July 22, 2025 • 27 mins
Most business owners don’t need more hustle—they need more freedom.
In this powerful episode of I Am Refocused Radio, we sit down with business growth strategist Michael Walsh, who’s helped hundreds of leaders shift from overwhelmed to in control. With 30 years of experience, Michael shares how to transform your business into a thriving ecosystem that fuels—not drains—your life.
We unpack:
The 3 Core Freedoms: in your business, from your business, and because of your business
The mindset shift from “well-oiled machine” to intelligent ecosystem
The two hidden forces clashing behind stalled growth
How to design your company to scale without sacrificing your soul
If you’re tired of running a business that runs you, this conversation will change how you see growth—forever.
https://walshbusinessgrowth.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/i-am-refocused-radio--2671113/support.
In this powerful episode of I Am Refocused Radio, we sit down with business growth strategist Michael Walsh, who’s helped hundreds of leaders shift from overwhelmed to in control. With 30 years of experience, Michael shares how to transform your business into a thriving ecosystem that fuels—not drains—your life.
We unpack:
The 3 Core Freedoms: in your business, from your business, and because of your business
The mindset shift from “well-oiled machine” to intelligent ecosystem
The two hidden forces clashing behind stalled growth
How to design your company to scale without sacrificing your soul
If you’re tired of running a business that runs you, this conversation will change how you see growth—forever.
https://walshbusinessgrowth.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/i-am-refocused-radio--2671113/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to I Am Refocused Radio with your
host Shamaiah Reid. This show is designed to inspire you
to live your purpose and regain your focus. And now
here's your host, Shamaiah Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to your Focus Radio once again. We are here
today and today happy Monday. We have another showline for
y'all Today. We are going to have a good time
talking to a very strong powerhouse. It's gonna be a
great show line for here today. When it comes to
helping business growth, we have our guest Michael Waltz. He
is not just helping leaders breathe again inside their own companies,
(00:40):
He's given them great strategy when it comes to being
a visionary leader, speaker, and author, he has quietly been
transforming businesses behind the scenes for over thirty years. He's
worked with hundreds of owners senior leaders, guiding them not
just to bring for a bigger profits, but toward what
he calls the three freedoms in the business, freedom from
(01:02):
the business and most importantly, freedom because of the business.
So first, without fraide, I want to welcome to the
show Michael wats today.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
How you doing certain, I'm doing good. Thanks for having
me here.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, sir, I appreciate your time when it comes to
being bold in today's market, today's world. Actually, there's a
lot of different strategies that people are using, but you
have what makes everything else go to sleep. You have
experience kind of teach us a little bit what you
had learned so far with over their years plus of
(01:36):
experience working with top leaders, and was some of the
trends that you see.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, one of the things that I see. First of all,
there's as many ways to grow business as there are people.
Everybody's got unique strengths and unique interests and passions, and
as a result, you won't necessarily find two businesses that
run the same. The problems, on the their hand are
very similar. So while while there's many ways to address
(02:04):
growth of a business and even help people deliver it,
they'll get stuck on the same stuff. And if you
can figure out what gets people stuck, you can help
them move past that and actually achieve what they want,
not just for themselves and their families, but also the
impact they want to have and you know, the life
style they want to create for the people that work
with them. All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
When you think about freedom framework, that's something that you
use as a strategy as you help a lot of
top leaders around the world. First of all, you had
to be trusted by these top leaders, So it was
the strategy that you came up with to create the
Freedom Framework.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, you know, it's interesting because this is the third
book that I've written, just recently published. And what I
found was that the first one I published in twenty
ten and was, you know, business Growth by Design, and
it was how to grow a company and sorted it
out based on the different experiences that I that I
had with the people we were helping grow. I sort
(03:07):
of codified them and put them in a book, and
that was for the smaller business. And then five years
later actually wrote another book called Thinking Big is Not Enough,
and that was for It was based on the journey
of one particular person. This was a woman in the UK.
We work in Canada, the US and the UK, but
this is a woman in the UK that you know.
(03:28):
I met her when she was fifty two years old
and she'd had a company for the last previous ten
years that had been sort of kicking around between two
hundred and fifteen and four hundred thousand pounds per year.
And I met her in twenty eleven and she was
looking for ways to grow, and you know, so we
connected and in fact I went over there and we visited.
(03:51):
By twenty fourteen, she was able to get the business
up to two million pounds. And then that's when I
wrote the second book called Thinking, So what are some
of the myths and misconceptions? Since again these problem spots
that soap many businesses that were in fact stopping her
but no longer needed to. And then the second half
of her journey happened after that book was published, and
that's she actually ended up growing into seven point three
(04:13):
million pounds, so about ten million US or twelve million
Canadian And then she put a ball on it, and
she's now retired and she does well paintings of different
things that actually have her attention in that So what
I found again it was the problem. So in twenty twenty,
of course, when we hit COVID, I'm like, I think
it's time to write another book. I got a little
(04:34):
bit more time on my hands because I was doing
a lot of individual travel and so identified the problems.
You know, and there's problems that underlie each of the
major milestones of growth. Once somebody's passed a million, there's
you know, they want to go for two, and if
they've hit two, they want to go for five million,
and then five they want to go for ten And
if people actually get that far out of ten million,
then they want to go for twenty and on it goes.
But what I found was that beneath these different mobstone
(05:00):
to growth, there were underlying issues that would stop people
from growing and or that really impeded them. And it
was interesting because you know, I claimed that they were
underlying it took me three years to figure out what
the issues were because they were different in each different company.
(05:21):
And the reason they were different in each company is
that one of the issues is that outstrip your structures.
I mean a lot of people talk about the structures
in a business right well, as you outstrip your structures,
I mean, I promise you a little two million dollar
company outstripping the structures looks a lot different than say
a ten million dollar company outstripping their structures. You're dealing
with what feels like very different dynamics. And so what
(05:43):
I found was that was that unless you are able
to actually identify the real issue that's underlying the problems,
it gets really hard to grow. And what happens is
it just traps people and it takes away their freedom
as they go. And the first place it does it
is as they approach two million bucks in revenue, you know.
(06:06):
So that's what I've evolved. It took me three years
to figure it out. As we were watching different client situations.
Is solving them on a one on one basis. But
then it's like, Okay, what do they have in common?
And it was interesting because what I found was there
were two underlying issues that either by themselves people would
assume they knew, but when you start putting them together,
(06:28):
it actually had a big consequence to the companies. And
here's what I find with business owners. What I find
business owners are pretty smart people and senior there's a
lot of people really smart. If you can see a problem,
you can probably solve it. You know, you can either
yourself or you can identify the resources that are needed
to solve it. If you can't see a problem, but
(06:49):
you know it exists, again, you can solve it. Okay.
It's when you can't see it, have no idea that
it exists, even when it's got you. Those are the
ones they get us because we think of we think
of all the normal stuff, Well, what about your marketing,
your sales, your production and delivery, your the money, the people,
(07:11):
you know, the overall strategy and leadership, or the evolving marketplace.
We look at all the things we can normally see,
and then we try to solve these underlying problems with
solutions that are to not the real problem. There's solutions
that we try to solve symptoms rather than the actual
underlying problem. And so that's what I find or what
(07:32):
I've found has been getting people stuck. And what it
does is that the biggest single consequence is it just
sucks their freedom away. And as a result with it,
what happens is people either go into a quiet panic
state or they're in a situation where there's this sort
of low level disillusionment or resignation to this is just
the way business is, and you know, it would be
(07:53):
nice if we sold this thing, because this is no
fun anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
See a lot of that appreciate you're sharing, you're sharing
that story and giving those insights because a lot of
times we are in that situation where we just don't
understand was the real problem, what was causing all this Uh,
frustration because when there's some problems you're going to know
(08:18):
sooner or later is going to haunt you. Once again,
listen to your focus. Were talking to our guest today,
Michael walshko is website Washbusiness growth dot com. My next
question for you is you talked about growth from the
core outward.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Kind of walk.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Us through what does that actually look like and how
do you help these businesses to start from the core
and grow from their outward.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, it's interesting. We have a traditional notion of what
management is, and we think that management equals I'm the
boss or the employee, you do what I say. And
the fact is that that may have worked on an
assembly line where you've got you know, everybody's got to
be doing the same stuff, otherwise you get a lumpia
simply lines. But in a service based environment, you need
(09:08):
all the thinking from all the different people that are there.
So the power has shifted from the managers who would
tell people what to do on the assembly line. It's
now shifted to the individual teams of knowledge workers who
collectively have to figure this stuff out. The problems are
more complex, the answers are not obvious, they're not evident,
and as a result, people are in fact part of
(09:30):
the core. Now, the traditional value exchange has always been,
you know, you need to make sure you give customers
value or else they won't stick around. The company needs
to make a profit or else they're not going to
do it. But what about the employees. As long as
the employees are treated like a cog and a system,
they're not going to give you their best. So the
(09:52):
first thing to do is to recognize that the employees
are in fact a major part of that core. And
the second thing is to actually start giving them things
associated with that. Not like treats so that you do
what I need you to do, but more like you know,
customers are there to get whatever the result is that
they're paying for. That's where they get their value. Client
the company is there to generate the profit, both financial
(10:15):
and non financial profit that's associated with growing a company.
The people are there. Yes, they get their paycheck, but
they also want professional growth. So the same things that
you can do as a employer. Obviously you're paying your people,
but you know, the job can actually grow people. Yet
we're so busy doing the job that we don't take
(10:38):
care of the people. Because right now they're treated as
two separate things. Now there's a way to give customers
value and still make sure that you get your pay
okay as a company, like they get to pay for it.
That's just part of a system. We know how to
integrate this different results. What we haven't done is extend
that to the employees that are right there that are
(11:00):
actually generating those results. So when we talk about looking
from the core outwards, it's how do we build it
in so that the people actually on an active, weekly
and monthly basis get the levels of growth and development
that they want for their profession and their career, just
like we want the profit and the customers want the value.
(11:21):
So by treating people as part of the core and
not just saying it in lip service, but actually integrating
things so that they get the value that they're seeking
in terms of professional growth, that's how you start from
the inside out.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And in addition to professional growth, you also contrast to
mindsets seeing business as a well oiled machine versus intelligent
ecosism system. Why does that shift in thinking matter so much?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, here's the thing about that. If you take a
look at a well oiled machine, a machine is there
for the benefit of its owners. So if I own
a car, my family and I get to use the car.
In fact, some people would say anybody with teenage kids
would say, well, actually the car's there for them. It's
really we don't get it anymore unless we have to
(12:12):
pick them up from soccer practice and things like that.
It's like, okay, but they're part of the family unit
that represents the ownership. The people are literally the wheels
and the electrical system and you know, and the pistons
and the sparkplant. They're literally treated as cogs in a system.
So you know, I've heard many people say, listen, people
(12:32):
come and people go. Your systems are there to stay,
so you should really focus on your systems and then
and then you just get the people that are appropriate to that.
What that doesn't do is it doesn't really it doesn't
account for the fact that where the power sits is
with these teams of people who are actually generating your
results in a service based business. And this is even
(12:53):
more important when you've got businesses that are based on
their expertise of the people. So whether it's professional services
like architecture, engineer, daring, medicine, you know, different aspects of
health or whether it's in professional trades and you know,
whether it's whether it's carpenters, electricians, plumbers, you know, stone guys.
I mean, there's a lot of people in a lot
of different technical trades as well as professional services, where
(13:18):
it's the expertise of the people that's actually generating the result.
So so if I in an ecosystem where the well
machine is there for the benefit of its owners, the
ecosystem is there for the benefit of its owners, and
also the clients are customers, but it's also there for
each of the staff. So it feels more dangerous to
(13:40):
go to an ecosystem because I don't necessarily control an ecosystem.
I mean, nobody in their right mind would say they
control a beehive. Okay, yeah, we see beehives where what
you do is you actually set the environment and let
them do their thing, and they figure it out and
they do their thing, and there's lots of honey that
comes from you know, behives that have thousands of bees
(14:02):
in them, But at the same time, nobody controls it.
Whereas there's this illusion of control with a with a
well oiled machine, and we actually think that we can
maintain control, and I don't know about you, but you
know what, Neither you nor I we want to be controlled.
Neither one of us does. In fact, we don't even
control our relationship between each other. So there's you and
(14:26):
there's me. Unless I start to control you, I'm not
going to be able to control the relationship. Now I
influence the relationship and you influence the relationship. But we
have this dynamic between us where we both influence it.
It's not about who controls it per se yet yet
as the company grows, this is one of the issues
that happens is in addition to outstripping your structures, you're
(14:49):
in a situation where you got a lot more people,
and a lot more people means a lot more of
these one on one relationships. And in fact, the numbers
of one on one relationships they actually multiply as you add.
So when I've got four people in a company, I've
got like six one on one relationships. If I get
to twenty five people in the company, I now have
three hundred one on one relationships. If I go from
(15:10):
twenty five to fifty people, I have twelve hundred and
twenty five one on one relationships, and heaven forbid, I
get to one hundred person company. Now I have almost
five thousand, four thy nine hundred and fifty one on
one relationships and one hundred person company. Okay, is there
any question why the seating arrangement at the wedding is
such a nightmare. I can't sit Jerry next to Missus McGillicutty.
(15:32):
He'll talk your ear off and I'll hear about it
for months. I mean, I mean seriously, you know, and
it's one thing, something as trivial as that, but it's
not even trivial. But but you do that inside of
a business, it gets impossible. So people have this illusion
that there's control with a well machine, whereas with an ecosystem.
If you can get past the notion of control and
(15:53):
you can actually work with the ecosystem, you're in a
situation where you've got something that's way more powerful. People
actually work at their best, and you can actually turn
this into something that matters for everybody and gives you
your freedom.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
When you think about friction that can happen inside companies,
there are two core issues you say that often class
and create that of friction. Can you break those two
down for us? And how can leaders do a better job,
get in ahead if possible.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, it goes back to the notion absolutely, So it
goes back to the notion of outstripping your structure. So
there's the systems and structures and processes that you've got,
and then there's the swelling numbers of people that are involved,
and those two running into each other. What happens again
the term herding cats. Everybody now understands what hurting cats
is about, you know, especially when there's all these relationships there.
(16:47):
So what people do is they outstrip their structures. They
try to bring in better structures that try to get
people to do what I want them to do. And
that's where they make their mistake. Whereas whereas, yes, there
are more people there and you know, and they all
have different needs in that, but instead of actually trying
to use the structures to get them to do what
(17:08):
I want them to do. There's two things you need
to do. One is to understand a few core basics
of human behavior, and then the second thing is is
to deal with those elements of human behavior so that
you can actually achieve the results. So, for example, the
four key elements. One, we all have a biological need
to survive. We will do whatever it takes to survive.
(17:29):
Number two, we all have an innate desire to thrive. Now,
of the two survival and thriving, survival will always trump thriving. However,
you don't need to get all your survival needs done forever,
because otherwise, why would a five year old ever share
a toy? I mean, you know. The third one is
both the need and the ability to connect with each other,
(17:53):
and the fourth one is to adapt to an environment,
even if the environment is one we don't want. So
a lot of people were unhappy about the pandemic, yet
we still found a way through and things that we
never thought were possible, we actually managed to find a
way to get pass from that side. So the more
(18:14):
you start seeing survive, thrive, connect and adapt and how
they play in things, and then if I can put
in structures to support people to feel safe and give
them access to thriving and actually create the environment where
people can connect with each other so that as they
do adapt to a constantly changing environment, they can actually
do it with each other. You're in a situation where
(18:36):
they start carrying more of the load on their own
because guess what if you've hired right which hiring is
literally half the game. But if you've hired the right
people and you put them together based on complementary strengths,
the biggest job is just to stay the heck out
of their way and let them do their job, because
if they do, you know what, that's when they get
the satisfaction and that's when they really thrive. It's thriving
(18:57):
with each other so that actually, you know, they need
to understand those elements of human behavior and the impact
of that on how people work together.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Once again, listen to we Focus Radio on talking to
our guests today Michael watsco his website. His website is
Washbusiness growth dot com. My next question for you is
in your experience, what have you seen change with leaders
when they finally realize that their business should work not
just for them? Excuse me ly you rephrase that, when
(19:31):
they finally realize that the business should work for them
instead of working just because of them.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
What the result of that is that people actually feel
more ease, They actually learn to trust their people more. Now,
even that's taking a step at a time. They need
to work with it at small steps and allow people
to grow with that. But as they do that, what
they find is that they get to do the stuff
that they're uniquely qual like themselves at that actually make
(20:02):
a big difference in the company, and they get to
partner with their fellow employees and together what happens is
you just get something that's way stronger. You've got everybody
working at their strengths, which we all prefer, and instead
of some notion that this is some utopian, you know,
perfection thing that's not accessible. Actually, there's many companies that
(20:25):
are doing this and they're just having more fun.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And that's the dream right there. That's that's the dream
that everyone wants to see. Like when you're playing golf,
you want you want to be in the green, you
don't want to be in the sand. When you're thinking
about the opportunities to hive achieving leaders.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Who are on the come up.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
In their ranks and within these companies, how do you
see the best help for them. While you're trusting them
to carry the vision, you still at the same time
want them to operate within the means of the business.
High slows what would you say to those up and
(21:06):
coming leaders or rise up the ranks and preveying them
for slowing down?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
What I would say is assuming that you know how
to hire people. And if you don't learn, there are
places to learn that. Instead of worrying about telling people
what to do or trying to get them to do anything,
stop and listen and notice, to what extent are the
people in my organization surviving? To what extent are they thriving.
(21:34):
To what the extent are they pretending they're thriving but
really operating from fear? To what extent are they connecting
protectively versus connecting to create something cool? If you can
create this environment that's actually not troublesome, it is kind
of a safe way. And safe environment doesn't mean, you know,
give everybody a blanket and tuck them in it. And
I sometimes engagement is made by provoking people are you
(21:56):
up for this? And they're like, yeah, I'm up for
Then they have a chance to actually thrive and so
to create, you know, just by noticing what's going on
with human behavior, these four very simple aspects. The minute
you start looking for it, you'll start to see it.
And if people start seeing that as an up and
coming leader, then they'll navigate their way with their people differently,
(22:17):
and they'll be able to naturally nurture that and just
quietly take steps along the way for.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
That business owner who's listening right now, and they feel
like they know that they have a chance to switch
everything in their business for it to thrive, but at
the same time, they still feel like they have to
hold a tight grip and make sure everything's done right,
so to speak. What would you say to them to
(22:45):
help them navigate that delicacy, Because yes, you'll understand, you
want to take those risks and make things happen, but
at the same time you don't want to lose yourself
and creating this perfect environment.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Okay. So I was born in cana and in Canada
we love hockey. So there's a term in hockey called
holding the stick too tight. How do I take a
good shot and make it a bad shot? I hold
the stick through place. So you can say, I want
this business to thrive, but while I'm busy hanging onder this,
it just doesn't work, okay. And the other side of
(23:21):
that is, I mean for those that are not into sports.
I also play the bandjo. No, I'm not the greatest
at it, but one of the things that I learned,
you know, when they get their fingers go really really fast,
the only way to do that is to relax the hand.
If the hand is working too hard, it doesn't work.
You need to be able to relax and actually allow
it to flow. The more you can relax with the
(23:41):
people that you've got, you know, the better everything goes.
So sometimes what there is to do. One of the
best pieces of advice that I was given years and
years ago, it was Michael, if you're too stressed and
too tense, breathe and you know what, in the next
maybe an ideal come to you. And if that breadth
(24:03):
only goes down to your neck pre deeper you your
lungs are bigger than that. Just breathe and you know what,
allow for life to help.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
That's really good. I'm going to take that personally, because
when you are caught up in the excitement of the
vision and then it's almost no comedy intended, but it
might go there. It's a turntable scratch when rarely hits
you and you're like, WHOA, I'm actually here when I
(24:37):
actually want to be further down the road. If someone's
watching this and listening to us right now and they
feel like they're at that spot, is that a personal
growth thing that they need to work on, or is
there a combination of other things as well?
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Well? The thing there's always a combination. But the one
thing I will say about that is that your business
will only grow to the extent that you grow. If
I'm not growing my business can't I will. I will
naturally have a limit, and the limit is usually wherever
my growth limit is. So if I'm not willing to
grow me, my business is probably not going to grow
too far, not without a whole bunch of struggle and
(25:17):
sometimes just sort of breathing into it and allowing it
to occur. It's like trusting people. Well, I don't want
to give away my trust to people, or I could
just notice where they're good and let them do a
little bit more of that, because you know what, the
stuff they're really good at that I do trust. Okay,
So then what if I put them with somebody else
who's got a strength where they've got a weak spot.
(25:37):
I trust that person with that, And all of a sudden,
I'm sitting back and relaxing and again, one small step
at a time, allowing it to occur. So I don't
need to do any wholesale changes. All I need to
do is just start to notice and allow it to evolve,
and I will grow through that process. I don't have
to worry about, you know, going to some self help
thing here or there. I mean, it's always nice to
(25:58):
have an outside set of eyes if you can get it.
But I got to tell you there's a lot of
places where you can get different perspectives. But if you
allow for your own growth and development through the process,
everything just gets a lot easier and you don't have
to go, well, I guess I have to grow myself.
Maybe you just have to allow that you don't already
know everything, or you don't need to know everything. Takes
the pressure off and allows you to learn.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Man, this is a masterclass. I appreciate having our guests
on today. Michael Washby on the show. Make sure you
go to his website is washed Business Growth dot com.
The last thing I want to ask you is it's
almost more detail on your resources or if you have
any upcoming events in the future. What's the best way
(26:41):
that they can stay in touch with you and your updates.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Well, the first thing I would say is go check
out the latest book, Freedom by Design, and that's in
print copy kindle copy as well as the audible books.
For those that like to listen, as many podcasters may,
the thing is just keep an eye on the website.
Starting in the fall, we're actually going to be adding
more of the events and things that we're dealing with
(27:07):
to the website as we go, So if you just
stay tuned there, then you'll find that you'll be able
to keep up to date with what's going on.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Like I always want to say to you, appreciate your
time there, well, thank you so much.
You are listening to I Am Refocused Radio with your
host Shamaiah Reid. This show is designed to inspire you
to live your purpose and regain your focus. And now
here's your host, Shamaiah Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to your Focus Radio once again. We are here
today and today happy Monday. We have another showline for
y'all Today. We are going to have a good time
talking to a very strong powerhouse. It's gonna be a
great show line for here today. When it comes to
helping business growth, we have our guest Michael Waltz. He
is not just helping leaders breathe again inside their own companies,
(00:40):
He's given them great strategy when it comes to being
a visionary leader, speaker, and author, he has quietly been
transforming businesses behind the scenes for over thirty years. He's
worked with hundreds of owners senior leaders, guiding them not
just to bring for a bigger profits, but toward what
he calls the three freedoms in the business, freedom from
(01:02):
the business and most importantly, freedom because of the business.
So first, without fraide, I want to welcome to the
show Michael wats today.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
How you doing certain, I'm doing good. Thanks for having
me here.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yes, sir, I appreciate your time when it comes to
being bold in today's market, today's world. Actually, there's a
lot of different strategies that people are using, but you
have what makes everything else go to sleep. You have
experience kind of teach us a little bit what you
had learned so far with over their years plus of
(01:36):
experience working with top leaders, and was some of the
trends that you see.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well, one of the things that I see. First of all,
there's as many ways to grow business as there are people.
Everybody's got unique strengths and unique interests and passions, and
as a result, you won't necessarily find two businesses that
run the same. The problems, on the their hand are
very similar. So while while there's many ways to address
(02:04):
growth of a business and even help people deliver it,
they'll get stuck on the same stuff. And if you
can figure out what gets people stuck, you can help
them move past that and actually achieve what they want,
not just for themselves and their families, but also the
impact they want to have and you know, the life
style they want to create for the people that work
with them. All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
When you think about freedom framework, that's something that you
use as a strategy as you help a lot of
top leaders around the world. First of all, you had
to be trusted by these top leaders, So it was
the strategy that you came up with to create the
Freedom Framework.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, you know, it's interesting because this is the third
book that I've written, just recently published. And what I
found was that the first one I published in twenty
ten and was, you know, business Growth by Design, and
it was how to grow a company and sorted it
out based on the different experiences that I that I
had with the people we were helping grow. I sort
(03:07):
of codified them and put them in a book, and
that was for the smaller business. And then five years
later actually wrote another book called Thinking Big is Not Enough,
and that was for It was based on the journey
of one particular person. This was a woman in the UK.
We work in Canada, the US and the UK, but
this is a woman in the UK that you know.
(03:28):
I met her when she was fifty two years old
and she'd had a company for the last previous ten
years that had been sort of kicking around between two
hundred and fifteen and four hundred thousand pounds per year.
And I met her in twenty eleven and she was
looking for ways to grow, and you know, so we
connected and in fact I went over there and we visited.
(03:51):
By twenty fourteen, she was able to get the business
up to two million pounds. And then that's when I
wrote the second book called Thinking, So what are some
of the myths and misconceptions? Since again these problem spots
that soap many businesses that were in fact stopping her
but no longer needed to. And then the second half
of her journey happened after that book was published, and
that's she actually ended up growing into seven point three
(04:13):
million pounds, so about ten million US or twelve million
Canadian And then she put a ball on it, and
she's now retired and she does well paintings of different
things that actually have her attention in that So what
I found again it was the problem. So in twenty twenty,
of course, when we hit COVID, I'm like, I think
it's time to write another book. I got a little
(04:34):
bit more time on my hands because I was doing
a lot of individual travel and so identified the problems.
You know, and there's problems that underlie each of the
major milestones of growth. Once somebody's passed a million, there's
you know, they want to go for two, and if
they've hit two, they want to go for five million,
and then five they want to go for ten And
if people actually get that far out of ten million,
then they want to go for twenty and on it goes.
But what I found was that beneath these different mobstone
(05:00):
to growth, there were underlying issues that would stop people
from growing and or that really impeded them. And it
was interesting because you know, I claimed that they were
underlying it took me three years to figure out what
the issues were because they were different in each different company.
(05:21):
And the reason they were different in each company is
that one of the issues is that outstrip your structures.
I mean a lot of people talk about the structures
in a business right well, as you outstrip your structures,
I mean, I promise you a little two million dollar
company outstripping the structures looks a lot different than say
a ten million dollar company outstripping their structures. You're dealing
with what feels like very different dynamics. And so what
(05:43):
I found was that was that unless you are able
to actually identify the real issue that's underlying the problems,
it gets really hard to grow. And what happens is
it just traps people and it takes away their freedom
as they go. And the first place it does it
is as they approach two million bucks in revenue, you know.
(06:06):
So that's what I've evolved. It took me three years
to figure it out. As we were watching different client situations.
Is solving them on a one on one basis. But
then it's like, Okay, what do they have in common?
And it was interesting because what I found was there
were two underlying issues that either by themselves people would
assume they knew, but when you start putting them together,
(06:28):
it actually had a big consequence to the companies. And
here's what I find with business owners. What I find
business owners are pretty smart people and senior there's a
lot of people really smart. If you can see a problem,
you can probably solve it. You know, you can either
yourself or you can identify the resources that are needed
to solve it. If you can't see a problem, but
(06:49):
you know it exists, again, you can solve it. Okay.
It's when you can't see it, have no idea that
it exists, even when it's got you. Those are the
ones they get us because we think of we think
of all the normal stuff, Well, what about your marketing,
your sales, your production and delivery, your the money, the people,
(07:11):
you know, the overall strategy and leadership, or the evolving marketplace.
We look at all the things we can normally see,
and then we try to solve these underlying problems with
solutions that are to not the real problem. There's solutions
that we try to solve symptoms rather than the actual
underlying problem. And so that's what I find or what
(07:32):
I've found has been getting people stuck. And what it
does is that the biggest single consequence is it just
sucks their freedom away. And as a result with it,
what happens is people either go into a quiet panic
state or they're in a situation where there's this sort
of low level disillusionment or resignation to this is just
the way business is, and you know, it would be
(07:53):
nice if we sold this thing, because this is no
fun anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
See a lot of that appreciate you're sharing, you're sharing
that story and giving those insights because a lot of
times we are in that situation where we just don't
understand was the real problem, what was causing all this Uh,
frustration because when there's some problems you're going to know
(08:18):
sooner or later is going to haunt you. Once again,
listen to your focus. Were talking to our guest today,
Michael walshko is website Washbusiness growth dot com. My next
question for you is you talked about growth from the
core outward.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Kind of walk.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Us through what does that actually look like and how
do you help these businesses to start from the core
and grow from their outward.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, it's interesting. We have a traditional notion of what
management is, and we think that management equals I'm the
boss or the employee, you do what I say. And
the fact is that that may have worked on an
assembly line where you've got you know, everybody's got to
be doing the same stuff, otherwise you get a lumpia
simply lines. But in a service based environment, you need
(09:08):
all the thinking from all the different people that are there.
So the power has shifted from the managers who would
tell people what to do on the assembly line. It's
now shifted to the individual teams of knowledge workers who
collectively have to figure this stuff out. The problems are
more complex, the answers are not obvious, they're not evident,
and as a result, people are in fact part of
(09:30):
the core. Now, the traditional value exchange has always been,
you know, you need to make sure you give customers
value or else they won't stick around. The company needs
to make a profit or else they're not going to
do it. But what about the employees. As long as
the employees are treated like a cog and a system,
they're not going to give you their best. So the
(09:52):
first thing to do is to recognize that the employees
are in fact a major part of that core. And
the second thing is to actually start giving them things
associated with that. Not like treats so that you do
what I need you to do, but more like you know,
customers are there to get whatever the result is that
they're paying for. That's where they get their value. Client
the company is there to generate the profit, both financial
(10:15):
and non financial profit that's associated with growing a company.
The people are there. Yes, they get their paycheck, but
they also want professional growth. So the same things that
you can do as a employer. Obviously you're paying your people,
but you know, the job can actually grow people. Yet
we're so busy doing the job that we don't take
(10:38):
care of the people. Because right now they're treated as
two separate things. Now there's a way to give customers
value and still make sure that you get your pay
okay as a company, like they get to pay for it.
That's just part of a system. We know how to
integrate this different results. What we haven't done is extend
that to the employees that are right there that are
(11:00):
actually generating those results. So when we talk about looking
from the core outwards, it's how do we build it
in so that the people actually on an active, weekly
and monthly basis get the levels of growth and development
that they want for their profession and their career, just
like we want the profit and the customers want the value.
(11:21):
So by treating people as part of the core and
not just saying it in lip service, but actually integrating
things so that they get the value that they're seeking
in terms of professional growth, that's how you start from
the inside out.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And in addition to professional growth, you also contrast to
mindsets seeing business as a well oiled machine versus intelligent
ecosism system. Why does that shift in thinking matter so much?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Well, here's the thing about that. If you take a
look at a well oiled machine, a machine is there
for the benefit of its owners. So if I own
a car, my family and I get to use the car.
In fact, some people would say anybody with teenage kids
would say, well, actually the car's there for them. It's
really we don't get it anymore unless we have to
(12:12):
pick them up from soccer practice and things like that.
It's like, okay, but they're part of the family unit
that represents the ownership. The people are literally the wheels
and the electrical system and you know, and the pistons
and the sparkplant. They're literally treated as cogs in a system.
So you know, I've heard many people say, listen, people
(12:32):
come and people go. Your systems are there to stay,
so you should really focus on your systems and then
and then you just get the people that are appropriate to that.
What that doesn't do is it doesn't really it doesn't
account for the fact that where the power sits is
with these teams of people who are actually generating your
results in a service based business. And this is even
(12:53):
more important when you've got businesses that are based on
their expertise of the people. So whether it's professional services
like architecture, engineer, daring, medicine, you know, different aspects of
health or whether it's in professional trades and you know,
whether it's whether it's carpenters, electricians, plumbers, you know, stone guys.
I mean, there's a lot of people in a lot
of different technical trades as well as professional services, where
(13:18):
it's the expertise of the people that's actually generating the result.
So so if I in an ecosystem where the well
machine is there for the benefit of its owners, the
ecosystem is there for the benefit of its owners, and
also the clients are customers, but it's also there for
each of the staff. So it feels more dangerous to
(13:40):
go to an ecosystem because I don't necessarily control an ecosystem.
I mean, nobody in their right mind would say they
control a beehive. Okay, yeah, we see beehives where what
you do is you actually set the environment and let
them do their thing, and they figure it out and
they do their thing, and there's lots of honey that
comes from you know, behives that have thousands of bees
(14:02):
in them, But at the same time, nobody controls it.
Whereas there's this illusion of control with a with a
well oiled machine, and we actually think that we can
maintain control, and I don't know about you, but you
know what, Neither you nor I we want to be controlled.
Neither one of us does. In fact, we don't even
control our relationship between each other. So there's you and
(14:26):
there's me. Unless I start to control you, I'm not
going to be able to control the relationship. Now I
influence the relationship and you influence the relationship. But we
have this dynamic between us where we both influence it.
It's not about who controls it per se yet yet
as the company grows, this is one of the issues
that happens is in addition to outstripping your structures, you're
(14:49):
in a situation where you got a lot more people,
and a lot more people means a lot more of
these one on one relationships. And in fact, the numbers
of one on one relationships they actually multiply as you add.
So when I've got four people in a company, I've
got like six one on one relationships. If I get
to twenty five people in the company, I now have
three hundred one on one relationships. If I go from
(15:10):
twenty five to fifty people, I have twelve hundred and
twenty five one on one relationships, and heaven forbid, I
get to one hundred person company. Now I have almost
five thousand, four thy nine hundred and fifty one on
one relationships and one hundred person company. Okay, is there
any question why the seating arrangement at the wedding is
such a nightmare. I can't sit Jerry next to Missus McGillicutty.
(15:32):
He'll talk your ear off and I'll hear about it
for months. I mean, I mean seriously, you know, and
it's one thing, something as trivial as that, but it's
not even trivial. But but you do that inside of
a business, it gets impossible. So people have this illusion
that there's control with a well machine, whereas with an ecosystem.
If you can get past the notion of control and
(15:53):
you can actually work with the ecosystem, you're in a
situation where you've got something that's way more powerful. People
actually work at their best, and you can actually turn
this into something that matters for everybody and gives you
your freedom.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
When you think about friction that can happen inside companies,
there are two core issues you say that often class
and create that of friction. Can you break those two
down for us? And how can leaders do a better job,
get in ahead if possible.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Well, it goes back to the notion absolutely, So it
goes back to the notion of outstripping your structure. So
there's the systems and structures and processes that you've got,
and then there's the swelling numbers of people that are involved,
and those two running into each other. What happens again
the term herding cats. Everybody now understands what hurting cats
is about, you know, especially when there's all these relationships there.
(16:47):
So what people do is they outstrip their structures. They
try to bring in better structures that try to get
people to do what I want them to do. And
that's where they make their mistake. Whereas whereas, yes, there
are more people there and you know, and they all
have different needs in that, but instead of actually trying
to use the structures to get them to do what
(17:08):
I want them to do. There's two things you need
to do. One is to understand a few core basics
of human behavior, and then the second thing is is
to deal with those elements of human behavior so that
you can actually achieve the results. So, for example, the
four key elements. One, we all have a biological need
to survive. We will do whatever it takes to survive.
(17:29):
Number two, we all have an innate desire to thrive. Now,
of the two survival and thriving, survival will always trump thriving. However,
you don't need to get all your survival needs done forever,
because otherwise, why would a five year old ever share
a toy? I mean, you know. The third one is
both the need and the ability to connect with each other,
(17:53):
and the fourth one is to adapt to an environment,
even if the environment is one we don't want. So
a lot of people were unhappy about the pandemic, yet
we still found a way through and things that we
never thought were possible, we actually managed to find a
way to get pass from that side. So the more
(18:14):
you start seeing survive, thrive, connect and adapt and how
they play in things, and then if I can put
in structures to support people to feel safe and give
them access to thriving and actually create the environment where
people can connect with each other so that as they
do adapt to a constantly changing environment, they can actually
do it with each other. You're in a situation where
(18:36):
they start carrying more of the load on their own
because guess what if you've hired right which hiring is
literally half the game. But if you've hired the right
people and you put them together based on complementary strengths,
the biggest job is just to stay the heck out
of their way and let them do their job, because
if they do, you know what, that's when they get
the satisfaction and that's when they really thrive. It's thriving
(18:57):
with each other so that actually, you know, they need
to understand those elements of human behavior and the impact
of that on how people work together.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Once again, listen to we Focus Radio on talking to
our guests today Michael watsco his website. His website is
Washbusiness growth dot com. My next question for you is
in your experience, what have you seen change with leaders
when they finally realize that their business should work not
just for them? Excuse me ly you rephrase that, when
(19:31):
they finally realize that the business should work for them
instead of working just because of them.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
What the result of that is that people actually feel
more ease, They actually learn to trust their people more. Now,
even that's taking a step at a time. They need
to work with it at small steps and allow people
to grow with that. But as they do that, what
they find is that they get to do the stuff
that they're uniquely qual like themselves at that actually make
(20:02):
a big difference in the company, and they get to
partner with their fellow employees and together what happens is
you just get something that's way stronger. You've got everybody
working at their strengths, which we all prefer, and instead
of some notion that this is some utopian, you know,
perfection thing that's not accessible. Actually, there's many companies that
(20:25):
are doing this and they're just having more fun.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
And that's the dream right there. That's that's the dream
that everyone wants to see. Like when you're playing golf,
you want you want to be in the green, you
don't want to be in the sand. When you're thinking
about the opportunities to hive achieving leaders.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Who are on the come up.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
In their ranks and within these companies, how do you
see the best help for them. While you're trusting them
to carry the vision, you still at the same time
want them to operate within the means of the business.
High slows what would you say to those up and
(21:06):
coming leaders or rise up the ranks and preveying them
for slowing down?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
What I would say is assuming that you know how
to hire people. And if you don't learn, there are
places to learn that. Instead of worrying about telling people
what to do or trying to get them to do anything,
stop and listen and notice, to what extent are the
people in my organization surviving? To what extent are they thriving.
(21:34):
To what the extent are they pretending they're thriving but
really operating from fear? To what extent are they connecting
protectively versus connecting to create something cool? If you can
create this environment that's actually not troublesome, it is kind
of a safe way. And safe environment doesn't mean, you know,
give everybody a blanket and tuck them in it. And
I sometimes engagement is made by provoking people are you
(21:56):
up for this? And they're like, yeah, I'm up for
Then they have a chance to actually thrive and so
to create, you know, just by noticing what's going on
with human behavior, these four very simple aspects. The minute
you start looking for it, you'll start to see it.
And if people start seeing that as an up and
coming leader, then they'll navigate their way with their people differently,
(22:17):
and they'll be able to naturally nurture that and just
quietly take steps along the way for.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
That business owner who's listening right now, and they feel
like they know that they have a chance to switch
everything in their business for it to thrive, but at
the same time, they still feel like they have to
hold a tight grip and make sure everything's done right,
so to speak. What would you say to them to
(22:45):
help them navigate that delicacy, Because yes, you'll understand, you
want to take those risks and make things happen, but
at the same time you don't want to lose yourself
and creating this perfect environment.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Okay. So I was born in cana and in Canada
we love hockey. So there's a term in hockey called
holding the stick too tight. How do I take a
good shot and make it a bad shot? I hold
the stick through place. So you can say, I want
this business to thrive, but while I'm busy hanging onder this,
it just doesn't work, okay. And the other side of
(23:21):
that is, I mean for those that are not into sports.
I also play the bandjo. No, I'm not the greatest
at it, but one of the things that I learned,
you know, when they get their fingers go really really fast,
the only way to do that is to relax the hand.
If the hand is working too hard, it doesn't work.
You need to be able to relax and actually allow
it to flow. The more you can relax with the
(23:41):
people that you've got, you know, the better everything goes.
So sometimes what there is to do. One of the
best pieces of advice that I was given years and
years ago, it was Michael, if you're too stressed and
too tense, breathe and you know what, in the next
maybe an ideal come to you. And if that breadth
(24:03):
only goes down to your neck pre deeper you your
lungs are bigger than that. Just breathe and you know what,
allow for life to help.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
That's really good. I'm going to take that personally, because
when you are caught up in the excitement of the
vision and then it's almost no comedy intended, but it
might go there. It's a turntable scratch when rarely hits
you and you're like, WHOA, I'm actually here when I
(24:37):
actually want to be further down the road. If someone's
watching this and listening to us right now and they
feel like they're at that spot, is that a personal
growth thing that they need to work on, or is
there a combination of other things as well?
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Well? The thing there's always a combination. But the one
thing I will say about that is that your business
will only grow to the extent that you grow. If
I'm not growing my business can't I will. I will
naturally have a limit, and the limit is usually wherever
my growth limit is. So if I'm not willing to
grow me, my business is probably not going to grow
too far, not without a whole bunch of struggle and
(25:17):
sometimes just sort of breathing into it and allowing it
to occur. It's like trusting people. Well, I don't want
to give away my trust to people, or I could
just notice where they're good and let them do a
little bit more of that, because you know what, the
stuff they're really good at that I do trust. Okay,
So then what if I put them with somebody else
who's got a strength where they've got a weak spot.
(25:37):
I trust that person with that, And all of a sudden,
I'm sitting back and relaxing and again, one small step
at a time, allowing it to occur. So I don't
need to do any wholesale changes. All I need to
do is just start to notice and allow it to evolve,
and I will grow through that process. I don't have
to worry about, you know, going to some self help
thing here or there. I mean, it's always nice to
(25:58):
have an outside set of eyes if you can get it.
But I got to tell you there's a lot of
places where you can get different perspectives. But if you
allow for your own growth and development through the process,
everything just gets a lot easier and you don't have
to go, well, I guess I have to grow myself.
Maybe you just have to allow that you don't already
know everything, or you don't need to know everything. Takes
the pressure off and allows you to learn.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Man, this is a masterclass. I appreciate having our guests
on today. Michael Washby on the show. Make sure you
go to his website is washed Business Growth dot com.
The last thing I want to ask you is it's
almost more detail on your resources or if you have
any upcoming events in the future. What's the best way
(26:41):
that they can stay in touch with you and your updates.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Well, the first thing I would say is go check
out the latest book, Freedom by Design, and that's in
print copy kindle copy as well as the audible books.
For those that like to listen, as many podcasters may,
the thing is just keep an eye on the website.
Starting in the fall, we're actually going to be adding
more of the events and things that we're dealing with
(27:07):
to the website as we go, So if you just
stay tuned there, then you'll find that you'll be able
to keep up to date with what's going on.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Like I always want to say to you, appreciate your
time there, well, thank you so much.
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