September 7, 2023 • 42 mins
"The Sword in the Stone" is a mixed bag. It offers charming characters, some delightful animation sequences, and a whimsical tone that appeals to a younger audience. However, its lack of a robust and cohesive plot and its departure from the depth of the source material may leave some viewers feeling unsatisfied. Ultimately, it's a Disney classic with its merits, but it falls short of achieving the greatness of some of the studio's other timeless animated films.
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(00:03):
Welcome to the nerd Party. Welcomeback to Houselights, our director discussion show
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here on the Nerd Party Network.Today we are starting the Wing of King
Arthur. We will traverse through sixmotion pictures that tell the Authurian legend from
nineteen sixty three to twenty seventeen,starting with The Sword and the Stone by
Walt Disney Pictures and directed by WolfgangReitherman. I'm sir Darren Moser, and
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I'm joined by my friends, groundskeeperof the Sword in the Anvil Garden,
Tristan Riddell and magician jovial John Mills. Now it is rare that we cover
animated pictures here on Houselights, Soprepare yourself for fish, birds and squirrels
in The Sword and the Stone.Yes, John, you are are always
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jovial John when we talk animated pictures. Oh, I thought it would just
be because I'm forgetful and now Ilive in a place that's prone to lots
of rain and weather inconveniences, buteither works. I love being known as
jovial, much like Merlin in thisfilm is very jovial and full of modern
(01:27):
twentieth century references. Despite when thestory is set, I mean, it's
we need to let the kids connectwith him. He needs to be the
favorite. Yes, well, andJohn, this is also the first time
you've seen this picture. It escapedyour viewing enjoyment throughout your youth. Did
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the Disney channel not come on toyou know, Bob Iger not come out
with that sweater and you know havinga Disney Afternoon? No? No,
no, See, when I wasgrowing up, you had wide World of
Disney on all ABC on Sunday nights, and no, this never came onto
my radar. We were not abig Disney family. Like my dad and
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my mom. They grew up withit and there was a respect for it,
but it was never anything that waseven after we had you know,
VCR and everything like that. Iwas deep in the tank for Star Wars
obviously and also for you know,the Star Trek movies and stuff like that.
So like by the time VHS camearound and was a thing, I
was sort of aging out. Isaw a black cauldron in the Man Theater
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and you know, super poly boundplastic Disney VHS is that took up way
more space than any other VHS ofits type. You know, why why
not create more space in the landfillwith excessive packaging. It's always a good
way to go. But I thinkthat, like, like what's interesting is
when I was coming up, likeI loved like Tron and the Black Hole.
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We saw the Black Cauldron in themovie theater or my dad and I
loved it, and then it Ijust sort of like aged out of it,
like a little too quickly, thatsort of thing. Yeah, what
about you, Tristan, is thisanother It's either one or the other,
right, either staple of the Tristanhousehold or never seen it. This was
probably my favorite animated Disney movie fora very long time when I was when
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I was a wee lad, Iloved Arthurian Legend. I think it was
more just because I loved Wizards andthe Arthurian Legend more so than I liked
the movie. It was mainly justbecause I, like, I loved medieval
stuff and everything like that. Imean, my name is Tristan, you
know, you know my mother namedme after one of the knights of the
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Round Table. And uh so,yes, whatever you want, you know,
So this was yeah, this,this one was one that I watched
all the time on that way toomuch plastic vhs. Yeah, and everything,
Like, I mean, it's seventynine minutes. Guys, I guarantee
this is gonna be the shortest our, theory and legend of the six we
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cover by a long shot. Andone thing that I like, you know,
watching it on VIA speaking of theVHS and the plastic everything that watching
it on VHS, it's crazy thatit was. We were closer to the
original aspect ratio with the VHS thanwe are with the modern HD releases and
on Disney Plus. Because on DisneyPlus it's all cropped to sixty by nine.
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I mean even in the theater itwas one point seven five, but
now it's I mean it's originally wasthe Academy ratio of one point three seven,
and so we on the VHS wehad it on one point three three.
And it's just I hate when theydo that. You think, like
with Disney Plus, it would belike, no, like, let's let's
give out the versions in every inchof animation, like it's there, there's
detail on the frame. They're busytaking up that bandwidth offering you the IMAX
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versions of the MCU movies. Yeah, because what are you gonna do with
that at home? What do youwhat do you don't have any What did
Schindler say, Like, man,we got nineteen more lines of pixels the
theater? Oh man, oh yes, well resolution lines are not the only
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thing we're talking about here on houselights. But yeah, this one for
me, I don't think we ownedit on VHS, but I did catch
it, you know, Wonderful World, Disney and those kinds of things.
I was much from this kind ofsixties seventies era. I was much more
a Robin Hood guy like that waswhat I love that story, and that,
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you know, was also what introducedme to that legend. As this
movie I think probably introduced a lotof people too, the Artherian legend like
it. Now I want to talkabout factual as far as the legend goes,
probably not the best source to bekidding your information from, but it
does have Arthur. He does pullthe sword out of the stone, and
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it's kind of like and then turnedthe page to hear the rest of the
story. You know, we don'twe don't cover that. We just get
up to the pulling of the sword. What fantastical adventures he had with Merlin
before that even happened. But yeah, yeah, yeah, you know it's
sort of like watching the movie JurassicPark and reading the book Jurassic Park.
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You know, there's similarities, butyeah, there's some liberalities taken with the
storytelling naturally. But I think thatthis is and this is coming out as
somebody looking at it for the firsttime. The overall experience is was very
detached for me in the sense thatthe whole time I was watching it,
it very much plays for this firsttime viewer as an artifact of its time.
(06:43):
Okay, this is I think youmade the joke earlier, Darren.
We got to make something for thekids to relate to. This is very
much a Hey, we're Disney,how do we do this? What's public
domain? What can we do?And somebody said, well, there's King
Arthur everybody. You can make KingArthur for nothing and you don't have to
pay anybody in nothing. It's okay, great, all right, let's put
that into development. Just have ascript by the end of the week,
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and let's start storyboarding this thing likeit even has that old schooly very hand
drawn field where even in some ofthe frames you can see some of the
guide shapes still in some hair andxerox era, which is kind of that
early sixties where basically to save costsand to speed production, instead of the
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process where they would take the pencilsketches and then transfer them onto like a
clean cell, they instead would justdraw right over them, and so you
get and also you know, youor you'd make a photocopy and then you
would draw over that one. Butso, yeah, you see that in
you know, one hundred one Dalmatiansa lot you see that in aristic hats,
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this kind of late six you know, early sixties, early seventies era.
And then it starts to kind ofto peter out to speak on our
director for a second. So WolfKing rather man, he's been there since
the beginning. He was an animatoron snow White. He's done many many
pictures, some of his first directedone where he was not just an animation
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director, but the director was onehundred one Dalmatians, which is what predates
this movie. He also did JungleBook, which you'll catch some of the
similar voices. So you have likesir oh, certain, there's a lot
of sirs in this one, U, sir ector. So the jolly man,
the father ish figure maybe so hedoes Bagheera's voice in the Jungle Book.
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You also have you know Madam mimIs the Nanny and one hundred one
Dalmatians. You have the Owl wasthe voice of Rabbit for decades in the
Many Win of the Pooh. Sonot only did he do you know,
he also did The Aristocrats, directedRobin Hood and the Rescuers. So he
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was kind of their sixties seventies guy. Well, he was known. He
was one of the original nine OldMen. Oh, you're right, you're
right in the in in that Disneyera and he was he was also this
director was the This was the firstanimated film to have a single director in
Disney. Oh okay, I didn'trealize that. And so this this guy
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has seen some things. He's beenthrough it like he shaped history, he
shaped our childhoods like this, thisguy knows what he's doing and what he
was talking about. And also likespeaking of familiar voices like with Surrector Sebastian
Cabot. I loved it, likebecause in the in the movie he says
hold it kay, you know,to sir Kay, And in Jungle Book
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he says hold it car in thesame exact way, like in the same
exact cadence, and everything like that. I just absolutely love that little that
little tidbit. Oh yeah. Thevoice cast, I think in this is
is really like will you hear thatMerlin? And like that's many people's first
Merlin. Like they're just and there'snot a very big cast. It's actually
(10:05):
a very small amount of players inthis story, but it seems to work.
What did you think of the overallsound of it, John, You
know, it sounded the way thatI expected Disney movie from this era to
sound. And I know that's fair. I know that sounds dismissive. Uh
huh, but it really has thatfeel of sound booth, a sound booth.
(10:28):
B Yeah, you know, SebastianCabot came in and gave us a
couple hours. Let's just run withit. It wasn't what later era animation
winds up being where the character animationslike Robin Williams and Little Mermaid and that
kind of it's not it's not tailoredfor the performance. This is And I'm
not saying this to be dismissive ofthe voice talent because Sebastian Cabot I have
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a special place in my heart becauseif anybody is old enough to remember the
album series Golden Throats, which iswhere we first got to William Shatner's musical
forays, as well as Leonard Nimoy's. He did a spoken word album that
included a version of Bob Dylan's itAin't Me Babe, and I'll tell you
it's a treat for the senses tolisten to that thing. So whenever I
(11:16):
think Sebastian Cabin, I think that, but these are really these are their
different voices, well, their voicesalso where and I'm trying to try to
very fine line, but it didn'tmatter who was doing the voice. Yeah,
Aladdin is substantially different. If RobinWilliams is not doing the Genie,
or if any of those other voiceswere cast differently, it is absolutely a
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different film. It's a different filmin Beauty and the Beast if they don't
get the voice talent that they haveLittle Mermaid. So many things are key
in that from you know, Andand it's it's difficult because I do not
belittle what these actors did, Butat the same time, there was nothing
that to my ear was particularly spelabout what they brought to it. Now
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I hear that, I mean itBesides Arthur and Merlin and like Archimedes,
maybe Madam mim as well, likethe other players, like they almost don't
have names, like they're they mean, they have names, but they're very
forgettable in the fact that they're justkind of pushing the story along. They're
almost background. But and yeah,so for Ricky Sorensen, who did the
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voice of Arthur, I think,you know, did fairly well for a
younger voice. You know, he'sspeaking throughout almost pretty much the entire picture,
so that but again he's in soundboost a maybe not saund Booth b
with with Merlin. Three people didArthur's voice throughout the movie, and there
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are certain times when you can reallytell. Okay, that makes more sense.
I was looking at the list andI got confused. I'm like,
why are there so many? Arethey all start with R? It's Ricky
sper have a first first our nameand a last our name as a prerequisite
for being Arthur. I guess,yes, well, yeah it was.
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It was like you can really tellwhen like they're in the throne room and
he says he's like I wish Merlinwas here, and it's a completely different
person, Like it doesn't even soundanything like Arthur from the from the from
previous scenes. It's a I'm notquite sure why they did that, because
it's not just like, oh,they did it in this part and then
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this part, like it goes backand forth. It might have been the
length of production, because I thinkthey took like three or four years to
make each one of these movies,So it could just be their voice aged
out and they needed a new squeakykid voice. Well that's even in and
of itself. I like I detecteda different tone, but I I didn't
hear it as a completely distinct voice. I chalked up the difference in voicing
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in all honesty too, because Ididn't look at the credits that the you
know, they brought the actor backin to do some stuff and the sound
engineer just miked him up wrong orsomething like that. Whatever, just go
with it. So that's like whatit sounded like to my ear. So
I'll give them credit at the veryleast that it just sounded like a sound
engineering problem as opposed to completely differentpeople to me. So, but I
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have old ears since we're talking aboutthe sound. Well, one thing that
bugged the crap out of me evenas a child, and I counted it
this time while watching it was whenhe falls and you hear the whoo,
whoa, whoa. They used thesame audio of that seven times, and
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I just don't understand why it wasseven like twice. Okay, all right,
I guess you're in a pinch andyou don't want to bring him back
seven time falls. That's the exactsame sound effect. Well, that would
I think speak to again. Thatwhole idea of the voice talent was simply
give me the lines that I needand I'll just patch them where I need
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to. I'm just going to spotthis as opposed to tailoring anything, because
what what is odd about that tome is that says to me, they
didn't really have a lot of takes. It's not like they said, Okay,
give me a fall, give meslightly different, give me more energy
the fall, and that is yourfall. And that they recorded it once
and kept going instead of having sevenseven different versions of it and seven different
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inflections. And that would speak toan economy of production cost more than anything.
So okay, so we're introduced tothis story. It's you know,
we get this interesting minstrel song atthe beginning, kind of setting the stage
where it's like, you know,classic opened the book and you know it's
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a Disney movie. It's it's like, hey, here's a story and England.
It's very very simple. It's likeEngland War, Sword of the Stone.
You know, it's a little tune. They didn't have a king and
they didn't know what to do.Yeah, they didn't know what to do.
And then they and some of thosebackgrounds were from Sleeping Beauty Gears.
They totally forgot some really quickly.They forgot about the Sword and the Stone.
(16:12):
Yeah, Like as I was like, I remember in preparation for this
podcast, like when I was watchingit and they said, they're like,
oh and it was quickly forgotten.I was like, wait, how long
were they without a Yeah, I'mkind of wondered about that too, but
you know, it doesn't matter.Keep on moving. Here we go,
Magic, Merlin, Hippity Kimmity.Yeah, so we get you know,
(16:33):
Archimedes and and Merlin. Archimedes asan owl and that talks and it's a
Disney movie talking animals. Check thebox. But yeah, so he was
my favorite part. I'm sorry.Archimedes was my only adults He's the only
adult in this whole movie. Likeas a kid, I don't know who
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it was it was, might havebeen Madam mim buts as a as an
adult, Archimedes I truly enjoyed andjust like the who what what? Like
I can't tell you how many timesthat's in my head and how many times
they say it out loud. Atleast a couple of times a year.
Oh, I'm surprised, but yeah, like it's with Archimedes, like you
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like you could just see how frustratedhe was with everything and then he's just
like fine, I will do it, you know, like he he just
kind of takes it up. Andthen Merlin leaves he fs off, like
he goes to Bermuda, but Archimedesstays with him, Like I kind of
want to see that relationship a littlebit more. Like Archimedes is the one
who teaches them how to fly andthen sticks with him and then you know,
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like you know, he becomes kingand like he's coordinated. It goes
through his coronation and like Archimedes isthere, Merlin's not. Yeah, They're
like, okay, so your advisoris the bird. Okay, yes,
sir, you pulled that sword,so sure, Yeah, now and I'm
assuming that Merlin did some sort ofspell to make him be able to talk.
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Like he's the only talking creature inthis entire movie, even the birds
and fish and you know, squirrelsdon't talk like well, they giggle,
but they you know, they don'thave I love conversation Tylor's performance as the
little girl squirrel, like I lovedto say that. You know, I'm
(18:23):
a sucker for that. Every singletime Yeah tells all the Mickey Mouse sing
It's like I'm not actually saying something, but you can tell I have I
have thought. Yes, it's aninteresting sequence. It was a little odd
because I don't know if this isa sign of the film not engaging me
entirely. But I'm sitting there inmy head because I'm I'm I'm old.
(18:48):
Now fine, I get it,and I go my brain goes in direction.
You should have watched with young childrento really get like a feel for
I promise you my okay, firstand foremost my two oldest or teenagers,
steady. I'm not saying I don'tbet you had an option, but even
my youngest would have not dug this. This is not her speed whatsoever.
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And but that whole squirrel sequence.Like I get what they were going for.
It's a cute see you know,boys and girls fall in love sort
of thing. But it was soweird because I was sitting there and I
was like Marlin, like, I'mlike going down the moral implications of like,
she's a squirrel. At the endof the day, he's still a
human. Okay, I want tobring that up. Okay, John,
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because you texted me about this asyou're watching it and I hadn't seen it.
What was it? What was thetext I need? I needed to
give me a feel for it.Okay, give me the gist. The
gist was, and i'll i'll phraseit appropriately. Is it morally appropriate for
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an old man to push a youngboy to how sexual relations with a squirrel,
even if he is a squirrel temporarilyhimself? Oh? Man, So
the real question, fair question.It's a fair question. That is a
fair question. And that's the thingthough, is that, like, man,
I don't remember that, and soI, as I was watching it,
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I was really looking for it.And I think you completely blew that
out of proportion because I did.I was looking for it because like Merlin,
he doesn't say, oh yeah,you know, going the back and
you know, like you know,like show this snow girl squirrel what he's
just like, she doesn't know,she's she's like Merlin said, she doesn't
she doesn't know. And he justkind of used it as a jumping off
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point of saying, like, youknow, lake love is a powerful thing
and you know everything like that.He didn't say like you know, you
know, give it to her now. That's true. And the thing is,
I'm glad you bring up the textmessage because I was just kidding around.
But it's good that we bring itup here because it's but it's one
of those things where, like youlook at it, it's like, you
know, at the end of theday though, like the emotional torment that
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that little girl squirrel winds up feelingat the end of it, like they're
a little too of him. She'swere broken and they little too effective here,
and they hang on it like theydon't just hand wave it away like
they're like, oh, yeah,no, we did some stuff to this
to this little girl squirrel. She'snot gonna need therapy. Yeah, this
little girl squirrel is probably never goingto find a boy squirrel to settle down
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with. They find one and thenthey stick with him, so it's like,
sorry, you picked the human forthe hour, he was a squirrel
boy, and now you're out ofluck. Well, despite what John claims,
they never consummated the relationship. SoI think he'll she'll be able to
find something else. Okay. Seethis is where this is where my sense
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of humor always gets me in trouble. But also like I I even feel
bad for the the Was it abarracouta that goes after him as a fish,
because it's what, Yeah, it'spretty much a barracud It looks like
I think it was just a pike. Yeah, okay, whatever, It's
like asking me to name what typeof tree it is. I'm like,
scary fish, barracouta. Sure,it's one of those things. Were like
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even the barracouta. They're like,the thing's just doing what it's supposed to
nature. And you know, ifyou could, if you're gonna be an
idiot and turn yourself into a fishand make yourself vulnerable to predators, I
mean, hey, look at thedraw man and Merlin is like, no,
you gotta figure it out on yourown. I can't help you.
Okay, you've never been a fishbefore you got to figure out how to
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get through. It was the weirdestset of trials I think they could have
come up with too. It was, and it's I'm just being funny about
it, obviously, it's it's it'sdone intentionally and for the laugh and everything
like that, but it's again,I think it's one of those things that
just leaves it as a product ofits time more than anything else. At
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least the bird one makes sense withArchimedes, like because he takes over that
and like that actually makes sense.And but yeah, the fish one,
I mean, and there's that wolfalso that's kind of like lurking around.
Like it's a really interesting set oftrials, like you said, and the
wizard battle will get to that.But I liked the wolf because it was
(23:11):
a passive antagonist, right, likeaudience knows of the fear more than he
does, right, And he wasjust kind of an oath because I always
hate it, like when they showwolves as evildoers in movies, because wolves
will straight up leave you alone ifyou don't leave them alone. But with
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this one, it was it wasreally much just going for the joke,
and he was just like he wasjust opening his mouth hoping that he'd get
a morsel of something, and he'sjust like, ah shucks. Now see
that's humor that works for me.Yeah, that's the type of humor that
that's me as a little boy sittingwith my dad and we would have laughed
at something like that. That isabsolutely up my alley. I love that
sort of thing. I agree withyou. The wolf works very well because
(23:56):
I think that it's nice that theybring it through as well so that when
he's a squirrel, the poll showsback up and so the wolf isn't pursuing
him per se. It's just thewolf is you know, it's outing a
bad day. He's trying so hardand you feel for him. Yeah,
he's not trying to be a jerkor anything. He's obviously a little undernourished
here and just just trying to geta meal. Yeah. So I would
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love to ask you guys about thestructure of this of this movie. And
I know that this if it feelsso weird to have this intense of a
conversation about, you know, aneighty minute kids movie, but I was
you know, this this movie isso different in memory than it is an
(24:40):
execution. I think for me,because nostalgia wise, I was just like,
oh, the Sword in the Stone, you know, the legend of
Arthur and Merlin, it's so fantastic, And then when you watch this movie
it's not. It's not that,it's not that story at all. The
meat of it is just him becominga fish and then becoming a squirrel and
(25:00):
then becoming a bird. Like that'sthe story. That's the movie. And
then it ends with a wizard battleessentially, and the Arthurian stuff is just
literally bookends. Yes, and Imean almost there. For the whole Sword
in the Stone part, you almostget. Would you even go so far
as to say protagonist confusion of Merlin, Like Arthur is kind of just along
(25:22):
for the ride. He doesn't reallyguide his own destiny for the majority of
this movie, I would say structurewise, it's a movie that I would
say that this strikes me as standardfor what I would classify as the lesser
Disney films, which is it's justa collection of gags. It's what can
(25:45):
we do the sences of the transformationfirst, and they're like, how do
we fit this into the Arthur They'renot trying to tell a story, they're
trying to do. That's so spoton. That's exactly what this is.
It's a collection of it. It'sa collection of gags. But the thing,
even the wizard battle doesn't make whatdoes that have to do with Arthur.
That's that's gag number four. Andyeah, you know, and the
(26:08):
and the laundry or the dishwashing sequenceand the like, every every bit is
a bit. Yeah that, butthat that wizard battle. I freaking love
wizard battles in it. Give mea wizard But it doesn't even matter if
it's part of the story or evenif it's a part of a movie.
If they put a wizard battle inDriving Miss Daisy, I would be like,
(26:29):
yeah, what we need at thismoment. Uh So, I absolutely
love this one. And I thinkthe animation was just next level for time
on that. Yeah, and it'sbecause you could. It's just the way
that they keep the characteristics, thecolor, just the the instantaneous transitions.
It was. It was so good. I love that bit. But one
thing, like Darren, you talkedabout how John would have benefited from watching
(26:52):
it with a young kid. Iwatched it with my two year old and
we don't show her that much TVor movies, because honestly, she doesn't
really have that much interest in moviesand TV. And if we do watch,
if we do watch something with her, she'll stay for like ten minutes
and then go and play. Shewatched the entire movie with me. Is
the first time she was right inher spot? Yeah? Yeah, like
(27:15):
this, I feel like this isprobably the first time she's ever watched an
entire movie from beginning to end.And I mean her eyes were glued on
the screen the entire time. AndI think, honestly, it was because
it was a collection of gags,it was a collection of bits. It
was it was that thing like,is this a great story? No?
Is it well written? No?Is it well voice acted? No?
Is it? Is it animated beautifully? Yes? Is it entertaining for a
(27:40):
child? Yes? And I thinkthat's the thing, is that, like
we need to put that in putthat kind of thing in perspective. And
also, this was made for threemillion dollars and earned twelve I mean that's
huge. Yeah, No, itearned it had a lot of re releases
back and so it earned four pointseven five on its initial release and then
two point five when it was reallyreleased in seventy two and twelve when it
(28:04):
was rereleased in eighty three, soit all like twenty two but still a
four point seventy five over a threemill budget. It's still like that's almost
doubling your money. So that's notwell not quite, but it's still that's
profitable. Check that makin there,Darren. Yeah, I it's it just
(28:25):
does whatever I wanted to do.But but the thing is, this is
from the era, you know,obviously pre videotape and everything, So all
you need to do is knock itout, and so long as it makes
more than its budget, and youand people and you get another couple million.
Oh yeah, I saw that whenI was three. Is it any
Oh? I can take my kidto go see it, and it's it's
(28:48):
the same thing that they do nowwhen they have the two rare rereleases of
things where it used to I meanDisney it was great Star is the sixtieth
anniversary, so they could release something. They will probably do something this December.
Well not this December, highly highlydoubt it, because Disney's movie division
(29:10):
is every run by just fools.But I think that there's a you know,
I mean the first time I sawFantasia was in the movie theater because
it was the Disney Vault and theyopened it up and my dad was like,
oh yeah, we'll go see Fantasiain the movie theater. Oh my
gosh. And I still remember therow I sat in and the friends that
we took and how mad my dadgot because I kept having to go to
(29:32):
the bathroom every twenty minutes. Andthat's probably why I developed the whole thing
about not going to the bathroom duringmovies. But then there's this whole thing
where so long as it's not acomplete flop, like it costs three million
and then you make one million back, you can bring it back every so
often, and there you go.This is I hate to put it this
(29:55):
way, but this is basically astraight to video philosophy before video came out.
We need something where we can rereleaseit every so often in the lean
months when we don't have a newrelease, just to keep our name in
people's brain. It's it's got ketch, you know, and it's very formulaic.
It's got catchy Disney songs. It'slike you're saying tristed. It's very
brightly animated. I mean, Merlin'salways in blue. You know, Madam
(30:19):
Mim is always in pink. Arthur'salways in like orange or red, and
it's like boom boom boom primary colors. Uh you know. Yeah, And
I again on the Wizard Duel,I love that Merlin always has his mustache
or beard and Madam min always haslike her hair and no matter what type
of animals she's becoming. And again, that's just I think a really big
(30:44):
animation flex of the creativity of thatsequence is really really well done. You're
like, oh, what are theygonna make next? And Madam MIM's like
kind of has the upper hand forlike the vast majority. She's picking the
stronger animals and the bigger animals.And then at the end he gets her
with a germ, which is hilarious. We just learned what those are in
nineteen sixty three, so that's greatput it in the movie. I was
(31:07):
just kidding. I don't know whenthat happened. Did any of you guys
actually read the book The Sword inthe Stone? Nope? Okay, it's
just like this right, like linefor mine. Yeah, I mean,
like, okay, so in thein the book that he does Merlin does
transform Arthur into animals Okay, there'ssomething. So it wasn't an invention of
(31:29):
the of the of the movie.I mean the bird that I mean.
I think it was something like ait's like a rabbit or a badger or
something like that. Like it wassome streamlined and Disney fight it. But
they streamlined Disney fight and everything likethat. I think he was a duck
at one point or a goose.But they also went on human adventures too,
you know, And but the wholesurrector stuff in the case stuff was
(31:52):
very similar. Like he was justlike, oh he was a squire.
They went to London and he's like, oh my god, you know,
like I forgot a sword and gookay. So the reason for drawing the
sword is the same from the legendI do it was. It was so
long ago since I read it,but I think though. So what's interesting
to me though, is that therewas a live action adaptation that was supposed
(32:15):
to come out, but I haven'theard news of it since since twenty eighteen,
so it's twenty twenty three as werecord this. That's an eternity in
film development. That was a Sorcerer'sApprentice movie that was similar ish, like
it had Merlin and something in itthat was like early odts, but I
barely know. I know there wasone called the Merlin Saga that was that
(32:39):
was supposed to come out where thiswas going to be folded into it where
they were going to take Merlin andall of these different stories and then make
it a Disney Plus series or something. But I doubt that's gonna really doubt,
yeah happened at this point. Wellbut yeah, but at the end
of it, you have I think, like we said, there's a there's
a lot of chunks bits that areare are strung together, you know.
(33:02):
I mean, there's the bit abouthim talking about the future, there's the
bit of you know them like yousaid, them going to London, and
but it is funny. It's gothumor in it, you know, the
h the when sir you know,sir Kay and answer actor are like in
the washtub being like, you know, washed by the magical brushes. Like
(33:24):
that's funny, Like I get that, Like that's very you know, that's
sixties level the Disney humor. Butyeah, it's it's an interesting beginning to
our journey into the Arthurian legend becauseit's almost kind of like a like a
footnote at the beginning because it's Imean, we'll talk about later, we'll
get into next because that's going tobe another interesting saga choice. But I
(33:47):
mean it in all honesty, I'mglad that we started here because it's it
shows that the Arthur legend is onethat I know that myself and a lot
of other people are very familiar within one way or another. I've never
seen this. I love seeing somethingnew when it's podcast had homework, so
(34:10):
cool. But at the same time, what also makes it interesting is it
shows how once something enters the publicdomain, it's really up for grabs,
and I think that really makes forsome interesting possibilities. And so starting with
an animated feature from the sis,But I mean that was the vibe.
(34:35):
You know that it makes sense thatthis is a Disney movie, that this
is how you started out, becauseit's gonna be very soft, It's gonna
be very kid friendly, which iswhat a fairy tale is. You tell
kids fairy tales, and Arthur isbasically a fairy tale at this point in
history at least, and it's it'sit's there's no Knights of the Round Table,
there's no like he just becomes kingat the last act. It it
(35:00):
is, like you said, focusingon that Merlin trials, not trials adventures
with Merlin at the very beginning,but kind of like, oh man,
making me think of Hercules now,because Hercules had his trials. But they
also after that movie spun off awhole Disney animated show that was back in
(35:21):
the pre buff Hercules. It's likeskinny Hercules, but he's going on all
these trials and adventures of the laborsof Hercules as they were, and that
was a fun idea. You know. Animation quality wasn't quite there because it
was a TV show and that's whatyou got in the nineties. But I
always I always loved those those ninetiesDisney animated shows, like they did One
for a Ladd and that was reallygood. Mermaide I really, man,
(35:45):
why are those on Disney Plus?I think they are. I think is
the elating one on Disney Plus,given given what they available on Disney Plus.
I'm honestly surprised Sword in the Stonewas on Disney Plus. Right,
you know what, Listen, DisneyPlus has been a disappointment of a service,
and so I'm just pleased that theyhad this so okay, and until
(36:07):
I get hot lead and cold feet, I will continue to complain. So
there you go. Now what Iknow that we're we're about to give our
ratings and and and everything like that. And we were talking about how this
is the beginning of our of ourwalk through the wing of Arthur. One
thing that I really wish we couldhave talked about, but it's not a
(36:30):
movie because it's a mini series.And it was a mini series called Merlin
starring Sam Neil. Did you guysever watch that? Oh, that's the
one with like the he's like lookingthrough the reflection of the blade, like
that's I recognize that it's a purplecover. It's a purple box art and
he's looking through the blade. Nevernever saw but what I was it on?
(36:51):
I've heard of it. I thinkit was NBC that like that early
nineties. Everything's like sword and sorcery, like every very hercules zena. Everything
was hot. Right then, somethingin my brain that says, I want
to remember an ad for it,but near I've never watched it. It
you guys like, while we're Iknow we have a lot to watch with
(37:12):
this, but if you have theoption to watch it, if you have
the time watch it and and thenmaybe we could have like a little footnote,
like maybe like like like five minutes, ten minutes. I mean it's
one hundred and eighty two minutes.It's like, I think it's only two
parts. So it's only two parts. It's only two parts, and we
talk about it. There's more ofit coming back to me. I remember
ads for it. Martin Short's init, and yeah, wait, well
(37:37):
ninety eight, so we could wecould stick it in our in our queue
somewhere we got I mean, it'snot it's not really good. No,
it's it's not a it's not amotion picture by a director on a topic.
So yeah, let's you know,maybe when we uh summarize at the
beginning of the next episode, wecan, yeah, just try to touch
(37:57):
like that. Like honestly, Ithink you guys should. Yeah, came
out and nineteen ninety eight, andif you got connected more to the Merlin
side of this story, because youknow that it's it's very much a Merlin
story than an Arthur story. It'sit's very much a Merlin story, but
it does the Arthur story very well. And I think that's why that's why
I would love for you guys towatch it and we could just talk about
(38:19):
it a little bit, just forin contrast to some other stuff that we're
talking about. John Gielgud's did it? M Richer power, isn't it?
Miranda Richardson, Isabella Rosanini, hanldBottom Carter, She's a great job.
Okay, I don't know why Ididn't watch this. Oh wait ninety eight
Okay, I no, I didn'twatch it. All right, it's it's
it's genuinely good. So if anybodywho's listening to this, if you have
(38:40):
the option to watch it, watchit. It's on iTunes. I had
the VHS, but I also havethe iTunes one, So yeah, anyway,
just say no, that's a greatidea. Yeah, And I mean,
like you said, this is agood time to kind of dabble into
that as we're kind of slowly gettingthe ball rolling with the Arthurian legend.
But this was fun. I'm gladwe kind of discussed this. You know,
(39:01):
we don't get to talk about animationor Disney very often because it just
doesn't really come up with our choices. So and I'm glad John you got
a chance to see it for thefirst time and uh, you know,
check that box on letterbox. So, John, any other final thoughts or
your final raking on the Sword inthe Stone? Did you ever go to
(39:23):
Disneyland and try to pull it out? Of course? Yeah, it's right
in front of the carousel. Yeah, of course. There are a couple
of photos, like I didn't needto see the movie. It's like I
ever picked as the guy to trythat never succeeded. No, No,
we always planned whenever we had aan annual pass that would be a gift
(39:45):
from Grandma and grandpa, Like wewould go and it was never during showtime.
It was always very Yeah, wewould always sneak up. It was
like, oh look picture time,Okay, go I never got the stone
the sword out of the stone.Very pointing. But yeah, my final
rating and I'm prepared for the hatredhere it's okay, it's a two.
(40:12):
This is I'm not going to revisitthis. There are some cute moments.
There's an emotionally traumatized squirrel that I'llnever forget, and the wizard battles pretty
good, but yeah, not aclassic. There's a you know, I'm
like, okay, it's really it'sit's a two. All right, Tristan
pop up with that old VHS thatI know you have copies of. I
(40:37):
know it was a little more ofa classic to you. But overall,
as we are beginning our Arthenian legend, how do you rank the Sword in
the Stone? I think I giveit a three because of the intended audience.
I'm really trying to focus on theintended audience here, because this was
not built for us of today,Like this wasn't built for twenty twenty three
(41:00):
adults. This was built for youngkids. And this was made in the
sixties during the xerox era. AndI probably would be saying something different if
I didn't watch it with my twoyear old, who was just enamored with
it, who is not enamored withanything on the screen. And so I
give it a three for that reasons. But I'm, you know, like,
(41:20):
as an adult looking at it fromstory structure and looking at it from
a production standpoint, besides the animationand everything like that, I probably lean
more towards John's rating, But I'mgiving it a three. Oh right,
yeah, for me. The onlyfunny thing about the Wizards duel is I
the way Metamim talks about it atthe beginning, I'm like, am I
supposed to know what this is?Like? It sounds like this is a
(41:43):
thing, Like did I miss whenwe talked about what this was before?
Because she's so like, what doyou want a wizard to do? I'm
like, what is that? Like? Why do I not know what that
is? But yeah, that's thehighlight of the movie for sure. I'm
also going to give it a two. I totally get what you're saying,
trust and on. You know,it is shiny colors and talking animals,
(42:04):
so it's you know, it's greatfor the kids. For some reason,
my brain as I kept watching thiskept jumping to like The Robin Hood Legend,
which I think is a vastly superiormovie on teaching a legend of this
era. I mean, obviously different, different time period, but as far
as telling an old story, itkills this one. This one's like nowhere,
(42:27):
nowhere closed. So I'm also goingto give it a two. But
that means our ratings can only goup from here, will they? Who
knows? Because next week we're jumpingto nineteen seventy five as we continue in
the Wing of King Arthur with TerryGilliams. Monty, Python, and the
Holy Grail Join the Revolution. Jointhe Nerd Party,
Welcome to the nerd Party. Welcomeback to Houselights, our director discussion show
(00:23):
here on the Nerd Party Network.Today we are starting the Wing of King
Arthur. We will traverse through sixmotion pictures that tell the Authurian legend from
nineteen sixty three to twenty seventeen,starting with The Sword and the Stone by
Walt Disney Pictures and directed by WolfgangReitherman. I'm sir Darren Moser, and
(00:44):
I'm joined by my friends, groundskeeperof the Sword in the Anvil Garden,
Tristan Riddell and magician jovial John Mills. Now it is rare that we cover
animated pictures here on Houselights, Soprepare yourself for fish, birds and squirrels
in The Sword and the Stone.Yes, John, you are are always
(01:06):
jovial John when we talk animated pictures. Oh, I thought it would just
be because I'm forgetful and now Ilive in a place that's prone to lots
of rain and weather inconveniences, buteither works. I love being known as
jovial, much like Merlin in thisfilm is very jovial and full of modern
(01:27):
twentieth century references. Despite when thestory is set, I mean, it's
we need to let the kids connectwith him. He needs to be the
favorite. Yes, well, andJohn, this is also the first time
you've seen this picture. It escapedyour viewing enjoyment throughout your youth. Did
(01:49):
the Disney channel not come on toyou know, Bob Iger not come out
with that sweater and you know havinga Disney Afternoon? No? No,
no, See, when I wasgrowing up, you had wide World of
Disney on all ABC on Sunday nights, and no, this never came onto
my radar. We were not abig Disney family. Like my dad and
(02:13):
my mom. They grew up withit and there was a respect for it,
but it was never anything that waseven after we had you know,
VCR and everything like that. Iwas deep in the tank for Star Wars
obviously and also for you know,the Star Trek movies and stuff like that.
So like by the time VHS camearound and was a thing, I
was sort of aging out. Isaw a black cauldron in the Man Theater
(02:36):
and you know, super poly boundplastic Disney VHS is that took up way
more space than any other VHS ofits type. You know, why why
not create more space in the landfillwith excessive packaging. It's always a good
way to go. But I thinkthat, like, like what's interesting is
when I was coming up, likeI loved like Tron and the Black Hole.
(02:58):
We saw the Black Cauldron in themovie theater or my dad and I
loved it, and then it Ijust sort of like aged out of it,
like a little too quickly, thatsort of thing. Yeah, what
about you, Tristan, is thisanother It's either one or the other,
right, either staple of the Tristanhousehold or never seen it. This was
probably my favorite animated Disney movie fora very long time when I was when
(03:23):
I was a wee lad, Iloved Arthurian Legend. I think it was
more just because I loved Wizards andthe Arthurian Legend more so than I liked
the movie. It was mainly justbecause I, like, I loved medieval
stuff and everything like that. Imean, my name is Tristan, you
know, you know my mother namedme after one of the knights of the
(03:43):
Round Table. And uh so,yes, whatever you want, you know,
So this was yeah, this,this one was one that I watched
all the time on that way toomuch plastic vhs. Yeah, and everything,
Like, I mean, it's seventynine minutes. Guys, I guarantee
this is gonna be the shortest our, theory and legend of the six we
(04:03):
cover by a long shot. Andone thing that I like, you know,
watching it on VIA speaking of theVHS and the plastic everything that watching
it on VHS, it's crazy thatit was. We were closer to the
original aspect ratio with the VHS thanwe are with the modern HD releases and
on Disney Plus. Because on DisneyPlus it's all cropped to sixty by nine.
(04:27):
I mean even in the theater itwas one point seven five, but
now it's I mean it's originally wasthe Academy ratio of one point three seven,
and so we on the VHS wehad it on one point three three.
And it's just I hate when theydo that. You think, like
with Disney Plus, it would belike, no, like, let's let's
give out the versions in every inchof animation, like it's there, there's
detail on the frame. They're busytaking up that bandwidth offering you the IMAX
(04:50):
versions of the MCU movies. Yeah, because what are you gonna do with
that at home? What do youwhat do you don't have any What did
Schindler say, Like, man,we got nineteen more lines of pixels the
theater? Oh man, oh yes, well resolution lines are not the only
(05:13):
thing we're talking about here on houselights. But yeah, this one for
me, I don't think we ownedit on VHS, but I did catch
it, you know, Wonderful World, Disney and those kinds of things.
I was much from this kind ofsixties seventies era. I was much more
a Robin Hood guy like that waswhat I love that story, and that,
(05:34):
you know, was also what introducedme to that legend. As this
movie I think probably introduced a lotof people too, the Artherian legend like
it. Now I want to talkabout factual as far as the legend goes,
probably not the best source to bekidding your information from, but it
does have Arthur. He does pullthe sword out of the stone, and
(05:56):
it's kind of like and then turnedthe page to hear the rest of the
story. You know, we don'twe don't cover that. We just get
up to the pulling of the sword. What fantastical adventures he had with Merlin
before that even happened. But yeah, yeah, yeah, you know it's
sort of like watching the movie JurassicPark and reading the book Jurassic Park.
(06:17):
You know, there's similarities, butyeah, there's some liberalities taken with the
storytelling naturally. But I think thatthis is and this is coming out as
somebody looking at it for the firsttime. The overall experience is was very
detached for me in the sense thatthe whole time I was watching it,
it very much plays for this firsttime viewer as an artifact of its time.
(06:43):
Okay, this is I think youmade the joke earlier, Darren.
We got to make something for thekids to relate to. This is very
much a Hey, we're Disney,how do we do this? What's public
domain? What can we do?And somebody said, well, there's King
Arthur everybody. You can make KingArthur for nothing and you don't have to
pay anybody in nothing. It's okay, great, all right, let's put
that into development. Just have ascript by the end of the week,
(07:05):
and let's start storyboarding this thing likeit even has that old schooly very hand
drawn field where even in some ofthe frames you can see some of the
guide shapes still in some hair andxerox era, which is kind of that
early sixties where basically to save costsand to speed production, instead of the
(07:28):
process where they would take the pencilsketches and then transfer them onto like a
clean cell, they instead would justdraw right over them, and so you
get and also you know, youor you'd make a photocopy and then you
would draw over that one. Butso, yeah, you see that in
you know, one hundred one Dalmatiansa lot you see that in aristic hats,
(07:50):
this kind of late six you know, early sixties, early seventies era.
And then it starts to kind ofto peter out to speak on our
director for a second. So WolfKing rather man, he's been there since
the beginning. He was an animatoron snow White. He's done many many
pictures, some of his first directedone where he was not just an animation
(08:13):
director, but the director was onehundred one Dalmatians, which is what predates
this movie. He also did JungleBook, which you'll catch some of the
similar voices. So you have likesir oh, certain, there's a lot
of sirs in this one, U, sir ector. So the jolly man,
the father ish figure maybe so hedoes Bagheera's voice in the Jungle Book.
(08:39):
You also have you know Madam mimIs the Nanny and one hundred one
Dalmatians. You have the Owl wasthe voice of Rabbit for decades in the
Many Win of the Pooh. Sonot only did he do you know,
he also did The Aristocrats, directedRobin Hood and the Rescuers. So he
(09:00):
was kind of their sixties seventies guy. Well, he was known. He
was one of the original nine OldMen. Oh, you're right, you're
right in the in in that Disneyera and he was he was also this
director was the This was the firstanimated film to have a single director in
Disney. Oh okay, I didn'trealize that. And so this this guy
(09:22):
has seen some things. He's beenthrough it like he shaped history, he
shaped our childhoods like this, thisguy knows what he's doing and what he
was talking about. And also likespeaking of familiar voices like with Surrector Sebastian
Cabot. I loved it, likebecause in the in the movie he says
hold it kay, you know,to sir Kay, And in Jungle Book
(09:43):
he says hold it car in thesame exact way, like in the same
exact cadence, and everything like that. I just absolutely love that little that
little tidbit. Oh yeah. Thevoice cast, I think in this is
is really like will you hear thatMerlin? And like that's many people's first
Merlin. Like they're just and there'snot a very big cast. It's actually
(10:05):
a very small amount of players inthis story, but it seems to work.
What did you think of the overallsound of it, John, You
know, it sounded the way thatI expected Disney movie from this era to
sound. And I know that's fair. I know that sounds dismissive. Uh
huh, but it really has thatfeel of sound booth, a sound booth.
(10:28):
B Yeah, you know, SebastianCabot came in and gave us a
couple hours. Let's just run withit. It wasn't what later era animation
winds up being where the character animationslike Robin Williams and Little Mermaid and that
kind of it's not it's not tailoredfor the performance. This is And I'm
not saying this to be dismissive ofthe voice talent because Sebastian Cabot I have
(10:52):
a special place in my heart becauseif anybody is old enough to remember the
album series Golden Throats, which iswhere we first got to William Shatner's musical
forays, as well as Leonard Nimoy's. He did a spoken word album that
included a version of Bob Dylan's itAin't Me Babe, and I'll tell you
it's a treat for the senses tolisten to that thing. So whenever I
(11:16):
think Sebastian Cabin, I think that, but these are really these are their
different voices, well, their voicesalso where and I'm trying to try to
very fine line, but it didn'tmatter who was doing the voice. Yeah,
Aladdin is substantially different. If RobinWilliams is not doing the Genie,
or if any of those other voiceswere cast differently, it is absolutely a
(11:41):
different film. It's a different filmin Beauty and the Beast if they don't
get the voice talent that they haveLittle Mermaid. So many things are key
in that from you know, Andand it's it's difficult because I do not
belittle what these actors did, Butat the same time, there was nothing
that to my ear was particularly spelabout what they brought to it. Now
(12:01):
I hear that, I mean itBesides Arthur and Merlin and like Archimedes,
maybe Madam mim as well, likethe other players, like they almost don't
have names, like they're they mean, they have names, but they're very
forgettable in the fact that they're justkind of pushing the story along. They're
almost background. But and yeah,so for Ricky Sorensen, who did the
(12:26):
voice of Arthur, I think,you know, did fairly well for a
younger voice. You know, he'sspeaking throughout almost pretty much the entire picture,
so that but again he's in soundboost a maybe not saund Booth b
with with Merlin. Three people didArthur's voice throughout the movie, and there
(12:48):
are certain times when you can reallytell. Okay, that makes more sense.
I was looking at the list andI got confused. I'm like,
why are there so many? Arethey all start with R? It's Ricky
sper have a first first our nameand a last our name as a prerequisite
for being Arthur. I guess,yes, well, yeah it was.
(13:09):
It was like you can really tellwhen like they're in the throne room and
he says he's like I wish Merlinwas here, and it's a completely different
person, Like it doesn't even soundanything like Arthur from the from the from
previous scenes. It's a I'm notquite sure why they did that, because
it's not just like, oh,they did it in this part and then
(13:30):
this part, like it goes backand forth. It might have been the
length of production, because I thinkthey took like three or four years to
make each one of these movies,So it could just be their voice aged
out and they needed a new squeakykid voice. Well that's even in and
of itself. I like I detecteda different tone, but I I didn't
hear it as a completely distinct voice. I chalked up the difference in voicing
(13:56):
in all honesty too, because Ididn't look at the credits that the you
know, they brought the actor backin to do some stuff and the sound
engineer just miked him up wrong orsomething like that. Whatever, just go
with it. So that's like whatit sounded like to my ear. So
I'll give them credit at the veryleast that it just sounded like a sound
engineering problem as opposed to completely differentpeople to me. So, but I
(14:20):
have old ears since we're talking aboutthe sound. Well, one thing that
bugged the crap out of me evenas a child, and I counted it
this time while watching it was whenhe falls and you hear the whoo,
whoa, whoa. They used thesame audio of that seven times, and
(14:41):
I just don't understand why it wasseven like twice. Okay, all right,
I guess you're in a pinch andyou don't want to bring him back
seven time falls. That's the exactsame sound effect. Well, that would
I think speak to again. Thatwhole idea of the voice talent was simply
give me the lines that I needand I'll just patch them where I need
(15:03):
to. I'm just going to spotthis as opposed to tailoring anything, because
what what is odd about that tome is that says to me, they
didn't really have a lot of takes. It's not like they said, Okay,
give me a fall, give meslightly different, give me more energy
the fall, and that is yourfall. And that they recorded it once
and kept going instead of having sevenseven different versions of it and seven different
(15:26):
inflections. And that would speak toan economy of production cost more than anything.
So okay, so we're introduced tothis story. It's you know,
we get this interesting minstrel song atthe beginning, kind of setting the stage
where it's like, you know,classic opened the book and you know it's
(15:50):
a Disney movie. It's it's like, hey, here's a story and England.
It's very very simple. It's likeEngland War, Sword of the Stone.
You know, it's a little tune. They didn't have a king and
they didn't know what to do.Yeah, they didn't know what to do.
And then they and some of thosebackgrounds were from Sleeping Beauty Gears.
They totally forgot some really quickly.They forgot about the Sword and the Stone.
(16:12):
Yeah, Like as I was like, I remember in preparation for this
podcast, like when I was watchingit and they said, they're like,
oh and it was quickly forgotten.I was like, wait, how long
were they without a Yeah, I'mkind of wondered about that too, but
you know, it doesn't matter.Keep on moving. Here we go,
Magic, Merlin, Hippity Kimmity.Yeah, so we get you know,
(16:33):
Archimedes and and Merlin. Archimedes asan owl and that talks and it's a
Disney movie talking animals. Check thebox. But yeah, so he was
my favorite part. I'm sorry.Archimedes was my only adults He's the only
adult in this whole movie. Likeas a kid, I don't know who
(16:55):
it was it was, might havebeen Madam mim buts as a as an
adult, Archimedes I truly enjoyed andjust like the who what what? Like
I can't tell you how many timesthat's in my head and how many times
they say it out loud. Atleast a couple of times a year.
Oh, I'm surprised, but yeah, like it's with Archimedes, like you
(17:17):
like you could just see how frustratedhe was with everything and then he's just
like fine, I will do it, you know, like he he just
kind of takes it up. Andthen Merlin leaves he fs off, like
he goes to Bermuda, but Archimedesstays with him, Like I kind of
want to see that relationship a littlebit more. Like Archimedes is the one
who teaches them how to fly andthen sticks with him and then you know,
(17:40):
like you know, he becomes kingand like he's coordinated. It goes
through his coronation and like Archimedes isthere, Merlin's not. Yeah, They're
like, okay, so your advisoris the bird. Okay, yes,
sir, you pulled that sword,so sure, Yeah, now and I'm
assuming that Merlin did some sort ofspell to make him be able to talk.
(18:03):
Like he's the only talking creature inthis entire movie, even the birds
and fish and you know, squirrelsdon't talk like well, they giggle,
but they you know, they don'thave I love conversation Tylor's performance as the
little girl squirrel, like I lovedto say that. You know, I'm
(18:23):
a sucker for that. Every singletime Yeah tells all the Mickey Mouse sing
It's like I'm not actually saying something, but you can tell I have I
have thought. Yes, it's aninteresting sequence. It was a little odd
because I don't know if this isa sign of the film not engaging me
entirely. But I'm sitting there inmy head because I'm I'm I'm old.
(18:48):
Now fine, I get it,and I go my brain goes in direction.
You should have watched with young childrento really get like a feel for
I promise you my okay, firstand foremost my two oldest or teenagers,
steady. I'm not saying I don'tbet you had an option, but even
my youngest would have not dug this. This is not her speed whatsoever.
(19:10):
And but that whole squirrel sequence.Like I get what they were going for.
It's a cute see you know,boys and girls fall in love sort
of thing. But it was soweird because I was sitting there and I
was like Marlin, like, I'mlike going down the moral implications of like,
she's a squirrel. At the endof the day, he's still a
human. Okay, I want tobring that up. Okay, John,
(19:33):
because you texted me about this asyou're watching it and I hadn't seen it.
What was it? What was thetext I need? I needed to
give me a feel for it.Okay, give me the gist. The
gist was, and i'll i'll phraseit appropriately. Is it morally appropriate for
(19:55):
an old man to push a youngboy to how sexual relations with a squirrel,
even if he is a squirrel temporarilyhimself? Oh? Man, So
the real question, fair question.It's a fair question. That is a
fair question. And that's the thingthough, is that, like, man,
I don't remember that, and soI, as I was watching it,
(20:15):
I was really looking for it.And I think you completely blew that
out of proportion because I did.I was looking for it because like Merlin,
he doesn't say, oh yeah,you know, going the back and
you know, like you know,like show this snow girl squirrel what he's
just like, she doesn't know,she's she's like Merlin said, she doesn't
she doesn't know. And he justkind of used it as a jumping off
(20:37):
point of saying, like, youknow, lake love is a powerful thing
and you know everything like that.He didn't say like you know, you
know, give it to her now. That's true. And the thing is,
I'm glad you bring up the textmessage because I was just kidding around.
But it's good that we bring itup here because it's but it's one
of those things where, like youlook at it, it's like, you
know, at the end of theday though, like the emotional torment that
(21:00):
that little girl squirrel winds up feelingat the end of it, like they're
a little too of him. She'swere broken and they little too effective here,
and they hang on it like theydon't just hand wave it away like
they're like, oh, yeah,no, we did some stuff to this
to this little girl squirrel. She'snot gonna need therapy. Yeah, this
little girl squirrel is probably never goingto find a boy squirrel to settle down
(21:22):
with. They find one and thenthey stick with him, so it's like,
sorry, you picked the human forthe hour, he was a squirrel
boy, and now you're out ofluck. Well, despite what John claims,
they never consummated the relationship. SoI think he'll she'll be able to
find something else. Okay. Seethis is where this is where my sense
(21:42):
of humor always gets me in trouble. But also like I I even feel
bad for the the Was it abarracouta that goes after him as a fish,
because it's what, Yeah, it'spretty much a barracud It looks like
I think it was just a pike. Yeah, okay, whatever, It's
like asking me to name what typeof tree it is. I'm like,
scary fish, barracouta. Sure,it's one of those things. Were like
(22:06):
even the barracouta. They're like,the thing's just doing what it's supposed to
nature. And you know, ifyou could, if you're gonna be an
idiot and turn yourself into a fishand make yourself vulnerable to predators, I
mean, hey, look at thedraw man and Merlin is like, no,
you gotta figure it out on yourown. I can't help you.
Okay, you've never been a fishbefore you got to figure out how to
(22:27):
get through. It was the weirdestset of trials I think they could have
come up with too. It was, and it's I'm just being funny about
it, obviously, it's it's it'sdone intentionally and for the laugh and everything
like that, but it's again,I think it's one of those things that
just leaves it as a product ofits time more than anything else. At
(22:48):
least the bird one makes sense withArchimedes, like because he takes over that
and like that actually makes sense.And but yeah, the fish one,
I mean, and there's that wolfalso that's kind of like lurking around.
Like it's a really interesting set oftrials, like you said, and the
wizard battle will get to that.But I liked the wolf because it was
(23:11):
a passive antagonist, right, likeaudience knows of the fear more than he
does, right, And he wasjust kind of an oath because I always
hate it, like when they showwolves as evildoers in movies, because wolves
will straight up leave you alone ifyou don't leave them alone. But with
(23:33):
this one, it was it wasreally much just going for the joke,
and he was just like he wasjust opening his mouth hoping that he'd get
a morsel of something, and he'sjust like, ah shucks. Now see
that's humor that works for me.Yeah, that's the type of humor that
that's me as a little boy sittingwith my dad and we would have laughed
at something like that. That isabsolutely up my alley. I love that
sort of thing. I agree withyou. The wolf works very well because
(23:56):
I think that it's nice that theybring it through as well so that when
he's a squirrel, the poll showsback up and so the wolf isn't pursuing
him per se. It's just thewolf is you know, it's outing a
bad day. He's trying so hardand you feel for him. Yeah,
he's not trying to be a jerkor anything. He's obviously a little undernourished
here and just just trying to geta meal. Yeah. So I would
(24:19):
love to ask you guys about thestructure of this of this movie. And
I know that this if it feelsso weird to have this intense of a
conversation about, you know, aneighty minute kids movie, but I was
you know, this this movie isso different in memory than it is an
(24:40):
execution. I think for me,because nostalgia wise, I was just like,
oh, the Sword in the Stone, you know, the legend of
Arthur and Merlin, it's so fantastic, And then when you watch this movie
it's not. It's not that,it's not that story at all. The
meat of it is just him becominga fish and then becoming a squirrel and
(25:00):
then becoming a bird. Like that'sthe story. That's the movie. And
then it ends with a wizard battleessentially, and the Arthurian stuff is just
literally bookends. Yes, and Imean almost there. For the whole Sword
in the Stone part, you almostget. Would you even go so far
as to say protagonist confusion of Merlin, Like Arthur is kind of just along
(25:22):
for the ride. He doesn't reallyguide his own destiny for the majority of
this movie, I would say structurewise, it's a movie that I would
say that this strikes me as standardfor what I would classify as the lesser
Disney films, which is it's justa collection of gags. It's what can
(25:45):
we do the sences of the transformationfirst, and they're like, how do
we fit this into the Arthur They'renot trying to tell a story, they're
trying to do. That's so spoton. That's exactly what this is.
It's a collection of it. It'sa collection of gags. But the thing,
even the wizard battle doesn't make whatdoes that have to do with Arthur.
That's that's gag number four. Andyeah, you know, and the
(26:08):
and the laundry or the dishwashing sequenceand the like, every every bit is
a bit. Yeah that, butthat that wizard battle. I freaking love
wizard battles in it. Give mea wizard But it doesn't even matter if
it's part of the story or evenif it's a part of a movie.
If they put a wizard battle inDriving Miss Daisy, I would be like,
(26:29):
yeah, what we need at thismoment. Uh So, I absolutely
love this one. And I thinkthe animation was just next level for time
on that. Yeah, and it'sbecause you could. It's just the way
that they keep the characteristics, thecolor, just the the instantaneous transitions.
It was. It was so good. I love that bit. But one
thing, like Darren, you talkedabout how John would have benefited from watching
(26:52):
it with a young kid. Iwatched it with my two year old and
we don't show her that much TVor movies, because honestly, she doesn't
really have that much interest in moviesand TV. And if we do watch,
if we do watch something with her, she'll stay for like ten minutes
and then go and play. Shewatched the entire movie with me. Is
the first time she was right inher spot? Yeah? Yeah, like
(27:15):
this, I feel like this isprobably the first time she's ever watched an
entire movie from beginning to end.And I mean her eyes were glued on
the screen the entire time. AndI think, honestly, it was because
it was a collection of gags,it was a collection of bits. It
was it was that thing like,is this a great story? No?
Is it well written? No?Is it well voice acted? No?
Is it? Is it animated beautifully? Yes? Is it entertaining for a
(27:40):
child? Yes? And I thinkthat's the thing, is that, like
we need to put that in putthat kind of thing in perspective. And
also, this was made for threemillion dollars and earned twelve I mean that's
huge. Yeah, No, itearned it had a lot of re releases
back and so it earned four pointseven five on its initial release and then
two point five when it was reallyreleased in seventy two and twelve when it
(28:04):
was rereleased in eighty three, soit all like twenty two but still a
four point seventy five over a threemill budget. It's still like that's almost
doubling your money. So that's notwell not quite, but it's still that's
profitable. Check that makin there,Darren. Yeah, I it's it just
(28:25):
does whatever I wanted to do.But but the thing is, this is
from the era, you know,obviously pre videotape and everything, So all
you need to do is knock itout, and so long as it makes
more than its budget, and youand people and you get another couple million.
Oh yeah, I saw that whenI was three. Is it any
Oh? I can take my kidto go see it, and it's it's
(28:48):
the same thing that they do nowwhen they have the two rare rereleases of
things where it used to I meanDisney it was great Star is the sixtieth
anniversary, so they could release something. They will probably do something this December.
Well not this December, highly highlydoubt it, because Disney's movie division
(29:10):
is every run by just fools.But I think that there's a you know,
I mean the first time I sawFantasia was in the movie theater because
it was the Disney Vault and theyopened it up and my dad was like,
oh yeah, we'll go see Fantasiain the movie theater. Oh my
gosh. And I still remember therow I sat in and the friends that
we took and how mad my dadgot because I kept having to go to
(29:32):
the bathroom every twenty minutes. Andthat's probably why I developed the whole thing
about not going to the bathroom duringmovies. But then there's this whole thing
where so long as it's not acomplete flop, like it costs three million
and then you make one million back, you can bring it back every so
often, and there you go.This is I hate to put it this
(29:55):
way, but this is basically astraight to video philosophy before video came out.
We need something where we can rereleaseit every so often in the lean
months when we don't have a newrelease, just to keep our name in
people's brain. It's it's got ketch, you know, and it's very formulaic.
It's got catchy Disney songs. It'slike you're saying tristed. It's very
brightly animated. I mean, Merlin'salways in blue. You know, Madam
(30:19):
Mim is always in pink. Arthur'salways in like orange or red, and
it's like boom boom boom primary colors. Uh you know. Yeah, And
I again on the Wizard Duel,I love that Merlin always has his mustache
or beard and Madam min always haslike her hair and no matter what type
of animals she's becoming. And again, that's just I think a really big
(30:44):
animation flex of the creativity of thatsequence is really really well done. You're
like, oh, what are theygonna make next? And Madam MIM's like
kind of has the upper hand forlike the vast majority. She's picking the
stronger animals and the bigger animals.And then at the end he gets her
with a germ, which is hilarious. We just learned what those are in
nineteen sixty three, so that's greatput it in the movie. I was
(31:07):
just kidding. I don't know whenthat happened. Did any of you guys
actually read the book The Sword inthe Stone? Nope? Okay, it's
just like this right, like linefor mine. Yeah, I mean,
like, okay, so in thein the book that he does Merlin does
transform Arthur into animals Okay, there'ssomething. So it wasn't an invention of
(31:29):
the of the of the movie.I mean the bird that I mean.
I think it was something like ait's like a rabbit or a badger or
something like that. Like it wassome streamlined and Disney fight it. But
they streamlined Disney fight and everything likethat. I think he was a duck
at one point or a goose.But they also went on human adventures too,
you know, And but the wholesurrector stuff in the case stuff was
(31:52):
very similar. Like he was justlike, oh he was a squire.
They went to London and he's like, oh my god, you know,
like I forgot a sword and gookay. So the reason for drawing the
sword is the same from the legendI do it was. It was so
long ago since I read it,but I think though. So what's interesting
to me though, is that therewas a live action adaptation that was supposed
(32:15):
to come out, but I haven'theard news of it since since twenty eighteen,
so it's twenty twenty three as werecord this. That's an eternity in
film development. That was a Sorcerer'sApprentice movie that was similar ish, like
it had Merlin and something in itthat was like early odts, but I
barely know. I know there wasone called the Merlin Saga that was that
(32:39):
was supposed to come out where thiswas going to be folded into it where
they were going to take Merlin andall of these different stories and then make
it a Disney Plus series or something. But I doubt that's gonna really doubt,
yeah happened at this point. Wellbut yeah, but at the end
of it, you have I think, like we said, there's a there's
a lot of chunks bits that areare are strung together, you know.
(33:02):
I mean, there's the bit abouthim talking about the future, there's the
bit of you know them like yousaid, them going to London, and
but it is funny. It's gothumor in it, you know, the
h the when sir you know,sir Kay and answer actor are like in
the washtub being like, you know, washed by the magical brushes. Like
(33:24):
that's funny, Like I get that, Like that's very you know, that's
sixties level the Disney humor. Butyeah, it's it's an interesting beginning to
our journey into the Arthurian legend becauseit's almost kind of like a like a
footnote at the beginning because it's Imean, we'll talk about later, we'll
get into next because that's going tobe another interesting saga choice. But I
(33:47):
mean it in all honesty, I'mglad that we started here because it's it
shows that the Arthur legend is onethat I know that myself and a lot
of other people are very familiar within one way or another. I've never
seen this. I love seeing somethingnew when it's podcast had homework, so
(34:10):
cool. But at the same time, what also makes it interesting is it
shows how once something enters the publicdomain, it's really up for grabs,
and I think that really makes forsome interesting possibilities. And so starting with
an animated feature from the sis,But I mean that was the vibe.
(34:35):
You know that it makes sense thatthis is a Disney movie, that this
is how you started out, becauseit's gonna be very soft, It's gonna
be very kid friendly, which iswhat a fairy tale is. You tell
kids fairy tales, and Arthur isbasically a fairy tale at this point in
history at least, and it's it'sit's there's no Knights of the Round Table,
there's no like he just becomes kingat the last act. It it
(35:00):
is, like you said, focusingon that Merlin trials, not trials adventures
with Merlin at the very beginning,but kind of like, oh man,
making me think of Hercules now,because Hercules had his trials. But they
also after that movie spun off awhole Disney animated show that was back in
(35:21):
the pre buff Hercules. It's likeskinny Hercules, but he's going on all
these trials and adventures of the laborsof Hercules as they were, and that
was a fun idea. You know. Animation quality wasn't quite there because it
was a TV show and that's whatyou got in the nineties. But I
always I always loved those those ninetiesDisney animated shows, like they did One
for a Ladd and that was reallygood. Mermaide I really, man,
(35:45):
why are those on Disney Plus?I think they are. I think is
the elating one on Disney Plus,given given what they available on Disney Plus.
I'm honestly surprised Sword in the Stonewas on Disney Plus. Right,
you know what, Listen, DisneyPlus has been a disappointment of a service,
and so I'm just pleased that theyhad this so okay, and until
(36:07):
I get hot lead and cold feet, I will continue to complain. So
there you go. Now what Iknow that we're we're about to give our
ratings and and and everything like that. And we were talking about how this
is the beginning of our of ourwalk through the wing of Arthur. One
thing that I really wish we couldhave talked about, but it's not a
(36:30):
movie because it's a mini series.And it was a mini series called Merlin
starring Sam Neil. Did you guysever watch that? Oh, that's the
one with like the he's like lookingthrough the reflection of the blade, like
that's I recognize that it's a purplecover. It's a purple box art and
he's looking through the blade. Nevernever saw but what I was it on?
(36:51):
I've heard of it. I thinkit was NBC that like that early
nineties. Everything's like sword and sorcery, like every very hercules zena. Everything
was hot. Right then, somethingin my brain that says, I want
to remember an ad for it,but near I've never watched it. It
you guys like, while we're Iknow we have a lot to watch with
(37:12):
this, but if you have theoption to watch it, if you have
the time watch it and and thenmaybe we could have like a little footnote,
like maybe like like like five minutes, ten minutes. I mean it's
one hundred and eighty two minutes.It's like, I think it's only two
parts. So it's only two parts. It's only two parts, and we
talk about it. There's more ofit coming back to me. I remember
ads for it. Martin Short's init, and yeah, wait, well
(37:37):
ninety eight, so we could wecould stick it in our in our queue
somewhere we got I mean, it'snot it's not really good. No,
it's it's not a it's not amotion picture by a director on a topic.
So yeah, let's you know,maybe when we uh summarize at the
beginning of the next episode, wecan, yeah, just try to touch
(37:57):
like that. Like honestly, Ithink you guys should. Yeah, came
out and nineteen ninety eight, andif you got connected more to the Merlin
side of this story, because youknow that it's it's very much a Merlin
story than an Arthur story. It'sit's very much a Merlin story, but
it does the Arthur story very well. And I think that's why that's why
I would love for you guys towatch it and we could just talk about
(38:19):
it a little bit, just forin contrast to some other stuff that we're
talking about. John Gielgud's did it? M Richer power, isn't it?
Miranda Richardson, Isabella Rosanini, hanldBottom Carter, She's a great job.
Okay, I don't know why Ididn't watch this. Oh wait ninety eight
Okay, I no, I didn'twatch it. All right, it's it's
it's genuinely good. So if anybodywho's listening to this, if you have
(38:40):
the option to watch it, watchit. It's on iTunes. I had
the VHS, but I also havethe iTunes one, So yeah, anyway,
just say no, that's a greatidea. Yeah, And I mean,
like you said, this is agood time to kind of dabble into
that as we're kind of slowly gettingthe ball rolling with the Arthurian legend.
But this was fun. I'm gladwe kind of discussed this. You know,
(39:01):
we don't get to talk about animationor Disney very often because it just
doesn't really come up with our choices. So and I'm glad John you got
a chance to see it for thefirst time and uh, you know,
check that box on letterbox. So, John, any other final thoughts or
your final raking on the Sword inthe Stone? Did you ever go to
(39:23):
Disneyland and try to pull it out? Of course? Yeah, it's right
in front of the carousel. Yeah, of course. There are a couple
of photos, like I didn't needto see the movie. It's like I
ever picked as the guy to trythat never succeeded. No, No,
we always planned whenever we had aan annual pass that would be a gift
(39:45):
from Grandma and grandpa, Like wewould go and it was never during showtime.
It was always very Yeah, wewould always sneak up. It was
like, oh look picture time,Okay, go I never got the stone
the sword out of the stone.Very pointing. But yeah, my final
rating and I'm prepared for the hatredhere it's okay, it's a two.
(40:12):
This is I'm not going to revisitthis. There are some cute moments.
There's an emotionally traumatized squirrel that I'llnever forget, and the wizard battles pretty
good, but yeah, not aclassic. There's a you know, I'm
like, okay, it's really it'sit's a two. All right, Tristan
pop up with that old VHS thatI know you have copies of. I
(40:37):
know it was a little more ofa classic to you. But overall,
as we are beginning our Arthenian legend, how do you rank the Sword in
the Stone? I think I giveit a three because of the intended audience.
I'm really trying to focus on theintended audience here, because this was
not built for us of today,Like this wasn't built for twenty twenty three
(41:00):
adults. This was built for youngkids. And this was made in the
sixties during the xerox era. AndI probably would be saying something different if
I didn't watch it with my twoyear old, who was just enamored with
it, who is not enamored withanything on the screen. And so I
give it a three for that reasons. But I'm, you know, like,
(41:20):
as an adult looking at it fromstory structure and looking at it from
a production standpoint, besides the animationand everything like that, I probably lean
more towards John's rating, But I'mgiving it a three. Oh right,
yeah, for me. The onlyfunny thing about the Wizards duel is I
the way Metamim talks about it atthe beginning, I'm like, am I
supposed to know what this is?Like? It sounds like this is a
(41:43):
thing, Like did I miss whenwe talked about what this was before?
Because she's so like, what doyou want a wizard to do? I'm
like, what is that? Like? Why do I not know what that
is? But yeah, that's thehighlight of the movie for sure. I'm
also going to give it a two. I totally get what you're saying,
trust and on. You know,it is shiny colors and talking animals,
(42:04):
so it's you know, it's greatfor the kids. For some reason,
my brain as I kept watching thiskept jumping to like The Robin Hood Legend,
which I think is a vastly superiormovie on teaching a legend of this
era. I mean, obviously different, different time period, but as far
as telling an old story, itkills this one. This one's like nowhere,
(42:27):
nowhere closed. So I'm also goingto give it a two. But
that means our ratings can only goup from here, will they? Who
knows? Because next week we're jumpingto nineteen seventy five as we continue in
the Wing of King Arthur with TerryGilliams. Monty, Python, and the
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