Midnight Train From Georgia is an inspiring and emotional journey through the life and career of William Franklin Guest, a founding member of Gladys Knight and the Pips. The book discusses William’s love for music as a child growing up in a musical family and the formation of the group. The book explores the group’s meteoric rise to fame, the challenges of the music industry, and the personal struggles of a man determined to leave his mark on the world. This is not just a story of Gladys Knight and the Pips; it’s a universal tale of family, faith, love, loss, and the pursuit of dreams against all odds. Midnight Train From Georgia captures the heart of an era, the music that defined it, and the man who lived through it all. It combines emotional introspection with the dynamic energy of music during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
Dhyana Ziegler, Ph.D., DCJ: A Trailblazing Career Dr. Dhyana Ziegler has had an extraordinary career marked by groundbreaking achievements. She has been knighted, served under three governors, and founded ZCreators, a digital media production and consulting service that has thrived for over 22 years. Her extensive background includes work as a journalist, ad copywriter, radio producer, songwriter, and professor with more than 35 years of experience in academia. She has served as an administrator, contributed to numerous boards, and produced over 100 videos and multimedia works. She has also presented at dozens of international and national conferences. In the 1970s, Dr. Ziegler wrote the song "Time Moves On" for the band Strutt, which topped the music charts. However, one of her most cherished roles was as sister-in-law to William Guest, a founding member of Gladys Knight & The Pips. This connection led her to author Guest’s biography, "Midnight Train From Georgia," an award-winning book. Academic and Leadership Contributions Dr. Ziegler is Professor Emerita at Florida A&M University’s School of Journalism & Graphic Communications. Before that, at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville, she held several prestigious leadership positions, including:
https://dhyanaziegler.ampbk.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/i-am-refocused-radio--2671113/support.
Dhyana Ziegler, Ph.D., DCJ: A Trailblazing Career Dr. Dhyana Ziegler has had an extraordinary career marked by groundbreaking achievements. She has been knighted, served under three governors, and founded ZCreators, a digital media production and consulting service that has thrived for over 22 years. Her extensive background includes work as a journalist, ad copywriter, radio producer, songwriter, and professor with more than 35 years of experience in academia. She has served as an administrator, contributed to numerous boards, and produced over 100 videos and multimedia works. She has also presented at dozens of international and national conferences. In the 1970s, Dr. Ziegler wrote the song "Time Moves On" for the band Strutt, which topped the music charts. However, one of her most cherished roles was as sister-in-law to William Guest, a founding member of Gladys Knight & The Pips. This connection led her to author Guest’s biography, "Midnight Train From Georgia," an award-winning book. Academic and Leadership Contributions Dr. Ziegler is Professor Emerita at Florida A&M University’s School of Journalism & Graphic Communications. Before that, at the University of Tennessee-Knoxville, she held several prestigious leadership positions, including:
- President of the Black Faculty and Staff Association
- Chair of the Commission for Blacks
- Chair of the Commission on Women
- First and only African American elected President of the Faculty Senate (1994)
- Inaugural Inductee into the University of Tennessee-Knoxville African American Hall of Fame
- Five terms on the Florida Virtual School Board of Trustees
- Two terms on the Florida Commission on the Status of Women (where she was elected Chair of both entities)
- Knighted as a Dame of Justice (2008, England) by the Sovereign Order of the Knights of Justice
- Member of the Oxford Roundtable
- Women of Distinction Award (2012) – Girl Scouts of the Florida Panhandle
- 2014 Trailblazer Award – Oasis Center for Women and Girls
- 2017 Women on the Move – ONYX Magazine
- Legacy Leadership Award (2017) – Florida Virtual School
- Top 25 Women You Should Know (2022) – Tallahassee Democrat
- Ph.D. in Higher Education – Southern Illinois University, Carbondale
- M.A. in Radio and Television – Southern Illinois University, Carbondale
- B.S. in Journalism and Music (Cum Laude) – Baruch College, CUNY
- Certificate in Management and Leadership in Education – Harvard University, Graduate School of Education
https://dhyanaziegler.ampbk.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/i-am-refocused-radio--2671113/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to I Am Refocused Radio with your
host Shamaiah read This show is designed to inspire you
to live your purpose and regain your focus. And now
here's your host, Shamaiah Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hey, welcome to Ivan Res Radio. Once again, we are
here today and just like any other time, we have
another special guest. Today we have a true honor talking
to lady doctor Dianna Zigler. She's the author of the
book that I suggest she should go check out is
Midnight Trying from Georgia. Is a life and legacy of
William guests, and she is going to share with us
(00:40):
not just a story about that, but everything that is
in detail about his life. I'm so happy to have
the honor to have her on the show today. I
know she's super busy, she's larry out of town and
still being committed to do the interview, so I appreciate
her time spending some time with us today. So first
and foremost, I want to say to you, Deanna, how
are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I'm doing fine, And let me say thank you for
the invitation I monted to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, I know you have a lot that you can
talk about for yourself because you have a very powerful
resume in porfolio and from a professional standpoint, truly amazing.
And I understand that you want to focus on telling
the story of the great and rest in peace to
the one. The subject of today's story, William Guess. He
(01:30):
is sowing that people should know, especially when it comes
to rich music history in Motown. Ill wish you had
before and have the honest can educate our audience, lay
down the foundation of why his story so important to know.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, first of all, it is a coming of age
story just in the short term of kids who had
a dream, family, faith and love. A lot of people
do not know that the group they know is Gladysang
the Pips is not the original group.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
The original group.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Started five kids, Gladys Knight, her brother Bubba Knight, her
sister Bryndight, my brother in law William Guests and his
sister Eleanor Guest. They were raised in Atlanta, Georgia, in
the church, so it really started at Mount Mariah Baptist Church.
(02:32):
But even before they started singing as kids as a group,
my brother in law would would he would say, and
I call the Bebra so you'll hear me go from
Williams Babru. But he would say that he started music
from being probably singing and dancing because his family, his grandmother,
(02:54):
his mother, his father, and his uncle they sang on
the back porch at their house for the neighbors, so
the neighbors would gather just to hear the grandmother and
the uncle playing the guitar and singing when.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
He was a little boy.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
In fact, he learned harmony from grandmother while she was
cooking in the kitchen. Eleana is his sister who was
thres over than him, but they both grew up in
the church. So that foundation of family spirituality because they
(03:38):
were very very religious, and the creativity and having this
dream is where basically the book starts now because they
were all related as distant cousins. When I moved from
what they would call the country and Bagley Park to
the city in Atlanta, that's where the birth of.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
The group begins.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
At Mount Mariah Baptist Church, William's mother, I was going
to say William's mother and Gladys mother and father.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
They sang in the.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Adult gospel choir and the kids started singing in the
youth choir.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Had a question.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
When you look at your relationship that you had with William.
You also had an opportunity to interview him, and that
was years before he's passing in twenty seventeen. How did
that impact how you were able to put the book together?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well, first of all, I loved the story.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
My brother in laws been in my life since I
was eleven years old, so the journey when he met
my sister, I was eleven. So when they came to
New York in the Apollo Theater, we were already involved music.
My father was the lead singer for the gospel group.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
And then my.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Sister and I said dance fan. We all studied dance
at Minncent Community Center where Debbie Allen.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And all of that.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Because our arts came from communism in Halem, so we were.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Already engaged in music.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
In fact, it was my mother who knew Bobby Ronson,
who became their manager in New York, and actually took
my sister to an event to hear them be India
when they left Atlanta and came to Harlem, and that's
how they met back there.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
So living story.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And I'm a journalist so and I'm a broadcast journalist,
so having a camera and photography, I was doing that
most of my life. In fact, in the early days,
I was also the executive vice president for Pa Guest Production,
who was Edward Patton and my brother in law, William Guest,
(06:09):
and I have a music background too. I had a
number one song Time Moves on by groups Struck in
Record World Disco in nineteen sixty five. Although my life
took me on then to become a professor and PhD.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
So I grew up living this story.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
In fact, in nineteen sixty six when we moved to
well My sister and brother in law got married in
nineteen sixty five. They moved to Motown in nineteen sixty six.
In fact, that was the same year that I graduated,
So I remember every time I heard it through the
(06:49):
grapevine would come and play on the radio. My mother
used to say, because my sister had one child at
that time, Monique has another pair of shoes. So you know,
we lived the story. My brother in law as well
as the rest of the Pips. We were just one
family when we got together. I mean my mother, Mama
(07:13):
and Knight. We always call each other Mama, Guests Mama
and Knight Mama Ziggler. They used to help shop for
gladys stresses, so we all became one family. And the
I just happened to start maybe five or.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Six years before his death. Just in every event, I.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Have a camera, I said, and so I would be
taking other things. But I just decided at that time
was to do a documentary.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And it wasn't no rush, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I thought he would be around for a long time
and we could evolve this piece and all the pieces
to make it a full fledged documentary. And and of
course life happens any past. But I had more than
and I still have enough for a documentary. It's just
(08:10):
like putting their broadcasting. It's just like putting everything together,
but I need all the other footage that goes along
with it.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
That's of course.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Show will then entail all these licenses and stuff like that.
So people are always asking me, what am I going
to do with the footage.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Well, I'm going to live for a minute and take
it to the next step.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Once again, you're listening watching us online. I'm focused radio
talking to our guest today, Lady doctor Deana Zickler. Go
to any book store that you can find Amazon online
and get the book that we're talking about, the Great
Legacy of William guests. The title of the book is
Midnight Train from Georgia. It's definitely something that should be
(08:56):
part of history lessons and definitely share with the masses.
So I want to say again thank you for the
great work that you're doing with this project. My next
question is you being creative individual yourself. How did your
creative background journalism, writing, media and so forth. How did
(09:17):
that background kind of position you to make this project
in such a creative way, not just you know, a
typical way, but in a special way where you really
have some great insight in how things work in the
media world.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well again, growing up in the business, that's one thing.
The other thing is I was writing ever since.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
In fact, people don't believe it because I trained myself
to be an extrovert. But I'm an introvert who wrote
everybody letters. So my family, they would get letters from
me and my sister and stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I would go off.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
By myself, So I was always sort of internal, int affecting,
looking at things, trying to figure things.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Out, so you know the process.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
By the time I got to my brother in law store,
I had written in academic books. You know, it's either
you're going to either do it topically or you're going
to do it and mixed the two again, and being
able to do that as a journalist, and also just
taking the popular song Midnight Trained to Georgia and putting
(10:31):
a from in it because they left Georgia and came
to New York and the Apollo Theater, and then having
Mammierite May's, who was Willie Mays's ex ys manager, and
then to bring in Charlie Atkins for the dancing from
(10:51):
the Cole and the Cole and Atkins group back in
the past for apping and stuff. That's where those petition
dance steps came in.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Marguerite May's found them Charlie.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Atkins and had Charlie Atkins polish up there and when.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
They went to Motown, Charlie went with them.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Charlie not only polished up Glad of Night and the Pips,
but that he worked with the Temptations, all the groups.
So you know, again we were one family.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
We lived it. We still had access to all of people.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
My brother in law was a big personality, so it
was very easy to follow him with a camera and
get all of these stories. The big thing is, I
mean he told stories a lot, and he.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
But he would tell the stories and.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
So if there was any challenge, I had the stories
five or six times and had to tell them, you know,
indifferent and shape it and and fashion it with what
I lived, and also put some of my own commentary
in to explains that were not you know, too clear
(12:09):
from my observation. So I wanted to do that. I mean,
I've interviewed. I mean, Alex Haley was one of my mentors.
I had, you know, a big interview with him.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
So this is what I do.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
But you know, when it comes to family, the fashioning
and the shaping is different. So I want to go
to Detroit, and some occasions he came down to Florida,
you know, for two or three days, especially towards the
end of his life, and it was really important to
him that he wanted to leave this rich legacy behind
(12:48):
and help young people in the business make number one,
the same mistakes that they may have made, but also
to explain the business and how you sort of just
get through the maze of all the challenges and the
temptations that were out there. I mean, because if you
(13:08):
think of them, I always call them an apple pie group,
you know, there's not a lot of scandal and different things.
That's so there's a lot there's a spiritual foundation because
a lot of this was couch and faith.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
They prayed before every performance. This was just the way
they did from little kids.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
So that spiritual foundation, that love, and that they were
committed to be the best that they could be, to
deliver the best music, to deliver the best entertainment, no tummunity,
and that's what they.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Did, and history shows the music speaks for herself. Rich Legacy.
I mean, everyone loves Motown. I mean, at least the
people I know they Motown, and I think it's awesome
to always hear the behind the scenes of what it
(14:07):
was like, what you know they had to go through,
the success they actually had, but the challenges along the way.
You mentioned about teaching young people lessons learned, and I
think that's very crucial because a lot of times we're guessing, right,
young people are like, well, how do you do this?
And how did they do that? You know, so that
preps up my next question. You spoke about faith, you
(14:31):
also highlight the role of family and church with the
music of William's life. What do you hope that readers
will be able to take away from those things.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Well that you know, harmony is a lot more than
musical notes. You know, it's a spirituality, it's a coming together.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
That that was their foundation.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
They had harmony vocally and spiritually, so that that was
always important to all of them that they kept that foundation,
that they kept that faith. And when he basically wanted
to tell the story because you know, they were ripped
(15:18):
off a lot. They had a lot of challenges back
in the fifties and sixties just kind of change through
them south. So but the tenacity that kept them together
for thirty seven years.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Into Aronto Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
That was the glue that kept them together is that
spirituality that was embedded in them from babies. So that
was the then that foundation kept things, I would say
as smooth as they could be in this business because
there's so many temptations out there and reading the book,
(15:57):
and I would be the first to tell anyone with
he was not a saint. You know, he made a
lot of mistakes and stuff and he shared that and
that was the other issue. He wanted people to look
at all the temptations. See the way the music industry
is now, you can stream and stuff, and people just
(16:18):
get this money.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
They struggled.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Even when they made money and had hit records, they
didn't get it because they would say, oh, well, you
know those suits you had or ever, so a lot
of those entertainers during that time, and they even had
problems with Motown in the contract.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
You know, we're getting ripped off.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
They eventually moved to Buddha Records where they hit Midnight
Train to Georgia, came in the Grammar records and stuff,
and eventually getting them into the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame, so that I would say, the Harney is
something important to learn. And again they had some intuitive
(17:03):
things that were a lot of just their background, which
was the foundation that never left them. It came from
he never forgot where he came from. They always wanted
to give back.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I remember you mentioned earlier talking about how they would
pray before each performance. Having that type of mindset and
having that kind of security in one's faith. Do you
believe that's why your family, including yourself, have been able
to do so many things that the average person will
(17:42):
never even probably see happen their lifetime, because y'all have
truly made not just history, but made a real impact
in the muse industry and culture, right.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I mean even watching them, you know, helped me. Like
I said, it's been in my life since eleven years old.
I mean he would sit me down as a little girl.
You know, I don't ever want to hear I mean
he did not want us backstage.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It was certain things.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I mean, it was always protection and he always you know,
lifted up.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
You know, I was the I became a professor, and
you know.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
I was also besides writing music myself, I was an athising,
so I was a copywriter.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Producer, I'm a producer director.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
So he always you know, lifted us up to be
whatever we could we wanted to be, but never put
us down.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
When he made mistakes.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
He would talk to us and learn and contrast his
life with what may have happened and create a bridge
of understanding with then I would say okay, And I
mean I could still hear voices in the back of
my head. I mean he called me a little I
(19:00):
die until I was until he died, you know. So
and he would say we were partners, you know, because
we could you know, not only deal with the music
and entertainment, but he would sit us all down, you know,
and just pour out wisdom based on what the things
(19:21):
that they learned on the road and the things not
to do and always be a lady and don't ever
want to hear anything, you know, and protected us. It's
so funny because all of us because he was in
a car accident, he was sleep. I mean, he give
you an example. He never allowed.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Us to sleep.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Many cars, always be almost lost his life. You know,
there were certain things that you know, some may consider
superstitious and we laugh and stuff, but we used to
do it because it was an understand and he had
a connection to a story of why this should not
(20:05):
be done or why it would be best to do
something another way. So, you know, towards those last five
years or so, it was really about leaving the wisdom
behind for young people. I mean, he was still writing
and trying to record an album up until his death.
(20:26):
So he never stopped singing. He never stopped playing, and
people don't know. Early on he wrote the song Linda
and Darling while Gladys went and left the group for
a while and had children, and Bobby even said that
that he kept the group alive with his writing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
So he wrote Linda wrote Darling.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
But what's important And I didn't know that this until
the funeral when Bubba told us that he put the.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
And Midnight Train.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
They did the choreography because they could not find Charlie
Atkins and they didn't have enough time. And Bubba told
the story about He says, look, we got to put
that in there. People are going to remember that whistle
and it, you know. So that was one story that
we learned. And we thought we knew everything, but we
(21:24):
didn't know that until you know, the funeral.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So that was an important piece to learn.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And you know, again some people will say that he
was the best. Then he tried always to get the
steps very precise. I have not seen the dancing that
was back there in those days here now getting those
steps in those precisions. I mean you might see it
(21:50):
in marching bands, you know, but I don't see it,
you know, on stage.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
And you know, it was just a class nack all around.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Once again, you're watching and listen to us online. I'll
be focused radio talking to our special guest lady, doctor
Donna Zigler. Go to Amazon anywhere and give a book
and get a copy of Midnight Train from Georgia. Celebrate
the life and legacy of William Guests. True honor having
you on today. I understand the weight of successes is
(22:24):
not it's not always something easy to carry. And for
you and your family to be able to be part
of rich history, that's that's powerful, and not everybody can
say they contributed to something as massive when you think
of music and media. So I want to ask this
(22:45):
question on that note, when you see how much of
an impact you your family have made and contributed to
culture and music, what's some of the responsibilities that maybe
way on kind of share with you how to sustain success,
(23:06):
Because it's one thing to be able to have the
privilege to have a platform was another different thing to
actually use in a way that's bigger than yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Well, you know, one of these things I could say
ties into my background that there was an ethics character.
I would tell my students character is the one thing that's.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Going to separate you from the crowd.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
And he taught us character, you know, that foundation of
how to being, how to act, you know, throughout the lifetime.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I mean it was a role map.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So that sustainability I remember even in my own challenges
in academ yea or so I mean before a ten
year full professor, before I got knighted. Let stuff, you know,
just the challenges of being a black woman, trying to
(24:07):
make it be successful against all odds, doing things that
people didn't necessarily do.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
You don't get to look for that, okay.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
So that foundation of holding your head up, putting on
your best clothes to go in and sit there and
smile when you may want to feel a different way
to always sustain that foundation and character.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
That was a big thing.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
And that's why I always call them an apple pie
group because it was about character clubs. And if you
see and my sister has, you know, tried to give
that to.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Her kids, I'll passcape us.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
You know, don't let me hear anything about you out there.
And that foundation really helped sustain me and deal with
some of the challenges I had to deal with. And
I believe that that was the string of sense because
they never saw the pain, they never saw the challenges.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
They saw great performances, great entertainment.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And we mentioned the word character. You also have family
wisdom that especially his grandmother's lessons. How do you believe
that also made an impact on his life and his
ability to sustain his success and his career.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Well, he was a family man. I mean when I
say that we were one family. If we get together,
maybe forty people in the room. But he loved Mama Tilly.
That was her name, Mamma Tilli. And again he and
he loved his well, he never wanted to disappoint his family.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Again.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
That church foundation, he'll te he tells stories in the
book about him, you know, cutting up in church and
Mama Tilly would just give him that look. Again when
you walk out there, you're not just walking out there
as William. You're walking out there as a symbol of
the Guest family, a symbol of the Ziggler family, a
(26:25):
symbol of the legacy that you want, you know, for
your family and you want to leave a good one behind.
So that foundation, and there was a lot of music.
There was a lot of love, and there was a
lot of laughter.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I mean we.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Always laughed and played music and love. I mean up
until you know his death. And my niece and I
were the last you know, two with him. When to
just get the little but even that what's so important,
(27:03):
even about that night, because to show you how poor
the relationships were.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Bubba flew from.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Vegas to Detroit, got there maybe three o'clock.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
In the morning when they knew that he was called.
We don't know what he said to him.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
He called from the airport, just spent a couple of
hours and flew right back.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
No, but he had that pim moment. And that's the
way we all were, you know. I mean, we couldn't
hold on forever.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But it was such a gounde for me personally. My
sister and he got married three weeks before my brother passed.
He became the brother, the son and everything that enriched
our lives. So he was more I always say my
(27:55):
brother slash brother in law because it was a lot
bigger than just being I grow married to my sister
because I never got in between them and their stuff.
It was all separate, you know, they dealt with their stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
That's my sister, that's my brother.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
But the one thing, they loved each other till his
death in spite of the challenges, and he took a
sample as a family and that was the foundation that
he learned from his family, because a lot of our families,
you know, sort of disconnected and stuff. But we stay
together even now on the Ziggler side and my cousins
(28:37):
and stuff, and the guests. We're all still one family,
as well as the Night Children. They're all on Facebook together.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But once again, if you're watching us and listen to
us online I'm focused radio, make sure you get a
copy of the book. Midnight Train from Georgia is available
anywhere you can give a book online. I want to
say to our special guests, not only have you really
gave us a great life history lesson, but I think
it's an important one to recognize the great minds and
(29:09):
the great arts of human beings who actually made a
difference in this world. So I want to say thank
you for your time and appreciate everything that you and
your family have contributed to not just culture but music
as a whole, because that's not easy to do that.
It's a lot of people today that wish stay and
have a legacy as rich as that. So just want
(29:32):
to say again thank you for your time to share
with us this amazing story.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.
You are listening to I Am Refocused Radio with your
host Shamaiah read This show is designed to inspire you
to live your purpose and regain your focus. And now
here's your host, Shamaiah Reid.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hey, welcome to Ivan Res Radio. Once again, we are
here today and just like any other time, we have
another special guest. Today we have a true honor talking
to lady doctor Dianna Zigler. She's the author of the
book that I suggest she should go check out is
Midnight Trying from Georgia. Is a life and legacy of
William guests, and she is going to share with us
(00:40):
not just a story about that, but everything that is
in detail about his life. I'm so happy to have
the honor to have her on the show today. I
know she's super busy, she's larry out of town and
still being committed to do the interview, so I appreciate
her time spending some time with us today. So first
and foremost, I want to say to you, Deanna, how
are you doing today?
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I'm doing fine, And let me say thank you for
the invitation I monted to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Well, I know you have a lot that you can
talk about for yourself because you have a very powerful
resume in porfolio and from a professional standpoint, truly amazing.
And I understand that you want to focus on telling
the story of the great and rest in peace to
the one. The subject of today's story, William Guess. He
(01:30):
is sowing that people should know, especially when it comes
to rich music history in Motown. Ill wish you had
before and have the honest can educate our audience, lay
down the foundation of why his story so important to know.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well, first of all, it is a coming of age
story just in the short term of kids who had
a dream, family, faith and love. A lot of people
do not know that the group they know is Gladysang
the Pips is not the original group.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
The original group.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Started five kids, Gladys Knight, her brother Bubba Knight, her
sister Bryndight, my brother in law William Guests and his
sister Eleanor Guest. They were raised in Atlanta, Georgia, in
the church, so it really started at Mount Mariah Baptist Church.
(02:32):
But even before they started singing as kids as a group,
my brother in law would would he would say, and
I call the Bebra so you'll hear me go from
Williams Babru. But he would say that he started music
from being probably singing and dancing because his family, his grandmother,
(02:54):
his mother, his father, and his uncle they sang on
the back porch at their house for the neighbors, so
the neighbors would gather just to hear the grandmother and
the uncle playing the guitar and singing when.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
He was a little boy.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
In fact, he learned harmony from grandmother while she was
cooking in the kitchen. Eleana is his sister who was
thres over than him, but they both grew up in
the church. So that foundation of family spirituality because they
(03:38):
were very very religious, and the creativity and having this
dream is where basically the book starts now because they
were all related as distant cousins. When I moved from
what they would call the country and Bagley Park to
the city in Atlanta, that's where the birth of.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
The group begins.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
At Mount Mariah Baptist Church, William's mother, I was going
to say William's mother and Gladys mother and father.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
They sang in the.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Adult gospel choir and the kids started singing in the
youth choir.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Had a question.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
When you look at your relationship that you had with William.
You also had an opportunity to interview him, and that
was years before he's passing in twenty seventeen. How did
that impact how you were able to put the book together?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well, first of all, I loved the story.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
My brother in laws been in my life since I
was eleven years old, so the journey when he met
my sister, I was eleven. So when they came to
New York in the Apollo Theater, we were already involved music.
My father was the lead singer for the gospel group.
Speaker 4 (05:07):
And then my.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Sister and I said dance fan. We all studied dance
at Minncent Community Center where Debbie Allen.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
And all of that.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Because our arts came from communism in Halem, so we were.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Already engaged in music.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
In fact, it was my mother who knew Bobby Ronson,
who became their manager in New York, and actually took
my sister to an event to hear them be India
when they left Atlanta and came to Harlem, and that's
how they met back there.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
So living story.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
And I'm a journalist so and I'm a broadcast journalist,
so having a camera and photography, I was doing that
most of my life. In fact, in the early days,
I was also the executive vice president for Pa Guest Production,
who was Edward Patton and my brother in law, William Guest,
(06:09):
and I have a music background too. I had a
number one song Time Moves on by groups Struck in
Record World Disco in nineteen sixty five. Although my life
took me on then to become a professor and PhD.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
So I grew up living this story.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
In fact, in nineteen sixty six when we moved to
well My sister and brother in law got married in
nineteen sixty five. They moved to Motown in nineteen sixty six.
In fact, that was the same year that I graduated,
So I remember every time I heard it through the
(06:49):
grapevine would come and play on the radio. My mother
used to say, because my sister had one child at
that time, Monique has another pair of shoes. So you know,
we lived the story. My brother in law as well
as the rest of the Pips. We were just one
family when we got together. I mean my mother, Mama
(07:13):
and Knight. We always call each other Mama, Guests Mama
and Knight Mama Ziggler. They used to help shop for
gladys stresses, so we all became one family. And the
I just happened to start maybe five or.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Six years before his death. Just in every event, I.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Have a camera, I said, and so I would be
taking other things. But I just decided at that time
was to do a documentary.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
And it wasn't no rush, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I thought he would be around for a long time
and we could evolve this piece and all the pieces
to make it a full fledged documentary. And and of
course life happens any past. But I had more than
and I still have enough for a documentary. It's just
(08:10):
like putting their broadcasting. It's just like putting everything together,
but I need all the other footage that goes along
with it.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
That's of course.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Show will then entail all these licenses and stuff like that.
So people are always asking me, what am I going
to do with the footage.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Well, I'm going to live for a minute and take
it to the next step.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Once again, you're listening watching us online. I'm focused radio
talking to our guest today, Lady doctor Deana Zickler. Go
to any book store that you can find Amazon online
and get the book that we're talking about, the Great
Legacy of William guests. The title of the book is
Midnight Train from Georgia. It's definitely something that should be
(08:56):
part of history lessons and definitely share with the masses.
So I want to say again thank you for the
great work that you're doing with this project. My next
question is you being creative individual yourself. How did your
creative background journalism, writing, media and so forth. How did
(09:17):
that background kind of position you to make this project
in such a creative way, not just you know, a
typical way, but in a special way where you really
have some great insight in how things work in the
media world.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well again, growing up in the business, that's one thing.
The other thing is I was writing ever since.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
In fact, people don't believe it because I trained myself
to be an extrovert. But I'm an introvert who wrote
everybody letters. So my family, they would get letters from
me and my sister and stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
I would go off.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
By myself, So I was always sort of internal, int affecting,
looking at things, trying to figure things.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Out, so you know the process.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
By the time I got to my brother in law store,
I had written in academic books. You know, it's either
you're going to either do it topically or you're going
to do it and mixed the two again, and being
able to do that as a journalist, and also just
taking the popular song Midnight Trained to Georgia and putting
(10:31):
a from in it because they left Georgia and came
to New York and the Apollo Theater, and then having
Mammierite May's, who was Willie Mays's ex ys manager, and
then to bring in Charlie Atkins for the dancing from
(10:51):
the Cole and the Cole and Atkins group back in
the past for apping and stuff. That's where those petition
dance steps came in.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Marguerite May's found them Charlie.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Atkins and had Charlie Atkins polish up there and when.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
They went to Motown, Charlie went with them.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Charlie not only polished up Glad of Night and the Pips,
but that he worked with the Temptations, all the groups.
So you know, again we were one family.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
We lived it. We still had access to all of people.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
My brother in law was a big personality, so it
was very easy to follow him with a camera and
get all of these stories. The big thing is, I
mean he told stories a lot, and he.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
But he would tell the stories and.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
So if there was any challenge, I had the stories
five or six times and had to tell them, you know,
indifferent and shape it and and fashion it with what
I lived, and also put some of my own commentary
in to explains that were not you know, too clear
(12:09):
from my observation. So I wanted to do that. I mean,
I've interviewed. I mean, Alex Haley was one of my mentors.
I had, you know, a big interview with him.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
So this is what I do.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
But you know, when it comes to family, the fashioning
and the shaping is different. So I want to go
to Detroit, and some occasions he came down to Florida,
you know, for two or three days, especially towards the
end of his life, and it was really important to
him that he wanted to leave this rich legacy behind
(12:48):
and help young people in the business make number one,
the same mistakes that they may have made, but also
to explain the business and how you sort of just
get through the maze of all the challenges and the
temptations that were out there. I mean, because if you
(13:08):
think of them, I always call them an apple pie group,
you know, there's not a lot of scandal and different things.
That's so there's a lot there's a spiritual foundation because
a lot of this was couch and faith.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
They prayed before every performance. This was just the way
they did from little kids.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
So that spiritual foundation, that love, and that they were
committed to be the best that they could be, to
deliver the best music, to deliver the best entertainment, no tummunity,
and that's what they.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Did, and history shows the music speaks for herself. Rich Legacy.
I mean, everyone loves Motown. I mean, at least the
people I know they Motown, and I think it's awesome
to always hear the behind the scenes of what it
(14:07):
was like, what you know they had to go through,
the success they actually had, but the challenges along the way.
You mentioned about teaching young people lessons learned, and I
think that's very crucial because a lot of times we're guessing, right,
young people are like, well, how do you do this?
And how did they do that? You know, so that
preps up my next question. You spoke about faith, you
(14:31):
also highlight the role of family and church with the
music of William's life. What do you hope that readers
will be able to take away from those things.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Well that you know, harmony is a lot more than
musical notes. You know, it's a spirituality, it's a coming together.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
That that was their foundation.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
They had harmony vocally and spiritually, so that that was
always important to all of them that they kept that foundation,
that they kept that faith. And when he basically wanted
to tell the story because you know, they were ripped
(15:18):
off a lot. They had a lot of challenges back
in the fifties and sixties just kind of change through
them south. So but the tenacity that kept them together
for thirty seven years.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Into Aronto Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
That was the glue that kept them together is that
spirituality that was embedded in them from babies. So that
was the then that foundation kept things, I would say
as smooth as they could be in this business because
there's so many temptations out there and reading the book,
(15:57):
and I would be the first to tell anyone with
he was not a saint. You know, he made a
lot of mistakes and stuff and he shared that and
that was the other issue. He wanted people to look
at all the temptations. See the way the music industry
is now, you can stream and stuff, and people just
(16:18):
get this money.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
They struggled.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Even when they made money and had hit records, they
didn't get it because they would say, oh, well, you
know those suits you had or ever, so a lot
of those entertainers during that time, and they even had
problems with Motown in the contract.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
You know, we're getting ripped off.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
They eventually moved to Buddha Records where they hit Midnight
Train to Georgia, came in the Grammar records and stuff,
and eventually getting them into the Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame, so that I would say, the Harney is
something important to learn. And again they had some intuitive
(17:03):
things that were a lot of just their background, which
was the foundation that never left them. It came from
he never forgot where he came from. They always wanted
to give back.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I remember you mentioned earlier talking about how they would
pray before each performance. Having that type of mindset and
having that kind of security in one's faith. Do you
believe that's why your family, including yourself, have been able
to do so many things that the average person will
(17:42):
never even probably see happen their lifetime, because y'all have
truly made not just history, but made a real impact
in the muse industry and culture, right.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I mean even watching them, you know, helped me. Like
I said, it's been in my life since eleven years old.
I mean he would sit me down as a little girl.
You know, I don't ever want to hear I mean
he did not want us backstage.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It was certain things.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
I mean, it was always protection and he always you know,
lifted up.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
You know, I was the I became a professor, and
you know.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
I was also besides writing music myself, I was an athising,
so I was a copywriter.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Producer, I'm a producer director.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
So he always you know, lifted us up to be
whatever we could we wanted to be, but never put
us down.
Speaker 4 (18:38):
When he made mistakes.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
He would talk to us and learn and contrast his
life with what may have happened and create a bridge
of understanding with then I would say okay, And I
mean I could still hear voices in the back of
my head. I mean he called me a little I
(19:00):
die until I was until he died, you know. So
and he would say we were partners, you know, because
we could you know, not only deal with the music
and entertainment, but he would sit us all down, you know,
and just pour out wisdom based on what the things
(19:21):
that they learned on the road and the things not
to do and always be a lady and don't ever
want to hear anything, you know, and protected us. It's
so funny because all of us because he was in
a car accident, he was sleep. I mean, he give
you an example. He never allowed.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Us to sleep.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Many cars, always be almost lost his life. You know,
there were certain things that you know, some may consider
superstitious and we laugh and stuff, but we used to
do it because it was an understand and he had
a connection to a story of why this should not
(20:05):
be done or why it would be best to do
something another way. So, you know, towards those last five
years or so, it was really about leaving the wisdom
behind for young people. I mean, he was still writing
and trying to record an album up until his death.
(20:26):
So he never stopped singing. He never stopped playing, and
people don't know. Early on he wrote the song Linda
and Darling while Gladys went and left the group for
a while and had children, and Bobby even said that
that he kept the group alive with his writing.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
So he wrote Linda wrote Darling.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
But what's important And I didn't know that this until
the funeral when Bubba told us that he put the.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
And Midnight Train.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
They did the choreography because they could not find Charlie
Atkins and they didn't have enough time. And Bubba told
the story about He says, look, we got to put
that in there. People are going to remember that whistle
and it, you know. So that was one story that
we learned. And we thought we knew everything, but we
(21:24):
didn't know that until you know, the funeral.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
So that was an important piece to learn.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
And you know, again some people will say that he
was the best. Then he tried always to get the
steps very precise. I have not seen the dancing that
was back there in those days here now getting those
steps in those precisions. I mean you might see it
(21:50):
in marching bands, you know, but I don't see it,
you know, on stage.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
And you know, it was just a class nack all around.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Once again, you're watching and listen to us online. I'll
be focused radio talking to our special guest lady, doctor
Donna Zigler. Go to Amazon anywhere and give a book
and get a copy of Midnight Train from Georgia. Celebrate
the life and legacy of William Guests. True honor having
you on today. I understand the weight of successes is
(22:24):
not it's not always something easy to carry. And for
you and your family to be able to be part
of rich history, that's that's powerful, and not everybody can
say they contributed to something as massive when you think
of music and media. So I want to ask this
(22:45):
question on that note, when you see how much of
an impact you your family have made and contributed to
culture and music, what's some of the responsibilities that maybe
way on kind of share with you how to sustain success,
(23:06):
Because it's one thing to be able to have the
privilege to have a platform was another different thing to
actually use in a way that's bigger than yourself.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Well, you know, one of these things I could say
ties into my background that there was an ethics character.
I would tell my students character is the one thing that's.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
Going to separate you from the crowd.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
And he taught us character, you know, that foundation of
how to being, how to act, you know, throughout the lifetime.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
I mean it was a role map.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So that sustainability I remember even in my own challenges
in academ yea or so I mean before a ten
year full professor, before I got knighted. Let stuff, you know,
just the challenges of being a black woman, trying to
(24:07):
make it be successful against all odds, doing things that
people didn't necessarily do.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
You don't get to look for that, okay.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
So that foundation of holding your head up, putting on
your best clothes to go in and sit there and
smile when you may want to feel a different way
to always sustain that foundation and character.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
That was a big thing.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
And that's why I always call them an apple pie
group because it was about character clubs. And if you
see and my sister has, you know, tried to give
that to.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Her kids, I'll passcape us.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
You know, don't let me hear anything about you out there.
And that foundation really helped sustain me and deal with
some of the challenges I had to deal with. And
I believe that that was the string of sense because
they never saw the pain, they never saw the challenges.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
They saw great performances, great entertainment.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
And we mentioned the word character. You also have family
wisdom that especially his grandmother's lessons. How do you believe
that also made an impact on his life and his
ability to sustain his success and his career.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Well, he was a family man. I mean when I
say that we were one family. If we get together,
maybe forty people in the room. But he loved Mama Tilly.
That was her name, Mamma Tilli. And again he and
he loved his well, he never wanted to disappoint his family.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Again.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
That church foundation, he'll te he tells stories in the
book about him, you know, cutting up in church and
Mama Tilly would just give him that look. Again when
you walk out there, you're not just walking out there
as William. You're walking out there as a symbol of
the Guest family, a symbol of the Ziggler family, a
(26:25):
symbol of the legacy that you want, you know, for
your family and you want to leave a good one behind.
So that foundation, and there was a lot of music.
There was a lot of love, and there was a
lot of laughter.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
I mean we.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Always laughed and played music and love. I mean up
until you know his death. And my niece and I
were the last you know, two with him. When to
just get the little but even that what's so important,
(27:03):
even about that night, because to show you how poor
the relationships were.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Bubba flew from.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Vegas to Detroit, got there maybe three o'clock.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
In the morning when they knew that he was called.
We don't know what he said to him.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
He called from the airport, just spent a couple of
hours and flew right back.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
No, but he had that pim moment. And that's the
way we all were, you know. I mean, we couldn't
hold on forever.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
But it was such a gounde for me personally. My
sister and he got married three weeks before my brother passed.
He became the brother, the son and everything that enriched
our lives. So he was more I always say my
(27:55):
brother slash brother in law because it was a lot
bigger than just being I grow married to my sister
because I never got in between them and their stuff.
It was all separate, you know, they dealt with their stuff.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
That's my sister, that's my brother.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
But the one thing, they loved each other till his
death in spite of the challenges, and he took a
sample as a family and that was the foundation that
he learned from his family, because a lot of our families,
you know, sort of disconnected and stuff. But we stay
together even now on the Ziggler side and my cousins
(28:37):
and stuff, and the guests. We're all still one family,
as well as the Night Children. They're all on Facebook together.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
But once again, if you're watching us and listen to
us online I'm focused radio, make sure you get a
copy of the book. Midnight Train from Georgia is available
anywhere you can give a book online. I want to
say to our special guests, not only have you really
gave us a great life history lesson, but I think
it's an important one to recognize the great minds and
(29:09):
the great arts of human beings who actually made a
difference in this world. So I want to say thank
you for your time and appreciate everything that you and
your family have contributed to not just culture but music
as a whole, because that's not easy to do that.
It's a lot of people today that wish stay and
have a legacy as rich as that. So just want
(29:32):
to say again thank you for your time to share
with us this amazing story.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Well, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!