August 29, 2023 • 54 mins
Lots of us went through school thinking of history as just a series of facts to memorize for the test... but it actually matters on a greater scale, and kids are fully able to understand that.
Guest: Barbara Ann Mojica
Books: Amazon page
....................
Promo: Madison on the Air
Disclaimer: Kennedy Phillips
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/
....................
Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast
Sponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 25% off)
Sponsor: Komuso Design (code bliss15 for 15% off)
Sponsor: Horrific Hope Film Festival 2024 (code bliss24 for 15% off submission)
Guest: Barbara Ann Mojica
Books: Amazon page
....................
Promo: Madison on the Air
Disclaimer: Kennedy Phillips
Music: Jake Pierle -- https://jakepierle.bandcamp.com/
....................
Ignorance Was Bliss online: https://linktr.ee/iwbpodcast
Sponsor: Bath By Bex (code CBDkate for 25% off)
Sponsor: Komuso Design (code bliss15 for 15% off)
Sponsor: Horrific Hope Film Festival 2024 (code bliss24 for 15% off submission)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
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That's eight zero zero two seven threeeight two five five. Remember, whatever
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to listen you matter. Hey,this is Kate. It's been about nine
(01:57):
years plus of few months since Iwent on permanent disability. I did it
because I broke my back, whichI do not recommend, and the response
from the people around me was reallyweird and varied. Many people said,
(02:19):
and I think they meant, oh, I would love to do nothing but
sit on the couch all day.And let me tell you right now,
it's awful. That's so minimizing,and the experience is so isolating, and
so no. No, you maythink it's fun for a week, for
(02:43):
a vacation or something, but it'sactually pretty miserable when you think that this
is it, This is my wholelife and this is all I will ever
be. And you have to kindof go through a grieving process a little
bit, because there comes a pointwhere you're like, Okay, now,
what what am I going to donow? How am I going to fill
(03:04):
my time and keep my brain activeand find new things about life to enjoy
and basking to an extent? Andfor me, I started a podcast.
Now let me be clear that Imoped for a solid four years first,
(03:25):
which I do not recommend as well. But I started a podcast and that's
what has allowed me to feel relevantin the world again, and smart and
competent and some really important things toself esteem. A similar process can happen
(03:45):
to people when they retire. Whatnow, What are you going to do
now? Because especially with retirement,you still feel pretty much the same physically
as you did when you were working. You just don't get up and go
to the same job. So howdo you keep your brain active and how
(04:08):
do you find joy and intrigue andengagement in the world around you. My
guest today, her name is Barbaraand Mohika. She writes children's books.
She was a teacher at many levels, and she'll tell you about it.
(04:30):
The different levels and the different stylesof teaching that she had to do,
And then she saw a gap inthe available history books that were out there
for kids. She saw kids learninghistory because they were told to individual facts,
to memorize and spit out and forget, and she wanted to make it
(04:56):
more engaging and pull kids in andhelp them to see that there's a point
to all this. There's a reasonwe need to know this stuff. Are
you sure you really want to know? This? Is ignorance? Was blessed?
(05:42):
My name is Barbara Anne Mohica.I am an author, a retired
educator, a historian, parent,and a grandparent. And my mission is
to entertain, inspire, and empowerour kids to become the best citizens they
can be and to develop the skillsthey need to become the leaders of tomorrow.
(06:10):
And my model is, if youdon't know your history, you don't
know what you're talking about, whichis which is accurate. I think there's
been a real movement I don't knowif that's the right word, but I
feel like toward sort of I don'tknow if it's podcasts or if it's it's
(06:32):
the way media has gone or something, but but I feel like people are
getting more into niche history and pelpeeling back the corners and being less sort
of whitewashed with history. Are youseeing that from your end? Well,
what I'm seeing from my end,at least here in America, especially here
in America, is that we've gottenaway from really teaching history, at least
(07:00):
at the elementary school level. Andthe way history is taught, it's taught
as an incidental rather than as amain part of the curriculum, which it
used to be when I was growingup, and we learned about our history,
and we learned about its relationship toourselves personally, as as members of
(07:27):
a family, as members of acommunity, and then as members of the
world at large. And today wedon't teach our children how to think as
much as we teach them what tothink. And as a retired educator,
(07:48):
I have spent actually I've spent justabout forty years in the education system.
I started teaching when I was twentyyears old, and I have seen it
go through so many changes. Todaywe have the common Core curriculum, we
have the uniform standards, we haveteach to the test, and we spend
(08:16):
an inordinate amount of time cramming factsinto kids' heads that are meaningless to them
because they can't see the relationships,they can't understand the contexts, they can't
make the connections, they can't analyzeand interpret. They're just presented with a
(08:39):
bunch of information. And that's whyI think so many children, especially when
they're younger. Usually as they getolder they appreciate history a lot more,
but when they're younger, they seeit as a bunch of isolated, kind
of unrelated facts. And really,if you go back to the ancient Greek,
(09:01):
the word history comes from historia,which means to seek or to look
into, to inquire, to tryto find knowledge. And that's what I
see history as. And I seehistory itself as more of an evolution rather
than a series of different packages.So I don't see history as you know,
(09:28):
we're looking at American history, we'relooking at medieval history, we're looking
at Asian history, well, we'relooking at ancient history. No, it's
all a progression and it's all relatedone thing to the other. Yeah,
And I think that the more thatyou allow there to be that inner play,
the more open we become ideas thanin concepts and communication and modern day
(09:54):
stuff like I feel like kids.You know, I've got elementary school.
I guess no more just finished.But elementary school kids seem to feel like
history is back then, and It'slike no, it's it's still going on
right now. We're living it rightnow, and it extends into the future.
And when you put it as alist of facts, and when you
(10:15):
put it as only us history oronly you know, when we separate us
history from world history, that kindof thing that we lose perspective. And
it allows this sense of like livingtotally in the moment, as though thousands
of years of recorded and unrecorded historyit didn't happen. And that's another one
(10:39):
of the things I talk about whenI talk about the reasons for studying history.
One of the reasons for studying historyis it gives us a moral identity.
It gives us a sense of self. But it also shows us how
our culture, our our experiences relateto other people. They might be different,
(11:05):
but they all connect in some way. Because when you study history,
what you're really doing and I'm alwaystalking about this, the critical thinking,
the piece of how so today youknow, we throw that term critical around
and a lot of people associate criticalthinking with a negative term, you know,
(11:28):
we're being critical of someone where we'relooking at what's bad, what's wrong?
What are the cons of something?But really what critical thinking is is
having the ability to look at aproblem or a situation from multiple perspectives and
(11:50):
then being able to evaluate all ofthe information and come up with a range
of possibility. In history, veryoften the answer is there is no answer.
There are a range of possibilities.And it's a lot like science.
You know, you start with ahypothesis or a problem, and then you
(12:15):
test the variables, you see whatworks, what doesn't work, and then
you come up with a solution.But a lot of times and science,
you can't get that answer or youget something very different from what you expected
to get or expected to see asthe outcome. So that's what I'm talking
(12:37):
about when I'm talking about teaching criticalthinking, and we have to do that
in our schools and all subjects becausekids, again, they're so busy trying
to, you know, just meetthat standard so that they can move on
to something else. Do they knowwhat they're moving on to, do they
(12:58):
understand how they got there? Youknow, those those basic questions that kids
ask us when they're little, thewho, the why, the when,
the whare the why? We asparents and teachers have to teach our children
how to do that. And Ithink a lot of parents are guilty of
(13:20):
that as well. You know,they don't ask the open ended questions.
They don't encourage kids to come totheir own conclusion to figure out the problem.
We have the you know, thehelicopter parent who's always hovering around the
child and wants to protect that childat all costs. And oh, I
(13:41):
don't want the child to make amistake. I don't want the child to
fail. But that's part of learning. A lot of times we learn a
lot more from our failures than wedo from our successes. And I one
of the things that I'm always talkingabout with parents is they have to teach
children what I call the like creativelife skills that go along with that critical
(14:07):
thinking, Like let a child becurious, let a child explore different passions,
even if you think the child isnot going to be successful, let
the child try it. It's allpart of that, you know, learning
who we are and where we wantto go, and you know, let
(14:28):
them learn to analyze things, justhaving little conversations at the dinner time table,
you know, what do you thinkabout that? Don't just ask them
why did you do at school today? You know what happened, and oh
why do you think that was right? Or why do you think that was
wrong? Or what would you havedone? Would you have done something differently
(14:52):
or would you have done it thesame way? You know, just letting
them develop thinking on their own.I think the best kind of parent is
a parent who's more of a mentora teacher than that authoritarian figure. You
(15:13):
know. A parent is I thinkmore successful when the parent learns to listen
as well as talk. A lotof parents do a lot of talking and
they don't do enough listening. Andwe can understand our children a lot better
if we just take some more timeto listen to what they're saying. Maybe
(15:37):
we'll agree with them, maybe wewon't. But negotiation is a skill that
we have to teach them as well. And we have to have them understand
that there's given take between adults andchildren as well. Not that we're going
to let them rule the house,but we have to have them learn by
(16:00):
doing, you know, so they'lllearn leadership if they're given an opportunity to
sometimes take that initiative and not alwaysbe told this is the way we're going
to do it. There's that senseof fear almost with the helicopter parenting that
I've always kind of looked at likeit's almost obviously you can see the physical
(16:23):
representation when it's the parent hovering overthe kid on the playground, But when
I know of parents who do theirkids' school work for them, for instance,
and it's like, go ahead andlet the kid you don't you don't
it's okay to say I don't know. I mean, I feel like that's
one of the sort of problems it'scertainly with social media if nothing else right
(16:47):
now, that the discourse and itwill lack thereof that kids see, is
this inability to say, I don'tknow. I don't agree with you,
but I don't know why. Letme explain how I think? Can you
explain how you think? That sortof back and forth that starts with an
openness of hey, I don't knoweverything, that's okay, and instead everybody's
got to sort of speak in allcaps and have declarative sentences. And I
(17:12):
think social media has exacerbated that problemso much because there was so much pressure
for kids to fit in with thatcrowd, and when they're on social media,
they want to have that sense ofbelonging, particularly kids when they get
to that middle school age period whereall of a sudden, it is just
(17:37):
so important to be accepted. Andwhat does social media do it? They're
reinforced because social media feeds them accordingto the algorithms, So they're going to
keep getting that information from the groupthat they have interact acted with most and
(18:02):
they're never going to see that otherside. They're not going to see people
who disagree with them, and thatgives them a false sense of reality too.
They they don't learn to tell thedifference between fact and opinion. You
know, all social media really isjust one opinion after the other being reinforced.
(18:26):
And after a while, it's hardfor kids to understand that that all
important opinion isn't the bill and theend all. In fact, it could
be very very wrong. It couldbe leading them in the wrong direction,
and there's there's kind of no gettingout of it because it's it's just an
(18:48):
endless, endless cycle. And thenkids that start feeling pressured and mentally depressed,
and it's just it's it's really awful. So I think social media,
while it has of course allowed usto communicate so much more effectively, it
(19:14):
has also done as a reputable harmin the sense that our communication now is
not really authentic. So when youstudy history, you want to study those
primary sources, the letters, thethe the communication that that person or those
(19:34):
people involved in an event we're usingat the time. It's social media is
just the opposite of that. Sowe're taking the now and making that the
reality. Well it's you know,there's there's ways in which the social media
is someday going to be the primarysource material I think for people. You
(19:59):
know, there are when the whenthe war in Ukraine broke out, I
was able to watch things on socialmedia that I couldn't watch on curated news,
scripted journalistic news. You know,I was able to see boots on
the ground stuff that I couldn't seeother places. But I'm an adult and
I do value critical thinking quite abit, and so that's a different thing.
(20:22):
I you know, it's tough withkids, and especially with COVID happening
at the same time, So you'vegot kids that are physically isolated it and
then they're they're in these little echochambers and it's a weird, difficult thing.
And I'm watching, you know,my youngest just finished elementary school,
so she's going in the middle school. And I've got a thirteen year old
(20:42):
as well, and so those twoare right in that the hot plate right
now of trying to figure out whatdo we do now that the world is
opening back up and they don't reallyknow. It's still awkward for them to
be like around other kids and backand forth, and there's still it almost
feels like there's regression at times.I look at kids, you know,
(21:03):
outside of the school or whatever,where it's like they're they're going back to
that that Toddler style of parallel playwhere you just see a line of kids
each on their own phone rather thaninteracting with each other. And I don't
think. I don't know what theanswer is because simply saying hey, that's
not actually interacting. When it youget up and do something that doesn't work
(21:25):
with kids, but you know,it becomes this weird push and pull,
this tension on. Yeah, Iknow that that's your your little self soothing
thing, or that's what the coolkids are doing or whatever. But let's
maybe put their phones down, let'sgive it a shot. What do you
say? And that's one of theironies of social media. And in an
effort to make it so easy forpeople to come together and reality is so
(21:51):
many respects, it has made peoplemore isolated and you know, on their
own spending just spending so much timetime in a room on a phone with
social media, or sitting at adinner table and looking at the phone and
instead of interacting in conversation with familyand friends. It's it's just done the
(22:14):
opposite of what it was intended todo in the first place. Yeah,
I found my my most successful placeto get the kids to talk sort of
unguardedly or you know, or onin an unstructured way is in the car.
In the car, you know,because I've got a captive audience.
(22:36):
They're literally strapped down and I cansort of look, just put your phone
on them, talk to me forthe drive, you know, to the
to the grocery store or whatever.And usually we end up having more of
a conversation or a longer conversation andthey won't notice that. I'll go around
the block two or three times justto sort of extend at that time a
little bit. And then that waywhen when they were home, and I
(22:57):
can be like, okay, nowyou can, you can have some some
screen time. It's fine, youknow, and it doesn't feel as restrictive
because I think that's the thing,is that there's a that that same sort
of helicopter parent that wants to beperceived as protective and perfect. They want
to say, yeah, everything's bad, I don't give my kids too much
screen time. And it's like,well, now you're either if you if
(23:19):
you make it forbidden that makes itmore tantalizing to them, or you're being
hypocritical and your kid is seeing you. You tell your friends, oh no,
Johnny doesn't have any screen time,and Johnny's like, I spend seventeen
hours a day on the phone,Mom, what are you're talking about?
Neither of those are good, right, So, like it's it's about moderation,
(23:41):
which is hard. You know.Now I'm fully owned up to being
addicted to my phone as well,and it's that same like I have.
I was just talking to my husbandthis morning. I have a rule about
Facebook that has saved me probably ananeurysm by this point, is that I
will open Facebook once a day.I kind of feel like I have to
(24:03):
for the podcast anyway, to youknow, publicity and connection and that kind
of thing. But I will,I will. I will always check in
with my Facebook group, I willalways do certain other things. But then
when I if I start to scrollmy timeline. My rule is that I
scroll until I see something that irritatesme, and I get irritated by thoughtlessness
(24:26):
or deliberate acts of cruelty or unkindness. So you can be wrong, I
can disagree with you, or Ican be you know whatever. That's fine,
that doesn't bother me at all.But when I have somebody who's spouting
in some way on Facebook that irritatesme, I don't stop and engage with
him. I don't let myself getpulled into that wretext anymore. That that's
(24:49):
my sign, okay, time toturn Facebook off. And I've found that
I'm a lot less conflicted about itnow because it's just like, okay,
no, this is a publicity toolfor me. But I don't know how
it would be if I didn't havethe podcast. I don't know if I
would have quit them all yet ornot. It's a tough calls. It
is tough, but I again,growing up in such a different atmosphere of
(25:17):
having to, you know, goand physically do that research and gather the
information, go to the library togather the information, write notes, put
it together. You know, Ican see all the steps. Whereas now,
although it's very convenient from myself aswell, when I'm doing research for
(25:41):
something, it's very convenient to goto Google, and but I know how
to scroll through the different pages andlook for different points of view. Kids
don't do that. They go toGoogle, they see the first answer and
whoop, though Google said it,it must be the answer. So again
they're not doing their critical thinking.They're not in analyzing, inferring, shifting
(26:08):
through and interpreting. They're just say, well, there it is. That's
gotta be it. And again it'sa crutch. It's it has become just
like, well, this is itand this is what we need to do.
So it's kind of like a shortcut too. Yeah, yeah,
(26:30):
I don't I don't know. It'sgonna be interesting to see where it goes.
You know. I had not beenon as active online much of my
adult life, and then when Istarted out the podcast, I have been
significantly So the past five years,I've been online quite a lot, and
I've seen this chaos happen. Youknow, when I when I started the
(26:52):
podcast at the so just twenty eighteen, there was Facebook and there was Twitter.
And Facebook because where you sort ofwent and engaged one on one with
people that you knew, and Twitterwas more like the publicity side of things.
And so Facebook was where I wouldgo to talk with people, and
Twitter was where I would go tolike announce episodes and look for guests.
(27:15):
And then everything got messed up,and now I don't know three quarters of
my Facebook friends list, like ina personal way, I wouldn't recognize them
if I saw them in public.And Twitter is becoming increasingly assessed pool and
so you know, it's it's Idon't know what. I can't predict.
(27:37):
What are we going to have?You know, I are we going to
have more and more and more apps? Are we going to have some sort
of implosion and it all comes backaround to everybody playing in the same playground
again or what like, I don'tI don't know. It'll be really interesting
to see, it will be Ithink eventually we're going to reach that point
of over satuation and people just cameand deal with all of that many,
(28:03):
and I think eventually it will narrowitself down again, but it is almost
impossible to predict. And again,kids don't have the ability to regulate all
of that. They just go towhatever the newest trend is, and okay,
I'm going to try that. Whatwas TikTok is like really really popular
(28:26):
with the kids. But and thenof course the fact that they could be
giving up all of their information toa foreign government is certainly not a good
aspect of it either. I personallyI don't use TikTok at all. I
won't use it. I use socialmedia mostly for marketing my books, but
(28:53):
even more important than that, Iuse it to share information and resources with
parents and teachers. And when COVIDhit, I became much more active with
YouTube because I started doing supplementary teachingvideos and gathering information for kids, because
(29:15):
so many kids were isolated at homeand so many parents were dissatisfied with the
education that they were getting online.So I was trying to supplement that.
And of course it's kind of snowballs. And you know, I do book
reviews because I'm interested in children's literature, other children's literature course as well as
(29:40):
my own, so I review books, and then I collect resources for parents,
and that kind of snowballs into Pinterestand getting book lists and things together
and getting the tools and strategies forparents and teachers. H is very time
(30:00):
consuming too, so you know,I have to kind of juggle between the
writing the books, reviewing, sharingwith parents and teachers, talking with other
authors. So it's kind of like, uh, juggling my day and trying
(30:21):
to keep in mind the importance ofyou know, my mission is just getting
kids to not only be entertained andinspired by history, but to learn how
to think more critically and to becomemore successful so that when they grow up
they'll be empowered to be productive citizens, and also to develop the leadership skills
(30:51):
that we're certainly going to need forthem to pick up the banner, you
know, and and continue where weleft. Or when did you've been You've
been writing for quite a while.It's not your books started. Yes,
I'm twenty twelve, so so youyou had a good head start over on
(31:14):
that end. You you were nota COVID hobbyist. No, no,
no, definitely not. I startedwriting right away. It's I retired and
you know, about a month ortwo after I retired, I was already,
like I think, I was writingarticles for a local news magazine,
(31:34):
like short like history articles. ButI wanted to stay in touch with the
kids, and I wanted to kindof combine my passion. So my undergraduate
and graduate degrees or in history,so I wanted to combine that with the
(31:56):
with teaching and a and communicating theimportance of history to kids. So my
husband, who is an illustrator,as an artist who's been during since five,
he does writing as well, buthe has always done artwork and he
has some experience working with children aswell, so he developed a cartoon character
(32:23):
to be my narrator. So thatwas how I was going to make it
fun and exciting and interesting. Andthe cartoon character is based on a younger
version of me, So that littlemishistory is kind of like somebody that I
feel is funny because the features areexaggerated, but the kids can all kind
(32:45):
of see a part of them inher, so she kind of pulls them
into the story and it becomes veryinteractive. So I use a litt of
that kind of critical thinking technique inmy book. I get kids to think
about problems, to answer questions aboutthings that are very current, the rights
(33:10):
of minorities, Native American rights,or African American rights, or environments.
So when I'm talking about a nationalpark, I might be talking about in
Sequoia National Park. It's the mostpolluted park in the whole national system because
of the pollution in the San JoaquinValley. And I guess the kids,
(33:30):
well, what do they think weshould do about that? Do they have
any ideas? Do they have anysolutions? So I try to bring out
things in history that may not beobvious. And that's why a lot of
the adults will read my books orcome back to me and say, well,
I never knew that, And youknow, I learned something new from
(33:52):
reading this too. So I tryto incorporate a sense of inquirious, sense
of wonder in all of the books. Whether I'm talking about the North Pole,
or I'm talking about military history likethe Intrepid Sier and Space Museum,
(34:13):
or I'm talking about an iconic sitelike the Statue of Liberty, or maybe
even prehistory. I did one ofmy books on the libreatarp Pits, which
goes all the way back to prehistoryforty thousand years ago and brings kids to
an active archaeological site. So Iexpose them to different disciplines and I kind
(34:38):
of let them take the thread thatI give them, because I certainly don't
give them all the information. Theyare picture books that are multidisciplinary, but
they incorporate real photography because in mostcases I do go to the site and
my husband and I do take thephotographs whenever possible. With the North Pole
(35:00):
what is an exception, of course, But so we bring in a multi
media kind of approach which I thinkkids identify within different ways and they can
take it and run. So ifthey're interested in a particular aspect of the
book, they can go and findout more. So I want to be
(35:22):
able to take them in many differentdirections wherever they're wherever their interests lies.
Do you have a do you writewith a particular age demographic in mind?
But generally when I go to schoolsand I visit kids in person, I
generally gear it K to six.The independent reading level of the books themselves
(35:50):
tend to be more middle grade becauseI stretch the vocabulary. I always include
a glossary with the more difficult words, but I try to give something to
reach for. So the books appealto kids are at different levels when they're
at different ages. So because they'reso picture rich, little kids like four
(36:14):
and five year olds relate to thepicture and they get into the story that
way, and they can kind ofgrow with the book because as they get
older, they get into more ofthe critical thinking issues and you know,
going into those questions and looking atwhat the question poses and trying to figure
out the solution. So they kindof, I like to say, grow
(36:37):
with the child. So I havefans that are that are three and four,
and then I have you know,fifth, sixth, and seventh graders
who are are just as interested indifferent aspects and for different reasons. How
how long would you ask? Isyour list of like if you had unlimited
(36:58):
time in the limited resources, howmany topics? How many books would you
write? Oh? I would justkeep going. I believe in learning something
new every day and exploring something newevery day. I love to travel.
I've been all over the world.I've I've been to China, I've been
to the Soviet Union prior modern dayRusher. I've been behind the Iron Curtain.
(37:22):
I've been to more than half theStates, and I think it's over
thirty countries. So you know,I spent a lot of time traveling.
Now I do less traveling, butyou know, more writing and other things.
But I would just keep going.I believe learned something new every day,
(37:45):
and you know, pursue that passion. Whatever new interest strikes you,
go for it. Whether you're fouror whether you're ninety four, you can
still I believe in being curious.And is there anything that you would not
(38:05):
touch that you would like, neverwrite about or like. Or you started
a book and then gotten some percentageof the way in and said this is
not for me, this doesn't feelright. No, I've never stopped.
I Usually I will find a pointof interest and I have a few like
kind of in the pipeline of differentstages, and the biggest thing is they
(38:30):
have to be illustrated. So that'swhat actually takes a long time, because
I have to write the script andI don't work from an outline. I
generally would visit the site, comeback and do research, and then coordinate
my research with what I physically sawat the site. Then I would I
(38:52):
write the book and I just keeprefining, edit, edit, edit.
Because it's a children's book, Igenerally rewrite until I can get it down
to that manageable picture book size,which is usually less than seven hundred and
fifty words. So it takes alot of rewriting, So generally it's three
(39:15):
to six months for the whole process, because the illustration then takes time.
My illustrator will he'll take the scriptand then he'll do thumbnails, and after
the thumbnails, he'll get into moreelaborate sketching with the background and laying it
(39:40):
out, designing it the pictures,the layout, and then drawing the character
little Misshistory and interposed closing her withinthe pages. And it's usually up pretty
finished when I hand over the script, but sometimes his village vision of the
(40:01):
illustration is a little different in theway he wants to get that image across,
and sometimes I have to do minorrewriting to accommodate the sequence or or
that actual visual message that's going tocoordinate with the text, because of course
(40:22):
in a picture book, you're showinga lot in addition to what I'm telling.
So again, even though it's ashort book, the pictures also extend
the text, so there's a lotmore message in the picture as well as
the text well, and you makea good point. I think a lot
(40:43):
of creators content creators of any sort, whether it's writers or visual artists or
podcasters, a lot of times it'sharder to pay back and to edit down
than it is. You know,you start with however many words and cutting
it down down to seven hundred andfifty. You know, I've I've I've
(41:05):
watched my kids get the assignment wherethey're like, I have to come up
with a five hundred word essay sevenAnd I'm thinking, kiddo, enjoy it.
Well, it's hard because there's gonnacome a point in your life where
that's going to be so difficult tobe parsimonious and clear and concise. And
that's a skill in itself, andit's hard, it's and so that's why
(41:29):
I was. I was thinking about, like every podcast or I know has
some length of future episodes in mindthat they're going to do. Often it's
entirely separate podcasts that they're thinking aboutdoing down the road. And you know,
in all of these like someday kindof things, And I'm always curious
about what would what do you whatdoes not on your list at all?
(41:52):
Like what what would you never cover? But it doesn't sound like you have
any hard nose. No, Idon't think I would cover something that I
have very limited experience with, Likea book on Africa or Australia maybe would
(42:14):
be something that I would be morereluctant to tackle, simply because at this
point it would be difficult to coordinatea trip to Australia and then coming back
and doing the research and the coordinatingthe BOTTI I would tend to stick to
(42:39):
something that I've had some previous experiencewith, or like a book again on
China would be interesting, but thenthat topic is just so vast that it
would be difficult to handle. SoI tend to focus more on an important
(43:00):
events site, something that was crucialor critical, or an iconic place like
Ellis Island or the Statue of Libertythat would maybe be something that a wider
range of people would be interested in. Like I do a lot of books
(43:21):
on military history because they encompass world'shistory and so many things, Like The
Intrepid is a book about the VietnamWar. It's a book about World War
Two, it's a book about aviationhistory. It's a book about all kinds
of things that it did in separatefrom war like being a recovery vessel for
(43:47):
NASA and being FBI headquarters during theterrorist attacks. So there's just so many
levels and again so many directions ofinterest that it could take a child too
that I tend to, you know, veer for books in that direction,
(44:09):
or the outdoors like national parks likethe Sequoire book talks about a lot of
science, the trees and how theygrow, and the geology of the park
and the animals that live there.So again, you know, something that
goes in multiple directions and multiple interests, it's hard to it's hard to choose,
(44:32):
I would imagine. I mean,like I know, it's hard for
me with projects to like pick,Okay, this one, this is the
one that I'm gonna put my effortinto. Do you have a method or
an approach or do you just sortof let it choose you If it's a
place that I haven't been before,in some cases it's revisiting something like the
(44:57):
Statue of Liberty I visited as achild, and then of course I went
back there as an adult and hada whole different perspective. So it might
be something like that, or itmight just be something that I see as
an important event like Ellis Island.Of course, it's an important event in
(45:19):
immigration history. I have some booksof local history. My next book is
going to be on the USS Slater, which is it was a destroyer escort
and uh, these escorts played sucha critical part in World War Two,
and this particular ship is being restoredby volunteers who are very, very u
(45:49):
into their mission because most of themhad served in some way. And it's
a site that's very local to me. So I that as an example of
something that will be valuable in teachinglocal history to the children in that area.
So that's why I chose that one. But again I would like to
(46:15):
be able to physically visit, Soit's got to be something that I think
is possible, you know, withininpractical reach at the time. So there
are a lot of different things thatkind of play into which one I'm doing
next or you know, because asI said, I do have a few
scripts that are done but haven't beenfinished or illustrated because something else came along
(46:43):
that I thought, well, betterto do this one. At this point,
you sound like you are doing youknow, when people say what do
you want to be when you growup? It sounds like you really leaned
into the want want to, Likeyou found a thing that you're really into
and this brings you like. Peoplecan't see it because it's an audio medium,
(47:05):
but I can see it. Thisbrings you joy, like you you
look happy when you talk about it, like that's a gift. Yeah,
it has to bring you joy.If it's not, if you don't enjoy
doing it, why bother doing it. I mean, so many of us
spent so much of our lives injobs that are dead end or that we're
(47:27):
not really into. We're doing itbecause we have to support a family.
But I've always been able to dothings that I was interested in. I
was fortunate, and I had mybumps along the road. I've started out
in general education, and I wasvery happy doing that for a while.
(47:47):
I did it for quite some time, and then I realized that there was
so many kids whose needs weren't beingmet with that system that I was in.
So I went back to school againand I took a graduate degree in
special education, and I started workingwith special education kids, and I wound
(48:09):
up at the opposite end of thespectrum. I wound up working with kids
with very severe needs like autism andcrack cocaine babies and fragile X syndrome,
and you know, young children,preschoolers who had really really diverse special severe
(48:31):
needs. And then I learned towork with a whole group of people that
I hadn't worked with before. SoI worked with speech therapists and occupational therapists
and physical therapists and it was greatbecause we were all a team working with
these kids. And I got anopportunity to become the administrator of a special
(48:51):
ed school, so I became aprincipal, went back to school again to
get administrative certification, and I didthat for a few years. And then
there was a big reorganization within thearea in which I was working and huge
layoffs and I won't get into thepolitics, a very well known place and
(49:15):
leader who decided to reorganize everything,and because I was one of the newer
district administrators, I got bounced out. So I had just again. I
went back to teaching for a whileand I became a dual you know,
special educator general educator, and thenon my own I continued to work one
(49:40):
on one which special need kids.So I kind of bounced around. But
these are all things that as Igrew in the profession, I became interested
in different aspects of it, andI found it all overall enriching, you
know, even though sometimes it wasn'tpleasant and it was sometimes unpredictable. I
(50:07):
was able to learn a lot,and I was able to take all of
that, and now I can kindof combine all of that in doing the
writing with my mission as to theimportance of history, but also being able
to share the resources of what Ilearned with parents and teachers at the same
(50:29):
time. So I find it veryrewarding and very fulfilling to be able to
have the opportunity to take all ofthat and now put it together in some
way that I think can be usefulto a lot of people in different ways.
(50:53):
I'm not saying that everyone out therewho finds themselves home full time,
whether it is by choice or byretirement or by disability, needs a hobby.
For real. If you spend yourtime watching TV and listening to podcasts,
(51:16):
or staring at your bird feeder inthe yard, or petting your cat,
walking your dog, whatever, that'senough. Okay, capitalism is way
overrated, and I couldn't care lesshow much you earn or whether you're productive
in your off time. Productivity takesmany forms, and sometimes the best thing
(51:42):
you can do for yourself is absolutelynothing. That being said, I'm not
geared to do absolutely nothing. Idon't cope well with total silence and sitting
still, and that is why Icreate podcast. Even when I'm sick,
even when I don't feel like i'mup to it, I try to find
(52:05):
a way, and I'm doing itright this second, So I'm going to
keep plugging away. And Barbara phoneda way to tie in her own personal
interests with the kids that she thinkscould benefit from that, and I think
that's magical and important. So Barbara, thank you so much for your time
(52:32):
and your way of reaching out tokids and connecting in that way making history
important because I think it does matter. The links to Barbara's website are in
the show notes, so do checkit out. Thank you guys for listening.
(52:53):
I hope you're doing well. Ifyou're in the Northern hemisphere. We're
coming into fall and a lot ofus have kids going back to school and
just sort of daylight is shorter andshorter, and you know, there's I
don't know, there's always this feelingbeing on the cusp, you know,
(53:15):
right before fall starts, right beforespring starts later. And I hope you're
good with the transition and feeling okayand taking care of yourself, whether that
means starting a podcast or watching thebirds in your backyard. You matter.
Is all do you love old timeradio? Yes, you know absolutely nothing
about old time radio? Also yes, And Madison on the Air is for
you. Follow Medisine, a modernday makeup influencer, as she's zapped back
into the golden age of radio.Every episode is stand alone with a wide
variety of genressa choose from like DetectiveNoir. You put the dick in private
(00:22):
dicks, superheroes, So I amin the body of the Green Corn't westerns
saloon fight? Now? This isa Western sci fi. Dude, the
Martian's got a freaking heat. Ray'sclassic characters total, I gotta get that
dog into an obedience class, Reallydigging Dracula's og gost style, What if
I killed freaking Sherlock Holmes? Andmany more actual old time radio scripts adapted.
(00:47):
It's like if the MST three krift tracks. Guys, we're in
the movies they reft start at thebeginning or jump around to any title.
The crabs You New episodes premiere thefirst of every month. Find us wherever
you get your podcasts. This podcastinvolves topics such as violence, sex,
and mental illness. If this mightdisturb you or those around you, please
(01:08):
reconsider it's okay. Privacy and confidentialityhave been protected, with personal information removed
when possible. If you ever feelunsafe or suicidal, please call your local
crisis center, emergency services, ornational hotline. In the US, the
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is eight hundredtwo seven three eight two five five.
(01:32):
That's eight zero zero two seven threeeight two five five. Remember, whatever
it is that you're going through,whatever difficulty that you have to face,
you don't have to deal with italone. There's always someone out there willing
to listen you matter. Hey,this is Kate. It's been about nine
(01:57):
years plus of few months since Iwent on permanent disability. I did it
because I broke my back, whichI do not recommend, and the response
from the people around me was reallyweird and varied. Many people said,
(02:19):
and I think they meant, oh, I would love to do nothing but
sit on the couch all day.And let me tell you right now,
it's awful. That's so minimizing,and the experience is so isolating, and
so no. No, you maythink it's fun for a week, for
(02:43):
a vacation or something, but it'sactually pretty miserable when you think that this
is it, This is my wholelife and this is all I will ever
be. And you have to kindof go through a grieving process a little
bit, because there comes a pointwhere you're like, Okay, now,
what what am I going to donow? How am I going to fill
(03:04):
my time and keep my brain activeand find new things about life to enjoy
and basking to an extent? Andfor me, I started a podcast.
Now let me be clear that Imoped for a solid four years first,
(03:25):
which I do not recommend as well. But I started a podcast and that's
what has allowed me to feel relevantin the world again, and smart and
competent and some really important things toself esteem. A similar process can happen
(03:45):
to people when they retire. Whatnow, What are you going to do
now? Because especially with retirement,you still feel pretty much the same physically
as you did when you were working. You just don't get up and go
to the same job. So howdo you keep your brain active and how
(04:08):
do you find joy and intrigue andengagement in the world around you. My
guest today, her name is Barbaraand Mohika. She writes children's books.
She was a teacher at many levels, and she'll tell you about it.
(04:30):
The different levels and the different stylesof teaching that she had to do,
And then she saw a gap inthe available history books that were out there
for kids. She saw kids learninghistory because they were told to individual facts,
to memorize and spit out and forget, and she wanted to make it
(04:56):
more engaging and pull kids in andhelp them to see that there's a point
to all this. There's a reasonwe need to know this stuff. Are
you sure you really want to know? This? Is ignorance? Was blessed?
(05:42):
My name is Barbara Anne Mohica.I am an author, a retired
educator, a historian, parent,and a grandparent. And my mission is
to entertain, inspire, and empowerour kids to become the best citizens they
can be and to develop the skillsthey need to become the leaders of tomorrow.
(06:10):
And my model is, if youdon't know your history, you don't
know what you're talking about, whichis which is accurate. I think there's
been a real movement I don't knowif that's the right word, but I
feel like toward sort of I don'tknow if it's podcasts or if it's it's
(06:32):
the way media has gone or something, but but I feel like people are
getting more into niche history and pelpeeling back the corners and being less sort
of whitewashed with history. Are youseeing that from your end? Well,
what I'm seeing from my end,at least here in America, especially here
in America, is that we've gottenaway from really teaching history, at least
(07:00):
at the elementary school level. Andthe way history is taught, it's taught
as an incidental rather than as amain part of the curriculum, which it
used to be when I was growingup, and we learned about our history,
and we learned about its relationship toourselves personally, as as members of
(07:27):
a family, as members of acommunity, and then as members of the
world at large. And today wedon't teach our children how to think as
much as we teach them what tothink. And as a retired educator,
(07:48):
I have spent actually I've spent justabout forty years in the education system.
I started teaching when I was twentyyears old, and I have seen it
go through so many changes. Todaywe have the common Core curriculum, we
have the uniform standards, we haveteach to the test, and we spend
(08:16):
an inordinate amount of time cramming factsinto kids' heads that are meaningless to them
because they can't see the relationships,they can't understand the contexts, they can't
make the connections, they can't analyzeand interpret. They're just presented with a
(08:39):
bunch of information. And that's whyI think so many children, especially when
they're younger. Usually as they getolder they appreciate history a lot more,
but when they're younger, they seeit as a bunch of isolated, kind
of unrelated facts. And really,if you go back to the ancient Greek,
(09:01):
the word history comes from historia,which means to seek or to look
into, to inquire, to tryto find knowledge. And that's what I
see history as. And I seehistory itself as more of an evolution rather
than a series of different packages.So I don't see history as you know,
(09:28):
we're looking at American history, we'relooking at medieval history, we're looking
at Asian history, well, we'relooking at ancient history. No, it's
all a progression and it's all relatedone thing to the other. Yeah,
And I think that the more thatyou allow there to be that inner play,
the more open we become ideas thanin concepts and communication and modern day
(09:54):
stuff like I feel like kids.You know, I've got elementary school.
I guess no more just finished.But elementary school kids seem to feel like
history is back then, and It'slike no, it's it's still going on
right now. We're living it rightnow, and it extends into the future.
And when you put it as alist of facts, and when you
(10:15):
put it as only us history oronly you know, when we separate us
history from world history, that kindof thing that we lose perspective. And
it allows this sense of like livingtotally in the moment, as though thousands
of years of recorded and unrecorded historyit didn't happen. And that's another one
(10:39):
of the things I talk about whenI talk about the reasons for studying history.
One of the reasons for studying historyis it gives us a moral identity.
It gives us a sense of self. But it also shows us how
our culture, our our experiences relateto other people. They might be different,
(11:05):
but they all connect in some way. Because when you study history,
what you're really doing and I'm alwaystalking about this, the critical thinking,
the piece of how so today youknow, we throw that term critical around
and a lot of people associate criticalthinking with a negative term, you know,
(11:28):
we're being critical of someone where we'relooking at what's bad, what's wrong?
What are the cons of something?But really what critical thinking is is
having the ability to look at aproblem or a situation from multiple perspectives and
(11:50):
then being able to evaluate all ofthe information and come up with a range
of possibility. In history, veryoften the answer is there is no answer.
There are a range of possibilities.And it's a lot like science.
You know, you start with ahypothesis or a problem, and then you
(12:15):
test the variables, you see whatworks, what doesn't work, and then
you come up with a solution.But a lot of times and science,
you can't get that answer or youget something very different from what you expected
to get or expected to see asthe outcome. So that's what I'm talking
(12:37):
about when I'm talking about teaching criticalthinking, and we have to do that
in our schools and all subjects becausekids, again, they're so busy trying
to, you know, just meetthat standard so that they can move on
to something else. Do they knowwhat they're moving on to, do they
(12:58):
understand how they got there? Youknow, those those basic questions that kids
ask us when they're little, thewho, the why, the when,
the whare the why? We asparents and teachers have to teach our children
how to do that. And Ithink a lot of parents are guilty of
(13:20):
that as well. You know,they don't ask the open ended questions.
They don't encourage kids to come totheir own conclusion to figure out the problem.
We have the you know, thehelicopter parent who's always hovering around the
child and wants to protect that childat all costs. And oh, I
(13:41):
don't want the child to make amistake. I don't want the child to
fail. But that's part of learning. A lot of times we learn a
lot more from our failures than wedo from our successes. And I one
of the things that I'm always talkingabout with parents is they have to teach
children what I call the like creativelife skills that go along with that critical
(14:07):
thinking, Like let a child becurious, let a child explore different passions,
even if you think the child isnot going to be successful, let
the child try it. It's allpart of that, you know, learning
who we are and where we wantto go, and you know, let
(14:28):
them learn to analyze things, justhaving little conversations at the dinner time table,
you know, what do you thinkabout that? Don't just ask them
why did you do at school today? You know what happened, and oh
why do you think that was right? Or why do you think that was
wrong? Or what would you havedone? Would you have done something differently
(14:52):
or would you have done it thesame way? You know, just letting
them develop thinking on their own.I think the best kind of parent is
a parent who's more of a mentora teacher than that authoritarian figure. You
(15:13):
know. A parent is I thinkmore successful when the parent learns to listen
as well as talk. A lotof parents do a lot of talking and
they don't do enough listening. Andwe can understand our children a lot better
if we just take some more timeto listen to what they're saying. Maybe
(15:37):
we'll agree with them, maybe wewon't. But negotiation is a skill that
we have to teach them as well. And we have to have them understand
that there's given take between adults andchildren as well. Not that we're going
to let them rule the house,but we have to have them learn by
(16:00):
doing, you know, so they'lllearn leadership if they're given an opportunity to
sometimes take that initiative and not alwaysbe told this is the way we're going
to do it. There's that senseof fear almost with the helicopter parenting that
I've always kind of looked at likeit's almost obviously you can see the physical
(16:23):
representation when it's the parent hovering overthe kid on the playground, But when
I know of parents who do theirkids' school work for them, for instance,
and it's like, go ahead andlet the kid you don't you don't
it's okay to say I don't know. I mean, I feel like that's
one of the sort of problems it'scertainly with social media if nothing else right
(16:47):
now, that the discourse and itwill lack thereof that kids see, is
this inability to say, I don'tknow. I don't agree with you,
but I don't know why. Letme explain how I think? Can you
explain how you think? That sortof back and forth that starts with an
openness of hey, I don't knoweverything, that's okay, and instead everybody's
got to sort of speak in allcaps and have declarative sentences. And I
(17:12):
think social media has exacerbated that problemso much because there was so much pressure
for kids to fit in with thatcrowd, and when they're on social media,
they want to have that sense ofbelonging, particularly kids when they get
to that middle school age period whereall of a sudden, it is just
(17:37):
so important to be accepted. Andwhat does social media do it? They're
reinforced because social media feeds them accordingto the algorithms, So they're going to
keep getting that information from the groupthat they have interact acted with most and
(18:02):
they're never going to see that otherside. They're not going to see people
who disagree with them, and thatgives them a false sense of reality too.
They they don't learn to tell thedifference between fact and opinion. You
know, all social media really isjust one opinion after the other being reinforced.
(18:26):
And after a while, it's hardfor kids to understand that that all
important opinion isn't the bill and theend all. In fact, it could
be very very wrong. It couldbe leading them in the wrong direction,
and there's there's kind of no gettingout of it because it's it's just an
(18:48):
endless, endless cycle. And thenkids that start feeling pressured and mentally depressed,
and it's just it's it's really awful. So I think social media,
while it has of course allowed usto communicate so much more effectively, it
(19:14):
has also done as a reputable harmin the sense that our communication now is
not really authentic. So when youstudy history, you want to study those
primary sources, the letters, thethe the communication that that person or those
(19:34):
people involved in an event we're usingat the time. It's social media is
just the opposite of that. Sowe're taking the now and making that the
reality. Well it's you know,there's there's ways in which the social media
is someday going to be the primarysource material I think for people. You
(19:59):
know, there are when the whenthe war in Ukraine broke out, I
was able to watch things on socialmedia that I couldn't watch on curated news,
scripted journalistic news. You know,I was able to see boots on
the ground stuff that I couldn't seeother places. But I'm an adult and
I do value critical thinking quite abit, and so that's a different thing.
(20:22):
I you know, it's tough withkids, and especially with COVID happening
at the same time, So you'vegot kids that are physically isolated it and
then they're they're in these little echochambers and it's a weird, difficult thing.
And I'm watching, you know,my youngest just finished elementary school,
so she's going in the middle school. And I've got a thirteen year old
(20:42):
as well, and so those twoare right in that the hot plate right
now of trying to figure out whatdo we do now that the world is
opening back up and they don't reallyknow. It's still awkward for them to
be like around other kids and backand forth, and there's still it almost
feels like there's regression at times.I look at kids, you know,
(21:03):
outside of the school or whatever,where it's like they're they're going back to
that that Toddler style of parallel playwhere you just see a line of kids
each on their own phone rather thaninteracting with each other. And I don't
think. I don't know what theanswer is because simply saying hey, that's
not actually interacting. When it youget up and do something that doesn't work
(21:25):
with kids, but you know,it becomes this weird push and pull,
this tension on. Yeah, Iknow that that's your your little self soothing
thing, or that's what the coolkids are doing or whatever. But let's
maybe put their phones down, let'sgive it a shot. What do you
say? And that's one of theironies of social media. And in an
effort to make it so easy forpeople to come together and reality is so
(21:51):
many respects, it has made peoplemore isolated and you know, on their
own spending just spending so much timetime in a room on a phone with
social media, or sitting at adinner table and looking at the phone and
instead of interacting in conversation with familyand friends. It's it's just done the
(22:14):
opposite of what it was intended todo in the first place. Yeah,
I found my my most successful placeto get the kids to talk sort of
unguardedly or you know, or onin an unstructured way is in the car.
In the car, you know,because I've got a captive audience.
(22:36):
They're literally strapped down and I cansort of look, just put your phone
on them, talk to me forthe drive, you know, to the
to the grocery store or whatever.And usually we end up having more of
a conversation or a longer conversation andthey won't notice that. I'll go around
the block two or three times justto sort of extend at that time a
little bit. And then that waywhen when they were home, and I
(22:57):
can be like, okay, nowyou can, you can have some some
screen time. It's fine, youknow, and it doesn't feel as restrictive
because I think that's the thing,is that there's a that that same sort
of helicopter parent that wants to beperceived as protective and perfect. They want
to say, yeah, everything's bad, I don't give my kids too much
screen time. And it's like,well, now you're either if you if
(23:19):
you make it forbidden that makes itmore tantalizing to them, or you're being
hypocritical and your kid is seeing you. You tell your friends, oh no,
Johnny doesn't have any screen time,and Johnny's like, I spend seventeen
hours a day on the phone,Mom, what are you're talking about?
Neither of those are good, right, So, like it's it's about moderation,
(23:41):
which is hard. You know.Now I'm fully owned up to being
addicted to my phone as well,and it's that same like I have.
I was just talking to my husbandthis morning. I have a rule about
Facebook that has saved me probably ananeurysm by this point, is that I
will open Facebook once a day.I kind of feel like I have to
(24:03):
for the podcast anyway, to youknow, publicity and connection and that kind
of thing. But I will,I will. I will always check in
with my Facebook group, I willalways do certain other things. But then
when I if I start to scrollmy timeline. My rule is that I
scroll until I see something that irritatesme, and I get irritated by thoughtlessness
(24:26):
or deliberate acts of cruelty or unkindness. So you can be wrong, I
can disagree with you, or Ican be you know whatever. That's fine,
that doesn't bother me at all.But when I have somebody who's spouting
in some way on Facebook that irritatesme, I don't stop and engage with
him. I don't let myself getpulled into that wretext anymore. That that's
(24:49):
my sign, okay, time toturn Facebook off. And I've found that
I'm a lot less conflicted about itnow because it's just like, okay,
no, this is a publicity toolfor me. But I don't know how
it would be if I didn't havethe podcast. I don't know if I
would have quit them all yet ornot. It's a tough calls. It
is tough, but I again,growing up in such a different atmosphere of
(25:17):
having to, you know, goand physically do that research and gather the
information, go to the library togather the information, write notes, put
it together. You know, Ican see all the steps. Whereas now,
although it's very convenient from myself aswell, when I'm doing research for
(25:41):
something, it's very convenient to goto Google, and but I know how
to scroll through the different pages andlook for different points of view. Kids
don't do that. They go toGoogle, they see the first answer and
whoop, though Google said it,it must be the answer. So again
they're not doing their critical thinking.They're not in analyzing, inferring, shifting
(26:08):
through and interpreting. They're just say, well, there it is. That's
gotta be it. And again it'sa crutch. It's it has become just
like, well, this is itand this is what we need to do.
So it's kind of like a shortcut too. Yeah, yeah,
(26:30):
I don't I don't know. It'sgonna be interesting to see where it goes.
You know. I had not beenon as active online much of my
adult life, and then when Istarted out the podcast, I have been
significantly So the past five years,I've been online quite a lot, and
I've seen this chaos happen. Youknow, when I when I started the
(26:52):
podcast at the so just twenty eighteen, there was Facebook and there was Twitter.
And Facebook because where you sort ofwent and engaged one on one with
people that you knew, and Twitterwas more like the publicity side of things.
And so Facebook was where I wouldgo to talk with people, and
Twitter was where I would go tolike announce episodes and look for guests.
(27:15):
And then everything got messed up,and now I don't know three quarters of
my Facebook friends list, like ina personal way, I wouldn't recognize them
if I saw them in public.And Twitter is becoming increasingly assessed pool and
so you know, it's it's Idon't know what. I can't predict.
(27:37):
What are we going to have?You know, I are we going to
have more and more and more apps? Are we going to have some sort
of implosion and it all comes backaround to everybody playing in the same playground
again or what like, I don'tI don't know. It'll be really interesting
to see, it will be Ithink eventually we're going to reach that point
of over satuation and people just cameand deal with all of that many,
(28:03):
and I think eventually it will narrowitself down again, but it is almost
impossible to predict. And again,kids don't have the ability to regulate all
of that. They just go towhatever the newest trend is, and okay,
I'm going to try that. Whatwas TikTok is like really really popular
(28:26):
with the kids. But and thenof course the fact that they could be
giving up all of their information toa foreign government is certainly not a good
aspect of it either. I personallyI don't use TikTok at all. I
won't use it. I use socialmedia mostly for marketing my books, but
(28:53):
even more important than that, Iuse it to share information and resources with
parents and teachers. And when COVIDhit, I became much more active with
YouTube because I started doing supplementary teachingvideos and gathering information for kids, because
(29:15):
so many kids were isolated at homeand so many parents were dissatisfied with the
education that they were getting online.So I was trying to supplement that.
And of course it's kind of snowballs. And you know, I do book
reviews because I'm interested in children's literature, other children's literature course as well as
(29:40):
my own, so I review books, and then I collect resources for parents,
and that kind of snowballs into Pinterestand getting book lists and things together
and getting the tools and strategies forparents and teachers. H is very time
(30:00):
consuming too, so you know,I have to kind of juggle between the
writing the books, reviewing, sharingwith parents and teachers, talking with other
authors. So it's kind of like, uh, juggling my day and trying
(30:21):
to keep in mind the importance ofyou know, my mission is just getting
kids to not only be entertained andinspired by history, but to learn how
to think more critically and to becomemore successful so that when they grow up
they'll be empowered to be productive citizens, and also to develop the leadership skills
(30:51):
that we're certainly going to need forthem to pick up the banner, you
know, and and continue where weleft. Or when did you've been You've
been writing for quite a while.It's not your books started. Yes,
I'm twenty twelve, so so youyou had a good head start over on
(31:14):
that end. You you were nota COVID hobbyist. No, no,
no, definitely not. I startedwriting right away. It's I retired and
you know, about a month ortwo after I retired, I was already,
like I think, I was writingarticles for a local news magazine,
(31:34):
like short like history articles. ButI wanted to stay in touch with the
kids, and I wanted to kindof combine my passion. So my undergraduate
and graduate degrees or in history,so I wanted to combine that with the
(31:56):
with teaching and a and communicating theimportance of history to kids. So my
husband, who is an illustrator,as an artist who's been during since five,
he does writing as well, buthe has always done artwork and he
has some experience working with children aswell, so he developed a cartoon character
(32:23):
to be my narrator. So thatwas how I was going to make it
fun and exciting and interesting. Andthe cartoon character is based on a younger
version of me, So that littlemishistory is kind of like somebody that I
feel is funny because the features areexaggerated, but the kids can all kind
(32:45):
of see a part of them inher, so she kind of pulls them
into the story and it becomes veryinteractive. So I use a litt of
that kind of critical thinking technique inmy book. I get kids to think
about problems, to answer questions aboutthings that are very current, the rights
(33:10):
of minorities, Native American rights,or African American rights, or environments.
So when I'm talking about a nationalpark, I might be talking about in
Sequoia National Park. It's the mostpolluted park in the whole national system because
of the pollution in the San JoaquinValley. And I guess the kids,
(33:30):
well, what do they think weshould do about that? Do they have
any ideas? Do they have anysolutions? So I try to bring out
things in history that may not beobvious. And that's why a lot of
the adults will read my books orcome back to me and say, well,
I never knew that, And youknow, I learned something new from
(33:52):
reading this too. So I tryto incorporate a sense of inquirious, sense
of wonder in all of the books. Whether I'm talking about the North Pole,
or I'm talking about military history likethe Intrepid Sier and Space Museum,
(34:13):
or I'm talking about an iconic sitelike the Statue of Liberty, or maybe
even prehistory. I did one ofmy books on the libreatarp Pits, which
goes all the way back to prehistoryforty thousand years ago and brings kids to
an active archaeological site. So Iexpose them to different disciplines and I kind
(34:38):
of let them take the thread thatI give them, because I certainly don't
give them all the information. Theyare picture books that are multidisciplinary, but
they incorporate real photography because in mostcases I do go to the site and
my husband and I do take thephotographs whenever possible. With the North Pole
(35:00):
what is an exception, of course, But so we bring in a multi
media kind of approach which I thinkkids identify within different ways and they can
take it and run. So ifthey're interested in a particular aspect of the
book, they can go and findout more. So I want to be
(35:22):
able to take them in many differentdirections wherever they're wherever their interests lies.
Do you have a do you writewith a particular age demographic in mind?
But generally when I go to schoolsand I visit kids in person, I
generally gear it K to six.The independent reading level of the books themselves
(35:50):
tend to be more middle grade becauseI stretch the vocabulary. I always include
a glossary with the more difficult words, but I try to give something to
reach for. So the books appealto kids are at different levels when they're
at different ages. So because they'reso picture rich, little kids like four
(36:14):
and five year olds relate to thepicture and they get into the story that
way, and they can kind ofgrow with the book because as they get
older, they get into more ofthe critical thinking issues and you know,
going into those questions and looking atwhat the question poses and trying to figure
out the solution. So they kindof, I like to say, grow
(36:37):
with the child. So I havefans that are that are three and four,
and then I have you know,fifth, sixth, and seventh graders
who are are just as interested indifferent aspects and for different reasons. How
how long would you ask? Isyour list of like if you had unlimited
(36:58):
time in the limited resources, howmany topics? How many books would you
write? Oh? I would justkeep going. I believe in learning something
new every day and exploring something newevery day. I love to travel.
I've been all over the world.I've I've been to China, I've been
to the Soviet Union prior modern dayRusher. I've been behind the Iron Curtain.
(37:22):
I've been to more than half theStates, and I think it's over
thirty countries. So you know,I spent a lot of time traveling.
Now I do less traveling, butyou know, more writing and other things.
But I would just keep going.I believe learned something new every day,
(37:45):
and you know, pursue that passion. Whatever new interest strikes you,
go for it. Whether you're fouror whether you're ninety four, you can
still I believe in being curious.And is there anything that you would not
(38:05):
touch that you would like, neverwrite about or like. Or you started
a book and then gotten some percentageof the way in and said this is
not for me, this doesn't feelright. No, I've never stopped.
I Usually I will find a pointof interest and I have a few like
kind of in the pipeline of differentstages, and the biggest thing is they
(38:30):
have to be illustrated. So that'swhat actually takes a long time, because
I have to write the script andI don't work from an outline. I
generally would visit the site, comeback and do research, and then coordinate
my research with what I physically sawat the site. Then I would I
(38:52):
write the book and I just keeprefining, edit, edit, edit.
Because it's a children's book, Igenerally rewrite until I can get it down
to that manageable picture book size,which is usually less than seven hundred and
fifty words. So it takes alot of rewriting, So generally it's three
(39:15):
to six months for the whole process, because the illustration then takes time.
My illustrator will he'll take the scriptand then he'll do thumbnails, and after
the thumbnails, he'll get into moreelaborate sketching with the background and laying it
(39:40):
out, designing it the pictures,the layout, and then drawing the character
little Misshistory and interposed closing her withinthe pages. And it's usually up pretty
finished when I hand over the script, but sometimes his village vision of the
(40:01):
illustration is a little different in theway he wants to get that image across,
and sometimes I have to do minorrewriting to accommodate the sequence or or
that actual visual message that's going tocoordinate with the text, because of course
(40:22):
in a picture book, you're showinga lot in addition to what I'm telling.
So again, even though it's ashort book, the pictures also extend
the text, so there's a lotmore message in the picture as well as
the text well, and you makea good point. I think a lot
(40:43):
of creators content creators of any sort, whether it's writers or visual artists or
podcasters, a lot of times it'sharder to pay back and to edit down
than it is. You know,you start with however many words and cutting
it down down to seven hundred andfifty. You know, I've I've I've
(41:05):
watched my kids get the assignment wherethey're like, I have to come up
with a five hundred word essay sevenAnd I'm thinking, kiddo, enjoy it.
Well, it's hard because there's gonnacome a point in your life where
that's going to be so difficult tobe parsimonious and clear and concise. And
that's a skill in itself, andit's hard, it's and so that's why
(41:29):
I was. I was thinking about, like every podcast or I know has
some length of future episodes in mindthat they're going to do. Often it's
entirely separate podcasts that they're thinking aboutdoing down the road. And you know,
in all of these like someday kindof things, And I'm always curious
about what would what do you whatdoes not on your list at all?
(41:52):
Like what what would you never cover? But it doesn't sound like you have
any hard nose. No, Idon't think I would cover something that I
have very limited experience with, Likea book on Africa or Australia maybe would
(42:14):
be something that I would be morereluctant to tackle, simply because at this
point it would be difficult to coordinatea trip to Australia and then coming back
and doing the research and the coordinatingthe BOTTI I would tend to stick to
(42:39):
something that I've had some previous experiencewith, or like a book again on
China would be interesting, but thenthat topic is just so vast that it
would be difficult to handle. SoI tend to focus more on an important
(43:00):
events site, something that was crucialor critical, or an iconic place like
Ellis Island or the Statue of Libertythat would maybe be something that a wider
range of people would be interested in. Like I do a lot of books
(43:21):
on military history because they encompass world'shistory and so many things, Like The
Intrepid is a book about the VietnamWar. It's a book about World War
Two, it's a book about aviationhistory. It's a book about all kinds
of things that it did in separatefrom war like being a recovery vessel for
(43:47):
NASA and being FBI headquarters during theterrorist attacks. So there's just so many
levels and again so many directions ofinterest that it could take a child too
that I tend to, you know, veer for books in that direction,
(44:09):
or the outdoors like national parks likethe Sequoire book talks about a lot of
science, the trees and how theygrow, and the geology of the park
and the animals that live there.So again, you know, something that
goes in multiple directions and multiple interests, it's hard to it's hard to choose,
(44:32):
I would imagine. I mean,like I know, it's hard for
me with projects to like pick,Okay, this one, this is the
one that I'm gonna put my effortinto. Do you have a method or
an approach or do you just sortof let it choose you If it's a
place that I haven't been before,in some cases it's revisiting something like the
(44:57):
Statue of Liberty I visited as achild, and then of course I went
back there as an adult and hada whole different perspective. So it might
be something like that, or itmight just be something that I see as
an important event like Ellis Island.Of course, it's an important event in
(45:19):
immigration history. I have some booksof local history. My next book is
going to be on the USS Slater, which is it was a destroyer escort
and uh, these escorts played sucha critical part in World War Two,
and this particular ship is being restoredby volunteers who are very, very u
(45:49):
into their mission because most of themhad served in some way. And it's
a site that's very local to me. So I that as an example of
something that will be valuable in teachinglocal history to the children in that area.
So that's why I chose that one. But again I would like to
(46:15):
be able to physically visit, Soit's got to be something that I think
is possible, you know, withininpractical reach at the time. So there
are a lot of different things thatkind of play into which one I'm doing
next or you know, because asI said, I do have a few
scripts that are done but haven't beenfinished or illustrated because something else came along
(46:43):
that I thought, well, betterto do this one. At this point,
you sound like you are doing youknow, when people say what do
you want to be when you growup? It sounds like you really leaned
into the want want to, Likeyou found a thing that you're really into
and this brings you like. Peoplecan't see it because it's an audio medium,
(47:05):
but I can see it. Thisbrings you joy, like you you
look happy when you talk about it, like that's a gift. Yeah,
it has to bring you joy.If it's not, if you don't enjoy
doing it, why bother doing it. I mean, so many of us
spent so much of our lives injobs that are dead end or that we're
(47:27):
not really into. We're doing itbecause we have to support a family.
But I've always been able to dothings that I was interested in. I
was fortunate, and I had mybumps along the road. I've started out
in general education, and I wasvery happy doing that for a while.
(47:47):
I did it for quite some time, and then I realized that there was
so many kids whose needs weren't beingmet with that system that I was in.
So I went back to school againand I took a graduate degree in
special education, and I started workingwith special education kids, and I wound
(48:09):
up at the opposite end of thespectrum. I wound up working with kids
with very severe needs like autism andcrack cocaine babies and fragile X syndrome,
and you know, young children,preschoolers who had really really diverse special severe
(48:31):
needs. And then I learned towork with a whole group of people that
I hadn't worked with before. SoI worked with speech therapists and occupational therapists
and physical therapists and it was greatbecause we were all a team working with
these kids. And I got anopportunity to become the administrator of a special
(48:51):
ed school, so I became aprincipal, went back to school again to
get administrative certification, and I didthat for a few years. And then
there was a big reorganization within thearea in which I was working and huge
layoffs and I won't get into thepolitics, a very well known place and
(49:15):
leader who decided to reorganize everything,and because I was one of the newer
district administrators, I got bounced out. So I had just again. I
went back to teaching for a whileand I became a dual you know,
special educator general educator, and thenon my own I continued to work one
(49:40):
on one which special need kids.So I kind of bounced around. But
these are all things that as Igrew in the profession, I became interested
in different aspects of it, andI found it all overall enriching, you
know, even though sometimes it wasn'tpleasant and it was sometimes unpredictable. I
(50:07):
was able to learn a lot,and I was able to take all of
that, and now I can kindof combine all of that in doing the
writing with my mission as to theimportance of history, but also being able
to share the resources of what Ilearned with parents and teachers at the same
(50:29):
time. So I find it veryrewarding and very fulfilling to be able to
have the opportunity to take all ofthat and now put it together in some
way that I think can be usefulto a lot of people in different ways.
(50:53):
I'm not saying that everyone out therewho finds themselves home full time,
whether it is by choice or byretirement or by disability, needs a hobby.
For real. If you spend yourtime watching TV and listening to podcasts,
(51:16):
or staring at your bird feeder inthe yard, or petting your cat,
walking your dog, whatever, that'senough. Okay, capitalism is way
overrated, and I couldn't care lesshow much you earn or whether you're productive
in your off time. Productivity takesmany forms, and sometimes the best thing
(51:42):
you can do for yourself is absolutelynothing. That being said, I'm not
geared to do absolutely nothing. Idon't cope well with total silence and sitting
still, and that is why Icreate podcast. Even when I'm sick,
even when I don't feel like i'mup to it, I try to find
(52:05):
a way, and I'm doing itright this second, So I'm going to
keep plugging away. And Barbara phoneda way to tie in her own personal
interests with the kids that she thinkscould benefit from that, and I think
that's magical and important. So Barbara, thank you so much for your time
(52:32):
and your way of reaching out tokids and connecting in that way making history
important because I think it does matter. The links to Barbara's website are in
the show notes, so do checkit out. Thank you guys for listening.
(52:53):
I hope you're doing well. Ifyou're in the Northern hemisphere. We're
coming into fall and a lot ofus have kids going back to school and
just sort of daylight is shorter andshorter, and you know, there's I
don't know, there's always this feelingbeing on the cusp, you know,
(53:15):
right before fall starts, right beforespring starts later. And I hope you're
good with the transition and feeling okayand taking care of yourself, whether that
means starting a podcast or watching thebirds in your backyard. You matter.
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