June 9, 2025 • 18 mins
Don't let social media posts fool you into thinking memorization is real knowledge! Just because children can repeat what you say or do doesn't mean they understand it. Join Cindy and Alison for a discussion about what real knowledge and understanding looks like and how to promote it.
- Check out our website: https://www.howpreschoolteachersdoit.com/
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- Learn more about Cindy's work, including professional development, family education, and consulting opportunities: https://hihello.com/hi/cindyterebush-RXMBKA
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Preschool Teachers Do It.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Alison Knto's I am an early childhood educator.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
And this is Cindy terror Bush. I am an early
childhood consultant.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This podcast is for parents and early childhood professionals.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Let our experience and research based knowledge become your guide.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hello preschool peeps, Hi peeps, welcome back. We record these
ahead of time, right, and so when this releases, it's
it's it's the second week of two.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah. I hope we're having good weather.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Then we should be.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I really hope that you're listening to this or watching
us on YouTube and it's good weather. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
If not, it's definitely coming. Yes, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's never going to stay like this forever, but I.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Do hope it's good.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We want to recognize some people, as we have been
doing at the beginning of our episodes, because I know
that there are pep who get a kick out of it.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Maybe your location will come up eventually too.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
As today we're shouting out Poland.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Hello Poland both No. One of my children was not
too long ago in Poland.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think, oh interesting, I've never been there, but I've
always wanted to see it. And we're also shouting out Washington,
d C.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Love me some Washington. From where we live. We can
take the amtrak.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh yeah, we can.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It's a great Amtrak ride to DC. I've done it
with my husband and I've done it professionally for conferences
that take place in DC. I also have a cousin
in d C. So hi, if you're there. Probably not,
but they don't have children yet. But maybe someday you
will be listening. You'll be like my cousin has you'll
(01:46):
have children. You'll be like my cousin has a podcast
about children. And I'm gonna shout you out, and you're
gonna be like, oh my gosh, shout us out years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
So hello.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And yeah, So thank you for listening. Spread the word
around Poland and Washington, DC that we are here and
that you enjoy this podcast. We love to see.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Our stats go up in that way.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Today's episode, What's Real Knowledge was inspired by things Allison
told me she saw, so I'm gonna just let you
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I have been seeing videos on social media of people
who try to get their children to repeat things to them,
calling that language development.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Imitation. Yeah, is a part of developing language.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, but I don't think it's the whole of it.
So this is more like then instead of having real
conversations with the children, they will say the exact same
phrase at the exact same time every day, and eventually
the child's like, oh, she's doing this, therefore I must
(03:01):
have to say this because she always says this at
this time. And they think like, oh, look, I taught
my child how to talk.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So is it like it's lunchtime every day? You say
do you want milk? Every and then the child will
eventually say I want milk, yes, just because you said
it yes, So like, is that what they're doing?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's what they're doing every day?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Think of a better example, because the child might actually
want milk. Think of a better example.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Like if if you go by a window every afternoon,
you would repeat the same thing, something like the birds
are flying by.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yes, you would repeat the same exact phrase and the
exact same wording every day as you pass that window,
and eventually the child passes the window and says the
same exact phrase that you've been saying every time you
pass the window, because they think, oh, well, i'm by
a window, I must have to say this.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So what you're teaching them is, then, is memorization and imitation,
both of which more no not, both of which I'm
gonna correct that imitation has value. Yeah, but we want
to depart from that. We need the children to sort
of take it and run.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, I also got a little concern watching this that like,
if this is the only way people are communicating with
their children, they're not really having real conversations. And I'm like, oh,
how sad for the children, because I'm like, just if
you just talk to them, they'll learn language, right, like so,
but just that's not real conversation. That's not modeling real communication.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You know what this sort of reminds me of.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There was a product years ago, okay that alleged, alleged, alleged,
alleged that it could teach babies to read. And so
you would hold up pictures like two pictures and name
(04:54):
what's on those pictures, like maybe I don't know, a cow.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And a flower, right, flower? Cowflower, cowflower, And.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Then you would say to the baby, who cannot speak yet,
which one is the cow, which one is the flower.
They would point and they would point, and people would
be like, my baby's reading.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
No, No, your baby's not reading. Your baby's not reading.
Your baby has memorized something.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Plus you tend to motion a certain way when you
want them to point to something. But it's reminding me
of that that people were thinking, Oh, I'm I taught
my child to read, when actually they had memorized things.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
That it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
If they can't take that information and use it randomly,
they have not learned it. It's the same for learning alphabet.
I could memorize ABCDF. If I show you a random
letter out of any kind of order and you can't
name it, you have not learned alphabet.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes, that is true. That is true.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Right, So, like you're saying, if all you're doing all
day is repeating phrases and you can't the child repeats,
says it it, but they can't take it out of
the context, right, and then come up with their own sentences.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Correct the children?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Is so in these videos you saw, yeah, the child
or children are not coming up with their own phrasing.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
No, they are repeating basically what they've kind of had
drilled into them. That like, when this situation occurs, we
say this because I say this every time, you know, like,
and that's there is no like thought of like what
we're saying, like, don't you want your child to think? Like, oh,
I want to say this now. But sometimes I feel
(06:38):
like the child thinks they can't say other things, like
they're not allowed to because we're by. We know we
must have to say the bird is flying right now
or whatever it is, and it's like no, it's it was.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
A very no.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
We want to have enriching conversation with children. Yes, Enriching
conversation with children encourages their input. Yes, it's when we
ask them good, open ended questions so that they have
to think.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Right, there's like no thinking going on to me.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yes, we want them to have to think about what
they're going to say. Yeah, we want them to express
original ideas. Yeah, imitation usually leads to pretend play though imitation.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
When you think about it, a lot of learning starts.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
As imitations, right, Yeah, but then we need the people
to be able.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
It's like planting seeds.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
We need to plant the seed with imitation sometimes, but
then we need to see if they can run with it.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
What can you do with this information now? Right?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Like yeah, because I think it applies to other things too, right,
I think it does apply to reading, Like you were saying, like,
you know how like children when they're at a certain age,
they like memorize the book.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
They do, they memorize the book, but they think that's
what you're doing when you read, right, But that doesn't
mean they're reading it right.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right, So like there's a difference between reading the word
and knowing what the pages mean. Right. So like there's
that like that's but that but that what did I say?
Like doing the whole like going by the pictures and
all that is part of reading development, Like they have
to go through that in order to get to the
next step, right, That's part of it. So I'm not
(08:14):
saying like they shouldn't be like repeating or imitating things,
but eventually it has to be like a building block
to like here's the next part right right, right, So
just having your child repeat a word every time you
walk by a window is it's not building anything. It's
just like, Okay, this is what we say and that's it,
(08:34):
and they're not. There's no thought, there's.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
No I think there are some situations where it's appropriate,
Like you teach children when someone hands your food, always
say thank.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Thank you, yes, right, yes, But eventually they should know
that that's just what we do, right, like and be
able to apply it on their own.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
They need to understand the meaning behind you, yes, and
if they do, children don't when you just say say
thank you or say I'm sorry, or say whatever, or
say hello, they don't understand the meaning behind it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Maybe that's the difference.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
That's the difference. Yea.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
They need to understand.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
When children understand the meaning behind what they're saying, then
they can expand upon it.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
If they're not expanding upon that imitation, then they don't
understand the meaning or the purpose of what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And so what's the point?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
What's the point?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
What is the point?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And to me, it's almost like you created this little
party trick. I think, like, hey, look at what my
child can do and say, but not actually teaching them
the real knowledge of things.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
The use of language is all about conversation. How complex
is your conversation, How long is your conversation, How much
back and forth? Young children can't do a lot of
back and forth and stay on the same topic for long, right,
So we want to constantly extend that back and forth.
And one of the ways we do that is by
asking them compelling questions, So, which is very different than
(10:02):
I'm going to make a statement and ask you.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
To repeat it.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It should be I'm going to ask you a compelling
question that makes you curious about either something in the
world or something you've done, and see what you say,
and then I'm going to say something back right.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And to me, like when you ask these compelling questions,
like you could see the wheels turning right, Oh, I'm
going to think of an appropriate, relevant answer to this
just having them repeat things. That's there's no.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
It's also math is the same way, right. So, for
way too long, we sat children down, like in a
large group time, and we counted numbers that were hung
up on the wall like on a calendar. That does
not prove that they understand numbers. What shows that they
understand numbers is if I take you over to the
table and I say this is the number three, Can
(10:50):
you count me out three legos? And they can successfully
do it, then they understand what threeness is? Yes, right, yes,
what is three?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
That's why we've taken in so many early childhood programs. Now,
thankfully we don't see the calendars up anymore. It's not
a good use of their very short attention span. So
math is very much the same way. Like you can
memorize one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, But unless
you can show me selling seven items, you haven't proven.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Don't know what seven actually means.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Right, unless you can count out for me. And I'm
not saying gather items to go, that's seven. I'm saying
that they need to sit and go one to three
with items, right, one to one correspondence with the items
is what that is. So there are so many things
that we've asked children to memorize in the past that
we now realize, we know they need to be applying
that information to fully understand it. Letters are the same way.
(11:42):
Letter of the week, we don't that is not recommended anymore. Yeah,
it is simply not. And there's even I think there's
a link on our website and the listener resources with
an art with articles or an article about why not
letter of the week anymore? That memorization did not help
teach children to read the most effective way, right, because
(12:04):
memorization is the lowest form of knowledge. We know that
there's a if you've not heard of it, there's something
called Blooms taxonomy and Blooms. There's a piece of Blooms
that speaks to us about knowledge. What is the lowest
level of knowledge? What are the higher levels of knowledge?
And they recently revised Blooms by the way, So the
(12:25):
lowest level of knowledge is remembering something. That doesn't mean
you can do the other layers of knowledge, which are
understanding it, applying it, and then the top Now there's
multiple things on the top level of Blooms, which are
the highest level of understanding something is being able to
(12:46):
create with it, evaluate it, and analyze based on it,
which is like compare can trast. When children can compare
and contrast, they're analyzing and that tells me you understand
that item. Now if I give them different sized blocks
that are of different colors and they can compare, contrast
(13:07):
them and sort them into different categories, they fully understand
all that. Yes, yes, if we aim toward memorization, like
you're saying that sort of imitation, you are at the lowest.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Level of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And again you can look up it's called blooms, bloo
ms taxonomy, taxo m y blooms taxonomy. And maybe what
I'll do on our website is put an image of
the most current version of blooms, so you all can
see what you can go there. By the time this
is up, probably well before you would be able to
(13:46):
go to our listener resources and see what I'm trying
to describe. Just know that simply memorizing something and spitting
it back is.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
The lowest form of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
The example I always use when I explain this to
educators is high school chemistry. I memorized a whole bunch
of stuff. I spit it back. I got an a today.
All I know is like hydrogen is H, oxygen is oh,
and water is H two. Oh that's all I got.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
She remembers.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, right, yeah, because it it was just memorization. It
didn't it was not attached to any kind of meaning.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I feel like that. But like when we were kids,
they used to have us memorize the multiplication table.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yeah they did, but.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Didn't actually always teach us how to multiply. Here's the
piece that was missing.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I think it's valuable that I have memorized the
multiplication tables. I do right, Like that I can sit
and look at you and say seven times three is
twenty one. I think that has value. Yes, the piece
that some children don't get or or need to spend
more time doing I think than we do instead of
just ensuring that they memorize. Also, please ensure that they
(14:58):
know that seven times three means seven plus seven plus
seven yes, or three plus three plus three plus three
plus right.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
And I remember doing that in school. I remember them
saying this is what multiplication means.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
But we spent more time memorizing than we did actually saying, well,
what would this look like?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
What does it mean? Right here? Do something where you're
showing me what it means.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
You're right, And even when we're teaching something like addition,
like I can look at you and I can just
say to you, like eight plus three is eleven.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I've memorized it.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
You need to sit with manipulatives with the children and
show them this over and over so that they fully
integrate it. Yes, it's kind of like why we use
environmental print instead of Letter of the Day. Y'all look
that up and look back in this podcast. It's you know,
so if you're talking about people are trying to teach
language just through repetition, yes, there has to be more
(15:58):
than repetition. Yes, folks, that's not going to do it,
And don't you think that children, if they're just repeating
what you say, they're not going to know what to
say in any situation.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
No, And I feel like they're not going to have
an original thought.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's going to be very robotic, right, it's not going
to have a flow. There's not going to be you know,
there's no thought there. It's just you know why, I
don't know how to have a conversation with somebody.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
There's a difference between using language and pronouncing words. What
they're you're doing when you repeat back what you've.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Memorized is pronounce a word correctly, Yeah, which.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I probably did in chemistry class too. I learned how
to say magnesium.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That doesn't That doesn't mean you know what magnetic.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
I have no idea what it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I have no idea what it is. I don't know
I could read that word, you know, like I don't
know what that means.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Right, Think folks, how many things in your childhood that
you learned in school or at home did you simply memorize?
Spit back at people, get one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
On something I never thought. I never and you have
no use for it. You have no idea? Yeah, I
think it's probably a lot of things, a.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Lot of things.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
So if you're doing that, if you're thinking, oh, my
child repeating exactly what I say all the time at
every given moment, because that was you know, I told
them I said the birds are flying quickly every day
until they said it, that's a tiny piece.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Of language development at best. At best. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And if you work in an early childhood program where
families are touting doing this, share this episode, yes, and
let them think about it. This is you know, I
like to give people food for thought, So let them
think about it. And if you want to know where
to find those listener resources, you're going to go to
our website and Alison.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Took the queue and moved her head out of the way.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
If you go to YouTube, there's a QR code you
can hold your camera on your mobile device up to
to get all the links. You can also simply go
to how preschool Teachers Do It dot com. And by
the way, we release episodes a little early on spaces
by Wix on that app. If you go to our website,
there's instructions on there.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It's right in the menu. How do you.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Get that app? So you can go directly too. These
episodes and the videos for episodes.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Are released a little ahead of time early. Yeah, a
little bit early access. Yes, we do enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I can't guarantee how early or which day, but it
does get released early. You know where to find us.
Catch you next time on the podcast.
Welcome to How Preschool Teachers Do It.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Alison Knto's I am an early childhood educator.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
And this is Cindy terror Bush. I am an early
childhood consultant.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This podcast is for parents and early childhood professionals.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Let our experience and research based knowledge become your guide.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hello preschool peeps, Hi peeps, welcome back. We record these
ahead of time, right, and so when this releases, it's
it's it's the second week of two.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Yeah. I hope we're having good weather.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Then we should be.
Speaker 4 (00:41):
I really hope that you're listening to this or watching
us on YouTube and it's good weather. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
If not, it's definitely coming. Yes, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It's never going to stay like this forever, but I.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Do hope it's good.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
We want to recognize some people, as we have been
doing at the beginning of our episodes, because I know
that there are pep who get a kick out of it.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Maybe your location will come up eventually too.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
As today we're shouting out Poland.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Hello Poland both No. One of my children was not
too long ago in Poland.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I think, oh interesting, I've never been there, but I've
always wanted to see it. And we're also shouting out Washington,
d C.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Love me some Washington. From where we live. We can
take the amtrak.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh yeah, we can.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It's a great Amtrak ride to DC. I've done it
with my husband and I've done it professionally for conferences
that take place in DC. I also have a cousin
in d C. So hi, if you're there. Probably not,
but they don't have children yet. But maybe someday you
will be listening. You'll be like my cousin has you'll
(01:46):
have children. You'll be like my cousin has a podcast
about children. And I'm gonna shout you out, and you're
gonna be like, oh my gosh, shout us out years ago.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
So hello.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And yeah, So thank you for listening. Spread the word
around Poland and Washington, DC that we are here and
that you enjoy this podcast. We love to see.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Our stats go up in that way.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Today's episode, What's Real Knowledge was inspired by things Allison
told me she saw, so I'm gonna just let you
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I have been seeing videos on social media of people
who try to get their children to repeat things to them,
calling that language development.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Imitation. Yeah, is a part of developing language.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, but I don't think it's the whole of it.
So this is more like then instead of having real
conversations with the children, they will say the exact same
phrase at the exact same time every day, and eventually
the child's like, oh, she's doing this, therefore I must
(03:01):
have to say this because she always says this at
this time. And they think like, oh, look, I taught
my child how to talk.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So is it like it's lunchtime every day? You say
do you want milk? Every and then the child will
eventually say I want milk, yes, just because you said
it yes, So like, is that what they're doing?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's what they're doing every day?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Think of a better example, because the child might actually
want milk. Think of a better example.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Like if if you go by a window every afternoon,
you would repeat the same thing, something like the birds
are flying by.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yes, you would repeat the same exact phrase and the
exact same wording every day as you pass that window,
and eventually the child passes the window and says the
same exact phrase that you've been saying every time you
pass the window, because they think, oh, well, i'm by
a window, I must have to say this.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
So what you're teaching them is, then, is memorization and imitation,
both of which more no not, both of which I'm
gonna correct that imitation has value. Yeah, but we want
to depart from that. We need the children to sort
of take it and run.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, I also got a little concern watching this that like,
if this is the only way people are communicating with
their children, they're not really having real conversations. And I'm like, oh,
how sad for the children, because I'm like, just if
you just talk to them, they'll learn language, right, like so,
but just that's not real conversation. That's not modeling real communication.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
You know what this sort of reminds me of.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
There was a product years ago, okay that alleged, alleged, alleged,
alleged that it could teach babies to read. And so
you would hold up pictures like two pictures and name
(04:54):
what's on those pictures, like maybe I don't know, a cow.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
And a flower, right, flower? Cowflower, cowflower, And.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Then you would say to the baby, who cannot speak yet,
which one is the cow, which one is the flower.
They would point and they would point, and people would
be like, my baby's reading.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
No, No, your baby's not reading. Your baby's not reading.
Your baby has memorized something.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Plus you tend to motion a certain way when you
want them to point to something. But it's reminding me
of that that people were thinking, Oh, I'm I taught
my child to read, when actually they had memorized things.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
That it.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
If they can't take that information and use it randomly,
they have not learned it. It's the same for learning alphabet.
I could memorize ABCDF. If I show you a random
letter out of any kind of order and you can't
name it, you have not learned alphabet.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yes, that is true. That is true.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Right, So, like you're saying, if all you're doing all
day is repeating phrases and you can't the child repeats,
says it it, but they can't take it out of
the context, right, and then come up with their own sentences.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Correct the children?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Is so in these videos you saw, yeah, the child
or children are not coming up with their own phrasing.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
No, they are repeating basically what they've kind of had
drilled into them. That like, when this situation occurs, we
say this because I say this every time, you know, like,
and that's there is no like thought of like what
we're saying, like, don't you want your child to think? Like, oh,
I want to say this now. But sometimes I feel
(06:38):
like the child thinks they can't say other things, like
they're not allowed to because we're by. We know we
must have to say the bird is flying right now
or whatever it is, and it's like no, it's it was.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
A very no.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
We want to have enriching conversation with children. Yes, Enriching
conversation with children encourages their input. Yes, it's when we
ask them good, open ended questions so that they have
to think.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Right, there's like no thinking going on to me.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yes, we want them to have to think about what
they're going to say. Yeah, we want them to express
original ideas. Yeah, imitation usually leads to pretend play though imitation.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
When you think about it, a lot of learning starts.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
As imitations, right, Yeah, but then we need the people
to be able.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
It's like planting seeds.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
We need to plant the seed with imitation sometimes, but
then we need to see if they can run with it.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
What can you do with this information now? Right?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Like yeah, because I think it applies to other things too, right,
I think it does apply to reading, Like you were saying, like,
you know how like children when they're at a certain age,
they like memorize the book.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
They do, they memorize the book, but they think that's
what you're doing when you read, right, But that doesn't
mean they're reading it right.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Right, So like there's a difference between reading the word
and knowing what the pages mean. Right. So like there's
that like that's but that but that what did I say?
Like doing the whole like going by the pictures and
all that is part of reading development, Like they have
to go through that in order to get to the
next step, right, That's part of it. So I'm not
(08:14):
saying like they shouldn't be like repeating or imitating things,
but eventually it has to be like a building block
to like here's the next part right right, right, So
just having your child repeat a word every time you
walk by a window is it's not building anything. It's
just like, Okay, this is what we say and that's it,
(08:34):
and they're not. There's no thought, there's.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
No I think there are some situations where it's appropriate,
Like you teach children when someone hands your food, always
say thank.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Thank you, yes, right, yes, But eventually they should know
that that's just what we do, right, like and be
able to apply it on their own.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
They need to understand the meaning behind you, yes, and
if they do, children don't when you just say say
thank you or say I'm sorry, or say whatever, or
say hello, they don't understand the meaning behind it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
Maybe that's the difference.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
That's the difference. Yea.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
They need to understand.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
When children understand the meaning behind what they're saying, then
they can expand upon it.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
If they're not expanding upon that imitation, then they don't
understand the meaning or the purpose of what they're saying.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
And so what's the point?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
What's the point?
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Right?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Right?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
What is the point?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And to me, it's almost like you created this little
party trick. I think, like, hey, look at what my
child can do and say, but not actually teaching them
the real knowledge of things.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
The use of language is all about conversation. How complex
is your conversation, How long is your conversation, How much
back and forth? Young children can't do a lot of
back and forth and stay on the same topic for long, right,
So we want to constantly extend that back and forth.
And one of the ways we do that is by
asking them compelling questions, So, which is very different than
(10:02):
I'm going to make a statement and ask you.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
To repeat it.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
It should be I'm going to ask you a compelling
question that makes you curious about either something in the
world or something you've done, and see what you say,
and then I'm going to say something back right.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And to me, like when you ask these compelling questions,
like you could see the wheels turning right, Oh, I'm
going to think of an appropriate, relevant answer to this
just having them repeat things. That's there's no.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
It's also math is the same way, right. So, for
way too long, we sat children down, like in a
large group time, and we counted numbers that were hung
up on the wall like on a calendar. That does
not prove that they understand numbers. What shows that they
understand numbers is if I take you over to the
table and I say this is the number three, Can
(10:50):
you count me out three legos? And they can successfully
do it, then they understand what threeness is? Yes, right, yes,
what is three?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
That's why we've taken in so many early childhood programs. Now,
thankfully we don't see the calendars up anymore. It's not
a good use of their very short attention span. So
math is very much the same way. Like you can
memorize one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, But unless
you can show me selling seven items, you haven't proven.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Don't know what seven actually means.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Right, unless you can count out for me. And I'm
not saying gather items to go, that's seven. I'm saying
that they need to sit and go one to three
with items, right, one to one correspondence with the items
is what that is. So there are so many things
that we've asked children to memorize in the past that
we now realize, we know they need to be applying
that information to fully understand it. Letters are the same way.
(11:42):
Letter of the week, we don't that is not recommended anymore. Yeah,
it is simply not. And there's even I think there's
a link on our website and the listener resources with
an art with articles or an article about why not
letter of the week anymore? That memorization did not help
teach children to read the most effective way, right, because
(12:04):
memorization is the lowest form of knowledge. We know that
there's a if you've not heard of it, there's something
called Blooms taxonomy and Blooms. There's a piece of Blooms
that speaks to us about knowledge. What is the lowest
level of knowledge? What are the higher levels of knowledge?
And they recently revised Blooms by the way, So the
(12:25):
lowest level of knowledge is remembering something. That doesn't mean
you can do the other layers of knowledge, which are
understanding it, applying it, and then the top Now there's
multiple things on the top level of Blooms, which are
the highest level of understanding something is being able to
(12:46):
create with it, evaluate it, and analyze based on it,
which is like compare can trast. When children can compare
and contrast, they're analyzing and that tells me you understand
that item. Now if I give them different sized blocks
that are of different colors and they can compare, contrast
(13:07):
them and sort them into different categories, they fully understand
all that. Yes, yes, if we aim toward memorization, like
you're saying that sort of imitation, you are at the lowest.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Level of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
And again you can look up it's called blooms, bloo
ms taxonomy, taxo m y blooms taxonomy. And maybe what
I'll do on our website is put an image of
the most current version of blooms, so you all can
see what you can go there. By the time this
is up, probably well before you would be able to
(13:46):
go to our listener resources and see what I'm trying
to describe. Just know that simply memorizing something and spitting
it back is.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
The lowest form of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (13:59):
The example I always use when I explain this to
educators is high school chemistry. I memorized a whole bunch
of stuff. I spit it back. I got an a today.
All I know is like hydrogen is H, oxygen is oh,
and water is H two. Oh that's all I got.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
She remembers.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, right, yeah, because it it was just memorization. It
didn't it was not attached to any kind of meaning.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, I feel like that. But like when we were kids,
they used to have us memorize the multiplication table.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
Yeah they did, but.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Didn't actually always teach us how to multiply. Here's the
piece that was missing.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So I think it's valuable that I have memorized the
multiplication tables. I do right, Like that I can sit
and look at you and say seven times three is
twenty one. I think that has value. Yes, the piece
that some children don't get or or need to spend
more time doing I think than we do instead of
just ensuring that they memorize. Also, please ensure that they
(14:58):
know that seven times three means seven plus seven plus
seven yes, or three plus three plus three plus three
plus right.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
And I remember doing that in school. I remember them
saying this is what multiplication means.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
But we spent more time memorizing than we did actually saying, well,
what would this look like?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
What does it mean? Right here? Do something where you're
showing me what it means.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
You're right, And even when we're teaching something like addition,
like I can look at you and I can just
say to you, like eight plus three is eleven.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I've memorized it.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
You need to sit with manipulatives with the children and
show them this over and over so that they fully
integrate it. Yes, it's kind of like why we use
environmental print instead of Letter of the Day. Y'all look
that up and look back in this podcast. It's you know,
so if you're talking about people are trying to teach
language just through repetition, yes, there has to be more
(15:58):
than repetition. Yes, folks, that's not going to do it,
And don't you think that children, if they're just repeating
what you say, they're not going to know what to
say in any situation.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
No, And I feel like they're not going to have
an original thought.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It's going to be very robotic, right, it's not going
to have a flow. There's not going to be you know,
there's no thought there. It's just you know why, I
don't know how to have a conversation with somebody.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
There's a difference between using language and pronouncing words. What
they're you're doing when you repeat back what you've.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Memorized is pronounce a word correctly, Yeah, which.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I probably did in chemistry class too. I learned how
to say magnesium.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That doesn't That doesn't mean you know what magnetic.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
I have no idea what it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
I have no idea what it is. I don't know
I could read that word, you know, like I don't
know what that means.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Right, Think folks, how many things in your childhood that
you learned in school or at home did you simply memorize?
Spit back at people, get one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
On something I never thought. I never and you have
no use for it. You have no idea? Yeah, I
think it's probably a lot of things, a.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Lot of things.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
So if you're doing that, if you're thinking, oh, my
child repeating exactly what I say all the time at
every given moment, because that was you know, I told
them I said the birds are flying quickly every day
until they said it, that's a tiny piece.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Of language development at best. At best. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And if you work in an early childhood program where
families are touting doing this, share this episode, yes, and
let them think about it. This is you know, I
like to give people food for thought, So let them
think about it. And if you want to know where
to find those listener resources, you're going to go to
our website and Alison.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Took the queue and moved her head out of the way.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
If you go to YouTube, there's a QR code you
can hold your camera on your mobile device up to
to get all the links. You can also simply go
to how preschool Teachers Do It dot com. And by
the way, we release episodes a little early on spaces
by Wix on that app. If you go to our website,
there's instructions on there.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
It's right in the menu. How do you.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Get that app? So you can go directly too. These
episodes and the videos for episodes.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Are released a little ahead of time early. Yeah, a
little bit early access. Yes, we do enjoy that.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I can't guarantee how early or which day, but it
does get released early. You know where to find us.
Catch you next time on the podcast.
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