How to say no - with The Joy of Saying No author Natalie Lue

Being able to say no to people can be difficult for several reasons, and it often varies from person to person, hence we spoke to The Joy of Saying No author Natalie Lue to get some advice on the "How To Be Books Podcast".

Please hit subscribe to hear the whole series on life skills and social change! It should be short and sweet. I look forward to journeying with you through this maze of hacks.

Other wonderful guests who took part:

• Amanda Craven, an accredited and licensed clinical hypnotherapist, life coach, psychologist and author based in the UK with a global client base.
• Dr Lisa Turner, trauma expert and founder of CETfreedom.
• Daniela Wolfe, founder and CEO at Best D Life – Helping You Find the Bliss in Your Busy.
• Dr Lienna Wilson, a clinical psychologist with a practice in Princeton New Jersey.
• Transformative coach Myra Mchale.
• Parenting teenagers expert and psychologist Angela Karanja.
• John Pabon, a sustainability author, consultant and speaker
• Laura Tremaine, who is the host of the 10 Things To Tell You podcast and author of The Life Council.

Other books/articles looked at:

• Nedra Glover Tawwab: Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Exploring how we can master ourselves bylooking at how authors and experts say it
is possible. With your host,Shashti Bashi, Welcome to Season three,
episode eighty nine of How to Bewith Me. Shashti as your Tibet presenter,

(00:21):
guiding you through life stricty topics andskills by reading through the best books
out there. Many of us areafraid of conflict. We don't like others
to be angry with us or criticalof us. We therefore avoid saying no
when we are afraid that it willput us into conflict with someone else,
whether that someone is an intimate partner, a colleague or friend, or a

(00:43):
supervisor or boss. Many of usalso try to avoid battles with our children
because we feel that if we sayno to them, they'll stop loving us,
and the same goes for parents.After all, we are social animals
and it can feel like a threatto the dynamic. But how do we
say to people? Here are AmandaCraven, an accredited and licensed clinical hypnotherapist,

(01:06):
life coache, psychologist and author,doctor Lisa Turner, who is a
trauma expert and founder of Set Freedom, as well as Daniella Wolf, founder
and CEO at Bestie Life, helpingyou find the bliss in your day on
their thoughts. As a clinical hypnotherapistwho helps entrepreneurs overcome the after effects of

(01:27):
childhood trauma, I see day afterday the impact this trauma has on the
ability of my clients to have healthyboundaries. Healthy boundaries are important because they
demonstrate our sense of self and especiallyour sense of self worth. Being able

(01:48):
to say no to the demands andrequests of others means firstly, we acknowledge
our own needs and secondly, weare able to say yes to ourselves.
It is totally possible to reverse ahistory of people pleasing or unhealthy boundaries.
You can start in a small wayby just delaying saying yes in the moment,

(02:14):
for example, by replying thanks forasking, I'll get back to you,
and giving yourself time to make achoice that's right for you. Many
people, though, may need towork through the origins of poor boundaries with
a therapist before they're truly able torespect their own needs. Without boundaries,

(02:35):
we end up being overcommitted, overwhelmed, and we're unable to meet our own
needs, and this then creates resentmentand strange the relationships with those we love.
Boundaries are like fences. They protectour emotional and physical and mental well
being, just like you wouldn't letrandom strangers wander into your home. We
need boundaries with the people in ourlives. Sometimes we end up saying yes

(03:00):
so that others won't be angry orhurt or upset. But really what you're
doing is you're actually just taking ontheir negative emotion and you're taking it on
for yourself. Learning to say nocan be unbelievably empowering, and it actually
helps us be more authentic and respectfulin relationships, including that with ourselves.

(03:21):
So take the time to reflect onwhat are your boundaries and communicate them clearly.
It's so much easier to say noahead of time rather than retrospectively explain
why you've got so grumpy with someonewhen you said yes when you really wanted
to say no. Remember saying no, it's an important part of setting boundaries
and taking care of yourself. Boundariesunfortunately can get a bad rap as being

(03:45):
mean or unaccarbonating, but I believethat by saying no and setting boundaries around
our time and our tasks, weare actually giving freedom and kindness to ourselves.
And those around us. Setting boundariesis so important for maintaining healthy relationships
and protecting your own well being.Some of the reasons to have some boundaries
include establishing respect because when you communicateyour boundaries clearly, others are more likely

(04:11):
to respect them and treat you accordingly. It helps you maintain healthy relationships because
you and others know what to expectand what is acceptable behavior as far as
when to contact you, how toreach out to you. It helps reduce
your stress because you don't constantly feeloverwhelmed or resentful of others tapping into your
time and to protect your overall wellbeing. Our first book is from Natalie

(04:35):
lu who is the author of thehugely popular relationship and self esteem blog Baggage
Reclaim, along with at least fivebooks, including Misstown Available and The Fallback
Go. She also hursts the BaggageReclaim Sessions podcast, which has over three
million downloads. For nearly two decades, she's shared the journey of her transition

(04:58):
from toxic relationship to love, care, trust, and respect. Her work
has been mentioned and featured in thelikes of The New York Times, Washington
Post, MPR, BBC, TheSunday Times, magazine and USA. Today
we're talking about her new book,The Joy of Saying No, a simple
plan to stop people pleasing, reclaimyour boundaries, and say yes to the

(05:20):
life you want. It was greatspeaking with her, hence here's a snippet
of our chat, but find thefull interview on www. Dot how to
Be twenty four seven dot com oron the YouTube channel. I think it's
because we are socialized and conditioned tobelieve that no is a dirty word,

(05:41):
and also that being honest, eventhough we're, for instance, told not
to lie and how honesty is important. We also receive conflicting messages that actually
saying how we truly feel about something. Saying what we need or wants upsets
people. It can inconvenience them.We can look like we're rude or difficult
or selfish, and we don't wantto be perceived that way. In the

(06:02):
book, I talk about how ifyou're not a child right now, then
you grew up during the age ofobedience, which is where the discipline in
communicating and interacting with children centered onmaking children as excessively compliant with authorities.
So it was all about you know, being really really obedient, and what

(06:23):
that's actually taught us to do isto have some very distorted and conflicting messages
about what being good means, whatmean bad means. But also when you're
taught to be compliant, that that'snot consciously consenting, and it's difficult,
Well, it's impossible to be justcompliant and also consider your needs, desires,

(06:43):
expectations, feelings, and opinions atthe same time. So we were
taught to be disconnected from our bodies. We were taught was like, oh,
it's more important to obey an authoritythan it is to recognize my feelings
or my thoughts or what's going onin my body. And that's why we're
where we're at. You know,as humans, we are rather primal and
primitive human beings, despite you know, our evolution, So that part of

(07:09):
our brain that handles for you know, the amygdala, it's still very primitive
and it's sort of primed to protectus from what it thinks is danger.
And so I think that these messagesthat we've received, this conditioning that we
have gone through, has ended upcreating this sense that yes means belonging and
safety and security, and you know, we can advance ourselves because of course,

(07:33):
humans are what about meeting their needs? And so conversely, we see
Noah as a threat. So wesee Noah's a threat to a safety and
security. We think that it's goingto invite conflict, criticism, disappointment,
loss, rejection, in additional stress. And I think that we have had
experiences where people have said no tous, or where we've expressed our limits,

(07:56):
or where something, you know,we've maybe tried to express the boundary
or who we are, and wehave internalized some of those reactions as oh,
that was a very bad thing.And the more that we have told
ourselves that that is a very badthing, it's really reinforced this deep sense
of fear about no. And wethen, with all of this conditioning that

(08:16):
we have, we grow up andwe go out into the world and we
try to forge, you know,out into personal relationships and we repeat those
patterns that we've already learned around pleasing. And then we go into the workplace.
Well, we might we might goto, for instance, university first,
but we will eventually most likely findourselves in the workplace. And of
course, when you think about howwe work, environments have a boss and

(08:41):
they are coworkers. That boss pushesour buttons about compliance. We start to
get that sense of being obedient again. And also these coworkers probably remind us
of our siblings or or possibly evenour parents, or they might remind us
of like friends that we went toschool with four bullies, and so they're
so much sort of going on inthere, and all of us are in

(09:03):
some way trying to pursue a senseof this is what will make me be
a good, happy, or successfulperson. And of course then we don't
want to do things that get inthe way of that, and that's why
we're afraid of saying no. Oh, women have way less margin to say
no. It's just how it isbecause we're all everything in one of us

(09:26):
on this planet is in a systemof patriarchy, and that patriarchal system basically
facilitates advancing the power of men.And it's not that men and boys are
not don't receive messages around people pleasingthey do, but the messages that they
receive are about facilitating the advancement ofpowers. Is like be strong, book

(09:46):
up, don't show your emotions.So of course those things are very problematic,
but it's all about actually, ifyou do those things you're going to
have more power. Whereas the messagesthat we receive as girls and then as
women is be sweet, be meek, be mild, you know, don't
you know, make ways close yourlegs because that looks slurdy. Make sure
that you are doing all the rightthings. So if you get picked and

(10:07):
somebody wants to settle down with youand marry, make sure you have kids.
Women have to tick all of theboxes. Don't be too loud because
that's going to scare people. Laugh. Oh, that seems aggressive and angry
because you spoke up there. Sowe have received these patriarchal, sexist,
agist ablest you know, all themessages that really send us message that oh,

(10:33):
we need to comply so that weare safe and secure and so that
we are chosen. And that iswhy we will struggle more with people pleasing
easily more so when we experience Bernardor other forms of stress related illness.
It's the equivalent of having run multiplered and amber traffic lights. And so

(10:58):
it wasn't like the wasn't an issuebefore, and then suddenly is that boom,
this thing has happened, and nowit's Bernard. We've been ignoring dismissing
you, rationalizing ourselves into avoiding sayingno, and it's almost like you're treading
water, just trying to sort ofkeep up with this. And I think
that part of the struggle of howwe get there is we're, you know,

(11:20):
people pleasing and working in these waysis a very sort of automated or
almost automatic habits, and you know, things that we have learned over time,
and so we're often unconsciously responding tounderlying tension and anxiety that's prompted by
other people's expectations or people making requestsor demands on our bandwich you know,

(11:41):
our time and our energy and ourefforts, and so the burnard becomes this
massive water shared moment in our lifethat causes us to really reflect on how
did I get here? Lu saysshe is a recovering people pleaser who had
suppressed her needs, struggled with sayingno, and as a result, felt

(12:03):
guilty and anxious. In two thousandand five, diagnosed with sarcadosis, Lu
learned to say no and prioritize herself. Overcoming people pleasing, She embraced boundaries,
leading to remission. Many struggle withpeople pleasing due to societal conditioning instead
of gaining approval. True self careand asserting boundaries are crucial. The joy

(12:28):
of saying No deves into the issueof people pleasing and its impact on our
lives, whether avertly or indirectly.Many struggle with saying no acting nice out
of fear, anger, or disappointment. The book highlights the power of saying
no and its transformative effects. Theauthor's personal journey from recovering from a life
threatening illness to improving relationships and findingjoy serves as an inspiring example emphasizing the

(12:54):
importance of sesting boundaries. The bookshares stories of healing trauma and overcoming challenges
through the empowering act of saying no. If you find yourself relating to any
of the following statements, you maybe a people pleaser. People pleasers often
feel resentful, overwhelmed, and anxious, putting others needs ahead of their own.

(13:15):
They struggle to say no, fearrejection, and seek approval from others
despite doing good things. Their motivationsare driven by fear, guilt, or
obligation rather than authenticity. On theother hand, assertive individuals consider their well
being and set boundaries based on theirvalues. Breaking free from people pleasing involves

(13:37):
recognizing these patterns and learning to sayno when necessary. People pleasing stems from
childhood and involves passive response strategies toavoid pain and seek validation. However,
it leads to low self worth,anxiety, and resentment. The inability to
say authentic yes, no, ormaybe hinders fulfilling relationship ships and personal growth.

(14:01):
Recognizing the size of people pleasing iscrucial to break free from its hold.
Emotional baggage affects everyone, but itsimpact depends on our willingness to address
it. People pleasing creates a maskthat distances us from ourselves and others,
hindering true intimacy. Despite seeking validation, it prevents others from seeing our authentic

(14:24):
cells. Lue says, our peoplepleasing has blocked us from learning that without
running the risk of conflict and criticism. By being honest about who we are
through our yeses and nose, thereis no intimacy. Instead, we normalize
tiptoeing and walking on eggshells around ourown and other people's agendas and good intentions,
and thinking that this is as goodas it gets. People pleasing misuses

(14:48):
your good qualities and drains your resources, impacting your emotions, relationships, work,
and overall fulfillment. It leads tohidden hurts, resentments, and a
sense of discont action. It cantrigger flight fight freeze mode, exacerbating past
traumas that pure people pleasing behavior.People pleasing is an attempt to gain self

(15:11):
worth and fulfilling relationships without risking vulnerability. Understanding boundaries and learning to say yes
and no authentically is crucial for intimacy, peace, and joy. Boundaries communicate
who you are and what you value, solving problems and preventing repetition. Fear
of saying no indicates issues with others. Boundaries too Healthy boundaries meet your kneeds

(15:33):
and express your values. People pleasingsuppresses boundaries and authentic self expression. Ongoing
boundaries reflect self esteem and self worth, leading to a more fulfilled and confident
self. The Age of obedience instilledfear and guilt and children to enforce compliance
and obedience. This led to peoplepleasing behavior as individuals sought to be good

(15:56):
and avoid trouble. The rigid parentingstyle of that era suppressed individuality and emotional
expression, emphasizing unconditional obedience to authorityfigures. As a result, many learn
to prioritize others needs over their own, hinjuring authentic self expression and intimacy.
Gendered messaging further influenced compliance behaviors.The fear of authority and emotional blackmail perpetuated

(16:22):
guilt and self inflicted pressure to comply. This kind of upbringing creates adults who
distrust their feelings and struggle with assertingthemselves, making them more prone to people
pleasing. Compliance. People pleasing andblind obedience to authority figures can also lead
to chronic stress, disconnection from one'struth self, and a toll on physical

(16:45):
and mental health. The pressure tobe a good person and belief in a
meritocracy can lead to disillusionment and toburn out. Social media intensifies the pressure
to compare and strive for unattainable worksspectations, leading to self medication and compulsive
behaviors. Emphasizing the importance of listeningto one's body and emotions, the author

(17:08):
calls for acknowledging and setting boundaries toavoid internal conflict and improve overall wellbeing.
Our subconscious and early life experiences shapeour habits, behaviors, and people pleasing
tendencies. These patterns are deeply ingrained, but can be changed by understanding and

(17:30):
updating our mental programming. The roleswe play in childhood become part of our
identity, but breaking these patterns asessential for personal growth and well being.
Learning to say no, setting boundaries, and being conscious of our intentions can
help us reclaim our true selves andthrivers adults. There are various styles of

(17:51):
people pleasing, such as gooding,efforting, avoiding, saving, and suffering.
It emphasizes that people often engage inthese patterns without realizing it, and
they are driven by hidden motivations andemotional baggage. Identifying one's dominant people pleasing
style helps understand underlying fears and desires, enabling individuals to break free from the

(18:14):
patterns and prioritize their needs. Goodingis one of the styles of people pleasing
characterized by the need to be perceivedas good to gain self worth and validation.
It involves performing as a good personto influence and control others feelings and
behavior. Gooders often prioritize appearances andseek validation through conforming to rules and standards.

(18:37):
The style originates from childhood experiences ofbeing praised for being good, and
it can lead to anxiety self doubtand a lack of authenticity. Good as
may struggle to say no, feardisapproval, and maintain a superficial persona.
Recognizing and addressing this style can helpbuild healthier relationships and prioritize personal needs.

(19:00):
Efforting is a form of people pleasing, where individuals seek self worth and acceptance
through constant effort, achievement, andperfectionism. The author talks about Angeline amid
forties, women who struggles with disappointmentand anxiety in her dating life. Instead
of stepping away from incompatible relationships,she doubles down on her efforts to make

(19:22):
them work, deriving her value fromher actions. Efforters often come from families
that emphasized achievement or expected them toprove their worth. They feared disapproval and
seek validation through their efforts, leadingto burnout and unrealistic expectations. To overcome
efforting, they should set realistic limits, prioritize self care, and recognize their

(19:44):
true worth beyond their achievements. Lualso discusses the people pleasing style of avoiding.
The story follows Marcus, who alwaysfelt different from his family, but
avoided confronting his identity. Avoiders prioritizeis minimizing discomfort and fears, often avoiding
conflict and emotional expression. This behaviortypically arises from growing up in an environment

(20:08):
where avoidance was encouraged, praised,or necessary for self protection. Avoiders struggle
to express feelings, avoid making decisions, and tend to play small to fit
others' expectations. The author explores commonthemes and challenges faced by avoiders and provides
tips for shifting away from this peoplepleasing style. Saving is when the main

(20:32):
focuses on individuals who constantly prioritize othersneeds, seeking validation and worth through being
needed and helpful. They are drivenby the fear of rejection and abandonment,
and often have a hidden agenda oftrying to control others feelings and actions through
their assistance. The origins of thisbehavior may stem from childhood experiences of being

(20:52):
praised for being selfless and helpful,or taking on adult responsibilities at a young
age. It also highlights a commontheme and challenges faced by savers, such
as feeling burdened by others, problems, struggling with boundaries, and neglecting their
own needs. Savers are encouraged torecognize their pattern of behavior and the underlying
motivations behind it. True help andsupport should be given with boundaries and without

(21:18):
expecting something in return. The authoralso warns against burnout and encourages the practice
of saying no when necessary to avoidtaking responsibility for others problems. Suffering is
a style of pleasing characterized by consciouslyand unconsciously putting oneself in distress to gain
validation and control others feelings and behavior. The primary motivation is the belief that

(21:41):
suffering makes one worthy and secures asense of self. This style often stems
from an upbringing where suffering was normalizedand attention was received for enduring pain.
Sufferers struggled to say no fearing rejectionand maintain a victim identity, seeking record
ignition through their suffering despite the painthat it hold onto the hope of being

(22:03):
rescued. Setting boundaries as essential fortheir well being, as suffering only perpetuates
more harm, Recognizing their worth beyondsuffering can help them break free from this
pattern. Lu says the six stepsfor finding joy in saying no involves aligning
with the authentic self, prioritizing yourpreferences over outdated programming, and embracing vulnerability.

(22:26):
Saying no allows you to listen toyour needs, desires, and feelings,
leading to a more fulfilling life.It breaks the cycle of people pleasing,
setting realistic expectations, and taking smallsteps towards healthier boundaries. Journaling your
progress helps acknowledge growth and develop selfawareness. The journey may feel uncomfortable,

(22:47):
but will lead to healing and growth, ultimately finding joy in embracing your true
self. In Autumn twenty fourteen,the author's mother in law stayed with them
during the Ebola epidemic and Sierra Leone, and it triggered feelings of unease and
rage within the author. She realizedthat she had become over invested in seeking
approval and validation from others. Tounderstand her people pleasing habits better, she

(23:11):
engaged in a two week experiment.During the first week, she gathered data
on her daily activities, observing whereshe felt discomforted, what energized or drained
her, and where she automatically saidyes. In the second week, she
challenged herself to say no, aimingto cut her yes responses in half.
She provided sample scripts to say nowithout using the word no directly. The

(23:34):
presses helped Lou gain insights into herpeople pleasing tendencies and the anxiety that underpinned
them. By setting healthier boundaries andbecoming more intentional with her yes and no
responses, she aimed to reclaim hertrue self and break free from the people
pleasing pattern. The author acknowledged thatthis was a journey and urge readers not
to rush the process, but topractice self awareness and discernment. Finally,

(23:59):
she addressed common troubleshooting questions, offeringguidance for overcoming challenges associated with people pleasing.
This means recognizing your emotional baggage andunderstanding its influence on your thoughts,
feelings, and actions is crucial fordeveloping healthy boundaries and evolving into a more
authentic version of yourself. By uncoveringthe motivations behind your responses and reactions,

(24:21):
you gain the power to choose howyou react to situations, rather than being
driven by automatic patterns. Emotional baggagestems from past experiences and learned behaviors,
often from childhood. The baggage canaffect how you perceive and interact with others,
leading to people pleasing behaviors, fearof rejection, and difficulty setting boundaries.

(24:42):
It's essential to confront this baggage andexplore its roots to move forward with
healthy responses. But asking questions aboutthe origins of your emotional baggage, you
can access information from your subconscious andnervous system. This process allows you to
evaluate your behaviors decide whether they alignwith the present and the person you want

(25:02):
to become. Additionally, recognizing thateveryone has their emotional baggage helps you understand
and empathize with others. Breaking thecycle of taking things personally and reacting defensively.
Developing healthier boundaries involves learning to sayno and taking responsibility for your actions
and feelings. It's not about blamingothers, but about understanding your part in

(25:23):
a situation and how you can respondin a more assertive and boundaried way.
Avoiding addressing emotional baggage can lead tomental, emotional, and even physical health
issues. Just as we declutter ourphysical possessions, we need to unpack and
process our emotional baggage to achieve emotionalpeace and well being. Implementing healthy boundaries

(25:45):
doesn't mean alienating others. Rather,it strengthens relationships by fostering mutual respect and
understanding boundaries are about recognizing and respectingyour needs, expectations, and feelings while
also considering those of others. Ultimately, embracing healthier boundaries allows you to heal,

(26:06):
grow, and evolve in your relationshipsand life, leading to a more
authentic and fulfilling existence. No senseto discover the power of reparenting yourself and
healing your inner child to overcome peoplepleasing patterns. By acknowledging the baggage behind
your responses, you can embrace healthyboundaries, compassion, and self care,

(26:26):
reconnect with your inner child, nurturethem, and empower yourself to transform old
narratives and behaviors, slow down,pause, and create a new authentic way
of being. Incorporating healthier boundaries intoyour life is a process of reparenting yourself
and acknowledging this inner child. Bydoing so, you can break free from
people pleasing patterns and create more authenticrelationships. Connecting with your inner child involves

(26:51):
engaging in activities that nurture your platefuland creative side. Recognize the difference between
your inner critic and inner voice,allowing yourself to be kinder and more compassionate
towards yourself. Forgiveness is a crucialaspect of embracing healthy boundaries. Acknowledge that
parents are fallible and that your pastdoes not define you. Saying no and

(27:11):
setting boundaries as an act of selfcare, not selfishness. It allows you
to grow, make better decisions,and develop more meaningful relationships, troubleshoot challenges
that may arise, and remember thatboundaries are about expressing love, trust,
care, and respect for yourself andothers. Reparenting yourself also involves acknowledging your

(27:33):
past mistakes without self blame and grantingyourself the grace to heal and grow.
Embrace the freedoms that boundaries bring,enabling you to form healthy and more authentic
connections with others, Recognize when arelationship may not be healthy for you,
and be willing to let go ifneeded. Ultimately, boundaries are a reflection
of who you are and a wayto express self love and self respect.

(27:56):
To make authentic decisions and protect ourworld be we must recognize when to say
no and decipher our genuine desires.Often we've been conditioned to prioritize others' needs
over our own, leading to innerconflict. To bridge the gap between obligations
and desires. Pay attention to howyou feel when considering a request. A

(28:18):
genuine desire feels different from an obligation. It's essential to trust your intuition and
set boundaries. Saying yes out ofguilt or obligation leads to resentment. Embrace
enthusiastic consent, even if it's amoderate yes. Make decisions based on what
you genuinely want. Not to pleaseothers, avoid people pleasing habits, and
honor your feelings to foster healthier relationships. Communicate your desires and boundaries respectfully.

(28:45):
Remember doing things out of obligation underminesyour sense of agency and keeps you stuck
in the past. Say yes withauthenticity or confidently. Or confidently say no
to preserve your well being and empoweryourself as a grown up. To ensure
your decisions align with your genuine desires, examine your motives. Ask yourself if

(29:07):
you would still want to do somethingif you didn't receive the expected response or
reward. If not, revise yourmotivations to reflect authentic desire, or communicate
your expectations clearly. Avoid guilt drivenactions or obligations that lead to resentment.
Embrace the power of pausing before respondingto requests, giving yourself time to consider

(29:29):
your feelings and needs. Remember,saying no doesn't make me selfish. It's
essential to set healthy boundaries and preserveyour well being. Saying yes without genuine
desires not true, giving it's selfharm. Embrace assertativeness and communicate your boundaries
respectfully to avoid people guilting you intothings. Recognize that not all obligations are

(29:51):
genuine. It's okay to prioritize yourselfwhen needed. Ultimately, it is about
finding a balance between genuine desires andlife unavoidable responsibilities. Take time to understand
your bandwidth and intentions, and learnto distinguish between pushing yourself out of your
comfort zone and ignoring your needs.Overcome guilt by acknowledging that prioritizing yourself is

(30:15):
essential and a journey of growth.Learn to say no to unfair and unreasonable
requests, respecting yourself and others boundaries. She also says, reduce hinting and
be more direct in your communication people. Pleasing often involves dropping hints or using
passive aggressive behavior to get what wewant without being assertive. This only creates

(30:37):
confusion and unmet expectations. Embrace clearand compassionate communication by setting boundaries and say
no when necessary. There are twotypes of no, hard and soft.
Use a hard no when clarity andconciseness are required, and a soft no
with people who respect your boundaries butmight need some detail. Being intentional with

(30:59):
your nose helps build healthier relationships andavoids unnecessary stress. Using the phrase what
did you mean by that? Isan assertive way to gain clarity in situations
where you feel uncomfortable or uncertain.Repeating what someone said or describing their behavior
helps them see reality and Foster's intimacyin relationships. When dealing with tricky people,

(31:22):
stick to facts and avoid emotional appeals. Use the broken record strategy to
persistently and calmly communicate your boundaries.Embrace healthy boundaries by having realistic expectations and
not denying your true feelings. Troubleshootssaying no by being honest and direct without
waiting for full readiness. Addressing uncomfortabletopics with empathy helps resolve conflicts and Foster's

(31:48):
intimacy. Remember, being more directmay invite some conflict, but it also
prevents internal struggles and invites healthier relationships. Many assume that personal growth or setting
boundaries will lead to a smooth,happy life. However, the author's journey
of self discovery, overcoming people pleasingand embracing boundaries has been filled with ups

(32:12):
and downs. Challenges like motherhood,self employment, and personal relationships have tested
her to the limit. Eruptions andtrials have forced her to confront her fears
and weaknesses, but they have alsotaught her valuable lessons about resilience, vulnerability,
and the importance of feeling to heal. Embrace the journey and allow yourself

(32:35):
time to recover and grow from life'sinevitable challenges. Challenges our opportunities to level
up your boundaries and take care ofyourself. But as a recovering people pleaser,
you may struggle with self criticism whenthey arise. Embrace your feelings and
take time to heal and grow.Don't bypass your emotions by immediately trying to
find the silver lining in challenges.It's okay to be pissed off and experienced

(33:00):
the full range of feelings. Recognizechallenges as indicators or flaws in thinking your
actions and use them to help yougrow. Set boundaries and make adjustments to
communicate them effectively. Trouble shoot.Common issues in setting boundaries, like feeling
overwhelmed by emotions or facing pushback fromothers. Remember saying no and having boundaries

(33:22):
of successes, and it's ok tofeel upset about past mistakes as long as
you use them to move forward withhealthier boundaries. If someone reacts poorly to
you or no, it's a signthat your boundary was necessary and overdrew Before
our next book. Here are doctorLeanna Wilson, a clinical psychologist with the

(33:42):
practice in Princeton, New Jersey,transformative coach Mirah McKell and Parenting Teenagers expert
and psychologist Angela Karanja. On theirviews, boundaries are like invisible border surrounds
you let amend to protect your interestsand well being. These borders apply to
all of the relationships around you,whether they are family, platonic, romantic,

(34:07):
or professional. Boundaries are a formof self care and they highlight and
explain our rules or how we deserveto be treated so that we feel safe
and respected. To send boundaries,you need to identify what you want and
need and then assertively communicate your needs. Most people want to be liked,

(34:30):
so it can be difficult to sayno of a fear of being disliked.
So it is important to learn tosay no when a request will interfere with
your self care or well being.If you are concerned about damaging the relationship,
you can always offer an alternative thatwill work for you. One word,

(34:51):
one little word with two letters.But it's a very powerful word because
when people are nice, when peopleare considerate, when people are able to
love others, they find it veryhard to say no to them, particularly
they're loved ones. They can endup acting as unpaid slaves. So although

(35:12):
this is done from a place oflove for others, it's not done from
a place of self love. Becausewe need to respect our own boundaries.
We need to say no sometimes becauseit's not the right thing for us.
So that means putting yourself at thetop of your agenda, and that doesn't
come easy for a lot of people. So it's an ongoing process. It's

(35:34):
an ongoing practice. My advice toyou is learned to say no and it's
appropriate, and do not beat yourselfup about it either. Most people struggle
to see no. In fact,a lot of people don't even know that
no is a complete sentence that doesnot require an explanation. Here are three
reasons why people have challenges seeing no. One the fear of being judged.

(36:01):
People may fear being rejected by someonebecause they've said no, or they fear
being viewed as rude or selfish.Number two, fear of conflicts. Fear
of disappointing or upsetting someone creates internalconflict, thus their inability to say no.

(36:21):
Number three is low self esteem.A lot of people struggle to say
no because they lack that self confidenceand don't feel like they are worthy of
saying no. As you can see, all these three reasons time from fear
and they are all trauma responses.They stem from the person's past experiences and

(36:42):
relationships and environment, which can leadto a person feeling powerless and unable to
assert themselves. Remember no is acomplete sense. Our final book has set
boundaries. Find Peace, A Guideto Reclaiming Yourself by Netroglover Tawa, who
is a licensed therapist and relationship groupwith over twelve years experience helping people to

(37:07):
resolve their relationships issues. She operateson the philosophy that the root cause of
most relationship problems is unhealthy boundaries.Here she is speaking to this psychology podcast.
I think a boundary is a verbalor behavioral statement that you make to
feel comfortable, safe, and protectedin your relationships with others. Typically we

(37:31):
think of boundaries is just verbal andreally, when I say verbal, telling
people what to do right, Sowe think of that as boundaries, But
it's so much more than why.It can also be changing our behaviors in
relationships, and sometimes it is askingother people to change their behaviors. And

(37:51):
it's also saying no. So it'sso many things. And I think when
we think of that word, weshake of these tough walls and always saying
no, And that is just asmidget of what a boundary is and not
the totality of what healthy boundaries are. I think of enmeshment as walking alongside

(38:15):
someone. I meant walking intertwined withsomeone and being separate as walking alongside them
so we can go our separate ways, we can come back together. But
when we are intertwined with people,what we do is dependent on what they
do. How we feel is dependenton how they feel, and so there

(38:36):
is no separateness in each other.It's really we are the same person.
If we are not being the same, there is a problem when in relationships.
We are different. We have,you know, different TV preferences from
our partners. Sometimes with our friends, we don't all have the same friend
group. We have different jobs forpeople. So there are so many things

(39:00):
about us that are different. Andit doesn't mean that we need to be
delighted because of those differences, butmaybe it's a part of the conversation.
So if all of those things canbe different, and okay, so can
some of our needs, so cansome of our desires in relationships. The
book lays out everything you need toknow about boundaries, what they are,

(39:22):
why you need them, and howto implement them in your life right now.
Healthy relationships need healthy boundaries. That'sbecause as diverse as these problems may
seem, they actually all boiled downto the same fundamental problem. You've allowed
your needs to take second place tosomeone else's. Boundaries, then, are

(39:43):
about standing up for yourself. Havinghealthy boundaries mean being able to count on
the people in your life to treatyou in a manner that you're comfortable with.
When we think of boundaries, theone that first come to mind are
the physical boundaries of our bodies inpersonal space. You've probably experienced how uncomfortable
it can be when someone gets tooclose to your face during a conversation,

(40:06):
for example. But physical boundaries areactually just one of six types of boundaries.
We have sexual, intellectual, andemotional boundaries, which are about having
our opinions and feelings respected by others, even if they disagree with us.
We also have material boundaries, whichrelate to how others use our possessions,

(40:27):
and finally, we have time boundaries, which are about ensuring that others understand
the value of our time. Admittedly, many of these boundaries are coded into
the culture, like personal space,so it shouldn't be necessary to state them.
However, other boundaries are more individual, and these are the ones we
need to communicate. For example,when meeting someone for the first time,

(40:52):
you might have to let them knowthat you're more of a handshaker than a
hugger. Of course, setting boundariesisn't always easy. We worried that will
be seen as stuffy, needy,or overly sensitive. We might even worry
about harming the relationship by making thingsawkward. But in the long run,
not setting boundaries is counterproductive. Ifwe allow others to continually step on our

(41:16):
boundaries, the quality of our relationshipswill inevitably decline. Most relationship problems are
caused by boundaries that are either toopoorous or too rigid. Think of your
boundaries like the membrane of a cell, a selective barrier that allows useful substances
to pass through while blocking harmful ones. Just like a cell membrane, your

(41:39):
boundaries should aim for that perfect balancebetween being receptive to positive influences and blocking
negative ones. If you fail toachieve this balance, you're at risk of
experiencing a range of relationship issues.If your boundaries are too porous, for
instance, you'll be vulnerable to absorbingother people's needs and emotions as your own.

(42:01):
However, if you err too farin the opposite direction and your boundaries
are too rigid, you're in dangerof ending up emotionally isolated and alone.
Poorous boundaries are weak, overly flexible, or poorly expressed. They usually characterized
by a lack of emotional separation,dependency, or a people pleasing attitude.

(42:24):
At its most extreme, poorest boundariescan result an emotional unmeasurement and codependency in
measurement is what happens when there's alack of clear distinction between the emotional lives
of two people. For the clearestexample of enmeashment, think of those couples
whom you never see a part becausethey spend every waking moment with one another.

(42:47):
Codependency is similar to a measurement,it's more unbalanced. Codependent relationships take
the form of one person dedicating theirlives to solving all the other person's problems.
This arrangement is generally bad for bothparties, since one side never has
their own needs met and the othernever learns how to solve their own problems.

(43:08):
People who suffer from poorous boundaries needto work on reclaiming their autonomy.
The first step is to establish somephysical and emotional distance. It's important to
withdraw some of your support and focuson good self care practices. On the
other side of the spectrum, peoplewho have rigid boundaries generally find it difficult

(43:30):
to get close to people. Themost pathological form of rigid boundaries is counter
dependency, which is characterized by emotionaldistance and an inability to express vulnerability.
An example of counter dependency is whenit goes to person that you've been dating
simply because they opened up how muchthey like you. The solution for rigid

(43:53):
boundaries is to practice cultivating close relationships. That means practicing sing how you feel
to others, asking for help whenyou need it, and allowing yourself to
love. In the end, healthyboundaries are to be found somewhere in between
porous and rigid boundaries. You'll havehealthy boundaries once you combine a concern for

(44:15):
your own needs with a concern forthe needs of others. Setting healthy boundaries
require clear communication and consistent action.If you think about it, passive aggressiveness
is really just a poor attempt atcommunicating a boundary. Instead of directly stating
how we've been hurt, we actat how we feel and just hope the

(44:37):
other person figures out what they've donewrong. More often than not, though
this approach only frustrates the other person, who as completely oblivious to what the
problem is. Therefore, is goodpractice to communicate your needs directly. The
two steps to communicating a boundary directlyare to assert it verbally and then back
it up with action as certain isabsolutely the way to go. Unlike passive

(45:02):
aggressiveness, assertiveness is a way ofcommunicating your needs openly without attacking the other
for having done something wrong, andwhen you assert your boundaries directly, you
minimize the chance that there will bemisunderstood. Assertive boundary statements usually take the
form of I want, I need, or I expect. Try to avoid

(45:25):
apologizing or explaining too much when youset boundaries. You don't want to give
the impression that your boundaries are negotiable. The process of setting boundaries doesn't end
with communication. However, you haveto back up what you say with consistent
action, or else your boundaries won'tbe taken seriously. For one, that
means modeling behavior you expect from others. If you want your partner to be

(45:51):
honest with you, for example,it's not going to help your cause if
you're not honest with her. Andsecondly, consistent action means affecting other people's
boundaries as well. Healthy relationships arebuilt of mutuality, and if you don't
honor other people's boundaries, you don'tgive them much reason to honor yours.
Some people may resist your boundary byquestioning it or testing your limits. Occasionally,

(46:16):
people might even pretend they didn't hearyou and ignore your boundary altogether.
These responses are typically a sign thatyou need to reevaluate your relationship. That
might mean simply reiterating your boundaries,but it might also be an indication that
the relationship simply isn't working. Ifsomeone continues to infringe on your boundaries,

(46:37):
you'll have to enforce your boundary byissuing a consequence. In some cases,
you may decide it's better just todistance yourself from a relationship or end it
entirely. How often you give yourtime to others is your choice. You're
not obligated to give your time topeople who don't respect you or who drain
you of your energy. That doesn'tnecessarily mean you no longer care about this

(47:00):
person, just means you're looking outfor your own well being. Boundaries are
also essential and how we treat ourselves. If you want to help others,
a portion of your energy must gotoward good care. One of the main
reasons we avoid setting boundaries is thatwe misunderstand what they are. We imagine
that boundaries are distancing ourselves emotionally froma person, and that genuine relationships are

(47:24):
about selfless giving. As a result, we end up burning out. On
the one hand, good self boundariesprevent you from engaging in practices that don't
serve you, but self boundaries aren'tjust about saying no. They're also about
saying yes to yourself by treating yourselfwith respect and adopting healthy self care practices.

(47:45):
The essence of true self care isauthenticity. It's about being in tune
with your own needs and respecting yourselfenough to fulfill them. An example of
self care is saying no to arequest when you know you don't have the
time to do it. When yousay no to the things that you can't
or don't want to do, youhave more energy and more enthusiasm for the

(48:07):
things you say yes to. Otherself care practices include finding the time to
do things that you enjoy, improvingyourself through learning and self development, and
spending time with people who make youfeel good. So, in the end,
don't think of self boundaries as beingpurely restrictive. Families often where people

(48:27):
struggle most when it comes to settingboundaries, especially the parent child relationship.
After all, these relationship dynamics aredecades in the making and aren't likely to
be changed overnight. But we mustset boundaries with our parents because that's the
only way we'll ever grow up.It's only by virtue of the fact that
we set boundaries with our parents duringa development that we gradually learned to become

(48:51):
autonomously acting individuals. Those, however, who fail to assert boundaries in development
will never truly cease to be achild. The first step to implementing boundaries
with family members is to create distance. Physically, that means reducing how often
you see them or speaking to themon the phone. Emotionally, creating distance

(49:12):
involves preserving your privacy by withholding intimatedetails of your personal life. The next
step is to practice asserting your will. The main way to do that is
to start solving your own problems andmaking your own decisions. There are also
other smaller ways you can win abit of self autonomy, for example,
by expressing your opinions freely in frontof them, even when it contradicts their

(49:36):
views. It's important to remember thatthis advice also applies the other way round
if your parent. It's easy toforget that your children have boundaries too,
and it's important to respect them,at least within reason. When a child
sets a boundary, it might looklike refusing to eat a certain food or
crying around a certain person. Respectingyour children's boundaries is important because it reinforces

(49:59):
the positive habit of asserting oneself andrelating to others in a healthy way.
When you acknowledge a child's boundary,you're effectively saying to them, yes,
you have the power to determine yourown life, and yes, your needs
and preferences matter ultimately. As counterintuitiveas it may seem, creating boundaries between

(50:21):
family members is actually essential for relatingto each other in adulthood as equal,
independent beings. Setting boundaries in theoffice is also essential for enjoying your work
and doing a good job. Evenif we have healthy boundaries in our personal
lives, we tend to have morepoorous boundaries in our professional lives. That's
because we find it more difficult toset boundaries with our boss and team members

(50:45):
out of fear of not being seenas a good employee. The first step
to setting boundaries at work is toget over the idea that being a good
employee means saying yes to every request. There's nothing good about overloading yourself so
much that you do everything half heartedly. Remember when you say no to extra
responsibilities, you are saying yes todoing a good job on the work you

(51:08):
already have. The next step isto do what it takes to get your
work done within working hours, sono one can guilt you into working longer.
One way to achieve this is topractice delegating tasks when you have too
much on your plate. Another strategyyou can try is informing your co workers
that you prefer to save the chitchap for your lunch break. If you

(51:29):
still find that your workload is justtoo much to handle, then tell your
boss. Of course, setting boundarieswith your boss can be nerve racking.
It is far better to communicate yourlimits to your boss than to suffer in
silence. And finally, setting romanticboundaries means clearly communicating your needs and your
expectations for the future. When couplescan't assert their boundaries explicitly, they end

(51:52):
up resorting to other or conflict pronemethods of communication, such as passive aggressiveness.
By being honest and up front abouthow you expect to be treated and
what you want to get out ofthe relationship, you'll both be spared a
great deal of heartache and wasted time. In the long run. You'd be
surprised just how many couples never discusstheir expectations around things like marriage and having

(52:16):
children until years into the relationship,only to discover that they want completely incompatible
things. Other conflict prone topics thatshould probably be dealt with early on include
how you intend to share finances,how you will divide up household responsibilities,
and what your stance is on fidelity. That last conversation is sure to be

(52:37):
interesting at least you may well findit uncomfortable. But uncomfortable conversations save relationships.
Based on conflicts that have come upin the past, you should already
have a pretty good idea where boundariesand expectations need to be discussed. So
to sum up, Lu says inThe Joy of Saying No, that life

(52:57):
will make you say no when youavoid it. Challenges and experiences, both
wanted and unwanted, will prompt youto establish healthy boundaries. Embrace your feelings,
recognize unconscious biases and involved by lettinggo of old patterns, saying no
and being authentic lead to a morejoyful and fulfilling life. Be compassionate towards

(53:17):
yourself as you navigate this journey,and remember it's okay to say no and
prioritize your well being. Embrace beingyourself and let others do the same.
Say no, would love, care, trust, and respect. Glover to
Wab says in set boundaries, findpeace that many of the problems in your
life, from work overload to domesticdisputes, really boiled down to a single

(53:42):
issue, an inability to set healthyboundaries, and so by taking the time
to work on this one issue,you can make improvements to your quality of
life across the board. With thatin mind, he is a napkinsized summary
of the steps you need to take. Step one, identify the errors in
your relationships where you feel you needclearer boundaries. Step two assert your needs

(54:04):
to the person as confidently and straightforwardlyas possible. Step three, deal maturely
with whatever discomfort in series from settingyour boundary. Remember it will only be
awkward if you make it awkward.And step four back up your boundary if
necessary by restating it or issuing aconsequence. I've had to make difficult choices

(54:25):
in my own life and have haddifficult conversations to assert boundaries with loved ones
and even split for good with familymembers. It is probably one of the
most challenging things to do as wesee our people as a tribe, but
for your own sanity, it's anecessity. Please join in on the conversation
by following at how to Be twentyfour seven on Instagram, Twitter, and

(54:47):
Facebook, and subscribe on the podcast, which can be found via www dot
how to Be twenty four seven dotcom. Please vote for us at the
People's Choice Podcast towards by July thirtyUS. The link can be found on
the website. Please do deliver review. If you found this helpful and you
want to be featured, remember tocheck out how Patrion for exclusive unseen bonus

(55:09):
material from every single interview, allfor the price of a coffee. And
we have plenty of amazing material onthe website itself, including Friday opinions and
articles where we talk to industry professionalsand authors on various different subjects, including
mental health. Before we go hereare John Pabourne, who is a sustainability

(55:31):
author, consultant and speaker, andLaura Tremaine, who's the host of the
Ten Things to Tell You podcast anauthor of the Life Council. See you
next week. I've spent two decadesin the business of saving our earth,
and the one thing I always remindpeople is that you can do anything,
but you cannot do everything. Time, capacity, sanity, those are all

(55:54):
finite resources now as altruists, aspeople that care, there is plenty we
can say yes to. We wantto feed the homeless, we want to
read to the elderly, and takethat dog home from the shelter. But
we're only one person and we canonly do so much, and probably by
trying to do too much, we'renot being as impactful as we think we

(56:15):
are. So what I want youto do is really remember to find the
one thing you're passionate about that youcan say no to everything else for.
That could be something that you havea passion for, it could be something
that you have a special skill in, or if you're financially well off,
it's something you can contribute to.Those are all great ways of ensuring a

(56:36):
more sustainable future. And maybe tohelp you get over the issue of saying
no, I want you to rememberthat you're not alone. There are billions
of other people who also want tosave the planet, and they're picking up
maybe where you're not able to.So be confident in the knowledge that by
doing less, you're actually doing more. There has been a lot of chatter

(56:58):
and education last few years about settingboundaries in our relationships as a way to
navigate difficult situations, as a pathto self care, and I understand why
this is a popular topic. Itcan be healthy, it can give you
a sense of empowerment over your ownlife. But in the Life Council,
I argue that we've also boundaried ourselvesinto loneliness. When we have a lot

(57:22):
of rules around our interactions and oursocial gatherings, we naturally end up with
less interactions and social gatherings. Itisn't powerful, it's isolating. While taking
care of yourself, of course,I encourage women to say yes to friendship
and just go to the dinner orthe coffee or on the walk, even
if it's not to your exact specifications. Answer the phone and the text and

(57:46):
the invitation. It just might changeyour life.