April 25, 2024 • 18 mins
Coach Meredith explains how nine interconnected personality types help us understand the depth of what really motivates people, how they operate, their basic fears, desires, and how they show up both individually as leaders and then collectively as executives. Coach Meredith talks about why this tool is the most powerful model for developing leaders and teams. Tune in today to learn how the Enneagram can help you understand who you are and how you can develop in both your personal and professional life.
Subscribe to ideamix - Coaching, Performance, and Wellness, and stay tuned for new episodes every other Thursday. On ideamix podcasts, we speak with innovators and coaches to help you build the life, business, and career you want. ideamix is the go-to destination for individuals to find their ideal coach. Check out our website at www.theideamix.com. For comments, questions, podcast guest ideas, or sponsorship inquiries, please email info@theideamix.com.
Subscribe to ideamix - Coaching, Performance, and Wellness, and stay tuned for new episodes every other Thursday. On ideamix podcasts, we speak with innovators and coaches to help you build the life, business, and career you want. ideamix is the go-to destination for individuals to find their ideal coach. Check out our website at www.theideamix.com. For comments, questions, podcast guest ideas, or sponsorship inquiries, please email info@theideamix.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to Idemics Performance and Wellness,where world leading coaches and scientists explain how
their research can help you achieve yourpersonal and professional goals. Foster hi It's
Sanjayanti, co founder and CEO ofIdemics Coaching. Coaching has played an important
role in my life. It's helpedme through my journey to become a powerful
(00:24):
leader, mother and wife. IDMXcoaches help you increase your self awareness,
improve your problem solving skills, andevolve your habits to achieve your goals,
all things I'm grateful to have learnedand done through my own coaching journey.
Our easy one minute assessment matches youwith an Idemics coach that best fits your
needs and values. Each Idemics coachis vetted and experienced. It helps clients
(00:46):
mad and achieve their wellness, professionaland business goals. If you or someone
you know could benefit from coaching,visit our website at www dotidemics dot com.
We also know that not everyone caninvest in coaching right now, and
that's what we provide free coaching inour Coach Shorts episodes. If you think
someone you know would benefit from it, please share our podcast with them.
(01:07):
Thanks for listening and see you nexttime. Welcome to Coaches to Know,
a podcast short designed to demystified coachingand help you our audience understand what coaching
is and how it can help you. I'm your host, Jamie, and
today I have the pleasure of beinghere with Coach Meredith to discuss the assessment
(01:27):
Enneagram. Coach Meredith has been coachingfor fourteen years and she has certified in
the Enneagram assessment. Before coaching,she worked for fifteen years and management consulting
at Bain. She has authored twobooks focused on career development and living and
Leading with Intention. She holds anMBA from Stanford and a degree in the
(01:51):
Religious Studies from Yale, and herclients are executives at investment firms and those
at larger corporations. So thank youCoach Meredith for being here with us today.
Thanks Jamie. We're just going toget right into it as this is
a short podcast and talk about enniogramand so why don't we start with the
(02:12):
very basic question of what is theAnagram assessment and what is it based on?
I love starting at the beginning.So the enneagram is both tests and
subsequently a model of the human psychethat lays out nine interconnected personality types which
really articulate the depth of what motivatespeople, how they operate their basic fears,
(02:38):
desires, and how they show upboth individuals leaders and then collectively as
executives. Great, and do youwant to delve into a little bit further
of sort of the origins of theaniogram assessment and what sort of how it
came about. Yeah, I lovetalking about where any am came from because
(02:59):
it's really different from some of theother personality assessments. So you know,
I come, as you mentioned,from a very analytical bane background, and
the first assessments that I was certifiedin and that I got to know and
started using with leaders were MBTI andEQI Strengths Finder and things which were robustly
statistically proven from a psychometric perspective.And then it was only later in my
(03:23):
career, probably a decade into coaching, that I came upon amenogram, and
I was originally skeptical because it isnot like those psychometrically proven and statistically robust,
but instead it's a model that comesfrom the wisdom traditions that has kind
of like reflections of showing up inhistory in different places. And then was
(03:44):
actually kind of codified into its currentformat in the nineteen fifties and then came
into the work of leadership in theHuman Potential movement in the nineteen seventies,
and so I found it very curiousand interesting because because it doesn't come from
that scientific background, and at thesame time, I find it to be
probably the most powerful model for workingwith leaders and leadership teams that I've seen.
(04:10):
And the way that it works isthat they are, like I said,
nine different personality types, which areall focused around how do you think
about the depths of someone operating Sothere's usually a basic fear and a basic
desire that each type is operating with. The types are numbered one through nine.
They also have colloquial names that weput against them. They're given numbers
(04:34):
instead of names generally because the nameshave a lot of power and names have
a lot of association with them,but help the types to be neutral because
there's not a good type. There'snot a bad type. There are just
different types in different excuse me,different ways that we kind of operate and
move through the world. And whatenneagram does is help us see what's going
(04:55):
on at the depths of our personalityand what's going on at the depths of
human interactions. Thank you, Thankyou for that. Just a follow up
question, you know you made theconduct that you that you find Nyagraham to
be one of the most powerful assessmentsfor leaders. Why don't we talk a
little bit about what are the bestuse cases for any A Graham? When
do you recommend leaders teams organizations thinkabout using aniogram and is it is it
(05:21):
applicable to individuals as well? Yeah, so the two best use cases are
individual leadership development and then collective teammates. So from an individual leadership development perspective,
it helps individual The reason why Ilike it is because it's multi dimensional.
So a lot of assessments MBTI,for example, gives you a type
of I'm an E NTP or I'man I I N T J, and
(05:46):
they feel a little static in termsof who you are, and that's how
you operate. The thing about theenneagram is that it is developmental, so
you might see that your type,for example, is a type three,
which is what I am, whichis someone who's very focused on achieving,
performing looking good. Often the basicfear of a three is being worthless or
(06:09):
not respected. The basic desire ofA three is to feel valuable, to
be respected, to have other peoplerespect and acknowledge them, to seek approval.
And so there's something about deeply understandingthat which helps me then understand the
path of how do I develop throughthose things and how do I work through
the things that aren't underneath a lotof my behaviors at a more subterranean level
(06:31):
so that I can evolve in thatdirection. And so in the enneagram there
are not only nine types, butthere's the directionality of my type of A
three, which through growth tends tostart to look more like a nine,
or alternatively, lots of the othertypes that grow in the direction of another
type when they start down their developmentalpath. And so what I appreciate about
(06:55):
it from an individual leadership perspective isthat dimensionality, the direction, and the
sense of development and a little bitof the path where you could go.
That is that's enlightened through thinking aboutan any Gram assessment. Now, the
second use case to your question isusing it in executive teams. And where
I see it is most useful inexecutive teams is where it's actually laying bare
(07:18):
the underlying behavior that again, theunderlying motivations that again explain a lot of
behavior. So I often use anyGram assessments for people to understand themselves and
then talk about the dynamics that arehappening in a leadership team around consistent stressors,
consistent triggers, consistent patterns of behavior, and to be able to go
(07:38):
to the thing beneath the thing.So it's not that you're always you're always
over extending yourself, but it's actuallythat you're a type two, which is
someone who's a helper, a giver, someone who really wants to feel loved
and feel like they're useful to people. And so now we're seeing actually the
way that that person's always over extendingthemselves or always saying yes to other people
(07:59):
in a deeper way and the reasonswhy they're doing that instead of just trying
to stay at the superficial layer ofthe behaviors that we're observing on the executive
team. Cool. That's great,Thank you for explaining that. I did
have a follow up question regarding sortof is there so you laid out for
(08:24):
us the sort of best case scenariosor best uses for that, and I
just want to understand a little moredeeply you said, you know, I'm
a three, but I can goand develop to a nine. Is that
like you're choosing to develop to nineand you would work with the coach to
help you change your behavior to developto a nine. Or it's like I'm
(08:46):
a three and naturally threes will developinto like a nine personality. Yeah,
So as you think through the lensof enneagram, each type one through nine
has unhealthy manifestations of that type,and then the healthy manifestations of that type
to be kind of like reconciled,integrated, healthier expressions of that So take
(09:11):
a nine, for example, anine is someone who's known as a peacemaker
or a mediator. They're often theone who's seeking harmony instead of tolerating things
kind of going poorly. Now,unhealthy type of that version would be someone
who might numb out or avoid theconflict, right. A healthier type of
(09:35):
a nine might be someone who doesn'tnumb out or disengage, but engages in
a way that helps actually the groupcome to harmony. So, first of
all, you think of the unhealthyto healthy manifestations of that type, which
coaching, obviously other developmental work cancan help support that evolution. But as
you think about then even evolving beyondthat, right, A nine, for
(09:56):
example, will start to take onsome of the characteristics some of the characteristics
of a three. So instead ofbeing kind of exclusively harmony seeking, they'll
also try and take the group toexcellence as they start to take on some
of the beneficial aspects of the typesthat they grow into. So there is
(10:18):
a whole developmental path kind of withinthe type and then beyond the type,
which mirrors the path in a lotof cases of human evolution, becoming more
integrated, becoming more whole, becominga healthier version of what you are,
starting to mitigate some of the downsidesof your strengths, and really integrating who
you are. I love that ideabecause it really I think hones in on
(10:43):
this. You know, well,I feel like we humans tend to think
of personality as a fixed thing.But something like this that integrates the different
personality and talks about growth around apersonality, whether it's unhealthy or healthy.
Is this idea that you actually havethe capability to weigh into any probably area
(11:05):
of personality that you would want togrow into. You know, it's just
matching that that personality trait to Idon't know if we want to prefer to
demonstrates to that moment, right,But I like the flexibility. Rather than
thinking of personality as the stagnant thing, it's more it's a dynamic thing.
(11:26):
Yeah, I really would fight againstthe binary definitions of care right that it's
a paradox which seems to be resolved. You both at the same time are
who you are and have a certainset of fears, beliefs, mindset,
orientation, and underlying psyche which youhave, you have had, and which
(11:46):
you will continue to have. Andat the same time you can also evolve
and develop beyond that and in adifferent way. Right, So it is
both static and developmental. It isboth that you are who you always are
and you will be that, andyou can be a different, integrated version
of a human, leader, ofan executive. And so it seems like
(12:07):
there's this binary choice between is ecstaticor do you get to completely choose what
you are? And the answer iswell, like, that's kind of a
false binary and you both are whoyou always have been and there's a path
to being different through that. Yeah, And that is one of the things
that I do I really love.But anagram because in all of this conversation.
(12:30):
It just introduces depth. It introducesdepth and development and opportunity for being
ourselves and being different. Yeah.Yeah, yeah, that's great. Are
there any shortcomings to using the aneagram? Like, are there situations where you
wouldn't use it? Yeah? Sothey're not necessarily situations in which I wouldn't
(12:52):
use it. But I think thething that I said early on is the
major reason why I see aneagram notlanding within a system is that if a
system is highly analytical and not openminded to taking the test and seeing the
value and kind of like proving thatfor themselves, right, it's not anyagram
is not something that I can giveyou the linear logical argument as to why
(13:13):
this is the best assessment for you, and I have all the data to
prove why this is the end all, be all for assessments, which is
why I always orient people to anexperimental, iterative test and learn approach of
take the ennagram, see what yourtext is, have a typing conversation with
a coach, figure out whether thatresonates with you, Notice what it feels
like to look at the world throughthat lens, and then figure out whether
(13:35):
that's useful to you and actually drivinginsights proportionately. When I work with leaders,
when I work with executive teams,they find deep insight coming out of
it. But it is something thatyou have to experience for yourself, and
you have to be willing to tryout, because I'm not going to be
able to convince you that it isthe assessment that you should use instead of
(13:56):
another assessment. So systems that arehighly analytical or exclusively data driven and not
open to other sources of wisdom,I wouldn't suggest using it because it's too
much of an uphill battle to embedthat into a culture. But if there's
a certain open mindedness for wisdom comingfrom other places and sources, then it's
a It's a great and very meaningfultool to be using. I love that.
(14:18):
I love that. I mean,basically, the minimal criteria is an
openness seeing what this can tell youand what is the what is the nyogram
sort of what's the nuts and both? What's is it a test? You
know? How many questions are onit? How long does it take an
individual to take? Yeah, sothere's there's there's a number of tests which
(14:39):
will test for any agram. They'reusually about twenty eight to forty minutes long
a series of questions which are alllooking to identify what's actually going on underneath
your behaviors. Like I said,when you get that output from the Enneagram
test, it's usually worth having aconversation with a coach because the tests tend
to have, depending on test itself, sixty to eighty percent fidelity and actually
(15:03):
accurately typing you. And that's inpart because there's a lot of interactivity between
the types. So you could belike I am I am. I am
primarily a type three. Each typealso has a wing, which is a
slight influence from one of the sides. So I'm a three and I'm a
with a wing four, so Ihave a little bit of four influence on
and threes evolve to sixes, right, and they go to nines in stress.
(15:26):
So you could look at look atmy test results and say, oh,
I see a three and a sixand a nine and a four,
and there's some differentiation that needs tohappen, usually in usually in a coaching
conversation with someone who knows the nagramto say, how do we make sense
of this and how do we actuallyunderstand what you're showing up as and in
what context. But yeah, it'sa test. And then in addition to
(15:50):
the test, there's the depth ofthe model. So the model has directions
of stress and directions of growth thatyou grow in. It has relationships between
the different numbers, and there's alot of is doom behind each of the
types that even without doing the test, you can go about reading, reading
up on and figuring out which ofthese resonate with me, which of them
feels like it explains my behavior ina good way. Usually what I find
(16:11):
is that typing is a thoughtful process, but not a hard process, because
usually when we when we find yourtype, Jamie, you would probably read
the description and feel like a littleimplicated and a little too seen and maybe
a little angry. Wait wait,wait, like I don't know that about
me? That's not really fair.Yeah, I like that part, I
(16:32):
don't. There's often a reaction withpeople when they find their type of like,
oh, I don't love being thattype because they've lived it for a
really long time and they see boththe beautiful parts of it in the and
the hard parts of it as well. And so yeah, usually a test
plus a conversation about it, andthen there's the opportunity to just read up
on it. Many resources are widelyavailable online, but the Enneagram Institute in
(16:57):
particular has a great resources that arewidely available in free. Amazing, amazing,
And just one last question here beforeI let you go, because we're
coming to time. Why did youdecide to get certified in the Enneagram as
opposed to any of the other assessmentsthat are out there. You know,
I to the point that I justmade, I don't think I've ever had
(17:18):
such a visceral reaction to being typedas I did with the Enneagram, a
feeling of I'm seen, this feelsright, I don't know where this is
coming from. I'm kind of angryabout it and kind of inspired by it.
I felt the most visceral, kindof like juicy reaction to getting typed
in Anagram than being typed in anyother system. And it was that feeling
(17:41):
that I really had, and thatsame reaction that I've seen in other people,
which caused me to say, thisis actually a really powerful tool if
people are open minded to it.It's certainly my tool of choice if people
are willing to entertain it. Well, thank you so much, Coach Naradith
for sharing with us your insight aboutthe enneagram, and thank you to our
(18:04):
audience for listening. If you wouldlike to work with Coach Meredith or one
of our other qualified coaches, pleasevisit us at THEIDMMX dot com. Thank
you so much for listening. ThanksJamie, thanks for listening. Please subscribe
wherever you listen and leave us areview. Find your ideal coach at www
dot VIIDMX dot com. Special thanksto our producer Martin Maluski and singer songwriter
(18:30):
Doug Allen.
Welcome to Idemics Performance and Wellness,where world leading coaches and scientists explain how
their research can help you achieve yourpersonal and professional goals. Foster hi It's
Sanjayanti, co founder and CEO ofIdemics Coaching. Coaching has played an important
role in my life. It's helpedme through my journey to become a powerful
(00:24):
leader, mother and wife. IDMXcoaches help you increase your self awareness,
improve your problem solving skills, andevolve your habits to achieve your goals,
all things I'm grateful to have learnedand done through my own coaching journey.
Our easy one minute assessment matches youwith an Idemics coach that best fits your
needs and values. Each Idemics coachis vetted and experienced. It helps clients
(00:46):
mad and achieve their wellness, professionaland business goals. If you or someone
you know could benefit from coaching,visit our website at www dotidemics dot com.
We also know that not everyone caninvest in coaching right now, and
that's what we provide free coaching inour Coach Shorts episodes. If you think
someone you know would benefit from it, please share our podcast with them.
(01:07):
Thanks for listening and see you nexttime. Welcome to Coaches to Know,
a podcast short designed to demystified coachingand help you our audience understand what coaching
is and how it can help you. I'm your host, Jamie, and
today I have the pleasure of beinghere with Coach Meredith to discuss the assessment
(01:27):
Enneagram. Coach Meredith has been coachingfor fourteen years and she has certified in
the Enneagram assessment. Before coaching,she worked for fifteen years and management consulting
at Bain. She has authored twobooks focused on career development and living and
Leading with Intention. She holds anMBA from Stanford and a degree in the
(01:51):
Religious Studies from Yale, and herclients are executives at investment firms and those
at larger corporations. So thank youCoach Meredith for being here with us today.
Thanks Jamie. We're just going toget right into it as this is
a short podcast and talk about enniogramand so why don't we start with the
(02:12):
very basic question of what is theAnagram assessment and what is it based on?
I love starting at the beginning.So the enneagram is both tests and
subsequently a model of the human psychethat lays out nine interconnected personality types which
really articulate the depth of what motivatespeople, how they operate their basic fears,
(02:38):
desires, and how they show upboth individuals leaders and then collectively as
executives. Great, and do youwant to delve into a little bit further
of sort of the origins of theaniogram assessment and what sort of how it
came about. Yeah, I lovetalking about where any am came from because
(02:59):
it's really different from some of theother personality assessments. So you know,
I come, as you mentioned,from a very analytical bane background, and
the first assessments that I was certifiedin and that I got to know and
started using with leaders were MBTI andEQI Strengths Finder and things which were robustly
statistically proven from a psychometric perspective.And then it was only later in my
(03:23):
career, probably a decade into coaching, that I came upon amenogram, and
I was originally skeptical because it isnot like those psychometrically proven and statistically robust,
but instead it's a model that comesfrom the wisdom traditions that has kind
of like reflections of showing up inhistory in different places. And then was
(03:44):
actually kind of codified into its currentformat in the nineteen fifties and then came
into the work of leadership in theHuman Potential movement in the nineteen seventies,
and so I found it very curiousand interesting because because it doesn't come from
that scientific background, and at thesame time, I find it to be
probably the most powerful model for workingwith leaders and leadership teams that I've seen.
(04:10):
And the way that it works isthat they are, like I said,
nine different personality types, which areall focused around how do you think
about the depths of someone operating Sothere's usually a basic fear and a basic
desire that each type is operating with. The types are numbered one through nine.
They also have colloquial names that weput against them. They're given numbers
(04:34):
instead of names generally because the nameshave a lot of power and names have
a lot of association with them,but help the types to be neutral because
there's not a good type. There'snot a bad type. There are just
different types in different excuse me,different ways that we kind of operate and
move through the world. And whatenneagram does is help us see what's going
(04:55):
on at the depths of our personalityand what's going on at the depths of
human interactions. Thank you, Thankyou for that. Just a follow up
question, you know you made theconduct that you that you find Nyagraham to
be one of the most powerful assessmentsfor leaders. Why don't we talk a
little bit about what are the bestuse cases for any A Graham? When
do you recommend leaders teams organizations thinkabout using aniogram and is it is it
(05:21):
applicable to individuals as well? Yeah, so the two best use cases are
individual leadership development and then collective teammates. So from an individual leadership development perspective,
it helps individual The reason why Ilike it is because it's multi dimensional.
So a lot of assessments MBTI,for example, gives you a type
of I'm an E NTP or I'man I I N T J, and
(05:46):
they feel a little static in termsof who you are, and that's how
you operate. The thing about theenneagram is that it is developmental, so
you might see that your type,for example, is a type three,
which is what I am, whichis someone who's very focused on achieving,
performing looking good. Often the basicfear of a three is being worthless or
(06:09):
not respected. The basic desire ofA three is to feel valuable, to
be respected, to have other peoplerespect and acknowledge them, to seek approval.
And so there's something about deeply understandingthat which helps me then understand the
path of how do I develop throughthose things and how do I work through
the things that aren't underneath a lotof my behaviors at a more subterranean level
(06:31):
so that I can evolve in thatdirection. And so in the enneagram there
are not only nine types, butthere's the directionality of my type of A
three, which through growth tends tostart to look more like a nine,
or alternatively, lots of the othertypes that grow in the direction of another
type when they start down their developmentalpath. And so what I appreciate about
(06:55):
it from an individual leadership perspective isthat dimensionality, the direction, and the
sense of development and a little bitof the path where you could go.
That is that's enlightened through thinking aboutan any Gram assessment. Now, the
second use case to your question isusing it in executive teams. And where
I see it is most useful inexecutive teams is where it's actually laying bare
(07:18):
the underlying behavior that again, theunderlying motivations that again explain a lot of
behavior. So I often use anyGram assessments for people to understand themselves and
then talk about the dynamics that arehappening in a leadership team around consistent stressors,
consistent triggers, consistent patterns of behavior, and to be able to go
(07:38):
to the thing beneath the thing.So it's not that you're always you're always
over extending yourself, but it's actuallythat you're a type two, which is
someone who's a helper, a giver, someone who really wants to feel loved
and feel like they're useful to people. And so now we're seeing actually the
way that that person's always over extendingthemselves or always saying yes to other people
(07:59):
in a deeper way and the reasonswhy they're doing that instead of just trying
to stay at the superficial layer ofthe behaviors that we're observing on the executive
team. Cool. That's great,Thank you for explaining that. I did
have a follow up question regarding sortof is there so you laid out for
(08:24):
us the sort of best case scenariosor best uses for that, and I
just want to understand a little moredeeply you said, you know, I'm
a three, but I can goand develop to a nine. Is that
like you're choosing to develop to nineand you would work with the coach to
help you change your behavior to developto a nine. Or it's like I'm
(08:46):
a three and naturally threes will developinto like a nine personality. Yeah,
So as you think through the lensof enneagram, each type one through nine
has unhealthy manifestations of that type,and then the healthy manifestations of that type
to be kind of like reconciled,integrated, healthier expressions of that So take
(09:11):
a nine, for example, anine is someone who's known as a peacemaker
or a mediator. They're often theone who's seeking harmony instead of tolerating things
kind of going poorly. Now,unhealthy type of that version would be someone
who might numb out or avoid theconflict, right. A healthier type of
(09:35):
a nine might be someone who doesn'tnumb out or disengage, but engages in
a way that helps actually the groupcome to harmony. So, first of
all, you think of the unhealthyto healthy manifestations of that type, which
coaching, obviously other developmental work cancan help support that evolution. But as
you think about then even evolving beyondthat, right, A nine, for
(09:56):
example, will start to take onsome of the characteristics some of the characteristics
of a three. So instead ofbeing kind of exclusively harmony seeking, they'll
also try and take the group toexcellence as they start to take on some
of the beneficial aspects of the typesthat they grow into. So there is
(10:18):
a whole developmental path kind of withinthe type and then beyond the type,
which mirrors the path in a lotof cases of human evolution, becoming more
integrated, becoming more whole, becominga healthier version of what you are,
starting to mitigate some of the downsidesof your strengths, and really integrating who
you are. I love that ideabecause it really I think hones in on
(10:43):
this. You know, well,I feel like we humans tend to think
of personality as a fixed thing.But something like this that integrates the different
personality and talks about growth around apersonality, whether it's unhealthy or healthy.
Is this idea that you actually havethe capability to weigh into any probably area
(11:05):
of personality that you would want togrow into. You know, it's just
matching that that personality trait to Idon't know if we want to prefer to
demonstrates to that moment, right,But I like the flexibility. Rather than
thinking of personality as the stagnant thing, it's more it's a dynamic thing.
(11:26):
Yeah, I really would fight againstthe binary definitions of care right that it's
a paradox which seems to be resolved. You both at the same time are
who you are and have a certainset of fears, beliefs, mindset,
orientation, and underlying psyche which youhave, you have had, and which
(11:46):
you will continue to have. Andat the same time you can also evolve
and develop beyond that and in adifferent way. Right, So it is
both static and developmental. It isboth that you are who you always are
and you will be that, andyou can be a different, integrated version
of a human, leader, ofan executive. And so it seems like
(12:07):
there's this binary choice between is ecstaticor do you get to completely choose what
you are? And the answer iswell, like, that's kind of a
false binary and you both are whoyou always have been and there's a path
to being different through that. Yeah, And that is one of the things
that I do I really love.But anagram because in all of this conversation.
(12:30):
It just introduces depth. It introducesdepth and development and opportunity for being
ourselves and being different. Yeah.Yeah, yeah, that's great. Are
there any shortcomings to using the aneagram? Like, are there situations where you
wouldn't use it? Yeah? Sothey're not necessarily situations in which I wouldn't
(12:52):
use it. But I think thething that I said early on is the
major reason why I see aneagram notlanding within a system is that if a
system is highly analytical and not openminded to taking the test and seeing the
value and kind of like proving thatfor themselves, right, it's not anyagram
is not something that I can giveyou the linear logical argument as to why
(13:13):
this is the best assessment for you, and I have all the data to
prove why this is the end all, be all for assessments, which is
why I always orient people to anexperimental, iterative test and learn approach of
take the ennagram, see what yourtext is, have a typing conversation with
a coach, figure out whether thatresonates with you, Notice what it feels
like to look at the world throughthat lens, and then figure out whether
(13:35):
that's useful to you and actually drivinginsights proportionately. When I work with leaders,
when I work with executive teams,they find deep insight coming out of
it. But it is something thatyou have to experience for yourself, and
you have to be willing to tryout, because I'm not going to be
able to convince you that it isthe assessment that you should use instead of
(13:56):
another assessment. So systems that arehighly analytical or exclusively data driven and not
open to other sources of wisdom,I wouldn't suggest using it because it's too
much of an uphill battle to embedthat into a culture. But if there's
a certain open mindedness for wisdom comingfrom other places and sources, then it's
a It's a great and very meaningfultool to be using. I love that.
(14:18):
I love that. I mean,basically, the minimal criteria is an
openness seeing what this can tell youand what is the what is the nyogram
sort of what's the nuts and both? What's is it a test? You
know? How many questions are onit? How long does it take an
individual to take? Yeah, sothere's there's there's a number of tests which
(14:39):
will test for any agram. They'reusually about twenty eight to forty minutes long
a series of questions which are alllooking to identify what's actually going on underneath
your behaviors. Like I said,when you get that output from the Enneagram
test, it's usually worth having aconversation with a coach because the tests tend
to have, depending on test itself, sixty to eighty percent fidelity and actually
(15:03):
accurately typing you. And that's inpart because there's a lot of interactivity between
the types. So you could belike I am I am. I am
primarily a type three. Each typealso has a wing, which is a
slight influence from one of the sides. So I'm a three and I'm a
with a wing four, so Ihave a little bit of four influence on
and threes evolve to sixes, right, and they go to nines in stress.
(15:26):
So you could look at look atmy test results and say, oh,
I see a three and a sixand a nine and a four,
and there's some differentiation that needs tohappen, usually in usually in a coaching
conversation with someone who knows the nagramto say, how do we make sense
of this and how do we actuallyunderstand what you're showing up as and in
what context. But yeah, it'sa test. And then in addition to
(15:50):
the test, there's the depth ofthe model. So the model has directions
of stress and directions of growth thatyou grow in. It has relationships between
the different numbers, and there's alot of is doom behind each of the
types that even without doing the test, you can go about reading, reading
up on and figuring out which ofthese resonate with me, which of them
feels like it explains my behavior ina good way. Usually what I find
(16:11):
is that typing is a thoughtful process, but not a hard process, because
usually when we when we find yourtype, Jamie, you would probably read
the description and feel like a littleimplicated and a little too seen and maybe
a little angry. Wait wait,wait, like I don't know that about
me? That's not really fair.Yeah, I like that part, I
(16:32):
don't. There's often a reaction withpeople when they find their type of like,
oh, I don't love being thattype because they've lived it for a
really long time and they see boththe beautiful parts of it in the and
the hard parts of it as well. And so yeah, usually a test
plus a conversation about it, andthen there's the opportunity to just read up
on it. Many resources are widelyavailable online, but the Enneagram Institute in
(16:57):
particular has a great resources that arewidely available in free. Amazing, amazing,
And just one last question here beforeI let you go, because we're
coming to time. Why did youdecide to get certified in the Enneagram as
opposed to any of the other assessmentsthat are out there. You know,
I to the point that I justmade, I don't think I've ever had
(17:18):
such a visceral reaction to being typedas I did with the Enneagram, a
feeling of I'm seen, this feelsright, I don't know where this is
coming from. I'm kind of angryabout it and kind of inspired by it.
I felt the most visceral, kindof like juicy reaction to getting typed
in Anagram than being typed in anyother system. And it was that feeling
(17:41):
that I really had, and thatsame reaction that I've seen in other people,
which caused me to say, thisis actually a really powerful tool if
people are open minded to it.It's certainly my tool of choice if people
are willing to entertain it. Well, thank you so much, Coach Naradith
for sharing with us your insight aboutthe enneagram, and thank you to our
(18:04):
audience for listening. If you wouldlike to work with Coach Meredith or one
of our other qualified coaches, pleasevisit us at THEIDMMX dot com. Thank
you so much for listening. ThanksJamie, thanks for listening. Please subscribe
wherever you listen and leave us areview. Find your ideal coach at www
dot VIIDMX dot com. Special thanksto our producer Martin Maluski and singer songwriter
(18:30):
Doug Allen.
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