494 -- Producer -- with Reena Friedman Watts

Being a producer -- one who creates, brings about, makes available -- could mean any number of things, even within the slice of life called podcasting and pop culture.

Guest: Reena Friedman Watts, Better Call Daddy podcast

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Promo: Blood Rose Island (novel) by Amy Koto
Disclaimer: Bex, Tu Tía Bruja
Art: Kim Erwin
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/

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Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
We cordially invite you to escape toa marvelous tropical paradise. The beaches are
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com or follow her on Twitter atTV Fanatic Girl. That's TV Underscore Fanatic

(01:15):
Underscore Girl. Blood Rose Island byAmy Koto. It's a Vacation to Die
for. This podcast involves topics suchas violence, sex, and mental illness.

(01:36):
If this might disturb you or thosearound you, please reconsider it's okay.
Privacy and confidentiality have been protected withpersonal information removed when possible. If
you ever feel unsafe or suicidal,please call your local crisis center, emergency
services, or national hotline. Inthe US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

(02:00):
is nine eight eight or eight zerozero two seven three eight two five five
You matter. Hey, this isKate. I'm gonna just give you a
disclaimer right up front that I knowthere's noise in the background. We have

(02:25):
landscapers, which we do once ayear, and apparently today's the day.
But there's also an air conditioner runningand the dishwasher, and all of those
are reasons why I would normally delaythe recording of the intro and outro,
But this is the first time thatI felt well enough to get in front

(02:45):
of my computer in weeks, andso I know, and I apologize,
and the sound quality of the conversationitself is much better. Okay, So
disclaimer out of the way. Doyou ever have somebody you just click with,
you just automatically without even trying,vibe with and end up checking in

(03:12):
via text and watching, listening whateverto their stuff online and like in a
legitimate friends way, not just sayoh, yes, you have an interesting
premise and therefore, I will followyour podcast. Kind of thing that happened
to me with this guest. Hername is Rena Friedman Watts. Her podcast

(03:37):
is called Better Called Daddy. Andthe first time we tried to record was
on April twenty seven, twenty twentythree. That's significant because I didn't realize
that I was very sick, likeI thought I was getting better from the

(04:00):
February and March Misery Guestro Paris Extravaganza. I was on the pitline, I
was on the IVY nutrition and soI was like, yeah, I'm good
to record, real cool. AndI came downstairs to edit that episode a
couple of months ago, and Iopened my notebook to the page where I

(04:24):
keep my little notes on time stampsfor things and ideas for the title and
stuff like that, and I couldn'tread my own handwriting. And then I
listened to the episode, and I'mall over the place. I'm wound up
and distracted, and I'm not reallyfocused on anything, like I'm not focused

(04:47):
on Rena, but I'm also notfocused on a given topic. It's just
scattered, not in a fun way, not in a silly way. And
I realized the day after that iswhen I was diagnosed with an infection,
so my body knew that I wassick, even though my brain hadn't figured

(05:08):
it out yet. It was alsoa rough day for Rena because it's the
day that Jerry Springer died, andthat becomes relevant, as you'll hear in
this conversation. So Rena was graciousenough to rerecord with me a month later,
and this is the result of that. Take two. Sometimes when I

(05:34):
have a guest come on, theoutput isn't great. I'm not fully focused
and engaged, or they're nervous,or the sound quality is not ideal or
something, and I'll just accept goodenough, it's fine, it's whatever,
because I know I'm never going totalk to them again. I know I'm

(05:57):
it's a one off and we're justall going to move on with our lives
and they're not going to listen totheir own episode like you just know.
But in this case, because Renaand I have become legitimate friends, good
enough wasn't good enough. I wantedto give her the best I have,

(06:20):
which arguably may not be good enoughby prior standards, but you know,
it was worth recording. It wasworth take too. This is a much
better conversation. Rena has a podcast, she has a kids, she's a

(06:40):
former producer for some stuff you mighthave heard of, and she's just vibrant
and interesting and smart. And wehave enough overlap and things in common in
our lives that I just adore herand I hate geog your faith. So

(07:01):
this is round two of our conversation. And I'm not lying when I say
we could have kept going. Thiscould have been a five hour episode,
no problem, except kids started toget home from school and that sort of
thing. I just I hope youenjoy it as much as I did.

(07:26):
Are you sure you really want toknow? This is ignorance? Was blessed?

(08:03):
I am Rena Friedman Watts, thehost of The Better Call Daddy's Show.
I am a former reality TV showproducer turned podcaster podcast producer, and
I am a mompreneur of four kidsfourteen and under. So there's a lot,
you know, I mean, youyou do you ever? Sleepers?
That just not a thing in yourleft Oh yes, it's a constant juggle.

(08:26):
And I still have a four yearold in my bed, but I
try to sleep when he sleeps.Well, I mean, you know they
we with my kids we used tolean heavily into the three v's of parenting,
right Valley and vodka and Viking inand you know, it's just I
like the vodka piece for sure,and you know, but we none none

(08:50):
of the above for real. CPSdoesn't need to show up at my door.
But let's let's start start with Imean, you've got a lot on
your your resume with the we werenaked through the podcast in the first place.
So to clarify for people who arewondering, it is not a porn
show because I've had I've had phonesex operators on my show before, but

(09:11):
that is not what yours is.So can you describe your show? Oh
my gosh. I literally had acomment on podban and a woman said I
would have listened to your show ifit was better called Dad, but better
called Daddy hard pass. I waslike, hmm, that sounds like there
might be a story there. Wouldyou like to be a guest for real?

(09:33):
That sounds like a new problem.Tell me about it. Yeah.
Yeah. My dad is my numberone supporter and biggest fan, and I
wanted to share his wisdom with theworld. I thought that he always gives
me good advice. I'm talking aboutrelationship advice, business advice, life advice,
and so many people today need encouragement. And I was like, man,

(09:56):
my gift to the world, mygift to the podcasting space could be
interviewing people well, like doing myresearch, which I love doing, and
then bringing my dad in for alittle intergenerational play and let them ask my
dad a question and then when Ido the edit, they'll get their answer.
And so that's what it became.And you've been when did you start?
About three years ago? So yeah, you're no longer a poplar.

(10:20):
You've been doing your thing and doingmy thing. Does she like does he
obviously you call yourself a podcaster.I'm curious does he call himself a podcaster?
That's a great question. I don'tthink he probably does. My dad
is like old school marketer, youknow, he's having fun with it,
and to be honest, he's alwayswanted his own show. He is a

(10:41):
ham He's a total character and Ihe's a differentiating factor to my show.
I mean, he's got his fedoraon. He kind of looks like the
Jewish version of Tony Soprano. He'sa New Yorker in Kentucky, he's an
oddball. He's always beat his owndrum, and I like that, I
mean, good gift for him.Like the number of people who have active

(11:05):
like solo their own podcast that's registeredin their name, and they're like,
I don't mean think of myself asa podcaster yet, So like, I
think that's imposter syndrome. It soundslike your dad is more of a I'm
just gonna take over the world syndrome. He's kind of just like my side
show Bob. He says it's myshow and he's just showing up for it.

(11:26):
And that's another thing too. Youknow, if you're gonna have a
co host, you want somebody that'snot going to back out on you,
and I knew he wouldn't. Icannot get over the number of podcasts I
know of where marriages have broken up, best friendships have broken up, siblings
no longer talk to each other.And you know, I listen to podcasts
for probably two years give or takebefore I started my own, and that

(11:52):
factor's heavily into why I am asolo host, just because I was like,
I want my marriage and my friendsto stay as intact as possible.
I've actually heard that too, andI was a podcast listener as well.
I actually co hosted a show priorto starting my own, and I've actually
worked for podcasters and other influencers,and so I felt like I had the

(12:15):
chops to be able to do itmyself. I actually think that if you
want to start a podcast, listento other podcasts. See what podcasts do
well, see what you like,see what you'd want to make your own
guest on other people's shows, soyou can solidify your story and get comfortable
talking where you don't change your voicewhen you're being interviewed, but you actually

(12:35):
sound the same as when you're havinga conversation with someone like this, it
does Matt Mike. Etiquette is athing, and I was just talking to
a friend of mine about this aboutlike you can't just plunk a microphone in
between, you know. So like, as a for instance, my husband
and I have been married twenty threeyears and he comes on my show to

(12:56):
do my amas, which I do. I'd ask me anything episodes every so
often, and even then we haveto talk it through and sort of practice
and it's a different style of communication. Plus we sit side by side.
I'm gesturing like people can see this, but we do. We sit side
by side because that's my own oneof the only times I do episodes of

(13:16):
mine that are like live streamed,and it's such an odd experience. In
Mr. Daunt, we're like,Hi, can we go back upstairs and
like rejoin our family now? Likethat was weird and I don't want to
do that again until the next time, you know, you know, like
that's we need to really like rereacclimate. So that's cool. I've actually

(13:37):
had my husband on my show aswell, Like if I feel like there's
a gas or a subject that myhusband relates to or could potentially respond better
than my dad, Like I hada couple of people into psychedelics or I
don't know, scientists or things likethat to my husband is interested in those
subject matters and he's a dad,so I was like, Hey, why

(13:58):
don't you respond to though? Sothat's kind of an interesting twist too,
right. And I've had my kidsbe a part of some of the intros
or if they're interested in the gueststhat I'm having on, I've had them
appear or asked the guests a question. I think involving your family and your
work gives it more of a personalfeel and a uniqueness factor, and yeah,

(14:20):
it totally. I mean, Ihave my I've had everybody in my
family has had some role in atleast one episode. Let's bear in mind,
I've got like almost five hundred episodes, so that's not necessarily saying much.
It's still my show and they knowthat that it's Mom's thing, but
they've all had some role in itat some point in time, but none

(14:41):
of them jerks listen to it.So I'm like, well, I guess
you'll have some way of hanging outwith mom after I die, like thanks,
fam, But still it's absolutely it'sit's part of you know my So,
my eighteen year old over the pastsix months has started a YouTube channel
and they're gamer and they're doing betterthan I am financially now with it.

(15:03):
So I'm I'm again she above aboutcalling them jerks, like how dare you?
But honestly good for them, Likethey're building a brand and understanding how
to edit and how to run adiscord server and the social media side and
everything, and it's like it's allskill. Yeah, So I'm going to

(15:24):
say that I have a fifteen yearold the same thing, like he knows
how to create promo clips, heknows how to drop in music, he
knows how to do graphics, andhe's been able to take what he can
do on YouTube and what he's learnedfrom building community on discord to school.
I mean his presentations for school areimpressive. I mean, he says even

(15:46):
other kids in the class are like, how do you do that? And
I think that those skills are extremelyvaluable today. So I encourage it.
I mean within limits, right,Like you don't want them oversleeping every day
or you know, staying up toall hours of the night doing it.
But if you see that they havea talent in that area, give them

(16:06):
good tools, right like invest inthe software, invest in a good setup
for them. I mean, isit My kid's eighteen? So I didn't
even care if they sleep in everyday, like that's their problem. But
absolutely it's It's one of those likehow do you know whether you're gonna like
it or not like it, orwhether you're gonna be good at it or
not good at it without trying it? Go for it. My dad always

(16:26):
encouraged anything that I wanted to tryor do. To be honest, I
mean, I tried so many extracurriculars. I will say that my mom wanted
be to do like the modeling andthe dance lessons, and dragged me to
some things that I wasn't so interestedin, maybe a little bit longer than
I was interested in them. Andso as a mom myself, if one

(16:48):
of my kids is like super interestedin something and then that fades off and
they want to try something else,I don't make them continue to do the
thing that I want them to do. Yeah, look, so you you
I know that you also did realityTV. There's I mean that first of
all, let's start with that's awhole range what reality TV is in means

(17:14):
now and you know, I'm I'mof the generation where I can remember life
before and life after. So sortof where did you start and why?
Like what about what about that?Well? I started at an NPR station
in college and really loved the radiomedium, which is very similar to podcasting.
You're in a booth, you learnedhow to run the board. I

(17:37):
learned how to run the board manuallypre automation. So I would make air
check tapes and I would bring upthe music under myself and play with all
of the tools. And I thoughtI wanted to work in radio, and
I interviewed at w JAN in Chicago, which was a pretty well known station,
but I didn't get the job.And while I was up there interviewing
for a radio station, I sawin the same courtyard a flyer that Jerry

(18:02):
Springer was looking for interns. Soon the same trip, I walked across
from the Tribune tower to NBC towerand got an interview at Jerry Springer.
And that was my first job outof college. So that's how it started.
And I also had interviewed for anotherproduction assistant role at like Money Talk
or something, some stock exchange show. But come on, Jerry Springer a

(18:26):
lot more fun for real, sowe you know, it's a peek behind
the screens for people who are listeningalong. Is that this is our second
attempt at recording this because I screwedthe first one up profoundly because I was
sick and didn't really know it andso I was all over the place.
And so bear with me if Ire ask questions or whatever, and I'm

(18:48):
just not good enough at like actinglike I've never asked before. But this
was an interesting point that we broughtup the last time. Is you can
learn a lot by about someone bywhat they think of when they hear the
name Jerry Springer, like who andwhat he was, because you know,

(19:11):
for me, Jerry Springer was whatyou watched when you were home sick from
school and you found out you know, which, you know, which stripper
the guy was dating or whatever,and you got to watch them throw chairs,
and then you watched more and youfound out whether somebody was the father,
and then you know, you wentfrom there and when when Jerry Springer

(19:36):
died last month, it was reallyinteresting to me to watch that unfold on
social media, to see how people, like the number of people who thought
that that was all he ever did, and I was like, no,
no, I remember it being areally I don't know how big deal isn't
the right word, but an unusual, unexpected turn in his career because I

(19:57):
knew him as Yeah, this guywas mayor, like and not just mayor
of Podunk, Cincinnati, Yeah,and so a real town, you know,
with like more than two people init. And that then to go
from politics to reality TV instead ofthe other way around, you know,

(20:18):
that was an interesting twist. Backthen he was a newscaster, He was
an Emmy winning newscaster, and hevery much cared about politics. I mean
truthfully, politics were his love andeven you know, towards the end of
his life he had a podcast wherehe shared his political views. I think
that it was almost like a missedcalling. The thing is is he started

(20:40):
off his talk show in a DonnaHue style fashion where he tried to do
serious topics and his ratings were inthe toilet. So his executive producer heard
a story where a guy said,if you bring my ex wife, I'll
knock her out, and then executiveproducer was like bringer, And that's what
happened is that they did bring her, and then they realized that they were

(21:03):
onto something because the crowd went wildwhen the chairs started flying. And what
point of the show did you comein? Did you join the staff?
I joined the staff in two thousandand one, actually right before nine to
eleven, which is crazy. Iwas actually on the show and during nine
to eleven we had guests in town. I found out from a Jerry Springer

(21:26):
guest that they couldn't get on aplane. That was really nuts. I
worked there when we had beepers.We were on call the night before guests
came into town. I started offas an intern where I used to take
out the guests around town and becometheir best friend and you know, hang
out with them at the House ofBlues and take them to diners and make

(21:48):
sure they were on set the daybefore. And then I worked my way
up to associate producer, where Igot to book the kind of guests that
I was hanging out with. Andthen I became a producer where I was
in charge of pitching the store andbriefing the gas and making sure it's all
unfolded and running the team. AndI learned so much there, even how
to manage a budget and when madea good guest, and how to get

(22:11):
people to do what they say they'regoing to do on the phone, on
the stage. I mean, there'sa lot of pieces to it. Well,
yeah, and that's that was oneof the things that I always wondered.
So I'm I'm not going to nameI'm not going to name the show
itself because I'm binging a podcast rightnow and I'm stubborn, so I'm gonna
finish it. But it's terrible,So I'm not going to name what the

(22:33):
show is. But at the endof the show for reasons that aren't clear
to me. They read off likethe credits for everybody, like every musician
that's involved, every producer, everybodylike sound editor, sound mixer, sound
whatever, like everything, and theymust have at least six or eight producers.

(22:56):
And you know, I'm listening tothat, and I'm like, what
do they all do in The answeris those of us not in the entertainment
sphere have no idea, And evenyou know, myself with a podcast,
I'm like, well, I guessI'm a producer because I don't have staff,
but I don't really know what thatmeans. Oh man, that is
one thing that I really wanted toknow in interviewing Jerry was as the host

(23:21):
who shows up right before the show, like, did you understand all that
went into what the producers, theassociate producers, the pas, the executives,
Like, did you understand all thatwent into making that happen? And
he did, you know, obviously, after having a show for twenty seven
years and being one of the longestrunning talk show hosts and historyy like even

(23:41):
coming into the office briefly, youknow, you start to understand all of
the pieces. He had a hugeteam, right there's so many people that
makes production come together. And I'vealso worked after Springer, I moved to
La kind of at the forefront ofreality TV, and I worked for VH
one and MTV and Nanny nine oneone and just seeing a show from a

(24:03):
pilot to season three and how itbecomes a well oiled ship. You know,
something starts off as an idea andthen it becomes more formulaic. Right,
you have beats that you need tohit, you find your voice,
you see what works, and yeah, that's that's the difference between an idea
and something that turns into a show. And the producer role, it sounds

(24:26):
like to me veries wildly from showto show. Like say, you know,
so if I tell people I'm aforensic psychologist that has certain very specific
legal boundaries of what I can andcan't do and what I am and am
not. But even so, itchanges from state to state. But like,
producer seems to be one of thoseroles where it's like you can say

(24:48):
it and it could mean a wholelot. Oh, definitely. I mean,
if you're a producer on a documentaryversus a scripted show, versus a
reality TV show versus a talk show, so many different things that that can
encompass. I mean, some producersare in charge of money. Some producers
are in charge of creativity. Someproducers are in charge of the story.

(25:11):
There's story producers, there's field producers, there's money producers, right and two,
sometimes you see actors getting producer roles. So what does that mean?
Right? I mean it means moremoney, I think, is the answer.
Like for them, like they canbuild twice is my suspicion. But
did you catch flak or do younow even for like there's a lot of

(25:36):
people who have a really low opinionof reality TV and it's crap television and
it's brain this television, and Ihave thoughts about that, but I wanted
to shop just asking do you didyou catch crap for that? Like?
Oh yes, Actually, I've interviewedwith people that have said I'll never hire
a Springer producer. I've literally heardthose words. I've also had people to

(26:00):
tell me you should just say thatyou worked for Universal or you worked for
NBC, you know, the differentowners of who owned the show at the
time that I was working there.I've had people tell me to take it
off my resume. But here's thething. Do you want to work for
someone who wants you to take apiece of yourself away? Well? For
real? And I would argue that, first of all, if you pay

(26:22):
attention to reality TV, it's alot smarter because there are so many moving
pieces and you have to be somuch more flexible than a scripted show,
like I've. The closest I cancompare it to is like if you have
a scripted versus not scripted podcasts,they each need their skills, but when
you're just on a hot mic,like a friend of mine resists has resisted

(26:48):
coming on my show, even thoughwe are very close friends, because he's
told me I'm terrified of being ona hot mic. I don't know what'll
come out of my mouth. AndI'm like, okay, we really need
to have that happen. But youknow what, you also respect like it's
scary to some people because it's lessyou have less advanced control, and so
you hit record and those people geton the stage and you just sort of

(27:08):
wait and see. I mean,I'll tell you I've recently been approached by
a couple of networks. And Isat on that for a bit before I
responded, because I was like withyour own show, you have complete control
of the edit. You have completecontrol of what you air. And even
in the beginning of my podcasting journey, I edited so much more than I

(27:29):
that I edit. Now you haveto be careful because TV is edited and
they have an agenda and they wantto tell a certain story and things can
happen because they need them to happen, right. I always use this example,
like if somebody walks out of thehouse to take a call, and
it could be a work call,they can make that look like they walked

(27:51):
out of the house like you guysjust had a fight, right, they
might need a fight if your segmentis boring, just like on the Jerry
Springer Show, you hear them hitthe boxing sound like ding ding ding,
you know, go after each other. Right, if we need action,
we make action. So you youhave to think about how you're going to
be portrayed, and you have tobe able to self edit. If you're

(28:15):
being interviewed, you know, yougive people a glimpse into your life,
but you better be able to knowwhat you're talking about, because if you
overshare, you know you're leaving itup to whoever you're oversharing. With should
be gracious enough to give you anedit. I mean, what goes on

(28:37):
the internet stage on the internet,right like that that kind of idea exactly,
you know. And that's that's thething that I've I've had for my
show from my editing purposes. I'myou know, like in this one,
we are we are, you arebeing gracious enough to re record with me
because I was sicker than I realizedthe last time and so it was not

(28:57):
a good flow for me. Butalso I've had guests on where they had
said things that later they've said,can you take that out? I don't
like how I said that? Andmy answer is always like yes, but
even better tell me in the moment, because it's even easier for me if
you say, hey, I wantto restart that sentence, or I didn't

(29:19):
mean to say that person's name.Tell me in the moment, because then
I can jot it down and justcatch it with the timestamp. And that's
cool. But I have been onshows where their attitude is I own the
sound. Anything you say I cankeep and use forever, and that's tough.

(29:41):
There are certainly shows that I won'tgo back on because of that experience
of what if you choose to takeme out of context, because sometimes I'm
kind of an asshole and like,let's at least put my ass hattery in
context. If you are an assholeon television, you are not going to
have that freedom. That's what I'msaying, you know, And in people,

(30:03):
there's I've I've seen things pulled outof I've had people pull, you
know, quotes out of my showsor whatever and be like I disagree with
you about that, and I'll belike, that's fine, that's no big
deal. But I you know,at the end of the day, my
feeling is I don't ever want somebodyto regret coming on my show. And
that's because I've been on shows andI'm I'm I'm picturing a different show which

(30:29):
I won't name again, but I'mpicturing one where I was like, I
was miserable through the whole recording process, and then as soon as it was
done, I was like, thatdidn't portray either of us in a good
light. And then I relistened laterand I actually contacted the podcaster after it
was out and said, I needyou to cut from this timestamp to that
time stamp completely because I don't knowwhat you did with the editing, But

(30:53):
it had to do with we wererecording in January of twenty twenty and so
people had heard a little bit aboutthis coronavirus, but nobody really knew what
it was. And the way theyedited made me sound as though I was
saying, well, I'm going tokeep traveling and living my life the same

(31:14):
as I always have, no matterwhat, and obviously that's not the case.
But I didn't want that portrayal ofmyself, and that's only part of
it. Like I ultimately, Ijust never shared that particular episode on social
media at all because it didn't putanybody in a good light. But you
just never know, so I'm surethere have been plenty of people that have

(31:37):
been on reality TV shows and talkshows that may regret their behavior or things
that they shared. And if youmake the choice to be on a television
show and you sign your life away, you are not going to have the
freedom of an edit or a requestto take out times dance. Would you
be willing to be a guest ifthey to call you? Somebody just asked

(32:01):
me that, And to be honest, I would have to have a manager
that really helped with the paperwork ofme being a contributor, because I would
definitely want if I were to beon a reality TV show to see the
edit before it aired. I wouldwant to be a contributor or a producer

(32:25):
on the series, or at leastgive my stamp of approval of how I
was portrayed. And I don't evenknow if that's always possible. So it's
tough. It's a tough understand theediting process. And I understand that people
are typecast, and I understand thatthey need drama. I understand all of
that. I also understand how toget in touch with people, and I

(32:47):
know today you can make your ownaudience and your own show, and you
can reach just as many people asthese networks. It's pretty crazy. Well,
I mean, I was on anetwork for my second year. So
my first year it just sort ofstruggling along figuring stuff out, you know,
dog paddling a little bit. Andthen my second year, I was

(33:09):
on a network that ultimately ended upimploding, like there's multiple lawsuits on it,
and I it happened. I luckedout that my contract with them ended
right before the network fully went underin several ways, and since then,

(33:29):
I've just been like, look,this is my I consider this my job.
This is my my my you know, I do full time work for
part time pay. That's what Idescribed podcasting is for me, but that
I'm not going to like. Idon't know what it would take for somebody
to convince me to join a networkagain, because that one experience I had
was so terrible. But there's otherpeople who are like, I love it.

(33:52):
I love the the shared workload,or the shared promotion, or just
it does open doors for people.I'm just like, I don't think I
want that door open right now.Well, I will say that I started
doing a radio show for cool dotFM about four months ago, and one

(34:13):
thing that I love about now beinga part of a radio station and it
is only part time I do iton Sundays, is getting other people's ideas.
So I am rebroadcasting old select episodes, like some of my best episodes.
But one of the producers on theshow is now rewriting some of the
intros that I wrote about the guests, so he'll look at my show note

(34:37):
description and then he'll give me histake on that or his spin on that.
And to have another producer who's beenin the industry for a long time.
Give you a new fresh set ofeyes on your idea is an amazing
way to repurpose and I love that. So I do think that there are
benefits to working, like you said, with a team, just to get

(35:00):
a fresh pair of eyes or tointroduce your art to a new audience.
I think that a lot of podcasters, you know, they publish their episode,
they promote it for a couple ofdays, and after the first week
of the episode is out, itdies. Right, So you have to
either do update stories, or youhave to do ig lives, or you
have to have a Facebook group,or you have to have another way a

(35:22):
radio show, you have to haveanother way to rebring those same episodes up
in a new way later. Right, Like, you've got five hundred episodes,
how many of those episodes are youstill able to repromote or update or
rework. I mean, the answerto that logistically is not very many.

(35:44):
By choice is that I've decided thatI like looking. My favorite part is
this, the recording with people andthe connecting with people. I like the
editing. I hate the social mediapart. I do it because it's sort
of a necessary tool. But thenif I really like connecting with somebody.

(36:04):
If I have a guest that Ifeel like we really had a good spark,
let's do that again. I havethem back on, like be a
repeat guest. I've had several peoplewho have been on the show more than
once. And that's that was mychoice early on, because this was just
going to be a hobby and Ithought I'd do it for like, I
don't know, twenty thirty episodes andbe done. And here we are five

(36:29):
and a half years later, andI'm like, all right, it's not
an addiction that can stop whenever Iwant. But so, you know,
there are episodes. You know,I've had people ask what's your favorite episode,
and I'm like, I got fivehundred, Like I can't begin.
I won't choose between my babies inthat sense, but yeah, there are
there are episodes where that are strongand powerful and important. I think that

(36:51):
have fallen under the surface because thenew ones have pushed them off the other
end of the factory belt. AndI just have to let that be,
like that's that's how it is.And if I want to re hype or
reconnect with that person, I haveto contact them and get them back on
my show. Yes. I dothink though, that episodes are timeless,
and if you talk about a subjectthat's rare, or if you capture a

(37:14):
special time in that person's life,right then it's still relevant. Yeah,
yeah, still relevant, or youcan update it later. I actually love
updates. I've also had a bunchof repeat guests. So another thing I'm
going to shout out Ben walk himsomething that he introduced us, but something
that he's really great at is takingthe relationship offline. I mean, we

(37:37):
text, we connact with each otheron social and I just texted him,
I just sent him a guest yesterday. The day before of I had somebody
to come on my show, andI was like, oh, you guys
connect. And that's another one ofmy favorite parts of podcasting is that the
interactions to some people, your relationshipis in and of the moment you're going

(38:01):
to talk for an hour, I'mgoing to spend however long it takes to
edit the episode, and that's it. That's the end of our relationship.
And that's okay, that's fine,that's fair. But then there are other
people where you know, I've madesome of the best friends of my life
podcasting. That's why I can't quit. And that's where my dad won't let
me quit. Because when you havea platform, it allows for all kinds

(38:23):
of relationships on different levels. Youknow, some might be for the moment
that you need them, and somecould be years later, and some could
lend to other opportunities and other guestsand other ideas. Bena is one of
those special people that he's already sentme gass and I've sent him gas and

(38:44):
I can see that relationship going fora while. So yeah, he wants
in a while. He threatens toburnout, and I'm like, don't you
know, just that's just simply notan option. Sorry, should we talk
about burnout too? Because joke,poad is no joke? I mean for
me, it's because, like Isaid, my favorite part is so I

(39:05):
I don't run anxious as at baselinethat's not my You know, if if
I have to my sort of psychiatricdrug of choice, who would be depression?
And I guess if I had tochoose one, but be right before
every recording and still now you know, still today, in the half hour
or so leading up, I havea huge spike in social anxiety, and

(39:29):
I tell myself, I don't wantto do this. I can't do this.
It's too much, it's too hard. This is the one I'm going
to drop the ball, this isthe one I'm going to be bad at
whatever. Like it's just it's it'sI don't actually speak to myself in that
sense. I don't have an internalmonologue, but that's the feeling that I
have. And I very often recordin the evenings because kids loud whatever,

(39:52):
and so I record after they're inbed, especially because my husband is a
he's both a high school teacher anda college professor. He teaches night classes
and so I have to get thekids to bed before I can record,
and so often I'm upstairs at youknow, seven thirty or eight pm,
going I can't do this, Likethis is the one, Like I'm just

(40:12):
gonna you know, I've been sick. I'm just gonna cancel. I'm gonna
bail. It's gonna be fine.And I have an agreement with myself that
I'm not committing to a full hourrecording. I'm not even committing. I'm
not committing to anything except I'm goingto come down and turn on my computer.
That's all I'm gonna do. AndI'm allowed to turn on the computer

(40:34):
and then say this is too much. I can't do it. Today we
are allowed to have limits, andwe're allowed to say it's too much,
and I'm allowed to cancel if Ihave to. But almost without fail,
there are a couple of As I'vesaid, there's once in a while the
things just don't click with people.But almost without fail, I go back
upstairs after recording REVD up and happyand you know, thinking differently and feeling

(41:04):
functionally because I've been on disability sincetwenty fourteen, and so this is my
connection to the outside world. Thisis my as my kids get older and
my husband works a lot, andso this is my way of having a
life that doesn't This is me beingme rather than being somebody's mom or somebody's
wife or you know. And thatis what keeps it rolling, is that

(41:27):
I'll forget once in a while.And by Ben sick this year, and
my husband noticed that he can measurehow unwell I am at a given moment
by you know. So, forinstance, we knew it was time for
me to come home from the lasthospital stay when I told him I'm thinking

(41:47):
of going and just taking my phoneinto the family waiting room and just recording
a quick update for people to knowwhat's going on, you know what I
mean. Like, that's that's howthat's the role this has created for me.
And so that's why and how Ikeep going is that I get more
out of it than I put in, even though I think I put a
fair amount in. I love thatyou shared that, and it's so funny.

(42:08):
So my dad called me a coupleof days ago and he's like,
are there any episodes for me todear reaction to? Like he's needing it
now. He loves the special timehe's it's it's part of his life.
So he may not consider himself apodcaster like you asked me, but there
is something about this that has nowgiven him a purpose and he's given him

(42:32):
a new way to express himself.And he talks about it to people in
synagogue, he talks it to people, you know, on airplanes. He
shares it with his mom, andit's become his legacy. It's amazing and
mine. And that's that's the thingis that I for me, I wanted
you know, I look, I'mgoing for full coverage on the medical Bingo

(42:53):
board of like everything that can gowrong with my body pretty much every system,
like not would haven't had cardiac orpulmonary issues yet, but give me
time, give me time. I'mI'm only forty six, so there's there's
still time left. But I havefelt since you know, I had in
your death experience at thirty two,and so since then, I've kind of

(43:16):
felt like, look, I'm alreadypast the halfway point of my life,
and there's a lot of things thatI want my kids to know, either
not so much facts about me,but ways I react and interact with the
world. And so they'll have this, this will stay live and they'll have
that option. And so the factthat they don't listen now fine, like

(43:39):
they'll they'll have their time. AndI had the opportunity, like so I
recorded an episode with my grandmother andthat was super fun. And since then,
cognitively she's had enough of a declinethat she wouldn't be able to so
I have her voice and it's thereand it's never going away. I also

(44:01):
recorded with my mother, with whomI'm no contact now, and I don't
regret that, and I haven't pulledthat episode down because that was that snapshot
of our relationship in that moment andthings change, I will always regret.
I don't like the word to regret, but we'll go with it that I
didn't I didn't have time to getmy dad on an episode. He died

(44:24):
in twenty nineteen, and so that'sthat's a thing that I've I've learned of
just go ahead and ask. Asklike loved ones, friends, acquaintances,
but also famous people for you knowor whatever. Like I hate, I
hate hate when people say, oh, that's a good get, because everybody's

(44:44):
a good get. Everybody's got astory and it's my job to pull the
story out and to learn about them. But still to just ask, just
ask, because what's the worst it'sgonna happen. They're not gonna come on
my show. Well, they weren'tgoing to come on my show anyway if
I didn't ask. So it's beena way of feeling relevant in the world
again and feeling smart again, andfeeling connected. And so I don't assume

(45:09):
that your father felt was feeling,you know, wasn't in any risk of
feeling irrelevant or disconnected or not smart. But I get that feeling of like
this has become my thing. Oh, I was so excited that he called
me and was like, is thereany episodes for me to do. Your
reaction to you, I'm like,actually, I'm recording when today, Dad,
Yeah, get there. Yeah,yeah. I love that you have

(45:32):
recorded with your grandmother. I actuallydid that too, and exactly what you
said, like I recorded with hertwo years ago, where she can't give
me that same story in the sameway now. And I feel very thankful
that I took my dad's suggestion andhe put the earbuds on her. It's
his mom, so that was reallya special and my other grandmother isn't really

(45:52):
open to it, and my momisn't really open to it. So I'm
glad that I have that one interview. And what else is interesting is my
dad found a tape of his dadwhen he was cleaning out his factory,
and I converted the tape to anMP three and I myself just did a

(46:13):
little transition between my grandmother's interview andthen the tape, and I put both
of them together and released that asan episode, kind of like a gift
to my dad, a gift tomy kids, a gift to me.
So that was a really special episode. Yeah do you have I mean,
it's sort I guess this is sortof a rhetorical question because I kind of
know the answer. I think,but do you have a wish list?

(46:37):
Do you have people in mind thatyou're like, Oh, I really need
them on my show. Well,Jerry Springer was that and I am so
thankful that I got to interview himbefore he passed. So that was definitely
one of those. It's funny whenpeople ask me, Like you said,
people ask who's your favorite guest?Everybody loves to ask that question. I
always say my most recent because Ifeel like I'm constantly evolving and constantly get

(47:00):
better and learning how to do betterresearch and feeling more comfortable and sharpening my
skills. So for me, it'salways my most recent. You know,
whether somebody's famous or not, Idon't think that matters. You can get
somebody famous and it can be aterrible interviewer, it can be a great
interview right, It depends on theguest. For I mean, one of
the I wouldn't call it a favoritebecause, like you said, that what

(47:23):
that means on a given day canchange, what that means in a given
hour can change what my favorite is. You know. But the episode that
I would consider to have had thebiggest real world impact. There's two.
One is I am. I haveconnections with several of the Sandy Hook parents

(47:45):
and so my first year, whenI was still like I don't know how
long I'm going to keep doing this, I read off all of the kids
obituaries and that's that's hardcore. Likethat's not one to go listen to for
fun, but it's important and it'sout there and spoke, and each of
those kids and the teachers have theirstory spoken as well as written that way

(48:08):
and then another. And so thatwas just me. And I don't have
very many monologue episodes because I'm Iget tired of myself. But another of
my most I would say impactful episodesI kind of had the guy on as
a as a as a dare almostbecause we were in like an online this

(48:30):
was during the pandemic and we werein like an online happy hour kind of
thing and he had all these interestinghobbies and I was like, you should
come on and talk about like hedid like leather working and like I don't
know, built like chicken coops,not at up leathers separately, but you
know, like all of these differentthings, and I was like, you
should come on and talk and hewas like, oh, he had the

(48:50):
reaction which I find sadly common ofoh I wouldn't have anything to talk about,
which people do. They always thinktheir own story is not as exciting
as I think they're story is.And so I was like, oh,
you know, come on, youyou'd do great with this, and someone
else in the Happy Hour short ofchastised me, like he said no,
and I'm like, I no,he said no, and of course I'm
not going to fight, but Iimmediately dammed him. I'm like, Okay,

(49:13):
now I'm pissed off and I reallywant you to come on the show.
And he's like, okay, Ijust don't know what I mean you
have to offer. And I waslike that's fine, Like it can be
the world's most boring half hour andI am perfectly happy with that. I
just have a point to prove now. And so he's introducing himself and he
says, yeah, well, whenI was in my thirties, I was

(49:35):
diagnosed with autism and so that Ihad no idea, and that's the direction
the conversation went about what was thatlike and how did that happen and was
it positive or negative for you?And what has it done for you?
And whatever? And I still getemails and dms from people saying like that
episode has made me look at mykid, or my sibling, or my

(49:58):
parents or my self differently. I'mcalling my doctor. I'm like I get
it now, and I'm like,that's what it's all about. Like,
if that is all my show everaccomplishes, that's enough. That's amazing.
Yeah, that's that's really impactful.I feel lucky that I got to cover
a couple of news stories as well. One was really close to after it

(50:23):
happened. There was a family inChicago, the Bronstein family, and their
son was being bullied online. Hehad just switched schools during the pandemic and
he wanted to be in person andthe school that he was at wasn't back
in person, and so they switchedto this other other public's, other private

(50:43):
school, and very early on inthe transfer, the bullying started and he
was talking to the school and thinkingof switching the next semester, and he
started receiving threats on Snapchat and kidstelling him go kill himself. And he
did end up killing himself. Andhe was the same age as my son.

(51:07):
I actually had a cousin that attendedthat school and ended up leaving for
bullying, and I reached out tothe parents just saying, I can't sleep
over your loss, over your story. I would love to interview you in
person. I have a friend herein Chicago that has a studio. Will
you come meet me. I wantto share awareness around the story. And
they did end up meeting me inperson. I felt like the news.

(51:30):
I was like, how come thisisn't getting enough news, you know?
And just meeting with them a coupleof months after that happened was I barely
had to even ask any questions.It was so raw. They just really
needed a platform to be able toshare and that I felt like was super
impactful and an important message, andI'm still in touch with them. I

(51:52):
tried to introduce them to other newsconnections that I had. I felt like
that story really needed more press.That was an important one for me.
There was also another one that aclient of mine introduced me too. It's
so interesting that even you know clientsof yours will sund new stories. So

(52:13):
there was this guy that I knewfrom having produced a healthcare podcast, and
he saw a national news story abouta girl who went in for am ammogram
at twenty eight and was told thatit was a benine cist and then at
twenty nine she went back and shewas in stage four cancer. So she
went from being denied in my ammogramto being diagnosed with stage four cancer.

(52:36):
That one really hit me because mymom has gone through breast cancer and my
grandmother this past year went through breastcancer. I'm forty three, I haven't
had a mammogram, I'm still anurse child. But it really hit home.
And the fact that I was ableto reach out to her and get
her story and her experience and howshe's navigated healthcare and what to say,

(52:57):
and that one I felt like wasa really important message, and a lot
of people reached out to me andthanked me for introducing her story. So
it's not like your your ideal guestis sort of in the moment of the
moment rather than you. You don'thave and and I don't have a specific

(53:17):
like I have some There are somepeople where I'm like, Oh, I
really want to have them on myshow. I have to ask them someday.
And the only reason I haven't rightnow is because I've cut my recording
time about down to about twenty fivepercent of normal because I'm not I've not
been well and so I'm just tryingto catch up with myself. But there
are still a couple of people whereI'm like, ah, that's that would

(53:39):
be a dream guest. I don'tthink they would have me. But then
I always remind myself, like Ihave told myself that about other guests,
either because of the nature of theirstory. I was like, there's no
way they would tell that story ona podcast, or because they're they're they're
too famous, you know, quoteunquote famous, they're too big, that

(54:00):
why would they come on my show? And the answer is, you don't
know, you don't know, likego ahead and ask and so. On
the one hand, I do havea wish list, but on the other
hand, I have a really badshort term memory, so I don't remember
who half of them are. Ijust I this right now, what we're
doing is why I do it?Oh yeah, there's so much magic and

(54:20):
connecting with people, especially that havebeen referred from someone else, that you
really connect with, and I actuallyextend out from a lot of my best
guests. I always ask, youknow, my guests, please introduce me
to the most interesting person you know, and it can just be one or
if there's anybody else that you comeacross that you feel has a good daddy
story or is an oversharer, sendthem my way, right for sure?

(54:50):
You know, And I tell peoplethat, you know, the way that
you get up to five hundred episodesis by being a pod slut, like
I'll talk anybody. I never sayno, And it's not true, like
I do have a very firm nolist. It's a short list, but
there's I have a list of maybeten or fifteen people where I'm like,
absolutely not ever, because you havesome deal breakers, absolutely because of the

(55:14):
way things have gone with recordings orthe way I have watched them interact online,
And it has nothing to do withtheir like, say, for instance,
political views like I vary. Recentlyhad somebody on where I disagreed with
almost everything he said on my show, but politely, you know what I

(55:36):
mean. He and I were ableto have a civil conversation where we were
coming at things from very different angles, and I was like, cool,
that's all they care about, Like, I don't care if you agree with
me. In fact, it's kindof fun when you don't. Sometimes but
just don't be a dick about it. You know. I can interview both
sides for sure. And I've evenhad guests who might not like my dad's

(55:57):
reaction, and I gave them theopportunity to come back and talk about that
with my dad, but they decidednot to. I had. I had
one guy come on, and I'mgoing to say this in a respectful way.
You know, he's done a lotof research around abuse and I don't
even know if I should use theword, but like pedophiles, and he
specializes in that, and he's sayingthat if children who do this before eighteen

(56:24):
seek therapy, that a lot oftimes they can change their behavior. And
from my dad's experience and the peoplethat he has known in his life,
my dad didn't one hundred percent agreewith that research and questioned it. He
said, you know, the peoplethat he's known that have been abusers have
continued to abuse abuse. And myguest felt like my Dad was questioning his

(56:49):
research and pretty much everything that he'sdiscovered that wasn't necessarily the case, you
know, it was just from mydad's experience. He didn't really see ied
eye with the guest, and Iwas like, look, if you'd like
to come back on and have afriendly debate. Yeah, I welcome you
to do that, and I'll bringmy dad back on. And he's happy
to tell you about his experiences.But he was done. He's like,

(57:09):
if I would have known her,dad was going to just like disprove everything
that I said. So I leftit at that. I'm clench buddy,
jeez. I mean it's like Iwas really upfront with the like the guy
that came on my show, likebefore I hit record. It didn't take
long, you know, just thenjust the title of his book, I
was like, oh, you andI do not see the world the same

(57:30):
way. And so before we recorded, I was like, look, I'm
not a promotional platform for you,Like I'll give you the opportunity to introduce
yourself, describe your work, thatkind of thing, but if I think
that you're full of it, Iwill tell you. So I just will
do so politely, Like I don'tthink we need to scream and yell at
each other. And he's like,oh, well, lots of people scream

(57:52):
and yell at me. I'm like, no, no, that's not me,
Like that's I will not scream andyell at you. Like, look,
I've worked in a prison, I'vebeen on the stand with aggressive prosecutors
or defense attorneys, like I knowhow to handle this politely. I just
need you to know that we're nothere for me to kiss your ass.
That's so cool. I can't waitto interview you about your time in the

(58:12):
prison. I'm sure, just likepeople love to know about my Springer chapter,
everybody wants to know about your prisonchapter. They think it's a lot
more fun than it was, ora lot more risky, or a lot
more whatever. But I mean,that's that's part of why I started the
show in the first place, wasto describe what forensic psychology is and is
not. And then over time Ipulled farther and farther away from true crime

(58:35):
and into more just society and culture, Like, let's just talk to anybody
instead of keeping it in that onebox. I'm curious, like, do
you think people that are very intotrue crime have experienced abuse or no?
I don't think himself. What doyou think the fascination with it is.
I think it depends on the personthat's true. In many k there there

(59:01):
is a history in some form,you know, And I would certainly say
that like. One of the thingsthat pushed me down the road into forensic
psychology is I am a sexual assaultsurvivor when I was twelve years old,
and so I spent a lot oftime not blaming myself. My mother did

(59:24):
that, so I didn't need tobut rethinking what could I have done differently?
And I needed that. I neededto know at what decisions did I
make wrong, what things, becauseeven though I was only twelve, you
make decisions, and I needed thatas part of my recovery so that I

(59:45):
had some sense of power and agencyin the world, and so that I
felt like this won't happen in thatexact way again to me because I know
where I made the wrong choice,and next time I can make a different
choice. And that also allowed meto be a better parent when I when
I knew my children were going tobe in a similar situation in their lives,

(01:00:07):
it's for me. It happened tosummer camp. And so when my
kids wanted to go to summer camp, I was like, Okay, but
sit down, we're going to havea talk about certain things that should and
should not happen in ways that youshould and should not respond that you know
you can say no, you shouldnot go off alone with somebody things like
that, And that was how Icoped. And then ultimately you know,

(01:00:30):
and and and and an number ofsteps leading into well, I know I
can survive this. I know Ican cope with this. And I had
to find the humanity in the Hewasn't even a man. He was sixteen
to my twelve. That assaulted me, like I had to find the humanity

(01:00:52):
in that and to understart to understandthat in order to live in the world
and to be around other men andto be alone and not because I used
to like for a long time,I didn't tell my parents for years because
my my mom's not a healthy personand my father was sort of he wanted

(01:01:12):
to be. My father always saidthe right things, and my mother always
did the right things, and sobetween the two of them there was like
mostly functional adult, right, Andso it just was I was on my
own with it for a long time, and I used to pace in my
house if I was home alone,I would pace between windows in my house
and watch the headlights of cars comingup my street to wait for my parents

(01:01:36):
to get home, and if theyif I felt like they were going too
slow, I would feel like that'sthat's him, that's him coming. And
so I needed to sort of understandlike what is actual post defense behavior like,
and what is why do people dothis or why wouldn't they do this?
You know, how do you determinewhether someone is likely to be a

(01:01:59):
say, partner or not? Thingslike like I that's those are things that
I needed. And so once Ikind of felt comfortable in that mindset,
it was like, well, Imight as well do this for a living,
because like, we've proven that Ican cope with facing the scariest stuff,
So let's face some of the notscary stuff to me. Like I

(01:02:20):
don't find theft scary, I don'tfind drugs scary. I could sit down
with those people. I don't findmurder especially scary because I understand by now
who is likely to be a riskto me and who is not, So
you know, you might as welldo that. And so that's kind of
what landed me down that path myself. So some people are into true crime
because of a history. Others Ithink that they tell themselves that if they

(01:02:45):
learn enough about what perpetrators are,as though there's such a thing as a
perpetrator you know, or if theylearn enough about what victims do wrong,
that all they have to do islearn enough about it and listen to enough
stories and they'll magically know and besafe. And it's like that's actually there's
not like sorry, but that's nothow it works. There's no such thing

(01:03:07):
as I, you know, afactor X that all perpetrators have, or
you know, your skirt was tooshort, or you drink too much and
so therefore you asked for it.Like, there's no such thing of any
of that. But I think thatthere's a that's a story we tell ourselves,
is that if we know enough aboutthe topic, then somehow will master

(01:03:29):
it interesting And I'm also wondering howaccurate are the perpetrators portrayed? Wildly inaccurate,
wildly inaccurate. And we can tellstories about that all day long for
another day. But like the thethe people that I mean the US over
and car storrates so much, andso the people that are in prison,

(01:03:52):
there's just people. And some ofthem had no idea they were committing crimes
at the time, you know,and others knew it. But like drug
crimes are sometimes necessary for way oflife, sex work is necessary for ways
of life, and so it maybe illegal and you may get caught and
so you end up in prison.But that's just bad luck. You know

(01:04:15):
that. They there's no such thingas bad seed or you know, or
that sort of thing. So andso some of the people I met in
prison were amazing. I would havethem babysit my children if like I didn't
actually, but I would have.I would have been fine with living next
door to them. I don't believein sex offender registries because they are false

(01:04:36):
assurances of safety. And you know, there are people who are registered sex
offenders that I've had in my homeand I would have around my kids because
I know how it actually works,not how the media portrays it. And
then there are other people where I'mlike, Okay, let's let's just double
check and make sure that doors arereally locked for that guy. I mean,

(01:04:57):
I did interview a former KKK andnow he does reform other KKK and
hate group members. And I evenasked my dad, I was like,
would you have him over for dinner? Right? Like, sometimes you think
you know people, but do youactually I mean, the people that you
are highest risk of are the closestto you, Like there's stranger danger is

(01:05:23):
There's no such thing. It's justa cute catchphrase. Your your children are
at the highest risk of harm ofany sort by their teachers, their clergy,
their coaches, their neighbors, thepeople. How do you how do
you hurt somebody by getting close tothem? How do you get close to
him by knowing them, by havinga connection, and so the sex offender

(01:05:45):
registry, those are people that,like you're if you're checking and you're just
scrolling through and you're reading strangers names, those people aren't going after your kids.
You gotta talk to your kids andtell them how to talk to you
and set you know, how tosay no if they can, but also
how to tell you afterwards if theycan't. Like it's things like that that

(01:06:08):
the real world is not reflected accuratelyin media, whether you call it true
crime podcasting or whether you call it, you know, Oxygen network or that
kind of thing, like, that'snot what it's like. I will tell
you after interviewing a couple of formerCIA officials and undercover police, I have
been communicating with my kids a lotmore. I don't really have a bottom

(01:06:39):
line moral of the story for thisone, except This is why I do
podcasting. This episode is why Ihaven't thrown in the towel. Despite being
so sick this year and having dayswhere I really couldn't go down the stairs

(01:07:01):
to edit and record and canceling aton of recording sessions because I was too
sick or actively hospitalized or whatever.I have definitely given thought to putting the
podcast on hiatus, and then Ihave moments like this, episodes like this,
and I realize I'm not done yet. I've slowed way down and I

(01:07:26):
hope to be able to pick upthe pace again. But I'm not stopping
because moments like this are what makeit all worth it to me. So
Rena, thank you so much forrecording twice. And I also really appreciate
I'm on an episode of her show. It gets a little intense because when

(01:07:53):
one talks about fathers, I havea complicated history there, but I think
listening there too. So check outher podcast links her in the show notes,
and just thank you for being anamazing human being. I really appreciate
it. I appreciate it. Benoafor the introduction, and thank you for

(01:08:16):
reminding me why I do this.Thank you guys for listening special shout out
to Marianne. She's working through myback catalog and leaving comments on my website
as she goes, so it's sortof the blogger equivalent of live tweeting,
although it's not tweeting anymore. Idon't know whatever, you know what I

(01:08:40):
mean the comments as episodes go.Ah, Marianne, I love it so
much. You have no idea,this idea that there's still relevancy for me
out in the world even when I'mmiserable and spending a lot of time in
my head and feeling pretty useless.Thank you so much. I hope you

(01:09:02):
guys are hanging in there. Ireally I don't know from day to day
how I'm going to be. It'snot been great, like it's I'm not
in a good headspace and my bodymy health is not good. But I'm
doing the best I can. AndI mean, holy shit, I'm just

(01:09:25):
a couple episodes away from five hundred, so we'll get there. I'll be
back. And I really appreciate yourpatience and support and just your presence out
in the world. You matter,who, wh