July 17, 2023 • 49 mins
Connection and belonging are tremendously important, as are the knowledge of your own value and a sense of awareness of your space in the world. So... how do you get those things?
Guest: Catherine Bell, The Awakened Company
The Enneagram Institute Type Descriptions: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions
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Promo: Witches Talking Tarot
Disclaimer: Audrey
Art: Minna
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/
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Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast
Sponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 25% off)
Sponsor: Komuso Design (code bliss15 for 15% off)
Sponsor: Horrific Hope Film Festival 2024 (code bliss24 for 15% off submission)
Guest: Catherine Bell, The Awakened Company
The Enneagram Institute Type Descriptions: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions
....................
Promo: Witches Talking Tarot
Disclaimer: Audrey
Art: Minna
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/
....................
Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast
Sponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 25% off)
Sponsor: Komuso Design (code bliss15 for 15% off)
Sponsor: Horrific Hope Film Festival 2024 (code bliss24 for 15% off submission)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hey everybody, I'm Amber and I'mMaddie and we're which is talking Tarot And
this season we've got for you ghosts, cryptids, conspiracies. Oh by,
check out what role we cast EmmaRobertson on our myth episodes this season.
Yeah, and in addition to ourmyths, we will be bringing you the
(00:27):
holidays because we may or may nothave a missed one this last season.
I guess you'll have to listen tothe last episodes to check it out,
and then catch all our new episodescoming up every Tuesday and Thursday on your
favorite podcast platforms and see us onYouTube. Come and sit with us first
fill. This podcast involves topics suchas violence, sex, and mental illness.
(00:56):
If this or difficult language might distributeor those around, don't you please
reconsider it's really okay. Privacy andconfidentiality have been protected, with personal information
removed whenever possible. If you everfeel unsafe or suicidal, Please call your
local crisis center, call emergency services, or the national hotline. In the
(01:19):
United States, the National Suicide PreventionLifeline is one eight hundred two seven three
eight two five five And please,if you know nothing else, know this
you matter, Hey, this isKate. When I record, I ask
(01:47):
my guests to do what's called acold intro, which means I just kind
of give off thumbs up, liketell people who you are and what you
do. Go. There's a coupleof reasons for that. One is that
because it's meant to be a conversation, and because I don't know what we're
going to talk about or in whatorder, I wait and I record what
(02:14):
you're hearing right now, the intro, and then the outro later after the
fact. I let it sort ofpercolate for a little while, and then
I sit down and record when I'mready to say whatever it is I want
to say about this conversation. Theother is that it's always interesting to me
(02:38):
to hear how people bring themselves tothe conversation, and it tells me what
my role is here, how muchdo I need to speak or not speak?
How do they think? How howdo they roll. It's one of
(03:00):
the ways that I use forensic psychologytechniques of a sort in podcasting. So,
for instance, sometimes I've had peoplewho have been like, yeah,
my name's Bob, and I wrotea book and that's it, and so
(03:27):
what that tells me is that Bobneeds some prompting and some support, that
Bob's either anxious or unwilling or something. Bob needs more prodding to get the
story out. Because there's a storyin there, we just have to work
(03:49):
a little harder to find it.And then on the other end of the
spectrum, I've had people where I'vesaid, go for it. Tell people
who you are and what you do, and they talk for fifteen twenty forty
five minutes straight without any prompting orany interruption from me. Usually that's because
(04:15):
they have this story that's been rattlingaround in their head and bottled up and
stuck in their throat, and theyjust they need somebody to listen. They
don't need me to get in theirway. They don't need me to prompt
them. They need me to sortof bear witness, I guess, or
just stay out of the way.And so it's always fascinating me to see,
(04:41):
Okay, we've been in touch throughsome kind of a way through email
or Twitter or a clearinghouse something,and there's been some basic introduction. Some
people give me this whole forrmal pitch, and other people are just like,
Hi, can I come on yourpodcast, and either way, yeah,
(05:03):
sure, regardless of whether you havea formal pitch or not. I don't
know what we're going to talk aboutbecause I don't do formal structured interviews.
I have a conversation, so Idon't know what's going to happen. And
part of that means I don't knowhow much prompting you're going to need or
(05:27):
where things are gonna go once Ihit record. And all of this is
relevant to today's recording. I'm talkingwith Catherine Bell. She has a number
of ways to introduce herself and anumber of facets that she brings to the
(05:48):
conversation and all of the matter.And what I really like is that I
think that she realizes that all ofthe matter. Are you sure you really
want to know? This is ignorance? Was bliss? I'm Catherine Bell,
(06:41):
and today I really want to speakabout the intersections of reality. I'll introduce
myself as mother, mother to Johnand Michael. I'm also a poet.
I'm a creative, I'm a creator, I'm a business owner. I'm a
serial entrepreneur, I'm a tech founder, I'm a researcher and a force for
(07:01):
the good. Oh that's all thoughthat's all you just sort of in your
spare time. You know, I'mgoing to start a business today whatever,
and a big well. And that'swhy I want to talk about the intersections
of reality, Kate, because Ireally feel like often we box ourselves in,
and I think there's an invitation forall of us to see and show
(07:26):
who we really are. So formyself, I'm a mother, I'm a
business founder, and I'm a poet. And the poetry just kind of dropped
in during COVID it I started aBuddhist practice, and I think that just
through the sitting that a portal reallyopened up in me, and I just
(07:49):
began to write and write and writeand write this poetry. I have thousands
of poems now and we'll be publishinga book in the fall. And yet
at the same time as I'm aserial entrepreneur and started a company called The
Awakened Company, which helps organizations withtheir corporate culture, and so often to
(08:09):
begin sessions, I start reading somepoetry. So we're so designed to kind
of think in certain ways that Ithink now is really an invitation for us
to see the cross section of whoand what we are. And another thing
I don't know if you've heard ofthe Aniogram Cage or not. So one
(08:31):
of my business partners is Russ Hudson, and he's the thought leader in the
world in the Inneagram, and we'redoing a whole series on Aneogram and creativity,
and we have private groups doing deepdives into their own inner journeys.
And I really do think we canall be secret agents for the good when
(08:54):
we do our own inner work andbring that into the outer world. So
I'm consistently playing with all the differentthreads of our inner world, our outer
world, our secret world to hopefullyshine some new energy on the way we
are in the world and the waywe work together, the way we behave
(09:18):
together, because I think it reallyis time for us to create new worlds
of being together, given what we'refacing as a collective for our kids.
You know, we spoke about yourkids, my kids, Like there's a
real invitation to create worlds where thingsbecome more possible for everybody. And unless
(09:43):
I think people really step into thefullness of who and what they are,
that won't be possible. Yet somany people aren't willing to go on to
that inner dive. So how dowe work on ourselves. How do we
develop our souls? How do wedevelop our being? And then how are
we in relationships to ourselves and toeach other in a different and fresh way.
(10:07):
Do you have any answer or doyou not? Are you waiting to
figure it out? Well? Ihave some ideas, and I think and
feel there's always unanswered questions, andthat's where the thread we can follow into
those unanswered questions. And there's somethings that we can do, so,
for example, doing centering practice.I don't know. Do you want to
(10:30):
try a centering practice right now?Kate together? Okay, So I'd invite
you to invite everybody listening to feedon the floor. Relax your hands and
if you want to be more grounded, put your hands face down. If
you want to be more receptive,place your hands upwards. Now, take
(10:50):
some belly breaths. Often we're breathingjust from the top part of our lungs.
It's an invitation for everybody to breathemore deeply into your belly center and
this alone can bring in a senseof more relaxation. Next, I invite
you to relax your shoulders, senseyour right arm. If you feel called,
(11:18):
close your eyes. I'm going toclose mine, since your right arm,
since your right leg, since yourleft leg, since your left arm,
(11:48):
top of your head, backs ofyour eyes, your ears, sense
you knows, your mouth, yourthroat, your heart space, your belly
(12:20):
center. Thank you. So that'sone micro practice we can do an even
just taking a deep belly breath.How was that for you, Kate?
What was your experience of that.I don't run anxious as a person as
(12:46):
a practice, and so for me, it's not sort of so much about
grounding as being receptive, right,that just what comes along, what what
comes to mind, and a lotof you know, while I don't practice
any gram as a as a isa tool, it's very very similar to
(13:11):
like progressive relaxation in the body andgrounded in the body and in deliberation,
in breath and deliberation and focused consciousnessand that kind of thing. And I
think that however you name it orhow we feel it, taking a couple
of seconds every day to step outof the chaos that is all of our
(13:37):
lives and remaining in the moment,whatever that moment looks like to you.
I think that's important because that's howyou check in and figure out, like
is this moment. Okay, arewe doing okay here? And do we
need to change anything major? No? You know, I mean that's how
that's it's an important way to checkin. You know. I have always
(14:01):
had a little bit of a challengewith things like hypnotism. Yes, yes,
in the other direction, because forhypnotism you have to close your eyes.
Yeah, and I'm deaf. Yeah, So I like the way you
would when you say, if youfeel called to close your eyes, Well,
(14:26):
I can't feel called to because it'sas I close my eyes, then
I'm no longer proud of the conversation. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And also temperamentally, Kate, I'ma more assertive type, so I
have a lot of energy that's goingout. So for me to close my
eyes, it puts me back intothe internal. And there's some people who
(14:46):
need to keep their eyes open becausethey actually need to be more engaged with
the world. So I love thatyou said that, and all of this
is an invitation to see what itactually works for you and to see but
the fact is we do need toslow down to be more mindful, more
(15:07):
deliberate in our world. It's alsoa lot more fun and a lot more
joyous, and all of a sudden, different worlds open up as a result
of understanding ourselves. But unless wetake that pause coming back home, how
is it then possible to do that? It creates a very challenging kind of
(15:28):
dynamic if we don't stop and pause. The other thing I'm a really big
proponent of is obviously knowing your anagramtype, because knowing your anagram type provides
a portal into knowing your inner landscape. So what are my gifts? What
are some of my work ons?What are some things I can bring to
the table. How am I inmy gut center, in my heart center,
(15:50):
in my head center? Where's mywhere are my default patterns? And
then how can I unlock the otherpatterns, the other things that I may
not be so aware of? So, for example, I am an anagram
type eight, or you know,I should say that differently. Actually I
should say I have a lot oftendency towards anagram type eight, because in
(16:14):
really investigating myself and understanding my defaultpatterns of eight, the world pops open
because I know there's eight other modesof being, if not more so the
self awareness to it, I'd reallystrongly suggest people get in touch with and
again I talk about the intersections ofreality. Knowing my anagram type effects my
(16:38):
parenting, of affects how I'm apartner, It affects how I am when
I enter a room, when I'mspeaking, it affects It provides a different
lens at different vista on my lifeand the lives of others. So knowing
your aneagram type, I think isvery, very very important. And also,
(17:00):
you know, I talk about alot about the awake of sleep line
for how do we catch ourselves inthe act when we're not behaving from a
default pattern and when we are behavingfrom a default pattern, and then how
to shift that. So there's areal invitation. I love to speak with
people about their own awareness and whattheir superpowers are. And they're so like,
(17:25):
Kate, what are your superpowers?I would love to know what your
superpowers are. I can lip read, and I can win radio contests.
Tell me more about the radio contest. That's fascinating. I mean, not
so much anymore because now it's allSpotify, right, but yeah, you
know, but I am from thegeneration where radios had commercials and they would
(17:48):
have you know, guests come andspeak and they'd be like, Okay,
call or twelve can earn tickets tothis show. I've won at least twenty
five or thirty times. And it'sjust more than anything. It's about,
first of all, of course,trying. I mean I would back up
to say, first of all,being in the right place at the right
time. And I had a jobthat had me drive a lot, and
(18:11):
I had a cell phone fairly earlyon in the process of cell phones because
of my work. But then trying, when you hear it, you have
to try it. The number ofpeople who are like, oh, I've
never won one of those, andI'll say how many have you tried,
and they'll say, oh, I'venever called. Well, then okay,
enjoy continuing not winning, good foryou. And then there's also a keep
(18:33):
it fun element to it, whichmeans so if you say, you say
they want call or twelve and nowI like I just like live music.
I just enjoy seeing I like thecrowd and energy. I like the thing.
I like, you know, andit's not I would rather travel a
lot of times, but my physicalhealth doesn't allow me to travel much.
(18:56):
But I can almost always go toa concert, and so I really enjoy
that and I'm I'm already excited thisyear thirteen about a couple of concerts we're
going to, and so I wouldjust go to anything, just anything and
number of people, but I'll waituntil I hear a band I really want
to go see. And I'm like, how about your practice on the other
(19:18):
And the way you practice is tohave fun with it. So if your
collar twelve, you try twelve times, because it only takes them between the
amount of time it takes you todial and then it rings and then either
hang up or it goes to thatbusy signal. That's about the length that
it takes them to pick up oneperson and say sorry, your CALLAR three
(19:38):
and hang up. Sorry your CALLARfour and hang up. And so if
you reach to number twelve and youhaven't one yet, you're not going to
So stop right there, because ifyou keep doing it, you're gonna start
to get frustrated. You're gonna startto get irritated, you're gonna start to
say, this isn't fun anymore.I don't want to do this, and
so you won't you won't win.Yes, Well, and what you're raising
(20:03):
about your superpower and your ability towin is to try and how important it
is to actually try. And Ithink so often people give up before amazing
things can happen. So, forexample, when I wrote The Awakened Company
and not a state publishing, Iknew I really wanted them to publish the
(20:26):
book because it was Eckart Toli's publisher. I thought they had the kind of
consciousness for this book. And shesaid no to me a gazillion times,
not a gazillion, but a numberof times. But I kept on trying,
and then she eventually said yes.And then she's like, you know,
I think you should get business leadersinvolved in this, and I said
yes, And I said, sowhy not Otto Scharmer from MIT and rosemar
(20:51):
Carrio from who was then the CEOof Patakohia. I didn't know them,
Kate and I tried, and Iput myself out there in a very vulnerable
way. And it's amazing how theuniverse collides with us when we try.
It doesn't mean we're going to winevery time. However, we will win
some of the time, and that'senough to make a very powerful impact on
(21:15):
people's lives. And I think sooften we forget about effort and the importance
of effort in our creative endeavors.For example, this poetry. Who knows
what's going to happen with it,you know, And I'm gonna try.
I'm gonna try, and I'm gonnaput it out there. And I'm putting
myself out there in a very vulnerableway, from a business author to a
(21:37):
poet. And yet there's something thatI feel is calling me to do.
So so I would invite everyone listeningjust to just to try and maybe just
you know, send us a nonejust try one small good thing and see
what happens. There's something I docalled the reverse pickpocket Kate, which I
(21:59):
what I what I do is Itake the largest bill in my wallet and
because I believe like good energies passedon and I give it away at random.
At first, I would give adollar away to somebody and I'd literally
throw it at them and run away. And then I decided that was ridiculous.
It was kind of like, soI took to kind of telling people
(22:19):
this story, like I'm doing areverse pickpocket. My only asses you don't
have to give the money away,but you have to give something that helps
somebody else. So as I wascoming out of my office one day,
I grabbed the largest bill in mywallet and a police officer. I said,
I'm going to talk to the thirdperson or whatever number it was that
(22:41):
I see, and I'm going togive them that dollar bill. So I'm
like, okay, it's a policeofficer. I guess that's what I'm meant
to do. So I walked overand I said, excuse me, officer,
I'm doing something called the reverse pickpocketand here's the here's some money that
I just want you to pass ongood will. And he said, you
know, lady, like look atme like I was totally crazy. You
(23:03):
can't do this. It doesn't lookgood. You can't give me money.
And I'm like, I'm sorry,you don't have to tell. You don't
have a choice. You have totake it. So I said, okay,
we're gonna go. He said,we're gonna go, and we're gonna
walk over to that fellow who's playingan instrument for money, and I'm going
to put it into his pot.I'm like, no problem. He's like,
but you have to come with meto witness this, because you know
(23:26):
I don't want to do anything illegitimate. I'm like fine, So I walked
over with him and put the moneydown, and the artist said, you
know, today I'm giving my moneythat I raised to the Dream Center.
And it just so happened that thatvery night I was going to volunteer at
the Dream Center to help people whoare recovering from addiction. So the universe
(23:49):
has a funny way of spinning thingsto help us, to serve us,
to serve and to serve other people. So I'd invite everybody the next kind
of thing to think about our relationships. Awakening our relationships in our field of
relationships is one small thing everybody cando is to positively notice each other,
(24:10):
and it doesn't happen enough. Andwhen we positively notice each other, it
changes the whole field. So myask of everybody listening is to notice at
least five people in the next daypositively, to really engage with somebody,
even it could be a smile onthe street, because it makes such a
(24:30):
big difference in people's world. Ourbrains are negatively wired, which I'm sure
most people know. We're wired tomagnify the negative. So just to magnify
the positive. And I work withan Olympic coach, Shannie Harley. She
says we've got sixty thousand thoughts aday, eighty five percent are repeating,
(24:52):
and of those eighty five percent thatare repeating, ninety five percent are negative.
So a hack just begin to positivelynotice people around you and to really
consider am I engaging with this person, with this person from a heartful place,
a mindful place, and also withthe sense of autonomy, like they're
(25:15):
independent from me. I'm actually doinga course on relationships and the anagram with
doctor Deborah Egerton that's starting in September, so we'll be exploring in depth how
to build great, great relationships.I'm super excited about doing that with her,
and relationships I think are a portalto creating a better world for everybody.
(25:40):
And unless we create these healthy,healthy bonds, I would say with
others, were in trouble. Sothe invitation here is to begin to positively
notice. And I thought recently ata business function and it was with university
presidents, and it was really powerfulto me when one of the presidents said,
(26:00):
she said, the most powerful thingI did was every night I wrote
five thank you notes. And soinvitation for people to write thank you notes
just or send a thing. Sosend a gorgeous email it's those little hot
those little things create hugely positive wavesin her life. And you know,
(26:26):
I would say as a mother,that's also been very a very powerful trick
to not even trick, but justpositively notice of your kids. Our kids
are families, and to allow thenest to grow in a healthy way.
And there's I don't know why thisis coming up, Kate, I don't
really talk about this very often,but let's talk about patriarchy. And I
(26:48):
don't know why this is coming upwith you, Kate, but let's talk
about it. So I feel like, in many ways from my own experience,
that I'm dusting off the cob ofsof patriarchy that have been so ingrained
in my soul. I've been kindof in many ways I haven't and I
think my Buddhist practice has really helpedwith this. I haven't taken my seat
(27:12):
as a woman, a female leaderin the world. And I notice all
the ways I kind of cut myselfoff, and even though I'm I'm definitely
a leader, I just do it. And I've come to realize, oh,
there's all these patriarchal cobwebs that Ihave all over me. And I've
kind of been unearthing them, I'mgrounding them, and it feels just really
(27:34):
good. And I think there's somethinghappening collectively that's really powerful about shaking off
the patriarchal dust or dirt or howeveryou want to call it, that is
going to be really helpful in thecoming decades. I mean, I hope,
I hope that it isn't haven't shownmy own like, I hope that
(27:56):
that's how we raise our kids.You know, my husband was raised in
a very sort of conservative household,and the patriarchy was something he sort of
took, for instance, for granted. And I was on my own at
seventeen, and it was a matterof fighting for everything that I wanted.
(28:17):
But I didn't want to fight violently. I didn't want to fight aggressively because
to what end, Like, that'snot my style, that's not my thing.
I don't even like playing first personshooter games on the computer back in
the day. You know, it'sjust not my thing. But it is
a matter of saying, no,this is what I need right now,
this is what I need. Youchoose whether to meet that need or not.
(28:41):
I can't make you, but I'mgoing to start expressing my needs and
that's seen as not especially feminine inthe world that we're in. And it's
those small ways that I fight againstthe patriarchy, is by not attacking patriarchy,
(29:02):
but by simply choosing not to seethat as normal and inevitable. And
so one of the one of thethings that you said a minute ago that
I wanted to roll back to isum positively noticing people. And I have
a little bit of a you know, that can sound on the surface like
(29:25):
what you're saying is give someone apersonal compliment about their appearance. I don't
think that's what you're doing, no, because but because frankly, that's pretty
patriarchal. But that so when Istarted my podcast, I wanted it to
have a little bit of a disclaimer. You know that this is for adults.
(29:47):
You know this is this is notmeant for children, small pets,
or house plants. And I alsowanted to clarify like, I don't practice.
I don't My podcast is not underthe name I practice under. So
it's pretty unlikely but not impossible,of course, that one of my former
clients would realize it's me. Mykid's dentist figured it out, so it's
(30:11):
possible you know, and so Ijust want to make really sure that I
explicitly say that privacy and confidentiality areprotected. I will change demographics, I
will change names, I will changecircumstances, because the point is the heart
of the story, not the details. And then I need I needed to
(30:34):
disclaim it and somehow, like youknow, I needed it to have that
beginning, middle end feeling. AndI don't really remember why. I was
just sort of for my initial disclaimer, I handwrote and it was mostly done.
It's less than a page, andI was like, I need something,
(30:56):
it needs needs something like and Iasked myself, well, why why
did I say all of those thingsabove? And I realised the reason that
I said it was because you matter. And so that has become part of
my disclaimer that's said at the beginningof every show. And then maybe a
year in, I'm over five yearsin now it's absolutely addiction. I own
(31:21):
this. But but maybe a yearin I had moved away from true crime.
I had moved into a more broadlike i'll talk to anybody kind of
mindset. And I was talking toone of my friends and she's like,
you know, I don't have alot of support in my life. My
partner isn't especially engaged, and youknow, I don't want my kids to
(31:42):
be my source of support. AndI just, I just I don't live
in a world where I have alot of support. And there are some
days where I'll put your podcast onjust for the first minute, just to
hear someone say you matter, becausesometimes that's the only time I hear it
all along. And you know,not being the sharpest cheese and the knife
(32:06):
block, it took me another sixmonths maybe to realize, like then say
it again. And so now mydisclaimer those are friends and other podcasters and
just you know, I'll just askpeople, hey, you want to read
me a disclaimer for me? Andthat's not my voice at the beginning of
(32:28):
the show reading, it's somebody else. But I have included it as part
of my outro. So at theoutro, I kind of wrap up,
here's what you just heard, here'swhat I think about it a little bit.
I thank the person for coming on. I think people for miss for
listening, and then I kind ofwrap it into being able to say again
so that the last two words youhear from my show are you matter?
(32:53):
Because even if I don't know you. If you introduce yourself to me,
then I'll know you, and thenyou'll matter to me. And I'm not
promising I'm gonna like everybody. I'mnot promising that we're going gonna click all
the time, but you will matter. And sometimes that's what people need in
this world is to know that somebodynotices them. Positively noticing each other is
(33:19):
a super medicine. And also forpeople to feel belonging and meaning in their
life. And I'm really interested intaking different perspectives on finding meaning and belonging.
And you matter, and you mattercan even be and all of a
sudden you assign a certain meaning toa color, and when you see,
(33:40):
for example, the color red,you might say, red means I matter.
And what messages are we telling ourselvesand what kind of reality are we
really constructing? And I think invitationeverybody listening. You matter and to find
meaning and longing in that, andto create meaning and belonging in your world.
(34:04):
Create your own color code, createyour own number code, to find
meaning belonging, and it also createsa world that's far more interesting when we
do things like this, and youknow, let's let's do a dare here
Kates. Let's say, you know, let's have people email us saying telling
(34:27):
what how many people should they takesay to another they matter? I think
ten people. If the first personwho says you matter to ten people,
email me and I'll send them something. I'm serious, let's pass this on
times. Seems perfectly fine to me. And that's the other thing. There's
a difference between knowing and doing.And that's the thing is that sometimes you
(34:49):
have to incentivize early on. Sometimesyou have to do the nice thing because
it feels a little silly otherwise,but hey, I'm gonna maybe win something
out of it. But because eventuallyit becomes habit. Eventually it becomes like
you know, for me, nowI don't know how to end one of
my shows without saying it. Andthen the habit then becomes us. Our
(35:13):
microhabits then become us. And thatis incredibly, incredibly powerful. And so
often we're filled with just the wrongmessages, whether it's like on social media
or on television, and so howcan we fill ourselves up with healthy atmospheres
(35:35):
through what we're taking in, throughour different senses and what we're reading and
what we're eating, and how we'rebeing in the world and how I think
everybody also is a force a catalystto be great in this present moment,
you know, and I mean tobe you know, yes, But what
I would also argue is that areyou familiar with the spoon theory? Oh?
(36:00):
What's the spoon theory? Okay?So that has to do with chronic
illness? Okay, yes, andit has to do with and I can't
I don't have it in front ofme, so I can't. I can't
accurately attribute it to the author,and so apologies to the universe for that
one. But it had to dowith two friends meeting full lunch and the
one mentioned like, I don't knowthat I have enough spoons to get that
(36:22):
done today, and you know,the other one being like, what what
do you mean? What do youmean by that? And they were like,
okay, how hard it is itfor you to get up out of
bed and get dressed in the morning, And they were like, no,
not very hard. Let's call itone spoon. Okay, here you go,
here's one spoon. Well for meit's five, yeah, totally,
and so but you both get thesame number of spoons to start with,
(36:45):
except oh, maybe I don't mehaving the chronic ailment. Maybe I start
my day with fifty and you,as a normal person, and start your
day with a hundred. And soI have to very carefully need out what
it is I choose to do andcannot choose to do, and how I
(37:07):
expend my energy, because when you'reout of spoons, you're out of spoons,
you're just out and and and thatapplies to mental energy as well as
physical energy and emotional energy. Andso as a for instance, normally I
make a point of I don't Idon't do to do lists. They stress
(37:30):
me out, and I have atraumatic brain injury where I don't know how
to stop writing them, like literallyitem one is righted to do list,
and then I keep writing until I'mwriting like the most ridiculous things that I'm
never ever going to accomplish ever,And so that that process stressed me out,
and so I learned stop stop.You know the basics. You've got
(37:53):
your calendar on your phone, youknow the basics. Instead, though,
I think it is important to giveyourself credit for what you have accomplished in
a given day, and so atthe end of the night, I write
down what did I do today?You know, and sometimes it's I showered
and I went back to sleep,And sometimes it's I read an audiobook,
(38:16):
you know, narrated an audiobook today, it did something work related. And
sometimes it's I finished another hexagon onShannon's blanket, or sometimes you know,
it's whatever, and sometimes it's enough, Like sometimes the answer is I'm looking
at a blank page. This doeshappen where the days can get hard enough
(38:37):
that you convince yourself that nothing Idid that day is worth writing down.
And when I get into that headspace, the answer immediately is to pick up
my phone and choose five friends andsend them a text that says I love
you, and that is great,and now I've done five things. Now
(38:57):
I've done five positive things that matter. And the number of times they'd be
like, I don't know how youknew that I needed to hear that today,
I don't know, you know,like I accept universe not sharing with
me. Why you because I havemore than five friends in my contact information.
But the point is I don't wantthat page empty. And this all
(39:21):
started because I had a near deathexperience back in twenty ten and I needed
some sense of validation or why amI still here? What am I still
bringing positive to the world, youknow, and it became a habit,
and so I don't necessarily physically writedown five things, ten things, whatever
I did every day. But Idefinitely have days where I'm like, I
(39:42):
don't I don't feel like I broughtmore than I took today, and so
I'm just gonna send out a coupleattacks that it's it's ever. I already
got my phone in hand. It'snot hard to do. Yes, you
are risking being ghosted or ignored.That's fine, that's them. It's like
with any gift, the gift isnot a success based on how it is
(40:07):
received. The gift is a successbased on the fact that you give it
with a whole heart, very muchso, and that connection that we're not
independent beings, we are independent andwe're interdependent, and that positive ripple of
sending the text. I just lovethat story of sending, you know,
(40:28):
five texts to friends saying I loveyou. And that's I think where you
know, intersection of reality back towhat I want to really wanted to focus
on, is by our small microactions. You know. For me,
I sometimes send poetry to friends atrandom, and I get such beautiful comments
(40:49):
back saying I just love it,and that was the medicine I needed to
receive. So by our small microactionswe set we set through forward ripples that
may not otherwise happen. And there'ssomething for me also into leaning into the
uncomfortable. So, for example,in businesses, I'd often be the only
(41:10):
woman in the boardroom and I wouldlean into where I was uncomfortable because I
knew that's where the growth it was. And often I'd be there at the
front and I'd be sweating Kate.I'd feel incredibly alone and incredibly vulnerable,
and yet that's what was most needed. And it's also interestingly people always comment
(41:32):
on those moments. They don't commenton kind of when I'm doing when we're
in a normal conversation, But it'sthe anomalous things where we are uncomfortable that
create lasting, profound memories for people. And knowing that intersection of who I
am and all the different practices I'mtrained in yoga too, and using different
(41:55):
yoga practices in business, it makeslife far more interesting and far more meaningful.
And I think everybody should have apersonal aim or personal focus because that
intention then provides focus for why whenit's going to take let's say, ten
spoons to get out of it thatday. Having that intention provides motivation to
(42:20):
say, you know what it's worththose ten spoons at this moment, or
it might not be worth those tenspoons in the moment, depending on the
aim. However, I think weneed we all invitation for everybody to consider
what is our intention? Where arewe placing our awareness, and what are
our actions? And how do wecreate everybody? I think it's here to
(42:40):
be a creative force, and becausewe do all matter, and I think
in many ways we've kind of lostthat, We've kind of lost that knowingness
that we do all matter. Andsome days, you know, I can
just feel hopeless, like oh mygosh, there's I feel like the world
on my shoulders sometimes and like howare we going to really move the needle
(43:05):
in these businesses? And then Isee something miraculous happen in a webinar that
we're doing on the enneagraph or inthe carpet boardroom. Because our businesses are
also their people. They're people,and all those people matter. So the
divides too. I'm kind of donewith the divides, which is again back
to intersections of reality, like it'show do we bring all these intersections together
(43:28):
to create a more whole place forourselves and for those that we really loved
well, And I think there's Imean, it sometimes is brought out as
a joke a little bit. Iknow, I've heard it on sitcoms as
a joke about how there's no suchthings. Is a truly selfless positive act,
(43:50):
And my answer to that is,okay, don't care. Like I
also deserve positive acts, So whydoes it have to only benefit someone else
and not me as well? Itcan benefit more than one people and an
effect it does. And there's apresumption to there of separateness where I don't
(44:12):
think we're as separate as we think. I think we are truly interconnected,
Like we have plant genomes in us, we have you know, my mood
affects your mood. Your mood effectsmy mood. Like we can't pretend we're
that independent anymore. And so ifwe make somebody feel good, they'll keep
passing it on, and we'll keeppassing it on. And it's for us
(44:35):
too. It's pressed too. It'sdoing it in a real way, though
I don't believe I think it hasto be real. It can't be something
fake or forced. I think it'sgot to be real. And I also
think it just takes us a moment, a moment in time to sit and
notice what is good. And itcan also be you know, I was
(44:58):
told in my growing up that youknow, things that are pretty, it
doesn't really matter. What's inside reallymatters. And yet there's something deep in
beauty. So for example, yourcurtains are beautiful around you, and there's
something deep in beauty that brings tolife something else for all of us,
and beauty can be I'm really biginto nature. I think nature holds the
(45:22):
truth. So even just going andsitting in nature and appreciating a tree that's
offering you shade, like, there'sjust so many microacts. And it's been
showing that if we positively notice plants, for example, they change, so
just an invitation and I'm noticing yourgreen microphone and how beautiful that is,
and then I think of green,and then I think of the heart chakra.
(45:44):
And then, for example, ifI were to be doing a team
session right now, I talk about, Okay, how's everybody's heart feeling?
Is your heart touched? And touse all of the symbols that are around
us and emerging through us in life, for our life and for other people's
lives. And I think this conduitwe've kind of become automatic, We've become
(46:08):
asleep, we become automatic, AndI think invitation to stop our automaticity.
Notice our patterns, and notice it'samazing that we're even here, that we're
even on this thing called earth spinning. And we forget, we forget,
we forget these intersections of reality allthe time. So what is it that
(46:30):
we need to awaken? I thinkis a self awareness our relationships, how
we are in community, How weare being in community so important, and
being in community with the planet too. How are we with nature? What
lessons does nature have to teach business? What lessons does nature have to teach
(46:50):
the arts? What a lot ofmy poetry is about nature because nature rips
open my soul, rips open mybeing, to allow rivers of different realities
to touch who and what I am. And then my hope would be that
through that poetry, other people areradically touched and moved to kind of see
(47:12):
the world in a different way,a more compassionate, loving and kind way,
an interconnected way. I have tosay that Catherine is the first in
almost five hundred episodes who has comeup with a challenge on the spot.
(47:38):
And I still don't know what theprize is because why would I. It's
her challenge, but I fully believethat she means it. She's it's her
challenge to you is go find tenpeople, tell them that they matter.
(47:59):
It's up to you what that means. Sometimes it's just those two words,
and sometimes you tell them why andthen email me and the first person to
do so, I'll let her knowand she'll send you something. I don't
(48:19):
know if I, like I said, I love this. This is why
I keep my podcast so free wheelingand unstructured, is because if I had
a list of talking points or anagenda in advance, there's no way that
would have come up or happened inthat way. So Catherine, thank you
(48:43):
so much for coming to play.It was wonderful to get to know you.
I hope you'll come back once yourbook is out, and I wish
you all the best with that.Thank you guys for listening. I hope
that you're doing well and healthy andjust being gentle with yourself, treating yourself
(49:06):
well. You matter.
Hey everybody, I'm Amber and I'mMaddie and we're which is talking Tarot And
this season we've got for you ghosts, cryptids, conspiracies. Oh by,
check out what role we cast EmmaRobertson on our myth episodes this season.
Yeah, and in addition to ourmyths, we will be bringing you the
(00:27):
holidays because we may or may nothave a missed one this last season.
I guess you'll have to listen tothe last episodes to check it out,
and then catch all our new episodescoming up every Tuesday and Thursday on your
favorite podcast platforms and see us onYouTube. Come and sit with us first
fill. This podcast involves topics suchas violence, sex, and mental illness.
(00:56):
If this or difficult language might distributeor those around, don't you please
reconsider it's really okay. Privacy andconfidentiality have been protected, with personal information
removed whenever possible. If you everfeel unsafe or suicidal, Please call your
local crisis center, call emergency services, or the national hotline. In the
(01:19):
United States, the National Suicide PreventionLifeline is one eight hundred two seven three
eight two five five And please,if you know nothing else, know this
you matter, Hey, this isKate. When I record, I ask
(01:47):
my guests to do what's called acold intro, which means I just kind
of give off thumbs up, liketell people who you are and what you
do. Go. There's a coupleof reasons for that. One is that
because it's meant to be a conversation, and because I don't know what we're
going to talk about or in whatorder, I wait and I record what
(02:14):
you're hearing right now, the intro, and then the outro later after the
fact. I let it sort ofpercolate for a little while, and then
I sit down and record when I'mready to say whatever it is I want
to say about this conversation. Theother is that it's always interesting to me
(02:38):
to hear how people bring themselves tothe conversation, and it tells me what
my role is here, how muchdo I need to speak or not speak?
How do they think? How howdo they roll. It's one of
(03:00):
the ways that I use forensic psychologytechniques of a sort in podcasting. So,
for instance, sometimes I've had peoplewho have been like, yeah,
my name's Bob, and I wrotea book and that's it, and so
(03:27):
what that tells me is that Bobneeds some prompting and some support, that
Bob's either anxious or unwilling or something. Bob needs more prodding to get the
story out. Because there's a storyin there, we just have to work
(03:49):
a little harder to find it.And then on the other end of the
spectrum, I've had people where I'vesaid, go for it. Tell people
who you are and what you do, and they talk for fifteen twenty forty
five minutes straight without any prompting orany interruption from me. Usually that's because
(04:15):
they have this story that's been rattlingaround in their head and bottled up and
stuck in their throat, and theyjust they need somebody to listen. They
don't need me to get in theirway. They don't need me to prompt
them. They need me to sortof bear witness, I guess, or
just stay out of the way.And so it's always fascinating me to see,
(04:41):
Okay, we've been in touch throughsome kind of a way through email
or Twitter or a clearinghouse something,and there's been some basic introduction. Some
people give me this whole forrmal pitch, and other people are just like,
Hi, can I come on yourpodcast, and either way, yeah,
(05:03):
sure, regardless of whether you havea formal pitch or not. I don't
know what we're going to talk aboutbecause I don't do formal structured interviews.
I have a conversation, so Idon't know what's going to happen. And
part of that means I don't knowhow much prompting you're going to need or
(05:27):
where things are gonna go once Ihit record. And all of this is
relevant to today's recording. I'm talkingwith Catherine Bell. She has a number
of ways to introduce herself and anumber of facets that she brings to the
(05:48):
conversation and all of the matter.And what I really like is that I
think that she realizes that all ofthe matter. Are you sure you really
want to know? This is ignorance? Was bliss? I'm Catherine Bell,
(06:41):
and today I really want to speakabout the intersections of reality. I'll introduce
myself as mother, mother to Johnand Michael. I'm also a poet.
I'm a creative, I'm a creator, I'm a business owner. I'm a
serial entrepreneur, I'm a tech founder, I'm a researcher and a force for
(07:01):
the good. Oh that's all thoughthat's all you just sort of in your
spare time. You know, I'mgoing to start a business today whatever,
and a big well. And that'swhy I want to talk about the intersections
of reality, Kate, because Ireally feel like often we box ourselves in,
and I think there's an invitation forall of us to see and show
(07:26):
who we really are. So formyself, I'm a mother, I'm a
business founder, and I'm a poet. And the poetry just kind of dropped
in during COVID it I started aBuddhist practice, and I think that just
through the sitting that a portal reallyopened up in me, and I just
(07:49):
began to write and write and writeand write this poetry. I have thousands
of poems now and we'll be publishinga book in the fall. And yet
at the same time as I'm aserial entrepreneur and started a company called The
Awakened Company, which helps organizations withtheir corporate culture, and so often to
(08:09):
begin sessions, I start reading somepoetry. So we're so designed to kind
of think in certain ways that Ithink now is really an invitation for us
to see the cross section of whoand what we are. And another thing
I don't know if you've heard ofthe Aniogram Cage or not. So one
(08:31):
of my business partners is Russ Hudson, and he's the thought leader in the
world in the Inneagram, and we'redoing a whole series on Aneogram and creativity,
and we have private groups doing deepdives into their own inner journeys.
And I really do think we canall be secret agents for the good when
(08:54):
we do our own inner work andbring that into the outer world. So
I'm consistently playing with all the differentthreads of our inner world, our outer
world, our secret world to hopefullyshine some new energy on the way we
are in the world and the waywe work together, the way we behave
(09:18):
together, because I think it reallyis time for us to create new worlds
of being together, given what we'refacing as a collective for our kids.
You know, we spoke about yourkids, my kids, Like there's a
real invitation to create worlds where thingsbecome more possible for everybody. And unless
(09:43):
I think people really step into thefullness of who and what they are,
that won't be possible. Yet somany people aren't willing to go on to
that inner dive. So how dowe work on ourselves. How do we
develop our souls? How do wedevelop our being? And then how are
we in relationships to ourselves and toeach other in a different and fresh way.
(10:07):
Do you have any answer or doyou not? Are you waiting to
figure it out? Well? Ihave some ideas, and I think and
feel there's always unanswered questions, andthat's where the thread we can follow into
those unanswered questions. And there's somethings that we can do, so,
for example, doing centering practice.I don't know. Do you want to
(10:30):
try a centering practice right now?Kate together? Okay, So I'd invite
you to invite everybody listening to feedon the floor. Relax your hands and
if you want to be more grounded, put your hands face down. If
you want to be more receptive,place your hands upwards. Now, take
(10:50):
some belly breaths. Often we're breathingjust from the top part of our lungs.
It's an invitation for everybody to breathemore deeply into your belly center and
this alone can bring in a senseof more relaxation. Next, I invite
you to relax your shoulders, senseyour right arm. If you feel called,
(11:18):
close your eyes. I'm going toclose mine, since your right arm,
since your right leg, since yourleft leg, since your left arm,
(11:48):
top of your head, backs ofyour eyes, your ears, sense
you knows, your mouth, yourthroat, your heart space, your belly
(12:20):
center. Thank you. So that'sone micro practice we can do an even
just taking a deep belly breath.How was that for you, Kate?
What was your experience of that.I don't run anxious as a person as
(12:46):
a practice, and so for me, it's not sort of so much about
grounding as being receptive, right,that just what comes along, what what
comes to mind, and a lotof you know, while I don't practice
any gram as a as a isa tool, it's very very similar to
(13:11):
like progressive relaxation in the body andgrounded in the body and in deliberation,
in breath and deliberation and focused consciousnessand that kind of thing. And I
think that however you name it orhow we feel it, taking a couple
of seconds every day to step outof the chaos that is all of our
(13:37):
lives and remaining in the moment,whatever that moment looks like to you.
I think that's important because that's howyou check in and figure out, like
is this moment. Okay, arewe doing okay here? And do we
need to change anything major? No? You know, I mean that's how
that's it's an important way to checkin. You know. I have always
(14:01):
had a little bit of a challengewith things like hypnotism. Yes, yes,
in the other direction, because forhypnotism you have to close your eyes.
Yeah, and I'm deaf. Yeah, So I like the way you
would when you say, if youfeel called to close your eyes, Well,
(14:26):
I can't feel called to because it'sas I close my eyes, then
I'm no longer proud of the conversation. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And also temperamentally, Kate, I'ma more assertive type, so I
have a lot of energy that's goingout. So for me to close my
eyes, it puts me back intothe internal. And there's some people who
(14:46):
need to keep their eyes open becausethey actually need to be more engaged with
the world. So I love thatyou said that, and all of this
is an invitation to see what itactually works for you and to see but
the fact is we do need toslow down to be more mindful, more
(15:07):
deliberate in our world. It's alsoa lot more fun and a lot more
joyous, and all of a sudden, different worlds open up as a result
of understanding ourselves. But unless wetake that pause coming back home, how
is it then possible to do that? It creates a very challenging kind of
(15:28):
dynamic if we don't stop and pause. The other thing I'm a really big
proponent of is obviously knowing your anagramtype, because knowing your anagram type provides
a portal into knowing your inner landscape. So what are my gifts? What
are some of my work ons?What are some things I can bring to
the table. How am I inmy gut center, in my heart center,
(15:50):
in my head center? Where's mywhere are my default patterns? And
then how can I unlock the otherpatterns, the other things that I may
not be so aware of? So, for example, I am an anagram
type eight, or you know,I should say that differently. Actually I
should say I have a lot oftendency towards anagram type eight, because in
(16:14):
really investigating myself and understanding my defaultpatterns of eight, the world pops open
because I know there's eight other modesof being, if not more so the
self awareness to it, I'd reallystrongly suggest people get in touch with and
again I talk about the intersections ofreality. Knowing my anagram type effects my
(16:38):
parenting, of affects how I'm apartner, It affects how I am when
I enter a room, when I'mspeaking, it affects It provides a different
lens at different vista on my lifeand the lives of others. So knowing
your aneagram type, I think isvery, very very important. And also,
(17:00):
you know, I talk about alot about the awake of sleep line
for how do we catch ourselves inthe act when we're not behaving from a
default pattern and when we are behavingfrom a default pattern, and then how
to shift that. So there's areal invitation. I love to speak with
people about their own awareness and whattheir superpowers are. And they're so like,
(17:25):
Kate, what are your superpowers?I would love to know what your
superpowers are. I can lip read, and I can win radio contests.
Tell me more about the radio contest. That's fascinating. I mean, not
so much anymore because now it's allSpotify, right, but yeah, you
know, but I am from thegeneration where radios had commercials and they would
(17:48):
have you know, guests come andspeak and they'd be like, Okay,
call or twelve can earn tickets tothis show. I've won at least twenty
five or thirty times. And it'sjust more than anything. It's about,
first of all, of course,trying. I mean I would back up
to say, first of all,being in the right place at the right
time. And I had a jobthat had me drive a lot, and
(18:11):
I had a cell phone fairly earlyon in the process of cell phones because
of my work. But then trying, when you hear it, you have
to try it. The number ofpeople who are like, oh, I've
never won one of those, andI'll say how many have you tried,
and they'll say, oh, I'venever called. Well, then okay,
enjoy continuing not winning, good foryou. And then there's also a keep
(18:33):
it fun element to it, whichmeans so if you say, you say
they want call or twelve and nowI like I just like live music.
I just enjoy seeing I like thecrowd and energy. I like the thing.
I like, you know, andit's not I would rather travel a
lot of times, but my physicalhealth doesn't allow me to travel much.
(18:56):
But I can almost always go toa concert, and so I really enjoy
that and I'm I'm already excited thisyear thirteen about a couple of concerts we're
going to, and so I wouldjust go to anything, just anything and
number of people, but I'll waituntil I hear a band I really want
to go see. And I'm like, how about your practice on the other
(19:18):
And the way you practice is tohave fun with it. So if your
collar twelve, you try twelve times, because it only takes them between the
amount of time it takes you todial and then it rings and then either
hang up or it goes to thatbusy signal. That's about the length that
it takes them to pick up oneperson and say sorry, your CALLAR three
(19:38):
and hang up. Sorry your CALLARfour and hang up. And so if
you reach to number twelve and youhaven't one yet, you're not going to
So stop right there, because ifyou keep doing it, you're gonna start
to get frustrated. You're gonna startto get irritated, you're gonna start to
say, this isn't fun anymore.I don't want to do this, and
so you won't you won't win.Yes, Well, and what you're raising
(20:03):
about your superpower and your ability towin is to try and how important it
is to actually try. And Ithink so often people give up before amazing
things can happen. So, forexample, when I wrote The Awakened Company
and not a state publishing, Iknew I really wanted them to publish the
(20:26):
book because it was Eckart Toli's publisher. I thought they had the kind of
consciousness for this book. And shesaid no to me a gazillion times,
not a gazillion, but a numberof times. But I kept on trying,
and then she eventually said yes.And then she's like, you know,
I think you should get business leadersinvolved in this, and I said
yes, And I said, sowhy not Otto Scharmer from MIT and rosemar
(20:51):
Carrio from who was then the CEOof Patakohia. I didn't know them,
Kate and I tried, and Iput myself out there in a very vulnerable
way. And it's amazing how theuniverse collides with us when we try.
It doesn't mean we're going to winevery time. However, we will win
some of the time, and that'senough to make a very powerful impact on
(21:15):
people's lives. And I think sooften we forget about effort and the importance
of effort in our creative endeavors.For example, this poetry. Who knows
what's going to happen with it,you know, And I'm gonna try.
I'm gonna try, and I'm gonnaput it out there. And I'm putting
myself out there in a very vulnerableway, from a business author to a
(21:37):
poet. And yet there's something thatI feel is calling me to do.
So so I would invite everyone listeningjust to just to try and maybe just
you know, send us a nonejust try one small good thing and see
what happens. There's something I docalled the reverse pickpocket Kate, which I
(21:59):
what I what I do is Itake the largest bill in my wallet and
because I believe like good energies passedon and I give it away at random.
At first, I would give adollar away to somebody and I'd literally
throw it at them and run away. And then I decided that was ridiculous.
It was kind of like, soI took to kind of telling people
(22:19):
this story, like I'm doing areverse pickpocket. My only asses you don't
have to give the money away,but you have to give something that helps
somebody else. So as I wascoming out of my office one day,
I grabbed the largest bill in mywallet and a police officer. I said,
I'm going to talk to the thirdperson or whatever number it was that
(22:41):
I see, and I'm going togive them that dollar bill. So I'm
like, okay, it's a policeofficer. I guess that's what I'm meant
to do. So I walked overand I said, excuse me, officer,
I'm doing something called the reverse pickpocketand here's the here's some money that
I just want you to pass ongood will. And he said, you
know, lady, like look atme like I was totally crazy. You
(23:03):
can't do this. It doesn't lookgood. You can't give me money.
And I'm like, I'm sorry,you don't have to tell. You don't
have a choice. You have totake it. So I said, okay,
we're gonna go. He said,we're gonna go, and we're gonna
walk over to that fellow who's playingan instrument for money, and I'm going
to put it into his pot.I'm like, no problem. He's like,
but you have to come with meto witness this, because you know
(23:26):
I don't want to do anything illegitimate. I'm like fine, So I walked
over with him and put the moneydown, and the artist said, you
know, today I'm giving my moneythat I raised to the Dream Center.
And it just so happened that thatvery night I was going to volunteer at
the Dream Center to help people whoare recovering from addiction. So the universe
(23:49):
has a funny way of spinning thingsto help us, to serve us,
to serve and to serve other people. So I'd invite everybody the next kind
of thing to think about our relationships. Awakening our relationships in our field of
relationships is one small thing everybody cando is to positively notice each other,
(24:10):
and it doesn't happen enough. Andwhen we positively notice each other, it
changes the whole field. So myask of everybody listening is to notice at
least five people in the next daypositively, to really engage with somebody,
even it could be a smile onthe street, because it makes such a
(24:30):
big difference in people's world. Ourbrains are negatively wired, which I'm sure
most people know. We're wired tomagnify the negative. So just to magnify
the positive. And I work withan Olympic coach, Shannie Harley. She
says we've got sixty thousand thoughts aday, eighty five percent are repeating,
(24:52):
and of those eighty five percent thatare repeating, ninety five percent are negative.
So a hack just begin to positivelynotice people around you and to really
consider am I engaging with this person, with this person from a heartful place,
a mindful place, and also withthe sense of autonomy, like they're
(25:15):
independent from me. I'm actually doinga course on relationships and the anagram with
doctor Deborah Egerton that's starting in September, so we'll be exploring in depth how
to build great, great relationships.I'm super excited about doing that with her,
and relationships I think are a portalto creating a better world for everybody.
(25:40):
And unless we create these healthy,healthy bonds, I would say with
others, were in trouble. Sothe invitation here is to begin to positively
notice. And I thought recently ata business function and it was with university
presidents, and it was really powerfulto me when one of the presidents said,
(26:00):
she said, the most powerful thingI did was every night I wrote
five thank you notes. And soinvitation for people to write thank you notes
just or send a thing. Sosend a gorgeous email it's those little hot
those little things create hugely positive wavesin her life. And you know,
(26:26):
I would say as a mother,that's also been very a very powerful trick
to not even trick, but justpositively notice of your kids. Our kids
are families, and to allow thenest to grow in a healthy way.
And there's I don't know why thisis coming up, Kate, I don't
really talk about this very often,but let's talk about patriarchy. And I
(26:48):
don't know why this is coming upwith you, Kate, but let's talk
about it. So I feel like, in many ways from my own experience,
that I'm dusting off the cob ofsof patriarchy that have been so ingrained
in my soul. I've been kindof in many ways I haven't and I
think my Buddhist practice has really helpedwith this. I haven't taken my seat
(27:12):
as a woman, a female leaderin the world. And I notice all
the ways I kind of cut myselfoff, and even though I'm I'm definitely
a leader, I just do it. And I've come to realize, oh,
there's all these patriarchal cobwebs that Ihave all over me. And I've
kind of been unearthing them, I'mgrounding them, and it feels just really
(27:34):
good. And I think there's somethinghappening collectively that's really powerful about shaking off
the patriarchal dust or dirt or howeveryou want to call it, that is
going to be really helpful in thecoming decades. I mean, I hope,
I hope that it isn't haven't shownmy own like, I hope that
(27:56):
that's how we raise our kids.You know, my husband was raised in
a very sort of conservative household,and the patriarchy was something he sort of
took, for instance, for granted. And I was on my own at
seventeen, and it was a matterof fighting for everything that I wanted.
(28:17):
But I didn't want to fight violently. I didn't want to fight aggressively because
to what end, Like, that'snot my style, that's not my thing.
I don't even like playing first personshooter games on the computer back in
the day. You know, it'sjust not my thing. But it is
a matter of saying, no,this is what I need right now,
this is what I need. Youchoose whether to meet that need or not.
(28:41):
I can't make you, but I'mgoing to start expressing my needs and
that's seen as not especially feminine inthe world that we're in. And it's
those small ways that I fight againstthe patriarchy, is by not attacking patriarchy,
(29:02):
but by simply choosing not to seethat as normal and inevitable. And
so one of the one of thethings that you said a minute ago that
I wanted to roll back to isum positively noticing people. And I have
a little bit of a you know, that can sound on the surface like
(29:25):
what you're saying is give someone apersonal compliment about their appearance. I don't
think that's what you're doing, no, because but because frankly, that's pretty
patriarchal. But that so when Istarted my podcast, I wanted it to
have a little bit of a disclaimer. You know that this is for adults.
(29:47):
You know this is this is notmeant for children, small pets,
or house plants. And I alsowanted to clarify like, I don't practice.
I don't My podcast is not underthe name I practice under. So
it's pretty unlikely but not impossible,of course, that one of my former
clients would realize it's me. Mykid's dentist figured it out, so it's
(30:11):
possible you know, and so Ijust want to make really sure that I
explicitly say that privacy and confidentiality areprotected. I will change demographics, I
will change names, I will changecircumstances, because the point is the heart
of the story, not the details. And then I need I needed to
(30:34):
disclaim it and somehow, like youknow, I needed it to have that
beginning, middle end feeling. AndI don't really remember why. I was
just sort of for my initial disclaimer, I handwrote and it was mostly done.
It's less than a page, andI was like, I need something,
(30:56):
it needs needs something like and Iasked myself, well, why why
did I say all of those thingsabove? And I realised the reason that
I said it was because you matter. And so that has become part of
my disclaimer that's said at the beginningof every show. And then maybe a
year in, I'm over five yearsin now it's absolutely addiction. I own
(31:21):
this. But but maybe a yearin I had moved away from true crime.
I had moved into a more broadlike i'll talk to anybody kind of
mindset. And I was talking toone of my friends and she's like,
you know, I don't have alot of support in my life. My
partner isn't especially engaged, and youknow, I don't want my kids to
(31:42):
be my source of support. AndI just, I just I don't live
in a world where I have alot of support. And there are some
days where I'll put your podcast onjust for the first minute, just to
hear someone say you matter, becausesometimes that's the only time I hear it
all along. And you know,not being the sharpest cheese and the knife
(32:06):
block, it took me another sixmonths maybe to realize, like then say
it again. And so now mydisclaimer those are friends and other podcasters and
just you know, I'll just askpeople, hey, you want to read
me a disclaimer for me? Andthat's not my voice at the beginning of
(32:28):
the show reading, it's somebody else. But I have included it as part
of my outro. So at theoutro, I kind of wrap up,
here's what you just heard, here'swhat I think about it a little bit.
I thank the person for coming on. I think people for miss for
listening, and then I kind ofwrap it into being able to say again
so that the last two words youhear from my show are you matter?
(32:53):
Because even if I don't know you. If you introduce yourself to me,
then I'll know you, and thenyou'll matter to me. And I'm not
promising I'm gonna like everybody. I'mnot promising that we're going gonna click all
the time, but you will matter. And sometimes that's what people need in
this world is to know that somebodynotices them. Positively noticing each other is
(33:19):
a super medicine. And also forpeople to feel belonging and meaning in their
life. And I'm really interested intaking different perspectives on finding meaning and belonging.
And you matter, and you mattercan even be and all of a
sudden you assign a certain meaning toa color, and when you see,
(33:40):
for example, the color red,you might say, red means I matter.
And what messages are we telling ourselvesand what kind of reality are we
really constructing? And I think invitationeverybody listening. You matter and to find
meaning and longing in that, andto create meaning and belonging in your world.
(34:04):
Create your own color code, createyour own number code, to find
meaning belonging, and it also createsa world that's far more interesting when we
do things like this, and youknow, let's let's do a dare here
Kates. Let's say, you know, let's have people email us saying telling
(34:27):
what how many people should they takesay to another they matter? I think
ten people. If the first personwho says you matter to ten people,
email me and I'll send them something. I'm serious, let's pass this on
times. Seems perfectly fine to me. And that's the other thing. There's
a difference between knowing and doing.And that's the thing is that sometimes you
(34:49):
have to incentivize early on. Sometimesyou have to do the nice thing because
it feels a little silly otherwise,but hey, I'm gonna maybe win something
out of it. But because eventuallyit becomes habit. Eventually it becomes like
you know, for me, nowI don't know how to end one of
my shows without saying it. Andthen the habit then becomes us. Our
(35:13):
microhabits then become us. And thatis incredibly, incredibly powerful. And so
often we're filled with just the wrongmessages, whether it's like on social media
or on television, and so howcan we fill ourselves up with healthy atmospheres
(35:35):
through what we're taking in, throughour different senses and what we're reading and
what we're eating, and how we'rebeing in the world and how I think
everybody also is a force a catalystto be great in this present moment,
you know, and I mean tobe you know, yes, But what
I would also argue is that areyou familiar with the spoon theory? Oh?
(36:00):
What's the spoon theory? Okay?So that has to do with chronic
illness? Okay, yes, andit has to do with and I can't
I don't have it in front ofme, so I can't. I can't
accurately attribute it to the author,and so apologies to the universe for that
one. But it had to dowith two friends meeting full lunch and the
one mentioned like, I don't knowthat I have enough spoons to get that
(36:22):
done today, and you know,the other one being like, what what
do you mean? What do youmean by that? And they were like,
okay, how hard it is itfor you to get up out of
bed and get dressed in the morning, And they were like, no,
not very hard. Let's call itone spoon. Okay, here you go,
here's one spoon. Well for meit's five, yeah, totally,
and so but you both get thesame number of spoons to start with,
(36:45):
except oh, maybe I don't mehaving the chronic ailment. Maybe I start
my day with fifty and you,as a normal person, and start your
day with a hundred. And soI have to very carefully need out what
it is I choose to do andcannot choose to do, and how I
(37:07):
expend my energy, because when you'reout of spoons, you're out of spoons,
you're just out and and and thatapplies to mental energy as well as
physical energy and emotional energy. Andso as a for instance, normally I
make a point of I don't Idon't do to do lists. They stress
(37:30):
me out, and I have atraumatic brain injury where I don't know how
to stop writing them, like literallyitem one is righted to do list,
and then I keep writing until I'mwriting like the most ridiculous things that I'm
never ever going to accomplish ever,And so that that process stressed me out,
and so I learned stop stop.You know the basics. You've got
(37:53):
your calendar on your phone, youknow the basics. Instead, though,
I think it is important to giveyourself credit for what you have accomplished in
a given day, and so atthe end of the night, I write
down what did I do today?You know, and sometimes it's I showered
and I went back to sleep,And sometimes it's I read an audiobook,
(38:16):
you know, narrated an audiobook today, it did something work related. And
sometimes it's I finished another hexagon onShannon's blanket, or sometimes you know,
it's whatever, and sometimes it's enough, Like sometimes the answer is I'm looking
at a blank page. This doeshappen where the days can get hard enough
(38:37):
that you convince yourself that nothing Idid that day is worth writing down.
And when I get into that headspace, the answer immediately is to pick up
my phone and choose five friends andsend them a text that says I love
you, and that is great,and now I've done five things. Now
(38:57):
I've done five positive things that matter. And the number of times they'd be
like, I don't know how youknew that I needed to hear that today,
I don't know, you know,like I accept universe not sharing with
me. Why you because I havemore than five friends in my contact information.
But the point is I don't wantthat page empty. And this all
(39:21):
started because I had a near deathexperience back in twenty ten and I needed
some sense of validation or why amI still here? What am I still
bringing positive to the world, youknow, and it became a habit,
and so I don't necessarily physically writedown five things, ten things, whatever
I did every day. But Idefinitely have days where I'm like, I
(39:42):
don't I don't feel like I broughtmore than I took today, and so
I'm just gonna send out a coupleattacks that it's it's ever. I already
got my phone in hand. It'snot hard to do. Yes, you
are risking being ghosted or ignored.That's fine, that's them. It's like
with any gift, the gift isnot a success based on how it is
(40:07):
received. The gift is a successbased on the fact that you give it
with a whole heart, very muchso, and that connection that we're not
independent beings, we are independent andwe're interdependent, and that positive ripple of
sending the text. I just lovethat story of sending, you know,
(40:28):
five texts to friends saying I loveyou. And that's I think where you
know, intersection of reality back towhat I want to really wanted to focus
on, is by our small microactions. You know. For me,
I sometimes send poetry to friends atrandom, and I get such beautiful comments
(40:49):
back saying I just love it,and that was the medicine I needed to
receive. So by our small microactionswe set we set through forward ripples that
may not otherwise happen. And there'ssomething for me also into leaning into the
uncomfortable. So, for example,in businesses, I'd often be the only
(41:10):
woman in the boardroom and I wouldlean into where I was uncomfortable because I
knew that's where the growth it was. And often I'd be there at the
front and I'd be sweating Kate.I'd feel incredibly alone and incredibly vulnerable,
and yet that's what was most needed. And it's also interestingly people always comment
(41:32):
on those moments. They don't commenton kind of when I'm doing when we're
in a normal conversation, But it'sthe anomalous things where we are uncomfortable that
create lasting, profound memories for people. And knowing that intersection of who I
am and all the different practices I'mtrained in yoga too, and using different
(41:55):
yoga practices in business, it makeslife far more interesting and far more meaningful.
And I think everybody should have apersonal aim or personal focus because that
intention then provides focus for why whenit's going to take let's say, ten
spoons to get out of it thatday. Having that intention provides motivation to
(42:20):
say, you know what it's worththose ten spoons at this moment, or
it might not be worth those tenspoons in the moment, depending on the
aim. However, I think weneed we all invitation for everybody to consider
what is our intention? Where arewe placing our awareness, and what are
our actions? And how do wecreate everybody? I think it's here to
(42:40):
be a creative force, and becausewe do all matter, and I think
in many ways we've kind of lostthat, We've kind of lost that knowingness
that we do all matter. Andsome days, you know, I can
just feel hopeless, like oh mygosh, there's I feel like the world
on my shoulders sometimes and like howare we going to really move the needle
(43:05):
in these businesses? And then Isee something miraculous happen in a webinar that
we're doing on the enneagraph or inthe carpet boardroom. Because our businesses are
also their people. They're people,and all those people matter. So the
divides too. I'm kind of donewith the divides, which is again back
to intersections of reality, like it'show do we bring all these intersections together
(43:28):
to create a more whole place forourselves and for those that we really loved
well, And I think there's Imean, it sometimes is brought out as
a joke a little bit. Iknow, I've heard it on sitcoms as
a joke about how there's no suchthings. Is a truly selfless positive act,
(43:50):
And my answer to that is,okay, don't care. Like I
also deserve positive acts, So whydoes it have to only benefit someone else
and not me as well? Itcan benefit more than one people and an
effect it does. And there's apresumption to there of separateness where I don't
(44:12):
think we're as separate as we think. I think we are truly interconnected,
Like we have plant genomes in us, we have you know, my mood
affects your mood. Your mood effectsmy mood. Like we can't pretend we're
that independent anymore. And so ifwe make somebody feel good, they'll keep
passing it on, and we'll keeppassing it on. And it's for us
(44:35):
too. It's pressed too. It'sdoing it in a real way, though
I don't believe I think it hasto be real. It can't be something
fake or forced. I think it'sgot to be real. And I also
think it just takes us a moment, a moment in time to sit and
notice what is good. And itcan also be you know, I was
(44:58):
told in my growing up that youknow, things that are pretty, it
doesn't really matter. What's inside reallymatters. And yet there's something deep in
beauty. So for example, yourcurtains are beautiful around you, and there's
something deep in beauty that brings tolife something else for all of us,
and beauty can be I'm really biginto nature. I think nature holds the
(45:22):
truth. So even just going andsitting in nature and appreciating a tree that's
offering you shade, like, there'sjust so many microacts. And it's been
showing that if we positively notice plants, for example, they change, so
just an invitation and I'm noticing yourgreen microphone and how beautiful that is,
and then I think of green,and then I think of the heart chakra.
(45:44):
And then, for example, ifI were to be doing a team
session right now, I talk about, Okay, how's everybody's heart feeling?
Is your heart touched? And touse all of the symbols that are around
us and emerging through us in life, for our life and for other people's
lives. And I think this conduitwe've kind of become automatic, We've become
(46:08):
asleep, we become automatic, AndI think invitation to stop our automaticity.
Notice our patterns, and notice it'samazing that we're even here, that we're
even on this thing called earth spinning. And we forget, we forget,
we forget these intersections of reality allthe time. So what is it that
(46:30):
we need to awaken? I thinkis a self awareness our relationships, how
we are in community, How weare being in community so important, and
being in community with the planet too. How are we with nature? What
lessons does nature have to teach business? What lessons does nature have to teach
(46:50):
the arts? What a lot ofmy poetry is about nature because nature rips
open my soul, rips open mybeing, to allow rivers of different realities
to touch who and what I am. And then my hope would be that
through that poetry, other people areradically touched and moved to kind of see
(47:12):
the world in a different way,a more compassionate, loving and kind way,
an interconnected way. I have tosay that Catherine is the first in
almost five hundred episodes who has comeup with a challenge on the spot.
(47:38):
And I still don't know what theprize is because why would I. It's
her challenge, but I fully believethat she means it. She's it's her
challenge to you is go find tenpeople, tell them that they matter.
(47:59):
It's up to you what that means. Sometimes it's just those two words,
and sometimes you tell them why andthen email me and the first person to
do so, I'll let her knowand she'll send you something. I don't
(48:19):
know if I, like I said, I love this. This is why
I keep my podcast so free wheelingand unstructured, is because if I had
a list of talking points or anagenda in advance, there's no way that
would have come up or happened inthat way. So Catherine, thank you
(48:43):
so much for coming to play.It was wonderful to get to know you.
I hope you'll come back once yourbook is out, and I wish
you all the best with that.Thank you guys for listening. I hope
that you're doing well and healthy andjust being gentle with yourself, treating yourself
(49:06):
well. You matter.
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