July 18, 2024 • 19 mins
When we start a new role - either at the same organization in a different team or in a different team altogether, we've typically done a lot of work to land this new role. Just because you have been selected doesn't guarantee that everything will go smoothly. Coach Callan delves into why it is important to take stock of the knowledge, skills and will (KSW) in your backpack and be intentional about what thoughts, beliefs and behaviors you will take with you. She speaks about why it is also important to define what success looks like for you and how do you want to show up. Listen to understand how working with a coach to transition into a new role can help in assuring your fit in a new role.
Subscribe to ideamix - Coaching, Performance, and Wellness, and stay tuned for new episodes every other Thursday. On ideamix podcasts, we speak with innovators and coaches to help you build the life, business, and career you want. ideamix is the go-to destination for individuals to find their ideal coach. Check out our website at www.theideamix.com. For comments, questions, podcast guest ideas, or sponsorship inquiries, please email info@theideamix.com.
Subscribe to ideamix - Coaching, Performance, and Wellness, and stay tuned for new episodes every other Thursday. On ideamix podcasts, we speak with innovators and coaches to help you build the life, business, and career you want. ideamix is the go-to destination for individuals to find their ideal coach. Check out our website at www.theideamix.com. For comments, questions, podcast guest ideas, or sponsorship inquiries, please email info@theideamix.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to Idemics Performance and Wellness,where world leading coaches and scientists explain how
their research can help you achieve yourpersonal and professional goals. Foster hi It's
Sanjayanti, co founder and CEO ofIdemics Coaching. Coaching has played an important
role in my life. It's helpedme through my journey to become a powerful
(00:24):
leader, mother and wife. IDMXcoaches help you increase your self awareness,
improve your problem solving skills, andevolve your habits to achieve your goals,
all things I'm grateful to have learnedand done through my own coaching journey.
Our easy one minute assessment matches youwith an Idemics coach that best fits your
needs and values. Each Idemics coachis vetted and experienced. It helps clients
(00:46):
mad and achieve their wellness, professionaland business goals. If you or someone
you know could benefit from coaching,visit our website at www dotidemics dot com.
We also know that not everyone caninvest in coaching right now, and
that's why we provide free coaching inour Coach Shorts episodes. If you think
someone you know would benefit from it, please share a podcast with them.
(01:07):
Thanks for listening and see you nexttime. Welcome to Coaches to Note,
a podcast short designed to demystify coachingand help you our audience understand what coaching
it is and how it can helpyou. I'm your host, Jamie,
and today I'm very excited to behere with Coach Callen to discuss coaching,
transitioning to a new role and CoachCallen Is has been coaching for seven years.
(01:34):
She has a diverse career portfolio that'sfan's education, private banking, and
nonprofit fundraising before launching her own coachingcompany. Her experience, as you all
heard, as a professional pivoter makesan ideal partner for those seeking new adventures
or their next big role. Herclients are typically senior level women, VP
(01:57):
two C suite and mid sized fortunefive hundred, midside companies for five hundred
companies, professional services firms, andshe's coached people at companies such as Google,
Meta and a Centure. Welcome CoachCallen, and thank you for joining
us here today. I'm very excitedto be talking about what I think is
an interesting niche and expertise that youhave on new roles and tackling new role
(02:22):
How to do that? So whydon't we just start by sort of laying
out the framework and talking about whatdo we mean by a new role and
is that a new role in thesame organization, is that a new role
in a different organization, and whysomebody should consider this type of coaching totally.
(02:43):
Well, it's great to be here, and thanks so much for inviting
me to have this conversation. Ihave to say, early in my career
I didn't own the professional pivoter brandas much as I do now, but
I definitely think it is a somewhatof a superpower. So coaching at the
point of training position in going intoa new role is really a paradigm shift
for a lot of people. Tobe completely honest, I think we think
(03:06):
about coaching when we feel like something'swrong, or we think about coaching when
we feel like we need to geta promotion or there's a transition that's a
little bit more of a challenge,right, And yet when we're going into
a new role, whether we arestepping into a new organization or we're stepping
on to a new team, wehave such an opportunity to redefine for ourselves
(03:30):
what we want our leadership vision tolook like, what we want success to
look like what we want ourselves tobring to the table and what we want
to continue to develop in ourselves.And it's a real opportunity for either the
company who wants to invest in thisor the individual themselves to ask themselves like,
what's next for me in this nextlike two to five year season,
(03:52):
and how can I be really intentionalabout it? So clearly speaking, it's
for the person who is starting anew role, but it could also be
someone who is is moving into anew role within the same organization. And
is there a situation that you findthat people, maybe for lack of we're
going to world, say need itmore. Does it tend to be more
(04:12):
helpful when you're switching organizations or actuallydoes it tend to be helpful when you're
staying in the same organization, becausesometimes I think when your broader contact tend
to be the same, sometimes it'sharder to shift, right, absolutely percent,
I would say that most people engagein this, and it can be
most transformational when you are walking intoa new role in a new organization.
(04:34):
And there's a few reasons for that. I completely agree with you that as
we are moving into let's say you'rein same organization, but on a new
team, you can definitely feel likeyou're kind of carrying more with you from
your previous experience and the previous perceptionof you, which tends to actually be
what a lot of my clients wantto focus on in that situation is like,
(04:55):
how do I shake some old perceptionand build some new perception. How
do I like develop new relationships butalso maintain others That that tends to be
more of the like a transition onthe edge, if you will. But
most people engage in it when they'relike, Okay, gosh, I have
like what feels like a blank Googledoc in front of me. I have
this cursor blanking at me, andI'm really excited about this role, and
(05:16):
I'm really excited about going into thisorganization. I just want to be sure
I'm doing it with intention. Iwant to be sure that I'm doing it
with the fullest amount of self awareness, Like do I really know who I
am right now? Do I reallyknow what I bring to the table and
where I can continue to grow here? Excellent? I mean I love that
(05:38):
analogy of the sort of the blankGoogle document because I think it's something that
we can all relate to and Ithink sometimes, you know, when you
do have that blank Google document,it can be it's you know, it's
always it's always easier to edit thanit is to start from scratch. I
think in a lot of ways,right, you know, we're much better
(06:00):
at we're sort of maybe a revisinglanguage or revising thoughts than we are from
Like what are the thoughts? Whois it that I want to make?
You know? These big, bigquestions. So there's a lot I think
that when you're coaching into a newrole, and I mean, obviously these
are big questions. So can wefocus on like what are the top three
(06:26):
topics that you normally address or issuesthat you address or that you look at
when you're coaching somebody through this process? And how do you decide what to
work on? Yeah, So theanalogy that I like to use when thinking
about starting a new role is likewe're climbing a mountain and every one of
(06:47):
us has a backpack that we've beencarrying with us since basically the beginning of
our time, filled with our strengthsand our skills and our mindsets and our
past experiences. Are those managers wehad that defined what management looked like to
us, the relationships that we built, the expectations we put on ourselves,
all those performance reviews that we mayor may not have agreed with. We
(07:10):
have this backpack, We're going upto this mountain, and we really need
to take a moment to take thebackpack and like unpack it and look at
like, Okay, what does thismountain climb require? And when I sit
down with my clients who are like, I know I've got this backpack.
I know I need to unpack it, the first question that I asked them
is, well, what's this mountainthat we're climbing? Anyway? Like,
(07:30):
what is the role? What isyour vision for success in this role?
And the honest answer for most peopleis I know about eighty percent of the
vision, but I'm not one hundredpercent sure because I haven't started yet.
I just don't know, like Ithink I'm going to this point. But
we'll figure it out. But inhaving the first initial picture of that vision,
we then take their backpack and say, Okay, what's going to work
(07:53):
for you? What's not? AndI love to use a framework that helps
me as their coach, to organizemy brain, helps my client to organize
their brain. It's called ks.W K stands for knowledge. That's the
stuff you need to know, right, that's the who makes this decision?
How do I file my expenses?Where is this in the filing base?
(08:15):
Like all the knowledge s is skills? So what are the skills that I
have or that I don't have?What do I need to polish? What
do I need to refine? Andthen W is will or mindset or belief?
And what we first do is wekind of say, Okay, we
know what the vision is for whereyou're going to go, and we know
where you are. Now what doyou think you need to look at and
(08:35):
interrogate in the knowledge, skill,and will department in order to be successful?
And that helps us to define theactual key topics. That said,
every person is unique, of course, but there are some trends on what
we end up talking about. Yeah, the first and foremost, this is
a huge one for folks I'm talkingwith right now, is just how do
I want to show up? Likekind of on the first day, but
(08:58):
just in general, like what isboth authentic to me but also necessary in
this particular organization because every organization isdifferent. You know, how do I
want to present myself? Because Ithink we're all aware to some degree that
we teach people how to treat usby how we act, right, So
(09:20):
how do I kind of show upin that space to engender credibility and confidence
and openness to learning and all ofthose great things that I want to be
The second really popular topic is aboutsetting boundaries. So you read my bio
before. I work with some prettyhigh achieving people. They have really high
standards for themselves, and a lotof them have a habit of going into
(09:43):
a new role and just letting itconsume them, you know, doing the
sixteen seventeen hour days. And that'scompletely understandable. I've done it myself too,
because there's so much coming at you. But it is also such a
hard habit to break once you kindof feel like you're onboarded, you know
what's happening. So they really wereally talk about like what our boundaries and
(10:05):
what are you how are you goingto kind of have this career in this
ambition, work within the biggest pictureof your life and your priorities, and
you know, be sure that youcan show up in the way you want
to in those early months, showingyou're committed and care while also being measured.
And then the third one that comesup a lot is just like letting
(10:26):
go of what's not going to serveyou in this role from your past experience.
And this can be as you knowwill based if you will, as
perhaps you relate to managers in aspecific way because of managers you used to
have, or perhaps you expect thereto be a culture that there isn't in
this organization. I can give youa really quick story when I went from
(10:48):
working on the desk at the bankat JP Morgan to working in a nonprofit
environment. I had some habits inplace that were pretty simple to me,
like we kind of always JPM work, and we kind of always let each
other know where we were at alltimes during the trading day because that was
important information like are you at lunchor you just grabbing coffee? Can you
be here to execute a trade?Can you not? And so I had
(11:09):
this habit when I went in toteach for America of being like, hey,
team, I'm going to get lunch, Hey team, I'm going to
pick up copies. And finally mymanager sat me down and was like,
Calens, really need you to stop. You don't need to do that.
We don't need to know, like, and it was just a small and
completely harm harmless example of you canbring one culture of an organization into another
(11:31):
without even knowing it. So Ihave a lot of conversations with clients who
are like, Okay, let mejust get clear that like, what got
me here is not necessarily going toget me there, and I need to
just figure out what this experience is. That's a very that last point is
very interesting. I think it's reallyhard for people to imagine that they need
(11:56):
maybe to develop new habits, yeah, order to be successful and or to
achieve their vision of success We'll say, and whatever that looks like for their
company for them, you know.And we often talk about it in terms
of promotions, right, Once youget a promotion to a manager, for
example, you really you know,you have the hard skills but maybe not
(12:20):
the soft skills to succeed as amanager, for example. But we don't
actually think about that a lot interms of just doing a new role,
right, And I think it probablycomes from the legacy of thinking about a
career as a linear pathway a littlebit. But also are sort of how
(12:41):
humans are just resistant to or butjust the habitual creatures, right, absolutely,
Well, it's really hard to change. Well, it's also a paradigm
of you go through an extensive interviewprocess and you get the job, and
there's this understandable belief will come acrossthe whole team that this is like a
(13:03):
perfect fit. And so you know, you're like, okay, so I'll
move in here and like I'm greatand they're great and we're this great jigsaw
puzzle match and all of that canbe true. But again, you still
got your backpatch. Just you gotyour back match, right. We spend
so much time and energy and companiesspend so much money on the interview process,
(13:26):
and we get so excited that thisis that we maybe feel like everything
should be okay. And that's somethingI really want to emphasize here too,
is I think some people feel insecureor maybe a little bit awkward about engaging
in coaching at this point in theircareer because they're like, gosh, shouldn't
shouldn't this them hiring me have beenthe key indicator that everything is going to
be fine, And it's really like, yeah, sure it is. And
(13:50):
also, this is a massive transition, like it's just it just is what
it is. It's the new peopleit's new ways of working. And what
I'm hoping that most people find isthat they've taken a role that follows the
rule of thirds. I don't knowif you follow like Olympic Olympic athletes,
but they have this idea of therule of thirds, like a third of
(14:11):
your training should be really comfortable,a third you feel like you should excel
at, and a third should beterrifying. It should just be kind of
tough, right, Like I hopethat's true for people who've taken new roles.
So like you know, being havingcoaching in this transition, but also
like talking about what you're going todo when there is that stretch moment is
really helpful, and how you canmanage that stress moment again by for example,
(14:37):
setting those boundaries. That's beautify.I love the analogy and the way
that you know you can frame itwhen you compare it to for example,
Hanna olympian who you know is atthe top of their game is going to
train. And by the way,all Olympians have coaches, right they all
do, they all need them?Yeah. I think a great segway though
(15:01):
into our next question, which isyou know, if I am an individual,
think you know, chopping around fora new role. At what point
do you think it's best to engagea coach to help me with this transition?
Do you know? Is it beforeI start? Is it after I
start? You know, get mysea legs? When do you think is
(15:24):
the best time? I think thisis one of those coaching engagements that has
a bit of a sliding scale ofcadence before, like as you engage with
it. So I have seen probablythe most successful engagements start with a few
weeks before the person walks into theirnew role, because that way we can
(15:45):
have some of those level setting conversationsabout how do I authentically represent myself but
also meet the organization where it is, how do I kind of interrogate a
little bit of what's in that backpack? But that's much more of a kind
of explore or conversation. It's alittle bit like we think we know what
we know, but we don't reallyknow. My firm belief is that all
(16:07):
onboarding periods are actually one year.They are not four weeks, they're not
three months, they're not even sixmonths. It's one year because in most
jobs, one year is a fullcycle of work, right. I wouldn't
suggest necessarily working with a coach fora year. I think you can get
a lot done in phasing over asix month period, And like I said,
maybe the first couple of meetings areyou know, one or two before
(16:30):
you get started, and then youmeet every two to three weeks for a
six month period. That early ninetydays is going to be more about just
understanding everything around you and kind ofgetting that twenty percent more of the vision
that I talked about before, likereally seeing the summit of the mountain for
what it is. And then thenext phase it's going to be like,
(16:51):
Okay, well how do I actin that? How do I show up
in that? And as by theway, I'm not operating in a vacuum.
As I interact with other people,as I try to get things done,
and as I try to influence change, what knowledge, skill and will
challenges are coming up that we canaddress. So it could be you know,
one hour long sessions for a sixto seven month period and really help
(17:14):
move the needle fairly quickly at atime where I think a lot of us
feel excited and slightly overwhelmed by everythinggoing on and also a little bit vulnerable.
Sometimes companies are like why should wehire a coach if we have really
good managers who will work really hardto build rapport and psychological safety and all
those things. And my answer inthis particular moment of a new role is
(17:38):
because trust takes time to build andpeople are coming. You could have all
the best practices in place, andyour managers could be absolutely phenomenal, and
still that manager and that person needto get used to each other, and
so having a coach who's kind ofthere on the sidelines with the person really
helps to move them forward fast.Yeah, that's a very good, good
(18:00):
sort of idea to wrap up on. I mean, I would say that
one of the things that we hearoften at idea mix is that people really
appreciate having the outside perspective, rightbecause, you know, no matter how
good your managers are, no nomatter how sort of they're good, they're
people skills, there's always this perceptionthat there's a level of bias that enters
(18:22):
into whatever they're doing and how they'rebehaving because they're motivated for a certain you
know, they've got skin in thegame, you know, and a coaches
skin in the game is to helpyou with whatever that goal or focus is.
So coming in as an outsider ishelpful for perspective, and I think
(18:42):
it's just helpful, you know alot of times with big transitions to have
somebody to talk to absolutely right,absolutely who, by the way, is
not like mom or partners or sisterbecause you talk about skin in the game.
Yes, they know their biases too, you know exactly exactly. It
really is about that level of independence. Well, Calin, I want to
(19:06):
thank you today for this conversation.This has been very insightful and to our
audience. If you would like towork with coach Kallen or one of our
other qualified coaches, please visit usas theidmix dot com and thank you to
everybody for listening. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe wherever you listen and leave
us a review. Find your idealcoach at www dot VIIDMX dot com.
(19:32):
Special thanks to our producer Martin Maluskiand singer songwriter Doug Allen.
Welcome to Idemics Performance and Wellness,where world leading coaches and scientists explain how
their research can help you achieve yourpersonal and professional goals. Foster hi It's
Sanjayanti, co founder and CEO ofIdemics Coaching. Coaching has played an important
role in my life. It's helpedme through my journey to become a powerful
(00:24):
leader, mother and wife. IDMXcoaches help you increase your self awareness,
improve your problem solving skills, andevolve your habits to achieve your goals,
all things I'm grateful to have learnedand done through my own coaching journey.
Our easy one minute assessment matches youwith an Idemics coach that best fits your
needs and values. Each Idemics coachis vetted and experienced. It helps clients
(00:46):
mad and achieve their wellness, professionaland business goals. If you or someone
you know could benefit from coaching,visit our website at www dotidemics dot com.
We also know that not everyone caninvest in coaching right now, and
that's why we provide free coaching inour Coach Shorts episodes. If you think
someone you know would benefit from it, please share a podcast with them.
(01:07):
Thanks for listening and see you nexttime. Welcome to Coaches to Note,
a podcast short designed to demystify coachingand help you our audience understand what coaching
it is and how it can helpyou. I'm your host, Jamie,
and today I'm very excited to behere with Coach Callen to discuss coaching,
transitioning to a new role and CoachCallen Is has been coaching for seven years.
(01:34):
She has a diverse career portfolio that'sfan's education, private banking, and
nonprofit fundraising before launching her own coachingcompany. Her experience, as you all
heard, as a professional pivoter makesan ideal partner for those seeking new adventures
or their next big role. Herclients are typically senior level women, VP
(01:57):
two C suite and mid sized fortunefive hundred, midside companies for five hundred
companies, professional services firms, andshe's coached people at companies such as Google,
Meta and a Centure. Welcome CoachCallen, and thank you for joining
us here today. I'm very excitedto be talking about what I think is
an interesting niche and expertise that youhave on new roles and tackling new role
(02:22):
How to do that? So whydon't we just start by sort of laying
out the framework and talking about whatdo we mean by a new role and
is that a new role in thesame organization, is that a new role
in a different organization, and whysomebody should consider this type of coaching totally.
(02:43):
Well, it's great to be here, and thanks so much for inviting
me to have this conversation. Ihave to say, early in my career
I didn't own the professional pivoter brandas much as I do now, but
I definitely think it is a somewhatof a superpower. So coaching at the
point of training position in going intoa new role is really a paradigm shift
for a lot of people. Tobe completely honest, I think we think
(03:06):
about coaching when we feel like something'swrong, or we think about coaching when
we feel like we need to geta promotion or there's a transition that's a
little bit more of a challenge,right, And yet when we're going into
a new role, whether we arestepping into a new organization or we're stepping
on to a new team, wehave such an opportunity to redefine for ourselves
(03:30):
what we want our leadership vision tolook like, what we want success to
look like what we want ourselves tobring to the table and what we want
to continue to develop in ourselves.And it's a real opportunity for either the
company who wants to invest in thisor the individual themselves to ask themselves like,
what's next for me in this nextlike two to five year season,
(03:52):
and how can I be really intentionalabout it? So clearly speaking, it's
for the person who is starting anew role, but it could also be
someone who is is moving into anew role within the same organization. And
is there a situation that you findthat people, maybe for lack of we're
going to world, say need itmore. Does it tend to be more
(04:12):
helpful when you're switching organizations or actuallydoes it tend to be helpful when you're
staying in the same organization, becausesometimes I think when your broader contact tend
to be the same, sometimes it'sharder to shift, right, absolutely percent,
I would say that most people engagein this, and it can be
most transformational when you are walking intoa new role in a new organization.
(04:34):
And there's a few reasons for that. I completely agree with you that as
we are moving into let's say you'rein same organization, but on a new
team, you can definitely feel likeyou're kind of carrying more with you from
your previous experience and the previous perceptionof you, which tends to actually be
what a lot of my clients wantto focus on in that situation is like,
(04:55):
how do I shake some old perceptionand build some new perception. How
do I like develop new relationships butalso maintain others That that tends to be
more of the like a transition onthe edge, if you will. But
most people engage in it when they'relike, Okay, gosh, I have
like what feels like a blank Googledoc in front of me. I have
this cursor blanking at me, andI'm really excited about this role, and
(05:16):
I'm really excited about going into thisorganization. I just want to be sure
I'm doing it with intention. Iwant to be sure that I'm doing it
with the fullest amount of self awareness, Like do I really know who I
am right now? Do I reallyknow what I bring to the table and
where I can continue to grow here? Excellent? I mean I love that
(05:38):
analogy of the sort of the blankGoogle document because I think it's something that
we can all relate to and Ithink sometimes, you know, when you
do have that blank Google document,it can be it's you know, it's
always it's always easier to edit thanit is to start from scratch. I
think in a lot of ways,right, you know, we're much better
(06:00):
at we're sort of maybe a revisinglanguage or revising thoughts than we are from
Like what are the thoughts? Whois it that I want to make?
You know? These big, bigquestions. So there's a lot I think
that when you're coaching into a newrole, and I mean, obviously these
are big questions. So can wefocus on like what are the top three
(06:26):
topics that you normally address or issuesthat you address or that you look at
when you're coaching somebody through this process? And how do you decide what to
work on? Yeah, So theanalogy that I like to use when thinking
about starting a new role is likewe're climbing a mountain and every one of
(06:47):
us has a backpack that we've beencarrying with us since basically the beginning of
our time, filled with our strengthsand our skills and our mindsets and our
past experiences. Are those managers wehad that defined what management looked like to
us, the relationships that we built, the expectations we put on ourselves,
all those performance reviews that we mayor may not have agreed with. We
(07:10):
have this backpack, We're going upto this mountain, and we really need
to take a moment to take thebackpack and like unpack it and look at
like, Okay, what does thismountain climb require? And when I sit
down with my clients who are like, I know I've got this backpack.
I know I need to unpack it, the first question that I asked them
is, well, what's this mountainthat we're climbing? Anyway? Like,
(07:30):
what is the role? What isyour vision for success in this role?
And the honest answer for most peopleis I know about eighty percent of the
vision, but I'm not one hundredpercent sure because I haven't started yet.
I just don't know, like Ithink I'm going to this point. But
we'll figure it out. But inhaving the first initial picture of that vision,
we then take their backpack and say, Okay, what's going to work
(07:53):
for you? What's not? AndI love to use a framework that helps
me as their coach, to organizemy brain, helps my client to organize
their brain. It's called ks.W K stands for knowledge. That's the
stuff you need to know, right, that's the who makes this decision?
How do I file my expenses?Where is this in the filing base?
(08:15):
Like all the knowledge s is skills? So what are the skills that I
have or that I don't have?What do I need to polish? What
do I need to refine? Andthen W is will or mindset or belief?
And what we first do is wekind of say, Okay, we
know what the vision is for whereyou're going to go, and we know
where you are. Now what doyou think you need to look at and
(08:35):
interrogate in the knowledge, skill,and will department in order to be successful?
And that helps us to define theactual key topics. That said,
every person is unique, of course, but there are some trends on what
we end up talking about. Yeah, the first and foremost, this is
a huge one for folks I'm talkingwith right now, is just how do
I want to show up? Likekind of on the first day, but
(08:58):
just in general, like what isboth authentic to me but also necessary in
this particular organization because every organization isdifferent. You know, how do I
want to present myself? Because Ithink we're all aware to some degree that
we teach people how to treat usby how we act, right, So
(09:20):
how do I kind of show upin that space to engender credibility and confidence
and openness to learning and all ofthose great things that I want to be
The second really popular topic is aboutsetting boundaries. So you read my bio
before. I work with some prettyhigh achieving people. They have really high
standards for themselves, and a lotof them have a habit of going into
(09:43):
a new role and just letting itconsume them, you know, doing the
sixteen seventeen hour days. And that'scompletely understandable. I've done it myself too,
because there's so much coming at you. But it is also such a
hard habit to break once you kindof feel like you're onboarded, you know
what's happening. So they really wereally talk about like what our boundaries and
(10:05):
what are you how are you goingto kind of have this career in this
ambition, work within the biggest pictureof your life and your priorities, and
you know, be sure that youcan show up in the way you want
to in those early months, showingyou're committed and care while also being measured.
And then the third one that comesup a lot is just like letting
(10:26):
go of what's not going to serveyou in this role from your past experience.
And this can be as you knowwill based if you will, as
perhaps you relate to managers in aspecific way because of managers you used to
have, or perhaps you expect thereto be a culture that there isn't in
this organization. I can give youa really quick story when I went from
(10:48):
working on the desk at the bankat JP Morgan to working in a nonprofit
environment. I had some habits inplace that were pretty simple to me,
like we kind of always JPM work, and we kind of always let each
other know where we were at alltimes during the trading day because that was
important information like are you at lunchor you just grabbing coffee? Can you
be here to execute a trade?Can you not? And so I had
(11:09):
this habit when I went in toteach for America of being like, hey,
team, I'm going to get lunch, Hey team, I'm going to
pick up copies. And finally mymanager sat me down and was like,
Calens, really need you to stop. You don't need to do that.
We don't need to know, like, and it was just a small and
completely harm harmless example of you canbring one culture of an organization into another
(11:31):
without even knowing it. So Ihave a lot of conversations with clients who
are like, Okay, let mejust get clear that like, what got
me here is not necessarily going toget me there, and I need to
just figure out what this experience is. That's a very that last point is
very interesting. I think it's reallyhard for people to imagine that they need
(11:56):
maybe to develop new habits, yeah, order to be successful and or to
achieve their vision of success We'll say, and whatever that looks like for their
company for them, you know.And we often talk about it in terms
of promotions, right, Once youget a promotion to a manager, for
example, you really you know,you have the hard skills but maybe not
(12:20):
the soft skills to succeed as amanager, for example. But we don't
actually think about that a lot interms of just doing a new role,
right, And I think it probablycomes from the legacy of thinking about a
career as a linear pathway a littlebit. But also are sort of how
(12:41):
humans are just resistant to or butjust the habitual creatures, right, absolutely,
Well, it's really hard to change. Well, it's also a paradigm
of you go through an extensive interviewprocess and you get the job, and
there's this understandable belief will come acrossthe whole team that this is like a
(13:03):
perfect fit. And so you know, you're like, okay, so I'll
move in here and like I'm greatand they're great and we're this great jigsaw
puzzle match and all of that canbe true. But again, you still
got your backpatch. Just you gotyour back match, right. We spend
so much time and energy and companiesspend so much money on the interview process,
(13:26):
and we get so excited that thisis that we maybe feel like everything
should be okay. And that's somethingI really want to emphasize here too,
is I think some people feel insecureor maybe a little bit awkward about engaging
in coaching at this point in theircareer because they're like, gosh, shouldn't
shouldn't this them hiring me have beenthe key indicator that everything is going to
be fine, And it's really like, yeah, sure it is. And
(13:50):
also, this is a massive transition, like it's just it just is what
it is. It's the new peopleit's new ways of working. And what
I'm hoping that most people find isthat they've taken a role that follows the
rule of thirds. I don't knowif you follow like Olympic Olympic athletes,
but they have this idea of therule of thirds, like a third of
(14:11):
your training should be really comfortable,a third you feel like you should excel
at, and a third should beterrifying. It should just be kind of
tough, right, Like I hopethat's true for people who've taken new roles.
So like you know, being havingcoaching in this transition, but also
like talking about what you're going todo when there is that stretch moment is
really helpful, and how you canmanage that stress moment again by for example,
(14:37):
setting those boundaries. That's beautify.I love the analogy and the way
that you know you can frame itwhen you compare it to for example,
Hanna olympian who you know is atthe top of their game is going to
train. And by the way,all Olympians have coaches, right they all
do, they all need them?Yeah. I think a great segway though
(15:01):
into our next question, which isyou know, if I am an individual,
think you know, chopping around fora new role. At what point
do you think it's best to engagea coach to help me with this transition?
Do you know? Is it beforeI start? Is it after I
start? You know, get mysea legs? When do you think is
(15:24):
the best time? I think thisis one of those coaching engagements that has
a bit of a sliding scale ofcadence before, like as you engage with
it. So I have seen probablythe most successful engagements start with a few
weeks before the person walks into theirnew role, because that way we can
(15:45):
have some of those level setting conversationsabout how do I authentically represent myself but
also meet the organization where it is, how do I kind of interrogate a
little bit of what's in that backpack? But that's much more of a kind
of explore or conversation. It's alittle bit like we think we know what
we know, but we don't reallyknow. My firm belief is that all
(16:07):
onboarding periods are actually one year.They are not four weeks, they're not
three months, they're not even sixmonths. It's one year because in most
jobs, one year is a fullcycle of work, right. I wouldn't
suggest necessarily working with a coach fora year. I think you can get
a lot done in phasing over asix month period, And like I said,
maybe the first couple of meetings areyou know, one or two before
(16:30):
you get started, and then youmeet every two to three weeks for a
six month period. That early ninetydays is going to be more about just
understanding everything around you and kind ofgetting that twenty percent more of the vision
that I talked about before, likereally seeing the summit of the mountain for
what it is. And then thenext phase it's going to be like,
(16:51):
Okay, well how do I actin that? How do I show up
in that? And as by theway, I'm not operating in a vacuum.
As I interact with other people,as I try to get things done,
and as I try to influence change, what knowledge, skill and will
challenges are coming up that we canaddress. So it could be you know,
one hour long sessions for a sixto seven month period and really help
(17:14):
move the needle fairly quickly at atime where I think a lot of us
feel excited and slightly overwhelmed by everythinggoing on and also a little bit vulnerable.
Sometimes companies are like why should wehire a coach if we have really
good managers who will work really hardto build rapport and psychological safety and all
those things. And my answer inthis particular moment of a new role is
(17:38):
because trust takes time to build andpeople are coming. You could have all
the best practices in place, andyour managers could be absolutely phenomenal, and
still that manager and that person needto get used to each other, and
so having a coach who's kind ofthere on the sidelines with the person really
helps to move them forward fast.Yeah, that's a very good, good
(18:00):
sort of idea to wrap up on. I mean, I would say that
one of the things that we hearoften at idea mix is that people really
appreciate having the outside perspective, rightbecause, you know, no matter how
good your managers are, no nomatter how sort of they're good, they're
people skills, there's always this perceptionthat there's a level of bias that enters
(18:22):
into whatever they're doing and how they'rebehaving because they're motivated for a certain you
know, they've got skin in thegame, you know, and a coaches
skin in the game is to helpyou with whatever that goal or focus is.
So coming in as an outsider ishelpful for perspective, and I think
(18:42):
it's just helpful, you know alot of times with big transitions to have
somebody to talk to absolutely right,absolutely who, by the way, is
not like mom or partners or sisterbecause you talk about skin in the game.
Yes, they know their biases too, you know exactly exactly. It
really is about that level of independence. Well, Calin, I want to
(19:06):
thank you today for this conversation.This has been very insightful and to our
audience. If you would like towork with coach Kallen or one of our
other qualified coaches, please visit usas theidmix dot com and thank you to
everybody for listening. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe wherever you listen and leave
us a review. Find your idealcoach at www dot VIIDMX dot com.
(19:32):
Special thanks to our producer Martin Maluskiand singer songwriter Doug Allen.
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