June 27, 2023 • 57 mins
How do you own the status of podcaster? Where is the right balance of tension and drama, online or off? And when is it time to hit "publish?"
Guest: Adam Powell, Snyder's Return podcast
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Promo: CHAIKA
Disclaimer: Arthur T.
Art: Troy Larson
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/
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Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast
Sponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 25% off)
Sponsor: Komuso Design (code bliss15 for 15% off)
Sponsor: Horrific Hope Film Festival 2024 (code bliss24 for 15% off submission)
Guest: Adam Powell, Snyder's Return podcast
....................
Promo: CHAIKA
Disclaimer: Arthur T.
Art: Troy Larson
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/
....................
Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast
Sponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 25% off)
Sponsor: Komuso Design (code bliss15 for 15% off)
Sponsor: Horrific Hope Film Festival 2024 (code bliss24 for 15% off submission)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
This is Valence, a Laaren engineeringlead lunar mining seeking urgent status update on
well Earth Jacob, a science fictionaudio drama. Nothing has been heard from
(00:22):
the Mars colony since before Earth wentsilent. Maybe uh, maybe they all
died too, and all I willfind is their bolts. I could be
the last last human. I cannotstay thrust, Jacob, could you could
(00:46):
you prepare the shuttle affirmative long orshort range journey? Oh? Long,
very long? They come? Ian you get? How may I have
the pleasure of addressing you? It'schicker chaka Russian for seagull, called sign
(01:08):
of Russian cosmonauta Valentina Tereshkova, thefirst earth woman in space. Yes,
by my mother gave me that name. Mmm. Probably time you got to
know some non human people. Ohyou mean like you? Yes, I
am a delightful acquaintance. I yes, I'm sure you are. You've frightened
(01:38):
her, Ah, she'll get overit. She has other things on her
mind checker. For more information,please visit y t u K pod dot
com slash checker. That'sh ai Ka repeat priority communication to moonbase. Get
(02:07):
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Please this podcast involves topics such asviolence, sex, and mental illness.
If this might disturb you or thosearound you, please reconsider it's okay.
Privacy and confidentiality have been protected,with personal information removed when possible. If
(02:30):
you ever feel unsafe or suicidal,please call your local crisis center, emergency
services, or national hotline. Inthe United States, the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline is eight hundred two seven threeeight two five five. That's eight hundred
two seven three eight two five fiveyou matter. Hey, this is K
(03:00):
eight. I feel like I've saidit lots of times before in different ways,
but that has some weight to it. I think if I say it
more than once, I probably reallymean it. That there's a lot of
parallels between podcasting and real life.There's ways to do it in ways not
(03:24):
to and better approaches and less successfulapproaches, and you meet people that are
really fantastic, and then there's otherpeople you just try not to talk about,
you know what I'm saying, Andso sometimes when I have these recordings
with other podcasters, I just I'mdelighted all over again by Yeah, you
(03:49):
get it, you get it,you hear me. Even when It's someone
who before recording, I'd never listento his show. My queue is a
thousand miles long, and I've beenstupid sick this year, so I was
like, yeah, let's just record, let's go, let's go to be
fine, it'd be great. Andit turns out I was right, it
(04:12):
was fine. It was great.So this is Adam. He runs a
kind of hybrid tabletop role playing andreviews and creator interview type set up called
Snyder's Return, and we just wecrossed paths in the weird way that podcasters
(04:33):
do, and I was like,oh yeah, I like usually to listen
to at least some of somebody's stuffbefore they come on my show. And
then February hit and February twenty twentythree was when I started to get super
sick, and so the end theresult was that I hadn't listened to a
(04:56):
single second. And yet he's fantasticand we have a ton in common,
and there's just there are so manyparallels between the different genres of podcasting,
in between podcasting in just living life. Are you sure you really want to
know? This is ignorance? Wasbliss? I'm Adam Powell. I am
(05:53):
the lead interviewer, games master andeditor for Snyder's Return, which is a
UK based TTRPG or tabletop role playinggame podcast and YouTube channel. It's a
pleasure to be here. I'm delightedto talk with you. So, I
mean, I think people have heardpeople have heard other other gamers on my
(06:14):
show, But occasionally I still getasked, even though we're kind of well
into the podcasting era and well intothe knowing what actual players? What do
you tell people when they're like,why would I want to listen to somebody
else to play games? Why wouldyou want to listen? So it's in
many respects, it's like wanting whywould you listen to someone else read an
audiobook? Why would you not justread the words off the page. You
(06:35):
want to live the experience, Youwant to feel it, you want to
be immersed in it. The differencebetween an audio drama and actual players the
use of dice to act as arandomizer, a variable within the story,
and this creates moments of tension anddrama. So by listening and engaging with
an actual player above say an audiobookon audio drama, you get to sense
(06:59):
that exhilaration or frustration when the roleof a dice. Depending on the system,
the role of a dice changes theebb and flow of the story and
you're drawn in. You want tofeel that anticipation. You want to be
there with the character, with theplayer, with the group as a whole.
(07:20):
So listening to an actual play canreally be an oddly bonding experience to
the content creators that are making thesestories and putting them out for all of
us to enjoy. What system doyou use? So our current show on
Snyder's Return is called Meddaller's Monsters andMadment and it uses the sun Evoak system
(07:45):
called City of Mist. City Mistis a powered by the Apocalypse or a
two D six controlled system which fusesthe idea of having an everyday, maybe
mundane existence, will also being touchedby a mythological or supernatural force that can
(08:07):
be woven into the world and yethidden from the populace. It's it's sort
of almost Superhero meets Netflix meets theX Files. I guess there's an odd
blend of touchstones. So people whohave listened to our show for a while
are familiar with I've had a coupleof cast members from The Kris Show on
(08:31):
and they use Monster of the Week, and so that's sort of a parallel,
right, that's a similar two Dsix D six Yes, the type
of die that you use playing monopolyor parties. You, yeah, exactly,
that a standard sort of six sidedgaming dice. And obviously there are
there's a whole raft of games thatuse different shapes and numbered sided dice.
(08:54):
But for our current show, wedecided to go with the Team miss system,
which, much like the Kid shows, Monster of the Week is,
as you say, a two sided, two six sided dice game with modifiers.
And so, what made you chooseCity of Missed for Snyder's return,
(09:16):
Like, is there something that drewyou do it? And you paid it
before? The concept pretty much sortof instigated the desire to play in and
try out the characters, the Pregeneratorcharacters again, the starter set sort of
typify what the game is about,a mixture of mundane and supernatural or mythological,
(09:41):
and that sort of fired the imaginationof myself and the players I was
running or I am running the gamefour and from there we went in to
create our own characters. The systemis very straightforward. It uses the two
D six plus what's known as tagsto modify the dice role. But these
tags and need positive or negative sothat it allows for a greater variance in
(10:03):
their use through gameplay. So havinga solid mechanic which is easy to learn
and fun to play, this mixtureof sort of hidden lives and yet or
inspiring power available to the players andmyself as the MC with respect to this
system just really sort of engaged usas a group. The pre written adventures
(10:30):
that I've been sort of weaving together, it just all ties together and made
an experience that we were happy andexcited to produce for others to enjoy.
Who is Snyder So it's not relatedto Zack Snyder or anything like that.
It's actually our name comes from whenI first started learning TTRPGs as a fully
(10:54):
grown adult in my thirties, whenwe gathered around the table to play at
work. Funnily enough, one ofthe snacks peabody is Snyders of hanover the
pretzel pieces. So every time wegot back together, Snyder's returned, and
then we just cut the extra bitoff to Snyder's return and it's amazing.
(11:16):
I adore that. Again, It'sjust another part of the bonding experience that
has brought myself and so many peopletogether as players and content creators for TTRPGs.
That is deep lore right there.I really appreciate that mightily. That's
wonderful. So I come from initiallya background in true crime, okay,
(11:43):
which I'm trying to be diplomatic andI often fail at this and also don't
care please go with it, butthe true crime community is problematic in many
ways. It tends to be voyeuristic, con sensationalistic, and so it has
to be handled carefully because you're literallyprofiting off someone else's pain and so you
(12:05):
have to be careful with it.And there's people who are you know,
it's it's tragedy porn right. Andalso I joined because I thought, what
can I bring to the table Becausethere's enough people out there doing narratives of
a crime and it's follow up andwhatever, and so I don't need to
do that. I don't need torepeat what other people have already done.
(12:28):
So what can I bring? Well, what I can bring is to humanize
both sides. Both the victim andthe perpetrator are all human beings. And
if we don't understand the perpetrator,how are we possibly going to do anything
to make any progress in the world. And I was at a conference and
(12:48):
I had someone tell me that Iwasn't true crime enough to call myself true
crime, and so at first myanswer included a lot of explicitives, but
then you're helpfully, I didn't speakthem out loud because it was literally in
the middle of this, like inthe middle of the Khan, like on
this ballroom floor, and so Ididn't say anything. Then I just sort
(13:11):
of thank you for your input ina very up your sort of way.
And then later I thought about it, and I was like, Okay,
that was some cute gate keeping there, rather than fight, like you can
die on this hill, at leastyou'll be dead, right like that was
sort of my feeling, And soI decided to put back the lens and
decide, aren't you going to talkto anybody? I just because that's what
I want as connection with people aroundthe world. But there's a lot of
(13:35):
drama and angst and backstabbing and weirdnessin the true crime community still now to
this day, and I can't tellbecause I'm kind of coming from the outside
a little bit. Does do yousee that happen in the actual play?
Community. I have to say oneof the things that helped us get in
(13:58):
initially because like many people, we'vebeen inspired to take on a hobby or
a passion and sort of try andcarry it forward for ourselves and and sort
of keep it going for ourselves andothers. When we first started, we
reached out to established podcasters in theTTRPG community, and rather than get snubbed
as being the little person or thenew the new person on the block,
(14:22):
they were supportive. They provided recommendationsfor recording software, they you know,
how to do basic edits, whoto reach out to for further advice if
we wanted to sort of carry on. And from there they supported us,
and we've supported them, and thenwe've supported others who have just started their
(14:43):
journey, and they've supported others,and there's very much more. Maybe because
we're so niche in that respect,there's a lot of support for each other.
It's the same, slightly different,but the same for actual place streams
on Twitter, chare YouTube. Becausethe community is so small, everybody has
not has to Everybody chooses to supporteach other so we all grow together.
(15:09):
One of the great phrases mantras,maybe is a better word that one of
my guests. I don't know ifthey came up with it or just best
aligned it with what we're going through. But a rising tide lifts or ships.
So you don't want to sort ofput people down. You don't want
to climb on people to try andput yourself ahead, because you stick out
(15:33):
like the proverbial saw thumb, andpeople then won't associate with you. It's
not so much they're being horrible,but if you're seeing to be putting down
other creators, then why would thiscreator want to help you when they could
help other creator? So in thehow we've been doing this, Oh,
(15:54):
that's a good question. Three threefour years we've been sort of put in
the show together and podcasting, wehave supported and been supported by so many
fantastic content creators and podcasters in theTTRPG community that it inspires us to now
reach out to shows and say,would you like to swap promotions? You
(16:15):
know, there's no charge, there'sno obligation. If you send us yours,
I'll put it on on our feed. And if I send you ours
and you don't like it or itdoesn't align with your show sensibilities for reasons
that you know, care to matterto you and your your listeners, then
(16:37):
then don't use it. It's totallyfine, and you know, we get
a good response for that. We'vehad guests come on, I've spoken personally
through the interview side and showed tosome of the biggest I guess biggest names
in the TTRPG community with respect tocontent creation and actual place shows and things
(16:59):
like that. Because people are keento support each other. We understand that
a certain amount of creators passing aroundthe same ten dollars is a sort of
current joke is not going to sustainthe hobby for long. But if we
can bring other people and make itwelcoming, grow the community together, then
everybody benefits. There can be ten, twenty thirty, forty fifty of the
(17:22):
same TTRPG interview shows, but eachone is different. Each one brings something
different, a new perspective, somethingto offer that maybe our show doesn't.
We have a very like your show, Kate is very much more conversational with
people working through kickstarters or bringing showsor advice to dms and gems, whereas
(17:45):
other shows may concentrate more on theDMGM side of things, or may concentrate
more on specific systems. So thereis room in this niche for all of
us, and we support each andone because I don't know, just because
we too, because we care foreach other in that respect, we respect
(18:07):
and trust each other because you're tryingto not be a dick. Yeah,
it's the short answer. Yes,yeah, yeah, I followed you can
twenty minutes of no, not atall. But that's that's where it is,
and that's I'm seeing a little bitmore of that in true crime as
time goes on and as people realizeif I can get someone to listen to
(18:29):
app podcast, even if they're notlistening to mine, they're now in the
area. They're now in listening toa form of media that they weren't before,
which means they may bring somebody elsealong for me. Or maybe I'm
not right for them. That's okayif I'm not right for everyone. But
if I get to know you,then I can direct you towards my friends.
(18:52):
I've made the closest friends of mylife through this, and some of
them I'm like, you know what, you couldn't pay me to listen to
your show, but I adore youas a human and so absolutely let me
need to know you more so thatI can accurately direct people your way.
Yeah, I think there's an unspokenbond of understanding of how much work actually
(19:15):
goes into the back end of podcasts. And again the same applies for streams
and video content creators on platforms likeYouTube, that we know how much work
goes into putting into each episode.And therefore, as you say, while
my show might not be for you, I could. I could send you
just five or six others and knowthat they are quality shows, and they
(19:37):
may send two or three back inmy direction, not because we're trying to
you know, favor favor, butjust because we know how each other works
and what each others can provide tolisteners out there. Well, I had
that an interesting experience, and itwas it happened to be in twenty and
(19:59):
eighteen where I had the one conwhere I had somebody told me I wasn't
crimy enough, and I was like, okay, like look, I've literally
testified in court and you don't knowwhere the nearest prison is to your house,
so thanks. So that was athing that happened, and I you
know, I know who it was. I never listened to their show with
the prior because I was turned offby the name of their show, which
(20:26):
I'm not going to say here becausesomebody maybe somebody's favorite show and good for
them, but it was basically thatthat leaning into that tragedy porn thing and
it just wasn't for me. Andthen about three months after that, there
was a conference for audio drama,which I don't have. I've taken part
in some, I've done some voiceacting, but I don't have an audio
(20:49):
drama but he was being held.The conference is being held at my eldest
kids college, so I kind ofhave to go, you know, you
have to support the kid and supportthe medium whatever. And a friend learned
that I was going to be thereand said, would you run a table
for my show? I was like, sure, I mean that way,
(21:11):
I know I have a place tosit. Yeah, right, And I
ended up kind of being the chauffeurfor a bunch of people, and one
other creator stayed at my house thatweekend rather than paying for a motel room
or whatever. So it was prettyfunny all around. And it's so much
easier to hype somebody else's work thanmy own, Like when people say,
(21:33):
like, oh, why should Ilisten to my show? I'm like,
I don't know, why should Isten to their show? Oh, let
me tell you fifteen reasons why it'samazing because there's not that that self doubt
involved. You can just focus onthe positive. And that was such a
sort of learning experience for me anda lightbulb moment of people don't need to
(21:56):
hear me put myself down, andpeople really don't need to hear me put
anybody else down. And there's apower and I think I use that word
correctly, that there's a power tohyping work, whether it's my own and
if I can't hype my own,hype somebody else's and it just it feels
(22:17):
good to point out, like thisis an amazing human being and they create
amazing work. Goal listen to theirstuff. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
I think I think you're right withthe power. While it might not be
sort of containable in a battery ora capacity or any kind of electrical circuit,
(22:37):
it is tangible in that sense thatyou can you can feel it,
you can radiate it, and youcan receive it as well. When when
communities or shows or just individuals worktogether or at least don't work against each
other in that respect. There's justnot enough time in the day to me
(23:00):
to gate keep other people or putother people down. And I understand that
some people enjoy that, okay,Like all that does is tell me give
them a wide berth, because ifthey're speaking that way about another creative,
then very likely they're speaking in thatway about me. And I may earn't
it like fair. I let's notpretend I'm perfect in any sense, but
(23:21):
overall it was. It was FredRogers, you know, mister Rogers,
who talked about when things are goingbad, they look for the helpers,
look for the people who run tothe tragedy rather than away from it.
And this is a smaller, saferversion of that right of look for the
positive people, the ones who say, yeah, come on my show,
(23:41):
Yeah, let's talk about this.Do you want to grab twenty minutes on
zoom so I can walk you throughhow to do a thing or whatever?
Like? Those are the people thatare invaluable. It's very much, so
very much. And the more ofthose people and the more we can be
included in those people where possible,that the better, not just our respective
(24:06):
nieces, but podcasting and content creationand a community society becomes. We've sort
of gone from a very sort ofpigeon holds the wrong phrase but very sort
of on topic to to sort ofa much broader sense of respect for one
(24:29):
another. And I think that isimportant as we sort of zero back in
on primarily podcasting. Like you've beenso generous in offering me to come on
your show, and I would neverthought that would have been a case six
months, a year, two yearsago. Um, so you know,
(24:52):
and with with your good self hostingme, I will be able to support
your show, and then others willfind your show and they will support you,
and they'll support and it just Iwouldn't say it's self perpetuating, but
it's it's only a benefit. Really. Well, you know what, in
my head, I'm already and I'mnot going to say it on an Arab
because I don't want to you inthe spot or them in the spot,
(25:14):
but I'm already thinking of like threepeople were like, oh, you should
have these people on your show becausethey're amazing, And that's just that's how
I think. And I think that'sthere's a fundamental how do you think about
humanity? Maybe society maybe you knowyou use the word society, that maybe
be the right word. Like I'man organizer, I'm community oriented. I
(25:37):
think about not what can I dofor you? Always, because sometimes I
think I think there's also it's importantfor people to ask. It's important for
people to identify their own needs ratherthan for me to sort of talk down
to people and say, well,here's what you need to do. Differently,
but somebody comes to me and says, can I come on your show?
Like I actually I tell people thison the regulars that I have on
(26:00):
my phone a no list, andit's only about ten or twenty people.
I don't know, it's been awhile since I've counted, but there's a
hand there's there's some number of people, a couple of handsful of people that
I do not want to support becauseI don't appreciate attitudes they have espoused in
(26:22):
other areas or interactions I've I've watched, for instance, people who belittle new
podcasters, people who make rape chokeson social media, people who don't show.
When you have a kind of likeone no show, no big deal,
everybody has life happened. But whenyou have three no shows, sorry,
(26:44):
you're on the no list. That'show it's at, you know.
And I have to have that becauseI'm so prone to, yeah, come
on, come play, and Idon't care if you've got one show or
five hundred shows each and so oneof the things that it doesn't irritate me.
That's not the right word exactly,but I get a chill, I
(27:06):
get a little I'm demonstrating with peoplewho can hear it, but it'sn't feeling.
Is if I have somebody say,oh, you got that person that's
a good get, that's a bigname, you know, and I'm like,
we are, we just maybe don'tknow it yet. That's fair.
That's fair, you know. Andthey gotta struct somewhere where else are you
going to how how are you goingto become a good get without the opportunity
(27:29):
to tell your story? Yeah,that's it's very fair. So I guess
not not the flip side of that, but but you know, we we
and not understanding that the full layoutof the true crime side of podcasting,
but I know for the TTRPG side, there are those that are that are
(27:52):
put on pedestals and and they arethe ones you want to aspire to welcome
it into the show, but we'realso back full of their time, so
we are proud of ourselves when weget them. But again, we don't
try and put down others if theyhave others or so, Yeah, I
can certainly see where you're coming from, and that support still sort of runs
(28:15):
through in the background, as I'vehad it a couple of times where I've
had someone on my show and saidto a fellow podcast that they mentioned when
the recording and finished that they werethey were free and looking for others.
So I mentioned your show, Ihope you I hope you're happy with that,
and they were like perfect, Iwas going to reach out anyway,
(28:36):
and that's just confirmed my intention andthings like that. So there is there
are so many ways that we cansupport and not over over egg. I've
gone totally weird with that not overdoit and and sort of put each other
down by trying to self congratulate ourselvesin that respect. Well sure, and
(28:59):
you know, all right fair onthe other side of things, like I
sort of can't. I used tobefore Twitter was accesspool, because I mean,
I guess it's always been accessedpol butit's really access pool now. But
I used to sort of spend moretime trolling Twitter for new podcasters, for
people who were just starting out,to sort of reach out and be like,
(29:22):
hey, is there any way Ican help, Because when I was
starting out, that was a bigdeal to have people talk to me and
not necessarily give me pointers, butjust remind me like, yeah, you're
doing well, you're doing what youhit published. That's a success. And
recently I've had two people say tome, you know you're you're reaching out
to me early on your encouragement Ithink helped me keep going. And I
(29:48):
remember being like that means more tome than the times when I've gotten the
household names on my shove, becauselike one of them are Double has become
a household show now and so it'slike cool that, like we got to
admit there's something cool about having aa role in this person's success. I
(30:11):
don't I don't take credit. Theydid it. They're they're the ones that
are magical. But sometimes we allneed that cheerleading in the background. And
on the flipside, like there arepeople that they're just kind of assholes.
There's no there's no way around that, and all I can do is sort
of no, thank you, Yeah, that's fair, I mean unfortunate,
(30:36):
though. We have to have thesepeople in the world because that makes us
appreciate those who are genuine and niceand good and supportive and all those sorts
of things. So I guess balanceis important, right, even though they're
assholes. Now, okay, doyou have any good like asshole stories?
(31:00):
We're just going to steer clear therebecause I always want to know, but
that you don't have to think.I think I would say I've been I've
been very lucky. I've I've sortof landed on my feet with with the
guests and things, and you know, I have wanted things to go other
ways. I've tried to. I'vealways tried to do too much at at
times and try and over promise andoccasionally under under deliver from my own standards.
(31:26):
Um, you know, coming upwith with episodes and games and an
interview ideas and and sort of chasingthrough maybe too many streams of consciousness at
the same time has has come backto haunt me somewhat. But um,
you know, I've been lucky withthe guests I've had, with the way
(31:48):
the podcast has gone and continues togo. If I could have more hours
in the day, I would probablyprocrastinate and waste them anyway. But you
know, I edit when I can, and I try and sit down and
knuckle down and sort of edit theepisodes down as regularly and as to the
(32:08):
standard I expected myself. Again,not holding them up against other shows,
because we all do. We allhave our own processes, we all use
different equipment, even though we're achievingthe same thing. It's what I want
for myself, for my for theshow to put out for people to enjoy.
So yeah, more time would bemore wasted time. Yeah, I
(32:31):
get it, I do. Ido get it, and you know,
and I complain about the true crimecommunity. Meanwhile I'm in the background working
on a narrative true crime show.So like, I get it, I
get it. I just want toget better, Like I want to prove
that because there are shows out thereto do it well, and so I'm
(32:53):
like, if they can do itwell, I can do it well.
That's my goal. And so fairy'sfair. It's just I'm fully aware of
my own hypocrisy. There. It'sfun, it's fine, it's fine.
Well, I was going to saythat there's an element of again, jealousy
is the right word, and yetthe wrong word. Listening to other podcasts
(33:15):
and some that I really enjoy,and I hear the way they do the
background music or the sound effects,or the way they break their episodes down
or do intros, or the waythey have guests and all this sort of
stuff. I'm like, I wantto do that. I want to be
like you, But I realize itcan't be like you because I've got to
do me and what I'm doing isn'twrong. But I so wish I could
(33:37):
be more like you in just afew ways, and it helps drive me
forward. But I know I'm nevergoing to achieve that mark because every time
I probably reach it, I thenpush it away further myself. It's a
very strange, ongoing sort of relationshipI have with podcasting. I don't know
how you sort of feel about yourown show as you edit and even subconsciously
(34:02):
compare it to others, if yousort of listened to a few others in
your in your area. But Ikeep wanting to hit that professional mark that
I probably don't have the kit forat the moment. I probably don't have
the time for at the moment.I mentioned procrastinating before, but I still
hear it, and I still wantto strive to get as close as I
(34:23):
can, So a little bit ofenvy helps drive my desire in that respect,
Do you listen to shows that arein different genres from yours? When
I find time, I try anddva out, But between a full time
(34:44):
job and the podcasting and the childcareof responsibilities, I somehow time out.
We're putting headphones in and listening toother shows too often, So I just
kind of have a core three orfour. And then when I can,
most of the times from recommendations frommy friends in the podcast community, because
(35:07):
they're who I seem to spend themost time with, I will then try
and listen to other podcasts. Haveyou found value in listening to podcasts outside
of your genre? Myself, hugevalue, And that's as much because so
I experienced a traumatic brain injury intwenty ten, and for a while my
(35:30):
world got very small. I gotvery limited in how I could think and
what I could think about. AndI just I'm used to being a smart
girl, you know what I mean. Like I was always a smart kid
growing up, and suddenly I wasn'tsuddenly, Like there was a while where
I had complete word aphasia, whichis when you don't have words, and
(35:52):
I still if I'm tired or I'mstressed. I had difficulty with it for
a while. I couldn't think interms of fiction, like everything was real
to me, everything was nonfiction tome. And so when I started this
in new podcast, I started withtrue crime because I knew true crime.
I understood it, and so Iwrote for another show for a little bit.
(36:16):
I guessed it a few times,and then I sort of said on
my couch and moped because nobody washeaving me on as a guest. That's
because they didn't know I existed there. And so I thought, well,
I'll start a show and it'll befive or ten episodes, and I'll explain
what forensic psychology is and it's not, and then we'll be done. And
here we are five years later.You know, it's an addiction, it
(36:39):
is. I fully owned this.You know what is one of the first
things I did i got into thehospital is I really stood episode, Like
that's the thing. And so aftera little while in the podcast world,
right after I was I had thegatekeeping experience happened. I was talking to
a friend of mine who hated crimeand would not listen to any of it,
(37:01):
but who was also a podcaster,and I said, okay. His
his genre was actual play, okay, and I was like, okay,
give me a show and I willlisten. Give me one of the ends,
so you know, so because thereare some that keep going, keep
going and keep going, and whichis wonderful of them, but I needed
my first one to be one thatended. So I was like, give
(37:21):
me one the ends, but giveme a show, and I will listen
from start to finish and we'll see. And it turned out it was fantastic.
It was such a good experience becauseit was so it was it was
a shadow run game, okay,so it didn't remotely resemble normal society as
(37:43):
we know it certainly not anything thatI live in, and that really helped
prove to me, like I canfollow this. I get this. And
then I started listening to some audiodramas and I started realizing pretty quickly like
what I could and could not dobecause also, by the way, I'm
deaf, and so everything I listenedto is at one hundred percent all the
(38:06):
time, and so I learned,for instance, if you have music in
the background, yeah, about halfof those shows I simply can't listen to.
The music has to be super quietbecause if it interferes, and if
it's in the same tonal range asthe speech. And these are things I
learned about myself. And I learnedto start owning the fact that, yes,
you can be a podcaster who isdeaf, and you can listen to
(38:29):
podcasts when you were deaf, becausedeaf isn't an on off switch, and
learning to own that about myself.And after the traumatic brain injury, I
developed ADHD because I have a lesiondirectly on my right frontal lobe, which
is where executive functioning sits. Andso the feeling of you know, knowing
(38:50):
other podcasters who do this, whohave ADHD, in the feeling of I
can accomplish something, it all,all of those are facets of start to
feel smart again and smart, startingto have connections again with other people.
I've been on permanent disabilities since twentyfourteen because I broke me back. Don't
do that, and it's such anisolating experience for a while, But then
(39:15):
you make these connections and you realizeI still have value in the world,
I still have things. So andthat's both from listening and from creating,
and it's been a very powerful thing. And some of the shows that I've
really enjoyed are shows that I neverwould have chosen on my own, but
somebody recommended them or a friend createdthem, and I was like, okay,
(39:38):
well I guess and it's it's literallylike I'm not overstating. I used
to be a little not ashamed,but okay, we'll go with it.
I used to be a little ashamedor overwhelmed or something. It felt silly
to say podcasting had changed my life, but unquestionably podcasting has changed my life.
(39:58):
Yeah, for sure. So withthis change in your life through well
following life circumstances, situations, happenings, and occurrences and podcasting, where are
you taking your show? Do youhave an end goal in sight? Or
are you sort of going until thegoing is no longer good in that respect
(40:22):
from either a listenership or a personalstandpoint. Well, part of the entert
to that is I don't care aboutlistenership. I wanted I told you before
we started recording that in about theone year mark, I had a personal
change that impacted how I use socialmedia and how I function. Basically,
(40:46):
I left the show for a coupleof months and when I came back,
long time listeners know, it's whenmy dad died. And when I came
back, I was like, whatam I going to do differently? And
I decided one of the things I'mgoing to do it differently other than not
use Instagram anymore, was I'm goingto stop checking my my stats, my
analytics, because that would stress meout. I would worry about is this
(41:12):
this episode got fewer downloads than thatone? Does that mean it's not as
good is the other one? Orshould I would stop? I just had
to stop that because that's to me. To me, the value in each
episode is free standing, and thedownloads are not a good reflection. You
know, I'll get a large numberof downloads just because somebody is famous,
(41:35):
but that doesn't mean it's a betterepisode than one that only has one person
listening, you know what I mean? And so I listenership is not really
the thing. I'm going to keepgoing as long as it is more fun
than stress. That's my metric.And you know, I've had two secondary
(41:57):
shows that have I've Pride and Fadedpod Fade is a real thing, both
of which started with a very specificstated goal and concept. But over time,
and I'm not sure if it's mypersonality or their personalities or just bad
(42:21):
habits or whatever, but they startedto feel like Ignorance was a bliss two
point zero. And it's like,I'm already doing ignorance is bliss. I
don't need another one. And aswell, one of my co hosts had
I guess both of them in theirway had personal issues and had to step
away. And so I've decided thatany other shows I do, if I'm
(42:43):
in charge, they have to beextraordinarily different. And so when I talk
about having a narrative true crime show, it's going to be scripted. It's
going to be co written. I'mnot sure right now whether we're both going
to narrate it or whether it's justgoing to be my voice, but it's
going to be written down down beforeI say a word. That's that's wildly
different. Like I have an audiobookout and that was a very very different
(43:07):
experience, which I never would havehad the opportunity to do except the author
came on my show, you know. And so that's what I'm doing,
is using like and keeping it veryopen and as long as it stays more
fun stress, and as long asI keep meeting people where I'm like,
yeah, this is why I dothe thing, I'm going to keep doing
the thing. Yeah, definitely,i'd love to you mentioned there about sort
(43:30):
of it's voice arte and recording anaudiobook. I'd eventually love to get into
the position where I could. I'vebeen part of a couple of audio dramas,
but do it more consistently and moreprofessionally. But with the way my
work works, unfortunately, I can'tdedicate time to specific projects like that.
(43:53):
So people are like, yo,why don't you come and be on here
or come and do this over along extended period, And then I look
at the work schedule and then nowit's going to change in a few months
and I'm like, I can't.I can't. It literally breaks me.
I can't, but I still enjoythe process. So yeah, the audiobooks
(44:15):
on this kind side of stuff,I'd love to pick your brains about at
some point to sort of understand andget into that side of stuff on my
own merit obviously not just trying tocoast on your hotels kind of thing,
but yeah, I mean, ifI have coaches to coast and you're welcome
to coast on them. You know, it's a I just very recently had
(44:38):
a second author come on who wasinterested in having an audiobook created, and
I was like, you know,I could do it, but I don't
think you want a female voice forit. It doesn't feel right. And
I immediately thought of email podcaster andI'm like, why don't let me talk
(44:59):
to him because I don't want toput them on the spot. And now
they're doing it. They're they're creatingthis audio book. And you know,
like anything with podcasting, people lookat podcasting for the most part and they're
like, oh, that's not whereyou make money, and it's true,
like it's not a money making opportunity. And with audiobooks you have to have
(45:20):
proof of concept, so you haveto do in my opinion, you have
to be prepared to do at leastone or two for free to prove that
you can and will and that youknow that you're good for it basically,
and for me, because I'm deafand because I have kids and kids are
loud and they ruin everything. Idid the whole book in like two and
(45:45):
a half days. Wow, thereading part, and then I took longer
on the editing, but I didit all at once because I can't really
hear my own pitch and tenor andfor an audiobook, you want to maintain
pacing through the whole thing. Sofor me, it was realistically like a
three day project and then another,however many days to do the editing and
(46:08):
cleaning it up and uploading it.And so I'm actually going to be doing
her second book coming up here,and and so it's it's things like that.
It's it's it's dangerous to do thingsfor free. You want to be
careful what you promise and what youdon't like. She knows that I'm not
yours forever for free, no matterwhat. Yeah, but there are circumstances
(46:35):
that we all know that this isn'tgoing to be a forever thing anyway.
Like she's she's done writing after thissecond book. And so I'm like,
all right, well, find itmakes most sense for you to have the
same voice for your two books.And it's someone I know very well.
And so my answer is go aheadand try and pay me. I dare
you, you know. But butthat's the thing is you get your foot
in the door, you get oneone author who would like their book read
(46:59):
as an audio book but hasn't thoughtabout it, doesn't have the setup,
doesn't know how to do the process, and so you're like, hey,
hey, hey, what if Iread your book and you shop you know,
because it's not shopping it around,it's just them uploading it to audible.
Basically there's a process. But I'mlike, hey, you know,
(47:21):
I could um, you know,do that thing that you know, just
as a thought. Yeah, Andit's and that's a hard thing, you
know. Selling yourself is difficult,like you're talking about earlier. But having
been in the podcasting world for severalyears, I've got the confidence to be
like, look, if you sayno, it's it's no big But I
(47:42):
think I can do this. Let'stry it. It's fair if you had
to create a podcast in a differentgenre, where would you go. Let's
pretend you've got infinite money and infinitetime, and also the kids are quiet.
I well, I am enjoying andtherefore would like to invest more time.
(48:06):
Maybe not more time. I enjoyit and therefore would like would potentially
god m rambling now because I'm nervous. I like country music, so I
would potentially go still stick with maybethe interview route because I've become quite comfortable.
But maybe I'm too comfortable in that. But I like country music,
(48:27):
so it might be country music centered, but not necessarily I don't know that
would be the genre. Maybe likereview type thing or more of an introduction
type thing. Oh see, nowwe're getting into specifics. Maybe reviews,
Maybe reviews give a feedback were atthe moment I for the TTPG interviews,
(48:50):
you know, I get the guestson and I learn more about them and
their products and their creations and whatthey're doing in the community and all that
sort of stuff. It'd be nicealmost flipped that on its head and listen
to an album or or some ora performance and then give a feedback and
be able to sort of maybe puttour dates or something in in the description
(49:15):
and therefore sort of not only providea personal opinion, but also for the
opportunity for people to go and maketheir own opinions. So, yeah,
it's a scary question. Question,it's a scary question. What would it
take for you to start podcasting?That's an excellent question. So, as
(49:37):
you say, and I highly believeyou don't, you don't podcast for the
money. I'm sure that I knowthere are those that get money from podcasting,
but you don't start a podcast formoney, So it wouldn't. Um,
it wouldn't be if I'd reach someweird financial goal or listenership, which
is something else we discussed earlier.UM, I think it would be.
(49:58):
It would have to take something inmy personal life to potentially sort of say,
look, you don't have the timeto dedicate to this anymore, or
I think that would. I thinkit would have to be something in my
personal life that will bring it toa close. I've met so many fantastic
people, yourself included. Why wouldI want to cut myself off from a
(50:21):
new community, new minds, newideas, new takes on the world for
me to understand and process unless somethingstepped in and required me to cut that
off, and I would have tobe quite extreme. And you are the
what did It's that game master inyour system? So in City and Missed
(50:45):
it uses the master of ceremony ceremonies. It is the same as a game
master or a dune your master,depending on your system. It's just the
facilitator. It's just got a differenttitle. How Come you were the facilitator
of your like was it? Howdid you choose that? I fell into
the forever gm DM sort of role. I didn't fall into it. I
(51:08):
kind of chose it in many respects. So when we first started playing,
a friend of mine was was theDungeon Master. We were playing D and
D fifth Edition. He was introducingus back into the system. That's where
Snyder's returned formed. As the groupsort of got around the table and it
got to the point where he turnedto me and said, I'm enjoying this,
(51:31):
but I want to I want toplay. I want to be a
single character. And I turned aroundand said, well, I'm joining this.
I wouldn't mind learning the Dungeon Masterinside of stuff. And we basically
just kind of swapped places, andthen I managed to sort of lodge myself
in behind the game master screen andkind of went with it and sort of
(51:53):
maintained that desire to not just playone character, which I do love playing
characters in their singularity and sort ofgoing on one shots and things like that
or other people's shows that I've beenlucky enough to guess on. But there's
something about being able to it mightbe a control thing I don't know you're
(52:15):
the psychologist. Yeah, manipulate theworld of the environment and take on multiple
roles, but only for a shortperiod. So the players may enter a
bar, for example, and Icould be the bartender, or I could
be the wait starf or I couldbe the door person, or I could
be the person off the street,or the cat, or it doesn't matter.
(52:37):
I can set a fire in thecorner. I could put a fire
in the fireplace. I can dropthe chandelier from the ceiling that wasn't there
ten minutes ago, but I neededa dramatic moment. I can start fights,
or I can instigate consensual romances withinthe group. Again, that all
comes down to safety tools and calibrationtours with the group. But I can.
(53:00):
I can do all of this whilestill being a player, while still
facilitating the fun of myself and theothers at the table, and if we're
recording it for the podcast, hopefullythose that are listening beyond our computer screens
and Discord browsers and servers and things. So yeah, that's how I managed
to lock myself into the master ofCeremonies for City and missed. I chose
(53:22):
this fate upon myself and I alwayssays a sort of last question, and
unless you have any other things toadd, in which case you feel free.
But when you were starting out,was there a specific piece of advice
that was really helpful or is therea specific piece of a place that you
give to new podcasters? To newpodcasters, don't rush to get your first
(53:50):
episode out, But on the flipside of that, don't wait forever to
publish your first episode. If youcan get a couple sort of recorded,
edited and ready to lease that youare majoritatively happy with, then release.
And the more you record, themore you can learn from each one and
refine your process. But if you'dnever released your first episode, you're not
(54:14):
a podcaster, and if you don'thave some care over your episodes, you
may not sort of be happy withthe product you put out. So take
a little bit of time with them, but don't wait forever. The concept
(54:36):
of having that balance, like thelast point he makes there, wait long
enough before you put out your firstepisode, but don't make too long,
or the balance between speakers and aconversation and the balance between how much time
do you give it before you justgive in and press press published and say
(55:00):
it's good enough, you know,but then going to the rest of your
life and having a life that isnot solely podcasting, solely work, solely
any one thing that's hard. It'shard work, and I think it's I
think it's very important. So Adam, thank you so much for coming to
(55:21):
play. It was wonderful to getto know you, and I'm looking forward
to finding out if you ever endup starting some of those seven hundred other
projects that we all think about whenwe imagine ourselves to have the time and
come back and play anytime you'd like. Thank you guys for listening, for
hanging in there. I'm doing okay, doing okay. My health is stabilized
(55:50):
and it's just a matter of keepingit that way. So you know,
if you if you're into knocking onwood or crossing fingers, go ahead and
do that for me, which becauseI could use all the vibes I could
get. I will be back fairlysoon with a really interesting guy that I
met through a mutual friend and hehas a really fantastic backstory and I'm looking
(56:16):
forward to you hearing that. Sosometime in the next couple of days or
so, you know how it goesin the meantime, please take care of
you. You matter who wo
This is Valence, a Laaren engineeringlead lunar mining seeking urgent status update on
well Earth Jacob, a science fictionaudio drama. Nothing has been heard from
(00:22):
the Mars colony since before Earth wentsilent. Maybe uh, maybe they all
died too, and all I willfind is their bolts. I could be
the last last human. I cannotstay thrust, Jacob, could you could
(00:46):
you prepare the shuttle affirmative long orshort range journey? Oh? Long,
very long? They come? Ian you get? How may I have
the pleasure of addressing you? It'schicker chaka Russian for seagull, called sign
(01:08):
of Russian cosmonauta Valentina Tereshkova, thefirst earth woman in space. Yes,
by my mother gave me that name. Mmm. Probably time you got to
know some non human people. Ohyou mean like you? Yes, I
am a delightful acquaintance. I yes, I'm sure you are. You've frightened
(01:38):
her, Ah, she'll get overit. She has other things on her
mind checker. For more information,please visit y t u K pod dot
com slash checker. That'sh ai Ka repeat priority communication to moonbase. Get
(02:07):
back to me and tell me thisis just a glitch. All right.
Please this podcast involves topics such asviolence, sex, and mental illness.
If this might disturb you or thosearound you, please reconsider it's okay.
Privacy and confidentiality have been protected,with personal information removed when possible. If
(02:30):
you ever feel unsafe or suicidal,please call your local crisis center, emergency
services, or national hotline. Inthe United States, the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline is eight hundred two seven threeeight two five five. That's eight hundred
two seven three eight two five fiveyou matter. Hey, this is K
(03:00):
eight. I feel like I've saidit lots of times before in different ways,
but that has some weight to it. I think if I say it
more than once, I probably reallymean it. That there's a lot of
parallels between podcasting and real life.There's ways to do it in ways not
(03:24):
to and better approaches and less successfulapproaches, and you meet people that are
really fantastic, and then there's otherpeople you just try not to talk about,
you know what I'm saying, Andso sometimes when I have these recordings
with other podcasters, I just I'mdelighted all over again by Yeah, you
(03:49):
get it, you get it,you hear me. Even when It's someone
who before recording, I'd never listento his show. My queue is a
thousand miles long, and I've beenstupid sick this year, so I was
like, yeah, let's just record, let's go, let's go to be
fine, it'd be great. Andit turns out I was right, it
(04:12):
was fine. It was great.So this is Adam. He runs a
kind of hybrid tabletop role playing andreviews and creator interview type set up called
Snyder's Return, and we just wecrossed paths in the weird way that podcasters
(04:33):
do, and I was like,oh yeah, I like usually to listen
to at least some of somebody's stuffbefore they come on my show. And
then February hit and February twenty twentythree was when I started to get super
sick, and so the end theresult was that I hadn't listened to a
(04:56):
single second. And yet he's fantasticand we have a ton in common,
and there's just there are so manyparallels between the different genres of podcasting,
in between podcasting in just living life. Are you sure you really want to
know? This is ignorance? Wasbliss? I'm Adam Powell. I am
(05:53):
the lead interviewer, games master andeditor for Snyder's Return, which is a
UK based TTRPG or tabletop role playinggame podcast and YouTube channel. It's a
pleasure to be here. I'm delightedto talk with you. So, I
mean, I think people have heardpeople have heard other other gamers on my
(06:14):
show, But occasionally I still getasked, even though we're kind of well
into the podcasting era and well intothe knowing what actual players? What do
you tell people when they're like,why would I want to listen to somebody
else to play games? Why wouldyou want to listen? So it's in
many respects, it's like wanting whywould you listen to someone else read an
audiobook? Why would you not justread the words off the page. You
(06:35):
want to live the experience, Youwant to feel it, you want to
be immersed in it. The differencebetween an audio drama and actual players the
use of dice to act as arandomizer, a variable within the story,
and this creates moments of tension anddrama. So by listening and engaging with
an actual player above say an audiobookon audio drama, you get to sense
(06:59):
that exhilaration or frustration when the roleof a dice. Depending on the system,
the role of a dice changes theebb and flow of the story and
you're drawn in. You want tofeel that anticipation. You want to be
there with the character, with theplayer, with the group as a whole.
(07:20):
So listening to an actual play canreally be an oddly bonding experience to
the content creators that are making thesestories and putting them out for all of
us to enjoy. What system doyou use? So our current show on
Snyder's Return is called Meddaller's Monsters andMadment and it uses the sun Evoak system
(07:45):
called City of Mist. City Mistis a powered by the Apocalypse or a
two D six controlled system which fusesthe idea of having an everyday, maybe
mundane existence, will also being touchedby a mythological or supernatural force that can
(08:07):
be woven into the world and yethidden from the populace. It's it's sort
of almost Superhero meets Netflix meets theX Files. I guess there's an odd
blend of touchstones. So people whohave listened to our show for a while
are familiar with I've had a coupleof cast members from The Kris Show on
(08:31):
and they use Monster of the Week, and so that's sort of a parallel,
right, that's a similar two Dsix D six Yes, the type
of die that you use playing monopolyor parties. You, yeah, exactly,
that a standard sort of six sidedgaming dice. And obviously there are
there's a whole raft of games thatuse different shapes and numbered sided dice.
(08:54):
But for our current show, wedecided to go with the Team miss system,
which, much like the Kid shows, Monster of the Week is,
as you say, a two sided, two six sided dice game with modifiers.
And so, what made you chooseCity of Missed for Snyder's return,
(09:16):
Like, is there something that drewyou do it? And you paid it
before? The concept pretty much sortof instigated the desire to play in and
try out the characters, the Pregeneratorcharacters again, the starter set sort of
typify what the game is about,a mixture of mundane and supernatural or mythological,
(09:41):
and that sort of fired the imaginationof myself and the players I was
running or I am running the gamefour and from there we went in to
create our own characters. The systemis very straightforward. It uses the two
D six plus what's known as tagsto modify the dice role. But these
tags and need positive or negative sothat it allows for a greater variance in
(10:03):
their use through gameplay. So havinga solid mechanic which is easy to learn
and fun to play, this mixtureof sort of hidden lives and yet or
inspiring power available to the players andmyself as the MC with respect to this
system just really sort of engaged usas a group. The pre written adventures
(10:30):
that I've been sort of weaving together, it just all ties together and made
an experience that we were happy andexcited to produce for others to enjoy.
Who is Snyder So it's not relatedto Zack Snyder or anything like that.
It's actually our name comes from whenI first started learning TTRPGs as a fully
(10:54):
grown adult in my thirties, whenwe gathered around the table to play at
work. Funnily enough, one ofthe snacks peabody is Snyders of hanover the
pretzel pieces. So every time wegot back together, Snyder's returned, and
then we just cut the extra bitoff to Snyder's return and it's amazing.
(11:16):
I adore that. Again, It'sjust another part of the bonding experience that
has brought myself and so many peopletogether as players and content creators for TTRPGs.
That is deep lore right there.I really appreciate that mightily. That's
wonderful. So I come from initiallya background in true crime, okay,
(11:43):
which I'm trying to be diplomatic andI often fail at this and also don't
care please go with it, butthe true crime community is problematic in many
ways. It tends to be voyeuristic, con sensationalistic, and so it has
to be handled carefully because you're literallyprofiting off someone else's pain and so you
(12:05):
have to be careful with it.And there's people who are you know,
it's it's tragedy porn right. Andalso I joined because I thought, what
can I bring to the table Becausethere's enough people out there doing narratives of
a crime and it's follow up andwhatever, and so I don't need to
do that. I don't need torepeat what other people have already done.
(12:28):
So what can I bring? Well, what I can bring is to humanize
both sides. Both the victim andthe perpetrator are all human beings. And
if we don't understand the perpetrator,how are we possibly going to do anything
to make any progress in the world. And I was at a conference and
(12:48):
I had someone tell me that Iwasn't true crime enough to call myself true
crime, and so at first myanswer included a lot of explicitives, but
then you're helpfully, I didn't speakthem out loud because it was literally in
the middle of this, like inthe middle of the Khan, like on
this ballroom floor, and so Ididn't say anything. Then I just sort
(13:11):
of thank you for your input ina very up your sort of way.
And then later I thought about it, and I was like, Okay,
that was some cute gate keeping there, rather than fight, like you can
die on this hill, at leastyou'll be dead, right like that was
sort of my feeling, And soI decided to put back the lens and
decide, aren't you going to talkto anybody? I just because that's what
I want as connection with people aroundthe world. But there's a lot of
(13:35):
drama and angst and backstabbing and weirdnessin the true crime community still now to
this day, and I can't tellbecause I'm kind of coming from the outside
a little bit. Does do yousee that happen in the actual play?
Community. I have to say oneof the things that helped us get in
(13:58):
initially because like many people, we'vebeen inspired to take on a hobby or
a passion and sort of try andcarry it forward for ourselves and and sort
of keep it going for ourselves andothers. When we first started, we
reached out to established podcasters in theTTRPG community, and rather than get snubbed
as being the little person or thenew the new person on the block,
(14:22):
they were supportive. They provided recommendationsfor recording software, they you know,
how to do basic edits, whoto reach out to for further advice if
we wanted to sort of carry on. And from there they supported us,
and we've supported them, and thenwe've supported others who have just started their
(14:43):
journey, and they've supported others,and there's very much more. Maybe because
we're so niche in that respect,there's a lot of support for each other.
It's the same, slightly different,but the same for actual place streams
on Twitter, chare YouTube. Becausethe community is so small, everybody has
not has to Everybody chooses to supporteach other so we all grow together.
(15:09):
One of the great phrases mantras,maybe is a better word that one of
my guests. I don't know ifthey came up with it or just best
aligned it with what we're going through. But a rising tide lifts or ships.
So you don't want to sort ofput people down. You don't want
to climb on people to try andput yourself ahead, because you stick out
(15:33):
like the proverbial saw thumb, andpeople then won't associate with you. It's
not so much they're being horrible,but if you're seeing to be putting down
other creators, then why would thiscreator want to help you when they could
help other creator? So in thehow we've been doing this, Oh,
(15:54):
that's a good question. Three threefour years we've been sort of put in
the show together and podcasting, wehave supported and been supported by so many
fantastic content creators and podcasters in theTTRPG community that it inspires us to now
reach out to shows and say,would you like to swap promotions? You
(16:15):
know, there's no charge, there'sno obligation. If you send us yours,
I'll put it on on our feed. And if I send you ours
and you don't like it or itdoesn't align with your show sensibilities for reasons
that you know, care to matterto you and your your listeners, then
(16:37):
then don't use it. It's totallyfine, and you know, we get
a good response for that. We'vehad guests come on, I've spoken personally
through the interview side and showed tosome of the biggest I guess biggest names
in the TTRPG community with respect tocontent creation and actual place shows and things
(16:59):
like that. Because people are keento support each other. We understand that
a certain amount of creators passing aroundthe same ten dollars is a sort of
current joke is not going to sustainthe hobby for long. But if we
can bring other people and make itwelcoming, grow the community together, then
everybody benefits. There can be ten, twenty thirty, forty fifty of the
(17:22):
same TTRPG interview shows, but eachone is different. Each one brings something
different, a new perspective, somethingto offer that maybe our show doesn't.
We have a very like your show, Kate is very much more conversational with
people working through kickstarters or bringing showsor advice to dms and gems, whereas
(17:45):
other shows may concentrate more on theDMGM side of things, or may concentrate
more on specific systems. So thereis room in this niche for all of
us, and we support each andone because I don't know, just because
we too, because we care foreach other in that respect, we respect
(18:07):
and trust each other because you're tryingto not be a dick. Yeah,
it's the short answer. Yes,yeah, yeah, I followed you can
twenty minutes of no, not atall. But that's that's where it is,
and that's I'm seeing a little bitmore of that in true crime as
time goes on and as people realizeif I can get someone to listen to
(18:29):
app podcast, even if they're notlistening to mine, they're now in the
area. They're now in listening toa form of media that they weren't before,
which means they may bring somebody elsealong for me. Or maybe I'm
not right for them. That's okayif I'm not right for everyone. But
if I get to know you,then I can direct you towards my friends.
(18:52):
I've made the closest friends of mylife through this, and some of
them I'm like, you know what, you couldn't pay me to listen to
your show, but I adore youas a human and so absolutely let me
need to know you more so thatI can accurately direct people your way.
Yeah, I think there's an unspokenbond of understanding of how much work actually
(19:15):
goes into the back end of podcasts. And again the same applies for streams
and video content creators on platforms likeYouTube, that we know how much work
goes into putting into each episode.And therefore, as you say, while
my show might not be for you, I could. I could send you
just five or six others and knowthat they are quality shows, and they
(19:37):
may send two or three back inmy direction, not because we're trying to
you know, favor favor, butjust because we know how each other works
and what each others can provide tolisteners out there. Well, I had
that an interesting experience, and itwas it happened to be in twenty and
(19:59):
eighteen where I had the one conwhere I had somebody told me I wasn't
crimy enough, and I was like, okay, like look, I've literally
testified in court and you don't knowwhere the nearest prison is to your house,
so thanks. So that was athing that happened, and I you
know, I know who it was. I never listened to their show with
the prior because I was turned offby the name of their show, which
(20:26):
I'm not going to say here becausesomebody maybe somebody's favorite show and good for
them, but it was basically thatthat leaning into that tragedy porn thing and
it just wasn't for me. Andthen about three months after that, there
was a conference for audio drama,which I don't have. I've taken part
in some, I've done some voiceacting, but I don't have an audio
(20:49):
drama but he was being held.The conference is being held at my eldest
kids college, so I kind ofhave to go, you know, you
have to support the kid and supportthe medium whatever. And a friend learned
that I was going to be thereand said, would you run a table
for my show? I was like, sure, I mean that way,
(21:11):
I know I have a place tosit. Yeah, right, And I
ended up kind of being the chauffeurfor a bunch of people, and one
other creator stayed at my house thatweekend rather than paying for a motel room
or whatever. So it was prettyfunny all around. And it's so much
easier to hype somebody else's work thanmy own, Like when people say,
(21:33):
like, oh, why should Ilisten to my show? I'm like,
I don't know, why should Isten to their show? Oh, let
me tell you fifteen reasons why it'samazing because there's not that that self doubt
involved. You can just focus onthe positive. And that was such a
sort of learning experience for me anda lightbulb moment of people don't need to
(21:56):
hear me put myself down, andpeople really don't need to hear me put
anybody else down. And there's apower and I think I use that word
correctly, that there's a power tohyping work, whether it's my own and
if I can't hype my own,hype somebody else's and it just it feels
(22:17):
good to point out, like thisis an amazing human being and they create
amazing work. Goal listen to theirstuff. Yeah, definitely, definitely.
I think I think you're right withthe power. While it might not be
sort of containable in a battery ora capacity or any kind of electrical circuit,
(22:37):
it is tangible in that sense thatyou can you can feel it,
you can radiate it, and youcan receive it as well. When when
communities or shows or just individuals worktogether or at least don't work against each
other in that respect. There's justnot enough time in the day to me
(23:00):
to gate keep other people or putother people down. And I understand that
some people enjoy that, okay,Like all that does is tell me give
them a wide berth, because ifthey're speaking that way about another creative,
then very likely they're speaking in thatway about me. And I may earn't
it like fair. I let's notpretend I'm perfect in any sense, but
(23:21):
overall it was. It was FredRogers, you know, mister Rogers,
who talked about when things are goingbad, they look for the helpers,
look for the people who run tothe tragedy rather than away from it.
And this is a smaller, saferversion of that right of look for the
positive people, the ones who say, yeah, come on my show,
(23:41):
Yeah, let's talk about this.Do you want to grab twenty minutes on
zoom so I can walk you throughhow to do a thing or whatever?
Like? Those are the people thatare invaluable. It's very much, so
very much. And the more ofthose people and the more we can be
included in those people where possible,that the better, not just our respective
(24:06):
nieces, but podcasting and content creationand a community society becomes. We've sort
of gone from a very sort ofpigeon holds the wrong phrase but very sort
of on topic to to sort ofa much broader sense of respect for one
(24:29):
another. And I think that isimportant as we sort of zero back in
on primarily podcasting. Like you've beenso generous in offering me to come on
your show, and I would neverthought that would have been a case six
months, a year, two yearsago. Um, so you know,
(24:52):
and with with your good self hostingme, I will be able to support
your show, and then others willfind your show and they will support you,
and they'll support and it just Iwouldn't say it's self perpetuating, but
it's it's only a benefit. Really. Well, you know what, in
my head, I'm already and I'mnot going to say it on an Arab
because I don't want to you inthe spot or them in the spot,
(25:14):
but I'm already thinking of like threepeople were like, oh, you should
have these people on your show becausethey're amazing, And that's just that's how
I think. And I think that'sthere's a fundamental how do you think about
humanity? Maybe society maybe you knowyou use the word society, that maybe
be the right word. Like I'man organizer, I'm community oriented. I
(25:37):
think about not what can I dofor you? Always, because sometimes I
think I think there's also it's importantfor people to ask. It's important for
people to identify their own needs ratherthan for me to sort of talk down
to people and say, well,here's what you need to do. Differently,
but somebody comes to me and says, can I come on your show?
Like I actually I tell people thison the regulars that I have on
(26:00):
my phone a no list, andit's only about ten or twenty people.
I don't know, it's been awhile since I've counted, but there's a
hand there's there's some number of people, a couple of handsful of people that
I do not want to support becauseI don't appreciate attitudes they have espoused in
(26:22):
other areas or interactions I've I've watched, for instance, people who belittle new
podcasters, people who make rape chokeson social media, people who don't show.
When you have a kind of likeone no show, no big deal,
everybody has life happened. But whenyou have three no shows, sorry,
(26:44):
you're on the no list. That'show it's at, you know.
And I have to have that becauseI'm so prone to, yeah, come
on, come play, and Idon't care if you've got one show or
five hundred shows each and so oneof the things that it doesn't irritate me.
That's not the right word exactly,but I get a chill, I
(27:06):
get a little I'm demonstrating with peoplewho can hear it, but it'sn't feeling.
Is if I have somebody say,oh, you got that person that's
a good get, that's a bigname, you know, and I'm like,
we are, we just maybe don'tknow it yet. That's fair.
That's fair, you know. Andthey gotta struct somewhere where else are you
going to how how are you goingto become a good get without the opportunity
(27:29):
to tell your story? Yeah,that's it's very fair. So I guess
not not the flip side of that, but but you know, we we
and not understanding that the full layoutof the true crime side of podcasting,
but I know for the TTRPG side, there are those that are that are
(27:52):
put on pedestals and and they arethe ones you want to aspire to welcome
it into the show, but we'realso back full of their time, so
we are proud of ourselves when weget them. But again, we don't
try and put down others if theyhave others or so, Yeah, I
can certainly see where you're coming from, and that support still sort of runs
(28:15):
through in the background, as I'vehad it a couple of times where I've
had someone on my show and saidto a fellow podcast that they mentioned when
the recording and finished that they werethey were free and looking for others.
So I mentioned your show, Ihope you I hope you're happy with that,
and they were like perfect, Iwas going to reach out anyway,
(28:36):
and that's just confirmed my intention andthings like that. So there is there
are so many ways that we cansupport and not over over egg. I've
gone totally weird with that not overdoit and and sort of put each other
down by trying to self congratulate ourselvesin that respect. Well sure, and
(28:59):
you know, all right fair onthe other side of things, like I
sort of can't. I used tobefore Twitter was accesspool, because I mean,
I guess it's always been accessedpol butit's really access pool now. But
I used to sort of spend moretime trolling Twitter for new podcasters, for
people who were just starting out,to sort of reach out and be like,
(29:22):
hey, is there any way Ican help, Because when I was
starting out, that was a bigdeal to have people talk to me and
not necessarily give me pointers, butjust remind me like, yeah, you're
doing well, you're doing what youhit published. That's a success. And
recently I've had two people say tome, you know you're you're reaching out
to me early on your encouragement Ithink helped me keep going. And I
(29:48):
remember being like that means more tome than the times when I've gotten the
household names on my shove, becauselike one of them are Double has become
a household show now and so it'slike cool that, like we got to
admit there's something cool about having aa role in this person's success. I
(30:11):
don't I don't take credit. Theydid it. They're they're the ones that
are magical. But sometimes we allneed that cheerleading in the background. And
on the flipside, like there arepeople that they're just kind of assholes.
There's no there's no way around that, and all I can do is sort
of no, thank you, Yeah, that's fair, I mean unfortunate,
(30:36):
though. We have to have thesepeople in the world because that makes us
appreciate those who are genuine and niceand good and supportive and all those sorts
of things. So I guess balanceis important, right, even though they're
assholes. Now, okay, doyou have any good like asshole stories?
(31:00):
We're just going to steer clear therebecause I always want to know, but
that you don't have to think.I think I would say I've been I've
been very lucky. I've I've sortof landed on my feet with with the
guests and things, and you know, I have wanted things to go other
ways. I've tried to. I'vealways tried to do too much at at
times and try and over promise andoccasionally under under deliver from my own standards.
(31:26):
Um, you know, coming upwith with episodes and games and an
interview ideas and and sort of chasingthrough maybe too many streams of consciousness at
the same time has has come backto haunt me somewhat. But um,
you know, I've been lucky withthe guests I've had, with the way
(31:48):
the podcast has gone and continues togo. If I could have more hours
in the day, I would probablyprocrastinate and waste them anyway. But you
know, I edit when I can, and I try and sit down and
knuckle down and sort of edit theepisodes down as regularly and as to the
(32:08):
standard I expected myself. Again,not holding them up against other shows,
because we all do. We allhave our own processes, we all use
different equipment, even though we're achievingthe same thing. It's what I want
for myself, for my for theshow to put out for people to enjoy.
So yeah, more time would bemore wasted time. Yeah, I
(32:31):
get it, I do. Ido get it, and you know,
and I complain about the true crimecommunity. Meanwhile I'm in the background working
on a narrative true crime show.So like, I get it, I
get it. I just want toget better, Like I want to prove
that because there are shows out thereto do it well, and so I'm
(32:53):
like, if they can do itwell, I can do it well.
That's my goal. And so fairy'sfair. It's just I'm fully aware of
my own hypocrisy. There. It'sfun, it's fine, it's fine.
Well, I was going to saythat there's an element of again, jealousy
is the right word, and yetthe wrong word. Listening to other podcasts
(33:15):
and some that I really enjoy,and I hear the way they do the
background music or the sound effects,or the way they break their episodes down
or do intros, or the waythey have guests and all this sort of
stuff. I'm like, I wantto do that. I want to be
like you, But I realize itcan't be like you because I've got to
do me and what I'm doing isn'twrong. But I so wish I could
(33:37):
be more like you in just afew ways, and it helps drive me
forward. But I know I'm nevergoing to achieve that mark because every time
I probably reach it, I thenpush it away further myself. It's a
very strange, ongoing sort of relationshipI have with podcasting. I don't know
how you sort of feel about yourown show as you edit and even subconsciously
(34:02):
compare it to others, if yousort of listened to a few others in
your in your area. But Ikeep wanting to hit that professional mark that
I probably don't have the kit forat the moment. I probably don't have
the time for at the moment.I mentioned procrastinating before, but I still
hear it, and I still wantto strive to get as close as I
(34:23):
can, So a little bit ofenvy helps drive my desire in that respect,
Do you listen to shows that arein different genres from yours? When
I find time, I try anddva out, But between a full time
(34:44):
job and the podcasting and the childcareof responsibilities, I somehow time out.
We're putting headphones in and listening toother shows too often, So I just
kind of have a core three orfour. And then when I can,
most of the times from recommendations frommy friends in the podcast community, because
(35:07):
they're who I seem to spend themost time with, I will then try
and listen to other podcasts. Haveyou found value in listening to podcasts outside
of your genre? Myself, hugevalue, And that's as much because so
I experienced a traumatic brain injury intwenty ten, and for a while my
(35:30):
world got very small. I gotvery limited in how I could think and
what I could think about. AndI just I'm used to being a smart
girl, you know what I mean. Like I was always a smart kid
growing up, and suddenly I wasn'tsuddenly, Like there was a while where
I had complete word aphasia, whichis when you don't have words, and
(35:52):
I still if I'm tired or I'mstressed. I had difficulty with it for
a while. I couldn't think interms of fiction, like everything was real
to me, everything was nonfiction tome. And so when I started this
in new podcast, I started withtrue crime because I knew true crime.
I understood it, and so Iwrote for another show for a little bit.
(36:16):
I guessed it a few times,and then I sort of said on
my couch and moped because nobody washeaving me on as a guest. That's
because they didn't know I existed there. And so I thought, well,
I'll start a show and it'll befive or ten episodes, and I'll explain
what forensic psychology is and it's not, and then we'll be done. And
here we are five years later.You know, it's an addiction, it
(36:39):
is. I fully owned this.You know what is one of the first
things I did i got into thehospital is I really stood episode, Like
that's the thing. And so aftera little while in the podcast world,
right after I was I had thegatekeeping experience happened. I was talking to
a friend of mine who hated crimeand would not listen to any of it,
(37:01):
but who was also a podcaster,and I said, okay. His
his genre was actual play, okay, and I was like, okay,
give me a show and I willlisten. Give me one of the ends,
so you know, so because thereare some that keep going, keep
going and keep going, and whichis wonderful of them, but I needed
my first one to be one thatended. So I was like, give
(37:21):
me one the ends, but giveme a show, and I will listen
from start to finish and we'll see. And it turned out it was fantastic.
It was such a good experience becauseit was so it was it was
a shadow run game, okay,so it didn't remotely resemble normal society as
(37:43):
we know it certainly not anything thatI live in, and that really helped
prove to me, like I canfollow this. I get this. And
then I started listening to some audiodramas and I started realizing pretty quickly like
what I could and could not dobecause also, by the way, I'm
deaf, and so everything I listenedto is at one hundred percent all the
(38:06):
time, and so I learned,for instance, if you have music in
the background, yeah, about halfof those shows I simply can't listen to.
The music has to be super quietbecause if it interferes, and if
it's in the same tonal range asthe speech. And these are things I
learned about myself. And I learnedto start owning the fact that, yes,
you can be a podcaster who isdeaf, and you can listen to
(38:29):
podcasts when you were deaf, becausedeaf isn't an on off switch, and
learning to own that about myself.And after the traumatic brain injury, I
developed ADHD because I have a lesiondirectly on my right frontal lobe, which
is where executive functioning sits. Andso the feeling of you know, knowing
(38:50):
other podcasters who do this, whohave ADHD, in the feeling of I
can accomplish something, it all,all of those are facets of start to
feel smart again and smart, startingto have connections again with other people.
I've been on permanent disabilities since twentyfourteen because I broke me back. Don't
do that, and it's such anisolating experience for a while, But then
(39:15):
you make these connections and you realizeI still have value in the world,
I still have things. So andthat's both from listening and from creating,
and it's been a very powerful thing. And some of the shows that I've
really enjoyed are shows that I neverwould have chosen on my own, but
somebody recommended them or a friend createdthem, and I was like, okay,
(39:38):
well I guess and it's it's literallylike I'm not overstating. I used
to be a little not ashamed,but okay, we'll go with it.
I used to be a little ashamedor overwhelmed or something. It felt silly
to say podcasting had changed my life, but unquestionably podcasting has changed my life.
(39:58):
Yeah, for sure. So withthis change in your life through well
following life circumstances, situations, happenings, and occurrences and podcasting, where are
you taking your show? Do youhave an end goal in sight? Or
are you sort of going until thegoing is no longer good in that respect
(40:22):
from either a listenership or a personalstandpoint. Well, part of the entert
to that is I don't care aboutlistenership. I wanted I told you before
we started recording that in about theone year mark, I had a personal
change that impacted how I use socialmedia and how I function. Basically,
(40:46):
I left the show for a coupleof months and when I came back,
long time listeners know, it's whenmy dad died. And when I came
back, I was like, whatam I going to do differently? And
I decided one of the things I'mgoing to do it differently other than not
use Instagram anymore, was I'm goingto stop checking my my stats, my
analytics, because that would stress meout. I would worry about is this
(41:12):
this episode got fewer downloads than thatone? Does that mean it's not as
good is the other one? Orshould I would stop? I just had
to stop that because that's to me. To me, the value in each
episode is free standing, and thedownloads are not a good reflection. You
know, I'll get a large numberof downloads just because somebody is famous,
(41:35):
but that doesn't mean it's a betterepisode than one that only has one person
listening, you know what I mean? And so I listenership is not really
the thing. I'm going to keepgoing as long as it is more fun
than stress. That's my metric.And you know, I've had two secondary
(41:57):
shows that have I've Pride and Fadedpod Fade is a real thing, both
of which started with a very specificstated goal and concept. But over time,
and I'm not sure if it's mypersonality or their personalities or just bad
(42:21):
habits or whatever, but they startedto feel like Ignorance was a bliss two
point zero. And it's like,I'm already doing ignorance is bliss. I
don't need another one. And aswell, one of my co hosts had
I guess both of them in theirway had personal issues and had to step
away. And so I've decided thatany other shows I do, if I'm
(42:43):
in charge, they have to beextraordinarily different. And so when I talk
about having a narrative true crime show, it's going to be scripted. It's
going to be co written. I'mnot sure right now whether we're both going
to narrate it or whether it's justgoing to be my voice, but it's
going to be written down down beforeI say a word. That's that's wildly
different. Like I have an audiobookout and that was a very very different
(43:07):
experience, which I never would havehad the opportunity to do except the author
came on my show, you know. And so that's what I'm doing,
is using like and keeping it veryopen and as long as it stays more
fun stress, and as long asI keep meeting people where I'm like,
yeah, this is why I dothe thing, I'm going to keep doing
the thing. Yeah, definitely,i'd love to you mentioned there about sort
(43:30):
of it's voice arte and recording anaudiobook. I'd eventually love to get into
the position where I could. I'vebeen part of a couple of audio dramas,
but do it more consistently and moreprofessionally. But with the way my
work works, unfortunately, I can'tdedicate time to specific projects like that.
(43:53):
So people are like, yo,why don't you come and be on here
or come and do this over along extended period, And then I look
at the work schedule and then nowit's going to change in a few months
and I'm like, I can't.I can't. It literally breaks me.
I can't, but I still enjoythe process. So yeah, the audiobooks
(44:15):
on this kind side of stuff,I'd love to pick your brains about at
some point to sort of understand andget into that side of stuff on my
own merit obviously not just trying tocoast on your hotels kind of thing,
but yeah, I mean, ifI have coaches to coast and you're welcome
to coast on them. You know, it's a I just very recently had
(44:38):
a second author come on who wasinterested in having an audiobook created, and
I was like, you know,I could do it, but I don't
think you want a female voice forit. It doesn't feel right. And
I immediately thought of email podcaster andI'm like, why don't let me talk
(44:59):
to him because I don't want toput them on the spot. And now
they're doing it. They're they're creatingthis audio book. And you know,
like anything with podcasting, people lookat podcasting for the most part and they're
like, oh, that's not whereyou make money, and it's true,
like it's not a money making opportunity. And with audiobooks you have to have
(45:20):
proof of concept, so you haveto do in my opinion, you have
to be prepared to do at leastone or two for free to prove that
you can and will and that youknow that you're good for it basically,
and for me, because I'm deafand because I have kids and kids are
loud and they ruin everything. Idid the whole book in like two and
(45:45):
a half days. Wow, thereading part, and then I took longer
on the editing, but I didit all at once because I can't really
hear my own pitch and tenor andfor an audiobook, you want to maintain
pacing through the whole thing. Sofor me, it was realistically like a
three day project and then another,however many days to do the editing and
(46:08):
cleaning it up and uploading it.And so I'm actually going to be doing
her second book coming up here,and and so it's it's things like that.
It's it's it's dangerous to do thingsfor free. You want to be
careful what you promise and what youdon't like. She knows that I'm not
yours forever for free, no matterwhat. Yeah, but there are circumstances
(46:35):
that we all know that this isn'tgoing to be a forever thing anyway.
Like she's she's done writing after thissecond book. And so I'm like,
all right, well, find itmakes most sense for you to have the
same voice for your two books.And it's someone I know very well.
And so my answer is go aheadand try and pay me. I dare
you, you know. But butthat's the thing is you get your foot
in the door, you get oneone author who would like their book read
(46:59):
as an audio book but hasn't thoughtabout it, doesn't have the setup,
doesn't know how to do the process, and so you're like, hey,
hey, hey, what if Iread your book and you shop you know,
because it's not shopping it around,it's just them uploading it to audible.
Basically there's a process. But I'mlike, hey, you know,
(47:21):
I could um, you know,do that thing that you know, just
as a thought. Yeah, Andit's and that's a hard thing, you
know. Selling yourself is difficult,like you're talking about earlier. But having
been in the podcasting world for severalyears, I've got the confidence to be
like, look, if you sayno, it's it's no big But I
(47:42):
think I can do this. Let'stry it. It's fair if you had
to create a podcast in a differentgenre, where would you go. Let's
pretend you've got infinite money and infinitetime, and also the kids are quiet.
I well, I am enjoying andtherefore would like to invest more time.
(48:06):
Maybe not more time. I enjoyit and therefore would like would potentially
god m rambling now because I'm nervous. I like country music, so I
would potentially go still stick with maybethe interview route because I've become quite comfortable.
But maybe I'm too comfortable in that. But I like country music,
(48:27):
so it might be country music centered, but not necessarily I don't know that
would be the genre. Maybe likereview type thing or more of an introduction
type thing. Oh see, nowwe're getting into specifics. Maybe reviews,
Maybe reviews give a feedback were atthe moment I for the TTPG interviews,
(48:50):
you know, I get the guestson and I learn more about them and
their products and their creations and whatthey're doing in the community and all that
sort of stuff. It'd be nicealmost flipped that on its head and listen
to an album or or some ora performance and then give a feedback and
be able to sort of maybe puttour dates or something in in the description
(49:15):
and therefore sort of not only providea personal opinion, but also for the
opportunity for people to go and maketheir own opinions. So, yeah,
it's a scary question. Question,it's a scary question. What would it
take for you to start podcasting?That's an excellent question. So, as
(49:37):
you say, and I highly believeyou don't, you don't podcast for the
money. I'm sure that I knowthere are those that get money from podcasting,
but you don't start a podcast formoney, So it wouldn't. Um,
it wouldn't be if I'd reach someweird financial goal or listenership, which
is something else we discussed earlier.UM, I think it would be.
(49:58):
It would have to take something inmy personal life to potentially sort of say,
look, you don't have the timeto dedicate to this anymore, or
I think that would. I thinkit would have to be something in my
personal life that will bring it toa close. I've met so many fantastic
people, yourself included. Why wouldI want to cut myself off from a
(50:21):
new community, new minds, newideas, new takes on the world for
me to understand and process unless somethingstepped in and required me to cut that
off, and I would have tobe quite extreme. And you are the
what did It's that game master inyour system? So in City and Missed
(50:45):
it uses the master of ceremony ceremonies. It is the same as a game
master or a dune your master,depending on your system. It's just the
facilitator. It's just got a differenttitle. How Come you were the facilitator
of your like was it? Howdid you choose that? I fell into
the forever gm DM sort of role. I didn't fall into it. I
(51:08):
kind of chose it in many respects. So when we first started playing,
a friend of mine was was theDungeon Master. We were playing D and
D fifth Edition. He was introducingus back into the system. That's where
Snyder's returned formed. As the groupsort of got around the table and it
got to the point where he turnedto me and said, I'm enjoying this,
(51:31):
but I want to I want toplay. I want to be a
single character. And I turned aroundand said, well, I'm joining this.
I wouldn't mind learning the Dungeon Masterinside of stuff. And we basically
just kind of swapped places, andthen I managed to sort of lodge myself
in behind the game master screen andkind of went with it and sort of
(51:53):
maintained that desire to not just playone character, which I do love playing
characters in their singularity and sort ofgoing on one shots and things like that
or other people's shows that I've beenlucky enough to guess on. But there's
something about being able to it mightbe a control thing I don't know you're
(52:15):
the psychologist. Yeah, manipulate theworld of the environment and take on multiple
roles, but only for a shortperiod. So the players may enter a
bar, for example, and Icould be the bartender, or I could
be the wait starf or I couldbe the door person, or I could
be the person off the street,or the cat, or it doesn't matter.
(52:37):
I can set a fire in thecorner. I could put a fire
in the fireplace. I can dropthe chandelier from the ceiling that wasn't there
ten minutes ago, but I neededa dramatic moment. I can start fights,
or I can instigate consensual romances withinthe group. Again, that all
comes down to safety tools and calibrationtours with the group. But I can.
(53:00):
I can do all of this whilestill being a player, while still
facilitating the fun of myself and theothers at the table, and if we're
recording it for the podcast, hopefullythose that are listening beyond our computer screens
and Discord browsers and servers and things. So yeah, that's how I managed
to lock myself into the master ofCeremonies for City and missed. I chose
(53:22):
this fate upon myself and I alwayssays a sort of last question, and
unless you have any other things toadd, in which case you feel free.
But when you were starting out,was there a specific piece of advice
that was really helpful or is therea specific piece of a place that you
give to new podcasters? To newpodcasters, don't rush to get your first
(53:50):
episode out, But on the flipside of that, don't wait forever to
publish your first episode. If youcan get a couple sort of recorded,
edited and ready to lease that youare majoritatively happy with, then release.
And the more you record, themore you can learn from each one and
refine your process. But if you'dnever released your first episode, you're not
(54:14):
a podcaster, and if you don'thave some care over your episodes, you
may not sort of be happy withthe product you put out. So take
a little bit of time with them, but don't wait forever. The concept
(54:36):
of having that balance, like thelast point he makes there, wait long
enough before you put out your firstepisode, but don't make too long,
or the balance between speakers and aconversation and the balance between how much time
do you give it before you justgive in and press press published and say
(55:00):
it's good enough, you know,but then going to the rest of your
life and having a life that isnot solely podcasting, solely work, solely
any one thing that's hard. It'shard work, and I think it's I
think it's very important. So Adam, thank you so much for coming to
(55:21):
play. It was wonderful to getto know you, and I'm looking forward
to finding out if you ever endup starting some of those seven hundred other
projects that we all think about whenwe imagine ourselves to have the time and
come back and play anytime you'd like. Thank you guys for listening, for
hanging in there. I'm doing okay, doing okay. My health is stabilized
(55:50):
and it's just a matter of keepingit that way. So you know,
if you if you're into knocking onwood or crossing fingers, go ahead and
do that for me, which becauseI could use all the vibes I could
get. I will be back fairlysoon with a really interesting guy that I
met through a mutual friend and hehas a really fantastic backstory and I'm looking
(56:16):
forward to you hearing that. Sosometime in the next couple of days or
so, you know how it goesin the meantime, please take care of
you. You matter who wo
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