August 11, 2025 • 20 mins
At last, Cindy and Alison are ready to share the magic formula! Are you looking for a magic formula for addressing challenging behavior or for other classroom management or parenting challenges? This episode is for you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to How Preschool Teachers Do It.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Alison Kento's I am an early childhood educator.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
And this is Cindy terror Bush. I am an early
childhood consultant.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This podcast is for parents and early childhood professionals.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Let our experience and research based knowledge become your guide.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
High preschool peeps, hie peep. We often dressed like we're
in the same band or something, and we do not
discuss seriously.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Took what was on the top of my pile today,
have put it on.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I took what was easy for me to get to. Yeah, basically,
and yeah, we I don't know how we happened time too.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We had three people here last time. We were all
dressed in dark color.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
We were we were we had people here the last
time we recorded. If you're like you had three people there,
go back in the episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Already know that if you're watching. But yes, we had
three people and it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You have to go back about four episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yea, right, we should bring them back.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Maybe we have to. We have to go back about
four episodes, yes, and then you'll find the third person.
And no, no, we're not doing interview format. That's not
what it was, So don't email us about your interview person, please,
it's a waste of your time. What we did.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Two episodes we did?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
We did all right, Well, they'll go back.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
They were amazing episodes.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, they were. All right, We're just gonna stop talking
about it. You go back and listen or watch that.
If you want to see the third person, you need
to go to YouTube. And when you're at YouTube, please
click like and subscribe to get the algorithm to us.
All right, but that's you know, we don't usually start
this way. We usually start with where in the world
(01:40):
and the country we're in. Are people listening to us?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
All right? And we are shouting out today Nigeria. We've
never shouted out them either.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
That is so exciting to me. I think I think
of Nigeria as like further away than it is really, but.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I agree, but I don't think it's that far away.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I don't think it is.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
No, I don't I think it's that far away. And
we are also shouting out Kansas, the entire state.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
That also is exciting to me because that is a
little bit far from us for the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, because Kansas is like in the.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Middle and we are on a coast.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So yeah, it really is far away.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
We are on a coast. Yeah, so thank you people
of Nigeria and Kansas. We're glad you are our pea
school peeps. Go get some more, bring them in, yeah,
tell them to come on. In the episode that we
are here for today is based on a quote that
I heard that I immediately got into my WhatsApp app
(02:37):
yes and recorded for Allison because I said, oh, oh,
we have to talk about this. But I heard it
not in an early childhood way. I just realized it related.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, I'm realizing lately we have been hearing things in
the non educational world that for us, because we're educational
people click in her head as an educational.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Thing where my mind always goes always, always.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Always, But like it's happening more.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I think, Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, maybe it's
we're exposing ourselves to better things. So here's where here's
where it comes from. I think I may have mentioned
in a prior episode that, uh, for a while now,
I've been doing a participating in a lifestyle weight management,
(03:28):
lifestyle change thing. And no it's not the injections. Actually,
it's calorie counting, weighing your food, measuring your food, calorie counting,
and walking a solid hour every day.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah okay.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And and they also have these wonderful videos that teach
you about how your brain works and why you do
the things you do, and how to make new habits,
and they help you make those new habits. And it truly,
truly works. And I'm gonna give them a shout out,
not because I get anything for it, and they're not
sponsoring us, but just because I'm so grateful for the program.
It's called Body Slims, like one word, body Slims, and
(04:04):
it's fantastic. And here's something they said during Body Slims
in reference to being healthy. In reference to being healthy,
lifestyle change. Yeah, it to lifestyle change and making doing
things that are actually healthy for you. Here's the quote.
And I'm looking over the side on YouTube because I
have it written there. Sorry, folks, I have another screen.
The quote is the magic you are looking for is
(04:26):
in the work you're avoiding. And I hit pause on
that video and I thought, Yes, the magic you are
looking for is in the work you're avoiding.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And they also always say it's simple, but it's not easy, okay.
And I think the simple but not easy. Thing is
the magic you're looking for is likely and what you're
not willing to change.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, simple change could make a world of difference, is
what they're saying.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Very good, I'm glad. So it's simple to say, Okay,
obviously this is what I need to do, and then
to do it is not easy. There are so many
situations in early childhood programs when people are looking for magic.
(05:25):
They're looking for and I know it because I'm hired
for professional development. They're looking like, Cindy, give us the
magic to dealing with this behavior, or give us the
magic to get making this curriculum more comfortable for everybody,
or give us the magic to make people who don't
want to change change, And there never is any magic,
really because the magic is what the people are not
(05:46):
willing to do, which is change. So if we were
to do a linear equation here, you're gonna do math.
I am okay. We know about me from last episode.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
In summer.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So if we were to do this in a linear way, change,
there is magic. Then they're saying there is magic in
that quote. The magic is the change that you don't
(06:24):
want to do. So let's think about what that looks
like in practical terms, in an early childhood program, Okay,
let's let's do it. So examples. For example, your large
group time has not been going well. The children are
not attentive, they're walking away, there's a lot of distraction.
Maybe they're on the floor, rolling around and touching. It's
(06:46):
just you're thinking large group time is like.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, because at the end of the year, so well,
that's like, we're done.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So large group time is like the bane of your existence, right,
And you're thinking this is just not going well. But
then every single day, what humans will do is go
in and do the same thing over and over. Don't
They also say that the definition of insanity is expecting
a different result when you do the same thing over
and over. Yes, so we going in, we're still doing
the same thing. We're still going in. We're doing the
(07:15):
age old thing, and we're doing it and doing it
and doing it, and we're struggling because the kids aren't
paying attention. Here's the thing. You have to change what
you're doing in large groups, and I mean drastically change it. Yes,
that's what I mean. Don't just go we'll sing their
favorite song. No, I'm talking about change the whole thing
you're doing, change the structure of it. Say to the children,
(07:40):
we are gonna try something new and exciting today in
large group, and instead of talking about the things we've
been talking about, I'm gonna let you talk tell me
what you did yesterday when you went home, or instead
of doing the things we've been doing, we're gonna not
(08:00):
do that today. And instead I'm gonna pass around some
things and give you some things to hold that might
interest you, and we're gonna talk about them them And
that's my large group for the day instead. And if
the children are more engaged in fact, after doing this
a few times, after they get over the shock that
you were willing to change, after you do it a
few times and you feel it, realize this is more
(08:22):
engaging than you found the magic.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yes, okay, I only say that because I just recently
experienced this where my large group was going by the wayside.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
It's sorry to hear it.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's the end of the year. I have a couple
children have challenging behaviors, and they were just rolling around
and then everybody was kind of all right anyway, So
one day sometimes it's a wacka do idea that you're like,
this is this is wacko, but we're gonna do it.
And one day I Kick came in and he wanted
to show his new socks. Okay, he had these cool
socks on, which turned into like everybody wanted to show
(08:55):
their socks. So now instead of singing that song that
we've been singing every single day to say hello and
they're bored, we show our socks.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
So and we say, oh, hello, Cindy, what sock do
you have on today? And and so it and that
was how we said hello to everybody, and that kind
of got them more interest. I'm like, Hi, they come
in asking are we gonna show our socks today? And
they're coming in like purposely wearing cool socks so they
could show them off. Even teachers who come in there like, oh,
you're showing socks, so that these socks like because we're
(09:27):
now the socker room, I guess. But it got them
into like, hey, now I want to sit here because
I want to see everybody sock and if I sit
here and then I get to show my sock. So
it was a wacko idea, like people are like, you
show your socks, like you let them take their shoes off,
like yeah, we have rules about it too, like you
take one shoe off, you put your foot like this,
you have to try to put your shoe back on afterwards.
If you need help, I'll help you, but you have
(09:48):
to try first. It turned into this whole thing, and
that's that's our large group most days, or sometimes it's
just talking like if like it's been they're wearing less
socks now because it's warmer now now, so they're like, well, no, no
wear socks, say I'm like all right, We're just gonna
talk about the hair. What'd you do yesterday? What's you
for dinner last night? And we go around like Hi, Sandy,
what's you for dinner last night? You know, like just
(10:09):
so they can remember things from previous days too, Like
that's it, okay, moving on. It's they like it much more.
It's more about them.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Is that it should be about them. Let's give another example,
another example. I do I have another one? Here's another example.
Clean up time. Oh I I'm I'm clean up time
has just not been going well. We sing a song together.
There are some really cool new cleanup songs too, by
(10:38):
the way, Yes, so we put on the really cool song.
We sing it. Then I tell them, Okay, we need
to put the things back on the shelf. But they're
not doing it, and I'm the only one cleaning up.
Me and one other child who loves to clean up
are the only people cleaning up. Everybody else is just
like running around the room. Yes, the magic you're looking
for is the work you're avoiding. Yeah, so oh what
(11:02):
we need to do then is think about what do
I need to change here to encourage the children to
clean up? More like, why do I have this massive
cleanup time at the end when actually what I could
change is that I'm ensuring they're cleaning things up as
they move along during free play. Yes, like, maybe you
haven't tried that, and and I'm avoiding it because uh,
(11:22):
it's a lot it's and it's a lot of adultage managing.
But okay, or maybe that cleanup song is just distracting
and I keep playing it because it's clean up time
and I haven't even given it a lot of thought.
And now I realize the magic is what I'm avoiding.
I have to avoid like playing that song because obviously
(11:43):
playing the song just riles them up.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yes, but also sometimes with things like that, why not
ask the kids, like, what would help you.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Clean up?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I beg you what would help you? Because sometimes it's
something simple that they know, but they're not going to
you know, unless they're asked, they might not tell you.
So it might be like, yeah, we don't want that
cleanup song. We want a timer, you know, we'd rather
have a timer. We want to beat the timer. We
want to see the numbers go down. Maybe try it. Okay,
so we'll try it for a week and see what happens,
you know, like, maybe.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I have another example. They're all coming to me now.
And by the way, we didn't plan these examples out
of time. We said, let's just riff it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, tears. I'll let you know that every episode is
pretty much we are.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
We are totally unedited. Yeah, and we're making it up. No,
we're not making up. It's based on research. Sorry, we're
coming up. We are, so we don't script it, right,
That was poorly stated. That's how you know we're not unedited.
So here's my other example. Either children are not progressing
in their skills or the same challenging behavior seems to
(12:52):
be being exhibited over and over and over again, and
The thing that I've been avoiding is documenting it. I've
not been taking my anecdotal notes. I've not been entering
those notes into whatever software my program might or might
not be using. I have not been taking audio recordings,
video recordings, images of the children doing things. I have
(13:14):
not been doing my analysis of behavior on paper.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yes, and when you don't do that, how are you
gonna get help for that child? So the behavior is
never gonna change, so you can't figure out triggers. When
predict behavior, you know, like there's reasons.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
There are there's always a reason for the behavior, and.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
There's reasons also for documents for documenting so that you
can then maybe predict it, but right before it's gonna happen,
so that you can help this child.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I when I teach about behavior, I always talk about
the importance of documentation documents it. There are and I've
said this in prior episodes, there are people out there
trying to sell you the magic children's behavior. Wait, let
me say it again. The magic you are looking for
is in the work you're avoiding. If they don't come
in and say you're a avoiding doing this, and it's
(14:02):
probably documentation because you're busy. You're busy in your classroom.
You're trying to interact with the children.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I do too.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I get Documenting is a lengthy process. It takes a
lot of time. Again, you guys don't always have the time.
It might take up. If you do get a prep,
it's gonna take up your entire prep and you're like,
I got other things I need to prep, and it's
it is hard.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
It is hard if you do not document the behavior,
if you do not document the skill levels of children
and what they're showing you they can do. If you
do not document the quotes for verbal children and what
they say to you, you're gonna have no evidence of
anything you're saying to families, administrator, anybody. You need to
(14:51):
document because your brain doesn't keep details, and you need
to document so that you can look for patterns, and
you need to documents so that you can watch over time,
like what was this child saying in November, in January,
in March. Has the language actually improved a bit? If
(15:16):
you don't document it, folks, the children are not going
to progress as much as they potentially could. If you
don't document it, you're not going to know the triggers
or the functioning of a child's behavior. If you don't
document it, you're losing the patterns in the details. And
so when that snake oil salesperson comes to your program
(15:38):
and says, hire me so I can teach them the
magic to behavior, you can look right at them and say, no,
thank you. The magic is in what we've been avoiding doing.
We know that, we know it, right. I think in
my personal life too, write the magic is in what
I avoided. So I mentioned at the beginning of the episode,
(15:58):
I weigh and measure all my food. Now I avoided
that for the majority of my life.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
The majority of my life.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
But now I'm actually portions. Yes, I'm eating the portions
that are human, not what the restaurant thinks I should
be eating, or not what my eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Think I should be eating because they've supersized or lives.
Basically in America, it's all supersized. Yeah, so your brain
at trich your stomaching.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Going back to that comparison, I also weigh myself every
single Wednesday. And let me tell you, when you're not
sure you want to see that you would avoid it
in our classrooms, do you sit at the end of
a topic you're teaching, and reflect on it and take
notes for next year, because if you don't, that's why
(16:47):
it also didn't go well next year, or is it
gonna go well next year? It's why I didn't didn't
go well the year before last in this year, right.
A lot of it has to do with self reflection, doctation,
the willingness to change. That's where the magic is. Yeah,
the magic is not in doing things like ignoring children.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, because but okay, in my school, we are often
told to ignore that behavior. And so for a while,
I'm like, all right, well, if they're telling me to
ignore it, I'll do it. And then I get heartbroken
because I can't ignore them. And once I have a
student who can't get very angry, okay, so and I'd
(17:33):
be like, all right, go to the I guess, go
to the corner and I'll just ignore you. But then
I felt horrible because I'm like, he's not working out
the anger, right. So then I stopped doing that and
I start actually going to him so that he when
he felt anger, he knew okay, I can go to her.
And his behavior has changed. Yeah, I'm not saying he
still doesn't get anger. He knows how to handle it better.
(17:55):
But I think it's because he knows he has somebody
safe he can go to. When the entire school and
all the administration was like just ignoring.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
If we ignore it, right, Like that's wrong. It doesn't
It doesn't give the child the thing that they need
all behaviors, communication, They always need something.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I also think like as a teacher, when you're told
by your administration to ignore it, you feel like you
have to and to me, all right, I'll try that
if that's what you think is gonna work with him.
But then if in your heart you're like, this isn't work.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Also, it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
It didn't work. And I also feel like I was
avoiding like my true self as a teacher by ignoring him.
And I was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Don't care what they say, and I'm gonna go to
them and say you're ignoring. Didn't work, and here's what
we've done, and now it works. If I was avoiding things,
but it was different, and it was like ignoring what
I really truly believe.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
If we're ignoring, here's a question. If we're ignoring, then
what are we avoiding, we're avoiding addressing it head on. Yeah, well, yes,
we need to address things head of.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Isn't the goal to teach the children how to handle
these situations? And if you're ignoring it, are you teaching
them anything?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
How are they going to the next time this situation players?
They're going to just have the same reaction.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Wait, I'm wrong. If you ignore it, you are teaching
them something. You're teaching them they are insignificant.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
They're not worthy of your attention, righty, that you are
not a safe person I can go to.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
You're not worthy of my attention. Yeah, you're teaching them
negative things about themselves, right, So you're teaching something.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Teaching them that you are not a person they can
go to, and I always want to be a person
they can go to.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, you're teaching them I don't care about you and
your feelings and you're you're insignificant in this space. Let's
not do that.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, let's not do that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I'm gonna say the quote one last time before we
leave this episode, because of my experience is that when
there are really good quotes, people are like, no, say
it again or show me again, because they want to
write it down. The magic you are looking for is
in the work you're avoiding Body Slims twenty twenty five.
(20:08):
There you go, site it and everything all right, preschool peeps,
don't forget to go to Facebook to the How Preschool
Teachers Do It podcast page. Don't forget to check out
our website. Allison has more things for you to check
out where she moved over on YouTube, you can see
(20:29):
a QR code. You can scan that QR code with
the camera on your mobile device and we will catch
you next time on How Preschool Teachers Do It. Bye peeps,
Welcome to How Preschool Teachers Do It.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is Alison Kento's I am an early childhood educator.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
And this is Cindy terror Bush. I am an early
childhood consultant.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
This podcast is for parents and early childhood professionals.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Let our experience and research based knowledge become your guide.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
High preschool peeps, hie peep. We often dressed like we're
in the same band or something, and we do not
discuss seriously.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Took what was on the top of my pile today,
have put it on.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I took what was easy for me to get to. Yeah, basically,
and yeah, we I don't know how we happened time too.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
We had three people here last time. We were all
dressed in dark color.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
We were we were we had people here the last
time we recorded. If you're like you had three people there,
go back in the episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Already know that if you're watching. But yes, we had
three people and it was amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
You have to go back about four episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yea, right, we should bring them back.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Maybe we have to. We have to go back about
four episodes, yes, and then you'll find the third person.
And no, no, we're not doing interview format. That's not
what it was, So don't email us about your interview person, please,
it's a waste of your time. What we did.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Two episodes we did?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
We did all right, Well, they'll go back.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
They were amazing episodes.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, they were. All right, We're just gonna stop talking
about it. You go back and listen or watch that.
If you want to see the third person, you need
to go to YouTube. And when you're at YouTube, please
click like and subscribe to get the algorithm to us.
All right, but that's you know, we don't usually start
this way. We usually start with where in the world
(01:40):
and the country we're in. Are people listening to us?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
All right? And we are shouting out today Nigeria. We've
never shouted out them either.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
That is so exciting to me. I think I think
of Nigeria as like further away than it is really, but.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I agree, but I don't think it's that far away.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
I don't think it is.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
No, I don't I think it's that far away. And
we are also shouting out Kansas, the entire state.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
That also is exciting to me because that is a
little bit far from us for the United States.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, because Kansas is like in the.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Middle and we are on a coast.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So yeah, it really is far away.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
We are on a coast. Yeah, so thank you people
of Nigeria and Kansas. We're glad you are our pea
school peeps. Go get some more, bring them in, yeah,
tell them to come on. In the episode that we
are here for today is based on a quote that
I heard that I immediately got into my WhatsApp app
(02:37):
yes and recorded for Allison because I said, oh, oh,
we have to talk about this. But I heard it
not in an early childhood way. I just realized it related.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, I'm realizing lately we have been hearing things in
the non educational world that for us, because we're educational
people click in her head as an educational.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Thing where my mind always goes always, always.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Always, But like it's happening more.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I think, Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, maybe it's
we're exposing ourselves to better things. So here's where here's
where it comes from. I think I may have mentioned
in a prior episode that, uh, for a while now,
I've been doing a participating in a lifestyle weight management,
(03:28):
lifestyle change thing. And no it's not the injections. Actually,
it's calorie counting, weighing your food, measuring your food, calorie counting,
and walking a solid hour every day.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah okay.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
And and they also have these wonderful videos that teach
you about how your brain works and why you do
the things you do, and how to make new habits,
and they help you make those new habits. And it truly,
truly works. And I'm gonna give them a shout out,
not because I get anything for it, and they're not
sponsoring us, but just because I'm so grateful for the program.
It's called Body Slims, like one word, body Slims, and
(04:04):
it's fantastic. And here's something they said during Body Slims
in reference to being healthy. In reference to being healthy,
lifestyle change. Yeah, it to lifestyle change and making doing
things that are actually healthy for you. Here's the quote.
And I'm looking over the side on YouTube because I
have it written there. Sorry, folks, I have another screen.
The quote is the magic you are looking for is
(04:26):
in the work you're avoiding. And I hit pause on
that video and I thought, Yes, the magic you are
looking for is in the work you're avoiding.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And they also always say it's simple, but it's not easy, okay.
And I think the simple but not easy. Thing is
the magic you're looking for is likely and what you're
not willing to change.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, simple change could make a world of difference, is
what they're saying.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Very good, I'm glad. So it's simple to say, Okay,
obviously this is what I need to do, and then
to do it is not easy. There are so many
situations in early childhood programs when people are looking for magic.
(05:25):
They're looking for and I know it because I'm hired
for professional development. They're looking like, Cindy, give us the
magic to dealing with this behavior, or give us the
magic to get making this curriculum more comfortable for everybody,
or give us the magic to make people who don't
want to change change, And there never is any magic,
really because the magic is what the people are not
(05:46):
willing to do, which is change. So if we were
to do a linear equation here, you're gonna do math.
I am okay. We know about me from last episode.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
In summer.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
So if we were to do this in a linear way, change,
there is magic. Then they're saying there is magic in
that quote. The magic is the change that you don't
(06:24):
want to do. So let's think about what that looks
like in practical terms, in an early childhood program, Okay,
let's let's do it. So examples. For example, your large
group time has not been going well. The children are
not attentive, they're walking away, there's a lot of distraction.
Maybe they're on the floor, rolling around and touching. It's
(06:46):
just you're thinking large group time is like.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Well, because at the end of the year, so well,
that's like, we're done.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
So large group time is like the bane of your existence, right,
And you're thinking this is just not going well. But
then every single day, what humans will do is go
in and do the same thing over and over. Don't
They also say that the definition of insanity is expecting
a different result when you do the same thing over
and over. Yes, so we going in, we're still doing
the same thing. We're still going in. We're doing the
(07:15):
age old thing, and we're doing it and doing it
and doing it, and we're struggling because the kids aren't
paying attention. Here's the thing. You have to change what
you're doing in large groups, and I mean drastically change it. Yes,
that's what I mean. Don't just go we'll sing their
favorite song. No, I'm talking about change the whole thing
you're doing, change the structure of it. Say to the children,
(07:40):
we are gonna try something new and exciting today in
large group, and instead of talking about the things we've
been talking about, I'm gonna let you talk tell me
what you did yesterday when you went home, or instead
of doing the things we've been doing, we're gonna not
(08:00):
do that today. And instead I'm gonna pass around some
things and give you some things to hold that might
interest you, and we're gonna talk about them them And
that's my large group for the day instead. And if
the children are more engaged in fact, after doing this
a few times, after they get over the shock that
you were willing to change, after you do it a
few times and you feel it, realize this is more
(08:22):
engaging than you found the magic.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yes, okay, I only say that because I just recently
experienced this where my large group was going by the wayside.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
It's sorry to hear it.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's the end of the year. I have a couple
children have challenging behaviors, and they were just rolling around
and then everybody was kind of all right anyway, So
one day sometimes it's a wacka do idea that you're like,
this is this is wacko, but we're gonna do it.
And one day I Kick came in and he wanted
to show his new socks. Okay, he had these cool
socks on, which turned into like everybody wanted to show
(08:55):
their socks. So now instead of singing that song that
we've been singing every single day to say hello and
they're bored, we show our socks.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Okay, I love that.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
So and we say, oh, hello, Cindy, what sock do
you have on today? And and so it and that
was how we said hello to everybody, and that kind
of got them more interest. I'm like, Hi, they come
in asking are we gonna show our socks today? And
they're coming in like purposely wearing cool socks so they
could show them off. Even teachers who come in there like, oh,
you're showing socks, so that these socks like because we're
(09:27):
now the socker room, I guess. But it got them
into like, hey, now I want to sit here because
I want to see everybody sock and if I sit
here and then I get to show my sock. So
it was a wacko idea, like people are like, you
show your socks, like you let them take their shoes off,
like yeah, we have rules about it too, like you
take one shoe off, you put your foot like this,
you have to try to put your shoe back on afterwards.
If you need help, I'll help you, but you have
(09:48):
to try first. It turned into this whole thing, and
that's that's our large group most days, or sometimes it's
just talking like if like it's been they're wearing less
socks now because it's warmer now now, so they're like, well, no, no
wear socks, say I'm like all right, We're just gonna
talk about the hair. What'd you do yesterday? What's you
for dinner last night? And we go around like Hi, Sandy,
what's you for dinner last night? You know, like just
(10:09):
so they can remember things from previous days too, Like
that's it, okay, moving on. It's they like it much more.
It's more about them.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Is that it should be about them. Let's give another example,
another example. I do I have another one? Here's another example.
Clean up time. Oh I I'm I'm clean up time
has just not been going well. We sing a song together.
There are some really cool new cleanup songs too, by
(10:38):
the way, Yes, so we put on the really cool song.
We sing it. Then I tell them, Okay, we need
to put the things back on the shelf. But they're
not doing it, and I'm the only one cleaning up.
Me and one other child who loves to clean up
are the only people cleaning up. Everybody else is just
like running around the room. Yes, the magic you're looking
for is the work you're avoiding. Yeah, so oh what
(11:02):
we need to do then is think about what do
I need to change here to encourage the children to
clean up? More like, why do I have this massive
cleanup time at the end when actually what I could
change is that I'm ensuring they're cleaning things up as
they move along during free play. Yes, like, maybe you
haven't tried that, and and I'm avoiding it because uh,
(11:22):
it's a lot it's and it's a lot of adultage managing.
But okay, or maybe that cleanup song is just distracting
and I keep playing it because it's clean up time
and I haven't even given it a lot of thought.
And now I realize the magic is what I'm avoiding.
I have to avoid like playing that song because obviously
(11:43):
playing the song just riles them up.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yes, but also sometimes with things like that, why not
ask the kids, like, what would help you.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Clean up?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I beg you what would help you? Because sometimes it's
something simple that they know, but they're not going to
you know, unless they're asked, they might not tell you.
So it might be like, yeah, we don't want that
cleanup song. We want a timer, you know, we'd rather
have a timer. We want to beat the timer. We
want to see the numbers go down. Maybe try it. Okay,
so we'll try it for a week and see what happens,
you know, like, maybe.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I have another example. They're all coming to me now.
And by the way, we didn't plan these examples out
of time. We said, let's just riff it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, tears. I'll let you know that every episode is
pretty much we are.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
We are totally unedited. Yeah, and we're making it up. No,
we're not making up. It's based on research. Sorry, we're
coming up. We are, so we don't script it, right,
That was poorly stated. That's how you know we're not unedited.
So here's my other example. Either children are not progressing
in their skills or the same challenging behavior seems to
(12:52):
be being exhibited over and over and over again, and
The thing that I've been avoiding is documenting it. I've
not been taking my anecdotal notes. I've not been entering
those notes into whatever software my program might or might
not be using. I have not been taking audio recordings,
video recordings, images of the children doing things. I have
(13:14):
not been doing my analysis of behavior on paper.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yes, and when you don't do that, how are you
gonna get help for that child? So the behavior is
never gonna change, so you can't figure out triggers. When
predict behavior, you know, like there's reasons.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
There are there's always a reason for the behavior, and.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
There's reasons also for documents for documenting so that you
can then maybe predict it, but right before it's gonna happen,
so that you can help this child.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
I when I teach about behavior, I always talk about
the importance of documentation documents it. There are and I've
said this in prior episodes, there are people out there
trying to sell you the magic children's behavior. Wait, let
me say it again. The magic you are looking for
is in the work you're avoiding. If they don't come
in and say you're a avoiding doing this, and it's
(14:02):
probably documentation because you're busy. You're busy in your classroom.
You're trying to interact with the children.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I do too.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I get Documenting is a lengthy process. It takes a
lot of time. Again, you guys don't always have the time.
It might take up. If you do get a prep,
it's gonna take up your entire prep and you're like,
I got other things I need to prep, and it's
it is hard.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
It is hard if you do not document the behavior,
if you do not document the skill levels of children
and what they're showing you they can do. If you
do not document the quotes for verbal children and what
they say to you, you're gonna have no evidence of
anything you're saying to families, administrator, anybody. You need to
(14:51):
document because your brain doesn't keep details, and you need
to document so that you can look for patterns, and
you need to documents so that you can watch over time,
like what was this child saying in November, in January,
in March. Has the language actually improved a bit? If
(15:16):
you don't document it, folks, the children are not going
to progress as much as they potentially could. If you
don't document it, you're not going to know the triggers
or the functioning of a child's behavior. If you don't
document it, you're losing the patterns in the details. And
so when that snake oil salesperson comes to your program
(15:38):
and says, hire me so I can teach them the
magic to behavior, you can look right at them and say, no,
thank you. The magic is in what we've been avoiding doing.
We know that, we know it, right. I think in
my personal life too, write the magic is in what
I avoided. So I mentioned at the beginning of the episode,
(15:58):
I weigh and measure all my food. Now I avoided
that for the majority of my life.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
The majority of my life.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
But now I'm actually portions. Yes, I'm eating the portions
that are human, not what the restaurant thinks I should
be eating, or not what my eyeballs.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Think I should be eating because they've supersized or lives.
Basically in America, it's all supersized. Yeah, so your brain
at trich your stomaching.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Going back to that comparison, I also weigh myself every
single Wednesday. And let me tell you, when you're not
sure you want to see that you would avoid it
in our classrooms, do you sit at the end of
a topic you're teaching, and reflect on it and take
notes for next year, because if you don't, that's why
(16:47):
it also didn't go well next year, or is it
gonna go well next year? It's why I didn't didn't
go well the year before last in this year, right.
A lot of it has to do with self reflection, doctation,
the willingness to change. That's where the magic is. Yeah,
the magic is not in doing things like ignoring children.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, because but okay, in my school, we are often
told to ignore that behavior. And so for a while,
I'm like, all right, well, if they're telling me to
ignore it, I'll do it. And then I get heartbroken
because I can't ignore them. And once I have a
student who can't get very angry, okay, so and I'd
(17:33):
be like, all right, go to the I guess, go
to the corner and I'll just ignore you. But then
I felt horrible because I'm like, he's not working out
the anger, right. So then I stopped doing that and
I start actually going to him so that he when
he felt anger, he knew okay, I can go to her.
And his behavior has changed. Yeah, I'm not saying he
still doesn't get anger. He knows how to handle it better.
(17:55):
But I think it's because he knows he has somebody
safe he can go to. When the entire school and
all the administration was like just ignoring.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
If we ignore it, right, Like that's wrong. It doesn't
It doesn't give the child the thing that they need
all behaviors, communication, They always need something.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I also think like as a teacher, when you're told
by your administration to ignore it, you feel like you
have to and to me, all right, I'll try that
if that's what you think is gonna work with him.
But then if in your heart you're like, this isn't work.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Also, it didn't work.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
It didn't work. And I also feel like I was
avoiding like my true self as a teacher by ignoring him.
And I was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Don't care what they say, and I'm gonna go to
them and say you're ignoring. Didn't work, and here's what
we've done, and now it works. If I was avoiding things,
but it was different, and it was like ignoring what
I really truly believe.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
If we're ignoring, here's a question. If we're ignoring, then
what are we avoiding, we're avoiding addressing it head on. Yeah, well, yes,
we need to address things head of.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Isn't the goal to teach the children how to handle
these situations? And if you're ignoring it, are you teaching
them anything?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
No?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
How are they going to the next time this situation players?
They're going to just have the same reaction.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Wait, I'm wrong. If you ignore it, you are teaching
them something. You're teaching them they are insignificant.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
They're not worthy of your attention, righty, that you are
not a safe person I can go to.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
You're not worthy of my attention. Yeah, you're teaching them
negative things about themselves, right, So you're teaching something.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Teaching them that you are not a person they can
go to, and I always want to be a person
they can go to.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, you're teaching them I don't care about you and
your feelings and you're you're insignificant in this space. Let's
not do that.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, let's not do that.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I'm gonna say the quote one last time before we
leave this episode, because of my experience is that when
there are really good quotes, people are like, no, say
it again or show me again, because they want to
write it down. The magic you are looking for is
in the work you're avoiding Body Slims twenty twenty five.
(20:08):
There you go, site it and everything all right, preschool peeps,
don't forget to go to Facebook to the How Preschool
Teachers Do It podcast page. Don't forget to check out
our website. Allison has more things for you to check
out where she moved over on YouTube, you can see
(20:29):
a QR code. You can scan that QR code with
the camera on your mobile device and we will catch
you next time on How Preschool Teachers Do It. Bye peeps,
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