):
as a result, I only looked at these creatures as effects,
real creatures. The voice work became secondary as a result.
I agree Gandalfini's great.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I like, I can.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
I can listen to each of them and I can
say they did good, they did they do thing well
is effective, but it suppressed my reaction to any of them,
like I want, Like there was a part of you
where it was like, oh, I wanted to love Chris
Cooper's performance, but I had backed away so hard, so
(20:41):
I by default, I'll go ahead and give Chris Crooper
the prize.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
There, Okay, are you saying you felt like the.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Voice acting versus the suit acting felt kind of disjointed,
Like it almost felt like you feel the two people
creating the character or oh no, he just Max kind
of spoiled it from the get go and you were
trying to dig out of a hole from act to yes.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
And so I looked at it purely from a technical standpoint.
So from a technical standpoint, yeah, I think that the
way that Jones records them and the type of performances
they gave brought the suits alive in that final that
final way that they needed to, like everything came together,
And I think that it can't be overstated how important
(21:26):
those voice performances were to the creature work working in
the first place. Like, you know, since we know it
was you know, Henson's workshop to put it together. It's
one of those things where you know, a big bird
doesn't work without big Bird's voice.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
It's that type of subtlety to it.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
And I think that Jones understood that that you needed
that person to believe that they were that character. And so, like,
I guess that's the the praise that I'll give the
voice acting is it didn't feel like they were voice acting.
It felt like they were performing a role. And that's
that's the important distinction.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Yeah, you had a group of very talented, award winning
actors delivering a very nuanced voice performance and that got
paired with like the best of the best creature works.
And you know, unfortunately, I think we're all kind of
consensusing that that unfortunately was bookended in a sour taste.
(22:27):
But once we're on the island, we can appreciate that,
but it does have to live within the wrapper of
the framing device.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We got the.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
Highest praise I could give the creature and voice work
is the only other thing that springs to mind where
it blended this well, and specifically you know, puppetry, creature
work and CG. And voice work was the Dark Crystal
series that Netflix only gave us one season of, which
is an absolutely if you haven't watched it, everybody go
(22:56):
watch it. It's an absolute master work. Is approaching that
level though, So that's that's the highest praise.
Speaker 5 (23:04):
I can give it.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
All, Right, Just what were your thoughts on on the
like we were saying about the rapper and the voice
work and all that.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Oh I had something.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
Oh I did?
Speaker 6 (23:14):
I did have somebody to say. It's just because we're
talking about the book ends and everything like that, and
there were there were things, there were things I liked
and things I didn't. But you know, Darren, like you
talked about where one thing I did appreciate was the
struggles that he went through were mirrored on the island,
and I think that was that was done very well
from a storytelling standpoint. That was done very well because
(23:36):
you can you can track his growth from that perspective,
like you're like, oh, he's interacting with Carol the way
that he interacted with with this, or he's interacting with Judith,
or Judith is interacting with him the way that he
interacted with them, you know, like that kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And so it's you need that.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Wouldn't been aspactful without the symmetry, right, you need, you
need the you need something to grow off of, I think,
and that did this very well. And there was there's
one scene that I think was done perfectly at the beginning,
like I have, I have my struggles with everything in
the real world, almost everything. But one thing that I
think that was done very well was that scene where
(24:17):
Catherine Keener is on the phone, uh and she's working
at her computer and Max is like doing the robot
you know, around her, like trying to make her laugh,
and then you know, falls to the ground and he
starts playing with her pantyhose on her toes, just kind
of like pulling in.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
A little bit.
Speaker 6 (24:35):
It was it was such a real moment. It was
it was so it was such a great encapsulation of
childhood and being that young and loving your mother and
just being wanting to be around her. And then like
you see that reciprocal love that they show her. They
show that she's not like there's there's no yeah, there's
(24:56):
no just an addition, right, She's not distant, She's there.
She even like types up his stories and you can
tell that they've done it a hundred times before, and
it's her way of, you know, still being able to
work but yet still interacting with him at the same time.
And so that I thought was beautifully crafted, which makes
it even more impactful for him to be a monster
(25:17):
and and act out because you know, like, yes, he
it's a he has a single parent home. But she's
not you know, she's.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Not spinning all the plates she's trying to get it.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
She's spinning all the places.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
She's doing what she can.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
No.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
I agree, and and I mean.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
And how useless was that boyfriends as Mark Ruffalo like
when he pops and he's like, you can't literally treat
you like that. I was like, way to contribute to
the conversation, Mark.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Good job, good job, good job. You know.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I'm thinking back to the Island and how it's so funny.
I feel like sometimes, especially with effects heavy movies, directors
will be so excited with I can put the camera
everywhere that they put the camera where they shouldn't. And
I love how pretty much every single shot is on
(26:10):
the ground eye level, like it feels like a documentary
crew is following Max around. Everything is very even when
they're far away like our camera is on the ground,
and that made it feel very real where you didn't
know what was around the corner. You didn't sometimes like
(26:31):
they're building the big, you know fort, and you only
see part of it because it's so big it's not
even in frame. And and I love how I didn't
pick it up the first time watching this that when
he's sketching it out and the foot is there, so
he draws around it. And they actually build the little
tower with a hook in it, just like the blueprint,
(26:53):
because they did that's how he drew it, So that's
how they built it.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
And I was like, I didn't I didn't really catch that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
But but I love the for lack of a better classification,
the childlike rambleness of the story meaning. And Max even
does this with his mom. This movie has this flow
of and then this happened, like it's like a child
(27:20):
is telling it to you, of Okay, we're gonna go
play a dirt cloud war and these are the rules,
and you're gonna go over here. Like and you notice
when you see a child's movie where they say that
there's no pronouns. Every every time they talk to another character,
it's the full name. It's kind of a simplistic way
(27:42):
of you know, that's why there's so memory, we can
remember everyone's name. But all that to say, I loved
the that kind of rambling aspect of it. Felt like
I was watching a movie, but instead Max was sitting
next to me just telling me about his adventure. And
it was of that kind kind of not polished, first draft,
(28:04):
flow free flow of a story coming out. I felt
like the whole movie was like that, you know, not ucomprehensible,
but it had a different flow. I think that he
was going for it. So so John, you said you
didn't catch this in theaters you had very young children.
(28:25):
One of the things that kind of came about with
this movie coming out was its reception and marketing it.
It sounded like they purposely were not trying to market
it as a kid's film, and they kind of were
aware up front of like, oh, this movie's a little darker,
it's a little scary, it's a little unsettling at times,
(28:47):
like they're wild things. They feel wild, like you're not
quite sure what they're going to do. So to all that,
to say, how heck would you market this movie? Because
I don't think they figured it quite out?
Speaker 4 (29:01):
I mean, I would just lean straight into the nostalgia
aspect and make it clear that it's like, listen, this
is a film for how you remember childhood or something
like that. I think that would get plenty of people
in and just.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
A young adult not kid.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Well you know, by that point it is established parents
sort of thing. But like, I mean, you know, because
some of the criticism I I agree with where you know,
basically they're like, you know, they say, what can a
kid hang on to?
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Here?
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Like one of the one of the critics that cited
on Wikipedia talks about, you know, this is a film
full of adult ideas about childhood. So it's very much
somebody who's growing older looking back and saying, oh, I remember,
you know, let us ponder this thing that I tossed
aside as a child. And it's like that, I think
(29:55):
is what makes it incredibly difficult to access because I know,
I go into it, I'm thinking, okay, well, I'm familiar
with the source material. This is going to be something
that's designed to sort of tap into that child that's
in me that's still asking those questions and sort of
the beauty of those types of movies like Up From Pixar.
(30:17):
The stronger Pixar work is that it unlocks it in
adults and kids, because kids are asking the questions that
the Pixar movies we're asking and inside all of us.
You know, I'm not saying anything revolutionary here, but there
is still that little child that's still afraid and like
looking around and asking those questions every day. And it's
(30:38):
just we have a whole ton of experience put on
top of it. Now, maybe you know a you know,
rheumatic ankle that acts up every so often, but like
it is, I think that this is a movie that
cuts itself off because of that. And so I think
the only way you could have successfully marketed this would
to be like, look, this is for older people. This
(31:00):
isn't for your kids. This is for you to look
back on what it was like. You have the kids
stay at a sit or maybe or something like that.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Almost like the like the story came about not from
the book, but someone wrote a psych paper on the
effects of this, you know, children's story, and then they
turned that into a movie. And like you were saying, John,
of you know, when Pixar is at its best, you
have that kind of dual story of the surface layer story,
(31:29):
the kids get, the characters, the fun or maybe songs.
But there's so many things we as adults see and
can appreciate. This is like all of the latter and
none of the former. Like like you said, I mean,
I think you summed it up of what can a
kid connect with in this except for maybe they also
(31:50):
too had their igloo smashed and they also were sad
about that. But what did what did you think of
that aspect, Tristan, Like, I think we have a consent,
says of for visually telling where the wild things are.
This movie knocked it out of the park for translating
this book into something that people want to see it.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
It's it's a hit or miss.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
Yeah, this is an extremely difficult film to market, and
especially because of the direction that Jones took. And Jones
fought super hard to keep this type of direction, and
the studio, I mean, I think threatened at one time
to reshoot the entire seventy five million and be like, nope,
we're not releasing this, We're doing this over like that's
(32:38):
how bad it went. And so Jones had to go
back and say like, okay, well I'll change this in
this and but it keeps the tone and so I
don't even want to know. Yeah, what was what was
in Jones's first draft dark version?
Speaker 3 (32:51):
What was that? I don't know.
Speaker 6 (32:54):
Yeah, And the sister.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Die at a car crash, and that was the last
time you ever saw is when he smashed But.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
The heart, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
Maybe, Oh, Man, that's that's crazy that that's what you
pulled out, because I feel like that's something that.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Could have happened.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
But John, I think you, I think you really nailed
it about how like if you look at a Pixar film,
which is funny because Lassiter is actually mentioned in this
in this movie, like the when she says, like, what
did mister Lester not like about the presentation or the
report or something like that, it's because Lassiter tried to
get this off the ground. And oh that's funny mixing
(33:29):
animation styles. And I think it died in the nineties
at Disney. And Uh, it's just like John, with what
you said about how there are Pixar movies that can
open up childhood that kids who are currently going through
it and adults can reminisce about it. This is not
one of those movies. And I think you nailed it,
where like, this is an adult view of what they
(33:51):
thought childhood was like. And you know, my view of
what childhood was like is a heck of a lot
different than what it actually was, because I got almost
forty years of baggage on it that comes with it.
And some of it's good, some of it's bad, some
of it's in the middle, but it's you know, you're
(34:11):
dealing with a lot of shame and nostalgia at the
same time. And so yeah, this one, it's because it's
a kid's book and that your protagonist is a kid.
But yet I wouldn't show this to my kids, not
because I don't think they can handle it, but just
because I think they'd be bored to tears.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I agree on that count. I know my kids would
have been like what they wouldn't have made it to
the whole thing.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
And and I think, I think, I know that we're
talking about the marketing, but I think that's my biggest
thing with this movie is that I was like, Yeah,
the voice acting is fantastic. The creature effects are are
top notch for the time. I think I think they
even hold up today. I really do. And this like
the cinematography the production design is all on point. It's
(34:56):
just I feel like Jones relied too heavily on his
music video Roots, and you have thirty minutes of content here. Yeah,
stretch to an hour, forty hour, fifty whatever it is.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Yeah, you know, since you mentioned the music video Roots,
I will say that something that caused chills to run
up and down my spine was actually the hipster music
sort of thing.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
That's true. The soundtrack is a thing.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
Honestly grated on me, that whole like ethereal female voice over,
like the little like that sort of thing. If you
don't absolutely wrap that right in a movie, I'm going
to react violently to it. Like not in a literal
physical sense, but like internally I start to hate it.
Speaker 6 (35:52):
Because he was dating Karen O at the time.
Speaker 5 (35:55):
That's fine, that's fine, I'm good for it. I don't
know why it's the I know, good for him, I
you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
But like it's one of those things where it's like
it just rankles because it feels so lack of a
better term, it's feels so manipulative because it the whole
genre of music that sounds like that is about trying
to wistfully manipulate you into feeling a certain way, and
(36:24):
I don't, you know, I don't know. I think I
might have, like some that there's something with like oppositional
defiant disorder. And when I hear music like that, it's
triggered and I'm like, no, screw you, stop it.
Speaker 5 (36:35):
You're trying to manipulate me.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, no, I agree, there were For me, there were
parts with the music where I mean, at least it's
consistent throughout the whole thing, like it is very much
a tone. But yeah, this is kind of the type
of movie you need to kind of buckle up and
just really seep into the nuance. And that is not
(36:59):
a kid thing. They are, They are not built for that.
Maybe instead of focusing on I mean, I know it's
the wildness of Max, but you know, I mean, instead
focus on his imagination and his creativity. He's obviously a
very bright boy, very like you know, if he needs
the kid needs a notebook, if he had a notebook
(37:21):
that he was constantly drawing the wild things in and
making up little stories. And then he goes there and
we take five minutes and then we're there because he
wants to hide away after having a bad day great,
Like I think that would have you know, carried us
off right away.
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Or even in all honesty, as much of a trope
as it is, have him be a kid that's not bad,
but like you could you know that the parent overreacts
where it's like, which is just calmed down for once
in your life, you know, like it hurts the kid's heart.
So he goes off and retreats to that spot and
(38:00):
like goes off and sort of like comes to an
understanding that you know, sometimes mom and.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Dad they're people too, and they overreact.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
And then he comes back and he's like, hey, I
figured out, Like I don't know, but that's just.
Speaker 5 (38:12):
A whole different film.
Speaker 6 (38:13):
Yeah, well, I mean the kid has to be wild
because you know, he has to be sent like sent
to his room without dinner kind of thing. Yeah, you know,
that's that's the premise.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
But you have to he has to be wild in
a Calvin and Hobbes sense where it's harmless wild, where
you can one understand how mom and dad get flustered
at times, but at the same time, when you know,
when Dad yells at him, you're like, come on, he's
just being a kid, you know, Like you've got to
sympathize with him. I know, I'm coming back to that again,
(38:46):
where it's like I think it is, it's just I
don't know why. You know, maybe it is just that
the people making the movie forgot how subtle that sort
of distinction is of being a wild kid without being.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
A I mean Max kid.
Speaker 5 (39:05):
Max is not a good kid. You know.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
It's not like, oh, come on, take it easy on him.
I'm like, now that kid really needs some like professional
help man, you know, like, and I shouldn't feel that
way about him. I should want to go on.
Speaker 5 (39:17):
The journey with him. I don't want to spendy time
with him. So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Yeah, I mean, and they try, they try, you can
feel them trying to make that connection. But you're right,
it needs to be more of a oh I had
something planned today, or heck.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
Look at hook.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
The kids want their dad's attention. They want him to
be at the ballgame, they want him to be at Now,
obviously it's more on the dad and he's missing things
and it's just the timing and the priorities.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Are out of whack. But but the dad isn't bad.
The kids aren't bad.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
It's just it's a circumstantial problem that they have to
just co overcome. This kid needs some therapy.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
But I I will say about hook when that kid
is throwing the baseball, Yeah, the airplane on the window.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, you know, you're not wrong there, And then that
it was hard enough for the the airbags to deploy
from the ceiling, like.
Speaker 6 (40:19):
The way that Spielberg did that scene, like fine, break
he's like smashing I guess the window. He's just like
it's like, oh kids, not oh kids. I'd throw that
kid up here.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah, you know, if it didn't involve opening up the door.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
I at least trapped that kid down. Yeah. I think
that that was a bit.
Speaker 6 (40:42):
That's a big like okay, speaking of which, that's a
big hurdle for me, especially with this film, and you know,
we've talked about it several times.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
But I don't.
Speaker 6 (40:51):
I don't like child protagonists.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
I I really don't.
Speaker 6 (40:56):
I have such a struggle with child protagonists because I
have I'm like my mother, I have children. I love
my children. I don't like children, and it's it's it's
so funny because I like children more than my mother.
My mother did and does. And I was one time,
(41:17):
you know, talking with my with my wife and she's like,
your mom doesn't like kids, does she. I was like, oh, no,
she doesn't. I was like, did you feel like you
had a good childhood? I was like, I had a
fantastic childhood. I don't know how, but I did.
Speaker 5 (41:29):
My parents were the same way.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
There's a difference when you were a kid and not.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Yeah, my parents were the same way. And I'm this
way too. Like when you're part of the tribe, you know,
all rules are very different. And then once you go
outside that circle, it's like that kid's a jerk. I
don't want to hanging out with that kid. It's like, oh,
come well, I just got to be friends with a kid. No, No,
that kid's no. I don't like that kid. I don't
like that kid.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
And so I have that mentality and so like coming
into it right off the bat and seeing that entry,
you're just like, Okay, this is going to be a
struggle and.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
I I hate yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6 (42:03):
And that's the thing is that, like, I hate that
I had to rely on the technical aspects of the
movie in order to enjoy my filming, my film viewing experience.
And I just my biggest complaint and I keep coming
back to it because I know that we're we're getting close.
But my biggest complaint is, yeah, is the is the structure.
It's just there's just nothing there. You know, like you
(42:27):
have some really cool moments between the characters, like you know,
like how he interacts with k W, how he interacts
with Carol. You know, you have certain moments or like
when kW steps on Carroll's face and he said, he said, yeah,
but like you know, like Douglas did it by accident,
like you you you stepped on my head, but then
you you stepped on the face part of my head.
(42:49):
Like this, there was a very realistic, kid like interaction
and there's moments of that kind of brilliance that shines through.
But this would have made a kick ass thirty minute
music video.
Speaker 4 (43:04):
This this would have been an award winning short film.
And that's what it should have been. I can honestly
say that if while I was singing Jones's praises and saying,
oh yeah, if you're talking about the effects, this is
absolutely what I would I'd say Jones would be a
director I would trust with this. If you came to
me and you'd say, and we need one hundred million dollars.
(43:26):
I'd have said, you're out of your your bleeping mind.
Speaker 5 (43:30):
Not a chance.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Come back when you have a twenty five minute movie
and I'll give you twenty million dollars to make it.
Speaker 5 (43:37):
How about that?
Speaker 4 (43:38):
I mean, seriously, this is a movie like this is
an Awards play. You cannot possibly sit there and think
that this is a box office play. And you can't
bring in a director like Jones and you see the
two movies he's done before, and you're like, this one's
going to do buffo numbers.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
That's not this guy.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Go to give you one hundred million and you're gonna
make what two hundred one fifty one twenty really on this?
Speaker 6 (44:03):
The Yeah, this is this is for film nerds. This
is a movie for film nerds. And I'm sure that
there are people who are listening to this who are like, no,
like you guys are heartless bastards, and like I had
a real emotional connection to it. And you know, I'm
not discounting that at all. If you did, fantastic, I'm
glad that you. I'm glad that you did. I'm glad
(44:23):
you were able to connect on it. We just weren't
able to. And when I first watched this movie. I
did not like it. And I called up my buddy
and I said, you told me this was a cool movie.
Why did you lie to me? And he says, He's like,
how did you phrase it? He said, he said, it's
a movie that shows the child experience and you hate children.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
That's what he said.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
Okay, your friends, Okay, it might be true about you,
but I'll just I'll back you up on this. I mean,
I don't think you know what. I'll tackle on to
what you're saying. I would not at all be surprised
that this is one of those movies where there's no
middle ground. You're either going to walk out, you're like,
(45:11):
this is the best adaptation of a children's book that's
ever been committed to screen, or you're gonna be me
and you're gonna be like that kid's an a hole.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
I don't want to spend two hours with him.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
He can go to hell. And you know, you know,
there's room enough.
Speaker 5 (45:27):
For both people, both types of people in this world.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
All right, Well, keeping our podcast from turning into an
overbudget over length and what it should be, let's move
into final thoughts and ratings.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
But there's been a good discussion.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I think we've given it it's fair shake, it's merit
where it has, especially in the visuals. But Tristan so
revisiting this watching it twice, which is one time more
than John, what are your final thoughts, I'm given it
a two and a half. I feel like it's just
(46:03):
the story isn't there. And if the script isn't there,
if the story isn't there, if you're not engaging me
for a full for your run time, then that's huge
knocks against you. Like you can have these little moments
of brilliance, but you can't have five moments or brillions
spread out across an hour and a half, and you
need stuff in between. You need that connective tissue, and
(46:24):
this movie just doesn't have it, and it's just a
it's it doesn't really feel.
Speaker 6 (46:31):
Like a cohesive story structure. It just feels like a
collection of moments. And I know that some people might argue, oh, well,
you know, like that's that's like a kid's story, or
that's like what kid telling a story, or that's like
from the kid's perspective. Yeah, I'm still an adult who's
watching it, though, and so you have to you have
to entertain me and use basic story structure skills, and
(46:55):
that's that's my main issue is that it's just like, oh,
oh they're destroying the trees for ten minutes. Oh they're
having a rock fight for ten minutes. Oh they're doing
this for ten minutes. Okay, We're going to listen to
kron O for a little while, Okay. And it's just
it's just that that, that, and then book ends of
the real World Katherine Keene are trying to put bring
(47:17):
home the Bacon and cook that. That's stuff too. Yeah,
so two and a half for me mediocre.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
All right, Well, John, we've been mentioning how you do
see the fingerprints of Jones on this. Sometimes a director
will have very strong outings and then something comes along
and you're like, I didn't see him anywhere, but he
definitely has his prints over this heat.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
What is your rating for Where the Wild Things Are?
Speaker 4 (47:43):
It gets as generous a rating as it does strictly
because I respect the technical aspects of it. If the
technical aspects were one iota less than what they are,
it would be a full star lower and I come
in at a two never never going to watch this again.
I respect what Jones was trying to do. I respect
(48:06):
what was accomplished, but just not an enjoyable thing. Two
stars for me.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, when we were doing when we announced that we
were doing Spike Jones, I was excited because I remember
enjoying this movie in the theaters in O nine and
was looking forward to talking about it. But yeah, the
flaws showed up a lot more.
Speaker 3 (48:30):
On this viewing.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Honestly, more for the technical aspect. I really saw the
squatch and stretch on the faces. It wasn't enough to
pull me out, But especially for the cockatoo. I mean,
he's got a beak, so literally, every time they're moving
the end of that beak at the corner of his mouth,
(48:53):
you see the pixels move. It does not look like
he's talking. But that is the nitpick of nitpicks, you know.
For I think this is the best way to bring
this story as far as the wild Thing part, this
is the best way you could possibly bring it together.
You're marrying technologies that work with great voice performances and
(49:16):
creature performances. I would never even if they came out
with a big budget CG fest, I wouldn't even go
see it. I was like, you cannot improve on the
look of this. I think that hits. But you just
don't like the protagonists. And I felt more connected with Carol.
I was very interested in Carol. I cared about what
(49:38):
was happening to him, the interaction with his friends, like
that is what I latched onto. And Max almost disappeared
like he's just observing and going along. I was interested,
who are these who are Terry and Barry? Like where
are they coming from? Like that's the plot I want
to see, you know Max is there, and then maybe
(50:01):
go more into that kind of twist at the end
where you know they're talking about No, we know he's
he's not a king, He's just a boy.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
It's like you did know that, Like what what is
going on? Like? Who?
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Like what are the levels of these characters? But but
I'll have to say, I wish I could give it more.
Speaker 3 (50:20):
But this is a two.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
It's it's it's purely for the the practicality, the visuals.
Speaker 3 (50:29):
The How am I ranking this higher than both.
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Of you because I don't give half stars. I'd probably
give it two and a half.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
If what this is the house lights where Tristan's heart
grew three sizes that day.
Speaker 6 (50:44):
Yeah, I think for me like, I give two and
a half's for mediocre films and two two stars for
bad films, and I don't think this is a bad film.
It's just like, you don't have to just that. That's
my own personal ranking system.
Speaker 4 (50:57):
You don't have to justify yourself To Tristan, we understand.
We accept you the way the wild things accepted Next
until they wanted to eat.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
Until they turned on him in a vicious way. Well,
the budget's returning back to a reasonable level next week
as we hit our next installment here in the House
of Jones, with twenty thirteen's per here.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
On house Lights.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Join the Revolution, Join the net Party.
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