[ENG] ☕ Il Caffe' Dell' Alchimista- Coffee with the Alchemist ⚗️ Jimmy Duker

🧪 Today in our Lab 🥼 we are going to take a coffee ☕ with Jimmy Ducker.

Jimmy Ducker is a young, Dream Caller, Natural Health Researcher and Wellness advocate.
He is really "in" the biohacking world, with a particular focus on Sleep and Recovery.

We will talk about:
#dreams
#naturalremedies
#sleep
#recovery
#essentialoils
#biohacking
#ayurveda #experiment

Episode Sponsored by ThinkFit https://thinkfit.app/ "Live Intentionally - Combine Productivity with Wellness for a Balanced, Meaningful Life."

it LIKE and SUBSCRIBE to support this channel! 😌

Links
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmyducker/
https://www.theholisticlifedoctor.com/

tHe Holistic experiment (coming soon, bookmark NOW!) https://theholisticexperiment.com/


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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to another episode in English ofthe Coffee with the Alchemist. That's rue.
Today we're going to have a coffeewith Jimmy Ducker. Jimmy is a
young dream Color natural health researcher andwellness advocate. He is really into the

(00:25):
biohacking world, the particular reference andfocus on sleep and recovery. On this
episode, we will talk about dreams, natural remedies, sleep recovery and sential
oils and something more about this experimentis running these days. During this episode,

(00:50):
there will be some reference to theYou're Father practice and the holistic experimental
project is running right now from theAlchemist. Yeah, that's me. But
you know, the coffee is ready. So let's go and let's see what
Jimmy has to say about essential oils. Enjoyed the episode, Come Jimmy,

(01:33):
So let's talk about you. Sofrom your LinkedIn profile, it's very I'm
very curious to see you have theLiam Color natural health researcher and wellness up.
Can you please introduce yourself using thesewords? Yes, so we have.
I put down three different kinds ofopportunity I call three kinds of jobs
titles, so to speak. I'mworking on the first one's called drink color

(01:55):
and why it's like like an openingthing to get into interaction with me and
what I really like to do andwhat is really needed to in one way
another inside or in change, comeon better or more improve version of yourself.
Is to be able to dare todream. And many people have dreams
about the past, like which you'relingering on with like lost love or something.

(02:15):
Some people are looking very far intothe future but don't know how to
start, and I just only graspingabout how my life would have been or
could have been a bit yet differentways to actually go onto your life and
just have a vision very straight,have a straight back and just go to
life with chasing your dreams or notdoing so. It's also a very challenging
thing, of course, if youdon't dream anymore. Let's say you have

(02:37):
dreaming during the night, but havinglike dreams to pursue, and if you
don't have those, it's also quitetough or hard to just be confronted with
them as well. So if youdare to actually call out the dream and
just process it and know what youcan do and what I like, some
traps if you try to open peopleup that's sort of thing which I like
to become more interested, to becomemore active in. So right now it's

(02:59):
just a passion for me, andI call it out like being a dream
caller, but it can be likea vision ghost or a vision quest or
like a life quach in one wayor another, but just calling out the
dreams and see from there on whatI can mean for you any other way
around. That's maybe the first one. The second one was like natural health
researcher and one what another You canalso call it the natural path somebody who
actually prescribes natural solutions for different kindsof things, for health and performance related

(03:24):
And right now I'm actually like toresearch from a biohacking point of view,
but also from more from an alchemist'spoint of view or help me point of
view, like a more are youuvetic? One? From different angles. I
like to see, okay, whatcan health do with you? And how
can you actually change your behavior?How can different things work for you?
I have a background of pharmaceutical sciencesthat a university degree, a bachelor's one

(03:46):
in an Netherlans in Amsterdam at afew university and I finished it, but
I finished it with asking myself like, hey, I don't like medicines that
much. They are like more aboutsymptom treatment instead of like going to the
cause to like the full picture ofthe human person, to see where is
that thisa is located and how canyou actually affect or treated it one way
another? And so I start outwith researching medicine how to make them,

(04:09):
but then eventually is like, hey, this is simptom treatment and not looking
to the full picture, So howcan we do that instead? And how
can I actually approach it? Fromthere onwards, I looked into digital solutions
and from I was looking at naturalhealth researcher, but also from a digital
point of view, like how theone thing which influences us most of the
day most behavior is our phone.Like two to three hours a day we're

(04:30):
on this little screen which which isscrolling through or going to social media channels
or whatsoever, consuming consuming information?So how can you use your phone to
actually change all your health behavior andalso one way or sustainability behavior. But
the focus may focus on health andwas my focus to speak and from this

(04:53):
focus the digital focus, what elsecan happen or changes behavior? The most
are platforms. Platforms would ask inamount of services and products more together and
structuize information in a new way,which makes it possible to make it like
a more efficient, the more cheaperor more informed decisions on where to get
your products or services. So howit does this relate to health? So

(05:14):
what kind of platforms are there,what kind of applications, how do they
in synthifize health. That's what I'vebeen researching myself and looking into what kind
of services or platforms or idea businessmodels are out there. In addition towards
how can behavior be tweaked or tunedor one with another influenced to become a
more better version of yourself. Sothat's a bit about the natural health research.

(05:38):
And right now I'm also working inparticular with essential oils and as also
of course not of course, butthat's also an profession input as well,
so I can make a living outof it. But at the same time,
essential oils have been there around likeages, but only recently we have
been able to get these kind ofhigh pure grade oils, which makes it
even also possible to do like acquitmore accuid measures with them to see what

(06:00):
the influences the certain behaviors and certainhealth related dimensions so to speak. So
I'm looking into these and just testingaround in my community to see, like,
hey, do you have any doyou have like any sleep related,
sleep related uncomfortable things or like thingsyou would like to see them maybe a

(06:21):
bit improved? Okay, what couldmaybe potentially be working from a natural point
of view, natural solutions point ofview, and just sampling with them and
collecting data and see how this mightwork on it and also just of course
promoting and analyzing this data and puttingit putting publications out there. I do
have to say in this case,it's not like a medical research in it

(06:42):
all, I don't have like theaccreditation as well either to do so,
but more from a performance a wellnesspoint of view, to see what things
natural solutions can do for you.So I think that's like the second out
of three job tiles are put outthere, and like the last one is
the wellness advocate. And a wellnessadvocate is like what's an advocate somebody who's
promoting our certain kind of lifestyle orcertain kind of information or a product or

(07:05):
a service, and this and inthis case about wellness or more like how
ms like different dimensions or your life, how they're being influenced, how can
maybe optimize them a bit more performancewise, and also looking through this aspect,
particularly with essential oils, but alsowith different biohack insights and tools which
have been worked with in the past, and see how these together can actually,

(07:28):
in one way or another, Yeah, improve your wellness or overall performance.
So that's what I've been doing.Perfect, very very very clear.
So that's just that one note.So about the dream calling, you are
not talking of dealing with lucid dreaming, right, No, no, not
at all. And I know thatno meditation, no guided meditations either,
which which which I'm looking into aswell. But it's requests also training and

(07:53):
some practice. But it's something fromthe long term to incorporate in a concert
that will be holding with you ifyou'd go throughout dream color. Yeah yeah,
yeah perfect. Thanks So and thenlink to to what you already mentioned,
because we will attle bit of thisexperiment you are doing. But the
two topics you mentioned already are sleep, biohacking, and essential oils. Then

(08:16):
why you think that bioaking can sleepor are important? So what do you
want to do to reach with thebioaking in particular? So I would like
to start with sleep first, yspecifically sleep, because they're like different aspects
of life and of your wellness andperformance. I think sleeping particularly is one

(08:37):
of the fields or the sub fieldswhich are easy to measure. And also
if you doing a certain kind ofexperiment, let's say, use like an
essential oil, like a different kindof product or a different kind of habit
or experiment to measure how you sleepbetter or not than from from a feeling
point of view. From a gutfeeling point of view, you notice,
of course, I did you wakeup throughout the night, but also home

(08:58):
or rested or not you are thenext morning. So it's like quite an
easy thing to track yourself from anemotional point of view or like from a
god feeding point of view. Butadditionally that's what biohacking comes in. Biohacking
is about, of course, I'mmeasuring is knowing and how to deal specifically
like a personalized help plan based onyour personalized data. And for sleep in
particular, there are quite some sleepmeters out there which can say a lot

(09:22):
about how you sleep, like yourdeep sleep, your sleep, different things
about sircadian and rhythm, how theyinfluenced your heart rate, heart rate variability,
the different parameters which you can trackwith different kind of sleep meters,
and going better and better well eventhough they are like still different ones out
there which you're still like is itstill working or not? But anyhow,
in general, if you look atsleep and biohacking, it's a very interesting

(09:46):
cross section, very interesting field inparticular because it's something you can measure easily,
but it's also measurable easy without themeters as well. So I'm really
looking into also how does digital technologyin this aspect influence our behavior. And
that's why I'm particularly interested in sleepand the bio hiking in the specific cross
sections that speak. That's that's Iinterviewed Brian Johnson, the multi millionaire who

(10:11):
is trying to go one billion dollarproject or plan annual plan. Yeah,
it's two million dollar here, Ithink, and I think you mentioned that
sleep is the first Sleep is thefirst thing because it's cascading down the domino
effect. But to be fair,if you go to a food experts to

(10:33):
speak, or the dietician, thisperson will say like ninety percent of immune
system comes from your gut, Soyou're like different things of course, but
indeed sleep is one of the mainpilots of having a healthy, healthy lifestyle,
so to speak. Yeah, andbecause I mean if my personal experience,
that's why I'm so keen to lookabout sleep or recovery is if you

(10:56):
don't have a good, nice sleep, and then we can we can mention
maybe soon what does it mean goodnight sleep? And we can term of
time or quality and quality? Whatdoesn't mean quality? And this is I
think this is good for the audienceas well. Is then the following day

(11:18):
is really impacted nutrition as well,because there are studies linking poor night sleep
with insulin levels with cravings and nutrition. And then of course mental clarity.
Talking about nootropics and bioarching to increasefocus, you can use them, okay,

(11:39):
but if you don't take care ofsleep, then are completely useless.
And so that's why it's one ofthe key factors for me as well.
And so and if you want tojust go back to the essential OIDs you
mentioned, can you sclarify what whatare these essential oils? Define? And

(12:01):
purity? How how they are derivedfrom the plants, and take a couple
of examples. So if you lookat essential oils, well, we have
motor oil, and we have sunfireoil. Those are not essential oil,
so to speak. Essential oils arethose which we deem essentially in one way
another like the products which we haveto use or are one way supporting our

(12:24):
well being or performance. And solet's say take they're like different kinds of
sources for the for the essential oils. If like the citrus fruits you have,
like the flowers you have, likethe trees, if like I'm not
sure how you call it, it'slike the gluey thing like which is like
on the which you can find onthe trees, yeh, like resin based

(12:46):
oils as well. And you havelike mental based oils like the mental crystals
so to speak. Okay, andI think they're even more credible research.
These are like the main ones,and they're all extracted in a different way,
but it's like a purification process.Let's take for instance, lemon oil.
Lemons are made of lemon oils madeof lemons, and takes seventy five

(13:07):
of seventy five lemons just to getfifteen milli liters of oil. And what's
maybe an interesting thing as well,like small little fact about oil of the
lemon oil and form the particular brandI'm working with. They provide essential oils
on a CERTI fight. It's puretested grade, so to speak, and
it's like the gold and standard ofhow pure oils are. So they always

(13:31):
have a specific like have a purequality like a baseline of how the good
the product should be and how pureit is. And in their aspect of
in dair regards like it takes seventyfive melons of lemons to get just fifteen
milliters of lime juice of lemon juice. So like just imagine like you have
like this this very small bottle andyou just have like this amount of limes

(13:52):
lemons. And in this regard,it's not made of the juice itself,
Like the juice itself is not juice. It's like the outer lay which is
being used just to press. Ibelieve it's called press, but I'm not
sure how the oil extraction process goes, which eventually leads to having like fifteen
millions of the oil left over.Okay. So so and when we talk

(14:13):
about the pharmaceutical grade is the sameor because there are some oils that I
used to also use oil, notdirectly, but with like rosemary, which
has got good good influence of brainbrain. So I think if you look
at pharmaceutically great, that's like aterm which can only be used but one

(14:35):
way, not by pharmaceutical companies soto speak, which can be applied for
like a specific therapeutic purpose. Sothey can mostly called therapeutic grade, and
one are no off instance from thecompany. I'm we're parting up with the
ols they produce. They first calledtherapeutic grade. But one issue with essential
oils is they are not pure compounds. I mean you can make like you

(14:58):
can make like a essential oils alsomade from you call it like aromatic compounds.
It's like the main anti active,the main aromatic activity. Make sure
you have like a different smell ora different color from the oil. And
if you have like one pure eucalyptuseucalyptic oil, frames its like one specific
oil with one specific I call itone specific molecule in there it's completely pure.

(15:24):
Then in one way or another ithas filtered out all the other trays,
minerals and things which comes out fromthe eucalyptus plant. So if you
say a farm cucule grade eucalyptus oil, then you just have like this aromatic
compound which is completely purified, andit's like the oil thing you have left
over, but also different processes werehappening to it. But if you really
look at the oils which are likenaturally derived, you have like the full

(15:48):
scale of all the different trays,elements and different sub elements which comes from
the extraction process with the oil.So it's not just like the biggest it's
not like the let's say you havelike sorry, everybody knows Coca Cota.
You just have like normal Coca Colabottles, or that's like one thing there
is there is if you look atthe whole Coca Cola thing, there are

(16:11):
like maybe twenty different forty fifty productsin total which are underneath this company.
I'm not trying it to make itpromote any or make any commercial thing to
about it, but old thing islike there's like maybe a hundred different compounds
still there and not just like there'sone product, like there's one pure thing.
And that's maybe also the difference likeif you get it naturally or you
have like a pharmaceutical grade which justspecifically the one main thing, And that's

(16:34):
maybe also the difference between having naturalproducts, which shows you like all the
different things which you can find inplants but are not particularly being measured or
isolated out of this sample. Andmaybe what's a fun thing to know though,
is right now these essential oils,there are such a quality, consistent
pure quality, with the whole spectrumin there, so to speak. That

(16:56):
only like recently they are being ableto do some Farma COCONet studies about it,
which means like you can actually seeon a consistent base if you put
like one drop in there, likethere's a specific unit for drops, like
drum. I believe it's called drum. If you put like consistent base in
there and apply to one hundred differentpeople, then everybody has like the same

(17:18):
result, or you can actually justmake like a baseline. Everybody got the
same amount. And previously it wasnot possible because the pure grade so to
speak, was not there. Andso oils derived from products itself don't be
described as theapeutic or like pharmaceutical,and they're just called being pure grade.
Just like a technicality about how youlabel the different oils, okay, and

(17:41):
so about essential oils and bioarching,so self quantification and experiments. So can
you give me, give us acouple of examples of essential oils that you
tried and the outcomes of your personalexperience. Yes, So one thing which
I tried with a couple of peoplearound me is the use of Tea tree

(18:02):
oil and Ta Tree oil has likean anti bacterial working, so it speaks
to it. And what really hellswith is with healing of little wounds,
a little scratches and so on.So some people in my surroundings have been
using them and they just like ifthey have like an itchy thing or something,
or like an open mound, theyjust apply a little bit of Ta

(18:22):
Tree on it, and in oneway another it seems to support in having
like a healthy skin afterwards or justin the healing process. I cannot make
that claim particularly so to speak,so hold me onto that one. So
you have to do a compliance courseon this thing. But that's like one
thing which I've been seeing. Anotherthing which I've been looking into is in
particularly when we talked about is before, is a sleep experiment. So right

(18:45):
now I'm looking into how different kindof oils and then particularly looking at lavender
and vatty fair about those two oilshow they can actually affect your sleep.
So what I've been doing. I'vebeen calling around on my own network so
to speak, and see like,hey, who is interested or has like
in one way another not optimal sleep. I would like to try something in

(19:07):
addition to maybe what you're already doingor not, and just see what happens.
So these oils are completely safe,and of course if you if you
drink them down, that's not that'snot meant to be, so to speak.
Like different oils have different kinds ofapplication ways. Some you can intake,
some you do them in the capsule. So much just for aroma therapy,
so for smelling different ones just toapply topically like the teachere, and

(19:27):
and for this for this sleep experimentas well, what I've been doing,
we have been sending a different differentquestionnaires out about determine them, determine the
sleep history, the currency situation,and also the after experiment situation of how
you've been sleeping, how you feel, and then trying to trying to measure

(19:48):
different kinds of parameters. And inparticular also some people are working with sleep
sleep meters in this experiments to seewhat's a different data telling as well.
Yees, so yeah, link tothat. Yeah, what the param the
way we talk about quality of sleep, because okay, we understand that there
are some guidelines, there are somethere is a fork between six, eight

(20:11):
and nine hours. Then we knowthat with the age then this this thing
is changing over time. So thenthe older you are, the less hours
of sleep usually typically yeh seeen interms of hours of sleep, in terms
of quality of sleep. When wetalk about some parameters to be tracked with

(20:34):
the smart words or have tracking,so what what do you think about those
the most one or two most relevant? And we can talk even dive deep
into the r M sleep or aswell. So there's the study which I'm
doing is for like two different reasons. And one doesn't need to and particularly

(20:55):
see what's working, what's not,what kind of issues do people have?
What do track there pormans with suchspeak or the sleep performance. But second
of all is also to see howpeople are perceiving which meters are of importance
and some people are using sleep metersand someone not. And also in what
extent you're actually empowering yourself on thesleep topic. Because one thing, of

(21:17):
course, if you want to improveyour sleep or improve one aspect of your
life, one thing to do aboutit is to learn about it. What
can you what kind of information isout there, what are the options explore
and and so that's one thing whichyou can do. And we are also
measuring because we have like one groupof people which are using these smart meters,
are more I'm more into bio hikingsoart to speak. And there are
those which are just sleeping bed andI've never heard about what a sleep meter

(21:40):
is or what is your rem sleepor your deep sleep or your rate for
the ability. They don't even knowand still they're trying something new because it
just pop up in their social media, I think in this case, but
then still looking, okay, whatkind of sleep meters are they using and
what what's what's So that's like adistinction between the two. So let's first
start with those without the sleep meter. One thing to measure with is,

(22:00):
okay, how much things do youknow about sleep, about the circadian rhythm,
about not sleeping and not having anyblue cloud exposure or any television or
screen time before going to bed,not having caffeine made in the night or
any alcohol so to speak, andare also different takes and that's such as
well. And also what kind ofregularity are you sleeping or not, because
you could say that maybe there's alsolike this statement of if you just within

(22:25):
three days you can reset your wholesleep pattern. Whither are people which have
been sleeping for terrible flight ten twentyyears and if they knew how well it
doesn't work with three days of course, but it's easy just to get a
different sleep rhythm, and like evenlet's say three four days to reset it.
And so also how regularly you goto sleep and on the same time
and every if it's every day orthe week or not. It's also a

(22:45):
factor which to measure. And thesethings in relation to what your overall stress
levels are as well, is athing of interest because it could be your
resinion. Just have like a verybusy life like children, and you have
like two jobs, and you alsohave your sports society, and you have
fuid friends coming over, and youhave your mother to take care of.
Yet then you don't have time tounwily just come down. You don't have

(23:10):
time to have some calming or restingpractices during the day and before I'm going
to bed. So those are thingsyou like to identify. And these are
like more kind of qualitative data insteadof quantitative data, so it's harder to
track, but it's also things whichare of interested to see and with this
population of people which are trying aspecific new compound or solution out, then

(23:33):
there's a second aspect which is likemore about the quantitative data are those which
the smart meters, like how youcan attract your sleep. There are different
parameters involved which you can use,and I'm not an expert myself completely on
all of them because you can justkeep on learning as well, can get
a degree on neuroscience and how sleepworks. But the biggest ones which you
could think of is like your ratioof your rem sleep and your deep sleep.

(23:56):
And your rem sleep is like thefirst part of your sleepy where you
go really down and you actually inone one order of having a lot of
visualize and sorry, you're processing alot of information which happened the day before
during the day, and then youhave the deep sleep, which is like
when also if you measure your heartrate and your heart rate for your ability
at those things, you can identifyhow long your deep sleep is. And

(24:19):
also different sleep stages like there arethree or four, don't looking out like
which ones they are, and sothat's one thing to look into. But
then those sleep meters they actually theylook on different elements in your blood.
For instance, if you have likean or ring or a whoop, you
also have like the amount of movementyou make throughout the night, which is
an indicator on which sleep phase youare. You can also look at the

(24:42):
amount of about the heart rate islike is it low, is it high?
And during different kind of aspects ofyour sleep. And the whole thing
about the sleep meters is to actuallyhave like identify your sleep pattern over the
night and having different kinds of sleeppatterns like having a prolonged REM phase or
like a like a shorter deep facedeep sleep face. Those indicate on certain

(25:03):
kinds of Yeah, like let's notcalled degenerative, but so optimal sleep habits
or patterns which can and one wayanother relate to a specific kind of stressor
of specific kind of response to whathappened for her today. So if you
if you measure those things, youcan identify like, hey, what's going
on with this specific thing and saylike hey, your REM sleep is too

(25:26):
short, And then those people tendto look, Okay, how can improve
my REM sleep? What are thethings which I can find on the internet,
and it's an interesting thing which I'malso looking into for this sleep study.
Is so those which don't use anybio biohacking or I'm not actually promoting
anything aside of going to the healthyour general petitioner or your family physician,

(25:48):
your doctor, and they go thereand if they're all their whole problem,
so to speak, in the handsof their doctor, and they just prescribed
in the medicine and say like youcan use this dias and boom or the
massive bomb or whatsoever kind of medicinefor sleep, and that's all they do
with it, and they try touse it, and more more often than
not, it's not really serving themin the long term and you're hooked on

(26:10):
sleeping bills for instance. I'm notsaying it's not working. It's serving a
lot of people with insomnia and differentkinds of sleep redated issues. But it's
those people which put the authority oftheir sleep and the health in the hands
of the medical professional. And thenyou have those on the opposite, the
biohackers are to speak, and theytry to become their own doctor, their
own medical professional. Of course,there's some criticism as well, like hey,

(26:33):
you should not be your own doctorbecause it can be dangerous. YadA,
YadA, YadA, And of coursethere is some risk involved. You
need to know what you're doing.But there are many before you which already
have pioneered the field. So likethe big red flecks are out there and
thank you for their sacrifice, youmight want to build them for those people.
Right now, there's like more clarityon what's working what's not, of
course sure, because yeah, you'reperfectly right. There is a disclaimer on

(26:59):
the age of the podcast they publishfor obvious reasons. And there are things
that we can do with I thinkwithout any or potential impact. But when
we start taking drugs, or wedidn't take supplements, so we can take
like melatonine as well, even couldbe a problem impacting or interacting with any

(27:23):
other thing. And then we knowfor reastance for the alcohol is an impact
on rim sleep, duration of lackof minerals and the HRV HRV you mentioned,
and there is a good indicator thatin the recent couple of years,
I think that everyone is talking aboutHRV, and in particular because it's coming

(27:44):
from the cleat work world where athletesare actually basing the training intensity on the
HIV values and so basically just roughly, if you HRV is slow and should
just take more rest because you areon the stress physiologically, So do not

(28:08):
give your body a hard workout orhigh intensity, you go slower today.
It was curious because when I askedthis to Brian Johnson as well, who
is basically doing the same thing everyday, he basically said, I recover
every day. Again, there issome lot of subjectivity, and in term

(28:30):
of subjectivity, the risk, let'ssay, with the experiment to subjectivity is
obviously the placible effect because while youhave some data that can be valuable,
of course you have some data,some trend and baseline when you talk about
subjectivity, is the impact of placibocould be more. Yeah, let's need

(28:55):
also something which you also have totake into a cant if you do an
experiment, like how can you makesure that pasibo effect can be ruled out
or not? And it also makesthe experiments way more replicable as well and
also more scientifically resilience, so tospeak. And of course if you do
it like in the case of oils, it's a bit harder perhaps because if

(29:18):
you have an oil which is veryvery has like a specific smell, Like
everybody knows the smell of lavender,right, So what you can do is
like you can maybe have an alternativelike a lavender without which is not purely
great, like which just has somesome filler different oil so to speak,
and like the smell is like reallylight, or like have like a transparent
oil, like just coconut oil andall, and just like letting them know,

(29:40):
like, hey, this is sopure it doesn't have the smell.
I don't know, like have likelike have hocolos a control group which has
like like a sugar pill, soto speak. Basically, And therefore,
in that way you can actually alsoanalyze, hey, this has as an
influence on that. But to takelike one step more back, if you
want to also make sure there's likesign statistically significance. Right now, the

(30:02):
skill of the research I'm doing islike fifty sixty participants. So if you
want to have a significant statistically significantas well, you need like not like
four or two groups of thirty orfifteen people. You just have to have
like a different kind of couple ofhundred users. Then you can also statistically
check for the Placibo effect as well. So that's not what I'm doing,

(30:22):
particularly now in the small skill experimentI'm doing. It's just to see like,
hey, could it have an effectthat people are interested in how the
product works. Then okay, itcould be a placibal effect, of course
that's one, but most of thetime people have already tried different things,
and specifically also these biohackers, theyalso have the data to back it up.
Then of course there's also the questionhow can the placibo effect itself alter

(30:45):
the bio biomedical data. It's alsoan interesting thing to see. I'm actually
looking forward to see if who havelike bigger experience like this to also check
for this. But so far asI know, no real research has been
on actually how the smart meters areinfluencing the perception of how the data is
compared to those which are not usingthe data or using a pacibo, So

(31:07):
that I'm really looking forward to becausethere's still something which rechart to catch up
to. Now. Yeah, Imean telling personal experience data. Yes,
I used to be more self quantifiedperson yourself, but as soon as you
start looking at your trends then Ithink aloteam Ferries as well started doing so.

(31:33):
But Tim ferries. But after yearsyou start knowing and you don't need
anymore a very detailed specific monitor orany You start feeling you know what is
wrong, what is doing well.Maybe perhaps every x number of years you

(31:55):
should do another sort of control testcheck. So that's why I personally,
even if my hr be in themorning, says oh maybe you should rest
a little bit if I feel Ireally don't care. But there are people
that are really sticking to it.So if they should visas slow, okay,

(32:17):
I do something else. Yeah,this is different, different approach again,
and you mentioned yeah, of coursewe are not talking about to double
blind placebo control testing grade level.But the value of this experiment is huge
because pioneers are always been people likethis. Bioaching self quantified, quantified movement

(32:43):
is part of this because again manymany biohackers say, Okay, the time
that this thing is will be tested, allowed to be in the market,
maybe I will be not here.So yeah, there there are cross and
cons of course with the knowledge anduse. And I think that's also like

(33:07):
maybe one of the drawbacks which contemporaryscience points a finger about to biohackers.
It's like the scientific richestness of theexperiments they perform like it's not double blind,
it's not checked for placebo, solike it's pseudoscience or it cannot have
any additional data can be described fromthis. It's so that's like, of

(33:30):
course, like a critical remark,but at the same time it should not
demotivate people to do so. Imean, of course there are one way
another like small kinds of just likewhat the risk involved if you tried to
experiment or self quantify yourself one wayanother, But it's better than using no
data for instance, and as wellit lays the road for future research and

(33:51):
just laying the ground towards to makesure we have like double proof placebo checked
health interventions or wellness performance interventions whichare more natural based on mobiohicker based on
speak. So yeah, yeah,going back to your study lip studied and
you know when this will be published. I think we can manage not to

(34:14):
influence. You are going to testtwo oils at the same time, right
together, Yeah, for seven thatnight. So the duration the seven nights
I'm curious about because I know thatokay, you can use essentials with that
diffusire with, but there is thecan you please talk about this too,

(34:39):
and I incourase about the application forthe vetivor because I'm really in also the
your ved practice. And I usedto have a lot of colleagues and friends
from India, and when they usedto tell me, for instance, one
when I remember it got some someso cold cold, so with sneezing,

(35:04):
and and one one day it camewith a powder and the powder is he
put powder here on top of itshead mm hmm for one night, and
he said that the following the morningis wet all night. And then this
is what they said, and thefollowing one was okay. And from coming

(35:27):
from a Western medicine world approach,this sounds really strange to me because what
you're putting powder inside. He saidto tell me that this is one of
the ingress ingress input for for thebody according to your bed and the Betty
bear is applied at the bottom ofthe feet, right yeah, So so

(35:53):
ve' you're going to be used indifferent ways. And one of them which
we prescribe for the metal for thestudy is a underneath the big toe.
And why the big toe, becausethere's what the sleep meridian is connected the
nerves which are connected to your toyour brain. For sleep they go through
the ends of them are true andyour big toe or sneak. So what

(36:14):
we prescribe or not prescribe, whatwe set out as instructions, so to
speak, is to apply the fattyfair and like in a small roller bottle,
underneath the big toes and also underneaththe sole of the feed, where
like the like the thickness of thefeed is like very thin, so to
speak, so it's easier absorbed.And so that's like one place to do,
but a different place to apply.And it's more like which we have

(36:37):
heard from folklore of storytelling, fromheard from different people around me which have
been using fatty fair as well.It's not folk lare but like it tell
tale people saying how c cues issupplied in a navel. But there's also
a small drawback about it because fattyfair itself it's it's like it's like a
grass and the oil is made ofthe roots, and the roots are particularly

(36:57):
long. So these roots, thisfatty fair is mostly used the dunes for
also getting stabilizing the scents and solong. But these roots are very long
and from an energetic point of view, are really drownding in that way from
from a more spiritual point of view, but fatty fair in itself is used
for to treat hold on fat feelcan be applied to help in a healthy

(37:20):
sleep, to keep your sleep healthy, and particularly people with insomnia have seen
the usage of application of fatty fairto in one way or another have elevated
or in one way another support theirsleep or healthy sleep. So and I
have to really watch out with theclaims. I'm not really first and there

(37:42):
disclaimers to speak so to to here, but the I call it. So
what I did is day one storywhich I can talk about stories of course,
but experiences. One experience a friendof mine which is used to be
a general practitioner, describe put likeone drop of pure vetivola or pure graded

(38:04):
veatifo oil and the navel of theof the clients that speak, and this
client has been on sleep medication forlike ten fifteen years on the and different
kinds of diaz pum, those kindof st bills. And this person announced
or experience or set shared with thegeneral practition like this person hadn't been sleeping

(38:28):
as this good for like in solong, and particularly this person was having
insomnia. And yeah, from oneday, on the other this person quit
it with taking the sleep medication.But there's also not something I can recommend,
so to speak, always do thisin an important sture doctor, and
also like quick thing drastically just inone go which your medication also has some

(38:49):
side effects or drawbacks. Make sureif you want to see in one way
another how you want to get thebe free of your medicine again, see
how you can actually lower those overtime. That's what I would recommend.
But I'm not a medical advisor oneway or another, but that's what it
would be like the more general approachto dealing with this. But anyhow,
that's like one account of fatty areso right now we're looking into sampling just

(39:15):
these products out and there actually verywell compatible with any kind of sleep medication
you would have. I mean,there are some oils which have have like
cross effects with certain kind of medications. So always see one way anot of
how you can make sure you arewell informed whether you can use them or
not. There's enough information reference onthe intet for that as well, and

(39:37):
also the person's providing them also haslike some people with medical expertise available to
actually see whether or not this isn'trecommended thing to do. But then in
this case, these oils are ableto be used in any way. Your
body's already functioning, so to speak. And so what we did or what

(39:58):
I did, is to see inmy environment, like, hey people,
is there anybody who's like a suboptimalsleep or has like an issue with sleeping
in a healthy, proper way,and whould like it to be interesting to
you to trying out a natural products. And so I've been doing it.
I got like around forty to fiftyresponses. We're simpling right now during the
experience. I think like the firstpeople have maybe received their samples today or

(40:21):
yesterday and are starting their one weeksleep experiment and see how it goes.
And then we record the difference andhow they feel before the experiment and afterwards
see what what's the effect? Well, that's great, and of course keeping
all the parameter, trying to keepall the other parameter constant lest the impact.
That's really so we don't know whenthis this podcast will will go out,

(40:45):
probably after do you mentioned that peopleare already seeing so seven days,
so yeah, I think we cangive after. So are you planning to
do the same things in the futureand how the listeners can reach out.
Yeah, so I'm going to dothe same thing in the future. One
next experiment is already planned for whatyou want to do with t tree and

(41:07):
see like how does it do youhave like any skin rashes or any skin
irritation or anything like an unsettled skinor like some wounds on there which you
like, in order to see ifthere's like a natural solution to help support
and having a healthy skin, Andso that's what I'm going to do.
That's the next thing. So thisone is about sleep, but if you

(41:28):
look about your skin, it's wayharder to have like some biomedical data about
it. So it's like very hardto measure like how's your skin doing or
not. So that's maybe an issuefrom a biohagging point of view, but
in any way, it's about tryinga new experiment and seeing like, hey,
how does this work, Just measuringfrom a more qualitative data point of
view on how this affects you ornot, and then of course you can

(41:49):
be completely healthy and then seeing thedifference there's not there's maybe a very small
significant difference to you when you havelike a wound on your finger and you're
applying t tree on it, like, oh, it's healing in two days
instead of three days. Well,you're not sure to how to track that
properly as well. So that's onething I'm doing, and I'll be reaching
out through LinkedIn mostly as well inmy network and just through my social context

(42:10):
and through what's happened so on.If you can find me on LinkedIn,
my name is Jimmy Ducker. Youcan find me over there. Yeah,
so that's where my future research willbe out. Furthermore, the sleep experiment
itself making this a bit bigger becauseit's going to be part of my graduation
phasis for my studies and Master ofDigital Business Innovation at the FEW in Amsterdam.

(42:32):
So when this is finished, youcan also oupoth size it on LinkedIn
as well and can be fined inthe university library as well. There perfect,
I think that we can we canfollow up after this, but for
the time being, we can closethe recording now. So thanks Jimmy for
being here and I will post allthe links into the show notes so for

(42:58):
for the future and let's stay intouch. Sweet thank you man here lovely
channel you have here, and lookingforward to hear more from you Hey,
thank you. Did you like thisepisode? If so, simply subscribe comes
up and click on the notification belt, not to lose any opportunity in the
future, and remember sharing and scarryinghim for the coffee even better the next

(43:25):
time. See you soon.