[ENG] ☕ Il Caffe' Dell' Alchimista- Coffee with the Alchemist ⚗️ Simon Shawcross

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to another coffe in English withme the Alchemist. To day, we
have a special guest who brings awealth of knowledge and expertise to the table.
He is a renowned figure in thefitness industry and co founder of hit
Tuney. To day, we arehonored to have the one and only Simon's

(00:25):
Shawcross with us. Simon is notonly a passionate advocate for evidence based training,
but Simon is also a speaker,educator and co founder of Hittuny,
a leading platform for high intensity trainingeducation. In this episode, we will
explore simon insights into efficient and effectivetraining methods, it thoughts on the ever

(00:53):
evolving landscape of fitness, and perhapsgain some valuable tips for achieving our home
health and fitness goals. This episodeis sponsored by think fit and I personally
developed to improve productivity and reduce sanitarybehaviors, improving wellness and wellbeing overall without

(01:15):
impacting on the day by day activities, even improving your productivity. For hit
Tuny, use the link on thedescription and use the called think fit ten
for a ten percent discount on hittuning without further ado, Let's dive into
the conversation with Simon Chawcross on thecoffee with the Alchemist. Well, thank

(01:48):
you, thank you someone for beinghere with me. Yeah, and let's
start introduced for you, introducing yourselfa little bit to the audience, and
in particular why and how you didget into this profession and personal training and
the high intensity. Sure, growingup, I was always a physical person,

(02:15):
so I was always doing sports andexercise, not formal exercise, but
involved in sports from sort of rugbyto football, even things like skateboarding and
mountain biking, so a wide arrayof things. But when I got to
around the age of sixteen, thatall kind of stopped for me. And

(02:39):
I you know, going back allthose years I was studying, but I
also got into partying a little bit, and I just lost that side of
myself for a while. So trackingforward a few years, when I was
twenty one, I would say atuniversity, I was actually studying business and

(03:01):
marketing at university, and that veinhad continued. I had. I had
neglected to look after myself physically.So from time to time I'd kept having
these flashes about needing to get backinto shape, wanting to be more physical
again. And at that point Ihad sort of lost touch with my physicality

(03:25):
and didn't really know where to start. So I remember browsing in a bookstore
and finding something that was like train, like the Parachute Regiment, trains,
and of course it were what thatwas, which shear was. This would
have been nineteen ninety seven. Yeah, we got you know, the period

(03:51):
of crazy new new trends, newdiets, new new trends are coming.
So nineteen year okay, yeah,yeah, it would have been ninety seven.
And anyway, so I got thisbook which was trained like the Parachute

(04:11):
Regiment. I followed it to atea, did that for twelve weeks,
and then decided to join a gymand start doing strength training at a gym.
There were other things I was doingat the time. I trained for
a marathon, I ran a halfmarathon, I did some indoor rock climbing.
I was just sort of testing thewaters again about being physical anyway,

(04:34):
but something made me gravitate to strengthtraining. I think there was a sense
quite deep down that this was thecore of exercise, that this was sort
of there was something within strength trainingthat was the essence of exercise. I
started at a gym and did whatevertold me at gym, which happened to

(04:56):
be five days a week. Ithink, uh, five ways split.
So I don't recall off the topof my head exactly what it was,
but it was probably chess one day, shoulders another, back another day,
lower body another day, and anaccessory day as well. Five days a
week, probably in the gym forabout forty five minutes to an hour,

(05:21):
and probably each exercise would have beenperformed for five cents. It was a
long workout, it was a toughworkout, and I think we trained.
We trained hard, for sure.I trained with the owner of the gym
for several months as his training partner, but I was feeling better physic muscularly,

(05:45):
physically, but I was also endedup after say six months of this,
of feeling a general sense of fatiguetoo much of a time for my
liking. So I start to aroundand look for something that made more logical

(06:06):
sense to me that that hadn't reallyseen a science behind st training to this
point. And then I happened acrosssome writing by a bodybuilder who had been
famous during the late seventies and earlyeighties, and it had a resurgence in

(06:27):
the nineties through his writing which wasa guy called Mike Mentzer, who you
may be familiar with, who wasreally sort of one of the genesises of
high intensity training. Yeah, Iread it and it was so revolutionary and
contradictory to the training style that Ihad been doing. Now, we fought

(06:53):
fast forward a bit of time here, and I was in my first full
time job now, and I wasfinding that five days a week gym training
unsustainable with a job where I wasworking twelve hours a day, wow,
six days a week. And somethinghad to give. Something had to get,
and I really didn't want it tobe my physical training, but it

(07:15):
couldn't continue in the manner that ithad to go. I have nothing to
lose by giving Mike Mentz's writing,his advice, his thoughts on exercise a
shot at that point, because itwas unsustainable for me to continue training in
the manner that I was training.And I think another point to consider is

(07:44):
I was a gym that was kindof like a fairly hardcore bodybuilding gym,
and you know, quite a fewpeople were using substances but would enable them
to train more frequently and be ableto do that. That was not a
road that I wanted to go downor ever went down, so I didn't
have the luxury of having an enhancedrecoiability genetically either. So so yeah,

(08:11):
so I gave this. I gavethis a shot, and I was fascinated
by it. And one of thekey things that I saw immediately was that
I was fresh. I felt inmy day life, I had energy again
to get on with everything else.I wasn't feeling continually fatigued from the gym,

(08:33):
so it was adding to my rathertaking away. And I'm keeping fastidious
notes as well, and I couldsee my strength continuing to increase, probably
at a faster pace than it haddone on the previous workouts. And not

(08:54):
only that, but also my formand my technique. He was getting better
because I was being encouraged through Mike'swriting. After I would say, six
months of training following Mike Mentz's advice, but I discovered from his writing in

(09:16):
magazines and writing books. I actuallygot in touch with Mike and we spoke
over the phone several times as well, where he continued to sort of guide
me, I would say, andencourage encourage me not only in exercise,
but in thinking about the mind andphilosophy as well. Yeah, it's very

(09:41):
interesting so you came from the traditionalor you pick up that book of training
like a passion, So do backthat book, you follow that the routine
that was assuming was volume oriented,right, it was. And it was
a very heavy time of workload becauseyou mentioned five times a week sets and

(10:03):
what's very not sustainable and compatible withyour working life, normal life, or
any one life unless you are aprofessional bodybuilder, of course. But and
so you went accidentally, you wentinto Mike matter, right you to just
happened by I was it was assimple as flipping through a magazine reading an

(10:26):
article. And I think the theinitial my initial reaction to that article was
this is crazy. Yeah, butbut it but it it stayed, and
I probably didn't do something about itright away. It might have taken weeks
or maybe even a month or two, but that thing was in the back

(10:50):
of my mind. Then it's likealmost I possibly almost even started doing it,
hoping it would work, but alldesiring to prove that it was wrong,
because it was like so so contraryto what I've been doing for the
past two years. Has a lotof time spent, you spent then a

(11:13):
lot of energy and I can relateto that and and that is we know
that also Mike Manza maybe our audiencewe know as well. So myke Mans
started and then he changed a littlebit. Yeah cradd himself. He changed
a little bit is his approach duringthe period of years. But but the

(11:33):
concept is remain at at the baseof his work and is very important for
I will post some links about hisachievement as well. And so, so
you you moved into this new workout, the thing which which is basically high
intensity resistance training or work said,can you please a little bit introduce what

(11:58):
is this and then how did thislink to what you're doing today for living?
Yeah, So after about three orfour months, after I'd spoken to
Mike and was continuing to follow hisadvice, I suddenly came to sort of

(12:28):
a flash of clarity or insight ofwhy don't more people know about this approach
to strength training? And I reallywant to tell people about this approach to
strength training. It made exercise productive, practical, possible, and gave more

(12:58):
to my life than it took away. And I think there are many people
you know in your late teens earlytwenties who get really into exercise and almost
become addicts to the gym and alifestyle, and that's that's fine. That
might be sort of a rite ofpassage, but maybe all of us to

(13:18):
some extent need or do end upgoing through. But once you get past
that phase, if you want toget the most out of exercise that actually
supports, nourishes and gives you strength, protects you from the challenges and knocks

(13:39):
that you might have in life physically, And I'd say, to some extent
emotionally and mentally too, high intensitytraining is such a sound, solid approach
to getting realistic, long term results. Yeah, I thoughtfully agree. Yeah,
I also agree about this social aspectof gym. And Okay, you've

(14:03):
got the friends and and and alsothis feeling of but we know as well
that is the runners high for people. There are people addicted to running because
of this feeling. So it's it'sjust this pleasure and dolphins and the chemicals
rmons inside. But if you lookat again, depending on the goal you're

(14:26):
going, you look at the reallife, your real what your real work
you do every day, and thenyou need to be compatible with with what
we want to achieve. So andthis way of training is spread ups.
The really good one gives you alot of benefits compared with time. So

(14:48):
time efficiency is the key there,Yeah, there as well and so and
so you you moved into into this, this this way of training, and
you made up a business out ofit. So you rout, I'm also
a client of your hit to me, which I assume it is emerging in
intensively training with the university or sothat correct me wrong? So and what

(15:15):
exactly when you started it hit tome? And how does it work?
And what is exactly so like Ilike I was sort of finished off saying
before was I really wanted to tellpeople about this type of training. So
in nineteen ninety nine I decided tobecome a personal trainer, teaching people this

(15:41):
way of training, this approach toexercise specifically. And I did that exclusively
from this end of nineteen ninety ninethrough to twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,

(16:03):
so that that was what I wasdoing, you know, five six days
a week, I was working withpeople hands on directly. And then there
was an opportunity to with the wavethat sort of the Internet had progressed and
the way that information was being andcould be disseminated, there was an opportunity

(16:29):
to present this type of exercise ata global level, or at least currently
to a people who are capable ofunderstanding the English language, you know,
through hit Uni, through this onlineplatform with structured courses. So what we
do it it hit unis our flagshipprograms are three programs aimed at people who

(16:56):
want to be personal trainers, whoalready are personal trainers but in a sort
of more traditional approach to wex scizeand want to convert over U to being
will teach intensity training effectively. Anda Master's Trainers course which really dives deep
on all the aspects of high intensitytraining. And then that's that's sort of

(17:19):
our flagship programs. And then wehave these currently seven short courses which are
aimed at the general public, aimedat everybody trainers, the general public,
people who want to get fit themselves. And so we cover lots of different
flavors and approach to high density trainingthrough those short, shorter courses. So

(17:41):
if you want to be able totrain at home without any equipment, we've
got a course or a couple ofcourses that we're enable to do you to
do that. If you want tolook at really low volume high intensity training,
we have a course with John Littlethat focuses on that. If you
want to look at sort of bringingin high intensity training to support other athletic

(18:02):
and endeavors. I like running,for example, we have a course for
that. So we have these sortof different strands or flavors of hit represented
in the shorter courses as well.Yeah, yeah, I've been. I
have a few of them and that. Yeah. Then the good things a
short concise and that very specific tocertain so is running with strength is running.

(18:25):
Then you have a j vincent Ithink as well to build simon for
for functional exercise, all these smallpieces and then then of course the muster,
the master course and so coming backto your current routine, so I
use still working out the same wayor what has changed through the years and

(18:51):
what your personal experience. Yeah,so, so I like to ex experiment,
I like to keep things fresh,and I like to test out theories.
So over that, say, sincenineteen ninety nine till now, I've
gone up and down in terms ofexercise volume, how many exercises you're performing

(19:18):
in one workout, I've gone upand down in terms of frequency, how
often you're training the whole body ora specific muscle group, and I have
played with different variables, different approachesto applying it to applying so using body

(19:42):
weight exclusively, using no load,using free weights only, using machines only
a mixture, just to find outwhat variables work or can be made to
work really well and within what context. So I suppose supposed I'm somebody who

(20:03):
is never satisfied with the status quoor homeostatis, just looking to push things
just to see what works. AndI think the science is fantastic, and
the science has evolved over the lasttwenty five years. You know. Sometimes
you could say it's at a glacierpace, but it evolves, and it

(20:27):
presents as science does. It oftenpresents more questions or as many questions as
it answers. But one of greatthings about being embodied in human form is
that at the end of the day, you are the only person living in

(20:48):
your exact physiology. And it's greatto take advice from other people and to
pick up approaches from other people.And at a very core level, especially
with strength training, I'd say what'sabsolutely key is how to apply it safely.
That's that's absolutely you know, ifyou're doing something which is for your

(21:11):
strength and the health of your bones, your joints, your muscle tissue,
your tendons, and you're doing itfor their longevity as well. Number one
priority has to be safety and numbertwo effectiveness, or those two are like
tied together. If you're doing somethingin the gym, but you're doing purely

(21:37):
for a strengthening goal that injures yousomething's gone wrong because you're doing this to
make yourself more resilient, to makeyourself more capable over the long term.
The moment you have in it,the moment you injure your back or your
shoulder significantly, you suddenly realize howimportant that safety factor is. When you're

(22:06):
rippled with pain, acute pain fromtweaking your back or your shoulder, you'll
suddenly realize a system that often wetake for granted when it's not operating as
you expect it to, is massivelydebilitating. So I like to experiment with

(22:30):
variables, but I say, whatunderpins my training and is it the forefronts
in my mind with my training issafety first, and then I'm looking to
make it as effective slash efficient aspossible. Well, well, yeah,
I'm I'm really into it. Theaudience as well into biohacking. And longevity.

(22:52):
And this factor is also how importantthat the last time I've been asked
termal neutropics or bio hacking as well. What is more effective? But it
depends on the goal. So youmentioned say, if you are a professional
bodybuilder or professional athlete, you youmust do something for that. But in

(23:15):
the older you, I mean,I'm an now forty six, and I
really need to think about the recoveryin case of injuries because at twenty years
old, these these years of peoplethat to increase the stuff you sports,
extreame sports or but yeah, thewith age, I think it's even more

(23:37):
important this fact. And then ifyou target this, your goal is logemic.
So first okay, safety first,but then also wear and tear the
joints, the muscles. So it'sreally important because you are creating damage and
you need to recover from damage.And then so it's very interesting and then
in fact you are experimenting an Theself quantification stuff is really important in biocking

(24:04):
community. And I assume you whenthe time the test you have, you
you record some in some ways,so if any parameters, so so to
understand what is working for you.But for instance, you use HRV or
what kind of parameters you are tracking? My my co parameters, but on

(24:26):
tracking is strength increase And interestingly itwould would relate to HRV, but general
sense of well being uh and energylevels because for me, what I can

(24:47):
find is that I can get excitedand want to push the envelope on intensity
or want to push the envelope onfreequent. See. The first warning sign
to me is a sort of generalsense of fatigue that creeps up slowly and

(25:10):
before you know it, it's kindof got to you. And and and
I don't currently track HRV, butI have done in the past, and
I found that very useful sort ofbe calibrating m HM, where and when
to look out for the warning signsand what the physiologic warning signs are that
HRV points to. But then tobecome better at needing the metric necessary because

(25:37):
you can associate with this the sensations, the feelings that are happening in your
body, in your in your nervoussystem that the HRV has pointed you toward.
You Okay, so yeah, thefirst thing I noticed if I'm doing
too much is that you know,I mean, so, what example would

(26:00):
be I found that if I traintoo late in the day. I can't
go to a high intensity training resistancetoo late that I can't sleep. So
I can't sleep till like three inthe morning. If I train at three
in the afternoon, I'll struggle tobe asleep by three in the morning.
If I train by eleven am,I'm fine. I all asleep by ten

(26:23):
thirty at night. And it's thesetype of things that you collect, and
that may not be the same foreverybody, Like I may, I may
releasemare epiniferin and a hormonal cascade inresponse the next person might, but yeah,
it leads. So I have toadapt to these things. And I've

(26:45):
only learned these things through experience andthen and then yeah, sort of like
the other thing I'm very aware ofis if I have this sense of not
necessarily mental but a physical fatigue,it starts very slowly if I'm pushing the
envelope too much, and I canignore it and push through it for a

(27:07):
week, maybe two weeks, butit catches up with me. And then
it also makes me more susceptible tolike colds and flues that my kids might
be bringing home from school and soon, And it's catching it before then
and not getting not getting into thismindset of like I'm just going to keep
plowing ahead, and like as ayoung man, that was always my philosophy.
It was like, yeah, Ikeep hammering it out of the part.

(27:30):
And in some ways that kind ofattitude when I first started training would
have been on the emphasis of volumeand frequency, like going to the gym
every day, five days a weekand doing four sets per exercise and ten
fifteen exercises per workout, and that'swhere that energy was put. That gets
can get translated for some people whenthey find out about HIT and they chase

(27:52):
the intensity envelope even too far sometimesso like you know, Bell really hammer
muscular failure. But I want togo, well, now I'll go into
a long isometric level of fatigue,which is deeper than than I don't want
to get too technical. I'm notsure how much your audience will noble ingo,

(28:15):
but it's a deeper level of fatiguethe normal muscular failure. And then
I've have periods when I've gone andI've done this, I've been guilty is
and I'm going to add eccentric overloadand I'm going to fatigue mustly centrically as
well, and like you can diga hole, but it's too deep for
yourself to get out of. Sothis mindset, and I know I'm very

(28:36):
have been very guilty of it,of like issuing something and being determined to
like pursue it to the end canbecome a bit of an undo. I
think what you talked about with age. You know, if you're looking for
the metrics and you're seeing this,hopefully you accumulate some wisdom and you begin
to know, Okay, where doI all looking out for? But to

(29:00):
cut I've given you a very longanswer to a very simple question. When
it comes to strength training, ifyou're keeping your technique on the exercises tight
and good and proper, and you'renot cheating a little bit differently than you
did last week, strength increases arethe best thing to look at to know

(29:22):
if a program is working for you. In Black mor if your performance is
the same quality on today's workout asit was last will workout, and you've
increased a rep two reps, oryou've increased ten seconds longer time under load
or ten seconds longer than the exercise, or you've increased the load fractionally,

(29:45):
you've got a similar you are improving, your theology has recovered, responded,
and is able to produce a responsethat we're looking for. John, the
moment you start to see repeated adeterioration in strength gains and not one workout,

(30:11):
because I'm sure you would know,like if you have one workout can
be a little bit off for anumber of reasons. You haven't slept as
well, your nutrition has not beenquite as on point, work stresses have
been greater. It's possible. It'spossible to have a one off bad workout,
and so we shouldn't be too granularwhen looking at this. What I

(30:33):
like to do is look over thecourse of a month. Over the course
of the month in general, hasmy strength increased. If it has,
the workouts are doing bad job.If over the course of the month,
I've staggated or even slightly dipped,now I need to address something. YEA
fully aligning a line. Yeah,and that is very As you mentioned correctly,

(30:57):
this is something that's works for you, and I think I'm aligned with
that. Because others are studying thehormonal balance and the cycle of hormones during
the day. I read somewhere thatif the strength training the best is in
the afternoon because your muscles are wormedout, and there are any other things

(31:21):
in terms of hormonal stuff. Butagain, if you train in the afternoon
and very very hard and very highintensity and the other side, you're positively
try to be impacting on the sleep, which again again the tracking and having
a personalized approach is the right rightthings to do in this case. Yeah,

(31:42):
And I think being being aware ofof your circadian river and how that
works best for you, and keepinga consistency in terms of what time you
go to bed, what time youget up in the morning, what time
you eat. Having that consistency andthen consistency what time you train if possible,

(32:07):
for your lifestyle, with your lifestyleand and whatever activities physical or or
maation wise you do. It's likefiguring out. And I always say consistency
is key to so many of thesethings, and establishing a pattern that the
body a works best in or optimallyin for you. Well, okay,

(32:36):
let's let's go now and do itsome specific or the fitness and work out
and something I listened to something becauseI ask as well, I think at
about the sweat is because this ismaybe your experience is we can go quickly
over these questions because A very it'sbased on personal experience, uh, and

(33:00):
some misconceptions and questions that people areraising when talking about high intensity and particular
if if from the body by scienceprotocol, the basic Big five or any
other let's see, okay, youdo this twenty minutes, knows what and
then you go, oh, yougo and then next week, So it

(33:23):
is a this is I think there'sthe same impact Mike Mansell had on you
well at that time that you werereading this new type of planning. So
in your experience, is this real? Is something that you are seeing for

(33:44):
your client before now in your yourself? So is the question I haven't quite
got the question. Is it issweating? Yes, this is one along
along those looks. Yeah, sosweating is very necessary if your body is

(34:04):
overheating. Absolutely, if you're inan environment where your body needs to frectate
and you you better sweat, thatis not necessarily then an optimal environment for

(34:24):
training your muscles, because you've gotthis other thing your body has to do.
In addition two target muscle motor unitsand the team or activate them.
Now, your body's also got tokeep itself cool. Enough to be able

(34:45):
to do that, Whereas if youadapt the temperature of the environment so you
don't need to produce sweat and yourbody only has to focus on recruiting and
activating muscle fibers motor units, thenmade the job a little bit easier of

(35:08):
a body in terms of it doesn'thave to marshal some resources to keeping you
cool enough at the same time.So, yes, there was this sort
of like old school attitude of lightyou've got to sweat it out, You've
got to sweat. And I supposea little bit of that also comes in
from sort of making weight for boxingor mixed martial arts, where you know,

(35:31):
sweating is used to reduce body weighttemporarily to make weight for a division.
But that's not a particularly healthy thingto be doing. And of course,
if you're outside, if you're somebodywho runs, or you do an
outdoor activity in an environment where it'swarm enough, or you're wearing clothing and

(35:58):
you're working hard enough that you needto what you must sweat. You need
to sweat to be able to continuesurviving. But in the environment of strength
training, specifically for adaptations of themuscular system and all the down chain and
upchain changes or physiologic enhancements. Thatmakes there's no desire or need or reason

(36:27):
to sweat if you're in an environmentwhere your body doesn't need to do that.
Yeah, that's great. Great,I think designing as well. What
I think Dog mccaff has said sobecause there is this misconception and maybe it's
coming from boxing. Yeah, isit if you're not sweating that you are

(36:49):
not having results, which is nosense because again is this at all?
The body has to relate temperature.So so if you're simply I used to
run a five k in Dubai andI was wetting with without moving, and
so I don't think I was excising, but yeah, it's completely different.

(37:10):
Yeah. Good. The point andanother point is how in the particular when
training high intensity the importance of breathing. Because there are many many training or
personal training classical courses you can breathbreathing some way, consenting, actenting,

(37:32):
different faces. So how is importantthe breeding and in particular when we're working
out in high intensity, we wantto always be providing oxygen for the system

(37:54):
to be able to perform optimally.First and foremost, so reduced seeing oxygen
supplies is not a good thing todo. And the moment I suppose in
strength training where you'll often see itis somebody holds their breath to assist them

(38:15):
in lifting a very heavy load.And it's a technique for sort of powerlifters
and Olympic lifters will use because whatthat does is you're closing the glottis,
you're shutting off this area and you'recreating a sort of an effective brace through

(38:36):
the body to push through to liftthat you load. What that does mean
but it's not so much for targetedmuscles that are working harder. It's just
you're creating an environment where you canalmost mechanically lift more because you've created this

(38:58):
brace of holding the breath or holdingthe breath creates which you know you would
need potentially to do in if you'relifting weights for a sport. But if
you're lifting weights for the goal ofhaving optimally strong muscle tissue and tendons and

(39:23):
so on, it's not adding anything. In fact, it's potentially taking something
away because when you're creating this brace, you can be offloading the load from
the targeted muscles. Now, froma health perspective, the other issue with
holding your breath during resistance training orstrength training, is that in the moment

(39:44):
you do that, you're increasing yourblood pressure. You're spiking your blood pressure,
and so what what can happen isyou start to burst blood vessels or
particularly in the eyes. That canbe problematic. You're putting strain on the
entire system that doesn't need to bethere. Again, if you're training for

(40:08):
the benefit of your body exclusively asopposed to wanting to be able to say
I lifted one hundred and fifty kilogramsin this left in terms of that's okay.
Again, Another thing during exercise isexercise order. So the order,

(40:29):
the sequence, and so you youmentioned that you you switched different different types
and reps number, that's go,et cetera. But in terms of what
is physiologically important the impact on metabolicstress of this stuff, So how the

(40:50):
exercise order is important and and what'syour your approach in general just when exercise.
So I currently I'm not particularly concernedwith that. So that sort of

(41:14):
global metabolic conditioning, which was aconcept that I first came across, I
believe in in Doug McGuff and JohnLittle's book Body by Science, which is
a great book. Is you're bydoing sort of these big exercises close together
and and stay starting with the exercisein which for most musculature is engaged,

(41:37):
followed by the exercise next, butthe next most amount of muscultars in and
so on is effectively keeping and takingminimal respirats, keeping the heart rate high,
is providing this rather large metabolic stress. So it's it's a to be

(42:00):
a form of conditioning. It's creatinga form of conditioning. Now, I
would say doing that could probably beuseful if you're particularly useful if you're involved
in a sport or an activity whichwould have a similar type of metabolic requirement,

(42:22):
so like maybe wrestling or Brazilian jiujitsu or something like that, where
you're using a lot of muscular strengthand once you're like, you know,
two minutes on the mat and strugglingwith somebody and your breathing's going, it's
a very that's quite a similar typeof has quite a similar impact on metabolism

(42:47):
as this this thing. But froma a sort of a specifically sort of
health perspective, i'd say that it'snot needed to be done if you care

(43:07):
about having that specific condition to beable to do a lot of work close
together big muscle, then it is. It is definitely useful. But I
suppose what I'm focused more on inmy owraining at the moment would be quality
of the muscular contractions that any musclegroup is having at this point in time.

(43:31):
And I'm not really looking to pushthat energy of being that hear heart
rate all the way through the workoutbecause at a muscular level, at a
cellular level within the muscles, that'snot making much of a difference. You're
effectively conditioning yourself being able to dothat, and that comes down again that

(43:54):
sort of moves towards that whole sportsconditioning argument of its like, if you're
involved in an activity or a sportthat you want to be good at,
you have to perform that to notonly get your nervous system your coordination required
for that, but also for specificmetabolic challenge. But activity requires of you.

(44:21):
Now in my strength training currently,I'm not looking for a specific sort
of metabolic adaptation other than what's happeningin the muscles as big as all of
the motor units are being used,pooled and used. So I think that's
a that's a person that's one ofthose things that it's a personal choice.

(44:42):
And I've been through periods of timeduring my training process where I really really
enjoy that high metabolic challenge of likesay a Big five, back to back,
no rest between the exercises, bangbang bang bang. Two. The
more you really feel that you're breathinglike a train, you know, you
might need to lie down immediately afterthe last exercise, or or even halfway

(45:04):
through have a have a have aquick pause. Considering enjoyable and challenging way
train. Uh, but it's asort of it's another tool in the toolbox.
It's but I would say it's notessential to train in that manner to
get the results in the strengthening andwhat's happening at a cllular level with within

(45:30):
the muscle tissue. Yeah, perfect, I agree, agree, And I
personally I will alternate variety. Ialternate, so maybe once every two weeks,
I don't know. I I increasedthis factor and so having back to
back exercise and or even even inducingmy box yeah, even when climbing steps,

(45:55):
so when I go to the office, I tried to do with the
boxers state. But I think thisis this is part of the Seine ins
factor for the body overall side anyany workouts or exercise. The other thing
where order is really important is whatare you looking to do? What are

(46:17):
you looking to do with that order? So in high intensity training, tradition
has been an approach called pre exhaustwhere you're exhausting a muscle group in want
in exercise number one, and thatmuscle group is going to be used again
exercise two, and so you're you'redeliberately pre exhausting it before you get to

(46:44):
the next exercise. And that canbe a technique that you want to use
for for a period of time.And so there are all sorts of different
reasons for the order, and Ithink so long as you can make a
case for why you're doing that orderh and again, foremost with that order
is is safe. So for example, I wouldn't do like a med X

(47:10):
isolation lumber exercise and then go intoa stiff leg deadlift straight after it.
See So, but so long asthat's about safety point. But so long
as you can make a case forwhy you're positioning that order and you have
a purpose behind that, almost anyorder can work. So for example,

(47:32):
you know there's the thing of likealways training the biggest muscle group first,
which which makes sense in many waysbecause it requires the most energy with a
leg press. Some people do thatand they feel too fatigued to engage in
the rest of the workout. Solet's let's let's an another another topic,

(47:52):
name or misconceptional. What what doesfunctional exercise mean for you? This is
the same question I asked them,so I could have understand that your approach
your because nowwadays, functional is everyway in every every everywhere, so everywhere

(48:12):
there's financial, coffee, functional everything. So yeah, for me, the
raw essence of that member way Iuse it and interpret it is something that
endows you to function better outside thegym. So to me, what we

(48:40):
do with high intensity training is veryfunctional training. Training in this focused,
contained, highly efficient and effective approachto st length of training, minimizing maximizing

(49:04):
safety, and minimizing risk of injury. You are making yourself, in a
physiologic sense, more functional for everythingyou then engage with outside of BIM.
That's functional training. Now we've gota course with Bill unfunctional training. We're

(49:31):
building someone who are you just mentionedYou've already spoken to, and I would
say he may get a little bitmore specific than I just have and say,
well, it would include things likethe ability to stabilize your joints lust
you're performing the typical strengthening exercise wedo in high intensity training, So the

(49:58):
sort of fairly simple movement patterns thatwe tend to use in highsty training,
the actual means or answering functionality orfunctionability means being able to hold the joint
stable in a safe position throughout thoseexposes I know, BILL would all include

(50:24):
integated movement, so where you're performingwhole body movements, which in pure high
intensity training we tend not to do. And that's where you're using the whole
body as a unit and you're acquiringthe skill to do so safely. Now

(50:45):
that I would say, no needto do that type training unless you'd like
the challenge of it, you desireto do that. Will it have a
direct enhancement Anything you do outside ofthe gym is questionable. But what I

(51:08):
would say that's great about it isoutside intensity training. I like to move
my If you enjoy performing movement patternsthat are skills, I think it's it
can be a very valid thing todo, even though it falls outside the
traditional cannon of high intensity training.And then I know, the other thing

(51:32):
Bill would focus on, and hedoes so in the course that we have
on hit Uni is stretching to enhanceany deficits that you have in sort of
range of motion and strength. Stretchingcan certainly be really useful. You know,
there's the often repeated phrase and highintensity of training that you sort of

(51:57):
you don't need to stretch because you'retaking your societies for a full range of
ocean. Well that that's true ifyou're using sort of the best equipment and
you are capable of moving pain freethrough that full range of motion. But
if you're using body weight or usingfree weights, that's not usually possible to

(52:23):
train a muscle group or a jointthrough its full range of motion. So
if you have a deficiency around ajoint in flexibility you're around a joint,
then it can be useful to addstretching to a routine. And i've stretching

(52:45):
is one of those things that canget abused and over used, which which
then becomes an issue because if youcreate a joint that can go beyond its
normal range of motion become high mobile, you're setting yourself up for a greater
risk of injury. But anyway,if you have a muscle group that's tight,

(53:15):
meaning you're not able to get afull range of motion around a joint,
stretching at least over his short termcan be really a really useful addition
to your strength training. And thenpeople say, oh, well, when
would you do it? And there'ssort of like old school of ice about
sort of warming up and stretching beforeyour strength out, which we know today

(53:36):
you should definitely not do because evenfairly moderate stretching prior to a strength workout
means you are not as strong whenit come to your actual strength strengthening exercises,
So you don't want to put yourselfin a place where you're weaker prior
to strengthening. Also, your musclesare likely to be less elastic you're you're

(54:00):
tends less like to be less elasticbecause you're not sort of fully wanted.
So if you're combining strength training flexibility, the best with with with stretching separating,
the best place to do it isafter your strength workout, when the
muscles are and tendons and joints arewarmed up to novir fluid flowing. That's

(54:24):
when you're going to get the greatestadvantage from doing any stretching. I agree,
and to say, would if youif you're going to sprint, don't
do prolonged stretching before and sprint.You're not going to be able to produce
as much force for through the musclesthat you need to be able to sprint

(54:44):
optimally. If if that's something youdo, do so, yeah to me.
Proper high intensity train pure high intensitytraining. Strength strength training is functional
exercise. And there are some tweets, but yes, I agree it's sort
of funk gets gets thrown out thereas a sort of natural term. That
can mean crawling on the ground orthrowing kettlebells around, and it can mean

(55:07):
all sort of standing on a balanceboard and doing all sorts of things.
And sometimes I would say, ifyou want to improve your balance, do
it for the b thing that youspecifically want to improve your balance for.
Like, if you want to improveyour balance for surfing, probably don't stand

(55:28):
on a wobble board it. Getout and surf, you know, mimic
or match exactly the conditions in whichyou need that balance. Yeah, yeah,
perfect, full lie. Yeah.Among the things I believe in the
past is a CrossFit as well.I've done. I have some problems,

(55:52):
and then when I was laughing laughingthe first time I did the farmer's walk
because at the first time paying meto do this. So I'm carrying ways
around. I'm carrying groceries, sowhy do I have to carry something?
Yeah, the concepts are behind,there is something. But yeah, as

(56:15):
you mentioned, keep skill and specificfunctional training separate. But stretching is a
good point. I try to keepseparate for any any session that there is
some other status saying it in particularway after strength training stretching Maybe I don't

(56:37):
know if I much do that isbehind is reducing the benefits from strength training
in terms of mac adaptation. Butmaybe this is one point. I'm not
sure about that because I think thereare other There are other research studies that
show stretching even between strength training exercisein a workout can enhance the muscular response

(57:07):
for striver strengthening, a hypertrophy response. So maybe I do a form of
CHIGN on a daily basis, whichis sort of gentle dynamic slow stretching movements,

(57:28):
which I do primarily because I justenjoy moving my body in a meditative
way, but I do so forexample, I do that I do it
completely separately from my strength work out. Like I mentioned before, I do
my strength training workout in mid morningsort of eleven thirty twelve GEM at the

(57:50):
latest. Then I'll do that Chigungmovement patter session which I do every day
at around four in the afternoon fivein the afternoon. And it's it's a
way of moving and being one inmy body. I'm not specifically doing it
for any desired adaptation other than thatsense of being in the in the body

(58:16):
at the moment. Perfect. AndI just finished the book Deep Fitness.
It was I think suggested also byby when is basically high intensity resistant training
meeting mindfulness so and and breathing andso how to be mindful during the the

(58:38):
the high intensity training exercises. Itis interesting and it's nothing new. I
think that's super bad. That's that'ssuper important talk about in strength training being
intrinsically focused or extrinsically focused. Soextra innsdically focused is when you're focused on

(59:01):
lifting the most weight and just gettingit from point A to B. And
that's great if you want to demonstratethat strength again, but if you want
quality of coding to the muscles thatyou're targeting, to produce a response.
An intrinsic focus is much better.So it's being aware of the movement that

(59:25):
your nervous system is producing, beingin that, being aware of the muscles
doing their work, being focused onthe sensations in the muscles. So you're
not focused on lifting a load fromA to B as much as you are
focused on the conection or contractions ofthe muscle or muscles that you're targeting.

(59:50):
And that is very akin to ameditative mindset. So it's being no distraction
one with the muscle or muscle groups. You're working, aware of a movement,
aware of a sensations, aware ofthe building up of the sensation of
fatigue as it accumulates during the certaand so on. And I think that's

(01:00:15):
a very very useful way to engagein high intensity strength of training. Yeah,
perfectly. And as I'm also abig fan of meditation separately as well,
So I focus on getting in meditationtwice a day, twenty four minutes
in the morning, twenty four minuteslater on in the day. So this

(01:00:37):
is on top of the gone Yeah, that's separate from what you're going Oh
okay, oh yes, that's quiteYeah. I try to squeeze this sessions,
I use different Binari, DASA,other tools and mobile labs. In
the morning, when I my workout, I used to end with a short

(01:00:58):
meditation. This because I've been testedthe slope of the curve basically is the
design density training. I tried tomove weekly to a relaxed stage. So
I mean as soon as I completemy my work out, I go to
the do editation, so to goto halfa stage. So I'm testing also

(01:01:22):
this and this is quite effective aswell and ultim recovery. And but since
we were talking about the power ofthe mind basically we we naturally move to
the next questions. It was aboutthe external no external load training that that
was something I discovered it Tony andI am. I rolled to the course

(01:01:44):
as well. So because this isa sort of paradox as well, another
one on top of the discuss,So can you please tell us more about
what what's that no external load trainingand excel short and is based on science.
That's just goodous. Yeah. Sono external load training or no load

(01:02:08):
training is where you are not usingweights, you're not even using your body
weight. Two activate muscle fibers withoutthe traditional things we use body weight,
free weights, machines and so on. This the key stimulus what you need

(01:02:36):
to have happen to enhance strength andstimulate hypertrophy in muscles is muscle fiber activation.
So long as you can activate themuscle fibers, you can produce as
the stimuli and response to that stimuli. So what you're doing with no load

(01:03:01):
training, if you take a bicepscurl, for example, is you're following
this movement pattern of that movement atthe elbow joint contracting, shortening the buzztep
muscle. Now do that, youcan move it up in it and fling

(01:03:22):
it up, but you can willfullycontract that muscle up and stop it from
moving up freely by creating a contractionand an opposite contraction in the muscle that
antagonist to that, so the tricepsmuscle. So effectively, what's happening is

(01:03:45):
you're making the triceps muscle do ecentriccontraction to slow or or semi halt the
progress of the concentric contraction of thebiceps. So in that one movement going
up and down hinging at the elbowjoint, you're stimulating both the biceps and

(01:04:12):
the triceps. One's going through aconcentric contraction a shortening whilst the other one's
lengthening and the and then vice versa, so then the other one shortens and
the other side of the of thejoint is lengthening. So you're causing muscle
fiber activation by that using opposing musclegroups. And you can do that for

(01:04:43):
muscles on eyesight of all the jointsin your body. So it's a way
of training if you don't want togo to a gym, if you don't
want to have dumb boughs and chinup bars cluttering your home, or you're
traveling and you're staying in hotels andyou don't want to try to figure out
the machines at a hotel or whateverit is, or you're on a desert

(01:05:05):
island and you don't have anything totrain with. You can still get a
highly effective, very very effective,as effective as any other means, so
long as in the point that youstarted this topic of no load training off
with, so as you can mentallyengage the muscles to do that, and

(01:05:29):
you're aware of doing that, becauseit's very easy to just go through the
motions. If you haven't got aload, you can just go and nothing's
going to happen. You're not doinganything. You're not actuating the higher than
units, you're not firing off thosefibers. There's no mechano transduction, so
nothing is going to there's no stimulus. So you need an awareness of the

(01:05:53):
muscles that produce movement around the jointswhen they contract, when stretch, and
how to use those two opposing muscleson either side of the joint or muscle
groups on either side of the jointeffectively and be fully in that. So
it's a very deep focused mental differentbroke as well. So that's why we've

(01:06:18):
got a course on that on hitUni because it does take some rewiring of
the mind and the nursystem to beable to do. But if you get
it, you can train anywhere withwith literally zero equipment. So yeah,
that's why it's very very mindful thatyou have to it is not working and

(01:06:41):
then you can do it. Eveneven now I can do it and you
realize, so yeah, it's veryit's another toolbox. It's a very pure
form of training the muscles because thereis there's not this load that you're using.
You are literally engaging exclusively. Youknow your muscles, your muscular skeletal

(01:07:04):
system to produce this this this forcewith the masters experiencing exclusively through your own
muscles and so yeah, it solong as you have the correct mindset to
do it, you can get atremendous amount out of it. Ye great,
Christ And as we are moving atthe end of this conversation, we

(01:07:29):
go have another one maybe later inthe future. And uh, but I'm
talking about nutrition dieted supplements. Sowhat are you actually in because we know
that there's another Pandora box and whenwe talk about pre workout or workout protein
intake. So but in your personalexperience, do you have any preference or

(01:07:51):
any effective supplements or routine when whenmentioning the intensity, I'm I would say,
I've seen so many trends come andgo in nutrition for strength training.

(01:08:19):
The most important thing is that you'remeeting your protein requirements, which is which
is very very easy to do.It doesn't require you know, supplementation by
way protein powders and so on.It's very easy to meet your protein requirements.
But that but you need to meetthem and and and then I would

(01:08:41):
say, bottom line, end ofthe day, it comes down to your
personal preferences and what works for you. For me, that essentially means skipping
breakfast. I don't typically eat breakfast. I eat two meals a day usually,
and they consist of protein, carbs, and fats. I'm not outside

(01:09:08):
of meating with protein requirements. Itend to eat what I enjoy. When
I stay enjoy, I mean wholefoods, you know, meat, vegetables,
a carb sort, and fats thatthey get cooked in or added to

(01:09:30):
it. And so long as I'mnot gaining excessive body fat or gaining gaining
much or anybody fat, and I'mnot losing muscle tissue, and I'm enjoying
what we eat, that's key tome. After years of especially at the

(01:09:50):
start of this process, we goback to ninety seven, taking this supplement,
that supplement, all all sorts ofcutting out carbs almost entirely. I

(01:10:12):
never I never was really on thereduced fat thing ever, even though maybe
at the very start of the bodybuildingstrength training process back in nineteen seven ninety
eight, you know, it wasquite trendy to sort of only have lean
sauces of protein like turkey and maybechicken. But in terms of what I
eat now, it's like my favoritemeat is but I picking fished, segak,

(01:10:41):
pork, lamb, green leafy vegetables, sweet potatoes, potatoes, rice,
and then the fats olive oil.My partner's Greek, so we tend
to have a lot of olive oilin our looking and butter, which we

(01:11:03):
use a lot in the UK.I don't micro manage my nutrition. It's
very simple for me to sort ofeffectively fast for sort of sixteen ish hours
and then eat twice lunch and dinnerwithin a sort of eight hour feeding window.

(01:11:24):
And I know there's people out therewho get all sorts of great responses
from going, you know, onehundred percent carnivore or keito, totally vegetarian
or whatever. If it works foryou, great, meet your protein requirements,
eat in a way that you enjoy, Minimize processed food, eliminate minimize

(01:11:45):
processed food, but you should bemetabolically flexible enough to enjoy a treat from
time to time as well. Youknow, That's really where I'm at.
You could almost say it's quite anagnostic approach nowadays. I'm not looking to
micro manage it or go too deepon it. It works for me.

(01:12:06):
I think the reality is in today'sWestern world, at least, the biggest
issue we have is overly processed foods. And if, if, if it
doesn't apply to your audience, becauseI'm sure they're already doing far more than
this already in general. But ifyou can move away from process food towards

(01:12:28):
foods that you know, as Dougmcmuff once said to me, you could,
you could catch on the end ofthe spear or pick off a tree
or pull out of the ground,you're kind of good to go that.
Doing that is moving in a hugelypositive direction. But it's going to make
I would say eighty maybe more ofa difference. And then if you're the

(01:12:50):
kind of person who's fascinated by nutritionand wants to deep die for a bit,
great, I've gone through that atdifferent points in my life. I've
done this up that the supplements,the you know, I was sort of
went for a phase of doing theneutropics and stuff like that. Have fun
experiencing with that stuff. Right rightnow, I'm kind of back to basics

(01:13:11):
kind of guy on that front.Yeah, I think it's the same.
Yeah, I think we have thesame I think it may make mentioned something
like pee diet or something but inshort, is if you if you reduce
a minimum the distance between what youeat and the sun find so you think
that this is far away that thelonger that the process chain is that you're

(01:13:35):
getting far from the source of thelight and energy of the sun. But
if you pick up something from threepots of all food, you're you're you're
good. Yeah, but yeah,this is very good. And so we
are at the end of the callfortuntly, but it went where where our

(01:13:57):
listeners can find you? First thing, and then I remember, I don't
know to die. Complete Beginner's Guideto my Intensity resistim training I think is
still available. You just go throughYeah, sure, yeah, best place
to find me a hit uni dotcom, a t u ni dot com.

(01:14:18):
We've I've got sort of tease youa little bit earlier. We got
some exciting new stuff coming out fairlysoon. We've got all those great courses
you would That's where I write.It's been to been quiet a bit recently
because I've been working behind the sceneson this new course. But that's where
sort of all the stuff that Iput out goes first and foremost. And

(01:14:42):
then yeah, absolutely that document thatyou referred to complete Beginner's Guide to Intensity
strength Training. It was a sortof put together out of three or four
very long form blog posts that Idid, sort of introducing high intensity training

(01:15:04):
from a sort of like beginner's mindsetfrom the ground up. And when I
got to the end of writing thosethose posts, I was like, you
know, this is this is whatI If somebody had given this to me
when I was starting my whole adventureback in ninety six ninety seven into strength
training, it would have been areally really useful tool to have at that

(01:15:27):
time. And so we put ittogether into one one downloadable PDF, which
is yeah, absolutely still available.You're right, I really like the graphics
and they out recommend and I willbost all the instant show notes. I
am again I am full disclaim andI am a client to and I'm also

(01:15:49):
I am an affiliate league as well, So I will I will be posting
all the links and the show notesfor the audience and then you stay I
will stay doing for the new comingsoon training course. So I mean said,
so thank you very much for Simon, and I really enjoy you this
time, and thank again for yourtime. And you're very busy, and

(01:16:11):
uh now we have a shorter timeas well here on the road, so
it's Spins again. I've really reallyenjoyed our conversation man Leo, and it
was It's always fun talking about stuff. Did you like this episode? If
so, simply subscribe comes up andclick on the justification well not to lose

(01:16:33):
any opportunity in the future, andremember sharing a scaring him for the coffee
even better until next time, Seeyou soon.

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